Speaker 1: We still cut trees down by hand. We still handcut.
Speaker 1: It's still work.
Speaker 2: But I mean what we do now it ain't nothing
Speaker 2: like what it used to be.
Speaker 3: If you think about the industries that made America, it
Speaker 3: would be hard to argue that the login industry wasn't
Speaker 3: among the most influential in making this country. Wood built
Speaker 3: this place. This episode is a fresh look at some
Speaker 3: modern loggers friends of mine, as a matter of fact,
Speaker 3: good friends. This is a story about the inherent danger
Speaker 3: in the login profession. These guys share their own experiences,
Speaker 3: but they'll share accounts of others they knew who were
Speaker 3: killed on the job. This is a biographical piece on
Speaker 3: one family of loggers in the Ozarks of Newton County, Arkansas,
Speaker 3: with the last name the Lines and Hey Bear, John
Speaker 3: Nukom and I are starting a new Bear Grease YouTube channel.
Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, it's the old Bear Hunting
Speaker 3: magazine YouTube channel. We just changed the name and we're
Speaker 3: having some completely new content. We're gonna have a weekly
Speaker 3: content on there, and the first piece drops on February
Speaker 3: the eleventh. You can do us a huge favor by
Speaker 3: going over and checking it out.
Speaker 4: Gonna be a ton of fun.
Speaker 3: My name is Clay Nukeom and this is the Bear
Speaker 3: Grease Podcast, where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search
Speaker 3: for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the
Speaker 3: story of Americans who live their lives close to the land.
Speaker 3: Brought to you by to COVID's Quality boots in Western Wear,
Speaker 3: point your toes West.
Speaker 4: Have you ever been hurt bad logging?
Speaker 5: I have none.
Speaker 1: I broke my foot. I've been hung up a time
Speaker 1: or two, got my arm hung and hung up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got one. I got my arm stuck one time.
Speaker 3: This is Cody Velines, and don't be fooled by him
Speaker 3: saying he's never been hurt bad.
Speaker 4: His definition of hurt is different than most.
Speaker 3: He's got a full salt and pepper beard, and it's
Speaker 3: kind of wild eyed. When you first meet him, you
Speaker 3: can't tell if he's a little crazy or just really smart.
Speaker 3: After getting to know him, I think he's both. We're
Speaker 3: standing inside the global headquarters of the Vilins Logging Company.
Speaker 4: I want to hear what he meant by getting hung up.
Speaker 1: Me and Dad and Frankiedale were logging. And you don't
Speaker 1: know Frankidale. But if you even say you ain't had
Speaker 1: to say Frankie Dale around here. You can just say
Speaker 1: frank and every I didn't know what who you're talking about.
Speaker 6: But I worked with him. I worked with him for
Speaker 6: several years.
Speaker 1: And he were skitting logs way up out of there.
Speaker 1: It's like two inches down, and that was hot. And
Speaker 1: I'd been skinning. He was cutting, and I'd been skinning,
Speaker 1: and he said, if you'll buck those logs up, I'll
Speaker 1: give you a break on skarting them up out of there.
Speaker 6: I said, sounded like a deal to me.
Speaker 1: So Frank with the skinning, and I was cutting up
Speaker 1: logs by hand, and we had a stick that was like.
Speaker 6: Some people would cut a stick for four and some people.
Speaker 1: Would have a major stick that was a full eight eight,
Speaker 1: which is what TI logs are supposed to be.
Speaker 6: We had a stick that was for four.
Speaker 1: And I was cutting up logs and I dropped my
Speaker 1: stick down in the log pile. And at this time, I'm,
Speaker 1: you know, early twenties, from the middle twenties. You know,
Speaker 1: I've been doing it for a long time. But then
Speaker 1: and I wrench you in there to grab my stick,
Speaker 1: and when I stuck my arm down in there, the
Speaker 1: log above rolled and faced me. And it was a
Speaker 1: big log, a big one, big old red oak, and
Speaker 1: there I was stuck. And it's hot summertime. Now I
Speaker 1: can't even move it by yourself and by myself. Dad's
Speaker 1: gone with a load of logs, and Frank's in the
Speaker 1: botto in this canyon coming back with another dragon logs. Well,
Speaker 1: I can hear him one old five eighteen caterpillar just pulling, pulling,
Speaker 1: slowly pulling, coming up out of that canyon. And it's
Speaker 1: starting to hurt. I mean, it's really hurting. And I
Speaker 1: can hear Frank coming up to there. And I finally
Speaker 1: get to where I can see him, and he's coming
Speaker 1: up through there. And Frank smoked in He smoked the
Speaker 1: more USA golds. That's where he smoked. I can see
Speaker 1: Frank on that skin he's smoking that.
Speaker 6: Cigarette he loved.
Speaker 1: Over there where I was at. He just stopped got
Speaker 1: off here. It come just in a walk. He walked
Speaker 1: up there.
Speaker 6: He's still smoking that cigarette.
Speaker 7: He says, boy, you're in a trap, ain't you.
Speaker 1: I said, get me out of here. He never got excited,
Speaker 1: walked back over into the skinny. Then come over there,
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking he's gonna tear my arm off when
Speaker 1: he starts pushing on this log file. He's up there,
Speaker 1: and he he got me out.
Speaker 4: Running around with these guys.
Speaker 3: I've noticed that stories kind of gathered themselves up around them,
Speaker 3: stories about people. We're gonna hear more about this Frankie
Speaker 3: Dell later. And these guys are really good at telling
Speaker 3: these stories. And each one carries a value system that
Speaker 3: stands out to me as unique in modern times.
Speaker 4: That's mainly why I'm here along with Cody.
Speaker 3: Actually right beside us is his slightly younger cousin, younger
Speaker 3: by six months, Kaylin Vilines. We've now moved outside of
Speaker 3: their main building. It's a little windy, but the view
Speaker 3: is noteworthy. So Kaylan from we're standing right here and
Speaker 3: we can see like about one hundred and eighty degrees vista.
Speaker 3: Have you logged with insight of here? I mean we
Speaker 3: can see like miles.
