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Speaker 1: All eight episodes of The Die For are available now

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Speaker 1: to bitch absolutely free, but for ad free listening and

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Speaker 1: exclusive bonuses, subscribe to tendorfoot Plus at tenderfoot plus dot

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Speaker 1: com or on Apple Podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Warning, the following episode contains explicit language and sexual themes.

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Speaker 2: Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 3: My test, Mike test cool, Yeah, good, Yeah, we're okay.

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Speaker 3: I never said this to anymore. Every woman can seduce

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Speaker 3: a man, and it doesn't matter how does she look.

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Speaker 3: It's all about your skills, what do you say, how

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Speaker 3: do you touch, and how you're good and sex. That's it.

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Speaker 3: The most important thing. Not to give him everything at

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Speaker 3: the same moment, so you cannot go to bed and

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Speaker 3: slippit him at the first day, unless it's a special

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Speaker 3: mission where you have to kill your target.

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Speaker 4: Some spies use poisons, others use guns. But for Lea Rosa,

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Speaker 4: who's sitting in front of me right now, her body

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Speaker 4: is made into a weapon by the Russian military her

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Speaker 4: mission to seduce powerful men for their secrets or sometimes

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Speaker 4: their lives. This type of intelligence work is known as

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Speaker 4: sex bionage, and it's much more dangerous than you think.

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Speaker 3: What is sexpionage? Actually? These sex becomes like a drug,

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Speaker 3: and your target becomes like drug addicted. When a drug

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Speaker 3: dealer wants to put someone on the needle, he gives

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Speaker 3: a little bit. He doesn't give straight away everything. So

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Speaker 3: the same way you do. You give a little bit sex,

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Speaker 3: you give a little bit taste, and you tease, you

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Speaker 3: tease till you make sure that your target becomes addicted

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Speaker 3: to you because you put so many anchors around him

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Speaker 3: and his brain in his body. Basically the body gets

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Speaker 3: used to you, so he physically cannot be with someone else.

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Speaker 5: To really sorry.

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Speaker 4: Episode one, chapter one, the meeting. Our story begins with

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Speaker 4: the mafia.

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Speaker 1: I call from a mafia family.

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Speaker 6: It's a real mafia family.

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Speaker 2: I mean, not like some of the people that you.

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Speaker 4: You know that will be say I'm connected in all that.

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Speaker 4: My father actually did go before Robert Kennedy and McClelland

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Speaker 4: and the interview you're listening to me many years ago,

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Speaker 4: speaking with Johnny Fratto, also known as the Beverly Hills Gangster.

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Speaker 4: His father worked under al Capone and his brother was

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Speaker 4: killed in the tragic plane crash that also took the

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Speaker 4: life of boxer Rocky Marciano. I have a question about

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Speaker 4: the mom, has it changed, right?

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Speaker 5: That's all movies.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't exist, never did.

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Speaker 4: I was publishing a book with Johnny about his colorful

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Speaker 4: and controversial life. We'd get together and he'd tell stories

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Speaker 4: for hours.

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Speaker 7: I could judge.

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Speaker 1: I don't belong in here.

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Speaker 7: I'm twenty four years old.

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Speaker 2: My wife is now pregnant with my son, Johnny. I

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Speaker 2: don't belong with him.

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Speaker 4: After Fratto moved to Los Angeles, he set his sites

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Speaker 4: more on fame than racketeering, and unexpectedly became a recurring

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Speaker 4: guest on The Howard Stern Show. The son he just

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Speaker 4: mentioned grew up and wanted to leave the family business

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Speaker 4: and get into the film business.

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Speaker 2: This is Johnny.

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Speaker 4: Introducing his son, Johnny Junior, to stan Lee, the legendary

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Speaker 4: Marvel Comics writer. My sight, he thinks he can you

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Speaker 4: write a movie.

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Speaker 8: Everybody who's written his first movie has never written a

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Speaker 8: movie before, and why couldn't he.

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Speaker 7: Do it right? At least as I look like a writer,

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Speaker 7: I look like one.

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Speaker 2: Of the foudios as.

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Speaker 4: Not long after this, Johnny Fratto died of lung cancer

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Speaker 4: at the age of sixty one. I didn't talk to

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Speaker 4: his son, Johnny Junior much after that. But one afternoon,

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Speaker 4: after years of silence, he called with an incredible story.

