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Speaker 1: Call Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Dick it Happen here a podcast increasingly about it

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Speaker 2: having happened. We have spent a long time on this

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Speaker 2: show talking about what the second Tump administration is going

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Speaker 2: to meet for trans people, and you know, go listen

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Speaker 2: to those episodes. The short version is that it is

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Speaker 2: going to be very, very bad. We're facing care bans,

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Speaker 2: we're facing federal funding bands. Things are about to get

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Speaker 2: unbelievably bleak. But this campaign didn't come out of nowhere.

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Speaker 2: It is the combination of almost a decades worth of

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Speaker 2: fighting by the right, And I think we have a

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Speaker 2: tendency to treat the rights campaign against trans people as

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Speaker 2: something abstract right, as a sort of abstract political debate,

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Speaker 2: or even if it affects us. We tend to treat

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Speaker 2: the subjects, the immediate subjects of the harassment, as sort

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Speaker 2: of these distant, famous figures. But the issue with looking

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Speaker 2: at it this way is that the harassment, the hatred,

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Speaker 2: the violence is happening to real people with real names

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Speaker 2: and faces, who live lives exactly like yours. The difference

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Speaker 2: between you sitting in your house right now and someone

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Speaker 2: whose face is on TV is about the difference between

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Speaker 2: whether a few right wing journalists cover who you are.

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Speaker 2: So today we're going to be talking to someone who

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Speaker 2: has been subject to almost the entire spectrum and range

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Speaker 2: of the sort of emergent far right campaign against trans people,

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Speaker 2: who have seen basically the entire campaign against trans people

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Speaker 2: evolve specifically in the far right's harassment against them. And

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Speaker 2: that person is the artist and musician Precious Child out

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Speaker 2: of La Welcome to the show. I wish it was

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Speaker 2: under better circumstances.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for having mema. Glad to be here. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I'm excited to talk to you.

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Speaker 2: I'm slightly apprehensive in the sense that my god, this sucks, but.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's our lives. What can we do?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: What will we do? Wow? Yes?

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Speaker 2: That that that's the question for the end of the

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Speaker 2: episode is what are we going to do about all

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Speaker 2: of this shit? But let's go back to sort of

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Speaker 2: the beginning. Can you can you sort of talk about

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Speaker 2: your first encounter with I guess at that point, what

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Speaker 2: was a not especially mainstream part of the religious right

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Speaker 2: back in night around twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I've been I've been making music as a

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Speaker 1: Precious Child for almost a decade and it was my

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Speaker 1: very first album that I put out, one called Trapped,

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Speaker 1: that had this track on it titled Phantom, and that

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Speaker 1: was an instrumental track with just some kind of whispery vocals,

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Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't a song per se, it was

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Speaker 1: experimental and I put on a music video with it

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Speaker 1: and it was pretty It's pretty creepy and there's flashing lights.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you think of movies from the eighties

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Speaker 1: like hal Raiser, it's kind of like that, you know,

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Speaker 1: like kind of gritive of some type of greater supernatural horror.

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Speaker 1: And the far right at that time, the far right,

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Speaker 1: vintage twenty eighteen, they found it and started reporting it

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Speaker 1: on mess and tagging their friends and saying to report this,

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Speaker 1: report this. And this was on Instagram and Facebook and

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Speaker 1: on YouTube as well. And that video, like, as I said,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's creepy, but it's there's nothing political in it,

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Speaker 1: and there's a little bit of like of blood, but

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Speaker 1: there's no gory. But they found it unsettling and explicitly satanic.

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Speaker 1: That's what they said, This is satanic. And that was

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Speaker 1: my first brush with the right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's really interesting to me that it's specifically

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Speaker 2: the satanic angle that they're taking, because it's like it's

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Speaker 2: like in this early enough phase that they're still sort

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Speaker 2: of developing their reasons to be angry. They haven't quite

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Speaker 2: like a tastasized transphobias like they're driving things, so they're

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Speaker 2: kind of they're reaching back into this kind of satanic

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Speaker 2: panic era, like the weird nineties and two thousand stuff

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Speaker 2: that like when when I was growing up, the town

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Speaker 2: that I grew up with super religious, and like, you know,

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Speaker 2: we had to have lists of like if you were

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Speaker 2: inviting like a friend in high school to a party

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Speaker 2: whose parents could know that it was a Halloween party

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Speaker 2: and whose parents couldn't because they would freak out about

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Speaker 2: which is it's like that kind of thing, which I

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Speaker 2: don't know, it feels like almost quaint now, even even

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Speaker 2: as this stuff's escalated.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it was, as I said, it was a

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Speaker 1: moral panic. And their point was that that I was

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Speaker 1: a moral for making art like this, and it was

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Speaker 1: this is the same thing that's happening today. I'm a

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Speaker 1: moral for the art that I make. And it's not

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Speaker 1: just my art, but it's me. It's me. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: and I think that's perhaps what has changed as well.

