1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, do you live in Washington, DC? Are you 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: sitting around fretting about this upcoming election? Maybe you're even 3 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: working on one of these campaigns. Well, we've got a 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: great stress reliever for you, and that's coming out to 5 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: see us on May thirtieth at the Warner Theater for 6 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know Live. 7 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, we guarantee zero political jokes, one hundred percent zero 8 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 2: political jokes if you come out and see us. We're 9 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 2: gonna be in Medford, mass on May twenty ninth. The 10 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 2: next night, we'll be in DC on May thirtieth, and 11 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 2: then the night after that we'll be at our old friend, 12 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 2: the Town Hall in Manhattan Town, NYC. 13 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: That's right, So check out tickets. You can go to 14 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: stuff youshould Know dot com, you can go to the 15 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:42,919 Speaker 1: theater websites themselves, avoid those secondary ticket brokers, or check 16 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: out our link tree, right, Josh. 17 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, link tree sysk Lot. 18 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 19 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 20 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 2: Chuck and Ben's here too, So this is Stuff you 21 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 2: should Know. 22 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, a big trigger warning upfront, and we may issue 23 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: even in a second one after breaks or something. This 24 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: is about a human monster. It's a story of a 25 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 1: human monster who did awful things to children. So don't 26 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: listen to it if that is a trigger, and don't 27 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: let your children listen to this. 28 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 2: Yes, for sure, So, Chuck, I'm always on the lookout 29 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 2: for somebody who's grave i'd like to spit on, and 30 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 2: I've never found anybody before before we started researching this. 31 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, boy, no getting around it. 32 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 2: If I ever make it out to Hickory, Mississippi, I 33 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 2: will definitely go out of my way to spit on 34 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 2: Georgia Tan's grave because she deserves it. 35 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll get to her sort of upbringing here in 36 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: a sec but just very quickly. Georgia Tan was a 37 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: woman who worked in social work, and she made a 38 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: long and wealthy career. Got rich by kidnapping babies, falsifying 39 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: birth records, stealing kids from generally poor families, uneducated mothers, 40 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,239 Speaker 1: and selling them to rich people. 41 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, she was hands down the wealthiest social worker to 42 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 2: ever live. 43 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm having a hard time already. 44 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 2: So Chuck, let's set the scene a little bit, because, like, 45 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 2: the idea of adoption is not that old in the 46 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 2: United States for a very long time. If you were orphaned, 47 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 2: if your parents abandoned you, whatever led you to this 48 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: position where you were no longer under the care of 49 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 2: a grown up, you were extraordinarily vulnerable. If you were lucky, 50 00:02:56,240 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 2: relatives might take you in, maybe a kindly neighbor, but 51 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 2: you were also very much at risk for basically becoming 52 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 2: somebody's indentured servant. It was like, without that whole idea 53 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 2: of that's what became of orphans, we wouldn't have Dickens today. 54 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: Basically, Yeah, for sure, there were a lot of you know, 55 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: we've talked a lot about sort of the movement after 56 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 1: industrialization from more rural farming communities to the city. That 57 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: increased a lot of the kind of the rate of 58 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: orphans in cities because in a lot of these poorer neighborhoods, 59 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: you had outbreaks of cholera, you had yellow fever. A 60 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: lot of these urban communities were decimated, killing parents, leaving 61 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: a lot of children behind abandoned. One thing that happened 62 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: during that period was something called the orphan train. Starting 63 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: in eighteen fifty four, for about sixty five years, about 64 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty thousand orphan kids were shipped from 65 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: the northwest and cities to rural towns. But again, most 66 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: of the time it looked more like a slave trade 67 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: than like they weren't being adopted as family members. They 68 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: were being kind of auctioned off at train stations and lineups. 69 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, they were basically adopted as hands. I wanted to 70 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 2: say hired hands, but I don't think they were hired. 71 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 2: In some cases, they didn't even get room and board, 72 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 2: Like if you were fostered out, if you made it 73 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 2: into a foster home, you very often had to work 74 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 2: to repay the family for your care. Yeah, so this 75 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 2: was how it was for a very long time. Adoption 76 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 2: just it wasn't It didn't click with Americans in particular, 77 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 2: at least because kids that were in that situation were 78 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 2: viewed as like inferior, morally inferior, potentially genetically inferior. It 79 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 2: was a very mean time. So you didn't want those kids, 80 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 2: You didn't want to bring them into your family. And 81 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 2: it wasn't until I think about the nineteen thirties that 82 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 2: the idea of adoption as we understand it today, where 83 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:15,799 Speaker 2: a couple or a family want to include a child 84 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 2: that's not biologically theirs into their family that's less than 85 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 2: a century old. That concept in the United States. 86 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of like adoption as we know it, out 87 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 1: of if you were out of wedlock. It's horrific to 88 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 1: think of how we thought of these kids and the 89 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: women that were in that situation. Just recently, I went 90 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: to Memphis, and that's where this story takes place, is 91 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: where my mom grew up in her family. And so 92 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: we went there on a trip to kind of show 93 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: my daughter where grand grand grew up in her high 94 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: school and all that stuff. And at one point we 95 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: were driving through a neighborhood and my mom was like, Oh, 96 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: there's the old house for unwed mothers. 97 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 3: And I was like, wait, I've heard that term. What 98 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 3: is that? 99 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: And she was like, if you were out of wedlock, 100 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 1: then there's a very good chance that you were sent 101 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: to live in a house like kind of removed. 102 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you told the neighbors that you that your 103 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 2: daughter went off to stay with relatives, ye, to help 104 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 2: like a sick aunt or something like that. And then 105 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 2: she would come back ten months later and everybody would 106 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 2: move along like there was nothing, like nothing had happened. 