WEBVTT - Beyond Wildest Imagination | Ashley's Story 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.680 Topics featured in this episode may be disturbing to some listeners. 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:06.240 Please take care while listening. 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:15.120 It's a deep, dark secret, and fortunately oftentimes we're able 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:18.919 to find content and actually talk with the suspect and 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:20.079 get an admission. 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:35.120 Yeah, it was mere. 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:41.920 I'm Andrea Gunning. This is Betrayal, Episode five, Beyond Wildest Imagination. 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:47.920 We ended up staying in Utah for more than a week. 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:50.960 I'm not complaining. It's a beautiful place to wake up 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:54.080 and start work every day. Another woman from the Salt 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:56.120 Lake City area had reached out to us and we 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:59.720 wanted to meet her. Mandy had listened to Jennifer Faceon's 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:00.720 story in season one. 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:05.280 She wrote, the same time Jennifer was going through her trauma, 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.280 I was going through mine. He was my. 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:12.520 Fairy tale, the love of my life, and I was blindsided. 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:17.400 To say the least, I lost everything. Hearing Jen's story 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:20.480 helped me not feel so alone and gave me more strength. 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:25.279 I can't say enough thank you. So we invited Mandy 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:28.040 to our airbnb to meet Ashley. When you're in a 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:30.880 small club that no one wants to belong to, it's 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:33.080 comforting to meet someone else who's been through it. 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:35.959 Here's Mandy speaking with Ashley. 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:39.200 What was it about listening to her story that, Like, 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:42.480 was it just the whole betrayal, Like just the fact 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:45.280 that you just knew nothing about the person that you 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:48.120 were supposed to know everything about. 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:51.280 Yeah, I think that's what drew me to it was 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:54.240 that it was like that betrayal. But what really got 0:01:54.280 --> 0:02:00.920 me and what made me even write in was Spencer 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:03.840 sounded like my husband. 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:05.160 Oh my gosh. 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:08.440 In season one of Betrayal, Jennifer Fason told the story 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:12.000 of a fairy tale marriage to her college sweetheart, Spencer Heron. 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:15.200 He appeared to be a picture perfect husband and caring 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:18.519 high school teacher. When he was arrested, Jennifer was shocked 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:21.359 to learn the reality was her husband had been sexually 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.760 assaulting one of his students and conducting dozens of affairs 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:28.360 during their marriage. His excuses and lack of accountability made 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:32.000 Jennifer realize her husband was a complete stranger. 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:34.600 And so then I felt like I connected even more 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:36.400 with Jen What about you? 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:39.800 The same, the exact same, the exact same. 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:43.800 Really, Yeah, listening to Spencer talk, it's just it's infuriating, 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:45.800 And I felt the exact same way. 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:49.320 I feel like, too, there's going to be some shit 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:53.040 ads that believe him because he is so believable. And 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:56.600 then I felt like that was my husband for the 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:58.120 last fourteen years. 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:00.760 The things that he would say really since that things 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:04.680 were happening, because there was things happening before that I 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:09.000 didn't understand, and explanations that he would give me. 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:11.640 I would be like, Okay, yeah, that makes sense. 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.320 Totally makes sense that we're losing the house and you 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:16.239 did this and you didn't talk to me about it. 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:19.200 Since Ashley and Mandy were both emboldened to share their 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:22.640 own stories after Jen shared hers, we gave Jenna. 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:26.440 Call I have you on speaker because you're with Ashley 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:30.120 and Andy, and Mandy has a very similar story to Ashley, 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:32.720 but they both as you know, Ashley wrote into the 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:34.040 show and so did Mandy. 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:34.960 It's how we found her. 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:38.240 Oh wow, thanks you guys. 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:42.120 Hi, it is so nice to talk to you. 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:46.400 You guys too, And I'm really really sorry about what 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:47.720 you have gone through. 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:48.520 You're sweet. 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:48.760 Jen. 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:50.680 Yeah, we're sorry too, girl. 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:53.240 I'm sorry that you went through it, but I'm grateful 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:55.360 that you shared your story with us. 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:55.840 Well. 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:58.640 I was just you know, looking for anybody who had 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:02.080 been in some sort of sitution situation that could relate. 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:06.600 I mean, they're not all the same, but you do 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:10.760 really feel alone out there and wonder, you know, does 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:12.200 anyone else go through this. 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:15.480 I'm so grateful for you sharing your hardship. 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:17.760 Thank you. I wish I was there with you. 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:20.960 Guys, I wish though too. We love you John. 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:24.240 As bad as it was, Ashley had a little time, 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:27.320 a few hours to process what her husband had done. 