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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, it's Sammy J. And welcome to this week's episode.

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Speaker 1: Not only is this week's episode so special, but it

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Speaker 1: is our season finale. Guys, that is crazy to say.

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Speaker 1: This week we have NBA All Star and mental health

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Speaker 1: advocate Kevin Love. We talk about his basketball career, we

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Speaker 1: kick off Mental Health Awareness Months by talking about his

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Speaker 1: mental health dream from his anxiety and depression. And we

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Speaker 1: also have a special guest appearance coming up in this episode,

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Speaker 1: So stay tuned. As always, I cannot wait to hear

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Speaker 1: your feedback and I look forward to seeing you next season.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on my podcast, Kevin. That is

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Speaker 1: crazy to say. Thanks for having me. This is uh.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad we got all this figured out and now

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Speaker 1: we're rolling huh. This is great. I know I like

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Speaker 1: your hat. Are you Yankees fan? I am. I have

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Speaker 1: been a long time Yankees fan, mostly because of Derek Jeter,

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Speaker 1: but also I have an apartment in New York now

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Speaker 1: lived in UH had most of my off seasons in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles. Summers we typically take to travel around, but

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Speaker 1: the last two summers I've been in New York. So

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to uh, I guess become a new Yorker

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Speaker 1: by wearing this hat. But I've been told that takes

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Speaker 1: you at least ten years to actually be able to

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Speaker 1: call yourself a New Yorker. So I'm I'm on my way,

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Speaker 1: but I'm still um, I guess at a very youthful

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Speaker 1: stage in this. So well, my cousins called themselves New

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Speaker 1: Yorkers and they've lived here for two years, So you

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Speaker 1: can call yourself in you Okay, I'm an honorary New Yorker,

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Speaker 1: I think. So wait, so where is your favorite place

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Speaker 1: in New York? Like? What area? Because I live here?

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Speaker 1: Oh so I'm I really really like downtown. I feel

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Speaker 1: like especially in Tribeca or the West Village or Chelsea

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Speaker 1: or soho, just because it feels like even Dumbo as well.

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Speaker 1: You feel like you're almost you know, in Europe in

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Speaker 1: some places, like it just feels like you're in a uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, a lot different place than you would be elsewhere,

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Speaker 1: especially domestically here in the States. So I just love

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Speaker 1: the culture. I love the diversity. I love um you know,

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Speaker 1: the people, the food, and lest just goes on and on.

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Speaker 1: It's just such a great culture and really strong place

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Speaker 1: to feel like you're you're a part of even like

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Speaker 1: I said in my second year, having been here, see,

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Speaker 1: I want to go to California. You should. That's where

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Speaker 1: what's holding you back? Just go? Oh? Trust me, college

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Speaker 1: is a few years away. My dad actually went to

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Speaker 1: u c l. A amazing there you go. Look at

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Speaker 1: this right here. I know we're not doing the whole

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Speaker 1: video thing, but my U c l A hat right

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Speaker 1: here next to me on my desk, so I always

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Speaker 1: keep it close to me. Well, not only are you

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Speaker 1: my first NBA all start, but you're my first athlete

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Speaker 1: on my podcast. It's very exciting again and I feel honored. Likewise,

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Speaker 1: thanks for having me. I'm probably the tallest as well,

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Speaker 1: right I'm six Well that's contract hide. I'm probably about

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Speaker 1: six nine. Yeah, okay, so I'm five to on a

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Speaker 1: good day, Okay, when I'm always true. So do you

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Speaker 1: remember what age you were when you reach six ft?

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Speaker 1: What age was I when I reach six ft? I

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Speaker 1: think I crossed the six ft h barrier probably when

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Speaker 1: I was going into seventh grade, so I was like

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Speaker 1: twelve or thirteen at the time. I only know that

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Speaker 1: because we had our our nationals was in that year

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Speaker 1: for basketball, was in Memphis, Tennessee, and they had you know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of the tallest players there and some, I

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Speaker 1: mean some of these kids. It's crazy when you're thirteen

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Speaker 1: or fourty years old, they're hitting their girl spurts and

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Speaker 1: people that you know will go through high school and

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Speaker 1: be tall and after that they don't play anymore. But

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Speaker 1: they're six five six six six seven. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: really really crazy to see across the country how many

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Speaker 1: uh you know, how many kids actually reached that size.

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Speaker 1: It's wild. How many times a day do people comment

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Speaker 1: on your head? A lot? But in the circles I

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Speaker 1: run in and and the friends that I have, I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm fortunate to not be uh listen. Do sometimes do

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Speaker 1: I wish that I had a few extra inches in

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Speaker 1: my height to help me with my sport, of course?

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Speaker 1: But I actually enjoy being at the uh you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of league average or slightly above um, because then

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Speaker 1: I don't necessarily stick out like a sword thomb. I

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Speaker 1: can still navigate and get my way through public and

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Speaker 1: not have to, you know, worry about that sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: And I can actually still fit in an airline seat,

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Speaker 1: which is nice. So um, yeah, it's lovely. It's the

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Speaker 1: little things in life. Right, So that's a that's a huge,

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Speaker 1: huge thing for me. Some clothes fit me, some clothes don't.

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Speaker 1: But um, you know, luckily I make it work. I

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Speaker 1: cut the sleeves off and you know I have a

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Speaker 1: short sleeve shirt. What's the big deal? See, it's perfect, perfect.

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Speaker 1: So how have you been amid COVID nineteen? Are you

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Speaker 1: staying home? Stay chill? Yeah, staying home super chill. If

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Speaker 1: you've ever gone on any of my social platforms, you've

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Speaker 1: seen my dog Vester. She's like the best thing ever.

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Speaker 1: I got her last year, My girlfriend Kay and I

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Speaker 1: we got her last year when when I was hurt,

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Speaker 1: So I had some time to be at home a

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Speaker 1: little bit more spending a little bit more time, uh

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Speaker 1: just here at my house like I have been throughout

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Speaker 1: COVID nineteen. So uh, you know, been able to develop

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Speaker 1: like a it's such a funny thing, like it really

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Speaker 1: is man's best friend. Dogs are really man's best friend.