107 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 2: But there would be a child out there in the 108 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 2: world that was no longer with her. 109 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's the sort of stage that we set 110 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: for when Georgia Tan came into the world. I was 111 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: born in eighteen ninety one in Mississippi, raised in Hickory, Mississippi. 112 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:43,359 Speaker 1: Was the daughter of Beulah and George Tan. Her father 113 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: was a very prominent judge. Part of his job as 114 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: a judge back then, because of the way things were, 115 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: was placing kids, finding homes for orphan kids and abandoned 116 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 1: kids and neglected kids. And because, like we said, adoption 117 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: wasn't such a big thing at the time. So that 118 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: was part of his job, was placing these kids, sometimes 119 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: in foster homes, sometimes with families who you know, sometimes 120 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: it was a great situation, but not always, and sometimes 121 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: just like to the state asylum. 122 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 2: And also the idea of like what you think of 123 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 2: in like that old timey orphanage where there's like nuns 124 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 2: walking around like that was a real thing. Like charities 125 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 2: often ran homes for children orphanages. Yeah, but it wasn't 126 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 2: any place she wanted to be, although it was. I mean, 127 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 2: I suppose it was better than the alternative in a 128 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 2: lot of cases. But I think that you were just 129 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 2: so vulnerable that that's not something you could say across 130 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 2: the board, Like, I'm sure there are people kids who 131 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 2: were better off fending for themselves on the street than 132 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 2: in some of the homes that they were put in 133 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 2: or some of the orphanages that they stayed in. It 134 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 2: was just nobody's looking out for them. 135 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So in nineteen oh six, when Georgia 136 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: was fifteen years old, this is kind of how she, 137 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: I guess, got the idea for all this. She met 138 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: a couple of orphaned kids, a five year old and 139 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: a three year old, from her father's court, and she, 140 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: a fifteen year old, talked a wealthy local couple into 141 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: adopting them. And I guess that's when the light bulb 142 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: went off where she equated like placing families with people 143 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: who had money, and instead of in a kind hearted 144 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: way giving these kids a home, it was like, I 145 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: can make some money off of this. 146 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's crazy, that's a crazy thought. But that was 147 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 2: basically the germ of this whole thing. 148 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: It's a crazy instinct, you know, Yeah, but it says 149 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: a lot about her. 150 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 2: I think that was very much your instinct, and I 151 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 2: think that's it says everything you need to know about her. 152 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: Not only did she have that thought, she ran with it. Yeah, 153 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 2: Initially she was going to become an attorney, and she 154 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 2: passed the Mississippi bar. But either her father forbade her 155 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 2: from following that and sent off to be schooled and 156 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 2: to become a concert pianist, or it was just socially, 157 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 2: you just didn't a woman couldn't be an attorney. I'm 158 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 2: not sure which one was the case, but either way, 159 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 2: she didn't end up being an attorney. She also didn't 160 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 2: end up being a concert pianist. She ended up becoming 161 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 2: a social worker and her first her first gig was 162 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 2: with Mississippi, I think the state of Mississippi, basically working 163 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 2: as a social worker, visiting homes and very quickly stealing 164 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 2: babies to sell herself, Like right out of the gate, 165 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 2: she basically started the scam that she would later become 166 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 2: famous for. 167 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a woman named Rose Harvey, which, you know, 168 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: some sources say it was like her very first you know, 169 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: sort of field visit. Other say it was just early on. 170 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: But at any rate, she visited Rose Harvey. 171 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 3: Who was young. 172 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: I've seen that she was widowed, but I also saw 173 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: that the father of her kids was forced to sign 174 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: a false document basically stating that she was an unfit mother. 175 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 2: I think it was her father. Oh, it was her father, 176 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 2: That's what I got from it. Yeah, but it could 177 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 2: also be confused that they were. 178 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought it was Onyx's father. But either way, 179 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: I mean, it's no less reprehensible either way. But she 180 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: found Georgia Tan found Onyx, who was a two year 181 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: old boy playing at the house, basically walked in and 182 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 1: kidnapped this kid, just walked out, put the baby in 183 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: her car, got her father of the judge after, you know, 184 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: a member of her family signed that she was an 185 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: unfit mother and had the boy listed as an unfit 186 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: child or I'm sorry, an abandoned child. 187 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 3: And that was it. Very sadly. 188 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: Rose Harvey was even able to muster up the money 189 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: to hire an attorney. But she was ill, she had diabetes, 190 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: she was not doing well. She's very ill and just 191 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: stood no chance basically against that system. 192 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and in particular, the father of Georgia Tan got 193 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 2: involved and was like this is not happening, Like do 194 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 2: not let this case go forward, Like he was a 195 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 2: judge in the nineteen aughts, Mississippi. Yeah, I'm pretty sure 196 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 2: he could make that happen. So, yeah, like you said, 197 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 2: she never had a chance. But either because of that 198 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 2: particular case or another similar case, or potentially because Georgia 199 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:31,079 Speaker 2: tan was actually a she had a lifelong partner, another 200 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 2: woman who was a childhood friend, and they actually, I guess, 201 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 2: fell in love and spent the rest of their lives together. 202 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 2: That is also possibly one of the reasons why they 203 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:44,319 Speaker 2: got out of Mississippi. But eventually, I think in the 204 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 2: early nineteen twenties they left Mississippi, the landed in Texas 205 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 2: and then ultimately ended up in Memphis a short time later. 