Speaker 8: Oh, absolutely, any direction you look, pretty much. I've I've logged,
Speaker 8: maybe not all of it, but any direction you can
Speaker 8: look from here.
Speaker 5: We've definitely worked.
Speaker 4: What your dad used to tell you.
Speaker 8: Oh, dad used to say when I was a kid, we'd
Speaker 8: stand right here and he'd say, Son, anywhere you can
Speaker 8: see I've been he's either working or hunting, and I
Speaker 8: can pretty much say the same thing.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 3: What I hadn't told you yet is these guys are
Speaker 3: also really good hunters. They're deer hunters, they're squirrel dog men,
Speaker 3: they're coon hunters. They've all got mules, they're just woodsmen.
Speaker 3: You rarely see Kaylin without a cup of coffee in
Speaker 3: his hand, day or night. And he's always got on
Speaker 3: his light tan felt cowboy hat. That's warning so good
Speaker 3: you think he probably sleeps in it. But the lines
Speaker 3: logging main facility is impressive. It's a fifty foot wide,
Speaker 3: three sided metal barn with a semi truck, a John
Speaker 3: Deere dozer, and a skidder and loader parked underneath it.
Speaker 3: There's no indoor office, no secretaries or printers. As a
Speaker 3: matter of fact, the parking lot is a pasture. The
Speaker 3: only employees are Cody Kaylin and Teddy Viliines, Cody's dad.
Speaker 3: The open side of the barn faces one hundred and
Speaker 3: eighty degree view of purplish hills that look like a
Speaker 3: rolling sea where giant waves rise out of deep troughs.
Speaker 3: To me, it's the location of this fine building that
Speaker 3: makes it stand out. It's its orientation to the sunrise
Speaker 3: and how its open design gives one the feeling of
Speaker 3: freedom even while inside, which leads me to think that
Speaker 3: this building's designers must have been educated in America's finest
Speaker 3: halls of architecture. It's inspiring yet functional, but all you
Speaker 3: can see in any direction is trees. That's what the
Speaker 3: land has given this family, and that's what they've used
Speaker 3: to make a living.
Speaker 4: So what kind of saw is that?
Speaker 5: It?
Speaker 1: Is?
Speaker 5: A steal? A five hundred die?
Speaker 4: And how long will this saw?
Speaker 5: Last?
Speaker 6: Year?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 8: I usually if I can get a year out of one,
Speaker 8: I've done pretty good.
Speaker 3: Kaylin and Cody have been raised within sight of each
Speaker 3: other and have worked together their entire lives. As a
Speaker 3: matter of fact, their dads, who are brothers, Eddie and Teddy,
Speaker 3: also live within a quarter mile of where we're standing
Speaker 3: and have also worked together their entire lives in the logwoods.
Speaker 3: Question of the ages for both of you, there's a
Speaker 3: lot of things y'all can do to make a living.
Speaker 4: Why are you a logger?
Speaker 6: Like?
Speaker 4: What are the benefits of it?
Speaker 6: For me?
Speaker 7: The biggest benefit, I mean number one.
Speaker 1: If you're gonna do it, you gotta you gotta love it,
Speaker 1: you gotta want to do it. And for the most
Speaker 1: part around here, the guys that do it are boring
Speaker 1: into it. Honestly. I mean, if you really look around,
Speaker 1: it's a family deal. But the as benefits from me,
Speaker 1: the freedom.
Speaker 7: That's the number one reason, your own boss.
Speaker 1: That's why I do it. Yep, yep, that's a benefit.
Speaker 1: I mean, I like it. I enjoy it. Cutting timber
Speaker 1: it's addictive. It's like a drug. Cutting timber is addictive.
Speaker 1: Ask anybody, it's addictive. But the biggest benefit to the whole,
Speaker 1: biggest scheme of it is the freedom.
Speaker 4: What's that freedom look like for you?
Speaker 5: When you wake up?
Speaker 1: If I want to go hunting tomorrow, then I go
Speaker 1: hunting tomorrow.
Speaker 7: I don't have to call the boss.
Speaker 6: I just say, all right, boys, we're going hunting to morrow.
Speaker 1: And we're going hunting tomorrow.
Speaker 4: Yeah, what about you, Kaylen?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was going.
Speaker 8: He took the words in my mouth. That's Dad always said,
Speaker 8: Well I was born into it. Yeah, well we're Yeah,
Speaker 8: we were born into it. Though Dad tried to talk
Speaker 8: me out of all my life.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, but it was but it was his fault.
Speaker 7: Got to talk you out of it still made you
Speaker 7: get them go.
Speaker 8: Yeah, they made us get up and go. And people
Speaker 8: think we're exaggerating line, but we were probably eight nine
Speaker 8: year old when we started going. Yeah, we didn't have
Speaker 8: a summer vacation. We went to logwoods.
Speaker 1: I started the seventh grade with my foot in the
Speaker 1: walking boot. Dad and ed aunt know who had what,
Speaker 1: but I think Dad had a McCollough. Dad had a
Speaker 1: seven hundred McCollough. That aady had an Xcel twelve home lot.
Speaker 1: And they let us use those chain saws.
Speaker 5: Now, they made us use it when.
Speaker 7: We were like, you know, fifth sixth grade.
Speaker 1: In the summer between the sixth and seventh grade, they
Speaker 1: bought us to brand spanking News, still old twenty sixes,
Speaker 1: and we started bucking up logged by hand. And I
Speaker 1: got my foot broke in the bucket ball and I
Speaker 1: started the seventh grade on my foot in the walking boot.
Speaker 1: The first day of school, I had a brand spanking
Speaker 1: new teacher, and she came from eastern Arkansas. Really what
Speaker 1: it did, and then the whole lot about this way
Speaker 1: of life around here, and.
Speaker 7: She said what do you do to your foot?
Speaker 1: And I said, I was cutting up logs and I
Speaker 1: got one on my foot and I broke it, and
Speaker 1: she said, we mean cutting up logs.
Speaker 7: I said, I was cutting up logs with a chainsaw
Speaker 7: and she.
Speaker 1: Said, you were running the chainsaw and I said, yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 7: Was working in the woods. The rest of the teachers
Speaker 7: around there really wasn't that big of a deal.