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Speaker 1: Like before they were saying that this is a satanic

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Speaker 1: evil person because they're making this art, and now they're

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Speaker 1: saying this is a satanic evil person making satanic evil art.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think part of the focus on art here, right,

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Speaker 2: is this kind of mirrored reflection of the sort of

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Speaker 2: I mean of the original Nazis, Right, Like one of

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Speaker 2: their big things was just like cracked down on quote

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Speaker 2: unquote degenerate art, and they had like these like quote

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Speaker 2: unquote degenerate art festivals of just like Jewish artists and

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Speaker 2: people whose art they didn't like it. It was, you know,

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Speaker 2: like what a thing that was like a significant factor

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Speaker 2: in their rise. And I think there's this sort of

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Speaker 2: mirror of it here, but I don't know, starting in

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Speaker 2: a weirder place in some ways, like starting more out

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Speaker 2: of this very very weird like Christian moral panic shit.

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Speaker 2: That's I guess if you want to look at how

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Speaker 2: this you know, plays out, like that's kind of where

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Speaker 2: it is in like twenty eighteen, right, this is the

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Speaker 2: first bathroom bill is in past twenty eighteen years Carolina.

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Speaker 2: But there's you know, there's a huge backlash to it

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Speaker 2: and that's something that's i think very different than now

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Speaker 2: where like all of this city trendshit is happening, everyone's

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Speaker 2: just kind of going eh, So, do you want to

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Speaker 2: talk about the second time he became tarketed the far right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean, realistically, like this has been pretty constant

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Speaker 1: throughout my life as a public artist. And there was

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Speaker 1: another there was another track on that album that was

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Speaker 1: also targeted. One call it titled My Little Problem Violet Door,

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Speaker 1: that has some more provocative imagery than the track Phantom,

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Speaker 1: has some nudity, and that was the collaboration between myself

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Speaker 1: and a artist who is trans themselves Kid out of Brazil,

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Speaker 1: and that has again some body horror in it. There's

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Speaker 1: commentary about gender norms and plastic surgery and identity, but

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Speaker 1: it wasn't explicitly political. Again, it was kind of a

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Speaker 1: surreal body horror video. And that was brigade reported not

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Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen, but in twenty nineteen and actually taken

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Speaker 1: down from YouTube and then reinstated. And that video is

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Speaker 1: notable because as a result of what's going on today,

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Speaker 1: YouTube took that down despite it being up for five

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Speaker 1: years without a problem that you know, I'd had tens

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Speaker 1: of thousands of views and now it's gone, So that

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Speaker 1: was the second time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that one I think is interesting to in the

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Speaker 2: sense of like that one's like a lot more it's

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Speaker 2: more overtly trans and it's also I think the more

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Speaker 2: trands you are, the more the more like very obviously

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Speaker 2: trans it is. And this is I guess something that's

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Speaker 2: very common among trans artists is kind of like art

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Speaker 2: that's an exploration of sort of body horror it you know,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not going to project onto it. I

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Speaker 2: don't know if this is ucifically are doing, but like,

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Speaker 2: you know, there's a lot of it that's body horror

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Speaker 2: as this sort of metaphor for dysphoria, and like it's

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Speaker 2: this way of sort of thinking about the things that

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Speaker 2: are happening to your body, things that have been done

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Speaker 2: to your body, and the things that you're doing back

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Speaker 2: to it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, I didn't really think too

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Speaker 1: much about the concepts in that direction when I made

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Speaker 1: it or when and I okay didn't either at that time. However,

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Speaker 1: the truth is, for much of my young life, I

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Speaker 1: felt out of body and I wanted my flesh to

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Speaker 1: match my personal vision of myself and my identity, and

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Speaker 1: that was something I struggled with for quite a long time.

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Speaker 1: When I was young, I didn't have access to the

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Speaker 1: information and communities that are out there now that support

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Speaker 1: trans people. Yeah, and I have had some gender confirming

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Speaker 1: procedures done, not as many as I think I would

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Speaker 1: have when I was younger. I did feel existential discordance.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if that's a word, but if

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Speaker 1: it's not, I'm going to coin it because pretty sure

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Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't feel feel in concordance with my flesh,

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Speaker 1: and so, you know, I came to experiment what the

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Speaker 1: boundaries were of of my fleshy identity, in my existence

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Speaker 1: in my art. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I think there's something about the way that your

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Speaker 2: art works and the way that a lot of quratis

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Speaker 2: are where there's you know, and this isn't to say

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Speaker 2: that all Corota's like this, but there's definitely like an

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Speaker 2: edge to it. There's stuff going on. There's body horror

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Speaker 2: things happening. There's like eighties aesthetic stuff, and I think

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Speaker 2: it conflicts with this kind of weird concaid everything is

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Speaker 2: like happy and cozy, sort of kitch aesthetic thing. That

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Speaker 2: a lot of like this kind of fascism is really into.