206 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 2: But very bizarrely, in the interim, her partner had gotten 207 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 2: pregnant by a man out of wedlock and had a 208 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 2: son named George. So now they had a son, and 209 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 2: then Georgia adopted a girl named June, so they built 210 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 2: a little family. But when you know more about Georgia's 211 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 2: view on kids and adoption and how she really viewed it, 212 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 2: it's really strange to me that she ever did it herself. 213 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. 214 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: This is another story too that also, like a lot 215 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: of times, things happen in history just because of when 216 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: they happened. She was definitely fired from her job for 217 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 1: doing what she did. Like she may have left also 218 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: because of her relationship, but she was fired. And it 219 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,839 Speaker 1: was a time where like no one knows you can 220 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: just move a state over right, start over, and it's 221 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: not like there's really no way, Like if she didn't 222 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: list them maybe on a resume or whatever, or you know, 223 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,439 Speaker 1: who knows even how it worked back then, she would 224 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: not have been able to get work elsewhere, which is 225 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: still a problem today. Yes, with that terrible story about 226 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: the fake doctor who just kept practicing in different states. 227 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 3: It was a podcast. I can't remember doctor death, I think. 228 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: But it's amazing even with technology today that that can 229 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: still happen, you know. 230 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. And also one of the things that I found 231 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,319 Speaker 2: from researching this is that the secrecy that developed at 232 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 2: this time around adoption, that's still around today. We did 233 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:27,079 Speaker 2: a short stuff on it, I think, right that still 234 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 2: is keeping kids in the system vulnerable to exploitation and 235 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 2: predation and including essentially private sales. Rehoming, I think. 236 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 3: Is what they call it. Should we take a break. 237 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: Let's take a break, all right, We'll take a break. 238 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go wash our mouse out with soap. We'll 239 00:13:44,559 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: be right back, all right. So Georgia Tan makes her 240 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: way to Tennessee to the Tennessee Children's Home Society was 241 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: where her next job was. And from nineteen twenty four 242 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: to nineteen fifty, span of twenty six years, she sold, 243 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: kidnapped and sold more than five thousand kids. 244 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 2: And as you said before, she made millions of dollars. 245 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 2: From what I saw, she made around a million dollars 246 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 2: in her time, which is equivalent to something like eleven 247 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 2: million today. And she sold these kids to some really 248 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 2: high profile customers. A lot of them were in New York, 249 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 2: a lot of them were in California, and some of 250 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 2: them are stars like Joan Crawford adopted twins from. 251 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 3: Her, apparently. Yeah, and this is maybe you saw the 252 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 3: movie be Mommy, dearist. This was not that girl. 253 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: I believe that was Christina, who was also adopted, But 254 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: these were her later adopted daughters, Cynthia and Kathy, but 255 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: also Lana Turner, Dick Powell, and June Allison pearl Buck 256 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: the author. And then, in a very weird and sad twist, 257 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: a guy that we worked with, Rick Flair, the wrestler, 258 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: was one of these babies, yep, which is just crazy 259 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: to think about and obviously has deep emotional trauma. 260 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 3: But I think he. 261 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: Elected to not sort of find his biological family, right. 262 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 2: Yes, biological brother reached out to him and he's like, 263 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 2: I don't I don't really want to strike up a 264 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 2: relationship here. Earlier, man, he's like, what are we going 265 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 2: to talk about? I think is what he said. But yeah, 266 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: he said that. In addition to that, it's like just this, 267 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 2: the trauma from it is still with him obviously because 268 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 2: he stolen from his family, Like these kids were stolen 269 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 2: from their families. In some cases, their parents spent the 270 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 2: rest of their lives looking for them. But because of 271 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 2: the way that these adoptions were carried out, there was 272 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 2: no paper trail that these people could access to find 273 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 2: whatever happened to their kids. 274 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely not. She made sure that happened. She very 275 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: much was of the mind, like we mentioned earlier, that 276 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: like some of society viewed these kids as less than 277 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: she was one hundred percent down with that line of thinking. 278 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: She thought that poor single mothers were damaged goods. She 279 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: called them breeders, she called them cows. She thought they 280 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: were genetically inferior she used marketing tactics. She was a fraudster, 281 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: but all of this like worked. You don't you don't 282 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: adopt out five thousand and children without working really really 283 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: hard to do that using the most you know, in 284 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: her case, the most reprehensible tactics you can imagine. 285 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk about her tactics real quick, shall we, 286 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 2: because I can't wait any longer. It's just I just can't. 287 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, Well, before we get to the actual tactics 288 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: of the adoption, we should say this whole time this 289 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: is going on, she's running a house of horrors in Memphis, 290 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: she's running an orphanage there, and hundreds of babies are 291 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: dying under her care. So that's just sort of the 292 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: background of what's going on while she's adopting these kids out. 293 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 2: Right, And we said that adoption wasn't really kind of 294 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 2: a thing in the United States until about the nineteen 295 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 2: thirties and it started to kind of spread. Here's the 296 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 2: big twist about this whole thing. The reason that we 297 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 2: have adoption today, the way that it is, like the 298 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 2: fact that childless couples will go, you know, take a 299 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 2: kid into their life and like you're like you're my family. 300 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 2: Now you're our family. She started that, Like, you can 301 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 2: trace that almost single handedly back to Georgia tan which 302 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 2: in a way like kind of complicates her legacy, but 303 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 2: really doesn't because the stuff she did was so despicable 304 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 2: that even that it can be you can't even consider 305 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 2: that like a mark in her favor. It just just 306 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 2: immediately is overwhelmed by all the horrible stuff she did. 307 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't complicated for me at all. That would 308 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: have changed anyway, and we did not need a human 309 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 1: monster to make it happen. That's like saying, well, we 310 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: got Volkswagens because of Hitler, so you know, right, you go, boss. 311 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,400 Speaker 2: Yeah that's a great point. But yeah, no, she's kind 312 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 2: of like the opposite of where like you really like 313 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 2: somebody's work, but you find out that they're a terrible person, 314 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 2: you have to reconcile that this is like hating the person. 