Speaker 1: Hello everybody.
Speaker 2: This is Craig Ferguson letting you know that my Fancy
Speaker 2: Rascal Tour continues throughout the fall of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2: For a full list of dates and tickets, please go
Speaker 2: to my website, the Craig Ferguson Show dot com slash tour.
Speaker 2: My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast
Speaker 2: is Joy. I talk to interest in people about what
Speaker 2: brings them happiness.
Speaker 3: Here's one of my old friends. Her name is Shirley Mans.
Speaker 1: She's the lead singer with a band called Garbage. I
Speaker 1: first met her she was the lead singer of Oh
Speaker 1: Well You'll find out enjoy.
Speaker 2: I'll just say nice things about you. But if I
Speaker 2: say nice things about you now, no, because I don't
Speaker 2: want to say nice things about you, know, because you're Scottish,
Speaker 2: so you'll get angry at me.
Speaker 3: You saying nice things about I've been living here for
Speaker 3: a long time now, though, I like do.
Speaker 1: They try and take your Scottishness away from you when
Speaker 1: you go to be ridiculous?
Speaker 3: So they do it to me? What do you mean?
Speaker 1: Sometimes I think it's because you're from Edinburgh. Edinburgh people, No.
Speaker 3: That's not true. That's not it.
Speaker 2: No, no, that is not true. You are super famous,
Speaker 2: you are.
Speaker 1: This is great.
Speaker 3: Well, good night everybody, good night, We're done here.
Speaker 2: I think in the Edinburgh side of things, I think
Speaker 2: people are nicer about it.
Speaker 1: I think in Glasgow they.
Speaker 2: Try and say are your accents you're not even Scottish anymore.
Speaker 1: But I think in Edinburgh there like, no, it's okay,
Speaker 1: you can, you can. You're allowed to be successful elsewhere
Speaker 1: and then come back to Edinburgh. Lots of people do it,
Speaker 1: but in Glasgow to get fucking mad at you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the thing. That's probably fair. They're a little
Speaker 3: bit easier on you.
Speaker 1: And yeah they are.
Speaker 3: They've got me ship over the years.
Speaker 2: Well, you can't get tenured. You're now tenured. You're now
Speaker 2: a rock star that's tenured as rock star.
Speaker 1: But you can't get to that point without getting going
Speaker 1: through the I like to call it the Zar Doors period.
Speaker 1: Like even Sean Connery had to go through the Mangini
Speaker 1: before he became finally tenured. True, you know what I
Speaker 1: wanted to talk to you about today. I was just
Speaker 1: thinking when I was coming here to day, I want
Speaker 1: to talk to silly about there's a couple of things.
Speaker 2: One is the Columbia Hotel God, which was we'll get
Speaker 2: to And the other thing is you being one hundred
Speaker 2: percent Viking.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the weirdest thing.
Speaker 1: I Like, you did a twenty three and meion, you're
Speaker 1: one hundred percent one thing Viking.
Speaker 3: Which is really unusual in this d Dane.
Speaker 1: I suppose Viking is a verb, isn't it.
Speaker 3: It's like, I don't know what that meant. I don't
Speaker 3: think I'm Dane per se right, I'm not sure one
Speaker 3: hundred percent what they meant by that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you do have kind of a warrior spirit, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. It's like, even like as a performer,
Speaker 2: even when I.
Speaker 1: Saw you when you were like a kid, when I
Speaker 1: was a kid and you were a kid, I was
Speaker 1: less of.
Speaker 3: A kid than you were, but not that much, not
Speaker 3: by much.
Speaker 1: But I remember, like even seeing you back then when
Speaker 1: you were with the cool kids, you still had that
Speaker 1: kind of.
Speaker 2: Like like you were tough girl. I guess you had
Speaker 2: to be back I think, well.
Speaker 3: I am tough, Yeah you are, for sure, and I
Speaker 3: am redheaded, and I am aware that I am in
Speaker 3: tune with my Viking for sure.
Speaker 2: Did you think because rock music is very fucking His
Speaker 2: horror was like a rugby thing, almost the way guys are. Actually,
Speaker 2: I was reading that the thing recently that Courtney Love
Speaker 2: wrote about the.
Speaker 1: Rock and Rock Hall of Fame. Yeah, it'st fucking ballocks,
Speaker 1: that is. Do you know that I went to the
Speaker 1: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and I was looking around.
Speaker 1: I was in Cleveland, and you know, there's limited things
Speaker 1: to do. I was walking around the Rock and Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame and I saw an exhibit and it was
Speaker 1: like Buddy Holly exhibit. And I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: Buddy Holly is a seminal artist.
Speaker 2: And I was looking at it and they had his
Speaker 2: glasses and I was looking at his glasses and I thought, wait,
Speaker 2: in a fucking minute, wasn't he wearing his glasses in
Speaker 2: the plane? These aren't a fucking because they were intact.
Speaker 2: If they were his glasses, they surely would have been broken.
Speaker 3: I'm going to just throw this out there, and this
Speaker 3: is more than I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I think they went to a fucking
Speaker 1: eye doctors. They went to like a specsaver. Give us
Speaker 1: a pair of the Buddy Holly, we'll put it in
Speaker 1: the museum.
Speaker 2: When we when I was at school, we did a
Speaker 2: museum of space and we did man's first foodprint on
Speaker 2: the minut We had bought a shoe box full of
Speaker 2: sand and somebody stood on it with their wellies and
Speaker 2: then that was it.
Speaker 1: It was amazing Man's first step.
Speaker 3: On the moon. It wasn't really that's quite. No, I'm sorry,
Speaker 3: I think that's quite.
Speaker 1: Are you in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?
Speaker 1: I am Are you really one of the few women
Speaker 1: that are in it? Or is the bad?
Speaker 3: Lots of women's articles and sort of testament to women,
Speaker 3: to be fair, and I actually loved my visit to
Speaker 3: the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I couldn't get
Speaker 3: over it. I thought like the public enemy, except it
Speaker 3: was amazing, you know.
Speaker 1: I just was angry at the Buddy Holy Glass.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no fair, I mean I get it. I mean
Speaker 3: I'm just into music, so I was to related, you know.
Speaker 3: But I think there is a real issue with the
Speaker 3: whole patriarchal view of history. I mean that we were
Speaker 3: face we face a problem.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I sure, I mean there's definitely work being done
Speaker 1: on that, a little bit spread out enough. But I
Speaker 1: love Chrissy Heines take on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, who doesn't love stop, she said, anyone
Speaker 3: who thinks the rock roll of Ames getting to do
Speaker 3: with rock and roll was funck all about rock and roll?
Speaker 1: Oh god, she's still fucking fantastic.
Speaker 3: Tremendous were they were these because.
Speaker 1: We were talking about Susie Sue as well. Who these
Speaker 1: are artists who were like a wee bit ahead of
Speaker 1: you chronologically, but they're the women that you kind of
Speaker 1: were looking up to when you were in Goodbye Ms.
Speaker 1: McKenzie and stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I'm really lucky because I sort of
Speaker 3: fell in love with the sort of second generation of
Speaker 3: women artists, right, and they were all, for the most part,
Speaker 3: kind of rock and rollers, you know, like Debbie Harry,
Speaker 3: Christy Heine, Patti Smith, even Stevie Nicks.
Speaker 1: You know, Steven was awesome.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's real.
Speaker 1: Rock and roll.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've burned at heart, you know, So that's true. Actually,
Speaker 2: I mean that band, I mean, their music was very
Speaker 2: kind of accessible, but their lifestyle, yeah.
Speaker 3: It was wild.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 3: So Yeah, I had an amazing I had amazing women
Speaker 3: to look up to. And they were the first generation
Speaker 3: of women who have been allowed to age, which is
Speaker 3: again something that hasn't happened really historically, is that women
Speaker 3: have been allowed to work.
Speaker 2: I think still these women still, I think the women
Speaker 2: still get it worse than men about aging.
Speaker 1: Like you still see that, like articles that look at
Speaker 1: her now.
Speaker 3: It's awful. I mean, they do it. They've done it
Speaker 3: to me, and it's so gut wrenching when it happens.
Speaker 1: Do you ever meet Carrie Fisher?
Speaker 3: No, I've never met Carry Fisher, although she was friendly
Speaker 3: with a lot of people I knew.
Speaker 1: Oh, Carrie was a friend of mine.
Speaker 2: I was very friendly with Carrie and I loved her,
Speaker 2: and she talked to me about that. She said, I
Speaker 2: didn't think when I was twenty four years old and
Speaker 2: I put on that metal bikini in Star Wars, that
Speaker 2: I was making a fucking contract to look like that
Speaker 2: for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1: And I would be shamed and putting the pillory for
Speaker 1: not looking like that when I was fifty years old.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I get it.
Speaker 1: It's shocking. It's of open prejudice, I think as well.
Speaker 3: I wish it was the last bastion, but I think
Speaker 3: there's quite a few other.
Speaker 2: I think important people try and kind of hide it
Speaker 2: a little bit. And oh yeah, I'm very inclusive, but
Speaker 2: I don't. What they say now is they say it's
Speaker 2: woke if they.
Speaker 1: Want to kind of say that they don't like you,
Speaker 1: or they're angry at what you think.
Speaker 3: They call you woke, Well, they call you woke when
Speaker 3: they feel a little guilty that you're aware that they're
Speaker 3: being an absolute asshole towards someone else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I see, I'm very capable of being an absolute ass.
Speaker 3: Well, look who you're talking to me, And I'm really
Speaker 3: good at it too. But I mean the stepping on
Speaker 3: people's necks currently, I really find it frightening. Actually, I
Speaker 3: think I think it's worse than it used to be.
Speaker 3: I do, Yeah, I mean I think the world has
Speaker 3: always been awful, right That's just how the world is.
Speaker 1: You're only happy when it rains.
Speaker 3: I think it's pretty bad right now, I really do.
Speaker 3: I think there's a very sort of just a right
Speaker 3: swing around the world, all over the globe, and it's
Speaker 3: allowed people to voice really horrible ideas about other people.