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Speaker 1: She's like a little human. She's a she's a vis

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Speaker 1: last so she's a Hungarian hunting dog. But they call

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Speaker 1: him the quintessential uh velcrow dogs. So she just wants

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Speaker 1: to be right next to you, whether she's eating her meal,

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Speaker 1: whether she's chewing on her bone, whether she has her toys,

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Speaker 1: she's either doing that, playing with you or laying on

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Speaker 1: your chest. So it's like an ultimate uh like anxiety

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Speaker 1: medicine for me, but also like for for my job.

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Speaker 1: I'm sweating making sure that I'm getting exercise. I think

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Speaker 1: it's huge doing this type of stuff, like virtually making

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Speaker 1: sure that I'm communicating. Uh. Sometimes it's you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you guys have dealt with it too, like super

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Speaker 1: hard to get a grasp of because even zoom. I

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Speaker 1: hadn't zoomed until like three weeks ago, and yeah, my

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Speaker 1: schools just google me it's right, And I hadn't done um,

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Speaker 1: what was it. I hadn't done Skype in like ten years.

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Speaker 1: Who does think it's so I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I

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Speaker 1: think it's overrated, right, I mean I was like I

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Speaker 1: came through clearly, but I'm like, okay, now I have

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Speaker 1: to figure out Skype and these I G lives. I

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Speaker 1: keep sending like I want to connect with you. I

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Speaker 1: want to connect with you. I want to connect with you.

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Speaker 1: I go and I come back and like I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to get stress. Stress so much because you're just talking

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Speaker 1: to yourself and then there's a delay. The delay is horrible.

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Speaker 1: And that's a big thing for me too, is like

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Speaker 1: having to turn the camera around now because I'm always

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Speaker 1: like shooting outward and now I have to turn it

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Speaker 1: in and you actually have to have to talk and

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Speaker 1: look at my face and keep this conversation going. So

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Speaker 1: it's like a funny time to navigate. Uh. And I'll

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Speaker 1: keep using that word. But coming out of this, I

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Speaker 1: imagine we'll in the way that we interact will all

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Speaker 1: change in a in a very very big way. So

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Speaker 1: in that it's going to be interesting to see the

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Speaker 1: tools and the and the uh, the things that come

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Speaker 1: out of it from from this perspective. Yeah, you mentioned

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Speaker 1: working out. How are you doing that? I am very

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Speaker 1: fortunate because I I first of all, I love where

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Speaker 1: I live. I'm in Cleveland, Ohio, and I invested just

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Speaker 1: in stuff to take care of my body at the house,

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Speaker 1: like every modality I could possibly have. So I have

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Speaker 1: like a a stationary bike, I have a self propelled treadmill.

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Speaker 1: I have a versa climber, I have free weights, I

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Speaker 1: have bands, Um, you know, I have things where I

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Speaker 1: can ice my legs and so on and so forth.

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Speaker 1: So like all that stuff, I've just said, Okay, how

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Speaker 1: can I get the best out of myself? Even if

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Speaker 1: I'm at home or I have an off day, or

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Speaker 1: I want to treat my body. I typically wake up

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Speaker 1: and kind of go through head to toe and say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what do I what does my body need today in

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Speaker 1: order to function at the highest level? Because if I

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Speaker 1: if I feel bad in my body, my mind is

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Speaker 1: all out of whack. So I have to in the morning,

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Speaker 1: I usually take a deep breath in and out and say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what do what do I need today? And it took

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Speaker 1: me a long long time to figure that out, but

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Speaker 1: I'm thankful that I did, especially for yeah, my sport.

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Speaker 1: But I also don't want to be that old man

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Speaker 1: that's hunched over when I'm sixty seventy eight years old

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Speaker 1: and hardly able to walk. I want to be able

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Speaker 1: to play with my my kids and hopefully my grandchildren

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Speaker 1: if I'm able to see that old age too. Uh um,

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Speaker 1: you know, be able to be very active. And today

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Speaker 1: did you meet with the team for the first time?

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Speaker 1: Is that what I heard? So we actually did. We

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Speaker 1: This is the second time we've done a zoom workout together. No,

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Speaker 1: it Actually what was unbelievable was after the first one.

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Speaker 1: I I called our head strength coach Derek Millinder afterwards,

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Speaker 1: and he was the one who set it up, and

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Speaker 1: I said, I'm in and we you know, got about

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Speaker 1: uh two thirds of our team on there, and we thought.

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Speaker 1: I thought to myself, got how is how is this

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Speaker 1: going to work? Like it's you. We're gonna have all

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Speaker 1: these people talking, we're gonna try to have music on,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna be trying to do our exercises. But I

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Speaker 1: called him afterwards and said that was I said, that

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Speaker 1: even went better than expected. That was great. So everybody

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Speaker 1: was basically saying, let's do it again. So we set

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Speaker 1: it up for Tuesdays and are the workout so then

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Speaker 1: Thursdays we actually have yoga together as well. So we're

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Speaker 1: finding ways to not only, you know, stay connected, but

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Speaker 1: to stay in some kind of shape. So if basketball

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Speaker 1: does then resume, that we won't be so far behind

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Speaker 1: the eight ball. We'll be able to get back into it,

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Speaker 1: hopefully as seamless as we can. During this time, How

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Speaker 1: is are you able to give like a basketball quarter?

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Speaker 1: How are you doing that? No? It's funny you asked

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Speaker 1: that too, because I just had a teammate asked me

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Speaker 1: today if you know if Kevin have even getting any

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Speaker 1: shots up, Like there's no gyms that are open. This

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Speaker 1: has probably been the longest I've ever gone without doing

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Speaker 1: it since I started playing organized basketball, and that was

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Speaker 1: at a very very young age. So you should get

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Speaker 1: those hoops that you put on the door. My brother

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Speaker 1: has one and just like because that's what he does.

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Speaker 1: He just throws at his watch. Oh, by the way,

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Speaker 1: I love that. But I'm such a child, like you

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Speaker 1: know that. People tell me all the time, show me

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Speaker 1: the upside of being mature, and I'll consider it. Or

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Speaker 1: I tell people that, uh huh. But it's one of

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Speaker 1: those things where I'd have like the little Tykes hoop

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Speaker 1: or I'd put that on the top of the door,

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Speaker 1: and then it's like Kate walked in front of it.