Speaker 1: I mean, but they just blew her mind.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 3: Cody points at a bulldozer and starts telling me what
Speaker 3: they've been doing today.
Speaker 6: See that odd right there? Yeah right here, yep, that's new.
Speaker 6: Now that's new.
Speaker 3: So this is your dozer that you carry all over
Speaker 3: the place for cutting roads.
Speaker 6: Now it is. Yeah, he bought this. He bought this
Speaker 6: though last year.
Speaker 3: So the reason tell me why a logger has a dozer.
Speaker 8: Well, we didn't for years, and we've done all of
Speaker 8: the road pushing with them skidter, and we've got a
Speaker 8: little nicer equipment. Now this dozer makes it a whole
Speaker 8: lot better getting a good road in and making good
Speaker 8: bed in there your landing spot for your logs.
Speaker 3: So you may you may have to cut logs in
Speaker 3: a spot way back in somewhere.
Speaker 5: Oh absolutely, and you just got to get.
Speaker 4: A road in there to get your trucks in there, right,
Speaker 4: so you need a dozen.
Speaker 3: So how much of logging is taking care of your equipment?
Speaker 3: Because it's like you didn't work today, but you did work.
Speaker 3: You didn't work, you didn't cut any trees today.
Speaker 8: We didn't make any money today. We had to work today. Yeah,
Speaker 8: you have to maintain your equipment.
Speaker 4: I'll tell you about this truck over.
Speaker 5: Well, let the boss tell you by the truck he drives.
Speaker 5: A truck.
Speaker 4: Cody can tell you about your truck.
Speaker 1: That twenty one twenty twenty one International HX five twenty
Speaker 1: is what that is on.
Speaker 3: The logs that you're hauling shorter, So it's a How
Speaker 3: would you describe that? I mean, it's not like a
Speaker 3: like a semis truck you'd see drive down the road car.
Speaker 4: It's not a trailer truck. Like how big is that
Speaker 4: that bed there?
Speaker 1: I can't tell you the exact mamage much, but I
Speaker 1: can haul two monks of ten of ten and a
Speaker 1: half footers, you know.
Speaker 4: You know ya, you're in the business of the shorter.
Speaker 6: Ten and a half.
Speaker 1: Ten and a half is a is a Well I
Speaker 1: say that, look got some of their twenty one foot
Speaker 1: and you can carry on that truck twenty one foot
Speaker 1: will go on that and then my trailer, my pump
Speaker 1: trailer that hook behind it. It's also a double bump.
Speaker 1: I'm just not a I'm not a traditional tractor with
Speaker 1: a trailer behind it. You can get around butter, you
Speaker 1: can get in and out, but it rigged up like this,
Speaker 1: then you can with a trailer truck. But this is
Speaker 1: just the way we've always done it.
Speaker 3: What what what's the necessary equipment for what you do?
Speaker 3: You need a dozer, you need a truck, you need
Speaker 3: a skitter, and you need kaalin to cut trees.
Speaker 1: That's what we have in all honesty around here. You
Speaker 1: can you can make a living with a skitter period,
Speaker 1: just a skiitter.
Speaker 4: How there's enough Okalon, you mean you're gonna get rid
Speaker 4: of kalin?
Speaker 1: I mean equipment wise, equipment wise, just equipment wise, you
Speaker 1: can get by.
Speaker 4: It'd be really cool if you fired him on as
Speaker 4: you can.
Speaker 1: Get by with just a skinner, because there's enough guys
Speaker 1: around here that have what we call picker trucks.
Speaker 3: Would you say that you guys are doing with newer
Speaker 3: technology but kind of doing the same style of logging
Speaker 3: that your dad and grandpa did.
Speaker 8: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, same thing, just more modernized.
Speaker 4: You're cutting the same kind of trees and.
Speaker 8: Cutting the same yes, cut the same kind of trees, everything,
Speaker 8: the same kind of ground, same places. We we have
Speaker 8: been same tracks of timber that our ancestors cut on.
Speaker 3: So you've you've you guys are have cut tracks of
Speaker 3: timber that your dad and grandpa cut and the trees
Speaker 3: have regrown.
Speaker 1: I can take you to one track the timber that
Speaker 1: I've been on twice in my life, and I'm forty two.
Speaker 3: You might be surprised to learn that the vlines that
Speaker 3: practiced select cut logging since the beginning, they don't like clearcutting.
Speaker 4: And these guys have a land ethic and an.
Speaker 3: Appreciation for trees that the average person will never understand.
Speaker 3: They've witnessed the resilience of natural systems when well managed,
Speaker 3: and they've seen how families use timber for generational financial
Speaker 3: input like cashing out of four one k. I once
Speaker 3: heard an Ozark farmer say he's seen the same stand
Speaker 3: of timber put multiple generations of kids through college. And
Speaker 3: as we know as wildlife managers, select cutting timber can
Speaker 3: be incredible for wildlife To put this login into a
Speaker 3: wider context. The early nineteen hundreds mark the peak of
Speaker 3: America's wooden age, when the demand for lumber exploded alongside
Speaker 3: rapid population growth. By nineteen ten, annual consumption of wood
Speaker 3: peaked at roughly thirty eight billion board feet, and wood was,
Speaker 3: as historian Kennis Smith wrote, second only to food as
Speaker 3: a basic life supporting commodity.
Speaker 4: It was used for nearly everything.
Speaker 3: Wood made all the buildings, railroads, tools, wagons, the frames
Speaker 3: of cars, even and even iron ore production, which relied
Speaker 3: on charcoal to fuel smelters. Around this peak, deforestation spread,
Speaker 3: and that's what we hear about the negative things about logging.
Speaker 3: But this is when Americans began to reckon with the
Speaker 3: cost of unchecked extraction, and the counter movement rooted in
Speaker 3: conservation slowly took hold. In nineteen oh five, Gifford Pinchot
Speaker 3: became the head of the newly formed Forest Service, and
Speaker 3: he brought these European ideas of sustainable forestry to the
Speaker 3: United States and he helped usher in a new philosophy
Speaker 3: of managed forests with the idea.
