1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeart Radio 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: and Adami's Studios. I would like to remember exactly when 3 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: I met Sam Taylor Johnson. Was it at the Tate 4 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety eight when she was awarded the Turner Prize, 5 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: Or the day she entered the River Cafe a beautiful 6 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 1: young woman with her first baby, Angelica in her arms. 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: Was it when she came to see Richard with a 8 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: book of her astonishing photographs. Were we just invited to 9 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: a wild and glamorous party in her home that was 10 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 1: part of, as Sam says, the blur of what London 11 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: was in the late nineties. And when was the last 12 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: time I sat with Sam? Was it in a bar 13 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 1: with the love of her life, Aaron, or recently when 14 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: they missed a flight to Sicily and joined a lunch. 15 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: And how often have I asked where is Sam in London? 16 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: Preparing to director Amy Winehouse, trekking in Nepal, in the 17 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: south of France with Elton, or looking for a school 18 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: in Somerset for her young daughters. The one thing I 19 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: can always know is that wherever she is, whatever she 20 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: is creating, Sam is an extraordinary woman. I love her. 21 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 2: Oh, how do I go into that without tears streaming? 22 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: Well, we go into it with food. We can start 23 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: off with a recipe that you chose, which is. 24 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 2: Risotto with puccini and girols. One kilogram of mixed fresh 25 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:44,199 Speaker 2: puccini and giroles, cleaned and chopped, extra virgin olive oil, 26 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 2: one garlic clove, peeled and finely chopped, one teaspoon of 27 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 2: fresh thyme, one liter of chicken stock, one hundred grams 28 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 2: of unsalted butter, one medium red onion, finely chopped, three 29 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 2: hundred grams of risotto rice, two hundred and fifty milli 30 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 2: liters of extra dryvermooth. Now that's the thing that sends 31 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 2: me running around the house when I'm about ten minutes 32 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: into cooking it, just like, do we have the mooth? 33 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:07,639 Speaker 1: Do we read a recipe twice? 34 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 2: Two hundred grams of parmesan, freshly grated. I actually cooked 35 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 2: this last night. I thought I practiced, just to remind 36 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 2: myself what happened about five minutes in Aaron Aaron's here? 37 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: What did what happened? 38 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 3: The mood do we have? I can't make this without 39 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:24,679 Speaker 3: the mooth? 40 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: I'm going to go. 41 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 2: And everyone was running around trying to find the but 42 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 2: it's what makes it. In a frying pan, heat three 43 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 2: tablespoons of olive oil, Add the mushrooms with the chopped 44 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 2: garlic and thyme, season and fry for a couple of 45 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 2: minutes until any liquid has evaporated. In a saucepan, heat 46 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:44,959 Speaker 2: the butter with the remaining olive oil. Add the chopped onion, 47 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 2: and cook until the onion is soft. Add the rice 48 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 2: and stuff. Now, what's so great about this recipe is 49 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 2: it's really good if you want to have people around 50 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 2: for dinner but not necessarily engage with them the entire time. 51 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: Yes, I cared you you at the latest movie. I'm 52 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: stirring a resulta. 53 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 2: Exactly, I'm stirring a result. But it sort of also 54 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 2: gives you something to do, so you're you know, you're 55 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 2: active if you're not sure what to talk about. It's 56 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 2: sort of a perfectly sociable, unsociable meal to cook. Pour 57 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 2: in the vermouth and cook until it's been absorbed, stirring 58 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 2: all the while, then adding the hot stock ladle by Ladel. 59 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 2: Continue to cook until the rice is identity. Add the 60 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 2: wild mushrooms, the remaining butter, the parmesan and the chopped parsley, 61 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 2: and well, the best rosotto ever good. 62 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: It's comforting resulta. 63 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: But this was the first thing I ever cooked from 64 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 2: your cookbook, which is why I think it was in 65 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 2: one of the earlier ones. Yeah, I'm going to be 66 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 2: brave and attempt to resott it. Did you cook when 67 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 2: you were a kid? Did you? 68 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 4: No? 69 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: Not at all. 70 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 2: I didn't grow up in an environment where cooking was celebrated. 71 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 2: Food was made to eat to live. Frozen pizzas, margarine, 72 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 2: you know that that was to put in when you 73 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 2: come home from school, make for yourself and eat just a. 74 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: Make for yourself. So would you sit down to a 75 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: family meal or everybody taken care of that? 76 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 2: I almost can't remember family meals. So I think that's 77 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 2: again why I feel so excited about a kitchen very alive, 78 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 2: with food being cooked and bread being baked, and aromas 79 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 2: and activity, because as was definitely not not that environment. 