1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 2 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: Thing from my Heart Radio. The saying used to be 3 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: behind every great man is a great woman, But considering 4 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: my guest today, perhaps that should read behind every great 5 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:24,600 Speaker 1: woman is a great woman. Huma Aberdeen is someone who 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: has spent her entire career in public service. Her work 7 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: with Hillary Rodham Clinton began as a young aide in 8 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: the First Lady's office, then as a senior adviser to 9 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: the Senator, deputy chief of staff to the Secretary of State, 10 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,919 Speaker 1: and now as her chief of staff. Aberdeen's decades of 11 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: collaboration with Clinton bring to mind Richard Nixon's farewell speech 12 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: to his White House staff, who noted, quote, this house 13 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: has a great heart, and that heart comes from those 14 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: who serve now. Whoma Aberdeen has written an intimate and 15 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: revealing best selling memoir on her life, entitled Both And. 16 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 1: The book covers her time working in government as well 17 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: as her personal struggles, including a very public divorce from 18 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: former Congressman Anthony Weiner. With such a substantial career in politics, 19 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 1: I wanted to know if Aberdeen's upbringing is what set 20 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: her on the path to where she is today. My 21 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: mother is a sociologist. My father studied American civilization, which 22 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons he ended up at Penn. 23 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: They don't really teach it or have that course in 24 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: many universities now. Yeah, and then they they're from two 25 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: countries that were at war, and so they decided they 26 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: got asylum here and moved to Michigan and they my 27 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,839 Speaker 1: dad taught at Western Michigan. My mom taught at Kalamazoo College. 28 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: How long were they living here before you were born 29 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: or had you been born? I was born here. I 30 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: was born here, and when I was to my and 31 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: we thought we were going to say here forever. I 32 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: I actually I have this whole thing in my life 33 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: about sliding doors. It's not maybe very healthy, but like 34 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: what if? What if? What if? And I've often thought 35 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: about what my life would have been like if I 36 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: had lived that Midwestern life, which I almost did. But 37 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: when I was to my dad was diagnosed with basically, 38 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: you know, terminal illness. He was renal failure and his 39 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: doctor said, you know, you have five to ten years 40 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: and get your affairs in order. How long did he 41 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,679 Speaker 1: live after the diagnosis. Well, it's amazing that doctor was 42 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: exactly right. His kidneys survived ten years to the day 43 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: they failed. And it's one of the first lines I've 44 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: wrote in my book. My dad was told he was dying. 45 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: I don't know if I ever want to see that doctor. 46 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: It was amazing, I mean made, but the difference between 47 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven in Kalamazoo, Michigan and thankfully nine years 48 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: later the possibility of getting on the transplant list became, 49 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: you know, something real, which only happened because my mother 50 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: was so tenacious. So he then went on dialysis. So 51 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: he lived till I was seventeen and when did you 52 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: go over there? So two months after his diagnosis that 53 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: my parents had an option to take a sabbatical and 54 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: their choice was either Italy or Saudi Arabia. And the interestingly, 55 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: they had always decided. They had always thought they would 56 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: go to Italy. They thought it would be this great adventure. 57 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: They'd go to Italy. And then my father gets this 58 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: diagnosis and he thought, you know, I want to teach 59 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: my children about their culture, about their faith. Were a 60 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: Muslim family, it seemed like more of an interesting and 61 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: it was like, you know, just a year. So they said, 62 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: why don't we do? Saudi was definitely the hardest choice. 63 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: My mother actually said, when you know, my father said 64 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 1: let's go to Saudi, She's like, and I was too. 65 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: She says, they even have diapers in that country. And 66 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: I think about how intrepid they where they landed. They 67 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: didn't speak the language. My mother all of a sudden 68 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: had to veil her something in Italy, Saudi Arabia Italy. 69 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: I think they decided that, you know, there they could. 70 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: It was more of a challenge, and I think they 71 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: liked that. My mother taught herself Arabic to teach her students. 72 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: Then after a year they actually decided to come back 73 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: and then come back, and that was, you know, forty 74 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: four years ago. They kept going to My mother taught sociology, 75 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: and my dad, you know, arted very early on. He 76 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: taught a few years, but very early on he open 77 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: to foundation. And that's actually one of the reasons. Even 78 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: though the foundation was based in London, but it was 79 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: a foundation that produced an academic journal that studied the 80 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: condition of Muslims who lived as minorities around the world. 81 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: And my dad's expertise was actually in Russia. Well back 82 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: then it was the USSR, the Soviet Union, and and 83 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 1: it was his You know, I often say this, you know, 84 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:25,799 Speaker 1: my father was really prescient about a lot of these issues. 