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Speaker 1: I just go and dunk over because that's that's like

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Speaker 1: what I did with my dad and did with my

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Speaker 1: brother all the time. Because right next to uh actually

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Speaker 1: right outside of my room and my sister's room, we

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Speaker 1: had like a really really tiny hoop and it was

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Speaker 1: broken down and if you hung on the rim, it

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Speaker 1: was for sure going to break and it was rusted over.

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Speaker 1: But if anybody walked in front of that, I just

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Speaker 1: go up and just try and dunk on everybody. That's

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Speaker 1: every time I enter my brother's room, I tell you

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Speaker 1: he will literally. Actually, I don't mean to brag, but

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Speaker 1: I've gone a few really good shots, and we call

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Speaker 1: it sweet shooting Sammy. And I think I could. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, maybe I could beat you. You'll see how

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Speaker 1: you know what on that on that hoop you it

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Speaker 1: would be probably a good matchup. But if you try

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Speaker 1: and duck on me, I'm really I'm gonna hard value.

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Speaker 1: Nobody is safe. Okay. Somebody I've always been curious about

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Speaker 1: is when one was the first time you, like, do

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Speaker 1: you remember the time when you fell in love with basketball? Really?

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Speaker 1: Since I can remember my my dad, he was a UH.

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Speaker 1: He went to Morningside High School in Inglewood, California, and

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Speaker 1: he was an All American there. He was a two

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Speaker 1: time All American at the University of Oregon, and UH

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Speaker 1: was the ninth pick in the draft by the Baltimore Boil.

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Speaker 1: It's like, you know, a hundred years ago, fifty years ago,

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Speaker 1: I think it was I mean, it was just it's

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Speaker 1: almost fifty or going on fifty years now, so that's

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Speaker 1: crazy crazy. So, um, basketball was always in my blood.

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Speaker 1: And I think naturally if you have a uh ah

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Speaker 1: father figure, who is I mean, he's he's my size,

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Speaker 1: if not taller, and um, you know it was really

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Speaker 1: a strong man and he put the ball in my

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Speaker 1: hand at an early age. They knew, the doctors knew

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Speaker 1: I was going to be tall, and I think that

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Speaker 1: even got me more excited when I had the presence

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Speaker 1: of mine to understand that, hey, I'm I'm gonna be tall.

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Speaker 1: I love this game. I can't get enough of basketball. Um,

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Speaker 1: it was just something that was always, like I said,

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Speaker 1: in my blood. There's there's no other way for me

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Speaker 1: to explain it other than it just right away it

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Speaker 1: clicked for me. And I just loved having a ball

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Speaker 1: in my hand and love shooting and even we have

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Speaker 1: to um, well now it's as I moved along in

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Speaker 1: my career, was just it was always the competitiveness and

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Speaker 1: seeing how you know, how much I could squeeze out

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Speaker 1: of this game. And I still feel like I have

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Speaker 1: so much to give. That's why I, like I said,

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Speaker 1: I invest so much in my body and in self care.

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Speaker 1: But I don't know, there's just some for me, there's

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Speaker 1: some overall, you know, beauty and a unique brand of storytelling,

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Speaker 1: and you just don't know how these games are going

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Speaker 1: to play out. And it's been a wild ride and

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Speaker 1: I've enjoyed it so much. So let's switch gears for

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Speaker 1: a sec. As you know, May is mental Health Awareness month,

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Speaker 1: and you have been an incredible activist for mental health

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Speaker 1: talking about your anxiety, depression and more. You've been in

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Speaker 1: high pressure situations, that's what your job is. You won

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Speaker 1: a gold medal in two thousand twelve Olympics. You've wonned

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Speaker 1: and be I'll start five times. You've won the NBA

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Speaker 1: Championship with Cleveland, and I know you've been very vocal

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Speaker 1: on your mental health journey. And I'm curious because you've

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Speaker 1: had so much pressure as a play or why was

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Speaker 1: it that? What was it just two years ago? What

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Speaker 1: do you think it was that made you that pressure

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Speaker 1: come too much and made that panic attack happen. I

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Speaker 1: think it was a lot of things. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I always try to establish and I talked about the

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Speaker 1: pillars in my life as well as my core competencies

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Speaker 1: and those uh, you know, are very much on the

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Speaker 1: same wavelength. So I think it was like friends and family.

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Speaker 1: It was those relationships. It was outside of basketball, whether

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Speaker 1: it be um, you know, business or other things outside

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Speaker 1: that I was working on, um, you know, things in

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Speaker 1: my personal life, uh you know, basketball. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: a number of pillars that just continued to fall and

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Speaker 1: felt like the world was caving in on me at

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Speaker 1: a certain point in my life, and my anxiety and

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Speaker 1: depression was was something that I had acknowledged individually and

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Speaker 1: still tried to curb it or make it seem far away.

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Speaker 1: And there was things that I did to do that,

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Speaker 1: especially all the way until I was, you know, years old,

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Speaker 1: when it really came to a place where it was

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Speaker 1: extremely unhealthy and I was, um, you know, trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out where I was going to go with my

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Speaker 1: life in general and on the basketball court. But basketball

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Speaker 1: was really the last pillar to fall. And with that,

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Speaker 1: there was we were going into a season where we

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Speaker 1: had made a major trade, We had expectations of being

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Speaker 1: a championship level team again going to the finals, and

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Speaker 1: we started out and I had very very high hopes

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Speaker 1: because I then became the second guy on the team,

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Speaker 1: the guy that was going to play, uh you know,

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Speaker 1: Robin Who then Lebron James Batman. So I I had

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Speaker 1: a lot of expectations as well as for myself. So

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Speaker 1: we go into the season and we're just really bad.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're not bad, we're to start the season.

