1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Wal Zone Media. 2 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 2: On February twenty seventh, nineteen eighty six, the Federal Bureau 3 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 2: of Investigation was asked to close their file on a 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 2: serial killer. William Bradford Reynolds, the Assistant Attorney General for 5 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 2: the Civil Rights Division at the Department of Justice, said 6 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 2: there was no remaining public interest in continuing to investigate 7 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 2: the case. Joseph Paul Franklin had already been convicted in 8 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 2: a pair of double homicides, and with a stack of 9 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 2: consecutive life sentences to serve, there was just no chance 10 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 2: he would ever be paroled. In fact, he wrote, further 11 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 2: attempts to prosecute Franklin would only endanger society given his 12 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 2: history of escape attempts. Reynolds didn't just want the FBI 13 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 2: to drop the matter, he wanted it closed entirely. In 14 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 2: his men I'm mirandum to the director of the FBI, 15 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 2: Reynolds wrote that he'd personally spoken with local prosecutors and 16 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 2: at least three of the jurisdictions where Franklin was still 17 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 2: wanted for murder, and he'd convinced them to abandon any 18 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 2: attempt to prosecute those cases. Best to just close it, 19 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 2: and so they did. Jurisdictions all over the country packed 20 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 2: up those case files and put them on a shelf 21 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 2: until eight years later, when a convicted killer says he 22 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 2: had a prophetic dream instructing him to keep confessing to murder. 23 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 2: I'm Molly Conger, and this is where the little guys. 24 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 2: I was a little bit lost again this week, trying 25 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 2: to make sense of this story that I can't stop writing. 26 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 2: And I know I'm telling it out of order, but 27 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 2: I think it's less of a biography of one man 28 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 2: and more of a dissection of the world he lived in, 29 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 2: the world he killed in. And I've got my timeline 30 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 2: of what our killer was doing, but that's useless to 31 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 2: me unless I've got a timeline of the world he 32 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 2: was doing those things, in which means I'm off again 33 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 2: down a twelve degree tangent, searching for context that I 34 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 2: won't know until I see it. 35 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: Context. Like William Bradford. 36 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 2: Reynolds, I thought I was done researching. I have plenty 37 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 2: of research. I had an outline for an entirely different 38 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 2: episodes catched out, and then I looked at that memo 39 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 2: closing the case again, and I looked at the name 40 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 2: at the top of it, didn't mean much to me, 41 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 2: some DOJ official, but I popped his name in the 42 00:02:58,480 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 2: search bar on a. 43 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: Lark, and wouldn't you know? 44 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 2: It actually does seem like remarkably relevant context that Ronald 45 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 2: Reagan had picked him to head up the DOJ's Civil 46 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 2: Rights Division in May of nineteen eighty one. So Reynolds 47 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 2: took the job after Franklin's federal civil rights conviction in 48 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 2: Utah and before a botched federal prosecution that resulted in 49 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 2: an extremely rare and very embarrassing acquittal at trial in 50 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 2: Indiana in nineteen eighty two. When Reynolds wrote that memo 51 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 2: closing Franklin's file in nineteen eighty six, he was under 52 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: pressure to resign after a disastrous Senate hearing a few 53 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 2: months earlier. Despite strom Thurman's best efforts, the Senate had 54 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 2: refused to confirm Reynolds as Reagan's pick for Associate Attorney General. 55 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 2: In front of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Reynolds was accused 56 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 2: of being evasive and deceptive, particularly when it came to 57 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 2: answering questions about voting rights. Senator Arlen Spector said Reynolds 58 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 2: took legal positions that were quote directly at variance with 59 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 2: established law on issues like desegregation and employment discrimination. So 60 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 2: Reynolds wasn't confirmed by the Senate to that number three 61 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 2: position at the DOJ, but he did keep his job 62 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 2: heading up the Civil Rights Division, and around the time 63 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 2: he was encouraging local prosecutors to quietly close their files 64 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 2: on Franklin, Reynolds was issuing public statements denying the existence 65 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 2: of an epidemic of racial violence in America, and he 66 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 2: was downplaying public concern over a spate of recent high 67 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 2: profile incidents. In nineteen eighty seven, in response to Ed 68 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 2: Kennedy's accusation that the Reagan administration was quote creating a 69 00:04:55,760 --> 00:05:01,359 Speaker 2: climate that encouraged discrimination, Reynolds dismissed reports about things like 70 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 2: the murder of a Guyanese immigrant in Queen's by a 71 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 2: white mob and a massive violent confrontation between civil rights 72 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 2: activists and clansmen in Georgia, calling those isolated incidents that 73 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 2: absolutely do not indicate what they were calling a rising 74 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 2: tide of racism. And in fact, Renald said, quote all 75 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 2: the available evidence collected on such matters indicates quite the opposite. 76 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 2: So he's standing in front of the press, he's standing 77 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 2: in front of civil rights groups, and he's saying there 78 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 2: is no rising tide of racism. I don't know why 79 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 2: he keeps saying that. So it just wouldn't be a 80 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 2: great public relations move to have another high profile trial 81 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 2: where a gallery full of reporters was writing down that 82 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 2: a former klansman had killed more than twenty people all 83 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 2: over the country. It just wouldn't do to have another 84 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 2: round of headlines about a Nazisi real killer who hunted 85 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 2: black men. That's not the message the Reagan administration wanted. 86 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: To be sending. 87 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 2: You see, crime is political, not necessarily the acts themselves, 88 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 2: although they can be, but the idea of crime, what 89 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 2: we consider crime, what we choose to criminalize, whose acts 90 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 2: we choose to scrutinize, who gets prosecuted, how they get charged, 91 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 2: how they're presented in the media, how they're punished, the 92 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 2: stories we tell. 93 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 1: All of that is political. Always. 