315 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 2: And just you know, there was one piece of her 316 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 2: work that was you know, worthwhile or legitimate, but yet 317 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:01,479 Speaker 2: doesn't do anything. 318 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, so her you know, she would adopt kids out 319 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: of all ages, but what she really concentrated on was babies, 320 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: because you know, even today, adopting a baby is much 321 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: more in demand, and especially then when adoption was just 322 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: sort of a new thing, she was sort of selling 323 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 1: the idea like, hey, you get a blank slate here, 324 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: like these these babies. You know some of them may 325 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: be from bad homes, but you've got them right out 326 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: of the gate, and you can you can mold them 327 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: into whatever you want. And that's when she wasn't lying 328 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,239 Speaker 1: about who the parents were, because she also did that 329 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: and would say things like, you know, there was a 330 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: one night stand basically between a social lighte and a 331 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 1: doctor and it was just a big mistake. But you 332 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 1: should see their genes, incredible genes. 333 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 2: One of the other things she was very well known for, 334 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 2: especially in Tennessee, was the at every Christmas she would 335 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 2: take out advertising space in the press scimitar of the 336 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 2: Memphis newspaper and it was like a Christmas adoption drive, 337 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 2: a baby drive. But they it wasn't like open your 338 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 2: home to this wonderful child. It was like, so do 339 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 2: you want a real live Christmas present? That was like 340 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 2: one of the one of the ads, could you use 341 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 2: a Christmas baby? And she would like they would vow, 342 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 2: like this is a drive, we're gonna We're gonna adopt 343 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 2: off twenty five to thirty kids. And I think to 344 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 2: the people who were reading this and who saw this 345 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 2: every Christmas, they were taking it like it was an 346 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 2: adoption drive. They didn't realize. And this is the thing, 347 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 2: no one seems to have really realized, at least no 348 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 2: one who had any real power to do anything about it, 349 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 2: knew what was going on, that she was making this 350 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 2: money like this wasn't allowed to go on and open 351 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 2: in o in sight. There was a lot of mechanations 352 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 2: in groundwork laid to keep this as far out of 353 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 2: the public eye as possible, but to let her just 354 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 2: do it as flagrantly as possible. The general person who 355 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 2: was aware of her didn't know what she was doing, 356 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 2: I should. 357 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,239 Speaker 1: Say no, or like you said, they thought that, you know, 358 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:19,640 Speaker 1: they thought she was a hero. 359 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 2: Right, They didn't realize she was selling kids openly in 360 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 2: the newspaper every Christmas. 361 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: Yes, after kidnapping them so financially. And this one was 362 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: a little hard to parse out. I've seen different things, 363 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: but what I think I found the reality, which was 364 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 1: in the state of Tennessee at the time, it was 365 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: supposed to cost seven dollars for an in state adoption 366 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: and about seven hundred to seven fifty out of state. 367 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: And I saw that she was charging more like I 368 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 1: think eighty percent of her adoptions were New York and 369 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: California to wealthy families, about five thousand dollars instead of 370 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: seven hundred dollars, which is close to ninety grand today. 371 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 2: Yes, for sure, Yeah that was I think average was 372 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 2: about like five grand. Or was that the height of 373 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 2: the whole thing. Was that as much as you would pay? 374 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 3: I'm not sure. I just saw five thousand. 375 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 2: Dollars, So the whole thing. Again, it's really tough to 376 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 2: I'm not going to hammer on this because it's just 377 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 2: so nuts. But through those Christmas drives, through introducing the 378 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 2: concept of adoption, it started to spread in Memphis, in Tennessee, 379 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 2: in the South, and it actually spread out of the South. 380 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 2: This trend of adoption grew out of the South in 381 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,640 Speaker 2: the nineteen thirties and forties again because of Georgia Tan 382 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 2: and then it just spread and kept going. But from 383 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 2: the outset she was she targeted wealthy customers, clients you 384 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 2: can't really call them anything else in New York and California, 385 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 2: like I said, but there doesn't seem to be any 386 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 2: evidence whatsoever that any of the adopting parents knew that 387 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 2: their kids were anything than what she was presenting them as, 388 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 2: which was kids from good backgrounds, Like you said, maybe 389 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 2: a one night stand and the parents had willingly given 390 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 2: them up. That's what they thought they were getting, and 391 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 2: that the fact that they had to pay through the 392 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 2: nose for them just meant that these kids were like 393 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 2: that desirable, their genes were that good. And it's ironic 394 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 2: to me because you don't think of the South as 395 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 2: being much of a trendsetter, but it set the trend 396 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 2: of adoption in the United States. It started in the 397 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 2: South and just kind of spread from there. But out 398 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 2: of the gate she targeted adoptive parents, wealthy ones in 399 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 2: New York and California. 400 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:46,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. You know, we already talked about the kidnapping. 