1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History class from how 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:18,760 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy me Wilson. And today we have a listener 4 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: request from Anna one that I had a little trouble 5 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: finding information about. Not for the usual reason, no, for 6 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,479 Speaker 1: an unusual but funny reason. Yes, the usual reason is 7 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: that something is either obscure or so long ago that 8 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: everything is contradictory. This one was difficult because many many 9 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: people use the word luodite, I mean like some obstinate, 10 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: foot draggy person who doesn't want to adopt the new 11 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: technology right um. And and many of the articles that 12 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: use the term that way also include just enough floodite 13 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: history that it gets tagged that way, and all the 14 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: databases and so researching about the Luodites means that you 15 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: have to wait through all kinds of stuff about people 16 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 1: not want to fancy your phones or new technologies or 17 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: like some you know, new massively open online course thing, 18 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: all kinds or I myself have called myself a luddite 19 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: when I have to call someone on the phone instead 20 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 1: of texting them, like some kind of flodite. Yeah, it's 21 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: one of those words that's been kind of co opted 22 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,559 Speaker 1: into modern slang, right, And I think because it sounds 23 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: inherently funny, just because of the construction of the word um, 24 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 1: that's why people love it so much. Yes, And while 25 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 1: there was an anti technology piece to the Leodite rebellion, 26 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: that's not really what it was about. It's one small 27 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: element of a much bigger picture, right. The The idea 28 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: that the Ludites were just anti machine zealots who dragged 29 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: their feet against progress and went around smashing things is 30 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: not really the whole picture at all. So that's what 31 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about today, and thanks to Anna 32 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: for suggesting it. It So. The Ladite Uprising was a 33 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: series of protests in northern England in which workers smashed 34 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: machines in mills and factories. So this wasn't the first 35 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: organized violence against machinery, and England wasn't the only place 36 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: where people took to breaking machines to try to protest something. 37 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: But the Luodites are of all the machine breakers, the 38 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: most famous ones and the really the only ones whose 39 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: name became synonymous was something. Yeah, We've talked about it 40 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:32,839 Speaker 1: even a little bit in another podcasts. We talked about 41 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: it in the Sewing Machine podcast. The words sabotage comes 42 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: from the word for shoe suboh, which got thrown into things. 43 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: But the leadites are exactly what you said. They have 44 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: become completely synonymous with this anti machinery, violent hatred for it, 45 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: right when it's not, you know, not so much what 46 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: it was about. So, yeah, this was taking place we 47 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: should contextualize in the early nineteenth century, so it was 48 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: towards the end of the Industrial Revolution, the American War 49 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 1: end the Pendance was still a pretty recent memory, and 50 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: the Napoleonic Wars between England and France had been going 51 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: on for a while. So in England money was really tight. 52 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:12,519 Speaker 1: Times were pretty hard, and food was becoming scarce and expensive, 53 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,239 Speaker 1: and the French Revolution was also in the very recent past, 54 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: so the people in charge were more anxious than usual 55 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: about the idea of poor people rising up against rich people. 56 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: It was a time of general unrest and mistrust, right, 57 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: and the War of eighteen twelve was looming at this point. 58 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: So in addition to no longer trading with France, England 59 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: also wasn't trading with the young United States, and the 60 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: textile industry was really suffering as a result. The increased 61 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: work that was coming from putting clothing on soldiers was 62 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: not making up for the drop in trade. Uh And 63 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: in addition, trade unions had been outlawed by the Combination 64 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: Acts of sevent eighteen hundred, so people were not allowed 65 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: to band together to try to get an increase in 66 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: pay or decrease in hours, or to strike. The penalty 67 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: was jail time or hard labor, and if you gave 68 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: some money to somebody who had been convicted to help 69 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: them out, you could actually be fined for your charitable inclination. 70 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: On top of the legal issues with unionizing, when labor 71 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: disputes came up, there wasn't always some kind of central 72 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: place to go in protest or to raise concerns. Um 73 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: Some larger factories had been built, but a lot of 74 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: aspects of textile work we're still really a cottage industry. 