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Speaker 1: Truth plus Media. You said, I'm not gonna be surprised

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Speaker 1: by anything that Dwayne Wade is there.

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Speaker 2: You can say the same thing for Ron Artest.

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Speaker 3: I mean, defensively he is a monster, we all know that.

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Speaker 4: But offensively he's here putting on the show.

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Speaker 3: Against Watch Greggie Miller. He got around it.

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Speaker 2: Pick here's the three got it. Jermaine O'Neill may not

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Speaker 2: yet be the best player in the NBA, but he's

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Speaker 2: playing like the best in the league right now. Eight

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Speaker 2: straight double doubles have led the Pacers to five straight wins.

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Speaker 2: Number seven looks to erase some bad memories against Orlando

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Speaker 2: or on.

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Speaker 3: The shot clock.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if Gullups knows that he lost a handle.

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Speaker 2: Good play, Reggie Miller, better's blocked a gato? Fuck got

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Speaker 2: did Pritch get there?

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Speaker 1: The year was two thousand and four and the Indiana

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Speaker 1: Pacers were the best team in the NBA. They had

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Speaker 1: a funky collection of players centered around Ron Our Tests

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Speaker 1: and Jermaine O'Neil, and they fueled the Pacers to a

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Speaker 1: franchise best sixty one wins. This group is most known

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Speaker 1: for starring in the infamous Malice of the Palace, but

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Speaker 1: what's forgotten about this group is that they were destined

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Speaker 1: for championships. This is Forgotten Seasons, a show that sheds

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Speaker 1: light on the underappreciated players, teams, and moments in NBA history.

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Speaker 1: I'm Dylan Dreyfus, and on this episode we're talking to

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Speaker 1: Metas sandiford Our Tests, formerly known as ron Our Tests,

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Speaker 1: a Champion, All Star and one of the best defenders

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Speaker 1: in NBA history. We're going back to two thousand and

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Speaker 1: three to relive this PACER's historic season. There's a ton

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Speaker 1: of history from this year. We've got Defensive Player of

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Speaker 1: the Year roun Our Test, MVP candidate Jermaine O'Neil, head Honcho,

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Speaker 1: Larry Bird, and a lot more. I'm Dylan Dreyfus. This

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Speaker 1: is Forgotten Seasons. The story the two thousand and four

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Speaker 1: Pacers with Metas sandafford Our Test starts now. All right, welcome,

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Speaker 1: everybody we have metis sandiford Our Test here, a very

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Speaker 1: special guest and earlier an early follower of forgut On Seasons.

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Speaker 3: Meta.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for joining. How are you doing?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely everything's good. Everything's good, man, see you guys doing

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Speaker 4: great things.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 1: We're happy to happy to have you here and even

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Speaker 1: more excited to get into that Pacer squad. On my

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Speaker 1: Instagram as I sort of ask, you know, my followers

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Speaker 1: the teams that they really like and think are forgotten,

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Speaker 1: this one is always at the center of attention. People

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Speaker 1: love you, they love Jermaine, they love Reggie. So I

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Speaker 1: guess just to give a little bit of context of

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Speaker 1: this season. So this season, you guys won sixty one games,

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Speaker 1: the most in Pacers franchise history, a thirteen win improvement

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Speaker 1: from the year before. So I sort of want to

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Speaker 1: do a breakdown of how this roster came about. So

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Speaker 1: first starting with you, right, you get traded from Chicago

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and two, and then the other half

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Speaker 1: of the primary duo is Jermaine O'Neil, who gets traded

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Speaker 1: in two thousand. I'm curious as to, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: this season, how you guys were able to improve this

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Speaker 1: much and what changed because you had the same core

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Speaker 1: sort of in two thousand and two two thousand and

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Speaker 1: three first round exits. Obviously, this year you have Larry

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Speaker 1: Bird coming back into the picture as the executive. One

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Speaker 1: of his first moves, which I always thought was pretty funny,

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Speaker 1: is getting rid of Isaiah Thomas and instilling Rick Carlisle

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Speaker 1: as the coach. So in your mind, like this year, right,

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Speaker 1: thirteen win improvement, what changes to really change you guys

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Speaker 1: from a middle of the pack team to one of

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Speaker 1: the best teams, maybe the best team in the league.

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Speaker 4: I just think we just was growing. I mean Jermaine

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Speaker 4: was twenty four years old. I was twenty three. Al

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Speaker 4: Hamilton just got moved, which was kind of We got

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Speaker 4: Steve Jackson, so obviously that was a big pick up.

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Speaker 4: The year before that, I mean we was rolling and

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Speaker 4: then we came back.

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Speaker 3: I mean we was in a gym in the summertime,

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Speaker 3: working hard. I mean my.

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Speaker 4: That that year actually, I mean I was only averaging

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Speaker 4: eighteen points total that year, but my defense was really good.

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Speaker 3: I spent a lot of energy on defense.

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Speaker 4: You know, I think I could have maybe averaged twenty

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Speaker 4: plus if I wasn't playing so much defense.

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Speaker 3: But you know, it was.

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Speaker 4: Everybody sacrifice. Everybody was extremely smart. Practices was really intense.

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Speaker 4: You know, guys was working extremely hard for the practice.

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Speaker 4: You know, like guys like Jeff Foster was, you know,

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Speaker 4: he he brung it in practice every single day, and

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Speaker 4: you know, trying to rebound against him, different things like that.

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Speaker 4: You know, it was really difficult trying to score against him.

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Speaker 4: Jeff Foster never ever let you get an open layup.

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Speaker 4: You know, when you go to the basket against Jeff

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Speaker 4: Jeff Foster in practice, I mean, you either got to

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Speaker 4: take it or you're gonna have to be ready to fight,

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Speaker 4: you know, because you know he was hammering and you

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Speaker 4: and he did it to everyone. Then you had like

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Speaker 4: Fred Jones came in that year and he played well.

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Speaker 4: Fred Jones a really good defender in practice, and he

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Speaker 4: was starting to play better. Jamal Tinsley was Jamal tins

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Speaker 4: was amazing point guard, and we had an amazing second guard.

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Speaker 3: We had three great guards.

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Speaker 4: And that year we had Jameson Brewer and we had

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Speaker 4: Anthony Johnson. And yeah, Anthony Johnson was really really impressive.

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Speaker 4: He was he was just really really good and he

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Speaker 4: sacrificed a lot. He was better than what people probably

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Speaker 4: saw of him.

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Speaker 3: You know, he was. He was really good.

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Speaker 4: He could shoot that mid range, he could bring the

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Speaker 4: ball up the floor, he could attack, he could he

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Speaker 4: could jump, he could defend. You know, so when you

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Speaker 4: add all that together, you know, sometimes you know you

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Speaker 4: might get the two best players getting most of the shine.

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Speaker 4: But you know, we had a squad. If you take

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Speaker 4: any one of those guys away from that team, you know,

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Speaker 4: maybe we don't win sixty one games. Maybe we win sixty.

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Speaker 4: He took another one. Maybe we win fifty eight. He

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Speaker 4: took another one, Maybe we win fifty.

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Speaker 3: You know. It was like, you know those guys, you

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Speaker 3: know they brung it every day.

