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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Away And I'm John Green

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Speaker 1: and I'm Lenielle Aler Gone. How's it going, John, It's

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Speaker 1: going great. I'm really excited for this podcast. So we're

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Speaker 1: going to be talking about football on this podcast. But

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Speaker 1: I think one thing we need to establish right at

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Speaker 1: the outset, Daniel, is that you and I have been

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Speaker 1: friends for thirty years.

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Speaker 2: It feels like like just went by like that.

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Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say, it feels like

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Speaker 1: much longer.

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Speaker 2: We've been at this talking, sharing ideas, sharing thoughts, sharing

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Speaker 2: observations about soccer in life since approximately nineteen ninety Is

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Speaker 2: that right?

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Speaker 1: Nineteen ninety two, I would say, But in the it

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Speaker 1: was in the early nineties when we still had to

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Speaker 1: smuggle in VHS tapes to watch football games. That was

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Speaker 1: the only way to do it was to go to

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Speaker 1: the TV room at our little boarding school and watch

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Speaker 1: live from fourteen years ago, videotapes of World Cup games past.

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Speaker 2: I remember that. I remember my soccer coach, coach Barrett,

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Speaker 2: gave out after practice one day when I was around

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Speaker 2: ten or twelve. He had a duffel bag of VHS

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Speaker 2: tapes of European games and he made us watch them.

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Speaker 2: As homework, so we would all stop following the ball

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Speaker 2: around wherever it went, which is which was the height

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Speaker 2: of American soccer tactics in the nineteen eighties Deep South.

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Speaker 1: To be fair, that is still an important part of

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Speaker 1: youth soccer. I never really got past the follow the

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Speaker 1: ball around. My coach would always try to point out

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Speaker 1: to me that the hypot news of the triangle is

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Speaker 1: actually better than if you run sideways and then down

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Speaker 1: when you're defending, and I never quite got that. I

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Speaker 1: never quite was able to follow along with that. I

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Speaker 1: was just drawn like a magnet towards the ball.

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Speaker 2: There's still time done. So we are kicking off our

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Speaker 2: brand show the Away End, as you mentioned, and I'm

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Speaker 2: wondering if you could tell us a little bit about

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Speaker 2: what you have in mind for the show. Well.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be a show that helps people understand

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Speaker 1: the World Old Cup and football in general, and why

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Speaker 1: people are so passionate about it. Why, as the old

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Speaker 1: saying goes, of all the unimportant things, football is the

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Speaker 1: most important. But I also want to use it as

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Speaker 1: an excuse to talk to you, someone who's probably the

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Speaker 1: smartest person I've ever known, excepting of course, our producer

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Speaker 1: Sean Titne, who's also been a friend of ours since

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Speaker 1: high school. Talk with two of the smartest people I've

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Speaker 1: ever known about this game that we all love so much.

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Speaker 2: Does Sean love this game?

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Speaker 1: That's a really good point, Daniel. In fact, Sean, can

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Speaker 1: you come on just for a minute here. I know

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Speaker 1: that you don't like being in front of the camera,

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Speaker 1: but hello Sean.

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Speaker 3: Hello John, Hello Daniel.

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Speaker 2: Hi Sean, could you explain the offside rule?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Just tell us all the side works. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Offsides is when the striker or the person on offense

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Speaker 3: gets ahead of the defenders and doesn't have another person

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Speaker 3: on his team there or wait, he can't cost there's

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Speaker 3: a line that he cannot cross. Yeah, and if he

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Speaker 3: crosses that line then that's going to be an off side.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. You've you certainly nailed the hockey off side rules.

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Speaker 2: Three lines, Sean.

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Speaker 1: I was super close to almost being mildly, but in

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Speaker 1: the first half of your comment I was so impressed.

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Speaker 1: It really petered out halfway through. Ye, just on the

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Speaker 1: terrible downward spiral. After that, we appreciate being here, even

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Speaker 1: though football isn't your first or greatest love. By the

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Speaker 1: end of this podcast, our aim will be to get

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Speaker 1: you there.

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Speaker 3: Episode two, I'm going to give you, guys, the best

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Speaker 3: description of off sides that you've ever heard.

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Speaker 2: I think it could be a recurring segment. I will

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Speaker 2: bring you on to be a recurring segment. As Sean

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Speaker 2: is forced to watch some soccer games, does he ever

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Speaker 2: click with all sides or just any any of the

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Speaker 2: of the arcane rules or maybe we can we can

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Speaker 2: use anyway we.

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Speaker 1: Can figure this. This is going to be a great bit.

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Speaker 2: It's really gold gold already. But can I build off

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Speaker 2: your description of the show?

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Speaker 1: Don Yeah? Please?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So for me, the away end is all the

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Speaker 2: things that you mentioned. The World Cup is one of

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Speaker 2: those events that I've used to sort of mark time

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Speaker 2: in my life because it's it's four years. Is you

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Speaker 2: know how long high school is, or how long colleges,

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Speaker 2: how long a relationship might be, you know how long

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Speaker 2: you lived in a place and then moved And each

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Speaker 2: World Cup has sort of been a marker for me,

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Speaker 2: and I think that there's no better way to sort

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Speaker 2: of commemorate this particular marker now that I'm in like

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Speaker 2: late middle aged I suppose, or middle age whatever. This

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Speaker 2: is to sort of look back at the history of

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Speaker 2: the game, the history of my relationship with the game,

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Speaker 2: and no one better to do it with than you,

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Speaker 2: you know, a close friend who also has shares the

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Speaker 2: same passion. So that idea that like, I was just

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Speaker 2: looking back through some photos and I have a photo

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Speaker 2: from the big party that we threw or that I

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Speaker 2: was at with friends in Oakland in twenty ten, And

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Speaker 2: I have two photos that I'll share with you at

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Speaker 2: some point. We didn't even put them up on the

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Speaker 2: screen since this is going to be a video thing.

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Speaker 2: One taken moments before the Enesta scored is the winning

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Speaker 2: goal in the World Cup final, and one taken moments after.

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Speaker 2: And I'm sitting next to my wife Carolina, who was

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Speaker 2: my girlfriend at the time, and a bunch of friends,

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Speaker 2: many of whom I haven't seen in you know, years

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Speaker 2: since I left the Bay Area, but people that I

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Speaker 2: still am in touch with in some cases, people that

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Speaker 2: I really care about. And I just think back to

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Speaker 2: all those places that I've been and shared these really

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Speaker 2: special communal moments that have been built around soccer and

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Speaker 2: built around specifically the World Cup.

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Speaker 1: So for me, that exact same day I was at

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Speaker 1: the first ever VidCon this conference my brother organized around

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Speaker 1: online video, and I was in a big room of

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Speaker 1: probably five hundred people watching the World Cup final together,

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Speaker 1: perhaps a third of whom were Spanish or for Spain,

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Speaker 1: a third of whom were Dutch or for the Netherlands,

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Speaker 1: and a third of whom were Neutrals. And again, it's

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Speaker 1: that feeling that you just described of a number of

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Speaker 1: people who I haven't seen in a long time, but

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Speaker 1: whose love for me and my love for them still

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Speaker 1: kind of holds me together and still carries me through.

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Speaker 1: And I feel the same way about the World Cup.

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Speaker 1: I can tell you where I was in each final,

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Speaker 1: but I can also tell you about specific memories I

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Speaker 1: have of two thousand and two when I was really

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Speaker 1: lonely after a big breakup, and I was living alone

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Speaker 1: in a furnished apartment that my parents had helped set

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Speaker 1: me up with because I was so low functioning, And

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Speaker 1: I remember waking up at two am to watch the

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Speaker 1: games and feeling so comforted and so unalone in those moments.

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Speaker 1: I remember twenty eighteen, I was stuck in the in

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Speaker 1: the Ozarks. So you ever been to the Ozarks? I

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Speaker 1: haven't yet, Yeah, but I was stuck there and I

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Speaker 1: was watching. I watched all the games with my kids

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Speaker 1: crawling all over me, and I remember the first time,

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Speaker 1: you know, my kids were old enough to really enjoy

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Speaker 1: the World Cup. It's just for me, it's the same thing.

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Speaker 1: It is the marker of my life. It is the

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Speaker 1: way that I count time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I wanted to say a little bit about

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Speaker 2: the name the away ends. Yeah, and I think I

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Speaker 2: have an explanation. The one has to do with the

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Speaker 2: shirt that I'm wearing. And I don't know if you

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Speaker 2: can see this, but I'm wearing the peruven national team shirt.

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Speaker 2: Because Peru's not in the World Cup. I will always

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Speaker 2: be with the away fans basically. But also there's something

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Speaker 2: that I really admire about away fans, you know, the

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Speaker 2: dedication that they have, the you know, as the United States, Mexico,

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Speaker 2: and Canada are going to be hosting the fans of

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Speaker 2: forty eight nations and hangers on from dozens of other

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Speaker 2: countries and hundreds of other places. You know, in some ways,

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Speaker 2: the World Cup is always about the away fan, you know.

