1
00:00:15,130 --> 00:00:24,090
Speaker 1: Pushkin. President's priorities have moved forward, including construction work on

2
00:00:24,210 --> 00:00:28,610
Speaker 1: new barriers that are border with Mexico in a world

3
00:00:28,650 --> 00:00:32,410
Speaker 1: gone haywire, and sometimes art is the only thing that

4
00:00:32,450 --> 00:00:35,970
Speaker 1: can make sense of it all. Construction has not slowed

5
00:00:36,210 --> 00:00:40,570
Speaker 1: during the coronavirus pandemic. This is the Chronicles of Now,

6
00:00:40,810 --> 00:00:44,130
Speaker 1: where we ask writers to dream up short stories inspired

7
00:00:44,170 --> 00:00:48,090
Speaker 1: by the news. I'm Ashley Ford. Since the end of February,

8
00:00:48,250 --> 00:00:52,370
Speaker 1: some fifty miles of barriers has been built when most

9
00:00:52,370 --> 00:00:55,290
Speaker 1: of the country is shut down for the pandemic. Work

10
00:00:55,330 --> 00:01:00,250
Speaker 1: when the border barrier actually accelerated. In June, Trump visited

11
00:01:00,250 --> 00:01:03,410
Speaker 1: a section of the wall in Yuma, Arizona. Is the

12
00:01:03,490 --> 00:01:07,050
Speaker 1: most powerful and comprehensive border wall structure anywhere in the world.

13
00:01:07,130 --> 00:01:11,210
Speaker 1: It's got technology that but he would even believe. Trump

14
00:01:11,250 --> 00:01:14,170
Speaker 1: has promised more than five hundred miles of border wall

15
00:01:14,210 --> 00:01:16,930
Speaker 1: by early next year, but the reality only about the

16
00:01:16,930 --> 00:01:20,410
Speaker 1: three miles of new barrier where none previously existed have

17
00:01:20,530 --> 00:01:25,050
Speaker 1: been built by the Trump administration so far. The things

18
00:01:25,090 --> 00:01:28,410
Speaker 1: that Trump was imagining about what the wall should look

19
00:01:28,450 --> 00:01:31,530
Speaker 1: like and what features it should have were just so bad,

20
00:01:31,570 --> 00:01:35,610
Speaker 1: shit crazy. That's John Ray, the author of five novels,

21
00:01:35,730 --> 00:01:39,770
Speaker 1: and he's talking about news reports of Trump's most outlandish

22
00:01:39,850 --> 00:01:42,930
Speaker 1: ideas for the wall. It was kind of like he

23
00:01:43,050 --> 00:01:45,730
Speaker 1: was already in the realm of science fiction before the

24
00:01:45,810 --> 00:01:49,610
Speaker 1: first dollar was spent on this project. Whatever we think

25
00:01:49,650 --> 00:01:52,930
Speaker 1: of Trump's wall, it's going to be around for years

26
00:01:53,050 --> 00:01:56,610
Speaker 1: to come. If Trump wins the election, it may even

27
00:01:56,650 --> 00:02:00,810
Speaker 1: get fully built. For this story, John Ray tries to

28
00:02:00,850 --> 00:02:03,890
Speaker 1: answer the question what will the wall be like in

29
00:02:04,010 --> 00:02:29,010
Speaker 1: thirty or forty years? The barrier doesn't think in terms

30
00:02:29,010 --> 00:02:33,970
Speaker 1: of years, not in any conventional sense, but sufficient weather

31
00:02:34,050 --> 00:02:37,810
Speaker 1: systems have traveled its length, doing their utmost to compromise

32
00:02:37,890 --> 00:02:42,810
Speaker 1: its integrity that the barrier is conscious on a structural

33
00:02:42,970 --> 00:02:49,570
Speaker 1: elemental level of having passed its prime. Evidence abounds the

34
00:02:49,690 --> 00:02:53,970
Speaker 1: barrier steel and zinc alloy ballards, once so gracefully crenelated

35
00:02:54,370 --> 00:02:58,690
Speaker 1: so subtly iridescent in the blazing midday sun, are pock

36
00:02:58,850 --> 00:03:05,490
Speaker 1: marked and rust streaked and crumpled. Its angled concrete fundament,

37
00:03:05,970 --> 00:03:10,130
Speaker 1: made due to budgetary and environmental concerns from locally quarried

38
00:03:10,130 --> 00:03:14,770
Speaker 1: trap rock, is fractured and eroded, and its six inch

39
00:03:14,850 --> 00:03:19,890
Speaker 1: electrified spikes have lost both their grace and their alternating current,

40
00:03:20,770 --> 00:03:31,530
Speaker 1: to say nothing of their effectiveness at puncturing human flesh. Migrants,