94 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 2: The decision to prosecute a crime, any crime, is always 95 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 2: a political choice. It's not always an important or meaningful, 96 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 2: difficult or noteworthy choice, but it is quite literally always 97 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 2: a choice. Prosecutter have what's called prosecutorial discretion in deciding 98 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 2: whether to charge someone with a crime, and what specifically 99 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 2: to charge them with, and the prosecutor has incredibly wide latitude. Here, 100 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 2: we like to imagine the law is clean cut and 101 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 2: black and white, and it'll be the same every time. 102 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 2: But the same crime, the exact same set of facts, 103 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 2: The same criminal act could be a misdemeanor punishable by fine, 104 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 2: or a felony that sends you to state prison, depending 105 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 2: on how one person chooses to charge it. 106 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: It's a choice. 107 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 2: Someone sitting at a desk in a county office building 108 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 2: can decide whether you end up in a diversion program 109 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 2: or subject to a draconian mandatory minimum sentence. If you 110 00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 2: pay attention to your local elections, you're probably familiar with 111 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 2: this idea. Candidates competing for your vote in the district 112 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,119 Speaker 2: attorney race might have different opinions on a particular type 113 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 2: of crime. Maybe one of them is campaigning on a 114 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 2: promise not to prosecute marijuana possession, even in states where 115 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 2: the drug is still illegal. Your county prosecutor can promise 116 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 2: that he'll prioritize other kinds of cases and simply decline 117 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 2: to file charges in cases where it's just simple possession. 118 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:32,719 Speaker 2: Or maybe it goes the other way and You've got 119 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 2: a guy running on a platform of seeking maximum penalties 120 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 2: in all drug cases, and he's promising he's going to 121 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 2: go after every drug user in the county. Those are 122 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 2: political choices where I live here in Charlottesville, Virginia. The 123 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 2: Albumarle County prosecutor chose not to file charges against any 124 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 2: of the white supremacists who march with torches at the 125 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 2: University of Virginia in twenty seventeen. That decision was so 126 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 2: controversial that his opponent campaigned on charging those cases, and 127 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 2: he won and he did it. So as I was 128 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 2: putting together my timeline of the years after nineteen eighty, 129 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,839 Speaker 2: after Joseph Paul Franklin's three year killing spree came to 130 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 2: an end, this was on my mind because when I'm 131 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 2: just looking at the timeline, it's confusing. He's convicted of 132 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 2: that nineteen eighty double homicide in Utah nineteen eighty one, 133 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: he's convicted of the nineteen seventy seven double murder and 134 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 2: Wisconsin in nineteen eighty six, and then he goes a 135 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 2: decade before he's convicted of another murder, even though those 136 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 2: cases were all but solved all along from the day 137 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 2: he was arrested. He is credibly publicly linked to the 138 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: majority of the murders he was eventually confirmed to have committed. 139 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 2: What he did was never a mystery. But when I 140 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 2: was trying to make a table showing each crime the 141 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 2: date it was committed, the datea was charged, the date 142 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 2: the case was resolved, it made even less sense because 143 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 2: sometimes cases were charged and then nobody ever mentioned them again. 144 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 2: The charges were quietly dropped, or even weirder left open, 145 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 2: charges pending indictment, growing stale, but never trying to extradite 146 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 2: him to face the charge. And sometimes things would be 147 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 2: quiet for a while, and then he would burst back 148 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 2: into a news cycle confessing to some new crime. I 149 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 2: made my timeline, but then I had to make sense 150 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 2: of it. I had to build up the context around it. 151 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 2: Why was he choosing to confess, and why did some 152 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 2: of those confessions go unanswered. I know I've said this before, 153 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 2: but trying to make sense of Joseph Paul Franklin is 154 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 2: an impossible task. Putting together his statements over the years. 155 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 2: It seems like he just says whatever comes to mind, 156 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 2: whatever feels good at the moment, with absolutely no consistency 157 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 2: from conversation to conversation. In nineteen ninety six, he told 158 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 2: a reporter that he'd had a spiritual awakening back in 159 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty five that made him not racist anymore, and 160 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 2: he'd gotten into meditation, and now he was into New 161 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 2: Age religion. In other interviews, he's clearly espousing beliefs consistent 162 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 2: with Christian identity, that neo Nazi bastardization of the Bible. 163 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 2: After he claimed he didn't hate Jews anymore, he told 164 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 2: an investigator that his only regret was that killing Jews 165 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 2: was illegal. In nineteen ninety seven, he said the only 166 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 2: crime he regretted was shooting Larry Flint. In two thousand, 167 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 2: he told a Court TV documentary crew that he regretted 168 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 2: killing mixed race couples, but when he was interviewed by 169 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,559 Speaker 2: a Nazi magazine a few months later, he said that's 170 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 2: not true. He had no regrets at all. Sometimes he 171 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 2: was adamant that he had always been on a mission 172 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 2: from God. In the nineties, he briefly flirted with a 173 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 2: Satanic panic, claiming that he became possessed by the devil 174 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 2: during the murders, and when he was appealing his death sentence, 175 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 2: he changed his mind. About how mentally ill he'd been, 176 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:27,079 Speaker 2: despite having spent years fighting with his own attorneys when 177 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 2: they tried to introduce evidence of mental illness. In one case, 178 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 2: he sat there quietly and let his lawyers put on 179 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 2: a decent defense in a trial for bombing a synagogue, 180 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 2: only to stand up at the very end of the 181 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 2: trial and give the jury a bizarre speech about how 182 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 2: he'd set off that bomb because the Jews were trying 183 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 2: to destroy the white race. He's all over the place, 184 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 2: But once Franklin was in prison after his first conviction, 185 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 2: everything else was a choice. What he chose to