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Speaker 1: We're really bad. So that was the last one to

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Speaker 1: fall for me. And I had that major moment um,

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Speaker 1: you know, of a panic attack on the floor, whereas

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Speaker 1: in the past if I got y Yeah, no, it's terrifying,

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Speaker 1: and I initially thought I was having cardiac arrest, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I couldn't catch my breath and my whole

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Speaker 1: chest is getting super tight and I'm shaking and I

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Speaker 1: end up on the floor. I can't get oxygen so

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Speaker 1: extremely extremely and I can't think straight. I'm like looking

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Speaker 1: for something that's not ever. Yeah, it gets me worked up,

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Speaker 1: even just like talking about it when it happened. I'm

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Speaker 1: surprised you've done it so much because people ask you

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Speaker 1: about it all the time, and it's impressive that you

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Speaker 1: recount it because I'm lucky. I've only had a few.

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Speaker 1: But it feels like the world is just caving in,

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Speaker 1: and it's the most terrifying feeling I've ever felt, and

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Speaker 1: it's a fight or flight response where you can't really fight.

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Speaker 1: And so I was trying to get the hell out

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Speaker 1: of there and trying to and I didn't want anybody

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Speaker 1: to see. I think that was the biggest But I

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Speaker 1: was so afraid that people were going to find out that, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's like I had something wrong with me,

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Speaker 1: or that I was gonna be looked at his weak

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Speaker 1: or my teammates couldn't trust me, or my livelihood was

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Speaker 1: going to be in jeopardy because, uh, the front my

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Speaker 1: front office at the at the Calves, or or ownership

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Speaker 1: was going to say, oh, we can't keep this guy

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Speaker 1: on the team, or we can't sign this guy. So

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Speaker 1: like my my first love, excuse me, my first love

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Speaker 1: in basketball, I felt like it was going to be

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Speaker 1: taken away from me. And then so I I go

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Speaker 1: to you know, after that had happened. I go to

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Speaker 1: the Cleveland Clinic here, which is you know, a top

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Speaker 1: hospital in the country level, I mean in the world really,

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Speaker 1: and everything checked out and I was I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: what just happened here? Um, isn't it crazy that it's

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Speaker 1: in your head? But it just takes over such a

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Speaker 1: physical reaction that really, yeah, and it just it kind

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Speaker 1: of lives throughout and and really my anxiety is something

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Speaker 1: that I've come to terms with that I'm never going

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Speaker 1: to get rid of completely. Um, you know. I hope

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Speaker 1: in the future that will continue to have research and

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Speaker 1: tools and education that'll that'll uh, you know, further that

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Speaker 1: conversation as well as beating down the stigma. But I

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Speaker 1: don't think that it'll ever go away from me because

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Speaker 1: it just kind of lives, you know, you can't see

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Speaker 1: me on here, but uh lives in the pit of

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Speaker 1: my stomach. And I've just had to continue to try

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Speaker 1: and change my relationship with it. And the biggest thing

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Speaker 1: I did for myself was look myself in the mirror

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Speaker 1: after that episode and say, Okay, you know, I've I've

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Speaker 1: come this far. I need some help. So I started

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Speaker 1: my cognitive behavioral therapy and I started. Yeah, I started

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Speaker 1: seeing my therapist two days later, which was quick, which

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Speaker 1: was really quick, but so many things happened. Actually got

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Speaker 1: a lot worse, not a lot worse, but I got

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Speaker 1: worse before I got better. And I think telling my

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Speaker 1: story and I always say, only by admitting you know

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Speaker 1: who you are? Do you get what you want only

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Speaker 1: by sharing? And just like playing all my cards and

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Speaker 1: living outwardly? Did I then feel like, Okay, I feel

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Speaker 1: I feel liberated, I feel more empathetic, I've become a

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Speaker 1: better listener. But I also feel and this is I

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Speaker 1: know we'll talk about this in terms of COVID nightea.

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Speaker 1: I just feel like I'm part of something bigger and

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Speaker 1: the community. I didn't realize until I started reading and

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Speaker 1: and absorbing people's stories and listening that it's so it's

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Speaker 1: like the pandemic that nobody's talking about. It's it's crazy,

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Speaker 1: like the numbers have trended in such a really really

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Speaker 1: tough u into a tough, tough area for so long,

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Speaker 1: and they just keep trending in the wrong direction. And

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Speaker 1: so when you got back on that court that right

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Speaker 1: after that happened, were you nervous, were you hesitant? I

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Speaker 1: was most. I was most scared of that I was

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Speaker 1: going to get outed by teammates or you know, people

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Speaker 1: that worked at UM on the coaching staff or our

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Speaker 1: training staff. I just kind of tried to play it

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Speaker 1: off as best as I could, because I felt I

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Speaker 1: needed to hide hide it. And while people, you know,

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Speaker 1: had some some of my close friends and even my

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Speaker 1: teammates at the time had some sort of idea that

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Speaker 1: I was really going through it. At that time, they

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Speaker 1: didn't know to what extent and to or even have

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00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,359
Speaker 1: any idea of how far it had dated back. So

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of things that they didn't know,

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Speaker 1: and I was happy that I was able to keep

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Speaker 1: it that way until it came a time where I

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Speaker 1: was just you know, ready to not you know, live

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Speaker 1: in the shadows because that's not the type of life

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Speaker 1: I wanted to live. Yeah. You know, for years, professional

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Speaker 1: athletes have worked with sports psychologists on the mental aspect

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Speaker 1: of the game, but and there's never a stigma with that.

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Speaker 1: So I'm always curious why there's a stigma with just therapy,

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Speaker 1: and it sounds Yeah, that's such a great question, I

398
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Speaker 1: think because for some reason it's taboo and it then

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Speaker 1: comes to, you know, anything outside the realm of sports.

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Speaker 1: I I really don't know why that is, but I

401
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:54,359
Speaker 1: you got to work out your body, so why not

402
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Speaker 1: work out your mind? Yeah, exactly. And you know, if

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Speaker 1: I've seen how chronic inflammation has hurt my even my father,

404
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 1: hurt people close to me, like as they as they

405
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Speaker 1: age or get older, and that can really affect the brain.

