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Speaker 1: So I don't know if it's that we didn't buy

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Speaker 1: anything during the pandemic that wasn't ingredients or cookware or

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Speaker 1: fluffy loungeware or slippers or home decor um. But I

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Speaker 1: feel like recently the mafia of subscribing to things I

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Speaker 1: didn't subscribe to. Is that a fever pitch? I first

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Speaker 1: of all, I want you to know that if I

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Speaker 1: look at my phone, people get anxiety, and I am

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Speaker 1: the most declutter organized, get rid of everything person. I

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Speaker 1: want to MoMA to freak you out. In my inboxes,

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Speaker 1: I have forty five thousand seven two emails I don't

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Speaker 1: even bother. I don't know how to delete. What would

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Speaker 1: I do? It's like deleting all the pictures. I want

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Speaker 1: to go back to the time where we took pictures

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Speaker 1: on a camera and then went and got them developed,

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Speaker 1: so we weren't so alf cocked that we just took

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Speaker 1: ten thousand pictures. Even when you're out in public with

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Speaker 1: my daughter or with Paul and you ask someone to

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Speaker 1: take a picture of you, they take the liberty of

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Speaker 1: taking like forty pictures, which is so nice that I

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Speaker 1: took a bunch because they wanted to get a good angle,

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Speaker 1: and I appreciate that. But I like when my daughter

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Speaker 1: takes a picture. She takes one and it's amazing. And Paul,

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Speaker 1: my fiancee, is kind of like that too. He's not

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Speaker 1: just like taking liberty with my phone and taking twenty pictures.

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Speaker 1: And by the way I find that, then it's like,

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Speaker 1: you have a problem. You have the twenty pictures of

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Speaker 1: the same damn thing. I mean, I'm not Linda Evangelista.

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Speaker 1: I'm not like putting, I'm not smizing in between each picture.

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Speaker 1: I'm standing in the same exact spot. So now I

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Speaker 1: have two million pictures that I'll never look at my

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Speaker 1: whole life. The only reason it's good that I'm famous

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Speaker 1: or a well known person is because I can google

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Speaker 1: my daughter and see her face, because how would I

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Speaker 1: find any of these pictures. Sometimes Paul will send me

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Speaker 1: a picture from three years ago because I guess he

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Speaker 1: put him in his favorites. I don't even know where

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Speaker 1: that is. I don't know where these pictures are. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how you search things. Four years ago, I

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Speaker 1: look hot in a black letty dress. How do I

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Speaker 1: find that three years ago I took a picture of

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Speaker 1: a bag in a store that you know I had

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Speaker 1: an e strig pattern. I don't know where that is.

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Speaker 1: It's in my phone, but where. And then sometimes I'll

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Speaker 1: be flipping through and then I'll find some other thing

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Speaker 1: and then I take a picture of that picture, so

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Speaker 1: it's closer to now in my pictures. So if I like,

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Speaker 1: I know that recently, I took a picture of the

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Speaker 1: picture of the stool that I saw years ago in

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Speaker 1: a magazine. And that happens too. We don't rip out

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Speaker 1: pages anymore. I had a lot less to worry about

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Speaker 1: when we just ripped out the page or something. You

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Speaker 1: liked it a magazine. Now I screenshot it if you

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Speaker 1: see it online. I favored it, but I forget that

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Speaker 1: I favored it because I don't see it, so I

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Speaker 1: don't know where to go find it. I don't even

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Speaker 1: know what my favorites are. I know that I do

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Speaker 1: that little thing it looks like a flag, but I

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Speaker 1: don't know where they land. I I see that little

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Speaker 1: thing on the right, looks like a sort of a

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Speaker 1: little like ribbon, the end of a ribbon, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know where they go. So I on Instagram will

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Speaker 1: message myself something that I like and then forget it.

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Speaker 1: I text myself. Do you text yourself? I text myself

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Speaker 1: fifty times a self. Here's a pizza that looks delicious.

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Speaker 1: Let's make this one day self. Here's a photo of

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Speaker 1: a lovely credenza. But I never answer myself, literally, So

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Speaker 1: all day long I'm sending more and more text to

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Speaker 1: myself that I don't answer. This brings me to the

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Speaker 1: unsubscribed culture every fucking day ending and why? And I

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Speaker 1: didn't sign any kind of goddamn contract with anything. You

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Speaker 1: buy anything you buy an ovenmit a goddamn uh hand towel,

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Speaker 1: a pair of glasses, a pair of sweatpants, a lip

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Speaker 1: glass and eyeshadow. You're now in their mafia. Everything that

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Speaker 1: they do you have to hear about all day long.

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Speaker 1: I bought a goddamn it scara. I don't need to

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Speaker 1: hear about fucking hoops. Leave me alone. So every day

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Speaker 1: I have to wake up and start unsubscribing. And it's

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Speaker 1: in the smallest possible unsubscribed print. You gotta get your

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Speaker 1: reading glasses out because you can't find that. Then you

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Speaker 1: go to the bottom and you hit unsubscribed. And what

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Speaker 1: happens next, Now it's a whole. It's the census bureau.

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Speaker 1: Do you not want to receive these at all? Do

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Speaker 1: you want to receive them once a day, four times

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Speaker 1: a week? Do you want to see them every minute

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Speaker 1: of your life? Or never hear from us? Again? I

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Speaker 1: just fucking said unsubscribe that means unsubscribed, So I want

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Speaker 1: to have like are returning message to them being like, Hi,

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Speaker 1: unsubscribed is not available right now. I'm on vacation. But

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Speaker 1: don't do we care that I have forty five thousand,

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Speaker 1: seven hundred and sixty five or whatever I just said emails?

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Speaker 1: Like what am I? Who cares? Why start now? I

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Speaker 1: mean I have once from my goddamn nasty divorce forty

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Speaker 1: years ago. You have to like know certain things, but

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Speaker 1: I it's a mafia of it's in and of itself.

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Speaker 1: And what about the pictures? Don't you? Does anyone agree

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Speaker 1: with these pictures? So I don't know what's in here?

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Speaker 1: And then I I got one day your phone just

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Speaker 1: says fuck you, no more pictures, and then you start

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Speaker 1: the leading pictures. But it doesn't matter. It's like, no, honey,

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Speaker 1: that's not gonna do it. All those fucking tourists that

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Speaker 1: you asked to take pictures of you. It's all that

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Speaker 1: and all the other ship and all taking pictures of

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Speaker 1: you know, your phone and couches and pizzas and all

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Speaker 1: that ship too. So we're done. Now you have to

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Speaker 1: do a whole thing, and then you buy all this

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Speaker 1: extra storage, and or you're home breaks you get a

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Speaker 1: new phone, and then your new phone you could put

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Speaker 1: new stuff on, but then sometimes you'll go back and

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Speaker 1: look for the picture and it's on the old phone.

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Speaker 1: Does anyone have that experience? Like I have an old

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Speaker 1: phone that's in the city that I'm now panic and

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Speaker 1: wears that phone because I know there are certain pictures.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what they are, but once in a

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Speaker 1: while I'll be like, oh, ship, screen grab that on

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Speaker 1: that phone. It's not there, right, No, I did it.

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Speaker 1: I tried to get a new I tried. It's like

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Speaker 1: trying to break up with somebody and you keep going

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Speaker 1: back and sucking them. I tried to do this, and

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Speaker 1: I even was going to go onto like a Samsung,

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Speaker 1: like I was gonna be like, fuck it, these phones

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Speaker 1: don't even know each other. I'm going from an Apple

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Speaker 1: to a Samsung. I'm fucking done. So for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: because the way everything sinks up and links up and

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Speaker 1: I got enough problems. Um, I went out to another iPhone,

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Speaker 1: like this is gonna be my back phone. This is

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Speaker 1: a phone that only these people know, and these people,

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Speaker 1: but it creeps in. You can't so I say, just

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Speaker 1: suck at the forty seven thousand. Eithers will lead them

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Speaker 1: all or just don't care. Keep buying, pretend I work

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Speaker 1: for NASA. Just keep buying more storage. But you don't understand.

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Speaker 1: This is the opposite of who I am. As a

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Speaker 1: person like I am, my goal is to get rid

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Speaker 1: of everything. So I'm now like an unintentional just because

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Speaker 1: I don't know anything tech hoarder. I'm a hoarder, don't

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Speaker 1: have any solutions. Usually I'm a practical solutions person. I

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Speaker 1: have nothing. The Magnan I problems and tech hoarder is one.

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Speaker 1: Who else is an unintentional tech hoarder who has fifty

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Speaker 1: pictures of the same thing because people can't just take

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Speaker 1: one picture of you and just let it be good

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Speaker 1: enough anymore. Graham Norton is amazing. He's an Irish actor, comedian,

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Speaker 1: commentator and presenter. He's well known for his work in

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Speaker 1: the UK. He's a five time back the TV Award

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Speaker 1: winner for his comedy chat show, The Graham Norton Show.