confess 186 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 2: to and when, whether anyone drove out to the federal 187 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 2: prison to ask him any follow up questions, how he 188 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 2: chose to frame his narrative, and how the world around 189 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:18,839 Speaker 2: him reacted, And on all sides of this equation, these 190 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 2: choices had a messy mix of motivations. And that's kind 191 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 2: of what I want to explore here. For detectives, prosecutors, 192 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 2: the press, the broader white supremacist movement, for the murderer himself, 193 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 2: there are sometimes at least discernible personal and political incentives 194 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 2: for what they chose to do. It looks random, but 195 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 2: what if I told you, I don't think it is 196 00:13:55,360 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 2: he wasn't making good choices. But after another haddening week 197 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 2: spent trying to reconstruct the world he was living in, 198 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 2: I think I have a better idea why he kept 199 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 2: changing his mind about what he wanted his own story 200 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 2: to be. Franklin's last murder was the first one to 201 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 2: put him in prison, the August twentieth, nineteen eighty attack 202 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 2: at a park in Salt Lake City that left two 203 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 2: young black men dead. He'd shot them because they were 204 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 2: jogging with white female friends. The federal government took the 205 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 2: first crack at him, convicting him under a federal civil 206 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 2: rights statute in March of nineteen eighty one. The state 207 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 2: of Utah took him to trial next, convicting him on 208 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 2: two homicides later that same year. Now you might be 209 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 2: asking yourself, Molly, isn't that double jeopardy? How could he 210 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 2: be convicted twice for those same two murders? Fair question? 211 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 2: Franklin ask that too, And there's no reason anyone who 212 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 2: didn't go to law school would need to know this. 213 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 2: But there is something called the dual sovereignty doctrine. The 214 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 2: law sees the federal government and the governments of the 215 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 2: individual states as separate legal entities, entities with their own 216 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 2: laws and their own court systems, and those entities may 217 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 2: have separate legal interests in enforcing those laws, and they 218 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 2: can make independent decisions about prosecuting offenses under those laws, 219 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 2: even if it means they both try the same defendant 220 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 2: for the same criminal act. Double jeopardy prevents you from 221 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 2: being tried twice for the same offense. And the word 222 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 2: offense is really important here, because under the dual sovereignty doctrine, 223 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 2: a singular criminal act is an offense against both the 224 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 2: state and the federal governments. 225 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. 226 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 2: Here's what William Howard Taft had to say about it 227 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 2: in a nineteen twenty two Supreme Court opinion. 228 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: Quote. 229 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 2: Here, the same act was an offense against the state 230 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 2: of Washington because a violation of its law, and also 231 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 2: an offense against the United States under the National Prohibition Act. 232 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 2: The defendants thus committed two different offenses by the same act, 233 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 2: and a conviction by a court of Washington of the 234 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 2: offense against that state is not a conviction of the 235 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 2: different defense against the United States, and so is not 236 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 2: double jeopardy. Don't worry, there's no quiz. And honestly, I 237 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 2: only learned this was possible back in twenty eighteen, when 238 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 2: federal charges were filed against James alex Fields, the Unite 239 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 2: the Right car attacker. I was surprised to learn that 240 00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 2: he could be prosecuted twice for murdering Heather Higher. And 241 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 2: in both of these cases, my example about James Alex 242 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 2: Fields and this case against Josephaul Franklin in Utah nineteen 243 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 2: eighty one, the federal government is choosing to send a 244 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 2: strong message. Neither of these federal prosecutors had to do that. 245 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 2: In both of these cases, the local prosecutor had everything 246 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 2: he needed to put a racist murderer away forever, and 247 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 2: in both cases they did. But federal prosecutors brought their 248 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 2: own cases not just to ensure the defendant went to 249 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 2: prison and stayed there forever, but to communicate the federal 250 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 2: government's commitment in these high profile cases to prosecuting civil 251 00:17:54,600 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 2: rights violations, because that's what's being charged than this federal case. 252 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 2: Murder isn't a federal crime, plain old regular murder that 253 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 2: state business. The federal government only gets involved if the 254 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 2: murder is a very particular kind of murder. Sometimes it's 255 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 2: about who the victim is, a federal judge, a congressman, 256 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 2: a US marshal, an FBI agent's wife, or where it happened. 257 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 2: Murders on federal property are obviously the federal government's business. 258 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 2: You might joke about maritime law, but it is a 259 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 2: real kind of law. And if you murder someone on 260 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 2: a ship, that's a federal crime. Murder for hire, murder 261 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 2: by mail, murder at an airport, murder during a bank robbery, 262 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 2: or a kidnapping. All of these are federal crimes for 263 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 2: various and specific legal reasons. The federal government can't just 264 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 2: intervene in any old murder because they want to. They 265 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 2: have to have a constitutionally grounded rationale. It has to 266 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 2: affect interstate commerce or something. 267 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: You know. 268 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 2: The newspaper articles about the charges brought in Utah are 269 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 2: so vague. They just say it's civil rights related, but 270 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 2: if you want to be specific about it. Franklin was 271 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 2: indicted for violating Chapter eighteen of the United States Code, 272 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 2: Section two forty five B two, and that particular statute 273 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 2: became federal law as part of the Civil Rights Act 274 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 2: of nineteen sixty eight, which was signed just a week 275 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 2: after the assassination of Martin. 276 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: Luther King Junior. 