1
00:00:11,657 --> 00:00:14,937
Speaker 1: You're listening to The Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure

2
00:00:14,937 --> 00:00:17,977
Speaker 1: you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or

3
00:00:17,977 --> 00:00:21,297
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, welcome to the

4
00:00:21,417 --> 00:00:26,577
Speaker 1: Buck Sexton Show. On this episode, our friend Michael Malice.

5
00:00:26,857 --> 00:00:30,257
Speaker 1: He is back, He is in action, and he is

6
00:00:30,337 --> 00:00:35,137
Speaker 1: ready to party. The White Pill is his book, which

7
00:00:35,177 --> 00:00:38,737
Speaker 1: I have right here. I was assigned this as homework

8
00:00:38,817 --> 00:00:41,977
Speaker 1: by Michael, and hopefully I'll get a passing grade. I

9
00:00:41,977 --> 00:00:44,537
Speaker 1: did have to read like the latter half of it quickly,

10
00:00:44,577 --> 00:00:47,497
Speaker 1: but I did read it. The White Pill a tale

11
00:00:47,537 --> 00:00:50,377
Speaker 1: of good and evil, and I think there's a lot

12
00:00:50,417 --> 00:00:52,777
Speaker 1: of lessons. There's a lot of great history in this, Michael,

13
00:00:52,777 --> 00:00:55,617
Speaker 1: which I really appreciate. I think one of the areas,

14
00:00:55,617 --> 00:00:58,617
Speaker 1: even for people in this country who think of themselves

15
00:00:58,617 --> 00:01:02,177
Speaker 1: as history bufficer or what have you, the actual history

16
00:01:02,297 --> 00:01:05,737
Speaker 1: of the Soviet Revolution and more broadly, what was really

17
00:01:05,777 --> 00:01:10,457
Speaker 1: going on in the Soviet Union is a massive, massive

18
00:01:10,497 --> 00:01:13,377
Speaker 1: hole in the education of American history, I think, and

19
00:01:13,457 --> 00:01:16,537
Speaker 1: your book, again right here, goes a nice way to

20
00:01:17,097 --> 00:01:21,857
Speaker 1: addressing some of that gap. I think that's also partly

21
00:01:21,857 --> 00:01:25,297
Speaker 1: by design that there's this massive hole, because what we're

22
00:01:25,337 --> 00:01:27,577
Speaker 1: taught in schools, we like to have a nice little

23
00:01:27,657 --> 00:01:29,817
Speaker 1: narrative that there's the good guys and the bad guys,

24
00:01:29,817 --> 00:01:31,617
Speaker 1: and the Founding Fathers were all the good guys, and

25
00:01:31,657 --> 00:01:34,017
Speaker 1: the Brits were the bad guys, and then the North

26
00:01:34,057 --> 00:01:36,097
Speaker 1: were the good guys and the South were the bad guys.

27
00:01:36,137 --> 00:01:38,697
Speaker 1: And then world War Two the Allies where the good

28
00:01:38,697 --> 00:01:40,577
Speaker 1: guys and the Axis were the bad guys. Now it's

29
00:01:40,577 --> 00:01:43,017
Speaker 1: clear that the Axis were the bad guys. But we're

30
00:01:43,257 --> 00:01:46,217
Speaker 1: partners with Stalin, and if you start getting into too

31
00:01:46,337 --> 00:01:48,177
Speaker 1: much of what Stalin did, all of a sudden that

32
00:01:48,217 --> 00:01:51,417
Speaker 1: little good guys bad guys thing falls apart, and I

33
00:01:51,417 --> 00:01:54,057
Speaker 1: think that does an enormous disservice. As a friend of

34
00:01:54,097 --> 00:01:57,537
Speaker 1: mine pointed out, which genocidal ideology should I be more

35
00:01:57,577 --> 00:01:59,777
Speaker 1: worried about the one that lost or the one that won.

36
00:02:00,417 --> 00:02:05,257
Speaker 1: So I think it's important for especially conservatives, who kind

37
00:02:05,297 --> 00:02:09,017
Speaker 1: of often have this incorrect idea that things started getting

38
00:02:09,017 --> 00:02:12,617
Speaker 1: bad twenty years ago, and all these different organizations, whether

39
00:02:12,617 --> 00:02:16,577
Speaker 1: the universities or Hollywood or Washington, were somehow co opted

40
00:02:16,577 --> 00:02:19,617
Speaker 1: by the left. This is not only not new, but

41
00:02:20,057 --> 00:02:22,657
Speaker 1: what had been going on, especially in the thirties. It

42
00:02:22,777 --> 00:02:25,457
Speaker 1: was so much worse, is so much more depraved in

43
00:02:25,497 --> 00:02:28,697
Speaker 1: many ways than what we're facing now that I thought

44
00:02:28,697 --> 00:02:32,057
Speaker 1: it was important to put forward. You know exactly what

45
00:02:32,817 --> 00:02:37,297
Speaker 1: half of the world effectively went through. And it saddens

46
00:02:37,417 --> 00:02:39,617
Speaker 1: me that so many people, and obviously I was born

47
00:02:39,617 --> 00:02:41,857
Speaker 1: in the Civil Union, so many people and what they

48
00:02:41,897 --> 00:02:45,697
Speaker 1: went through is being forgotten when this is a victory

49
00:02:45,737 --> 00:02:48,737
Speaker 1: that happened in the lifetimes of pretty much everyone listening

50
00:02:48,777 --> 00:02:52,977
Speaker 1: to this show. Yes, you could definitely argue the greatest

51
00:02:53,777 --> 00:02:56,937
Speaker 1: in terms of population and number of people, the greatest

52
00:02:57,017 --> 00:03:03,097
Speaker 1: liberation of humanity to freedom from abject tyranny occurred in

53
00:03:03,137 --> 00:03:05,457
Speaker 1: your lifetime and in my lifetime, and it's really not

54
00:03:06,057 --> 00:03:09,017
Speaker 1: thought of in that context. I think, I think nearly enough.

55
00:03:09,017 --> 00:03:11,457
Speaker 1: I don't think people understan and you know, we think

56
00:03:11,657 --> 00:03:13,577
Speaker 1: we have a bit of a cartoonish view. And look,

57
00:03:13,577 --> 00:03:15,497
Speaker 1: I love Rocky for I'm not saying it's not a

58
00:03:15,537 --> 00:03:19,617
Speaker 1: really fun movie. But you know, the Soviets, I think

59
00:03:19,617 --> 00:03:22,817
Speaker 1: in retrospect or thought of almost more as um and

60
00:03:22,857 --> 00:03:27,577
Speaker 1: the whole Soviet system as you know, poor but poor, buffoonish,

61
00:03:27,697 --> 00:03:30,497
Speaker 1: oh fish. You know, we have all these these this

62
00:03:30,617 --> 00:03:33,417
Speaker 1: this notion of the Commissar whether it's in It's in

63
00:03:33,657 --> 00:03:36,097
Speaker 1: um the Hunt for Red October, or you know, any

64
00:03:36,097 --> 00:03:38,617
Speaker 1: of the any of the pop culture, it's always some

65
00:03:38,697 --> 00:03:40,977
Speaker 1: fat Russian guy with a bunch of metals on. There's

66
00:03:41,017 --> 00:03:44,177
Speaker 1: like I'm during going vodka, and it's like these people

67
00:03:44,217 --> 00:03:48,257
Speaker 1: were actually sending women and children and and and everybody

68
00:03:48,657 --> 00:03:53,817
Speaker 1: to effectively extermination camps in Siberia and to mass imprisonment

69
00:03:53,857 --> 00:03:56,377
Speaker 1: and to mass torture, and it's not thought of him

70
00:03:56,417 --> 00:03:58,617
Speaker 1: quite that way. And I think your book explores that.

71
00:03:58,657 --> 00:04:01,297
Speaker 1: I also think it's important for you to continue to

72
00:04:01,337 --> 00:04:03,817
Speaker 1: tell people why is that, Michael, Why why is it

73
00:04:03,857 --> 00:04:07,817
Speaker 1: that the there's always a soft pedaling of the Soviet atrocity. Well,

74
00:04:07,857 --> 00:04:10,017
Speaker 1: I think one of the big reasons, and I'm confident

75
00:04:10,137 --> 00:04:12,497
Speaker 1: that you'd agree, is that so many people in the

76
00:04:12,497 --> 00:04:14,777
Speaker 1: West had had blood on their hands as a consequence.

77
00:04:15,457 --> 00:04:18,057
Speaker 1: Despite what you know political when the New York Times

78
00:04:18,137 --> 00:04:20,697
Speaker 1: might tell you in twenty twenty three, there was never

79
00:04:20,737 --> 00:04:24,537
Speaker 1: a strong Nazi presence in the United States. This is

80
00:04:24,617 --> 00:04:26,377
Speaker 1: not a thing. You had the button, but they were

81
00:04:26,377 --> 00:04:29,537
Speaker 1: basically kind of marginalized in a joke. There was very

82
00:04:29,617 --> 00:04:33,057
Speaker 1: much a very strong not just communist in the sense

83
00:04:33,057 --> 00:04:35,537
Speaker 1: of oh, I believe in communism is an ideal, but

84
00:04:35,857 --> 00:04:40,017
Speaker 1: literally many people answering directly to Stalin and the far

85
00:04:40,097 --> 00:04:42,857
Speaker 1: side of what later became the Iron Curtain, and the

86
00:04:42,977 --> 00:04:46,657
Speaker 1: one time when they were accountable for their actions. The

87
00:04:46,697 --> 00:04:49,257
Speaker 1: fact that you know, we gave someone who's killed millions

88
00:04:49,257 --> 00:04:52,017
Speaker 1: of his own countrymen, got handed the Adam bomb, and

89
00:04:52,097 --> 00:04:54,297
Speaker 1: things like this. The fact that so many of these

90
00:04:54,337 --> 00:04:57,297
Speaker 1: Western outlets are still in power today, are still treated

91
00:04:57,337 --> 00:05:00,617
Speaker 1: with respect today, is I think a major reason why

92
00:05:00,657 --> 00:05:03,097
Speaker 1: this is soft pedaled. There's a great quote in the

93
00:05:03,097 --> 00:05:05,057
Speaker 1: book that I found. You know, we were all told that,

94
00:05:05,537 --> 00:05:07,977
Speaker 1: you know, the night the McCarthyism, you know which hunts,

95
00:05:08,497 --> 00:05:11,097
Speaker 1: and you know a play right, I'm like in her name?

96
00:05:11,137 --> 00:05:13,897
Speaker 1: She was like, But there weren't which is in Salem.

97
00:05:14,177 --> 00:05:18,417
Speaker 1: But there were these communists. These were people actively and

98
00:05:18,537 --> 00:05:23,817
Speaker 1: intentionally members of an organization dedicated to secretly and to

99
00:05:24,057 --> 00:05:27,617
Speaker 1: violent overthrow of the United States government in the service

100
00:05:28,097 --> 00:05:30,457
Speaker 1: of what had been at the time the most evil

101
00:05:30,857 --> 00:05:34,577
Speaker 1: or maybe one of the two most evil governments on earth.

102
00:05:35,057 --> 00:05:38,257
Speaker 1: So it's never framed in that way, and I think

103
00:05:38,297 --> 00:05:41,137
Speaker 1: I did what little I could do to point out

104
00:05:41,177 --> 00:05:45,017
Speaker 1: exactly what it was that was so bad about their views.

105
00:05:45,417 --> 00:05:48,137
Speaker 1: It's not that they're just look, I'm for equality and

106
00:05:48,217 --> 00:05:50,137
Speaker 1: you know, buck, everyone has to have a job and

107
00:05:50,217 --> 00:05:53,417
Speaker 1: we need more housing please, you know, it is so

108
00:05:53,617 --> 00:05:57,257
Speaker 1: removed from that. It is defending people being tortured. It

109
00:05:57,337 --> 00:06:01,457
Speaker 1: is defending children being taught in school to turn their

110
00:06:01,457 --> 00:06:04,377
Speaker 1: parents into the police, even if they their parents have

111
00:06:04,497 --> 00:06:08,337
Speaker 1: retribution and kill them. It is starvation for political purposes.

112
00:06:08,537 --> 00:06:12,177
Speaker 1: It is mass deportation of many people from their ancestral

113
00:06:12,257 --> 00:06:14,817
Speaker 1: lands in order to break them and for the sake

114
00:06:14,817 --> 00:06:17,297
Speaker 1: of the common good, so that they're subservient to the state.