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Speaker 2: It's always people who travel from you know, across an

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Speaker 2: ocean around the world to support their team. It's about

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Speaker 2: the immigrants in the United States who are going to

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Speaker 2: be supporting the teams from the countries they hail from.

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Speaker 2: And I know, you know for a fact how important

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Speaker 2: that is for many people to be able to connect

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Speaker 2: with their countries of origin. I lived in New York

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Speaker 2: for a long time. I mean, I theoretically still live

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Speaker 2: in New York, even though I'm not there right now,

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Speaker 2: and we used to go to watch the New York

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Speaker 2: Red Bulls, who were a totally mediocre, average team of

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Speaker 2: barely competent players. Even that is generous, and I loved

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Speaker 2: going to the games super fun, in part because I

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Speaker 2: could always sort of squint and think, if I only

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Speaker 2: worked a little harder, I could probably handle this level

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Speaker 2: of sport. I wouldn't be out of place on this team.

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Speaker 2: But what I'm getting at is that the stadium is beautiful.

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Speaker 2: It's a just a short train ride right rights out

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Speaker 2: of the city in Harrison, New Jersey, and never full

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Speaker 2: for a New York Red Bulls game. But the one

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Speaker 2: time I saw it full was at a warm up

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Speaker 2: game for the peruven national team who were playing I

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Speaker 2: believe Denmark, but it could have been some other Scandinavian country.

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Speaker 2: Twenty eight thousand Peruvians were there and there was like

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Speaker 2: one away fan. They showed them on screen. But what

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Speaker 2: I remember that I loved about it was that I

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Speaker 2: got off the train in Harrison and it was like

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Speaker 2: being in Lima. It was like being in Peru. To

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Speaker 2: the point that when I was with my son and

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Speaker 2: I bought him a proven jersey so he could wear,

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Speaker 2: the guy gave me the price in proving money. I

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Speaker 2: was like, how much is it. He's like bante Solez,

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Speaker 2: like twenty sols, you know, and I knew he meant dollars,

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Speaker 2: but he was just we were just so surrounded and

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Speaker 2: in the place, you know that he was just like

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Speaker 2: you me, like, you know, let me, let me do

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Speaker 2: the currency converter for you so that we're all in

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Speaker 2: the same page. And what I'm getting to is really

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Speaker 2: this idea of the World Cup two that is very

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Speaker 2: much about bringing people together from all over the world,

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Speaker 2: and in a sense, we all get to be the

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Speaker 2: away end always because we get to bring that passion

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Speaker 2: to it and admire the people who actually did travel

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Speaker 2: thousands of miles to support their team.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's nothing I love more than going to an

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Speaker 1: away game. I took my daughter to an AFC Wimbledon

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Speaker 1: away game, the third tier English soccer team I sponsor

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Speaker 1: and support, and at the end of the game, I said, Alice,

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Speaker 1: did you enjoy it? And she said, it was a

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Speaker 1: lot of drunk adults. And I think that is part

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Speaker 1: of what I love about it, is that it is

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Speaker 1: a lot of drunk adults. There's so much passion in

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Speaker 1: the away end. You know, even though the home fans

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Speaker 1: always outnumber the away fans, the away fans often sing louder.

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Speaker 1: And that's part of what I find so magical about football.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. Can I tell you the sort of my first

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Speaker 2: World Cup game that I saw alive?

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Speaker 1: You tell me the story of your first World Cup game,

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Speaker 1: and then I'll tell you the story of your first

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Speaker 1: World Cup game that you saw live.

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Speaker 2: Because there's a bit of a discrepancy controversy here, but

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Speaker 2: it was nine twenty four. It was on that we

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Speaker 2: agree that we agree, Yes, Yes, I was in La.

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Speaker 2: I flew to La with my dad because we had

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Speaker 2: an uncle who lived in La and we went to

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Speaker 2: the games at the Rose Bowl, I believe, and the

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Speaker 2: opening game at the Rose Bowl was USA Columbia. Colombia incidentally,

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Speaker 2: where I'm currently living.

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Speaker 1: Oh, and we should mention that you're Peruvian for the

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Speaker 1: context of understanding all of the lovely things that you

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Speaker 1: said about being with other Peruvians. I think that was yeah,

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Speaker 1: clear with the jersey I'm wearing. But yes, yes, I'm Peruvian.

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Speaker 1: I was born in Lima.

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Speaker 2: I was raised in Alabama, where John did his high

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Speaker 2: school and that's where we met. But yeah, I'm Peruvin

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Speaker 2: and my household was always kind of like little Prugan

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Speaker 2: bubble in the middle of Alabama. Now, I went to

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Speaker 2: see this game with my uncle and my dad, and

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Speaker 2: two things I remember out the game. First of all,

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Speaker 2: that it was packed. It was mostly Latino and it

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Speaker 2: was the first game at the Rose Bowl. So the

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Speaker 2: Governor Pete Wilson of California came out to inaugurate the games.

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Speaker 2: And it was the time when they were proposing this

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Speaker 2: very racist anti immigrant law called Prop Point eighty seven.

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Speaker 2: And you know, when they announced him, they're like, you know,

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Speaker 2: Governor Pete Wilson, everyone he got to say one word.

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Speaker 2: He was like, you know, welcome, and then he was

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Speaker 2: booed and whistled for the entirety of his speech, like

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Speaker 2: I mean, And in the section that I was in,

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Speaker 2: which was all Latino. I could not hear a word

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Speaker 2: that he said. The whole stadium was like really intense,

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Speaker 2: and I remember asking my uncle who this guy was,

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Speaker 2: so we didn't live in California, didn't know anyth about him,

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Speaker 2: and they was like, oh he was this is this okay?

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Speaker 2: So that was one memory. And the second memory, of course,

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Speaker 2: is what actually happened at this famous game, which was

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Speaker 2: that the United States beat Columbia. Right, Columbia was one

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Speaker 2: of the favorite teams to win. There was the famous

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Speaker 2: own goal by Monte.

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Speaker 1: Siscobard Andrea Sascabar was later killed was later killed.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and there's a wonderful documentary about this that I

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Speaker 2: recommend called The Two Escobars, which I really think captures

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Speaker 2: the kind of pathos and the drama of that moment.

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Speaker 2: But something really interesting happened to me then I think

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Speaker 2: that this is what I wanted to share, which is

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Speaker 2: that I began the game as always rooting for the

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Speaker 2: Latin American team, and I found myself in the middle

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Speaker 2: of the game, like everyone around me because there weren't

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Speaker 2: many Columbias. It was mostly Mexicans or Mexican Americans. Rooting

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Speaker 2: for the US because it was an upset and I

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Speaker 2: wanted to talk about that because I know that you,

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Speaker 2: being a normal human being, often for the underdog, if

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Speaker 2: all things being neutral, you root for the underdog like

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Speaker 2: a regular person. But there was a contradiction of the

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Speaker 2: United States is not usually the underdog in anything, but

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Speaker 2: in this particular moment, it felt very like it came

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Speaker 2: out of my gut, this kind of patriotism, and I

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Speaker 2: found myself doing the kind of like Usa Usa chant,

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Speaker 2: which was totally had never happened to me. And I

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Speaker 2: think that's the other thing that's interest about the World Cup,

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Speaker 2: is like the conflicting loyalties, the strange connections you sometimes

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Speaker 2: build with countries that may or may not be your own,

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Speaker 2: And I was wondering if that had ever happened to you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so the first World Cup game you actually ever

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Speaker 1: attended was in Orlando, Florida. This is a fascinating thing

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Speaker 1: to me because I have such a specific memory, and

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Speaker 1: yet you are making a very compelling case that my

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Speaker 1: memory is wrong. So here's my memory of the first

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Speaker 1: World Cup game I ever attended, which I also remember

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Speaker 1: as the first World Cup game you ever attended. It

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Speaker 1: was in Orlando, Florida, my hometown, and I was with

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Speaker 1: my dad. My dad and I have shared many wonderful

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Speaker 1: football memories over the years, even though he's not a

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Speaker 1: huge football fan, he's just a very supportive father. And

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Speaker 1: we went to see the Netherlands play Morocco and Dennis

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Speaker 1: burg Camp scored a goal, I remember, But what amazed

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Speaker 1: me was not so much the action on the pitch,

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Speaker 1: but what happened in the stands, especially with the Dutch fans.

