1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Happy Saturday. Coming up next week on the show, 2 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: we are going to talk about a famous concert pianist 3 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: and making an appearance in that episode. Brief but important 4 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,319 Speaker 1: is Fran's List. So it seems like a great time 5 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: to revisit one of our favorite past episodes about some 6 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: nineteenth century fandom, and that is Listomania. Just a quick note, 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: if this episode sounds a little different to you from 8 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: how our episodes have been sounding, it's just from an 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: earlier era that was recorded and produced at a slightly 10 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: different quality level. Enjoy. Welcome to Stuff you missed in 11 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: History Class from how Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and 12 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. I'm Crazy v Wilson and I'm 13 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: Holly Frying. I have a confession to make of a 14 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: long holding jealousy. It's been with me quite a while. 15 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: I have always been jealous of Sarah and Bablina having 16 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: already covered the Right of Spring Riots on our podcast. 17 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: The whole story is just so weird they already covered 18 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 1: it back in twentyn so I've had my eye out 19 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: for some other kind of weird musical story to cover 20 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: as like a sad consolation prize. This is not a 21 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: Sad Consolation Prize. This is actually awesome. It is about 22 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: a musical mass hysteria that is from the mid nineteenth century, 23 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: and that is list omania. Yeah. Uh, it's delightful. I mean, 24 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,559 Speaker 1: there's no way around it. I feel kind of sorry 25 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:39,479 Speaker 1: for the guy, but at the same time it's pretty great. 26 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: So before we start, as as often happens, I need 27 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 1: a little note. So today, the word mania definitely has 28 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: psychological connotations, right, It's used to describe this s excessively 29 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: elevated mood or really hyperactive mental state, and that can 30 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: also extend into like physical hyperactivity and other behaviors. And 31 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: usually it's used this way in the context of like 32 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: bipolar disorder other mental and emotional disorders. And there are 33 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: definitely folks who would really prefer that the word mania 34 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: not be used to describe more generally just being really 35 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: excited or busy. But at the time when the word 36 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: list domania was coined, the word mania was really a 37 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 1: physical description, it was not a psychological one. And so 38 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:25,239 Speaker 1: list romania was considered to be a frantic and dangerous 39 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 1: physiological response to being around Franz List. And so when 40 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: we use the word mania in today's show. That is 41 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: the context that we are talking about. All I can 42 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: think of was all those shots of the women in 43 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: the crowd as the Beatles landed in America. It's very similar. Well, 44 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: And to be honest, I saw the Boston Symphony, the 45 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: Boston Pops specifically do uh a whole night of the Beatles, 46 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: and um, it was amazing. I was. I was really 47 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,559 Speaker 1: there to see John Hodgman do what's it called the 48 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: the Introduction to Orchestra for young people? Oh? Yeah that. Yeah, 49 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: it was hilarious and there was a there was a 50 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: narration through the whole thing that talked about, among other things, Beatlemania. 51 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: And I had this movement where I was like, what 52 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: if we did a podcast on beatle Maia? And I 53 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 1: couldn't figure out a way to make that feel legitimate. 54 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: So this feels a lot more legitimate and also very fun. 55 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: So to give you a little bit of background and 56 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: set this up, Fran's List was born in Devoreon, Hungary, 57 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: which is now Raiding Austria, although it is still referred 58 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: to as Devoreon if you speak Hungarian, on October eighteen eleven, 59 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: and de Boreon at the time was rather small. It 60 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: was basically a market town, and most of the people 61 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: who lived there were both German speaking and ethnically Hungarian 62 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: or MegaR. List was the only child of Adam List 63 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: and Anna Maria Lager. Adam List worked as a clerk 64 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: for Prince Nicholas esther Hassi, who was a music old 65 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: patron and a Liszts father was also an amateur musician 66 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: who could play several different instruments, including the cello and 67 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: the piano. Franz lists father had also spent two years 68 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: in the Franciscan Order, so Franz grew into a religiously 69 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: pretty devoted child. Liz already showed a really distinct love 70 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: of music by the age of six, and his father 71 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 1: started to give him music lessons. Franz was just enormously talented, 72 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 1: and he really progressed in his musical study extremely quickly. 