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Speaker 1: I think there's such a a weird, you know, detachment

407
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:18,439
Speaker 1: issue that we can't decipher between or except that uh,

408
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 1: you know, treating Yeah, your body and your mind and

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00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 1: in the realm of sports is okay, but outside of that,

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00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 1: you have a you know. Look, it's like one of

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00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,119
Speaker 1: those things that you have a tail or you're different

412
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Speaker 1: or you're weird, or there's something wrong with you. It's like, no,

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Speaker 1: you should actually feel empowered to do so and understand

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Speaker 1: that if you kill your body, the mind will die.

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Speaker 1: And your your mind is so power betting yourself on

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Speaker 1: and off the floor and if one is going to

417
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Speaker 1: affect the other, and it's a constant balancing game, but

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Speaker 1: you're gonna be so better off for having having done so.

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Speaker 1: And I think I think it's part of the reason

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00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 1: is as at least professional athletes were looked at as

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Speaker 1: as superheroes. Oh they can't get hurt, But nobody's immune

422
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 1: to depression, nobody's immune to anxiety disorder. Your people, you're

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Speaker 1: a human exactly exactly. And what we're working on at

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00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 1: my fund is like early intervention and research in that

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00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,639
Speaker 1: in those terms, because I think the younger demographic and

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Speaker 1: that next generation is going to be incredibly key, um

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Speaker 1: you know, in order to you know, move us forward.

428
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:27,199
Speaker 1: And nothing robs us of more human potential than I

429
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 1: feel like mental illness. It's just and there's such a

430
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,199
Speaker 1: stigma with it. And I'm very lucky because I've had

431
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 1: anxiety my entire life, Like I don't I can't really

432
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 1: think of a time I just didn't know what it was.

433
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 1: So I have just kind of therapy for I don't

434
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 1: even know how many years, and I don't know where

435
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: I would be without it. And I think there's such

436
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,359
Speaker 1: a stigma with it. I know teammates have talked to

437
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 1: you about their struggles, but they don't want to come out.

438
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,919
Speaker 1: But why do you think that is and why do

439
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: you think there is such a stigma with it, especially

440
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 1: mental health in sports, especially in basketball, because I think

441
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,680
Speaker 1: one of the reasons is and it's such a ground

442
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: level way of thinking, but I think it's like giving

443
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,679
Speaker 1: your opponent and edge. It's it's so simple to say that,

444
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: but I think exposing that um uh, you know, you

445
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 1: almost feel like you're you're out in the wild and

446
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 1: you're vulnerable, right, Like you you go down on the

447
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 1: food chain and people are going to know these certain

448
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 1: things about you. But also a part of it too

449
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,199
Speaker 1: is you know, guys are and men and women are

450
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 1: looking for contracts or they're looking for the next thing,

451
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: and they feel like if if people know that this

452
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: is a part of them, that um, you know, they're

453
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 1: going to be looked at differently when it comes time

454
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: to get to the next contract and and and be

455
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: able to to feed their family. But like I said,

456
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 1: you part I, I don't um unless a lot like

457
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: you know, these you know conversations you know from you

458
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,360
Speaker 1: want to talk about my father's Arragain, it's like they

459
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 1: grew up thinking that and they were sell braided as

460
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: people that oh, you know, I'm beating my emotions into

461
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: submission and you don't talk about that and that's that's

462
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: just not yeah, man, that's just not something that we do.

463
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 1: And that was you know I mentioned in my my

464
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 1: my article that I wrote that it's it's almost like

465
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,640
Speaker 1: it's a learned thing. It's like a playbook growing up.

466
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: It's a total it's like it's like playbook. But um,

467
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 1: you know, while they're did it take you to write

468
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 1: that article. It took me. I remember when I decided

469
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 1: I was going to write it was when I didn't

470
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 1: want anybody. I just didn't want anybody else to share

471
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 1: my story or um tell my story. I wanted to

472
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: be in my words and I wanted to expose it

473
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,439
Speaker 1: the way that I wanted wanted to do, and I

474
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: wanted to tell my truth in a certain way. When

475
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 1: I was, you know, doing my research. Um, after every

476
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 1: practice and after a game, you know, if you lose, especially,

477
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 1: you're bombarded with questions and I remember someone asked you

478
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 1: and you're just like, we sucked. So like, how is

479
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 1: that play into your anxiety and mental health? Because if

480
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, if I could just be bombarded with

481
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 1: cameras and microphones and being asked about how you just

482
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 1: played when you're still in the heat of it. Before

483
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: I went to Cleveland and it was there were so

484
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: many expectations and that it was a media frenzy. You know,

485
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,199
Speaker 1: it's a circus a lot of time, and it was

486
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 1: like a it was like a soap oper it was

487
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: a reality show. So it was great to to understand

488
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: that when I got here, and then I read a book,

489
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: The Four Agreements, where it was I've heard about that

490
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: be impeccable with your word, uh, don't take anything personal,

491
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: don't make assumptions, and then always do your best. And

492
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 1: just reading that book, it was like, Oh, if everybody

493
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 1: can do that and see that from all sides and

494
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: you can accept that that likely won't be the case.

495
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: But if people are generally can live by some of

496
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: those rules, like, you're gonna be better off. So I

497
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 1: just I was, I try to be impeccable with my

498
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: word when I speak to the media, I don't assumptions,

499
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 1: I don't take I don't take anything personal if they

500
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: talk bad about me, and then I just always try

501
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: to do my best and let let the chips fall.

502
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's a pretty simplistic way of thinking,

503
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: but I think the book has a very clear and

504
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: concise way of making you understand that. I think this

505
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: is a point where we should talk about toxic masculinity

506
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: because there's such a stigma with that. And I'm actually

507
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: really excited because I don't know if you know, but

508
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 1: this is our Susan finale. Look at this. It just

509
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: I know, And so I thought, I want to change

510
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: things up in my brother, my best friend and he

511
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,640
Speaker 1: has been. He's the basketball expert besides my dad. They

512
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 1: are both so I thought i'd bring him on just

513
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 1: to add him into the conversation because he also plays basketball.

514
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: He's done it his entire life, so I think would

515
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 1: be interesting. Mark. Hello, what an introduction? So that it's

516
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 1: Sammy J Podcast. I'm honored to be on here, Sammy. Seriously, Kevin,

517
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: I've been a huge fan for a very long time

518
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: and inspiration. So you've talked about basketball your entire life.