115
00:06:17,777 --> 00:06:21,417
Speaker 1: None of these things are discussed in the West, and frankly,

116
00:06:21,457 --> 00:06:24,217
Speaker 1: I think in many ways it's a failure of conservatism

117
00:06:24,257 --> 00:06:26,697
Speaker 1: where you know, the worst thing that often is said

118
00:06:26,697 --> 00:06:30,457
Speaker 1: about about communism is that it's godless. But it's so

119
00:06:30,737 --> 00:06:34,657
Speaker 1: it's not just godless, it's downright satanic. Yes, no, it

120
00:06:34,697 --> 00:06:37,937
Speaker 1: goes beyond that. There's a there's a sadism. And actually

121
00:06:37,937 --> 00:06:41,297
Speaker 1: that's for anybody. And you there's so many really poignant

122
00:06:41,697 --> 00:06:46,257
Speaker 1: anecdotes in the book about you know, for example, the

123
00:06:46,497 --> 00:06:48,897
Speaker 1: little girl. This is from Michael's book. There's a little

124
00:06:48,897 --> 00:06:52,097
Speaker 1: girl who is outside in a breadline, we always think

125
00:06:52,097 --> 00:06:55,537
Speaker 1: of the Soviet breadlines, and again we have this this

126
00:06:55,737 --> 00:06:58,857
Speaker 1: sort of mentality of its people. You know, they're in

127
00:06:58,857 --> 00:07:01,217
Speaker 1: the babush gun. It's sad, and they're in line there.

128
00:07:01,257 --> 00:07:03,457
Speaker 1: It's like, well, actually, the guy at the front of

129
00:07:03,457 --> 00:07:05,657
Speaker 1: the line sees a girl who's part of the Kulak

130
00:07:05,737 --> 00:07:08,577
Speaker 1: class because they're all online waiting for food, right, and

131
00:07:09,097 --> 00:07:11,137
Speaker 1: hits her with an ife and kicks her in the

132
00:07:11,217 --> 00:07:13,697
Speaker 1: stomach and she dies right there, a little girl who's starving,

133
00:07:13,697 --> 00:07:16,377
Speaker 1: that dies in front of everybody. And his response to this,

134
00:07:16,417 --> 00:07:18,657
Speaker 1: as you write in the book, is you know, well,

135
00:07:18,737 --> 00:07:20,377
Speaker 1: you know, you never know where the class enemies are

136
00:07:20,377 --> 00:07:21,817
Speaker 1: going to come from, right, or there's something you know,

137
00:07:22,217 --> 00:07:25,057
Speaker 1: this is another sign of the weakness of our class enemies.

138
00:07:25,337 --> 00:07:28,817
Speaker 1: There's no humanity, there's no decency, And that's just that.

139
00:07:28,937 --> 00:07:32,417
Speaker 1: That's a a vignette that I think exposes um so

140
00:07:32,497 --> 00:07:35,417
Speaker 1: much more of us. I mean, for example, the Gulag Archipelago,

141
00:07:35,457 --> 00:07:39,417
Speaker 1: which people you know Orwell is amazing and gets a

142
00:07:39,457 --> 00:07:41,497
Speaker 1: lot of credit. Though Orwell was kind of a slowly

143
00:07:41,537 --> 00:07:45,497
Speaker 1: reforming socialist himself, or reforming at all. He was a

144
00:07:45,497 --> 00:07:49,257
Speaker 1: hardcore socialist to the day he died. Well, he went less,

145
00:07:49,697 --> 00:07:53,337
Speaker 1: He went less less socialist. I think, I would argue

146
00:07:53,377 --> 00:07:55,977
Speaker 1: he was starting to see the problems of a socialist system.

147
00:07:57,177 --> 00:07:59,737
Speaker 1: He said explicitly, every word I write is in defense

148
00:07:59,777 --> 00:08:04,297
Speaker 1: of democratic socialism. I don't understand it democratic socialism, right,

149
00:08:04,777 --> 00:08:07,457
Speaker 1: you're gonna tell ye not. Well, I mean, but this

150
00:08:07,497 --> 00:08:08,817
Speaker 1: is no. But this is the game they play all

151
00:08:08,817 --> 00:08:11,417
Speaker 1: the time, like what's it? Dive seen Bernie Sanders and Stalin.

152
00:08:11,497 --> 00:08:15,617
Speaker 1: One is democratic socialism and one is you know, socialism socialism.

153
00:08:15,657 --> 00:08:17,537
Speaker 1: So no, I actually I do think that there's some

154
00:08:18,177 --> 00:08:20,497
Speaker 1: there's some game that maybe it's false, but there's a

155
00:08:20,497 --> 00:08:22,777
Speaker 1: game that's played with the moderation of what the socialist

156
00:08:22,817 --> 00:08:26,497
Speaker 1: intent actually is. And Orwell recognize that a truly empowered

157
00:08:26,537 --> 00:08:29,697
Speaker 1: socialist state now national socialist state. But that would be

158
00:08:29,737 --> 00:08:33,017
Speaker 1: a whole other conversation too, created the horrors that he

159
00:08:33,057 --> 00:08:34,657
Speaker 1: wrote about. Anyway, I didn't want to get into the

160
00:08:35,017 --> 00:08:37,737
Speaker 1: Orwell discussion as much as I just wanted to say,

161
00:08:38,257 --> 00:08:40,497
Speaker 1: souls and Eats in I think is as important an

162
00:08:40,537 --> 00:08:45,817
Speaker 1: author and is probably assigned in school you know one

163
00:08:45,937 --> 00:08:48,577
Speaker 1: percent as often or you know one tenth maybe as often,

164
00:08:49,297 --> 00:08:50,817
Speaker 1: and you know souls and eats in I think in

165
00:08:50,857 --> 00:08:55,497
Speaker 1: the Gulag Archipelago, the thing that really strikes people is

166
00:08:55,537 --> 00:08:59,337
Speaker 1: just how evil people in this system were willing to

167
00:08:59,377 --> 00:09:02,017
Speaker 1: be every day and it was nothing and no one cares.

168
00:09:03,617 --> 00:09:06,617
Speaker 1: It wasn't just they're willing, they're excited. This was their

169
00:09:06,737 --> 00:09:10,777
Speaker 1: channel who however, somebody else that people who are arrested

170
00:09:10,817 --> 00:09:16,177
Speaker 1: for political purposes were told explicitly, you are lower than

171
00:09:16,377 --> 00:09:20,657
Speaker 1: rapists and murderers because they're still people. You're an enemy

172
00:09:20,697 --> 00:09:23,977
Speaker 1: of the people, And it was encouraged, and we see

173
00:09:23,977 --> 00:09:26,017
Speaker 1: this still to this day in North Korea. It is

174
00:09:26,097 --> 00:09:29,577
Speaker 1: you're encouraged to be cruel and vindictive and make them

175
00:09:29,617 --> 00:09:33,257
Speaker 1: suffer because you're the good guys and there's something far

176
00:09:33,337 --> 00:09:37,257
Speaker 1: beneath human. This is something obviously very mirrored in Nazi ideology.

177
00:09:37,617 --> 00:09:43,097
Speaker 1: So it's extremely you know, it's extremely disturbing when you

178
00:09:43,177 --> 00:09:47,497
Speaker 1: look at historically what these systems mean in practice, right,

179
00:09:47,777 --> 00:09:50,177
Speaker 1: because you know, there's this whole idea of what communism

180
00:09:50,217 --> 00:09:53,097
Speaker 1: is great in theory but bad in practice. What everything

181
00:09:53,137 --> 00:09:54,777
Speaker 1: is great in theory, what does that even mean? Like,

182
00:09:55,097 --> 00:09:57,537
Speaker 1: what kind of idea is bad in theory. It is

183
00:09:57,577 --> 00:10:01,337
Speaker 1: practice where you determine whether an idea is good or not.

184
00:10:01,777 --> 00:10:04,737
Speaker 1: And when we saw, over decades, over how many countries,

185
00:10:05,297 --> 00:10:08,537
Speaker 1: what this meant for the average person. You know, children

186
00:10:08,697 --> 00:10:11,657
Speaker 1: chained to cribs because they were handed over by their

187
00:10:11,657 --> 00:10:13,857
Speaker 1: starving parents, who were told the government can raise them

188
00:10:13,897 --> 00:10:16,417
Speaker 1: better than they could, who gave up uncrying because they

189
00:10:16,457 --> 00:10:18,017
Speaker 1: knew no one was going to come to pick pick

190
00:10:18,057 --> 00:10:20,417
Speaker 1: them up. You and I and pretty much everyone listening

191
00:10:20,457 --> 00:10:23,297
Speaker 1: to the show can sit all day long. And if

192
00:10:23,337 --> 00:10:26,737
Speaker 1: we try to, like rack our brains for how sadistic

193
00:10:26,857 --> 00:10:29,017
Speaker 1: we could be, we would never think of half these

194
00:10:29,017 --> 00:10:32,097
Speaker 1: things because our brains aren't wired like this. We're not

195
00:10:32,217 --> 00:10:36,057
Speaker 1: raised in cultures where it's considered appropriate at least yet

196
00:10:36,937 --> 00:10:41,137
Speaker 1: to turn power against the weak and those who we

197
00:10:41,217 --> 00:10:44,897
Speaker 1: don't like and just do just the most vindictive, vicious

198
00:10:44,937 --> 00:10:49,097
Speaker 1: things and pat ourselves in the back for it. I

199
00:10:49,137 --> 00:10:51,777
Speaker 1: want to bring this into our current context a little bit, actually,

200
00:10:51,857 --> 00:10:54,617
Speaker 1: and I make the argument to people, and I can

201
00:10:54,657 --> 00:10:57,457
Speaker 1: tell that it's it's really uncomfortable for them. But you know,

202
00:10:57,497 --> 00:11:00,457
Speaker 1: you and I were in contact a lot during the

203
00:11:00,537 --> 00:11:02,337
Speaker 1: COVID and what was going on in New York and

204
00:11:02,377 --> 00:11:06,457
Speaker 1: the lockdowns, and I try to remind everyone that there

205
00:11:06,657 --> 00:11:09,737
Speaker 1: was to your point about almost a glee, like there

206
00:11:09,777 --> 00:11:13,537
Speaker 1: was a leave that some people took in the extreme

207
00:11:13,777 --> 00:11:16,857
Speaker 1: of it all, and there was a clear joy that

208
00:11:16,897 --> 00:11:19,297
Speaker 1: you would see in the eyes of people, just in

209
00:11:19,337 --> 00:11:22,737
Speaker 1: the eyes who were masked police, for example, walking around

210
00:11:23,217 --> 00:11:25,657
Speaker 1: or telling you why aren't you're close to me? Social

211
00:11:25,697 --> 00:11:28,657
Speaker 1: distancing they took. They took some level of joy and

212
00:11:28,697 --> 00:11:31,377
Speaker 1: treating their fellow human beings as though they were unclean

213
00:11:31,537 --> 00:11:34,777
Speaker 1: one and also that they could lord it over them

214
00:11:34,817 --> 00:11:38,337
Speaker 1: in some way. Yes, and I say to everybody, you know, okay, yeah,

215
00:11:38,377 --> 00:11:41,257
Speaker 1: it wasn't you know, they weren't hurting us off into camps.

216
00:11:41,257 --> 00:11:43,097
Speaker 1: I mean, they started to do something like that in Australia.

217
00:11:43,137 --> 00:11:46,377
Speaker 1: They obviously did do that in China, but it also

218
00:11:46,497 --> 00:11:49,777
Speaker 1: was a virus with a real fatality rate, a real

219
00:11:49,817 --> 00:11:53,737
Speaker 1: fatality rate of you know, point zero two maybe point

220
00:11:53,817 --> 00:11:56,417
Speaker 1: zero zero two, depends on whose numbers now you want

221
00:11:56,417 --> 00:11:59,617
Speaker 1: to believe. Spanish flew had a five percent fatality rate

222
00:11:59,977 --> 00:12:03,897
Speaker 1: in the United States back when nineteen eighteen, nineteen nineteen,

223
00:12:03,937 --> 00:12:08,177
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty. So I feel like if people were willing

224
00:12:08,217 --> 00:12:11,497
Speaker 1: to do that for something that wasn't that extreme, that

225
00:12:11,537 --> 00:12:13,817
Speaker 1: we're actually much closer to falling into a full blown

226
00:12:13,857 --> 00:12:19,377
Speaker 1: totalitarian society in America than anybody had previously realized. One

227
00:12:19,417 --> 00:12:21,497
Speaker 1: of the big delusions I think a lot of people

228
00:12:21,537 --> 00:12:24,457
Speaker 1: have is that America's magic in the sense that these

229
00:12:24,497 --> 00:12:26,937
Speaker 1: things that happened in other countries can't possibly happen here.