73 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: By the time he was nine, he was giving public 74 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: performances as a concert pianist, and after his first performance, 75 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 1: local big wigs actually donated money to fund the next 76 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 1: several years of his musical education. Soon, his prodigious ability 77 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: outstripped the resources that were available in de Boreon, so 78 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: Liszts father asked for an extended leave of absence from 79 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 1: his employer and took Franz to Vienna. There he studied 80 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: piano with Carl Cherney, who himself had studied with Ludwig 81 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 1: von Beethoven. Liszt also studied composition with Antonio Salieri, who 82 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: was much more famous for his relationship with and rivalry 83 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: with Mozart. Both of these two teachers were so impressed 84 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: with Lizz's talent that they refused to be paid for 85 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 1: their work with him. Franz's first public performance in Vienna 86 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: was in eighteen twenty two, so he would have been 87 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 1: about eleven years old at this time, and he was 88 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: described as quote a little Hercules fallen from the clouds. 89 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: He started writing his own compositions that same year. The 90 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,559 Speaker 1: next year, Franz met Ludwig von Beethoven for the first time, 91 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: and according to one possibly apocryphal account, Beethoven was so 92 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: charmed that he kissed him on the forehead. Three was 93 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: also the year that Lizt moved to Paris. This move 94 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: was another one that was made so that he could 95 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: continue his studies with other musical masters, and while the 96 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: Paris Conservatory declined to admit him on the grounds that 97 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: he was not friend. Check composer Anton Russia and Italian 98 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 1: composer Fernando Pier taught him privately. In addition to his studies, 99 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: he put on extensive public performances, and he really started 100 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: to develop quite a following. However, in eighteen twenty six, 101 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 1: when he was fifteen years old, Franz's father died suddenly 102 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,359 Speaker 1: of typhoid. His father had really been his primary source 103 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 1: of support during all of this musical training and performing, 104 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: Plus the boy was only fifteen years old. He had 105 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: not always had good health up until this point, and 106 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: this whole theories of touring and studying had been really fatiguing. 107 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: After his father's death, Franz had to share a one 108 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: bedroom apartment with his mother, and, grieving and exhausted, he 109 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: turned to teaching piano to try to make a living. 110 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: He actually fell in love with one of his students. 111 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: She's going to set a trend for his later life. 112 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: When her father forced him to end their relationship, he 113 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: became so ill that newspapers printed obituaries for him. Afterward, 114 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: he retreated from public performance for almost four years, and 115 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: he spent most of this time reading and teaching music. 116 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: He started to compose music again in eighteen thirty, following 117 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: the July Revolution in which King Charles the Tenth was 118 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: overthrown and succeeded by Louis Philippe. In his mother's words quote, 119 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: the cannons cured him, and afterward he met several more 120 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: famous names in the musical world, including Hector Berlioz, Niccolo Paganini, 121 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: and Frederic Chopin. Liszt met the married Comtesse Marie Dagoux 122 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: in eighteen thirty three, when he was twenty two years old. 123 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: In spite of her being married, he fell in love 124 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: with her and they were to be together for twelve years. 125 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: They eventually had three children together. To avoid the scorn 126 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: of Parisian society over this affair with a married woman, 127 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: they left and spent the next four years traveling through Europe, 128 00:07:55,880 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: including Switzerland, Italy, and other non Paris. Parts of his 129 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: travels and his love for her started to inspire him 130 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: to compose, and he wrote a set of sweets for 131 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: solo piano, which became the highly praised A ned de 132 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: Pillery nag. Over the next few years, lists reputation as 133 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: a musician grew just dramatically. He gave tours and performances 134 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: and really made a name for himself as a virtuoso 135 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: composer and pianist, and as well as an extremely charismatic 136 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: and very expressive performer. He also became known for being 137 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: quite generous with his music and his time. He often 138 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: taught people and also accepted official posts for free, so 139 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: he dealt all this without pay, and then he would 140 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: donate the proceeds from his concerts to charity. He also 141 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: developed a different reputation thanks to his behavior off stage. 