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Speaker 1: I've been up late at night flipping through chattels let

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Speaker 1: him overseas and cried at his show. It is so

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Speaker 1: funny and he's just very interesting. He has a wide

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Speaker 1: ranging skill set. He's also an author, writing both nonfiction

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Speaker 1: and fiction. His latest Home Stretch, a novel, is releasing today.

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Speaker 1: I'm impressed it the funds of time with his busy schedule,

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Speaker 1: and we talked about why you should hit your wagon

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Speaker 1: to the correct team, how you should always bet on yourself,

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Speaker 1: the importance of choosing your battles, and why you need

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Speaker 1: to follow your passion even if it's a little off brand.

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Speaker 1: Graham is always a delight and you're really going to

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Speaker 1: love this episode. I don't know if you'll be surprised

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Speaker 1: to know that I'm really aware of you and that

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Speaker 1: I was. You were on my list to have you on,

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Speaker 1: and I was really excited and like this was a

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Speaker 1: big get for me, and of course, because we're in

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Speaker 1: the US, an obscure big get meaning like you're a

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Speaker 1: big deal. But you know what I mean, like hang

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Speaker 1: on and Hilary Clinton and Mark Cuban and get some

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Speaker 1: good people, just like obviously you have for years on

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Speaker 1: your show, but you were a big get for me,

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Speaker 1: and I want to tell you why. I so, first

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Speaker 1: of all, I everything to me is about just the comedy,

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Speaker 1: and you know, humor as its own excuse um, and

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Speaker 1: you just you just have an irreverend like you don't

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Speaker 1: really care vibe about you. You're just having fun and

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Speaker 1: it's absurd and it's like a little demented. And I've

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Speaker 1: been up late at night in other countries and then

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Speaker 1: just have found you. And it feels like I'm watching

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Speaker 1: something from like a time warp. Sometimes, like I'm watching

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Speaker 1: like like a sixties talk show in the funniest ways,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, what is this show? Who is this

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Speaker 1: funny hystorical man? It's Kate Hudson on and all these

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Speaker 1: famous people, Like I didn't know this guy. This is

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Speaker 1: years ago, And every time I would see you, I

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Speaker 1: would just pee my pants laughing. So I've just been

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Speaker 1: very aware of you for a long time, and I'm excited.

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Speaker 1: Well that's so so kind of you, I know what

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Speaker 1: you mean about it does look like if people started

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Speaker 1: smoking on the show, you wouldn't be that surprised, exactly

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Speaker 1: like the old Dick Cavett shows where they're they're wearing

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Speaker 1: hats and smoke exactly. It feels like and you know,

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Speaker 1: when you're in another country, you're lost in translation, so

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Speaker 1: you don't know what's going on, and you're like, they're

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Speaker 1: really famous people. So for my dreaming right now, there

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Speaker 1: are this famous people on the show with this funny

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Speaker 1: guy and it's sort of like a ship show free

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Speaker 1: for all, and they're all having so much fun, and

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Speaker 1: I just think it's great. So that's why, you know,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to have you here. But I really realize

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Speaker 1: that you have built a brand and a success and

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Speaker 1: in a non traditional way, which is what the show

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Speaker 1: is about, and you're nothing sort of interesting. So I'm

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Speaker 1: very aware of you and I was wondering if you

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Speaker 1: knew who had any clue who I am and why

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Speaker 1: you would do this show Like I am aware of

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Speaker 1: who you are and exactly and talk about brand building.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I can see why you're talking about it.

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Speaker 1: You were very very good at that. So, um, I

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Speaker 1: knew that you're very popular. And I didn't know you

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Speaker 1: had a podcast in fairness until they asked me to

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Speaker 1: be on it, but I imagined it will be a

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Speaker 1: very popular podcast. And also, you know, when you think

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Speaker 1: about you know, shared audiences and things, I kind of thought, oh,

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Speaker 1: I imagine her audience might like my show, might like

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Speaker 1: my books. So I thought this was a good fit.

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Speaker 1: So it's interesting that you're serious writer. I write books

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Speaker 1: in a very sort of prescriptive way. You really get

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Speaker 1: deep into writing a book in the traditional author sense.

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Speaker 1: And we started as an actor. But you are to

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Speaker 1: consider yourself mostly a comedian, would you say, like at

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Speaker 1: the core and the heart of who you are, you writer,

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Speaker 1: which also comedians are obviously writers. Yeah, but what what

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Speaker 1: are you? In your mind? I was a stand up

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Speaker 1: to serve a purpose. I was a stand up so

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Speaker 1: that people knew what to do with me, because you know,

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Speaker 1: producers and things kind of go, oh, he's a stand up.

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Speaker 1: He can do a bit of TV presenting, he can

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Speaker 1: do a bit of radio presenting. He did, And that

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Speaker 1: was my way. In the minute I could stop being

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Speaker 1: a stand up. The minute it wasn't my primary source

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Speaker 1: of income, I stopped. I never really enjoyed it. I

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Speaker 1: was never that good at it, to be honest, I

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Speaker 1: was never a closer. You know. It was the comedy club.

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Speaker 1: I was always either the host. I like being the

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Speaker 1: m C. That was a really fun night for me,

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Speaker 1: and I liked being maybe the middle act. But I

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Speaker 1: was never you know, I wasn't a guaranteed I wasn't

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Speaker 1: a guaranteed hit maker. So don't put me last because

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Speaker 1: I could ruin the entire evening if the audience took

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Speaker 1: a gin me. So it was it's a vehicle, which

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Speaker 1: it is for many people. I recently did stand up

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Speaker 1: for the first time during COVID in a real comedy

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Speaker 1: club in New York City for seven minutes, uh like

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Speaker 1: a month ago, with people seated like, you know, six

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Speaker 1: from each other. And what I found interesting about the

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Speaker 1: process of doing I found the process of doing it,

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Speaker 1: meaning leading up to it and the y and the

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Speaker 1: structure more even more interesting than doing it from a

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Speaker 1: business perspective, because it was just like business, where it's

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Speaker 1: about how you prepare yourself and how you set yourself up.

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Speaker 1: And I really realized what an art form it is,

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Speaker 1: and that was the only reason that I was able

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Speaker 1: to do it, because I was organized, if that makes

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Speaker 1: any sense. But hang on, though, I mean, if you

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Speaker 1: haven't done that before, it is one of the most

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Speaker 1: terrifying things or did you not care? Did you go

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Speaker 1: into it thinking this will serve a purpose If I

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Speaker 1: die for seven minutes, I'm still getting material out of this,

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Speaker 1: It's still a thing. Or did you go into it thinking,

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Speaker 1: please God like me and laugh at me for seven minutes. Neither.

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Speaker 1: I've always said I wanted to do what I was.

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Speaker 1: I did the ground, names, etcetera. And I hope you

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Speaker 1: have time because I want to get into your life

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Speaker 1: and your childhood and your money and all the once

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Speaker 1: I decided I wanted to do it, because I have

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Speaker 1: always wanted to do it, not like voraciously, but it's

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Speaker 1: always been like I'm the person that sayes whatever I say,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to do, and how have I not done

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Speaker 1: this one thing that I was sort of not scared,

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Speaker 1: But it feels like I'm being a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a pussy not doing it. So the minute I said

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Speaker 1: I was going to do it, then I was off

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Speaker 1: to the races. And then and it wasn't terror. It

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Speaker 1: was like am I really going to do Wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: I'm really gonna Am I gonna do this? Like what

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Speaker 1: is it? And what is the big odds? How hard

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Speaker 1: could it be? How and and but then it became

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Speaker 1: scary because how could Jerry Seinfeldt have bombed even in

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Speaker 1: his later year. How could people like rist Rock bomb how?

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Speaker 1: And it came to me through talking to all these

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Speaker 1: people that it was because of when they take that,

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Speaker 1: they're taking risks. When you're risking your bombing, that makes

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Speaker 1: sense to me. In business, you jump, you fly, okay,

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Speaker 1: So the whole thing was a risk. But um, I

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Speaker 1: didn't fight off more than I could chew. I had

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Speaker 1: like three sections of like things that I really do

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Speaker 1: think are funny. And it was about the style there.

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Speaker 1: So for anybody listening and what it was worried about

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Speaker 1: public speaking or wedding or anything. It was about being prepared.