41
00:03:32,090 --> 00:03:38,970
Speaker 1: military personnel, traders, smugglers, small children, and beasts transgress the

42
00:03:39,010 --> 00:03:46,890
Speaker 1: barrier with impunity at certain key junctures. Margallis, Sonoyta, virtually

43
00:03:46,890 --> 00:03:50,330
Speaker 1: the entire state of Texas, there is no longer any

44
00:03:50,410 --> 00:04:01,450
Speaker 1: barrier to speak of. One year ago, a bespectacled young man,

45
00:04:01,850 --> 00:04:05,850
Speaker 1: apparently some kind of student, approached the barrier without the

46
00:04:05,930 --> 00:04:09,810
Speaker 1: least sign of fear or trepidation, just outside develop Paso

47
00:04:10,330 --> 00:04:14,010
Speaker 1: and edge the following verses into its rust encrusted pediment

48
00:04:14,290 --> 00:04:21,370
Speaker 1: with a Swiss army knife. My name is Ozamandius, King

49
00:04:21,570 --> 00:04:25,970
Speaker 1: of Kings. Look on my works, e mighty and despair.

50
00:04:29,530 --> 00:04:33,130
Speaker 1: That was a low point, no question about it, a

51
00:04:33,250 --> 00:04:36,770
Speaker 1: fresh humiliation to add to all the others. But in

52
00:04:36,810 --> 00:04:40,970
Speaker 1: spite of such cruelties, in spite of humanity's glaringly obvious

53
00:04:41,010 --> 00:04:45,570
Speaker 1: indifference to its plight, the barrier refuses to give in

54
00:04:45,690 --> 00:04:50,370
Speaker 1: to despair. When things are at their worst, when morale

55
00:04:50,690 --> 00:04:54,970
Speaker 1: is at its lowest, it has only to consider the trench.

56
00:04:58,570 --> 00:05:01,930
Speaker 1: The trench, by any standard, is a thing of savage beauty.

57
00:05:02,690 --> 00:05:06,090
Speaker 1: The years have wrought changes upon it as well, perhaps

58
00:05:06,090 --> 00:05:08,490
Speaker 1: to a greater degree than on any of the barrier's

59
00:05:08,490 --> 00:05:13,570
Speaker 1: other feature. But these changes have themselves been things of wonder,

60
00:05:17,010 --> 00:05:20,170
Speaker 1: contrary to what the naysayers and the skeptics not to

61
00:05:20,210 --> 00:05:23,490
Speaker 1: mention the Army Corps of Engineers argued when the trench

62
00:05:23,610 --> 00:05:27,650
Speaker 1: was first proposed, It has not lost its water to evaporation,

63
00:05:28,530 --> 00:05:31,610
Speaker 1: nor has its channel become clogged with falling rock or

64
00:05:31,730 --> 00:05:36,050
Speaker 1: displaced earth. Not even the most passionate of the pro

65
00:05:36,170 --> 00:05:40,730
Speaker 1: barrier advocates have thus far managed to explain this, in

66
00:05:40,850 --> 00:05:46,210
Speaker 1: defiance of all reason of all since the trench indoors,

67
00:05:47,930 --> 00:05:52,170
Speaker 1: and that is by no means all of the seven

68
00:05:52,250 --> 00:05:57,370
Speaker 1: hundred sixty breeding pairs of American alligators imported at considerable

69
00:05:57,410 --> 00:06:02,130
Speaker 1: public expense from Lake Okeechobee in twenty twenty seven, hundred

70
00:06:02,210 --> 00:06:05,730
Speaker 1: fifty eight died of hunger within the first month. The

71
00:06:05,850 --> 00:06:09,850
Speaker 1: remaining two pairs, however, have gone on to populate an

72
00:06:09,890 --> 00:06:15,610
Speaker 1: astonishingly extensive expanse of the brackish, oily, oxygen starred canal

73
00:06:15,730 --> 00:06:21,690
Speaker 1: system with their scaly progeny. Though contact with the human population,

74
00:06:21,770 --> 00:06:25,330
Speaker 1: as admittedly dwindled over the years, dwindled in fact to

75
00:06:25,410 --> 00:06:28,770
Speaker 1: the point that the barrier sometimes questions its own raison dtre.