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Speaker 1: No, yeah, that's great to hear. I think at one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent was a very complete team. One guy that

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Speaker 1: you didn't mention there, which who I'm curious. You know

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Speaker 1: his role in the team was Reggie Miller. Obviously, you

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Speaker 1: know mister pacer in the nineties. He's older at this point,

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Speaker 1: I think, like thirty seven thirty eight years old, but

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Speaker 1: he's still really good. He's still really effective. Speak a

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Speaker 1: little bit about you know, Reggie as the player, but

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Speaker 1: also what was Reggie like sort of in the locker room?

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Speaker 1: Was he the voice of the team, the leader? Shed

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Speaker 1: a little light onto him?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Reggie, Reggie was. I think Jermaine and Reggie co

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Speaker 4: led those teams. I might have been like a spiritual,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, a leader or something like that, emotional something,

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Speaker 4: but Reggie and Jamaine co led those teams. And you know,

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Speaker 4: Reggie's more voice of reason and focus and confident. He

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Speaker 4: just build your confidence up, Reggie, Just build your confidence up.

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Speaker 3: Man.

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Speaker 4: It just makes you feel like you're better than what

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Speaker 4: you are. And then and Jamaine was a guy who

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Speaker 4: was a seasoned leader. He was a natural born leader,

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Speaker 4: very very tough, a winner. Brung it in practice. So

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Speaker 4: sometimes Jamaine was hurt sometimes in practice. So you know,

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Speaker 4: he was tall, and you know, so you know, the

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Speaker 4: bigger guys normally, you know, they get hurt at times.

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Speaker 4: But in practice he would bring it. He was an

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Speaker 4: extreame hard worker and in the weight room he would

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Speaker 4: bring it. Ah, so that you know that combination was

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Speaker 4: just lethal.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, I think Jermaine is definitely one of the forgotten

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Speaker 1: legends of the two thousands. Forgotten legend. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think a modern big man in a way too. He

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Speaker 1: had that that mid range jumper, and if he was

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Speaker 1: playing now, I feel like he probably moved out to

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Speaker 1: the three point line pretty easily if he had that that.

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Speaker 4: So I don't know, I don't know I Jamaine moved

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Speaker 4: out to the three point line. But I just think

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Speaker 4: he plays very well in this era. You know, I

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Speaker 4: mean he's he's mobile, he can block shots, he could defend,

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Speaker 4: and he can shoot, he can pass, he can handle.

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Speaker 3: Jermaine had a handle. Jermaine had a handle.

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Speaker 1: He's smooth. He's like a real smooth big man. Coordinates.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, very very smooth.

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Speaker 1: And then so what I'm also curious about is the

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Speaker 1: transition going from Isaiah Thomas as the coach to Rick Carlisle.

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Speaker 1: Can you sort of compare a little bit like what

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Speaker 1: it was like playing for Isaiah and then how sort

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Speaker 1: of Rick came in, because you know, Rick still in

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Speaker 1: the league hopefully about to win a first around playoff series.

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Speaker 1: What was the transition like for you going from one

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Speaker 1: coach to the other, and how did their styles sort

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Speaker 1: of differ.

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Speaker 3: A little different.

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Speaker 4: You know, Isaiah been through more than coach carl out

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Speaker 4: in terms of a player, So Isaiah led the show

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Speaker 4: a little more.

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Speaker 3: Isaiah was.

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Speaker 4: When Isaiah coached, he was coaching more of a feel

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Speaker 4: of the game.

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Speaker 1: Like a player.

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Speaker 3: Almost, Oh, definitely like a player. And we were we

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Speaker 3: were good, we were winning. They had great methods.

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Speaker 4: When Carlile was coaching, he definitely leaned on his staff.

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Speaker 3: A lot uhh.

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Speaker 4: And he really focused on the X and the ohs,

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Speaker 4: you know, the fundamentals, which is really important. X and

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Speaker 4: OS is so important. He is really really good at that.

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Speaker 4: And he's really good at not only doing X and

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Speaker 4: o os as a buzzwordy, but doing X and o's

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Speaker 4: in a way where when he's running to play, if

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Speaker 4: you do exactly what you need to do everyone to

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Speaker 4: be successful, the team is gonna win.

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Speaker 3: Obviously, the top two players, the top three players are

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Speaker 3: gonna they're gonna score, but you'll win, you know.

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Speaker 4: So it was a little bit difficult playing under X

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Speaker 4: and o's, like every possession that that.

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Speaker 3: I found that hard.

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Speaker 4: Uh but we won, yeah, you know, and and and

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Speaker 4: Rick is really good at identifying, you know, uh hm,

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Speaker 4: skill levels of players and putting them in position to

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Speaker 4: be successful.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: He liked me on He liked me on the right block,

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Speaker 4: and then he also liked me coming off iverson cut

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Speaker 4: mm hmmm.

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Speaker 3: Across the freakuel line the right of the lists, yeah,

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Speaker 3: right to left.

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Speaker 4: And I didn't like that play because it was just

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Speaker 4: like I wasn't used to it, but he saw that

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Speaker 4: it was going to work, and I hated doing that

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Speaker 4: sometimes but I was averaging eighteens and my average went up.

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Speaker 4: So he was putting me in position, and he was

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Speaker 4: like moving the offense the defense.

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Speaker 3: He's moving the defense in a way where he could

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Speaker 3: be successful.

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Speaker 4: So I mean a lot of little tricks that were

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Speaker 4: called out got that I really like. And I also

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Speaker 4: I used some of his strategies when I'm coaching.

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Speaker 3: Nice. Nice.

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Speaker 1: And then another guy that came back into the picture

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Speaker 1: this year, another legend is Larry Bird. What was your

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Speaker 1: relationship like with him and what like? Was he very

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Speaker 1: present with the team in practices and in games or

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Speaker 1: did he sort of like do his own thing up top?

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Speaker 4: Larry was Larry was present, especially if you leaned on him,

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Speaker 4: if you asked him some questions.

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Speaker 3: Like I was like, I didn't care. I was in

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Speaker 3: school and I always like raising my hand, So I

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Speaker 3: was like, Larry, I would love you.

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Speaker 4: To teach me some stuff. And he used to come

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Speaker 4: down every day. I kind of he used to come

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Speaker 4: down every day and practice with me. At least at

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Speaker 4: least eighty percent of the.

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Speaker 3: Time I was in the gym in the summertime.

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Speaker 4: I gotta say eighty percent of the time Larry Bird

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Speaker 4: was in the gym, and he's the reason why him

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Speaker 4: and Chuck Person together, they did the reasons why you know,

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Speaker 4: my my average went up my you know, individually, those

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Speaker 4: guys are the reasons why I got better. At the time,

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Speaker 4: I thought it was just me, but I look back

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Speaker 4: at it, you know it was those guys, you know,

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Speaker 4: because after I left those guys, I was still playing well.

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Speaker 4: But it was most of the things that they taught me,

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Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying, Most of the things that

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Speaker 4: they taught me, I would have stayed with Indiana. Man,

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Speaker 4: average a lot of points, a lot of points.

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Speaker 1: Is there one thing that you can remember now, just

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Speaker 1: like well, it doesn't have to be like the best

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Speaker 1: example of but one example of something that Larry taught

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Speaker 1: you that you sort of carried uh with you for

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Speaker 1: the rest of your career.

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Speaker 3: Man, Well, we.