85 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: He basically said, look, if we don't figure out as 86 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: Muslims how to live in the world with the rise 87 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: of the West, we're gonna have problems. And sure enough 88 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: he predicted Bosni I predicted so much of what where 89 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: now this these convulsions that we have. And in part 90 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: his theory was, look, if you are practicing Muslim wherever 91 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: you come from in the Arab world or you know, 92 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: through the Muslim world, and you choose to live in 93 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 1: the West, you cannot go there and live in your 94 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: own little bubble. That's just not You're not. You have 95 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: to You're gonna go and live in France. You need 96 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: to become French. And also you can do exactly and 97 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 1: then and that was the way he thought that we 98 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: could succeed in this world. And I think he was right, 99 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: seeing certainly what's happened. So he was working specifically in 100 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 1: what during those ten years when he was over there, 101 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: just a multitude of things, a multitude of things. A 102 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: lot of his conversations were about interfaith dialogue. So we 103 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: would like. We spent one summer in Greece, living in 104 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: a monastery at a conference about you know, Islamic, Christian, Jewish, 105 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: you know, dialogue, and we'd sit at the table and 106 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: and people, a lot of Muslims and certainly Arabs and 107 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: people who lived in our world said why why do 108 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: you do this? Why do you go and you know? 109 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 1: And they say, you know, they would tease him and say, 110 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: why do you go have conversations? These provocative conversations were 111 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: even the angels fear to tread. Why do you go 112 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: have these? You know, very contentious? And is because I 113 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: want to understand and I want to know more about 114 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: these other faiths and beliefs and you know kind of 115 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: syst political systems. And I don't have any doubt in 116 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: my own but leafs, but I want to learn more. 117 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 1: And I think we probably have more in common than 118 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: we realize. Nope, For you other than when you were 119 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 1: maybe were moving about and you mentioned Greece, for one, 120 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: did you go to one school or did you concentrate 121 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: in just a handful of schools when you were there? 122 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: Where did you go to school? High school? I went 123 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 1: to international school based on a British curriculum that my 124 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: father and a few of the other professors of the university. 125 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: Because this was all brand new back in seven when 126 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 1: we moved there, and you mentioned the oil money. Sure 127 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: there was all of this new wealth, all these amazing 128 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: kind of figuring out how much wealth. They were just 129 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: figuring out how much wealth, and they were building universities 130 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: and building hospitals. But they didn't have the talent. That's 131 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: why so much of this talent was imported at the time, 132 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 1: and my parents came in as part of that important 133 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: talent exactly right. And so they helped start the school. 134 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: And so I was a British school and it was international. 135 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: It was actually one of the best things out like that, 136 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: I think, to be exposed to so many different cultures 137 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: and languages and people from all over the world. It 138 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: made me comfortable. Weywhere and I think that was a 139 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: big part of it, was, you know, being surrounded by 140 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: people who weren't like me. So when you I mean 141 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: for Americans today, you know, the Saudi Arabia is now 142 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: a concentration of pilots who flew from nine eleven. It's 143 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: opec and manipulation of oil prices, it's Kaso I'm talking 144 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: about the contemporary American view of that country. I mean, 145 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: the United States certainly has a lot of blood on 146 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: its hands for things that it's done. I'm not mentioning 147 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: that to condemn the Saudis, but the United States is 148 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: guilty of the exact same things during its history as well. 149 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: But set aside that. Back when you were there, what 150 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: was your Saudi Arabia? What was your experience of the 151 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: culture and the people? How do they strike you? You know? 152 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: One of the very first things that really hit home 153 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,679 Speaker 1: when I moved to the United States, so I didn't 154 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: come back. So I grew up in Saudi Arabia and 155 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: I didn't live in the United States until I came 156 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: to university. One of the things I missed immediately is 157 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: this sense of community. And we call it, you know, 158 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: in the Muslim world, we call it the oma. And 159 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: the oma is the ever present community, which is you're 160 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: never alone. So I tell stories in the book about 161 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: how you know, you go to a party and you say, 162 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: I like your shirt, and you know, the next thing 163 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: you know, that shirt is sent to your house the 164 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: next day. This notion of there's always you know, a 165 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: seat at the table for more people, there's always food 166 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: to share, You're always in a very kind of secure environment, 167 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: and that is something I kind of took for granted 168 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: when I was growing up there. In fact, I tell 169 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: the story about when my father finally got his transplant 170 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 1: in and he had to leave immediately to go to 171 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: the United States, to New York for his transplant operation, 172 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:37,839 Speaker 1: and one of our very very close Saudi friends called 173 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: my mother and said, should we take the girls and 174 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: me and my siblings. You know, I was, you know, nine, 175 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: My sister was e love and my younger sister was four. 176 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: I'm my brother, so four of us total and I 177 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: and my mother, and we were already scared of all 178 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: this change. My so our friends call and said, why 179 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: don't the girls move in with us, you know, while 180 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: you guys are in the midst of this transplant operation. 181 00:08:57,800 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: And I remember we were also scared. We said my mom, no, no, no, 182 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: we don't want to go. So on the phone she 183 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: makes up this excuse and she says, oh, you know, 184 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: the kids have their exams and their desks and their 185 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: bookcases are here, so we're okay. The next morning, there's 186 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: a knock on our door and it's a moving company. 