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:31.400 Mandy had none at all. 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:36.160 I met Michael through a mutual friend I worked with. 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:40.599 We started talking on Facebook one day and that's how 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:44.479 we started dating. And he was the absolute love of 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:47.200 my life. He was the sweetest guy ever. We started 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:51.520 dating exclusively at the end of twenty twelve, and then 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:53.160 we got married in twenty fourteen. 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:56.040 It's great. Our marriage was great. I loved it. 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:58.919 Mandy had shared with me that Michael and his father 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:01.080 were in business together but had a falling out in 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:04.880 twenty fifteen. It was an acrimonious split that left Michael 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:07.040 feeling angry and underappreciated. 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:10.400 His dad took away the whole business, like went behind 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:14.640 his back. It was a really low blow and that 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:18.440 really affected Mike. That when I got pregnant with Sophie. 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:21.039 He was like, we'll be fine, I'll find another job. 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:25.080 He was always into like programming and stuff like that, 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:29.719 so he decided that he wanted to do three D 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:31.520 design stuff. 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:35.160 He was down in that basement all the freaking time. 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:38.200 Mike spent so much time alone in the basement that 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:40.640 Mandy thought something nefarious was going on. 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:44.919 Maybe he was having an online affair. When he would leave. 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:46.880 I would go and look at the computer and at 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:50.200 the history, and there would be like a regular porn site, 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:51.960 and I was like, whatever, I don't care about that. 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:54.159 But it wasn't like excessive, you know. 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:57.680 When their daughter, Sophie was born, Michael re engaged with 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:01.400 the family for a while, then checked out again. 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:04.320 He just wasn't there. He was just never there. 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:07.599 Even my mom was like, something's going on with him. 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:09.680 He's being so weird, and I'm like, I know, I 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:12.400 don't know what it is. Every time I bring it 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.240 up or try to talk to me, gaslights me. I 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:18.599 don't know what to do. Then all this other stuff 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:21.760 was happening, like one one of the cars got repossessed, 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.599 and then he short sold the house, and then he 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:27.560 couldn't afford to pay the payments of the short cell, 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:29.200 so we had to go move in with his mom. 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:31.920 It was just like all boom boom, boom boom. 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:37.839 They lost everything in rapid succession. Mandy didn't have close 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:40.120 family support. It was scary. 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:41.920 She wrote it out. 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:43.920 For a while, and eventually Michael found a job at 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:47.520 a serial factory. Mandy made extra money working at a 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:51.000 local paper company. Michael's mother watched Sophie while they were 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:51.560 at work. 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:53.760 It was seeming like life was kind of getting a 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:58.039 little bit more normal again. He seemed to be pulling 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:01.799 himself out even more. He was actually going and doing 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:04.320 things with us, and so I was really hopeful. 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.640 During that period of optimism, Mandy was confronted with a 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:10.000 shocking dose of reality. 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:12.920 I worked four to midnight. I had just gotten to 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:17.400 work and my phone rang. I was like, well, I'm 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:17.680 not work. 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:19.840 I can't answer the phone, you know. So I ignored it, 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:20.800 and then they called. 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:22.520 Right back, and then they called right back again, and 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:24.320 then they called right back again, and I was like, okay, 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:29.160 obviously this is an emergency, you know. So I go 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:31.920 announswer my phone and it's this guy and he says 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:36.480 that he's a detective and that they're at my mother 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:37.600 in law's house. 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:43.440 Who incidentally, one week before the detective repeatedly called Mandy 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:47.520 at work. Two police officers were canvassing her neighborhood. 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:51.480 One day, we were about ready to take Sophie to 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:55.200 the park and this random older Toyota Corolla car pulls 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:57.559 up with these two people in it. 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:02.960 They get out and I mean they parked like right 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:06.840 in front of his mom's house and they see us 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:07.480 and they're like hi. 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:09.440 They're super friendly and they're like how are you guys, 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:11.360 and really good and they're like. 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:13.280 Do you live here? And we're like, oh, yeah, we 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:13.880 live here. 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:17.120 And they're like, oh well, we're just with the police 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:19.800 department and we're looking for this guy and they show 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:22.680 a picture of this like hispanic guy. I'm all, no, 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:24.960 I haven't seen anybody. And he's like, so, who all 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:28.520 lives here? And we all introduce ourselves and then he's 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:30.120 like your husband's here and I'm like yeah. 