75 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: So when people were doing their work at home or 76 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 1: in a small mill that was operated by just a 77 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: couple of people, there wasn't really one juggernaut of an 78 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: employer where people could go in petition for change. So 79 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: when you're a knitter working out of your home, you 80 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: can't really just have a picket line of one out 81 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: in your front yard. I mean you could, but it 82 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: would not be a very effective form of protests. Really 83 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: wouldn't probably make the statement you were aiming for. No. Uh, 84 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: and machines get a lot of the spotlight in the 85 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: Ladite uprising, But the mechanization in question had really started 86 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: a full two years earlier, when William Lee invented the 87 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 1: stocking frame, and this was a knitting machine that many 88 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: people feared would put traditional knitters out of work. The 89 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: concern was great enough that Queen Elizabeth the First actually 90 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: denied lea patent and outlawed the frames production, saying quote, 91 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: I have too much love for my poor people who 92 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: obtained their bread by the employment of knitting to give 93 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 1: my money to forward an invention that will tend to 94 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: their ruin, which is a lovely sentiment on her part. 95 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: A lot of her successors shared this sentiment and continued 96 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 1: to support traditional production over machine production. But by the 97 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: turn of the nineteenth century, manufacturers are starting to defy 98 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: the law and mechanize anyway. At first, workers took a 99 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: legal course of action, and they raised money to lobby 100 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: Parliament to try to keep mechanization illegal, but their efforts 101 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: failed and Parliament repealed the laws that were on the 102 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: books in eighteen o nine, but the stocking frame, along 103 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: with other improvements, ultimately allowed the textile industry to grow 104 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: and then turns of overall numbers. It created more jobs 105 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: than it eliminated in the very long run, but in 106 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: the short term people were losing their jobs, and at 107 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: the same time, mechanization had sparked a number of disputes 108 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,919 Speaker 1: over wages and working conditions and the quality of work, 109 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: and these disputes were really at the heart of the 110 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: Laddite complaints. A good example of the wage issue came 111 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: from the manufacture of wool cloth. Before mechanization, skilled laborers 112 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 1: called croppers would use tools, some of which weighed about 113 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: fifty pounds, to smooth out the surface of the wool. 114 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: This required both strength and skill, and so experienced croppers 115 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 1: could demand higher wages than a lot of other textile 116 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: workers could. But when cropping machines were invented, traditional croppers 117 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: weren't needed anymore, and the other jobs that were being 118 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: created required less skill and therefore paid less money. So 119 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: as cropping machines became widespread, many croppers just wound up unemployed. 120 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: They also had a reputation for being unsavory and rowdy, 121 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: and the croppers made up some of the most violent Luddites. 122 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: Conditions in newly open factories were very often really not 123 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: what you would categorize this ideal, and many of them 124 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: workers were required to live in dormitories, and those spaces 125 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: were very cramped and tended to be dirty. People would 126 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: have their pay docked for all kinds of really seemingly 127 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: insignificant infractions, and the hours were really long and the 128 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: work was really tedious, so it while it may have 129 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: given you a living wage, it was not a very 130 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: enjoyable life that you were leading at that point. And 131 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: then there's the question of quality. Framework knitters, for example, 132 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: had been making garments entirely on frames, so to make 133 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: stockings they would use the frame to knit a tube 134 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: of material. But new mechanization and manufacturing techniques were making 135 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: it possible to cut garments out that used to be 136 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: made on the frame, out of a large piece of 137 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: cloth and then stitched me together. These were known as 138 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: cut ups, and they require less skilled to make, and 139 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: the workers and a lot of other people really perceived 140 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: them to be of much lower quality than things that 141 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: had been made as one piece, and that's still the case, 142 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: you know, and coultur work things that are actually certified 143 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: as coultur, Like there are lace pieces that are no themes, 144 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: and then if there's a lot of seeming and piecing, 145 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: it's seen as less So yeah, it's still a consistent 146 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: mindset about how things are assembled in terms of textile. 