277 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 2: The federal charge isn't murder, its bias motivated interference with 278 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 2: federally protected activity. So Joseph Paul Franklin murdered Ted Fields 279 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 2: and David Martin in Salt Lake City, but the federal 280 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 2: government has to charge him with a federal crime. And 281 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 2: those young men had been engaged in a federally protected 282 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 2: activity when Franklin violated their civil rights by interfering with 283 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 2: their ability to engage in that protected activity, and he 284 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 2: did so because of a federally protected characteristic And that 285 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 2: all sounds like nonsense, But the victims were jogging in 286 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 2: a city owned park, so that legally counts as quote, 287 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 2: participating in, or enjoying any benefit, service, privileged program, facility, 288 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 2: or activity provided or administered by the state or subdivision thereof, 289 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 2: And shooting and killing them certainly meets the threshold for 290 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 2: willfully injuring, intimidating, or interfering with, or attempting to injure, intimidate, 291 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 2: or interfere with their ability to keep using that public park. 292 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 2: And he did all of that specifically because they were black. 293 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 2: It's a long walk. But when you really boil it down, 294 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 2: it's actually not complicated. Black people have a constitutional right 295 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,679 Speaker 2: to exist in public and shooting them for using a 296 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 2: public park is murder. But it's also a very specific 297 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 2: federal civil rights violation, and the federal government has an 298 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 2: interest in protecting those constitutional rights. That same code section 299 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 2: appears in the federal indictment against James Alex Fields for 300 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 2: Heather Hire's murder, and I think it's a pretty similar 301 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 2: prosecutorial motivation in both of these cases. I mean, they 302 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 2: were huge cases, national news, international news headlines all over 303 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 2: the country about a vicious racist murderer. It's very important 304 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 2: in these high profile cases to send a message that 305 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 2: the Department of Justice is invested in enforcing civil rights laws. 306 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 2: When Joseph Paul Franklin was indicted in November of nineteen eighty, 307 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 2: Jimmy Carter was technically still the president, even if only 308 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 2: for a little bit longer, and so it was his 309 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 2: Department of Justice that wanted this prosecuted as a civil 310 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 2: rights case. And maybe on some level, Jimmy Carter himself 311 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 2: wanted to see this prosecuted. Remember, way back before the 312 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy sixth election, when Jimmy Carter was still just 313 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 2: a candidate for president, the Secret Service went to Maryland 314 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 2: looking for Franklin because he'd sent Carter a threatening letter. 315 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,199 Speaker 2: One of the U S attorneys who worked on this 316 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 2: case called it quote one of the most significant civil 317 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 2: rights victories in the recent past, and he told reporters 318 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 2: that he hoped this verdict would show other racists that 319 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 2: they could not expect to get away with victimizing the 320 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 2: poor and defenseless. They were sending a message, and I 321 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 2: guess it doesn't hurt that this kind of thing can 322 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 2: make a career. Christopher Kavanaugh, the federal prosecutor who handled 323 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 2: that case against James Alex Fields, was named the US 324 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 2: Attorney for Virginia's Western District not long after that case resolved. 325 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 2: Richard Roberts, that DOJ civil rights specialist who helped prosecute 326 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 2: Franklin in Utah, would go on to lead the DOJ 327 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 2: Civil Rights Division in the nineties. When President Bill Clinton 328 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 2: nominated him to the federal judiciary, he named this case 329 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 2: as one of the most important of his career. It 330 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:28,479 Speaker 2: would be irresponsible not to mention here just briefly that 331 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 2: Richard Roberts retired from the bench in twenty sixteen after 332 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 2: he was accused in a federal lawsuit of having an 333 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 2: inappropriate sexual relationship with a teenage girl. The teenage girl 334 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,640 Speaker 2: in question had been a witness in the Joseph Paul 335 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 2: Franklin case he handled in Utah back in the eighties. 336 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 2: Terry Mitchell had been injured in the attack that killed 337 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 2: her friends. In her lawsuit filed in twenty sixteen, she 338 00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 2: claimed that Richard Roberts had taken her out to dinner 339 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 2: to disc thus the case, and then sexually assaulted her. 340 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 2: Her lawsuit was dismissed, but an investigation by the Utah 341 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 2: Attorney General's office did conclude that Richard Roberts had sex 342 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 2: with Terry Mitchell multiple times under the guise of witness preparation, 343 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 2: though they found there was insufficient evidence to support a 344 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 2: criminal prosecution, and because she was sixteen at the time, 345 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 2: she was old enough under Utah state law to consent 346 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 2: to sexual activity with an adult. I don't want to 347 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 2: get into it, really, some of the allegations in her 348 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 2: lawsuit are really upsetting, but like I said, it would 349 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 2: be unethical not to mention that these celebrated civil rights 350 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 2: attorney who put Franklin away the first time was sexually 351 00:24:51,359 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 2: abusing one of Franklin's surviving victims. By the end of 352 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty one, Joseph Paul Franklin had been convicted for 353 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 2: those murders in Utah by both state and federal courts, 354 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 2: so he'd racked up four life sentences to be served consecutively. 355 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 2: The jury in the state trial was asked to consider 356 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,719 Speaker 2: the death penalty, but several female jurors just couldn't do it. 357 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 2: So far, everything makes sense at this point. Franklin still 358 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 2: maintains his innocence, and he's trying to fight the case, 359 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 2: and he's filing appeals. Jimmy Carter's DOJ wants a high 360 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:48,120 Speaker 2: profile civil rights case, and prosecutors all over the country 361 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:53,479 Speaker 2: are waiting their turn. By the time Franklin's convicted in Utah, 362 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 2: Oklahoma City and Indianapolis have already indicted him, and they're 363 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 2: talking about preparing for extradition. They're just trying to figure 364 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 2: out who's going to go first. Cincinnati said they were 365 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 2: thinking about filing charges, and cops in Pennsylvania really want 366 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 2: to talk to him. After his sentence was imposed in Utah, 367 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 2: he was moved into federal custody to begin serving his 368 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 2: federal sentences. First, in October of nineteen eighty one, he 369 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 2: was moved to the Medical Center for Federal Prisoners in Springfield, Missouri. 