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Speaker 2: They use the kind of a kind of aesthetic sensibility

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Speaker 2: as as a weapon to go after stuff that they oppose.

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Speaker 2: Is for more oftly political reasons. They can do this

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Speaker 2: kind of like hey, look at this disgusting thing, et cetera,

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Speaker 2: et cetera kind of attack on queer art as a

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Speaker 2: result of this kind of like fascist kitch aesthetic thing

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Speaker 2: that's kind of like this this you know, this sort

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Speaker 2: of like cultural norm in our society. And I think

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Speaker 2: I have I haven't one worked out the political inplication

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Speaker 2: of this, but I think there's this kind of connection

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Speaker 2: between their their weaponization of like revulsion and their weaponization

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Speaker 2: of this reaction to like anything that's kind of like

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Speaker 2: horror e that they kind of like use as a

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Speaker 2: political attack.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think gender is horrifying period. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: not just for queer people, but also for CIS people.

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Speaker 1: Like I'm gonna defend CIS people here for a second.

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Speaker 1: So SIS people struggle with gender dysphoria. I think maybe

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Speaker 1: I would say every bit as much as trans people,

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Speaker 1: but they sure fucking struggle with it. Yeah. For instance,

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Speaker 1: an example I will give is face. Lots of people

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Speaker 1: that were assigned male at birth, they fret and earned

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Speaker 1: worry over their facial hair. Is it too much? Is

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Speaker 1: it too little? Then people that are signed female at birth,

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Speaker 1: you know, if they have facial hair, you know, they

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Speaker 1: thread over it. You know, well, people see it. Do

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Speaker 1: I have to bleach it? Do I have to pluck it?

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Speaker 1: People fret over like they're freaking jaw lines like you know,

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Speaker 1: if you search online like masculine jawline, how do I

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Speaker 1: get There's a huge community out there of assigned male

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Speaker 1: at birth sys men that are trying to get more

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Speaker 1: defined jaw lines because they feel that their genetics are

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Speaker 1: presenting them as a non optimal male quote unquote, And

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Speaker 1: of course, same thing for quote unquote females, like do

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Speaker 1: I have the female feminine body? Is it curvy enough

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Speaker 1: in the right ways? Is my waist slim enough? You know?

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Speaker 1: Is am I just brick shaped? And then all the

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Speaker 1: industries around that, and that, I think is is horrifying.

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Speaker 1: And everyone goes through that and struggles with it, and

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Speaker 1: very few people are lucky enough to embody the ideals

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Speaker 1: of gender that we thrust upon ourselves. And to me,

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Speaker 1: that is a tragedy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that sort of like fear and

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Speaker 2: that sort of like grinding experience of being forced to

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Speaker 2: like perform a gender at a certain way. Well, okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to say perform, because the Butler scholars

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Speaker 2: are going to get extremely mad at me.

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Speaker 3: But the.

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Speaker 2: Way in which you're forced to sort of live up

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Speaker 2: to these standards that are sort of nonsense. I think

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Speaker 2: it gets to this thing where you know, you could

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Speaker 2: either sort of like muddle through it and try to

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Speaker 2: ignore the distance as much as you can. You can

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Speaker 2: attempt to fight it, or you can get extremely bad

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Speaker 2: and everyone else is trying to do something about it.

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Speaker 2: And I think we're seeing an explosion of the last option.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, we need to go to ads, which is another

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Speaker 2: thing that drives a whole bunch of this. Luckily, these

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Speaker 2: are audio ads, so hopefully they're not driving beauty standards.

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Speaker 2: But you know, who knows people are wizards. They'll find

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Speaker 2: a way to you.

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Speaker 1: By mabeline.

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Speaker 2: And we are back. I mean, I guess the Watch

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Speaker 2: to Stay Highway Patrol does forder dorms on people.

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Speaker 1: Oh, they sure do. May I give another example of

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Speaker 1: of hideous gender and ORMs yeah. So you listener, you're

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Speaker 1: hearing me, right, and you're hearing my voice. And this

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Speaker 1: is another thing that all people fret about. It's not

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Speaker 1: trust trans people. Lots of a fabs, I know, I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna say a fab and amap Okay, lots of

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Speaker 1: a fabs, I know. You know, they have pretty darned

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Speaker 1: deep voices naturally, and they I've talked with them privately

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Speaker 1: and they say that they worry about how husky their

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Speaker 1: voice is when they just relax. And then same thing

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Speaker 1: for amaps. They talk about worrying if their voice is

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Speaker 1: squeaky and thinner. Talk like frecking wrestler from w WE,

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Speaker 1: you know, like people people like that. People struggle with

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Speaker 1: that too. Just so yeah, just something as simple as

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Speaker 1: our appearance and our voice. You know, we're just torturing ourselves.

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Speaker 1: And ultimately, I gotta say, Niah, you know, I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: a trans woman. However, ultimately I'm a gender abolitionist because

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Speaker 1: this shit sucks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's not it's not great. It's not a

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Speaker 2: good time for any way in fault. Yeah, speaking of

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Speaker 2: bad times, this is even an ad pivot. I just

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Speaker 2: do this now, which really bad. I do it to

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Speaker 2: people by daily life. They're like, why are you anpivoting me?