230
00:12:27,337 --> 00:12:29,617
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people, especially on the right,

231
00:12:29,897 --> 00:12:32,897
Speaker 1: when they looked at how their fellow countrymen acted during COVID,

232
00:12:33,177 --> 00:12:35,417
Speaker 1: had a big wake up call as to how many

233
00:12:35,417 --> 00:12:39,257
Speaker 1: people really regard liberty as their highest value. And what

234
00:12:39,297 --> 00:12:41,097
Speaker 1: we saw and I learned in my research for The

235
00:12:41,137 --> 00:12:44,057
Speaker 1: White Pill is in East Germany they had an enormous

236
00:12:44,097 --> 00:12:46,817
Speaker 1: the biggest informant network the world I'd ever seen, thanks

237
00:12:46,857 --> 00:12:49,817
Speaker 1: to the Stazi, which was their secret police. And after

238
00:12:49,897 --> 00:12:52,937
Speaker 1: the wall fell and Germany was reunified, just the beautiful,

239
00:12:52,937 --> 00:12:55,697
Speaker 1: beautiful scenes and some of my favorite parts of the book,

240
00:12:56,137 --> 00:12:59,017
Speaker 1: you know, the Stazi archives were opened and a reporter

241
00:12:59,377 --> 00:13:02,257
Speaker 1: spoke to one of these former Stazi recruiters and Buck,

242
00:13:02,297 --> 00:13:05,817
Speaker 1: you and I probably thought, I certainly thought that, Okay,

243
00:13:05,857 --> 00:13:08,657
Speaker 1: here's how it works. They capture me and they're like

244
00:13:08,937 --> 00:13:10,737
Speaker 1: give me five names or else we're going to kill

245
00:13:10,777 --> 00:13:12,817
Speaker 1: your family, And like, Buck, I love you, but if

246
00:13:12,817 --> 00:13:14,537
Speaker 1: I got to drop your name to save my family.

247
00:13:14,537 --> 00:13:16,657
Speaker 1: It's going to happen. And I think this situation would

248
00:13:16,657 --> 00:13:18,617
Speaker 1: be reversed. You'd hold out as much as you could,

249
00:13:18,737 --> 00:13:20,617
Speaker 1: but at a certain point you're like, listen, I'm being

250
00:13:20,657 --> 00:13:23,697
Speaker 1: I can't sleep. You're threatening my children, you're threatening my mom.

251
00:13:23,777 --> 00:13:25,297
Speaker 1: I just got to give your names. I just can

252
00:13:25,297 --> 00:13:27,457
Speaker 1: do anything to get the torture to stop. That's not

253
00:13:27,537 --> 00:13:30,897
Speaker 1: what happened in East Germany. They were people who were

254
00:13:30,897 --> 00:13:33,897
Speaker 1: just bored or lonely, or just wanted someone to talk to,

255
00:13:34,017 --> 00:13:37,257
Speaker 1: or wanted to have the opportunity to feel important for

256
00:13:37,377 --> 00:13:40,137
Speaker 1: once in their lives. So see, we don't have to

257
00:13:40,177 --> 00:13:42,857
Speaker 1: speculate as to what it takes to get people to

258
00:13:42,897 --> 00:13:47,777
Speaker 1: turn into informants and to be amenable to telltalitary and systems.

259
00:13:48,017 --> 00:13:51,377
Speaker 1: We've seen it historically, and we've seen it here during COVID,

260
00:13:51,817 --> 00:13:54,777
Speaker 1: and I would hope people realize that this is far

261
00:13:54,857 --> 00:13:57,857
Speaker 1: more pervasive and far more universal part of the human

262
00:13:57,857 --> 00:14:01,497
Speaker 1: experience than even I would have liked to have believed.

263
00:14:01,817 --> 00:14:05,377
Speaker 1: You know, the there's a Souls and Eats in story

264
00:14:05,657 --> 00:14:08,577
Speaker 1: and I remember where there's a woman who goes into

265
00:14:08,617 --> 00:14:11,777
Speaker 1: the You know, this is obvious in the Soviet era,

266
00:14:12,177 --> 00:14:15,177
Speaker 1: a woman goes into the effect of the local police

267
00:14:15,217 --> 00:14:19,097
Speaker 1: station and says, you know, the constables, and says, because

268
00:14:19,297 --> 00:14:23,217
Speaker 1: her neighbor had been seized another woman at night, never

269
00:14:23,257 --> 00:14:26,257
Speaker 1: to be seen again, seized but left behind an infant,

270
00:14:26,377 --> 00:14:29,137
Speaker 1: like a you know, six month old baby, and and

271
00:14:29,297 --> 00:14:32,897
Speaker 1: she goes the neighbor goes to the police station to say,

272
00:14:33,617 --> 00:14:36,017
Speaker 1: you know, hey, is the mother coming back? If not,

273
00:14:36,577 --> 00:14:39,497
Speaker 1: you know, should I step in and do something here

274
00:14:39,537 --> 00:14:42,457
Speaker 1: to help out with this baby's going to starve to death.

275
00:14:43,097 --> 00:14:47,177
Speaker 1: They arrested the neighbor and when asked when when, when

276
00:14:47,257 --> 00:14:50,257
Speaker 1: asked later on why one of these individuals why they

277
00:14:50,337 --> 00:14:53,657
Speaker 1: arrested the neighbor, the explanation that Souldson heard from you know,

278
00:14:53,697 --> 00:14:57,097
Speaker 1: another bureaucrat, another police officer, was to save them the time.

279
00:14:58,257 --> 00:15:01,337
Speaker 1: That was the attitude. It's like, oh, you're already here.

280
00:15:01,577 --> 00:15:03,577
Speaker 1: We're just gonna grab you, because we're probably gonna have

281
00:15:03,577 --> 00:15:05,377
Speaker 1: to grab you at some point anyway, and you've already

282
00:15:05,377 --> 00:15:07,777
Speaker 1: showed up to the station. So now you also go

283
00:15:07,817 --> 00:15:09,697
Speaker 1: into the cell and you either go to Siberia or

284
00:15:09,697 --> 00:15:11,497
Speaker 1: you just go up against a wall and we execute you.

285
00:15:11,937 --> 00:15:14,657
Speaker 1: Thank you for saving us the time that was the attitude.

286
00:15:15,137 --> 00:15:18,497
Speaker 1: And you know, obviously that's a lethal matter and it's

287
00:15:18,537 --> 00:15:22,417
Speaker 1: particularly depraved. But I really did get the sense, and

288
00:15:22,497 --> 00:15:24,137
Speaker 1: I know people get mad at me when I say this,

289
00:15:24,177 --> 00:15:26,137
Speaker 1: I get the sense that there were a lot of

290
00:15:26,177 --> 00:15:29,137
Speaker 1: people who during COVID in this country not only would

291
00:15:29,177 --> 00:15:34,017
Speaker 1: have complied with, but would have felt here's maybe a

292
00:15:34,017 --> 00:15:36,257
Speaker 1: better way of putting in, Michael, there were people who

293
00:15:36,257 --> 00:15:38,777
Speaker 1: were openly celebrating when other human beings died of a

294
00:15:38,857 --> 00:15:41,617
Speaker 1: virus because they thought that they represented the anti Fauci

295
00:15:41,697 --> 00:15:46,057
Speaker 1: point of view. That was widespread, yes, explicit and constant.

296
00:15:46,057 --> 00:15:47,857
Speaker 1: But look to that point, with that, with that baby.

297
00:15:48,377 --> 00:15:50,777
Speaker 1: The other reason for a rest is this is a

298
00:15:50,817 --> 00:15:54,257
Speaker 1: country where kids are treated well the narrative. So if

299
00:15:54,257 --> 00:15:56,657
Speaker 1: you're pointing on an example where kids are treated poorly,

300
00:15:57,017 --> 00:16:00,697
Speaker 1: you're a provocateur, You're a troublemaker. Come with me. So

301
00:16:00,937 --> 00:16:04,657
Speaker 1: what happens in these systems is pointing out hypocrisies or

302
00:16:04,697 --> 00:16:08,537
Speaker 1: problems with the status quo in and of itself. Labels

303
00:16:08,537 --> 00:16:11,577
Speaker 1: he was a counter revolutionary. So everyone very quickly has

304
00:16:11,617 --> 00:16:13,577
Speaker 1: to learn to keep their heads down and keep their

305
00:16:13,617 --> 00:16:16,097
Speaker 1: mouth shut. And this is something that those of us

306
00:16:16,377 --> 00:16:19,497
Speaker 1: coming from there. It's just very weird to me talking

307
00:16:19,537 --> 00:16:21,977
Speaker 1: to people who've been raised in like complete Americans, because

308
00:16:21,977 --> 00:16:24,137
Speaker 1: a lot of times they'll say things that's just so

309
00:16:24,417 --> 00:16:26,497
Speaker 1: different from how I was raised, and it's just things

310
00:16:26,497 --> 00:16:29,697
Speaker 1: that just kind of I guess, you know you're culturally,

311
00:16:29,737 --> 00:16:32,137
Speaker 1: you're just brought certain ways, like Americans are very big

312
00:16:32,537 --> 00:16:34,577
Speaker 1: on Like I remember I had a group of people

313
00:16:34,577 --> 00:16:36,977
Speaker 1: where everyone's trying to give each other advice and it's

314
00:16:37,057 --> 00:16:39,697
Speaker 1: give a problem at work. Well, the American answer is

315
00:16:39,737 --> 00:16:42,377
Speaker 1: always well, take the person, sit down and talk with them,

316
00:16:42,457 --> 00:16:45,297
Speaker 1: have it out. And for someone from a Soviet background,

317
00:16:45,657 --> 00:16:48,177
Speaker 1: it's like no, no. The first question is, well, what

318
00:16:48,297 --> 00:16:50,457
Speaker 1: power does this person have because they might smile and

319
00:16:50,537 --> 00:16:52,297
Speaker 1: not at the meeting, but then they'll stab you in

320
00:16:52,297 --> 00:16:54,457
Speaker 1: the back later. Are they going to start a file

321
00:16:54,537 --> 00:16:57,337
Speaker 1: on you? This is the kind of psychology that develops

322
00:16:57,337 --> 00:17:00,257
Speaker 1: in these countries, and this is something Americans I think

323
00:17:00,297 --> 00:17:04,577
Speaker 1: are thankfully very naive about about how vindictive and petty

324
00:17:05,017 --> 00:17:08,697
Speaker 1: small bureaucrats often can be. And sadly, I think some

325
00:17:08,857 --> 00:17:11,817
Speaker 1: Americans are starting to learn that the your nature of

326
00:17:11,897 --> 00:17:13,577
Speaker 1: that And a good example of this is when the

327
00:17:13,617 --> 00:17:16,617
Speaker 1: parents were protesting about the stuff being taught to their kids,

328
00:17:16,657 --> 00:17:19,617
Speaker 1: and now the parents were an investigation and being labeled

329
00:17:19,617 --> 00:17:22,137
Speaker 1: as terrorists or being alluded to as terrorists. This is

330
00:17:22,177 --> 00:17:24,217
Speaker 1: the sort of thing that Americans just never think of.

331
00:17:24,417 --> 00:17:27,137
Speaker 1: But it's like, yes, the government will. If the government

332
00:17:27,217 --> 00:17:30,377
Speaker 1: can arrest terrorists very quickly, everyone who they don't like

333
00:17:30,497 --> 00:17:35,817
Speaker 1: becomes a terrorist. Yeah, I'm I'm somebody who you know.