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Speaker 4: Didn't spend a lot of like personal lunchtime, but on

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Speaker 4: the court, he taught me how to attack. He taught

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Speaker 4: me how to attack the basket, and he taught me

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Speaker 4: how to be a consistent shooter. Yeah, you know, within

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Speaker 4: one year, So I mixed, I mixed a human Chuck Person.

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Speaker 4: But speaking about you know bird, you know, his his

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Speaker 4: his his methods on attack in the basket it's really

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Speaker 4: to me, second to none. As you can see, liker

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Speaker 4: Berry wasn't the most athletic.

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Speaker 3: Or he wasn't the fastest person, but he would get.

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Speaker 1: Buckets, buckets, buckets, buckets his buckets.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So we talked a little bit about, you know, the

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Speaker 1: construction of the team and the pacers. But I sort

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Speaker 1: of want to take a wide lens now and look

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Speaker 1: at the league as a whole, and you specifically as

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Speaker 1: this year the premier defender in the league. I'm curious

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Speaker 1: free you who were some of the guys. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: have to be this year exactly, but you know, in

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Speaker 1: the mid two thousands, uh, for you as a defender,

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Speaker 1: who are the guys that you one looked forward to

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Speaker 1: to going up against the most and too maybe the

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Speaker 1: guys that gave you some trouble sometimes on offense, Yeah, when.

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Speaker 4: You were on the defensive end on and so I

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Speaker 4: mean when Lebron came into the league, I was really

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Speaker 4: excited about that matchup because I knew he was going

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Speaker 4: to be great.

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Speaker 3: And then Kobe. I didn't get a chance to see

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Speaker 3: Kobe much.

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Speaker 4: I would I would have rip my brother Kobe I

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Speaker 4: would have loved to see Kobe Moore, but I was

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Speaker 4: on the east, he was on the west.

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Speaker 3: But I knew he was one of those guys, you know,

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Speaker 3: the Paul Pais.

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Speaker 4: We had that little rivalry with Boston, Indiana, a short,

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Speaker 4: short lived rivalry. It wasn't it wasn't nothing big, but

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Speaker 4: it could have been big.

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Speaker 3: Then we have Rip Hamilton was a very good off

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Speaker 3: the ball player.

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Speaker 4: So although he wasn't like uh Dwane Wade in terms

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Speaker 4: of ball in hand, he was like anyway in the

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Speaker 4: half court. Yeah, you know, Verb Hamilton is a gown

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Speaker 4: the fire Hall of Fame. I always look forward to

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Speaker 4: guarding him because he was one of the toughest guys

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Speaker 4: that I had to guard. I got to Iverson a

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Speaker 4: little bit, not much, but that was just He's just

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Speaker 4: not my position. But I always look forward to that

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Speaker 4: one because anytime you're below the power forward position and

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Speaker 4: you're the best player on the floor, and then I

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Speaker 4: was going to probably wind up on you. I did

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Speaker 4: have to guard iverson On. I think I had one

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Speaker 4: successful game against Iverson.

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Speaker 1: When he was in Philly.

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Speaker 4: When he was in Philly, I think I had one

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Speaker 4: successful game against him. I think he had like seventeen

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Speaker 4: or thirteen and stuff like that. But then we have

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Speaker 4: in that well, in that area, Jamal Mashburn was just

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Speaker 4: he was exit exited in his prime, so he was

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Speaker 4: still good. Glenn Robinson was exiting his prime.

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Speaker 3: Feel good.

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Speaker 4: Bigger guys, Yeah, bigger guys. Those guys were playing well.

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Speaker 4: But Shaun Lennon was was exiting his prime. You know,

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Speaker 4: there was some guys in the league that was really

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Speaker 4: solid players that I was, you know, I mean, wow,

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Speaker 4: these guys are good. And then Latrell skrewill Allan Houston.

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Speaker 4: Those guys were exiting their prime, you know. But so

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Speaker 4: for me, I mean, those are great players, you know,

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Speaker 4: in ninety nine and two thousand and two thousand and two.

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Speaker 4: So at that time, you know, I was immersing as

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Speaker 4: you know, the best wing defender. I think I was

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Speaker 4: the best wing defender at that time because every other

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Speaker 4: wing defender at that time there was not averaging twenty points.

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Speaker 4: I was averaging twenty and I was locking up.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I was the best wing defender at that time.

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Speaker 1: No, Yeah, it's funny much that I mean, it's probably

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Speaker 1: you know you I'm thinking perimeter like Bruce Bowen, uh

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Speaker 1: but yeah, but there they were. They were role guys.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they were good guys. It's just that, you know,

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Speaker 4: when you look when you talk about what the things

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Speaker 4: I had to do. I had to you know, had

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Speaker 4: to command double teams, had to get buckets, and I

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Speaker 4: had to lock up and I and I like doing

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Speaker 4: it and I did it right.

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Speaker 3: So I was like, you did it.

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Speaker 4: If I would have just played defense, you know what

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Speaker 4: I'm saying. Mh, well, just played offense and no defense,

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Speaker 4: and it would have been the way around, the other

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Speaker 4: way around.

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Speaker 1: No, Well, I feel like it's definitely once you get

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Speaker 1: it the both ways going, that's you know, and that

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Speaker 1: reign supreme in your mind. I mean, you mentioned you

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Speaker 1: devoted most of your effort towards the defense. Uh, what

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Speaker 1: was your greatest strength as a defender, you know, whether

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Speaker 1: it be the physical aspect, the mental aspect, what was what?

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Speaker 3: What did you.

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Speaker 1: Bring that you felt the most confident in your defense?

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Speaker 3: I felt like I was physical, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 4: So being physical, I just I just felt like nobody

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Speaker 4: can really handle handle that.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: I was I was the fastest, I was definitely the strongest,

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Speaker 4: but I wasn't the fastest I was carrying In two

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Speaker 4: thousand and three, I was carrying two.

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Speaker 3: Fifty.

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Speaker 4: Then after that was carrying too sixty. So that's another

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Speaker 4: reason why I think I was the best defender, because

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Speaker 4: these guys were two twenty five, two fifteen. You know,

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Speaker 4: it's easy to be quick when you're two fifteen. You know,

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Speaker 4: try being quick when you're two fifty and two sixty.

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Speaker 4: I mean, so it's just it was just impossible for me,

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Speaker 4: you know, to stay in front of guys that were

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Speaker 4: one hundred and ninety pounds or two hundred and five pounds,

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Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: But but I did it. Well, you did it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you were named Defensive Player of the Year.

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Speaker 1: You are one of five players under the age of

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Speaker 1: twenty five to win it. You, Jordan, Alvin, Robertson, Dwight

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Speaker 1: and Kawhi so company. We are company for you. So

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Speaker 1: we did a little bit about the the around the league. Now,

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to get into the season. You guys

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Speaker 1: win sixty one games, the number three defense in the league,

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Speaker 1: the number one seed, uh, and then we sort of

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Speaker 1: head into the playoffs. How is the messaging different this

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Speaker 1: year or is it different compared to the previous two

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Speaker 1: years when you guys were maybe coming in as a

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Speaker 1: six or a five seed. What is the messaging going

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Speaker 1: into the playoffs and who is leading that that messaging?

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, I think Jermaine was definitely the leader.

