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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the latest edition of the Book of

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Speaker 1: Joke Podcasts with Me, Tom Verducci and my globe trotting

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Speaker 1: buddy Joe Madden. Back from Chicago. What a trip you had,

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Speaker 1: h Joe, you.

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Speaker 2: Were just talking about it. I went there to do

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Speaker 2: some charity golf events, three of them at actually Midloathing

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Speaker 2: in the first course beautiful. There was several tournament stops

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Speaker 2: their years. I think Nicholas won there one time and

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Speaker 2: then ruffled feathers and I'm ready to tee off, but

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Speaker 2: who just pulls up in the golf car right next

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Speaker 2: to me Ozzie Again. Ozzy lives on the course there somewhere.

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Speaker 2: I had a nice conversation with him. And then the

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Speaker 2: last day we played cog Hill and I guess if

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Speaker 2: Tiger went there a couple of years ago. Public course

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Speaker 2: magnificent and had a wonderful event a something called Club

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Speaker 2: four hundred. We drew over four hundred people for special Olympics.

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Speaker 2: I think we raised one hundred thousand bucks or so.

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Speaker 2: Really an interesting week and great restaurants new one chi

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Speaker 2: Chio Meo, a little Tian restaurant, next to Bavetts. I

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Speaker 2: think it's owned by Bavetts. Kind of an exclusive little

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Speaker 2: place outstanding, and I to keep going. But the last

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Speaker 2: one was the Aster Club. My buddy Johnny Vincent was

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Speaker 2: singing there and Wendy and I showed up and it

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Speaker 2: was wow. It's something cut right out of the fifties.

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Speaker 2: Apparently Sinatra had been there in the past. I guess

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Speaker 2: Jagger had sung there and the Beatles of all things.

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Speaker 2: It's a go downstairs. It's our deco abbywhere gorgeous like

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Speaker 2: a supper club. So it was really an interesting week. Oh.

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Speaker 1: I could see Joe Madden, the ultimate lounge lizard, sliding

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Speaker 1: into that environment and just completely digging it.

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Speaker 2: You're describing my entire life right. The lounge lizardries began

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Speaker 2: at bell Hops bar on a bar still on Altar Street,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's what twelfth, twelfth then Altar or

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Speaker 2: something like that. Yeah, but I've always been attracted to

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Speaker 2: that environment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you've perfected the craft over the years. By the way,

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Speaker 1: I hope you sold some books as well. If our

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Speaker 1: listeners are not familiar our book, which obviously this podcast

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Speaker 1: is based on the book of Joe you know, I

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Speaker 1: call this podcast the most interesting baseball podcast on the planet.

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Speaker 1: I think you can say the same thing about the book.

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Speaker 1: If you haven't picked up the Book of Joe Man,

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Speaker 1: what are you waiting for? I mean, it doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: if you're a fan of the Cubs, the Angels, the Rays,

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Speaker 1: just a fan of baseball or life in general. You're

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Speaker 1: going to find something really really interesting in that book.

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Speaker 1: So glad to see you out there selling some books.

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Speaker 2: Joe is it isn't the paperback out sooner now or

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Speaker 2: something like that? Also, I think that was coming soon.

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Speaker 2: We'd selld two hundred and fifty. I brought two hudred

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Speaker 2: and fifty books with me to that event the night.

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Speaker 2: It was really great and honestly getting a lot of

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Speaker 2: wonderful feedback. And again, it's not just the baseball book.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of life lessons. When we you and

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Speaker 2: I talked about doing it in the first place, it

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Speaker 2: wasn't just going to be Joey grew up on Eleventh Street.

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Speaker 2: It had to be a lot more than that. I

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Speaker 2: think we accomplished that, and I think the more it

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Speaker 2: gets out there and people gets in people's hands, they

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Speaker 2: do appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely and speaking of the book, a lot in the

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Speaker 1: book is about how the game has been changing over

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Speaker 1: the years, and along those lines, Joe, we need to

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Speaker 1: talk about the New York Yankees, because it's just been

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Speaker 1: fascinating what has happened to this team. And I especially

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Speaker 1: want to get into it with you from the manager's

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Speaker 1: perspective and dealing with media, dealing with negativity when you're

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Speaker 1: the manager. And I had an Yankees Red Sox game

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Speaker 1: on Fox over the weekend, and Aaron Moon made sure

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Speaker 1: he let us and other people in the media know

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Speaker 1: that he had a meeting after the game on Friday night.

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Speaker 1: Clearly Aaron Boone wanted this out there. This is after

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Speaker 1: a game on Friday night. I thought the Yankees had

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Speaker 1: looked really flat on the Friday night game. This is

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Speaker 1: after coming off a two and seven road trip. You're

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Speaker 1: back home, you got your rivals in a big house

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Speaker 1: at Yankee Stadium, and they were just flat, made some

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Speaker 1: careless mistakes defensive. They were out of the game early.

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Speaker 1: And Aaron decided to address his team after the game,

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Speaker 1: and he actually spoke about how he'd liked their approach

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Speaker 1: later in the game and it was something to build

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Speaker 1: on and he's telling them, you know, show up tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: remembering why you fell in love with this game in

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Speaker 1: the first place. So it wasn't you know, ranting and

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Speaker 1: raving and taking out anger on the team. But to me, Joe,

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Speaker 1: it was a sign that Aaron has taken so many

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Speaker 1: slings and arrows in New York. As you know with

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Speaker 1: the media, you know, losing streak is it sounds bigger.

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Speaker 1: Everything's amplified, right, And I think he wanted it out

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Speaker 1: there that I'm doing something about this team because he's

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Speaker 1: taking criticism among Yankee fans, mostly for being a little

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Speaker 1: too passive and not showing the kind of frustration that

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Speaker 1: the fans themselves are feeling. So I thought that was

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Speaker 1: interesting that he wanted out there that he had this meeting.