334
00:17:36,057 --> 00:17:38,937
Speaker 1: There were There have been two moments, I think politically

335
00:17:39,097 --> 00:17:43,257
Speaker 1: for me that have really shifted you could say my

336
00:17:43,337 --> 00:17:47,737
Speaker 1: Overton window or my perception of the country and what

337
00:17:47,977 --> 00:17:51,017
Speaker 1: we are, what we are up against. The first one

338
00:17:51,857 --> 00:17:55,177
Speaker 1: was actually Kavanaugh, not even because it's like, oh, my gosh,

339
00:17:55,257 --> 00:17:58,897
Speaker 1: Supreme Court. So much is at stake that the Kamala

340
00:17:58,897 --> 00:18:01,657
Speaker 1: Harris was among them, that the most powerful voices in

341
00:18:01,697 --> 00:18:05,137
Speaker 1: the Democrat Party and the Democrats Senate at the time,

342
00:18:05,817 --> 00:18:11,417
Speaker 1: we're willing to clearly, erroneously and without any basis in

343
00:18:11,497 --> 00:18:14,737
Speaker 1: any fact or any reality, call a man a rapist

344
00:18:14,817 --> 00:18:16,537
Speaker 1: in front of his family in the whole country just

345
00:18:16,617 --> 00:18:19,417
Speaker 1: because they didn't want him to have a job. That

346
00:18:19,577 --> 00:18:21,137
Speaker 1: means they do it to your dad, that means they

347
00:18:21,177 --> 00:18:22,617
Speaker 1: do it to your brother, they do to anybody, and

348
00:18:22,737 --> 00:18:25,137
Speaker 1: feel good about themselves too. It does not matter. It

349
00:18:25,297 --> 00:18:27,937
Speaker 1: did not matter to them. And then with COVID as well,

350
00:18:28,657 --> 00:18:32,897
Speaker 1: the immiseration of millions of people, the deaths of despair

351
00:18:32,977 --> 00:18:35,537
Speaker 1: that occurred as a result, the businesses that were destroyed,

352
00:18:35,657 --> 00:18:37,777
Speaker 1: the livelihoods that were ruled. I mean, we go down

353
00:18:37,817 --> 00:18:40,417
Speaker 1: the whole list. Not only were there people going along

354
00:18:40,457 --> 00:18:41,817
Speaker 1: with all this, and this was the part of it

355
00:18:41,897 --> 00:18:44,777
Speaker 1: that really rocked me as a New Yorker. It's why

356
00:18:44,817 --> 00:18:48,017
Speaker 1: I'm no longer a New Yorker. People thought they were happy.

357
00:18:48,457 --> 00:18:50,937
Speaker 1: They were like, oh, we're great, We're the good people.

358
00:18:51,617 --> 00:18:54,337
Speaker 1: The monsters thought that they were the heroes. Michael. That's

359
00:18:54,377 --> 00:18:57,617
Speaker 1: the problem. But Buck, I'm going to push back a

360
00:18:57,657 --> 00:18:59,617
Speaker 1: little bit, and I don't think you're gonna disagree. The

361
00:18:59,737 --> 00:19:02,337
Speaker 1: Democrats should have patted themselves in the back about kavanaughh

362
00:19:02,457 --> 00:19:05,497
Speaker 1: because none of them have faced any consequences whatsoever for

363
00:19:05,577 --> 00:19:08,497
Speaker 1: what they did, other than fundraising and being regard as

364
00:19:08,657 --> 00:19:11,417
Speaker 1: leaders of a movement. Chuck Grassley, who was either the

365
00:19:11,657 --> 00:19:14,777
Speaker 1: chairman or the ranking member of the Judiciary Committee, has

366
00:19:14,817 --> 00:19:17,977
Speaker 1: sent out press releases. I point out this story all

367
00:19:18,017 --> 00:19:20,337
Speaker 1: the time, how he wrote letters to I think the

368
00:19:20,497 --> 00:19:24,737
Speaker 1: Justice Department and either the FBIRA CIA demanding answers as

369
00:19:24,817 --> 00:19:28,137
Speaker 1: to how Julie Sweatnick, who had no connection whatsoever to Kavanagh,

370
00:19:28,377 --> 00:19:31,457
Speaker 1: who was claiming that multiple gang rape party she attended,

371
00:19:31,497 --> 00:19:35,017
Speaker 1: he was somehow responsible for Avanadi. Her attorney went to jail.

372
00:19:35,017 --> 00:19:37,697
Speaker 1: They couldn't get her on CNN fast enough. Grassley wrote

373
00:19:37,697 --> 00:19:40,417
Speaker 1: a letter being like, what are the consequences for this woman?

374
00:19:40,737 --> 00:19:43,657
Speaker 1: And in his press release he's boasting that his letters

375
00:19:43,697 --> 00:19:45,737
Speaker 1: for a couple of years have now been ignored. So

376
00:19:45,937 --> 00:19:47,937
Speaker 1: when you have one party that is willing to do

377
00:19:48,097 --> 00:19:50,737
Speaker 1: this and the Republican responses, well, I'm going to write

378
00:19:50,737 --> 00:19:53,697
Speaker 1: a sternly worded letter and no one's going to answer me.

379
00:19:53,777 --> 00:19:56,337
Speaker 1: And I'm fighting for you. When you have this asymmetry,

380
00:19:56,697 --> 00:19:59,337
Speaker 1: of course, the incentives are always going to be to

381
00:19:59,457 --> 00:20:03,257
Speaker 1: be as tyrannical as possible, because there's no downside. I

382
00:20:03,817 --> 00:20:06,497
Speaker 1: don't disagree with you, so saw that one coming. But

383
00:20:06,657 --> 00:20:09,337
Speaker 1: let me ask you. We'll take a pause, Michael, because

384
00:20:09,337 --> 00:20:10,697
Speaker 1: I want to put in a word from our sponsor,

385
00:20:10,737 --> 00:20:12,137
Speaker 1: But a question I want to put out there that

386
00:20:12,177 --> 00:20:13,457
Speaker 1: you can think about, and we'll come back to in

387
00:20:13,537 --> 00:20:20,217
Speaker 1: a second. How close in ethos? How close in sentiment?

388
00:20:20,937 --> 00:20:24,297
Speaker 1: Are the most radical elements of the Democrat Party in

389
00:20:24,377 --> 00:20:30,337
Speaker 1: this country, and your average Soviet commissar circa nineteen fifty.

390
00:20:30,657 --> 00:20:32,097
Speaker 1: Just pick a time. Well, I want to come back

391
00:20:32,137 --> 00:20:35,217
Speaker 1: to that in a second Born from a tragedy of

392
00:20:35,297 --> 00:20:37,297
Speaker 1: nine eleven, The Tunnel of the Towers Foundation has been

393
00:20:37,377 --> 00:20:39,817
Speaker 1: honoring America's heroes ever since. Look, it's a really important

394
00:20:39,897 --> 00:20:43,097
Speaker 1: organization that honors fallen and severely injured heroes and their

395
00:20:43,137 --> 00:20:46,137
Speaker 1: families with mortgage free homes. This year alone, hundreds of

396
00:20:46,177 --> 00:20:48,817
Speaker 1: gold Star and fallen first responder families with young children

397
00:20:49,057 --> 00:20:51,817
Speaker 1: and our nation's most severely injured veterans and first responders

398
00:20:51,897 --> 00:20:54,737
Speaker 1: are receiving homes. More than five hundred homeless veterans received

399
00:20:54,777 --> 00:20:57,737
Speaker 1: housing and services last year. More than fifteen hundred receiving

400
00:20:57,777 --> 00:21:00,097
Speaker 1: housing and services this year. Through the Tunnel of the

401
00:21:00,097 --> 00:21:03,057
Speaker 1: Towers nine eleven Institute, the foundation is educating kids in

402
00:21:03,177 --> 00:21:06,857
Speaker 1: kindergarten through twelfth grade about our nation's darkest day. Joined

403
00:21:06,857 --> 00:21:09,417
Speaker 1: Tunnel the Towers on its mission to do good. Please

404
00:21:09,457 --> 00:21:12,297
Speaker 1: help America to never forget its greatest heroes. Join me

405
00:21:12,377 --> 00:21:14,617
Speaker 1: in donating eleven dollars a month The Tunnel the Towers

406
00:21:14,657 --> 00:21:17,057
Speaker 1: at t twot dot org. That's t the number two

407
00:21:17,497 --> 00:21:20,457
Speaker 1: T dot org. All right, Michael, returning to our question,

408
00:21:20,937 --> 00:21:25,177
Speaker 1: how close are the not even the most radical, how

409
00:21:25,257 --> 00:21:29,017
Speaker 1: close are the administrative elements of the Democrat Party in

410
00:21:29,057 --> 00:21:35,217
Speaker 1: this country to the apparatus of the Soviets. I think

411
00:21:35,657 --> 00:21:38,337
Speaker 1: I'm going to duck the question a little bit, but

412
00:21:38,457 --> 00:21:41,657
Speaker 1: give you an answer you'll be happy with. I think

413
00:21:41,697 --> 00:21:44,657
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party and the members of the Democratic Party

414
00:21:44,937 --> 00:21:47,697
Speaker 1: are far more moderate and mainstream than the members of

415
00:21:47,737 --> 00:21:51,217
Speaker 1: the corporate press. I had a poll on my Twitter

416
00:21:51,297 --> 00:21:53,857
Speaker 1: once and I said, if you had these are two

417
00:21:53,937 --> 00:21:56,377
Speaker 1: choices people watching the show an't like. But if you

418
00:21:56,497 --> 00:21:58,937
Speaker 1: had to choose to be the Supreme Court and you

419
00:21:59,017 --> 00:22:02,577
Speaker 1: had the choices, where nine random Democratic Senators or nine

420
00:22:02,657 --> 00:22:05,537
Speaker 1: random members of the New York Times editorial board, which

421
00:22:05,577 --> 00:22:07,017
Speaker 1: would you choose? And I think it was like eighty

422
00:22:07,057 --> 00:22:09,937
Speaker 1: twenty in favor of the Democratic Senate, the New York Times,

423
00:22:10,417 --> 00:22:13,217
Speaker 1: and all these agencies. They're the ones who are making

424
00:22:13,297 --> 00:22:16,137
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party wag. It's not the other way around.

425
00:22:16,257 --> 00:22:18,377
Speaker 1: And I'll give you an example that demonstrates this point.

426
00:22:18,617 --> 00:22:21,817
Speaker 1: Let's suppose I'm a Democratic Party congressman. I hate Trump.

427
00:22:21,937 --> 00:22:24,177
Speaker 1: I think he's the worst. He's praising white nationalist of

428
00:22:24,257 --> 00:22:26,657
Speaker 1: Charles Is, all the others, you know, the whole Rigamar role.

429
00:22:27,257 --> 00:22:29,977
Speaker 1: At the same time, I don't think he committed any

430
00:22:30,057 --> 00:22:32,977
Speaker 1: impeachable offenses. I think he shouldn't be president. He's terrible,

431
00:22:33,137 --> 00:22:36,457
Speaker 1: so and so forth. How could I go in front

432
00:22:36,497 --> 00:22:39,737
Speaker 1: of my constituents as a Democratic congressperson when twenty four

433
00:22:39,857 --> 00:22:42,497
Speaker 1: seven they're hearing Trump Rusher collusion, Ukraine phone call, so

434
00:22:42,617 --> 00:22:45,537
Speaker 1: and so forth and say, guys, he's horrible, the worst

435
00:22:45,577 --> 00:22:47,897
Speaker 1: president ever. But that's not enough for impeachment. I would

436
00:22:47,937 --> 00:22:51,017
Speaker 1: not be in that position. So that demonstrates who has

437
00:22:51,097 --> 00:22:54,377
Speaker 1: the power on the left intellectually in this country. It

438
00:22:54,577 --> 00:22:57,537
Speaker 1: is far more than the media, who is accountable to

439
00:22:57,657 --> 00:23:01,257
Speaker 1: no one as opposed to every day Mitch McConnell, Nancy

440
00:23:01,297 --> 00:23:04,657
Speaker 1: Pelosi and Kevin McCarthy and Chuck Schumer will tell you

441
00:23:04,697 --> 00:23:08,497
Speaker 1: how the other person's terrible. No one is holding the

442
00:23:08,577 --> 00:23:11,497
Speaker 1: New York Times or the Wash to Post accountable other

443
00:23:11,577 --> 00:23:14,777
Speaker 1: than idiots like myself on Twitter. So that to me

444
00:23:15,217 --> 00:23:17,737
Speaker 1: is the far bigger concern. So and as to the

445
00:23:17,977 --> 00:23:22,737
Speaker 1: operatrics in the fifties, they didn't really care. They weren't ideologues.