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Speaker 1: And ever since then, I've had a soft spot for

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Speaker 1: the Dutch national team because I watched them win this

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Speaker 1: game against Moran Go and all the orange hair and

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Speaker 1: the orange shirts and the chanting and singing and Dutch

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Speaker 1: and people being arm in arm. I'd never seen anything

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Speaker 1: like that before in real life. I've never seen people

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Speaker 1: swaying back and forth together, singing a song together. The

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Speaker 1: feeling of what is wonderful to me about football is

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Speaker 1: people's love pouring onto the pitch. It's not actually what

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Speaker 1: happens on the pitch. It's that shared sense of enthusiasm,

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Speaker 1: in trepidation and hope pouring down on these twenty two

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Speaker 1: players that makes it so special for me and that

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Speaker 1: was the first time I felt that in real life.

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Speaker 1: But the kicker to this story is that I'm almost

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Speaker 1: sure you were there, and you're almost sure you weren't there,

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Speaker 1: So you, me and your.

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Speaker 2: Father were there and I thought, Sean, Wow, memory is

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Speaker 2: a crazy thing because I'm pretty sure I've never met

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Speaker 2: your dad, and I think we could easily get your

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Speaker 2: dad on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an idea. Have my dad's a guest guest

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Speaker 1: and have him.

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Speaker 2: Adjudicate this whose memory is is more false. Let me

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Speaker 2: ask you a question. How old were you when you

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Speaker 2: just discovered your great surprise that there's no orange on

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Speaker 2: the Dutch flag.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I was probably in my thirties when I've discovered

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Speaker 1: there's no orange in the Dutch flag. It's a shocker.

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Speaker 2: It's a shocker.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a real disappointment, and I think an opportunity

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Speaker 1: for growth in the Netherlands. I think they could there's

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Speaker 1: nothing special about that flag that couldn't be redesigned.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm sure you're going to get lots of New

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Speaker 1: Dutch fans with uh yeah, by claiming they should they

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Speaker 1: should change up their flag. Yeah. Yeah, Well we'll be

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Speaker 1: talking about the Netherlands National team some I'm sure on

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Speaker 1: this podcast, but I do think they have a reasonable

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Speaker 1: chance this year to go pretty far in the tournament,

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Speaker 1: whereas I do not think the US men's national team does.

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Speaker 1: So I will be probably end up rooting for the Netherlands.

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Speaker 2: We'll do later on in the season. Our hierarchy of

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Speaker 2: affiliations and loyalties great because I definitely have thought a

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Speaker 2: great deal about this. Yeah, I'm happy to rank them

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Speaker 2: one to forty eight. Like, I'm sure for you number

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Speaker 2: one will be well, that's interesting what will number one

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Speaker 2: be for you? But for me, it's got to be

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Speaker 2: the US men's national team, even though it's a love

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Speaker 2: hate relationship. Like my wife is always like, why do

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Speaker 2: you watch these people play?

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Speaker 1: You hate it? Yeah, I have a lot of built

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Speaker 1: up anger and disappointment at the US team from over

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Speaker 1: the years.

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Speaker 2: Well, so I grew up watching the proven team. And

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Speaker 2: the thing about being a fan of the of Peru

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Speaker 2: that I've noticed with my cousins and my dad and

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Speaker 2: my uncles we watched the game, usually many fans after

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Speaker 2: the striker misses the open goal, sitter, everyone curses at

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Speaker 2: the striker in Peru. I noticed this with my dad

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Speaker 2: that he started cursing the striker before he missed.

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Speaker 1: You know, yeah, there's a little bit of that. There's

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Speaker 1: a little bit of that, Like I know this is

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Speaker 1: going to disappoint me. I'm just not sure how yet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Look, I think for sure my

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Speaker 2: number one affiliation this time will be Columbia. My wife

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Speaker 2: is Colombian. I'm living in Bota currently. Just for my

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Speaker 2: own safety, I think probably it's the best thing. Sure,

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Speaker 2: you know, I mean within my family. Got to do

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Speaker 2: what's good for the marriage. Yeah, no, for sure. But

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Speaker 2: also this is a player I'm sure you have a

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Speaker 2: soft spot for. Luis DS is an absolute monster of

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Speaker 2: a player and a very likable, hard working, tenacious, worship

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Speaker 2: of the team kind of player who you have the

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Speaker 2: feeling can always sort of, you know, let terrible phrase

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Speaker 2: grab the game by the scruff of his neck and

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Speaker 2: just make things happen. And I have a great admission

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Speaker 2: for players like that. I really like players who are

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Speaker 2: super super technically skilled but still work hard on defense

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Speaker 2: and track back and do all this kind of dirty

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Speaker 2: work that a player like LUSDS does. He also does

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Speaker 2: not seem to have any chill whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: No, No, we missed him in Liverpool a lot. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's one of those players who's underappreciated by fans a

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Speaker 1: lot of times because he does so much work off

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Speaker 1: the ball.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I love him and he's an absolute hero here.

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Speaker 2: So let me tell you something. We moved here to Bota.

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Speaker 2: We had this funny moment where my youngest son is

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Speaker 2: slightly indifferent to soccer. He loves the World Cup, he

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Speaker 2: loves he loves like, you know, the spectacle of this

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Speaker 2: kind of term, but every between World Cups, he's pretty

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Speaker 2: much indifferent to soccer. But he's going to school in Boulata,

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Speaker 2: you know, and he's in seventh grade. And so one

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Speaker 2: night there was a game a morning, you know, before school,

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Speaker 2: after a World Cup qualifier, and he was panicking because

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Speaker 2: we'd missed the game because we'd forgotten about it or whatever.

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Speaker 2: And he's like, Poppy, we have to watch the goals.

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Speaker 2: I have to watch the goals before the bus comes

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Speaker 2: to go to school because I can't go to school

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Speaker 2: without having seen these these goals because everyone's gonna talking

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Speaker 2: about it and I'm gon look like an idiot, you know.

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Speaker 2: And so we were literally like we watched the goals

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Speaker 2: and we like named the players, like who was involved?

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Speaker 2: So you know the social anxiety of being ignoran of soccer,

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Speaker 2: you know. And there's a little billboards around town and

401
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Speaker 2: we go around both the time and I'm like, you know, quick,

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Speaker 2: who's that? And he's like, comis.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, good, who's That's mega progress, Whereas in

404
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,360
Speaker 1: the US you can absolutely get away with only knowing

405
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Speaker 1: Christian Polistic. I feel like in Colombia you have to

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Speaker 1: know the players selected for the national team top to bottom.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean it's helped me in many A, you know,

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Speaker 2: taxikab conversation around town for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Daniel. Before we break down the twenty twenty six

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Speaker 1: World Cup draw, which I'm excited to do with you,

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Speaker 1: I just want to ask you if you have one

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Speaker 1: football moment that you can share with us that stands

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Speaker 1: out as the greatest game you've ever seen, or the

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Speaker 1: greatest game you've ever watched, or the greatest game you've

415
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Speaker 1: ever been a part of, one way or another. I

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Speaker 1: can go first, if that's helpful.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, I have absolutely have the game.

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Speaker 2: So the curtain jersey that I'm wearing right now I

419
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:58,639
Speaker 2: bought in November of twenty seventeen in Lima. I was

420
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Speaker 2: there for the game we played against New Zealand, which

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Speaker 2: was to qualify for the World Cup finals. Can I

422
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,120
Speaker 2: tell you I texted you that day. I had really

423
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Speaker 2: bad a disease called the labyrinthitis, and so I could

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Speaker 2: not open my eyes for two weeks, and Sarah, my

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00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,960
Speaker 2: lovely wife whom you know, brought a radio to my

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Speaker 2: bedside so that I could listen to that game. And

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Speaker 2: then at the end of it, I texted you and

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Speaker 2: it was the first time I had opened my eyes

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Speaker 2: in two weeks. I mean, it felt to me it

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Speaker 2: was the first time I'd opened my eyes in thirty

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Speaker 2: six years. Because I've never seen Peru in a World

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Speaker 2: Cup before. And let me just explain this, because I

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Speaker 2: think this is this is just so that people will

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Speaker 2: understand the level of emotion that I'm working with when

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Speaker 2: I come to the World Cup. The first World Cup

436
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,480
Speaker 2: I remembers eighty six, Peru wasn't there. Peru made the

437
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:47,919
Speaker 2: two World Cup in Spain, but all I grew up

438
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 2: hearing was rumors about Peru having been good. But in

439
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,680
Speaker 2: the current iteration, Peru was bad. Pru never you know,

440
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 2: occasionally got close to qualifying but never actually made it.

441
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 2: In twenty eighteen, we made the what Cold Spanish Left

442
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 2: I Jack had the playoff. We had to play New Zealand.

443
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 2: We went to Auckland, tie zero zero, came back to Lima.