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Speaker 1: I realized that my style, I have a ranting style,

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Speaker 1: and my style was is to be aggravated about something,

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Speaker 1: vent about it, tie it up in a bow. But

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Speaker 1: I was prepared. I know that sounds crazy, So once

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Speaker 1: I got there, I knew I'm going to talk about this,

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Speaker 1: flow into this, talk about that, and then flow into that,

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Speaker 1: and with nothing really written down except from my bullet points,

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Speaker 1: I didn't care if I bomb because I was prepared.

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Speaker 1: All you could do is set yourself up if I

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Speaker 1: bombed and I genuinely wasn't good at this, then that's okay.

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Speaker 1: I did what I could, and I found that, like you,

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Speaker 1: when I was done, I didn't need to do it again.

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Speaker 1: It felt like I don't want to be begging for

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Speaker 1: admiration in that way. I'd rather be natural. So I

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Speaker 1: respect the art firms in Scratched. I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: the people you're talking about, the Chris Rocks, the Ellens,

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Speaker 1: those people they do it because they love it. They

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Speaker 1: get something out of that that you and I don't.

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Speaker 1: Even if we can do it, even if there's the

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Speaker 1: possibility that we could actually make a living doing that,

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Speaker 1: I don't get the reward that those people do they get.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they are fed by it. When you listen

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Speaker 1: to real stand up comics talking about doing it because

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Speaker 1: you feel like you're a multi millionaire, why on earth

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Speaker 1: are you slipping around the country doing one night stands

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Speaker 1: around the place? You know they love it. Me. I

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Speaker 1: want to be in a TV studio. I want the

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Speaker 1: cameras to find me. I don't want to go looking

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Speaker 1: for an audience. I want to walk into a room

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Speaker 1: and find them. It's well, do you want to breathe.

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Speaker 1: I think you want to breathe a little more in

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Speaker 1: your show is very breathing, and you want to not

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Speaker 1: be suffocated by the confinement of what you have to

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Speaker 1: say next and land the plane and get it done.

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Speaker 1: And also it's different all the time, so I'm constantly interested.

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Speaker 1: You know, I've got different guests each week, so it's

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Speaker 1: a different show each week I'm there, but everything else

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Speaker 1: has changed, and that keeps you interested. It's mean, it's

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Speaker 1: like doing these sorts of interviews. You know, you can

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Speaker 1: podcast up the wazoo for the rest of your life,

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Speaker 1: but so long as you're talking to somebody knew each time.

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Speaker 1: You know, some weeks will be really boring, someone would

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Speaker 1: be really funny, someone will be really interesting, but it

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Speaker 1: will be different each time, and that keeps everybody interested. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I really do love doing this more than I've ever

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Speaker 1: loved anything. Um I've read about you now, I mean

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Speaker 1: I knew you from television and now I know about you.

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Speaker 1: And every week that I speak to someone for over

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Speaker 1: an hour, I really get to understand who they are

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Speaker 1: and what makes them tick. But everybody doesn't want to

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Speaker 1: be put in a box and either go through the

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Speaker 1: corporate ladder, or go to law school or maybe not

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Speaker 1: go to college, or do it in the way that

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Speaker 1: they think they're supposed to. And I'm here to liberate

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Speaker 1: them in the non traditional, you know, circuitous route to success.

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Speaker 1: And it's it's about what makes somebody who they are,

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Speaker 1: and there's so many common threads through really successful people.

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Speaker 1: So I want to get a sense of your upbringing

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Speaker 1: and your relationship to work, ethics, success, money, what that

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Speaker 1: was like in your household. They wanted me to just

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Speaker 1: get a job. They wanted me to be safe and secure.

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Speaker 1: That's all they wanted for their kids. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting now because I feel like everyone's supposed to

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Speaker 1: have like uber job satisfaction. Everyone's supposed to have a vocation.

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Speaker 1: You cann't just go to work and get a paycheck.

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Speaker 1: You're supposed to be, you know, fulfilled by your job.

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Speaker 1: That was not my parents tradition, and everybody now thinks

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Speaker 1: they have to have a careers, a thing that kind

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Speaker 1: of fulfills them. You know, I'm yeah, this is I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm living my true authentic life doing this job. And actually,

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Speaker 1: my dad's satisfaction came from making sure we had food,

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Speaker 1: making sure we had clothes, making sure the mortgage was paid.

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Speaker 1: That was his job satisfaction. He hated his actual job.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he absolutely loathed. He was lucky he was

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Speaker 1: able to get early retirement. He was out of there

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Speaker 1: by early fifties I think, and he got nearly his

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Speaker 1: full pension and then he was gone. But that for me,

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Speaker 1: they want to be you know, they knew that I

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Speaker 1: wanted to be a performer. They wanted I wanted to

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Speaker 1: be an actor. But they were like, do the bank exam,

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Speaker 1: it can be your hobby, do this, do that. Of

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Speaker 1: course I failed all those things, all those kind of

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Speaker 1: fall back jobs you're supposed to get. They didn't want me.

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Speaker 1: I was. I was rejected by them all. So by

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Speaker 1: kind of accident, I ended up in university with no

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Speaker 1: plan of what to do with that qualification, and then

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Speaker 1: I dropped out of university. I have to say, in

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Speaker 1: terms of a path to success, I'm not sure how

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Speaker 1: useful my path to success will be for the listeners,

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Speaker 1: because it's what I did it. I think ultimately what

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Speaker 1: I did was I built this thing where I had

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Speaker 1: a plan A and that was it, and I boxed

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Speaker 1: myself into a corner and that's a terrible thing to do.

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Speaker 1: You should always have a plan B. But I didn't.

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Speaker 1: So if this hadn't worked out for me, if I

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Speaker 1: hadn't kind of stumbled my way into a career, I

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Speaker 1: have no idea what I'd be doing. Yeah, but I

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Speaker 1: don't If you have a plan B, you're not going

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Speaker 1: to focus the most on your plan A. That's like

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Speaker 1: the same thing saying that with a relationship. So I

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Speaker 1: was in my late thirties and I still didn't really

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Speaker 1: know what I was going to be doing with my life,

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Speaker 1: you know, but whatever I was doing in the moment,

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Speaker 1: I was very passionate about and driven about. And you

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Speaker 1: know that is a rub for people, But that's why

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Speaker 1: people end up being in sales or bar attending and

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Speaker 1: the money is good and they never end up being

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Speaker 1: able to bust out because they have that safety net.

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Speaker 1: And you're kind of riding to horses. So and I

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Speaker 1: think it's less about your path then who you are.

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Speaker 1: So did you think you had it? Did you feel

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Speaker 1: inside like I have it? I've got this thing. Doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter when my parents are saying they want me to

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Speaker 1: just work hard and get a job, but I know

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Speaker 1: inside there's a light, there's a sparkle. My gut instinct says,

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Speaker 1: you know X. I think what happened was my parents

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Speaker 1: didn't want to see me hurt, so they managed my

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Speaker 1: expectations down all the time. You know, so well, of

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Speaker 1: course you didn't get that, because you know, why would you.

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Speaker 1: And I believe that. I believed that the career I

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Speaker 1: wanted was for somebody else. That's what someone else did,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't know. I mean, I was living in

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Speaker 1: rural Ireland, so even the thought of becoming an actor,

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Speaker 1: I had no idea how you would go about doing that.

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Speaker 1: You know, there was Irish TV, there were actors on TV.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how they got there. There was no

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Speaker 1: drama school in Ireland at that time. So after I

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Speaker 1: dropped out of university, I went to America. I lived

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Speaker 1: in a hippie commune in San Francisco, and those hippies

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Speaker 1: were so great for me. They really taught me so much.

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Speaker 1: You know. They were asking me what I want to do,

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Speaker 1: and I said I wanted to be an actor, and

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Speaker 1: then well, why don't you do that? And when somebody

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Speaker 1: looks at it from that angle, you know, why aren't

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Speaker 1: you doing that? Because you've got all the reasons why

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Speaker 1: you know you shouldn't you kind of well, why you? Actually,

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Speaker 1: why aren't I I'm young, I've got time to fail.

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Speaker 1: And talking to them, they gave me the kind of

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Speaker 1: I don't know if there's confidence, but sort of the

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Speaker 1: the motivation to go back, go back to Europe. I

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Speaker 1: went to London and I just thought, well, I'll follow

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Speaker 1: the stream for as long as it goes. So I'll

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Speaker 1: apply for drama school. If I don't get into drama school,

427
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 1: then I'll think again. I did get into drama school.

428
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 1: Then I thought, well, if I don't get an agent,

429
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 1: I'll think again. I did get an agent. If I

430
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,639
Speaker 1: don't get a job, I'll think again. I did get jobs.

431
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,320
Speaker 1: So I kind of followed as far as I could.

432
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 1: But that came from the hippies. The hippies were the

433
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,360
Speaker 1: ones who kind of turned me onto that way of thinking.

