1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Quody Dinas, but Joseph's gotten more. A couple of years back, 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: I had a television producer reach out to me and listen, 3 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: I'm going to give you a little dirty inside secret here. Yeah. 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: I get these calls right from various producers with these 5 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: different platforms that are out there, and they say, hey, 6 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:29,639 Speaker 1: we're looking for a forensics guy, hoping you could join 7 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: us and come to this location and here read over 8 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: this document and we want you to make an appearance. 9 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: You know. It's like where you're a talking head, and 10 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: sometimes I'll even go out to scenes. But there was 11 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:48,639 Speaker 1: one that had actually intrigued me that I was supposed 12 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: to be going to and it never happened. As a 13 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: matter of fact, if you tune in, I think this year, 14 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: I'm actually on for like the third or fourth year 15 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: in a row on Buried in the Backyard on Oxygen, 16 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: and they had they had me going to Detroit because 17 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: there was a body that was actually buried in a basement. 18 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: I've never been to Detroit, and it gets a bad rap, 19 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: I know, and maybe justly I have no idea, but 20 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: I've always wanted to go because I've always been fascinated 21 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: with cars and just that world up there just to 22 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: see it, but it didn't happen. But you know, today 23 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about some cases, and I say 24 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: cases that originate out of Detroit that I have just 25 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: found out about, and it involves a house again and 26 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: possibly abasement. The only difference is is that these remains 27 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:53,559 Speaker 1: are not buried. And guess what the cause of death 28 00:01:54,640 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: involves a hammer. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is 29 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: body bags, David. I want to tell you a story 30 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: real quick, one of the worst cases. And I say worst, 31 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:19,119 Speaker 1: it's you know, that's highly subjective, okay, but I think 32 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: that there are cases out there that I handled as 33 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,959 Speaker 1: an investigator that kind of sent a chill up my 34 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: spond because I would see I wouldn't just see the 35 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: victims dead at the scene, and that they're like, you know, 36 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 1: subjects that I have to examine every now and then 37 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: I'd see a peak of humanity that would come through. 38 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: And this case that I'm referring to right now is 39 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: something I worked on, and it did involve three guys 40 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: and they were all forced to sit on a love seat, 41 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: which generally accommodates two people, right, and these are grown 42 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: men this is a drug hit. I've never had anything 43 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 1: like this. And they were made to interlock arms at 44 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: the elbows, and each one of them were executed. They 45 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: were each shot in the forehead with a three point 46 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: fifty seven magnum. Now that's a revolver, and I've seen 47 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: a lot of bloody scenes, but I've never seen anything 48 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:27,239 Speaker 1: with this kind of projected deposition. Because each one of 49 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: these rounds on, all three of these guys exited, and 50 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: it painted the walls all behind them and on the 51 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: back of the love seat, and they were leaning into 52 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: one another. And I always thought, you know, a revolver 53 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: is not a semi automatic weapon, so it takes a 54 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: bit longer to actuate the trigger. You know, it's double action. 55 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: So you pull the trigger, the revolver portion of it, 56 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: the cylinder actually spins, and then the hammer drops and 57 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: this is done over and over. And I thought, well, 58 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: if you're the first guy, it's kind of merciful, but 59 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: if you're the third guy, you know it's coming. And 60 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: that it got me into that mindset with that case. 61 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: And you know, for years, I've still thought about that case. 62 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: Into the best of my knowledge. That case has never 63 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: been solved. 64 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 2: We're gonna have to look that one up. 65 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, no kidding. And so when stay arm 66 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 3: in arm were they still linked when the bodies were found. 67 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: They were still linked. And that's why I always thought 68 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: it was a drug hit. And I'm not going to 69 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: go into the organization that it was linked to at 70 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: the time, but I've always felt as though there were 71 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: like because these guys were big dudes. Man, I've always 72 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: thought that there was like a large group of people 73 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: that were in the room, because how are you going 74 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: to force three guys to interlock arms and sit in 75 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: that one position. If there's one guy holding a gun 76 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: on you, you would think that the other two could get 77 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: up and bomb rush the guy. That didn't happen. I 78 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: always thought that there was like a group of people 79 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: and dude, there was weed everywhere apartment and they were 80 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: making they were making blunts. Blunts are the cigars where 81 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: you pull out the tobacco and you restuff it with weed. 82 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: And apparently they were what's it called they were shorting 83 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: the supplier, like they were not paying over their due 84 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 1: to the supplier. And you know, this is what wound 85 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 1: up happening. But you know, the case that we're covering 86 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,679 Speaker 1: out of Detroit today. I'm not going to say it's 87 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: equally as horrific because I wasn't at this house in Detroit, 88 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: but I got to tell you it kind of had 89 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: echoes in my brain as we were reading over this. 90 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 3: It's interesting that this this case actually began with police 91 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 3: on a missing person's case. The police show up on 92 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 3: the south side of Detroit in and they're looking for 93 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 3: a missing person. And while they're asking neighbors. It's an 94 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 3: old neighborhood. As a matter of fact, one of the 95 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 3: neighbors has been there for sixty years, other has been 96 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 3: there for twelve, So you're talking people who know one another. 