187 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: And my mother's like, what are you doing here? And 188 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: they're like, oh, we're here to something about books, and 189 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: you know, bookshelves and desks were moving, and sure enough 190 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: they moved the furniture into this family friends home. We 191 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: lived with them while while my parents were in the 192 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: United States. It was probably about six weeks if I 193 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 1: remember correctly, maybe maybe two months. But this idea again 194 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: of feeling, so when you leave and you come to 195 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: the United States, and if you had a British centric 196 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: or British fabric in the educational thing over there, but 197 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: why did you come back to the U S. Could 198 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:47,319 Speaker 1: you say, I'm an American and I want to be educated, 199 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: why don't you go to England to go to school? 200 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: Well I had that choice. Actually, my older brother and 201 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: sister chose England. And I always wanted to come to 202 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: the United States. You know, back when I was growing 203 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: up in Saudi, everything that was sort of aspiration, everything 204 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: that was considered the best was American. You know that 205 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: that is you know, back then America did seem like 206 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 1: it and it was the sole super power in the world. 207 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: Absolutely felt like it was a paradise. And so we'd 208 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,959 Speaker 1: come here for the summers we would stock up on 209 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: all the latest magazines. We would have these bootleg movies 210 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: that we would take back, all the Tom Cruise movies 211 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: and you know, like Beverly Hills Night number one everywhere. 212 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 1: He was certainly number one, you know back then, and 213 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: Ralph Macchio and the Karate Kid. I'm thinking of like 214 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: all of these, you know, and everything and I and 215 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: I write about this. You know, my parents always raised 216 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: us and look, you're American and your Muslim, and in 217 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: part because they came from two countries that were at war, 218 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: so they didn't try to put the burden of that 219 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: identity that you have to choose whether you're Indian or 220 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: Pakistani or even Saudi, you know, given the fact that 221 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: we lived there and you know, felt a deep connection 222 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: to it. You're an American and you're a Muslim. And 223 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: so I remember, we would go all over the world. 224 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: And that was one of the great beauties of having 225 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: parents who are academics at Summer's off was one of 226 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: the also the great advantages of being a university professor 227 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: there because my parents, in the early years, in fact, 228 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: I don't think I'd ever shared this, they would get 229 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: four first class tickets every summer to go wherever, and 230 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: so we would, you know, take these tickets and we 231 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,559 Speaker 1: would go to Europe and Asia, and in part because 232 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: my father was sick and he wanted to explore the world. 233 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 1: He and he didn't know how much time there's benefits 234 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,199 Speaker 1: to having been These were secrets from us. We did 235 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: not know how ill he was. You know, I tell 236 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 1: this story about you know, my father was barely a 237 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: hundred pounds, and to me, he was a superhero. You know, 238 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: he was the greatest, strongest man on the planet. But 239 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 1: he would every spring you would say, Okay, where do 240 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: you want to go this year? And he was like, okay, 241 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: let's do Asia. And he said, okay. We'd pull out 242 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 1: a map and we'd have to call the airlines back 243 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,079 Speaker 1: then wherever he wherever, wherever, you know, wherever, and we 244 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: would be wherever we voted on and then we'd have 245 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: to help planet. And my mom did all the schlopping 246 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: and all the lifting, and you know, my father would 247 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 1: be wheeled around in a wheelchair. But it was having 248 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: Number one, it was a way for us to spend 249 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: time together. And number two, it was a way to 250 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: explore the world. And I remember my mother tells the 251 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: story of how we would land in the middle of 252 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: nowhere sometimes in Shannon, Ireland, you know, on our way 253 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: to you know, re feel somewhere and I would get 254 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: up and turn to my mother and say, is it 255 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: America yet? And I have a whole chapter in my book. 256 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: I mean that is what, you know, the excitement, the 257 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: feeling that you know, ice cream running down my hands. 258 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: You know, when we visited our family and Elmhurst Queen's, 259 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: it was paradise. It was heaven. You could go anywhere 260 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: in the world, and landing in JFK was the highlights. 261 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: So when you came to the US, t when you 262 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: return to the US to go to college, you go 263 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: and you go into politics, but you study journalism as 264 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: a major and policize the minor. Did you most people, 265 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: I know? My point is that they go to g 266 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: W for one thing only. They don't go there to 267 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,559 Speaker 1: play the violin. They don't there to get a scholarship 268 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: for some sport they play. They go there they got 269 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: politics in their blood. Was that, you know I was. 270 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: I went to g W to become Christian. I'm on poor. 271 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: The journalism was the goal. It was And you know, 272 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 1: I say this all the time now when I especially 273 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: when I meet younger women. I was sitting on the 274 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: floor of our house and watch this brand new thing 275 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: in Saudi Arabia and then this is the you know, 276 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: Operation Desert Storm, Persian Gulf War, and turn on this 277 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: brand new thing called CNN International, and I see this 278 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 1: woman and she was brilliant, and she was fearless. I 279 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: mean it was I looked at her and she looked 280 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: like me. She looked like she came from my part 281 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: of the world, and she gave this amorphous you know, 282 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: I went from everything I think when I was younger. 