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Speaker 1: Of course, he had Garrett Cole his ace pitching the

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Speaker 1: next day. In my goodness, that's that's rule number one

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Speaker 1: when you hold the team meeting, right, check your rotation,

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Speaker 1: see's getting the ball. I think Cole comes out lays

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Speaker 1: an egg the next day and they lose that one

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Speaker 1: as well, so there was no effect to it. But

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Speaker 1: jo I'm curious your take now as a manager, maybe

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Speaker 1: specifically to Boom when you're in a losing streak like this,

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Speaker 1: the fans are so frustrated. We get it at it again.

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Speaker 1: In New York, you hear it over and over again.

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Speaker 1: And how sometimes maybe that can seep into the way

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Speaker 1: you run your team.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, First of all, the thing that just jumps out

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Speaker 2: to me is to praise publicly and criticize privately. Regardless.

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Speaker 2: Everybody wants a pound of flesh when things aren't going well.

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Speaker 2: And a lot of our fan bases grew up borderline

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Speaker 2: at least of the Lombardi era, and and a lot

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Speaker 2: of people have a football mentality and they want people

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Speaker 2: to be angry all the time. And for me, the

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Speaker 2: main component of being a great leaders to be consistent.

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Speaker 2: That's what discipline is. Discipline and consistency to mere synonymous terms.

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Speaker 2: So you're going to go through some bad moments and again,

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Speaker 2: if in fact I have to say some things to

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Speaker 2: a group, I'd prefer nobody know. But sometimes you know,

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Speaker 2: it does leak out in some way. But I understand

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Speaker 2: where Bohny was coming from because everything is amplified there.

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Speaker 2: I watch, I read every day and I kind of

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Speaker 2: understand that. So yes, part of it is was that

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Speaker 2: I agree with you to ameliorate the fan base, to

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Speaker 2: let them know I am doing something here. But then again,

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Speaker 2: which you have to understand, conversations like that rarely have

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Speaker 2: an impact. It's if you're bad as a baseball team.

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Speaker 2: If you're a five hundred or less baseball team, I

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Speaker 2: think you're going to become a six hundred percent sixty

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Speaker 2: percent baseball winning team just by having a meeting. That's

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Speaker 2: just a bad bad form. It happens gradually over time.

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Speaker 2: I would in those moments try to present a plan

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Speaker 2: to the group. In other words, like for me, you

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Speaker 2: try to pick up one game a week. If you have,

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Speaker 2: we've already talked about this, something to that effect. I'm

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Speaker 2: happy to hear that he was not punitive about it,

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Speaker 2: and he attempted to rationalize what they were or try

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Speaker 2: to motivate in a way. But when you have to

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Speaker 2: have a lot of team meetings, and again, some gms

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Speaker 2: want you to do that because they think you don't care.

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Speaker 2: If you don't, and it's not true. I prefer individual

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Speaker 2: conversations in a situation like that, I prefer talking to you.

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Speaker 2: I'm perceived to be the leaders of the team. For me,

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Speaker 2: it would be my lead Bulls, and I would ask them,

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Speaker 2: if they haven't already done it, to maybe for them

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Speaker 2: to have a players only meeting, because to me, that's

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Speaker 2: still the best one. The manager's meeting. Yeah, I've had

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Speaker 2: one during the season. We've talked about it. I was

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Speaker 2: I was kind of pissed off, and they knew about it,

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Speaker 2: and that one did work, But that was because I

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Speaker 2: rarely ever do things like that, and there is then

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Speaker 2: it becomes impactful. So yes, there's in a market like that.

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Speaker 2: He probably felt compelled to do something and let everybody

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Speaker 2: know that he was doing something. But for me, it

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Speaker 2: would be more individual. I prefer the team leaders having

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Speaker 2: that meeting. Peers, peer pressure, peer substance, sustenance, whatever is

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Speaker 2: more impactful, I believe, so I would I would go

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Speaker 2: in that direction. Final point just now, but maybe, like

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Speaker 2: I talked about this at the All Star break, I

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Speaker 2: like little mini spring trainings during the season. I used

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Speaker 2: to do that with the Race. I did it with

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Speaker 2: the Cubs and you go out and you work on

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Speaker 2: things you had worked done in spring training during the

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Speaker 2: long home stand. I know early work has become almost

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Speaker 2: mandatory these days, and it's a choreographed early work probably

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Speaker 2: part of it, or a lot of it is because

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Speaker 2: young players are coming up that really don't know how

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Speaker 2: to play the game. But they don't know how to

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Speaker 2: play the game because the game is not being taught.

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Speaker 2: The line changles are being taught. Spin's being taught. Base

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Speaker 2: running is not funning is not. Hitting behind a runner

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Speaker 2: is not hit and run is not. Stealing bases is

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Speaker 2: not I mean, and now all of a sudden, they're

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Speaker 2: becoming more important. This starts in the minor league. But

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Speaker 2: again I'm getting off track. If you have struggles during

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Speaker 2: the season, go back to your fundamentals, long home stand,

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Speaker 2: bring them on out. Let's review this stuff. And almost

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Speaker 2: one hundred percent of the time it works.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting because I agree mostly with what you said, Joe,

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Speaker 1: But I do think there are times when a manage

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Speaker 1: has to be realistic and grab his team's attention. And

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Speaker 1: the pat on the back is great. But sometimes, and

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Speaker 1: I'll go back to last year, Bob Melvin did this

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Speaker 1: with his Padres team late in the season. They did respond.

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Speaker 1: Tory Lavello had a meeting with his Diamondbacks players a

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, and Tory told me that it

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Speaker 1: was probably a seven on the LEVELO Richter scale, and

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Speaker 1: he said, I've never blown up like that. Just was

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Speaker 1: tired of watching his team really just I guess unfocused

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Speaker 1: might be a better word, or at least they just

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Speaker 1: were not on point the way they were for most

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Speaker 1: of the season, and he has a younger team out there.