Speaker 2: The awful thing I think about it is that if
Speaker 2: you believe in free speech, which I kind of do,
Speaker 2: then I suppose you have to believe in the right
Speaker 2: of people to voice awful shit, which is a shame.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. See, I don't know if if
Speaker 3: you if freedom of speech is to allow people to
Speaker 3: spew hate, I think it's really dangerous. But I understand
Speaker 3: that it's a very thin line. Unfortunate.
Speaker 1: Who was it was?
Speaker 2: It was a russo or I think it was Rousseau
Speaker 2: who said, I may not agree with what you say,
Speaker 2: but I will defend to the death you're right to say.
Speaker 3: It sounds like Russou sounds French, it does. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then and then the French, or God bless them,
Speaker 2: they're mad again. They're setting their garbage guys around strike,
Speaker 2: they're setting fire to the town halls because they're raised,
Speaker 2: you know, raised the retirementge from sixty two to sixty four.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Like I love that by the French. I love
Speaker 3: whether they take it sitting down, but.
Speaker 1: The idea of to write, so who's right? And then
Speaker 1: the sixty two year.
Speaker 3: Olds like, we're so aggurate. I'm so tired, but I've
Speaker 3: got one more riot in me. I'm going out and
Speaker 3: the blessomar I love it.
Speaker 2: That's I'm very envious of you in the fact that
Speaker 2: in your world you get to play Paris and Madrid
Speaker 2: and South America and all that, because music is universal
Speaker 2: and what I do is just you know, like, no,
Speaker 2: I have to talk to people that understand.
Speaker 3: What the fuck I'm saying. Yeah, that's true, that's horrible.
Speaker 3: Just go and learn a few languages. I thought about
Speaker 3: Eddie doesn't wanderin. I'd like you to learn a little Mandarin.
Speaker 1: You know, my son speaks Mandarin.
Speaker 2: See it's great, Yeah, it's he's really good at well,
Speaker 2: I don't know if he's really good at don't speaking
Speaker 2: of it, but other people seem to amazing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Chinese people kind of talk to him and he
Speaker 3: talks about that's the coolest ever, I think, because it's
Speaker 3: very hard. No, I wish I did.
Speaker 1: What do you speak? Then? You speak?
Speaker 3: I speak a little bit of French. That's because you're
Speaker 3: from all the lions in the French.
Speaker 2: Scott's in the French against the English. Do you go
Speaker 2: back to Scotland a lot? Because the last time I
Speaker 2: saw you was actually he through airport. Were both getting
Speaker 2: off a plane.
Speaker 3: During COVID and there was nobody else on the train
Speaker 3: but you and me and my husband. You were on
Speaker 3: the train and my husband got on the train and
Speaker 3: for some reason, I was trolling behind nearly I was
Speaker 3: like the doors and I suddenly pushed my way in
Speaker 3: and I felt the annoyance of another the only other
Speaker 3: passenger on the train, and to my horror, it was.
Speaker 2: Me Worse than that, it was a Scottish person's unbelieva people.
Speaker 3: Hey, Scottish people.
Speaker 1: Unless they're prepared, you know what I mean? You have
Speaker 1: to be prepared for it. You just like running Scottish
Speaker 1: I think scott Yeah, it's so weird, isn't it.
Speaker 3: It's quite weird that Megan says that to me, is like,
Speaker 3: what the fuck is that with you guys? I'm like,
Speaker 3: I don't know, It's just weird.
Speaker 1: We are very strange people.
Speaker 3: I love that though, Yeah, we're I love the Scots.
Speaker 3: I can't help myself.
Speaker 1: They are the odd Would you ever go back there
Speaker 1: and live? Do you think I would?
Speaker 3: I've talked about it. After COVID, I went kind of
Speaker 3: mad here being living in La right, and I just
Speaker 3: woke up one day and there was literally twenty four
Speaker 3: helicopters buzzing around our house and had been for hours
Speaker 3: and hours on end. There were people protesting in the streets,
Speaker 3: and it was quite intense and heartbreaking, and then there
Speaker 3: was an earthquake and I sat up, ball upright and shouted,
Speaker 3: well I did, and yes you did.
Speaker 1: I did. I went home and it's raining.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's raining. All I could have told you that,
Speaker 3: though love.
Speaker 1: Is always raining.
Speaker 3: And on that amazing house, No, I moved to.
Speaker 1: Another amazing house. Do you want to buy the amazing
Speaker 1: house I've trying.
Speaker 3: To sell that? Do you realize what happens? Musicians don't
Speaker 3: make enough money anymore?
Speaker 1: No? I don't know if that's true. You guys level.
Speaker 3: Musicians, trust me, don't make enough. People think we're really
Speaker 3: rich because they think we're like Beyonce or The Weekend.
Speaker 2: It's not like that, yeah, but you know what those guys,
Speaker 2: But I don't know. I mean that's not mid level though.
Speaker 2: I mean, like you're playing big, You're going to tour
Speaker 2: with No Gallagher this year. I wouldn't describe either you
Speaker 2: or No Gallaghers like that's top tier.
Speaker 3: Well, it is top tier, but it's still, like, I
Speaker 3: don't know, there's just a huge gulf between us obviously
Speaker 3: and baby bands who are really struggling, and then us
Speaker 3: and those heavyweights that I've just mentioned, like they make
Speaker 3: handle our fist, you know, and that's not the case
Speaker 3: for us. Like, if we're not touring, we're not making money. Yeah,
Speaker 3: because records don't sell anymore. They don't kind of you
Speaker 3: can't make money. You can't make money through radio play
Speaker 3: like you used to. You just can't make any money
Speaker 3: unless you get your arse off the couch and go
Speaker 3: and play.
Speaker 1: And it's it's hard work, it is, but it's it's
Speaker 1: also kind of interesting because the musicians that I tend.
Speaker 3: To like, I love music and I we're musicians, and
Speaker 3: I think like that.
Speaker 2: I even think like that when I'm right stand up
Speaker 2: has the show has to run, like and I tour
Speaker 2: with Tamas who if he's not touring with me, he's
Speaker 2: touring with Dinas or Junior or or somebody.
Speaker 1: I don't know if people.
Speaker 2: Like most of the people he deals with are like
Speaker 2: quiet and introspective and and I'm like, hey, yeah, but
Speaker 2: you're a rock star. I was just a I'm just
Speaker 2: a vulgar lounge entertainer.
Speaker 1: But but the but the idea of I'm I think
Speaker 1: that the people that I tend to like you are
Speaker 1: one of them. As an artist, you would do it
Speaker 1: if there was no money in it. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: it's what you do.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 1: And because I remember I did I tell you this?
Speaker 1: I toured with the Rolling Stones for a while.
Speaker 3: No, you haven't told me that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was writing a script with Mick Jagger.
Speaker 3: How do I not know this story?
Speaker 1: Well we never made the movie, but I got fired.
Speaker 1: But I was.
Speaker 3: But I toured with him for a couple of months
Speaker 3: and it was on the Bridges to Babylon tours.
Speaker 1: So it was a while ago.
Speaker 2: But I remember watching Keith Richards, who became the focus
Speaker 2: of my fascination, not Meg. Mike's a I'm not saying
Speaker 2: I'm not comparing myself to Meg, but he's an entertainer.
Speaker 1: He's a like a razzle, dazzle show off man. But
Speaker 1: I became fascinated by Keith Richards, who if he was
Speaker 1: playing a pub in South London, he'd be just as happy.
Speaker 1: Yeah he's not. I don't think he really even sees
Speaker 1: that world.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, I mean he's that's what makes him
Speaker 3: so extraordinary. But that's what I think makes the bands.
Speaker 2: I mean, when you talk about Beyonce or The Weekend
Speaker 2: or I don't know anything really about them. Artists I
Speaker 2: know they're huge and people love them, but it doesn't
Speaker 2: seem to me to be the same kind of thing.
Speaker 2: That's show business and rock and roll, and show business
Speaker 2: to me are a little different.
Speaker 3: Rock and roller is kind of like circus folk. Really,
Speaker 3: you know, it's kind of I think that's fair disreputable,
Speaker 3: but it's very out of vogue to be a sort
Speaker 3: of rock and roller. Of course it will. Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 3: I once met Karen a Party from the lead singer
Speaker 3: of the Ya Yes, and we were talking about rock
Speaker 3: music and I said to her something along the lines of,
Speaker 3: you know, oh god, yeah, I know, but I really
Speaker 3: embarrassed to be a you know, a rock and roller.
Speaker 3: And she went, how can you possibly be embarrassed? We're
Speaker 3: like a dying breed, you are. You're fucking being a
Speaker 3: rock and roller. Yeah, it's the coolest, And I was like,
Speaker 3: it totally changed my kind of like view on it.
Speaker 1: It fucking is.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like being like the women that you mentioned,
Speaker 2: Debbie Harry and Susie so Edible, Chrissy Haying. I mean,
Speaker 2: these are fucking seminal artists, and I think that it
Speaker 2: transcends so much rock and roll whan has done right,
Speaker 2: Like it's that feeling of you know, I think it
Speaker 2: was the guy in Son what was what's the name
Speaker 2: of that guy that a head that runs you know
Speaker 2: that band's Son that do the really loud drone metal stuff.
Speaker 2: They're talking about absorbing the sound through your body, not
Speaker 2: just your ears, but like the whole that to me,
Speaker 2: rock and rolls like that since I saw Hawkwind when
Speaker 2: I was thirteen years old in the Glasgow Apollo, just.
Speaker 3: A fucking size of it.
Speaker 1: It's crazy, and I don't think you get that with
Speaker 1: you know, the stadium shows.
Speaker 3: I don't think I agree, but I think it's definitely
Speaker 3: out vogue to voice you know, fury and lust and
Speaker 3: you know, even like Unbridled Joy. It's just uncool for
Speaker 3: some reason. And it's all this very contained pop music
Speaker 3: currently that people are really into. But everybody that you're
Speaker 3: ever going to meet has got streaks of you know,
Speaker 3: darkness in them, and that's what I love music.
Speaker 1: I love what Robert Fripp said about rock and rolling pop.
Speaker 3: Do you ever hear that he's incredible?