401 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: She would sometimes she would drive around a limousine in 402 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,239 Speaker 1: a neighborhood so kids would could run out to her 403 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: car that were all excited and take them. She would 404 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 1: this is having a hard time even reading this part, 405 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,159 Speaker 1: but she would go to new mothers who had just 406 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: given birth in the hospital and tell them that their 407 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: infant was dead and steal the baby. 408 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a common trick. Another one was she 409 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 2: would present mothers who'd just given birth, who might still 410 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 2: be under the effects of anesthesia or something like that, 411 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 2: with papers and said just sign these. These are like, 412 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 2: you know, standard paperwork for having a baby, and they 413 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 2: were actually full adoption papers. So even if you could 414 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 2: say you stole my baby, there were cases where she 415 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 2: could point to paperwork that said, no, you signed your 416 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 2: kid away. Sorry, clearly you're you're crazy. Essentially, she also 417 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,679 Speaker 2: had a network of nurses like it's she was in 418 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 2: some cases present in these in the hospital and spoke 419 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 2: with some of the mothers, but she also had like 420 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 2: nurses working for her that would either trick the mothers 421 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 2: themselves or would just outright steal babies from nurseries. 422 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, nurses and fake people dressed as nurses. Yeah, I 423 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: mean it's literally not her the whole time. This is 424 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: a very very big operation. So you know earlier when 425 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: you said no one know, one empowered to stop it, like, 426 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: no one empowered, that wasn't on the dole. 427 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, And in particular, there was one woman, a judge 428 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,679 Speaker 2: named Camille Kelly, one of two women judges in the 429 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 2: South at the time, who was a progressive and a 430 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 2: juvenile court judge, and she was fully in Georgia Tan's pocket, 431 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 2: fully cooperated. There's a writer named Barbara Raymond who wrote 432 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 2: probably the most exhaustive account of this whole horrible chapter 433 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 2: of American history. And she estimated that Camille Kelly, Judge 434 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 2: Kelly supplied Georgia Tan with about twenty percent of the 435 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 2: kids that she kidnapped, So that would put it at 436 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 2: about a thousand kids that Judge Kelly essentially handed over 437 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 2: to Georgia Tan to steal and sell. 438 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's that's things that Judge Kelly was doing, 439 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: as far as bending the rules, ceiling adoption records, signing 440 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: off on false paperwork, stuff like that, and fraud to 441 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: driving around herself. There was supposedly a Catholic orphanage in 442 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:22,239 Speaker 1: Memphis where the nuns would like hide the what they 443 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 1: called the prettiest children whenever Judge Kelly pulled up outside. 444 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, just unbelievable. 445 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 2: It is super, super, just terrible. I saw an interview 446 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 2: with a woman who is now today and has been 447 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 2: for a while trying to connect these people to their 448 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 2: original biological families. If they want to see her name, 449 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 2: is Denny Glad And she was asked what she would 450 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 2: say to Georgia Tan. She said the exact same thing 451 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 2: I wanted to say, like like how how could you 452 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 2: do this? Like what was your mindset that allowed you 453 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 2: to do this over and over again? Because as bad 454 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 2: as kidnapping got, as bad as the eruption that was 455 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 2: associated with it, and in stealing and selling babies, some 456 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 2: of them were not adoptable, so she had them on 457 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 2: her hands, and as just looking at these kids as products. 458 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 2: If you had a bad product, why would you sink 459 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,919 Speaker 2: any more money into keeping that product around if it 460 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 2: wasn't gonna make you any money? And so the kids 461 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:29,120 Speaker 2: who stayed at the home with her, they were often malnourished. 462 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 2: Sometimes they would starve to death there. If they had 463 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 2: any medical issues, they would go untreated, they wouldn't get medicine. 464 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 2: They were just left to die, essentially because they weren't 465 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 2: worth the investment as far as Georgia Tan was concerned. 466 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 2: And her entire job was to help kids like that, 467 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 2: But kids like that couldn't be sold, so they didn't 468 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 2: deserve any of her time or attention or funding. 469 00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is a horrific statistic, but the toll 470 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: at her orphanage's estimated between five and six hundred kids. 471 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 1: Obviously most of them infants and babies, and this is staggering, 472 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: but it was so many children died under her care. 473 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: She may have actually affected the infant mortality rate in 474 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: Memphis because in nineteen thirty two, eight years into her 475 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: stint there, Memphis had the highest infant mortality rate in 476 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: the country. Yeah, that's no accident. 477 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 2: So one of the other things too, is she wasn't 478 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 2: reporting these deaths. She reported nineteen children's death Yeah, the 479 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 2: other five hundred to six hundred. The rest of the 480 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 2: five hundred to six hundred were never reported. No one 481 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 2: knows where they are, no one knows where they were buried. 482 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 2: They're just gone. And so I think in twenty sixteen, 483 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 2: Memphis raised a memorial over a mass grave that had 484 00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:00,040 Speaker 2: been discovered with I think forty kids are maybe that 485 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 2: was the nineteen I think they found a grave with 486 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 2: those kids in it, and they erected a memorial to 487 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 2: those kids and all the others who were just lost 488 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 2: to history and time. And it was just it was 489 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 2: a terrible place to be. But being adopted out wasn't 490 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 2: necessarily much better. You said that the babies were advertised 491 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 2: as blank slates. Not all of the kids that were 492 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 2: sold were babies, and she didn't screen the adoptive parents, 493 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 2: so there were kids that were extremely vulnerable to the 494 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 2: idea to sexual abuse, and apparently they also endured sexual 495 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 2: abuse in the home as well. 496 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the just the mental damage of being ripped 497 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: away from your biological family. 498 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, that too. 499 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: So I say we take a second break, and we 500 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: must muster the will to finish this thing. Yeah, and 501 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: we'll be back and talk about some of those pretty 502 00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: high powered people in Tennessee that were on the dole 503 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: out of this. 504 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 2: All right, So I want to say, yeah, I guess 505 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 2: we've made it through the worst part, but it's not 506 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 2: like anything gets much better. We talked about how she 507 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 2: was Georgia Town was able to get away with this. 508 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 2: She did this from nineteen twenty four to nineteen fifty, 509 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 2: like you said, and you can't do that without the 510 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 2: cooperation of essentially the city that you're working in. And 511 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 2: lucky for her, the mayor of Memphis at the time 512 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 2: was a guy named Ed Crump. And if you want 513 00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 2: to know anything, all you need to know about Ed Crump. 