Speaker 1: Hey, guys, it's Sammy J. And welcome to this week's episode.
Speaker 1: Not only is this week's episode so special, but it
Speaker 1: is our season finale. Guys, that is crazy to say.
Speaker 1: This week we have NBA All Star and mental health
Speaker 1: advocate Kevin Love. We talk about his basketball career, we
Speaker 1: kick off Mental Health Awareness Months by talking about his
Speaker 1: mental health dream from his anxiety and depression. And we
Speaker 1: also have a special guest appearance coming up in this episode,
Speaker 1: So stay tuned. As always, I cannot wait to hear
Speaker 1: your feedback and I look forward to seeing you next season.
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on my podcast, Kevin. That is
Speaker 1: crazy to say. Thanks for having me. This is uh.
Speaker 1: I'm glad we got all this figured out and now
Speaker 1: we're rolling huh. This is great. I know I like
Speaker 1: your hat. Are you Yankees fan? I am. I have
Speaker 1: been a long time Yankees fan, mostly because of Derek Jeter,
Speaker 1: but also I have an apartment in New York now
Speaker 1: lived in UH had most of my off seasons in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. Summers we typically take to travel around, but
Speaker 1: the last two summers I've been in New York. So
Speaker 1: I'm trying to uh, I guess become a new Yorker
Speaker 1: by wearing this hat. But I've been told that takes
Speaker 1: you at least ten years to actually be able to
Speaker 1: call yourself a New Yorker. So I'm I'm on my way,
Speaker 1: but I'm still um, I guess at a very youthful
Speaker 1: stage in this. So well, my cousins called themselves New
Speaker 1: Yorkers and they've lived here for two years, So you
Speaker 1: can call yourself in you Okay, I'm an honorary New Yorker,
Speaker 1: I think. So wait, so where is your favorite place
Speaker 1: in New York? Like? What area? Because I live here?
Speaker 1: Oh so I'm I really really like downtown. I feel
Speaker 1: like especially in Tribeca or the West Village or Chelsea
Speaker 1: or soho, just because it feels like even Dumbo as well.
Speaker 1: You feel like you're almost you know, in Europe in
Speaker 1: some places, like it just feels like you're in a uh,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot different place than you would be elsewhere,
Speaker 1: especially domestically here in the States. So I just love
Speaker 1: the culture. I love the diversity. I love um you know,
Speaker 1: the people, the food, and lest just goes on and on.
Speaker 1: It's just such a great culture and really strong place
Speaker 1: to feel like you're you're a part of even like
Speaker 1: I said in my second year, having been here, see,
Speaker 1: I want to go to California. You should. That's where
Speaker 1: what's holding you back? Just go? Oh? Trust me, college
Speaker 1: is a few years away. My dad actually went to
Speaker 1: u c l. A amazing there you go. Look at
Speaker 1: this right here. I know we're not doing the whole
Speaker 1: video thing, but my U c l A hat right
Speaker 1: here next to me on my desk, so I always
Speaker 1: keep it close to me. Well, not only are you
Speaker 1: my first NBA all start, but you're my first athlete
Speaker 1: on my podcast. It's very exciting again and I feel honored. Likewise,
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. I'm probably the tallest as well,
Speaker 1: right I'm six Well that's contract hide. I'm probably about
Speaker 1: six nine. Yeah, okay, so I'm five to on a
Speaker 1: good day, Okay, when I'm always true. So do you
Speaker 1: remember what age you were when you reach six ft?
Speaker 1: What age was I when I reach six ft? I
Speaker 1: think I crossed the six ft h barrier probably when
Speaker 1: I was going into seventh grade, so I was like
Speaker 1: twelve or thirteen at the time. I only know that
Speaker 1: because we had our our nationals was in that year
Speaker 1: for basketball, was in Memphis, Tennessee, and they had you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of the tallest players there and some, I
Speaker 1: mean some of these kids. It's crazy when you're thirteen
Speaker 1: or fourty years old, they're hitting their girl spurts and
Speaker 1: people that you know will go through high school and
Speaker 1: be tall and after that they don't play anymore. But
Speaker 1: they're six five six six six seven. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: really really crazy to see across the country how many
Speaker 1: uh you know, how many kids actually reached that size.
Speaker 1: It's wild. How many times a day do people comment
Speaker 1: on your head? A lot? But in the circles I
Speaker 1: run in and and the friends that I have, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm fortunate to not be uh listen. Do sometimes do
Speaker 1: I wish that I had a few extra inches in
Speaker 1: my height to help me with my sport, of course?
Speaker 1: But I actually enjoy being at the uh you know,
Speaker 1: kind of league average or slightly above um, because then
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily stick out like a sword thomb. I
Speaker 1: can still navigate and get my way through public and
Speaker 1: not have to, you know, worry about that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: And I can actually still fit in an airline seat,
Speaker 1: which is nice. So um, yeah, it's lovely. It's the
Speaker 1: little things in life. Right, So that's a that's a huge,
Speaker 1: huge thing for me. Some clothes fit me, some clothes don't.
Speaker 1: But um, you know, luckily I make it work. I
Speaker 1: cut the sleeves off and you know I have a
Speaker 1: short sleeve shirt. What's the big deal? See, it's perfect, perfect.
Speaker 1: So how have you been amid COVID nineteen? Are you
Speaker 1: staying home? Stay chill? Yeah, staying home super chill. If
Speaker 1: you've ever gone on any of my social platforms, you've
Speaker 1: seen my dog Vester. She's like the best thing ever.
Speaker 1: I got her last year, My girlfriend Kay and I
Speaker 1: we got her last year when when I was hurt,
Speaker 1: So I had some time to be at home a
Speaker 1: little bit more spending a little bit more time, uh
Speaker 1: just here at my house like I have been throughout
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen. So uh, you know, been able to develop
Speaker 1: like a it's such a funny thing, like it really
Speaker 1: is man's best friend. Dogs are really man's best friend.
Speaker 1: She's like a little human. She's a she's a vis
Speaker 1: last so she's a Hungarian hunting dog. But they call
Speaker 1: him the quintessential uh velcrow dogs. So she just wants
Speaker 1: to be right next to you, whether she's eating her meal,
Speaker 1: whether she's chewing on her bone, whether she has her toys,
Speaker 1: she's either doing that, playing with you or laying on
Speaker 1: your chest. So it's like an ultimate uh like anxiety
Speaker 1: medicine for me, but also like for for my job.