147 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: Workers were really angry about the decline and quality. I mean, 148 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: people the wages and the living conditions get a lot 149 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: of attention, but there was a lot of anger about Okay, 150 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 1: now this is less good work. Why are you making 151 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: us few work that's not as good? Yeah, they didn't 152 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: want their industry to go downhill. Uh, And workers didn't 153 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: like that the people were being employed in the garment 154 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: industry that weren't apprenticed first, So it factors into that 155 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 1: whole quality issue. H This practice was known as culting, 156 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: and the quality of the work was poor in part 157 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 1: because people weren't actually trained to do it. They hadn't 158 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: gone through that apprenticeship period to learn their trade. They 159 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: just got put in the factory floor. So while the 160 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: Luodites have a reputation for being anti machine and a 161 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: hallmark of the Luddite uprising was smashing machines to bits. 162 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: It wasn't the machines themselves that were the problem. The 163 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: Loodites were fine with machines as long as the people 164 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: using them were trained to do it well and safely, 165 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: and had fair wages and working hours, and as long 166 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: as the introduction of machines wasn't erasing more jobs than 167 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: it created or cranking out poor quality kids. There were 168 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: many tradespeople who took part in the Ladite protests, but croppers, 169 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: handloom weavers, and knitters, who were the ones most affected 170 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 1: by mechanization at the time, were the most prominent. Exactly 171 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: which workers were at the forefront varied based on which 172 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: trades were most practiced in any particular area. From the 173 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: second chapter of Charlotte Bronte's novel Surely, which was published 174 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: about forty years later and was set during the Ladite Uprising, quote, 175 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: it would not do to stop the progress of invention, 176 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: to damage science by discouraging its improvements. The war could 177 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: not be terminated. Efficient relief could not be raised. There 178 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: was no help then, so the unemployed underwent their destiny, 179 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: ate the bread and drank the waters of affliction. Misery 180 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: generates hate. These sufferers hated the machines which they believed 181 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: took their bread from them. They hated the buildings which 182 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,199 Speaker 1: contained those machines. They hated the manufacturers who owned those buildings. 183 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: So that's the context for the protest which started on 184 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: March eleventh, eighteen eleven. That's when protesters in Nottingham got 185 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: together to demand better wages and British troops had to 186 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: break up the demonstration. But the protesters didn't just go 187 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: home peacefully once they had been dispersed that night, they 188 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: broke into a factory in a nearby town and smashed 189 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: all the machines. Although the name Luddite hadn't been coined yet, 190 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: history generally marched this as the first Luddite protest, and 191 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: from there, operating under cover of night, people smash machines 192 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: and factories, and sometimes even set factories on fire as 193 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: part of their demonstrations. There wasn't a lot of local 194 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: law enforcement at the time. Towns didn't really have a 195 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: police force to call on, so most of the response 196 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: wound up coming from the military and from the owners 197 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: of the mills, who armed themselves and hired men to 198 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: help defend their property. By January of eighteen twelve, protests 199 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: were occurring pretty much every night, and they spread to 200 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: Lancashire and the West riding of Yorkshire. From there they 201 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: moved to Leicestershire and Derbyshire, and the government dispatched three 202 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: thousand troops to try to stop these protests. For a 203 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: sense of what was going on at these incidents, here's 204 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: an example of a reward poster from January twelve which 205 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: offered two hundred pounds for knowledge about a frame breaking incident. 206 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: Whereas on Thursday night last, about ten o'clock, a great 207 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: number of men armed with pistols, hammers and clubs entered 208 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: the dwelling house of George Ball, framework knitter of Linton, 209 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: near Nottingham, disguised with masks and handkerchiefs over their faces 210 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: and in other ways. And after striking and abusing the 211 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: said George Ball, they wantedly and feloniously broke and destroyed 212 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: five stocking frames standing in the workshop, four of which 213 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: belonged to George Ball, and one frame forty gauge belonging 214 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: to Mr Francis Breathwaite Hosier, all of which we're working 215 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: at the full price. The poster also a test that 216 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: workman