WEBVTT - What Will a Kamala Harris Economy Look Like? 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:15.239 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:21.520 I have that two thousand and eight feeling. The excitement 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:25.520 is real. I think it's happening from the ground up. 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:30.240 I feel two thousand and eight excitement right now, and 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:34.120 I think we have a real opportunity here America. 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:40.479 Hope is making a comeback. Welcome to our Democratic National 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:44.760 Convention edition of voter Nomics, the Bloomberg podcast where politics 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:48.519 and Markets collide. All year, we've been talking and talking 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:51.920 about how voters around the world have the ability to 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:56.440 move markets, countries, and economies like never before in twenty 0:00:56.480 --> 0:01:00.440 twenty four, and we're focusing now on US voters ahead 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:08.520 of the November election. I'm Stephanie Flanders, hosting from Chicago, 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:11.679 where the convention is underway, and with me from the 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.760 Bloomberg White House team. Very glad to say senior reporter 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:18.040 Josh Wingrove, thanks for being here, Thank you for having me. Well, 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:20.480 we're taking this on Wednesday, we should say, so it's 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:24.199 more than halfway through the convention. I think we're knee 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:26.840 deep in vibes. There's been a lot of discussion about 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:29.959 the vibes. So it's not a week for policy wonts, 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:32.000 but we have been doing our best to resist that 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:36.280 with round tables with some key figures in the party 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:40.120 and advisors to Kamala Harris at the Bloomberg Hub where 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:42.000 we're sitting right now, which is just down the road 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:45.600 from the convention hall. But inside, I would say it's 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:47.920 been a week for Democrats to get all fired up 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:51.200 and potentially excite some voters sitting at home with this 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:55.880 just very recently improved ticket of Kamala Harris and Tim Walks. Josh, 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:58.640 you are very young, but you're not so young. I 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:00.920 think you probably still can remain the two thousand and 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:03.360 eight is making a comeback here. 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:05.720 Not as young as I used to be. I remember 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:09.320 two thousand and eight very well. Hope is making a 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:12.360 comeback if you talk to the people here, which is 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:16.040 to say, Democrats are indulging themselves and letting them speak aloud. 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:19.280 This thought that, oh my gosh, could the sort of 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:24.040 broad coalition that elected and swept Obama to power sixteen 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:26.320 years ago come together again? And of course that's a 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:29.960 big change from a month ago when Democrats were pretty 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:33.760 despondent in sort of a public friendly war about whether 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:37.160 to you know, dump or pressure Joe Biden to step away. 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:40.320 But there is a sense that Harris has momentum, and 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:43.720 in particular, I think we're seeing that sort of change 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:46.960 expectations depending on what you ask. Certainly, in the House, 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:50.200 Democrats seem very confident that they're going to have a 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:52.480 really good shot at taking back the House of Representatives, 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:55.840 making Kakim Jeffries the speaker. And from there it gets 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:59.000 a little mess here. And so we you know, we've talked, 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:02.120 for instance here with the Pennsylvania governor. He thinks his 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:04.760 state is both the tipping point state, which is, you know, 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:07.280 to say, the one that will decide things and a 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:09.360 toss up. And so it just goes to show you, 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.400 like how we're really down to the wire here. But 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:16.079 you're right, from a policy perspective, it's you know, it's 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:18.679 not just a ViBe's election at the convention. We're having 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:19.880 a ViBe's election in general. 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:22.680 Yeah, And I was very struck watching the former President 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:26.040 Obama on Tuesday night his speech here in Chicago, which 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:30.040 definitely had allusions to the electrifying one that he gave 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:32.280 in Boston in two thousand and four. As a little note, 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:34.240 Senator I was lucky enough to that was the last 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:37.240 convention I was at. But as you say, there's no 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:39.440 getting around the fact, even with all these great vibes, 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:42.960 the country is still split down the middle. And you 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:46.480 have maybe forty six percent of voters who had died 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:49.160 in the world supporters Donald Trump, maybe even a bit 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:52.880 more enthusiastic now than they were a month ago, and 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:57.720 something close to that, strongly supporting the Democrats and certainly 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:02.400 opposing Donald Trump. So just that small middle ground to 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:06.320 play for. You mentioned Governor Josh Shapiro. We had an 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:08.560 event with him that you were at here in the 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.440 Hub just this morning, and you know, he's the governor 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.400 of the must win swingy as state of all and 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:16.440 this is how he described the situation. 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:21.320 Our last two presidential election races in Pennsylvania settled by 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:24.359 about a point or less forty four thousand votes and 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:27.760 eighty thousand votes in a state of thirteen million people 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:32.279 over nine million registered voters. So the fact that races 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:35.480 are close in Pennsylvania is really not something that is 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:40.160 surprising as we look forward with that history, I think 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:43.599 it's important to note that the gap that existed between 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:47.080 Trump and Biden has really been closed. I think your 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:50.760 outlets have all done polling, maybe it's plus one minus one. 