97 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 3: They know one another's routines. And when the police were talking, 98 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 3: while they're trying to find out about the missing person, 99 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 3: somebody walks up to him and he says he has 100 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 3: just been assaulted. The man does this guy has just 101 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 3: been beating me with a hammer. And by the way, 102 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,280 Speaker 3: there's some dead bodies in that house right there. He 103 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 3: points to the house that they're standing in front of 104 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 3: the cops like, wait a minute, I did beat you 105 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 3: with a hammer, yeah, and now there's dead bodies in 106 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:35,239 Speaker 3: that house. 107 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 2: Yep. 108 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 3: And so the police go into the house Joe, and 109 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 3: the home was on Edsel Street and being Detroit for 110 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 3: motor company the Edzel. I wonder how many other streets 111 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 3: are named like that. I don't I have no. 112 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: Idea fair Lane anyway, I don't know. Yeah, there's Lane a. 113 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 2: Movie in the early nineties. Right. 114 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 3: At any rate, the man tells the officers about the 115 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 3: dead guys in the house, So the officers go inside. Now, 116 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 3: to be honest with you, they don't really know what 117 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,239 Speaker 3: they're walking into. They just know that this guy claims 118 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 3: he was beaten, he's been assaulted, and there's dead bodies 119 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 3: in the house. The police described this Joe in such 120 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 3: a way that I made a note to ask you 121 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 3: about it, because I don't recall seeing police officers when 122 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 3: they tell you about a crime scene. They might talk 123 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 3: about very obvious evidence. They might give you an idea 124 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 3: of where a victim was standing or laying when they 125 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 3: were found, give you a basic lay of the land, 126 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 3: But rarely did they go so far as to describe 127 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 3: blood or even the extents of the brutality that you're 128 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 3: walking into. 129 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 2: Again, this is. 130 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 3: Just what normal police, how they talk to the press, 131 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 3: and what have you in this particular case, Joe. The 132 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 3: police described this as the victims were brutally assaulted, their 133 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 3: bodies wrapped in towels and carpeting. And actually it wasn't 134 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 3: tows and carpeting. Some of it was just old clothing. 135 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 3: It was just nasty stuff. But there was blood everywhere. 136 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 3: The bodies were in the basement, but they had been 137 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 3: dead for at least a day, Joe, and there was 138 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 3: blood everywhere. Now, if police know people are dead, you 139 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 3: know in this case, they're not going anywhere and we've 140 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 3: got a massively bloody crime scene. Is that when you 141 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 3: get the call to come in or do they Is 142 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 3: there another pathway to that? 143 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: No? No, that would be when we would come in. 144 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: That call would be initiated with in a case like this. 145 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 1: The beat officer that responded, he wouldn't even have to 146 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: wait to call the detectives and say, hey, should I 147 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: call the medical examiner. And by the way, they've got 148 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: a fantastic medical examiner's office in Detroit. As matter of fact, 149 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: that's the home of the home of the man that 150 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: we did a profile on, m Doctor Werner Spitz. He 151 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 1: was the chief MEE in Detroit. I think that's is 152 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: that wing? I think that's Wayne County. So yeah, they've 153 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 1: got a great reputation up there. But yeah, the EMMY 154 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: would have been notified. I would imagine by the beat unit, 155 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: the uniform officer out there. They would have said, look, 156 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: get me the emmy, get me CID, and get me 157 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: crime scene and route immediately forthwith as they say, and 158 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: they would have locked this thing down. The good thing 159 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: about it is with a scene like CID, c IDEA 160 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: is Criminal Investigation Division, and you'll see, you'll hear CID. 161 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: But in Detroit they actually have a homicide division. Many 162 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: people don't understand that even medium sized police departments, they 163 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: don't have homicide detectives. They will have it's broken down 164 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: into two groups. Many times they'll have crimes against persons 165 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: and crimes against property, and so the detectives that work 166 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: crimes against persons will do assaults, batteries, sexual assault, rate 167 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: and homicide okay, and then crimes property you know, might 168 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: be burglary, car theft, any number of things like that, 169 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,839 Speaker 1: because they don't they don't have enough personnel to sub specialize. 170 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: You get into a larger department like Detroit and they've 171 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: got a very well known homicide bureau. Okay, do you 172 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: remember old dragnet Joe Friday would say it was a 173 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 1: Friday and I was working out of the Robbery homicide division, 174 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: you know. And so robbery has always been considered a 175 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: violent crime. It's a personal crime. Robbery is different than burglary. 176 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: So robbery means that you are taking physically taking something 177 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: from somebody, and so that's indicative of the personal crime there. 