WEBVTT - Huma Abedin’s Sliding Doors 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:05.640 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:10.760 Thing from my Heart Radio. The saying used to be 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:15.360 behind every great man is a great woman, But considering 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:19.760 my guest today, perhaps that should read behind every great 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:24.600 woman is a great woman. Huma Aberdeen is someone who 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:29.160 has spent her entire career in public service. Her work 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:33.000 with Hillary Rodham Clinton began as a young aide in 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.879 the First Lady's office, then as a senior adviser to 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:41.240 the Senator, deputy chief of staff to the Secretary of State, 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:45.919 and now as her chief of staff. Aberdeen's decades of 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:50.240 collaboration with Clinton bring to mind Richard Nixon's farewell speech 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:53.720 to his White House staff, who noted, quote, this house 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:57.000 has a great heart, and that heart comes from those 0:00:57.040 --> 0:01:01.800 who serve now. Whoma Aberdeen has written an intimate and 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:06.080 revealing best selling memoir on her life, entitled Both And. 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:10.399 The book covers her time working in government as well 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:14.200 as her personal struggles, including a very public divorce from 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:19.600 former Congressman Anthony Weiner. With such a substantial career in politics, 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:23.119 I wanted to know if Aberdeen's upbringing is what set 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.760 her on the path to where she is today. My 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:31.280 mother is a sociologist. My father studied American civilization, which 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:32.880 that's one of the reasons he ended up at Penn. 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:35.200 They don't really teach it or have that course in 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:37.880 many universities now. Yeah, and then they they're from two 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:40.160 countries that were at war, and so they decided they 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:42.959 got asylum here and moved to Michigan and they my 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:45.839 dad taught at Western Michigan. My mom taught at Kalamazoo College. 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:47.680 How long were they living here before you were born 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:50.600 or had you been born? I was born here. I 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:53.680 was born here, and when I was to my and 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:55.480 we thought we were going to say here forever. I 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:57.640 I actually I have this whole thing in my life 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:00.880 about sliding doors. It's not maybe very healthy, but like 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:03.400 what if? What if? What if? And I've often thought 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:05.480 about what my life would have been like if I 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.480 had lived that Midwestern life, which I almost did. But 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:11.480 when I was to my dad was diagnosed with basically, 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:14.720 you know, terminal illness. He was renal failure and his 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:17.120 doctor said, you know, you have five to ten years 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:19.840 and get your affairs in order. How long did he 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:22.679 live after the diagnosis. Well, it's amazing that doctor was 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:26.320 exactly right. His kidneys survived ten years to the day 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:27.960 they failed. And it's one of the first lines I've 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:29.720 wrote in my book. My dad was told he was dying. 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:31.400 I don't know if I ever want to see that doctor. 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:34.120 It was amazing, I mean made, but the difference between 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:38.240 nineteen seventy seven in Kalamazoo, Michigan and thankfully nine years 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:42.720 later the possibility of getting on the transplant list became, 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.320 you know, something real, which only happened because my mother 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:48.360 was so tenacious. So he then went on dialysis. So 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:51.040 he lived till I was seventeen and when did you 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:54.000 go over there? So two months after his diagnosis that 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:58.080 my parents had an option to take a sabbatical and 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:03.680 their choice was either Italy or Saudi Arabia. And the interestingly, 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:05.560 they had always decided. They had always thought they would 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:07.560 go to Italy. They thought it would be this great adventure. 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:09.120 They'd go to Italy. And then my father gets this 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:11.960 diagnosis and he thought, you know, I want to teach 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:14.200 my children about their culture, about their faith. Were a 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:17.920 Muslim family, it seemed like more of an interesting and 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:20.480 it was like, you know, just a year. So they said, 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:22.880 why don't we do? Saudi was definitely the hardest choice. 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:25.480 My mother actually said, when you know, my father said 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:27.359 let's go to Saudi, She's like, and I was too. 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.040 She says, they even have diapers in that country. And 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:33.160 I think about how intrepid they where they landed. They 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:34.840 didn't speak the language. My mother all of a sudden 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:39.040 had to veil her something in Italy, Saudi Arabia Italy. 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:43.240 I think they decided that, you know, there they could. 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:45.600 It was more of a challenge, and I think they 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:50.080 liked that. My mother taught herself Arabic to teach her students. 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:52.240 Then after a year they actually decided to come back 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:54.440 and then come back, and that was, you know, forty 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:58.360 four years ago. They kept going to My mother taught sociology, 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:01.040 and my dad, you know, arted very early on. He 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:03.960 taught a few years, but very early on he open 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:06.000 to foundation. And that's actually one of the reasons. Even 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:07.800 though the foundation was based in London, but it was 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:11.520 a foundation that produced an academic journal that studied the 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:14.440 condition of Muslims who lived as minorities around the world. 