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:55.360 I think we're statistically even at this point. And what 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:58.520 I think Vice President Harris and Governor Wallas have done 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:02.800 really effectively is build the coalition back together and be 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:06.279 in a position where we're what seventy seven days seventy 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:10.320 eight days out and really be, as I describe it, 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:14.000 on the forty nine yard line in Pennsylvania. You can 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:16.520 pick up forty eight or forty nine yards. It's that 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:18.440 last yard and a half to get on the other 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:21.600 side of the field that is really really tough. How 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:24.799 do you do that? Obviously, we've got important urban centers 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:29.400 in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. The Philly suburbs are incredibly important, 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:32.599 and as we proved in my election and others have 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:36.120 as well, these rural areas are areas where Democrats have 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:38.599 to compete. We know in twenty sixteen we didn't do 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:40.880 as well as we needed to in those areas. I 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:44.040 will tell you I think those rural areas are fired 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:46.640 up for Donald Trump. I don't think we should pretend 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:50.200 that they're not. But what I have experienced in just 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:54.039 the last few weeks that Kama Harris has been leading 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:56.920 the ticket is when I'm in those communities and I 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:58.600 camp out there, I spend a lot of time there 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:02.880 as governor. They'll come over to me and say, hey, 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.200 what do you think of her? You know her, what's 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:08.919 the deal? And I say that in no way to 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:12.120 be disparaging. I say that because there's a genuine interest 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:15.800 and curiosity in her candidacy. And that's a good sign. 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:17.920 I'll tell you what else is a really good sign. 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:21.280 She and Tim showed up there. What was it three 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:23.000 four days ago? I think it was on Sunday, if 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:26.320 I'm not mistaken. In Beaver County. They went to one 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:29.000 of these rural communities, think like kind of rural area 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:32.359 outside of Pittsburgh, and they went and talked about cutting costs, 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:35.760 and they went and talked about economic issues. If you 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.760 remember back, you know, we all remember Barack Obama having 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.120 huge rallies in Philly. What a lot of people don't 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:44.160 remember is his first rally was in Beaver County. That's 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:46.880 a county the Democrats have been losing for years. I won, 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:49.280 and that's an area where we have to be competitive. 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:52.440 And so the fact that people are curious about her candidcy, 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:55.400 the fact that she showed up there and talked about 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:59.360 issues on their minds. Really really gives me a lot 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:01.760 of hope and OPTI miser for that last that last 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:04.040 yard and a half. It's so difficult to come by 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:04.520 in our stay. 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:08.279 Gummor Shapiro was was sort of cautiously optimistic. He saw 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:10.120 a lot of energy on the ground, but that there's 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:11.680 a lot more for them to do, right. 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:15.280 Yeah, And Harris herself is trying to pump the brakes 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:19.040 as well, because it's good to be confident, but complacency 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:22.400 is a different animal. That's what they're worried about. You know, 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:28.000 I think this is all happening at unprecedented speed. I 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:29.960 think we shouldn't lose sight of that. I mean, you know, 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.040 one of the arguments a month and a half ago 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:34.640 was that they're simply for keeping Biden, was that there 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:38.000 simply wasn't time to build the plane in mid air 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.600 that they are now building. And so the you know, 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:43.720 I think for Harris, she has inherited a party that 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:46.920 has done a couple of things. Number One, rallied completely 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:49.200 around her in the matter of an hour, it felt 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:53.120 like on that Sunday. Another thing is that her position 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:55.400 at the top of the ticket has also really taken 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:58.480 a lot of states off board that were competitive now, 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:01.080 so we're gonna have a more focused election, whereas previously 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:02.840 Trump was thinking he was going to break through in 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:05.880 you know, Minnesota, Virginia, maybe New York, New Jersey and 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:08.640 what might be sort of a fantastical. 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:10.200 That's so we're going to see a lot of big 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:10.720 rallies in. 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:14.760 So we're snabbing right back down to what it was 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:18.840 about seven or eight swing states. I think broadly position 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:21.520 for Harris now. The question is how much meat do 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:23.920 I want to put on this bone. She has taken 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:28.960 steps to keep doors open, not close them, including if 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:32.640 that leaves egg on her face by saying forget what 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.800 I said five years ago, I actually believe the opposite now. 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:38.400 So I think that is the level set that we 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:41.600 should expect for the next seven years so days whatever 0:08:41.600 --> 0:08:44.120 the campaign will be, which, by the way, in other states, 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:47.120 it's only half that with early voting kicking in something 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:52.240 soon here, I would expect her to continue to risk 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:57.920 embarrassment by backtracking on policies to open pathways for her 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.320 or leave open the question of what she things, rather 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:03.480 than her pinning a policy list on the wall and 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:05.160 saying this is what I stand for. It they don't 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:05.800 think that's their path. 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:08.199 That was interesting. So we had We're sitting in the 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:10.000 room where we've had some of these events at the 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:12.959 Bloomberg Hub, and there were two quite senior policy advisers, 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:15.160 d Kamala Harris who spoke to us, Harris who spoke 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:17.640 to us just a few hours ago, one of whom 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:19.800 had been her chief of staff when she was in 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:24.680 the Senate. And it was striking how little information they 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:26.840 could give when you talk about putting meat on the bones. 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:30.840 We had this kind of sketch of her economic proposals 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:33.160 last week. When are we going to find out how 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.600 she's going to pay for this renewal of the child 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:40.480 tax credit and the support for homeowners? And then I 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:43.440 realized that they were referring to that speech as their 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:46.400 most detailed speech that they were going to give, really 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:50.040 and it just brought home to me how many questions 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:55.560 there are unanswered, and crucially this debate with Donald Trump 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:59.720 on September tenth. I mean, we were asking these advisers 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:04.120 about foreign policy, Josh, do you expect to have any 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:08.800 substance on what President Kamala Harris how she would approach 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:12.480 foreign policy between now and the debate, I. 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:14.560 Think it's a coin flip about whether they're going to 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:17.199 try to put something in the window before the debate. 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:20.160 What they have said is look at her record, So 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:23.960 let's talk about a record on foreign policy. Hawk on Ukraine, 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:26.360 for sure, she would continue Biden's approach of seeing it 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:28.560 as a priority for the US not only to send 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:31.560 support to Ukraine directly, but to continue to try to 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:36.480 muster an alliance and sort of global coalition to support 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:39.640 Ukraine in its fight against Russia. So I think that 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:41.880 one is clear. I don't expect an in daylight on 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:45.600 that one. In Gaza, it's more murky. She has tried 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:49.080 to sell the same policy as Biden in a different way. 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.480 For instance, she calls for a ceasefire and then says 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:55.199 Hamas has to agree to it, whereas Biden says Hamas 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:57.400 has to agree to the ceasefire. So it's just little 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:01.640 differences like this. But yeah, difference not really a difference. 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:05.000 There's a rhetorical difference. But in their live's election, rhetoric 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:07.960 is perhaps everything. But you're right, we were sitting here 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:11.800 looking at, you know, this small bone with flicks of 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:13.840 meat on it and saying where's the rest of it? 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:15.800 And they're saying it's right in front of you. Enjoyed. 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:18.440 This is the detail to go back to where we started. 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:20.360 But you had raised a wild card in that conversation 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:22.360 with the advisors, which I have to admit I'd not 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:26.320 been focusing so much on because it sounds so so 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:29.200 much wishful thinking. But you know, this possibility that the 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:33.040 Democrats could win the Senate and House of Representatives as 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:36.520 well as the presidency, is that really plausible? I mean, 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:39.160 certainly the people who had taught me through some of 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:44.600 these races earlier in the year, it just looked like 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.480 a big ass, particularly in the Senate, because every Senate 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:50.800 seat being contested pretty much is democratic. They can't afford 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:51.640 to lose even one. 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:54.440 Yeah, it's a bad map for them this year. They're 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:56.840 going to lose West Virginia. They have fifty one seats. 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:59.440 Now, I guess we should just remind people outside the 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:01.320 states way the elections. 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:04.560 Wait, yeah, why the map is the crowd? This is 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:08.040 the grash course. They there are very few senators in 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:13.000 America who represent a party other than the dominant party 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:16.199 in that state. In other words, you got red states. 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:18.280 You have blue states. They didn't have two red senators 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.920 or two blue senators. Very few divided. West Virginia's divide 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:24.960 and Joe Manchiin isn't running again, and that is no 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:27.560 one expects that to seat to stick with the Democrats. 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:30.120 It'll flip hard to the Republicans. 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:31.480 Because many people didn't consider him to be a temper 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:32.160 correct correct. 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:35.160 He was sort of a dying breed of red state democrat. 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.559 And so now that the starting point is fifty to fifty, 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:41.640 it basically all comes down to more or less Ohio 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:45.880 and Montana, two red states where Democrats have incumbent senators 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.280 shared Brown and Ohio John Tester and Montana. We're trying 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:52.240 to hold on basically running at arms length from Harris 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:54.200 and even more and when it was Biden, they were 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:59.000 running it miles length from Biden, trying to sort of 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.880 squeak by still against Democratic headwinds that have been shifting. 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:09.320 So can it happened for Democrats? Can this wave that 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:13.880 is maybe building or maybe cresting, It's unclear. If it's 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:16.959 just a building wave that will continue as momentum, then 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:19.800 Democrats might become the dog that caught the car and 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:23.240 then suddenly they in that scenario would be almost certain 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:25.480 that they would have the House by a fairly healthy margin. 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:28.440 Maybe Harris gets selected, and then of course, maybe they 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:30.240 sweep by in the Senate with a fifty to fifty 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:33.600 tie that the Vice President Tim Walls, Harris's running mate, 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:35.960 could split ties in so they can ram stuff through. 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.600 Suddenly they get what's called a reconciliation bill, which is 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:41.880 a grab bag of stuff that they can push through. 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:43.160 You can do one of those a year or so, 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:47.200 and this, you know, now it's a question of wish list. 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:51.320 Right So right now they're like quite a long way 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:54.440 away from that, correct Right So, right now, beating Donald 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:58.240 Trump is enough. And we have seen not a hint 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:03.200 really of policy dispute among Democrats at this convention. They 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:06.320 are perfectly fine to break out the same song sheet 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:10.240 and you have a show of unity. They can continue 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.679 to do that quite easily if Republicans hold at least 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:15.040 one chamber, because you have a boogeyman, and by definition 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:17.559 you're constrained by what has to be a by part 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:20.600 as an agreement. If they catch the car, if they 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:22.520 get all three, if this is some kind of wave 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:27.400 that's been building, then Harris is going to have to 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:28.560 decide what she. 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:31.720 I think lack of opposition is probably a problem that 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:35.000 they would like to face. But I'm struck that it's 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:37.120 the one thing, even with all these good vibes, it's 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:41.240 the one thing that they do seem to be superstitious 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.320 about even thinking about. In the UK and actually I 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:46.320 think quite a lot of other countries, the custom in 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:48.840 any election is not to jinx it and never talk 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:50.280 as if you assume. 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:51.320 That you're going to win, or assume. 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.560 Here it's mandatory even if you don't have a chance 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:56.760 in hell. You have to talk describe yourself as the 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:59.600 next president or the next senator. So we will see, 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:01.320 but gosh, thank you very much. 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:01.800 Thank you. 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.360 So on the sidelines of the convention, in my continued 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:11.720 efforts to inject substance into the vibes, I sat down 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:16.000 with Heather Bouchet, an economist who previously served as the 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:18.800 president and CEO of the Washington Center for Equitable Growth 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:22.960 and at the Center for American Progress, among other things. 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.600 She does now currently serve as a member of President 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:29.800 Joe Biden's Council of Economic Advisors, but she spoke to 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:33.760 me very much in her personal capacity, and what I 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:36.080 wanted to hear from her was what she thought about 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:40.000 this ticket and the emerging economic plan in so far 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:47.880 as we've seen it from Vice President Harris Heather, thank 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:50.360 you very much for doing this. I should also ask 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:51.960 you with this your first convention. 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:54.920 No, this is my second convention. But now I'm very 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:58.280 excited to be here, and you know, God to hear 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:00.720 the presidents speak last night and to see actually the 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:03.600 Vice president speaking. You know, she talked a little bit 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:06.000 about her economics. But it's very exciting to be able 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:07.600 to be a part of this historic moment. 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:09.400 And did you always know you were coming? I just 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:11.560 wondered whether if you, like me, were thinking a couple 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:13.480 of months ago that this was not necessarily going to 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:14.760 be a fun event to attend. 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:18.400 I had made my reservations many many months ago. I 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:21.440 think it's important, especially for those on the ECON team 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:26.000 in general. You know, I think about economics, to see 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:27.920 what people are talking about in terms of the economy, 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.440 what are the questions on people's minds, and that helps 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:32.120 us think about what kinds of policy issues we want 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:32.560 to focus on. 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:33.000 Now. 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:35.320 I mean, you are you're sitting in the White House 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:38.400 or I guess adjoining the White House because most people 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:39.960 end up there's no room in the White House for 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:42.720 most of the officials who work there. I'm fascinated just 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:44.960 on a personal level, how it's been to be sitting 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:47.360 there the last few weeks as the election has just 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:49.920 been turned on its head. I mean, how has that 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:51.200 felt like on the inside. 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:53.760 Well, I can see a couple of things. I Mean, 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:56.880 the reality is is that the economy is this huge 0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:59.800 HiT's this huge beast, and there's so much that has 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:03.280 been moving forward, and so I have been really focused on, 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:05.840 you know, watching where the numbers are coming in, what's 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:08.680 happening with jobs and inflation and all of these sorts 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:11.560 of questions, and you know, in thinking about how the 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:14.280 policy agenda that the President and the Vice President put 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:16.960 out many months ago when they put forth the budget, 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:21.760 they are teeing up a whole set of policies that 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:23.840 we want to do to make sure that we continue 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:28.520 to see an economy that delivers for working families. So 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:31.199 those are some of the questions that continue to be 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:32.760 important in front and center. 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:35.000 Regardless of he's on the top of the ticket. All Right, 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:36.360 it sounds like I'm not gonna be able to get 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:40.320 you on all the sort of personal misgivings or not 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:44.000 of what's happened. But I mean on that point, and 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:46.280 you sounded a little bit like it even just then. 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:49.040 You know, one criticism that's been leveled at the was 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:52.600 leveled at the Biden Harris campaign was that there was 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:57.280 too much focus in those campaign speeches on the past achievements, 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:00.720 and he almost seemed to be sometimes telling people they 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:03.520 should feel better about the economy than they actually were. 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.719 I mean, do you recognize that as a criticism. 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.480 Gosh, looking back over the past four years, the United 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.399 States and around the world, we've all been through the Ringer, 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:17.240 this global pandemic. It upended economies. We saw how because 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:21.280 of these global supply chains that were so fragile, we 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:25.000 had these really big price bikes because you know, people 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:27.480 couldn't get to work and things couldn't get made, and 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:29.800 we saw all of these challenges, and I think what 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:32.320 I've learned as an economist is that it takes a 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:35.960 while for that to work through an economy. But it 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:39.520 also you know, I think you hear people being frustrated 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:44.359 that things aren't better as quickly as maybe they would like, 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:47.520 or and I think this is really an important piece 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.160 of the puzzle for a lot of people. The economy 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:52.399 wasn't working before the pandemic. You know, here in the 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:56.200 United States, we've had half century of rising economic inequality. 0:18:56.480 --> 0:19:00.240 Families were struggling with affording care and education and in 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:03.120 housing and all of these things pre pandemic. And there 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:07.359 was this moment during the pandemic where policymakers gay families 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.240 a lot of support, and a lot of people change jobs, 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:13.280 and there's a lot of opportunity. We've actually seen three 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:18.040 years now of historic new business startups. And yet I 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:21.160 think you know now that much of that aid has 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:25.600 started to fade or has been pulled back. I think 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:28.040 people are sort of like, well, wait a minute, how 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:30.119 is this new economy going to work for me and 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:32.879 my family? And so I think the fact that a 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:35.359 lot of investments have been made, but they aren't quite 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:36.800 being being felt yet. 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:39.480 Even in a normal circumstance, if you had vice president 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:43.840 running for president, there's always that balance that he or 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:47.760 she would have to strike between talking up the achievements 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:50.320 of the administration they were involved with, but also pointing 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:53.040 to the unfinished business. And I guess that I guess 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:57.119 there's a feeling that with the Biden campaign that there 0:19:57.240 --> 0:19:59.600 was too much focus on all the great things you've done, 0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:02.840 the big bits of unfinished business. I mean, you've touched 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:03.480 on some of them. 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.399 So first of all, I think one big piece of 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:09.719 unfinished business that I think does need to be mentioned 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:12.720 is that so much of this administration has done has 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:15.640 been about investing in the United States all across America, 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:21.480 investing in communities, investing in new manufacturing capacity, investing in 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:24.399 making and clean energy economy. All of that needs to continue. 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:26.960 But there are these big ticket items that we haven't 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:30.679 been able to that still need work. And so one 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:34.000 of those, of course is housing. We've seen challenges in 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.400 insufficient housing supply. We've seen that it just did cost 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:40.640 too much for families. It was really exciting to see 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.639 the Vice President come out with a set of policies 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:46.840 it would increase housing supply. We also need to make 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:51.560 sure that for those families that have kids that in particular, 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:53.800