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Speaker 1: I think, I do think there are some times and

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Speaker 1: obviously the more you do it, the less effect that's

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Speaker 1: going to have. But I do think there are some

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Speaker 1: times you got to tell your team. And this has

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with the fans, by the way, guys,

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Speaker 1: we got to pull together right now because the idea

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Speaker 1: that hey, let's trust the process. We can't control the result.

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Speaker 1: There's so much of that that goes on in sports

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Speaker 1: now that I don't have a problems. Sometimes are the

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Speaker 1: manager coming in and just grabbing you by the shirt collar,

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Speaker 1: and even if it's just an emotional kick in the

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Speaker 1: butt to say let's get it in gear, it's it's

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a wake up call. Is the

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Speaker 1: reason why, you know, managers and coaches sometimes lose their jobs.

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Speaker 1: They try to, you know, get the team going. I'd

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Speaker 1: rather have the manager take control and again grab a

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Speaker 1: team by the shirt collar. And again, you know have

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Speaker 1: to tell guys that are the worst in the world,

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Speaker 1: but just to express emergency.

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Speaker 2: Well yeah, and again I understand what you're saying. For me,

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Speaker 2: it's rare that those meetings do work. I've sat on

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Speaker 2: the floor too many times to listen to managers do

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Speaker 2: those things, and a lot of times the anger is

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Speaker 2: to benefit whom whomever's angry. Again, I did it with

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Speaker 2: the Rays in two thousand and eight. We've talked about that.

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Speaker 2: It's in the book. I have had individual meetings where

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Speaker 2: I've been you know, it's been kind of testy at

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Speaker 2: times too, But I like to try to stay ahead

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Speaker 2: of those moments. For instance, right before I was let

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Speaker 2: go with the actually I was planning on it with

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Speaker 2: the Eagels. I was already planning on like a fundamental week.

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Speaker 2: I was talking like I try to steut of the

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Speaker 2: way of my coaches, but sometimes I will interfere if

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Speaker 2: I thinks need to be interfered with. So I was

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Speaker 2: already planning on coming out with extra work, taking participate

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Speaker 2: in early hitting, any any kind of drills we're going

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Speaker 2: to do on the field. I was going to do

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Speaker 2: that with that group prior to I mean, honestly, it

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Speaker 2: was almost right up to the day that I was

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Speaker 2: let go. I like to be proactive in those areas

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Speaker 2: when all else fails. Maybe you have to, but I

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Speaker 2: really tried to stay ahead of that. It's like quality assurance.

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Speaker 2: You try to stay ahead of the nonsense the bad moments.

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Speaker 2: Can't do it all the time, but there's a feel

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Speaker 2: part of this that you know your team is not

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Speaker 2: getting out of this funk, and a variety of different

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Speaker 2: things can be done. So I choose not to have

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Speaker 2: the meeting because I know that I've sat in on

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Speaker 2: them and they sound good on paper, but I don't

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Speaker 2: think they're really impactful. And I prefer doing one on ones,

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Speaker 2: talking to groups, smaller groups individually, and then I think

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Speaker 2: I could get my point across and finally get them

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Speaker 2: on the field. Bring back fundumb mentals. I mean, it

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Speaker 2: really comes down to that, when you stink you're not

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Speaker 2: playing fundamental baseball.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let me say Aaron Boone, he could have the

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Speaker 1: most fire and brimstone meeting ever and it's not going

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Speaker 1: to change things with this Yankees team. I mean, just

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Speaker 1: look at the personnel here. You know it was a

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Speaker 1: flawed roster to begin with, and injuries have really put

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Speaker 1: them in a situation. And with their running out there

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Speaker 1: Jake Bauers, Greg Gallen, Ben Roartvett, I mean nothing against

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Speaker 1: those guys, but they're not your front line players, so

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Speaker 1: they've gone far down to the depth chart. They're just short.

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Speaker 1: I thought they came in Joe with a flawed roster

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Speaker 1: in a couple of ways. First of all, Houston exposed

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Speaker 1: them in the ALCS last year. They completely ate them up,

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Speaker 1: especially with breaking balls. They threw the Yankees forty percent

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Speaker 1: breaking balls. The Yankees ran back the same roster and

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Speaker 1: mostly a year older. When you think about guys like

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Speaker 1: Rizzo and Stanton and Lemayhew, you know, Donaldson, you know

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Speaker 1: it just and the game pivoted to a younger game

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Speaker 1: with these new rules that now are revaluing athleticism, base running,

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Speaker 1: putting the ball in play even on the ground. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I know people don't want to hit the ball in

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Speaker 1: the ground, but sometimes there's nothing wrong with it, especially

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Speaker 1: when you look up. And now they can't send three

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Speaker 1: guys on the right side of the field if you're

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Speaker 1: a left handed hitter. The Yankees are playing an outdated game.

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Speaker 1: This is a team that wants to swing with launch angle,

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Speaker 1: get the ball in the air. They think strikeouts are okay.

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Speaker 1: It's why they are not a good rally team at all.

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Speaker 1: They're terrible with runners in scoring position. They lack left

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Speaker 1: handed hitting, which should never happen when your home games

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Speaker 1: are in Yankee Stadium. So they began to me Joe

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Speaker 1: with a flawed, older team that does not run the bases.

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Speaker 1: It's the worst base running team in baseball. The White Sox,

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Speaker 1: Yankees and Mets are the three oldest teams in baseball,

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Speaker 1: and they look like it. And you look at the

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Speaker 1: teams that have jumped up this year. If they're young,

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Speaker 1: they're athletic, they can defend with range, and they can

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Speaker 1: run the basis. I'm talking about Cincinnati, Baltimore, Tampa Bay, Arizona,

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Speaker 1: on and on and on. And the Yankees are playing

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Speaker 1: right now an outdated game. So I didn't see this coming.

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Speaker 1: I'm not smart enough to tell you that I didn't

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Speaker 1: think the bottom would fall out the way that it has.