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:17.120 And my dad's expertise was actually in Russia. Well back 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:21.000 then it was the USSR, the Soviet Union, and and 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:23.479 it was his You know, I often say this, you know, 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:25.799 my father was really prescient about a lot of these issues. 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:28.320 He basically said, look, if we don't figure out as 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:32.520 Muslims how to live in the world with the rise 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:35.880 of the West, we're gonna have problems. And sure enough 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:38.599 he predicted Bosni I predicted so much of what where 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:42.400 now this these convulsions that we have. And in part 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:46.920 his theory was, look, if you are practicing Muslim wherever 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:48.560 you come from in the Arab world or you know, 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:50.760 through the Muslim world, and you choose to live in 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:53.480 the West, you cannot go there and live in your 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:56.120 own little bubble. That's just not You're not. You have 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:58.120 to You're gonna go and live in France. You need 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:02.520 to become French. And also you can do exactly and 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:04.479 then and that was the way he thought that we 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:06.960 could succeed in this world. And I think he was right, 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:11.480 seeing certainly what's happened. So he was working specifically in 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:13.599 what during those ten years when he was over there, 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:16.080 just a multitude of things, a multitude of things. A 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:18.760 lot of his conversations were about interfaith dialogue. So we 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:21.320 would like. We spent one summer in Greece, living in 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:25.800 a monastery at a conference about you know, Islamic, Christian, Jewish, 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:28.560 you know, dialogue, and we'd sit at the table and 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:32.000 and people, a lot of Muslims and certainly Arabs and 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:34.200 people who lived in our world said why why do 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:36.120 you do this? Why do you go and you know? 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:38.600 And they say, you know, they would tease him and say, 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:42.760 why do you go have conversations? These provocative conversations were 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:46.400 even the angels fear to tread. Why do you go 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:49.680 have these? You know, very contentious? And is because I 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:52.200 want to understand and I want to know more about 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:55.280 these other faiths and beliefs and you know kind of 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:59.560 syst political systems. And I don't have any doubt in 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:01.200 my own but leafs, but I want to learn more. 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:02.840 And I think we probably have more in common than 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:06.240 we realize. Nope, For you other than when you were 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:08.599 maybe were moving about and you mentioned Greece, for one, 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:11.480 did you go to one school or did you concentrate 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:13.000 in just a handful of schools when you were there? 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:14.960 Where did you go to school? High school? I went 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:18.599 to international school based on a British curriculum that my 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.400 father and a few of the other professors of the university. 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:24.440 Because this was all brand new back in seven when 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:26.719 we moved there, and you mentioned the oil money. Sure 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:30.680 there was all of this new wealth, all these amazing 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:33.240 kind of figuring out how much wealth. They were just 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:35.800 figuring out how much wealth, and they were building universities 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:37.880 and building hospitals. But they didn't have the talent. That's 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:40.040 why so much of this talent was imported at the time, 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:42.839 and my parents came in as part of that important 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:46.120 talent exactly right. And so they helped start the school. 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:48.640 And so I was a British school and it was international. 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:50.960 It was actually one of the best things out like that, 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:54.640 I think, to be exposed to so many different cultures 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:58.640 and languages and people from all over the world. It 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:01.520 made me comfortable. Weywhere and I think that was a 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:04.680 big part of it, was, you know, being surrounded by 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:07.960 people who weren't like me. So when you I mean 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:12.640 for Americans today, you know, the Saudi Arabia is now 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:16.840 a concentration of pilots who flew from nine eleven. It's 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:21.520 opec and manipulation of oil prices, it's Kaso I'm talking 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:25.120 about the contemporary American view of that country. I mean, 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:27.080 the United States certainly has a lot of blood on 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:30.040 its hands for things that it's done. I'm not mentioning 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:32.360 that to condemn the Saudis, but the United States is 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.640 guilty of the exact same things during its history as well. 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:38.080 But set aside that. Back when you were there, what 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:40.640 was your Saudi Arabia? What was your experience of the 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:43.200 culture and the people? How do they strike you? You know? 