WEBVTT - Shirley Manson 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:01.040 Hello everybody. 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:03.520 This is Craig Ferguson letting you know that my Fancy 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:06.920 Rascal Tour continues throughout the fall of twenty twenty three. 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:09.960 For a full list of dates and tickets, please go 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:13.520 to my website, the Craig Ferguson Show dot com slash tour. 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.120 My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:23.880 is Joy. I talk to interest in people about what 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:25.880 brings them happiness. 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:30.760 Here's one of my old friends. Her name is Shirley Mans. 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:34.960 She's the lead singer with a band called Garbage. I 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:38.400 first met her she was the lead singer of Oh 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:41.320 Well You'll find out enjoy. 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:46.120 I'll just say nice things about you. But if I 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:49.720 say nice things about you now, no, because I don't 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:51.760 want to say nice things about you, know, because you're Scottish, 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:53.120 so you'll get angry at me. 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:58.160 You saying nice things about I've been living here for 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:00.639 a long time now, though, I like do. 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.160 They try and take your Scottishness away from you when 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:04.320 you go to be ridiculous? 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:06.039 So they do it to me? What do you mean? 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:10.080 Sometimes I think it's because you're from Edinburgh. Edinburgh people, No. 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:13.000 That's not true. That's not it. 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:17.920 No, no, that is not true. You are super famous, 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:19.720 you are. 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:21.720 This is great. 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:24.200 Well, good night everybody, good night, We're done here. 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:27.479 I think in the Edinburgh side of things, I think 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:28.560 people are nicer about it. 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:29.759 I think in Glasgow they. 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:32.520 Try and say are your accents you're not even Scottish anymore. 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:34.720 But I think in Edinburgh there like, no, it's okay, 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:37.920 you can, you can. You're allowed to be successful elsewhere 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:40.240 and then come back to Edinburgh. Lots of people do it, 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:42.000 but in Glasgow to get fucking mad at you. 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:44.160 Yeah, that's the thing. That's probably fair. They're a little 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:44.760 bit easier on you. 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:45.800 And yeah they are. 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:47.600 They've got me ship over the years. 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:52.120 Well, you can't get tenured. You're now tenured. You're now 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:54.200 a rock star that's tenured as rock star. 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:57.360 But you can't get to that point without getting going 0:01:57.400 --> 0:02:00.400 through the I like to call it the Zar Doors period. 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.280 Like even Sean Connery had to go through the Mangini 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:07.800 before he became finally tenured. True, you know what I 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:09.480 wanted to talk to you about today. I was just 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:11.040 thinking when I was coming here to day, I want 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:12.639 to talk to silly about there's a couple of things. 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:16.560 One is the Columbia Hotel God, which was we'll get 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:18.840 to And the other thing is you being one hundred 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:19.560 percent Viking. 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:22.119 Yeah, that's the weirdest thing. 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:24.600 I Like, you did a twenty three and meion, you're 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:27.600 one hundred percent one thing Viking. 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:29.400 Which is really unusual in this d Dane. 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:31.520 I suppose Viking is a verb, isn't it. 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:33.760 It's like, I don't know what that meant. I don't 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:36.760 think I'm Dane per se right, I'm not sure one 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:38.240 hundred percent what they meant by that. 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:42.320 Yeah, you do have kind of a warrior spirit, you 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.400 know what I mean. It's like, even like as a performer, 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:46.080 even when I. 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:47.800 Saw you when you were like a kid, when I 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:49.200 was a kid and you were a kid, I was 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:49.720 less of. 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.280 A kid than you were, but not that much, not 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:52.840 by much. 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:55.160 But I remember, like even seeing you back then when 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:57.799 you were with the cool kids, you still had that 0:02:57.919 --> 0:02:58.359 kind of. 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.840 Like like you were tough girl. I guess you had 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:03.480 to be back I think, well. 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:07.480 I am tough, Yeah you are, for sure, and I 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:10.840 am redheaded, and I am aware that I am in 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:14.480 tune with my Viking for sure. 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:18.000 Did you think because rock music is very fucking His 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:22.400 horror was like a rugby thing, almost the way guys are. Actually, 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:24.960 I was reading that the thing recently that Courtney Love 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:26.760 wrote about the. 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:31.000 Rock and Rock Hall of Fame. Yeah, it'st fucking ballocks, 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:32.959 that is. Do you know that I went to the 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:34.760 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and I was looking around. 