519
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 1: You're not as tall as Kevin, but I know you try.

520
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 1: Um what have you faced in high school? Because you

521
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: played basketball? He was you were the senior captain, right, yes?

522
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 1: So uh, Kevin, I know we have a kind of

523
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,199
Speaker 1: different statutes in terms of accomplishments, but it was a

524
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: four year varsity player. I don't know if that intimidates

525
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: you a little bit, but now I do know exactly what, um,

526
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:38,199
Speaker 1: it feels like to not necessarily be able to I

527
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: feel like you're in a comfortable environment to express your emotions,

528
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: especially in the locker room environment. Did you ever experience

529
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 1: just the toxicity of not being able to kind of

530
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 1: say how things were straight up and how you're feeling.

531
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: So I think the biggest thing that I noticed in

532
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 1: high school in general was okay. So I was never

533
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: I was never like a bully by any means, but

534
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: sometimes I would because I wanted to be accepted so

535
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: bad or because of how I was feeling, I would

536
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: try to be, you know, like the class clown or

537
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 1: the funny guy. And some of the time it was

538
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 1: at other people's expense and mark to your point. Um,

539
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: you know, when I was in high school, I was,

540
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: I was you know, I grew up in right outside

541
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: of Portland, Oregon, but I was kind of a I

542
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: was a big fish and a smaller pond. It wasn't

543
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: you know, the smallest uh you know plays Portland, Oregon.

544
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: But I people didn't necessarily like the way I played,

545
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: or like the success we had, or liked where I

546
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: was from. So if I would go out in public,

547
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: I would hear a lot of the same things or

548
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: you know, I felt like I had to, you know,

549
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: never go through life in in smaller spaces and make

550
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: the world smaller for myself. And that was not a

551
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: good feeling, and that, like my social anxiety got so

552
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: bad when I got into uh the NBA, especially like

553
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: my third through seventh or yeah, probably third through seventh

554
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: year that I wouldn't there'd be very few times where

555
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: I go places or go outside. And I've really really

556
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: worked on that, probably some cases literally by yeah, by

557
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: exposure therapy, just like okay, you know what, I'm just

558
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: gonna go and know that I'm doing nothing wrong because

559
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: all this time I'm like I'm doing something wrong or

560
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: somebody's taking a picture of me, or or somebody's gonna

561
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: say something to me, or I'm gonna get caught up,

562
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: or it's just exposure therapy. Oh my goodness, the hardest

563
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: thing I've ever had to do. Yeah, well, I think

564
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: a lot of nowadays, you know, and I'm sure it's

565
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: amplified the further you go from high school. I was,

566
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: I was being recruited for college ball but didn't end

567
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: up playing, and then to the NBA. I'm sure that attention,

568
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: that pressure amplifies. And with social media nowadays, there's an

569
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: expectation for middle school hoopers to be posting highlight tapes,

570
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: you know, like you don't have game unless you're really

571
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,719
Speaker 1: showing it on video, and that's just that's just ridiculous thing.

572
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: So being that things are changing for younger players, especially

573
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: with social media. You came into the league. I wrote

574
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: an article about you in UH in a school newspaper

575
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: in fifth grade. It was a couple of weeks after

576
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: you just had a thirty thirty game, UH, breaking the

577
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: record Moses Malone set in Night seven. UM. I'm like,

578
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: I'm a basketball junkie, like I live and breathe this sport,

579
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: and so seeing that happened when I was really young,

580
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: that was incredible. For those who don't know, U, thirty

581
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: thirty game or a double double is having ten or

582
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: more in any statistics. So ten rebounds, ten points. Kevin

583
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: had thirty rebounds. I think it was thirty one at

584
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: thirty one. Um, So how did it feel to set

585
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: such high standards for yourself at at your third year

586
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: in the league and you're doing and you're having a

587
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: thirty thirty game, Like, like, how does that feel? How

588
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: do you feel about the future going forward? Yeah? I know,

589
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: I felt I felt very good about that because I

590
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: felt I mean, that was the year I had made

591
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: my my first All Star game, and um, I believe

592
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: I was twenty two at the twenty two or twenty

593
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: three at the time, and I felt really good in

594
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: my game and started feeling really comfortable with expanding it

595
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: in a in a game that was that has changed

596
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: even radically since then. Um, it's become so much pace

597
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: in space and shooting the three ball and getting the shots,

598
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: getting more shots up and get you know, scores in

599
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: the one twenties, thirties and forties. Um, but no, I

600
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: felt really really good about where my game was at.

601
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: And even just speaking of anxiety or even melancholy depression

602
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: type feelings, I I read a book called Lincoln's Melancholy

603
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: where Abraham Lincoln his his depression drove him into great things.

604
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: And I think my anxiety to you know, have to

605
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: be in the gym and and you know, living out

606
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: of of In some cases a lot of it was

607
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 1: was fear. But I channeled that, and thankfully I channeled

608
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: that in such a great way that a lot of

609
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: great things happened in my in my basketball game, and

610
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: as a product of that, the world started opening up.

611
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,959
Speaker 1: But now I don't I'm so much less fear based

612
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: than I used to be. But um, I think that

613
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: was well that drove me into great things. That was

614
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: also something that um was was really self self limiting

615
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: but this, uh, that was really the start of U

616
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, big things that had happened for me. Um,

617
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: you know that was when that was when in Minnesota,

618
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: that was when you were the number one guy. Like

619
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: that was that I was freaking out. That was a

620
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: big moment. You were coming out with the big outlet. Um.

621
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: But for me, you know, seeing you go from thirty games,

622
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: number one guy in Minnesota, you're playing with westbrookie U

623
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: c l A. You talk about how anxiety may have

624
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: driven some of those performances, but I'm curious, and a

625
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: lot of players are really bad, you know, changing roles

626
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: with playing with different guys. You played with Kyrie Lebron,

627
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: number one guy in Minnesota, you're the veteran guy on Cleveland.

628
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: Now you're with Westbrook at u c l A. How

629
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: have you been able to change your roles so fluidly

630
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: in the league when so many guys get caught up

631
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: with ego or money or whatever it may be, and

632
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: they just can't they just can't mesh with other guys.