Speaker 4: Of sustainable yield.
Speaker 3: And since that time, the American forestry industry has revolved
Speaker 3: around regrowth and sustainability. Cody and Kaylin have seen it
Speaker 3: with their own eyes, and wood hasn't gone out of
Speaker 3: style and it never will.
Speaker 4: You guys are.
Speaker 3: Primarily cutting hardwood, regrowth timber.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and where is that? What's that hardwood being used for?
Speaker 8: It's got all kinds of purposes. I mean your good,
Speaker 8: you're good lumber logs. Of course they're they're making that
Speaker 8: the lumber for furniture and flooring. But then there's always
Speaker 8: the time market, and that's for railroad ties, the seven
Speaker 8: be nine railroad tie. And then you have your wallet,
Speaker 8: which you know it's a higher end and white oak,
Speaker 8: I mean, you're good white oak, that's whiskey barrows. That's
Speaker 8: that's where the money that is in the white opening wallet.
Speaker 8: And I mean you've got cherry. Some people even separate
Speaker 8: it because you can get a little more old cherry hickory.
Speaker 8: You can separate it if you want to. We have
Speaker 8: before because they use it for smokers. I mean though
Speaker 8: they just chip it and make smoking chips. But for
Speaker 8: the most part, it's lumber ties, palettes. Everybody benefits from
Speaker 8: the palace because that's what everything's shipped on. I'd say
Speaker 8: there's not anything in the country that don't get put
Speaker 8: on a pallette and chip somewhere.
Speaker 3: This is just what's done with hardwoods and the ozarks.
Speaker 3: But pine timber is primarily what's used in making paper
Speaker 3: and cardboard, at least down here. Just try to go
Speaker 3: through a single day without using paper or cardboard.
Speaker 4: You almost can't. And the good thing.
Speaker 3: About it is that it's biodegradable and you can recycle it,
Speaker 3: and it's generally cleaner than making plastics. Still today, almost
Speaker 3: all residential structures are framed in wood. And this stat
Speaker 3: is a few years old, but the Bureau of Labor
Speaker 3: Statistics saved the average American uses wood and paper products
Speaker 3: equivalent to what can be produced from one hundred foot
Speaker 3: eighteen inch tree every year.
Speaker 4: That's a big old tree.
Speaker 3: But talking about the history of logging, something that stood
Speaker 3: out to me from the first time I heard Kaylen
Speaker 3: say it was that his dad Eddie and uncle Teddy
Speaker 3: and their other brother Hillard. There were actually ten brothers
Speaker 3: and sisters. All of these guys logged with mules and
Speaker 3: horses all the way up until the nineteen nineties.
Speaker 8: Dad and ted they were to my knowledge, I know
Speaker 8: there's still people around that use a horse or mule
Speaker 8: around here. My dad and Ted was the last two
Speaker 8: that I know of that was still using a horse
Speaker 8: and a mule. Because I'll be forty two in just
Speaker 8: a month or so, and I can remember I'm skidding
Speaker 8: with horse and mule. I wasn't big enough to actually
Speaker 8: hel but I went to the woods with them.
Speaker 3: And sort of been in the nineties, nineteen nineties, the
Speaker 3: early nineties. And they weren't They weren't good at to
Speaker 3: try to be folksy or no traditional. No, they did
Speaker 3: it because it's just the way they skid logs.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's just the way it was.
Speaker 8: And I mean they didn't have the money, you know,
Speaker 8: at the time to improve what they were doing, you know,
Speaker 8: so they were still just with the old way, you know,
Speaker 8: that's the only.
Speaker 5: Way they knew.
Speaker 4: And they could make a living doing it. They could,
Speaker 4: and that's all that mattered.
Speaker 5: That's all that mattered.
Speaker 8: Yeah, they could still make a living, but I mean, yeah,
Speaker 8: they wouldn't getting the production that the people was a
Speaker 8: skinner was getting. But they didn't have all the expense either,
Speaker 8: you know, cheaper defeat a mule or horse and it
Speaker 8: was put fuel in a skinner, you know, but they
Speaker 8: they finally had to, you know, if they were going
Speaker 8: to keep up with everybody else, they they got a.
Speaker 3: Got to wear them if they were gonna make a living,
Speaker 3: they had to do this right. Teddy, Eddie and Hillard
Speaker 3: eventually upgraded to a skitter, but they were thirty years
Speaker 3: behind much of the industry. And I think that we'll
Speaker 3: see that this was very much on purpose. These guys
Speaker 3: march to a different drum than the throb of much
Speaker 3: of modern society.
Speaker 4: What about you. Have you ever been hurt bad?
Speaker 5: No, bad enough.
Speaker 8: I've not been late in the hospital like I should
Speaker 8: have been several times. Oh yeah, I've broke bones and
Speaker 8: stitches and cut myself stitches in my head.
Speaker 4: What's like a you have a story like that? I mean,
Speaker 4: it's like a scary story.
Speaker 8: Oh well, I mean I've had lots of scary encounters.
Speaker 8: Usually the ones that don't get you is the scariest ones.
Speaker 8: When you've had tree tops fall out and bury up
Speaker 8: in the ground beside you that you know would have
Speaker 8: killed you, graveyard dead if you you know, we would
Speaker 8: have stepped over twice. I've been hit hard in the head,
Speaker 8: like knocked out, like.
Speaker 4: Knocked out cold.
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, hey, hate to even bring it up, but
Speaker 8: him talking about Frankidale, which Frankdale is my cousin, and
Speaker 8: we lost him a couple of year ago.
Speaker 5: He got killed in the woods.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, I've been been probably three year ago. Frank
Speaker 8: got killed. Be in the woods all his life. Yeah,
Speaker 8: he just like most people around here who logs. You
Speaker 8: can ask him. They got the same story as man Cody.
Speaker 8: You know, they grew up working in the woods. Probably
Speaker 8: had anybody cut any more timber than Frankidale. And yeah,
Speaker 8: that's all they ever did.
Speaker 4: I mean, is that is that something that I mean?