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.960 I was in Cleveland, and you know, there's limited things 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:40.480 to do. I was walking around the Rock and Hall 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:42.680 of Fame and I saw an exhibit and it was 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:44.600 like Buddy Holly exhibit. And I was like, oh, yeah, 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:46.320 Buddy Holly is a seminal artist. 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:48.040 And I was looking at it and they had his 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:50.400 glasses and I was looking at his glasses and I thought, wait, 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:52.800 in a fucking minute, wasn't he wearing his glasses in 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:56.440 the plane? These aren't a fucking because they were intact. 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:58.640 If they were his glasses, they surely would have been broken. 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:00.360 I'm going to just throw this out there, and this 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:04.800 is more than I don't know. 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:09.360 I'm not sure. I think they went to a fucking 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:13.840 eye doctors. They went to like a specsaver. Give us 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:15.800 a pair of the Buddy Holly, we'll put it in 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:16.400 the museum. 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:18.200 When we when I was at school, we did a 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:22.359 museum of space and we did man's first foodprint on 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:24.080 the minut We had bought a shoe box full of 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:28.160 sand and somebody stood on it with their wellies and 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:29.039 then that was it. 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:31.320 It was amazing Man's first step. 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:33.560 On the moon. It wasn't really that's quite. No, I'm sorry, 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:34.200 I think that's quite. 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:35.600 Are you in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:38.200 I am Are you really one of the few women 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:39.479 that are in it? Or is the bad? 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:43.960 Lots of women's articles and sort of testament to women, 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:47.279 to be fair, and I actually loved my visit to 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:48.880 the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I couldn't get 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:51.280 over it. I thought like the public enemy, except it 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:52.839 was amazing, you know. 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:54.799 I just was angry at the Buddy Holy Glass. 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:57.040 Yeah, no fair, I mean I get it. I mean 0:04:57.080 --> 0:05:00.760 I'm just into music, so I was to related, you know. 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:03.760 But I think there is a real issue with the 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:07.560 whole patriarchal view of history. I mean that we were 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:09.000 face we face a problem. 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:11.840 Yeah, I sure, I mean there's definitely work being done 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.680 on that, a little bit spread out enough. But I 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:16.200 love Chrissy Heines take on. 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:20.920 Yeah, I mean, who doesn't love stop, she said, anyone 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:23.200 who thinks the rock roll of Ames getting to do 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:25.560 with rock and roll was funck all about rock and roll? 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:28.800 Oh god, she's still fucking fantastic. 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:31.120 Tremendous were they were these because. 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:33.600 We were talking about Susie Sue as well. Who these 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:35.719 are artists who were like a wee bit ahead of 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:38.159 you chronologically, but they're the women that you kind of 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:40.240 were looking up to when you were in Goodbye Ms. 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:41.159 McKenzie and stuff. 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:43.240 Yeah. I mean, I'm really lucky because I sort of 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:46.840 fell in love with the sort of second generation of 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:50.320 women artists, right, and they were all, for the most part, 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:52.760 kind of rock and rollers, you know, like Debbie Harry, 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:55.760 Christy Heine, Patti Smith, even Stevie Nicks. 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:57.440 You know, Steven was awesome. 0:05:57.880 --> 0:05:59.200 Yeah, she's real. 0:05:59.040 --> 0:05:59.520 Rock and roll. 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:03.120 Yeah, I've burned at heart, you know, So that's true. Actually, 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:06.080 I mean that band, I mean, their music was very 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:09.000 kind of accessible, but their lifestyle, yeah. 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:09.760 It was wild. 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:10.680 I know. 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.080 So Yeah, I had an amazing I had amazing women 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:15.440 to look up to. And they were the first generation 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:17.640 of women who have been allowed to age, which is 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:21.479 again something that hasn't happened really historically, is that women 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:22.839 have been allowed to work. 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:26.000 I think still these women still, I think the women 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:28.320 still get it worse than men about aging. 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:30.840 Like you still see that, like articles that look at 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:31.360 her now. 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:34.000 It's awful. I mean, they do it. They've done it 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:37.160 to me, and it's so gut wrenching when it happens. 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:38.599 Do you ever meet Carrie Fisher? 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.600 No, I've never met Carry Fisher, although she was friendly 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:42.520 with a lot of people I knew. 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:43.720 Oh, Carrie was a friend of mine. 