80 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: Sometimes I talk to people who grew up with the 81 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 1: romantic idea of the family sitting down to a family 82 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 1: supperer and sitting and talking about the day, and some 83 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: people described having a mother that worked the night shift, 84 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: or a mother or father who came home from work 85 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: and were exhausted, or they came home from work and 86 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 1: they would prefer to do homework with you then cook. 87 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: I mean, there are many reasons why the image of 88 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: the family perhaps is somewhat romanticized, but it is important 89 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: something that, as you say, we try and create for 90 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: our kids. But you didn't have a role model for that, 91 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: so you had the reverse, but you changed it for 92 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 1: your own family. 93 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 3: I did have the rest. 94 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 2: And you know, sometimes, especially doing something like this, you 95 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 2: sort of look back and try and find that memory. 96 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: Now. 97 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 2: I definitely remember my mom made a dish that she 98 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 2: would be proud of, which was a rabbit dish with mustard, 99 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 2: I think, but that was something that was that would 100 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 2: come out. I don't know it would be a big thing. 101 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 2: But the rest of the time, it was moral survival. 102 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: What was she doing or your father doing? Was your 103 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: father there? 104 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 3: It was my stepfather? 105 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 4: Really? 106 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 2: Who who my sort of that part of my life 107 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 2: is more of a memory. 108 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:54,559 Speaker 1: And so do you think they were doing other things 109 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: rather than cook or did they just not? 110 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 2: It's a complicated history and it's hard to go into 111 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 2: not because not because it is sort of full of 112 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 2: sort of trauma and pain, but it's more that I 113 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 2: actually have this sort of almost blackout of I don't 114 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 2: actually have that much memory from that. 115 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 3: Time in my life. 116 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 2: And also if I do go into it or I 117 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 2: talk about it, I sort of feel a hope that 118 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 2: I've evolved to a place where I don't I don't 119 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 2: want to sort of talk about it with malice. It's 120 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 2: not that they were working. I think it was more 121 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 2: struggle survival and mental health, to be honest, and a 122 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 2: lot of a lot of just difficult scenarios. 123 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: Did you have coparts? 124 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 2: But they died when I was quite young, so I 125 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 2: don't really have a memory of them in terms of, 126 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 2: you know, I had sort of I had a great 127 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 2: Auntie Gladys, and a great uncle Les, who I felt 128 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 2: very close to, who lived in Shepherd's Bush. There was 129 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 2: a lot of time around their house in Shepherd's Bush, 130 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 2: and they were very much sort of meet and too 131 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 2: veg and I remember going home one day and saying 132 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 2: to my auntie Gladays, I'd say, I can't have roast chicken. 133 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 2: I'm a vegetarian, and she said, what chicken is not 134 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 2: really an animal? 135 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 3: Of course you can eat it. 136 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: I can't. 137 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 3: But but that was the sort of stability. 138 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 2: For me, they were this, you know, the stable hold, 139 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 2: the home where I would go to as a student 140 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 2: to know that I could be fed. 141 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: Did you struggle with food? Did you enjoy it? Did you? Yeah? 142 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: And I have school lunch when. 143 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 2: I did, but I was a free school dinner's kid, 144 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 2: so I was in the opposite queue. 145 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 3: To my friends. 146 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: Well, they had different queues. 147 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 3: They had different. 148 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: Cues, disgusting. 149 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 3: There was the queue on the left, which was the 150 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 3: regular queue. 151 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 2: Of Dickens, and then there was the free school dinner's line. 152 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 2: And and I wasn't always in the free school dinner's line. 153 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 2: There were moments where I was in it, and there 154 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 2: are moments where I could bounce over to the other side, 155 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 2: and I just always remember the dread of today I 156 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 2: have to go in the free school dinner's line, and 157 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 2: that fear of just like you know, feeling separate from 158 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 2: all your friends and just that sort of feeling a 159 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 2: little bit of shame that comes with. 160 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: Him or maybe a lot. So you had school lunches 161 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: and then. 162 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 2: School lunches and then home. Yeah, mostly yeahs and pizzas. 