Speaker 3: How many people do you know within kind of arms
Speaker 3: reach of you that have been killed in the woods?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 8: I mean I could name four or five some that
Speaker 8: I didn't know. I mean I knew who they were,
Speaker 8: but didn't know them personally. And you know, some before
Speaker 8: men Coty's time, you know that we're killing the woods.
Speaker 8: Frank Frank is definitely the closest one that we you know,
Speaker 8: somebody we both had worked with and around been running
Speaker 8: all over live.
Speaker 3: But it's clear that this is a way of life
Speaker 3: in these families, especially when Cody and Kaylen were growing up.
Speaker 3: Their dads were making a living off the land, and
Speaker 3: that term is thrown around loosely in modern times.
Speaker 4: But I think you're going to.
Speaker 3: See these men, who are both still alive, had a
Speaker 3: unique version of living off the land.
Speaker 8: Well, Dad's always he's always got his own sayings. I
Speaker 8: guess some people around here call them it isms. But
Speaker 8: Dad always said, the poor man's got poor ways. And
Speaker 8: you know, in the wintertime, same for me and Cody today.
Speaker 8: I mean, it's what we're not working today. You know,
Speaker 8: it's wet in the woods, so we can't work. And Dad,
Speaker 8: you know me growing up, they always had had cows.
Speaker 8: You know, that's extra income. But Dad he'd have to
Speaker 8: get by any way he could, and of course he
Speaker 8: dug Jensan. He coon hunted mostly for the purpose because hides.
Speaker 8: I mean Dad always enjoyed hounds, don't get me wrong,
Speaker 8: but I mean when the hide market went away, he
Speaker 8: didn't coon hunting there like he did, you know.
Speaker 5: And then he trained.
Speaker 8: Horses and mules, you know, just to make enough money
Speaker 8: get by and cut firewood. All my life we were
Speaker 8: cutting firewood for other people. My mom would complain because
Speaker 8: we'd run out of firewood and have to go get
Speaker 8: in snow, but Dad was supplying four or five other
Speaker 8: people with firewood at time. The hard work is yeah,
Speaker 8: all he knew. Dad always said a honest man would
Speaker 8: never get rich, you know, And Dad believed that that
Speaker 8: if you're being honest with everyone, you know, everyone you're
Speaker 8: dealing with, that you'll just make a living. You're not
Speaker 8: gonna get rich, you're not even gonna get ahead, and
Speaker 8: you're just gonna pay the bills. I know that's not
Speaker 8: one hundred percent accord, because I know honest people that's
Speaker 8: done well for the self, But there's a lot of
Speaker 8: truth in it too.
Speaker 3: I recently heard a political analyst, presumably a fairly wealthy one,
Speaker 3: say that they were begin to believe it's impossible to
Speaker 3: be a billionaire without being corrupt. With the outrageous corruption
Speaker 3: that we see in today's America, it's hard not to
Speaker 3: think that thought. It's gonna be easy for me and
Speaker 3: you to keep guessing about that. But Eddie's words are
Speaker 3: worth thinking about. And as a matter of fact, Oh
Speaker 3: Jesus weighed in on the topic too when he said
Speaker 3: it's easier for a camel to fit through the eye
Speaker 3: of a needle than for a rich man to fulfill
Speaker 3: his requirements. I think that would be a gutsy thing
Speaker 3: to say in modern America because it points to a
Speaker 3: flaw in the dominant ethos of this country. I don't
Speaker 3: think that's a license to not work and try to
Speaker 3: better your family, but it'll make you think. I asked
Speaker 3: Caitlin what he thought about this billionaire corruption thesis.
Speaker 5: I would probably have to agree with that.
Speaker 8: They obviously need more to satisfy themselves than Eddy via
Speaker 8: Lines ever had. Dad was content with a good cup
Speaker 8: of coffee and sitting on his back porch. That's what
Speaker 8: he wanted to come home to was peace and quiet,
Speaker 8: have a good dog and a good mule, and he
Speaker 8: was satisfied. Money didn't drive Dad to work.
Speaker 4: Is that the way you are?
Speaker 5: Pretty much?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Do you Are you as content as your dad was?
Speaker 8: Uh?
Speaker 5: Probably not?
Speaker 8: I mean that's just honest. I worry about probably more
Speaker 8: than he ever did. I mean, Dad wasn't a warrior.
Speaker 8: I would like to think I had that same peace
Speaker 8: of mind as Dad's. God, Probably not to that extent.
Speaker 4: No, life's more complex, it is it really it is.
Speaker 8: Yeah, And the more the more you have, the more
Speaker 8: you have to worry. About I mean not saying I
Speaker 8: have that much more than Dad ever had, but I do.
Speaker 8: And it's from wants not needs. Dad never had much,
Speaker 8: but Dad didn't want much either. That just had needs,
Speaker 8: you know, and that was it. And that's what he
Speaker 8: would tell us kids growing up. He said, well, you
Speaker 8: want it or you need it. You know, if it's
Speaker 8: a want, probably not going to happen.
Speaker 5: But if you need it, we'll make it happen.
Speaker 3: The issue here is contentment, not about how much money
Speaker 3: you've got. I think this is interesting as it's compared
Speaker 3: to the context of information that surrounds it. Good luck
Speaker 3: finding a podcast about being content, but you want to
Speaker 3: have any trouble finding one giving you strategies for getting
Speaker 3: rich quick. The fixation that money is the solution to
Speaker 3: all human problems is ancient. However, I think we can
Speaker 3: understand this without taking a vow of poverty. And I
Speaker 3: think it's a biblical mandate to be wise with our finances,
Speaker 3: invest and save. I appreciate the clarity in what Eddie said,
Speaker 3: and I like people that just know who they are.
Speaker 4: Here's more from Kaylin on his upbringing.
Speaker 5: Growing up.
Speaker 8: You know, me and my brother and Cody, we thought
Speaker 8: everybody was like us, you know, just because it was
Speaker 8: his way of life. You know, we didn't know any different.
Speaker 8: We thought we thought every kid, you know, grew up
Speaker 8: going to the woods with their dad, you know, working.