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Speaker 7: So I have got a weird thing, like it's gonna

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Speaker 7: sound fucking strange to you, and I don't even really

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Speaker 7: know how to catch this to you.

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Speaker 2: Where where do I begin? Because you wrote the book

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Speaker 2: The Game. I met this girl.

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Speaker 7: That basically says she knows how to seduce men, pick

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Speaker 7: up men, do whatever, you know, Like basically, she can

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Speaker 7: own any man in two fucking seconds.

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Speaker 4: What Johnny's referring to here is an infamous book I

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Speaker 4: wrote over a decade ago. Two years I spent undercover

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Speaker 4: in a secret society of pickup artists.

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Speaker 7: And here's the crazy par She says she was a

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Speaker 7: Russian spy at one time. I mean, it's the craziest

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Speaker 7: she ever heard. She told me that there's like a

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Speaker 7: school that she had to attend in Russia where she

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Speaker 7: had to like literally like have sex with her teachers

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Speaker 7: in front of the class, and have sex with different

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Speaker 7: relationship from the class, and learn how to give perfect

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Speaker 7: blow jobs.

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Speaker 4: And I'm sitting here, I've literally never heard of anything

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Speaker 4: like this, and frankly found it hard to believe. I'm

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Speaker 4: sure the crude way Johnny Junior was speaking about it

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Speaker 4: wasn't helping any She was trained by the like Russian

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Speaker 4: government to seduce men and like get their secrets or whatever.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, she was trained by Russia. She says to uh,

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Speaker 7: you know, fucking give the perfect blowjob to fuck a

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Speaker 7: guy perfectly. And I kind of believe her, man, I mean,

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Speaker 7: I really do think she's telling the truth. And it's

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Speaker 7: a little weird, but I thought, you know, if there's

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Speaker 7: any one guy in the fucking world that it would

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Speaker 7: be up hiss aally it's you.

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Speaker 4: And can I asksk the obvious question, which is how

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Speaker 4: did you meet her?

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Speaker 7: I met her through an Armdian guy named Art, and

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Speaker 7: Art's adapper, probably the most dapper little guy I've ever met.

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Speaker 7: And he said, you know, Johnny, there's somebody that you

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Speaker 7: got to meet. You got to come over here.

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Speaker 2: It's very special.

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Speaker 7: I said, Okay, well what is it? So I get there.

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Speaker 7: He introduces me. Obviously, she's beautiful, I mean, like she says,

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Speaker 7: she was trained to go in and fucking do with

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Speaker 7: like fucking heads of state and shit like that.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 4: And then how would you described like her just as

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Speaker 4: a person in general?

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Speaker 7: You know, she's very kind of like a cool seductress

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Speaker 7: that looks you straight in the eye all the time

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Speaker 7: and kind of always knows the right thing to say.

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Speaker 7: Every single thing I was saying to her, she just

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Speaker 7: had the perfect retort because I was, you know, I'm

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Speaker 7: not trying to be an asshole, but you know, look,

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Speaker 7: this town is hard.

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Speaker 4: A couple more questions, how do we know she's not

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Speaker 4: still working for the Russian government?

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Speaker 2: Johnny said.

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Speaker 4: I could ask her that question and any others I

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Speaker 4: had when I met her. I figured if the Russian

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Speaker 4: government wanted to get me, they were probably easier ways.

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Speaker 7: May man, what's going on you?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 7: I really miss you, man. I mean, Jesus, last time

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Speaker 7: I saw you was what my dad's funeral or something?

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Speaker 7: Was funeral Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 4: Johnny introduced me to the woman standing next to him.

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Speaker 4: She was tall, with dyed blonde haircut short and stylish,

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Speaker 4: and wearing what looked like very expensive designer clothing. This

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Speaker 4: was the reputed former Russian spy Aliah.

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Speaker 7: Rosa Rosa Neil Strauss, I want you guys to meet

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Speaker 7: each other.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for an introduction, Neil.

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Speaker 7: I'm telling you by the end of the night, you

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Speaker 7: guys are going to be best.

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Speaker 4: We sat down for dinner with a few other people

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Speaker 4: that invited to get their take on the situation, including

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Speaker 4: a former top breaking agent at the CIA.

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Speaker 6: That's what you have both on the spot.

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Speaker 2: Do you want to tell a little bit about a liah?