163 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 2: Where did you go out? Firstly in London until I 164 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 2: was eleven in stratum and then after that we moved 165 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 2: to the countryside to Sussex. But that was a big shock. 166 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,679 Speaker 2: I was terrified of trees. It was so funny because 167 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 2: I was such an urban girl until then, and then 168 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 2: the idea that I had to walk down these country 169 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 2: lanes with trees. 170 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 3: It was quite funny. 171 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: Interesting because a lot of the people that I've talked 172 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 1: to think about the way they struggled in their youth, 173 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: whether they were from another country, whether their parents were 174 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 1: uncomfortable in being in England, whether they or in the 175 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: United States, wherever they were, people who struggled with money, 176 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: with divorce and all this is to do, you know, 177 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: with food and how those memories above and also I 178 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 1: don't know if you feel, but they measure and I 179 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: don't know if you do, measure their almost their success 180 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: by being able to order something delicious on the menu. 181 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: Paul McCartney, the able to order a good glass of 182 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: wine was something away that they measured their their own 183 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: success totally. 184 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 2: I mean, we never ate out, so eating out really 185 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 2: came to me in adult life. And I think that 186 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:38,319 Speaker 2: the first time I realized food was for pleasure. Yeah, 187 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 2: was actually a college trip to Rome or post college. 188 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 2: I can't really remember, but we went to a small 189 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 2: little restaurant and I ordered something because I had absolutely 190 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 2: no idea what to expect, tabulatary with lemon lemon pasta, 191 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 2: and I remember eating it and just having this sort 192 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 2: of total, you know, explosion of flavor and thoughts and 193 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 2: feelings about is this what food can be? And that 194 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 2: feeling of tasting something which just kind of completely opens 195 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 2: your mind to potential. I guess that, and that you know, 196 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 2: it wasn't expensive, it was affordable, and that I could 197 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 2: eat this amazing food and not frozen pizzas. It was 198 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 2: a revelation, Yeah, and probably in my sort of probably 199 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 2: when I was about nineteen, I think then I went 200 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 2: to art school in Hastings, which was like a massive 201 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 2: turning point of excitement in my life, and then after 202 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 2: that into London for art school. 203 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: I always think it's another conversation about artists that creating 204 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: art is very solitary. Yeah, activity that you are in 205 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: your studio and your paint and everybody sort of had 206 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: these kind of wild nights of eating and drinking together 207 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: because it was so solitary during the day. Did you 208 00:10:58,720 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: find that. 209 00:10:59,280 --> 00:10:59,599 Speaker 3: Or was it? 210 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think art school for me was like a 211 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 2: huge door had opened into a world of so much 212 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 2: possibility and excitement. And I feel like for the first 213 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 2: two years when I was at Hastings, I was just 214 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 2: sort of wide eyed and in sort of slight shock 215 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 2: that I was in this environment and just kept very quiet. 216 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 2: And then I went to Northeast London Polytechnic, which was 217 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 2: a very robust sort of shipbuilding yard feeling because I 218 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 2: was in the sculpture department. And then I left there 219 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 2: after the first year and went to Goldsmith, which by 220 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 2: comparison felt like a sort of Swiss finishing school because 221 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 2: people were very elegant and they were talking about ideas, 222 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 2: and I, again I felt very like I was sort 223 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:50,599 Speaker 2: of sitting on the outside, watching and feeling this environment 224 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 2: being so alien. 