Speaker 8: We didn't know what vacation was. I said, before, you know, Dad,
Speaker 8: he tried to talk us out of it, or for
Speaker 8: for sure me, I mean, well then he he eventually
Speaker 8: did get out of it. But dad say, boys, there's
Speaker 8: no future in it. And he'd say, well, my dad
Speaker 8: said that, you know, so there's not a future in it.
Speaker 8: Find find something else to do. And it's dangerous, you know,
Speaker 8: we always knew that, you know. I grew up watching
Speaker 8: watching you know dad he got hurt. I seen him,
Speaker 8: you know, break a leg and arm and get hitting
Speaker 8: the head, and you know, I knew the danger. But
Speaker 8: it was just the way of life we were. We
Speaker 8: were born into it.
Speaker 3: Caylen's brought us to the topic of danger in the woods.
Speaker 3: In the nineteen nineties, law logging deaths peaked, and it
Speaker 3: was by far the most dangerous industry in America, with
Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty eight deaths per one hundred thousand
Speaker 3: workers per the Bureau of Labor statistics. It's gotten slightly safer,
Speaker 3: with modern numbers between fifty and one hundred deaths per
Speaker 3: one hundred thousand, but has dropped closer to some of
Speaker 3: the other industries. The top five most dangerous jobs in
Speaker 3: America that I could find were loggers, commercial fishermen, roofers,
Speaker 3: small aircraft pilots, and iron workers. Logging has gotten safer
Speaker 3: partly because there are fewer people cutting logs by hand.
Speaker 3: Many large operations have mechanical cutters, but I'll remind you
Speaker 3: that the Lines, along with many others, are basically still
Speaker 3: doing it the same as the nineteen nineties, you know,
Speaker 3: excluding Teddy and Eddy with their mules, they're still cutting
Speaker 3: trees by hand. I want to ask Caylen about getting hurt,
Speaker 3: and you're gonna need to remember the first story that
Speaker 3: Cody told us about when he mentioned a man named
Speaker 3: Frankie Dale. You're gonna want to remember his name.
Speaker 4: Just tell me what you're gonna tell me.
Speaker 1: I mean, Frankidale was just, he was just He's basically
Speaker 1: a legend around here. Nobody there's nobody that don't have
Speaker 1: a frank story, whether it was in the woods, seeing
Speaker 1: him at that gas station there is nobody that doesn't
Speaker 1: have a Frank story.
Speaker 7: And I just got to work with him.
Speaker 6: For several years.
Speaker 5: But he was several years.
Speaker 1: But I had spent the biggest part of my life
Speaker 1: in the woods and I went up for a stretch
Speaker 1: there where I dove truck for a couple of different guys.
Speaker 1: And when I went back to logging, Frankidale was helping
Speaker 1: Dad and I had been there was my whole life.
Speaker 1: I hadn't never seen anybody. I mean, Dad got after
Speaker 1: it cutting timber, got after it went to run, but
Speaker 1: I hadn't never seen nobody as wild as Frankydale.
Speaker 4: What does that mean?
Speaker 6: What did he do?
Speaker 1: I came around to there on the skid one day,
Speaker 1: like I said, It's probably my first week back in
Speaker 1: the woods after I've been trucking, and they were both
Speaker 1: cutting timber and I skidding. And then Dad would haulogs
Speaker 1: and leave me in Frank in the woods and he
Speaker 1: keep cutting. I skidding whatever he's walking out my hand.
Speaker 1: Then I came around the skid trail and I could
Speaker 1: see Frankidale and he was cutting a tree. It wasn't
Speaker 1: a big tree, but I mean it was a decent
Speaker 1: sized little tree.
Speaker 7: And it was in a kind.
Speaker 1: Of a little post dope flat and there wasn't no
Speaker 1: really big timber there, and there's lots of brush. He
Speaker 1: cut that tree and it lodged. He didn't go all
Speaker 1: the way to the ground, you know, it was like
Speaker 1: halfway down on an angle like this. You know, the
Speaker 1: top of it was probably twelve or fifteen feet off
Speaker 1: the ground.
Speaker 6: Frankie Delle cut that tree.
Speaker 1: The tree lodged, and without even thinking about it, without
Speaker 1: even stepping back and looking at it, he just took
Speaker 1: off up that tree limited as he went. And when
Speaker 1: he got up there to where you would top it,
Speaker 1: like normally top it when it was laying on the ground,
Speaker 1: he just ran back and sowed it off. And the
Speaker 1: tree takes off to the ground and frank.
Speaker 9: Just rides it, and right before it hits the ground,
Speaker 9: he steps off and walks over to the next one
Speaker 9: and starts cutting it, just like this is how he
Speaker 9: does it every day.
Speaker 7: And I thought, I mean I knew, you know, you
Speaker 7: hear all.
Speaker 6: The stories about Fredgie Dale got hurt again.
Speaker 7: Fredgiedale's wild, And I was like, oh my god, he
Speaker 7: is wild.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 1: He slowed down a bunch, you know, that he was
Speaker 1: in his prime. I guess you would say then, you know,
Speaker 1: I was twenty whatever, Like I just said, well, go
Speaker 1: he was. We had the same birthday, he was twenty one.
Speaker 3: Years Where did he live from right here, right straight
Speaker 3: across the canyon.
Speaker 4: It was just like a mile from here.
Speaker 6: I mean, he's not.
Speaker 1: As a co fly, he just right over there. He
Speaker 1: was in his forties, so yeah, he was in his
Speaker 1: prime then.
Speaker 5: I don't know all that prime.
Speaker 1: In his forties like me and you, probably he was
Speaker 1: still in Frank was still in good shake, but he
Speaker 1: was yeah, he was wild.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: He died on January twenty first. I'll never forget it.
Speaker 1: And I can tell you right where as that when
Speaker 1: they called me and told me that he had passed
Speaker 1: January twenty first, I think it was three years ago.
Speaker 1: It's twenty three when Frank died.
Speaker 3: This kind of reminds me of these extreme sports guys,
Speaker 3: these rock climbers and free divers that have all had
Speaker 3: friends that have tragically died. But the difference is huge.
Speaker 3: These loggers aren't recreating, but rather they're trying to make
Speaker 3: a living and maybe only the way they know how.
