WEBVTT - Senator Rand Paul Talks Drug Boat Strikes

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>We spoke with Republican Senator Ran Paul of Kentucky, who

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<v Speaker 2>chairs the Senate Homeland Security Committee and also serves on

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<v Speaker 2>the Foreign Relations Committee, tried to pursue some of these

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<v Speaker 2>questions we discussed with. Wendy asked him about the legality

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<v Speaker 2>of the Pentagon's actions in Venezuela and whether he thinks

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<v Speaker 2>they amount to a prelude to war.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm very fearful that these boat strikes and the positioning

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<v Speaker 1>of our ships and our troops right off the coast

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<v Speaker 1>of Venezuela as a prelude to war. I think that

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<v Speaker 1>there is a real question of legality under the military

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<v Speaker 1>jo justice. Under the Code of Military Justice, it says

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<v Speaker 1>that when someone has been incapacitated or shipwrecked or they're

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<v Speaker 1>clinging to the wreckage of a boat, that they're out

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<v Speaker 1>of combat and they're no longer subject to be killed.

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<v Speaker 3>And so there is a real question who.

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<v Speaker 1>Gave the order and why would they give the order

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<v Speaker 1>to kill someone who is out of combat. Now the weekend,

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<v Speaker 1>the Secretary of Defense was saying, well, I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>anything about it. I don't know anything about a second attack.

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<v Speaker 1>But today when he was interviewed, he said, well, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>I left the room for a while, the second attack occurred,

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<v Speaker 1>and I learned about it when he came back.

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<v Speaker 3>But why was he telling us this weekend.

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<v Speaker 1>He didn't know anything about a second attack, and he

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<v Speaker 1>had never authorized it. But now that it's come to light,

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<v Speaker 1>he says, oh, I didn't do it. Somebody else did it.

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<v Speaker 1>The admiral did it. So they're all pin and blame

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<v Speaker 1>on the military guide. But I'm one who tends to

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<v Speaker 1>give a lot of leeway to the military guy and

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<v Speaker 1>not so much leeway to.

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<v Speaker 3>The person who gave him the orders. These orders came from.

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<v Speaker 1>The Secretary of Defense, and ultimately he's gonna have to

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<v Speaker 1>accept responsibility. But to my mind, there's a question about

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<v Speaker 1>whether or not killing people in the first place, who

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<v Speaker 1>you have no proof that they're armed, you have presented

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<v Speaker 1>no proof that they're carrying drugs, and that you simply

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<v Speaker 1>kill them. I think that's outrageous. But now not only

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<v Speaker 1>do we kill them, our government is following up by

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<v Speaker 1>killing them when they're wounded and stranded and of no

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<v Speaker 1>threat whatsoever, which is, according to our own laws illegal.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you've illustrated that carefully, Senator, it's Admiral Frank Bradley

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<v Speaker 2>we're talking about. He's been named by the administration. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know if you think it's appropriate that his name

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<v Speaker 2>is made public before he testifies before the Armed Services

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<v Speaker 2>Committee on Thursday. But I guess the question now is raised,

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<v Speaker 2>where does the buck stop? Is it with the admiral,

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<v Speaker 2>the Defense Secretary or the commander in chief.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's to me amazing that anybody in the

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<v Speaker 1>public accepts the idea that we would make an acca accusation.

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<v Speaker 1>We will simply accuse someone and then they are found

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<v Speaker 1>guilty without any kind of process. We asked the Coast

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<v Speaker 1>Guard for specific statistics off the coast of Venezuela, and

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<v Speaker 1>they said, of boats that have been interceded off of

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<v Speaker 1>the coast before we came up with this blow them

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<v Speaker 1>to smith a 'reens policy, we used to interdict them,

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<v Speaker 1>and of the boats that we interdicted off the coast

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<v Speaker 1>of Venezuela, about one in four twenty one percent, to

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<v Speaker 1>be exact, we're not caring drugs. That would mean if

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<v Speaker 1>you're going to blow up all of the boats off

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<v Speaker 1>the coast that look like drug boats, or that you're

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<v Speaker 1>suspicious For twenty one percent of the time, you'd be

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<v Speaker 1>killing innocent people. So I think it's outrageous that anybody

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<v Speaker 1>would countenance this kind of activity, And I'm surprised that

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<v Speaker 1>I seem to be one of the few people who

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<v Speaker 1>seem to be.

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<v Speaker 3>Alarmed at this. But I think it's unconscionable.