225 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: Was that the days of Michael Craig Martin and Damian 226 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: Land and it was and. 227 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 2: That freeze had just happened, So there was a lot 228 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 2: of debate around this huge exhibition that had sort of 229 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 2: thrown all these young artists that were still at art 230 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 2: school onto the map, and there was a sort of 231 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 2: freeze and an anti freeze, and I just sort of 232 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 2: sat again and sort of listened and felt the debates 233 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 2: between everything and everyone, but sort of also knew I 234 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 2: was in the eye of a storm, and I of 235 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 2: a very exciting transitional moment in the art world because 236 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 2: these artists like Damien had a studio outside of art 237 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 2: school and was already you know, functioning as an artist 238 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 2: and selling and having exhibitions, and Gary Hume and Sarah 239 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 2: Luca you know, it all was just this sort of 240 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 2: bubbling energy that I felt but didn't quite know how 241 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 2: to access because I was still sort of feeling a 242 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 2: bit quiet on the outside. It really took going to 243 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 2: Tracy Emmen and Sarah Lucas had a little shop in 244 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,319 Speaker 2: the East End, just off of Brick Lane, and it 245 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 2: really took going to that little shop to feel that 246 00:12:55,400 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 2: anything was possible, that anything they made was art, and 247 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 2: they were artists and they were allowing themselves to be that. 248 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 2: And it was that moment for me that was quite 249 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 2: pivotal in understanding I could allow myself to be an artist, 250 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 2: that I could actually sort of say it out loud 251 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 2: and actually be creative. And I think up until then, 252 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 2: you know, you sort of feel like you're in the 253 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,319 Speaker 2: wrong place at the wrong time, and you're not meant 254 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 2: to be there feeling. 255 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:26,199 Speaker 1: Were you as adventurous in your I guess development as 256 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: an artist as maybe in food? Did you go to 257 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:34,599 Speaker 1: Chinese restaurants or Indian restaurants? Did you Indian restaurants or 258 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:36,079 Speaker 1: drink whiskeys? 259 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 2: No, Indian restaurants was absolutely where we all went because 260 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 2: once I kind of, once I, you know, became friends 261 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 2: with Tracy, we all would you know, sort of be 262 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 2: in that neighborhood and we'd all, you know, go in 263 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 2: and out of all the different Indian restaurants around that 264 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 2: area and find our favorites, and that's where we would gather. 265 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:01,319 Speaker 3: I felt like. 266 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 2: Exactly how you said earlier about McCartney saying it was 267 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 2: a measure of success. I'm growing into my own person 268 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 2: because I understand food. I'm growing into my own person 269 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 2: because I can take myself to a restaurant and I 270 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 2: can actually order something that's completely different to anything I've 271 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 2: ever tried before. And I think it is it's a 272 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 2: feeling of one, you're sort of stepping into being an adult, 273 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 2: but also you're stepping into sort of a feeling of 274 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 2: new success, not necessarily you know, huge financial success, but 275 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 2: beginning to be able to take yourself places. My first 276 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 2: job as a waiter would have been when I was 277 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 2: at school. I worked in a local beefeater steakhouse and 278 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 2: used to have to wear a beefe to Little Apron 279 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 2: and then Vic Naylor's and Clarkhall. Do you remember Vic 280 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 2: Naylor's and Clarkwork. It was a great restaurant and I 281 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 2: I mean it was just fun, fun, fun, but it 282 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 2: was also terrible because I used to we all used 283 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 2: to get absolutely trashed. And I remember going to a 284 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 2: table and someone said do you have any bread? And 285 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 2: I said yes, let me go and get it. And 286 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 2: then it was just up the road from Saint John, 287 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 2: and I said, quick, where's the bread. They're like, oh, 288 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 2: we don't have any. Can you run to get some 289 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 2: from Saint John. Absolutely I ran to Saint John and 290 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 2: then my then manager was. 291 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 3: Sat at the bar. I come, I have a drink 292 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 3: with me. 293 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 2: So I sat down and had a drink which turned 294 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 2: into two, and I was the bread. I quickly got 295 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 2: the bread from Saint John and ran back. I've got 296 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 2: you some bread about an hour ago. This place is terrible. 297 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 2: Let me see the manager. Let me go and get 298 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 2: him rundown Saint John. Pull him out the bar, and 299 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 2: the whole story is that. He then went up and said, 300 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 2: you asked to see me. Yes, the service is terrible. 301 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 2: He said, yes, I agree, Now you should leave. 302 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: What year was there? 303 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 3: That was right after I left art school? 304 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: So lit. 305 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 3: Nine? 306 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: Yeah? Maybe yeah, times have changed. I think you think 307 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: maybe there's still those places, but we've all become much more. 308 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: Do you know the story about Damien. 