434
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:03,240
Speaker 1: Whereas I think my parents just this as a criticism

435
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,880
Speaker 1: of them, and it's not because what they did was amazing.

436
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 1: I mean, they came from really poor background. They were

437
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 1: very very working class, and they just by graft and

438
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 1: cleverness managed to eke their way into kind of an

439
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,439
Speaker 1: Irish middle class and I think they were scared that

440
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,600
Speaker 1: I was going to lose all of that, so they

441
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 1: wanted me to be safe, and by going away, by

442
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,680
Speaker 1: leaving Ireland, I think that's what kind of helped me

443
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,159
Speaker 1: get out of that kind of the safe lane. Do

444
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 1: you feel like the hippie culture made you present? You

445
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:39,920
Speaker 1: were just in the moment and you were just safe

446
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 1: and whatever was going to happen, and you were just

447
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,400
Speaker 1: letting the path drive you. This is very different. You're

448
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,679
Speaker 1: different than other people that I've spoken to in the

449
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:48,919
Speaker 1: sense that you were really just sort of free to

450
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 1: be you and me about it. Did you have big

451
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 1: dreams of money? Like what did you have? Money? Noise?

452
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,439
Speaker 1: Money noise? I mean money noise. What's so weird having

453
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 1: money now? Is kind thinking back to what I thought

454
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 1: money was and the difference of having it compared to

455
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,640
Speaker 1: the difference of wanting it. And you know, I remember

456
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,920
Speaker 1: when I was in London, I was working in restaurants

457
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 1: and I was trying to make it as an actor.

458
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: You know, you just thought, oh, if I had, you know,

459
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 1: five thousand pounds, that would change my life, that would

460
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:26,639
Speaker 1: turn everything around. So I never dreamt big. I never thought,

461
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 1: oh I had a million pounds. I always thought in

462
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 1: quite achievable little lumps. And then, you know, because I

463
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:40,679
Speaker 1: work in TV, this weird thing happened where you're working, working, working, working, working,

464
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 1: and you're making living, you're paying your rent, and then

465
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 1: you get a hit TV show and it's like you've

466
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 1: won the lottery. Then it's not about a career or

467
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 1: it's not about striving or financial planning. The money just

468
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 1: arrives and and so you love it. I mean I

469
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 1: like money, don't get me wrong now, because you love

470
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,160
Speaker 1: what you're doing. Oh yeah, that you're paid. And that's

471
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,120
Speaker 1: the thing, you know. I think people get really frustrated

472
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:13,640
Speaker 1: by show business where you see actors or TV hosts

473
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 1: and they're wearing a suit and prancing around on a

474
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 1: shiny floor and you're scrubbing floors. You're being paid this

475
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: much of that. And I think the way I explained

476
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: it is I took a bet on myself. That's going

477
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: back to the no plan B. I put all my

478
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: money on you know, red and if this hadn't worked out, nothing,

479
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: zero zilch, I would be beyond broke. But the bet

480
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 1: came in against all the odds, as you know, And well,

481
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 1: so why are you successful because you're honest, you're engaging,

482
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 1: you don't care about cancel culture per se. You're just irreverent, unapologetic.

483
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 1: Why are you successful in this genre? You can't just

484
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,679
Speaker 1: do this without being a business person. I mean you

485
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: sort of are making it like you just show up

486
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: and it just works out and you know the dollars

487
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: role in. There has to be some sort of real

488
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 1: business instinct within you within this construct. Well, a lucky

489
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 1: thing happened very early on where we got a big commission.

490
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,360
Speaker 1: I was with a TV network here called Channel four,

491
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 1: and they gave us a big commission kind of you know,

492
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: half a year of shows, weekly shows, and the executive producer,

493
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: who does have some business acumen, kind of, well, hang on,

494
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: if we've got that much business coming in, we can

495
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: set up our own production company. We've like, we're already

496
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 1: successful if we know we've got that much business coming in.

497
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: So he did that, and so I own half of

498
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 1: that production company. And the fact that his career is

499
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: linked to mine as in, you know, he's got kids,

500
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 1: he's got responsibilities. So basically, if I'm not working, he's

501
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 1: not making money. So oh, I think there are lots

502
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: of points in my career where I think I could

503
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: have gone away. I wouldn't have wanted to, but there

504
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: was no one kind of pushing you know. I did

505
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,360
Speaker 1: a thing. I left Channel four, I went to America,

506
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 1: had an unsuccessful series and was signed to the BBC.

507
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 1: We didn't have a show to do or anything. And

508
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: I think that was the moment in my life where

509
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: my career could have just vanished. And because of him,

510
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: and because he needed the production company to reworking, he

511
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: was the one back in England. He was the one

512
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: kind of beavering away and making sure that we did

513
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: get some shows commissioned. So I think when you talk

514
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 1: about you know, I'm not a business but I'm really not.

515
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: But he is. And my smart thing was we hitched

516
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: our wagons to each other in a way. But knowing

517
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: what you know and knowing what you don't know is

518
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: a huge part of being successful and having the right team,

519
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,959
Speaker 1: having the right squad around. There has to be some

520
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: skill set in having a gut instinct. You can't be

521
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 1: successful like you are not have a great gut instinct.

522
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 1: I believe, well, maybe I've got a good but also

523
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: it is luck. Like my executive producer Graham Stewart. I've

524
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 1: been with him since the beginning, the producer Jon, He's

525
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: been with me for over twenty years. And I think

526
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: in the end, if you stumble upon in this industry

527
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: where it's really hard, you know, the vast majority of

528
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: shows aren't successful. So if you stumble upon a hit,

529
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: you know, don't quit the hit. Why would either those

530
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 1: guys walk away from this show? And certainly I'm not

531
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,199
Speaker 1: going to walk away from it. It's my show, and

532
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: equally all of us are going to be working as

533
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 1: hard as we can to keep it a success. We're

534
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 1: not just going to take our eye off the ball

535
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: and go, oh, it's a success now, we don't need

536
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 1: to try we do. It. Kind of adds pressure in

537
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 1: a way that you've got to make it bigger and

538
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: better all the time. I can't wait to hear this answer.

539
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: What percentage are you lucky? And what percentage smart? Um?

540
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, there have been some things

541
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: I've said no to over the years, and I think, well,

542
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 1: those are smart, good decisions. Um. There's been a couple

543
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: of things I've said yes to which were not good decisions.

544
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: But I think I have a pretty good kind of

545
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 1: feeling for when something's not right. Um, at what age

546
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: did you come out and what was your parents relationship

547
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: to that? What was that discussion in your house? Lett Hole,

548
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: You sort of said that your parents they were always

549
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: protecting you and that things were going to kind of

550
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: go wrong for you. So they were cushioning elementary school.

551
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: When I was going to elementary school, you know, I

552
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: was four or four and a half years old, and

553
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: I was a fay little boy. I liked wearing my

554
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: sister's dresses and my parents never forbid me from doing

555
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: any of that. And remember this was the sixties in Ireland,

556
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: you know, it was not like the sixties anywhere else.

557
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: It was like the forties anywhere else. And they never

558
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 1: feared me from doing this. It would let me dress

559
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: up my sister's clothes and all this. But then, of

560
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: course this little child was going to be sent off

561
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: to elementary school where you know, I think back, my

562
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: mother must have just thought that child is going to

563
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: be beaten to a bloody pulp in school. You know,

564
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: this is going to be such a hard thing for

565
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 1: this little kid. And I remember she said to me,

566
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 1: now when people try to pick on you, don't react.

567
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: They are looking for a reaction. And I took that

568
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: advice and and I went with it, and it worked.

569
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: I was never bullied particularly, I was never picked on,

570
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 1: because that is what the bullies are looking for. Um,

571
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what great advice it is in terms

572
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: of your life. I think it makes you a bit

573
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: emotionally distant my training yourself to never react to things.

574
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: But but in terms of protecting me, it was very

575
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: good advice. Now cut two, when I'm kind of eighteen nineteen,

576
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: I wasn't particularly sure I was gay, you know, I

577
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: I thought it was, but you're in denial and you're thinking,

578
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: maybe I'm bisexual, Maybe it's a phase. All the all

579
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: the classic tropes, all the neighbors would have known, oh

580
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: there's the gay guy from next door. But my parents

581
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: didn't want to see it, so they didn't see it.

582
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: I didn't see it. They didn't see it. Then I

583
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: left Ireland, I did see it. They still didn't see it,

584
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: and so I never came out. I sort of just

585
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:26,479
Speaker 1: drifted out. I just incrementally became gay in my family. Um.