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Speaker 1: They're looking at right now in eight game losing streak

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Speaker 1: the first time in almost three decades. But this was

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Speaker 1: a flawed roster that got exposed in the ALCS last

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Speaker 1: year and more so this year. So that is not

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Speaker 1: on the manager, not at all.

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Speaker 2: And you've convinced me, I'm bringing my bell bottoms back.

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Speaker 2: Get into close with the white lapels, the wider ties. Also,

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Speaker 2: real baseball's back. It's always cyclical. You just described the

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Speaker 2: launch angle, the three true outcome game as being almost obsolete.

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Speaker 1: I love that.

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Speaker 2: I hope it is obsolete. The game needs to be

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Speaker 2: played in its entirety. The game needs to be taught

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Speaker 2: on the minor league level. It needs players there, need

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Speaker 2: to spend a little bit more time there and understand

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Speaker 2: exactly what's going on. You want to be able to

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Speaker 2: get to the big leagues and have sustained success just

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Speaker 2: this moment. It's one of these brief moments where you're

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Speaker 2: really good and then you're not so again, even like

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Speaker 2: groups like cincin Night Baltimore. Yes, I love all of

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Speaker 2: that and I would love to see more of that,

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Speaker 2: And you're right, it is a Unfortunately, it's a copycat

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Speaker 2: situation throughout the industry. For me, if I'm running an

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Speaker 2: organization right now, I really it's the perfect time to

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Speaker 2: try to get out there and create this unique method

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Speaker 2: that only you employ. Want everybody else to copy. It's

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Speaker 2: something that I had implored with the Angels. I really

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Speaker 2: thought we had an opportunity to get out front with

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Speaker 2: all this. I don't understand why groups don't want to

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Speaker 2: get out front. They always want to follow. Baltimore's kind

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Speaker 2: of gotten out front, like you said, since an Eddie's

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Speaker 2: kind of gotten out front, and with him, they've gotten

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Speaker 2: out front by doing tried and true. And of course

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Speaker 2: you're going to also incorporate new with old and then

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Speaker 2: talk about this. It's not old school, it's not new school.

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Speaker 2: It's in school. You're always learning, but to not incorporate

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Speaker 2: in and and employ the past and just try to

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Speaker 2: develop new methods that you think are going to be

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Speaker 2: sustainable not good. I think extremism in either direction is

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Speaker 2: a bad method. There's always got to be a balance

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Speaker 2: to be struck. And the teams that you described that

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Speaker 2: are doing really well are pretty much I think in

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Speaker 2: creating the balance that's necessary.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Joe, we're going to take a quick break, but

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Speaker 1: I want to follow up on that. It's an important thought.

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Speaker 1: When you mentioned that word balance, because we are going

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Speaker 1: to talk about analytics, okay, and every time you mentioned

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Speaker 1: that word people think you have to jump on one

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Speaker 1: side of the fence or the other. That's not the case, folks,

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Speaker 1: And as it pertains to the Yankees, it's a really

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Speaker 1: really important point. We'll be right back, Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the Book of Joe podcast.

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Speaker 2: Joe.

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Speaker 1: You probably saw some of the comments from a former

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Speaker 1: Yankees minor leaguer by the name of Ben Ruda. He

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Speaker 1: was on the Foul Territory podcast and then went on

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Speaker 1: x formerly known as Twitter to mention about some of

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Speaker 1: the methodologies and philosophies in the New York Yankees minor

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Speaker 1: league system as it relates to analytics. And I think

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Speaker 1: again it's really important to understand here. And the Yankees

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Speaker 1: have really really leaned heavily on analytics, There's no question

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Speaker 1: about it. They would tell you that themselves. But it's

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Speaker 1: really important here to understand that we're talking about a balance.

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Speaker 1: Of course, everybody loves analytics. You can't have them or

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Speaker 1: you can't have a team without them, and people want them.

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Speaker 1: The question is the deployment of analytics to use it

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Speaker 1: as an evaluation tool or are you deciding how your

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Speaker 1: players and your manager should be playing baseball by analytics.

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Speaker 1: That's the separator for me. So just to start out here,

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Speaker 1: this guy Ben Ruda, he was released by the Yankees.

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Speaker 1: He hooked on with the Padres plit a year and

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Speaker 1: their system was released. There no longer in professional baseball,

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Speaker 1: but he talked about how the Yankees system was so

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Speaker 1: dependent on analytics. They would play games in spring training

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Speaker 1: talking about the minor leaguers where it was the pitchers

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Speaker 1: against the hitters, and so it his offense against the pitchers,

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Speaker 1: and you got a point as a hitter if you

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Speaker 1: hit the ball ninety five miles an hour plus. And

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Speaker 1: if you were a pitcher, you got a point. There's

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Speaker 1: no runs here. You got a point if you struck

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Speaker 1: out the batter. That's it. It had nothing to do

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Speaker 1: with actually playing baseball. It was based on hitting the

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Speaker 1: ball ninety five plus or getting a punch out on

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Speaker 1: the mound. So normal baseball strategy moving a runner overs,

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Speaker 1: for instance, did not matter. That gives you one brief

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Speaker 1: window into how they're emphasizing analytics. But as he said,

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Speaker 1: i'll quote here, this is from Twitter. I do believe

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Speaker 1: there's a place for analytics. It needs to be a

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Speaker 1: healthy mix. It's not a knock on the coaches. They

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Speaker 1: have they were doing exactly what they were hired to do.

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Speaker 1: The strategy in organization like this is just dumb. Just

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Speaker 1: have analytics and teach baseball, have resources and voices for

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Speaker 1: players to fall back on in both departments. Is that hard?

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Speaker 1: And then he went on to say New York is

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Speaker 1: a tough market. Fans and media. Analytics are fine. But

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Speaker 1: when you have a bad product and it's obvious and

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Speaker 1: it gets defended by constantly telling you it's not as

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Speaker 1: bad as it looks because so and so analytics is

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Speaker 1: actually really good, this is how a fan base gets frustrated.