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Speaker 4: I was like a big energy guy, but energy guy.

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Speaker 4: I got buckets. I guess the energy guy who just

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Speaker 4: got energy. But I was a big energy guy. So

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Speaker 4: in practice, like I wanted to be the hardest worker

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Speaker 4: and that's what I dedicated in my practices too. Jamay

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Speaker 4: was like the vocal leader. Reggie was the veteran. Just

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Speaker 4: watched Reggie, you know, pay attention to what Reggie's doing.

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Speaker 4: Reggie Reggie kind of like Kobe in since a guy

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Speaker 4: that's going to show improved, you know, very very similar

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Speaker 4: to Kobe. You know, Derek Fisher was the the vocal leader,

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Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying. So you know that being said, yeah,

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Speaker 4: that's that's how we were going into the playoffs. We

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Speaker 4: just we wanted to win the title, no question about it,

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Speaker 4: but we never was there, we never experienced it.

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Speaker 3: So all we focus on was winning one game at

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Speaker 3: a time. That's what Jamaine would saying.

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Speaker 4: And Jamain actually led us to that that that year

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Speaker 4: because Jamaine said, Jermaine said, let's win three out of

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Speaker 4: never never lose three in a row, and do not

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Speaker 4: lose two in a row, but never ever lose three.

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Speaker 1: In a row is not a good thing.

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Speaker 4: And then he wanted to win like he wanted to

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Speaker 4: win three out of four and three out of every

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Speaker 4: five games or three out of every four games. And

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Speaker 4: we were just doing that, and we was and Jermaine

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Speaker 4: actually came up with that strategy to keep things focused.

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Speaker 4: Jamaine is Jermaine is a really impressive guy, you know.

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Speaker 4: You know, to to this day, I still look I

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Speaker 4: still look up to him because he always was there.

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Speaker 3: I remember him.

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Speaker 4: Being just such an amazing leader. I could talk about

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Speaker 4: him all day. But I think I think he was

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Speaker 4: definitely the guy.

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Speaker 1: I mean to be the guy in a locker room

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Speaker 1: in a franchise with Reggie Miller and Larry Bird. You

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Speaker 1: know that that definitely speaks volume. So sort of heading

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Speaker 1: into the playoffs, you guys get the Celtics in the

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Speaker 1: first round. They had knocked you out. I believe the

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Speaker 1: previous two years you said that there was a little

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Speaker 1: bit of rivalry there. You actually lock up Paul Pierce.

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Speaker 1: He shoots thirty four percent from the field. Paul Pierce

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Speaker 1: is another guy, bigger guy, not the quickest, not you know,

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Speaker 1: the strongest, but sort of a unique game herky jerky.

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Speaker 1: What's the mindset like for you when you're matching up

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Speaker 1: across from Paul Pierce? What are you trying to force

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Speaker 1: him to do? What can you not let him do?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 4: I think, you know, Paul Pierce probably could I coult

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Speaker 4: Paul pissed off guard the same rate Lebron caught me

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Speaker 4: off guard, Meaning how are you going to run into

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Speaker 4: a guy that's two fifty two fifty five playing a

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Speaker 4: small forward position, that's strong like a sinner and pretty

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Speaker 4: quick and like Lebron came into the league, like, how

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Speaker 4: do you play against a guy two sixty who.

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Speaker 3: Was fast and can jump and everything?

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Speaker 4: Like how do you prepare for that? Unless you're doing

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Speaker 4: it preparing since he was twelve? So you know, I

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Speaker 4: think what Paul, I just caught him off guard as

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Speaker 4: a player. I don't think he ever seenor defender. He

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Speaker 4: was always the bigger guy, you know, and then and

439
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 4: then to go up against me, he had to actually, uh,

440
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 4: you had to be strong unless you was rip Hamilton

441
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,399
Speaker 4: and just usually speed. You know, if you if you

442
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 4: wasn't fast, I ripped, then you had to go to

443
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 4: your strengths, which were which were my strengths. So I think,

444
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 4: you know, that's where Paul and I kind of clashed

445
00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 4: that And when you look at Paul, I think his

446
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 4: game evolved. I think he got better because over and

447
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 4: then after I would play against Paul.

448
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 3: Uh.

449
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 4: You know, after that season, I saw that he was

450
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 4: getting better. You know, I saw he must have been

451
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 4: doing something in the gym, you know. Uh, Paul's one

452
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 4: of those guys where it probably came really easy to him,

453
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 4: you know, Hall of Famer, big time shot maker, you know,

454
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 4: but he was one of those guys where you know,

455
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 4: it's some guys are great and then some guys that

456
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 4: want to be great. I was one of the guys

457
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,199
Speaker 4: that wanted to be great. So these guys were on

458
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 4: my target list. Versus if you're already at the top,

459
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 4: you know you got other things at your target list.

460
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:39,640
Speaker 3: I'm not on your.

461
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 4: List, but little do you know, like you're on my list.

462
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:49,199
Speaker 4: I was hunting everyone. Uh, I was hunting everyone at

463
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 4: that time, even guys, even guys that wasn't that good.

464
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 4: I was hunting everyone. I was like, these guys are

465
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 4: a potential threat, So that wasn't that good. I'll just

466
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 4: I'll just smash him.

467
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 3: Guys.

468
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 4: That was like coming in the bench as in, like

469
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 4: you know, as a twelve man, I'm crushing.

470
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 1: I can see why why Kobe wanted you on his team.

471
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 1: With that mindset, you can't even can't even let them

472
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 1: get a little bit of light man, no no, no

473
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: lay So Celtic Series four, oh sweep, no problems there.

474
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: You shut down Paul Pierce. Then you get into a

475
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: series in the conference semifinals. It's a very interesting team.

476
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: I think people forget about the Dwayne Wade and lamar

477
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: odin pairing. Uh And that was a little bit harder

478
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 1: for you guys than the Celtic series. It ends up

479
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: going six, but you guys win. What do you remember

480
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 1: from that series going up against a rookie Dwayne Wade

481
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 1: who has a really really good series, lamar odom Eddie

482
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 1: Jones and Karan Butler. What do you what do you

483
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 1: remember from that series?

484
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 3: Well?

485
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 4: I remember guard in Karan and Garden Dwayne and like,

486
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 4: which one you're gonna go to?

487
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 2: Man?

488
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 4: Because I mean they were they were four year series

489
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 4: might have been a one year and want and done guy.

490
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 4: I'm sure Dwayne was a four year senior, so he

491
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 4: was seasoned. You know, those guys like Dwayne Wade and

492
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 4: Tim Duncan that you know, you you can't be fooled

493
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 4: by their rookie season because those guys are coming into

494
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 4: the NBA ready.

495
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 3: And I knew that Dwayne.

496
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 4: I knew he was going to be tough, and I

497
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 4: had to. I was trying to actually get rid of

498
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 4: him early because I knew eventually he was going to

499
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 4: be a problem. So you know, with Dwayne, I mean

500
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 4: he was playing well, you know, and I was real

501
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 4: physical with him, but then most of the time I

502
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 4: was on I was on uh Kuran. Also, it was

503
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 4: it was back and forth. Dwayne did say that was

504
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 4: his wake up call to the league, and you know

505
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 4: that made me feel good because I mean he didn't

506
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 4: mention our names, but you know, it was a it

507
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 4: was it was a guy there that was.