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh God, but yeah, I guess God,

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Speaker 2: this and the sort of racialization aspect, and I don't

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Speaker 2: know the aspect of zones of gender performance. God damn.

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Speaker 2: I keep saying performance that I literally mean that you

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Speaker 2: were performing it, as in you were acting and not

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Speaker 2: the butler thing of your before we get to make

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Speaker 2: it real. Please don't yell at me in the comments

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Speaker 2: I had. I had the guy who wrote a writer

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Speaker 2: on the Big Bang Theory yelled at me specifically about

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Speaker 2: that on Twitter. What Times Apparentoid. It's really okay. Sorry,

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Speaker 2: I about to rail this enough, partially because this next

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Speaker 2: part is really depressing. But so a while back on

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Speaker 2: this show, my my co host Garrison, who is I

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Speaker 2: don't know, probably having an absolutely terrible time at the

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Speaker 2: Consumer Electronics Show right now, covered a specific far right

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Speaker 2: panic that became known as the we Spat contract for Sea.

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Speaker 2: Do you want to talk about how the right stuck

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Speaker 2: you into that shit? Because Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So you know, in twenty eighteen, as I said,

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Speaker 1: I put out this album and then I put out another,

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Speaker 1: and I star I was touring the country and Canada

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Speaker 1: and stuff and doing shows pretty much constantly. And then

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Speaker 1: twenty happened and I became involved in the George Floyd

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Speaker 1: uprise and the Black Lives Matter marches and protesting, and

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Speaker 1: so I began to live stream those protests and marches

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Speaker 1: with the specific intent of contextualizing what the heck was

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Speaker 1: going on on the streets to people watching, because a

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Speaker 1: lot of people, you know, regardless of their politics, did

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Speaker 1: not understand what the issues were. And the thing is,

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Speaker 1: in LA there were a lot of continual police murders

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Speaker 1: even through the riots. And by police murders, I mean

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Speaker 1: the cops shooting on our black people in the back

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Speaker 1: as they were running away, or executions, you know, shooting

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Speaker 1: them in the car, that type of thing. And so

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Speaker 1: I was explaining that to the viewers, like, this is

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Speaker 1: why people are in the streets, this is a specific issue,

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Speaker 1: these are the laws surrounding it, and why these actions

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Speaker 1: by the police are not just horrifying, they're also illegal.

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Speaker 1: And so I was doing that and I became pretty

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Speaker 1: darn visible and popular, like I was maybe one of

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Speaker 1: the top five best known activist or racial justice voices,

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Speaker 1: and I was targeted by a right wing activist who

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Speaker 1: was known for blocking the vaccination clinics at Dodger Stadium,

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Speaker 1: specifically because I was visible, because I was trans, and

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Speaker 1: so she went for me and posted and said that

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Speaker 1: I was a transgender individual who was in the women's

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Speaker 1: spa of we Spa and I was sexually harassing people,

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Speaker 1: and that went viral on social media. It was covered

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Speaker 1: on Fox News for a week. I was getting constant

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Speaker 1: death threats, and you know, I was dogs. It was

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Speaker 1: pretty durable, especially because I was not that person in

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Speaker 1: the spa and I was only best picked up because

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Speaker 1: I was picked up for my visibility. My response to

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Speaker 1: that was I didn't immediately say yeah, I was me,

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Speaker 1: It wasn't me, leave me alone, Leave me alone. I

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Speaker 1: didn't do that because I knew that if I said that,

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Speaker 1: then they would just pick and attack some other transperson. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I know that like the shit that

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Speaker 1: the that the right wing machine and acts, if it

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Speaker 1: happens to one of us, it can happen tral that's end,

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Speaker 1: it likely will.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean I think the thing that it

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Speaker 2: reminds me the most. Something we've also covered on the

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Speaker 2: This is one of the problems with talking about this.

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Speaker 2: It's like doing this for so long that like there's

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Speaker 2: very few things that I could say that I can't

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Speaker 2: be Like, I've said this on the show before, but

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Speaker 2: we spent a lot of time, petically, Garrison spend a

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Speaker 2: lot of time covering the way that every time there's

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Speaker 2: a mass shooter, the right immediately just like picks a

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Speaker 2: random transperson and goes it was this person. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: this reminds me a lot of the same thing, although

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Speaker 2: this is a more targeted, like we've invented a fake

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Speaker 2: controversy about a trans person, and then we're going to

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Speaker 2: like also just pick a random famous trand well not

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Speaker 2: even famous, but like a random trans person that we

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Speaker 2: know about and don't like.