Speaker 1: I'm sweating making sure that I'm getting exercise. I think
Speaker 1: it's huge doing this type of stuff, like virtually making
Speaker 1: sure that I'm communicating. Uh. Sometimes it's you know, I'm
Speaker 1: sure you guys have dealt with it too, like super
Speaker 1: hard to get a grasp of because even zoom. I
Speaker 1: hadn't zoomed until like three weeks ago, and yeah, my
Speaker 1: schools just google me it's right, And I hadn't done um,
Speaker 1: what was it. I hadn't done Skype in like ten years.
Speaker 1: Who does think it's so I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I
Speaker 1: think it's overrated, right, I mean I was like I
Speaker 1: came through clearly, but I'm like, okay, now I have
Speaker 1: to figure out Skype and these I G lives. I
Speaker 1: keep sending like I want to connect with you. I
Speaker 1: want to connect with you. I want to connect with you.
Speaker 1: I go and I come back and like I'm trying
Speaker 1: to get stress. Stress so much because you're just talking
Speaker 1: to yourself and then there's a delay. The delay is horrible.
Speaker 1: And that's a big thing for me too, is like
Speaker 1: having to turn the camera around now because I'm always
Speaker 1: like shooting outward and now I have to turn it
Speaker 1: in and you actually have to have to talk and
Speaker 1: look at my face and keep this conversation going. So
Speaker 1: it's like a funny time to navigate. Uh. And I'll
Speaker 1: keep using that word. But coming out of this, I
Speaker 1: imagine we'll in the way that we interact will all
Speaker 1: change in a in a very very big way. So
Speaker 1: in that it's going to be interesting to see the
Speaker 1: tools and the and the uh, the things that come
Speaker 1: out of it from from this perspective. Yeah, you mentioned
Speaker 1: working out. How are you doing that? I am very
Speaker 1: fortunate because I I first of all, I love where
Speaker 1: I live. I'm in Cleveland, Ohio, and I invested just
Speaker 1: in stuff to take care of my body at the house,
Speaker 1: like every modality I could possibly have. So I have
Speaker 1: like a a stationary bike, I have a self propelled treadmill.
Speaker 1: I have a versa climber, I have free weights, I
Speaker 1: have bands, Um, you know, I have things where I
Speaker 1: can ice my legs and so on and so forth.
Speaker 1: So like all that stuff, I've just said, Okay, how
Speaker 1: can I get the best out of myself? Even if
Speaker 1: I'm at home or I have an off day, or
Speaker 1: I want to treat my body. I typically wake up
Speaker 1: and kind of go through head to toe and say, Okay,
Speaker 1: what do I what does my body need today in
Speaker 1: order to function at the highest level? Because if I
Speaker 1: if I feel bad in my body, my mind is
Speaker 1: all out of whack. So I have to in the morning,
Speaker 1: I usually take a deep breath in and out and say, Okay,
Speaker 1: what do what do I need today? And it took
Speaker 1: me a long long time to figure that out, but
Speaker 1: I'm thankful that I did, especially for yeah, my sport.
Speaker 1: But I also don't want to be that old man
Speaker 1: that's hunched over when I'm sixty seventy eight years old
Speaker 1: and hardly able to walk. I want to be able
Speaker 1: to play with my my kids and hopefully my grandchildren
Speaker 1: if I'm able to see that old age too. Uh um,
Speaker 1: you know, be able to be very active. And today
Speaker 1: did you meet with the team for the first time?
Speaker 1: Is that what I heard? So we actually did. We
Speaker 1: This is the second time we've done a zoom workout together. No,
Speaker 1: it Actually what was unbelievable was after the first one.
Speaker 1: I I called our head strength coach Derek Millinder afterwards,
Speaker 1: and he was the one who set it up, and
Speaker 1: I said, I'm in and we you know, got about
Speaker 1: uh two thirds of our team on there, and we thought.
Speaker 1: I thought to myself, got how is how is this
Speaker 1: going to work? Like it's you. We're gonna have all
Speaker 1: these people talking, we're gonna try to have music on,
Speaker 1: We're gonna be trying to do our exercises. But I
Speaker 1: called him afterwards and said that was I said, that
Speaker 1: even went better than expected. That was great. So everybody
Speaker 1: was basically saying, let's do it again. So we set
Speaker 1: it up for Tuesdays and are the workout so then
Speaker 1: Thursdays we actually have yoga together as well. So we're
Speaker 1: finding ways to not only, you know, stay connected, but
Speaker 1: to stay in some kind of shape. So if basketball
Speaker 1: does then resume, that we won't be so far behind
Speaker 1: the eight ball. We'll be able to get back into it,
Speaker 1: hopefully as seamless as we can. During this time, How
Speaker 1: is are you able to give like a basketball quarter?
Speaker 1: How are you doing that? No? It's funny you asked
Speaker 1: that too, because I just had a teammate asked me
Speaker 1: today if you know if Kevin have even getting any
Speaker 1: shots up, Like there's no gyms that are open. This
Speaker 1: has probably been the longest I've ever gone without doing
Speaker 1: it since I started playing organized basketball, and that was
Speaker 1: at a very very young age. So you should get
Speaker 1: those hoops that you put on the door. My brother
Speaker 1: has one and just like because that's what he does.
Speaker 1: He just throws at his watch. Oh, by the way,
Speaker 1: I love that. But I'm such a child, like you
Speaker 1: know that. People tell me all the time, show me
Speaker 1: the upside of being mature, and I'll consider it. Or
Speaker 1: I tell people that, uh huh. But it's one of
Speaker 1: those things where I'd have like the little Tykes hoop
Speaker 1: or I'd put that on the top of the door,
Speaker 1: and then it's like Kate walked in front of it.
Speaker 1: I just go and dunk over because that's that's like
Speaker 1: what I did with my dad and did with my
Speaker 1: brother all the time. Because right next to uh actually
Speaker 1: right outside of my room and my sister's room, we
Speaker 1: had like a really really tiny hoop and it was
Speaker 1: broken down and if you hung on the rim, it
Speaker 1: was for sure going to break and it was rusted over.