444
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 2: I flew to Lima. And this is a very small anecdoe,

445
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 2: but I was on the long list that year for

446
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 2: the National Book Award and I really hoped that. I

447
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 2: so it's basically ten books and they bring it down

448
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 2: to five that the five finalists have to go to

449
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 2: the ceremony, and the ceremony was the weekend of the game,

450
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 2: and so I was like, I was like, I really

451
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 2: hope I'm not a finalist for the National Book Award.

452
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 1: Like, don't ruin my life making me a National Book Award.

453
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 2: So thank god I was. I was long listed but

454
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 2: not short listed, you know.

455
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 1: So I was.

456
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 2: I was in the top ten, but not in the

457
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,159
Speaker 2: top five. Huge relief because like that would have been awful.

458
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 2: And I flew to Lima and I got a press

459
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 2: pass because I'd convinced the Proven Federation that I was

460
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 2: the New Yorkers South American Soccer correspondent.

461
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, which you are in a way. They don't have

462
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:03,439
Speaker 1: another one.

463
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 2: They don't have another one. I've used this fake position

464
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 2: before to get into games in Buenos Aire's. I told

465
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 2: David Remick, the editor of New Yorker, about this, and

466
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 2: he found it very funny. But I've used this to

467
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 2: get into games all over and occasionally I do write

468
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 2: about soccer for the New Yorker. But basically I was

469
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 2: in the stands. The vibe in Lima that day was

470
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,880
Speaker 2: so crazy and so tense and so excited. I bought

471
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 2: this jersey with my friend Julio. He had a friend

472
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 2: who was making replicas and this was a replica of

473
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 2: the seventy eight jersey. And the guy who brought it

474
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 2: over to our house was like, is so emotional. He

475
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 2: was like basically crying in our arms as he was

476
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 2: selling us this jersey. When the first, you know, within minutes,

477
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 2: we'd hit the bar. We scored the first goal in

478
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 2: the first half, put the game away in like the

479
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 2: seventy eighth minute. The New Zealand team was just completely

480
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 2: awed by, you know, the fans who were singing an

481
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 2: hour and a half before the game and sang for

482
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 2: an hour and a half after. And it was so

483
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 2: emotional because I went out and people were just crying

484
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,479
Speaker 2: in the streets. I walked from the style of nas

485
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 2: United the National Stadium to the to Mita Flories and

486
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 2: in the park there people were just so happy, smashed,

487
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 2: you know, thrilled. There was a kind of police paddy

488
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 2: wagon with its doors open, and there were fans on

489
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 2: top of the paddy wagon and the police van was

490
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 2: going like you know, truck for arresting drunk people, was

491
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 2: covered in drunk people who were climbing all over it

492
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 2: and chanting, and the policeman who was driving this van

493
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 2: was like honking the horn like d Someone had climbed

494
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 2: on top of one of these statues in these old

495
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 2: kind of colonial parks in Lima, and you know, some

496
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 2: random you know, Martyr of the Republic is like on

497
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 2: a horse and they'd like put a jersey over him,

498
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 2: you know, this kind of thing. And I talked to

499
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 2: my cousin the next day, and my cousin like we

500
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 2: met in the I'm trying my shirt now and my memory,

501
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 2: as we'll see in this podcast, is going. He went

502
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 2: out to celebrate, came home, watched the game again, woke

503
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 2: up the next day and watched the game again, you know,

504
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 2: and one of my cousins told me, who had only

505
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 2: ever cried, He's not a crier. He cried at his wedding,

506
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 2: he cried when he watched Diego Manadona's tribute game like

507
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 2: his farewell match, right, and then he cried when peru

508
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 2: Qual fled for the work up. And those are like

509
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 2: the three times that he's cried in his life, two

510
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 2: of which are related to soccer. Yeah, I mean a

511
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,679
Speaker 2: lot of my tears have been shed over soccer, happy

512
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 2: and sad tears. But yeah, for me, it was a

513
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 2: club game. It was seeing AFC Wimbledon get promoted to

514
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 2: the third tier of English football at Wembley. You know,

515
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 2: this little club owned by its fans, that had started

516
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 2: out in the ninth division of English soccer and had

517
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 2: been told by the powers that be that it shouldn't

518
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 2: exist and wasn't in the wider interests of football in England,

519
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 2: making it all the way up to the you know,

520
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 2: to Wembley, playing in front of sixty thousand people, having

521
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 2: my dad there, thinking about how I was with my

522
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 2: dad in nineteen ninety four and here I am in

523
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen with my dad still and not knowing how

524
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 2: many more times I'm going to get to be with

525
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 2: my dad looking at a football game together.

526
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 4: And did your dad ask about me? Because he was like, yeah, yeah,

527
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 4: he wears Daniels that we went. I remember that the

528
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 4: Morocco game, yeah, And I was.

529
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: I was crying even before the game because it's just

530
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 1: such an accomplishment to be there, you know, and and

531
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: and it took so many thousands of people working together

532
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: to make it possible for a fan owned club to

533
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: be there in the first place. But I remember looking

534
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: at my dad right before the game started and saying,

535
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: in two hours, I'm going to feel so differently. I

536
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: just don't know how that. You know your life is

537
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 1: going to be very different, but you don't know how.

538
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: And we scored in the first maybe like sixty minutes in,

539
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 1: and after that it was very tense, very very tense,

540
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 1: until the ninety fourth minute when we got a penalty

541
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: and the largest man ever to play professional football, autobiolock

542
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 1: in Fenwa, who probably weighed two hundred and seventy two

543
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 1: hundred eighty pounds, took the penalty smashed at home. We

544
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: were up to nil, and then it was just the

545
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: purest joy I've ever felt. Tears from I looked over

546
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 1: at my dad. My dad was crying, even though he

547
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 1: doesn't care about football, Like everyone in the stadium was crying,

548
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: everyone was singing together. It just felt like it felt

549
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: like I was in some space where all hope gets rewarded,

550
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: you know, and you don't get that very often. So

551
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 1: that's one that I hold on to.

552
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 2: I treasure.

553
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 1: I think about it whenever I'm sad, whenever something feels impossible,

554
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: I think about that day and think about how there

555
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 1: are more days like that coming one way or another.

556
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 2: That's beautiful. That's beautiful. We should take a quick break

557
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 2: and come back and talk about the World Cup.

558
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: Okay, so we're back on the away end.

559
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 2: I'm Daniella Larcnne.

560
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: I'm John Green. Sorry, I didn't know we're still doing

561
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 1: that bit.

562
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 2: I think we should at least, you know, people know

563
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 2: who we are. Okay. So I don't think we need

564
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 2: to say much about the absurd spectacle of the draw itself,

565
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 2: but I do want to talk about the teams. Yeah,

566
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 2: and I was wondering what your first impressions were of

567
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 2: these groups.

568
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: Well, I felt bad for Scotland getting stuck in the

569
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: same group as Brazil and Morocco. That's going to be

570
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 1: pretty rough, although I still think they could actually go through.

571
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: I was happy for the United States. If the United

572
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 1: States can't beat Paraguay in Australia doesn't deserve to move

573
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 1: forward in the World Cup. You actually texted me this,

574
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: and so it feels like your observation. But my first

575
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: observation was that I think Germany might be in trouble.

576
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: I could see Germany finishing third or fourth in its

577
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: group because I think Ecuador is a perennially underrated team.

578
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: I think they're really well organized and just the kind

579
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: of team you don't want to play, and they had

580
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: a really good qualifying run. And then the last thing

581
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: I'd say is that I always have a little bit

582
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: of a soft spot for a first time World Cup entrant,

583
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: and I don't hate the situation that Cape Verde is in. Yeah.

584
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think they could beat.

585
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia and maybe make their way into one of

586
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: those third place knockout round spots.

587
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, so that I agree with all of that.

588
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: I think.

589
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 2: I think the groupie thing Ivery Coast is no pushover Ecuador.

590
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 2: I think is going to surprise a lot of people.

591
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 2: Have so many good players, and they really were super

592
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 2: steady in South American qualifying. Of course, is probably just

593
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 2: happy to be there.

594
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: I would be.

595
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 2: I mean, it's I think the smallest country ever to

596
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: make the World Cup, and so it's a huge accomplishment.

597
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like the size of an Indianapolis suburb. Yeah,

598
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: it's not even the size of Indianapolis. That's how much

599
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: most curse Allen's described themselves. Actually, I know my experience

600
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: as well. We should add that I'm from Indianapolis.

601
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 2: Yes, of course, the Indianapolis suburb of Caribbean. Yes, okay,

602
00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 2: So I'm interested in your take on the US because

603
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 2: I I mean, first of all, we should mention that

604
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 2: there's still four countries playing for that last spot in

605
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 2: Group D in the United States, and I think that

606
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 2: changes things quite a bit. I mean, I'm guessing it's

607
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 2: going to be Turkey. It'll probably be Turkey. But if

608
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 2: it isn't Turkey, it's a much easier group. Yeah, for sure.