633
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: Think with having anxiety as well, that's a change is

634
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: hard enough. Yeah, I think it was just a part

635
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: of my overall growth. I think that the hardest transition

636
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: I did was going from Minnesota to uh than Cleveland

637
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: and becoming the third guy with two, I mean, unbelievable

638
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: general generational type players. So I think the hardest thing

639
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: was Yeah, I think once I looked internally and had

640
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: to pass the mirror tests for myself, it was more, um, okay,

641
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: I had some had some bad habits that I needed

642
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: to then get rid of, and I needed to This

643
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: is the first time I really had to sacrifice part

644
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 1: of my game for the better of the team, and

645
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: I didn't know what that meant. So the learning curve

646
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: was a little bit um, you know, different than it

647
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: would have been on the team if I was still

648
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: going to be the number one guy or even the

649
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: second guy. So I I really and I really had

650
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: to change my game, like I wasn't really playing inside

651
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: basketball anymore. What I had really that was my bread

652
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: and butter, and my whole game was my whole life exactly.

653
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,359
Speaker 1: My whole life had you know, you play inside out.

654
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 1: But it took me about just you know, probably of

655
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: playing together six to eight months and then I really

656
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 1: started to get it until and then in we ended

657
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: up winning the championship and had a couple of All

658
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: Star years after that and the rest is history. But

659
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: that was just for the overall growth process was extremely

660
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 1: important for me and off the court, I just I

661
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: felt like I had kind of seen everything and in

662
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: a way, uh, you know almost you know, pretty much

663
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: done everything. With so much basketball left to play. You

664
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 1: made the transition so effortlessly going from rebounding four to

665
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: a stretch for you know, being able to shoot threes.

666
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: Because you look at and what Steph Curry did, and

667
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: you really look at like who influenced basketball, Guys like

668
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: Trey Young, Lonzo Ball, you know, LaMelo, all those younger

669
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 1: players here with us. They were like, he could shoot

670
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: anywhere and it's almost automatic. That's incredible. So how do

671
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,439
Speaker 1: you think the NBA is going to evolve in the future. Well,

672
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: it's crazy. We looked at a We looked at a

673
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,479
Speaker 1: stat this year where in the last five years, post ups,

674
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 1: if you just look at post ups, they're down fifty

675
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,760
Speaker 1: percent in the last five years. So bit you know, four,

676
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: four men and five man are stepping out and shooting threes,

677
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: Whereas I grew up watching nineties era basketball, where you know,

678
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: you run down and then yeah, you just throw it

679
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,399
Speaker 1: into the big and then you play off of him,

680
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: whereas that's it's more like, okay, space the floor, you're one,

681
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: two and three, come down, they make a play and

682
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: you know you just kind of see what happens and

683
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: try to get the pace. The pace is crazy, the

684
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: paces what's crazy. But I think, yes, Steph changed the game.

685
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 1: And then a guy that I grew up love, I

686
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 1: love to watch him was and he retired last year

687
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: was Dirk and he was seven ft tall, he was European.

688
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: He had that major influence UH in regard, but he

689
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: just stepped out and was that guy playing all everywhere

690
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: on the floor but coming down and transition shooting threes,

691
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: playing off the dribble, step back shooting threes. It was

692
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: just for me that changed the way I looked at

693
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 1: where the game was going. And unfortunately I had a

694
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: dad who played and he could really shoot it as well.

695
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 1: But he goes, you gotta watch this type of guy

696
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: because this is you know, he had the foresight to go, Okay,

697
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: this is this is what the future is going to

698
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 1: be right here, right and because because you look at

699
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 1: that kind of person and that kind of player, and

700
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: it's just it's like a unicorn and there's so much

701
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 1: more of that. It's so valuable being Yeah, okay, I

702
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,879
Speaker 1: can talk to you about basketball foreverything like basketball I have,

703
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,919
Speaker 1: I have. I'll leave you with one more question. You're

704
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: a you're depending on the end of this question, you

705
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: were or you are a Game of Thrones fan. Well

706
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: it was until maybe the last season, but there we

707
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: go that that I am a moment of the night's watch.

708
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a fan, um, and I know you

709
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 1: are too. I remember a press conference so vividly of

710
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 1: you being like I remember, I gotta I gotta go that.

711
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: That was an Atlanta series, I think. But that was funny.

712
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 1: That's funny. What what do you think of how the

713
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: series are at the end. It was just kind of

714
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: how they you know, people's storylines got cut, everything got

715
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 1: merged together, like you know, um, sorry spoiler were alert,

716
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: but like brand then end up being the king and like, yeah, yeah,

717
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: are you going to watch the prequel though? Oh for sure,

718
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: because I'm really into that as well. He's been trying

719
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: to get me to watch Game of Thrones, but I

720
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: just haven't committed. What you do is you're hearing from

721
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 1: the ending, I don't know if I should you have

722
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 1: to get through the eighth or ninth episode where it's um,

723
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 1: you know, sir illen and yeah, the whole that's well,

724
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: that's that's that's when you're like, oh, this is a

725
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: different kind of different. Is the thing. I'm scared to

726
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: try a show where the ending is awful because How

727
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: I Met Your Mother scarred me controversial, not really that

728
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: I don't want to watch another show that. See. I

729
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: personally love when it doesn't always end the way you

730
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: wanted to. So it's like kind of like that to

731
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: be taken to all levels of emotion and that like

732
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: just it takes me like stabs me in the side

733
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 1: and they kill off the mother. It is a hold on,

734
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: hold on. It's an How I Met your Mother. It's

735
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: a running joke in our family about people and how

736
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: we can judge their character based on whether or not

737
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: they like the ending of the how other series finale? Um, Kevin,

738
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: why did you say that? This has been a great

739
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 1: conversation and all of a sudden we just talked about

740
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: the ending. Sorry, I just I blew it. It's okay,

741
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: nobody's gonna like me, So thank you Mark for coming

742
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,720
Speaker 1: on my podcast. Have any more questions for you, Kevin quickly.