Speaker 1: But if anybody walked in front of that, I just
Speaker 1: go up and just try and dunk on everybody. That's
Speaker 1: every time I enter my brother's room, I tell you
Speaker 1: he will literally. Actually, I don't mean to brag, but
Speaker 1: I've gone a few really good shots, and we call
Speaker 1: it sweet shooting Sammy. And I think I could. I
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe I could beat you. You'll see how
Speaker 1: you know what on that on that hoop you it
Speaker 1: would be probably a good matchup. But if you try
Speaker 1: and duck on me, I'm really I'm gonna hard value.
Speaker 1: Nobody is safe. Okay. Somebody I've always been curious about
Speaker 1: is when one was the first time you, like, do
Speaker 1: you remember the time when you fell in love with basketball? Really?
Speaker 1: Since I can remember my my dad, he was a UH.
Speaker 1: He went to Morningside High School in Inglewood, California, and
Speaker 1: he was an All American there. He was a two
Speaker 1: time All American at the University of Oregon, and UH
Speaker 1: was the ninth pick in the draft by the Baltimore Boil.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, a hundred years ago, fifty years ago,
Speaker 1: I think it was I mean, it was just it's
Speaker 1: almost fifty or going on fifty years now, so that's
Speaker 1: crazy crazy. So, um, basketball was always in my blood.
Speaker 1: And I think naturally if you have a uh ah
Speaker 1: father figure, who is I mean, he's he's my size,
Speaker 1: if not taller, and um, you know it was really
Speaker 1: a strong man and he put the ball in my
Speaker 1: hand at an early age. They knew, the doctors knew
Speaker 1: I was going to be tall, and I think that
Speaker 1: even got me more excited when I had the presence
Speaker 1: of mine to understand that, hey, I'm I'm gonna be tall.
Speaker 1: I love this game. I can't get enough of basketball. Um,
Speaker 1: it was just something that was always, like I said,
Speaker 1: in my blood. There's there's no other way for me
Speaker 1: to explain it other than it just right away it
Speaker 1: clicked for me. And I just loved having a ball
Speaker 1: in my hand and love shooting and even we have
Speaker 1: to um, well now it's as I moved along in
Speaker 1: my career, was just it was always the competitiveness and
Speaker 1: seeing how you know, how much I could squeeze out
Speaker 1: of this game. And I still feel like I have
Speaker 1: so much to give. That's why I, like I said,
Speaker 1: I invest so much in my body and in self care.
Speaker 1: But I don't know, there's just some for me, there's
Speaker 1: some overall, you know, beauty and a unique brand of storytelling,
Speaker 1: and you just don't know how these games are going
Speaker 1: to play out. And it's been a wild ride and
Speaker 1: I've enjoyed it so much. So let's switch gears for
Speaker 1: a sec. As you know, May is mental Health Awareness month,
Speaker 1: and you have been an incredible activist for mental health
Speaker 1: talking about your anxiety, depression and more. You've been in
Speaker 1: high pressure situations, that's what your job is. You won
Speaker 1: a gold medal in two thousand twelve Olympics. You've wonned
Speaker 1: and be I'll start five times. You've won the NBA
Speaker 1: Championship with Cleveland, and I know you've been very vocal
Speaker 1: on your mental health journey. And I'm curious because you've
Speaker 1: had so much pressure as a play or why was
Speaker 1: it that? What was it just two years ago? What
Speaker 1: do you think it was that made you that pressure
Speaker 1: come too much and made that panic attack happen. I
Speaker 1: think it was a lot of things. And you know,
Speaker 1: I always try to establish and I talked about the
Speaker 1: pillars in my life as well as my core competencies
Speaker 1: and those uh, you know, are very much on the
Speaker 1: same wavelength. So I think it was like friends and family.
Speaker 1: It was those relationships. It was outside of basketball, whether
Speaker 1: it be um, you know, business or other things outside
Speaker 1: that I was working on, um, you know, things in
Speaker 1: my personal life, uh you know, basketball. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a number of pillars that just continued to fall and
Speaker 1: felt like the world was caving in on me at
Speaker 1: a certain point in my life, and my anxiety and
Speaker 1: depression was was something that I had acknowledged individually and
Speaker 1: still tried to curb it or make it seem far away.
Speaker 1: And there was things that I did to do that,
Speaker 1: especially all the way until I was, you know, years old,
Speaker 1: when it really came to a place where it was
Speaker 1: extremely unhealthy and I was, um, you know, trying to
Speaker 1: figure out where I was going to go with my
Speaker 1: life in general and on the basketball court. But basketball
Speaker 1: was really the last pillar to fall. And with that,
Speaker 1: there was we were going into a season where we
Speaker 1: had made a major trade, We had expectations of being
Speaker 1: a championship level team again going to the finals, and
Speaker 1: we started out and I had very very high hopes
Speaker 1: because I then became the second guy on the team,
Speaker 1: the guy that was going to play, uh you know,
Speaker 1: Robin Who then Lebron James Batman. So I I had
Speaker 1: a lot of expectations as well as for myself. So
Speaker 1: we go into the season and we're just really bad.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're not bad, we're to start the season.
Speaker 1: We're really bad. So that was the last one to
Speaker 1: fall for me. And I had that major moment um,
Speaker 1: you know, of a panic attack on the floor, whereas
Speaker 1: in the past if I got y Yeah, no, it's terrifying,
Speaker 1: and I initially thought I was having cardiac arrest, and
Speaker 1: you know, I couldn't catch my breath and my whole
Speaker 1: chest is getting super tight and I'm shaking and I
Speaker 1: end up on the floor. I can't get oxygen so
Speaker 1: extremely extremely and I can't think straight. I'm like looking
Speaker 1: for something that's not ever. Yeah, it gets me worked up,
Speaker 1: even just like talking about it when it happened. I'm
Speaker 1: surprised you've done it so much because people ask you
Speaker 1: about it all the time, and it's impressive that you
Speaker 1: recount it because I'm lucky. I've only had a few.
Speaker 1: But it feels like the world is just caving in,
Speaker 1: and it's the most terrifying feeling I've ever felt, and
Speaker 1: it's a fight or flight response where you can't really fight.