Speaker 2: The main fucking invented the guitar solo style. I mean,
Speaker 2: but Robert Fripp said about rodd. He said, the difference
Speaker 2: between pop music and rock and raw is that in
Speaker 2: pop music people fall in love and kiss each other.
Speaker 1: In rock and rall, someone's getting fucked.
Speaker 3: Amazing, amazing.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: It's just when you say, you know, voice and lust
Speaker 2: and fury and and that to me is that's the difference,
Speaker 2: I guess. And so let me take you on a journey,
Speaker 2: if I may, you may back to the we were talking.
Speaker 1: Briefly about the Columbia.
Speaker 3: Hotel in London.
Speaker 1: London.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when I stayed there when I was drumming in
Speaker 2: bands like I guess the early to mid nineteen eighties, which.
Speaker 3: You would have been. I was there.
Speaker 2: You were kicking off with Goodbye mister McKenzie at that time, right,
Speaker 2: we were like they were a sizable band in the
Speaker 2: UK at that time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were doing well.
Speaker 2: And that hotel that's where everyone used to go in
Speaker 2: was the rock and roll hotel.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 2: It was like London's I guess, right High or right
Speaker 2: High wherever it was. I got into a fight there once.
Speaker 3: You're very unruly when you were young. I mean, you're
Speaker 3: unruly enough now.
Speaker 1: No, But I got into a fight with Mark Allman's manager,
Speaker 1: How did you manage that? I don't know, I can't remember.
Speaker 1: It wasn't really a proper fight. I think it was
Speaker 1: a lot of pushing and shoving and stuff, but I
Speaker 1: think we were both out of shape and a bit scared.
Speaker 3: So it was like a lot of move fu you
Speaker 3: fuck you anyway.
Speaker 1: But that and I remember people in the bar.
Speaker 3: Of that hotel getting really twisted. Oh a lot did
Speaker 3: you do A lot of that? Did a lot of that?
Speaker 3: I mean, my first band, good Bye Miss McKenzie, was wild,
Speaker 3: like proper wild ye rock and roll, lifestyle, rock and
Speaker 3: everything has been very tame ever since, to be honest,
Speaker 3: even our wildest days in Garbage had nothing on good
Speaker 3: Bye Mister McKenzie. But yeah, being in that bar. I
Speaker 3: can still really remember that bar in the Columbia Hotel.
Speaker 3: The curtains, the weird curtains, and oh the carpet, and the.
Speaker 1: Carpet was it was like it wasn't really a carpet.
Speaker 1: It was just like old beer and seamen.
Speaker 3: I was just actually going to go somewhere like that.
Speaker 3: But you're right, very crusty.
Speaker 1: It was awful. But I think that the anecdotal part
Speaker 1: of that, I I mean I suppose things move on,
Speaker 1: but does that still exist for young musicians and young
Speaker 1: of course we're still doing that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, although it's apparently the new generation are a lot
Speaker 3: are risk averse. You know, they're just not as wild
Speaker 3: as we all used to be. They're a bit more,
Speaker 3: they know a lot more. But there's still, of course,
Speaker 3: there are still wild sides to the rock and roll business.
Speaker 2: I feel I feel sorry for the younger generation because
Speaker 2: everything is documented.
Speaker 1: So every mistake they make there's it's there they it's
Speaker 1: there forever, you know.
Speaker 3: That's why I think they do temper themselves a little
Speaker 3: more than we. I mean, I would take my top
Speaker 3: off in the bar, you know, at the Columbia Hotel,
Speaker 3: just to be a brat. Well I'm so glad everybody
Speaker 3: else you would say, a great girl, a great gal,
Speaker 3: but you know, a big show offie yea like shocking. First,
Speaker 3: I don't know why I did that, but I did it.
Speaker 3: And now I don't think there's that many.
Speaker 1: You can't do that anymore.
Speaker 2: I think also kids, I don't know, I mean because
Speaker 2: I'm kind of at the get off my lawn age,
Speaker 2: but I kind of see the younger generation.
Speaker 1: I think they're great. I actually think they're great.
Speaker 2: They're great, they're they're they're the challenge, and they're fucking
Speaker 2: they're difficult and they're annoying. So that's good. Everything is
Speaker 2: good in that respect. But I feel sorry for them
Speaker 2: because they are risk of it a little bit. That
Speaker 2: they are a little they place themselves a little too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they're all worried. Apparently there's a lot of
Speaker 3: anxiety and question and I don't know, God, we're getting
Speaker 3: very dark today. No, I don't know, but I feel
Speaker 3: bad for them. And they're not having as much sex
Speaker 3: as we used to have. That's another weird twist to
Speaker 3: the tea.
Speaker 2: Probably avoid antibiotics, but they might not need the answer, right,
Speaker 2: That's what I was thinking.
Speaker 1: But it was an odd environment. I suppose it was
Speaker 1: very kind of back an alien them. And I wonder, now,
Speaker 1: here's an interesting thing because I thought if I was
Speaker 1: looking at that now and if I had a daughter
Speaker 1: in that environment that I was in, so when you
Speaker 1: were a.
Speaker 2: Young girl, i'd be like, oh, I don't know, I
Speaker 2: feel about that. I mean, you would you are tough,
Speaker 2: and I think that's okay.
Speaker 1: But I think there were girls there who weren't tough
Speaker 1: who were like, that'd be fucking scary. There were some
Speaker 1: bad guys around.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's still bad guys around.
Speaker 1: Yes, there are, No, that's true.
Speaker 3: I don't think that's changed any Unfortunately, the percentage of
Speaker 3: you know, dudes that when it hurt girls is perplexing
Speaker 3: to me. I don't understand it. It's really beyond my understanding.
Speaker 1: I mean those people are that's a different thing. I mean, yes,
Speaker 1: they exist. But what I'm thinking more is just the
Speaker 1: general kind of blockerry.
Speaker 3: I mean there is still that unfortunately in the music industry.
Speaker 3: It's really bad actually, but it's not quite as bad
Speaker 3: as it was in the eighties.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's funny. I get out of it
Speaker 1: very quickly.
Speaker 2: I mean I was out of it by the time
Speaker 2: I was twenty one. I wasn't drumming anymore.
Speaker 3: Wow wild Yeah, I wish I could say the same.
Speaker 3: I never got out of it really well.
Speaker 1: I think I regret getting it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes, and then I see how much of drummer
Speaker 2: makes now and I'm like, yeah, you.
Speaker 3: Know, you made a good choice.
Speaker 1: Everybody.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's look at your bank. Why monkeys. But it's
Speaker 3: very free still if you want it. To be being
Speaker 3: a musician can really live pretty freely, and that's the
Speaker 3: greatest gift.
Speaker 1: Does anyone live free? Though? If we're all taking video
Speaker 1: of each other all the time.
Speaker 3: Though, that's getting very profound.
Speaker 2: Well I know, but it's just like we fucking volunteered
Speaker 2: to be in this fucking big brother society.
Speaker 1: We don't even need big Brother. We do it to
Speaker 1: her fucking selves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like you volunteer to We live in this
Speaker 2: giant fucking neighborhood watch scheme.
Speaker 3: We do. And yet there there's so much content now,
Speaker 3: and there's so much testimony. I don't know if you're anymore.
Speaker 3: You know, I feel like you're as anonymous as you
Speaker 3: always wear. I mean, who fucking cares? Yeah, I don't care.
Speaker 3: It's like fucking I don't care if you're watching me
Speaker 3: or filming me. I really don't give a toss.
Speaker 1: Right, Well, that's because you're a rock and roll star.
Speaker 1: But if you were applying for a job and Denny's,
Speaker 1: they're going to fucking google you when you turn up.
Speaker 3: Oh, I see what you're saying. See you with your top.
Speaker 1: Off in the bar and the you know, I think
Speaker 1: she should be actually the hostess so bad, but it's
Speaker 1: it's kind of no.
Speaker 3: I see what you're saying.
Speaker 1: I think it's it's a shame. But I don't know
Speaker 1: what you do.
Speaker 3: But I don't put your tits. So youre are So
Speaker 3: you're on the internet, Well that's really pretty simple. But
Speaker 3: once it's done, it's done.
Speaker 1: I don't know that. So are you too?
Speaker 2: Are you going back to South America and all that
Speaker 2: kind of stuff? Do you live inside the bubble of
Speaker 2: the tour or do you make do you force yourself out?
Speaker 3: And I always insist on going out, and I literally
Speaker 3: send our security guard into like mad anxiety. He can
Speaker 3: hardly handle it. I'm like, I want to go and
Speaker 3: do this, and I want to do that, and I
Speaker 3: want to see this, and yeah, I'm a huge culture whore,
Speaker 3: so I'll go anywhere and do anything. And he just
Speaker 3: has to keep up with me.
Speaker 2: And do you think that helps in the in the
Speaker 2: business of writing and creativity to do that, because I
Speaker 2: always think that if you start writing songs about how
Speaker 2: great you are and how much money you have, you
Speaker 2: lose me a little bit, as I know, audience member.
Speaker 3: But I think it's really inspiring. I mean, I just
Speaker 3: think about our last record, which is arguably the most
Speaker 3: political I've ever gotten. It's not even that political, but
Speaker 3: it was inspired by going to South America and seeing
Speaker 3: what was going on in Chile and basically the people's
Speaker 3: uprising because they just couldn't take the disparity between the
Speaker 3: rich and the poor any longer. And they went out
Speaker 3: into the streets and they bucked shit up and they
Speaker 3: eventually got change in their constitution, which was so inspiring
Speaker 3: to me. It was really moving, and I would never
Speaker 3: ever have had that experience had I not gone down there. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so were you there when it was when it was
Speaker 3: kicking off, and it was wild, and I saw shit
Speaker 3: that I will never recover from, to be honest. Yeah,
Speaker 3: really crazy stuff. We were in traffic, were stuck in
Speaker 3: traffic because it was crazy, and there were literally millions
Speaker 3: of people in the streets. And yeah, we passed a
Speaker 3: police station and they were blaring music and you heard
Speaker 3: someone screaming above the blaring music. And then the government
Speaker 3: was you know, they didn't have clean water, and they
Speaker 3: weren't giving people access to clean water if you weren't rich,
Speaker 3: couldn't afford water. And we were driving through this Chilean
Speaker 3: countryside just outsids Santiago, and there was just fields of
Speaker 3: dead horses because they couldn't and it was really heavy,
Speaker 3: you know, like that is just heavy, heavy stuff, And
Speaker 3: it was just because they had a corrupt government that
Speaker 3: believed that it was fine for the poor to suffer
Speaker 3: as long as they had their wealth. And it just
Speaker 3: put into highlight to me how insane capitalism is and
Speaker 3: how this just obsession with money and power is.