370 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 2: There's no indication that he was ill, not physically anyway, 371 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:33,640 Speaker 2: but that is where they would park him if they 372 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 2: wanted to do some more thorough psychiatric examinations. And after 373 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 2: a few months at the medical center, he was moved 374 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 2: to his final destination, the place that would be his 375 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 2: home for the next fifteen years, Marian, the United States 376 00:26:50,960 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 2: Penitentiary in Marion, Illinois. Marian is a nightmare. It opened 377 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty three, the same year Alcatraz closed, and 378 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 2: it filled the need left by the loss of Alcatraz. 379 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 2: It was the end of the line, home of the 380 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 2: worst of the worst. If you got in trouble somewhere else, 381 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 2: they'd send you to Marian. Marian was the first supermax 382 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 2: style federal facility in the United States, inventing the control 383 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 2: unit in the early nineteen seventies. On a control unit, 384 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 2: every prisoner is kept in lockdown isolation twenty three hours 385 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 2: a day, and although Marian no longer operates as a supermax. Today, 386 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 2: it's home to one of the country's two Communication Management units. 387 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,360 Speaker 2: People held on a Communication management unit are typically people 388 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 2: who've been charged with crimes like terrorism or organized crime, 389 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 2: or have a history of repeated attempts at witness intimidation, 390 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 2: and their access to the outside world is severely restricted. 391 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 2: All of their tele phone calls are actively monitored, and 392 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,679 Speaker 2: all of their mail is photocopied and read by staff or, 393 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 2: in some cases, a dedicated FBI agent. Prison is by 394 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 2: its nature very cruel. There's no nice place to go 395 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 2: to prison. But in the nineteen seventies, Marian was the 396 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 2: prison system's laboratory for human experimentation. They weren't actually allowed 397 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 2: to engage in medical experiments on prisoners against their will anymore, 398 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 2: but cutting edge techniques in behavior modification were being explored 399 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 2: at Marian. Anyway, they were torturing people. And I say 400 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 2: this because as we discuss Franklin's desperation to get out 401 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 2: of Marian, I want to make sure you understand he 402 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 2: wasn't just being picky. This really was a situation where 403 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 2: anywhere else would have been better. And for all the 404 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 2: things he does make up, he was not lying about 405 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 2: how bad things are at Marion. Just four days after 406 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 2: arriving at marian, Franklin was stabbed in February of nineteen 407 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 2: eighty two. He was stabbed fifteen times in the throat 408 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 2: and abdomen, where the makeshift weapon described as ice pick like, 409 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 2: and that part we know is true. He was taken 410 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 2: to the hospital with fifteen stab wounds, and the home 411 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 2: made weapon was found on the ground nearby. Everything else 412 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 2: is a little hazy. Initial statements from the prison said 413 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 2: they had no idea who'd done it or why. They 414 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 2: didn't even know how many assailants there might have been, 415 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 2: or what their races were, or what. 416 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: The motivation might have been. 417 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 2: After a few days, the FBI said they had a suspect, 418 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 2: but they wouldn't say anymore. A month later, the FBI 419 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 2: announced they'd completed their investigation and there would be no 420 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 2: criminal charges because there were no suspects and no witnesses 421 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 2: and Franklin didn't want to cooperate. 422 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: In the immediate. 423 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 2: Aftermath of the stabbing, his sister told reporters that he'd 424 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 2: told her that he was jumped by six or seven 425 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 2: black inmates, seemingly without provocation. In Melton's twenty eleven biography 426 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 2: of Franklin. It says he entered another inmate's cell one 427 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 2: evening when all the doors were open after dinner, and 428 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 2: inside that cell he was cornered by a group of 429 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 2: black inmates. The version recounted in Ayton's book doesn't have 430 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 2: any citations, which is a little bit odd, and it 431 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 2: provides no explanation, not even for Franklin's version of events, 432 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 2: as to why he entered someone else's cell. And the 433 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 2: lack of citations is really noble because Aiden's book is 434 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 2: well researched and well cited. There are a lot of footnotes, 435 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 2: and so it was strange to see several paragraphs without 436 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 2: any citation. Usually claims like this would be cited with 437 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 2: something like letter to the author indicating the source was 438 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 2: his correspondence with Franklin, But here there's no citation offered 439 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 2: for things like the claim that Franklin was unarmed because 440 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 2: he had turned down the Aryan Brotherhood's offer of a weapon. 441 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 2: The only other place I find that particular claim pre 442 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 2: dates Aiden's book by a decade, so it may be 443 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 2: the source. 444 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: And it's a two thousand. 445 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 2: And one issue of Resistance Magazine, the quarterly magazine published 446 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 2: by white power music label Resistance Records. By two thousand 447 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 2: and one, that label and its magazine were owned by 448 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 2: William Luther Pierce, head of the Nazi group National Alliance, 449 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 2: and the anecdote about the Aran Brotherhood had apparently been 450 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 2: relayed to the author of the article by a man 451 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 2: named Richard Scutari, a member of the Nazi terror cell 452 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 2: of the Order who served a bit of his own 453 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 2: time at Marian later in the eighties. It doesn't seem 454 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 2: far fetched, though, that Franklin would have been turned off 455 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 2: by the Aryan Brotherhood. 456 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: I mean, they were. 457 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 2: Racist, absolutely, but their commitment to Nazi philosophy is sometimes 458 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 2: just skin deep, and if he didn't think they were 459 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 2: true believers in Nazi ideology, that would have put him off. 460 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 2: The newspaper reports about the stabbing. 