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Speaker 7: And then I always have to get permission first because

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Speaker 7: the story is kind of crazy. Do I have permission

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Speaker 7: to basically get fucking crazy with it? Tell her what

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Speaker 7: you're really fantastic. I'm gonna tell the true. So I'm

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Speaker 7: gonna say somethe this woman right here and this is

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Speaker 7: no ship what through a training thing.

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Speaker 4: That Johnny Junior then repeats much of what he told

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Speaker 4: me earlier in the same crass language.

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Speaker 7: I know that sounds the bad, but but it just

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Speaker 7: I'm just telling true.

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Speaker 4: So anyway, that's it is that that is That is

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Speaker 4: that introduction.

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Speaker 2: Pretty thoughts of the introduction.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I'm I mean it was authentic, right, So it's authent.

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Speaker 7: Right, I'm just going about I'm just saying what I

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Speaker 7: you know, I know, yes, I know, But there's much

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Speaker 7: more to the story.

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Speaker 4: It's clear that Aliyah is a little uncomfortable and that

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Speaker 4: there's a lot more.

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Speaker 2: To her story.

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Speaker 3: Never ever before I shared this story with anyone, including

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Speaker 3: my parents. Nobody knows those people who knew they were killed.

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Speaker 4: After the dinner, I spoke with my source from the CIA,

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Speaker 4: who didn't want his name or voice to be used,

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Speaker 4: and asked what he thought. She seems credible, He replied,

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Speaker 4: but her story is incredible. Anything that was a great dinner,

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Speaker 4: that's one. It was an odd dinner. It's basically the CIA,

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Speaker 4: the KGB, and the mafia. And I was left with

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Speaker 4: more questions about Aleia Rosa than answers, And to me,

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Speaker 4: that's always a good sign to move forward. Chapter two,

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Speaker 4: A dirty organization. After meeting Aliyah, I decided to look

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Speaker 4: more into her story. There wasn't a lot online, but

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Speaker 4: I did find a few items legitimizing her, a few

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Speaker 4: items delegitimizing her, and a social media page that was

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Speaker 4: very influencery. Then I looked into actual evidence of a

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Speaker 4: seduction program operated by the Russian government, and there was

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Speaker 4: no in depth information online. It seemed like something out

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Speaker 4: of a spy movie.

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Speaker 3: You made such a bold entrance into a little drama.

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Speaker 3: Two doesn'ts appreciate the occasion With Twist's mister Bond.

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Speaker 4: James I probably wouldn't have believed it at all if

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Speaker 4: not for a strange experience I had a decade earlier.

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Speaker 4: I received a call out of the blue from a

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Speaker 4: special agent at the FBI. We are dedicated to national

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Speaker 4: security investigations of the highest order, he told me. He

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Speaker 4: went on to reveal two things that shocked me. The

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Speaker 4: first is that my book The Game was required reading

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Speaker 4: for his agents. The second was that he'd like me

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Speaker 4: to fly to Washington and train a group of field

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Speaker 4: agents and analysts on the art of seduction. It was

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Speaker 4: an offer I couldn't say no to talking.

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Speaker 6: You know, I would say, what do you feel like

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Speaker 6: doing that web feels right for you? You know, because

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Speaker 6: I'm talking in your ranche was I'm talking to visual person.

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Speaker 6: I'm like, what do you see yourself doing today? How

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Speaker 6: do you see yourself going out to this world? Because

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Speaker 6: I know they're going to be visualizing and these things

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Speaker 6: are really key for getting reports.

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Speaker 2: Talking.

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Speaker 6: It's all modalities. If you want to talk in their

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Speaker 6: primary modality, and this is.

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Speaker 2: This is that I'll be with.

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Speaker 4: So I called Robin Dreeke, one of the agents who

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Speaker 4: was present at that session and the former head of

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Speaker 4: the FBI's Behavioral Analysis program to ask why was the

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Speaker 4: FBI learning the art of seduction?

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Speaker 8: We brought you in. A benefit of what you brought

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Speaker 8: to us was a deep understanding of human psychology. And

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Speaker 8: in our work where you're developing confidential human sources and

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Speaker 8: recruiting spies, the understanding of how to develop for poor

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Speaker 8: and attraction is key and critical minus going for romantic interactions.

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Speaker 8: A lot of those other techniques are extremely effective. And

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Speaker 8: you brought a vast amount of personal, real life experience

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Speaker 8: to that with the book, and you're coming in and

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Speaker 8: training with us.