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:45.880 I was very friendly with Carrie and I loved her, 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:48.839 and she talked to me about that. She said, I 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:52.000 didn't think when I was twenty four years old and 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:54.719 I put on that metal bikini in Star Wars, that 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:58.640 I was making a fucking contract to look like that 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:00.440 for the rest of my life. 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:03.440 And I would be shamed and putting the pillory for 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:05.640 not looking like that when I was fifty years old. 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:07.480 Yeah, and I get it. 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:13.320 It's shocking. It's of open prejudice, I think as well. 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:14.960 I wish it was the last bastion, but I think 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:16.000 there's quite a few other. 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:20.440 I think important people try and kind of hide it 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:23.360 a little bit. And oh yeah, I'm very inclusive, but 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:25.400 I don't. What they say now is they say it's 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:26.280 woke if they. 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:28.240 Want to kind of say that they don't like you, 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:30.040 or they're angry at what you think. 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:32.360 They call you woke, Well, they call you woke when 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:34.800 they feel a little guilty that you're aware that they're 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.560 being an absolute asshole towards someone else. 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:41.120 Yeah, I see, I'm very capable of being an absolute ass. 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:42.520 Well, look who you're talking to me, And I'm really 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:44.240 good at it too. But I mean the stepping on 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:48.040 people's necks currently, I really find it frightening. Actually, I 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:49.560 think I think it's worse than it used to be. 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.000 I do, Yeah, I mean I think the world has 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:54.880 always been awful, right That's just how the world is. 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:57.760 You're only happy when it rains. 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:01.120 I think it's pretty bad right now, I really do. 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:04.080 I think there's a very sort of just a right 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:07.320 swing around the world, all over the globe, and it's 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:11.200 allowed people to voice really horrible ideas about other people. 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:13.680 The awful thing I think about it is that if 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:15.960 you believe in free speech, which I kind of do, 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:20.800 then I suppose you have to believe in the right 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:25.040 of people to voice awful shit, which is a shame. 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:27.600 Yeah, I don't know. See, I don't know if if 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:31.440 you if freedom of speech is to allow people to 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:35.040 spew hate, I think it's really dangerous. But I understand 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:37.240 that it's a very thin line. Unfortunate. 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:38.360 Who was it was? 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:40.760 It was a russo or I think it was Rousseau 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:43.280 who said, I may not agree with what you say, 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:45.240 but I will defend to the death you're right to say. 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:49.199 It sounds like Russou sounds French, it does. Yeah. 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.680 And then and then the French, or God bless them, 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:56.560 they're mad again. They're setting their garbage guys around strike, 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:59.720 they're setting fire to the town halls because they're raised, 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:03.080 you know, raised the retirementge from sixty two to sixty four. 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:07.559 Yeah. Like I love that by the French. I love 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:09.480 whether they take it sitting down, but. 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:12.439 The idea of to write, so who's right? And then 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:13.520 the sixty two year. 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:17.560 Olds like, we're so aggurate. I'm so tired, but I've 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:20.120 got one more riot in me. I'm going out and 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:23.880 the blessomar I love it. 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:27.760 That's I'm very envious of you in the fact that 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:32.520 in your world you get to play Paris and Madrid 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:36.040 and South America and all that, because music is universal 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:38.320 and what I do is just you know, like, no, 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:40.760 I have to talk to people that understand. 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:44.160 What the fuck I'm saying. Yeah, that's true, that's horrible. 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:46.720 Just go and learn a few languages. I thought about 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:49.800 Eddie doesn't wanderin. I'd like you to learn a little Mandarin. 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:51.120 You know, my son speaks Mandarin. 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:53.840 See it's great, Yeah, it's he's really good at well, 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:55.640 I don't know if he's really good at don't speaking 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.760 of it, but other people seem to amazing. 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:00.920 Yeah, Chinese people kind of talk to him and he 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:02.800 talks about that's the coolest ever, I think, because it's 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:04.320 very hard. No, I wish I did. 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:05.440 What do you speak? Then? You speak? 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:09.240 I speak a little bit of French. That's because you're 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:11.640 from all the lions in the French. 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:14.319 Scott's in the French against the English. Do you go 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:16.000 back to Scotland a lot? Because the last time I 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:18.920 saw you was actually he through airport. Were both getting 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:19.800 off a plane. 