Thomas Rowe, John Jackson and Thomas Naylor were working 217 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: on the frames at the time, being paid and had 218 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: no complaint with either George Ball or Francis Breathwaite. Soldiers 219 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: started raiding houses and they were setting ambushes to try 220 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,839 Speaker 1: to stop these protests, and Parliament saw machine breaking is 221 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: such a threat to Northern England that it made machine 222 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: breaking a capital crime. Among this law's detractors in Parliament 223 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: was Lord Byron, whose first speech in the House of 224 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 1: Lords was against the death penalty for machine breakers. I 225 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: just want to take a moment to note year that 226 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: we had gone from the Queen saying that she would 227 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: not allow machines to be made because it was taking 228 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: the livelihood of poor people too. If you break a machine, 229 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,959 Speaker 1: we will hang you. That is the trajectory we've gone 230 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: through rather rapidly. Right. So violence escalated, with protesters and 231 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: factory people taking shots at one another. When Luddites were 232 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: killed during demonstrations, they would retaliate by killing the mills owners. 233 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: April of eighteen twelve was a particularly bloody month in Manchester. 234 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: A mill owner ordered his men to fire into a 235 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: crowd of protesters who were threatening his factory's machines. At 236 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: least three people died and eighteen were wounded. The next day, 237 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: soldiers killed at least five more people. On April eleven, 238 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: William Cartwright, who was owner of Rawford's mill, fortified the 239 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: mill with things like iron bars and a vat of 240 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: acid to pour on protesters. He had been appointed as 241 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,839 Speaker 1: a constable to supplement the army in the Militia about 242 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: a month before, and he gathered soldiers and attacked a 243 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: group of about a hundred protesters who were approaching the mill. 244 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: Two of the protesters were killed. This protest was one 245 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 1: of the most prominent events and the Ludite uprising in 246 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: the West Riding, and it was one of the inspirations 247 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: for Charlotte Bronte's novel Shirley, which we quoted from earlier. 248 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: On the twenty April, William Horsefall, a manufacturer who had 249 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: boasted that he would ride up to his saddle in 250 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: Luddite blood, was killed in an ambush. Joseph Radcliffe, a magistrate, 251 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: called in more troops to fight the protesters and put 252 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: the area under martial law. Radcliffe was eventually given a 253 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: baronetcy for his work during the Ldite riots. In spite 254 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: of the presence of troops for much of the Ldite 255 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: ride at riots, it was hard for officials to get 256 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: things under control. The Luddites were doing most of their 257 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: machines mashing at night while masked, and they usually had 258 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: the support of the local people, so a lot of 259 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: times they were protected from the legal forces who were 260 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: hunting them down. And although the movement was relatively coordinated, 261 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: there wasn't one central leadership that the army could find 262 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: and capture to put an end to the whole thing. 263 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: By May of eighteen twelve, fourteen thousand, four hundred troops 264 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: had been sent to fight these riots. The military force 265 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: in England became bigger than Wellington's army in Portugal, and 266 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: it was far bigger than any military force ever used 267 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: to fight domestic unrest in England. As the protest escalated, 268 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: Bloodites were arrested and tried, with the courts trying to 269 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: make an example of the people who were on trial 270 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: to discourage for their protests. Bloodyites were sentenced to prison, 271 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: transported to Australia, or hanged. Eventually, Benjamin Walker, William Thorpe, 272 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: Thomas Smith, and George Miller confessed to being involved in 273 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: the murder of William Horsefall. Walker turned King's evidence and 274 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: the other three men were hanged the following January. Another man, 275 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: William Hall, turned King's evidence in both the Horsefall investigate 276 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: sin and the investigation into the attack on Rawford's Mill, 277 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: and he betrayed sixteen other Luddites to the Crown. When 278 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: the defendants were tried and the Rawford's Mill attack, the 279 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: jury didn't even adjourn for deliberation. They talked about among 280 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: themselves for a moment before delivering a guilty verdict against 281 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: eight defendants. In May of eighteen twelve, several defendants were 282 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: tried at a special commission in Lancashire, but none of 283 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: them on charges of machine breaking. Most of the charges 284 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: were for food riots, arson and making illegal oaths. Even so, 285 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: eight people were sentenced to death and seventeen were sentenced 286 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: to transportation to Australia. Seven others were sentenced to prison. 