609
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 2: If it's Turkey, that's a super difficult group. But here's

610
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: the thing. Forty eight teams, thirty two of them go

611
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 2: to the next round, is that correct, That's right. So

612
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 2: that means that the top two in each group, and

613
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 2: then the third place team.

614
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: All the best third place teams, which will probably be

615
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: the third place teams that have won at least one

616
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: game at least one game.

617
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 2: A friend of mine made a joke. You said, the

618
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 2: new World Cup rule was that all the teams advance.

619
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: Everybody qualifies, and then everybody advances to the knockout rats.

620
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

621
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: Well, actually we should talk about that, Daniel, because we

622
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: both have a belief about this that the World Cup,

623
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: instead of being too big, is in fact too small.

624
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 2: Well I say that, you know, somewhat in jest, but

625
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 2: I think that, you know, a World Cup that was

626
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 2: the size of the United Nations would be interesting. Okay,

627
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 2: here's the thing. I don't like the best third place

628
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 2: team thing.

629
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: I don't either, because it creates all kinds of situations

630
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: where like Scotland potentially will qualify because they beat Haiti

631
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: even though they're going to probably get absolutely slammed by

632
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: Brazil and Morocco exactly exactly.

633
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 2: I find those permutations become like sort of really weird math,

634
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 2: like when you're yeah, you know, trying to like, you know,

635
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 2: watching like Steve Kornaki on election night, you know, wondering

636
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 2: You're like, if he gets this many votes, can he

637
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 2: still pull up Florida? You know, like that kind of stuff, right, Like,

638
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 2: I don't like when math interferes with joy. So I

639
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 2: find you frustrating, and I often feel like it rewards conservatism,

640
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 2: you know, and like not going for the win because

641
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 2: you want to get that one point as a to

642
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 2: getting the three fests you need. So I find that frustrating.

643
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 2: So a sixty four team World Cup where the top thirty,

644
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 2: you know, the top two in each group go ahead

645
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 2: would probably be better for me.

646
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: It's just enough World Cup. It's more World Cup, but

647
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: it's not an infinite amount of World Cup.

648
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

649
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that way, you have sixty four games to watch,

650
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: and then Peru would definitely make it.

651
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 2: Probably, I'm not going to say definitely, but I would

652
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 2: say probably.

653
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's Peru's it's currently Peru's best path for FEA

654
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: to make a last second amendment to the number of

655
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: teams that qualify for the World.

656
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 2: Cup, yeah, I mean, as it is, I still think

657
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: that Latin America or South America I'm sorry, gets six

658
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 2: and a half spots, so that basically like Bolivia has

659
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 2: the chance still chance to make the World Cup. The

660
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 2: teams that were eliminated basically were Peru and Chile. Yeah,

661
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 2: which was a surprise. Chile was a surprise to me.

662
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: It wasn't a surprise to me. And it's a great

663
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 2: consolation to many Peruvians that if we didn't make it,

664
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 2: at least Chile didn't make it, so that we even

665
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 2: feel a little bit better about ourselves or at least

666
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 2: you know, have you know, misery loves company situation.

667
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: Right, But we were going to talk about the USA, Yeah,

668
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: and I.

669
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 2: Guess I'm gonna it dovetails with this question that I'm

670
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 2: gonna ask which of the North American host teams you

671
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 2: think we'll go farthest.

672
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: So I think the team that's going to surprise people

673
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: is Canada. I think Mexico has a really a pretty

674
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: straightforward group, but I think Mexico's been underperforming for years

675
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: and I don't see a lot of indications that they're

676
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: turning it around. I think Canada could really surprise people.

677
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: I think they're well coached, I think they have good players.

678
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: I could see them getting to the round of sixteen

679
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: a little easier than I could necessarily see the USA.

680
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: I mean, the USA is a better players on average.

681
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 1: I think, like if you line them up eleven versus eleven,

682
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: I would favor the US on talent, but I wouldn't

683
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: necessarily favor the US on coaching and strategy. And so

684
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: I think that Canada could go further in the tournament

685
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: than the US does. What do you think? I think

686
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: that's a bold take, Daniel, Have you not walked watched

687
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: all these podcasts? You've got to have a take. Okay, Well,

688
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: then Caley Smith got where he got by being neutral.

689
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 2: You mean future president Steven Aismith. Look my bull take

690
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 2: then is the Columbia is going to win it all

691
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 2: as long as we're you know, saying speaking nonsense?

692
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: You think the US will go further than Canada?

693
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean quietly. Look, I think, first of all,

694
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 2: I'm not as convinced the quality of Jesse Marsh as

695
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 2: a coach. And I say that as someone who, like

696
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,879
Speaker 2: I mentioned, I spent many weekend afternoon at Red Bull

697
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 2: Arena watching Jesse Marsh's teams, right, And so I will

698
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 2: say this, like I remember seeing Tyler Adams at age seventeen,

699
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 2: bossing the midfield, and I remember thinking that guys like

700
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 2: but already the best player on the pitch, and so

701
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 2: I've liked you know there there weren't It wasn't all

702
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 2: bad at the Red Bull Arena, but jesse Marsh had

703
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 2: a tendency to run his teams into the ground and

704
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 2: then they would just phissilz out. In the playoffs, it

705
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 2: seemed were hard workers. But I remember the comment about

706
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 2: when jesse Marsh was at Leads that he had a

707
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 2: raffina on long throw and you know, and then Raffenia

708
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 2: moves to Barcelona becomes like a blonde or candidate, you know.

709
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 2: I mean, so, I'm not sure that jesse Marsh that

710
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 2: I hold him the same as team that you hold

711
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 2: him in. But they have some great players, no doubt,

712
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 2: and they could surprise us. But I think the US

713
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 2: is a more solid team player for player. Like you said,

714
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:27,720
Speaker 2: I think they have quality.

715
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: I just don't want to hope, Daniel. I don't want

716
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 1: to hope.

717
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hear you.

718
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: You know, it's the hope that kills you. It is,

719
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,399
Speaker 1: it's also the hope that saves you, and you don't

720
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: know which is going to happen. It's the problem with hope.

721
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I remember once looking for ticket prices from

722
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 2: New York to Baku to watch Arsenal in a Europa

723
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 2: League final and then deciding that no, I'm not going

724
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 2: to spend that money to go to to Baku for that.

725
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 2: And then Arsenal got absolutely stomped by Chelsea.

726
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you would have been in Baku.

727
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: Imagine, you know, It's one thing to be in your

728
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 2: living room upset because you lost your team lost to

729
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 2: soccer gam and then but being in Baku and having

730
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 2: spent you know, however, many thousands of dollars to get there.

731
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 2: I saw Liverpool, who was a Champions League final in Paris.

732
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 2: I remember the feeling. Yes, but you're in Paris, that's sure.

733
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 2: It wasn't that no dis respect to Baku?

734
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, I did get to spend a weekend

735
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: in Paris with friends, which isn't the worst outcome. Yeah, okay,

736
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 1: so yeah, I little Liverpool that you'll be fine. Your

737
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 1: hot take is that Colombia is going to win the

738
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: World Cup. My hot take is that Canada is going

739
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 1: to make the last sixteen. I feel much better about

740
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 1: my hot take. Well that's the thing about hot takes.

741
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: That's the thing about hot takes.

742
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just gotta I mean, look, I think everyone

743
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 2: here is looking forward to uh Columbia Portugal. I think

744
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 2: that's gonna be a great game, yep. And I think

745
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 2: Columbia's Pakistan is an absolute you know black box. No

746
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 2: one knows what Uzbekistan will bring to the table. And

747
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 2: then there's still three more are teams buying for the

748
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 2: last spot to make a dr Congo And is that

749
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 2: New Caledonia. I'm not sure, but anyway, I think the

750
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 2: R Congo is probably the strongest team there. And you know,

751
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 2: I think AFCON is the hardest confederation to get out

752
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 2: of to get into the World Cup. And I think

753
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 2: and I mentioned I mentioned this because the other argument

754
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 2: for making the World Cup bigger is not so that

755
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 2: Peru can make it, but it's just the democratization of

756
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 2: the game. I mean, yeah, it's so it is pretty

757
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:35,720
Speaker 2: unfair how few spots there are for African teams compared

758
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 2: to European teams. I realized that European teams are incredibly strong,

759
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,280
Speaker 2: and they're excellent. They have like you know, footballing pedigree

760
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 2: and history, and you know, it would be bizarre for

761
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 2: Italy not to make it for another World Cup. But

762
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 2: African teams have every right to come to the party too,

763
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 2: you know.

764
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, and not only that. Part of the way you

765
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: get pedigree. Part of the way you get that experience

766
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: is by being at the World Cup, right, So, like

767
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 1: France has been at the World Cup. I think since

768
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty, England was always invited to the World Cup.