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:24.000 During COVID and there was nobody else on the train 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:27.679 but you and me and my husband. You were on 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.280 the train and my husband got on the train and 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:33.800 for some reason, I was trolling behind nearly I was 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:37.719 like the doors and I suddenly pushed my way in 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:42.079 and I felt the annoyance of another the only other 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:45.560 passenger on the train, and to my horror, it was. 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:50.560 Me Worse than that, it was a Scottish person's unbelieva people. 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:52.560 Hey, Scottish people. 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.920 Unless they're prepared, you know what I mean? You have 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:57.800 to be prepared for it. You just like running Scottish 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:03.520 I think scott Yeah, it's so weird, isn't it. 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:05.839 It's quite weird that Megan says that to me, is like, 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:07.559 what the fuck is that with you guys? I'm like, 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:09.440 I don't know, It's just weird. 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:11.319 We are very strange people. 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:14.240 I love that though, Yeah, we're I love the Scots. 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:15.280 I can't help myself. 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:17.600 They are the odd Would you ever go back there 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:19.480 and live? Do you think I would? 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:22.120 I've talked about it. After COVID, I went kind of 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:25.319 mad here being living in La right, and I just 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:28.439 woke up one day and there was literally twenty four 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:32.199 helicopters buzzing around our house and had been for hours 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.959 and hours on end. There were people protesting in the streets, 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:39.040 and it was quite intense and heartbreaking, and then there 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:42.480 was an earthquake and I sat up, ball upright and shouted, 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:48.920 well I did, and yes you did. 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:52.040 I did. I went home and it's raining. 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.439 Yes, it's raining. All I could have told you that, 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:56.080 though love. 0:11:57.120 --> 0:11:58.520 Is always raining. 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:01.840 And on that amazing house, No, I moved to. 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:03.600 Another amazing house. Do you want to buy the amazing 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:04.559 house I've trying. 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.240 To sell that? Do you realize what happens? Musicians don't 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:08.200 make enough money anymore? 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:10.720 No? I don't know if that's true. You guys level. 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:13.600 Musicians, trust me, don't make enough. People think we're really 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:16.200 rich because they think we're like Beyonce or The Weekend. 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:20.360 It's not like that, yeah, but you know what those guys, 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:25.559 But I don't know. I mean that's not mid level though. 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:28.160 I mean, like you're playing big, You're going to tour 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:32.280 with No Gallagher this year. I wouldn't describe either you 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:34.800 or No Gallaghers like that's top tier. 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.319 Well, it is top tier, but it's still, like, I 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:42.160 don't know, there's just a huge gulf between us obviously 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.520 and baby bands who are really struggling, and then us 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:48.760 and those heavyweights that I've just mentioned, like they make 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:51.559 handle our fist, you know, and that's not the case 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.120 for us. Like, if we're not touring, we're not making money. Yeah, 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:58.199 because records don't sell anymore. They don't kind of you 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:00.560 can't make money. You can't make money through radio play 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.679 like you used to. You just can't make any money 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:06.880 unless you get your arse off the couch and go 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:07.920 and play. 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:10.640 And it's it's hard work, it is, but it's it's 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:14.199 also kind of interesting because the musicians that I tend. 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:17.959 To like, I love music and I we're musicians, and 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:18.719 I think like that. 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:20.920 I even think like that when I'm right stand up 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.440 has the show has to run, like and I tour 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:26.920 with Tamas who if he's not touring with me, he's 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:29.920 touring with Dinas or Junior or or somebody. 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:31.680 I don't know if people. 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:35.719 Like most of the people he deals with are like 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:43.880 quiet and introspective and and I'm like, hey, yeah, but 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:46.520 you're a rock star. I was just a I'm just 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:48.160 a vulgar lounge entertainer. 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:54.040 But but the but the idea of I'm I think 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:58.040 that the people that I tend to like you are 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:00.719 one of them. As an artist, you would do it 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:02.800 if there was no money in it. Yeah, you know, 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:04.160 it's what you do. 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:04.680 Yep. 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.800 And because I remember I did I tell you this? 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:09.520 I toured with the Rolling Stones for a while. 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:10.839 No, you haven't told me that. 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:13.959 Yeah, I was writing a script with Mick Jagger. 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:16.400 How do I not know this story? 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:18.800 Well we never made the movie, but I got fired. 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:19.160 But I was. 