Speaker 2: This is an official invitation to the Fancy Rascal stand
Speaker 2: up Show I Craig Ferguson will be performing this fall
Speaker 2: in your region. You can buy tickets and check out
Speaker 2: the full list of dates at the Craig Ferguson Show
Speaker 2: dot com slash dour see you.
Speaker 1: There or not.
Speaker 2: That's interesting that you would say that capitalism is insane because.
Speaker 3: It kind of the type of capitalism that we have, right.
Speaker 3: I'm not anti capitalist, but it's.
Speaker 2: An interesting thing though, because I remember when I was
Speaker 2: very young, because I'm from Glasgow and you're from Edinburgh,
Speaker 2: and I always thought people from Edinburgh had more money
Speaker 2: than people from Glasgow.
Speaker 3: And I think it's a kind of broad stroke rule
Speaker 3: of thing. It was a richer city, that's true.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a capital and then also just that
Speaker 2: time in the eighties that that kind of was true.
Speaker 2: And then so I had been always raised in a
Speaker 2: very like my grandfather was a red clydesider and all
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. So I was a very socialist
Speaker 2: ethos and everywhere I looked. And the first time did
Speaker 2: you ever go to Russia when the Soviets were in charge,
Speaker 2: because it goes I never did. My sister did, but
Speaker 2: I never did. I only went after it kicked off
Speaker 2: and everything went crazy kind of gangsterism over in like
Speaker 2: the post Soviet boom, capitalism boom, and I remember being there,
Speaker 2: and so someone saying talking about capitalism and saying, the
Speaker 2: problem with capitalism is that requires a reasonably honest police force.
Speaker 2: And if it doesn't doesn't have to be one hundred percent,
Speaker 2: but it has to be reasonably honest. And if it's
Speaker 2: not reasonably honest, you've got Chicago in the nineteen twenties
Speaker 2: or Moscow in the nineteen nineties, or sounds to me.
Speaker 2: I don't know end about child, but but I feel
Speaker 2: like that's interesting.
Speaker 1: If there's a crisis not government police, if there's a
Speaker 1: crisis in police, then you've got a crisis in society
Speaker 1: because if people don't trust the police, or if they
Speaker 1: or if the police aren't trustworthy or both, then that's
Speaker 1: when you get real fucking problems in capitalists or any society.
Speaker 1: I suppose when you think about it.
Speaker 3: And then when you mix that with police and government, yeah,
Speaker 3: you know you're in a lot of trouble.
Speaker 1: Are you an American citizen?
Speaker 3: I am.
Speaker 2: It's funny because I think when you become a citizen,
Speaker 2: you're allowed to participate in that.
Speaker 1: When before I was a citizen, I.
Speaker 3: Would never talk about any politics here.
Speaker 2: I don't really talk about it now actually because I'll
Speaker 2: talk to you about it because we're talking, but I
Speaker 2: would never in the act talk about politics.
Speaker 1: Won't do it.
Speaker 3: But you're also you were in real mainstream like entertainment,
Speaker 3: and I don't know if you're certainly in this country.
Speaker 3: Are you in adverted commas tolerate? It's not tolerated, you.
Speaker 1: Know, that is actually I think if you look at
Speaker 1: what I was doing then, like I was in late.
Speaker 3: Night, but you were there to make people feel good. Yeah,
Speaker 3: if you tossed on about politics.
Speaker 1: That you are all political now they all they're all
Speaker 1: political and like the whole thing is is and to
Speaker 1: even if I was still doing it, to not be
Speaker 1: political would be seen as being political. They would assume
Speaker 1: you were right wing unless.
Speaker 3: You were like being very different climate it is, well,
Speaker 3: I think it started.
Speaker 2: We watched the tv R in about twenty sixteen, because
Speaker 2: I think it kicked off around then.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you might be right. I mean, things
Speaker 3: have just got so polarized, polarized and crazy and unreasonable. Yeah.
Speaker 3: You know, when you talk about reasonable police we don't
Speaker 3: currently have a reasonable police force. We don't even have
Speaker 3: reasonable political parties. They're both unreasonable as far as I
Speaker 3: unconcerned right and the left.
Speaker 1: I think it goes all the way across. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think if you if you think about I had
Speaker 1: friends in my life, I still do have friends in
Speaker 1: my life.
Speaker 3: I find that very hard to be Yea, I have friends.
Speaker 1: Of my people who I think are fucking idiots and
Speaker 1: their views are shit and either're just you know, what
Speaker 1: they think how the world, to be honest is awful.
Speaker 1: But they're my friend.
Speaker 3: What are you going to do?
Speaker 1: So you know, you just I just don't bring that
Speaker 1: up when I'm talking to them. And I wonder, I wonder.
Speaker 2: If that is dying out with the sense of the
Speaker 2: if you have the algorithm that only in your if
Speaker 2: your friendships or your interactions socially are fueled by your phone.
Speaker 1: Or it's just your phone. Let's not talk about computers.
Speaker 1: It's your fucking phone.
Speaker 2: So all your interactions are informed by the algorithm. Will
Speaker 2: show you this because this is what it wants you
Speaker 2: to say. You're being led away from discourse and led
Speaker 2: into you know, furious yeah, yeah, yeah, and the inability
Speaker 2: to debate. Computers can't debate. That's ones are zeros, so
Speaker 2: they don't have they talk about AI. But yeah, it's
Speaker 2: fucking billshit, it's a lie. I don't think it's it's
Speaker 2: not a lie.
Speaker 3: It's a bias, right.
Speaker 2: Right, Okay, yeah, you're right, it's it's it does exist,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't have that thing. It's pop music versus
Speaker 2: rock and roll. It's sure you listen through your ears,
Speaker 2: but but not really. I mean, you talk to a
Speaker 2: deaf person will go to a rock and roll show
Speaker 2: and and love it because you feel it, you know,
Speaker 2: you feel the whole.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't think computers do I think computers
Speaker 1: just hear it?
Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: It's like you it's it's like it's one it's only
Speaker 2: using some of the of the equipment, but not all
Speaker 2: of them.
Speaker 3: Well, indeed, and I think get in there, trust me. Yeah,
Speaker 3: really getting scary, I do.
Speaker 1: I think. I also think the Internet is a phase
Speaker 1: that will go the way of CB radio. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, let's hope.
Speaker 1: So it's never coming back.
Speaker 3: Although I mean it's really handy for so many things.
Speaker 1: Totally agree.
Speaker 3: I love it too. Oh, I love it for some things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I love it for like I love a good,
Speaker 1: you know, dog that can balance a plate on its
Speaker 1: head and stuff.
Speaker 3: And I'm obsessed with the animal videos. It's actually really worrying.
Speaker 3: I might need to go and see somebody about it.
Speaker 1: Do you know what that is?
Speaker 3: Anxiety?
Speaker 1: Sadness, It's it's part of the aging process.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, fair enough. I just love animal videos. Yea.
Speaker 3: I even have animals that I don't like in my house.
Speaker 3: I have a really old dog and I'm obsessed by
Speaker 3: her and I don't know what I'm going to do
Speaker 3: when she decides she is already halfway out the door, yeah,
Speaker 3: and I want to follow her. It's literally that insane.
Speaker 1: I understand that.
Speaker 2: But here's the thing because do you remember Cabbage the
Speaker 2: French bulldog that of course Cabbage sadly shuffled off this
Speaker 2: morll coil about two years ago. It was bad, like
Speaker 2: she lost an eye. First she was I mean she
Speaker 2: was a rescue dog because French bulldogs shouldn't really exist.
Speaker 1: I don't think.
Speaker 3: It was a weird something very odd there.
Speaker 1: And then she had like an extra nipple and a
Speaker 1: weird ass and she was run toy and Milo mouldest
Speaker 1: boy used to say nine nipples, zero fox.
Speaker 2: But when she died, I thought, well that's that's it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and now we have Seamus Fabulous, who was a Jack
Speaker 2: Russell tener.
Speaker 3: They're my favorite breed of dogs.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, they're fucking crazy.
Speaker 3: They're full on.
Speaker 2: Do you know the difference between a Jack Russell and
Speaker 2: a French bulldog? French bulldog people kiss and fall in
Speaker 2: love Russell, somebody's getting fucked. I mean, they are fucking crazy.
Speaker 3: They're not crazy, they're just they don't go along. Yeah,
Speaker 3: they don't give a fuck. And they're wild. I mean
Speaker 3: they're hunters. That's why they were bread.
Speaker 1: They'll go down together, they will.
Speaker 3: And they'll kill it and bring it back to you blood.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good face good Now what kind of dog as
Speaker 1: you doing?
Speaker 3: Jack Russell next?
Speaker 1: See, that's what I'm thinking.
Speaker 3: But she's got a wee bit Chihuaha in her so
Speaker 3: she's quite docile. But she was wild when she was young,
Speaker 3: were you? Yeah, well exactly how are you wilder? Are
Speaker 3: you wild?
Speaker 1: Now? Do you still about wild?
Speaker 3: I am not wild, but I do notice that I'm
Speaker 3: I really really don't give a fuck, and that is
Speaker 3: a wildness in itself. Worse. Yeah, of course, of course
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 1: It's one of the good things about it.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know, It's been really great for my career.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have had this longer career if I was docile.
Speaker 1: No, but but you were beast. But you had to be.
Speaker 1: You had to be, I mean, and you were you
Speaker 1: were when I first saw you perform.