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:46.000 One of the very first things that really hit home 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:48.679 when I moved to the United States, so I didn't 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:50.400 come back. So I grew up in Saudi Arabia and 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:52.760 I didn't live in the United States until I came 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:56.840 to university. One of the things I missed immediately is 0:07:56.880 --> 0:07:59.120 this sense of community. And we call it, you know, 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:01.640 in the Muslim world, we call it the oma. And 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:04.200 the oma is the ever present community, which is you're 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:06.880 never alone. So I tell stories in the book about 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:08.680 how you know, you go to a party and you say, 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:10.480 I like your shirt, and you know, the next thing 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:12.480 you know, that shirt is sent to your house the 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:15.720 next day. This notion of there's always you know, a 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:18.160 seat at the table for more people, there's always food 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:22.600 to share, You're always in a very kind of secure environment, 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.120 and that is something I kind of took for granted 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:27.200 when I was growing up there. In fact, I tell 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:29.640 the story about when my father finally got his transplant 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:33.079 in and he had to leave immediately to go to 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:35.720 the United States, to New York for his transplant operation, 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:37.839 and one of our very very close Saudi friends called 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:40.160 my mother and said, should we take the girls and 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:42.520 me and my siblings. You know, I was, you know, nine, 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:44.800 My sister was e love and my younger sister was four. 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:48.360 I'm my brother, so four of us total and I 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:50.440 and my mother, and we were already scared of all 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:53.240 this change. My so our friends call and said, why 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.640 don't the girls move in with us, you know, while 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:57.720 you guys are in the midst of this transplant operation. 0:08:57.800 --> 0:08:59.880 And I remember we were also scared. We said my mom, no, no, no, 0:08:59.880 --> 0:09:01.120 we don't want to go. So on the phone she 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:02.880 makes up this excuse and she says, oh, you know, 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:04.840 the kids have their exams and their desks and their 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.640 bookcases are here, so we're okay. The next morning, there's 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:10.920 a knock on our door and it's a moving company. 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:12.680 And my mother's like, what are you doing here? And 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:14.960 they're like, oh, we're here to something about books, and 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:17.760 you know, bookshelves and desks were moving, and sure enough 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:20.800 they moved the furniture into this family friends home. We 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:22.800 lived with them while while my parents were in the 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.280 United States. It was probably about six weeks if I 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:30.559 remember correctly, maybe maybe two months. But this idea again 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:35.440 of feeling, so when you leave and you come to 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:40.000 the United States, and if you had a British centric 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:44.440 or British fabric in the educational thing over there, but 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:45.800 why did you come back to the U S. Could 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:47.319 you say, I'm an American and I want to be educated, 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:48.640 why don't you go to England to go to school? 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:50.960 Well I had that choice. Actually, my older brother and 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:54.120 sister chose England. And I always wanted to come to 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:57.160 the United States. You know, back when I was growing 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.480 up in Saudi, everything that was sort of aspiration, everything 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:03.120 that was considered the best was American. You know that 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:07.400 that is you know, back then America did seem like 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:11.199 it and it was the sole super power in the world. 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:14.240 Absolutely felt like it was a paradise. And so we'd 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:16.959 come here for the summers we would stock up on 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:20.400 all the latest magazines. We would have these bootleg movies 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:22.600 that we would take back, all the Tom Cruise movies 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:27.440 and you know, like Beverly Hills Night number one everywhere. 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:30.559 He was certainly number one, you know back then, and 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:33.000 Ralph Macchio and the Karate Kid. I'm thinking of like 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:35.680 all of these, you know, and everything and I and 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:38.080 I write about this. You know, my parents always raised 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:40.240 us and look, you're American and your Muslim, and in 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:43.280 part because they came from two countries that were at war, 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:45.720 so they didn't try to put the burden of that 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:48.120 identity that you have to choose whether you're Indian or 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:51.320 Pakistani or even Saudi, you know, given the fact that 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:53.440 we lived there and you know, felt a deep connection 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:55.920 to it. You're an American and you're a Muslim. And 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:58.920 so I remember, we would go all over the world. 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:00.920 And that was one of the great beauties of having 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:03.520 parents who are academics at Summer's off was one of 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:07.400 the also the great advantages of being a university professor 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:09.280 there because my parents, in the early years, in fact, 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:10.880 I don't think I'd ever shared this, they would get 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:14.760 four first class tickets every summer to go wherever, and 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:17.280 so we would, you know, take these tickets and we 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:19.559 would go to Europe and Asia, and in part because 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:22.640 my father was sick and he wanted to explore the world. 