586
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: You know, once I left Ireland, I was gay, and

587
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: so because I was quite camp and quite fay, everyone

588
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: I met, you know, in San Francisco. In London, they

589
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: just assumed I was gay, because of course I was gay,

590
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: and so I didn't never have to tell anyone because

591
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: everyone just sold that's that gay guy. And so there

592
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: was no coming out there. And then finally I had

593
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: a kind of a fully formed gay life. I sort

594
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: of introduced my sister to it first, and maybe she

595
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: went back and kind of w MC to Ireland kind

596
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: of idea to them for the news, but it was

597
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: never We never had that, you know, the beautiful coming

598
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: out conversation. We never had the beautiful moment where we

599
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: all cried and hugged. And also you've got to remember

600
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: talking about any sex was awful, you know. I remember

601
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: when my my sister was married. I remember when she

602
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: came to the house and told us she was pregnant.

603
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,479
Speaker 1: There was a sense of embarrassment because we knew, without

604
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: doubt something had happened. She had had sex. So it

605
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: wasn't like there was all this sex talk going on,

606
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: but I was the only one not talking about it.

607
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: No one wanted to talk about the sex lives. It was, yeah,

608
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: it was. It was not a comfortable area. So I

609
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: think if we if you can get around it if

610
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: you can so convent talking about anyone's sexuality at that

611
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: time in Ireland, you did so. I think my parents

612
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: will be forever grateful that I never sat them down

613
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: for the talk. They didn't want to talk either, none

614
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: of us did so amazing. Oh, well, what's the entertainment

615
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: industry like in the u K? F y I I am,

616
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: I'm Welsh, I've spent summers in Martha Tidfil as a kid,

617
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: and I'm Scottish and Irish, which I did not realize

618
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: that it's a significant amount. I realized doing one of

619
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: those sort of ancestry tests. So so what is uh?

620
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: Because the reason I'm about, I'm asking about the entertainment

621
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: industry in the UK and why you didn't um try

622
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: it over here in this same to this same degree

623
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: in scale, and what that feels like to you. For example,

624
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: everyone says to me, skinny girl, can we have it

625
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: in UK? Why don't we have it in the UK.

626
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: You know, we get in our own world and we

627
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 1: think we're successful and then we realize that, like my

628
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: products don't sell their people know who I am, but

629
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: probably not most people. And so it's just interesting and

630
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: I'm curious what, um, what the entertainment industry is like there?

631
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: What your life is like there? As an a detainer,

632
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: as a media personality. I mean, it is interesting, isn't it.

633
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: That thing where there are moments when you go, oh,

634
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: big world, you know, because we're so used to you know,

635
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: worldwide Web YouTube. But actually there's loads of stuff that

636
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: doesn't travel. There's loads of stuff that people don't know,

637
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: and so it's still worth traveling everyone, It's still worth

638
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: going to other places. You'll see things you don't know.

639
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: You know, I knew nothing else apart from the British

640
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: entertainment industry until I went to America, and back in

641
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: the early naughties we did a deal with Comedy Central

642
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: and I did a series with Comedy Central which we

643
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: filmed in New York and it was fascinating to us.

644
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: It made you realize that kind of the British entertainment

645
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: industry was like sort of amateur dramatics compared to America,

646
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: where it was an industry. Um, you know, a meeting

647
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: about a show. Here, you're in a room with you know,

648
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: a suit too, suits from the network. In America, you're

649
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: in a room fourteen people and they all have a

650
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: job title. Well you know this. I mean, meetings in

651
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: America are just just stupidly big. I don't know. I

652
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: don't go to a lot of meetings. He I never

653
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: leave my house. It's not it's like almost like a recluse. Um.

654
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: I know what you're saying, because when I've been signed

655
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: by an agency or attempted to be this one in

656
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: branding and marketing and PR and communications and the vice

657
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: president and you know which shows you have seven people.

658
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: And you know I get that, but um, it's interesting

659
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: what you're saying. So and you're talking about a serious

660
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: meeting in the UK. You're going to a serious meeting

661
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: and there are two people in there and you're having

662
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: to I mean if I you know when I when

663
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: I signed my deal with my publishers, you know, there

664
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: were maybe two people there. Um, I just moved to

665
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: a different radio network here and again it was a

666
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: really small deal. You know, I met a couple of

667
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: people on Zoom, I met a couple of people in

668
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: the room and the deal was done. Well that's a

669
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: big one. So you're saying, it just feels like my

670
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: more intense and like Mark five when you get here

671
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: in them it seemed to me that there are all

672
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 1: those people in that room there there so that it's

673
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: nobody's fault when this thing bombs and the network has

674
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: lost millions of dollars, they can all point at each

675
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: other and the chances of everyone surviving are much higher,

676
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 1: Whereas if there are only two people in that room,

677
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: it's somebody's fault the buck. The buck is stopping somewhere,

678
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: Whereas I feel by populating those meetings with all those people,

679
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: it just shifts the blame around. And if it's a hit,

680
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: then everyone gets a little bit of the glow of success.

681
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 1: But if it's a failure, no one's carrying the can particularly,

682
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 1: That's what it seemed like. I find that they're big

683
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: meetings and big people and big email chains in the beginning,

684
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: and if it doesn't do well, dwindles down to like

685
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:03,399
Speaker 1: one or two people that are well. Also because people

686
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 1: aren't invested in anymore, like why bother? I mean? And

687
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: I think the thing about America too, is it turns

688
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: so fast. You know, if if a show isn't performing,

689
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: it's not performing at all, you're gone beyond yeah. Whereas

690
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: here there used to be shows that would come back

691
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: for season after season and you kind of think, how

692
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,959
Speaker 1: no one's watching that show, but now it has become

693
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 1: a bit more kind of cutthroat. But equally, they don't

694
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 1: cancel things. They might try you out in different time

695
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: slots and you die by a thousand cuts, but they

696
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,919
Speaker 1: don't just come in and pull the plug in the way.

697
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: You know that you hear all the stories about people

698
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: who are you know, they're rehearsing their sitcom and then

699
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: suddenly they hear some whispering and people are packing up

700
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 1: one night only literally you one night you could premier

701
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: the next day. They're figuring out their exit strategy. And

702
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: it's really true. It's a very big And that's why

703
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 1: I want to actually get into relevance with you what

704
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 1: that means to. I want to get into cancel culture

705
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: because I don't know what's going on in the UK

706
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: right now in this regard, but what's going on here, Uh,

707
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: I'm one of my books and we all I also

708
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: want to talk about your book. I say, make decisions

709
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: out of truth, not fear, And it sounds like that

710
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: was a big thing that you've done in your career,

711
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:17,800
Speaker 1: made decisions out of truth in the moment. What you

712
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 1: want to do what you love to do, what you're

713
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 1: passionate about. You didn't think about plan B. You just

714
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: this is the truth for you. When something doesn't smell

715
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: right in a business deal, that's the truth for you.

716
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 1: So you're not making a lot of decisions out of fear.

717
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:33,240
Speaker 1: The entire not just entertainment industry, media, entertainment, the world

718
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: corporate is driven right now by fear. And I started

719
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: when I had my talk show, which I wasn't particularly

720
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 1: great at, although I didn't really love it because it

721
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 1: felt like I was directing traffic. If I had the

722
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 1: wrong lipstick on, I can have lipstick again. And it

723
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: was just a rush, and it was a reaction, not action.

724
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 1: It wasn't anything I wanted to do, was what I

725
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 1: was supposed to be doing. And it was very anxiety producing.

726
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: It was me in a box. But that was the beginning,

727
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: and that was a while ago of like what I

728
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 1: understood to be fear, like someone's gonna lose their job,

729
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: it is gonna do well today tomorrow. We are, as

730
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: you said, packing your bags. Now, this is at a

731
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 1: fever pitch. Everyone's terrified to say something, do something, where something,

732
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:21,760
Speaker 1: think something by something, represents something it is fear based

733
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 1: culture right now, So what's going on there? I mean,

734
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like that. I know what you mean.

735
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: I see it happening, but it doesn't seem to happen

736
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,399
Speaker 1: as much here as it does. They're okay, you don't

737
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: feel it like it's on right now. You know, I've

738
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 1: done jokes on my show which I would not do now.

739
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: I will not defend they were from this fat standpoint awful.

740
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: What's great is the world has moved on we were not.

741
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 1: You're not going to do those jokes now, or if

742
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 1: you are, expect people to call you out for them.

743
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: But um, Dave Chappelle would get away with it. It's

744
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,399
Speaker 1: also a positioning and a padging, and what vehicle you're

745
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 1: in a comedy is at risk now because people can't

746
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,720
Speaker 1: you know, people are Chelsea Handler is not actually telling

747
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,399
Speaker 1: all true stories. She says this in her book. It's embellishment,

748
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,240
Speaker 1: it's sense of humor. So now people in movies aren't

749
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: smoking and aren't saying inappropriate things anymore. But there are

750
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: real people in the world saying in appropriate things and smoking.