514 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 2: You just need to know his nickname, which was Boss Crump, 515 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 2: and he was a progressive mayor who really cared about 516 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 2: the city and was extraordinarily corrupt himself. 517 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, so there was there was Boss Crump, and then 518 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: there was this other guy, an attorney named abe Waaldour, 519 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: who she hired as her personal attorney and he also 520 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: worked as the attorney for the agency. Was also a 521 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: very influential guy and successful lobbyists. In between Waldour and Crump, 522 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 1: she basically got whatever she wanted. She got records falsified, 523 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: she got records sealed. If there were laws that didn't 524 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: jibe with what was going on, they had the power 525 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: to get those laws changed. Crump had a lot of 526 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: sway at least and we'll talk about this in a minute, 527 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: to at least to a certain point on the governor's office, 528 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: and they just you know, they were all getting kickbacks. 529 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 3: Everyone was on the dole, so they would do whatever 530 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 3: she wanted. Yeah. 531 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,479 Speaker 2: So the operation from what I saw, essentially when she 532 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 2: would go to Camille Kelly, the judge that was in 533 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 2: her pocket, and say, hey, these are things that would 534 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 2: make my life a lot easier as far as laws 535 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 2: are concerned, and then Judge Kelly would go to the 536 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 2: legislature and or Boss Crump probably both, and say, hey, 537 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 2: here at Family Court, these are some laws that are 538 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 2: really kind of making things unnecessarily difficult and hurting families. 539 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 2: Let's get these changed. So they would actually change laws 540 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 2: to help Georgia Tan steal and sell babies more efficiently. 541 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and this kind of just shows how 542 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: manipulative she was. There's actual like letterhead from Judge Kelly 543 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: written in her handwriting to the attorney Abe Waldauur, so 544 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: like this was the attorney working for Georgia Tan. Instead 545 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: of Georgia Tann going to him, she would manipulate go 546 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: around him to the judge to get her to write 547 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: this congestion to a Walldauer would then lobby and pressure 548 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: on her behalf, which was really on Tan's behalf. 549 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 2: So as like, I guess, kind of alien concept modern 550 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 2: adoption was at the time. Tennessee had a pretty good 551 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 2: law on its books that dated back to eighteen fifty two, 552 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 2: and there were requirements that were sensible and smart. If 553 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 2: you wanted to adopt a kid from Tennessee, first of all, 554 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 2: you had to be from Tennessee. The adoptive parents had 555 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 2: to be from Tennessee. 556 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 3: Not about that one, but fine. 557 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 2: Right right, But I'm just saying, if you look at 558 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 2: what Georgia tan was doing, this was Yeah, that was 559 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 2: not in step with that at all. Secondly, if you 560 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 2: were a birth mother, a judge needed to certify that 561 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 2: you were voluntarily giving your kid up. 562 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, right, still the case. 563 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, orphanages needed to investigate the adoptive parents. Great idea, 564 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 2: and you needed to follow up with the the kid 565 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 2: and make sure that the child was being treated well 566 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 2: in their new adoptive home. These were the eighteen fifty 567 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 2: two laws. And if you look at what Georgia Tann 568 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 2: was doing out in the open, just the stuff people 569 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 2: knew about, none of it checked any of those boxes. 570 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, and she, you know, because of that, she got 571 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,800 Speaker 1: a lot of these laws changed to suit her racket, 572 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 1: which is just unbelievable that this was going on. 573 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 2: Yeah. One of them that got me was you didn't 574 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 2: need a judge to certify any longer that the mom 575 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 2: was voluntary surrendering. A notary public could do it. And 576 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 2: so Georgia Tann would have one of her employees certify 577 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 2: that basically falsify these records. There was another thing that 578 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 2: was a really important outcome of all of this, and 579 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 2: that is that she lobbied for secrecy and adoption. Her 580 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 2: whole premise was that it saved unwed mothers the shame 581 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 2: and social stigma of being non and his unwed mothers 582 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 2: publicly having files open available to the public showing that 583 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,919 Speaker 2: they had had a child out of wedlock, and that 584 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 2: that that was in the in the family's best favor 585 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,800 Speaker 2: for these records to be sealed. That's still what people 586 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 2: say today, that there's like it in states where secrecy 587 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 2: is still a thing in adoption. It's to protect the 588 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 2: biological parents rights in case they don't want to be found, right, 589 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 2: that aside all of the the Yeah, in some states, 590 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 2: I think California still has really strict secrecy laws or 591 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 2: owned adoption. 592 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: Oh my god, that I thought that was just for 593 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: old adoption records. No, so that's like the current thing. 594 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,359 Speaker 2: No, no, no, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Starting in about 595 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,359 Speaker 2: the eighties that it opened up, adoption became much more open, 596 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:54,240 Speaker 2: but it didn't retroactively affect anybody who adoption took place 597 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:55,320 Speaker 2: before the eighties. 