769
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,280
Speaker 1: But to climb the invitation, but you know, has always

770
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: been part of the World Cup, like Italy, except for

771
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,839
Speaker 1: the couple times when they didn't qualify, always a World

772
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 1: Cup team. Part of how you get there is by

773
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: being there, and so I think that more spots for

774
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: African teams would be great. I also think more spots

775
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: for South American teams would be great because there is

776
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: a like I would worry about a Peru or a

777
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: Chile if they were in my group, and in a way,

778
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 1: I frankly wouldn't worry about Curasow.

779
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 2: Right, right, right, right, So we mentioned Cursaw. We mentioned

780
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 2: with Bekistan cape Verdi's the other debutante this year. I mean,

781
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 2: until at least we finished the elimination the last the

782
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 2: plastic teams that are joining, do you have a sense

783
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 2: of which one might do the best?

784
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: I'm interested in how Uzbekistan does, but I think they're

785
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: going to be in a really difficult group. I think

786
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: Cape Verdi could beat Saudi Arabia and if they do,

787
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,839
Speaker 1: they could qualify. Isn't it Jordan's first time as well?

788
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: It might be Hold on, I'll check real quick.

789
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I go ahead and check. I will say,

790
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 2: since you mentioned Cape Perdy in Group H, we have

791
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 2: Spain Jordan. Is this what Jordan is as well? Jordan

792
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 2: as well. I don't know much about the Jordanian team,

793
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 2: but I imagine they're not bad.

794
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you got to be pretty good to

795
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 1: get out of that group.

796
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, but I do want to say this about Spain,

797
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 2: Cape Verdi, Saudi Arabia, Uruguay. Two things well, One, Saudi Arabia,

798
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 2: we know, beat Argentina last time around. They were the

799
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 2: only team to do so, only team to beat them,

800
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,760
Speaker 2: only team to beat them. But also Uruguay, that doesn't

801
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 2: mean they're a particularly strong team because they didn't so

802
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,280
Speaker 2: much the rest of the tournament. Juraguay is somewhat in crisis,

803
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,280
Speaker 2: not just because the US beat them in a friendly

804
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 2: and the last international break, but also just because Marcelo Bielza.

805
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 2: You know, there's there's the sense that he doesn't have

806
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 2: control of the team, that the players haven't bought into

807
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,800
Speaker 2: his system, and that they made the World Cup but

808
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 2: didn't really inspire much conf And it's I watched part

809
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,959
Speaker 2: of Cape Verdie's campaigns. I have a close friend who's

810
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,399
Speaker 2: Cape Verdian, and she had me rooting for the team.

811
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 2: And the jersey's beautiful and uh, you know, it's not

812
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 2: necessarily pretty, but it's effective. And I think that they

813
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,839
Speaker 2: could they could surprise some people, So we'll see.

814
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it'll be interesting to see how Pekistan

815
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: does because I've seen very little of them. I saw

816
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,320
Speaker 1: a couple of Jordan's games because Jordan's sometimes play against

817
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,720
Speaker 1: Lebanon and one of the Lebanese players plays for AFC Wimbledon,

818
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: but I haven't seen whose Pakistan play at all. So

819
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 1: it'll be fun to watch them. Is there a game, Daniel,

820
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 1: that you think will be the worst game of the

821
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six World Cup? My god, the worst game,

822
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: because I'm going to watch all of them, so I

823
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 1: want you to prepare me. Yeah, that's a really tough

824
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 1: one because okay, I mean, you know, Paraguay is not

825
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: known for its you know, beautiful, fluid at time fucking football.

826
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: Neither is the United States of America and.

827
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 2: Neither is Australia, right, No, so I could see that

828
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 2: one being a real dreary match. I'm very curious about

829
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 2: Haiti Scotland because in that group, that's the game. You know,

830
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 2: if you're the Haitian team or if you're the Scottish team,

831
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 2: you're basically thinking, Okay, Brazil's gonna, you know, absolutely crush us.

832
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 2: Morocco will beat us, and that's the game where we

833
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 2: can get the three points. So neither team is what

834
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 2: we need. Yeah, neither team is going to want to

835
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 2: go for the draw there because the draw won't won't

836
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 2: suit them, so they need the three points.

837
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 1: So that game could be I think that that could

838
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: be an explosive game. I think that could be a

839
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: really fun game. I think Guitar Switzerland could be pretty dull.

840
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 2: I do not.

841
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: I've never liked the way Switzerland set up, even though

842
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: I admire their success in the World Cup, I've never

843
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: particularly appreciated the beauty of their play, and I feel

844
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,399
Speaker 1: similarly about Qatar. Very function over form.

845
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 2: Hmmm. I have a soft spot for Switzerland's because of granted, Shaka.

846
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 1: I know you love granted Shaka. He's a lovely man.

847
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: He seems like a lovely man.

848
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,399
Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, his narrative arc at Arsenal was really something

849
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 2: to behold.

850
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was hated for a while.

851
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 2: He was hated, He almost left and came back, and

852
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,800
Speaker 2: then he became captain. Yeah, wasn't he captain for a

853
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,280
Speaker 2: while he was captain, he was stripped of the captain

854
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:25,399
Speaker 2: c and then he became He didn't become captain again,

855
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 2: but he wore the armband again in situations where Odegard

856
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 2: wasn't playing or something, you know. But yeah, no, I

857
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 2: think he's shown himself to be a man of real

858
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 2: character and a player of great resilience. And I have

859
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 2: great admiration for him for that reason, because it would

860
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 2: have been really easy to give up anyway. This is

861
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 2: other thing that people should know. John of course is

862
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 2: an AFC wimbleded fan. And you know you're a Liverpool

863
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 2: fan who also writes books, and and I'm an Arsenal fan.

864
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 2: I have other affiliations, but none quite as strong as Arsenal.

865
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you also write books.

866
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 3: I do.

867
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, how did you become a Liverpool fan?

868
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 1: By the way, So When I was twelve, I was

869
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: on my middle school soccer team and there was only

870
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 1: one of us who was any good. His name was

871
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: James and he was from England. And James told us

872
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: that in England the games were attended by tens of

873
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 1: thousands of people who would sing and dance, and that

874
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: it was just an environment we couldn't even imagine in

875
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: middle school, that it was nothing like American sports, that

876
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 1: it was way better, and that there was only one

877
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: really great team in England and that team was called

878
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 1: Liverpool Football Club and that was it. We were all

879
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: all school fans. Wow, that's what it took. So we

880
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: were all Liverpool fans. I suspect if you go back

881
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:38,439
Speaker 1: to that middle school soccer team, they're all still Liverpool fans,

882
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: because why wouldn't you be.

883
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, well there's only one truly.

884
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: Great team in England, Daniel.

885
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you the dumb story about how I

886
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 2: became a Narsenal fan. I mean for a long time,

887
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 2: as you know. Yeah, and for our younger listeners and viewers,

888
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 2: this will sound like you know, the Stone Ages, but

889
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:57,240
Speaker 2: you couldn't really easily watch European soccer or Latin American

890
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 2: soccer or anything, you know, Right, So when it started

891
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 2: to become available to me or like, you know, I

892
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:06,800
Speaker 2: wasn't the kind who was going to you know, bars

893
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 2: to watch games at seven in the morning. But I

894
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 2: started watching clips on YouTube. And there was there was

895
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 2: thing for a while called foot YouTube that was like

896
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 2: YouTube just for soccer highlights that someone put me onto

897
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 2: and I would just like, you know, watch the games

898
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 2: and catch up to stuff. And I really liked the

899
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 2: Premier League. I liked it a lot, but I was

900
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 2: looking for a team to support, and I didn't want

901
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 2: to support one of the teams that always won, because

902
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 2: that seems like terrible. Again, you know, normal people like underdogs, so.

903
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 1: You picked the most underdog team of all with only

904
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,240
Speaker 1: seventeen overall titles.

905
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you know again, And as an American

906
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:48,439
Speaker 2: fan who brings a certain whimsical, ahistorical view to the game,

907
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,760
Speaker 2: you know, I like Red and White because I'm proving.

908
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 2: I liked Arsen Den because he reminded me of a

909
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 2: college professor I liked. And I liked Cess Babergas because

910
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 2: he was uh oh yeah, he was just a wonderful

911
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:03,280
Speaker 2: play And then at a Christmas party for my soccer

912
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 2: team in Oakland, which is called Left Wing Football Club.

913
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 2: And at left Wing Football Club we had a sort

914
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,720
Speaker 2: of white elephant Christmas party and my friend Fatiko actually

915
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 2: got the present that he got was an Arsenal jersey.