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Speaker 1: It's my understanding that this twenty twenty one, we spaw

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Speaker 1: a controversy that I was targeted for became something of

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Speaker 1: a right wing playbook. Yep. It was after that that

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Speaker 1: they started saying, oh, this and that person's trans, and

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Speaker 1: before that they didn't have a real moral panic around

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Speaker 1: trans people unless you look all the way back to

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Speaker 1: the North Carolina South Carolina bathroom man.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think I think there's an interesting

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Speaker 2: intermediary thing too, where so my friend Vicky ashterwhile who

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Speaker 2: depending on when this episode comes out, you'll you'll be

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Speaker 2: hearing from either right before this episode or right after.

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Speaker 2: I had another version of this where she wrote a

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Speaker 2: book called In Defensive Looting. It came out in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty and just for like three months became all the

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Speaker 2: rest we really two months like became the like the

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Speaker 2: giant figure with which everyone who didn't like the uprising

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Speaker 2: was just like taking it out, so like like sitting

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Speaker 2: in Congress, people were like denouncing this book that you wrote.

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Speaker 2: Every base Remdia outlet like specifically had their editorial people

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Speaker 2: going like, this book is evil, Vicky's evil. And I

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Speaker 2: think that was also like this moment of deep connection

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Speaker 2: between the backlash of the uprisings and the anti trans

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Speaker 2: uprisings because the people who you know, are trying to

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Speaker 2: maintain a white supremacist gender system like intimately themselves, even

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Speaker 2: if they don't understand it on a theoretical level, understand

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Speaker 2: that they're that these things are preserving the same systems

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Speaker 2: of violence, and so they picked us as sort of

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Speaker 2: like the wedge point to to break this thing apart.

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Speaker 2: And I think with Vicky, they hadn't really figured out

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Speaker 2: how to do it, and I think it was like

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Speaker 2: specifically your case, the the we spa, like with you

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Speaker 2: being put in as the figure of the we spase,

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Speaker 2: this is where they like actually really figured out how

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Speaker 2: to do the whole thing. And yeah, there's just something

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Speaker 2: really bleak about both how effective it was and the

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Speaker 2: fact that it's like these are just people I don't know,

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Speaker 2: Like this isn't the thing that's happening to sort of

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Speaker 2: like astract figures. It's just like, yeah, people I'm having

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Speaker 2: conversations with are how.

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Speaker 1: They did this just I don't know. I wish I

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Speaker 1: had more and elsis but but yeah, I think that

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Speaker 1: trends people like to to Greater America, to most to

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Speaker 1: a lot of America, I'll say, are a.

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Speaker 4: Sensational you know people people imagine chicks with dicks and

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Speaker 4: dudes with dudes without dicks, and so I think that's

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Speaker 4: really exciting for a lot of people, you know, for

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Speaker 4: better or for worse.

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Speaker 1: I think for for worse. But yeah, I think that's

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Speaker 1: just like people and their bodies, right, Like you know,

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Speaker 1: I guess some people walk around think all the time

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Speaker 1: about other people's crotches. Uh, I'm not going to say

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Speaker 1: that's a bad thing. Crush the first of your scene,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: But on the other hand, right, there's this there's this

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Speaker 2: aspect of which, like you know, there's a seris socialism,

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Speaker 2: but then there's also the experience of being a trans

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Speaker 2: person is like I too am trying to find a

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Speaker 2: way to not pay rent. Like that's like I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so back to back to we SPA. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: was a pretty terrible experience for me. And I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to lie about it now. I I'm glad that

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Speaker 1: I stood up for for myself. I'm glad I stood

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Speaker 1: up for trans people that I didn't pass the buck.

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Speaker 1: It was also really difficult and traumatic, and I didn't

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Speaker 1: appreciate the death threats. I didn't appreciate and docs and

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Speaker 1: you know, people have come after me my my whole life,

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Speaker 1: like I present I think just naturally physically, like I

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Speaker 1: present as being gender queer, like I've been pretty like

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Speaker 1: fearing like looking femme my entire life. That had nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with my internal identity. I've been weird my

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Speaker 1: entire life. I've perpetually been curious and provocative and interested

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Speaker 1: in things that were provocative, and so I've been harassed

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Speaker 1: my whole life. However, until we SPA and to experience

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Speaker 1: the strangers by the hundreds saying that they're gonna hunt

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Speaker 1: me down and fucking shoot me. Yeah, I never know

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Speaker 1: if someone will recognize me when I'm out and be like, hey, buddy,

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Speaker 1: I know you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's one of these things where like the

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Speaker 2: more of a target on you, the more likely it

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Speaker 2: is to happen. And even people who don't have targets

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Speaker 2: on them, like I know people you know who've never

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Speaker 2: experienced anything like this that have still just like had

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Speaker 2: attacks on them, and it's fucking terrifying. It is an

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Speaker 2: absolutely terrible way to have to live in, a terrible

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Speaker 2: sort of thing to have to experience, especially is it's

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Speaker 2: just being intensifying.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, that was That was twenty to twenty one,

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Speaker 1: and that changed me. That experience of being targeted and

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Speaker 1: just picked on out of the freaking blue. That changed

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Speaker 1: me as an artist. And at the same time it

427
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Speaker 1: also firmly established me as a sort of celebrity. And

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Speaker 1: I want to speak to that because there's different tiers

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Speaker 1: of celebrity, you know. At that yes, at the at

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Speaker 1: the top because the tier that's known as I get

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Speaker 1: a Christmas card from Tom Cruise every year, and that's

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Speaker 1: an actual thing, and that's the A list. And you

433
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: know you're on the A list because Tom Cruise since

434
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 1: your Christmas card. And at the bottom is me, who's

435
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: been in mass media many times now but has none

436
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: of the benefits.