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:31.440 He's like look, can you go get them? 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:34.040 And I was like sure, And so they introduced themselves 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:36.240 and ask him the same question, show him the picture 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:38.199 and he's like, no, I haven't seen anything, and. 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:39.160 They're like, okay, thanks. 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:42.240 Now a detective said he needed to come and pick 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:43.280 her up at work. 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:45.280 I was like, oh my god. And so I'm like 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:48.360 did I do something? Like I'm all like freaking out, 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:50.280 like what did I have like this unpaid ticket? And 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:51.120 they need to come to my. 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:53.720 House like I was all these thoughts were and they like, 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:55.760 just give us where you're at and we're gonna come 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:59.560 right now. I saw FBI on their vests and stuff, 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.200 and I was, Okay, this isn't anything that I could 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:04.240 have done, Like I know, I haven't you know what 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:08.280 I mean, Like that's crazy. He's like, Mandy, I'm not 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:11.520 gonna sugarcoat anything. I'm just gonna tell you we're serving 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:14.480 the search warm because your husband's been looking at downloading 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:17.840 childhorn on the dark web for the past two years. 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:22.959 I just started screaming. I remember, just dropped him my 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:24.280 knees and started screaming. 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:29.400 Nothing made sense, and yet it suddenly all made sense. 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:33.199 The long hours in the basement, his complete withdrawal from 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:34.040 the family. 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:40.000 Was hard to hear that. It was so embarrassed. I 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:45.119 was so ashamed. I was so frustrated. I felt so stupid. 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:49.800 I mean, life was already not like it was before, 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.640 but everything changed from there. 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:55.360 I still struggle with it. 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:59.400 I gave him all of me. I gave him everything. 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:04.560 I never trusted another man like that, and then to 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:09.280 do that, to do that like that is to me. 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:14.200 The worst thing you could do. Those are children. I 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:16.120 can't even trust you with our child. 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:18.600 Her house resembled a scene out of Law and Order, 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.800 except it was her real life and Olivia Benson wasn't 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:23.839 making an appearance. 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:26.719 As soon as we pulled down his street. 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:31.840 The big huge Rvy, it's like bigger than an Arvy, 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:33.560 just blocking the whole driveway. 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:35.599 They're pulling out computers. 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:39.040 The two police officers who were there the week prior, 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:41.360 supposedly looking for a drug dealer. 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:44.640 That guy was just a big guy. They just were 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:46.760 coming there to make sure Michael was there so they 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:50.360 didn't have to send in all these people and him 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:51.840 not be there. 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.319 Former Utah US attorney John Hubert mister. 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:07.280 Gibbs, who was part of an international ring is stretch 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:11.480 from Korea through the United States and beyond using bitcoin 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:15.640 and anonymizing efforts to hide what they were doing on 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:20.480 the dark web and through hard work, detective work, cyber 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:23.880 sleuthing they were able to find mister Gibbs and an 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:26.720 effect a search worn on his home in Utah and 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:29.800 confirmed that he was part of this conspiracy. 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.480 This website was one of the largest and most vile 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:37.760 child sexual assault websites in the world. Among those arrested 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:41.960 was a US Border Patrol agent, former Homeland Security agent, 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:43.960 and assistant high school principal. 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:49.200 They looked to everything, every nook and connie of that house, 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:51.559 and I had to just stand there and watch him 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:56.040 do it. The detective was asking me all sorts of 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:57.800 questions too, while I'm standing there. 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:00.680 Was he downstairs? There a lot? 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:02.520 Did he hide out a lot from you? Is there 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:06.520 any other computers? Any other devices? They took every device 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:09.360 except my phone. They didn't even ask to see my 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:11.839 phone or anything. They took everything else. 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:17.079 Michael's arrest shattered Mandy. She simply could not bear it. 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:20.440 Their small family that she loved so much went up 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:24.320 in flames. Mandy and her daughter continue to live with 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:27.520 Michael's mother, but Mandy struggled. 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:30.800 The first month. I couldn't even eat because I was 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:31.439 just sick. 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:36.560 I was sick that that man could have done those things. 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:41.040 I just completely lost myself. I don't even want to 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.400 make excuses. I'm so ashamed of the way that I 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:47.679 handled it. I could have been stronger. 