916
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 2: But Fediko's like one of my only tall friends basically,

917
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 2: and he didn't fit him. But it hit me, and

918
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 2: so he gave me this long sleeve Arsenal jersey that

919
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 2: was like clearly had been bought at a thrift store

920
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 2: and was like, you know, almost threadbare. But that was it.

921
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, well, you know, th red and

922
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 2: white arsen Wegner feels like a buncular professor Cesscabergas, And

923
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 2: now I have a jersey. So I guess I'm an

924
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 2: Arsenal fan. And the amount of time, emotion and worry

925
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 2: that that decision has caused me since that day that

926
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 2: Christmas has been It's just astounding how much of my

927
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 2: time I spend worrying about these players and these these

928
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 2: games and these people that I'll never meet. It's madness.

929
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 2: It's not logical.

930
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: It is a form of madness. My wife said to

931
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 1: me a few years ago. I got particularly frustrated after

932
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: a Liverpool loss, and Sarah said, you just can't have

933
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: your overall well being determined by the exploits of eleven

934
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,439
Speaker 1: twenty four year olds who live five thousand miles away

935
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: from you. And I was like, I mean, I agree

936
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: with you in principle. You're right, it's just that I

937
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: can't help it. And did you say it's not just

938
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: eleven there's also the bench and the coach. Just so

939
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 1: you know, Sarah, there's also like a coach who I

940
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: care about a lot. Well, I mean, I had this

941
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: is similar you're in. Sarah's absolutely right, of course, I

942
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 1: think I'm it's not just Arsenal's better this year, but

943
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 1: I have gotten better at sort of compartmentalizing. Yeah. I

944
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: no longer let it ruin a weekend, and I do

945
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:55,879
Speaker 1: often say after AFC Wimbledon loses or Liverpool loses, I'll

946
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 1: say it's a good thing. I no longer get emotionally

947
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 1: invested in negative football out comes.

948
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 2: That's good, that's good.

949
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 1: And I just say that to myself even though it's

950
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: not true, and then it becomes true by virtue of

951
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 1: saying it.

952
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 2: Enough. Yeah, right, right, right, Well, I remember going to

953
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 2: the doctor once and my my an American doctor, and

954
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 2: I told him when I play soccer, my knee hurts,

955
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 2: you know, and I sort of showed him where hurt,

956
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:21,320
Speaker 2: and he said, well, then you shouldn't play soccer.

957
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: And I was like, man, you don't get it. Man,

958
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 1: I like changed doctors. You're trying to take away the

959
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,280
Speaker 1: only thing I like about being alive.

960
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, come on, man, I remember playing.

961
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,760
Speaker 2: We used to play in bush Rod Park in Oakland

962
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 2: every afternoon, back when I was a young writer with

963
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 2: no responsibilities, and the old guys that would play, I

964
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 2: just admired them so much. It was this Ethiopian dude

965
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 2: who was quite older. I'm forty eight now. He must

966
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 2: have been, you know, late fifties, early sixties. He never

967
00:47:56,239 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 2: moved from you know, like a ten square area on

968
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 2: the pitch. It never took more than three touches. You know.

969
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 2: He would get the ball, kill it dead, and make

970
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 2: the pass. And I just remember thinking like, man, I

971
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 2: want to be like that guy, you know, I want

972
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,839
Speaker 2: to be able to keep playing and sort of still,

973
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 2: you know, not do what I do. You know, you

974
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 2: know it's not show offye, it's just being part of

975
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 2: that collective on the pitch. Of trying to do something.

976
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,439
Speaker 2: You know, even adding one pass to a nice team

977
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 2: move is enough. You know, are you still there? Are

978
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 2: are you able to still play? I hurt myself in

979
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 2: June in Lima. I have played with my cousins every

980
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 2: time I go, and we play. Now we're old enough

981
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 2: that we play adults versus kids. So it's a you know,

982
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 2: a team of seven cousins against a team of seven kids.

983
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 2: And my oldest son, Leon was in Lima, so we

984
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:54,399
Speaker 2: you know, it was like Leon was on the team.

985
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 2: And we played two weekends in a row and I

986
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 2: injured my achilles and I knew I was injured the

987
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 2: first Sunday and we won, and I knew we had

988
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 2: there was no chance I couldn't play the next Sunday,

989
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 2: So I played again the next Sunday and then I

990
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 2: haven't been able to play since. So I'm in recovery now,

991
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 2: but I'll be back. I'll be just in time for

992
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 2: the expanded World Cup. Yeah, two thousand, two thousand and thirty,

993
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 2: you'll be there. I have a doctor story for you.

994
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,359
Speaker 2: I after my daughter was born, I went to get

995
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 2: a vasectomy and I noticed on the wall of the

996
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 2: visectomy doctor a diploma from the University of Manchester. And

997
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 2: I said, did you go to the University of Manchester?

998
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:39,720
Speaker 2: He said I did. I said do you like football?

999
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 2: He said I do.

1000
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 1: I said who's your team? He said Manchester United? And

1001
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 1: I got a vasectomy from someone else.

1002
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 2: That's great, That's absolutely great. I mean, you know, probably smart,

1003
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 2: probabably the right choice.

1004
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not a risk worth taking. It would be

1005
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,399
Speaker 1: one thing if we were talking about like a mole

1006
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 1: removal or something, but we're talking about something sensitive. So yeah,

1007
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: I wasn't having that done.

1008
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 2: Years ago, I was traveling in the Peruvian jungle and

1009
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 2: were in his little town and uh, they had they

1010
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,879
Speaker 2: had all the bulls because they was small, they'd sort

1011
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:16,760
Speaker 2: of they had a few cows, and they had bulls

1012
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 2: whose job was to impregnant all the cows. And all

1013
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 2: the bulls had names of Argentine goal scorers, so like strikers,

1014
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 2: because their job was to score, you know. So I

1015
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 2: just remember there was one giangle and this guy was

1016
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,760
Speaker 2: strung around and he's like and this is Martin Palermo

1017
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 2: and this is Battistuta.

1018
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:39,919
Speaker 1: It was great.

1019
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 2: It was a great So anyway, no, no mencunion. Uh,

1020
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:45,760
Speaker 2: the seconds for those bulls.

1021
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: All right, we're back, Daniel. Are you planning to attend

1022
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 1: any actual games at this twenty twenty six World Cup?

1023
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 1: Where is FIFA too odious for you to give them

1024
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: your money?

1025
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 2: The latter. First of all, the games are too expensive.

1026
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 2: I mean, I think I could have used my New

1027
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 2: Yorker South American soircer correspondent tech to get in. But

1028
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 2: first of all, if I go to the game and

1029
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 2: can't be with the people I love, but I have

1030
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:28,240
Speaker 2: to be in a press box with a bunch of dorks,

1031
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 2: I don't want to do that.

1032
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: It's fun.

1033
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 2: No.

1034
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 1: And second of all, like Daniel Alercon coming out hard

1035
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 1: against the press, I have fake moose press a bunch

1036
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 1: of dorks.

1037
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 2: No. I say that lovingly as a member of the press.

1038
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:45,319
Speaker 2: But also I want to be in a soccer mad

1039
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 2: country when the World Cup is happening, and I happen

1040
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 2: to be living in one right now, so I think

1041
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 2: I'll stay here. I do want to watch a Cape

1042
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 2: Birdie game with my friend who's from Cape Birdie, with

1043
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 2: her family and people who are mostly in the Boston area.

1044
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 2: One thing I do love about being, you know, having

1045
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 2: been lived World Cups in different American cities, in New

1046
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:05,839
Speaker 2: York or in the Bay Area, you can always sort

1047
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 2: of like watch the Korea game at the with the Koreans,

1048
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 2: and you know, watch the Egyptian game with the Egyptians,

1049
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 2: and and that's pretty special. I don't think we're going

1050
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 2: to get that here in Colombia, but we will get

1051
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 2: the Colombian experience of watching a Colombian game in Colombia

1052
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 2: will be really incredible. I watched the Morocco game in

1053
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 2: Morocco once Morocco Sweden in the ninety eight World Cup

1054
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 2: won one, and it was one of the most intense

1055
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 2: experiences of my life. I think, I, you know, got

1056
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 2: secondhand smoke inhalation, you know, nearly passed out from all

1057
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 2: distressed out Moroccan men smoking around me in this closed cafe.

1058
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 2: But it was I think that that's that's pretty incredible,

1059
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 2: and that's why I want to be there. And also, man,

1060
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 2: DIVA is the worst, just the absolute worst, and they

1061
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 2: don't deserve to be running the most beautiful global sporting spectacle,

1062
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 2: but that's what we.