461 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: Are all so vague. 462 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 2: Franklin wouldn't talk, No one would. So by most accounts, 463 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 2: most of which come from Franklin, he's just randomly jumped 464 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 2: by a large group of black men and there's no 465 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 2: provocation offered. There's no context here. The only alternative version 466 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 2: of this event that I could find was in the 467 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 2: first issue of a newsletter published in nineteen eighty two 468 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 2: by the Committee to Defend New African freedom Fighters, a 469 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 2: coalition dedicated to supporting members of the Black Liberation Army, 470 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 2: which was a militant to Marxist Leninist black nationalist group. 471 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 2: So despite these statements from the FBI that no one 472 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 2: had any idea what happened, the New African Freedom Fighters 473 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 2: re laid an account from another man on Franklin's cell 474 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 2: block at Marion. Willard Walker, a young black man, was 475 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 2: sitting in his own cell when Franklin entered and lunched 476 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 2: at him with a weapon, which Walker was able to 477 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 2: wrestle away from him in a physical struggle. This newsletter 478 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 2: omits the part where Franklin is actually stabbed, perhaps to 479 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 2: avoid implicating others, because it does seem like additional parties 480 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 2: may have intervened at this point, and Walker may not 481 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 2: have been the only one doing the stabbing, if he 482 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 2: did it at all. And Walker told this group that 483 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 2: he was still under investigation by the FBI, but he 484 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 2: had already been found guilty of assault through the prison 485 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:20,240 Speaker 2: disciplinary process and served sixty days in isolation. Now, obviously 486 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 2: I can't verify any of this. The prison was very 487 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 2: tight lipped about it, and I've tried getting prison disciplinary 488 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,439 Speaker 2: records in much more recent cases and never had any luck, 489 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 2: So I don't know if that's true, but at the 490 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 2: very least Willard Walker was real. The contact information provided 491 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,800 Speaker 2: in that newsletter includes an inmate number, and the Bureau 492 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 2: of Prison records do show that that number belonged to 493 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 2: a man by that name who would have been the 494 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 2: right age and was in federal prison at the time. 495 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,240 Speaker 2: The Willard Walker that I found had a prior escape 496 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 2: attempt from a prison in Virginia, so that makes him 497 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 2: a likely candidate to have been moved to Marion. 498 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:06,760 Speaker 1: I mean, we'll never. 499 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 2: Know who lunged at who first with a homemade shive. 500 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 2: It makes decent enough sense either way, Right, Franklin was 501 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 2: there for life. Why not establish yourself in your first 502 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 2: week by stabbing a random black man. That's perfectly in 503 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 2: character for Joseph Paul Franklin, But I can also imagine 504 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 2: a black man not being particularly happy to see Joseph 505 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:36,280 Speaker 2: Paul Franklin, a Nazi who murdered little black boys for fun. 506 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 2: However this went down, Franklin never forgot it. This stabbing 507 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 2: was a major factor in his later decision to demand 508 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 2: the death penalty. He was terrified of being murdered in prison, 509 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:55,759 Speaker 2: and he couldn't bear the thought of going out like that. 510 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 2: But once he's at Marion, people aren't really talking about 511 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 2: him anymore. Those prosecutors in Oklahoma City and Indianapolis, the 512 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 2: ones who'd already secured indictments against Franklin, they weren't making 513 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 2: any moves towards extradition. Those prosecutors in Indianapolis hinted that 514 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 2: they weren't exactly eager to try to prosecute him for 515 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:25,319 Speaker 2: the murders of Leo Thomas Watkins and Lawrence Reese, young 516 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 2: black men killed a few days apart in January of 517 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty it looked like they were starting to get 518 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 2: cold feet. By nineteen eighty two, Ronald Reagan was the president. 519 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 2: He'd replaced the head of the Civil Rights Division with 520 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 2: his own man, William Bradford Reynolds. Reynolds approach to civil 521 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 2: rights has been described using words like means, spirited and racist. 522 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 2: A nineteen eighty two report by the Leadership Conference on 523 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 2: Civil Rights found that in his first year as the 524 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,160 Speaker 2: head of the Civil Rights Division, Reynolds. 525 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: Had in fact been waging a. 526 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 2: War on the very idea of civil rights, and the 527 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,400 Speaker 2: report accused the Department of Justice of abdicating its responsibility 528 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:14,240 Speaker 2: to enforce the law. Under reynolds leadership, the Civil Rights 529 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 2: Division had quote established itself as the locusts of anti 530 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 2: civil rights activity in the federal government, reaching into other 531 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 2: agencies to try to curb policies deemed overly protective of 532 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:33,360 Speaker 2: civil rights. And this report, made public in early nineteen 533 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 2: eighty two, seems like it really hit a nerve. I mean, 534 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 2: Reynolds reacted quite badly to it, and they needed a win. 535 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,839 Speaker 2: They had midterm elections coming up, and in the early 536 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 2: eighties Republicans were still at least making gestures towards trying 537 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 2: to win black voters. They needed something, something simple and 538 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,279 Speaker 2: clear cut and low risk, something they could point to 539 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 2: and say, look, the Reagan administration cares if racists kill 540 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 2: black people. And in the spring of nineteen eighty two, 541 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:15,399 Speaker 2: they had just the guy. Joseph Paul Franklin had been 542 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 2: making some friends in prison, and he told several other 543 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:39,439 Speaker 2: inmates about that time he shot Vernon Jordan. Now, most 544 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 2: of the open cases against Franklin were just regular murders 545 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,320 Speaker 2: and they were being handled at the local level. But 546 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,840 Speaker 2: the May nineteen eighty shooting of National Urban League president 547 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 2: and civil rights attorney Vernon Jordan had been an FBI 548 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:58,280 Speaker 2: case from the very beginning, and unlike Franklin's other victims, 