437
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

438
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 1: You know, I make very little money as an artist,

439
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 1: and I don't have an entourage. I can tour and

440
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: I play play some shows and you know, some of

441
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 1: them are sold out. I'm playing the show in LA

442
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,439
Speaker 1: that's sold out, But I'm not playing large venues. No.

443
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: I maybe play like, you know, three hundred five hundred

444
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 1: capacity tops, and most place I play are like small clubs,

445
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: like one hundred and fifty years. So yeah, and so

446
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,719
Speaker 1: I don't I don't have the protection that most celebrities

447
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 1: inherently have. I don't have book deals, I don't have

448
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: movie deals. I don't even have an AGA. I don't

449
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: even have a record label. Yeah. So I'm the freaking

450
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: D tier. I'm the D tier, and they're coming after me.

451
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's I mean, and that's the thing about

452
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 2: the sort of like this status of like niche d

453
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 2: tier internet micro celebrity is like I don't like, I

454
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 2: feel like I got the best possible version of it,

455
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 2: where like I got a job that pays slightly I

456
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 2: think I might have hit. No, I'm still I'm still

457
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 2: below the median salary of assists man in the U,

458
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 2: but I'm approaching it, getting closer every year, every union fight,

459
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 2: we approach median.

460
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,479
Speaker 1: Sis man salaries.

461
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 2: But like, yeah, the situation I got is effectively the

462
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 2: equivalent of winning the trans lottery, right, Like this is

463
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 2: about the best you could possibly hope for if you're

464
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 2: a transperson you get famous, Like yeah, I mean like

465
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 2: I get that threats too, right, Like nothing anywhere near

466
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 2: the scale that you get, And mostly what happens is

467
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 2: like I mean, like single digit numbers of trans people

468
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 2: in the US have the kind of protection that actual

469
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,719
Speaker 2: celebrity gives you and everyone else. Celebrity is just another

470
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 2: It's just a giant target painted on you. And yes,

471
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 2: you have none of the benefits and all of the

472
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 2: sort of Hey, here is one hundred and fifty million

473
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 2: people who absolutely hate you and who've been primed and

474
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 2: targeted like specifically at you.

475
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's something that I wonder about, like, why why

476
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: would they do something like this? Why would Fox News

477
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: we talk about me? Why would the founder of the

478
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: Proud Boys, Gavin mckinnis that old video about me. Bad

479
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 1: Boys is a terrorist group if you don't now listener

480
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 1: to ever recognized as a terrorist group by Canada. Not here,

481
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: because like, we're just cool with that shit here, white

482
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: supremacist terrorist group. So why me? Why why would a

483
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: congress person come after me? And my own hypothesis is

484
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 1: that they punched down because they secretly believe that they

485
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: themselves are weak and attacking me, attacking people like me,

486
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: is a fight that they can win. And my view

487
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 1: is that it's not a fight that they can win

488
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 1: because they've already lost. They're trying to get power in small,

489
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 1: small ways and false ways, in my opinion, and they're

490
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 1: trying to get money. First of all, they want money,

491
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 1: you know, they want their views, they want their donations,

492
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 1: and that's the entire top of the pyramid for them

493
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: and for me though, I'm a fucking artist, and power

494
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: is something that I've always been developing because I've sought

495
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: to know myself. I've sought to understand who I am

496
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: and why and that extends to myself as a queer person,

497
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: to come to understand myself who I am as a

498
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: queer person. That's not something they'll ever have. So I've

499
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: already fucking won. And same with all the other queer

500
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: people that are under attack, all your other dcer queer

501
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: celebrities out there, we fucking won hopefully well.