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Speaker 1: Your thoughts on that, Joe interesting.

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Speaker 2: I mean, my first thought is that a minor league player,

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Speaker 2: if you get that much time platform to view his opinions,

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Speaker 2: and again that's all part of how information is disseminated today,

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Speaker 2: would be is that, Yeah, I heard the same thing

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Speaker 2: about the Angel minor league system before I had gotten there,

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Speaker 2: that they didn't even work on based on They did

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Speaker 2: not even work on funting, They just they didn't work

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Speaker 2: on those things. It's really the game has evolved and

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Speaker 2: had to evolve, and I think it's making our comeback now.

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Speaker 2: But when you just rely on one thing only technology,

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Speaker 2: and the people speak as though they know things based

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Speaker 2: on information that they receive. It's never it's never practical,

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Speaker 2: it's never been accumulated. It's never based on experience or wisdom.

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Speaker 2: It's just like here, look at this, read this, and

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Speaker 2: then we're going to try to get our guys to

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Speaker 2: do this. There's no there's no knowledge involved in that.

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Speaker 2: There's none. And then when speak people begin to speak

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Speaker 2: as though there are authorities on different subjects regarding pitching

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Speaker 2: or hitting based on a printout tech a method that's

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Speaker 2: just described via cameras and data accumulation that bothers me.

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Speaker 2: There's no there's no room in this room for actual

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Speaker 2: wisdom and experience and eyeballs that have seen this over time. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I've I was looking at some of my work the

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Speaker 2: other day from the late eighties and mid nineties. That's

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Speaker 2: all analytics. All my work was analytical. The difference now

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Speaker 2: is that you could get more of it, and you

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Speaker 2: need a computer to put it all together and try

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Speaker 2: to call it down. But so much of this information

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Speaker 2: is not really useful in the game or to the player.

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Speaker 2: It sounds good, it looks good, it's sexy, but what

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Speaker 2: we need in the game is our nuggets. We don't

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Speaker 2: need vast reams of information. It needs to be called

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Speaker 2: down to the point that it's useful. I hate to

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Speaker 2: bother you with this, but I'm playing golf a lot now,

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Speaker 2: and I've learned that, Gosh, when I carry more than

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Speaker 2: one thought with what I'm trying to do, I stink.

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Speaker 2: And when you get out of your own your internal

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Speaker 2: body and you get out there and actually play the game,

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Speaker 2: you play it a lot better. Players cannot carry all

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Speaker 2: of these things, they cannot. Coaching staffs to a degree can.

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Speaker 2: But I think it's been over romanticized at the point

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Speaker 2: where analytics has such a great impact on the game.

430
00:22:04,838 --> 00:22:07,398
Speaker 2: If that's the case, why is everybody why are there

431
00:22:07,438 --> 00:22:09,358
Speaker 2: so many teams in trouble, and why do everybody have

432
00:22:09,358 --> 00:22:12,318
Speaker 2: to go through a rebuilding a couple of years. If

433
00:22:12,358 --> 00:22:15,998
Speaker 2: this stuff is so glamorous and romantic and glorious balanced,

434
00:22:16,678 --> 00:22:20,678
Speaker 2: you need to have people that understand and can teach

435
00:22:21,038 --> 00:22:24,158
Speaker 2: tried and true methods of the game. You need other

436
00:22:24,238 --> 00:22:27,518
Speaker 2: folks coming in that could accumulate this information and data

437
00:22:27,918 --> 00:22:29,958
Speaker 2: do that and then give it to the people that

438
00:22:30,038 --> 00:22:32,838
Speaker 2: are the teachers. I don't like the idea of the

439
00:22:32,878 --> 00:22:36,758
Speaker 2: accumulators coming on in, the presenters coming on in and

440
00:22:36,798 --> 00:22:40,678
Speaker 2: acting as teachers. I don't like that quite frankly. I

441
00:22:40,798 --> 00:22:42,638
Speaker 2: like having them. I want their stuff, and I go

442
00:22:42,718 --> 00:22:44,878
Speaker 2: to them all the time, and I ask questions, and

443
00:22:44,918 --> 00:22:47,558
Speaker 2: I've asked questions for years, even like when a pitcher

444
00:22:48,238 --> 00:22:50,838
Speaker 2: back with the Rais, if somebody was off, I would ask,

445
00:22:51,198 --> 00:22:53,278
Speaker 2: could you do some work and see if his arm

446
00:22:53,318 --> 00:22:55,838
Speaker 2: angle has dropped? Just to click because from the sidelines

447
00:22:55,838 --> 00:22:57,718
Speaker 2: it looks to me that his arms a little bit

448
00:22:57,758 --> 00:23:00,038
Speaker 2: lower than it had been. As an example, that to

449
00:23:00,078 --> 00:23:03,878
Speaker 2: me is pertinent stuff. I've talked about Joe Peralta, Eric

450
00:23:03,958 --> 00:23:06,558
Speaker 2: the Andander figured out when joepe Rolta through a first pitch,

451
00:23:06,598 --> 00:23:10,878
Speaker 2: breaking ball strike batting average against them was all about

452
00:23:10,918 --> 00:23:14,238
Speaker 2: one hundred or one twenty something for rightings and lefties.