446
00:23:22,937 --> 00:23:26,537
Speaker 1: It's like I think it's a Upton Sinclair is a

447
00:23:26,577 --> 00:23:28,417
Speaker 1: big character in this book, and there's a quote ascribed

448
00:23:28,457 --> 00:23:32,217
Speaker 1: to him where it's almost impossible to teach a man

449
00:23:32,337 --> 00:23:34,777
Speaker 1: to believe something when his salary depends on him not

450
00:23:34,857 --> 00:23:37,937
Speaker 1: believing it. If I'm in the nineteen fifties and the

451
00:23:38,017 --> 00:23:40,937
Speaker 1: only way I could get food is to parrot Stalinism,

452
00:23:41,257 --> 00:23:43,777
Speaker 1: and if I slip up, that sword's gonna kill me

453
00:23:43,817 --> 00:23:46,417
Speaker 1: in my family, I'll be singing louder than everybody else.

454
00:23:46,657 --> 00:23:48,217
Speaker 1: You don't, and you know those saying goes. You don't

455
00:23:48,217 --> 00:23:50,017
Speaker 1: want to be the first one to stop clapping for Stalin.

456
00:23:50,417 --> 00:23:52,817
Speaker 1: So I think people need to appreciate that a lot

457
00:23:52,857 --> 00:23:56,617
Speaker 1: of times, these these entities in these organizations aren't a

458
00:23:56,697 --> 00:24:00,337
Speaker 1: function literally of ideology so much as people responding to

459
00:24:01,017 --> 00:24:04,137
Speaker 1: very perverse incentives, and often those incentives are a matter

460
00:24:04,177 --> 00:24:06,377
Speaker 1: of life and death for them and their families. I

461
00:24:06,497 --> 00:24:09,297
Speaker 1: also think that there there are things, and you get

462
00:24:09,297 --> 00:24:10,857
Speaker 1: into some of them in book in terms of the

463
00:24:11,217 --> 00:24:16,097
Speaker 1: level of awfulness, the every day awfulness too. It's not bad.

464
00:24:16,137 --> 00:24:18,417
Speaker 1: Things will happen in a lot of countries, but you'll

465
00:24:18,617 --> 00:24:21,177
Speaker 1: remember them as well. That was an awful moment. You

466
00:24:21,217 --> 00:24:23,937
Speaker 1: know that that was something terrible that happened, but it

467
00:24:24,097 --> 00:24:26,257
Speaker 1: was just every day, right, the every day awfulness of

468
00:24:26,537 --> 00:24:29,577
Speaker 1: living under the Soviet regime. But there are also stories

469
00:24:29,577 --> 00:24:32,577
Speaker 1: that I think people they just refuse to believe. And

470
00:24:32,657 --> 00:24:35,417
Speaker 1: I think it's so interesting that in the Death of Stalin,

471
00:24:35,497 --> 00:24:37,737
Speaker 1: which was a pretty well made movie, for what it is,

472
00:24:38,137 --> 00:24:41,217
Speaker 1: that whole sequence, that whole sequence in the beginning where

473
00:24:41,817 --> 00:24:44,977
Speaker 1: Stalin calls in and wants a copy. However they did

474
00:24:45,017 --> 00:24:46,657
Speaker 1: it you know, old school records. I forget what it is,

475
00:24:46,697 --> 00:24:48,897
Speaker 1: but wanted a copy of the of the you know,

476
00:24:49,017 --> 00:24:54,097
Speaker 1: Moscow Orchestra performance, and they had already finished. They did

477
00:24:54,177 --> 00:24:56,657
Speaker 1: wake up the conductor and bring everyone back and do

478
00:24:56,737 --> 00:25:00,017
Speaker 1: a rerecording of it. Like, they brought everybody back, and

479
00:25:00,057 --> 00:25:02,897
Speaker 1: I believe they even tried to bring back members of

480
00:25:02,937 --> 00:25:05,497
Speaker 1: the audience too. So they had a performance at the

481
00:25:05,537 --> 00:25:07,657
Speaker 1: main theater and I think it was Moscow, might have

482
00:25:07,697 --> 00:25:09,577
Speaker 1: been Saint Petersburg, but I think it was Moscow, and

483
00:25:09,617 --> 00:25:11,337
Speaker 1: they actually brought everybody back. And people, look, there's no

484
00:25:11,377 --> 00:25:13,777
Speaker 1: way that actually happened. That actually did happen, because everyone

485
00:25:13,857 --> 00:25:15,297
Speaker 1: was terrified if it didn't do it. He was going

486
00:25:15,377 --> 00:25:16,977
Speaker 1: to have their family killed as well as them, you know,

487
00:25:17,617 --> 00:25:20,537
Speaker 1: all the horrible things you can imagine that was life

488
00:25:20,617 --> 00:25:26,217
Speaker 1: for people. Yeah, it's it's the artists are you know,

489
00:25:26,297 --> 00:25:29,417
Speaker 1: had a particularly tough time because if everything, anything can

490
00:25:29,457 --> 00:25:32,177
Speaker 1: be perceived as in any way not praising the system enough.

491
00:25:32,857 --> 00:25:34,657
Speaker 1: We see that even here with the political pregnics to

492
00:25:34,697 --> 00:25:37,377
Speaker 1: far lesser extent. Obviously people aren't getting murdered. But there's

493
00:25:37,417 --> 00:25:39,097
Speaker 1: this one story. I want to get this exact, the

494
00:25:39,177 --> 00:25:43,897
Speaker 1: exact details. Um uh here of um, there was a

495
00:25:43,977 --> 00:25:48,817
Speaker 1: play that Stalin didn't like, um and basically overnight, you know,

496
00:25:48,937 --> 00:25:53,097
Speaker 1: your career is just ruined. Apple can be sent away.

497
00:25:54,937 --> 00:25:58,817
Speaker 1: Everyone who's ever been associated with you, uh gets I'm

498
00:25:58,817 --> 00:26:02,257
Speaker 1: trying to get the exact I think it. Shostakovich, I

499
00:26:02,297 --> 00:26:06,777
Speaker 1: want to get it exactly here. Yeah, Shostakovich was in

500
00:26:06,857 --> 00:26:08,657
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty six, you know, he had a play called

501
00:26:08,737 --> 00:26:12,537
Speaker 1: Lady the Lady Macbeth MTNSK. There were articles about it

502
00:26:12,617 --> 00:26:15,417
Speaker 1: two days later, and the community stood up for him.

503
00:26:15,417 --> 00:26:18,337
Speaker 1: Because Shostakovich was and remains one of the great composers

504
00:26:18,377 --> 00:26:20,817
Speaker 1: of all time. Stalin just didn't happen to like one.

505
00:26:21,297 --> 00:26:25,457
Speaker 1: As a consequence of this, so the director's wife. He

506
00:26:25,617 --> 00:26:28,217
Speaker 1: stayed with the director's house. Her wife was stabbed to

507
00:26:28,257 --> 00:26:31,777
Speaker 1: death in the eyes when a marshal the Silviet Union.

508
00:26:31,857 --> 00:26:35,697
Speaker 1: This guy's very high up to Tachevski. He was defended Shostakovich.

509
00:26:35,737 --> 00:26:37,937
Speaker 1: He was tortured and shot. His body was sent to

510
00:26:38,137 --> 00:26:42,337
Speaker 1: landfill the librettos of the of the of the performance,

511
00:26:42,617 --> 00:26:45,537
Speaker 1: was arrested and shot. His ex girlfriend vanished, his brother

512
00:26:45,617 --> 00:26:48,017
Speaker 1: in law who was a physicist, his sister, his mother

513
00:26:48,097 --> 00:26:50,537
Speaker 1: in law, and his uncle. They were all arrested just

514
00:26:50,657 --> 00:26:53,777
Speaker 1: because Stalin didn't like this play. So, you know, to

515
00:26:53,937 --> 00:26:56,537
Speaker 1: your point, it's not that people were living in fear

516
00:26:56,617 --> 00:26:58,857
Speaker 1: of like you know, maybe Buck. You had this tweet

517
00:26:58,897 --> 00:27:00,977
Speaker 1: in college and crap, what if someone finds a screen

518
00:27:01,017 --> 00:27:03,817
Speaker 1: shot and it's gonna look bad for my career. You're

519
00:27:03,897 --> 00:27:07,697
Speaker 1: newly married. You, I've met your brothers. If something happens

520
00:27:07,737 --> 00:27:11,097
Speaker 1: to you or if they can't get to you. But

521
00:27:11,217 --> 00:27:13,417
Speaker 1: let's suppose I want to get to Buck. I don't

522
00:27:13,417 --> 00:27:15,897
Speaker 1: need to get to Buck. I've got a circle around you.

523
00:27:16,297 --> 00:27:18,977
Speaker 1: And let me tell you, everyone listening to this can

524
00:27:19,057 --> 00:27:21,257
Speaker 1: imagine themselves being tough, and there's nothing they can do

525
00:27:21,337 --> 00:27:23,177
Speaker 1: to me. You could arrest me. I'm not going to

526
00:27:23,257 --> 00:27:26,417
Speaker 1: break Bring in your wife, bring in your brothers. Put

527
00:27:26,457 --> 00:27:29,337
Speaker 1: them in that cell. See what happens. And this is

528
00:27:29,417 --> 00:27:33,537
Speaker 1: something I think in the West were so correctly proud

529
00:27:33,977 --> 00:27:36,497
Speaker 1: of our respect for the individual and individual rights. It

530
00:27:36,617 --> 00:27:39,817
Speaker 1: never even enters our head that innocent people who are

531
00:27:39,897 --> 00:27:44,137
Speaker 1: simply family members. It's not only automatically that their targets,

532
00:27:44,217 --> 00:27:46,897
Speaker 1: it's the law. It was a crime, a felony to

533
00:27:47,057 --> 00:27:49,857
Speaker 1: be married to an enemy of the people. And if

534
00:27:49,897 --> 00:27:53,177
Speaker 1: you're arrested enemy of the people, it's like you can't

535
00:27:53,217 --> 00:27:55,657
Speaker 1: defend yourself, you know, the spouse can't say, well, I

536
00:27:55,777 --> 00:27:59,377
Speaker 1: wasn't really arrested married to them, And right away what

537
00:27:59,537 --> 00:28:03,137
Speaker 1: happens also is the children become orphans. And there was

538
00:28:03,177 --> 00:28:05,657
Speaker 1: a lot of handwringing in the Kremlin because all these

539
00:28:05,817 --> 00:28:09,337
Speaker 1: kids started killing themselves with good reason because overnight they

540
00:28:09,377 --> 00:28:12,577
Speaker 1: were orphans and no one would associate with them, because

541
00:28:12,657 --> 00:28:14,417
Speaker 1: why are you taking in a child of the enemy

542
00:28:14,417 --> 00:28:18,057
Speaker 1: of the people. So the level of depravity and evil

543
00:28:18,177 --> 00:28:21,697
Speaker 1: in these societies is so much worse than just like, oh,

544
00:28:21,817 --> 00:28:24,417
Speaker 1: someone's this fat guy like you know, some faba food

545
00:28:24,497 --> 00:28:26,657
Speaker 1: on the top, and it's his brother gets a pay

546
00:28:26,737 --> 00:28:28,897
Speaker 1: cut and you're hungry and you have to learn stupid

547
00:28:28,937 --> 00:28:32,697
Speaker 1: things at school. Oh please, Like that is nothing that's

548
00:28:32,777 --> 00:28:36,177
Speaker 1: totally scratching the surface of what's going on in these society. Yeah.