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:25.960 He and he didn't know how much time there's benefits 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:29.199 to having been These were secrets from us. We did 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:30.880 not know how ill he was. You know, I tell 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:32.679 this story about you know, my father was barely a 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:35.040 hundred pounds, and to me, he was a superhero. You know, 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:38.720 he was the greatest, strongest man on the planet. But 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:40.439 he would every spring you would say, Okay, where do 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:41.760 you want to go this year? And he was like, okay, 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:43.520 let's do Asia. And he said, okay. We'd pull out 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:45.960 a map and we'd have to call the airlines back 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:50.079 then wherever he wherever, wherever, you know, wherever, and we 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:53.120 would be wherever we voted on and then we'd have 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:55.520 to help planet. And my mom did all the schlopping 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:57.000 and all the lifting, and you know, my father would 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:59.440 be wheeled around in a wheelchair. But it was having 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:01.000 Number one, it was a way for us to spend 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:03.000 time together. And number two, it was a way to 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:06.200 explore the world. And I remember my mother tells the 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:08.840 story of how we would land in the middle of 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.280 nowhere sometimes in Shannon, Ireland, you know, on our way 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.520 to you know, re feel somewhere and I would get 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:15.120 up and turn to my mother and say, is it 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:17.240 America yet? And I have a whole chapter in my book. 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.080 I mean that is what, you know, the excitement, the 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:22.920 feeling that you know, ice cream running down my hands. 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:25.440 You know, when we visited our family and Elmhurst Queen's, 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:28.400 it was paradise. It was heaven. You could go anywhere 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.680 in the world, and landing in JFK was the highlights. 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:34.000 So when you came to the US, t when you 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:36.160 return to the US to go to college, you go 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:40.080 and you go into politics, but you study journalism as 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:43.720 a major and policize the minor. Did you most people, 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:45.240 I know? My point is that they go to g 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:47.760 W for one thing only. They don't go there to 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.559 play the violin. They don't there to get a scholarship 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:52.800 for some sport they play. They go there they got 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:56.120 politics in their blood. Was that, you know I was. 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.880 I went to g W to become Christian. I'm on poor. 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:03.400 The journalism was the goal. It was And you know, 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:06.320 I say this all the time now when I especially 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:10.000 when I meet younger women. I was sitting on the 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:12.880 floor of our house and watch this brand new thing 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:14.640 in Saudi Arabia and then this is the you know, 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:18.240 Operation Desert Storm, Persian Gulf War, and turn on this 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.160 brand new thing called CNN International, and I see this 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:25.320 woman and she was brilliant, and she was fearless. I 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.720 mean it was I looked at her and she looked 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:29.960 like me. She looked like she came from my part 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:32.360 of the world, and she gave this amorphous you know, 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:34.120 I went from everything I think when I was younger. 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:36.240 You know, my dad, I think always thought I was 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:38.600 going to be a writer. He would, you know, say 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:40.320 that to me, look right, right right. I was a 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:42.960 voracious reader. I went through a prad where I thought 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.400 I wanted to be a lawyer. I was really very dramatic. 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:47.000 People would come to our house and I would say, 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:49.200 do you want to listen to my new poem? And 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:51.280 my siblings would roll their eyes. Like I was a 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:53.679 performer growing up, had a lot of sort of confidence. 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:55.800 I loved to perform, So I think I went through 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:57.160 the period of like I want to be an actor. 0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:58.280 I want to be a singer. I want to be 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:00.120 out there and I wanted to be a ballerie. How 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:01.959 you ended up, but we're gonna get there. I went 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.080 through all these different phases, but then and I must 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:06.360 have been no. I was fifteen. I saw her and 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:08.360 I said that said, that is who I want to be. 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:11.320 And I was singularly focused on being her. And that 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:15.400 is why I applied to g W and I journalism, 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:17.840 and I got my degree in journalists graduate degree. I 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:19.800 did not get a graduate of one of my regrets, 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:21.640 but I did not get a graduated. When you end, 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:23.560 when you do the four years at g W, and 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:26.400 you get a degree in journalism. His journalism still the 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:30.040 goal of because my junior year, my friend Ronnie th 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:32.000 Timbert came to me and said, listen, I've got this 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:35.000 great internship at the White House. I'm interning from Mike McCurry, 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:37.240 who was then the White House Press secretary. And she 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:39.160 actually said to me, says, you know, when you watch 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:42.720 anybody giving a you know, a statement from that podium 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:45.240 in the in the press room, our office is right behind. 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:48.400 And I thought, oh my god, how better to become 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:53.520 Christ than being behind that wall. But you know, chance 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:56.680 you know, fate, luck, whatever it was. I got accepted. 