309 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 3: And which one? 310 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: Which one? The one at the grad Show club where 311 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: he and aunt completely trashed. I had just I banned 312 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: somebody from the River Cafe for being rude to one 313 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: of my waiters, and I was telling the story I 314 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: was telling out and he said, well, Damien, I went 315 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: and we got completely you know, trash, and we were 316 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: They closed the doors and we were kicked out, and 317 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: we went on the street and then we found a 318 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: ladder and we climbed up and we broke a window. 319 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: We came in and then we got sick over the 320 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: pool table, and then we went and got some alcohol 321 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: out of the out of the fridge and we drank that. 322 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: Then we you know, we took something and we crashed 323 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: out on the sofa. Was Mary Anne, the manager came 324 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: in the next daye said, you know, I could call 325 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: the police. You broke and new enter, you damage my property, 326 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: and you stole stuff, you know, but instead of calling 327 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 1: the police, I am going to ban you for twenty 328 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: four hours. 329 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 5: Twenty four hours, brilliant are the days I had a 330 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 5: customer who just was slightly rude to somebody, and I said, 331 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 5: you could never come back again. 332 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 1: You know, that's the difference. 333 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 3: It is a measure of a person. 334 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: Well, that's why it's good to I think people date 335 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: people in restaurants, you know, you go on a date 336 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,360 Speaker 1: and see how they are to the waiter, or you 337 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: interview lots of people. Have you ever interviewed anybody for 338 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: a job in a restaurant? 339 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 3: Totally? Yeah, yeah I did you Before I came here, 340 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 3: I met someone was. 341 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 2: Higher for the movie actually yeah, perfect, perfect, perfect and 342 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 2: brilliant O. 343 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: Good good good. And so from from being an art 344 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 1: school and then being an artist, what was it like 345 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: in the once you were all working and I hate 346 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 1: to use the word successful, but successful when you and 347 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: Jay lived in that house and parties? Was food? Did 348 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: you care about food then? Did you think that you 349 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: all wanted it? 350 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 4: Was? 351 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: It was hard. 352 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 2: It's hard to sort of cast my mind to that era, 353 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 2: because it's that thing I think Koko Chanel said it, 354 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 2: it's you know, I'm six people away from the person 355 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 2: I once was. I think, yeah, I sometimes feel like that. 356 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 2: And so when I think back to those times, I 357 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 2: think of myself as a very different person, and so 358 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 2: so much sort of shift and change within myself happened 359 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 2: during that period. I was suddenly sort of living in 360 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 2: this very sort of grand house and living a very 361 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 2: different life, and and it was all sort of fast 362 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 2: rolling and high octane, and fast rolling and high octane 363 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 2: is fun, and then you can't. It's so hard to maintain. 364 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 2: And I couldn't maintain it. And I definitely sort of 365 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 2: felt like, you know, throw these parties and then I 366 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 2: would disappear off at about ten o'clock. 367 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 1: I remember the part that you didn't talk about. What 368 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: we haven't talked about in terms of food and being 369 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 1: an artist, and in that lifetime was when you were ill, yeah, 370 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 1: and the diet that you then, and I remember very 371 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: well your rigor in dealing with your illness, in the 372 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 1: way you ate, and I think it was really before 373 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: a lot of us thought about food and health, and 374 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: you were unhealthy and you use food to think about health. 375 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: And you also took you know, you went the scientific route, 376 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 1: so you went for the medicine and for the but 377 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: it wasn't alternative. You did it. But you did do 378 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: a diet. I remember you very clearly talked no dairy. 379 00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I have. 380 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 2: To sort of almost step out I sided myself to 381 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 2: talk about it. But yeah, nineteen ninety seven, six months 382 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 2: after I had Angelico's, my oddest of four daughters, I 383 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 2: got diagnosed with colon cancer. And of course it was, 384 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 2: you know, a shock, but there was such an urgency 385 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 2: in my mind to be well and to get back 386 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 2: home and be a mother and be present that I 387 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 2: just sort of, you know, almost jumped out of the 388 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 2: hospital bed and I'm back, I'm fine. And then three 389 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 2: years later I got diagnosed with breast cancer. And then 390 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 2: I didn't leap out of bed, and I didn't say 391 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 2: I'm back, I'm fine. I got sort of quietly retreated 392 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 2: into myself, I think, and I went to a very 393 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 2: sort of almost a totally different personality to somebody I 394 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,679 Speaker 2: knew myself as in a way in order to figure 395 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 2: out a way to get through it. 396 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 3: And it's it's a. 397 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 2: Trauma, and in that trauma, you have to sort of 398 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 2: figure out what are my options, what are my options 399 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 2: of survival? And obviously when you're in it, you're not 400 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 2: thinking clearly in that way. But you know, it was 401 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 2: very much the first time I didn't take it seriously. 