549
00:28:36,217 --> 00:28:39,697
Speaker 1: I think that people also don't spend enough time, or

550
00:28:39,737 --> 00:28:42,977
Speaker 1: we don't. It's not thought of very often how much

551
00:28:43,057 --> 00:28:46,497
Speaker 1: North Korea really tried in many ways, Yes, they're a

552
00:28:46,537 --> 00:28:48,777
Speaker 1: huge very you know, there's people make the case that

553
00:28:49,737 --> 00:28:55,497
Speaker 1: actually a racist Japanese imperial mindset was borrowed by essentially

554
00:28:55,497 --> 00:28:58,617
Speaker 1: an ultra nationalist, ultra racial identity as part of North

555
00:28:58,697 --> 00:29:02,217
Speaker 1: Korean ideology, but also in terms of the machinery of

556
00:29:02,297 --> 00:29:06,577
Speaker 1: North Korea and how the Communist Party or whatever operates

557
00:29:06,617 --> 00:29:09,577
Speaker 1: there is borrowed from the Soviets. I mean very you know,

558
00:29:09,737 --> 00:29:11,937
Speaker 1: even even the fashion choices in a lot of ways,

559
00:29:12,297 --> 00:29:15,577
Speaker 1: say from China too, but guess what the Chinese communists

560
00:29:15,697 --> 00:29:18,897
Speaker 1: bar them from the Soviets now borrow it implanted. You know,

561
00:29:19,017 --> 00:29:21,897
Speaker 1: it was just directly important. In fact, a friend of mine, Peter,

562
00:29:22,617 --> 00:29:24,737
Speaker 1: when he was looking at my photos of North Korea,

563
00:29:25,217 --> 00:29:27,297
Speaker 1: he was just blown away. He goes, this looks like

564
00:29:27,497 --> 00:29:29,537
Speaker 1: where I grew up. But there's Asian people walking around

565
00:29:29,537 --> 00:29:31,457
Speaker 1: like he couldn't wrap his head around it looked identical

566
00:29:31,537 --> 00:29:33,617
Speaker 1: to him. So this is one of the reasons I

567
00:29:33,697 --> 00:29:35,297
Speaker 1: went to North Korea. It's like, all right, this is

568
00:29:35,337 --> 00:29:37,937
Speaker 1: my only chance to see what it was like from

569
00:29:37,937 --> 00:29:41,257
Speaker 1: my family, you know, seventy or eighty years ago. And

570
00:29:41,497 --> 00:29:44,457
Speaker 1: let me assure everyone, it's it's no picnic, to put

571
00:29:44,497 --> 00:29:47,577
Speaker 1: it mildly, although we did have a picnic. Yeah, Well,

572
00:29:47,817 --> 00:29:50,857
Speaker 1: how does a society fall into this stuff? I mean,

573
00:29:50,857 --> 00:29:52,697
Speaker 1: because that's always the you know, we look at the

574
00:29:53,257 --> 00:29:57,057
Speaker 1: understanding the scope of the problem and understanding how awful

575
00:29:57,137 --> 00:29:59,537
Speaker 1: it was, and we're far away from that. And I mean,

576
00:29:59,577 --> 00:30:02,857
Speaker 1: I'm always amazed who I read about you know, what

577
00:30:03,017 --> 00:30:07,577
Speaker 1: is it the Conquest, the Robert Conquest book where he

578
00:30:07,657 --> 00:30:11,857
Speaker 1: talks about the great purge right, and how academics initially,

579
00:30:12,777 --> 00:30:14,337
Speaker 1: you know, in the West, we're saying that, oh, it

580
00:30:14,457 --> 00:30:16,937
Speaker 1: wasn't that bad, and it is actually even worse than

581
00:30:16,937 --> 00:30:20,177
Speaker 1: anybody had had anticipated. But the entirety of Western world

582
00:30:20,217 --> 00:30:24,577
Speaker 1: academia was essentially trying to cover up or or certainly

583
00:30:25,137 --> 00:30:28,657
Speaker 1: vastly diminish what happened there. You know, we don't learn

584
00:30:28,737 --> 00:30:32,897
Speaker 1: these things enough. But also, what is the what is

585
00:30:32,937 --> 00:30:34,617
Speaker 1: the tipping point right, because people are sitting here. I

586
00:30:34,697 --> 00:30:36,857
Speaker 1: was just saying before, I mean COVID. COVID was the

587
00:30:36,897 --> 00:30:38,937
Speaker 1: closest thing I've ever felt like in this country too.

588
00:30:39,097 --> 00:30:41,457
Speaker 1: We may actually be living in a totalitarian state at

589
00:30:41,497 --> 00:30:44,017
Speaker 1: some point. I didn't think it was underway, right, I

590
00:30:44,057 --> 00:30:47,337
Speaker 1: mean sitting at home ordering, you know, watching Netflix, getting

591
00:30:47,417 --> 00:30:50,217
Speaker 1: uber eats. But the mentality that people had was scary.

592
00:30:50,217 --> 00:30:53,297
Speaker 1: I mean people that are people that are masking up

593
00:30:53,337 --> 00:30:56,457
Speaker 1: their three year old and are willing to scream at

594
00:30:56,497 --> 00:30:58,497
Speaker 1: people if they get within you know, ten feet of

595
00:30:58,577 --> 00:31:00,337
Speaker 1: them because they're so scared of them. Like there was

596
00:31:00,377 --> 00:31:03,617
Speaker 1: something dramatically wrong with tens of millions of people in

597
00:31:03,697 --> 00:31:07,897
Speaker 1: this country. I don't think there was something dramatically wrong.

598
00:31:07,977 --> 00:31:11,497
Speaker 1: I think there remains something dramatically wrong that was activated.

599
00:31:11,857 --> 00:31:15,097
Speaker 1: I don't think those people's psychology changed as a consequence

600
00:31:15,137 --> 00:31:18,537
Speaker 1: of COVID going away. I think COVID gave an excuse

601
00:31:18,937 --> 00:31:22,937
Speaker 1: for people who have neurosis or anxiety or other some

602
00:31:23,097 --> 00:31:25,577
Speaker 1: kind of things that are suboptimal mental conditions to have

603
00:31:25,697 --> 00:31:29,577
Speaker 1: a rationalization that's external and an opportunity to act out

604
00:31:29,617 --> 00:31:33,217
Speaker 1: their aggression and hysteria toward others. And to your point

605
00:31:33,257 --> 00:31:36,977
Speaker 1: about the intellectual Theodore Dreiser, who's probably the greatest naturalist

606
00:31:37,017 --> 00:31:39,457
Speaker 1: writer of all time, Like he was discussing what was

607
00:31:39,497 --> 00:31:42,737
Speaker 1: going the Soviet Union, and he just basically concluded, what

608
00:31:43,017 --> 00:31:46,257
Speaker 1: good would freeing those prisoners do? So this was something

609
00:31:46,297 --> 00:31:49,137
Speaker 1: and we see this still today with many people who

610
00:31:49,297 --> 00:31:51,937
Speaker 1: are pro government to such an extent that they have

611
00:31:52,417 --> 00:31:55,337
Speaker 1: this guinea pit of society. It's like, all right, let's

612
00:31:55,377 --> 00:31:58,297
Speaker 1: try this experiment over there. If it doesn't work out,

613
00:31:58,617 --> 00:32:01,897
Speaker 1: at least we'll have the data. And you know rand

614
00:32:01,937 --> 00:32:04,857
Speaker 1: I rand who opens up the book with her testifying

615
00:32:04,857 --> 00:32:07,497
Speaker 1: in front of Congress. She had this great quote. She

616
00:32:07,577 --> 00:32:09,617
Speaker 1: was on Donahue in nineteen seventy nine, and he goes,

617
00:32:09,657 --> 00:32:11,617
Speaker 1: why you so harsh in these people, Like why can't

618
00:32:11,657 --> 00:32:14,857
Speaker 1: you just say that you disagree? And she goes, because

619
00:32:14,937 --> 00:32:19,857
Speaker 1: they don't hesitate to sacrifice whole nations, like they don't.

620
00:32:20,177 --> 00:32:22,617
Speaker 1: I think this is something Americans like don't really get

621
00:32:22,697 --> 00:32:26,417
Speaker 1: the depth of evil. They don't care if literally millions

622
00:32:26,457 --> 00:32:30,737
Speaker 1: of people die or are tortured or starved, because they

623
00:32:30,857 --> 00:32:34,017
Speaker 1: have this idea of how society should run and there's

624
00:32:34,137 --> 00:32:37,817
Speaker 1: nothing that's going to stop them from feeling important and

625
00:32:38,017 --> 00:32:42,857
Speaker 1: having their world you imposed infinitely innocent people, and by definition,

626
00:32:42,897 --> 00:32:45,897
Speaker 1: in their mindset, if you are opposed to their machinations,

627
00:32:46,297 --> 00:32:49,457
Speaker 1: you are no longer innocent, and therefore whatever happens to you,

628
00:32:49,497 --> 00:32:54,617
Speaker 1: it's your fault. You see that reality, You see flashes

629
00:32:54,657 --> 00:32:57,577
Speaker 1: of it with a lot of the climate change stuff.

630
00:32:57,617 --> 00:32:59,617
Speaker 1: Climate change is a religious belief now, I mean, they

631
00:32:59,697 --> 00:33:01,577
Speaker 1: play all these games. You don't believe in climate change,

632
00:33:01,577 --> 00:33:03,297
Speaker 1: You say, well, climate's been changing forever, of course, the

633
00:33:03,377 --> 00:33:07,017
Speaker 1: climate changing. Climate change is a religious belief. And but

634
00:33:07,097 --> 00:33:09,017
Speaker 1: you see it though, because if you start to say, hey,

635
00:33:09,697 --> 00:33:14,017
Speaker 1: you really, if we've radically decarbonized that the there's still

636
00:33:14,057 --> 00:33:16,697
Speaker 1: about a billion people right give or take that are

637
00:33:16,777 --> 00:33:18,817
Speaker 1: in pretty dire poverty globally. It used to be a lot.

638
00:33:18,937 --> 00:33:22,057
Speaker 1: More good news is that, you know, global poverty is

639
00:33:22,177 --> 00:33:24,817
Speaker 1: in the last fifty to the last seventy five years

640
00:33:24,897 --> 00:33:28,137
Speaker 1: down by leaps and bounds, But there's still about a

641
00:33:28,137 --> 00:33:30,657
Speaker 1: billion people. If you do this stuff, and you were

642
00:33:30,657 --> 00:33:33,977
Speaker 1: to actually enforce these rules about CO two, there would

643
00:33:33,977 --> 00:33:35,817
Speaker 1: be a lot of people without enough food to eat.

644
00:33:35,857 --> 00:33:39,977
Speaker 1: A lot of people would not only die of starvation,

645
00:33:40,057 --> 00:33:41,857
Speaker 1: but just a whole lot more people die of the

646
00:33:41,937 --> 00:33:45,937
Speaker 1: malnutrition and the other components of you know, being able

647
00:33:45,977 --> 00:33:49,337
Speaker 1: to live in a prosperous society. Even if you don't

648
00:33:49,457 --> 00:33:52,577
Speaker 1: die necessarily from lack of food, if you don't have

649
00:33:52,817 --> 00:33:57,057
Speaker 1: enough food, your health is dramatically impacted, etc. Michael, they

650
00:33:57,057 --> 00:33:59,257
Speaker 1: don't they don't blink when you there's like, yeah, but

651
00:33:59,337 --> 00:34:02,417
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we're trying to save CO two emissions. Man, Like,

652
00:34:02,457 --> 00:34:04,737
Speaker 1: we're trying to save the world here. And I actually

653
00:34:04,777 --> 00:34:06,617
Speaker 1: think those people are I think they're scary. I think

654
00:34:06,657 --> 00:34:08,897
Speaker 1: they don't realize they're frightening, but they're terrifying in a

655
00:34:08,977 --> 00:34:12,697
Speaker 1: way because there's no mind there. There was this I

656
00:34:12,777 --> 00:34:15,937
Speaker 1: forget which African country, but when the lockdowns were happening,

657
00:34:16,017 --> 00:34:18,737
Speaker 1: there was one country. They're like, if we lock down,

658
00:34:18,777 --> 00:34:21,457
Speaker 1: we die. We don't have fridges, we don't have stores

659
00:34:21,497 --> 00:34:23,857
Speaker 1: of food. We're living hand to mouth. We need to

660
00:34:23,937 --> 00:34:27,217
Speaker 1: go farm and get today's food. And basically it was like, well,

661
00:34:27,257 --> 00:34:30,697
Speaker 1: let the meat cake, so you know what you're speaking of. Again,

662
00:34:31,297 --> 00:34:35,897
Speaker 1: I think it's so much more malevolent than people realize.

663
00:34:35,977 --> 00:34:40,137
Speaker 1: And again, the reason why Americans especially don't realize how

664
00:34:40,217 --> 00:34:44,097
Speaker 1: malevolent it is is that there's an entire information superstructure

665
00:34:44,577 --> 00:34:48,537
Speaker 1: designed in place to teach us since kindergarten that people

666
00:34:48,577 --> 00:34:51,177
Speaker 1: are basically good, and that when people in power do

667
00:34:51,297 --> 00:34:54,537
Speaker 1: bad things, maybe there's like some bad, corrupt CEO or

668
00:34:54,617 --> 00:34:57,497
Speaker 1: some mayor who's on the take, and Aaron Brockovich is

669
00:34:57,497 --> 00:34:58,937
Speaker 1: going to come in and put him in his place.