287 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: The courts weren't the only ones trying to frighten the 288 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: protesters and to staying in line. Leaders of the movement 289 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: were also using scare tactics of their own. In some areas, 290 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: Luddites took an oath that should they reveal Ludite secrets, 291 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: they would be quote sent out of the world by 292 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: the first brother who shall meet me, and my name 293 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: and character blotted out of existence, never to be remembered, 294 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: but with contempt and abhorrence. So people were reluctant to 295 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: blow the whistle on Luddites that they knew, either because 296 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 1: of genuine support for the movement or because they feared 297 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: the retribution indicated in that oath. In the summer of 298 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 1: eighteen twelve, General Thomas Maitland came to put the rebellion down. 299 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: He offered pardons to people who renounced bloodism and money 300 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: to the people who informed on other protesters. Since the 301 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 1: lie and activities were really happening at night, he ordered 302 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: the troops to fight them. At night. Soldiers broke up 303 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: meetings and imprisoned protesters. An anonymous person sent Maitland a 304 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: letter that that September detailing a number of public houses 305 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,719 Speaker 1: where Luddites met, and there were of course raids followed 306 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 1: by arrests. As a consequence. Sixty four men stood trial 307 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: at York Castle in eighteen thirteen. Seventeen were executed for 308 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: machine breaking were sent to Australia for giving or receiving 309 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 1: illegal oaths. Twenty two were acquitted or released on bail, 310 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 1: and that's when the Luddite rebellion really started to dissipate. 311 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: The peak of the Luddite activity was in eighteen eleven 312 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: and eighteen twelve, but protests continued until eighteen sixteen. The 313 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: textile industry continued on its path of mechanization, and the 314 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: rebellion failed in all of its aims. It didn't stop mechanization. 315 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: It didn't save people's jobs or wages. It didn't reverse 316 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: the trend of manufacturers making lower quality goods. It didn't 317 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 1: change working conditions in fledgling factories. They really failed on 318 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: all accounts, and many of them lost their lives doing it. Yes, 319 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 1: and yet while the protest was still a failure, and 320 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't the first riot like this in history, 321 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: the Luddite name has lasted for two hundred years, unlike 322 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: all of the other machine breaking incidents. Uh, the word Luddite, 323 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,959 Speaker 1: as we said earlier, became synonymous was something that relates to, 324 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: although is not exactly the same as what the original 325 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 1: protest was all about. Today, there's also a neo Luddite 326 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 1: moved the centers on the idea that technology's central place 327 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 1: in our lives is damaging some of this linguistic staying power, 328 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 1: maybe thanks to the flair for lack of a better word, 329 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: that the Luddites put into their protests. They were so 330 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: passionate and it's such an it's an image that's so 331 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: easy to conjure in your mind of someone smashing machine tibits, 332 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: that it just naturally people make the association, and it's yeah. Well, 333 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: and then rather be rather than being an unruly smash 334 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 1: and grab mob, they targeted which mills to go after, 335 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: and then they disguised themselves to do so. And they 336 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: also wild disguised did military style drills on the moors 337 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: at night. And they communicated through secret hand signals, using 338 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: gestures to send messages and identify one another, as well 339 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: as conveying poems and songs to each other. Yeah, you 340 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 1: can still find a lot of the lyrics to these online. Uh. 341 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 1: The name came about through the mythic character of Ned Luod, 342 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: also known as Captain General Lud or King Lood. The 343 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,199 Speaker 1: first known use of this name in the context of 344 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: the protests came in November of eighteen eleven. It probably 345 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: stems from an incident that allegedly took place twenty two 346 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 1: years before, when an apprentice whose last name was lud 347 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: Or Ludlum smashed a stocking frame in rage after being 348 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 1: told to square his needles. So his name kind of 349 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: stuck and became the name of this mythic leader of 350 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 1: the movement, even though he had nothing to do with it. 351 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: He had nothing to do with it, and there was 352 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: no blood leading the riots when they actually happened. Yeah, 353 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: but the story spread and Luod became the face, though 354 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: invisible of the movement. King Lood became a mythic figure who, 355 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: just like Robin Hood, lived in Sherwood Forest of all places, 356 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: and he wrote taunting letters from his office there, all 357 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: of which was fictional. Yeah. Uh. The Loodites were also quotable. 