751
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: So now TV is fake because we are trying to

752
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 1: create this construct. So I get it. But it's this

753
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: weird metal world where you know, you don't know where

754
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: the line is because humor is that is at risk

755
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 1: in certain ways. You know you are, you're scared. I

756
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: would say, what's what's the plus of this? On the

757
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: upside of this, people have to try harder, people have

758
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: to find because actually a lot of the jokes that

759
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: you can't do now are really lazy jokes. They're they're

760
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: very lazy. They're punching down jokes. They're you know, they're

761
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: not admirable. There not worth defending. I mean, you know,

762
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: people go, oh, you can't see anything now, well, why

763
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: did you want to say that? You know, find a

764
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 1: cleverer thing to say, find a more interesting thing to say,

765
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: and don't don't say the first thing, you know. And

766
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: I think that's the upside of all of this. And

767
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: I know what you're saying that, Yes, maybe they're kind

768
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: of sanitizing drama and all that sort of stuff, but

769
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: I think there will always be room for the other

770
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: sort of thing. There'll always be you know, big mainstream

771
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: movies were always glossy. You know, when you see someone

772
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: living in there there are a students are living in

773
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 1: a New York apartment and you think, oh, piss off, like,

774
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 1: are you a multi millionaire to live in that apartment? Um?

775
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,280
Speaker 1: And then there'll be an indie movie where they lived

776
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: in the actual apartment that student would live in. There's

777
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: always been a disconnect between what drama really is. It's

778
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: never been real, it's never been the actual world. It

779
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: reflects something that an audience finds palatable. I would say, so,

780
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: I think that's just shifting and the other thing. The

781
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 1: other thing I'm saying, I find this with my friends

782
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: as well. If you fight all of this, it's very aging.

783
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,399
Speaker 1: You seem quite old. If you sucked all this, it's

784
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 1: much easier just to go with it because the people

785
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: who aren't complaining about this are young people. This is

786
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: the world that young people are building for themselves that

787
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 1: they want to live in, and we're just kind of

788
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: the old dinosaurs wandering around and bumping into furniture. There

789
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 1: were lots of moments we woun go, oh, forgot that?

790
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 1: What you can't say that now you can't do this?

791
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 1: But who cares? Really? So anyway, UM, do you care

792
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: about being relevant? Like at this point in your career,

793
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: do you think about packing it up? Do you think

794
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 1: about went to hold them and went to fold them,

795
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: And are you like Joan Rivers cared how full her

796
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 1: calendar was. It was part of how she well validated herself,

797
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: how she measured her her life. It was her identity. Yeah,

798
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,359
Speaker 1: part of your identity. And I wonder about that. You know,

799
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: the times I've come close to not working, the times

800
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,399
Speaker 1: I've come close to losing things, you kind of think, wow,

801
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: how much of me is this job? And I think

802
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: I'll be Okay, that's my that's that's what that's what

803
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 1: I hope. Um. I remember when I went to America.

804
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: I've you've been successful here for I don't know, four

805
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: or five years, and I remember getting off the plane

806
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:26,479
Speaker 1: in America thinking I wonder if I'll miss being well known,

807
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: And it turns out I didn't. I really didn't. I

808
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 1: quite liked it. How anonymous is it here? And is

809
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: it you can't walk out of your house in the UK?

810
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I will still meet people who

811
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: don't have a TV or whatever. They won't know who

812
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: I am. But you know, I've been on TV here

813
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: for twenty five years, so people do know who I am. UM.

814
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 1: In America, you know, I bump into the odd person

815
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: who knows who I am. But I might go on

816
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: the street because if we had a context too, are

817
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: you in the UK? I might? If I were here,

818
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: I wouldn't expect to see you here. Yea. So for me,

819
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: America's lovely because I'm not really known there. But and

820
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 1: this is an awful thing to say. Well, I don't

821
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 1: know it's okay to say on this, but but I

822
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 1: still have the money. Yeah, which is I think it

823
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: was Billy Crystal. You know, people say to him, oh,

824
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 1: I'd love to be rich and famous, and he always

825
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 1: says tribing rich first, And I think that's such a uh.

826
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,320
Speaker 1: When you see people with lots of money then attempting

827
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: to become famous, you guys think, why are you doing that?

828
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 1: You have you have the good bit, you have the

829
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,479
Speaker 1: great bit already. By the way, I can name five

830
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,879
Speaker 1: people that are so thirsty because it just bothers them

831
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 1: that they couldn't nail this part. It's you know, neither

832
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 1: part is easy. But some people who have money, it

833
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 1: drives them crazy that they can't nail this relevant faint part.

834
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: And I know some of them personally, who when I

835
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: was totally broken, totally poor, you treat me like I

836
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: was nobody and they were super rich, so they were

837
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 1: somebody and now they kiss my ask because all they

838
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: want is some of that shine. And it really it's

839
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: better to be wealthy and then famous by every stretch

840
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: of imagination, just um, who were your greatest guests for

841
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,760
Speaker 1: whatever reason? Like what are the funniest, greatest, most entertaining

842
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: our best shows or guests, the peak guests. And for me,

843
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 1: the big ones are like there are some just big

844
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: stars who are great at being guests. And there because

845
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 1: sometimes I do my job, sometimes I ask the right questions,

846
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 1: I've set the mood, I bring the best out of somebody,

847
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: and I feel like, oh yeah, I did a good job.

848
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 1: Then there's the guests to come on and like this

849
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,479
Speaker 1: chair could be empty, they'd be a great guest. So

850
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: like the Tom Hanks, the Will Smiths, those people they

851
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:46,879
Speaker 1: are so good at it, so good at making you

852
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: believe that they love being Tom Hanks. They really enjoy

853
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,919
Speaker 1: being Will Smith and they never let light in on that.

854
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 1: And that is such a skill and it really it

855
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 1: explains why they're huge stars and a still huge stars.

856
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 1: I mean Tom Cruise is another one who Tom Cruise

857
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 1: like he does this thing well, it's basically he's very

858
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 1: good at being Tom Cruise. When he arrives at the

859
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: studio and he gets out of the car and you know,

860
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: Katherine the line producer meets him. Hi, I'm Catherine, this

861
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:25,399
Speaker 1: is so and so. This is Pete the researcher, This

862
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 1: is John the guest booker. He shakes their hands, he

863
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 1: comes in, he does the show to when he's leaving,

864
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 1: Bye bye, Catherine, thank you so much. Where's Pete? Where's

865
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: there's Pete? Hi, Pete, Thank you so much. Of that. Now,

866
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 1: that's a trick. He learned how to do that. I

867
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:44,399
Speaker 1: haven't learned how to do it. I haven't bothered. And

868
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: it means those people who work on my show love him.

869
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:53,320
Speaker 1: They would crawl over broken glass for him. They adore him.

870
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 1: Great note for people, by the way, when you're going

871
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 1: to interviews, when you're meeting with people, doesn't have to

872
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 1: be in the entertainment industry. Great note. He take people's names,

873
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,359
Speaker 1: follow ups and the muffin basket, things like that. That's

874
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 1: a huge one, and those little moments are noted and meaningful.

875
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: But maybe you'll do it more because I'm going to

876
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 1: do what you just said about Catherine. And you know,

877
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,280
Speaker 1: sometimes you're in your own head and you're so busy

878
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 1: and you're just moving forward and you've got all this

879
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: information and data and you don't realize that you may

880
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: be thinking, oh, there's that person, but you're not saying

881
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 1: it out loud, you know what I mean? Sometimes I

882
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: get off the phone and I don't even say goodbye

883
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: because the conversation's over, and I you know, those those

884
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: moments are meaningful. I think they probably are very helpful

885
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 1: in business, because you've just mentioned it. Yeah, no, I

886
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: mean it's like, um. Lady Gaga was on the show

887
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 1: and at the end of her rehearsal she said, oh,

888
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:44,399
Speaker 1: could everyone stop, could have a moment and you could

889
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,879
Speaker 1: imagine everything just like rolling her eyes, going oh God,

890
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 1: what does she want now? And it was to thank everybody.

891
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 1: She wanted to thank all the technical people, all the

892
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: art department, everything who had helped to make this performance

893
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: possible and those people appreciated that so much. And talking

894
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 1: about the basket of muffins. Normally, if people send something

895
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,479
Speaker 1: to the show, they'll send it to me, or they'll

896
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: send it to the executive producer. She sent stuff to

897
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 1: the people who made her stuff happen. I'm saying I'm

898
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: a big, big, big, big gift sender. There is never

899
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,919
Speaker 1: not a gift list going on. It's I'm a gifter.