670
00:34:59,337 --> 00:35:02,217
Speaker 1: But for the most part, everyone sure makes mistakes, but

671
00:35:02,417 --> 00:35:05,137
Speaker 1: no one is inherently evil. And if you think that

672
00:35:05,217 --> 00:35:08,337
Speaker 1: they are, you're a deranged conspiracy theorist. And when you

673
00:35:08,497 --> 00:35:13,217
Speaker 1: have this as your basics for evaluating politics and people

674
00:35:13,297 --> 00:35:15,617
Speaker 1: in power and governments and so on and so forth,

675
00:35:15,977 --> 00:35:21,017
Speaker 1: it's almost impossible to realize how little those in places

676
00:35:21,097 --> 00:35:24,137
Speaker 1: like this value human life. And if the choice is

677
00:35:24,177 --> 00:35:29,057
Speaker 1: between their position and thousands of people suffering, you know, horrors,

678
00:35:29,497 --> 00:35:31,457
Speaker 1: it's it's almost a joke to them. It's like, well,

679
00:35:31,497 --> 00:35:33,657
Speaker 1: what's the catch, you know what I mean? They don't.

680
00:35:33,897 --> 00:35:36,737
Speaker 1: They don't. If anything, they feel powerful that they can

681
00:35:36,817 --> 00:35:40,537
Speaker 1: wave their hand and have so many people kiss the ring. Well,

682
00:35:40,617 --> 00:35:42,817
Speaker 1: this is I mean again. Another another area that I

683
00:35:42,857 --> 00:35:50,977
Speaker 1: think illustrates this really well is the very obvious positioning

684
00:35:51,177 --> 00:35:57,097
Speaker 1: of really well off to very wealthy white liberals on

685
00:35:57,297 --> 00:35:59,337
Speaker 1: things like police and I know, I know you're not

686
00:35:59,377 --> 00:36:03,177
Speaker 1: a big police guy, but on especially females, Yeah, on

687
00:36:03,937 --> 00:36:06,137
Speaker 1: issues of criminal justice. I mean, you know, if we

688
00:36:06,217 --> 00:36:08,337
Speaker 1: if we do have a population that is not supposed

689
00:36:08,337 --> 00:36:10,337
Speaker 1: to be policing itself, which is what we do. Even

690
00:36:10,377 --> 00:36:13,737
Speaker 1: though we do have some you know, people caring the

691
00:36:13,937 --> 00:36:17,497
Speaker 1: notion that you would condemn people living in high violence,

692
00:36:18,937 --> 00:36:22,937
Speaker 1: you know, ninety percent plus minority neighborhoods to living with

693
00:36:23,017 --> 00:36:24,777
Speaker 1: even more violence so that you know, you can go

694
00:36:24,857 --> 00:36:27,537
Speaker 1: to Nancy Pelosi fundraiser and then hang out with a

695
00:36:27,617 --> 00:36:30,417
Speaker 1: bunch of like producers for Netflix shows and have your

696
00:36:30,417 --> 00:36:33,857
Speaker 1: shard neyglasses and feel good about yourself. They do not care.

697
00:36:34,537 --> 00:36:36,497
Speaker 1: Even when I try to explain this to libs who

698
00:36:36,537 --> 00:36:39,177
Speaker 1: are very you know, who think that they're very attuned

699
00:36:39,177 --> 00:36:42,297
Speaker 1: to things. When I tell them that your BLM marches

700
00:36:42,417 --> 00:36:44,777
Speaker 1: and you're you're giving money these organizations and all this

701
00:36:44,897 --> 00:36:48,177
Speaker 1: stuff makes you feel good, there will be more people

702
00:36:48,217 --> 00:36:51,937
Speaker 1: who are dead because of what that position is. They

703
00:36:52,017 --> 00:36:53,777
Speaker 1: do not care. It does not it doesn't affect them

704
00:36:53,817 --> 00:36:55,937
Speaker 1: one look, the whole Democrat party. It doesn't affect them

705
00:36:56,257 --> 00:36:58,097
Speaker 1: until it comes time for elections. Then all of a

706
00:36:58,097 --> 00:37:00,497
Speaker 1: sudden they pretend that they never said these things. I'm

707
00:37:00,577 --> 00:37:02,657
Speaker 1: gonna say something about the police that I'm sure you're

708
00:37:02,657 --> 00:37:05,097
Speaker 1: gonna agree with. My problem with the police is things

709
00:37:05,137 --> 00:37:07,977
Speaker 1: like Kenosha, where not only are they refusing to do

710
00:37:08,097 --> 00:37:10,577
Speaker 1: their jobs, which is in and of itself a problem

711
00:37:10,697 --> 00:37:13,297
Speaker 1: when you know massive unrest is happening and these things

712
00:37:13,337 --> 00:37:16,897
Speaker 1: are being torn down, it's that they were punishing people

713
00:37:17,217 --> 00:37:19,697
Speaker 1: who were trying to do their jobs for them. Kyle

714
00:37:19,817 --> 00:37:23,697
Speaker 1: Rittenhouse when he turned himself in, was pepper sprayed by

715
00:37:23,737 --> 00:37:26,617
Speaker 1: the cops, and then they tried to they put him

716
00:37:26,617 --> 00:37:28,537
Speaker 1: a show trial. If they had their druthers, he'd be

717
00:37:28,617 --> 00:37:30,697
Speaker 1: in jail for life, and even if he got off.

718
00:37:31,057 --> 00:37:32,937
Speaker 1: There's no one who's listeners who can tell me that

719
00:37:33,097 --> 00:37:35,617
Speaker 1: being arrested and having the death sense over your head

720
00:37:35,737 --> 00:37:39,257
Speaker 1: isn't a traumatic experience for literally anybody. So that's my

721
00:37:39,377 --> 00:37:40,897
Speaker 1: issue with the police that I'm sure you're going to

722
00:37:40,977 --> 00:37:44,257
Speaker 1: agree with. That's the problem. No, no, again, I don't

723
00:37:44,257 --> 00:37:45,857
Speaker 1: disagree that either. I actually want to take a moment

724
00:37:45,937 --> 00:37:49,177
Speaker 1: here for capitalism, Mike, if I can the my pillow

725
00:37:49,217 --> 00:37:51,497
Speaker 1: two point zero, which is amazing. I've got them here

726
00:37:51,537 --> 00:37:53,897
Speaker 1: at home, Pat haven't jus will fill of the original

727
00:37:53,977 --> 00:37:56,337
Speaker 1: My Pillow, but now brand new exclusive fabric made with

728
00:37:56,457 --> 00:37:59,297
Speaker 1: temperature regulating thread. The stuff is great. I love it,

729
00:37:59,377 --> 00:38:01,417
Speaker 1: Carrie loves it. We're sleeping rom My Pillow two point

730
00:38:01,497 --> 00:38:04,577
Speaker 1: zeros every night. The softest, smoothest, coolest pillow you'll ever own.

731
00:38:04,897 --> 00:38:06,697
Speaker 1: The My Pillow two point zero comes at a great

732
00:38:06,737 --> 00:38:09,417
Speaker 1: deal right now. Buy one, get one free for a

733
00:38:09,497 --> 00:38:12,017
Speaker 1: limited time when you use promo code buck. That's promo

734
00:38:12,057 --> 00:38:14,297
Speaker 1: code b U c K My Pillow two point o.

735
00:38:14,417 --> 00:38:17,057
Speaker 1: Like I said, temperature regulating thread, one hundred percent made

736
00:38:17,137 --> 00:38:20,057
Speaker 1: here in the USA. My Pillow comes with a ten

737
00:38:20,137 --> 00:38:22,377
Speaker 1: year warranty and a sixty day money back guarantee. So

738
00:38:22,657 --> 00:38:25,737
Speaker 1: go to my pillow dot com click on the radio

739
00:38:25,737 --> 00:38:28,017
Speaker 1: listeners square because there's buy one, get one free off

740
00:38:28,057 --> 00:38:30,177
Speaker 1: from the My Pillow two point h enter promo code buck.

741
00:38:30,217 --> 00:38:32,417
Speaker 1: That's promo code b U c K for the p

742
00:38:32,897 --> 00:38:34,777
Speaker 1: and you know what happens when you get the My Pillow.

743
00:38:34,897 --> 00:38:37,097
Speaker 1: You get a free copy of Michael Lindell's book called

744
00:38:37,177 --> 00:38:40,217
Speaker 1: From Crackhead to Ceo. And it's a lenticular cover and

745
00:38:40,297 --> 00:38:42,777
Speaker 1: it changes from his crackhead face to his like professional,

746
00:38:42,857 --> 00:38:45,297
Speaker 1: smiling ceo face. It's really cool. I have a copy

747
00:38:45,377 --> 00:38:48,057
Speaker 1: of it here. Yeah, oh yeah, it's amazing. Mike is

748
00:38:48,137 --> 00:38:51,737
Speaker 1: Mike is an incredible, an incredible American success story. I mean,

749
00:38:51,777 --> 00:38:54,777
Speaker 1: when you think about I think, you know, you think

750
00:38:54,777 --> 00:38:58,497
Speaker 1: about a crack addiction, which, short of opioiddiction, is probably

751
00:38:58,497 --> 00:39:00,537
Speaker 1: one of the very hardest I think to to be.

752
00:39:00,737 --> 00:39:05,417
Speaker 1: That's because it's so good. They're not using crack because

753
00:39:05,417 --> 00:39:09,017
Speaker 1: they don't like it. I mean, look the opioid receptors

754
00:39:09,057 --> 00:39:12,137
Speaker 1: in the brain. Anybody, there's apparently nothing and this is

755
00:39:12,177 --> 00:39:15,017
Speaker 1: why it's so dangerous, right, there's nothing that feels. And he,

756
00:39:15,137 --> 00:39:17,697
Speaker 1: Mike has been way too I'm talking about Mike Malice,

757
00:39:17,737 --> 00:39:19,777
Speaker 1: by the way, for anybody. Mike Malice has been way

758
00:39:19,857 --> 00:39:22,577
Speaker 1: too well behaved this whole interview. By the way he's been,

759
00:39:22,657 --> 00:39:26,577
Speaker 1: He's had his thinking cap on talking. He hasn't said

760
00:39:26,657 --> 00:39:29,817
Speaker 1: anything yet to just intentionally try to get me in trouble,

761
00:39:29,857 --> 00:39:32,057
Speaker 1: which is one of his favorite games. Because then I

762
00:39:32,177 --> 00:39:33,977
Speaker 1: go because if I don't say that, he says something

763
00:39:33,977 --> 00:39:35,697
Speaker 1: and I go, oh, I keep going, and then I

764
00:39:35,777 --> 00:39:37,657
Speaker 1: get my people who are like, wow, how could you

765
00:39:37,737 --> 00:39:40,897
Speaker 1: let him say that? I'm like, Malice, Fuck, if you

766
00:39:41,017 --> 00:39:45,657
Speaker 1: started smoking crack your dad could become president. Well everything

767
00:39:45,697 --> 00:39:49,377
Speaker 1: about that, hmm. I did not think about that until now.

768
00:39:49,497 --> 00:39:52,577
Speaker 1: That's such an interesting point. Also, Hunter Biden, by the way,

769
00:39:53,297 --> 00:39:56,697
Speaker 1: you'd think, like kind of a spoiled connected kid, crack

770
00:39:56,897 --> 00:40:02,377
Speaker 1: is not usually the option, you know. Yeah, it's such

771
00:40:02,417 --> 00:40:06,777
Speaker 1: a low class, gutter drug and the guy has money

772
00:40:07,577 --> 00:40:10,017
Speaker 1: and he's trashy, but not in the crack of trashy way.

773
00:40:10,097 --> 00:40:12,617
Speaker 1: You would think he'd be a junkie, maybe a cokehead.