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<v Speaker 1>It's wrong on any level to kill people with no

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<v Speaker 1>proof that they are engaged in combat at all with

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<v Speaker 1>your country.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, so should Pete hagsth be fired?

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<v Speaker 1>There has to be an investigation, and I am glad

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<v Speaker 1>that for a change, there is a bipartisan push from

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<v Speaker 1>the Armed Services Committee to get to the bottom of this.

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<v Speaker 1>So to be an investigation, I think he needs to

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<v Speaker 1>be asked under oath, did you give the order to

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<v Speaker 1>kill any survivors? And if you didn't give the order,

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<v Speaker 1>what was the order? Why did the admiral think that

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<v Speaker 1>he was supposed to kill people clinging to wreckage? The

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<v Speaker 1>idea that these people were still a threat. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>debate whether they were ever a threat. They're on a

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<v Speaker 1>motor boat two thousand miles from our coast. If you

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<v Speaker 1>want to take that motor boat to the closest point

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<v Speaker 1>of entry, in Miami. You probably have to fill it

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<v Speaker 1>up twenty times. These motorboats can't go two thousand miles

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<v Speaker 1>on a tank of gas. If there was drugs on board.

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<v Speaker 1>They may be going to other countries, but probably not

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<v Speaker 1>to the US.

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<v Speaker 3>So the whole thing is.

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<v Speaker 1>Just remarkable that in our country we would allow this

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<v Speaker 1>to happen.

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<v Speaker 4>Senator Senator Schumer has asked for footage of these strikes

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<v Speaker 4>to be released.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that something that you would support. Yes, we need

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<v Speaker 1>to see the footage, We need to hear the audio.

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<v Speaker 1>The Secretary of Defenses now said that he left the room.

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<v Speaker 1>That's fine, But the whole idea is the Admiral's not

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<v Speaker 1>just making these decisions.

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<v Speaker 3>Without an order.

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<v Speaker 1>The order came from the Secretary of Defense. And then

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<v Speaker 1>I hear some of my colleagues in the hallway just saying, oh, no.

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<v Speaker 3>Big too.

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<v Speaker 1>We do this all the t Whenever we bomb people,

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<v Speaker 1>we just do a second tap on them.

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<v Speaker 3>Man, if they're moving, we go back and hit them again.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, if it's soldiers with guns shooting our soldiers, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>fine with that, but this is a pretense of a war.

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<v Speaker 1>They've just said, oh, we call these people in these

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<v Speaker 1>boats Narco terrace, So we can kill them without any

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<v Speaker 1>kind of proof, without any kind of just fashi gup

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<v Speaker 1>because we say so, because we say it's a war.

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<v Speaker 1>This is insane, This isn't a war. These people don't

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<v Speaker 1>We don't even know if they're armed or we've killed

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<v Speaker 1>eighty people, Are any of them armed? What are their names?

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<v Speaker 1>What is it they're transporting? All these people going off saying, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>Fentel's killing people. I know people have died of Fennel.

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<v Speaker 1>I have a great deal sympathy. I know a family

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<v Speaker 1>lost two sons defendant. I have sympathy for that. There's

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<v Speaker 1>no evidence there's any fentyl on this boat. There's no

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<v Speaker 1>evidence that any fentanyl comes from Venezuela.

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<v Speaker 3>Zero.

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<v Speaker 1>There is fentyl come out of Mexico. But since we're

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<v Speaker 1>blowing these boats up, maybe we're taking our eye off

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<v Speaker 1>the border in Mexican go. So the whole thing is

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<v Speaker 1>a pretense and a prelude to war in Venezuela, and

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<v Speaker 1>I hope it doesn't happen.

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<v Speaker 4>Senator, you've said previously that you've received not one briefing

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<v Speaker 4>on Venezuela. In your eyes, does the administration have a

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<v Speaker 4>coherent strategy? On this issue, and how does it square

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<v Speaker 4>with the President and the administration's America first posture, this

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<v Speaker 4>idea that they were going to keep America out of

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<v Speaker 4>ever increasing foreign entinglements.

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<v Speaker 1>The one thing I've always liked about Donald Trump, and

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<v Speaker 1>the reason I've supported him and still do support him,

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<v Speaker 1>is that I think his instincts towards less intervention and

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<v Speaker 1>less foreign war have been sincere He's been against the

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<v Speaker 1>Iraq War for several decades before it happened, and after

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<v Speaker 1>it happened, he was against the war in Libya that

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<v Speaker 1>Obama took us into. So those were legitimate ideas that

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<v Speaker 1>are jegitimate part of America first. But this idea of

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<v Speaker 1>invading Venezuela, I think comes from the Secretary of State

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<v Speaker 1>who's long wanted regime change there.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, if you could wave.