142 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: James Honker's nineteen eleven biography, in chapter two, which is 143 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: called Aspects of his Art and Character, begins Lists and 144 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: the Ladies. It's like this is like the heading, so 145 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: it's like one list and the ladies. The feminine friendships 146 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: of Franz List gained for him as much notoriety as 147 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: his music making. To the average public, he was a 148 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: compound of Casanova, Byron and Gheta, and to this mixture 149 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: could have been added the name of stendhow lists, love affairs, lists, 150 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: children lists, perilous escape from daggers, pistols and poisons were 151 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: the subjects of conversation in Europe three quarters of a 152 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: century ago, as earlier Byron was both hero and black 153 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: sheep in the current gossip of his time. Let's just 154 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: add to the subjects of conversation right now. He was 155 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: also extremely attractive. Like I'm having trouble picking out which 156 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: extremely attractive picture of franz List should accompany our blog post, 157 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: in our show notes and and the episode itself, because 158 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: there are many. And he looks like he looks like 159 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: the boy at your high school. He was very sensitive 160 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: and soulful and wrote terrible poetry and made all of 161 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: the girls think that he was just so tragically attractive 162 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,439 Speaker 1: like that, that's what he looked like. Yeah, he looks 163 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: like every guy in every um movie about teenage forlornness 164 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: as well that like, he's so beautiful, no one will 165 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:24,599 Speaker 1: ever understand him. Yep, I'm not I'm kidding. He is 166 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: a pretty thing. I mean, he's very beautiful. So basically 167 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: this all meant that Bronze List was a nineteenth century 168 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: virtuo so piano rock star. And that's where this mania 169 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: comes in. We're going to talk about after a brief 170 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:56,199 Speaker 1: word from a sponsor. So to understand this mania that 171 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: erupted around Fronze List, let's start by talking about what 172 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,719 Speaker 1: he is like in concert. Here's any scription written by 173 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: Hans Christian Anderson of all people. As Lists sat before 174 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: the piano, the first impression of his personality was derived 175 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: from the appearance of strong passions in his land face, 176 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: so that he seems to me a demon nailed fast 177 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: to the instrument. Whence his tones streamed forth. They came 178 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: from his blood, from his thoughts. He was a demon 179 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 1: who would liberate his soul from the thralldom. He was 180 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: on the rack, his blood flowed and his nerves trembled. 181 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: But as he continued to play, so the demon vanished. 182 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,839 Speaker 1: I saw that pale face assumed a nobler and brighter expression. 183 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: The divine soul shone from his eyes. From every feature, 184 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: he became as beauteous as only spirit and enthusiasm can 185 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:53,199 Speaker 1: make their worshippers really. Liz had been breaking new ground 186 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: in his concert performances. It was not at this point 187 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: common for just a man and a piano to have 188 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:03,559 Speaker 1: a whole age to himself, But Liz did basically invent 189 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: this sort of recital as a performance format, and it 190 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: definitely wasn't common for someone to play the piano like 191 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: a demon turned divine. The whole performance was so enormously 192 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: expressive and a motive, and the audience tended to really 193 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: just get caught up in it. On top of that, 194 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: List played with the piano in profile so that people 195 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: could see his face while he played, and he would 196 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: whip his kind of longish hair around as he was playing, 197 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: which was very striking. He also played all of his 198 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: music from memory, which a lot of other musicians of 199 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: the day thought was extremely rude, especially when you were 200 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: playing work that someone else had written, which could make 201 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: people think that you had actually written it yourself. On 202 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: decembert one, Franz Liszt played the first concert in what 203 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: would be a ten week tour of Germany, and the 204 00:12:55,160 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: audience was overcome. Women shrieked and swooned, and there was 205 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: a general atmosphere of rapturous chaos and from the men jealousy. 