402 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 2: Almost second time, I'm going to take this very seriously. 403 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:17,360 Speaker 3: You know, I want to live. 404 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 2: I want to be a mom and be around and 405 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 2: that was my you know, that was the thing I 406 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 2: had Angelica as my purpose and goal to survive for. 407 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 2: You know, it was chemotherapy, mastec to me and everything 408 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:34,719 Speaker 2: medical that I could. 409 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 3: But at the. 410 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 2: Same time, I knew that I had to support that 411 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 2: for myself with I had acupuncture. I gave up I 412 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 2: gave up drinking and the party life, and I gave up, 413 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 2: you know, anything that I felt was detrimental to my health. Sugar, 414 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 2: I gave up dairy and pretty much set still. 415 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: Do you still not. 416 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 2: Have Yeah, okay, let's not be too puritan sugar. Yes, 417 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 2: there's every so often, but I'm conscious about eating and 418 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 2: I'm conscious about if things have you know, very strict 419 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 2: about milk, very strict about cheese, butter, I'll allow it then, 420 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 2: you know, and I'm not going to be too because 421 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 2: there's also a point where you just have to you know, 422 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 2: you have to function in the world. And you know, 423 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 2: there was probably at least five years where I was 424 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 2: absolutely I would read every ingredient and nothing could be 425 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 2: because I was frightened, you know, and fear is a 426 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 2: very good reason to make sacrifices and changes in your life. 427 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 2: I just shifted into a completely different person in a way. 428 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: Would you tell somebody who came to see that if 429 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: they had cancer and any form, would you say to 430 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 1: them to try to do. 431 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 3: This because you don't. 432 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,919 Speaker 2: It's difficult because also you know, there's varying. You know, 433 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 2: your case is different to the next person. It's the 434 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,199 Speaker 2: next person to what level you have it or you know, 435 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 2: it's hard to advise people in that way we talked 436 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,199 Speaker 2: about to people who are in it, I try to 437 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 2: be you know, get up in the morning, put on 438 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 2: a great song, move around, care people when you're feeling down. 439 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 2: I try to sort of keep it, you know, let's 440 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 2: keep it in a place where we're going to get 441 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 2: through this. 442 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 3: It's a job. 443 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 2: It's a job, and you know it's also you can't 444 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 2: people say, well, you're so brave to have gotten through it. 445 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 2: But it's not bravery that gets you through it, because 446 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 2: it doesn't mean that people who haven't survived aren't brave. 447 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 2: Getting through it is you know, an amount of medical intervention, 448 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 2: amount of luck in terms of diagnosis and what you 449 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 2: can then do to support all of that. 450 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: But when you talk about the energy or the you know, 451 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: the getting up and doing that has shown that actually 452 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,919 Speaker 1: a kind of activity with any illness, with grief. You know, 453 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: you say that, having been through grief in my life, 454 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 1: that I sort of know the drill, you know, which 455 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,199 Speaker 1: is you get out of bed or I mean you 456 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: can stay in bed and cry all day too, that's fine, 457 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: but the you know, the activity, and. 458 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,360 Speaker 3: He's in the support of you know, friendships. 459 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 2: When I was, when I would have chema, i'd have 460 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 2: Gary Hume and Georgie and Johnny Shankid and friends would 461 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 2: you know, bring the food and sit around and sort 462 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 2: of laugh and sit with me for a few hours 463 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 2: and you know, you sort of feel, you know, the 464 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 2: chema going through your veins. But on the other hand, 465 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 2: you could be eating some strawberries and chatting with friends 466 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 2: and watching watching everyone just you know support you in 467 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,439 Speaker 2: that way, and I think and yeah, and that's also 468 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,199 Speaker 2: you know, that was definitely sort of food related in 469 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 2: the sense that you know, chema can taste bad in 470 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 2: your mouth. It's sort of metallicy. And my friends had 471 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 2: researched that a little bit. I've heard if you have 472 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 2: you know, some boiled sweets, or if you have this, 473 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 2: or and then another friend mango. 