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:50.720 She turned to an old dependency to ease the pain. 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:53.720 I was just so angry. 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.040 I wanted to be angry for a really long time, 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.280 and alcohol just fueled that anger. 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:02.400 I feel like it was good to go through that 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:04.000 because I. 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:07.160 Don't want to carry that anger around anymore. That's exhausting. 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:11.120 I went to treatment. I was in treatment for a whole. 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:15.040 Year while Mandy's got help for substance abuse. Michael's case 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:19.320 moved forward. Eventually he was granted release on unsecured bond, 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:22.400 no bail. His release meant he would move back to 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:26.000 his mother's house, and that Mandy and her daughter needed 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:29.280 to find somewhere else to live. A close friend, the 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:32.160 father of Mandy's other daughter, offered them a place to stay, 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:35.679 and they've become much closer through this awful experience. 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:37.600 I was on Sophie's birthday. 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:41.280 Actually it's like one in the morning, and he was 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:43.840 trying to get me to like let him see Sophie, 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:47.440 and I was like absolutely not, like no, and all 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:49.400 of a sudden, Michael just walks in the back door 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:51.480 he's totally pasted, and he's like. 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:54.280 You need to talk to me right now, blah blah blah. 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.480 So his roommate picks up the phone calls the police. 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:01.440 He had shoved me too because I talk to him, 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:04.040 and so at that point at least come and they 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:07.320 took him back to Joe. He still got released again 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.720 after that, but that was on house arrest. 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.640 Michael tried to convince Mandy that the content he downloaded 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:19.280 wasn't that bad. He never tells me the truth. 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:23.000 It's always it wasn't even that much, or it was 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:24.120 I didn't even look at it. 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:26.400 It wasn't even stuff that I looked at. What else. 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:30.400 They weren't like little kid little kids. It's like, you know, 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:34.640 like younger girls. It was only a couple things in there. 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:36.800 A lot of the other stuff was like adult stuff. 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:37.600 You know. 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:40.040 It was because I was taking so much adderall and 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:42.560 that made me just like really compulsive and want to 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:43.680 download all this stuff. 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:48.640 Mister Gibbs had one hundred videos of some of the 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:51.840 most deviant conduct that you could imagine and hopefully never 0:14:52.080 --> 0:15:00.480 have to imagine. Egregious, disgusting, violent videos of young earls 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:04.560 who were bound and raped, in front of the camera, 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.600 and you have one hundred videos and thirty images of 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:10.040 that type of conduct. 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:15.080 I tried so long to understand and to reason. I 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:16.040 have to tell you. 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:18.880 When I sat at John Huber's office, I saw the 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:21.880 description of the images that Mandy's husband was looking at. 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:26.120 They were in the sentencing memorandum. I got through too. 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:31.720 I don't know. Up until this point, I was existing 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:35.360 in ignorance that I just couldn't conceive this awful reality. 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.960 We've been focusing so much on the families and their trauma, 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:42.720 but now the violence was right in front of me. 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:46.280 I couldn't help a cry. 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:52.080 It really is as bad as John said. Other revelations 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:56.040 in the document offered insight into Michael's defense of his behavior. 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:01.720 During his evaluation, he claimed that his abuse of Adderall 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:06.000 had caused weird sexual behaviors and a weird impulse to 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:09.360 forward and collect. And this is a direct quote from 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:14.480 the sentencing memorandum. Whatever drove the defendant's highly devian acts, 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:18.720 one thing is clear. The Adderall didn't make him do it. 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:22.880 After all, the defendants stopped taking Adderall eight months before 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:26.480 law enforcement appeared at his doorstep seized his personal cell 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:30.080 phone and found many sickening videos and images plainly kept 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:36.480 by him. There were a few other details worth noting 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:40.400 in the report. The evaluator requested treatment for meth addiction. 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:44.080 The finding was that there was a paraphilic disorder, but 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:48.520 it was not pedophilia but fetishistic disorder. And the last 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.920 and most disturbing, some of the victims in his video 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:55.800 collection were the same age as his toddler daughter. 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:00.360 I didn't want to know the details of it. A 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:03.160 totally other nightmare that I don't want to live. 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:07.399 You know, Michael's sentence was meaningful, forty eight months in 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:08.199 federal prison. 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:10.520 Still you could say he caught a break. 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:13.920 The government wanted sixty months, and it could have gone 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:17.160 as high as eighty four. When Mandy last heard from him, 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.160 he was in a halfway house, preparing to re enter society. 