206 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: It got weirder from there. People started wearing lockets and 207 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: brooches that had his face on them, which is not 208 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: that weird. I mean, it's not that much different from 209 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: having a T shirt with your favorite boy band face 210 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: on it. Women, however, started carrying vials with them in 211 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: case From's list walked away from some night not quite 212 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,199 Speaker 1: empty cup of coffee, so they could like spirit away 213 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: the unconsumed dregs of his coffee and then carry it 214 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:38,319 Speaker 1: around with them in that vial. People scavenged his old 215 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: coffee grounds and cigar butts. Also. There's even one story 216 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: of a lady in waiting having one of his discarded 217 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: cigar butts encased in a locket that had his initials 218 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: and jewels on the front. I love it. I mean 219 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,599 Speaker 1: that makes perfect sense to me. Do you remember that 220 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: Angelina Jolie and Billy Bob Thornton were walking around with 221 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: vials of one another's blood? Yes, it was like that, 222 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: I get it. Uh. Women would literally attack list when 223 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: this mania was going on, so they would tear off 224 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: parts of his clothes, They would try to snip pieces 225 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: of his hair, and they would fight one another for 226 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: their spoils. He'd throw gloves and handkerchiefs into the audience 227 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: after performances, and the scene would devolve into fisticuffs, sometimes 228 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: with the articles that people were fighting over being torn 229 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: to bits in the process. His manner of playing the 230 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: piano was also very prone to breaking strings, and women 231 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: would scavenge those broken springs also and then make them 232 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: into bracelets, which is one of the last weirds of 233 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: all of them. I love that. I love a little 234 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: crafty fandom. And yes, in case you're wondering, there are 235 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: reports of women throwing their garments onto the stage, including 236 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: their undergarments, although this is disputed as to whether or 237 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: not its fact or fancy. So although most of the 238 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: list Domania behavior has attributed to women, men definitely did 239 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: get on the action to some of them in their 240 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: own excitement and some of them in the form of 241 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: fighting one another in fits of jealousy. It was poet 242 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: and journalist Heinrich Heina who coined the word Liz dominy 243 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: on April four, at which point Liz had actually moved 244 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: on to Paris. And at first Hina actually thought this 245 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: whole phenomenon was a result of social and legal expectations. 246 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: In Germany, it was culturally more reserved than Paris, with 247 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: a more stringent law enforcement, So his supposition was that 248 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: people were taking this opportunity to legally blow off steam 249 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: where they could. But then Franzist came to Paris, where 250 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: people were a lot freer, there was a lot more 251 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: social wiggle room. The exact same thing happened, uh, and 252 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: he wrote quite a lot about it. We're not going 253 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: to read all of it, but we are going to 254 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: read kind of a lengthy bit of Heina's description, which 255 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: goes strange thought. These Parisians who have seen Napoleon, who 256 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: had to win one battle after another to hold their attention, 257 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: now they are claiming our franz List, and what in 258 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: acclaim it was a veritable insanity, one unheard of in 259 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: the annals of fur Or what is the reason of 260 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: this phenomenon? The solution of this question belongs to the 261 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: domain of pathology rather than that of esthetics. A physician 262 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: whose specialty is female diseases, and whom I asked to 263 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: explain the magic our list exerted upon his public smiled 264 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: in the strangest manner, and at the same time said 265 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: all sorts of things about magnetism, galvinism, electricity, of the 266 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: contagion of a close haul filled with countless wax lights 267 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: and several hundred perfumed and perspiring human beings, of historical epilepsy, 268 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: of the phenomenon of tickling of musical canthriads, and other 269 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: scabbarous things which I believe you have reference to the 270 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: mysteries of the Bonadilla. Perhaps the solution of the question 271 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,239 Speaker 1: is not buried in such adventurous depths, but floats on 272 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: a very prosaic surface. It seems to me at times 273 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 1: that all this sorcery may be explained by the fact 274 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: that no one on earth knows, uh knows so well 275 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: how to organize his successes or raise their mais en 276 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: as our franz List in this art he is a genius. 277 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: As we said at the top of the show, the 278 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 1: medical establishment thought this was a contagious, dangerous physical syndrome 279 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: that could actually be passed from one overwrought lady to another. 