474 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 3: Mango is really good. 475 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: Because Rose Gray, you started the cafe with and had 476 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: breast cancer, just found that. I always say that she 477 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: ate her way through chemo, you know, just ate everything. 478 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: But she she was careful, yeah, as she was before 479 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: she got sick, but she loved having mangoes. 480 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 2: Serotonin I think it's good for but I think it's 481 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 2: also I mean still now really education around nutrition and 482 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 2: what's you know, what's good for you to live, Like 483 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 2: I said, as a keep the machine at optimum level, 484 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 2: you know, and maintenance. We maintain our cars sometimes better 485 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:18,719 Speaker 2: than our bodies. 486 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 6: And hi there, My name is Hamish. I am one 487 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 6: of the chefs here at the River Cafe. One of 488 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 6: the sauces or dishes that I think is very special 489 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 6: to us, and it's coming back onto the venue a 490 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 6: bit more often. Is our Banya Kouder. We make this 491 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 6: sauce by reducing down a bottle of Italian red wine 492 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 6: or champagne or prosecco, and then we melt in about 493 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 6: twelve to fifteen cloves of garlic anchovies and this creates 494 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:03,880 Speaker 6: a really ten salty, amazing base to a sauce. Then 495 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 6: copious amounts of butter to make it extremely smooth, silky 496 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 6: and just rich and delicious. 497 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:20,639 Speaker 3: Is my favorite an sourdi bread. 498 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:22,919 Speaker 1: This is the saltiness of the anto. 499 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 2: But I think growing up what it equates to, so 500 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 2: that would be my I'm successful and knowledgeable and I 501 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 2: can eat anchovies on toast. 502 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 3: It comes from growing up with Marma on toast. 503 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: Yes, it's one of. 504 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 2: Those, and Mama on toast for me has been a 505 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 2: constant constant from child all the way through my student life, 506 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 2: artist life. 507 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: So I was trying about the solitariness of being an artist. 508 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: But what about as I go back to the to 509 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,919 Speaker 1: the cinema when you directed Noaby or when you do 510 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: directed Fifty Shades of Gray, do you do you think 511 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: about how you feed the people on the set. Is 512 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: that important to you? The way you start for food? 513 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 1: Break was Anderson that he hates a lunch hour because 514 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 1: it makes everybody stop, and then you have to get tired, 515 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: and then but you know, he tried to give everybody soup, 516 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 1: but then the crew wanted meals. 517 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 3: How do you deal with It's interesting. 518 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 2: I feel absolutely with West in that way that I 519 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 2: don't like when everyone stops for lunch. But at the 520 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 2: same time, I do like the communal break of everyone 521 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 2: sitting and sort of literally digesting what we've done and 522 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 2: talking around food. And I always try to make sure 523 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 2: we have reasonably good caterers so that everyone's just sort 524 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 2: of enjoying that time rather than just complaining this is disgusting. 525 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: Was there a difference in doing nowhere By and fifty 526 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: Shades of Gray from. 527 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 2: I'm sure there was. I can't remember. It's own trauma. 528 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 2: But but we Aaron and I made a movie in 529 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 2: twenty one days. We didn't We made a million little 530 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:07,679 Speaker 2: pieces and it was the smallest, smallest, smallest. 531 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 3: Budget, but we had the best, best food. 532 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: There's a food touch to feel very different from Los Angeles. 533 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: We've moved from l A to English, the English country. 534 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: I mean, what about food and that feel different? 535 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 2: This particle shift not in our house because we cook 536 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 2: the same things, but definitely a different culture of Well. 537 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 4: The difference is avocados. There's certain things that grow differently 538 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 4: so Africa. You know, when you're were West coast, if 539 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 4: you had these sort of you know, anything California or 540 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 4: from Mexico. The avocados a difference to Guacamole's like amazing 541 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 4: have avocados here. They're sort of imported from Spain and 542 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 4: they're hard and there there's just no point. 543 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: There's no point. 