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:21.840 But I toured with him for a couple of months 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:23.560 and it was on the Bridges to Babylon tours. 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:24.280 So it was a while ago. 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:28.680 But I remember watching Keith Richards, who became the focus 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:32.640 of my fascination, not Meg. Mike's a I'm not saying 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:35.160 I'm not comparing myself to Meg, but he's an entertainer. 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:39.520 He's a like a razzle, dazzle show off man. But 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.640 I became fascinated by Keith Richards, who if he was 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.360 playing a pub in South London, he'd be just as happy. 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:48.120 Yeah he's not. I don't think he really even sees 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:48.760 that world. 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.760 Yeah, I agree, I mean he's that's what makes him 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:55.160 so extraordinary. But that's what I think makes the bands. 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:58.560 I mean, when you talk about Beyonce or The Weekend 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:00.560 or I don't know anything really about them. Artists I 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:03.040 know they're huge and people love them, but it doesn't 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:04.400 seem to me to be the same kind of thing. 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:08.120 That's show business and rock and roll, and show business 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:10.080 to me are a little different. 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:13.320 Rock and roller is kind of like circus folk. Really, 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:17.760 you know, it's kind of I think that's fair disreputable, 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:20.960 but it's very out of vogue to be a sort 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:25.480 of rock and roller. Of course it will. Yeah, it's funny. 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:28.400 I once met Karen a Party from the lead singer 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.440 of the Ya Yes, and we were talking about rock 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.200 music and I said to her something along the lines of, 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:36.160 you know, oh god, yeah, I know, but I really 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:38.960 embarrassed to be a you know, a rock and roller. 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:41.400 And she went, how can you possibly be embarrassed? We're 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:44.960 like a dying breed, you are. You're fucking being a 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:48.960 rock and roller. Yeah, it's the coolest, And I was like, 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:51.760 it totally changed my kind of like view on it. 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:52.800 It fucking is. 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:55.200 I mean, it's like being like the women that you mentioned, 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:58.800 Debbie Harry and Susie so Edible, Chrissy Haying. I mean, 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:03.280 these are fucking seminal artists, and I think that it 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:06.280 transcends so much rock and roll whan has done right, 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:09.280 Like it's that feeling of you know, I think it 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:12.360 was the guy in Son what was what's the name 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:14.680 of that guy that a head that runs you know 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:17.280 that band's Son that do the really loud drone metal stuff. 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:22.280 They're talking about absorbing the sound through your body, not 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:26.920 just your ears, but like the whole that to me, 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.000 rock and rolls like that since I saw Hawkwind when 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:33.080 I was thirteen years old in the Glasgow Apollo, just. 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:36.040 A fucking size of it. 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:38.920 It's crazy, and I don't think you get that with 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:41.560 you know, the stadium shows. 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:44.200 I don't think I agree, but I think it's definitely 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:49.480 out vogue to voice you know, fury and lust and 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:54.520 you know, even like Unbridled Joy. It's just uncool for 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.640 some reason. And it's all this very contained pop music 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:00.760 currently that people are really into. But everybody that you're 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.760 ever going to meet has got streaks of you know, 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.040 darkness in them, and that's what I love music. 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:10.520 I love what Robert Fripp said about rock and rolling pop. 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:12.440 Do you ever hear that he's incredible? 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:17.719 The main fucking invented the guitar solo style. I mean, 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:22.520 but Robert Fripp said about rodd. He said, the difference 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:26.399 between pop music and rock and raw is that in 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:30.080 pop music people fall in love and kiss each other. 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.480 In rock and rall, someone's getting fucked. 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.000 Amazing, amazing. 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:37.480 I love it. 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:39.960 It's just when you say, you know, voice and lust 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:44.879 and fury and and that to me is that's the difference, 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:47.359 I guess. And so let me take you on a journey, 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:50.960 if I may, you may back to the we were talking. 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:52.840 Briefly about the Columbia. 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:54.280 Hotel in London. 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:55.080 London. 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:57.639 Yeah, when I stayed there when I was drumming in 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:02.800 bands like I guess the early to mid nineteen eighties, which. 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:04.480 You would have been. I was there. 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:07.639 You were kicking off with Goodbye mister McKenzie at that time, right, 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:11.480 we were like they were a sizable band in the 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:12.560 UK at that time. 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:14.080 Yeah, they were doing well. 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:17.520