283 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: You know, my dad, I think always thought I was 284 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: going to be a writer. He would, you know, say 285 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: that to me, look right, right right. I was a 286 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: voracious reader. I went through a prad where I thought 287 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: I wanted to be a lawyer. I was really very dramatic. 288 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: People would come to our house and I would say, 289 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 1: do you want to listen to my new poem? And 290 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: my siblings would roll their eyes. Like I was a 291 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 1: performer growing up, had a lot of sort of confidence. 292 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: I loved to perform, So I think I went through 293 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: the period of like I want to be an actor. 294 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: I want to be a singer. I want to be 295 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: out there and I wanted to be a ballerie. How 296 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:01,959 Speaker 1: you ended up, but we're gonna get there. I went 297 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 1: through all these different phases, but then and I must 298 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: have been no. I was fifteen. I saw her and 299 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: I said that said, that is who I want to be. 300 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: And I was singularly focused on being her. And that 301 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: is why I applied to g W and I journalism, 302 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: and I got my degree in journalists graduate degree. I 303 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: did not get a graduate of one of my regrets, 304 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: but I did not get a graduated. When you end, 305 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: when you do the four years at g W, and 306 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: you get a degree in journalism. His journalism still the 307 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: goal of because my junior year, my friend Ronnie th 308 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: Timbert came to me and said, listen, I've got this 309 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: great internship at the White House. I'm interning from Mike McCurry, 310 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: who was then the White House Press secretary. And she 311 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: actually said to me, says, you know, when you watch 312 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: anybody giving a you know, a statement from that podium 313 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: in the in the press room, our office is right behind. 314 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: And I thought, oh my god, how better to become 315 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: Christ than being behind that wall. But you know, chance 316 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: you know, fate, luck, whatever it was. I got accepted. 317 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: So my friend Ronnie picks up the internship application for me, 318 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: I think basically filled it out for me. I gave 319 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: them my you know, the essays that I used to 320 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: apply to g W sent it in. Was accepted, but 321 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: I wasn't put in the press office. I was put 322 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: in the first Ladies policy office. Where did you first 323 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: lay eyes on hillerby Clinton? And you actually talked to 324 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: her and shook her hand? And so she doesn't she 325 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: doesn't remember this. There's no reason she'd remember this. But 326 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: the first time I laid eyes on her and shook 327 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: her hand was the night of Bill Clinton's re election. 328 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: So I was a White House intern and they, you know, 329 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: the d n C had made accommodations that if interns 330 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: wanted to go on this charter plane at the last minute, 331 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: too little Rock Arkansas for election night talk about politics 332 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: on steroids. I had now alec. I wasn't registered to vote. 333 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: I had never. I mean, I grew up in a 334 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: country that was a monarchy. Obviously there was no so 335 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: you know, I went from zero to a thousand, and 336 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: so I get on this plane with a bunch of 337 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: interns we had to pay, you know, right, a check 338 00:15:57,760 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: for I think two or fifty dollars for our ticket 339 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: Land and Little Rock. We're wandering around outside and I'm 340 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: just kind of just in awe. I look up and 341 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: there's Wolf Blitzer. I look up. There's intoxicating So I 342 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: you know, my plan had a little Rock. The elections 343 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: called for Bill Clinton and the Energy and the Electricity, 344 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: and they come out on stage and then they come 345 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: down to work a rope line, and I was four 346 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: or five people deep in and I remember leaning forward 347 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: through the crowd and shaking her hand, and she looked 348 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: right at me and she said thank you. And I 349 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: and I have to tell you, I can't even count 350 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: the number of rope lines I have walked with Hillary 351 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: Clinton since then. But I remember that moment. I remember 352 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: how it felt, I remember how important it felt. I 353 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: remember that I felt like I made this connection. And 354 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: so every time somebody wouldn't say to me, I just 355 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: want to say a lot, I want to shake her hand. 356 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: I got it because I remember that first moment, and 357 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: when for some people it's a one, it really is 358 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: a once in a lifetime to meet a president or 359 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: a first lady. Was really exciting Whoma Abodeen. If you 360 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: enjoy conversations with accomplished women in politics, check out my 361 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: episode with United States Congresswoman Katie Porter. You know, I 362 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: think there is an attitude that you know, sort of 363 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: people are entitled to have Republican representation. Here. What they're 364 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: entitled to is good representation, right, people who listen to them, 365 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: people who fight for them, people who are not corrupt, 366 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: and that can come in your Democratic or Republican forms. 367 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 1: To hear more of my conversation with Katie Porter, go 368 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing dot org. After the break, Whoma 369 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: Aberdeen shares the tremendous impact of Hillary Clinton's two thousand 370 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: and sixteen election. Lass. Hi'm Alec Baldwin, and you were 371 00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 1: listening to Here's the Thing. Whoma Aberdeen is fiercely intelligent, warm, 372 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: and impeccably credentialed. While surely anyone would be lucky to 373 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: employ her, I was curious why she stayed in the 374 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: Clinton camp for twenty six years. You know, I'm getting 375 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: emotional because I'm sitting at this table. She sat where 376 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: you're sitting right now to do my first podcast interview 377 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: after the book came out, and she's one of the 378 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:23,880 Speaker 1: people who really encouraged me to write my story that wound, 379 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,679 Speaker 1: to some degree does not go away. I think it 380 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: is such a travesty and a loss for this century tragedy. 