544 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 4: There's no point in avocado and you just don't eat that. 545 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 1: I really respect that you said, because it is to 546 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: do with the ingredient. 547 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 548 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: What about do you go to fewer restaurants here? Did 549 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: you eat out more in La. 550 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 3: We did, probably, I think, but we are in the middle. 551 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: Of the urban there too, probably, yeah, And there was 552 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 1: I don't know, it was a different I had a 553 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: sort of different routine I think there for food, you know, 554 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: I was. 555 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 2: Really into and I'll have a shake and yes, could 556 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,479 Speaker 2: you put some racio mushroom and a little bit of 557 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 2: this and a little bit of that, and there everyone 558 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 2: seems so knowledgeable about what about what each ingredient of 559 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 2: this certain mushroom is going to give you. You know, this 560 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 2: one's for the brain and cognitive function, and this one's 561 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 2: for memory, and this one's for your liver, and this 562 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 2: one's for you know. I was getting quite good at 563 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 2: all of that and understanding how it was going to 564 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 2: benefit me, and then you know, I got here. I 565 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 2: was like, where am I going to get my charger? 566 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 3: Do you drink coffee? 567 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: Do I drink coffee? 568 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 3: New to coffee? 569 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 4: Very new to coffee, Like the American coffee was just 570 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 4: the sort of the diner coffee, the all day for 571 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 4: filted coffee. 572 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 3: It's just sort of, Yeah, tell. 573 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: Me about food in your house? Well, how many children? Four? 574 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 2: I mean for this weekend, they're all four at home. 575 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 2: I mean my specialty is the pancakes. I'd like to 576 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 2: say I'm the pancakes person Tenesca. I have my dishes, 577 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 2: but the pancakes are in the mornings. I can make creps, 578 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 2: I can make big fluffy pancakes as they're called, or 579 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 2: I can do the green pancakes, which are roamy. My 580 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:39,719 Speaker 2: youngest one absolutely loves. She's very What is that how 581 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 2: they made? It's they're basically one egg, one banana, gluten 582 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 2: free flour, a handful of spinach and cinnamon and vanilla, 583 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 2: and and and a cup of almond milk blitzed, and 584 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 2: then and then Friday coking up oil and they puff 585 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 2: up and then absolutely up do they puff up with 586 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 2: a little bit of baking powder in there, and and 587 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 2: then Yeah, Aaron's good at cooking, literally sort of seven 588 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 2: seven weeks, so many dishes. 589 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 3: Are on the table when he cooks. 590 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: I'm just like, that's so nice. I can't bake. 591 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 2: When Aaron ever goes into the kitchen to bake, we 592 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 2: all are literally waiting for a blood splattering because. 593 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 3: We're always with the blender. 594 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: The cherry that. 595 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 4: He put his finger in it, well, I was trying 596 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,959 Speaker 4: to take what was left over dough off around the 597 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 4: thing my fingers, but my hand was obviously gripping the 598 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 4: top of the button, so it went, it went, blits 599 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 4: the top of my I don't have much of a. 600 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: Nail on that finger off. So what do you do 601 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: for desserts? Do you have dessert? 602 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 4: And Roamy? Our youngest is a bit of a baker, actually, 603 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 4: so we recently got really rumble a gorgeous apple orchard 604 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 4: in Somerset, and with a mixture of cooking apples and 605 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 4: cider apples, and could eat blackberries everywhere right now at 606 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 4: the moment, there's tons of blackberries. So recently it was 607 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 4: a BlackBerry an apple crumble. 608 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: My last questions to you Aaron and to you Sam 609 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: would be if you need food for comfort, is there 610 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,239 Speaker 1: a food that you would reach for? 611 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 2: Marmite and a jacket potato is probably actually a could 612 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 2: trump the avie on, but marmite butter jacket potato. 613 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 3: That is my comfort food. I know I'm looking at you. 614 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 1: Thank you, you will be You're my comfort. Thank you, Sam, 615 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. 616 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 3: This was a joy. 617 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. The River Cafe look Book is 618 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: on sale. One hundred pages of beautiful photographs that will 619 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: inspire you to cook. It's a look book, It's a cookbook. 620 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: Order one now. Ruthie's Table four is a production of 621 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio Anatomized studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the 622 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 623 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: favorite shows.