453
00:23:14,478 --> 00:23:19,158
Speaker 2: That's really pertinent analytical information. So there's a balance that

454
00:23:19,238 --> 00:23:24,078
Speaker 2: needs to be had. I want baseball eyeballs with experience time,

455
00:23:24,198 --> 00:23:26,758
Speaker 2: and then I want the new stuff coming in. But

456
00:23:27,038 --> 00:23:28,438
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, you can't have this

457
00:23:28,598 --> 00:23:31,798
Speaker 2: conflict of presentation. You cannot. It's got to come from

458
00:23:31,798 --> 00:23:34,158
Speaker 2: one voice. It has to be cold down, it has

459
00:23:34,198 --> 00:23:39,918
Speaker 2: to be Nuggets. Final point. The primary I think duty

460
00:23:39,918 --> 00:23:43,838
Speaker 2: and objective and where data and information and analytics shines

461
00:23:43,958 --> 00:23:47,718
Speaker 2: is acquisitionally, and nobody even talks about that. Everybody has

462
00:23:47,758 --> 00:23:51,038
Speaker 2: been kind of taught to believe that analytics has a

463
00:23:51,078 --> 00:23:53,598
Speaker 2: great part in winning the game on a nightly basis,

464
00:23:53,918 --> 00:23:58,678
Speaker 2: and that it's almost bulletproof. Analytics are pretty much based

465
00:23:58,718 --> 00:24:03,438
Speaker 2: on organizational biases. Who's ever putting together this analytical team.

466
00:24:03,478 --> 00:24:06,838
Speaker 2: They have their biases. It's not pure, it's what that

467
00:24:06,878 --> 00:24:09,358
Speaker 2: group thinks, and then they create these cocktails with more

468
00:24:09,358 --> 00:24:11,558
Speaker 2: way to one area, less way to another area, and

469
00:24:11,598 --> 00:24:14,558
Speaker 2: they get kind of what they're looking for. So that's

470
00:24:14,558 --> 00:24:16,078
Speaker 2: really what it is. That in the beginning, I thought

471
00:24:16,078 --> 00:24:18,678
Speaker 2: it was like pure. I thought analytical little information was pure.

472
00:24:18,998 --> 00:24:21,398
Speaker 2: It was infallible, it has to be true. When I

473
00:24:21,478 --> 00:24:23,838
Speaker 2: began with the Brays and I found that that is

474
00:24:23,878 --> 00:24:28,678
Speaker 2: not true. Balance, brother, real baseball people doing real baseball things.

475
00:24:28,958 --> 00:24:31,518
Speaker 2: Analytical people doing their thing. But at the end of

476
00:24:31,558 --> 00:24:34,878
Speaker 2: the day, I want information, give it to my guys, coaches,

477
00:24:34,958 --> 00:24:37,638
Speaker 2: and I want them to give it to the team

478
00:24:37,758 --> 00:24:40,598
Speaker 2: and not presenters. Wow, that's a long answer.

479
00:24:40,958 --> 00:24:44,358
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you're right, and they are presenting first of all.

480
00:24:44,598 --> 00:24:47,118
Speaker 1: You made me think of something about getting back to

481
00:24:47,158 --> 00:24:50,078
Speaker 1: real baseball. And I think one of the happily unintended

482
00:24:50,118 --> 00:24:53,078
Speaker 1: consequences of the pitch timer is you don't see as

483
00:24:53,118 --> 00:24:56,758
Speaker 1: many catchers now going to that wristband going through the

484
00:24:56,758 --> 00:25:00,078
Speaker 1: scouting report for every single pitch. Right. You actually have

485
00:25:00,158 --> 00:25:02,678
Speaker 1: to think now and run a game behind the plate

486
00:25:02,878 --> 00:25:04,958
Speaker 1: based on what you're saying from the hitter and from

487
00:25:04,958 --> 00:25:07,518
Speaker 1: the pitcher. I love that, and obviously you love the

488
00:25:07,518 --> 00:25:10,438
Speaker 1: fact that the game is faster. Second of all presenters,

489
00:25:10,798 --> 00:25:12,558
Speaker 1: I was told by a Yankee there was a game

490
00:25:12,598 --> 00:25:15,118
Speaker 1: this year they're facing I think it was Kintana of

491
00:25:15,158 --> 00:25:18,038
Speaker 1: the Mets, and they were telling the hitters they all

492
00:25:18,078 --> 00:25:20,078
Speaker 1: in the lineup should go try to hit the ball

493
00:25:20,198 --> 00:25:23,238
Speaker 1: in the air to the poll side. The Yankees don't

494
00:25:23,278 --> 00:25:26,438
Speaker 1: even have that kind of a lineup other than Aaron Judge,

495
00:25:26,638 --> 00:25:28,238
Speaker 1: who do you want in that lineup pulling the ball

496
00:25:28,278 --> 00:25:31,278
Speaker 1: in the air right now? So these things are being

497
00:25:31,318 --> 00:25:34,598
Speaker 1: presented directly to the players. As far as the analytics

498
00:25:34,638 --> 00:25:37,478
Speaker 1: they're chasing in the minor leagues, Ben Ruda again, this

499
00:25:37,558 --> 00:25:41,238
Speaker 1: former Yankee minor leaguer mentioned they're driven by something called

500
00:25:41,398 --> 00:25:45,598
Speaker 1: hit effect ops that's the holy grail in the Yankees

501
00:25:45,638 --> 00:25:49,318
Speaker 1: minor league system, and it's based on exit velocity and

502
00:25:49,438 --> 00:25:52,718
Speaker 1: launch angle. And his beef with this is that as

503
00:25:52,758 --> 00:25:57,238
Speaker 1: a hitter, it doesn't dock anybody for striking out, which

504
00:25:57,518 --> 00:26:00,958
Speaker 1: is kind of really amazing when you think about it,

505
00:26:00,958 --> 00:26:04,278
Speaker 1: because what do they want from pitchers strikeouts? But yet

506
00:26:04,278 --> 00:26:06,118
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter when it comes to the hitters. That

507
00:26:06,198 --> 00:26:09,638
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense in terms of consistency. So his

508
00:26:09,758 --> 00:26:13,838
Speaker 1: point was, when you're chasing this hit effect OPS metric,

509
00:26:14,558 --> 00:26:18,358
Speaker 1: what you're doing is you're creating the same, or searching

510
00:26:18,398 --> 00:26:22,038
Speaker 1: for it, the same hitter over and over again. And

511
00:26:22,238 --> 00:26:25,958
Speaker 1: that's a problem. You better have diversity in your lineup.