502
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 2: And I think part of this is also like the

503
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 2: reason this campaign is happening is because they're trying to

504
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: stop the tide from coming in. And they saw how

505
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 2: far in the tide had already come, and now they're

506
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 2: trying to like dam off the tide and you know,

507
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 2: like probably it's not going to work. But the only

508
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 2: way that it can is if everyone just like sits

509
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 2: here does nothing and let's to just keep building and

510
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 2: building and building more walls. It's it's something that is

511
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 2: within our power to resist. We just have to actually

512
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 2: do it, right. You have to actually organize, you to

513
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 2: talk to the people around you, you have to go

514
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 2: get them to do things to resist this. And if

515
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 2: we do, yeah, we like the things that we've already won,

516
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 2: the things that we are going to win are going

517
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 2: to stick. But if not, like things are going to

518
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 2: get really really bad really quickly. And yeah, and speaking

519
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 2: of things getting very bad, very quickly, Carris some more

520
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 2: ats before we get back to things getting wars. We

521
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 2: are back. Yeah, you've been specifically targeted by a city

522
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 2: in US Congresswoman Nancy Mace, who is the person who

523
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,719
Speaker 2: actually I don't know if we talked about the bathroom

524
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 2: stuff here yet, but she's the sort of person behind

525
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 2: an attempt to get trans people to not be able

526
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 2: to use the bathroom Capitol Hill. She's become a leading

527
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 2: anti trans figure in Congress. Literally every single thing that

528
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 2: she tweets about is about trans women and how they

529
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 2: to be put in men's jails, which is just an

530
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 2: incredibly cynical ploy to make a bunch of people get

531
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 2: horribly raped and killed, which is one of the predominant

532
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 2: things that happens when we get put in ben's prisons.

533
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 2: And she specifically came after years, you want to talk

534
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 2: about how that happened and the latest sort of a

535
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 2: congress woman tweets and a fucking social media company does

536
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 2: their bidding.

537
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, right at the end of twenty twenty four,

538
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: I think it was on December twenty eighth, I was

539
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: docked by a right wing control nazi that has doxed

540
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: multiple friends of mine, the activist friends, artist friends, and

541
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: they pointed out in a tweet how my art was

542
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: on YouTube, specifically my music videos were on YouTube calling

543
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,479
Speaker 1: for violence and how I was an evil trans person,

544
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: and they added like at symbol YouTube and said that

545
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: these videos are in violation of your terms of service?

546
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: Why are they still up? And Nancy May saw that

547
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: because if you look at her Twitter, it's all just

548
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: just stocks and trans people and perpetual like rage bait

549
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: about the queer menace, the trans menace, and so she

550
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,479
Speaker 1: saw that, retweeted and said, YouTube, this squarly violates your

551
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: terms of service. Why haven't you done anything? And then

552
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 1: immediately following that, my videos were taken down, the ones

553
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: that were mentioned in these tweets. And as I said before,

554
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: some one of these videos, what was that of my

555
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: little problem that's been up for seven years?

556
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, for a long time.

557
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. And YouTube terms of service they're very clear, and

558
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: I do my best to stay within YouTube terms of

559
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: service so my work doesn't get taken down. And they

560
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: state that stuff like violence, minimal nudity that is allowed

561
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: within the context of art, within the context of music videos,

562
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: and so my videos, you know, they weren't designed to

563
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: This is from the terms of service. They weren't designed

564
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: to sexually titillate or gratify. That's exactly what it says

565
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: in the in the terms. Now they weren't recreations of

566
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: real life violence, and they weren't real life violence, but

567
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: they were still they were still removed at the behest

568
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: at the easy click press of Nancy Mace.

569
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think there's there's a couple of things

570
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 2: going on here, one of which is, you know, so

571
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: we've seen this with Facebook in the last I guess

572
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 2: when this comes out, it'll be like a week ago.

573
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 2: But you know, Facebook has in stated policies that allow

574
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: you to basically stay slurs against queer people. Allowed you

575
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 2: to call core people mental illnesses and stuff like that

576
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 2: that's very specifically you can only do to queer people.

577
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 2: You can't do it to anyone else. And I think

578
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 2: there's this sort of trend here of I don't know

579
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 2: with Facebook. I wouldn't say that it's like compliance with

580
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 2: the sort of new Trump regime, because like this is

581
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 2: just your Facebook is right, like they did hing the genocide,

582
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 2: like the genocide into Gray too. That was also a

583
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 2: Facebook thing. So they've always just been evil and they

584
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 2: have been sort of looking for the excuse that they

585
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 2: need to like drop the hammer on us. But I

586
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 2: think YouTube, to some extent to what we're seeing right

587
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 2: now is this kind of like mask coming off moment

588
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 2: where people are realizing that with Trump and power, they

589
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: can just drop the hammer on a queer artist because specifically,

590
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 2: like on a trans artist, because now they have this

591
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 2: sort of like backing to do this stuff, and the

592
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 2: right has you know, realized that they can feel like YouTube,

593
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 2: take this video down and they'll do it. And that's

594
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: a really terrifying precedence in a lot of ways. And

595
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 2: also it's very you know, I was like, yeah, obviously,

596
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 2: because a point of a hypocrisy does nothing. But like,

597
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of a more explicit demonstration of

598
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 2: censorship than a member of the government says that something

599
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 2: should be taken down and it's taken down.