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Speaker 4: It's so interesting, so I'll feel you it and get

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Speaker 4: your getting your thoughts. And at dinner, Eliah said she'd

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Speaker 4: worked for a Russian intelligence agency called the FSB, which

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Speaker 4: I never heard of before, so I asked Robin to

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Speaker 4: give me a little background on how Russian spy programs operate.

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Speaker 8: So in general at mirrors ours pretty closely, and like

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Speaker 8: their SVR is the equivalent of our CIA, and their

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Speaker 8: GRU that's the Russian military intelligence is the equivalent of

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Speaker 8: our DIA Defense Intelligence Agency. Their FSB is the equivalent

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Speaker 8: of our FBI. They see intelligence more as a as

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Speaker 8: a factory event in the sense of this an assembly line.

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Speaker 8: I don't remember the exact number, but at the height

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Speaker 8: of the cold or before the KGB broke into the

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Speaker 8: SVR and the FSB, I think that the number of

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Speaker 8: employees that were part of the KGB were in the

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Speaker 8: millions compared to a handful of our operatives overseas. For

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Speaker 8: the like the CIA and DA and A are an

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Speaker 8: intelligence machine. They suck it all in and they collect it.

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Speaker 4: All Why, I asked Robin, does Russia have this evidently

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Speaker 4: deserved reputation as the world capital of spying?

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Speaker 8: The gross domestic product GDP of Russia it's like Italy's

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Speaker 8: or Texas. I mean, it's not huge. And when you're

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Speaker 8: a country that relies on hydrocarbons for your economy and

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Speaker 8: that can fluctuate as much as it has been fluctuated

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Speaker 8: definitely in the last bunch of years, you don't have

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Speaker 8: They don't have a huge economy. It's not very strong.

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Speaker 8: And so when you're cash strapped and you're trying to

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Speaker 8: be the big boy on the world stage, if you

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Speaker 8: don't have the military because you can't support it, you're

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Speaker 8: going to do it in another way. And they do

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Speaker 8: it in intelligence because intelligence collection, the way they do

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Speaker 8: it is a lot cheaper than anything else. And they

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Speaker 8: send their messages whether they're going to publicly, even though

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Speaker 8: they say it's not public, but you know, killing people

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Speaker 8: with depleted uranium, there's a lot of other ways that

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Speaker 8: take someone out silently. Those things are made for public

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Speaker 8: statements saying we can find you anywhere in the world

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Speaker 8: and we'll take you out, And that's intelligence operations, and

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Speaker 8: it's a lot cheaper doing that than anything else, and

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Speaker 8: so that's why they utilize their intelligence organizations to do

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Speaker 8: just that.

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Speaker 4: I feel in Robin who spent twenty two years recruiting

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Speaker 4: Russian spies at Aalah's seduction training with the FSB, and

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Speaker 4: ask him what he thinks.

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Speaker 8: Anecdotally and totally believable, the FSB that is a dirty organization.

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Speaker 8: You know, it's an organization that is founded on doing

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Speaker 8: things just like that. I mean, they use honey traps

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Speaker 8: and use it with Clayton Loan Tree, and I know

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Speaker 8: there's been others that just don't hit the news.

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Speaker 4: We'll get into the story of Clayton Loan Tree and

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Speaker 4: some of those others later in this podcast, and we'll

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Speaker 4: also talk more about honey traps. The honey in this

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Speaker 4: term is the agent who's seducing a target, and the

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Speaker 4: trap is, now that I have evidence you've slept with me,

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Speaker 4: or now that you've fallen completely in love with me,

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Speaker 4: here's what I want from you.

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Speaker 8: No one volunteers to the FSB. That's why they have

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Speaker 8: to use honey traps and train people to do that,

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Speaker 8: because they're dicks. If you're a foreign diplomat over in

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Speaker 8: their country, they're going to harass, to live in hell

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Speaker 8: out of you, and then they're going to try to

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Speaker 8: trap you and coerce you into cooperation. That is not

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Speaker 8: the way to recruit a human being. That does not

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Speaker 8: make anyone feel safe.

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Speaker 4: I ask if the United States has seduction spies, and

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Speaker 4: Robin claims that they do.

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Speaker 3: Not.

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Speaker 4: Even taking a source to a strip club and using

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Speaker 4: government money for that, he says, would be a political liability.

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Speaker 2: When she was talking.