Speaker 2: You're a young woman in this particularly aggressive period of music,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, it's like that.
Speaker 1: All the energy was big and loud and noisy and tough,
Speaker 1: big fucking open ee chords and fucking tom tom drums
Speaker 1: and wait, you're time very tough, and you were.
Speaker 3: Part of that. So of course you are.
Speaker 1: Of course you you become like that I think it's
Speaker 1: great that you're still there.
Speaker 3: I don't know there. Sometimes when I come home from
Speaker 3: dinner parties and things like that, I'm always having the
Speaker 3: conversation with my husband and it's like, did I did
Speaker 3: I embarrass myself tonight? You know?
Speaker 1: No? You no.
Speaker 3: I'll always say did I embarrass you tonight? And he'll
Speaker 3: always say, no, you just embarrass yourself.
Speaker 2: See that's pretty good. That's really why I know, because
Speaker 2: I don't know Billy very well. But what I know
Speaker 2: about Billy is this, Yeah, he's slightly embarrassed all the time.
Speaker 3: No, it's quite the open, yeah, which is why I
Speaker 3: married him.
Speaker 1: He's quiet, He's so quiet, he's got a calm air.
Speaker 3: I want to be like more like Billy do. And
Speaker 3: I have learned to like chill a wee bit because
Speaker 3: of him. Like he is never gives himself away socially.
Speaker 3: Now I know you well enough to know that you
Speaker 3: give yourself away like I do over and over and
Speaker 3: over again.
Speaker 1: The rooms start crying.
Speaker 3: Same thing, And he's just like always like he just
Speaker 3: listens to people. And I find that astounding because I'm
Speaker 3: a broadcaster.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think it's dignity.
Speaker 3: It's dignity and it's powerful and I'm just like like
Speaker 3: a big messy labrador licking everybody's faces, you know. But
Speaker 3: at the same time it takes all sorts. Of course
Speaker 3: it does. And clearly Billy is fond of you. Yeah,
Speaker 3: he loves me. Today it should be a very very
Speaker 3: pitiful lead singer. He'd be crasy. It wouldn't be this
Speaker 3: you want to watch that.
Speaker 2: I got, you know, I have struggle with that sometimes
Speaker 2: when bands watch a band and the singers like shy
Speaker 2: and they're airs in front of the face, I'm like, hey, hey,
Speaker 2: people at the fucking back have paid two pal come on,
Speaker 2: let's fucking see your eyes and teeth.
Speaker 1: Let's go.
Speaker 3: But we grew up with Bruce Forsyth show.
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 3: That's our style. But I'd love to be a floppy,
Speaker 3: shy singer at the front. I mean, I'd love to
Speaker 3: be like that mysterious and everyone going, oh, she's so cool, so.
Speaker 1: Cool and mysterious. Do you think you're cooling? Don't think
Speaker 1: nobody thinks. I think that would be a reach.
Speaker 3: But cool, I'm fucking quite hot, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, but I think look, if I had to,
Speaker 1: if I had no you, Luke, no you you look
Speaker 1: at this if I had if I had a daughter,
Speaker 1: I don't. But if I had a daughter, I'd want
Speaker 1: her to be like you. I'd want her to be
Speaker 1: confident and like fuck you.
Speaker 3: Let's get my dad on the phone show.
Speaker 1: Yeah. See, your dad's an interesting dude, Yes he is.
Speaker 1: You know your dad was the correct me.
Speaker 2: If I'm wrong, I will, which you never fucking shy
Speaker 2: about doing that ever before. But your dad was the
Speaker 2: moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland.
Speaker 1: Is that right?
Speaker 3: No, I don't know if that's true. He certainly was
Speaker 3: a member of.
Speaker 1: That the group of elders, the correct that he was
Speaker 1: an elder there, Yeah, which that which is?
Speaker 2: He did a pretty cool thing though, didn't he wasn't
Speaker 2: he involved in the recognition of gay marriage within that church.
Speaker 3: Well, he certainly voted for that, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: He's a good man, my dad, and he's a bit
Speaker 3: punk rock onto himself. Let me just put it this way.
Speaker 3: He just recently told me he was planning his funeral.
Speaker 3: I am not involved. I'm not allowed to be involved.
Speaker 3: My other two sisters are involved. Do you get to
Speaker 3: Go's what I said? Am I invited to this event?
Speaker 3: And he's also written his own obituary. Who does that?
Speaker 3: Who does that?
Speaker 1: That's a pretty cool thing.
Speaker 3: It's not cool, it's silly. As I said to him, Dad,
Speaker 3: if you've written your own obituary, that's really all good,
Speaker 3: you know. But I will survive you, and I will.
Speaker 3: I can write you, I can write over your a bit.
Speaker 1: That's true. It's kind of a waste.
Speaker 3: It's control, very very cross. When I said that, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's a bit of a control, and I was roaring
Speaker 3: with laughter.
Speaker 1: But he's clearly a very religious man.
Speaker 3: He kind of his faith got shaken during COVID. Oh,
Speaker 3: it was really wild to watch. This is a man
Speaker 3: I grew up with. He was my Sunday school teacher,
Speaker 3: and during COVID his faith kind of deserted him a little.
Speaker 3: It was wild. It's coming back now. I notice.
Speaker 1: Why would COVID have all things?
Speaker 3: He felt like, well, it's interesting should say that, because
Speaker 3: he felt really disillusioned by organized religion. He felt like
Speaker 3: the church just left people to it, like, left them alone,
Speaker 3: didn't support them, didn't find money to bring to the poor. Literally,
Speaker 3: I mean right, I don't know, it sent them off
Speaker 3: into this weird, like we were really shaken by it. Like,
Speaker 3: what's happened to Dad? Is he going to the devil?
Speaker 1: Did you become religious?
Speaker 3: Oh? God?
Speaker 1: No? Well where are you in the whole God thing?
Speaker 3: I don't believe in anything? Really, I think it's very religious,
Speaker 3: is it? Yes?
Speaker 1: Yes, I think that's a very religious thing.
Speaker 3: What on earth do you mean by that?
Speaker 1: Well, here's what I mean by that. If you are,
Speaker 1: would you describe yourself as an atheist?
Speaker 3: Maybe I feel like I'm getting tricked. No, no, no,
Speaker 3: say yes, I would say yeah, I would say I'm
Speaker 3: an atheist. See.
Speaker 1: I think atheism is the most fundamental religious stance that
Speaker 1: human being contained.
Speaker 3: And what do you mean by that? What I mean
Speaker 3: is this what you're saying is I know.
Speaker 2: Socrates wrong, Einstein wrong, Saint Francis of ASSISI wrong, all
Speaker 2: you people in human history that believed in God.
Speaker 3: You're all wrong.
Speaker 1: I'm right, that's an atheist position.
Speaker 3: But I don't disagree with Einstein or Socrates.
Speaker 1: They both believed in God.
Speaker 3: Right, I see what you're saying. Well, we have a
Speaker 3: difference of opinion. Right, they were wrong. Well, here's my
Speaker 3: feeling about religion. I get what you're saying, So it's
Speaker 3: an interesting point, and you've sent me spinning, and I'm
Speaker 3: going to be thinking about this all day. But I
Speaker 3: can't help but think religion has been designed by men
Speaker 3: ye who cannot accept that they really are not that important,
Speaker 3: and it's totally complete construct and so it's really hard
Speaker 3: for me to tune into that and fall in line
Speaker 3: with it.
Speaker 1: You know, Yes, I agree with that, and I think
Speaker 1: you're right. But what I also think is religion is
Speaker 1: not God. Religion is religion.
Speaker 3: Yes, and God. But you asked me if I was religious.
Speaker 2: I did, and so you've tricked me and you run
Speaker 2: the day I did. But I also asked, do you
Speaker 2: believe in God? Or if I didn't, I meant to,
Speaker 2: do you believe in God?
Speaker 3: I believe in dogs? Yeah, I do, somewhere somewhere in
Speaker 3: my face. I mean, I believe in nature right, That
Speaker 3: to me is the only thing really I can believe
Speaker 3: in with any certainty. And of dogs, dogs and nature.
Speaker 1: Dogs are part of nature, of course they are.
Speaker 2: And also I think that is to me, that's more
Speaker 2: to do with God than you know, the idea of
Speaker 2: angry Santa on a cloud.
Speaker 1: Do you go to church? I don't.
Speaker 3: But I built one. What well, we moved You're getting
Speaker 3: right weird on me, now, yeah, no, no, I'm a
Speaker 3: little weird. Get it.
Speaker 1: It's not that I built one, it's that we moved
Speaker 1: house in Scotland. We moved to a place that had
Speaker 1: a bit more land because we wanted to keep some
Speaker 1: horses right.
Speaker 3: And the place that we bought had.
Speaker 2: An old, broken down chapel type building on it. And
Speaker 2: during COVID, I had nothing to fucking do, so I
Speaker 2: kind of.
Speaker 1: Looked at YouTube videos of carpentry and thing and stuff,
Speaker 1: and I thought, that little chapel thing, I'm going to
Speaker 1: put it back, and and I so.
Speaker 2: And I'm not a religious person at all. I'm not
Speaker 2: in part of any organized religion at all. But I thought, well,
Speaker 2: what harm I'm going to do put the little building back.
Speaker 2: Then I found a little bell, so I put the
Speaker 2: bell in the church. Tell me in a local joiner.
Speaker 1: We got up there and put the bell and it's
Speaker 1: a beautiful little church.
Speaker 2: And the guy who works on the place where that
Speaker 2: works on the estate, he's he's very Scottish and he
Speaker 2: said what church is that? Because he's he's from a
Speaker 2: slightly different like I was raised in a Protestant like you, yeah,
Speaker 2: and he was raised as Catholic, which in Scotland is
Speaker 2: you know, it's a big or was a big deal.
Speaker 1: I hope it's not so much, still is for some people.
Speaker 3: But he said to me, so what is it? Then
Speaker 3: I said what do you mean?
Speaker 1: What is it? I said, well, is it Church of
Speaker 1: Scotland or the proper one? And I said it's a
Speaker 1: non denominational Church of Scotland. They said, that's no a church.