Speaker 1: And so I was trying to get the hell out
Speaker 1: of there and trying to and I didn't want anybody
Speaker 1: to see. I think that was the biggest But I
Speaker 1: was so afraid that people were going to find out that, um,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's like I had something wrong with me,
Speaker 1: or that I was gonna be looked at his weak
Speaker 1: or my teammates couldn't trust me, or my livelihood was
Speaker 1: going to be in jeopardy because, uh, the front my
Speaker 1: front office at the at the Calves, or or ownership
Speaker 1: was going to say, oh, we can't keep this guy
Speaker 1: on the team, or we can't sign this guy. So
Speaker 1: like my my first love, excuse me, my first love
Speaker 1: in basketball, I felt like it was going to be
Speaker 1: taken away from me. And then so I I go
Speaker 1: to you know, after that had happened. I go to
Speaker 1: the Cleveland Clinic here, which is you know, a top
Speaker 1: hospital in the country level, I mean in the world really,
Speaker 1: and everything checked out and I was I thought, well,
Speaker 1: what just happened here? Um, isn't it crazy that it's
Speaker 1: in your head? But it just takes over such a
Speaker 1: physical reaction that really, yeah, and it just it kind
Speaker 1: of lives throughout and and really my anxiety is something
Speaker 1: that I've come to terms with that I'm never going
Speaker 1: to get rid of completely. Um, you know. I hope
Speaker 1: in the future that will continue to have research and
Speaker 1: tools and education that'll that'll uh, you know, further that
Speaker 1: conversation as well as beating down the stigma. But I
Speaker 1: don't think that it'll ever go away from me because
Speaker 1: it just kind of lives, you know, you can't see
Speaker 1: me on here, but uh lives in the pit of
Speaker 1: my stomach. And I've just had to continue to try
Speaker 1: and change my relationship with it. And the biggest thing
Speaker 1: I did for myself was look myself in the mirror
Speaker 1: after that episode and say, Okay, you know, I've I've
Speaker 1: come this far. I need some help. So I started
Speaker 1: my cognitive behavioral therapy and I started. Yeah, I started
Speaker 1: seeing my therapist two days later, which was quick, which
Speaker 1: was really quick, but so many things happened. Actually got
Speaker 1: a lot worse, not a lot worse, but I got
Speaker 1: worse before I got better. And I think telling my
Speaker 1: story and I always say, only by admitting you know
Speaker 1: who you are? Do you get what you want only
Speaker 1: by sharing? And just like playing all my cards and
Speaker 1: living outwardly? Did I then feel like, Okay, I feel
Speaker 1: I feel liberated, I feel more empathetic, I've become a
Speaker 1: better listener. But I also feel and this is I
Speaker 1: know we'll talk about this in terms of COVID nightea.
Speaker 1: I just feel like I'm part of something bigger and
Speaker 1: the community. I didn't realize until I started reading and
Speaker 1: and absorbing people's stories and listening that it's so it's
Speaker 1: like the pandemic that nobody's talking about. It's it's crazy,
Speaker 1: like the numbers have trended in such a really really
Speaker 1: tough u into a tough, tough area for so long,
Speaker 1: and they just keep trending in the wrong direction. And
Speaker 1: so when you got back on that court that right
Speaker 1: after that happened, were you nervous, were you hesitant? I
Speaker 1: was most. I was most scared of that I was
Speaker 1: going to get outed by teammates or you know, people
Speaker 1: that worked at UM on the coaching staff or our
Speaker 1: training staff. I just kind of tried to play it
Speaker 1: off as best as I could, because I felt I
Speaker 1: needed to hide hide it. And while people, you know,
Speaker 1: had some some of my close friends and even my
Speaker 1: teammates at the time had some sort of idea that
Speaker 1: I was really going through it. At that time, they
Speaker 1: didn't know to what extent and to or even have
Speaker 1: any idea of how far it had dated back. So
Speaker 1: there was a lot of things that they didn't know,
Speaker 1: and I was happy that I was able to keep
Speaker 1: it that way until it came a time where I
Speaker 1: was just you know, ready to not you know, live
Speaker 1: in the shadows because that's not the type of life
Speaker 1: I wanted to live. Yeah. You know, for years, professional
Speaker 1: athletes have worked with sports psychologists on the mental aspect
Speaker 1: of the game, but and there's never a stigma with that.
Speaker 1: So I'm always curious why there's a stigma with just therapy,
Speaker 1: and it sounds Yeah, that's such a great question, I
Speaker 1: think because for some reason it's taboo and it then
Speaker 1: comes to, you know, anything outside the realm of sports.
Speaker 1: I I really don't know why that is, but I
Speaker 1: you got to work out your body, so why not
Speaker 1: work out your mind? Yeah, exactly. And you know, if
Speaker 1: I've seen how chronic inflammation has hurt my even my father,
Speaker 1: hurt people close to me, like as they as they
Speaker 1: age or get older, and that can really affect the brain.
Speaker 1: I think there's such a a weird, you know, detachment
Speaker 1: issue that we can't decipher between or except that uh,
Speaker 1: you know, treating Yeah, your body and your mind and
Speaker 1: in the realm of sports is okay, but outside of that,
Speaker 1: you have a you know. Look, it's like one of
Speaker 1: those things that you have a tail or you're different
Speaker 1: or you're weird, or there's something wrong with you. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: you should actually feel empowered to do so and understand
Speaker 1: that if you kill your body, the mind will die.
Speaker 1: And your your mind is so power betting yourself on
Speaker 1: and off the floor and if one is going to
Speaker 1: affect the other, and it's a constant balancing game, but
Speaker 1: you're gonna be so better off for having having done so.
Speaker 1: And I think I think it's part of the reason
Speaker 1: is as at least professional athletes were looked at as
Speaker 1: as superheroes. Oh they can't get hurt, But nobody's immune
Speaker 1: to depression, nobody's immune to anxiety disorder. Your people, you're
Speaker 1: a human exactly exactly. And what we're working on at
Speaker 1: my fund is like early intervention and research in that
Speaker 1: in those terms, because I think the younger demographic and
Speaker 1: that next generation is going to be incredibly key, um
Speaker 1: you know, in order to you know, move us forward.