Speaker 5: And Frank was just a guy.
Speaker 1: He had that personality, you know. He was just we
Speaker 1: were cutting one day. Daddy told me, he said, when
Speaker 1: you get down there skitting off Frankidale, he said, watch
Speaker 1: for there. There's an old fence down there. They said,
Speaker 1: don't get across that property line.
Speaker 6: He said, you'll see it. It's an old, old fence.
Speaker 6: He said, it's mark.
Speaker 1: So I come round through there on a skitter and
Speaker 1: the hall gas and all for him on my skittery
Speaker 1: with me and Frank came up through there.
Speaker 6: He was out of gas. I pulled up there and
Speaker 6: shut the skitter off.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, he said something, you know, and
Speaker 1: he said, boy, it's hot or whatever he said. And
Speaker 1: I said, hey, did you find that line down there?
Speaker 1: And without missing the beat, he said, no, But I
Speaker 1: seen a tiger.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 7: He was just that guy.
Speaker 1: He was quick witted and he was he always had
Speaker 1: some little one liner like.
Speaker 6: That, and a lot of it.
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of your a lot of your
Speaker 1: old time loggers, they all kind of had that personality.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 4: Would you see that consistent?
Speaker 3: I mean you you would you would see uh, you
Speaker 3: bet guys that were just characters and storytellers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if you if you left them right
Speaker 1: here and went in any direction, you can. You can
Speaker 1: interview old loggers for days on end, guys that you
Speaker 1: know did it for their lifetime and did it the
Speaker 1: hard way, the hard way. I mean, it's still work.
Speaker 1: We still cut trees down by hand. We still handcut.
Speaker 1: It's still work.
Speaker 2: But I mean what we do now it ain't nothing
Speaker 2: like what it used to be.
Speaker 3: It's clear that these guys had a lot of respect
Speaker 3: for Frankie Dale, a man that used to live about
Speaker 3: a mile from where we're standing. But it just goes
Speaker 3: to show you how dangerous log and can beat. Here's
Speaker 3: more from kaylin.
Speaker 5: Man down there Kingston. We both known over live. He
Speaker 5: actually he watched his father get killed when he that's
Speaker 5: for our time.
Speaker 8: Yeah, he was he was young and was in the
Speaker 8: woods with his dad and watched him get killed. And
Speaker 8: he went ahead and pretty well all his life logged
Speaker 8: after that. And I thought about that. I don't know
Speaker 8: if I could have done that or not.
Speaker 3: Is there a in some things? When you're in it
Speaker 3: long enough, you know the risks. And if you heard
Speaker 3: that somebody died, you could have probably almost guessed what
Speaker 3: happened with the kind of logging you guys do. If
Speaker 3: you heard that someone died, would you pretty much would
Speaker 3: you be like eighty percent chance a tree top fell
Speaker 3: on him or eighty percent chance a log t boned?
Speaker 4: Like what would you say?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 8: Yeah, absolutely depend on who it was, you know, if
Speaker 8: I knew, if I knew it was the timber cutter.
Speaker 5: Yeah I could.
Speaker 4: What would it be? What would happen?
Speaker 8: It would be it'd be a limb falling out or
Speaker 8: a tree.
Speaker 3: Top limb that you can't that you aren't watching right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: so you're cutting trees and like it breaks the limb,
Speaker 3: like I described for them, what would happen?
Speaker 8: No, it could be it could be in the tree,
Speaker 8: the tree even cutting and you not see it. I
Speaker 8: mean a lot of that depends on the time of year. Yeah,
Speaker 8: I always I would a whole lot rather cut in
Speaker 8: the wintertime when the leaves are off and you can
Speaker 8: you can see for sure, big timber, big timber. In
Speaker 8: the summertime, so many leaves, you can't. You can't see
Speaker 8: what I was up there. And if you don't, you know,
Speaker 8: if you don't take your time and pay attention, just
Speaker 8: even grape vines, you know, from one tree to another. Well,
Speaker 8: jerk a limb out from a tree behind you, you know,
Speaker 8: or a dead snag. That's what's you know. I've been
Speaker 8: hit once or twice. Once when I got stitches in
Speaker 8: my head and got knocked out. It was actually a
Speaker 8: snag that was behind me, and I already had the
Speaker 8: tree on the ground and was back. Then we marked
Speaker 8: them as we went, We marked the logs, and I
Speaker 8: was on my second log just marking it and it
Speaker 8: was like somebody walked up behind me with a baseball
Speaker 8: bat and hitting right up over the head and it
Speaker 8: was it had come from a tree behind me, A
Speaker 8: top broke out up, a dead snag. But there's I mean,
Speaker 8: there's there's dangering all of it.
Speaker 3: I mean, but it's rarely like when you're cutting a
Speaker 3: tree that falls on you, because I mean the tree
Speaker 3: you're cutting, you're paying attention to.
Speaker 8: It's it's it's rare, but but I've seen it.
Speaker 3: I want to queue you up for this next story. Honestly,
Speaker 3: it's the reason I'm here. Last fall, when Caitlin and
Speaker 3: I were driving down the road going bear hunting, he
Speaker 3: told me a story that I'll never forget. All of
Speaker 3: this has really led us to hear.
Speaker 8: Oh, it's been seven six seven year ago now, and
Speaker 8: me and Cody weren't working together. We were actually I
Speaker 8: had my own crew or working with another guy, and
Speaker 8: all our buddy was working with us.
Speaker 5: He got he got mashed and well he got killed.
Speaker 8: But good Lord wasn't done with him, because I know,
Speaker 8: I've told you four the difference between praying and begging,
Speaker 8: and I was begging and I've seen life be brought
Speaker 8: back into him.
Speaker 5: But he was.
Speaker 8: He was mashed by a tree that he was cutting.
Speaker 8: It had actually jumped off the stump which he had
Speaker 8: cut up about chest tie. It's a forgard sycamore. I mean,
Speaker 8: it wasn't no monster sycamore, but it was. It was
Speaker 8: probably twenty four inches or better.
Speaker 5: And the time.