508
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 3: On him.

509
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: Well, he's he's season. But in college, you're you're not

510
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: running into two sixty on the wing guarding you. That's

511
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,479
Speaker 1: for sure different, very different. So then you take care

512
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 1: of them in six and then the showdown happens. You know,

513
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 1: you play Detroit, one of just maybe in NBA history,

514
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: the most like grind out series ever. Scores in the sixties,

515
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: scores in the seventies. I was rewatching some of those games.

516
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: It'd be like four to three with seven minutes into

517
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 1: the game, just like a grind What I'm interested there

518
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: is the Pistons construction is unique, right, They're not reliant

519
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: on one player. Yes, they have Rip, he's their primary

520
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,360
Speaker 1: go to score, but you know, you as a defender,

521
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: you can take him out and then you got Chauncey,

522
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: you got Rashid to worry about. So what is your

523
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 1: guys sort of mindset going into that series? How are

524
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: you trying to attack them? You guys sort of play

525
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: in a similar way. Your stats during the year were similar.

526
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: Talk me through that. The preparation going against those guys

527
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: in Detroit.

528
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you know it was basically don't make

529
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 4: a mistake. That was the main thing, because they were

530
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 4: going to slow the ball up. Then the problem with Detroit,

531
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 4: not only are they slowing the ball up, they had

532
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,400
Speaker 4: Lindsay Hunt. If they don't have Lindsay Hunter, we win.

533
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 4: I promise you, I please, somebody get rid of Lindsay Hunter.

534
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 3: Get rid of this guy.

535
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 4: This guy is the most one of the most amazing

536
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 4: defenders that I've seen. And then Mike James also, these

537
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 4: two guys, they got us in our offense with thirteen

538
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 4: seconds or fifteen seconds, you know, because they were just

539
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 4: pest and the whole team, But those two guys stand out.

540
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 4: They slowed the game down for us, you know, and

541
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 4: it was really hard.

542
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 3: It was really difficult.

543
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 4: And then you got obviously you got Ben Wallace in

544
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 4: the back, but those guys, you know, you can't really

545
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 4: get a good shot because by the time you get

546
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 4: over then you're rushing. But we're trying to get the

547
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 4: ball to Jamaine, who is our go to guy, but

548
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,439
Speaker 4: we only we don't have much time, you know, versus

549
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 4: getting the ball to Jamaine. If it's eighteen seconds, you know,

550
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 4: that work and if you don't have it, we can

551
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 4: swing swing. I was not I wasn't a lights out

552
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 4: shooter at that time, so they could they could pack

553
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,719
Speaker 4: in the floor, you know. And then I mean, to

554
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 4: our credit, we didn't have a lot of lights flout shooters.

555
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 4: And to Carl Out's credit, I don't even know how

556
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 4: he pulled that off. Reggie was our only lights out shooter,

557
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 4: you know, I mean it was only I mean we

558
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 4: started Jermaine who was a mid range guy and a

559
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 4: post player, Jeff Foster who was a rebounder, uh finisher,

560
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 4: Jamal Tinsley who was a point guard, not a not

561
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 4: a lights out shooter, Metaw Royal Piece who wasn't a

562
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 4: lights out shooter, and Reggie Reggie Miller, who was a

563
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 4: lights out shooter. So, you know, Carlile is really impressive,

564
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 4: don't know, So what he was doing was actually right

565
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 4: because if that team was speeding up the pace and

566
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 4: just started shooting, maybe we missed, we missed. We go

567
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 4: back and forth, you know, and then and then Detroit

568
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 4: had lights out shooters Chauncey, Billups uh Rip, Hamilton, Rashid

569
00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 4: wasn't lights out, but Rashid was lights out.

570
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 3: So if you make a mistake against those guys and those.

571
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 4: Guys get on the breaker, they and then they can

572
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 4: they can also fast break. Those guys could fast break,

573
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 4: but they couldn't fast break against us because our defense

574
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 4: was set. You know, we were getting back on defense

575
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 4: and we lock it up, so you can't really, you

576
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 4: can't just play freely against us because I'm gonna put

577
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 4: you in a tough situation.

578
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,959
Speaker 3: Jermaine gonna put you in a tough situation. So it

579
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 3: was just like it was like it was like.

580
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 4: A mirror image. It was really crazy. Anybody could have

581
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 4: won that series. They were more regular than us.

582
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: Was there a moment in the series that you feel

583
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: like flipped? They were If it went differently, the series

584
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: might have flipped. Because you have the tay Shaun block

585
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: on Reggie Game two, which was big, that.

586
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 3: Wasn't the series.

587
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 4: People say that, but I mean that was only one game,

588
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying that that didn't make the series.

589
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 3: You know, I think the game six made the series.

590
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 3: That was the one man, that.

591
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 4: Was the game we needed to win because we was

592
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 4: going back home to Indiana. You know, we was going

593
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 4: back home to Indiana. And then you know, we gave them.

594
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, if we would have won that game,

595
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 4: and obviously Game five that was a big game for us,

596
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 4: but we still could have beat them because we wasn't

597
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 4: affected by being on the road.

598
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. He wasn't affected by being

599
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 3: on the road.

600
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: So m yeah, and then I read that you were

601
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: dealing with migraines that series. Is that something that you

602
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: dealt with your whole career or.

603
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 4: Was it just that was where they got that from migraines.

604
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,959
Speaker 4: I was people talking about, like, where do you get

605
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 4: a migraine from twenty years later?

606
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 3: That's weird, the migraine weird.

607
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: Well, the series happens you guys falling six. You know,

608
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: I think everyone when they think of you and Detroit,

609
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: obviously they're going to think of the brawl. But is

610
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 1: that sort of where the rivalry stemmed. Was it that

611
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: series or or did it go back further than that,

612
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: you know, the battles there.

613
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 3: With us in Detroit. I think it was just that. Well,

614
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 3: obviously the rival was really it was a couple things.

615
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 3: It was me, Ben and and Jamaine.

616
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 4: We all had it right because Jamaine wanted Defensive Player

617
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 4: of the Year. Also he got he got close to

618
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 4: m VP how and should have got MVP. I don't

619
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 4: know how Jermaine didn't get MVP. I love Garnett, that's

620
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 4: my guy. Like, I'm just saying that, Yeah, we were

621
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 4: we had sixty one wins. Like Jermaine was the best

622
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 4: player on the team. How was Jermaine not MVP, you

623
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 4: know what I'm saying? And we was and we wasn't

624
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 4: an improved team.

625
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: M H.

626
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 4: If you're saying MVP because maybe meta, maybe Run Our

627
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 4: Test is like playing well, then give Run our Test

628
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 4: the MVP. I finished sixty MVP voted. I think Jamaine

629
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 4: finished second third.

630
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: I think it was Garnett and Duncan were two, and

631
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: then Jermaine, Yeah, and then.

632
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 3: Jamaine was third.

633
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 4: I just don't get it because you know, we you know,

634
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 4: I mean, we had sixty one wins, so that's a

635
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 4: lot of wins.

636
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 3: We swept the Celtics.

637
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 4: In the first round, so then we then usually you know,

638
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 4: and then they're now I think they announced that MVP.

639
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 4: They might have announced it and going into the semi finals.