512
00:26:26,158 --> 00:26:29,638
Speaker 1: And you can't turn Luisa Rise into a poll side

513
00:26:29,918 --> 00:26:32,518
Speaker 1: fly ball hitter. Why would you want to? And by

514
00:26:32,558 --> 00:26:34,678
Speaker 1: the way, Luisa Rise is one of the best hitters

515
00:26:34,678 --> 00:26:37,398
Speaker 1: in the game. Have you looked at his exit velocity?

516
00:26:37,798 --> 00:26:41,478
Speaker 1: It stinks it's below average. I want him on my team.

517
00:26:41,758 --> 00:26:43,518
Speaker 1: He's on base almost half the time.

518
00:26:44,038 --> 00:26:48,918
Speaker 2: My case. You just said the word same. Everybody wants

519
00:26:49,838 --> 00:26:53,078
Speaker 2: the same thing that everybody else has. There's nobody wanting

520
00:26:53,158 --> 00:26:56,238
Speaker 2: to go out there uniquely and build their own little

521
00:26:56,358 --> 00:26:59,238
Speaker 2: arc to a certain extent, Baltimore has like we're talked about,

522
00:26:59,278 --> 00:27:01,438
Speaker 2: although they had to go through this long rebuild and

523
00:27:01,518 --> 00:27:05,198
Speaker 2: the same thing with Cincinnati, but it appears as though they,

524
00:27:05,398 --> 00:27:08,238
Speaker 2: for me anyway, had the right theories regarding the kind

525
00:27:08,278 --> 00:27:10,398
Speaker 2: of athlete we're looking for to play a complete game.

526
00:27:10,638 --> 00:27:13,998
Speaker 2: But really, I'm really annoyed by that word same and

527
00:27:14,038 --> 00:27:16,358
Speaker 2: it's it's become. And that's why I think you see

528
00:27:16,358 --> 00:27:19,358
Speaker 2: a lot of this mediocrity in the game because everybody's

529
00:27:19,358 --> 00:27:22,398
Speaker 2: looking for the same things. I don't have privy to conversations,

530
00:27:22,438 --> 00:27:25,918
Speaker 2: but I would be curious when one GM calls another GM.

531
00:27:26,198 --> 00:27:28,358
Speaker 2: They all have the same things in mind. They're always

532
00:27:28,358 --> 00:27:30,918
Speaker 2: looking for the same player. They're looking for the same

533
00:27:31,038 --> 00:27:36,678
Speaker 2: set of metrics, same set of analytical information. They're looking

534
00:27:36,718 --> 00:27:39,878
Speaker 2: for the same thing all the time, and nobody's looking

535
00:27:39,918 --> 00:27:45,878
Speaker 2: for the outlier rise. Yeah, I mean that, you're right,

536
00:27:45,918 --> 00:27:48,718
Speaker 2: and I was. I was a David Fletcher free and

537
00:27:48,758 --> 00:27:50,998
Speaker 2: now Fletch has been mired in the minor leagues. And

538
00:27:51,078 --> 00:27:54,518
Speaker 2: Fletch for a long time really had some good numbers offensively,

539
00:27:54,558 --> 00:27:58,318
Speaker 2: but horrible exit velossities, et cetera. And eventually it came

540
00:27:58,358 --> 00:28:00,638
Speaker 2: back and they were just pitching them in a certain ways,

541
00:28:00,678 --> 00:28:02,358
Speaker 2: hitting pop ups to the right side, and that needed

542
00:28:02,358 --> 00:28:04,678
Speaker 2: to change. That. Don't want to get news that method,

543
00:28:04,718 --> 00:28:07,838
Speaker 2: but Fletch is a really good baseball player. Nobody likes

544
00:28:07,838 --> 00:28:10,598
Speaker 2: really good baseball players that can't hit homers. So I'm

545
00:28:10,638 --> 00:28:15,238
Speaker 2: hoping that that thing comes back. But I'm sough the

546
00:28:15,278 --> 00:28:17,318
Speaker 2: groups that want to go out there and build their

547
00:28:17,358 --> 00:28:21,038
Speaker 2: own method and get away from this sameness, that to

548
00:28:21,158 --> 00:28:24,398
Speaker 2: me would be very interesting, and that's what the fans

549
00:28:24,438 --> 00:28:26,798
Speaker 2: want to see. If you're in a different city, you

550
00:28:26,838 --> 00:28:28,998
Speaker 2: want your I would want my team to be different.

551
00:28:29,038 --> 00:28:31,038
Speaker 2: I want my team to be known for something that

552
00:28:31,118 --> 00:28:33,398
Speaker 2: maybe most of the other teams are not known for.

553
00:28:34,038 --> 00:28:35,558
Speaker 2: I want a method of play, I want a style

554
00:28:35,598 --> 00:28:37,878
Speaker 2: of play. I want a certain kind of player want

555
00:28:38,638 --> 00:28:40,518
Speaker 2: I just want to be able to identify with a

556
00:28:40,598 --> 00:28:43,278
Speaker 2: real gritty group that plays just if they play hard,

557
00:28:43,798 --> 00:28:46,958
Speaker 2: I could identify with that. But that's not as important

558
00:28:46,998 --> 00:28:47,638
Speaker 2: as it had.

559
00:28:47,518 --> 00:28:50,958
Speaker 1: Been amen to that. You know, maybe I'm dating myself,

560
00:28:50,958 --> 00:28:53,518
Speaker 1: but I do think the glory days of baseball in

561
00:28:53,598 --> 00:28:56,398
Speaker 1: terms of the aesthetics of the game, or the nineteen eighties,

562
00:28:56,998 --> 00:29:01,118
Speaker 1: where the more diversity that you have, I'm talking about

563
00:29:01,358 --> 00:29:05,198
Speaker 1: diversity of style, diversity of philosophy, the more interesting the

564
00:29:05,238 --> 00:29:07,238
Speaker 1: game is. So you can have a World Series where

565
00:29:07,238 --> 00:29:12,878
Speaker 1: you have Harvey's Wallbangers against Whitey's Speedsters, right Cardinals hitting

566
00:29:12,918 --> 00:29:16,358
Speaker 1: the fewest home runs, the Brewers hitting the most. There

567
00:29:16,358 --> 00:29:19,198
Speaker 1: were different paths to win the World Series, not one,

568
00:29:19,518 --> 00:29:22,518
Speaker 1: and that's what you want as a fan, different styles.