0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:59.480 So my friend Ronnie picks up the internship application for me, 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:02.840 I think basically filled it out for me. I gave 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:04.520 them my you know, the essays that I used to 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:07.400 apply to g W sent it in. Was accepted, but 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:09.960 I wasn't put in the press office. I was put 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:13.400 in the first Ladies policy office. Where did you first 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.440 lay eyes on hillerby Clinton? And you actually talked to 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:19.000 her and shook her hand? And so she doesn't she 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:22.160 doesn't remember this. There's no reason she'd remember this. But 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:25.000 the first time I laid eyes on her and shook 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:29.280 her hand was the night of Bill Clinton's re election. 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:33.640 So I was a White House intern and they, you know, 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.200 the d n C had made accommodations that if interns 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:39.440 wanted to go on this charter plane at the last minute, 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:43.480 too little Rock Arkansas for election night talk about politics 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.680 on steroids. I had now alec. I wasn't registered to vote. 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:48.520 I had never. I mean, I grew up in a 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:50.800 country that was a monarchy. Obviously there was no so 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.400 you know, I went from zero to a thousand, and 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:55.800 so I get on this plane with a bunch of 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:57.720 interns we had to pay, you know, right, a check 0:15:57.760 --> 0:15:59.800 for I think two or fifty dollars for our ticket 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:03.160 Land and Little Rock. We're wandering around outside and I'm 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:05.440 just kind of just in awe. I look up and 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:10.200 there's Wolf Blitzer. I look up. There's intoxicating So I 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:14.360 you know, my plan had a little Rock. The elections 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:17.840 called for Bill Clinton and the Energy and the Electricity, 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:19.920 and they come out on stage and then they come 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:21.320 down to work a rope line, and I was four 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:25.080 or five people deep in and I remember leaning forward 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:27.960 through the crowd and shaking her hand, and she looked 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:30.840 right at me and she said thank you. And I 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:33.000 and I have to tell you, I can't even count 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:34.760 the number of rope lines I have walked with Hillary 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:37.240 Clinton since then. But I remember that moment. I remember 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:39.520 how it felt, I remember how important it felt. I 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:41.320 remember that I felt like I made this connection. And 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:43.960 so every time somebody wouldn't say to me, I just 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:45.440 want to say a lot, I want to shake her hand. 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:48.360 I got it because I remember that first moment, and 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:50.160 when for some people it's a one, it really is 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:52.000 a once in a lifetime to meet a president or 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:59.440 a first lady. Was really exciting Whoma Abodeen. If you 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:03.840 enjoy conversations with accomplished women in politics, check out my 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:07.960 episode with United States Congresswoman Katie Porter. You know, I 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.320 think there is an attitude that you know, sort of 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:15.320 people are entitled to have Republican representation. Here. What they're 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:19.520 entitled to is good representation, right, people who listen to them, 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:21.879 people who fight for them, people who are not corrupt, 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:25.520 and that can come in your Democratic or Republican forms. 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:30.119 To hear more of my conversation with Katie Porter, go 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:34.680 to Here's the Thing dot org. After the break, Whoma 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:39.359 Aberdeen shares the tremendous impact of Hillary Clinton's two thousand 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:55.720 and sixteen election. Lass. Hi'm Alec Baldwin, and you were 0:17:55.760 --> 0:18:01.439 listening to Here's the Thing. Whoma Aberdeen is fiercely intelligent, warm, 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:06.359 and impeccably credentialed. While surely anyone would be lucky to 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.600 employ her, I was curious why she stayed in the 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:13.600 Clinton camp for twenty six years. You know, I'm getting 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:15.720 emotional because I'm sitting at this table. She sat where 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:18.280 you're sitting right now to do my first podcast interview 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:20.080 after the book came out, and she's one of the 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:23.880 people who really encouraged me to write my story that wound, 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.679 to some degree does not go away. I think it 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:30.560 is such a travesty and a loss for this century tragedy. 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:32.720 I agree with you that she was not president in 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.720 two thousand and sixteen, and how different our country and 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:38.359 the world would have been, and it is their loss. 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:42.680 And to see how politics has descended into this sort 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:45.280 of really a cult of personality. I was having this 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:47.159 conversation with a friend the other day and he was like, 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.200 it's almost like you need to be a celebrity, to 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.600 even a rich celebrity, to even you know, run for 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:57.520 office and take all that apart. You know, you actually 0:18:57.520 --> 0:18:59.600 have asked me something no one's ever asked me. I 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:01.520 kind of fell into politics to write. I mean, I 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:04.200 wanted to be generalist, fell into politics. But why. It's 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:07.360 because when I started being in the orbit of Bill 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:09.919 and Hillary Clinton, forget who they were, that he was 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:11.600 the most you know, the leader of the free world. 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:14.400 She was the most powerful woman in the world. For them, 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:17.080 it was all about the mission and the service and 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:19.240 how do I make I know it sounds cliche and 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:21.159 it sounds cheesy, but there are people who get up 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:22.520 every single day and say, how do I make other 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:25.320