178 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: So yeah, so and it's interchangeable. You'll hear people say CID, 179 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 1: You'll hear people say homicide. In this case, I probably 180 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: even spoke. He's probably going to call the homicide division 181 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: and they're going to roll out there. And in this 182 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: type of situation, I would imagine that once the detective 183 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: arrives and the EMMY investigator is there, they're going to 184 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 1: do what is called an initial scene walkthrough. That means 185 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:19,319 Speaker 1: you're not necessarily going to take any photographs, you're not 186 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: going to do any kind of measurements. It'll be the 187 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: EMMY investigator, the detective, and probably the first responding officer, 188 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: and you will do a very cursory walk through the scene. 189 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: And that way you can get that space kind of 190 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: organized in your brain, you see what I'm saying, and 191 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: then you step back out. Now, this is going to 192 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: be in the wake of probably ordering up a warrant, 193 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: to have the warrant written up because and then they'll 194 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: do do the walk through at that point in time, 195 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: because you can't really search a scene without a warrant. 196 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if bodies are there. There is no 197 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: there is no constitutional exception for homicide, which is something 198 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: that people need to get into their brain. And you 199 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: people that lose their minds over this thing. They think 200 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: that just because just because there's a dead body at 201 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 1: the scene, that the constitution suddenly melts away. 202 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 2: It doesn't. 203 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, it needs to be further 204 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,959 Speaker 1: enforced at that point in time. But so that's kind 205 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: of the that's kind of what happens. And when you 206 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: would walk into this, when I would do initial scene walkthroughs, 207 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: it really steadies your mind and gives you an idea 208 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: as to what I'm going to be faced with. And 209 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: there might be certain things you see in there that 210 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:38,479 Speaker 1: when you exit, before you actually do start your investigation internally, 211 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: you might have to call on other resources, like do 212 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: I have enough lights? For instance, we're in a basement. 213 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:46,319 Speaker 1: Does this house even have electricity or were going to 214 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: have to call the fire department to bring a light 215 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: truck out. Does cromp scene have portable lights that can 216 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: put up? Where can we position them so we're not 217 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: going to disrupt any kind of evidence? Do I need 218 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,319 Speaker 1: to call specialists in forensics? You know those sorts of things. 219 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: Do I have all the tools that I need with 220 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: me to process that scene? And it's not just one body, Dave. 221 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: We're talking about three bodies here, all right, and according 222 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: to what we're hearing, there's been an effort to hide 223 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: these bodies. Okay, it's not like they're sitting on the 224 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 1: front porch, all right. And I'm not being disrespectful by 225 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: saying that somebody has gone and taken these bodies and 226 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: placed them into this basement. And I would imagine that 227 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: before the detective when they arrive after having heard this 228 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: story from this police officer that it was first reported 229 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: to believing had to be seen, Dave. When it comes 230 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: to hammers, I've had a fascination. I have to My 231 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,559 Speaker 1: inner nerd comes out, and this is why it does. 232 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: I don't people, you know, people will ask me, you 233 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: know what true crime shows do you watch? You know, 234 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: what what things do you listen to? And you know, 235 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: podcasts and all that stuff. And no insult to any 236 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: of my colleagues out there in the world of true crime. 237 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: I don't. I just don't. I do it so much 238 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: and I love doing it. But when I when I 239 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: watched stuff, you know, Kim, You'll say, what are you 240 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: watching on YouTube? I'm like, it's a medieval history thing. 241 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: It's just say, how do you watch that? And one 242 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: of the things that that I do enjoy watching is 243 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: is kind of the story of England and France and 244 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: their development and also their the armor that there that 245 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: their armies wore, some of the weapons and things. You know. 246 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: The hammer itself is an ancient weapon that has been used. 247 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: I don't know since well, I'll put it to you 248 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: this way. I don't think he necessarily had a hammer. 249 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 1: If you've ever heard of Judah Accabe, who's a grand 250 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: hero of of of the Jews, I think and uh uh, 251 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: I've got a rabbi friend out there in in Mobile, Alabama. 252 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: Big shout out to him. I hope, I hope him 253 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: I'm saying this correctly. Rabbi, the word or the name 254 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: maccabee I think actually translates roughly uh in Hebrew to hammer, 255 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: and it's almost like hammer of God. And so the 256 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: name has been around for a while. 257 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 2: We have. 258 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: The prevalence of the weapon. You've got it going back 259 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: as far as like the fourth or fifth century uh 260 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: In uh in in the Common era. But you know, 261 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: the hammer itself came in two forms, the war hammer. 