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<v Speaker 1>A wand and have regime change where there's adversaries we

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<v Speaker 1>don't like, we would do it for China, we would

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<v Speaker 1>do it for Columbia, we would do it for all

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<v Speaker 1>the countries that have ten socialist dictators.

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<v Speaker 3>But we don't do that because the.

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<v Speaker 1>End result of regime change often is more chaos or

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<v Speaker 1>chaos worse even than the authoritarianism they live under.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm getting confused here, Senator, because there was also

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<v Speaker 2>a pardon that the administration announced this week former Honduras

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<v Speaker 2>President Juan Orlando Hernandez, who was convicted for pushing hundreds

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<v Speaker 2>of tons of cocaine into this country. If we're concerned

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<v Speaker 2>about the drug trade in America, why would the administration

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<v Speaker 2>pursue this pardon.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, didn't they tell you he's not an arco terrorist?

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm being facetious.

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<v Speaker 2>I heard the President say today that it was a

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<v Speaker 2>Biden hoax, that it was Biden overreached.

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<v Speaker 3>So you don't support this part. So here's the thing.

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<v Speaker 3>Here's the thing.

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<v Speaker 1>If they say he's not a narco terrorist, he's not

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<v Speaker 1>a threat to America, and maybe he was falsely accused.

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<v Speaker 1>And I say that facetiously because it gets to the

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<v Speaker 1>point of if they label you a narco terrorist, they

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<v Speaker 1>can kill you without trial. But if they say you're

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<v Speaker 1>not a narco terrorist, you can be given a pardon,

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<v Speaker 1>even though you have been convicted. Even though he's gloated

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<v Speaker 1>over all the people he's loaded with drugs, including some

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<v Speaker 1>who have probably and inevitably have died in our country,

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<v Speaker 1>but he's okay because the administration does not label him

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<v Speaker 1>and sell him a narco terrorist.

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<v Speaker 3>It gets to the whole problem of this.

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<v Speaker 1>So I have brought forward with Senator Cain on a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of occasions, and we'll do again the idea that

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<v Speaker 1>we have to debate whether this is war. There is

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<v Speaker 1>a lower standard for rules of engagement in war. But

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<v Speaker 1>they say it's not war. But then they say, what

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<v Speaker 1>kind of is war? Because we've labeled a narco terrorists

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<v Speaker 1>and they are designated to be foreign terrorists, so you

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<v Speaker 1>can kill them without any proof because their enemy combatants.

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<v Speaker 1>But if you try to have a vote in Congress

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<v Speaker 1>as to whether it's war, said, we can't have that

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<v Speaker 1>because this is our prerogative. But then you get into

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<v Speaker 1>the lunacy of well, Orlando Hernandez is not a narco terrorist,

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<v Speaker 1>but these guys who we don't know their name and

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<v Speaker 1>we presented no proof they're narco terrorists. It's absolutely and

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<v Speaker 1>utterly insane, Senator.

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<v Speaker 4>Republicans have often been hesitant to push back on the

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<v Speaker 4>administration's policy moves. How optimistic are you that Republicans will

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<v Speaker 4>be able to come together, find some unity on this

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<v Speaker 4>issue and provide oversight on this issue of the boat

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<v Speaker 4>strikes and the posture towards Venezuela.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm encouraged that the Arms Services Committee is going to

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<v Speaker 1>do an investigation.

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<v Speaker 3>That is a bipartisan thing.

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<v Speaker 1>The Republican Chairman Wicker is going forward with an investigation.

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<v Speaker 1>I hope they will demand the actual footage and the

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<v Speaker 1>audio of what happened during that strike. These are strikes

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<v Speaker 1>that are going out without the approval of Congress, at

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<v Speaker 1>the very least after the fact. They ought to show

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<v Speaker 1>us the actual video, the actual footage, and the actual audio.

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<v Speaker 3>And we should hear.

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<v Speaker 1>Under oath from the admiral that gave the order, and

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<v Speaker 1>hear under oath from the Secretary of Defense.

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<v Speaker 2>I got to ask you about healthcare, Senator. Just a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of hours ago. You probably saw this, the President

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<v Speaker 2>posting on truth Social what appears to be a screen

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<v Speaker 2>grab of a text that you sent him.