358 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: In one protest, the Leoodites were using giant sledgehammers to 359 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: break machines in Yorkshire. They named these hammers Great Enoch, 360 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 1: after Enoch Taylor, who ran the firm that made the 361 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: sledge hammers and also owned the machines that they were destroying. 362 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: They had a rallying cry of Enoch made them Enoch 363 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: will break them. And they also protested in dresses um 364 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: and called themselves general Lud's wives when they did this 365 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: just sort of an odd image of these men in 366 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: drag with giant hammers, chanting and destroying things. Well, and 367 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 1: all these things together kind of made it a protest 368 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: that had character, which I think is one of the 369 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: reasons that it has more staying power in people's minds 370 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: than some of the other machine breaking protests. A lot 371 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 1: of the Ludite, too evaded capture, were really deeply reluctant 372 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: to talk about it for years afterward because they feared punishment. 373 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: This may also have added to this air of mystery 374 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: about it. Although around the eighteen seventies, as many of 375 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,160 Speaker 1: the Ladites reached their very later years, some of them 376 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: did start start to tell their stories and revived some 377 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: of the Ladite lore. So today a Luddite wouldn't say 378 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 1: something along the lines of I don't want an iPhone 379 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,199 Speaker 1: more like and admittedly this is something of an Apple's 380 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: to Orange is comparison, uh they would make between Kodak, 381 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: which employed on forty thousand people, in Instagram, which employs 382 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: about a dozen, or the way newspapers have fallen in 383 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: the face of the Internet becoming so popular and accessible. Yeah, 384 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,679 Speaker 1: or just this morning, um, I saw an article that 385 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: was correlating the rise and capital expenses on things like 386 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: robots and technology and a drop in paying actual human 387 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: labor as a global trend having gone on since the 388 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties. That is the sort of thing that would 389 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: lead to a neo Luddite protest today, more so than 390 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: I don't want the latest operating, no new things. King 391 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: lad may rise again. So yes, that is the movement 392 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: different than people probably suspect in any way. Yes, definitely 393 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 1: different than the colloquial use of Luddite. Well, and I 394 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: think some people associate them with and this is completely wrong, 395 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: of course, the Amish. I think there was a I 396 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,679 Speaker 1: mean I've had people say that when I'm like, oh, 397 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: we can talk about the Luddites. Were they like the Amish? 398 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: Not at all? Really not real. We really didn't have 399 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 1: a problem with machines if the machines were used. Well, yeah, 400 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: do you want to take a moment to talk about 401 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: Audible dot Com? Yes? So. Audible dot Com is the 402 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: leading provider of downloadable digital audio books and spoken word entertainment. 403 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: Audible has more than one thousand titles to choose from 404 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 1: to be downloaded to your iPod or your m P 405 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,959 Speaker 1: three player. Go to audible podcast dot com slash history 406 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 1: to get a free audio book download of your choice 407 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: when you sign up today. And they have a title 408 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: that is completely relevant to our podcast today, which is 409 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 1: Charlotte Bronte Shirley and you two can get in on 410 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: the luddite information told in a fictional book. You can 411 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: hear all the parts that we did not read from, 412 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,360 Speaker 1: which is the vast majority of the book. Yeah. So 413 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: go to audible podcast dot com slash history and get 414 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: in on that deal. I think you also have listener 415 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: mail from I do. This is from Nathan. Nathan says, 416 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: hello again, History ladies. Like your podcast on the Oneida community. 417 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: I enjoyed listening to your show about the brook Farm community. 418 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: It seems to me that these Enlightenment and post Enlightenment 419 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: era experiments and communism fail because one their success hinged 420 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,959 Speaker 1: on new, unestablished ideas which invariably changed and to the 421 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 1: experiments began with the Enlightenment ideal, but the perfection of 422 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: man was an attainable goal, and that they were much 423 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: closer to attaining that goal than they were. It seems 424 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: to me that the only lasting successful communist ventures have 425 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: been monasteries. Whether Buddhist, Roman, Catholic, or Orthodox Christian. Monastic 426 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,719 Speaker 1: communities have succeeded kids one they are founded with an 427 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 1: ideology that has been established and generally does not change. 