549 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 2: Vernon Jordan lived. They could charge Franklin for violating Jordan's 550 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,759 Speaker 2: civil rights by shooting him while he was in a 551 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 2: place of public accommodation. That's a federally protected activity. I mean, 552 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,399 Speaker 2: it worked in Salt Lake City, Utah. It could work 553 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,960 Speaker 2: in Fort Wayne, Indiana. It could have worked. I think 554 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:24,879 Speaker 2: it could have worked. I'm not a lawyer, but I've 555 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,799 Speaker 2: sat through quite a few trials, and I think what 556 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:32,479 Speaker 2: happened here was a failure of communication. I truly think 557 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:38,240 Speaker 2: that better jury instructions would have saved this case. Agreeing 558 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 2: on the jury instructions is the most boring part of 559 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 2: the trial, but I think they should have invested more 560 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,800 Speaker 2: time in it here. The jury instructions are that little 561 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,440 Speaker 2: packet of directions that the jurors get when they go 562 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 2: out to deliberate. It's not evidence, it's not argument. It's 563 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 2: just neutral information about the law. So the jury instruction 564 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 2: might define legal terms or contain the text of the 565 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:08,320 Speaker 2: applicable laws, or reminders of important legal facts like the 566 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 2: right of the defendant to refuse to testify, or explain 567 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,840 Speaker 2: concepts like burden of proof, and in cases where the 568 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:22,360 Speaker 2: law is complicated, they're so so important you have to 569 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 2: help the jury understand how to apply the law to 570 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 2: the evidence. In this case, jurors who spoke to the 571 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 2: press later said there had been no question in the 572 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 2: deliberation room about whether Joseph Paul Franklin shot Burn and Jordan. 573 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,360 Speaker 2: They believed he had, but they were hung up on 574 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 2: the actual charge, the language of this particular criminal charge 575 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,280 Speaker 2: that the shooting had been a violation of Jordan's civil rights. 576 00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 2: One juror, speaking anonymously said they believed the conviction would 577 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,360 Speaker 2: have been a certainty if not for some particular language 578 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,719 Speaker 2: the prosecutor used in framing this law. They felt like 579 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 2: they couldn't convict because the government failed to prove that 580 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:15,480 Speaker 2: Jordan was shot because he was using a public facility, 581 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 2: that his usage of this hotel parking lot was the 582 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 2: motive for the murder. This case was charged under the 583 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:30,400 Speaker 2: same statute as the Utah murders. In that case, Franklin 584 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,239 Speaker 2: violated the victim's civil rights because they had a right 585 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,799 Speaker 2: to use a public park and Franklin shot them in 586 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,839 Speaker 2: that park because they were black, they were prevented from 587 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,479 Speaker 2: exercising that right because it was interfered with by someone 588 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,840 Speaker 2: with a bias motivation. And so in this case, the 589 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,239 Speaker 2: argument was that Franklin had shot Vernon Jordan because he 590 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,480 Speaker 2: is black, and he was shot in a place of 591 00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:00,319 Speaker 2: public accommodation, in this case, a hotel parking lot. It's 592 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,719 Speaker 2: not rocket science, but it is a weird way to 593 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,319 Speaker 2: talk about what happened, and if you don't have lawyer brain, 594 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,759 Speaker 2: you might overthink the whole thing and get confused about 595 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:12,799 Speaker 2: why the prosecutor is arguing that Vernon Jordan's use of 596 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,960 Speaker 2: the hotel parking lot was the motive for the murder. 597 00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:17,879 Speaker 1: I think they could have gotten there. 598 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 2: I think a better closing argument and clearer jury instructions 599 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:27,200 Speaker 2: could have saved this one. But the statute was only 600 00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,240 Speaker 2: a little over a decade old and it hadn't gotten 601 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:34,160 Speaker 2: a ton of use. I think everyone was just confused 602 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,719 Speaker 2: about how they were supposed to try this case, and 603 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 2: this prosecutor probably thought that everything would fall into place 604 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,759 Speaker 2: once the jury believed that Franklin fired the gun and 605 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 2: he did it because he was racist. Because that part worked, 606 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,840 Speaker 2: the jury believed that they just got confused about the 607 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 2: rest of it. This acquittal was kind of a shock. 608 00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 2: I mean, in a federal criminal trial is always a shock. 609 00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 1: It's rare. 610 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:12,880 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty, two point four percent of defendants facing 611 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:18,160 Speaker 2: federal criminal charges were acquitted at trial. That's zero point 612 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:25,600 Speaker 2: four percent, four tenths of one percent, because most cases 613 00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:29,560 Speaker 2: don't even go to trial. Ninety percent of federal criminal 614 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:34,200 Speaker 2: cases and in guilty please, federal prosecutors don't even charge 615 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,600 Speaker 2: a case if they don't completely believe that it's a 616 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:43,799 Speaker 2: slam dunk. So this was a pretty devastating loss. And 617 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,200 Speaker 2: even though it was clear to anyone who was paying 618 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,279 Speaker 2: attention that the problem was never the evidence, it was 619 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:53,480 Speaker 2: poor communication with the jury about a complicated statute, this 620 00:43:53,600 --> 00:44:00,640 Speaker 2: loss made everybody nervous. After this acquittal, the local prosecutor 621 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,720 Speaker 2: in Fort Wayne said he wasn't going to pursue filing 622 00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:04,560 Speaker 2: his own charges. 623 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,239 Speaker 1: He could have. He could have filed. 624 00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:13,560 Speaker 2: Charges against Franklin for shooting Brenan Jordan, just regular, straightforward 625 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:14,920 Speaker 2: shooting him with a gun. 626 00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,160 Speaker 1: That's illegal. And remember it wouldn't be. 627 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,480 Speaker 2: Double jeopardy for the local prosecutor to do that. It's 628 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:26,040 Speaker 2: dual sovereignty. He could have filed those state charges for 629 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,719 Speaker 2: the shooting, but he said he didn't have the evidence, 630 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:31,480 Speaker 2: and we. 631 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:32,400 Speaker 1: Know that's not true. 632 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,640 Speaker 2: Those jurors said they believed, based on the evidence, that 633 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:39,680 Speaker 2: Franklin was the shooter, but now no one wanted to 634 00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:44,680 Speaker 2: take that risk, so Josephaul Franklin went back to Marion. 