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:24.159 We've been talking a lot about justice and how perpetrators 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:26.320 of c SAM were prosecuted and sentenced. 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:28.440 I wanted to take a step back. 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:30.480 And meet some of the people on the ground who 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:33.399 chase down the leads generated by the National Center for 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:36.879 Missing and Exploited Children. The people who go on those raids, 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:38.800 a lot of them are part of the Internet Crimes 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:42.400 Against Children Task Force or i CAAQ. For sure, there's 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:46.359 at least one in every state. IICAC members include federal, state, 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:50.600 and local law enforcement. Detective Rue from the Riverton Police Department, 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:54.040 he's a part of IKAK. The task force investigates and 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:58.760 develops responses to Internet crimes against children. These individuals are 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:03.520 unsung heroes. Their purpose for existing is to keep kids safe, 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.440 and as we learn, it's often at great personal cost. 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.000 While in Utah, I wanted to visit with them. 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.760 I'm Alan White, I'm the Utah Internet Crims Against Children 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:17.199 task Force Commander for the State of Utah. It's out 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:20.720 of control. Just back at the commander's meeting. All task 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:25.080 forces are receiving so many cyber tip referrals from the 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:30.160 National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, processing twenty six 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:34.199 million cyber tips annually. In Utah, we're on track to 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:36.320 see four thousand of those tips. 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:40.240 The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children is a 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:43.240 private nonprofit that receives most of the tips about child 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:47.840 sexual abuse material. Some tips come from individuals, but most 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:51.400 come from social media companies. The Center then contacts local 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:54.600 law enforcement or the state's ICAC team who follow up 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:55.240 on those tips. 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:58.320 The case agents determine is that going to be a 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:00.919 knock and talk or do we do a full search 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.000 warrant and take a tactical team up to the door 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.959 and serve a search warrant. In some cases it's more educational. 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:10.280 It may indicate that it's more of a teenager, and 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:15.560 we'll try to focus that interaction more on education. We 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:17.639 were out doing a knock and talk a couple of 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:20.840 weeks ago and it ended up being. 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:23.720 A six year old little girl with a YouTube account and. 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:26.679 There was a legal content on it. 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:28.959 Google had flagged the account and shut it down. 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:31.920 This six year old girl was taking images of herself 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:35.080 and posting them online, and they were concerning enough to 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:38.520 trip whatever algorithm is in place a flag seesam. Her 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:41.240 parents had no idea what their daughter was doing. 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:43.800 They have a phone, they have a camera, they have 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:47.800 a video recorder, they have email. It's a small computer, 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:53.000 and we're giving these smart devices to our children with 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:57.960 unfettered access, and they can manipulate those devices a lot 0:19:58.000 --> 0:19:58.600 better than. 0:19:58.840 --> 0:19:59.720 Some of the adults. 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.719 That case was an exception, but an opportunity to educate 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:07.520 her parents. Most of the tips Ikak receives are of 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:12.520 people deliberately creating or downloading child sexual abuse imagery. Alan 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:15.040 has seventeen years in the field and he's seeing the 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:17.000 damage CCM offenders cause. 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:21.560 I started this work back in two thousand and six, 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:26.360 and I've had different thoughts throughout the years, but as. 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:32.360 Prevalent as it is, and the amount of manipulation these 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:37.639 suspects due to their families, I've had suspects say in 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:39.880 an interview, I wondered when you were going to show 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:44.600 up their families and the ones they love the most. 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:49.879 They're collateral victims and it destroys these families and we 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:52.320 get to witness the beginning. 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:56.159 Of that destruction when we make contact with these people. 0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:58.960 This type of work takes a toll. 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:05.560 Watching the video to write a description, and that's the 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:06.720 absolute worst. 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:07.120 Part of the job. 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:11.639 It's emotional, it's not easy. 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:18.080 The day to day is so I'm thinking of images 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:21.720 and videos in my mind that I've experienced, and it's 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:29.800 beyond your wildest imagination. What motivates me saving kids, the 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:34.959 children we rescue is enough motivation that I'm still in 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:36.639 the game. I want to be on the team that 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:38.200 continues to protect children. 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:42.200 There have been days when Alan literally left, walked out 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:44.879 and said, I'll be back tomorrow, but I can't do 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:53.199 any more today. You tell State Attorney General Sean Reyes 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:56.000 acknowledged how tough it gets for his officers. 0:21:56.680 --> 0:22:02.160