428 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: And two, the monk or none joins with the knowledge 429 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: that they are a long way from the perfection slash 430 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: Nirvana slash stainthood slash Theosis, and they have a lot 431 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: of work to do. As if you didn't have enough 432 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: podcast requests, it would be fabulous to hear a podcast 433 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 1: on Mount Athos, also known as the Holy Mountain. Sitting 434 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: on a peninsula in Greece, the mountain has been home 435 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: to twenty monasteries for over a thousand years. The monasteries 436 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,360 Speaker 1: house innumerable ancient artifacts and manuscripts which are only now 437 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: being discovered and cataloged. The mountain is off limits to women. 438 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: It has been protected by stars and emperors, and protected 439 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 1: since Ottumn times by the Sultan and even Hitler. All 440 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: enticing reasons to view an Athos podcast, don't you think so? First, 441 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 1: thanks to Nathan for sending that letter. We got several 442 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: letters after the Brook Farm episode from people who were saying, 443 00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: you know, I think monasteries are the only people who 444 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: made this work. We did. Like that was a trend 445 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: in our in our inbox, just kind of fascinating, and 446 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: I've kind of wondered, um, Like I had some personal 447 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: theories about that, about like the expectation joining a monastery 448 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: is deeply different from the expectation and joining a commune, 449 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: Like those two words conjure up completely different thoughts about 450 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: what life is going to be, like they do, and 451 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: I wonder if some of it isn't um And I'm 452 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: just shooting from the hip. You know, when you sign 453 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 1: into a life of service in a monastery or even 454 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 1: a convent um, it's you recognize that your goal is 455 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 1: that you will give service, Whereas when you go into 456 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: a commune like Brook Farm, a lot of those people 457 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,199 Speaker 1: their goal was that they would achieve happiness. Yeah, it 458 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: was a little bit more of a selfish motivation, even 459 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: if it was very well intended, and they were like, yes, 460 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,120 Speaker 1: we will work for the good of all of us 461 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: because that will make us all happy, versus we will 462 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: work for this thing that is bigger than us and 463 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: it will never come to you know, us in a 464 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: personal um benefit way. You know, they could certainly get 465 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: benefit from it and and feel very much at peace 466 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 1: and a sense of happiness, but that wasn't the goal 467 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: of it, whereas it was of something like Brooke Farm 468 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 1: right well. And it also reminded me of an idea 469 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 1: I had several years ago, and how I really wished 470 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: that there was like a secular monasticism, where like, if 471 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 1: somebody wanted to have a monastic life, there there was 472 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: a monastery that they could go to that that was 473 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: not tied to a particular religion. And I remember a 474 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: couple of times like trying to see if there really 475 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: was such a thing anywhere, And I wonder if that 476 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 1: actually would work, uh without some kind of like deep 477 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 1: seated history, right, would you just send up with a 478 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: bunch of hermits who would have a hard time working 479 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: together to make things go. I kind of think that 480 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: might be that might be a thing that would be 481 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: a challenge there. So thank you so much for sending 482 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,719 Speaker 1: that letter. If you would like to write to us, 483 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 1: you can. We're at History Podcast at Discovery dot com. 484 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: We're also on Facebook at facebook dot com slash History 485 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: class Stuff and on Twitter at mist in History. You 486 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,479 Speaker 1: can find our tumbler at mist in history dot tumbler 487 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: dot com, and we are also on Pinterest. If you 488 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: would like to read a little more about some of 489 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,199 Speaker 1: the context that lad up to the Luddite uprising, you 490 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: can come to our website and put the word Industrial 491 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 1: Revolution in the search bar. You will find the top 492 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 1: ten Industrial Revolution inventions. You can do all of that 493 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: and a whole lot more at our website, which is 494 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot com. For more on this and 495 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics, it has to works dot com. 496 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: Audible dot com is the leading provider of downloadable digital 497 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: audiobooks and spoken word entertainment. Audible has more than one 498 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: hundred thousand titles to choose from to be downloaded to 499 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: your iPod or MP three player. Go to audible podcast 500 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: dot com slash history to get a free audio book 501 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: download of your choice when you sign up today.