280 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 1: They feared an epidemic. So basically, people have been pathologizing 281 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: young women being really excited about music for almost a 282 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: hundred and seventy five years. That wasn't new with the Beatles, No, 283 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: not new with any boy bands since then. No, all 284 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: the way back to franz List, maybe even before. It's 285 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: possible that there were similar stories and other cultures. All 286 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 1: of the resources I had in my disposal were about 287 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: like the Western musical tradition. Who knows, so actually this 288 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: whole thing kind of plagued franz List, other musicians were 289 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: absolutely appalled at the audience's behavior, including really famous names 290 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: like Chopin and Schumann and Mendelssohn. A lot of people 291 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 1: in the musical world really started to dislike frands List 292 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: based on what they saw. Is this vulgar, needless hero 293 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: worship that was undecorous and dangerous. And lists own correspondence 294 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: sounds vaguely baffled at this pattern. I mean, he was 295 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 1: obviously doing some things to encourage it, like on purpose 296 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 1: throwing gloves and handkerchiefs into the audience, but he really 297 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: still didn't seem to quite fathom the extent of everybody's intensity. 298 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: But just like Beatlemania, Spice Girlmania and beaber Fever, it 299 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: eventually subsided. We're gonna talk about that some more after 300 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: we have a quick word from one of our fabulous sponsors. 301 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: So to get to the end of list Domania and 302 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 1: the end of brons lists life. In eighty seven, List 303 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: met Princess Caroline's son, Wittgenstein, and he met her in 304 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 1: Kiev and they started a relationship, and she, like his 305 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 1: previous long term love affair, was married. The princess wanted 306 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: him to stop touring and settle down and focus on 307 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: teaching and composing instead, and so while he and the 308 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: previous his previous love interest, the Contests had needed to 309 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:45,679 Speaker 1: escape Paris and scandal. Instead, List was installed in the 310 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: Princess's estates. His last paying concert was in September of 311 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: that year and he was thirty five. At the age 312 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: of thirty seven, he accepted the permanent post of Kapameister, 313 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: basically the person in charge of music for the Grand 314 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 1: Duke of Weimar. This position came with a royal benefactor, 315 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 1: Carl Alexander, to be his patron, so he had the 316 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: financial and social backing to just continue his own work. 317 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: Liz moved to Weimar, and the Princess later joined him there. 318 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: In addition to his ongoing teaching and composition, Lists started 319 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: trying to create new musical forms, the most famous of 320 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: these with the symphonic poem, which is a musical piecet 321 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: that's meant to evoke or illustrate a story or a 322 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: piece of visual art. These compositions were really groundbreaking, and 323 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 1: they attracted more music students he wanted to learn from him. 324 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: He dedicated most of his music around this time to 325 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: the Princess Caroline, and while in Weimar, Liszt wrote what's 326 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: considered to be his most accomplished symphonic work in Faus 327 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: Symphony or Faus Symphony. This is essentially a series of 328 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: interconnected symphonic poems based on Johann Wolfgang van Getta's tragic 329 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: play Faust. Geta and Schiller had both lived in wim Are, 330 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 1: and Liz drew musical inspiration from their literary work. His 331 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: post as Capitalmeister also meant that Liz was responsible for 332 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: conducting the Vimar Orchestra, and in doing so he really 333 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 1: revolutionized what it meant to conduct. Up until that point, 334 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: the conductor was basically a human metronome. He made sure 335 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: that all of the orchestra played in time with one 336 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: another and that nobody missed their cues. But list added 337 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: gestures and expressions and in emotive physical presence to guide 338 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: what the orchestra should sound like in the shape of 339 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: the playing itself. And this is pretty much taken for 340 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: granted in the field of conducting an orchestra today. That's 341 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: how it works. At the end of the eighteen fifties, 342 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: life became more difficult for Liz. He resigned his post 343 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 1: and VIMR in eighteen fifty nine, and at that point 344 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,360 Speaker 1: two of his children also died, one in that same 345 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: year that he resigned, and then another a few years 346 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,239 Speaker 1: later in eighteen sixty two. He also got caught up 347 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: in a musical feud known as the War of the Romantics, 348 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: and this pitted the more romantically inclined musicians list in 349 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: Richard Wagner against the more conservative, classically inclined traditionalist faction 350 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: of Robert Schumann, Felix Mendelsohn, and Johannes Brahms. This was 351 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: basically a dispute between the more avant garde musical scene 352 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,679 Speaker 1: and the composers who drew their influence from past masters 353 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 1: like Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven. This association with Wagner also 354 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: meant that Liz developed a reputation for having anti Semitic views, 355 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: but their significant dispute about whether quotations that were attributed 356 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,719 Speaker 1: to him in this area of thought were accurate or 357 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,880 