Speaker 1: I said, it fucking is.
Speaker 3: Now, it's right there. That's brilliant. So it's just a
Speaker 3: it's a but I got some pews. I bought some
Speaker 3: pews and I.
Speaker 1: Put them in, and like, there's no imagery from anybody's religion,
Speaker 1: but there's some places to set in.
Speaker 3: Some books and stuff, place to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that. The first book I put in
Speaker 1: it was Young's Read.
Speaker 3: Book, How Fantastic?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So which is all different religious imagery and stuff
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 3: Do you when you travel do you go to local churches?
Speaker 3: Because I do all the time. I don't.
Speaker 1: Actually I should do that. I used to kind of
Speaker 1: do that a little bit in Europe, but I haven't
Speaker 1: done it in America so much.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, they're not quite as grand as they are
Speaker 3: in Europe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah, when you do that, So like when
Speaker 2: you go to South so you've seen a lot of
Speaker 2: Catholic churches then for a Protestant, yeah, a.
Speaker 3: Lot of cathedrals. And I love it. I have to say, like,
Speaker 3: I don't know why I'm drawn to it. So there
Speaker 3: must be some weird like pool from me with religion,
Speaker 3: of course, of course, because the impulse.
Speaker 2: Look, capitalism in and of itself is not evil, but
Speaker 2: people could use it for evil.
Speaker 1: Religion in and of itself I don't believe is even of.
Speaker 3: Course used, although it was constructed to control the people,
Speaker 3: the poor. That's that's where religion basically began as a
Speaker 3: way of control, at least in I don't like relatively
Speaker 3: modern history.
Speaker 1: I think. I think in modern times, I think that's true.
Speaker 2: But I think the impulse to try and figure it
Speaker 2: out or to recognize the larger thing, I don't know
Speaker 2: about that.
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think when the when the
Speaker 1: Roman Empire co opted Christianity, I think that was a
Speaker 1: power move for sure, that was perc and certainly a
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of different religions have done that,
Speaker 1: But I'm not so sure about it anymore. I used
Speaker 1: to be a lot sure about it, and I'm not.
Speaker 1: Like as I built my wee church and I thought, well,
Speaker 1: who am I a pressing here? Well, nobody, I am
Speaker 1: a local joiner to help me put the.
Speaker 3: Bail up pressing.
Speaker 1: I don't want to oppress anybody. I don't think. I
Speaker 1: don't want to even people I don't agree with.
Speaker 3: What then, what is your relationship to Like, why are
Speaker 3: you a comedian? Because that is a that is something
Speaker 3: you're honest truth, I don't I fell into it.
Speaker 1: I think that.
Speaker 3: But you've been doing it long enough.
Speaker 1: I have been doing it for a long time. I
Speaker 1: think that.
Speaker 2: I just it was very forgiving of a lifestyle that
Speaker 2: I had when I started that. You know, you could
Speaker 2: be fucking hammered and late and still kind of get by,
Speaker 2: certainly in the early days.
Speaker 3: You can't now, like you've just finished a tour here
Speaker 3: in North America. I like doing it. I know, I
Speaker 3: love doing Why do you like doing it?
Speaker 2: It's my instrument, it's my band, it's my it's my guitar,
Speaker 2: it's my Keith Richards.
Speaker 1: It's like I play the guitar. I go there and
Speaker 1: I play it. It's what I do.
Speaker 3: What is it doing?
Speaker 1: It's fulfilling an emotional and financial need.
Speaker 3: I think, well, aside from the finances, I mean, you
Speaker 3: have to make a living.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: As you've gotten older, surely you must have a different
Speaker 3: idea of why you do what you do than you
Speaker 3: did when you were younger.
Speaker 1: No, I do I feel alive when I do it.
Speaker 1: Do you remember the movie Chariots of Fire? Of course,
Speaker 1: it's great, beautiful Edinburgh feeling in that movie. And when
Speaker 1: Ian Charleston, who plays I can't remember the ad.
Speaker 3: Ian, Oh god, damn it. The Runner, Yeah, the.
Speaker 2: Runner, beautiful Scottich runner who wouldn't run on a Sunday.
Speaker 1: I yes, I think I think it was something like that.
Speaker 1: He wouldn't run on a Sunday.
Speaker 2: That was the story that he was a Scottish athlete
Speaker 2: the Olympics in the nineteen and he wouldn't run on
Speaker 2: a Sunday because of his faith.
Speaker 1: And somebody asked him about it. His sister is what
Speaker 1: it was, says in the movie. It's a great line
Speaker 1: in the movie.
Speaker 2: Because he wanted to be a missionary in China, and
Speaker 2: in fact he did become a missionary in China and
Speaker 2: died there. But he says this line about running and
Speaker 2: about China. His sister says, you should be a missionary,
Speaker 2: and he said, I know. He said, I believe God
Speaker 2: made me for a purpose, and that purpose is China.
Speaker 2: But when I run, I feel his pleasure, and I
Speaker 2: feel like I feel a little bit like I'm connected
Speaker 2: to something when I do stand up.
Speaker 3: But you must enjoy. But yeah, of course, like as
Speaker 3: I've gotten older, I'm like, oh, I'm actually in service.
Speaker 3: I'm basically, you know, I'm here to make people feel
Speaker 3: better than when they walked in. Yeah, and then when
Speaker 3: it's gotten clearer and clearer for me, that, oh, that's
Speaker 3: my service and this is such a great thing to do.
Speaker 3: Is a purpose for me, right, And I just imagine
Speaker 3: that if you you literally are going on stage to
Speaker 3: make people laugh, it's the same thing. That connection with
Speaker 3: people's it's a sense of purpose. It's like, which is
Speaker 3: like organized religion in a way it's it is. I'm
Speaker 3: not conflating by the way what we do with practicing,
Speaker 3: you know, organized faith. I'm not deigning to do that.
Speaker 3: I just mean the parallel.
Speaker 2: I think it's a good I think It's an interesting
Speaker 2: way to look at it because there are parallels. There
Speaker 2: are little rituals, you know, there are little things that
Speaker 2: make people feel comfortable. You go to the merch table,
Speaker 2: you get a warm beer in a plastic glass. There's
Speaker 2: your communion. You go into the room. It smells of
Speaker 2: weed and sweat, you know, yeah, and bum yeah.
Speaker 3: You hear that.
Speaker 2: Of the ams before the music starts going through them.
Speaker 2: There there are rituals.
Speaker 1: There's the whole thing of we were talking about this
Speaker 1: earlier actually that the idea of the on war for
Speaker 1: rock acts is like, will they do an extra song?
Speaker 1: I think they will?
Speaker 3: They do so annoying. I keep saying to my band,
Speaker 3: let's not do an OnCore tonight, please, Can we just
Speaker 3: do this set right? And they're like, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: we have to do the OnCore. And I can't stand
Speaker 3: an encore unless it's really warranted. I mean there's occasionally,
Speaker 3: and I can count the warranted times, maybe five times
Speaker 3: in my whole career, but we really warranted an encore. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I know, so dumb.
Speaker 2: But you know, when I was going to see bands
Speaker 2: when I was a kid, and I assume you were
Speaker 2: doing the same when the band did an encore. It
Speaker 2: was like when they came on and said good evening,
Speaker 2: Glasgow or Edinburgh, this is our.
Speaker 1: Favorite time to playing, and you'd be like it is
Speaker 1: their favorite town to playing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true, true.
Speaker 1: You feel like it feels special. It's part of being
Speaker 1: live with the band. It's not TV, it's not a record.
Speaker 3: No, it's very special live. But it's when I was younger,
Speaker 3: I guess I thought it was all about me and
Speaker 3: what I'm trying to get at. It's just that ideas.
Speaker 3: As I've gotten older and older, it's so not about
Speaker 3: me anymore. It's like you're making if your challenge, Shirley
Speaker 3: Anne Manson is to make people feel good tonight and
Speaker 3: let's see if you can do it. And it feels
Speaker 3: like a challenge to me. And when when I step
Speaker 3: out into a hostile audience, I'm liking my brain, I'll
Speaker 3: whin you over. Oh I'm going to make you feel
Speaker 3: good And it's such a great feeling.
Speaker 1: I know, I fucking know that it's the weirdest thing.
Speaker 3: And I think only twisted Scottish people.
Speaker 1: I think people who are true performers respond to that.
Speaker 2: Like I noticed that with like in my business it's comedians,
Speaker 2: but I've seen it with rock stars too, or rock
Speaker 2: musicians even, or any musician that you go out in
Speaker 2: front of an audience and you fail badly, and then
Speaker 2: you go and do it again, and you go and
Speaker 2: do it again, and I think, I.
Speaker 3: Do I like this. I don't like it like a
Speaker 3: little bit. There's something in it.
Speaker 1: I fucking like it's failure.
Speaker 3: It's weird. It's weird.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like that now when I look at young performers
Speaker 2: and they go on YouTube and they don't fail because
Speaker 2: they make it a little bit and they put it
Speaker 2: out and it's good.
Speaker 1: They're not standing in.
Speaker 2: Front of you know, three hundred drunk Lasswegians who are
Speaker 2: it's not even a comedy club. It's like, all right,
Speaker 2: it's a disco stop for a minute, and now here's
Speaker 2: some asshole thinks he's funny, and then you like, they're
Speaker 2: not cheering when you walk on.
Speaker 3: I think what you do is really scary. It's really
Speaker 3: really scary. So I would imagine the adrenaline rush must
Speaker 3: be so intense.
Speaker 1: Do you know it's funny? Now? No? I wonder do
Speaker 1: you get an adrenaline rush when you're on stage?
Speaker 3: Not really, not anymore.
Speaker 1: No, I see I don't either. I go to it different.
Speaker 3: I get Yeah, it's a different thing.
Speaker 1: It's like I remember once, when it was years and
Speaker 1: years and years and years ago, I read an interview
Speaker 1: with Michael Jackson, and it was how weird he was.
Speaker 1: It was not about how weird he was, and there
Speaker 1: was one or two of those and.