Speaker 1: And nothing robs us of more human potential than I
Speaker 1: feel like mental illness. It's just and there's such a
Speaker 1: stigma with it. And I'm very lucky because I've had
Speaker 1: anxiety my entire life, Like I don't I can't really
Speaker 1: think of a time I just didn't know what it was.
Speaker 1: So I have just kind of therapy for I don't
Speaker 1: even know how many years, and I don't know where
Speaker 1: I would be without it. And I think there's such
Speaker 1: a stigma with it. I know teammates have talked to
Speaker 1: you about their struggles, but they don't want to come out.
Speaker 1: But why do you think that is and why do
Speaker 1: you think there is such a stigma with it, especially
Speaker 1: mental health in sports, especially in basketball, because I think
Speaker 1: one of the reasons is and it's such a ground
Speaker 1: level way of thinking, but I think it's like giving
Speaker 1: your opponent and edge. It's it's so simple to say that,
Speaker 1: but I think exposing that um uh, you know, you
Speaker 1: almost feel like you're you're out in the wild and
Speaker 1: you're vulnerable, right, Like you you go down on the
Speaker 1: food chain and people are going to know these certain
Speaker 1: things about you. But also a part of it too
Speaker 1: is you know, guys are and men and women are
Speaker 1: looking for contracts or they're looking for the next thing,
Speaker 1: and they feel like if if people know that this
Speaker 1: is a part of them, that um, you know, they're
Speaker 1: going to be looked at differently when it comes time
Speaker 1: to get to the next contract and and and be
Speaker 1: able to to feed their family. But like I said,
Speaker 1: you part I, I don't um unless a lot like
Speaker 1: you know, these you know conversations you know from you
Speaker 1: want to talk about my father's Arragain, it's like they
Speaker 1: grew up thinking that and they were sell braided as
Speaker 1: people that oh, you know, I'm beating my emotions into
Speaker 1: submission and you don't talk about that and that's that's
Speaker 1: just not yeah, man, that's just not something that we do.
Speaker 1: And that was you know I mentioned in my my
Speaker 1: my article that I wrote that it's it's almost like
Speaker 1: it's a learned thing. It's like a playbook growing up.
Speaker 1: It's a total it's like it's like playbook. But um,
Speaker 1: you know, while they're did it take you to write
Speaker 1: that article. It took me. I remember when I decided
Speaker 1: I was going to write it was when I didn't
Speaker 1: want anybody. I just didn't want anybody else to share
Speaker 1: my story or um tell my story. I wanted to
Speaker 1: be in my words and I wanted to expose it
Speaker 1: the way that I wanted wanted to do, and I
Speaker 1: wanted to tell my truth in a certain way. When
Speaker 1: I was, you know, doing my research. Um, after every
Speaker 1: practice and after a game, you know, if you lose, especially,
Speaker 1: you're bombarded with questions and I remember someone asked you
Speaker 1: and you're just like, we sucked. So like, how is
Speaker 1: that play into your anxiety and mental health? Because if
Speaker 1: I don't know, if I could just be bombarded with
Speaker 1: cameras and microphones and being asked about how you just
Speaker 1: played when you're still in the heat of it. Before
Speaker 1: I went to Cleveland and it was there were so
Speaker 1: many expectations and that it was a media frenzy. You know,
Speaker 1: it's a circus a lot of time, and it was
Speaker 1: like a it was like a soap oper it was
Speaker 1: a reality show. So it was great to to understand
Speaker 1: that when I got here, and then I read a book,
Speaker 1: The Four Agreements, where it was I've heard about that
Speaker 1: be impeccable with your word, uh, don't take anything personal,
Speaker 1: don't make assumptions, and then always do your best. And
Speaker 1: just reading that book, it was like, Oh, if everybody
Speaker 1: can do that and see that from all sides and
Speaker 1: you can accept that that likely won't be the case.
Speaker 1: But if people are generally can live by some of
Speaker 1: those rules, like, you're gonna be better off. So I
Speaker 1: just I was, I try to be impeccable with my
Speaker 1: word when I speak to the media, I don't assumptions,
Speaker 1: I don't take I don't take anything personal if they
Speaker 1: talk bad about me, and then I just always try
Speaker 1: to do my best and let let the chips fall.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's a pretty simplistic way of thinking,
Speaker 1: but I think the book has a very clear and
Speaker 1: concise way of making you understand that. I think this
Speaker 1: is a point where we should talk about toxic masculinity
Speaker 1: because there's such a stigma with that. And I'm actually
Speaker 1: really excited because I don't know if you know, but
Speaker 1: this is our Susan finale. Look at this. It just
Speaker 1: I know, And so I thought, I want to change
Speaker 1: things up in my brother, my best friend and he
Speaker 1: has been. He's the basketball expert besides my dad. They
Speaker 1: are both so I thought i'd bring him on just
Speaker 1: to add him into the conversation because he also plays basketball.
Speaker 1: He's done it his entire life, so I think would
Speaker 1: be interesting. Mark. Hello, what an introduction? So that it's
Speaker 1: Sammy J Podcast. I'm honored to be on here, Sammy. Seriously, Kevin,
Speaker 1: I've been a huge fan for a very long time
Speaker 1: and inspiration. So you've talked about basketball your entire life.
Speaker 1: You're not as tall as Kevin, but I know you try.
Speaker 1: Um what have you faced in high school? Because you
Speaker 1: played basketball? He was you were the senior captain, right, yes?
Speaker 1: So uh, Kevin, I know we have a kind of
Speaker 1: different statutes in terms of accomplishments, but it was a
Speaker 1: four year varsity player. I don't know if that intimidates
Speaker 1: you a little bit, but now I do know exactly what, um,
Speaker 1: it feels like to not necessarily be able to I
Speaker 1: feel like you're in a comfortable environment to express your emotions,
Speaker 1: especially in the locker room environment. Did you ever experience
Speaker 1: just the toxicity of not being able to kind of
Speaker 1: say how things were straight up and how you're feeling.