Speaker 8: I got there, I actually I was supposed to be
Speaker 8: cutting that morning and was Ethan's his name.
Speaker 5: He he was wanting.
Speaker 8: To cut that morning, and I gave in let him cut,
Speaker 8: and I ran the skinner him Paul. Both were cutting,
Speaker 8: and I had made I know for sure two trips
Speaker 8: to Paul. Normally, if you're skiped behind two cutters, you'll
Speaker 8: just rotate, You'll you'll go to one and then go
Speaker 8: back to the other mostly I mean to stay up
Speaker 8: with them, but to check on I mean, that's always
Speaker 8: in your mind, you.
Speaker 6: Know, check on them.
Speaker 5: Well I didn't.
Speaker 8: I didn't go back to Ethan. I went back to
Speaker 8: Paul Claisse and I was headed back and I seen
Speaker 8: Paul come run around the hill, and I knew immediately
Speaker 8: something was bad wrong, so I hurried more than normal.
Speaker 8: And when I got to that sycamore, I mean, like
Speaker 8: it's been seven years ago, it feels like yesterday because
Speaker 8: I can still see it. All I could see was
Speaker 8: Ethan's boots barely sticking out, and the whole the whole
Speaker 8: tree was on him and wasn't at the butt.
Speaker 5: It had actually went over him.
Speaker 8: He was probably fifteen feet back up back up that tree,
Speaker 8: but just his boots is sticking out. And I backed
Speaker 8: up there with the skittering which we use a grapple skitter,
Speaker 8: and I unched down and pinched that tree the best
Speaker 8: I could, but out do any more damage, and picked
Speaker 8: it up off of him and drove forward. Of course, Paul,
Speaker 8: he went straight to him, and I can I can
Speaker 8: still hear Paul scream. And he threw that chainsaw as
Speaker 8: far as he could throw it, and I shut skitter off,
Speaker 8: and he said he's dead, and of course you're just sick.
Speaker 8: And I had no doubt. I mean I could see
Speaker 8: from off the skitter. I thought there's no way.
Speaker 5: He could be alive.
Speaker 8: Well, we were down in underneath the hill and Paul
Speaker 8: he just took off, running to get out, to go
Speaker 8: get service to call, and I got off and went
Speaker 8: to Ethan and I got down and checked him, and
Speaker 8: sure enough, I mean, there's no life in him. He
Speaker 8: was even cold. We don't know how long he's been there.
Speaker 5: It is a thing. Paul had just shut his saw off.
Speaker 8: He got just kind of he had that feeling and
Speaker 8: shut his saw off, and he could hear Ethan sauw idland,
Speaker 8: but you know he would and running it. But he
Speaker 8: can hear that chainsaw around there, just idling. So he
Speaker 8: went to check on.
Speaker 5: Him, and I checked him. He's already he's cold.
Speaker 8: I mean, of course wasn't breathing, but I checked for
Speaker 8: a pulse and there's no life in him. And you know,
Speaker 8: poor old dumb lagger, I don't know CPR nothing. That's
Speaker 8: to afraid to touch him anyway. I don't know what
Speaker 8: kind of damage it was I've done the one thing
Speaker 8: I know how to do, and that's that's pray. And
Speaker 8: I turned my back to him. I don't know why
Speaker 8: I've done that, but I turned my back to him.
Speaker 5: Sorry, And I begged.
Speaker 8: I got done on my knees and put my face
Speaker 8: to the ground and I begged and bleeded because I
Speaker 8: knew that's all all I could do for him. And
Speaker 8: we say, that's all I can do for him. That
Speaker 8: should be the first thing we go to But and
Speaker 8: I don't know how long. It seemed like forever, but
Speaker 8: probably wasn't. Just a man or two, and I heard
Speaker 8: him take a breath, deep breath, sucked their back in,
Speaker 8: and I turned around went to him, and it was
Speaker 8: just shadow breathing, but he was breathing. And right then
Speaker 8: I said, well, I know the one who can take breath,
Speaker 8: but he can also give breath back. Of course, it
Speaker 8: seemed like forever before the analyst got there, and I
Speaker 8: noticed he had blood under his head and they wouldn't
Speaker 8: let me move him forever. I told him, I said,
Speaker 8: he's bleeding outside of his head. I want to stick
Speaker 8: my hand then there, and they said, well, we'll we'll
Speaker 8: let you help us put him on this backboard and
Speaker 8: I run my hand underneath his head, and when I
Speaker 8: rolled him over, his ear wasn't completely off, but it
Speaker 8: was off enough it it stuck to my hand when
Speaker 8: I rolled him over kind of peeled off. But that
Speaker 8: was a rough day. But I'll never forget.
Speaker 3: After being in the hospital for an extended period of time,
Speaker 3: Ethan would live and would later even go back into logging.
Speaker 4: I appreciate Caylin telling that story.
Speaker 3: A man makes himself vulnerable when he says he's seen
Speaker 3: a man come back to life. Calin doesn't just believe
Speaker 3: that God answered the prayer and spared this man's life.
Speaker 4: He knows that he did.
Speaker 5: I believe God lets you live through things.
Speaker 8: Not to keep to yourself. I mean something like that.
Speaker 8: You have to you have to tell it, you have
Speaker 8: to share it, because if it wasn't for him, none
Speaker 8: of us would be here. And I've always said I
Speaker 8: don't know, I don't know how a man in our
Speaker 8: business could live without God. You know, a nonbeliever the
Speaker 8: day these days that even I still get scared, you know,
Speaker 8: been all my life. But I mean, if I didn't
Speaker 8: have God to depend on, I couldn't do it. It's
Speaker 8: just it's too dangerous.
Speaker 3: I can't thank you enough for listening to Bear Grease.
Speaker 3: On the next episode, we'll meet Teddy Valais, one of
Speaker 3: the men who started all of this for Cody and
Speaker 3: Kaylin and I can tell you he's one of a kind.
Speaker 3: If you've enjoyed this podcast, please share Bear Grease with
Speaker 3: a friend this week. We really appreciate you listening. Brent
Speaker 3: Lake and I thank you keep the wild places wild
Speaker 3: because that's where the bears live.