635 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,160 Speaker 2: He still had four life sentences to serve, even if 636 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:52,560 Speaker 2: he had scored a rare victory against the dj and 637 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:56,160 Speaker 2: during those few months away from Marion, he was telling 638 00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,600 Speaker 2: people he didn't want to go back. While he was 639 00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,000 Speaker 2: being held a jail in Chicago ahead of that trial 640 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,719 Speaker 2: in Indiana, he called a local newspaper and told a 641 00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:11,560 Speaker 2: reporter that the government had been behind the stabbing at Marian, saying, quote, 642 00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,360 Speaker 2: I think the communists and the Jews who run the 643 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 2: government are trying to get rid of me. Upon his 644 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,759 Speaker 2: return to Marian, he started using his phone privileges to 645 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:24,880 Speaker 2: call newspapers in Oklahoma City, asking reporters down there if 646 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,520 Speaker 2: they had any idea when the prosecutor planned. 647 00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:28,640 Speaker 1: To extradite him. 648 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,359 Speaker 2: He had, after all, been indicted there for a double 649 00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:35,560 Speaker 2: murder he committed in nineteen seventy nine. Three months after 650 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:39,360 Speaker 2: being acquitted in Indiana, he called newspapers in Cincinnati to 651 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,920 Speaker 2: complain that he was being poisoned at Marian and begged 652 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:47,680 Speaker 2: them to help him get extradited to Oklahoma. I'm not 653 00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,640 Speaker 2: sure why he called those reporters in Cincinnati to talk 654 00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,319 Speaker 2: about Oklahoma City, because he didn't ask the reporters in 655 00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:58,200 Speaker 2: Cincinnati about the status of the possible charges against him there. 656 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:03,840 Speaker 2: He didn't like to talk about those murders. Those victims 657 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:10,480 Speaker 2: had been children. But for months, at the end of 658 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:15,480 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two, Franklin was demanding to be taken to Oklahoma. 659 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,319 Speaker 2: He said he was going to write to Congress about it. 660 00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:24,480 Speaker 2: But after the failure at Fort Wayne, nobody wanted to touch it, 661 00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,440 Speaker 2: and Oklahoma City dropped their murder case in January of 662 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:30,800 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three. 663 00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:31,440 Speaker 1: Citing a lack of evidence. 664 00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,440 Speaker 2: There's no new story about Indianapolis dropping their cases. They 665 00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:42,640 Speaker 2: just never brought it up again. Cincinnati stopped asking to 666 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:48,080 Speaker 2: talk to him, Pennsylvania wasn't interested anymore. A handful of 667 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:53,359 Speaker 2: bank robbery indictments just faded away, and Franklin was stuck 668 00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,879 Speaker 2: at Marion, obsessed with the idea that he was going 669 00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:01,960 Speaker 2: to be murdered. All His appeal in Utah was dismissed. 670 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,320 Speaker 2: He still maintained his innocence there, but the courts disagreed. 671 00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,320 Speaker 2: In October of nineteen eighty three, the Supreme Court of 672 00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:14,520 Speaker 2: the United States declined to hear his appeal. Later that month, 673 00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,840 Speaker 2: two prison guards at Marian were murdered by inmates in 674 00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:25,080 Speaker 2: separate incidents, and the police exploded with violence. Eight inmates 675 00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:28,960 Speaker 2: were murdered. There was a rash of escape attempts, guards 676 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:34,960 Speaker 2: beat men mercilessly and at random, and then the entire 677 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:42,520 Speaker 2: prison went into permanent lockdown. For several years, everyone at 678 00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:47,120 Speaker 2: Marian was confined to a tiny concrete cell for twenty 679 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:52,600 Speaker 2: three hours a day. Marian had been unbearable before, but 680 00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:54,759 Speaker 2: by the end of nineteen eighty three it was hell. 681 00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:02,360 Speaker 2: Within days of that lockdown, Franklin wrote a letter. He 682 00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,080 Speaker 2: sent it to the only person he could think of, 683 00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,680 Speaker 2: the public defender who'd represented him in the Vernon Jordan case, 684 00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,080 Speaker 2: because he needed a lawyer's help to make a deal. 685 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:18,080 Speaker 2: He wanted to speak to detectives in Wisconsin if they 686 00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,520 Speaker 2: could arrange for a transfer to a state prison in Wisconsin, 687 00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:27,400 Speaker 2: he would confess to an unsolved double homicide. In the 688 00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:31,040 Speaker 2: first few months of nineteen eighty four, he started confessing. 689 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,520 Speaker 2: He confessed to two murders in Madison in nineteen seventy seven, 690 00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,400 Speaker 2: a third Wisconsin murder he did in nineteen eighty, a 691 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,120 Speaker 2: pair of murders in West Virginia, and a synagogue bombing 692 00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:46,560 Speaker 2: in Tennessee. He was willing to do anything to get 693 00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:50,759 Speaker 2: out of Marion, but he really had his eye on Wisconsin. 694 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,120 Speaker 2: He was quite sure there wouldn't be as many black 695 00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:59,120 Speaker 2: people there. But something else was happening. In nineteen eighty four, 696 00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:05,120 Speaker 2: a small group of neo Nazi terrorists calling themselves the Order, 697 00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:10,279 Speaker 2: were trying to kick off a race war. The group 698 00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,920 Speaker 2: had taken their name from the plot of The Turner Diaries, 699 00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:18,680 Speaker 2: the novel by William Luther Peers. By the time Franklin 700 00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:22,200 Speaker 2: found himself back in a courtroom that year, he wanted 701 00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,719 Speaker 2: more than a transfer out of Marian. He wanted his 702 00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:29,800 Speaker 2: old mentor to be proud of him. And as members 703 00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:32,600 Speaker 2: of the Orders shop bombed and robbed their way through 704 00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:36,600 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four, William Luther Piers sat down to write 705 00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:41,279 Speaker 2: the first chapter of his second novel, the one he 706 00:49:41,400 --> 00:50:00,960 Speaker 2: dedicated to Joseph Paul Franklin. Weird Little Guys is a 707 00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,120 Speaker 2: production of pool Zone Media and iHeartRadio. It's research, written, 708 00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,440 Speaker 2: and recorded by Me, Molly Conger. Our executive producers are 709 00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,359 Speaker 2: Sophie Lettreman and Robert Evans. The show is edited by 710 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,680 Speaker 2: the wildly talented Rory Gagan. The theme music was composed 711 00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:16,239 Speaker 2: by Brad Dickard. You can email me at Weirdle Guys 712 00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:18,520 Speaker 2: Podcast at gmail dot com. I will definitely read it, 713 00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,440 Speaker 2: but I probably won't answer. It's nothing personal. You can 714 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,200 Speaker 2: exchange conspiracy theories about the show with other listeners on 715 00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:27,160 Speaker 2: the Weird of the Guys subreddit. Just don't post anything 716 00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,480 Speaker 2: that's gonna make you one of my weird Little Guys.