1063
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: Make they are, and they don't. And yet I am

1064
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:00,840
Speaker 1: still going to go to a game, and I have

1065
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: mixed feelings about it. But I can't miss the opportunity

1066
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,320
Speaker 1: to take my dad to a football game and go

1067
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: there with my friends and have that feeling that I

1068
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 1: had in nineteen ninety four, apparently without you, that that

1069
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 1: is such a special feeling for me. And so I'm

1070
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 1: torn between. I don't want to give these people my

1071
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: money and I do want to share this thing with

1072
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 1: my dad, and in the end that wins.

1073
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fair for me.

1074
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 1: That's fair.

1075
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:34,359
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't hold it against you at all,

1076
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 2: you know, speaking of fathers. I don't know if've ever

1077
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 2: told you this, John, but my dad's first job as

1078
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 2: a kid growing up in Atiquipa, Peru was a soccer announcer.

1079
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 1: No, I didn't know that.

1080
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he would go to the games the club

1081
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 2: team there is called Meligat and go and my grandfather

1082
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 2: was a member of the club and he would go

1083
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 2: with my dad and my dad my uncle's to the

1084
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,919
Speaker 2: game every Sunday or Saturday. And my dad was drawn

1085
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 2: of the game, of course, but also really loved the

1086
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 2: announcers and would sort of like hang out by the

1087
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 2: booth as the announcers were calling the game for the radio.

1088
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:10,279
Speaker 1: And he just loved it.

1089
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 2: He loved the wordplay, he loved the drama, the narrative tension,

1090
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 2: he loved it all and he would copy them in

1091
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 2: the sense that for the little neighborhood games where the

1092
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 2: kids in his neighborhood would play. He wasn't very good athlete,

1093
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 2: he would go out with the microphone and a little

1094
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 2: speaker they would plug into the lamp and then he

1095
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:30,839
Speaker 2: would narrate the local soccer games that his friends were

1096
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,320
Speaker 2: playing in the neighborhood and he got really good at it.

1097
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:35,800
Speaker 2: He got so good at it that he tells me

1098
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 2: that on Sunday afternoon dinners or at Sunday afternoon, you know,

1099
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 2: after lunch, you know, there was no TV, and the

1100
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 2: entertainment was often my dad. They'd be like Tito, narrate

1101
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,879
Speaker 2: a goal for us. And that was how people lived

1102
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 2: soccer back then, because if you didn't see it in

1103
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:56,959
Speaker 2: the stadium, you didn't see it on TV. But people

1104
00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:58,839
Speaker 2: would follow the games on the radios. People were used

1105
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 2: to sort of creating the film and their heads that

1106
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,319
Speaker 2: accompanied the words that were being said, and my dad

1107
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 2: got very good at it. So he would always narrate

1108
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 2: a goal, which was Peru's goal against Brazil in nineteen

1109
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,799
Speaker 2: fifty something Copa America. He can still do it, by

1110
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 2: the way, he's in his eighties and he can still

1111
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:20,320
Speaker 2: narrate that goal. And he got so good and he

1112
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 2: hung out around the booth so much that eventually, when

1113
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 2: the announcer got a job in Lima, the kind of

1114
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 2: head announcer they hired my dad. Wow, he was like

1115
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 2: sixteen and he became the voice of Meligad from the

1116
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:37,839
Speaker 2: stadium in Atiquepa. And so it's funny because when I've

1117
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 2: watched the games and this is, you know, more when

1118
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 2: I was younger. But he would always he would talk

1119
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 2: a lot about the soccer, obviously, but he would also

1120
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:48,840
Speaker 2: talk about the announcers. You know, he had he had

1121
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 2: criticism of the announcers. He's like, you know, he's like,

1122
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 2: you know they because narrating for for radio is different

1123
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 2: from narrating for TV. Narrating for radio you really have

1124
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 2: to be much more precise. And for TV, the images

1125
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:00,800
Speaker 2: are doing a lot of works. You don't have to

1126
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 2: really sort of say, do the play by play of

1127
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 2: what's going on.

1128
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: You know, right, you don't have to say where the

1129
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:07,920
Speaker 1: ball is, you don't have to say you don't have

1130
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 1: to imply with your voice the level of danger as

1131
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 1: much as you do. And when you're on the radio

1132
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 1: and you can often say often you'll find TV announcers

1133
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 1: just saying who has the ball. They'll be like Lucas Piketta, pause, pause, pause,

1134
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 1: then the next guy, pause, pause, pause, then the next guy.

1135
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 1: It is a very different skill than narrating for the radio.

1136
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe we'll be if your dad's going to come on,

1137
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 2: maybe you should bring my dad on also to narrate

1138
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 2: a goal.

1139
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:35,279
Speaker 1: We should we should have him narrate that goal.

1140
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good one.

1141
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:38,760
Speaker 1: So we're going to end every episode of the Away

1142
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 1: End with a story about the World Cup or our

1143
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 1: particular love of football, and Daniel's provided us with a

1144
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:46,239
Speaker 1: beautiful first story, so thank you very much. I really

1145
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 1: appreciate that.

1146
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:47,840
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1147
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 1: Now we have to get to the important bit, which

1148
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:52,759
Speaker 1: is what's at stake. Something has to be at stake

1149
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,719
Speaker 1: in this podcast, and that is going to be we

1150
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: haven't decided yet, but we are going to each do

1151
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 1: a World Cup Brad like they do for March Madness.

1152
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 1: Daniel and whoever gets more of the teams correct as

1153
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 1: we go. I think maybe we will have to work

1154
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 1: out the exact mechanics.

1155
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, there needs to be some science to this,

1156
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:14,240
Speaker 2: but for sure, Yeah.

1157
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 1: There needs to be science where maybe if you get

1158
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 1: a finalist that's weighted more than one point. But at

1159
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 1: any rate, we'll figure it out. I've got it. I've

1160
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 1: got a strategy, and whoever wins the bracket will win

1161
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 1: the bet, and then the winner of the bet will

1162
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 1: get something wonderful.

1163
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 2: Yes, that we haven't determined. That we haven't determined. I

1164
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 2: was thinking about that really poor young man who's been

1165
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:39,439
Speaker 2: growing his hair out until Manchester United wins five games

1166
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 2: in a row.

1167
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 1: That poor guy, that poor guy is really you know.

1168
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 2: I mean, he's not gonna be able to get in

1169
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 2: and out of the door of his home, but you

1170
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 2: know that this happens.

1171
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:55,439
Speaker 1: We should note, by the way, while we're talking about hair,

1172
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 1: that we are a couple of forty eight year olds

1173
00:57:57,800 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 1: with exceptional heads of hair. I mean, you have a

1174
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 1: really exceptional head of hair. You don't have a gray

1175
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: hair on your on your head, but we both have,

1176
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 1: as hair goes, relatively good heads of hair.

1177
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 2: For our age. Yeah that's true, that's true, And I'm

1178
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 2: currently growing my hair back out I cut it short

1179
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:15,960
Speaker 2: earlier this year, so you will be able to watch

1180
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 2: that progress as the tournament nears. But I don't think

1181
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:23,680
Speaker 2: that those steaks should be hair related necessarily, Like I'm

1182
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 2: not going to vault here to shave my head if

1183
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 2: if you win.

1184
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think my spouse would prefer if my hair

1185
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 1: decisions were made largely between me and my barber.

1186
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 2: Hmmm, good, good, good good, same, Okay, I promise to

1187
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 2: keep thinking. I think that that you know, we're going

1188
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 2: to be posting this episode and sort of clips from

1189
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 2: this episode, and of course.

1190
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 1: If you have ideas, leave them in comments, to leave

1191
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 1: them in the comments. Send us, send us messages on

1192
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 1: Instagram or threads or wherever you can find us. Yes, Daniel,

1193
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 1: where can people find you on the internet? I am

1194
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: theoretically on Instagram, Daniel g Alarcon. I don't post much,

1195
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 1: but I'm there. Same and same, Yeah, watch soccer clips. Same.

1196
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 2: I missed Twitter honestly before it was a sewer of

1197
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 2: racist Nazis.

1198
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 1: I miss being with you on Twitter and talking to you.

1199
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 1: I don't miss Twitter. I miss talking about soccer with

1200
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 1: people who loved soccer with me. I don't miss Twitter.

1201
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 1: There's something wrong with the structure of the social Internet

1202
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 1: that we're not going to get to the bottom of

1203
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 1: in this soccer podcast. But I was very serious.

1204
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I agree, and maybe should talk about that offline. Man.

1205
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 2: So this has been a really fun first episode of

1206
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:37,919
Speaker 2: The Away and we'll be back next week thanks to Kurt,

1207
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 2: our producer, and Sean who will be re regaling us

1208
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 2: with his knowledge of the sport throughout the season as

1209
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 2: we approach the woke Up anything.

1210
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 1: Else you want to add, Thanks for listening and thanks

1211
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 1: for being here with us.

1212
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Thanks, We'll see you next week on New Wind.