381 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: I agree with you that she was not president in 382 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: two thousand and sixteen, and how different our country and 383 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: the world would have been, and it is their loss. 384 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 1: And to see how politics has descended into this sort 385 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: of really a cult of personality. I was having this 386 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 1: conversation with a friend the other day and he was like, 387 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: it's almost like you need to be a celebrity, to 388 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: even a rich celebrity, to even you know, run for 389 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: office and take all that apart. You know, you actually 390 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: have asked me something no one's ever asked me. I 391 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: kind of fell into politics to write. I mean, I 392 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 1: wanted to be generalist, fell into politics. But why. It's 393 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,360 Speaker 1: because when I started being in the orbit of Bill 394 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 1: and Hillary Clinton, forget who they were, that he was 395 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: the most you know, the leader of the free world. 396 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,400 Speaker 1: She was the most powerful woman in the world. For them, 397 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: it was all about the mission and the service and 398 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: how do I make I know it sounds cliche and 399 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 1: it sounds cheesy, but there are people who get up 400 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: every single day and say, how do I make other 401 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: people's lives better? And I think of all the things 402 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,360 Speaker 1: that I have done, there's not a space I have been, 403 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: a place I have been. There isn't a person I 404 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: haven't met that I want to meet. And it still 405 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 1: does not feel the way it feels when you're out 406 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: on a campaign, when you're in government and feel and 407 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: know that you can make somebody's life better than you 408 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: can do something and doing the right thing, and that 409 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:45,880 Speaker 1: is something I learned from her, and to see her 410 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: do it part of her thing. As you well know, 411 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: She's never really thought it was about her. And I 412 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 1: think a lot of politicians and maybe even people in 413 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: your line of work, they get into it. There's some 414 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 1: degree of whether it's narcissism or some degree of you know, 415 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: trying to prove one his own value. But she just 416 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: she just wants to do the work. And I always said, 417 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:06,919 Speaker 1: the day I got up and she wasn't doing something interesting, 418 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: or I didn't want to go to work, or I 419 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: didn't want to talk to her, I would quit. And 420 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: and the thing that is so insane to me is 421 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: that after that election which broke us, I mean I 422 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: write about it in and there are days that it 423 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: comes back and you know, it haunts me. It hurts 424 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: like it hurts like physically. I was around her this summer, 425 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: Liz Robbins, we went to that dinner with listen, this 426 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 1: is my friend for our listeners who she has a 427 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: dinner and Bill is there a couple of summers ago. 428 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,360 Speaker 1: Bill is lecturing us on North Korea. And he's talking 429 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: about now when the President of the United States is 430 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,199 Speaker 1: telling you what he wants you to know, like a 431 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: little digest, a little synopsis about North Korean policy, you 432 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: are I don't need to eat forget about dinner. And 433 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: Liz Robbins is behind his back. She's behind built that 434 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: going like this and cutting her throat like this, going 435 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: you gotta tum to stop. Dinner is ready, and I'm 436 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: looking at like a yeah, I'm gonna tell Bill to 437 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: stop talking about North Korea. And when you're with him, 438 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: you get a civics lesson. You had a political history lesson, 439 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: and we did with her the same thing. But she's 440 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: just I don't know what this inefftable thing in my 441 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: business was. She just she's like Spencer Tracy. She's just 442 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: so decent. She has a few radical empathy number one, 443 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: number two, she has this she has like she says, 444 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 1: this problem solving, Jean, you know, I think so much 445 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: of it, and you know, people, and she's motivated really 446 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: by not anything else. I don't think she cares about 447 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: being rich and famous. I don't think she's ever cared 448 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: about that. But I think knowing about her own mother's 449 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,199 Speaker 1: her own mother had a very very difficult childhood, was 450 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: basically abandoned by her parents. And you know, her victory 451 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: speech in two thousand sixteen, she was going to end 452 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 1: with this story about She tells the story about her 453 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,719 Speaker 1: mother who was put on a train cross country. Her 454 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: parents didn't want her and her little sister, So these 455 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 1: two little girls under ten put on a train to 456 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: go cross country to move in with her their grandparents, 457 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: who also didn't really want them. And she said, you know, 458 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: she imagined being on the train, sitting next to her 459 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: mother and saying, it's going to be okay. You're gonna 460 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: be okay, and you're gonna grow up and you're gonna 461 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 1: have a daughter, and she will be the first woman 462 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 1: president United States. And in the end, and to remind people, 463 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: I also like to remind people when people say, why 464 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 1: couldn't you guys, why didn't you guys have the energy 465 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: and sort of why didn't you have all this energy 466 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: behind you? And I'd like to remind people that three 467 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: million people more than her opponent voted for her, that 468 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: she did have the energy and enthusiasm and you know 469 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: the forces. I do believe she writ one in two 470 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: thousand and sixteen, and she did win in two You know, 471 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: one of the things that you and she have in common, 472 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: you were both people who your husband let you down. 473 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 1: That's