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Speaker 4: About her experience, You're just there and you stay there

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Speaker 4: out of fear. There's like if you leave, your life's

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Speaker 4: going to be destroyed.

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Speaker 8: I mean, you know this, for the world you've been in,

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Speaker 8: that's a broken toil, and broken toys have an unhealthy

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Speaker 8: outlook on the world unless they've realized that they've been

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Speaker 8: through counseling.

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Speaker 2: Now find what you mean by a broken toy.

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Speaker 8: First of all, people that are susceptible to being recruited

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Speaker 8: or trafficked, because basically she's human. Trafficked is what she is.

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Speaker 8: There was a need in her life that wasn't being

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Speaker 8: fulfilled somewhere else, and the FSB came in and fulfilled

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Speaker 8: that need to be seen, heard, and valued by others,

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Speaker 8: and then they manipulated that against her.

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Speaker 4: Keep in mind that I don't know a lot yet

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Speaker 4: about Leah's story or how she was recruited and needed

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Speaker 4: is Robin, He's basing this analysis on his intelligence experience.

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Speaker 8: To me, there's no difference between a child predator and

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Speaker 8: what they did to her. Welcomed to the world of

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Speaker 8: Russian Intelligence.

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Speaker 2: Chapter three, The Target.

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Speaker 6: Nice to see.

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Speaker 3: I'm really excited to share it with you.

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Speaker 4: It's a sunny Wednesday afternoon in Malibu and Alia Rosa

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Speaker 4: has come over to discuss the podcast. When someone says

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Speaker 4: they've been trained their whole life in the art of seduction,

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Speaker 4: you tend to question everything they say and do and

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Speaker 4: wonder if it's all a manipulation.

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Speaker 3: I love your shoes.

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Speaker 2: They're so cool.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Mary, I have not seen anything like this, really stylish,

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Speaker 3: like my son would really love it.

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Speaker 4: There's a controversial and often hurtful technique that the pickup

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Speaker 4: artists in the game taught, and it called the nag.

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Speaker 4: You give someone what appears to be a compliment and

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Speaker 4: then say something slightly backhanded so that they're not quite

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Speaker 4: sure if they're being complimented or insulted. And that's exactly

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Speaker 4: what Leah just did to me. Elee's brought over a

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Speaker 4: bottle of wine, which doesn't often happen in the meetings

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Speaker 4: I attend. I handle the corkscrew well, I go to

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Speaker 4: check on my son. When I get back, the wine

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Speaker 4: is unopened, and she hands the corkscrew back to me.

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Speaker 4: I get the funny feeling that she's trying to prove

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Speaker 4: to me that she hasn't tampered with the wine.

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Speaker 3: Okay, cheers first, cheers, have your Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 4: Yes, but did you purposely not open the wine or

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Speaker 4: so like you knew it was.

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Speaker 2: I could trust the wine.

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Speaker 3: You left to see to check on your son, I

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Speaker 3: could drop something you know, you know, like yeah, I

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Speaker 3: know that you have this kind of like assaults it's

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Speaker 3: normal you and putting. You are the same type.

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Speaker 2: Believe it or not.

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Speaker 3: You protect yourself, your environment, your family. Of course it's

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Speaker 3: a good thing. That's not putting us. He also protects

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Speaker 3: his country.

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure how to feel about that put In comment,

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Speaker 4: and that's probably just what Aleah wants. Another nag. She

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Speaker 4: then shares something else that really messes with my mind,

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Speaker 4: something that just may be true given what Robin Drake

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Speaker 4: from the FBI just shared with me.

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Speaker 3: Actually, like you'd be surprised. There's so many agents working

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Speaker 3: in America, Like so many, Yeah, even in Malibu, Like

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Speaker 3: you know, seriously, just be aware. Don't say anything about putting.

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Speaker 3: I mean yeah, I sound like like kind of like

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Speaker 3: don't say it is kind of like putting some fears,

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Speaker 3: but like it's better not really too. I mean, when

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Speaker 3: Americans discussed like Biden, no Trump, it's kind of like, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 3: But once they discuss about like putting, there are always

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Speaker 3: many years around.

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Speaker 4: I turned the discussion to the podcast. Even though the

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Speaker 4: period of lie is talking about as many years ago,

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Speaker 4: I assume Putin still wouldn't be happy about her sharing

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Speaker 4: state secrets. Speaking that are their concerns for safety in

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Speaker 4: speaking out and telling your story and sharing all this information.