Speaker 1: So I think the biggest thing that I noticed in
Speaker 1: high school in general was okay. So I was never
Speaker 1: I was never like a bully by any means, but
Speaker 1: sometimes I would because I wanted to be accepted so
Speaker 1: bad or because of how I was feeling, I would
Speaker 1: try to be, you know, like the class clown or
Speaker 1: the funny guy. And some of the time it was
Speaker 1: at other people's expense and mark to your point. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, when I was in high school, I was,
Speaker 1: I was you know, I grew up in right outside
Speaker 1: of Portland, Oregon, but I was kind of a I
Speaker 1: was a big fish and a smaller pond. It wasn't
Speaker 1: you know, the smallest uh you know plays Portland, Oregon.
Speaker 1: But I people didn't necessarily like the way I played,
Speaker 1: or like the success we had, or liked where I
Speaker 1: was from. So if I would go out in public,
Speaker 1: I would hear a lot of the same things or
Speaker 1: you know, I felt like I had to, you know,
Speaker 1: never go through life in in smaller spaces and make
Speaker 1: the world smaller for myself. And that was not a
Speaker 1: good feeling, and that, like my social anxiety got so
Speaker 1: bad when I got into uh the NBA, especially like
Speaker 1: my third through seventh or yeah, probably third through seventh
Speaker 1: year that I wouldn't there'd be very few times where
Speaker 1: I go places or go outside. And I've really really
Speaker 1: worked on that, probably some cases literally by yeah, by
Speaker 1: exposure therapy, just like okay, you know what, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna go and know that I'm doing nothing wrong because
Speaker 1: all this time I'm like I'm doing something wrong or
Speaker 1: somebody's taking a picture of me, or or somebody's gonna
Speaker 1: say something to me, or I'm gonna get caught up,
Speaker 1: or it's just exposure therapy. Oh my goodness, the hardest
Speaker 1: thing I've ever had to do. Yeah, well, I think
Speaker 1: a lot of nowadays, you know, and I'm sure it's
Speaker 1: amplified the further you go from high school. I was,
Speaker 1: I was being recruited for college ball but didn't end
Speaker 1: up playing, and then to the NBA. I'm sure that attention,
Speaker 1: that pressure amplifies. And with social media nowadays, there's an
Speaker 1: expectation for middle school hoopers to be posting highlight tapes,
Speaker 1: you know, like you don't have game unless you're really
Speaker 1: showing it on video, and that's just that's just ridiculous thing.
Speaker 1: So being that things are changing for younger players, especially
Speaker 1: with social media. You came into the league. I wrote
Speaker 1: an article about you in UH in a school newspaper
Speaker 1: in fifth grade. It was a couple of weeks after
Speaker 1: you just had a thirty thirty game, UH, breaking the
Speaker 1: record Moses Malone set in Night seven. UM. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm a basketball junkie, like I live and breathe this sport,
Speaker 1: and so seeing that happened when I was really young,
Speaker 1: that was incredible. For those who don't know, U, thirty
Speaker 1: thirty game or a double double is having ten or
Speaker 1: more in any statistics. So ten rebounds, ten points. Kevin
Speaker 1: had thirty rebounds. I think it was thirty one at
Speaker 1: thirty one. Um, So how did it feel to set
Speaker 1: such high standards for yourself at at your third year
Speaker 1: in the league and you're doing and you're having a
Speaker 1: thirty thirty game, Like, like, how does that feel? How
Speaker 1: do you feel about the future going forward? Yeah? I know,
Speaker 1: I felt I felt very good about that because I
Speaker 1: felt I mean, that was the year I had made
Speaker 1: my my first All Star game, and um, I believe
Speaker 1: I was twenty two at the twenty two or twenty
Speaker 1: three at the time, and I felt really good in
Speaker 1: my game and started feeling really comfortable with expanding it
Speaker 1: in a in a game that was that has changed
Speaker 1: even radically since then. Um, it's become so much pace
Speaker 1: in space and shooting the three ball and getting the shots,
Speaker 1: getting more shots up and get you know, scores in
Speaker 1: the one twenties, thirties and forties. Um, but no, I
Speaker 1: felt really really good about where my game was at.
Speaker 1: And even just speaking of anxiety or even melancholy depression
Speaker 1: type feelings, I I read a book called Lincoln's Melancholy
Speaker 1: where Abraham Lincoln his his depression drove him into great things.
Speaker 1: And I think my anxiety to you know, have to
Speaker 1: be in the gym and and you know, living out
Speaker 1: of of In some cases a lot of it was
Speaker 1: was fear. But I channeled that, and thankfully I channeled
Speaker 1: that in such a great way that a lot of
Speaker 1: great things happened in my in my basketball game, and
Speaker 1: as a product of that, the world started opening up.
Speaker 1: But now I don't I'm so much less fear based
Speaker 1: than I used to be. But um, I think that
Speaker 1: was well that drove me into great things. That was
Speaker 1: also something that um was was really self self limiting
Speaker 1: but this, uh, that was really the start of U
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, big things that had happened for me. Um,
Speaker 1: you know that was when that was when in Minnesota,
Speaker 1: that was when you were the number one guy. Like
Speaker 1: that was that I was freaking out. That was a
Speaker 1: big moment. You were coming out with the big outlet. Um.
Speaker 1: But for me, you know, seeing you go from thirty games,
Speaker 1: number one guy in Minnesota, you're playing with westbrookie U
Speaker 1: c l A. You talk about how anxiety may have
Speaker 1: driven some of those performances, but I'm curious, and a
Speaker 1: lot of players are really bad, you know, changing roles
Speaker 1: with playing with different guys. You played with Kyrie Lebron,
Speaker 1: number one guy in Minnesota, you're the veteran guy on Cleveland.
Speaker 1: Now you're with Westbrook at u c l A. How
Speaker 1: have you been able to change your roles so fluidly
Speaker 1: in the league when so many guys get caught up
Speaker 1: with ego or money or whatever it may be, and
Speaker 1: they just can't they just can't mesh with other guys.