my way of putting it. Your husband's let you down. 474 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: And in your case, you overcome that. You deal with 475 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: that in your way, and you're very honest about it 476 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: in the book, and you keep going. Crisis management has 477 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: been a fundamental pillar of your career. You've worked with 478 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: people who have been in crisis, and Hilary Clinton is 479 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: someone who has been attacked in a way that is 480 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: as ugly and so with you professionally with the Clintons 481 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: for many years. In your personal life, a lot of 482 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 1: crisis management for you. What prepared you for that? I 483 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: think my childhood. I think the way I was raised, 484 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: the people who raised me, the you know, whether it 485 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: was conscious or subconscious. I mean this idea that I 486 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 1: had a mother who is a superhero, you know who. 487 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 1: My father was throwing up after his dialysis sessions and 488 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: she was in the bathroom cleaning him up, and you know, 489 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: propping him up and putting him at the very real 490 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: I mean, these were very and you know, living in 491 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia, living in a different cultures, living you know, 492 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 1: sometimes in very frustrating moments, and always thinking all right, 493 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: tomorrow is gonna be better. Tomorrow is gonna be better. 494 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: And then obviously dealing with my father's death that was hard. 495 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 1: You know, I was in denial for a while. It 496 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,400 Speaker 1: took two years from me to actually say out loud 497 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,959 Speaker 1: to people my father's dad. I was basically just you know. 498 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: So I think that to some extent, there was crisis 499 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: all around me kind of growing up, and I figured 500 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: out how to live and dan and not only live 501 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: through it, my mother tells, and move on. I mean, 502 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: my my mother says, my father's favorite memory from my 503 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: childhood is when I would come out of school. I 504 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: would skip out of school and he would call me 505 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: his gazelle. It's one of the reasons I share in 506 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 1: the book this story about the first time I staff 507 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: Hillary and her speech has forgotten in the car and 508 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: she calls me on to stage and I'm kid, I'm 509 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,919 Speaker 1: barely twenty one, don't have the speech. And that was 510 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: the moment, the moment where you basically either fall apart 511 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: or say I got it. I can fix this. And 512 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: I fixed it in that moment. That was twenty six 513 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: years ago, and I have always figured it out, and 514 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 1: I actually think I have figured out that I'm pretty 515 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: good at it. And I don't know if that's like 516 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,919 Speaker 1: a marketable skill anywhere outside of politics. I'm working on 517 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: that right now, but it's experience. Whose idea was the book? 518 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: The book was Anna Winter's idea. No, yes, yes. It 519 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: was ten days after the election. I didn't want to 520 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: get out of bed, and she says, let's go to dinner, 521 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: and we go to the theater and then go to dinner. 522 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: And I was it was at the public and it 523 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: was Cheryl Strait's Tiny Beautiful Things, and and cried and cried, 524 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: and then we go to dinner and she says, I 525 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: know what you should do. You should write your story. 526 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: It's a great story. And I said, no, it's not 527 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: I'm not going to do it. And the next day 528 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 1: I go to Hillary and tell Hillary and I said, 529 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 1: She's like, brilliant idea, you should do. It's a good story. 530 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: I was really in denial. It was only when I 531 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 1: went to lunch with a man getting advice on what 532 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: to do next to my life, and told him most 533 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: some people think I should write my book. And he 534 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: was like, why would you do that? And I told 535 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: people have suggested shielding. What what does he do for 536 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 1: a living? He's also a crisis management consultant and to 537 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: an extent, I mean, you know, he's in sort of 538 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: the business of you know, politics and communications and um. 539 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 1: And he says, listen, I just don't think you could 540 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: ever fully explain why Hillary lost. And I don't think 541 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 1: anyone wants to read any more about all that scandal. 542 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 1: And it was when he used that word scandal. I 543 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: walked out of that restaurant and I was writing the book. 544 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: It was somebody telling me the story was unworthy. That 545 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: made me right. And when I when I started right, 546 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 1: it just poured, it poured out of me. I loved, loved, 547 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: loved the writing process. And you know, and look, because 548 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: you asked about Anthony and my ex husband letting me down, 549 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: which he did. He was on this podcast. He was 550 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 1: on this podcast. Yeah, that's right, he was. And you 551 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: know when the first husband and wife, a couple of 552 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: people have I should have brought him along. We're we're 553 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: not talking about doing some interviews together because people cannot. 554 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: Are still in shock. And I get stopped on the 555 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 1: street all the time saying, I'm sure you rue the 556 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,120 Speaker 1: day that you met that man. In fact, somebody said 557 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: that to me, you know when I launched the paperback 558 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: to a couple of weeks, was like, I'm sure you 559 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: rue the day you met that man. And I stopped 560 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 1: this person and I said, you know, actually this man 561 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: gave me the greatest gift in my life, and that 562 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: is my son, my minion, And so no, and I 563 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: and I think part of it is people didn't understand 564 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: what was happening. And you know, I only now years 565 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 1: later and we have a much greater appreciation for mental 566 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 1: health and addiction, and and you know, back then, only 567 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: certain like I felt like our friends kind of in 568 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,640 Speaker 1: the creative world in Hollywood really understood what was happening. 