640
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 4: I don't know when they announced it. But I'm just like,

641
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 4: you know, I love KG, you know, I'm just making

642
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 4: an argument for my teammate. No, I don't know how

643
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 4: that slipped that nobody could guard him. He was the

644
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 4: best player on we was clearly the best team you

645
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 4: had the Lakers in that that year. The Lakers were

646
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 4: Kobe and Shaq, Gary Payton and nobody was there and

647
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 4: Jermaine was the one. Jamaine was the guy like how

648
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 4: do how is that possible?

649
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 3: You know, how is that possible?

650
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 4: And I remember, like ship I got Defensive Player of

651
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 4: the Year and then Jamaine don't got no award. I'm like,

652
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 4: this is crazy, you know, like you know what I'm saying,

653
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 4: Like this is just unreal. I mean because I got

654
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 4: one of the most prestigious awards that year and then

655
00:32:55,120 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 4: Jamaine didn't get anything. How is that even possible? So anyway,

656
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 4: that always stuck with that, always like stuck with me.

657
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 4: And we were a young team. It's not like it's

658
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 4: not like Jamaine was. It's not like Jamaine had a

659
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 4: bunch of veterans.

660
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 3: Kg.

661
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: Kg did have veterans. He at Cassel, he had spree.

662
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 4: Well, so how how is Jermaine m v P is

663
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 4: so hard to get? Kobe got one? And this is

664
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 4: not going at but I love Gunet Like this has

665
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 4: nothing to do with this has to do with who.

666
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 3: Picked you know, the you know who picked.

667
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 4: That's it, you know, And it was all politics and

668
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 4: me these people deprive people of what they earned and deserved.

669
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 3: But you know, that's what it is. It is what

670
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 3: it is.

671
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: And I think it's interesting, you know. That's why you

672
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: know forgotten seasons. Really, it's like just because a player

673
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: didn't win the m v P, just because a team

674
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 1: didn't win the title, doesn't mean they can't be celebrated.

675
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: But I hear you on that. I think it is

676
00:33:55,520 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: he has a strong case there, so that and you know,

677
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: that's sort of the season, right, two thousand and three,

678
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 1: two thousand and four sixty one wins. You know what

679
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: happens the next season happens. I think it's a shame

680
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: that that's sort of the image that people think of

681
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 1: when they, you know, see the faces of the stars

682
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 1: of this team.

683
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 3: But even just yeah, but.

684
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: Even just focusing on this year, like you know what,

685
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 1: what one or two memories do you have from the

686
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: season that that stick with you the most that when

687
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: you think back on it, you know, you remember the

688
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: most fondly.

689
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 3: Man.

690
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean it was overwhelming at that time

691
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 4: because I knew I wanted to be the best.

692
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 3: Ever.

693
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,439
Speaker 4: That's how I that's how I think about my life.

694
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 4: You know, I'm very competitive, as people know, I was

695
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 4: probably one of the most I don't know who was

696
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 4: more competitive than me when I was in my front

697
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 4: maybe Kobe Have don't know, he was more talented. It's

698
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 4: definitely more talented players. I'm just say more competitive, you know.

699
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 3: Uh.

700
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 4: And at that time I was ranked I got I

701
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 4: was thirteen more NBA. No one expected that. M you

702
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 4: know the year that I got suspended, I mean.

703
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 3: What do you think I would have what? What? What

704
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 3: would you think I would have got that? Yeah? Was

705
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 3: asking you four or five? Yeah?

706
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got suspended. I mean you were averaging. I

707
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: looked like twenty four and a half. It was like seven.

708
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. Seven. I mean, I mean but you I think.

709
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 1: You're you're all NBA for sure. You know your what team?

710
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 3: It's tough man.

711
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: First team All NBA is so hard to crack. Even

712
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 1: today you have because like today, for example, like there's

713
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: three or four guys that if they just produced at

714
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: the same level they do, they're gonna get it right.

715
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 1: It's you know, this year like Curry, Jo Kis, Luca,

716
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: I think second team. I think second team for sure.

717
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 1: But if that traj if that trajectory continues, right, you're averaging,

718
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: you know, loaded twenty twenty two, you guys the one

719
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: seed again, I think second team, first team. About the defense,

720
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: I mean who Wallace one that year? Again, Wallace one

721
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: that year. Year I want to do prior year, but like,

722
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: I don't even see, like how at that point it's

723
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 1: like you're saying, like they're depriving you, Like how do

724
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: you even decide between you and Bent? Like it's a

725
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 1: it's a coin flip.

726
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 3: I don't know.

727
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 4: I think it's a toss a toss up that I mean,

728
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,879
Speaker 4: maybe he maybe he still wins it, but I wasn't either.

729
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 4: I didn't play right. So yeah, you know, and I'm

730
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 4: the reigning defensive player of the year. So then that

731
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 4: year that's so that's like, let's just say a second,

732
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 4: let's say a first team All defense and no difference,

733
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 4: worst all Star probably say all Star, all start. Yeah, yeah,

734
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 4: a star, right, So you know, so that that's that's

735
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 4: what it was. You know, that's what it was. And

736
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 4: then the next year I come back and then I

737
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 4: request the trade before All Star break, so I didn't

738
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 4: even get a chance to do anything else, you know,

739
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,280
Speaker 4: but that that that that team was an amazing team.

740
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 4: You know, we definitely I'm definitely ay at that for

741
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 4: that seasons because I'm happy that. Sometimes I'll speak of

742
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 4: Jamaine and Jermaine say something like, you know, he was

743
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 4: the best team in the league. Stack Stack Jackets say

744
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 4: something like, you know, we shouldn't want to ring, And

745
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 4: I'm like, wow, these guys still believe that because I

746
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 4: feel that way, and.

747
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 3: I'm happy these guys feel that way.

748
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:29,399
Speaker 4: But obviously, you know, I actually wish the starting five

749
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 4: with Detroit makes the Hall of Fame because I truly

750
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 4: believe they deserve it.

751
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 3: I mean, when you.

752
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,399
Speaker 4: Look at what that team did, they beat a Hall

753
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 4: of Famous. You look at what these other guys do,

754
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 4: these other champions, they win, and that's great. But you know,

755
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 4: but when you look at Rip Hamilton, when you look

756
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 4: at Chauncey Billups, Ben Wallace and Rashid Wallace, Tayshawn Prince,

757
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 4: but he was big on that team, Maybe Tayshawn Prince

758
00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 4: don't go.

759
00:37:58,320 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 3: To the Hall of Fame.

760
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: Role Player all Fame. We we gotta make it. We

761
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,479
Speaker 1: gotta make a new Hall of Fame, the role Player

762
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. He's in there.

763
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 3: He's a you know what I'm saying, Tayshawn Prince was huge.

764
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 3: He was huge. You know what I'm saying.

765
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 4: I feel like that whole start in five, they should

766
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 4: be in the Hall of Fame, and Tayshawn Prince should

767
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 4: be should be allowed, because if they don't have Tayshawn,

768
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 4: they have no chance against me. I mean they had

769
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,439
Speaker 4: Collus Williamson. So Carlus was big. Actually call Us was big.

770
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 4: Carlus was still not as mobile, and I can play

771
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 4: off carl Us a little bit. Carlos was a hell

772
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 4: of a player. Actually, I love playing mccrawl. I played

773
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 4: with him at the Kings Man. I really love Carlas Williamson.