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<v Speaker 3>Is that real?

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<v Speaker 2>Just for starters, is that a text that you sent

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<v Speaker 2>the president?

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<v Speaker 1>I did, and I've engaged with the President because I've

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<v Speaker 1>worked with him before and still want to work with

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<v Speaker 1>the president. In the first administration, I engaged with him

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<v Speaker 1>on something called association health plans. These are group plans

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<v Speaker 1>that individuals can buy so For example, the biggest problem

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<v Speaker 1>we have in healthcare is that if you're a small

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<v Speaker 1>business person, say you're an accountant and you have three

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<v Speaker 1>employees you want to buy insurance, you go into the

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<v Speaker 1>individual market and you have no leverage, and if one

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<v Speaker 1>of your employees gets cancer or you get cancer, they

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<v Speaker 1>jack up the risk for your really small risk pool. Instead,

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<v Speaker 1>what I'm proposing is you should be allowed to go

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<v Speaker 1>anywhere where you want to buy insurance across state lines,

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<v Speaker 1>including places like Costco, Sam's Club, Amazon, and then if

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<v Speaker 1>you became one of millions of people buying insurance, Amazon

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<v Speaker 1>or Costco would negotiate directly with the insurance company and say, look,

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<v Speaker 1>I got ten million people want insurance, and I'm negotiating

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<v Speaker 1>for them, and all of a sudden they become the

0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.720
<v Speaker 1>large they become the largest entity in America, and they'll

0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:27.400
<v Speaker 1>drive the prices down. The problem with Obamacare, although well

0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:30.319
<v Speaker 1>intended to help people, is when you give people money

0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:32.679
<v Speaker 1>to buy insurance. As insurance rates are going up, you

0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:34.800
<v Speaker 1>say I'll give you more one thousand dollars, then I'll

0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:36.920
<v Speaker 1>give you five, then I give you ten. You just

0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:40.480
<v Speaker 1>keep chasing the rates higher because you're artificially increasing the

0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:43.559
<v Speaker 1>demand and the price just goes hired and has it

0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:46.959
<v Speaker 1>worked so Originally President Obama said prices will go down

0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:49.480
<v Speaker 1>twenty five hundred dollars within I don't know a year

0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.640
<v Speaker 1>or two of Obamacare, and the exact opposite has happened.

0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:55.880
<v Speaker 1>So if we continue to do this, it won't get better.

0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:59.280
<v Speaker 1>We're chasing in our tail, we're chasing inflation, and so

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<v Speaker 1>well we need is leverage and to allow the marketplace

0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:05.800
<v Speaker 1>work to work to bid down prices. My plan would

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<v Speaker 1>also let everybody have an HSA, and it would let

0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.960
<v Speaker 1>you purchase your health insurance out of an HSA. So

0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:15.160
<v Speaker 1>as you save money and you're able to purchase your

0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:18.479
<v Speaker 1>insurance out of it, there would be a possibility, particularly

0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:20.199
<v Speaker 1>over time, that you might be able to a crew

0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:22.720
<v Speaker 1>enough money that you would be able to get larger

0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:25.280
<v Speaker 1>and larger deductible because you have a big savings account

0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:26.400
<v Speaker 1>to cover your deductible.

0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.480
<v Speaker 2>Just to understand for our viewers and listeners here, Senator,

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<v Speaker 2>do you need the President now that you're pitching him

0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:35.640
<v Speaker 2>on this, to say which plan yours or bil cassidys

0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:39.040
<v Speaker 2>should be pursued here and will this get a floor vote?

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<v Speaker 2>When that happens.

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<v Speaker 3>It's the debate.

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<v Speaker 1>We're having this debate right now within our caucus. Others

0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.320
<v Speaker 1>in my caucus want to take the Obamacare money and

0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:51.240
<v Speaker 1>stick it in your HSA. That to means another form

0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:53.680
<v Speaker 1>of Obamacare, and I'm not really for that. I'm for

0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:56.240
<v Speaker 1>letting you save your own money in your HSA and

0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:58.680
<v Speaker 1>letting ninety percent of people who don't have an HSA

0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.640
<v Speaker 1>get one, and then let you negotiate through a buying

0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:04.640
<v Speaker 1>quote co op like Amazon to get lower prices.

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<v Speaker 2>Republican Senator Ran Paul of Kentucky with a sun balance

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<v Speaker 2>of power