598 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, okay, so okay. 599 00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 2: So but those those laws are still in the books, 600 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,799 Speaker 2: so those people are still have their records sealed, and 601 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 2: that includes Georgia tans kids. But all that aside, that 602 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 2: whole quandary and argument about whether that's a legitimate way 603 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 2: to do adoption or not, that had nothing to do 604 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 2: with why she wanted to do it. She wanted to 605 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,399 Speaker 2: do it because once she got those records sealed, and 606 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,479 Speaker 2: she soon was able to do that. As a matter 607 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 2: of course, after that law was passed, there was no 608 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 2: finding the kid any longer. And like you legally could 609 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 2: not get your hands on any records that would lead 610 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 2: you to your biological kid. They were just. 611 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 1: Gone, yeah, well and not more importantly but more commonly, 612 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: probably that kid can't find their parents, Yes, their biological parents, 613 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:43,319 Speaker 1: that is. 614 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. And then even if you did, I think, get 615 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 2: your hands on the records, she's so frequently monkeyed with 616 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 2: the records and falsified them that they might not even 617 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 2: lead you to your birth parent to begin with. 618 00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:00,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, So we would love to tell you that there 619 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:07,399 Speaker 1: was an ending to this where Georgia Tan was made 620 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,720 Speaker 1: responsible for her crimes. Sadly that is not the case. 621 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier that Crump eventually had less sway over 622 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: the governor's office. That was in nineteen fifty when Governor 623 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:27,360 Speaker 1: Gordon Browning became governor, started getting these letters from people 624 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:32,439 Speaker 1: talking about Georgia tan being blackmailed, keep silent, things like that, 625 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,760 Speaker 1: so he launched Browning launched an investigation into the orphanage, 626 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 1: headed by Robert Taylor's special counsel. But here's the thing is, 627 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 1: Georgia Tann had a very aggressive uterine cancer was dying fast, 628 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,800 Speaker 1: and Browning held off on making all this public until 629 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 1: she died on September fifteenth, nineteen fifty, at the age 630 00:37:59,000 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: of fifty eight. 631 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, which is like, it really ticks you off about Browning, 632 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,360 Speaker 2: like why would you extend any modicum of courtesy to 633 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 2: Georgia Tann at all? But Browning's general motivation for this 634 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 2: wasn't to prosecute her. It was to embarrass Boss Crump 635 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,840 Speaker 2: and to erode some of his political clout because he 636 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,759 Speaker 2: was so powerful he could get governors elected, like he 637 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 2: was a really powerful mayor, and so this really helped 638 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:31,879 Speaker 2: embarrass him and he just became illegitimate in a lot 639 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:33,920 Speaker 2: of people's eyes when this came out that this was 640 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 2: happening under his watch, and how could he possibly have 641 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 2: not known about it? So that was one reason why 642 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 2: he held it back, because Boss Crump was still going 643 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 2: to be round. After Georgia Tnn died. Luckily, in my eyes, 644 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 2: a couple of reporters from different newspapers in Memphis got 645 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 2: a hold of the story and they broke it before 646 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 2: she died. 647 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, I mean just a couple of days 648 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,359 Speaker 1: before she died. So I like to think that there 649 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: was some great shame visited upon her. 650 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 3: Who knows. 651 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 1: I doubt it, because I think she felt justified the 652 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: whole time, because her whole deal was I'm taking these 653 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,399 Speaker 1: babies out of these out of these houses where these 654 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 1: undesirables shouldn't be having kids to begin with. 655 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and so what if I make some money, 656 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 2: I'm going to a lot of trouble. 657 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: I just looked at Boss Crump for the first time 658 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:22,840 Speaker 1: for some reason, I didn't look it up earlier. 659 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 3: Did you see him? 660 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 2: He looks more like Boss R. 661 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 1: Crump you would He looks like you would think he 662 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:30,400 Speaker 1: would look basically. 663 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 2: So that investigation that Robert Taylor headed up led to 664 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 2: a lawsuit from the State of Tennessee against Georgia's estate 665 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 2: Georgia Tansas State. And apparently so we said that she 666 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,719 Speaker 2: was in a lifelong relationship with her partner, Anne Atwood, 667 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,920 Speaker 2: who supposedly was a good person. She just happened to 668 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 2: love a monster. I guess, I don't know. 669 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 3: I don't know, but I don't know how to square 670 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:55,760 Speaker 3: that one her. 671 00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 2: I can't remember who who went to I think her 672 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 2: knee or something, or surviving niece went to bat firm. 673 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:03,920 Speaker 2: It's like, no, she was actually a really good person 674 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 2: at any rate, An Atwood. This is a rather ironic 675 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:12,480 Speaker 2: twist if you asked me. Georgia Tan adopted Anne at Wood, 676 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,399 Speaker 2: which was a fairly common technique among gay couples back 677 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 2: in the day to ensure that your partner would receive 678 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:25,760 Speaker 2: your estate. So Georgia Tan, the woman who would steal 679 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:30,799 Speaker 2: babies and sell them out for adoption popularist adoption in America, 680 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:36,320 Speaker 2: adopted her partner in her old age a couple of 681 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:37,319 Speaker 2: years before she died. 682 00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was a lawsuit that you mentioned. It 683 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,040 Speaker 1: wasn't about the abuse or the kidnapping, though, it was 684 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:48,319 Speaker 1: about basically the excess funds. Like the victims in that 685 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: case were parents who overpaid in their mind for kids 686 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,520 Speaker 1: because like I said, she was I think the adoption 687 00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 1: fee was like seven hundred dollars. She was charging up 688 00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,319 Speaker 1: to five grand. So that was what the Cibil case 689 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:06,080 Speaker 1: was about. She they sued the estate for five hundred 690 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 1: thousand dollars only got a little more than fifty grand 691 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 1: in the end. So you know, there was never any 692 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: justice for these families, basically no. 693 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:19,279 Speaker 2: And some people have actually found one another. There was 694 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,280 Speaker 2: a very famous episode of Unsolved Mysteries or a famous 695 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,800 Speaker 2: case that came out of Unsolved Mysteries in nineteen ninety 696 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,840 Speaker 2: where a woman named Almas Sipple was watching Unsolved Mysteries 697 00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 2: as you did in nineteen ninety, I can attest, and 698 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 2: on TV they flashed a picture of Georgia Tan They're 699 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 2: talking about this case, and Almas Sipple said later that 700 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 2: she just came out of her chair and recognized her 701 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,799 Speaker 2: immediately as the woman who had swindled her out of 702 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:48,919 Speaker 2: her baby. And from that, from watching that, they ended 703 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 2: up reuniting. She reunited with her birth daughter named Sandra. 