Speaker 1: Think with having anxiety as well, that's a change is
Speaker 1: hard enough. Yeah, I think it was just a part
Speaker 1: of my overall growth. I think that the hardest transition
Speaker 1: I did was going from Minnesota to uh than Cleveland
Speaker 1: and becoming the third guy with two, I mean, unbelievable
Speaker 1: general generational type players. So I think the hardest thing
Speaker 1: was Yeah, I think once I looked internally and had
Speaker 1: to pass the mirror tests for myself, it was more, um, okay,
Speaker 1: I had some had some bad habits that I needed
Speaker 1: to then get rid of, and I needed to This
Speaker 1: is the first time I really had to sacrifice part
Speaker 1: of my game for the better of the team, and
Speaker 1: I didn't know what that meant. So the learning curve
Speaker 1: was a little bit um, you know, different than it
Speaker 1: would have been on the team if I was still
Speaker 1: going to be the number one guy or even the
Speaker 1: second guy. So I I really and I really had
Speaker 1: to change my game, like I wasn't really playing inside
Speaker 1: basketball anymore. What I had really that was my bread
Speaker 1: and butter, and my whole game was my whole life exactly.
Speaker 1: My whole life had you know, you play inside out.
Speaker 1: But it took me about just you know, probably of
Speaker 1: playing together six to eight months and then I really
Speaker 1: started to get it until and then in we ended
Speaker 1: up winning the championship and had a couple of All
Speaker 1: Star years after that and the rest is history. But
Speaker 1: that was just for the overall growth process was extremely
Speaker 1: important for me and off the court, I just I
Speaker 1: felt like I had kind of seen everything and in
Speaker 1: a way, uh, you know almost you know, pretty much
Speaker 1: done everything. With so much basketball left to play. You
Speaker 1: made the transition so effortlessly going from rebounding four to
Speaker 1: a stretch for you know, being able to shoot threes.
Speaker 1: Because you look at and what Steph Curry did, and
Speaker 1: you really look at like who influenced basketball, Guys like
Speaker 1: Trey Young, Lonzo Ball, you know, LaMelo, all those younger
Speaker 1: players here with us. They were like, he could shoot
Speaker 1: anywhere and it's almost automatic. That's incredible. So how do
Speaker 1: you think the NBA is going to evolve in the future. Well,
Speaker 1: it's crazy. We looked at a We looked at a
Speaker 1: stat this year where in the last five years, post ups,
Speaker 1: if you just look at post ups, they're down fifty
Speaker 1: percent in the last five years. So bit you know, four,
Speaker 1: four men and five man are stepping out and shooting threes,
Speaker 1: Whereas I grew up watching nineties era basketball, where you know,
Speaker 1: you run down and then yeah, you just throw it
Speaker 1: into the big and then you play off of him,
Speaker 1: whereas that's it's more like, okay, space the floor, you're one,
Speaker 1: two and three, come down, they make a play and
Speaker 1: you know you just kind of see what happens and
Speaker 1: try to get the pace. The pace is crazy, the
Speaker 1: paces what's crazy. But I think, yes, Steph changed the game.
Speaker 1: And then a guy that I grew up love, I
Speaker 1: love to watch him was and he retired last year
Speaker 1: was Dirk and he was seven ft tall, he was European.
Speaker 1: He had that major influence UH in regard, but he
Speaker 1: just stepped out and was that guy playing all everywhere
Speaker 1: on the floor but coming down and transition shooting threes,
Speaker 1: playing off the dribble, step back shooting threes. It was
Speaker 1: just for me that changed the way I looked at
Speaker 1: where the game was going. And unfortunately I had a
Speaker 1: dad who played and he could really shoot it as well.
Speaker 1: But he goes, you gotta watch this type of guy
Speaker 1: because this is you know, he had the foresight to go, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is this is what the future is going to
Speaker 1: be right here, right and because because you look at
Speaker 1: that kind of person and that kind of player, and
Speaker 1: it's just it's like a unicorn and there's so much
Speaker 1: more of that. It's so valuable being Yeah, okay, I
Speaker 1: can talk to you about basketball foreverything like basketball I have,
Speaker 1: I have. I'll leave you with one more question. You're
Speaker 1: a you're depending on the end of this question, you
Speaker 1: were or you are a Game of Thrones fan. Well
Speaker 1: it was until maybe the last season, but there we
Speaker 1: go that that I am a moment of the night's watch.
Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a fan, um, and I know you
Speaker 1: are too. I remember a press conference so vividly of
Speaker 1: you being like I remember, I gotta I gotta go that.
Speaker 1: That was an Atlanta series, I think. But that was funny.
Speaker 1: That's funny. What what do you think of how the
Speaker 1: series are at the end. It was just kind of
Speaker 1: how they you know, people's storylines got cut, everything got
Speaker 1: merged together, like you know, um, sorry spoiler were alert,
Speaker 1: but like brand then end up being the king and like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: are you going to watch the prequel though? Oh for sure,
Speaker 1: because I'm really into that as well. He's been trying
Speaker 1: to get me to watch Game of Thrones, but I
Speaker 1: just haven't committed. What you do is you're hearing from
Speaker 1: the ending, I don't know if I should you have
Speaker 1: to get through the eighth or ninth episode where it's um,
Speaker 1: you know, sir illen and yeah, the whole that's well,
Speaker 1: that's that's that's when you're like, oh, this is a
Speaker 1: different kind of different. Is the thing. I'm scared to
Speaker 1: try a show where the ending is awful because How
Speaker 1: I Met Your Mother scarred me controversial, not really that
Speaker 1: I don't want to watch another show that. See. I
Speaker 1: personally love when it doesn't always end the way you
Speaker 1: wanted to. So it's like kind of like that to
Speaker 1: be taken to all levels of emotion and that like
Speaker 1: just it takes me like stabs me in the side
Speaker 1: and they kill off the mother. It is a hold on,
Speaker 1: hold on. It's an How I Met your Mother. It's
Speaker 1: a running joke in our family about people and how
Speaker 1: we can judge their character based on whether or not
Speaker 1: they like the ending of the how other series finale? Um, Kevin,
Speaker 1: why did you say that? This has been a great
Speaker 1: conversation and all of a sudden we just talked about
Speaker 1: the ending. Sorry, I just I blew it. It's okay,
Speaker 1: nobody's gonna like me, So thank you Mark for coming
Speaker 1: on my podcast. Have any more questions for you, Kevin quickly.