774
00:40:13,377 --> 00:40:15,257
Speaker 1: It's it's it's I don't know what's going on in

775
00:40:15,337 --> 00:40:18,817
Speaker 1: that household, but it's very rare, rare that these children

776
00:40:18,857 --> 00:40:22,657
Speaker 1: of privilege are become crackheads. Do you, um, Hunter Biden,

777
00:40:22,697 --> 00:40:24,257
Speaker 1: do you think he's gonna get you know, that's what

778
00:40:24,337 --> 00:40:28,177
Speaker 1: we're talking about here. Do you think he's gonna get prosecuted? No?

779
00:40:28,937 --> 00:40:32,737
Speaker 1: I don't think there's ever consequences for a Democratic Party people.

780
00:40:32,817 --> 00:40:35,537
Speaker 1: It's all the consequences almost never really one direction. And

781
00:40:35,617 --> 00:40:38,537
Speaker 1: I have an on air bet over this. I was like,

782
00:40:38,617 --> 00:40:41,017
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, he already always be one steak dinner,

783
00:40:41,057 --> 00:40:43,537
Speaker 1: and he has doubled down because he said last year

784
00:40:43,657 --> 00:40:46,617
Speaker 1: Hunter Biden's gonna get indicted, I said, Clay that's crazy,

785
00:40:46,817 --> 00:40:48,377
Speaker 1: and we bet a steak on airs. This is all

786
00:40:48,457 --> 00:40:51,297
Speaker 1: very public. Everyone knows I won. Now he wants to

787
00:40:51,337 --> 00:40:53,017
Speaker 1: do a double and I'm like, how many of you?

788
00:40:53,137 --> 00:40:55,497
Speaker 1: How many steaks? I mean, fortunately Clay's got plenty of money,

789
00:40:55,537 --> 00:40:56,937
Speaker 1: but I was like, how many stakes of yours? Am

790
00:40:56,977 --> 00:40:59,457
Speaker 1: I going to take? The one who got put away?

791
00:40:59,937 --> 00:41:03,937
Speaker 1: Two of them? Rob Lagoievich, Rob Lgoevich and Kwamie Kilpatrick.

792
00:41:04,017 --> 00:41:06,457
Speaker 1: I think Kilpatrick was the last name. Roth got went

793
00:41:06,497 --> 00:41:08,897
Speaker 1: to jail and Trump commuted our pardon both of them.

794
00:41:09,417 --> 00:41:12,337
Speaker 1: So not only is he are do the Democrats never

795
00:41:12,377 --> 00:41:14,337
Speaker 1: go to jail? When the Democrats do go to jail,

796
00:41:14,377 --> 00:41:17,017
Speaker 1: the Republicans let them out. You know, you just remind me, actually,

797
00:41:18,737 --> 00:41:20,177
Speaker 1: since I want to, since I want to just start

798
00:41:20,257 --> 00:41:22,417
Speaker 1: getting angry people angry at me and get in trouble. Here,

799
00:41:23,217 --> 00:41:27,057
Speaker 1: what happens in the Republican election, What happens in the primary,

800
00:41:27,177 --> 00:41:29,737
Speaker 1: what happens in the general twenty twenty four? Given where

801
00:41:29,737 --> 00:41:33,417
Speaker 1: things are right now, what do you see happening? Oh?

802
00:41:34,097 --> 00:41:38,417
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be. I'm shocked at to

803
00:41:38,577 --> 00:41:41,377
Speaker 1: what extent Trump is going full bore against the Santis

804
00:41:41,817 --> 00:41:45,297
Speaker 1: this early. I think he only knows how to do offense,

805
00:41:45,337 --> 00:41:47,377
Speaker 1: which is not a bad thing. I'm very much for

806
00:41:47,697 --> 00:41:50,737
Speaker 1: doing offense. I think he is in a lot of

807
00:41:50,817 --> 00:41:55,497
Speaker 1: trouble because it is now there's an excuse for me

808
00:41:55,657 --> 00:41:59,497
Speaker 1: if I'm Facebook, if I'm CNN Fox to be like

809
00:41:59,697 --> 00:42:03,297
Speaker 1: the guy foment an insurrection. I can't give him airtime.

810
00:42:03,857 --> 00:42:05,857
Speaker 1: So this is the first time I think in like

811
00:42:06,097 --> 00:42:09,217
Speaker 1: recent history where there is some kind of corporate explanation

812
00:42:09,617 --> 00:42:12,137
Speaker 1: for not taking a candidate's money, and that is something

813
00:42:12,257 --> 00:42:15,577
Speaker 1: that's a real big handicap. He used Twitter to get

814
00:42:15,657 --> 00:42:18,137
Speaker 1: elected president. For him to leave that money on the

815
00:42:18,257 --> 00:42:22,257
Speaker 1: table to me, I'm not his advisor, obviously seems crazy.

816
00:42:23,417 --> 00:42:28,137
Speaker 1: And I'm also I think that I think people underestimate

817
00:42:28,177 --> 00:42:30,977
Speaker 1: that the biggest issue Trump is facing, in my opinion

818
00:42:31,297 --> 00:42:35,097
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four is the Republican Party establishment, because

819
00:42:35,297 --> 00:42:37,737
Speaker 1: and here's the other thing. If he became president, Mitch

820
00:42:37,857 --> 00:42:40,297
Speaker 1: McConnell would team up with the Democrats in two seconds

821
00:42:40,337 --> 00:42:42,497
Speaker 1: to get him removed from office, and they'd have those

822
00:42:42,537 --> 00:42:47,697
Speaker 1: sixty seven votes quite easily. In my opinion. Wow, interesting,

823
00:42:50,937 --> 00:42:55,217
Speaker 1: ah man, I'm ever even honestly never mind. Twenty sixteen,

824
00:42:55,257 --> 00:42:57,737
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two makes it feel like any prediction can be.

825
00:42:58,697 --> 00:43:01,617
Speaker 1: It's just a seed that Mitch McConnell cares far more

826
00:43:01,617 --> 00:43:04,297
Speaker 1: about his relationship with Chuck Schumer and Joe Biden than

827
00:43:04,377 --> 00:43:09,417
Speaker 1: he does about the people of Kentucky. Yes, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

828
00:43:09,577 --> 00:43:11,977
Speaker 1: now that's that's very true. So you think, but you

829
00:43:12,057 --> 00:43:15,697
Speaker 1: think Trump probably wins a primary against the Santis, No,

830
00:43:16,177 --> 00:43:18,937
Speaker 1: I think. I think they're going to do whatever they

831
00:43:18,977 --> 00:43:22,577
Speaker 1: can to screw him out of the situation, including, if necessary,

832
00:43:22,617 --> 00:43:25,217
Speaker 1: excluding him from the debates. It's not going to be

833
00:43:25,297 --> 00:43:29,177
Speaker 1: like twenty sixteen. And I also think they've been successful

834
00:43:29,617 --> 00:43:32,417
Speaker 1: in making him radioactive enough that it's gonna be very

835
00:43:32,497 --> 00:43:35,817
Speaker 1: hard for him to hire quality people. Because think about it,

836
00:43:35,857 --> 00:43:38,377
Speaker 1: If I've got a good resume, right, why am I

837
00:43:38,537 --> 00:43:41,217
Speaker 1: ruining my life for the sake of this guy who

838
00:43:41,577 --> 00:43:43,617
Speaker 1: wants the campaign's over? If I quit, He's going to

839
00:43:43,697 --> 00:43:46,377
Speaker 1: go on True Central and talk about what an idiot

840
00:43:46,417 --> 00:43:49,377
Speaker 1: I am. So it's gonna be very hard for him

841
00:43:49,417 --> 00:43:51,817
Speaker 1: to get and staffing. I think even his biggest supporters

842
00:43:51,857 --> 00:43:55,097
Speaker 1: admit was a huge issue for him throughout his White House.

843
00:43:55,297 --> 00:43:59,017
Speaker 1: He's the one hiring Fauci and John Bolton and Jared

844
00:43:59,097 --> 00:44:01,857
Speaker 1: Kushner and every other you know rents previous. None of

845
00:44:01,897 --> 00:44:04,577
Speaker 1: these are are particularly maga type people to put up mildly.

846
00:44:04,977 --> 00:44:06,537
Speaker 1: So I think this is going to be a major

847
00:44:06,577 --> 00:44:09,977
Speaker 1: issue him going forward. What's the so you finished the book?

848
00:44:10,337 --> 00:44:13,097
Speaker 1: Back to the White Pill here, and it's this way

849
00:44:13,137 --> 00:44:16,257
Speaker 1: we can bring our discussion to close this time until

850
00:44:16,657 --> 00:44:19,497
Speaker 1: you invite me on the Michael Mallas Show, which has

851
00:44:19,537 --> 00:44:21,657
Speaker 1: not happened. I don't think it's happened since COVID. I'm

852
00:44:21,657 --> 00:44:23,337
Speaker 1: just gonna call you out right now. I don't think

853
00:44:23,337 --> 00:44:26,937
Speaker 1: I've been on well. I try to have likable guests. Wow.

854
00:44:27,177 --> 00:44:29,457
Speaker 1: See that's what he does. I'm just gonna tweet that

855
00:44:29,497 --> 00:44:33,337
Speaker 1: clip out soyod be like, see people will actually see it. Yeah,

856
00:44:34,977 --> 00:44:38,497
Speaker 1: I'll retweet it. So the white Pill you say at

857
00:44:38,537 --> 00:44:42,177
Speaker 1: the end is effectively that while um, it is not

858
00:44:42,377 --> 00:44:45,137
Speaker 1: guaranteed effactly that we have to lose to tyranny, Um,

859
00:44:45,417 --> 00:44:48,697
Speaker 1: we can fight, right, we can keep fighting. So what

860
00:44:48,777 --> 00:44:52,657
Speaker 1: does that look like for us here? There's a lot

861
00:44:52,737 --> 00:44:55,417
Speaker 1: of people in the West and in America who thinks

862
00:44:55,457 --> 00:44:58,977
Speaker 1: America is a rap, that it's doomed, so on and

863
00:44:59,097 --> 00:45:02,337
Speaker 1: so forth. I can't one of my biggest points is

864
00:45:02,417 --> 00:45:05,977
Speaker 1: how do you look at Mitch McConnell and Kamala Harris

865
00:45:06,417 --> 00:45:09,337
Speaker 1: and Joe Biden and John Fetterman and say to yourself,

866
00:45:09,697 --> 00:45:12,697
Speaker 1: I can beat these people. They're too important and smart

867
00:45:12,737 --> 00:45:15,377
Speaker 1: and powerful. When you put in those terms, you realize

868
00:45:15,497 --> 00:45:18,017
Speaker 1: what an absurdity it is. And something that you and

869
00:45:18,097 --> 00:45:22,217
Speaker 1: I completely in lockstep agreement are is that if there's

870
00:45:22,297 --> 00:45:25,577
Speaker 1: any glimmer of hope for a better future for ourselves

871
00:45:25,657 --> 00:45:29,257
Speaker 1: and our families, we have to do whatever we can

872
00:45:29,657 --> 00:45:33,217
Speaker 1: to fight for that future, even if you know we lose.

873
00:45:33,577 --> 00:45:35,217
Speaker 1: At least when you meet your maker, you could be

874
00:45:35,297 --> 00:45:37,177
Speaker 1: like I did the best I could with what I had.

875
00:45:37,617 --> 00:45:41,377
Speaker 1: And there are so many forces, especially in the Republican Party,

876
00:45:41,697 --> 00:45:44,257
Speaker 1: who want you to settle, who want you to compromise,

877
00:45:44,657 --> 00:45:49,497
Speaker 1: who are like guys, grow up, be rational, be realistic.

878
00:45:50,057 --> 00:45:52,177
Speaker 1: None of this is going anywhere. You have to work

879
00:45:52,217 --> 00:45:55,137
Speaker 1: within the system, and this is just always how it's been.

880
00:45:55,577 --> 00:45:58,377
Speaker 1: Those people are the most dangerous ones because they're the

881
00:45:58,457 --> 00:46:00,057
Speaker 1: ones trying to get you to get down on your

882
00:46:00,097 --> 00:46:04,657
Speaker 1: knees voluntarily instead of being forced to. The White Piale

883
00:46:04,777 --> 00:46:07,177
Speaker 1: is the book The Tale of Good and Evil. Michael

884
00:46:07,217 --> 00:46:10,417
Speaker 1: Malice tells a good tale. Good to be with you, sir,

885
00:46:10,577 --> 00:46:12,857
Speaker 1: Thanks for hanging. Oh, it's a pleasure. Buck