704 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,279 Speaker 2: And then there's a few other people who've worked to 705 00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:00,400 Speaker 2: find their successfully find their biological family. And again Denny 706 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,920 Speaker 2: Glad has been really instrumental in trying to sue Tennessee 707 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,480 Speaker 2: into opening up these records, in particular for Georgia Tan's 708 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 2: victims so that they can find their biological families, and 709 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,719 Speaker 2: her organization is called Tennessee's Right to Know. 710 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,880 Speaker 1: Joan Crawford's daughters found their biological family. Oh yeah, yep, 711 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:24,120 Speaker 1: those two girls did. And hey, you made me laugh 712 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:24,799 Speaker 1: in that last bit. 713 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:26,400 Speaker 3: I got. You got one laugh out of me? 714 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 1: What in this episode when you said watching unsolved mysteries 715 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:32,720 Speaker 1: as you do in nineteen ninety I can attest. 716 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 2: You like that? 717 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,520 Speaker 3: Huh you got a chuckle. I didn't think I was 718 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:36,319 Speaker 3: gonna laugh at all. 719 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,799 Speaker 2: Okay, well then this would works. This episode's finally complete. 720 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: If you want to watch a movie, there's a TV 721 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,360 Speaker 1: movie from ninety three called Stolen Babies, A Little on 722 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,880 Speaker 1: the Nose starring Mary Tyler Moore. 723 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:48,760 Speaker 3: She wanted emmy. 724 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 1: I'm told it was the reviews I read, and you 725 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 1: know said she was pretty remarkable in that role. 726 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 2: I saw an ad for it. She looked pretty, she 727 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:57,440 Speaker 2: did despicable really well. 728 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,120 Speaker 3: Sure, Mary Tyler wor can do. That's it. 729 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,399 Speaker 2: She got range and Leah Thompson was the woman who 730 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,400 Speaker 2: opposed her. I'm not sure if she was based on 731 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:06,200 Speaker 2: anybody or not. 732 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,920 Speaker 1: Oh ninety three. Oh yeah, I guess that was. That's 733 00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:10,840 Speaker 1: right in her wheelhouse. 734 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,080 Speaker 2: And if you're like Stolen Babies, that's a great band name, 735 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,040 Speaker 2: well you're a little late to the party, because there 736 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:16,920 Speaker 2: actually is a band called Stolen Babies. 737 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:23,320 Speaker 1: Of course there is so actor and a movie developer, 738 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:27,080 Speaker 1: Octavia Spencer, who was wonderful option that book that we 739 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:27,720 Speaker 1: were talking about. 740 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:28,800 Speaker 3: Who was the author. 741 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,719 Speaker 2: Again, Barbara bezantce Raymond, and the book she wrote was 742 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:37,160 Speaker 2: Baby Thief Colon The Untold Story of Georgia tan Comma, 743 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 2: the Baby Seller who Corrupted Adoption. 744 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,040 Speaker 1: It's a long title, but I was kind of curious 745 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:47,360 Speaker 1: because Octavia Spencer, I wasn't surprised. It was just like, 746 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,000 Speaker 1: I wonder, you know, if she was adopted or has adopted, 747 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 1: like if there was just some some pull for this 748 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,600 Speaker 1: story for her personally, and that is not the case. 749 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:03,399 Speaker 1: But she did play an adoption caseworker in a movie 750 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 1: a few years ago. That movie which I didn't see, 751 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:10,440 Speaker 1: Instant Family with Rose Byrne and Macky Mock, So maybe 752 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,000 Speaker 1: just being in that role kind of I know that 753 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:17,520 Speaker 1: she studied and interviewed a lot of adoption caseworkers, so 754 00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:19,960 Speaker 1: that may have just sort of piqued your interest. Yeah. 755 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,360 Speaker 2: Maybe so. Well, if you want to know more about 756 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,320 Speaker 2: Georgia Tan and you can stomach it, there's some stuff 757 00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,439 Speaker 2: out there to read on the internet, but you will 758 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,080 Speaker 2: probably keep running into Barbara Raymond's book, so you might 759 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:32,759 Speaker 2: as well just read that and get it over with. 760 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,759 Speaker 2: And since I said that, it's time for listener. 761 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:41,400 Speaker 1: Mail another Peanuts email. There's gonna be three total because 762 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,480 Speaker 1: we got a lot of great emails about the Peanuts seconds, 763 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,320 Speaker 1: but the best one is coming soon. This one's pretty 764 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:54,399 Speaker 1: good because it's an actual correction on something I said. Josh, Hey, guys, 765 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:56,440 Speaker 1: Peanuts episode is awesome. Grew up with a series of 766 00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 1: Peanuts and they were pretty much the only thing I 767 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:00,239 Speaker 1: read as a child. I'm so glad you were to 768 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:04,120 Speaker 1: me of so many little details. The only thing you 769 00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,399 Speaker 1: guys said that was wrong, and lish here didn't call 770 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,040 Speaker 1: me out, but I remember saying this was it. Sally 771 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,880 Speaker 1: was the one talking about her naturally curly hair. I 772 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:17,759 Speaker 1: totally got that wrong. That was Freda. Oh really, yeah, 773 00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,000 Speaker 1: Freda had the red curly hair. And she's always going 774 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,840 Speaker 1: my naturally curly hair because I think I think she 775 00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:24,960 Speaker 1: was kind of crushing on Charlie Brown, which obviously wouldn't 776 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:26,359 Speaker 1: have been Sally. So I just got that all wrong. 777 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:27,200 Speaker 2: I see, I gotcha. 778 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 3: Anyway, you guys are great. 779 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,600 Speaker 1: I hope you do occasionally do podcasts into your nineties 780 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:38,120 Speaker 1: at least. Thank you for your research, dedication and great 781 00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,200 Speaker 1: sense of humor. Plus, I was born in nineteen seventy one, 782 00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,840 Speaker 1: so Chuck and I often sync up to your memories. 783 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,239 Speaker 3: And that is from Lish. 784 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,120 Speaker 2: Lish with the brain meld on. Chuck, how does that feel? 785 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:51,000 Speaker 3: Feels great? 786 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 2: Well, thanks a lot, Lish, that was a great Peanuts email. 787 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,360 Speaker 2: I can't imagine what the third in the trifect is 788 00:45:58,360 --> 00:45:59,879 Speaker 2: going to be. If it's even better than. 789 00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 3: That, I can't imagine. I think you know, but unless 790 00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:04,160 Speaker 3: you didn't see. 791 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:05,640 Speaker 2: It, I don't know if I did or not. I'm 792 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:07,280 Speaker 2: gonna have to go sort through them. 793 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:08,960 Speaker 3: I'll just say the wall. 794 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:10,920 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, okay, I do know the one. 795 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:12,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, you gotta good one. 796 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:14,799 Speaker 2: If you want to be like listen get in touch 797 00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:16,920 Speaker 2: with us. You can send us an email too. Send 798 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,920 Speaker 2: it off to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot. 799 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:25,520 Speaker 1: Com Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. 800 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,200 Speaker 3: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 801 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,320 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.