Speaker 1: Very nice to meet you, Kevin. Nice to meet you too, buddy. Kevin,
Speaker 1: You've had such tremendous success and you've also been through
Speaker 1: a lot. What would you tell your younger self? Speak
Speaker 1: your truth? Speak your truth? I do wish I could,
Speaker 1: you know if uh, something that I need to do
Speaker 1: and some like a project that I need to do
Speaker 1: is like write a write something to my younger self,
Speaker 1: Like what what I would tell him because he was
Speaker 1: could be a book. It could be a book. It
Speaker 1: very very well could be a book. I mean it's
Speaker 1: it's I don't know, had I had the presence of
Speaker 1: mind at that age too just either take a breath
Speaker 1: or or know that you know everything's going to be okay,
Speaker 1: because I, you know, I had a crisis of hope
Speaker 1: and I think at at um at that level, that's
Speaker 1: at the root of yeah, all anxiety and all depression.
Speaker 1: I just like I was just like, am I gonna
Speaker 1: feel like this the rest of my life? Like there
Speaker 1: was sometimes where like you know that you know, you
Speaker 1: have that feeling where it's it's you get like this
Speaker 1: dopamine hit and like the clouds, you know they open
Speaker 1: up and the sun hits your face and you feel great.
Speaker 1: But then there's other times where you're like, yeah, and
Speaker 1: I'm sweating and I feel this in the pit of
Speaker 1: my stomach and I don't want to turn the corner
Speaker 1: because I don't know what's going to be around it.
Speaker 1: And you make up this stuff in your mind, and
Speaker 1: your mind goes down this dark path, and sometimes you
Speaker 1: just go to your room and you sit and stare
Speaker 1: at the ceiling and you're in this dark dark space
Speaker 1: for you don't you know, weeks at a time, and
Speaker 1: it's just I wish I could have just told that
Speaker 1: person that, you know, it's it's it's okay, like speak
Speaker 1: your truth. And like I said earlier, like nothing haunts
Speaker 1: us like the things we don't say. It's it's normal.
Speaker 1: I think, Um, what I hope to see in the
Speaker 1: future too is and you've seen it with with uh,
Speaker 1: you know the kids in Parkland, Florida, with their youth
Speaker 1: uprise they were here of of gun violence. Awesome, they're
Speaker 1: so awesome. Sorry, I just like screamed, and you know,
Speaker 1: I know they're they're incredible. Yeah, now they're incredible. And
Speaker 1: then um, in actually in Oregon where I'm from There
Speaker 1: was several kids who went to the state capital and
Speaker 1: state legislature and um pushed for mental health days and
Speaker 1: they get three mental health days, I believe a semester
Speaker 1: or quarter. Um yeah, no, it's super, It's it's very needed.
Speaker 1: I mean I can't tell you how many like fake
Speaker 1: sick days I took because I needed a mental health day.
Speaker 1: But I really hope that um yeah, kids in high
Speaker 1: school or even college undergraduate can see the type of
Speaker 1: power that they have in their words, because I think,
Speaker 1: you know, if if they speak up and they come
Speaker 1: out in numbers because their strengthened, that that people will listen.
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on my podcast, and I know
Speaker 1: you're very busy. And my final question for you is
Speaker 1: something I was talking about with my brother and he
Speaker 1: plays two K and B A two K a lot,
Speaker 1: and I was wondering, do you ever play yourself? This
Speaker 1: is going to do that? Yeah, I mean, if I
Speaker 1: have a choice, I yeah, that's like the narcissist in
Speaker 1: me is to be like, Okay, I'm just gonna see
Speaker 1: how many points and rebounds I can put up. But typically,
Speaker 1: you know, if if if I get to pick like
Speaker 1: teams from a different era or or you know, some
Speaker 1: of the best teams ever, I'll typically pick them and
Speaker 1: then just like try and win at any expense because
Speaker 1: I remember growing up, I had a lot of a
Speaker 1: lot of broke I was a really sore loser until
Speaker 1: I had to like learn to not be so crazy
Speaker 1: in that but still be super competitive. Just not let
Speaker 1: anybody see. Uh. It was a lot of broken systems
Speaker 1: and a lot of broken controllers, and a lot of
Speaker 1: my parents, parents yelling at me because my brother's system
Speaker 1: that he just got was broken. So I typically try
Speaker 1: and give myself the advantage in that. So nothing even
Speaker 1: close to that. I mean I would if I had,
Speaker 1: if I was an athlete in a video game, I
Speaker 1: would totally right. I'm and I feel like, first of all, yeah,
Speaker 1: first of all, when you first get the game and
Speaker 1: you're in it, you're like, Okay, I'm gonna go see
Speaker 1: how how they did me this or how how my
Speaker 1: guys this time? What is my player rating? You know,
Speaker 1: where are my attributes? What you know? What am I wearing?
Speaker 1: How you know it doesn't look like me? What's my swag? Like? Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course why wouldn't irectly? Well, thank you so much?
Speaker 1: For coming on my podcast. It means so much to me,
Speaker 1: and I'm really excited that we get to kick off
Speaker 1: mental health awareness much because I appreciate so much how
Speaker 1: honest you are about it, because I know mental health
Speaker 1: is not talked about enough and it's something I've experienced
Speaker 1: a lot and you have, And just thanks for taking
Speaker 1: the time. Well, thank you for for having me, and
Speaker 1: thank you for having me as part of the finale.
Speaker 1: And I didn't know that this was the case, so
Speaker 1: this is uh, we go, yeah, of course right. Thank
Speaker 1: you guys so much for listening to this week's episode,
Speaker 1: and thank you Kevin so much for taking the time
Speaker 1: to openly talk about mental health. And so mental health
Speaker 1: is such an important topic. I'm hoping that during Mental
Speaker 1: Health and Wary in this month, we can all share
Speaker 1: our stories and openly talk about what we're going through
Speaker 1: to make others feel less alone. Make sure you go
Speaker 1: follow Kevin on Instagram at Kevin Love and please go
Speaker 1: look at this foundation. It's called the Kevin Love Fund
Speaker 1: and you should totally check it out. Don't forget to
Speaker 1: subscribe to our podcast if you haven't already. Also follow
Speaker 1: me on Instagram at it Sammy J. That's I T
Speaker 1: S S A M M Y j A y E.
Speaker 1: And a special shout out to my brother Mark for
Speaker 1: coming on my podcast. I love you, dude, and thank
Speaker 1: you for always being there for me. All Right, you guys,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed
Speaker 1: this episode and I'll see you next sact. Bye,