262 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: You had a shorter war hammer that guys on horseback 263 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: the cavalry would carry and guess what it had, Dave 264 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: as we developed armor, it had a bike on one end, 265 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: and then it had the blunted edge. So the idea 266 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: was to with the blunted edge, you would concuss the 267 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: person like you would strike them in the head and 268 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: kind of knock them silly, say if they had a 269 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: helmet on. And then they had this really I'm gonna 270 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: send you a photo of this. Afterwards, they had this 271 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: really nasty spike on one end. And so you can 272 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: imagine you're running full tilt. Imagine these guys on horseback 273 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: and a battlefield going full tilt, and they've got a 274 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: hammer that's probably about three feet the handles might be 275 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: two and a half three feet in length. And it's 276 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: got this huge head on it, and they just swing 277 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: down with that spike and it would penetrate just about 278 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: any kind of armor. So not only are. 279 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 3: These guys late at night sitting around the campfire telling tales, 280 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 3: they're not sitting there singing if I had a hammer. 281 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 4: No no, this is not Peter, Paul and Mary. No no, no, no, no, 282 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 4: this is scary. But you're describing to me is a 283 00:16:55,440 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 4: hammer like no other. But it's a hammer that's a weapon. 284 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 4: And the hamrhage that we have now are not that dissimilar. 285 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 4: It's got no no on the end and a flat 286 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 4: end too. 287 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 3: No, they're not you know, anti wax what you want. 288 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 3: You know, this is what Joseph Scott Morgan watches at. 289 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 2: Home on YouTube. 290 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: You know, there's utilities, there's there's utility with weapons. What's 291 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: what's the verse in the Bible? It talks about you're 292 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: going to uh beat your beat your swords into uh 293 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: plowshares or whatever it is that you know, time of 294 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: peace and all that. 295 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 2: Well. 296 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: Conversely, you know, there are a lot of things that 297 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: are out there. I think that even in some Asian cultures, 298 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: the scythe itself, you know, which is that reaping tool 299 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,479 Speaker 1: that you use that was actually adopted and used as 300 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: a weapon of war. So yeah, there's a lot of 301 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: there's kind of a lot of cross cross communication between weapons, 302 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: weapons and stuff that we have used in the field, uh, 303 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: to build houses and grow crops and all that stuff. 304 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 2: Ye, that's what I say, was cloudshares. 305 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: That's what I was thinking about it. 306 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 2: Was it a weapon or was it a tool? First? 307 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 3: That's the thing is if it was a tool first, 308 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 3: then what kind of sicko turned it into a weapon? 309 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,880 Speaker 2: And hey, wall it was a weapon first? What sicko 310 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 2: turned it into a tool? 311 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: I got a great one for you while we're going 312 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 1: down this road. And I'll be quiet after this, but 313 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: you remember, and I can't remember this guy's first the name, 314 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: but I know you're going to remember the case. Do 315 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: you remember the case out of Iowa where the guy 316 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: took the corn rake? Yes, he killed his wife with it, 317 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: all right? 318 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 3: He did. 319 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 1: That is a nasty bit of business, you guys are not. 320 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: I did an episode on this case, Todd I think 321 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: was his first name, the perpetrator. I did an episode 322 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: of Bodybacks early early on about this case. And when 323 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 1: you see this corn i didn't really know what a 324 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 1: corn rake was, and when I saw this thing, it 325 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 1: was just absolutely hideous. And the pain that this woman 326 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: must have gone through because I think he took it 327 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: out and then stuck it in again. A horrible way 328 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 1: to die. But yeah, all of these tools, some tools 329 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: have multiple utility. And in this case, the police are 330 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: saying that there has been a hammer used. And I've 331 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: worked hammer cases. I've worked cases where people have been 332 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: beaten to death. But when I say people, I mean 333 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: people in the Let's see, how can I rephrase this 334 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: of my English teacher from high school won't get on 335 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: to me. People in the singular, like a person, not 336 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 1: three people, right, you know, And we're talking about three 337 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: people here, Dave. 338 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 2: And they're all over sixty. Now. 339 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 3: The reason that's important, okay, is because when you think 340 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 3: of three people dying in such a bloody manner and 341 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 3: having their bodies covered, you know, to disguise them in 342 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 3: some way, to hide them in a basement in a 343 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 3: neighborhood that has people who've been living there for decades. 344 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 3: The idea that there were sixty year old plus men 345 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 3: and they were all older, and what could have been 346 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 3: what happened before you know what transpired to make this 347 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 3: event take place in this home? And all I could 348 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 3: think of is, does anybody know where the devil was 349 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 3: the day this happened? Because we're talking about the devil himself? 350 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 2: Who would do? 351 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 3: What kind of person looks at Norman Hamlin sixty six 352 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 3: years old, Mark Barnett sixty five years old, and William 353 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,680 Speaker 3: Barrett seventy two years old. 354 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 2: Those were the. 355 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 3: Three men, the youngest of them sixty five, all of 356 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,199 Speaker 3: them dead, all of them slaughtered in that basement in 357 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 3: that house. 358 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 2: Did that happen one at a time? Were they you know? 359 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 3: Or were they all like you mentioned, the guys on 360 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 3: the couch on the love seat locking arms? 361 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: Yeah? 362 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean what happened? How are you going to 363 00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 3: find out who got first? 