774
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 4: But I really hope that I hope that whole team. Well,

775
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 4: Ben Wallace has gotten into the Hall of Fame, So

776
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 4: now is.

777
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,720
Speaker 1: He the first has Chauncey gotten in it? Or he's got.

778
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,439
Speaker 3: First time Defensive Player of the Year.

779
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,839
Speaker 1: I know. I mean people here today that they use

780
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: him as an example for like, oh, everyone gets into

781
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame these days, but like no, no, no,

782
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: he's there's no there's nobody else that has a resume

783
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 1: like him.

784
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 3: Wallas is a top one hundred and fifty player in

785
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 3: the NBA.

786
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 4: History just because see these guys think because you can

787
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 4: score that you know you you're you're a good player.

788
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 3: What makes sure of good player? You win.

789
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 4: Bill Russell is the best player of all times. When

790
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 4: you play in the NBA season, everybody's playing for the title.

791
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,839
Speaker 4: Emotions get high in the playoffs, right, Guys is trying

792
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 4: to get the A seed. They're not trying to get

793
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 4: the eighth seed, you know, so they could go to

794
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 4: Disneyland trying to get to the A so they could

795
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 4: be in the playoffs. And then people are trying to

796
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 4: get the first seed so they can win to the championship.

797
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,919
Speaker 4: Guys is not getting to the finals and saying, oh

798
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,479
Speaker 4: we're here. I am so happy, mom. That guys trying

799
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 4: to win the title. And Bill Wistle he.

800
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 3: Got eleven of them.

801
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 4: Right, that's the player, and he was the best player

802
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 4: on the team. And Ben Wallace got one of them

803
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 4: with four defensive player of the years, so he's better

804
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 4: than the offensive players by by a landslide.

805
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: Who do you think, who's in your mind the best

806
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,399
Speaker 1: defender in the league. Now I know you're watching it.

807
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:12,720
Speaker 3: I'm not watching defenders.

808
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 4: I'm just hearing about Ben Simmons a lot, and Philly

809
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 4: got two really good defenders, which I heard.

810
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: You gotta watch, you gotta watch the young kid table.

811
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 4: I think that's what everybody keep telling me. Everybody keep

812
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 4: telling me, you know, you got to watch this kid.

813
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 4: I heard he's an amazing defender. So I'm going off that.

814
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 4: But my brother's telling me. My brother told me he

815
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 4: reminds me of Meal on defense. So those two guys

816
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 4: stand out. Obviously, Marcus Smart is always gonna stand out.

817
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 4: Hes getting a little older, but he's still he's not

818
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 4: in his prime yet, so he's gonna always stand out.

819
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 4: Anthony Davis stands out to me. Lebron stands out to

820
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 4: me a little bit too. Can you look at Lebron.

821
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 3: He's thirty six years old and he moves his feet

822
00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 3: very well.

823
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 4: He's a good defense there. He's he's he's one. He's

824
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,919
Speaker 4: he's a good defender. He's not doing it every possession, right,

825
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 4: but he wants to. He does it. Not one of

826
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 4: the top defenders. Rudy obviously, Rudy is a great defender.

827
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 3: Well for me, with.

828
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: Rudy, like, obviously I'm not denying that he's one of

829
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: the best in the league. But in my mind, in

830
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 1: today's league, like he can't guard the perimeter, and when

831
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: seventy five percent of the game maybe more is played

832
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: in the perimeter. I would just like to see that

833
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,760
Speaker 1: ward go to somebody like a Simmons, like a Draymond Green,

834
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 1: who can go out inside and outside, because.

835
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 3: That's so important.

836
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 1: You see Rudy in these playoffs like they're running a

837
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,760
Speaker 1: pick and roll. He's playing drop coverage like that's a weakness.

838
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:46,879
Speaker 1: So I don't know he's about to be They say

839
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,399
Speaker 1: he's gonna win it again. So he's approaching like Big

840
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 1: Ben as you know, three three, four time player, Defensive

841
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:55,879
Speaker 1: Player of the Years. But you know, I don't want

842
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 1: to throw any disrespect on his name, but I think

843
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 1: in today's league, when it such an outside game, you

844
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 1: got to reward the player that can go inside and outside,

845
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: like somebody, you know, like you back in the day.

846
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 4: I mean yeah, I mean, you know, just I think

847
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 4: people I think they had the best record in the league.

848
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 3: Too, the Jazz.

849
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, he's definitely the This is

850
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 4: definitely the Yeah, he deserves it.

851
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 3: Maybe the other years, but it's hard.

852
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 4: I remember when I wanted to get the Fitzblad year,

853
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 4: I was going up against Tim duncan garn that my

854
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 4: own Teenagermaine O'Neil Ben Wallace.

855
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 3: I got up in there, and you know what I'm saying,

856
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 3: it's really tough.

857
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 4: And with Ben Simmons, I think benk could get it

858
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 4: if he stays with it, stays focused this summer, you know,

859
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 4: keep playing how he's playing. You know, potentially both those

860
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 4: guys could be could go back and forth, especially because

861
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 4: they'll be they should be winning for the next couple

862
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:57,280
Speaker 4: of years.

863
00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 3: Sixes no doubt.

864
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got a reward winning. Well, we only got

865
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: like ten or so minutes left. I want to get

866
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: into some mail bag questions. Actually on my Instagram said

867
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: that I was going to be interviewing one of the

868
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,479
Speaker 1: players on this team, and we got some really good,

869
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: good submissions from the fans. So first off, we're going

870
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 1: to start out from Tracy McGrady fan. He said, what

871
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 1: is one team that you wished you could have played

872
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:25,720
Speaker 1: for but didn't?

873
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:33,760
Speaker 3: Man, Oh, that's brutal. Oh that's brutal.

874
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe a few the ones that come to the

875
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 1: top of them.

876
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 4: It was just brutal because I always wanted to be

877
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 4: a nick So that stabs me. That just gives me anxiety.

878
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 3: That's one of the I don't know, I need to

879
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 3: let that go, right, But that's.

880
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,800
Speaker 1: But you were you were a nick But but but

881
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: doesn't doesn't count. Was that was that two thousand? Was

882
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: that twenty and twelve or.

883
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:57,279
Speaker 3: Fourteen?

884
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: So that you guys didn't that wasn't even a playoff team,

885
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: was it.

886
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 4: No, we were a playoff team, but we were just losing.

887
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 4: It was just like, you know, I probably take the

888
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 4: blame for that year.

889
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 3: I mean it was no.

890
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 4: I think that wasn't as good of a leader as

891
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 4: I should have been on that team, you know, so

892
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:17,919
Speaker 4: I probably take the blame for that year.

893
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 1: Well, I mean when you look at the next the

894
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 1: last ten years, there's a lot of people that you

895
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: could blame it on. You are probably not at the

896
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:27,280
Speaker 1: top of that list.

897
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 3: That season.

898
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 4: I probably am that season definitely, we should have been

899
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 4: in the playoffs and you know should have.

900
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 3: We should be.

901
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 4: I mean we had Mellow, you got Mellow, and we

902
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 4: had k Mark, we had Tyson Chillan. I mean, we

903
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 4: had Imon Shrump and we had I mean, we had

904
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 4: a we had rain for we had a solid team.