900
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: I love because it's thoughtful. Last week, I got a

901
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 1: great reservation in Miami. That's a hard reservation. What was

902
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 1: her name? Put her on the gift list? Like I

903
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: love the gift. It may not be I may not

904
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 1: have a gift of remembering everyone's name or saying hello

905
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: or goodbye, but I have the gift of thanking. Um.

906
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: So what about your peaks and your peak and your

907
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: low of your career? What was the road? I call

908
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 1: it the rose and the thorn, your rose of your

909
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 1: career and the thorn of your career? Um? The I

910
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 1: mean getting the chat show was the rose of my career.

911
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 1: I mean that was because you know everyone who wants

912
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: their big break, you want your big break, you want

913
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 1: your big break, and that's what you're striving for. What

914
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: I get my big break? And I was very aware

915
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,720
Speaker 1: that getting my own talk show was my big break.

916
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 1: But then there's this awful moment that you realize if

917
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 1: this big break goes wrong, if this bombs I am

918
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:15,760
Speaker 1: so much further back than I was the moment before

919
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 1: that big break, because now I'm the guy trailing failure.

920
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 1: Before I was the unknown, full of possibility if only

921
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 1: someone took a chance on me. And I remember the

922
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,320
Speaker 1: only kind of I think it was a panic attack.

923
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 1: The only thing I've ever had like that was in

924
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,959
Speaker 1: the lead up to the beginning of the talk show,

925
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: where I had to really calm myself down and kind

926
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 1: of talk about, you know, the worst case scenario, what

927
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 1: would I do if this thing was a disaster? Da

928
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 1: da da da. And from then on I was okay.

929
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:49,919
Speaker 1: And also I was okay because the show did well.

930
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't have to. I didn't have to

931
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: navigate the worst case scenario. And so that's the rose

932
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 1: and the thorn was the lead up. Now, what was it, No,

933
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 1: I would say the thorn. The thorn, I suppose was

934
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: when I came back from America and I was kind

935
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 1: of scrabbling around and I didn't have a show, um,

936
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 1: and that was hard, and that's where things could have

937
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: really just that could have been you know, the final

938
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 1: chapter in my career. Yeah, that could have been just that.

939
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 1: And then after that i'd have just muddled through and done,

940
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 1: you know, little bits and bobs, and you know, I

941
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:29,240
Speaker 1: just still got gigs. But I but having the big

942
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: flagship talk show on BBC one. There's no reason why

943
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 1: that should have happened. But in that moment, the money

944
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 1: wasn't the thing because you had the money and that

945
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: moment the relevance and the fame. So there is a

946
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: little bit of something to that. You know, I'm saying

947
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 1: that your bank account was cool. Yeah, And also I

948
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 1: think here's a thing. Um. When I was at Chapel four,

949
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,240
Speaker 1: I got offered to switch to the BBC, a different network,

950
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 1: and they showed me that the deal, the shows they

951
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 1: wanted me to do, and I said, no, I don't

952
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: want to do that. Two weeks later I got a

953
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:03,279
Speaker 1: call for my so excited. The deal was back. But

954
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 1: now the money was I can't remember what they've done

955
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 1: to the money. I mean they it was just multiples more.

956
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 1: It was a huge amount of money. And you know,

957
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 1: everyone's very excited because everyone's going to get their percentage

958
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,439
Speaker 1: of that money and I'm going to get the bulk

959
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 1: of that money, and you know, and you don't want

960
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 1: to do And then what I did was I thought, well,

961
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 1: hang on, that's the deal I said no to. I

962
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:27,919
Speaker 1: said no to that deal, and the only thing that's

963
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 1: changed is the money. And actually that's not enough. Those

964
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:35,359
Speaker 1: shows I didn't want to do them two weeks ago,

965
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: and the money hasn't made those shows better. Okay, so

966
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 1: that's very interesting. When I left The Housewives, everyone thought

967
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: that I was leaving because I didn't get enough money,

968
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: and I said no, I would have been staying for

969
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 1: the money. The only reason I was going to stay

970
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:53,839
Speaker 1: was for the money. But it's funny and you're saying

971
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 1: that because you would have been staying or doing it

972
00:49:56,360 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: for the money, not art, and that dangerous game to

973
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: be playing. That feels like the last heist in a

974
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 1: heist movie, you go back into the last one and

975
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 1: that's when you get jammed up. And also, the thing is, though,

976
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: I'm now fifty eight, so you know my career is

977
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: going in one direction. I'm I am. You know, I'm

978
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 1: coasting towards some sort of retirement. So now, if somebody

979
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: brought me some shows I didn't want to do, then

980
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 1: two weeks later, up to the price to gazillions, I

981
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 1: probably would say yes, because I would think who cares for?

982
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: Depending on the effort level, and you'r R o I.

983
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: I talk about that bucket. It's on the bucket. I

984
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,399
Speaker 1: would rather have fewer buckets full. So I don't want

985
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: to do twelve things halfway. I'd rather do six that

986
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: are very lucrative or rewarding. You're getting an R o I.

987
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 1: So it depends for you on your time. As you

988
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 1: get older, you realize your time is way more valuable

989
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 1: how I feel your physical and mental health. So it

990
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: depends upon the time that something is going to take you.

991
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:01,319
Speaker 1: And also, I'm lucky in that I've got things that

992
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 1: I do that don't make much money, like the books

993
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 1: and stuff which I really enjoy. So if I'm doing

994
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: a big cash gig that I'm not loving, but it

995
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 1: pays for everything, I'm still able to do the things

996
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 1: I do love. I understand. And that's a bounce for

997
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 1: people to decide about the book. First of all, I

998
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 1: love the look of the book, and it's important now

999
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 1: because people don't read as much. I just like the

1000
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 1: way that your book looks. So can you tell us

1001
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 1: about your book Home Stread? Right, it's called home Stretch

1002
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 1: home starch as the new one. What's weird about the

1003
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: books is that's not what my name is on them.

1004
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 1: But it's not the Graham Norton you expect. They're quite serious,

1005
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: they're quite dark. They're set in rural Ireland um and

1006
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: I really enjoy writing them. And luckily here they have

1007
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 1: found an audience. And I wasn't sure whether they would,

1008
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 1: because you know, I think people would come to these

1009
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,319
Speaker 1: books thinking they're going to be funny, thinking they might

1010
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: be said in the world of media, or they might

1011
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: be said in London. Are they be glamorous or gossipy

1012
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,839
Speaker 1: or whatever, And they're so not that they're kind of

1013
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 1: understated and arc and and Homestretch is the third one,

1014
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 1: and actually it opens up a bit. About a third

1015
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 1: of the story is in New York, is in Manhattan

1016
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: and nyack Um is set there where one of the

1017
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 1: characters kind of leaves Ireland and has a life in

1018
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 1: America like so many Irish people do. And and but

1019
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 1: eventually he does go back. And it starts with a

1020
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 1: terrible car crash. And it's something that happens. I'm sure

1021
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:26,879
Speaker 1: it happens everywhere, but certainly in Ireland. You hear about

1022
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 1: it where during the summer months, kids, the overconfidence of

1023
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: youth maybe there's drink involved their reckless driving crash. And

1024
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: what I noticed is, you know, young people die in

1025
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:43,359
Speaker 1: these crashes, but often the driver survives. And I just thought,

1026
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 1: what happens to that kid? What happens to that kid.

1027
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 1: He's hardly started his life and already he's blighted it

1028
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 1: because he's in this small town. Everyone knows him. He

1029
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:56,840
Speaker 1: has killed his friends, he has killed his parents, friends, children.

1030
00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 1: So and that happens, you know, relatively often, and I

1031
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 1: just thought, how does that kid go on with their life?

1032
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 1: What happens? And so that was the start of this book,

1033
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: and it does. It tells the story of Connor, the

1034
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 1: driver and what he does. And then oddly it's also

1035
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 1: kind of the story of Ireland because Ireland over the

1036
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: last thirty years has become this weirdly liberal place. You know,

1037
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:22,800
Speaker 1: it was the first place on Earth where a public vote,

1038
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 1: a referendum, brought in gay marriage. It wasn't legislation, it

1039
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 1: was the people of Ireland. To me, that is its

1040
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 1: own separate brand and it's entirely different. You have to

1041
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 1: brand that as the different brand from the gritty Irish,

1042
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:39,920
Speaker 1: tortured writer brand um. Last thing I want to know

1043
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 1: is uh, your relationship to relationships? Is it important to you?