364 00:20:59,400 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 2: Oh? 365 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: My lord, it's going to be very difficult. And when 366 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 1: you said, you know, you'd mentioned one day that they were, 367 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 1: they were throwing out the idea that this is one 368 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: day down range from when the bodies are found. They 369 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: think they've been dead for that period of time. Okay, 370 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: with an attack like this, the first word that comes 371 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: to mind for me is luring. I'm wondering how these 372 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 1: men of a certain age and have are You know, 373 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 1: you got to you got to think, you know, when 374 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 1: you get to be this age or rather worldly, how 375 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 1: do you get these worldly guys that have been around 376 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: the block? And trust me, dude, they've been living in Detroit. 377 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: You're telling me that you're going to entice them to 378 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: come into the house. What would entice them to come 379 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: into that house? Did they know? Were they familiar with 380 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: the home? Were there things that went on that home 381 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: that they had in common? Uh? Did they live in 382 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: the neighborhood? Did they have connectivity with anybody that was 383 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: that was capable of this level of violence? And who 384 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: in the world, How in the world could these three 385 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: men elicit such violence from a person upon them? What 386 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 1: in the world did they do to deserve to be 387 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: beaten to death with a hammer? Not just one guy, 388 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: not just two, but three? And look you started off 389 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: the show, Dave talking about you got one guy walking 390 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 1: down the street. He's the one that approaches the cops 391 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: and says, hey, I was just being an attacked with 392 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: a guy with a hammer. You know that's not a 393 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 1: story you hear every day. 394 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 2: Man. 395 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 3: No, And the thing is is that's where But it's 396 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 3: so weird when I was looking at this because normally, 397 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,439 Speaker 3: you know, we have the crime scene, and we have 398 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 3: the victims, and we know who the suspect is. But 399 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 3: in this case, the cops are there for a totally 400 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 3: different reason. They're not there for this crime. They're they're 401 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 3: looking for a missing person, you know. And in this 402 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 3: particular case, we've got a man named Lance Clowney the second. 403 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 3: He's twenty seven years old, and mister Clowney the second 404 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 3: was arrested on the assault charge on the guy that 405 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,199 Speaker 3: came out to the cops. Hey, this guy was beating me. 406 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 2: Okay. 407 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 3: Now, when they arrested mister Clowney, they found him with 408 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 3: a hammer in his car. They found out a number 409 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 3: of things about mister Clowney. 410 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 2: Okay. 411 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 3: They found out that mister Clowney Joseph Scott Morgan. Mister 412 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 3: Clowney had been arrested by twenty seven years old. Now 413 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty six, right, so think about this for 414 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 3: just a minute. In twenty seventeen, that would be nine 415 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 3: years ago, when the young man was eighteen years old. 416 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 3: When mister Clowney was eighteen years old, he was convicted 417 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 3: of armed robbery and carjacking. Sent this to five to 418 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 3: fifteen years in prison. He got out on parole. While 419 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 3: out on parole, he was picked up possession of a 420 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 3: firearm unlawfully because who's not allowed to have a firearms? Yeah, 421 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 3: convicted Fellains and Pearles Cabin. He was also convicted of 422 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 3: evading police during his time on parole. And by the way, 423 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 3: mister Clowney the second was still on parole for the 424 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 3: carjacking arm robbery case in twenty seventeen when he was 425 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 3: arrested for the brutal assault of the man who wasn't dead. Now, 426 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 3: let me add this to everything. Joe Clowney. He pleaded 427 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:41,439 Speaker 3: guilty to that assault and the car jacking years ago. 428 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 3: But here we have him in twenty twenty six. He 429 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 3: was released in January of twenty twenty five. Didn't even 430 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 3: make it a full year. Really, well, I guess he did. 431 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,640 Speaker 3: He did make it a year before he allegedly beat 432 00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 3: somebody so bad. He has not yet been charged with 433 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 3: the murders of the three men. I want to point 434 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 3: that out. Yeah, now he has been arrested and he 435 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 3: is currently charged with the assault with intent to murder 436 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 3: and assault with a dangerous weapon the hammer on the 437 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 3: man who found the police and told him there's dead 438 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 3: bodies in there. The charges related to the homicide have 439 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 3: not been filed yet, but Judge has denied bond and 440 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 3: Clowney was deemed a threat to the community by the prosecutors, 441 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 3: and so he's not getting out on bond. 442 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 2: He's not getting. 443 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: Out, Thank the Lord. I mean, you know, you know, 444 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: you got two choices in life. You can either second 445 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: hammer and you beat your neighborhood or beat your neighbors 446 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: to death with her. You can get a job and 447 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: swing your hammer as a finishing hammer on a construction crew. 448 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: You know what's your choice here? And so you think 449 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: about this, and you think about the harm that has 450 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: been done in David. If I'm not mistaken. They also 451 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: found him in possession of a baseball bat as well. 452 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 3: And by the way, yeah, three phones in his car. 453 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 3: The hammer, the baseball bat, and three phones. Oh wait 454 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 3: a minute, how many dead bodies do we have in 455 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 3: the basement. 