600
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: It's like, it's really sound. You know. It makes me

601
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 1: kind of afraid, honestly, because you know, before I was

602
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:27,280
Speaker 1: a victim of a moral panic, and now my work

603
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: is effectively being disappeared with little fanfare, So you know,

604
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 1: what's what's going to happen next? For what Well, we

605
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 1: see just made invisible and unseen. And I know that

606
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: in this country, I have freedom of speech, but that's

607
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: that's really bullshit. We all know that, Like, I'm not

608
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: going to reach many people if I stand on a

609
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: street corner at the park and yell at people. What

610
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 1: matters nowadays is the freedom of reach that these social

611
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: media platforms control, that are themselves controlled now by the

612
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: by the Republican Party. And what happens when our freedom

613
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: of reach is annihilated and then suddenly trans people are

614
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: actually invisible. We're very close to that. I think Fancy

615
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: proved that.

616
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and disappearing people from the mainstream is the first

617
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,280
Speaker 2: step for how you destroy a people. Yeah.

618
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:25,760
Speaker 1: Art, art is perhaps the loudest way a person can speak,

619
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: and I know that's why she came after my art.

620
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 2: There's something just incredibly galling about watching this whole thing happen.

621
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,439
Speaker 2: And then like the next tweet is again a sitting

622
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 2: member of the US government saying that trans women should

623
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 2: be put in Ben's prisons, and it's like, okay, one

624
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 2: of these is considered violence by sort of the media machine,

625
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 2: and one of them isn't.

626
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, does she even actually do work for the people

627
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: of South Carolina? Like I saw. All she does is

628
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: just like start shit with trans people, like she says,

629
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: another lousy politician trying to be an entertainer, And she says,

630
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: the a knockoff product of a bootleg Trump, That's what

631
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: she is. And she's not even good at her fucking politics.

632
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 1: Like she's tried to get this bathroom band for disallowing

633
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 1: trans people to use a bathroom at the US Capitol,

634
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: and her own freaking party kicked the bill out of

635
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 1: the out of the bylaws for this year, so she

636
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: couldn't even get that. And yeah, so I guess she

637
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 1: thinks you can get a get a win by harassing me,

638
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,399
Speaker 1: harassing my art. Yeah, try to get people to come

639
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: after me.

640
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 2: You know, these people are not as powerful as they

641
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 2: want you to believe, right, A lot of their stuff

642
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 2: just fails. But they will only fail if people are

643
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 2: willing to resist and people are willing to stop them.

644
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 2: And that's the thing that's needed in this moment. Is

645
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 2: organization is you know, like is organization, It is action,

646
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 2: It is it is now. It is now the time

647
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 2: to go do whatever political activity thing you've been being like,

648
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 2: should I be organizing a U? Should I be like

649
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,720
Speaker 2: setting up strikes? Should I be doing street demonstrations. It's like, yeah,

650
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 2: it's time, It's time to go, because otherwise, you know,

651
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,240
Speaker 2: and I think this is something that like every trans

652
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 2: person now understands intimately, and I think most people don't.

653
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 2: Which is that right now it's us, But you know,

654
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 2: in two years, assuming we're all still alive, there's a

655
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 2: very good chance that it's going to be you like

656
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 2: showing up on this show because a fucking congress person

657
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 2: is deliberately interviewing to destroy your life. And I would

658
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 2: rather we had stopped this before it got to any

659
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 2: of us. But they're going to come for you too

660
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,760
Speaker 2: unless we stop them. Thank you so much for coming

661
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 2: on the show. And where can people find you and

662
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 2: find your art? And yeah, support you?

663
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for having me. May I really like talking

664
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: with you. It's been very good and Listaris. You can

665
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: find my work on Spotify. You can also check out

666
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: my website at precious Child dot and please sign up

667
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: for my mailing list there as well. That is the

668
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: best and best direct way for me to stay in

669
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,760
Speaker 1: touch with my friends and fans. I'm most a precious

670
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: child on Instagram, on TikTok, i am the last precious child.

671
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: I also will be doing live shows this spring and

672
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: summer in the US, and so follow me on my

673
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: website and on social media to stay up to date

674
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: on that and come say hi in person.

675
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, we will have links to all of that

676
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,839
Speaker 2: in the description, So yeah, go check it out and

677
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 2: resist the creep of fascism.

678
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: That's one thing I want to add about I said

679
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: earlier about personal power and how I have to develop

680
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: plan personal power by getting sick down myself. I want

681
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: to toil you trans people out there, you queer people

682
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 1: and your allies. That first thing is getting to know yourself,

683
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 1: and then next thing is like, fuck these fucking laws,

684
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 1: Fuck these fucking lall makers. Good to know each other

685
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: and strengthen our bonds with each other, because those are

686
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 1: bigger than any type of oppressive laws they may put

687
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 1: upon us. And it's only by the strength that we

688
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: develop with each other, within each other that we will persevere.

689
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: It could happen.

690
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 3: Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more

691
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 3: podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonmedia. Dot

692
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 3: com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,

693
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,879
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to podcasts. We can now find

694
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 3: sources for it could happen here, listed directly in episode descriptions.

695
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening.