1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:04,359 Speaker 1: Welcome back to wellness un Mass. I'm doctor Nicole Sathfire 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: and this is your weekly rundown. Okay, I have to 3 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,239 Speaker 1: talk about what's going on at the CDC right now. 4 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: It was a busy week. We said a lot of hearings, 5 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: we're having ASIP meetings. More is going to be happening today. 6 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: But here's where we're at so far. Now. If you 7 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: don't know doctor Susan Manarz, who was the most recent 8 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: past CDC director. She was appointed by President Trump. She 9 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: underwent Senate confirmation, the first one to ever have to 10 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,319 Speaker 1: do that. Twenty nine days after she assumed that role 11 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: as CDC director, Secretary Kennedy and President Trump fired her. 12 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:39,919 Speaker 1: Huh why did they fire her after they just had 13 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: all this glowing praise to say about her? Good question. 14 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,480 Speaker 1: We don't really know, and the way it's playing out 15 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: feels like an episode of Saved by the Bells for 16 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: all of you nineties children or nineties hot lessons out there. 17 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: Secretary Kennedy said that he couldn't trust her. Doctor Manaras said, 18 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: I was asked to rubber stamp the new ACIP potential 19 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: future changes and recommendations to the childhood vaccine schedule, and 20 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: you know, it's gone back and forth. Secretary Kennedy last 21 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: week in the Senate Finance hearing said that doctor Manaraz 22 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: is essentially a liar. He just straight up called her 23 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: a liar about a conversation they had, and doctor Manares 24 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: in her hearing also called him a liar, saying that 25 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 1: the conversation, well, actually she didn't directly call him a liar. 26 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: He straight up called her a liar. She kind of 27 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: danced around it, and you know, it was kind of 28 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: mincing words. But it seems like if I was to 29 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: deduce what happened in that closed door meeting with RFK 30 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: Junior and doctor Manares, it seems like RFK Junior may 31 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: have said something along the lines of, well, the new 32 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: ACEP committee is likely to bring forth updated recommendations when 33 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: it comes to the childhood vaccine schedule. Can I trust 34 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: that you are going to accept these recommendations and codify 35 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: them into the normal CDC recommendations. Doctor Manas responded something 36 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: along the lines of, well, you know, I'll take a 37 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,799 Speaker 1: look at their recommendations and as long as the data 38 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: supports it and supports the change, then yeah, but I 39 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: have to see the data, and it seems like maybe 40 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: that wasn't good enough for Secretary Kennedy. He wanted assurances 41 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: from her that she was going to accept whatever the 42 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: newly appointed ASIP provided. Obviously he can't ask her. He 43 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: really shouldn't ethically ask her a rubber stamp something without 44 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: the data, and if he did, that's wrong on his part. 45 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: So they've gone back and forth. There's a lot of 46 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: figure pointing in the hearing this week. Senator Mullins actually 47 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: made a word that maybe there was a recording of 48 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: this conversation and he was really trying to go her 49 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 1: into changing what she was saying happened in that meeting. 50 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,679 Speaker 1: It turned out it doesn't seem like there is a recording. 51 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: He had to walk back that statement. It's hard to say. 52 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,959 Speaker 1: All we know is RFK Junior is saying he doesn't 53 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: trust her, he can't trust her, and she's saying RFK 54 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: Junior was telling her to accept recommendations even if there's 55 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: no data supporting it. Either way, it's a mess and 56 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: it's really embarrassing what's going on at the CDC right now. 57 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: I don't care if they're doing good things in terms 58 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: of reevaluating certain vaccines, the timelines, all of this. I 59 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: think that's always a good thing. But when we keep 60 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: hearing radical transparency and we're going to regain trust, I 61 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: can tell you these shenanigans are taking us farther away 62 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: from that mission. Now. Towards the end of this week, 63 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: the newly appointed a SIP your remember, R F. K 64 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: Junior fired all the original members essentially, and now he 65 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: appointed new members, which a lot of them, you know, 66 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,119 Speaker 1: are not surprising. They're kind of aligned with what Secretary 67 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: Kennedy has been talking about for decades. Vaccines a little 68 00:03:55,880 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: bit more skeptical, not necessarily the you know, the traditional 69 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: medicine people we've seen in the past, which, by the way, 70 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: is a good thing. It's good to shake things up 71 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: and have different opinions. You want that debate, you want 72 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: honest debate. But a lot of what I've heard so far, 73 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: they've talked about the MMR vaccine, they've talked about hepatitis B, 74 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: and we're moving on to COVID. And while they're making recommendations, 75 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: the recommendations, they're essentially saying, well, we don't like the 76 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: current situation because there's a lack of data. So these 77 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: are our new recommendations, and I can tell you those 78 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: new recommendations have just as much data. Actually, those new 79 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: recommendations have even less data than the original recommendations. So 80 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: if the overarching goal here is to put forth evidence 81 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: based recommendations, the current situation has the most evidence, and 82 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: so these additional recommendations have even less evidence, although they 83 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: do make for valid arguments. I personally am not for 84 00:04:55,560 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: universally vaccinating all newborn children with hepatitis B. Personal opinion 85 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: is that this is a good conversation to have. This 86 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: should maybe be based on risk. But that's not even 87 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: what the new ACIP is talking about. They're saying, rather 88 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: than giving it at birth, let's give it at one month. 89 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: There is no study that shows that vaccine is better 90 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,840 Speaker 1: at birth or better at one month. It's kind of silly. 91 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: It's hard to wrap my head around it a little bit. 92 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: You also have some of the ACIP committee members like 93 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 1: giving anecdotal stories, and as a physician who sees patients 94 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: every single day, please stop giving anecdotal stories when we're 95 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 1: having these committee meetings. That's not what this is about. 96 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: This is about evidence based medicine, biostatistics, and so and 97 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: so forth enough with the anecdotes. It makes it just 98 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: seem very unprofessional and has me scratched in my head, like, 99 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: what are we doing here. We'll see, as we know 100 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: the ACIP recommendations, most of the time it gets codified 101 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: into the formal CDC recommendations. Seeing has the CDC director 102 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 1: was ousted because she questioned the possible changes, my guess is, 103 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: whatever this new ACIP committee recommends, you're going to see 104 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: it codified by the CDC. The problem is these recommendations. 105 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: While they love to say, well, we don't mandate anything, 106 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 1: we just recommend bull crap. Okay, we know that the 107 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: official CDC recommendations then turns into mandates. The school mandates 108 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 1: the insurance CMS, Medicaid, all childhood health insurance, like the 109 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: CHIP programs, and so and so forth. So if you 110 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: remove something all of a sudden, it's no longer going 111 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 1: to be covered under insurance. If you keep something there, 112 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: it's likely going to be mandated by most public schools. 113 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: So all these things are very interesting, And you know, 114 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: one of the things that the CDC New ACIP Committee 115 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: is arguing is the MMR vaccine and whether it should 116 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: be used in combination with the vericella for kids under four. Well, 117 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: the problem I have with this is that the FDA 118 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: says it's okay. So I don't understand why if the 119 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: FDA is saying certain things are okay, like hepatitis be 120 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: at birth. If the FDA is saying it's okay, who 121 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: is the ACIP and what data do they have to 122 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: say it's not okay. So I recommend that these all 123 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: of these facets under the HHS get aligned, because you 124 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: just look silly if you're not aligned. If the FDA 125 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: says one thing, ACIP says one thing, I mean, it's 126 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: really just a circus and it's embarrassing, and it's taking 127 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: us farther away from trust in our public health, and 128 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: that's gonna be a problem. We already have a rise 129 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: in measles cases, whipping cough, and the more vaccine confusion 130 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: we create, the more preventable disease we will see. And 131 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: that is the fact. And kids are going to get sick, 132 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: some kids may die, and we need to get our 133 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: crap together because it's really upsetting. Thanks for listening to 134 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: Wellness un Masks on America's number one podcast network. iHeart 135 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: follow Wellness Unmasked with doctor Nipole Sapphire and start listening 136 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts, 137 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: and we will catch you next time.