1044
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:49,320
Speaker 1: Do you want to have that lifelong connection? What what

1045
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 1: matters to you as it pertains to the category of

1046
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 1: relationships and as that connects to a career, Well, it's

1047
00:53:55,000 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: I think my career has probably hampered relationships. I would say, um, one,

1048
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 1: I've probably prioritized my career over relationships. And to you know,

1049
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 1: it's quite difficult to date some guy on TV because

1050
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:15,840
Speaker 1: particularly I think if I was straight, I feel like

1051
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:18,359
Speaker 1: a woman in my life would have a role. There

1052
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 1: would be things for her to do. You know, she

1053
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: could be a hostess, she could be a mother, she

1054
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: could be you know, do all those things. But for

1055
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 1: another man, it's quite emasculating to be the other half

1056
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 1: of this creature on television. So I think that's difficult.

1057
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,799
Speaker 1: But by the way, I understand what you're saying. And

1058
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 1: for me, being a woman with this kind of a career,

1059
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 1: think about what that's like to be a man with

1060
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:46,359
Speaker 1: a woman About how successful. Um, you've got to find

1061
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 1: the right person who can deal with that and find

1062
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,439
Speaker 1: their own identity and value in their own success, which

1063
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 1: is not that easy. No one can prepare you for

1064
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 1: what it's like to go out with you where suddenly

1065
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:01,279
Speaker 1: you're at cocktail part ease and that person has been

1066
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 1: elbowed out of the way, or that being asked to

1067
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:07,279
Speaker 1: hold coats or great, and I never go out, so

1068
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 1: he doesn't experience it that much, but he doesn't. Like.

1069
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:11,959
Speaker 1: We went into a store looks good store, really major store,

1070
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 1: and he brought me something really major and the salesperson

1071
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 1: did not look at him who had the credit card

1072
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 1: and was paying for it, like, did not even acknowledge

1073
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:23,319
Speaker 1: his presence. And it really piste him off because I mean,

1074
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 1: the man, he was spending a lot of money and

1075
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 1: he was like the man at least look. I made

1076
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:29,440
Speaker 1: him feel like shit, you know, And it makes me

1077
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 1: then feel uncomfortable. And I get what you're saying. It's

1078
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 1: very great. It chips away at you, and you know

1079
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 1: you're fine once you're find twice the tenth time you

1080
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:42,319
Speaker 1: just think I can't, I cannot do this I and

1081
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 1: I get that, I understand it, but I'm not sure

1082
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 1: what the you or the I can do about it.

1083
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: And yet somehow it's our fault. I think you find yes,

1084
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 1: But more than that, I think it's also just the

1085
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 1: all consuming nature of this level of a career, and

1086
00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 1: if you're a person like me, who really it's part

1087
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:01,840
Speaker 1: of who I am, as much as being an amazing

1088
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 1: present mother, as much as being a recluse, never in

1089
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 1: hair or makeup and o reads at home. I am

1090
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 1: addicted to the idea. I love the idea, I love

1091
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 1: the execution, I love the creativity, I love the medium,

1092
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:13,840
Speaker 1: I love the vehicle. That is very much part of

1093
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:15,839
Speaker 1: who I am. So you have to be honest about

1094
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: who you are. Hopefully find find a partner who has

1095
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,279
Speaker 1: enough to fulfills them, and you don't fix them. I

1096
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 1: work on myself. Someone on the show taught me, you

1097
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 1: work on yourself, you don't work on them. Let them

1098
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 1: work on themselves, and that people need to give each

1099
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:32,320
Speaker 1: other space and a long leash. I've learned that too.

1100
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 1: If I'm the crazy one, he's the boring one, Let

1101
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 1: him be the boring one. Go to sleep a ton o'clock,

1102
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 1: I'll have fun after ten o'clock, or I'll go on

1103
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:39,720
Speaker 1: vacation with my friends. To not want the other person

1104
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:43,240
Speaker 1: to like fulfill those voids that you have, I've always

1105
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 1: sort of made that mistake. Yeah, as long as they're

1106
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,800
Speaker 1: fulfilling something. Um So there has to be somewhere in between.

1107
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 1: You're engaged, you found it, I'm not still in the

1108
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:53,759
Speaker 1: I'm always gonna be a work in progress. And it

1109
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:56,920
Speaker 1: sounds like to you at this time, it's not a priority,

1110
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 1: like it's not exactly what you want. You don't know

1111
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 1: that it's right for you. And that's absolutely also great

1112
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:05,399
Speaker 1: and liberating and more current than before. And what I'm

1113
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 1: talking about, as it pertains to me is also feeling

1114
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 1: current that it's not like if I have a long

1115
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 1: distance relationship, which I do, it used to feel like

1116
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 1: there were optics to that that were wrong, or there

1117
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 1: were things that I was supposed to do or jam

1118
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: in the time. Now it's feeling like it breathes, it lives.

1119
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:22,880
Speaker 1: I have a quadrant with my daughter alone. I love

1120
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 1: that I have time with my Beyonce alone. I love

1121
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: that I have time when we're together with his kids.

1122
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 1: I love that his time alone with his kids. I

1123
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 1: love that it used to be like we're supposed to

1124
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 1: be one person, We're supposed to be codependent, We're supposed

1125
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 1: to do everything together. What are we eating, what are

1126
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 1: we doing? Where we going? And I found that I

1127
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 1: like it this way and that's okay. Yeah, It's like

1128
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 1: the thing is that relationships are a covered dish. You often,

1129
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 1: you know, you look at couples and think, how does

1130
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 1: that work? And then you look at couples you think

1131
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 1: must be happy, and of course they're the ones who aren't.

1132
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 1: So you cannot second guess what's going on in a

1133
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 1: relationship between two people. If it works, it works. If

1134
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 1: it doesn't, it doesn't got to work for you exactly. Yeah.

1135
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 1: Um wow, I can't wait to like have a reason

1136
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 1: to be in the UK and have been relevant enough

1137
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 1: to be on your show and just laugh with you

1138
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 1: on that couch with you in one of your wacky

1139
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 1: out That would be like an honor at some point. Um,

1140
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:18,360
Speaker 1: although I never leave the house. As you know, you're wonderful, interesting. Well,

1141
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 1: thank you so much, Thank you Graham so much. Um,

1142
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 1: I appreciate you. Thank you very much. Cheers to hear yourself.

1143
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 1: So Graham Norton's interview was different because it seems like

1144
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 1: he's sort of just allowed the process in life. Jonathan

1145
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 1: Adler was a little bit like this, where I kept

1146
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 1: trying to grip onto Okay, what is it, why are

1147
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 1: you successful? Where is the toolbox like, and Graham's sort

1148
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 1: of like letting the process flow, allowing the magic to

1149
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 1: happen around him and putting one step in front of

1150
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 1: the other. And it's different. It's definitely different, more than

1151
00:58:57,560 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 1: everybody else who's just like, no, you have to do this,

1152
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 1: you have to set yourself up for success with to

1153
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 1: be prepared. Graham's more chill about it. Like I said,

1154
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 1: certain people go with the flow, and maybe they've experienced

1155
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 1: law and they allowed the process to take its own form.

1156
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 1: I'm the opposite I, and you have to design who

1157
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 1: you are. I basically set myself up for success that

1158
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 1: I make things happen. It seems like Graham is smart

1159
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 1: and knows what he doesn't want to do and how

1160
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 1: to follow his gut instinct, but he's allowed the process

1161
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:34,160
Speaker 1: to unfold. He very well could have been not successful

1162
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 1: as likely as being successful, according to him, like, it

1163
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 1: could have very well not happened. And I think the

1164
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:44,919
Speaker 1: same thing for myself. But he just doesn't seem as

1165
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 1: hungry and thirsty as many people are, which is relaxing

1166
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 1: and interesting because he's been successful and on television for

1167
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 1: so long. But you can tell he likes to be

1168
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:56,960
Speaker 1: relevant and he wants to stay at the front of

1169
00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 1: the pack. So there's just interesting combinations where so driven,

1170
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 1: but the minute that the shine fades, I'm walking away.

1171
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 1: I'm cool with that. Like the minute that the tables

1172
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 1: go cold, I'm walking away, I'm not, you know, holding on.

1173
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: I don't care if I'm relevant not relevant. So it's

1174
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:14,800
Speaker 1: just interesting the different recipe that you see in all

1175
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:18,440
Speaker 1: of these different people to success. So Graham definitely stood

1176
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 1: at as being unique in a more relaxed way, in

1177
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 1: a lace a fair way, but not in a lazy

1178
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 1: fair way as it pertains to his show and staying

1179
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 1: at the top. Just Be is hosted an executive produced

1180
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 1: by me Bethany Frankel. Just Be is a production of

1181
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 1: The Real Productions and My Heart Radio. Our Managing Producer

1182
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:49,200
Speaker 1: is Fiona Smith and our producer is Stephanie Stender. Our

1183
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 1: EP is Morgan Lea Boy. To catch more moments from

1184
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 1: the show, follow us on Instagram and just Be with

1185
01:00:54,720 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 1: Bethanie Ti