456 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: Joe, Oh, We've got three, Yeah, we do. I got 457 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: to tell you this hammer. I'm really hoping, you know 458 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: where I'm going to go with this, But I'm really 459 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: hoping that the hammer has been appropriately taken care of 460 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:37,959 Speaker 1: because you talk about an evidence rich item, not to 461 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: mention any kind I mean, any kind of clothing that 462 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: mister Clowney may have had on his person, because let 463 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: me tell you, oh, in the baseball bat too, because 464 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: I got to tell you I've worked to baseball bat 465 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: cases and they are a highly effective bludgeon, all right. 466 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: I mean you can really go to work on somebody 467 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 1: with one of these things and in their life as 468 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: a matter. I think I've told you this. The first 469 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: homicide I ever participated in the autopsy of was a 470 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: guy that had been beaten to death by his brother 471 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: with a baseball bat in the front yard. That was 472 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: a long, long time ago. So yeah, I mean I've 473 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,120 Speaker 1: had experience in this, and you've got all these multiple 474 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 1: surfaces relative to these items. So let's kind of break 475 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: down the hammer. You think about the hammer, and we've 476 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: got four people. Okay, We've got the living guy that 477 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: reports this, and then we've got the three guys down 478 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 1: in the basement. So right now, there are a number 479 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: of cases out there in the public where people are 480 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: talking about DNA mixtures. Okay, you talk about a prime 481 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: example here, because if this hammer has been used multiple times, 482 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,199 Speaker 1: and let me throw this at you if you think 483 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:59,439 Speaker 1: that's interesting. What if there's somebody else out there that 484 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,880 Speaker 1: is I'd accounted for at this point in time, somebody 485 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: else that may have been walking down the street. Maybe 486 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: there's another victim somewhere in some other location that's dead, 487 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,360 Speaker 1: and this guy never cleans the hammer up, or the perpetrator, 488 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: alleged perpetrator might not ever clean the hammer up. You're 489 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: going to have a DNA mixture on the surface. It'll 490 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: be on the head of the hammer, the claw if 491 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: it is a claw hammer, the actual blunt surface, You're 492 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: going to have it on the handle. It'll be everywhere. 493 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: The single will just be covered in DNA and it's 494 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: going to be a mixture, and it will take time. 495 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: It will take time in order to try to unspool 496 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: that because when you read when you read the examination 497 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: of sourcing of DNA out of something like this DNA 498 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: I was just talking about this earlier this week in 499 00:28:55,000 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: regards to the gu three case. DNA acts works on 500 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: a frequency kind of like a radio frequency, and it's 501 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: a one way frequency that kind of goes down as 502 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: you'll just imagine coaxial cable, and it's only going in 503 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: one direction. Okay, So you know how radio waves have peaks, 504 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: peaks and valleys, you know if you look at them 505 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: like on an ascilloscope or whatever. Well, DNA when it's 506 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: being processed actually has peaks and valleys, and different DNA 507 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,959 Speaker 1: from different subjects peaks at different locations. Okay, So what 508 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: you have to do is these things are overlapping and overlying, 509 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: so you have to kind of it's like an exploded view. 510 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,959 Speaker 1: You have to separate out those peaks, okay, and that 511 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: will delineate between whose DNA this is all right and 512 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: so and not one person. I forgot to mention whoever's 513 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: wielding the hammer, So you might have degraded DNA from 514 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: that person because if they're not cut and they don't 515 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: have a rich source of DNA, let's say it's touched 516 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: DNA like skin, dead skin cells, that DNA is going 517 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: to be on there as well. 518 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 3: What about spit and sweat and everything else from the suspect. 519 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, it very well could be. You could have not 520 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: just blood deposition. Oh let me tell you what else 521 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: you find on hammers too. And I have seen this 522 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: over and over, Dave, and it's because of blood has 523 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: attackiness to it's I'm not going to say it's exactly 524 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: like glue, but if you've ever been around blood, you'll 525 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: notice that blood will capture other items. With hammers in particular, 526 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: this is what I found on them. I found bone yards, 527 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: I found scalp, pieces of scalp, tissue, found muscle, oh 528 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: and hair. Entire clumps of hair where the scalp, for instance, 529 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 1: has been lacerated to the point where the hair completely 530 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: comes out on a piece of lacerated scalp where it's 531 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: attached to Now I find singular strands of hair as well. 532 00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: It gets, It gets so incredibly. It's overwhelming when you 533 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,719 Speaker 1: think about everything kind of has to be worked apart 534 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: in this case just on the hammer loan, I'm thinking 535 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: about the baseball bat as well, and then anything that's 536 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: contained because I think that he has a vehicle. This 537 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: individual has a vehicle and these items along you said 538 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: the three phones they're going to be in there. I 539 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: want to know if there's any trace blood on the 540 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: phone's Dave, because here's what I'm thinking, is this guy 541 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: allegedly attack these guys and he's not wearing he's not 542 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: wearing gloves. Then after he's attacked each person. Just follow 543 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: me here, give me a little rope. If he attacks 544 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: each person and he goes back and