76
00:06:29,490 --> 00:06:32,570
Speaker 1: The alligators have more than made up for the absence

77
00:06:32,610 --> 00:06:38,050
Speaker 1: of people. The alligators have given the barrier an altogether

78
00:06:38,170 --> 00:06:45,410
Speaker 1: more beautiful, more reasonable, or justifiable purpose. In a word,

79
00:06:46,210 --> 00:06:52,290
Speaker 1: they give the barrier a reason to exist. If only

80
00:06:52,330 --> 00:07:01,490
Speaker 1: the same thing could be said about the snakes. That

81
00:07:01,570 --> 00:07:08,690
Speaker 1: was status report by John Ray. The narrator was Eduardo Ballerini. Hi. John, Actually,

82
00:07:08,730 --> 00:07:13,770
Speaker 1: I'm good. So when you read the news late last

83
00:07:13,810 --> 00:07:17,970
Speaker 1: year that Trump had privately talked about fortifying a border

84
00:07:18,130 --> 00:07:22,730
Speaker 1: with a water filled trench stocked with snakes or alligators,

85
00:07:23,450 --> 00:07:27,290
Speaker 1: which prompted AIDS to seek a cost estimate, where did

86
00:07:27,370 --> 00:07:30,450
Speaker 1: your mind go and know that that was what was

87
00:07:30,490 --> 00:07:34,410
Speaker 1: happening in your reality? You know, the frustrating thing a

88
00:07:34,410 --> 00:07:36,610
Speaker 1: lot of the times with fiction, as you think, oh

89
00:07:36,650 --> 00:07:39,730
Speaker 1: my god, this is such an amazing story, but you

90
00:07:39,770 --> 00:07:41,850
Speaker 1: have that reaction that a lot of fiction writers have,

91
00:07:41,930 --> 00:07:44,970
Speaker 1: which is like, I could never put that in a novel.

92
00:07:45,010 --> 00:07:46,970
Speaker 1: I could never put that in a story because everybody

93
00:07:47,010 --> 00:07:49,970
Speaker 1: would be like, come on, please, you know, But in

94
00:07:49,970 --> 00:07:52,530
Speaker 1: this case, it's like you can write fiction that actually

95
00:07:52,530 --> 00:07:56,570
Speaker 1: has that cool aspect of nonfiction, which is no stupid

96
00:07:56,690 --> 00:08:00,250
Speaker 1: and crazy as this seems. Check the article in the Times.

97
00:08:00,370 --> 00:08:02,210
Speaker 1: You know, so, all I had to do is basically

98
00:08:03,490 --> 00:08:07,690
Speaker 1: take the given facts of the story and just extended

99
00:08:07,690 --> 00:08:11,370
Speaker 1: by another thirty six years or however many years that

100
00:08:11,530 --> 00:08:16,130
Speaker 1: was the story. Who So, construction on the real border

101
00:08:16,210 --> 00:08:20,530
Speaker 1: barrier has continued even during the pandemic. Yeah, what do

102
00:08:20,610 --> 00:08:27,010
Speaker 1: you think the wall means to Trump? But also to America? Basically,

103
00:08:27,130 --> 00:08:31,130
Speaker 1: for Trump after he makes a very public declaration, the

104
00:08:31,210 --> 00:08:34,130
Speaker 1: vast majority of these declarations, he's never called out on

105
00:08:34,450 --> 00:08:37,610
Speaker 1: the wall though, was so central to his campaign and

106
00:08:37,730 --> 00:08:40,050
Speaker 1: was kind of like one of his first big symbols.

107
00:08:40,090 --> 00:08:42,970
Speaker 1: He can't just totally bail on it. And it's an

108
00:08:43,010 --> 00:08:46,250
Speaker 1: ongoing project that, of course, in theory, would take many,

109
00:08:46,290 --> 00:08:49,090
Speaker 1: many years to complete. So I think it's become a

110
00:08:49,170 --> 00:08:52,730
Speaker 1: kind of private nightmare for him. It was never financially feasible.

111
00:08:52,770 --> 00:08:55,530
Speaker 1: It was certainly never going to actually do what it

112
00:08:55,610 --> 00:08:58,490
Speaker 1: was supposed to do. You've lived most of your life

113
00:08:58,530 --> 00:09:01,450
Speaker 1: in the US, but now you're chatting from Mexico City.

114
00:09:01,570 --> 00:09:03,490
Speaker 1: That's right where you've been living on and off for

115
00:09:03,530 --> 00:09:06,770
Speaker 1: the past couple of years. How has living on the

116
00:09:06,810 --> 00:09:10,130
Speaker 1: other side of the border changed your view of the wall.

117
00:09:10,850 --> 00:09:14,370
Speaker 1: No one talks about the wall in Mexico. No one

118
00:09:14,450 --> 00:09:18,730
Speaker 1: takes it seriously. It's just not one of the topics

119
00:09:18,730 --> 00:09:22,210
Speaker 1: that people debate very fiercely, even when they're debating US

120
00:09:22,330 --> 00:09:25,850
Speaker 1: Mexican relations. What is very much on the radar, though,

121
00:09:26,090 --> 00:09:30,410
Speaker 1: is the relationship between the Mexican president, the current Mexican government,

122
00:09:30,490 --> 00:09:35,450
Speaker 1: and Trump. And the enormous resources that Trump is insisting

123
00:09:35,530 --> 00:09:40,050
Speaker 1: on the Mexican government diverting towards the border to keep

124
00:09:40,170 --> 00:09:44,090
Speaker 1: migrants from crossing. The wall is kind of completely redundant.