Speaker 2: Certainly things going on, but in the interview he said
Speaker 2: he felt so comfortable performing that he could sleep on stage.
Speaker 2: And I remember at the time thinking that is the
Speaker 2: strangest fucking thing I've ever heard. What a twisted, crazy mind.
Speaker 2: And now when I get on stage, now I'm.
Speaker 3: Ready for a snoozl quite but I relax.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like now I can It's like getting into
Speaker 1: the bath or something.
Speaker 3: Maybe I'm like being good at something. Yeah, when you're young,
Speaker 3: you don't know that you can do something really until
Speaker 3: you've done ten thousand hours of it, and then you're like,
Speaker 3: I can gut it.
Speaker 1: Just what Tony Hawk was saying the other day when
Speaker 1: yeah he was talking about the ten thousand hours.
Speaker 3: I love Tony Hawk.
Speaker 1: Oh he's fantastic. Yeah, he's fantastic.
Speaker 3: He really is.
Speaker 2: He's very, very interesting dude, and that the same thing,
Speaker 2: there's another guy. In order to do what he did,
Speaker 2: you gotta fail over and over after fail fail fail,
Speaker 2: fail fail. What I think is is a little bit
Speaker 2: of a I worry for the younger generation is they
Speaker 2: don't get to fail. And you got to because at
Speaker 2: some point you're going to fail, But you don't get
Speaker 2: to fail in private. You don't get to fail in
Speaker 2: the dark little comedy club. You don't get to fail
Speaker 2: without someone filming it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Your humiliation is online, it's there for your failure is permanent.
Speaker 3: But they also have this strange attitude I've noticed and
Speaker 3: I've seen it with some of the young ones in
Speaker 3: my life, is that they think they should be the
Speaker 3: CEO of any company that you know. They get a
Speaker 3: job as a tea and coffee runner and they're literally like,
Speaker 3: well when am I going to get promotion? After like
Speaker 3: two weeks? It's like, you know, you really have to
Speaker 3: just stick in their kid, Oh, you're going to be
Speaker 3: there for a while.
Speaker 2: It's like you're going to be fighting Mark Allman's manager
Speaker 2: in the Columbia Hotel.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: But they've got this weird, twisted idea of what of
Speaker 3: doing well is and they all think they should be
Speaker 3: famous and I know, have tons of followers and be influential.
Speaker 3: It's really strange. It's not good.
Speaker 1: It's been around for a while.
Speaker 2: I'm I ember seen a trailer for Justin Bieber, the
Speaker 2: Justin Bieber movie, when he was about eighteen, and there
Speaker 2: was this tree.
Speaker 1: I didn't watch the movie because I watched it. I'm
Speaker 1: not in the demographic, but either it's actually really well,
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 2: Good movie, but I was watching the trailer, and then
Speaker 2: the trailer, which is of course not the movie, this
Speaker 2: voiceover says.
Speaker 1: They said he'd never make it, and.
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, how long did they say that? Well,
Speaker 3: he's fucking sixteen, Like who said it? Yeah, who said it?
Speaker 2: That's fucking ridiculous that everything has to be an epic
Speaker 2: and everything has to be, you know, Madison Square Garden.
Speaker 1: By the time you're.
Speaker 2: Eighteen, you know that you don't understand it should be
Speaker 2: Keith Richards Madison Square Garden or the fucking Dog and
Speaker 2: Duck and eel Pie Island, doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: You've got the guitar in your hand.
Speaker 3: I noticed a weird thing though, at the Oscars this year,
Speaker 3: where Lady Gaga performed, and I actually thought it was
Speaker 3: really clever over like she just I think she's great too.
Speaker 3: But she took off foll her makeup and was just
Speaker 3: in sort of like how we dress, you know, like
Speaker 3: how we dressed when we were young, like just jeans
Speaker 3: and a T shirt, no makeup, you know. But then
Speaker 3: she tells this we story before she starts singing, which is,
Speaker 3: you know, I wrote this song in my basement and
Speaker 3: blah blah blah, and I'm thinking of herself. Wait, hold
Speaker 3: on a minute. We all know Lady Gaga is fucking loaded, right,
Speaker 3: and she lives in a mansion, right, and she wrote
Speaker 3: that song in this timeline that we're all aware of,
Speaker 3: Like we all know that you became famous ten years
Speaker 3: ago at this point, and so the basement that you're
Speaker 3: writing your song in is in the basement of a
Speaker 3: huge mansion. But the story isn't beautiful, right. So our stories,
Speaker 3: all of us, came from a generation where people we
Speaker 3: really did make records and write in disgusting like Midriy
Speaker 3: Street basements and it's cool, right, But this new generation
Speaker 3: they don't have that poetry because everything goes so fast.
Speaker 3: They're famous within a nanosecond, really, and then if they're
Speaker 3: smart and they've got good material, they'll stay on top,
Speaker 3: so they get bored of it in a way. I
Speaker 3: just thought this was really interesting construct again of like
Speaker 3: authenticicity and you know punk rock ethos, which they clearly admire,
Speaker 3: but they've had no they've not had any contact with it.
Speaker 2: I wonder if I'm making any sense, I make a
Speaker 2: total I'm just gonna yes, and in you, I wonder
Speaker 2: if that the ones that really are.
Speaker 1: Involved in the poetry, you and I don't know about them.
Speaker 1: They're hiding from us.
Speaker 3: I know that for a fact.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're They're in basements in Akron, Ohi or Detroit,
Speaker 1: Michigan or fucking you know, in New York or New
Speaker 1: Jersey or Glasgow or Edinburgh, and we don't know about it.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying they don't exist. I'm just saying how
Speaker 3: interesting it was to have this huge star pretend that
Speaker 3: they were smaller than they were. It was just I
Speaker 3: can't explain. I really can't articulate this because it's just
Speaker 3: come to me as we were speaking. No, I thought
Speaker 3: it was fascinating.
Speaker 2: I think you, I think you are articulating it very well,
Speaker 2: and I think it is fascinating. I think what it
Speaker 2: is is that at a certain point I got to
Speaker 2: this in my own life, and I wonder if it
Speaker 2: happened to you when garbage was at the absolute, fucking,
Speaker 2: the supersonic part of your career. And we all know,
Speaker 2: any of us who have survived more than six months
Speaker 2: in this business know that that comes and it goes.
Speaker 2: It comes and it goes, and it's quite a fucking ride,
Speaker 2: and that's part of the fun. Yeah, but I want
Speaker 2: there was a point in my life where I went
Speaker 2: I was walking Across'll tell you what it was. Actually,
Speaker 2: I was walking across the tarmac to an airplane that
Speaker 2: I owned, and I thought.
Speaker 1: You know what, I don't think this is for me.
Speaker 1: I don't think this is right.
Speaker 2: I don't think this is I don't think this is
Speaker 2: as cool as I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 2: I think that I think sixteen year old me would
Speaker 2: be impressed. But I'm fucking fifty two and this is
Speaker 2: not cool.
Speaker 3: See. This is why I love you, because you're the
Speaker 3: only person I've ever heard say that kind of stuff
Speaker 3: to me. Because I feel a wee bit like that,
Speaker 3: And in fact, I was just talking about this yesterday,
Speaker 3: when we were at the peak of our height of success.
Speaker 3: I was embarrassed because I thought my teenage self would
Speaker 3: think I was a fucking RS piece. It's cheesy, Like
Speaker 3: I felt like all these the whole sort of hysteria
Speaker 3: that surrounded success, like all of a sudden, tabloid photographers.
Speaker 3: You know, we're taking my photographs at airports, and I
Speaker 3: was like breaking up with my husband and there was
Speaker 3: somebody taking our photographs really distressing and vile, and I
Speaker 3: was just like, this is so uncool and so awful
Speaker 3: and dehumanizing, and I just don't admire it. I wish
Speaker 3: I did admire it more, but I don't. Like I
Speaker 3: don't sit and look at a lot of these celebrities
Speaker 3: and go, wow, you're so cool. No, none of them,
Speaker 3: almost non of them. There's a few that managed to
Speaker 3: carry it off, sure, but for the most part, it
Speaker 3: is like, oh, it's funny going on here.
Speaker 1: No, I totally get it.
Speaker 2: I think that there was Once I got a phone
Speaker 2: call from Steve Jones, the guitarist, Yes Pistols, right, So
Speaker 2: Jones calls me you. I've known jonesy for years, and
Speaker 2: the Pistols were getting back together to do this. They
Speaker 2: were doing this shown at the Roxy.
Speaker 1: I think it was. This is a few years ago,
Speaker 1: like maybe fifteen years ago or something to ten or fifteen.
Speaker 3: I remember this actually, and Minus said, obviously.
Speaker 2: Right, Minus said, but Matt Locke was doing it. So
Speaker 2: they were getting back together and Jonesy called up said
Speaker 2: would you you come and introduce it? And now sixteen
Speaker 2: year old May, that's like getting a call.
Speaker 3: From God, Yeah, that's incredible.
Speaker 2: But I couldn't do it because I was doing a
Speaker 2: corporate gig for T Mobile and lesbigas.
Speaker 1: Oh god.
Speaker 3: I remember when I was going out to talk to
Speaker 3: the the night of the show.
Speaker 2: I'm doing the corporate kick for T Mobile in Las
Speaker 2: Vegas and I'm walking out. There's all these guys in
Speaker 2: this and I can smell the fucking shitty lobster in
Speaker 2: the room and I have a It's fucking horrendous, and
Speaker 2: I felt awful about it, and I was like, just
Speaker 2: what the fuck happened to me?
Speaker 3: Man?
Speaker 1: I spoke to Jon about it a couple of weeks later,
Speaker 1: and he went, it's.
Speaker 3: Just what we was doing. We're doing it for the
Speaker 3: fucking money.
Speaker 1: I went, oh, yeah, I suppose so and he let
Speaker 1: me off the hook.
Speaker 3: It's a good story. He still got the good story out. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I got that.
Speaker 1: Highlights it right, Yeah, a little bit.
Speaker 3: That to me, it completely explains the discomfort of realizing,
Speaker 3: like this is just not who I want to be.