569 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: And you know, but in politics, I mean to have 570 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: the first what I argue was sort of twitter sex scandal. 571 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:19,959 Speaker 1: It was unheard of back then. People don't know what 572 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: to do. And so we think also with him, if 573 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: I made dis interjected with him that the thing is 574 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: that we have so few people now in my estimation, 575 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: who are really really special in politics, and your former 576 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,959 Speaker 1: husband was somebody who people have a lot of belief 577 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: in him. He was you know, at one point, the 578 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,239 Speaker 1: chapter about Anthony was called Icarus because he was I mean, 579 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: he really was really smart, really and as you said, 580 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 1: you know, he was unique. He was a unicorn in 581 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: a way that he was progressive, he was feisty, he 582 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 1: was smart, he understood the policy, but more than that, 583 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: he had solutions. And you know, until he ran for 584 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,400 Speaker 1: mayor in two thousand and thirteen and obviously lost. He'd 585 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,679 Speaker 1: never lost an election before two to that point. And 586 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: so to not then understand the behavior, which I did not, 587 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: alt like I'm being very on, I did not as 588 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: somebody who grew up so disciplined and with such moderation, 589 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: you know, so you know, I just knock off this 590 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 1: behavior and not understanding that he had really fallen into 591 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: and you know, his all of this compulsiveness is really 592 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: kind of triggered by Facebook and Twitter that all had 593 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: just started last a couple of years and then just 594 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: just fall it. Really, it's a you know, talk about 595 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: another tragic I think he let down a lot of people, 596 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 1: not just you. He had people who really believed in 597 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,159 Speaker 1: him because in the Democratic Party we just don't have 598 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: enough tough people. Now, you've been dealing with the political 599 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: press your entire professional career, and some of them have been, 600 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: you know, remarkably brutal and unfair. Who in your life 601 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: from the conservative media when you dealt with them, did 602 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: you respect and you're like that they covered her fairly? Wow? 603 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: That is a questions, as said, say that I don't 604 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: know the answer to. I'm not sure I could give 605 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: you a name off the top of my head. Isn't 606 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: that hard coming from But we lived I mean, but 607 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: we lived in a different you know how you've stumped me? 608 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, I can't. I think we were always 609 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: on guard. And to the point that you just made 610 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: about fake news versus you know, this notion of your 611 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: entitled to your you know, your own opinion, but not 612 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: your own facts. That's out the door now now, it's 613 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: sort of you know what is fact what is fiction? 614 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: And I struggle to come up with a single name 615 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: of somebody who I thought was very Look, we had 616 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: challenges with the New York Times, where there were stories 617 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: that were just filled with in accuracies. Whoma Aberdeen, if 618 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend and be sure 619 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: to follow Here's the Thing on the I Heart radio app, 620 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back. 621 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: Whoma Abodeen ponders whether a political candidacy is in her future. 622 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: I'm Autlec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 623 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: Whoma Aberdeen was vice chair of Hillary Clinton's two thousand 624 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: sixteen presidential campaign. After such an unexpected and painful loss, 625 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: I was curious what she thought it would take for 626 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: the United States to finally elect a female president. I 627 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: think this is a generational thing. I mean, I'm raising 628 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: a son, and I am raising my son not just 629 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: to respect women, but not fear their power. And I 630 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: think it's conscious and subconscious, this notion of when you 631 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: close your eyes and you see somebody who's in charge, 632 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: do you ever see it as a woman? No, you 633 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: see it as a man, and how do we change that? 634 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: And I think you and I are you know of 635 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: a generation that that's it's going to be very hard 636 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: to change. And it's proven an election over and over again. 637 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: I mean, look at this battle of Kafie Hokele going 638 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: through right now in New York. I mean it is 639 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: I guarantee you if she was not a woman, I'm 640 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: not sure she would it would be as neck and neck. 641 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: But it's women, and it's and this notion of ambition, 642 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: you know, the idea that people always look at us 643 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: whenever we are the victim, when we were in service 644 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: of I mean Hillary was always most popular when you know, 645 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: during impeachment in her husband's administration, and then when she 646 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: served Obama. In the minute she says I'm in her 647 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: approval numbers just go down significantly. In that thing. It 648 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: is the minute a woman is seen as being ambitious 649 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: for power or being in charge, that all of a sudden, 650 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: something subconsciously and this is not just men, this is 651 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: men and women subconsciously off in her head saying no, no, no, no, 652 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: that can happen women who still support the patriarchy. I 653 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: find that mesmerizing women who are enemies of candidacies like 654 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: Hillo bas and stuff with that. We would knock on 655 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: doors early on the primary, and women you know in 656 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: Iowa would say, I'm gonna caucus for Hillary. I'm gonna 657 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: caucus for Hillary. Wink wink, but you know, making sure 658 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: their husbands didn't here, and then sure enough on caucus 659 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: day they just did what their husbands were doing or 660 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: told them to do. Whatever it is. It's just it is. 661 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: It is a generational thing that we have to change. 