905
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,439
Speaker 4: We should have been in the playoffs. There's no reason

906
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 4: why we were in the playoffs.

907
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 1: Well, it's good to see him back. I was at

908
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 1: Game two against the Hawks, the the one win. So

909
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,720
Speaker 1: that was that was great to see. All right, Next question,

910
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 1: uh we got from son of Jack. He asked, what

911
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 1: was statu as a teammate and do you have one

912
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 1: memory that stands out that just sort of encapsulates stack

913
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: Jack as the man.

914
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 4: Stat Jack was great. He was sacrifice. He was better

915
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 4: than what he was. Stat Jackie is an ultimate sacrificer

916
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 4: because he he did something that I did when I

917
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 4: was in the sacramentoal BONDSI well, so stat Jack. I

918
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 4: always wanted to guard to the best players, and when

919
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,280
Speaker 4: I got the best players, I was also a really

920
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 4: good offensive player.

921
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 3: Stack wanted me to score, you know.

922
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 4: So Stack said, no, I'm guarding the best defensive players

923
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 4: every night. I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm

924
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 4: gutting the best defensive I'm guarding the best offensive players

925
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 4: every night me and Stack was like, no, I'm guarding

926
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:39,799
Speaker 4: the best offensive players every night.

927
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 3: And then I'll be like, Okay. Then I get into

928
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 3: the game and I'd be like, nah, I got him.

929
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:44,839
Speaker 4: I'll try to make the last minute audible and Stack

930
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 4: and like no, no, no, And we literally I've never

931
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 4: been on.

932
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 3: A person where we will fight to guard the best

933
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 3: offensive player.

934
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, and if I was guarding the best offensive player,

935
00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 4: I'm like, I'll just free you up, Stack, you go

936
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 4: go do Yet he said, no, no, no, you go do

937
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:01,399
Speaker 4: your thing.

938
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, fuck, Statue, it's two thousand, so this

939
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 1: is this is two thousand and four. Was that the

940
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 1: only year you played with him?

941
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:08,959
Speaker 3: That's the only year we played with each other.

942
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 1: So he's trying to take he's trying to take the

943
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 1: best matchup away from the reigning defensive player of the year.

944
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, he wanted to because he wants it. I could

945
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 3: score that rock. You know, it was simple.

946
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 4: It wasn't it wasn't like amazing, but it was, you know,

947
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,240
Speaker 4: I was it was just simple, one to two dribbles

948
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 4: and a layup or a shot sacrificer, you know what

949
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 4: I'm saying.

950
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:32,359
Speaker 3: That's who he is.

951
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,319
Speaker 4: And then yeah, so that's stat Jack for you, and

952
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,280
Speaker 4: everybody knows that he's a he's a team guy.

953
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: Well, start Tack was actually one of the first people

954
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: to put me on Forgotten season, so I'm forever grateful

955
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,359
Speaker 1: for him. He threw me aside as well. All Right,

956
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: last last question we have from Joey Cork. He asked

957
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 1: if you had any idea when you were playing in

958
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:55,959
Speaker 1: your prime that the three would take over the game

959
00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: like it has today. He said what he asked, when

960
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: you were playing, did you have any idea that the

961
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 1: three would take over the game like it has today?

962
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 3: Well, I kind of did.

963
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 4: Jamison Brewer. Jamison Brewer was ahead of his time. Jamison

964
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 4: Brewer played like this, and Jamison Brewer will always say.

965
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 4: That's why when if I was a coach, I'm going

966
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,240
Speaker 4: to hire Jamison Brewer as an assistant. In two thousand

967
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 4: and four, he said, this is how the game should

968
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 4: be played. Push it, don't slow it up. He was

969
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 4: playing record at the time, and Rick was more of

970
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 4: an as system guy. But Jamison came in. Jamison came

971
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 4: into the game and will get five points, five rebowns,

972
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 4: five assists like quick. And he would say. He will

973
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 4: always tell me, you know, we gotta run. Let's just

974
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 4: get a lot of possessions. Don't worry about it. But

975
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 4: he wouldn't play. Jamison was an all star player. To me,

976
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 4: A lot of people don't know Jamison Brewer.

977
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:50,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, you didn't have a long career.

978
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 4: This kid didn't have a long career because he was

979
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 4: way ahead of his time. If he would have played

980
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,800
Speaker 4: with like a d'An toni, he would have excelled.

981
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 3: He's saw the.

982
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 4: Future and I remember that to this day. I remember

983
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 4: how he played to this day. Hell of a defender,

984
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 4: lightning fast and very strong. Not a great shooter, but

985
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 4: you know that nobody is early on, with the exception

986
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:20,760
Speaker 4: of Trade Young and Stephen Curry.

987
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

988
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: Well, the new guys, it's it's just a whole different level.

989
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:25,720
Speaker 1: They're they're coming, They're coming out of the womb, pulling

990
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 1: up from Yeah. All right, man, that is uh, that's

991
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 1: all I got for you. I really appreciate you hopping on.

992
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: This was a lot of fun. Like I said, this,

993
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: this Pacers team, they get a lot of love and

994
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: I think it's great to be able to celebrate. You know,

995
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 1: it's the best Pacers team in franchise history. You guys

996
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: are still at that record books. You know, sixty one wins.

997
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 1: No Piecers team has done that. So thank you for

998
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 1: coming on. For everyone out there, you can check out

999
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:56,280
Speaker 1: Ron's business venture X versus x sports dot Com download

1000
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: on the app Store. Increasing the connection of people playing

1001
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:02,879
Speaker 1: basketball in the community. If you want to know, say

1002
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 1: a little bit more about that I can.

1003
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, basketball players should connect with basketball players,

1004
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,879
Speaker 4: you know, so sign up to the app, invite your

1005
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 4: friends to text messaging on social media, shady app, and

1006
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 4: basketball players just get connected with basketball players.

1007
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 1: Unreal. Well, Also, I want to give a quick shout

1008
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 1: out to Tron's brother Daniel. He's been a big help

1009
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: for me too. Sixty five Media they're doing great things

1010
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 1: over there. I've hopped on with them. He was a

1011
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,799
Speaker 1: big supporter of my page and I'm forever grateful for that.

1012
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 1: So both our test brothers are my guys, and I

1013
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 1: appreciate you. Be well, and let's go Pacers.

1014
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 3: Absolutely, man, I'm really excited for you.

1015
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 4: I remember seeing your page and I'm excited that you're

1016
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 4: not just staying stagnant, that you're going to the next level.

1017
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 4: So much success to you. Appreciate that, man, Be well.

1018
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 3: Absolutely too.

1019
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,319
Speaker 1: Forgotten seasons with Mettas Sanderford, our test in the two

1020
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: thousand and four Pacers. I'm really glad that we could

1021
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 1: celebrate this amazing squad. I'm Dylan Dreyfus. Be sure to

1022
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: check out metas app xversex Sports on the app store.

1023
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. And your continued support. I truly

1024
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 1: appreciate it. You can find Forgotten Seasons on Instagram and Twitter,

1025
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 1: and visit truthplusmedia dot com for more in depth looks

1026
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: at these amazing stories from NBA history, and stay tuned

1027
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 1: there's more Forgotten Seasons on the way.