pulls the phone 545 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: out of their pocket, does that phone have blood deposition 546 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: from the non owner of the phone, Let's say one 547 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: of the other victims, because he's gone by with his 548 00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: filthy hands and he's pulled the phones out of their 549 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: post after he's killed him. And maybe he killed him 550 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: in a short period of time, you know, And that's 551 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: a great explainer there, you know, like maybe you could 552 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 1: get down to sequencing with that. You know, when you 553 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: think about it, you know, we know that this man 554 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: was dead by the time he got his phone. It 555 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 1: had this fella's phone, this fellaw's blood on it. You 556 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: see what I'm saying, And so you can kind of 557 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: sequence this thing out. There's going to be a myriad 558 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: of physical evidence in this case. And I'm not just 559 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: talking about the hammer. The hammer, injuries that have left 560 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: behind and anything else that happened. I can tell you though, 561 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: that whatever happened in that house or in that basement 562 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: will have left a mark on the floors and the walls, 563 00:32:43,640 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: and you know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about blood, Dave. 564 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 1: This is a for these cops that went into this 565 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 1: environment to the EMMY personnel. Even by AMMY personnel standards, 566 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: this is a horror show. This is a nightmare. I 567 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: can tell you just you know, just by virtue of 568 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: what they're seeing in there. 569 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 3: I asked you about this before we started because I 570 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 3: wanted to know. It really did strike me as odd 571 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 3: the way the police officers described the scene in such 572 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 3: bloody terms. We just don't normally hear that, And that's 573 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 3: why I asked you about it if that was common, 574 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 3: because I didn't think it was. But what are they 575 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 3: talking about? How bloody is this going to be? With 576 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 3: three three men? Now we're going to assume a couple 577 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 3: of things here, okay, because we do have three dead men. 578 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 3: They were disguised by wrapping in clothing, carpet, what have you, 579 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 3: anything that could be managed to real you know, put 580 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 3: on top of them and around them. But there's enough 581 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 3: blood that two officers have said this is horror scene. 582 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 3: We've got another man who was assaulted with a hand 583 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 3: who runs down the cops. And we have our suspect 584 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 3: who we know has assaulted in battery before. He has 585 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 3: used a hammer before, and we know that he is 586 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 3: in the suspect's car, is a hammer, a bat, and 587 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,879 Speaker 3: three phones. Now as I need to know how much 588 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 3: blood we're talking about, because I don't know. But on 589 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 3: top of that, how are you going to tell Joe 590 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 3: the way that the cast off comes from a baseball 591 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 3: bat versus a hammer. I'm just curious, morbidly curious, because 592 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 3: even if he cleans those up, there's still going to 593 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 3: be blood mixed on the bat and the hammer, right. 594 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, there would be. I think that that would be 595 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,360 Speaker 1: kind of difficult to discern. When you think about a 596 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: bat and swinging a bat, and you're an old baseball player, 597 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: you know that with a bat, when you swing a bat, 598 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 1: you can probably generate more energy than you can with 599 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: a hammer, all right, And this is why, because you've 600 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: got this long lever essentially that you're swinging, so it 601 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: builds up velocity, you know, when you like, if you 602 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: think of some guy while we're in Detroit, we'll talk 603 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: about Cecil Fielder when he was the king of swat there, 604 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: you know, and he's crushing the ball. When Cecil would 605 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: hit that ball, all right, and he would crush that ball, 606 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 1: the velocity of his back contacting that ball and sending it, 607 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: you know, four hundred and twenty feet out in the outfield. 608 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 1: Oh my lord, I can't even imagine is something to behold. 609 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: You're not going to achieve that same amount of velocity, 610 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,880 Speaker 1: would say a hammer, all right, because the lever is 611 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: not as not as long now, as far as the 612 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 1: cast off and everything, that would really be a bit 613 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: outside of my baileywick. Relative to how that deposition is 614 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: going to occur, I'm sure that it would probably be 615 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: a bit more broad ranging. And here's why a bat 616 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,800 Speaker 1: has more surface area than a hammer does. So ergo 617 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 1: if I took a paint brush, if I took a 618 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: tiny okay, let's just say that I took a medium 619 00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 1: sized paintbrush that I'm going to do trim work with, 620 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,439 Speaker 1: dipped it in the paint bucket, and slashed it. As 621 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,279 Speaker 1: opposed to taking the paint brush I'm going to you know, Tom, 622 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 1: saw your paint brush that I'm painting a fenced with 623 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: big wide whitewashing bra You know, I've got more volume 624 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: of blood on there. So but I think that that 625 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 1: that find detail would be very difficult to discern. The 626 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: key here, though, is to get those items and test 627 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,919 Speaker 1: them as quickly as you possibly can't well secure them, 628 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 1: make sure that they're you know that they're they're solid 629 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,839 Speaker 1: as far as security goes that there's no chance they're 630 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 1: going to degrade or anything like that. As far as 631 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,239 Speaker 1: the scene itself, though, this is going to be so 632 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 1: highly complex, Dave, Let's just say that the attacks started upstairs. 