Speaker 1: But none of that ship matters. What matters is is
Speaker 1: the feeling you get when you hear the fucking amschoo
Speaker 1: and you fucking walk out and the audience is there
Speaker 1: and you know what you can do and I've seen
Speaker 1: you fucking do it, and you walk out and you
Speaker 1: fucking get a my in your hand and here we go,
Speaker 1: here we go, and here we fucking go, and that's
Speaker 1: the ride and everything else it's fucking gravy. It's it's
Speaker 1: sugar sprinkles.
Speaker 3: Strangely, the thing I love the most is being in
Speaker 3: my dressing room and you can hear the crowd. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's my favorite moment. Like yeah, like it doesn't get
Speaker 3: better than that. Like for me, that's it. It's like
Speaker 3: the anticipation and that excitement you hear them all speaking
Speaker 3: and laughing and shouting. I don't know, I just love that.
Speaker 3: I totally understand that.
Speaker 1: I have a memory of doing a gig in la,
Speaker 1: which I love you for and I will always love
Speaker 1: you for. Because I was going out, I was playing
Speaker 1: the Ace Hotel.
Speaker 3: I remember it well.
Speaker 2: I was doing I remember because I was in that
Speaker 2: you have a laugh, that's this thing you were going to. No, no,
Speaker 2: it's not even about the laugh. It's not even about
Speaker 2: the laugh. It's before it. What I did was I
Speaker 2: remember the intro music I had at the Ace Theater
Speaker 2: was the Cramps playing Let's Get Fucked Up. And it
Speaker 2: starts off with the drums going like that, just fucking
Speaker 2: rolls out like that. And I heard you going, yeah.
Speaker 1: The audience, I heard your voice that would fucking right, fucking.
Speaker 3: Right, here we go, here we go. And it is that.
Speaker 2: It's that there's like everything falls away in those moments
Speaker 2: of performance. I think everything falls away, and the planes
Speaker 2: and the money and the fucking and the paparazzi photographers
Speaker 2: and the resentments and the fear and everything fucking disappears.
Speaker 3: And that's that's why I do it, and I think
Speaker 3: that's why you do it. Yeah, I think so. Although
Speaker 3: I've never had a personal plane, I would quite like one.
Speaker 3: I must have been.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you'd be surprised. I would quite like you'd be surprised.
Speaker 1: You'd be surprised.
Speaker 3: I totally understand what you're saying, and I love you
Speaker 3: for that. I think I can I can find that
Speaker 3: talk to you. I understand it must be weird, so weird,
Speaker 3: but I mean, you've had such a insane career and
Speaker 3: you've seen things that's a few people have, you know,
Speaker 3: and like you talk about these massive you know, like
Speaker 3: you say, you're on late night TV. That's huge. I
Speaker 3: don't really get much bigger than that in America. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean it's weird.
Speaker 1: I remember talking to somebody.
Speaker 2: I was talking to somebody about this the other day
Speaker 2: because they were talking about how I left, and I said, yeah,
Speaker 2: but because I didn't, you know, it wasn't a thing
Speaker 2: to me. And this if you look at the people
Speaker 2: who have left, like after shortagh period of the time
Speaker 2: I left, James Corden left, Trevor Noah left. We're not
Speaker 2: from here. John Oliver left, We're not from here. So
Speaker 2: we didn't grow up with that. Johnny Carson is the
Speaker 2: way you have to be. It's like it's a gig
Speaker 2: and you do a tough gig. Yeah, it's a lot
Speaker 2: of tough. It's a concept help. Yeah, but it's you know,
Speaker 2: it's Rick Wakeman Journey to the Center of the Earth.
Speaker 2: It's the full Cape and Orchestra.
Speaker 3: And you're being self depreciating. But to be fair, that
Speaker 3: is a tough gig, you know, is it?
Speaker 1: Though?
Speaker 3: It's tough, Like you're cleaning floors for a living. That's
Speaker 3: a tough that's a tough job. Or you know, you're
Speaker 3: a nurse. That's a tough job. But but that's not
Speaker 3: to say that what you do in these positions is
Speaker 3: not I don't know, it's exhausting.
Speaker 2: I would imagine it is exhausting. It's emotionally exhausting and
Speaker 2: I and that is true.
Speaker 3: But being an intellectually you have to be intellectually awake,
Speaker 3: you know, every night.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a lot, it is. It's a lot, but
Speaker 1: it's I didn't do it for I did it for
Speaker 1: ten years. That's that.
Speaker 3: Well, that's a long time.
Speaker 1: It's long enough for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And do you I mean, surely when maybe.
Speaker 1: My podcast early I meant to ask you.
Speaker 3: I know, but I haven't seen you in so long.
Speaker 3: I'm dying to ask questions when you decided to leave?
Speaker 3: And you know, because I can remember thinking Wow, he's
Speaker 3: going to go back to Scotland. That's intense because it's
Speaker 3: like coming off an escalator. Yeah yeah, so for a
Speaker 3: while you're moving at the same speed as it's challenging.
Speaker 3: So what was like what happened? Like I'm assuming you
Speaker 3: were just moving moving? You got that incredible house, which
Speaker 3: I don't think i'll ever forget, was so beautiful, and
Speaker 3: you have this amazing lie, and you had chickens and
Speaker 3: a really domesticated, beautiful life. I still have that, of course,
Speaker 3: I know you do. But at some point there must
Speaker 3: have been the jolt when you get off the escalator
Speaker 3: of like, whoa, what the hell? Like, where do I
Speaker 3: put all my energy, my talents, my do you know
Speaker 3: what I mean? You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 2: That's why I built a fucking church, you know. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's it's like you you have to put it somewhere.
Speaker 2: But also, I don't know if you've experienced this, there
Speaker 2: was a point where I became discouraged, of course, just
Speaker 2: with everything. Yeah, I was burnt out and it was
Speaker 2: after late night and I've just discouraged. I didn't know
Speaker 2: why I made some TV shows I probably shouldn't have
Speaker 2: made it. You know, I wrote a book, which I'm
Speaker 2: proud of, but there was Yeah, it was a change
Speaker 2: of pace.
Speaker 1: It was difficult.
Speaker 3: Did you never experience that? Absolutely experienced experience it just
Speaker 3: around about our fourth record and we couldn't put food right,
Speaker 3: you know, And and that happens to musicians all the time,
Speaker 3: but when it happens to you, you're just like, I
Speaker 3: literally thought, this is the end of the world. And
Speaker 3: I am forty years old. I was forty and I
Speaker 3: will never get back up on that pony because they
Speaker 3: don't let women back on the pony. And then enough
Speaker 3: years past, my mom died and we had been on
Speaker 3: hiatus for about five years, which is a long time.
Speaker 3: I was on a TV show, I played a tour right,
Speaker 3: and that kind of kept me busy for a while
Speaker 3: and brought in the excitement that was used to as
Speaker 3: a musician. But then that came to an end and
Speaker 3: my mum died, and then I was like, all right,
Speaker 3: what now? And I just went to Coachella one year
Speaker 3: and I was looking at the everything and thinking, what
Speaker 3: they're fussing about this band? And I'm sitting here rotting
Speaker 3: on my couch. No longer will this be the case,
Speaker 3: and I just called the band up and I was
Speaker 3: basically sort of like, come on, let's let's work just
Speaker 3: for the sake of working. Doesn't matter. If it's not
Speaker 3: top ten, doesn't matter, you know. If we don't sell
Speaker 3: a million records, who cares? As long as we enjoy
Speaker 3: doing the pursuit of what it was that we fell
Speaker 3: in love with.
Speaker 1: And that's when you become Keith Rechards.
Speaker 3: Well, that's when you're Yeah, you're freed and you've never
Speaker 3: been before.
Speaker 1: You're free because they don't know you. Ye, And that's
Speaker 1: what I think the truth is.
Speaker 3: Look, I'm sixty fucking years old, but you look good.
Speaker 2: But here's the thing. I'm sixty years old. It's not
Speaker 2: whatever fucking way you cut it. It's not the first day.
Speaker 2: And this is I've said this to audiences and I
Speaker 2: mean it like I'll go out and say to an audience, Look,
Speaker 2: I've done a lot of shows, and I've fucking won
Speaker 2: of wars, and I've made a lot of money and
Speaker 2: I'll be very successful. So if this show sucks tonight,
Speaker 2: it's fucking you. It's like that, Yeah, and it's true.
Speaker 3: That's brilliant. You know, the evidence is good at what
Speaker 3: I do. You want to have a good time. That's great,
Speaker 3: fucking relaxed that he's got it. Yeah, you know, I
Speaker 3: mean it's.
Speaker 1: It's I can do this.
Speaker 3: I love that, and I love that and I'm cool.
Speaker 1: I mean it.
Speaker 3: Do you feel that when you work out? But I've
Speaker 3: never vocalized it as well as you just have sing it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's so good. It's a really nice feeling. And I
Speaker 3: guess that's why when I do do shows now and
Speaker 3: I walk out and people you can and you see
Speaker 3: them immediately, right. You can look into a massive audience
Speaker 3: and go, well, there's the cunt that hates me, and
Speaker 3: it's only here because his girlfriend wants to be and
Speaker 3: blah blah blah. Yeah, and for some reason, you can
Speaker 3: really focus on singular people. I don't think audiences understand that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you see them.
Speaker 3: They don't think you're looking at them. And you see
Speaker 3: all kinds of things going on. People picking their nose,
Speaker 3: you know, looking at their phones, you know whatever. Oh
Speaker 3: he's off to the bar to get a drink. I mean,
Speaker 3: you catch it all. It's really wild. But now it
Speaker 3: used to bother me when people won't pay attention and
Speaker 3: not appreciate what we were doing. And now it's just
Speaker 3: I said earlier, it's just sort of like everything's good.
Speaker 3: We've got this'rye.
Speaker 1: You are the joy.
Speaker 3: You are a joy, Craig Ferguson, is so great to
Speaker 3: see you.
Speaker 1: Thank thank you for on your podcast.
Speaker 3: You're welcome.
Speaker 1: Problem.
Speaker 3: Have I see me in it again next time?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Not all befo