Speaker 1: they were not. Yeah, at this point, Wagner is kind 358 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: of notoriously anti Semitic in his views, but I had 359 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 1: a hard time confirming exactly what lists views were. So 360 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: as this whole musical schism was going on, Lists moved 361 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: to Rome, where the Princess Caroline had gone to try 362 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 1: to get her previous marriage annulled by the Pope. She 363 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: Enlist hoped to get married, but her annulment did not 364 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 1: go through, so they did not, and at this point 365 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: Liz turned away from a lot of the world. In 366 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,679 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty three, he moved to an apartment at a 367 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 1: monastery outside of Rome, and two years later, in eighteen 368 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: sixty five, he cut his hair in a tonsure, so 369 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 1: that's the shaving of the middle part of the scalp 370 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: that leaves a ring of hair around it. At this point, 371 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: he took holy orders that same year, and he pursued 372 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: an extensive study of theology with the hope of joining 373 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: the clergy, and although he was never ordained, he did 374 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,639 Speaker 1: become an abbot and he produced a number of religiously 375 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: themed musical works. In eighteen seventy, List returned to Hungary 376 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: to visit, and while he was away from Rome, Victor 377 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: Emmanuel the Second attempted to unify all the Italian states 378 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: and essentially laid siege to Rome. Since he couldn't return, 379 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: List remained in Hungary and accepted a post at the 380 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 1: Royal National Hungarian Academy of Music in Budapest, and today 381 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: this is the Unlist Academy of Music. For the last 382 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: fifteen years of his life, List divided his time among Budapest, 383 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 1: Weimar and Rome. He continued to teach extensively and cultivated 384 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: the idea of a master class, and that's an idea 385 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: that's continued to be part of musical and other artistic 386 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 1: education today. He taught these demonstration based classes, he being 387 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: the master, of course, for free. He struggled with depression 388 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: and failing health towards the end of his life, and 389 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 1: he died in Germany on July thirty one, eight six. 390 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 1: By then, he had composed about fourteen hundred works. Although 391 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: he's pretty universally recognized as a virtuos piano player as 392 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: well as for his contributions to the art of conducting 393 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 1: and the idea of symphonic poems, there are still people 394 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,959 Speaker 1: that argue that his skill as a composer was all hype. Yeah. 395 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: I found several articles that were like, fri List, was 396 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 1: he really any good? I don't think so. That's always 397 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 1: the case with avant garde folks though, right well, and 398 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: it's also the case with excessively pretty soulful looking people 399 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:12,959 Speaker 1: who acquire an overly excited base of fans that like 400 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: to scream a lot, right, I mean you could say 401 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 1: that of any person in the arts or anything really weird, 402 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 1: Like if they have really rabid fans, there's always gonna 403 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: be a kickback of like, no, they're not worth all 404 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: of that, even if they are super talented and amazing, Right, 405 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,679 Speaker 1: people say that about the Beatles, and there it's like, 406 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: there are plenty of arguments you can make about the 407 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: Beatles and what their influences are and whether this influence 408 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: should have gotten more attention, and whether all of their 409 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: work is really great. But really, seriously, you can't just 410 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: dismiss the entirety of the Beatles because ladies were screaming 411 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: about them. Yeah, so they're also this whole phenomenon spawned 412 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: a weird rock opera about problem List in the nineteen 413 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: seventies that was called list Romania. And there's also a 414 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: song and album by the band Nix that became very 415 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: popular more much more recently. Um, if you want to 416 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: read all kinds of primary sources about Bronze List, the 417 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: Library of Congress has a whole bunch of them, a 418 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 1: bunch of them are on the web. Pretty aw cool. 419 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us on this Saturday. 420 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: If you have heard an email address or a Facebook 421 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 1: you are l or something similar over the course of 422 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 1: today's episode, since it is from the archive that might 423 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: be out of date. Now, you can email us at 424 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: history podcast at how stuff Works dot com, and you 425 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: can find us all over social media at missed in History. 426 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 1: And you can subscribe to our show on Apple podcasts, 427 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: Google podcast, the I Heart Radio app, and wherever else 428 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts. For more on this and thousands 429 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: of other topics, is it how stuff Works dot com.