662 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: Are you going to run? You know? Part of it, Well, 663 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: I haven't really what I people that's demographic idolize. Well. 664 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: I so this is my year of saying yes, I'm 665 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: doing all kinds of crazy things this year that I 666 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: would have never said yes to two years ago. For example, 667 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: I mean this, I'm doing interviews, I'm giving speeches, I'm 668 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: you know, I'm just exploring the world. I'm seeing things 669 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: and meeting people. I'm just doing things I would have 670 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: in the olden days. I don't have time for this. 671 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: I don't have time for social life. I don't have time. 672 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: You know, it's always about work, and now I'm just 673 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: you know, finding more time to all those things. So 674 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: I hate when I say, Okay, I'm definitely not running 675 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: for office. I don't see a path. I don't see 676 00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: that I would. But I'm in this never say never, 677 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: but just I don't. I don't see it. I'm also 678 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: agnostic about You've never seen the path? Have you? The 679 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: woman that wanted to be Christian? I'm on poor one 680 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: that's in the Sliding Doors biography of Homopoty. You've never 681 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: seen the path? You were like me in the sense 682 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: of my whole life has been people who go a 683 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: B or C and also then go, which do I 684 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: really want a B or C? And the answer is 685 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: d something that wasn't even on the table eighteen months 686 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: And that's the train I got on. Well, that's the cliff. 687 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 1: You know, the book was originally the prolog was originally 688 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: called the cliff. I'm kind of standing on the precipice 689 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: of that cliff, and I chose to jump. And I 690 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: always envisioned that it was going to be really bad. 691 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: Jumping just meant hitting the ground, and how much pain 692 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: was that going to be? And it's an opportunity as well. 693 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: And this is just my opinion. I mean, I'm not 694 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: trying to give you advice here. I'm not trying to 695 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: concourage you to run for office, but the point is 696 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: is that it's an opportunity. Even if you lose, you 697 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: don't go into a think here to It's a chance 698 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: for you to put on the record what you believe 699 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: about this guy and this government. So two more quick things. 700 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: One is you're developing a television series based on your 701 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: memoir and you went ahead, and I can't believe you 702 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: wouldn't cast the unspeakably unattractive and untalented Frieda Pinto to 703 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,720 Speaker 1: play you. I mean, what the hell are you thinking? 704 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,879 Speaker 1: Freda Pinto is going to play you in the TV show. 705 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: I was stunned that she wanted to do it. You know, 706 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 1: I'm a big admirer of hers, But more than that, 707 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,879 Speaker 1: I was and I met I met with a lot 708 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:25,359 Speaker 1: of people, and I didn't know where. I had never 709 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,439 Speaker 1: met her in all these years. But she got the book, 710 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,399 Speaker 1: she got the story, she got the character. And I think, 711 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: while I'm gratified a lot of people have read the book, 712 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: I think a lot more people watch it on screen 713 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 1: and this if there is some sort of service or 714 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: interest in the book. I mean, I'm just beyond thrilled 715 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: that she's doing and I can't wait for so Now, 716 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 1: if we're going to end, I want you to read 717 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 1: that this is a letter. Tell tell us about this letter. 718 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 1: Where is this this? This is a note I found 719 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,800 Speaker 1: just buried in my dad's papers years after he died. 720 00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: And I thought it was a message, you know, from 721 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: the and and I think it was just something. You know, 722 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: he would scribble these notes down. And he had a 723 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,280 Speaker 1: folder called Random Reflections, and this was from his random 724 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: reflections folder. And it's titled thought for the Day. As 725 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: an American, a Muslim, and as a member of a 726 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 1: fairly decent family, a commitment should be a commitment, whatever 727 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: the provocation. It should not influence you to act in 728 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 1: an unbecoming manner. You have to be fair, honest, and direct. 729 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: If you can't stand the heat, then, as Truman said, 730 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 1: get out of the kitchen. But your exit should be graceful, decent, 731 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: and above board. Let others do what they will. You 732 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:47,720 Speaker 1: are responsible in the first instance, to yourself, your principles 733 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: and values, and ultimately to God. Yeahweh Allah, your loving father. 734 00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: And I feel as though this was a note that 735 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 1: he left for us to remind us what's important about 736 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: how to walk through this earth. And you've lived that. 737 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 1: I've tried to you live that, and I want you 738 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:09,439 Speaker 1: to know. See, the thing about you is I'm gonna 739 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: end with the blessing and the curse, the sweet and 740 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: the sour, and that is you are a very special 741 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 1: and gifted person. But of course with that comes tremendous 742 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,759 Speaker 1: burdens as well, and tremendous demands. It's a blessing and 743 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 1: a curse. You have a lot of burdens on you. 744 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 1: This is choking me up here, and you have and 745 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 1: when it comes a burden. But we hope we're going 746 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,879 Speaker 1: to see more of this woman that's in this book. 747 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 1: I want to see. I can't wait to see what 748 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 1: she's going to do well. From your lips to God's ears, 749 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,680 Speaker 1: I just I'm so I'm excited, thrilled, terrified, all those things. 750 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: But I'm continuing why you're saying, s Huma Aberdeen. This 751 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 1: episode was recorded at CDM Studios in New York City. 752 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 1: We're produced by Kathleen so Zach McNeice and Maureen Hoban. 753 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: Our engineer is Frank Imperial. Our social media manager is 754 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 1: Danielle Gingrich. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing is brought 755 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,760 Speaker 1: to you by iHeart Radio