743
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: Very nice to meet you, Kevin. Nice to meet you too, buddy. Kevin,

744
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: You've had such tremendous success and you've also been through

745
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: a lot. What would you tell your younger self? Speak

746
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: your truth? Speak your truth? I do wish I could,

747
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: you know if uh, something that I need to do

748
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,839
Speaker 1: and some like a project that I need to do

749
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: is like write a write something to my younger self,

750
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 1: Like what what I would tell him because he was

751
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: could be a book. It could be a book. It

752
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: very very well could be a book. I mean it's

753
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 1: it's I don't know, had I had the presence of

754
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: mind at that age too just either take a breath

755
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,760
Speaker 1: or or know that you know everything's going to be okay,

756
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: because I, you know, I had a crisis of hope

757
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:51,959
Speaker 1: and I think at at um at that level, that's

758
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: at the root of yeah, all anxiety and all depression.

759
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: I just like I was just like, am I gonna

760
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 1: feel like this the rest of my life? Like there

761
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 1: was sometimes where like you know that you know, you

762
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: have that feeling where it's it's you get like this

763
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,479
Speaker 1: dopamine hit and like the clouds, you know they open

764
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: up and the sun hits your face and you feel great.

765
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: But then there's other times where you're like, yeah, and

766
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: I'm sweating and I feel this in the pit of

767
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 1: my stomach and I don't want to turn the corner

768
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: because I don't know what's going to be around it.

769
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: And you make up this stuff in your mind, and

770
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 1: your mind goes down this dark path, and sometimes you

771
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,399
Speaker 1: just go to your room and you sit and stare

772
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: at the ceiling and you're in this dark dark space

773
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: for you don't you know, weeks at a time, and

774
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 1: it's just I wish I could have just told that

775
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 1: person that, you know, it's it's it's okay, like speak

776
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: your truth. And like I said earlier, like nothing haunts

777
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: us like the things we don't say. It's it's normal.

778
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 1: I think, Um, what I hope to see in the

779
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: future too is and you've seen it with with uh,

780
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: you know the kids in Parkland, Florida, with their youth

781
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: uprise they were here of of gun violence. Awesome, they're

782
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: so awesome. Sorry, I just like screamed, and you know,

783
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 1: I know they're they're incredible. Yeah, now they're incredible. And

784
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: then um, in actually in Oregon where I'm from There

785
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 1: was several kids who went to the state capital and

786
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: state legislature and um pushed for mental health days and

787
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: they get three mental health days, I believe a semester

788
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: or quarter. Um yeah, no, it's super, It's it's very needed.

789
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 1: I mean I can't tell you how many like fake

790
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: sick days I took because I needed a mental health day.

791
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: But I really hope that um yeah, kids in high

792
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: school or even college undergraduate can see the type of

793
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: power that they have in their words, because I think,

794
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: you know, if if they speak up and they come

795
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 1: out in numbers because their strengthened, that that people will listen.

796
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on my podcast, and I know

797
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: you're very busy. And my final question for you is

798
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 1: something I was talking about with my brother and he

799
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: plays two K and B A two K a lot,

800
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: and I was wondering, do you ever play yourself? This

801
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: is going to do that? Yeah, I mean, if I

802
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: have a choice, I yeah, that's like the narcissist in

803
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: me is to be like, Okay, I'm just gonna see

804
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: how many points and rebounds I can put up. But typically,

805
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 1: you know, if if if I get to pick like

806
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 1: teams from a different era or or you know, some

807
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 1: of the best teams ever, I'll typically pick them and

808
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 1: then just like try and win at any expense because

809
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 1: I remember growing up, I had a lot of a

810
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: lot of broke I was a really sore loser until

811
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 1: I had to like learn to not be so crazy

812
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: in that but still be super competitive. Just not let

813
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 1: anybody see. Uh. It was a lot of broken systems

814
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 1: and a lot of broken controllers, and a lot of

815
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: my parents, parents yelling at me because my brother's system

816
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: that he just got was broken. So I typically try

817
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,959
Speaker 1: and give myself the advantage in that. So nothing even

818
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: close to that. I mean I would if I had,

819
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: if I was an athlete in a video game, I

820
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,359
Speaker 1: would totally right. I'm and I feel like, first of all, yeah,

821
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 1: first of all, when you first get the game and

822
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 1: you're in it, you're like, Okay, I'm gonna go see

823
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 1: how how they did me this or how how my

824
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 1: guys this time? What is my player rating? You know,

825
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: where are my attributes? What you know? What am I wearing?

826
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 1: How you know it doesn't look like me? What's my swag? Like? Yeah,

827
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 1: of course why wouldn't irectly? Well, thank you so much?

828
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: For coming on my podcast. It means so much to me,

829
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: and I'm really excited that we get to kick off

830
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 1: mental health awareness much because I appreciate so much how

831
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: honest you are about it, because I know mental health

832
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: is not talked about enough and it's something I've experienced

833
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,720
Speaker 1: a lot and you have, And just thanks for taking

834
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 1: the time. Well, thank you for for having me, and

835
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: thank you for having me as part of the finale.

836
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 1: And I didn't know that this was the case, so

837
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 1: this is uh, we go, yeah, of course right. Thank

838
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:54,840
Speaker 1: you guys so much for listening to this week's episode,

839
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,240
Speaker 1: and thank you Kevin so much for taking the time

840
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: to openly talk about mental health. And so mental health

841
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: is such an important topic. I'm hoping that during Mental

842
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 1: Health and Wary in this month, we can all share

843
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,399
Speaker 1: our stories and openly talk about what we're going through

844
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: to make others feel less alone. Make sure you go

845
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: follow Kevin on Instagram at Kevin Love and please go

846
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 1: look at this foundation. It's called the Kevin Love Fund

847
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 1: and you should totally check it out. Don't forget to

848
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 1: subscribe to our podcast if you haven't already. Also follow

849
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 1: me on Instagram at it Sammy J. That's I T

850
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 1: S S A M M Y j A y E.

851
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: And a special shout out to my brother Mark for

852
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: coming on my podcast. I love you, dude, and thank

853
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,720
Speaker 1: you for always being there for me. All Right, you guys,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed

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Speaker 1: this episode and I'll see you next sact. Bye,