125
00:09:44,090 --> 00:09:48,050
Speaker 1: It's just completely beside the point. But in many other ways,

126
00:09:48,250 --> 00:09:52,370
Speaker 1: Trump really is successfully bullying the Mexican government into doing

127
00:09:52,410 --> 00:09:56,370
Speaker 1: his bidding as far as immigration is concerned. It's a bummer.

128
00:09:57,010 --> 00:10:00,890
Speaker 1: Do the people who you speak to their think he'll

129
00:10:00,890 --> 00:10:05,890
Speaker 1: be reelected. I think the people that I've spoken to

130
00:10:06,170 --> 00:10:14,250
Speaker 1: here sadly have less optimism about the coming election than

131
00:10:14,290 --> 00:10:17,650
Speaker 1: most Americans I've spoken to, and I would say less

132
00:10:17,650 --> 00:10:22,490
Speaker 1: optimism than I do. They've been through so many disappointments

133
00:10:22,610 --> 00:10:26,490
Speaker 1: that they really just don't expect very much of us. Ashley.

134
00:10:26,770 --> 00:10:33,450
Speaker 1: You know, the occasional glimmer of rational thought and maybe

135
00:10:33,530 --> 00:10:36,170
Speaker 1: voting in our best interests. I mean, that's enough to

136
00:10:36,210 --> 00:10:40,330
Speaker 1: surprise them. They would be delighted if Trump got voted out.

137
00:10:41,010 --> 00:10:43,770
Speaker 1: But what's interesting also is that they don't necessarily see

138
00:10:43,770 --> 00:10:46,330
Speaker 1: Trumps as the sum total of the problem. I mean,

139
00:10:46,690 --> 00:10:51,170
Speaker 1: there's been bias against Mexico and misinformation about immigration since

140
00:10:51,330 --> 00:10:54,370
Speaker 1: well before Trump got a lot. Absolutely, the sad truth

141
00:10:54,450 --> 00:10:57,250
Speaker 1: is that Obama is pretty harsh with his deportations as well,

142
00:10:57,290 --> 00:11:00,930
Speaker 1: and phil Obama never mind about you know, the Bush administration.

143
00:11:01,050 --> 00:11:04,530
Speaker 1: So they would be delighted to see Trump go, but

144
00:11:04,810 --> 00:11:08,290
Speaker 1: they wouldn't expect everything to just be be lovely and

145
00:11:08,530 --> 00:11:13,170
Speaker 1: equitable overnight, and neither should we know, John Ray, thank

146
00:11:13,210 --> 00:11:16,490
Speaker 1: you so much for coming on Chronicles of Now, Ashley.

147
00:11:16,490 --> 00:11:21,850
Speaker 1: It was a delight thanks for having me. You can

148
00:11:21,930 --> 00:11:25,130
Speaker 1: read my full interview with John Ray on our website

149
00:11:25,250 --> 00:11:28,850
Speaker 1: Chronicles dot Fm, where you can also read the story

150
00:11:28,930 --> 00:11:33,050
Speaker 1: you just heard and other short fiction torn from today's headlines.

151
00:11:34,050 --> 00:11:38,370
Speaker 1: Our sound designer and composer is Bart Warshaw, our producer

152
00:11:38,490 --> 00:11:42,450
Speaker 1: is Curtis Fox, and our associate producer is Emily Rostick.

153
00:11:43,130 --> 00:11:46,850
Speaker 1: Tyler Cabot is the executive producer and founder of Chronicles

154
00:11:46,850 --> 00:11:52,050
Speaker 1: of Now. For Pushkin Industries. Our executive producer is Letal Malad.

155
00:11:52,850 --> 00:11:57,650
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Jacob Weisberg, Carly Migliori, Heather Fame, and

156
00:11:57,890 --> 00:12:02,170
Speaker 1: Eric Sandler for the Chronicles of Now podcast. I'm Ashley Ford.

157
00:12:02,610 --> 00:12:10,250
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. So we need to get this out

158
00:12:10,290 --> 00:12:12,890
Speaker 1: of the way. Several years ago, I spent a few

159
00:12:12,890 --> 00:12:16,290
Speaker 1: weeks living in your basement as I was covering from

160
00:12:16,290 --> 00:12:20,210
Speaker 1: a torn acl wait wait wait, wait, wait, stop, turn

161
00:12:20,210 --> 00:12:24,930
Speaker 1: off the mic. I remember that I don't think I

162
00:12:25,010 --> 00:12:27,490
Speaker 1: was home. I wasn't. I wasn't at my house at

163
00:12:27,490 --> 00:12:31,570
Speaker 1: the time, but I remember, I remember this, this scenario