633 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 1: We know that they happened downstairs, so let's just for 634 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,839 Speaker 1: a moment, let's say that they're attacked upstairs well in 635 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: order to convey these bodies, and they will be bleeding 636 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: or oozing blood. Okay, I hate to say bleeding, as 637 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: you're assuming that somebody's been beaten to death with a hammer. 638 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 1: They're no longer pumping blood, but they're dripping blood. That 639 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 1: blood at the initial attack, you're going to see this 640 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: dynamic distribution all over the place. It will be on 641 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,359 Speaker 1: the ceilings, it will be on the walls, it will 642 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 1: be on any items that are in there. Just say, 643 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 1: if you're in an upper room and you've got a 644 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 1: you've got an ash tray, you've got a coffee table, 645 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,840 Speaker 1: you've got an old mug laying around, you can find 646 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:33,359 Speaker 1: cast off there. You know it'll be everywhere. And if 647 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 1: they're all attacked in the same spot. Again, you're going 648 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,360 Speaker 1: to have commingling of the blood there, and then with 649 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 1: the blood the dynamic blood deposition there, you might have 650 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 1: overlay of blood from one person to the next, where 651 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,799 Speaker 1: because the dynamic is completely different, you're doing this kind 652 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 1: of dance of death. A person doesn't want to get 653 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,400 Speaker 1: hit with the with the hammer, so they're kind of 654 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 1: twisting and turning. Nobody stands still to be hit with 655 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: a hammer. Even the first strike is generally not going 656 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: to take somebody down. It's like the guy that walked 657 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 1: up right. You'll have a sudden awareness and you'll flinch 658 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 1: and you'll readjust their body and this guy is on 659 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,319 Speaker 1: top of you like a wild man. So this is 660 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 1: going to be very dynamic. And then you've got to 661 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: get those bodies down to the basement. So how do 662 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,799 Speaker 1: you do that? Well, do you cradle them in your 663 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,879 Speaker 1: arms or do you drag them by their ankles where 664 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: they're going boom boom boom boom boom down the staircase 665 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 1: and every little bump and jostle along the way, you're 666 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,920 Speaker 1: depositing blood. But that's not going to be like real dynamic. 667 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 1: It'll just be kind of a transfer blood. Then you've 668 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:41,359 Speaker 1: got these wrappings day. Which is kind of fascinating because 669 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 1: when this case first came out, and I think I 670 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 1: told you this when the first reports came out, they 671 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 1: said the bodies were wrapped in carpet, and I was thinking, gee, whiz, 672 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 1: how much carpet does this person have if they're going 673 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:53,760 Speaker 1: to wrap three individual bodies. 674 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 3: I was thinking the same thing when you told me carpet, 675 00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 3: and I'm like, I'll have to So I started. I 676 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,319 Speaker 3: found the article that you were talking about with the 677 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 3: carpeting and what it was. It appears that the clothing 678 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,239 Speaker 3: and the rags and things that were thrown on the men, 679 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 3: on the three dead bodies and they were kind of 680 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:15,239 Speaker 3: rolled around in them that because there was so much blood, Joe, 681 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 3: that it was mistaken for carpeting, because it didn't look 682 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 3: like separately it didn't look like separate pieces of cloth 683 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:24,440 Speaker 3: or shirts or whatever. 684 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,360 Speaker 2: And so I'm thinking blood covered. 685 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, And here's another thing. This is really horrible, and 686 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 1: I hope this isn't the case. You know, I don't 687 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,400 Speaker 1: wish for death for anybody, but I wish for a 688 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,839 Speaker 1: painless death and a quick death. Dave he took. If 689 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 1: this perpetrator took those guys down there and they were 690 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,680 Speaker 1: still alive, they could have very well have been bleeding 691 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 1: out into those rags and the carpeting, as you know, 692 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 1: the last bits of life left them. We don't know. 693 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,920 Speaker 1: We do know that they believe that these individuals were 694 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: down for at least a day, so they've done some 695 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: kind of post mortem interval assessment on the Thank goodness, 696 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: Dave that they have somebody in custody. Now, this individual, 697 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,680 Speaker 1: according to what we're hearing, has not been charged with 698 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 1: three homicides. He's been charged with the assault on the 699 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 1: other gentleman, correct. 700 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,280 Speaker 3: And attempt to murder, assault and assault with intent to murder, 701 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 3: and assault with a dangerous weapon. 702 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, and thank the Lord, he's he's off the streets. 703 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,959 Speaker 1: And do we know what the status is. I would 704 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 1: assume that they're going to have some kind of appearance 705 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:33,960 Speaker 1: coming up in the next week or so. 706 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's going to be back in front of a 707 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 3: judge in May, and I'll follow up on it. 708 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:39,959 Speaker 2: Yeah. 709 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, we need to about this case because I got 710 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 1: to tell you, I just I'm so fascinated by the 711 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,360 Speaker 1: fact that you would have It's one thing. You know, 712 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: we go back to the earlier thing that I you know, 713 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:51,759 Speaker 1: that case that I told you about with the three 714 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 1: guys on the on the love seat. Gunschat wounds are 715 00:40:56,080 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: one thing, but to have three individuals that are deceased 716 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: and one that was grievously injured by hammer, I gotta 717 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,160 Speaker 1: know more. Friends. We're going to keep you up to 718 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:17,320 Speaker 1: speed on this case, and until then, I'm Joseph Scott 719 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,840 Speaker 1: Morgan and this is Body Backs