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Speaker 3: To say I'm not scared, I would lie. Yes, of course,

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Speaker 3: I am a mother of thirteen years old son. Yes

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Speaker 3: of course I'm scared. I don't know what might happen.

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Speaker 3: Right if I will beat that tomorrow, Let's say I

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Speaker 3: know that my son, even it would be so hard

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Speaker 3: for him, he will grow up and he will respect

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Speaker 3: me for that. At least I had enough courage and

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Speaker 3: bravery to stand up and speak out against this evil.

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Speaker 4: That evil, she explains, is more than.

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Speaker 3: Just puttin sharing that life events is a proof of

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Speaker 3: how corrupted the whole system is and how the male

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Speaker 3: dominance is just so strong there that being a female

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Speaker 3: in Russia, it means that you're almost like you have

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Speaker 3: the same rights like a dog. And it's it's just

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Speaker 3: not even like it's not right. But this is if

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Speaker 3: this isn't a human.

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Speaker 2: The other question is if we're going to go.

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Speaker 4: Tell the story, are you comfortable just just sharing all

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Speaker 4: your experiences, good or bad, and no matter.

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Speaker 2: What people may think.

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Speaker 3: I don't feel comfortable at all. Honestly, I don't want

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Speaker 3: people to think that I like I can kill people.

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Speaker 3: I'm a murder. You know, it's a bad kind of like,

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Speaker 3: you know she could kill people, then maybe she can

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Speaker 3: do it now, who knows? You know, she doesn't have

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Speaker 3: this stop because on the good side, I protected my

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Speaker 3: country great and I tried to survive. On the bad side,

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Speaker 3: I'm still a murderer. I still killed some people, and

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Speaker 3: I still feel guilty for that.

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Speaker 4: And asked Johnny when I first spoke to him, Oh,

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Speaker 4: how do I know she's not still working for Russian Intelligence?

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Speaker 3: You know what, I don't know how johnswer this question? Really,

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Speaker 3: how do you know if i'm if I'm like, I

404
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:19,880
Speaker 3: may still work for puts in right, because I will

405
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Speaker 3: reveal the real truth was going on there and what

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Speaker 3: was happening before. When I heard about the Ukrainian War,

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Speaker 3: I felt that moment that I really want to speak out.

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Speaker 3: I felt like I can't just sit down there and

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Speaker 3: just be silenced like I was all this time.

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Speaker 4: Looking back in the time you were in Russian intelligence,

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Speaker 4: do you think you were a hero or a victim?

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Speaker 3: Definitely victim, But brain was that I was a hero.

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Speaker 2: I plainly.

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Speaker 4: In my interview with Robin Drake, she pauses and reflects

415
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Speaker 4: when he calls her a broken toy, I ask her

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Speaker 4: what she's thinking about it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, for so many years I didn't feel that

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Speaker 3: I was broken. But it's hard, you know, Neil, It's

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Speaker 3: so hard to accept that because it's such a big guilt.

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Speaker 3: It's such a big pain when you realize and when

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Speaker 3: you accept that I was a part of this evil system.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I guess I am broken, and yes I

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Speaker 3: am a toy.

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Speaker 4: As Leah talks further, I'm reminded of the grim reality

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Speaker 4: that the victims and sexpionage are not just the targets,

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Speaker 4: but the seducers themselves. Over this, it's been an intense discussion,

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Speaker 4: and I totally afterward that I would like to move

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Speaker 4: forward and share the story of her training, her espionage work,

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Speaker 4: and her escape from the Russian military. I just have

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Speaker 4: one last question. Is she ever able to turn off

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Speaker 4: the role she was forced to play? Her answer confirms

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Speaker 4: one of my deepest fears.

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Speaker 3: No, I mean, like seduction is I think, Yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: a lifestyle. It's definitely a lifestyle once you learn it.

435
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Speaker 3: It's just like habit. You go everywhere with this, you

436
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 3: live like that. I wanted to work with you and

437
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 3: you in this case, like warm my target. So I

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Speaker 3: did it for this goal which we are having great now,

439
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 3: and it's yeah, I can tell this a seduction, and

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00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 3: then I realize that you are my perfect target. I

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Speaker 3: seduce to.

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Speaker 4: We will continue in episode two, available now along with

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Speaker 4: all eight episodes of TODE for volume one. Continue listening

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Speaker 4: for free on Apple Podcasts.