569
00:29:22,918 --> 00:29:25,638
Speaker 1: And just one more time, getting back to what how

570
00:29:25,678 --> 00:29:29,038
Speaker 1: you can use analytics to drive decision making. I'm gonna

571
00:29:29,118 --> 00:29:32,838
Speaker 1: use Josh Donaldson as an example because the Yankees traded

572
00:29:32,878 --> 00:29:36,118
Speaker 1: for Donaldson in great part because his exit velocity his

573
00:29:36,198 --> 00:29:38,278
Speaker 1: year with the Twins was actually higher than it was

574
00:29:38,318 --> 00:29:40,798
Speaker 1: when he won the MVP in twenty fifteen. So they

575
00:29:40,838 --> 00:29:43,158
Speaker 1: saw signs he's still hitting the ball hard, nothing wrong

576
00:29:43,198 --> 00:29:45,598
Speaker 1: with that, but they keep running him out there, and

577
00:29:45,638 --> 00:29:49,198
Speaker 1: they kept insisting he was still an effective hitter because,

578
00:29:49,278 --> 00:29:52,558
Speaker 1: for instance, this year, his exit velocity is ninety two

579
00:29:52,598 --> 00:29:55,638
Speaker 1: point two. That's really good, right when he hits the ball,

580
00:29:55,798 --> 00:29:59,198
Speaker 1: hits the ball hard, But Josh Donaldson's hitting a buck

581
00:29:59,238 --> 00:30:02,838
Speaker 1: forty two. You can't sell me on exit velocity. And

582
00:30:02,878 --> 00:30:05,718
Speaker 1: if you look at his bat speed and he's thirty

583
00:30:05,758 --> 00:30:08,278
Speaker 1: seven years old, this is not a knock on just Allinson.

584
00:30:08,398 --> 00:30:11,998
Speaker 1: It happens as you age against pitches ninety five and above.

585
00:30:12,798 --> 00:30:18,278
Speaker 1: He's hitting forty eight one hit against fastballs ninety five

586
00:30:18,318 --> 00:30:21,518
Speaker 1: and above. So how much does this exit velocity mean

587
00:30:21,518 --> 00:30:23,918
Speaker 1: at that At this point, he's had two years with

588
00:30:23,958 --> 00:30:27,638
Speaker 1: the Yankees where he has the third lowest batting average

589
00:30:27,958 --> 00:30:31,358
Speaker 1: by any Yankee in history whoever got more than six

590
00:30:31,438 --> 00:30:35,158
Speaker 1: hundred played appearances. So don't tell me about his exit

591
00:30:35,238 --> 00:30:38,278
Speaker 1: velocity if you're hitting two oh seven over six hundred

592
00:30:38,278 --> 00:30:42,118
Speaker 1: played appearances. But yet that is going on in the game.

593
00:30:42,198 --> 00:30:44,638
Speaker 1: And I think the Yankees right now, to me, Joe,

594
00:30:45,158 --> 00:30:48,198
Speaker 1: this is a wake up call. They can dismiss Ben

595
00:30:48,278 --> 00:30:51,678
Speaker 1: Ruda as some disgruntled minor leaguer all they want, but

596
00:30:51,798 --> 00:30:53,958
Speaker 1: I think they have to look in the mirror and

597
00:30:54,078 --> 00:30:58,438
Speaker 1: look at their systemic processes and say we're broken, because

598
00:30:58,518 --> 00:31:02,638
Speaker 1: right now their offense is broken. You mentioned the Orioles.

599
00:31:02,958 --> 00:31:05,238
Speaker 1: You know, I love the way they play baseball. They

600
00:31:05,278 --> 00:31:08,318
Speaker 1: do put a premium on athleticism. They do have younger players.

601
00:31:08,358 --> 00:31:10,918
Speaker 1: By the way. They may bring up Jackson Holiday nineteen

602
00:31:10,998 --> 00:31:14,078
Speaker 1: years old. He's just crushing it in double A. That's

603
00:31:14,118 --> 00:31:17,718
Speaker 1: another guy with a middle of the order, athletic player

604
00:31:17,878 --> 00:31:20,998
Speaker 1: hits from the left side, runs the bases, defends well,

605
00:31:21,358 --> 00:31:23,038
Speaker 1: I mean, give me a whole team of those guys,

606
00:31:23,198 --> 00:31:25,918
Speaker 1: I'll find a place to play them. So I think

607
00:31:25,958 --> 00:31:29,558
Speaker 1: the Yankees have to look at their processes and say,

608
00:31:29,638 --> 00:31:33,278
Speaker 1: right now, offensively, it's not working and it's broken.

609
00:31:33,718 --> 00:31:37,678
Speaker 2: I capture one thing you just said regarding Donaldson and analytics. Okay,

610
00:31:37,918 --> 00:31:40,118
Speaker 2: ninety five plus, he can't hit it. That, to me

611
00:31:40,598 --> 00:31:45,078
Speaker 2: is where analytics shines in regards to giving me a

612
00:31:45,078 --> 00:31:48,718
Speaker 2: game plan for my pitcher and catcher that night. I mean,

613
00:31:48,958 --> 00:31:51,718
Speaker 2: when you know that and the guy can your pitcher

614
00:31:51,718 --> 00:31:54,078
Speaker 2: can do that, and you hang a slider and he

615
00:31:54,118 --> 00:31:55,598
Speaker 2: hits it out, I want to That's why I want

616
00:31:55,598 --> 00:31:57,558
Speaker 2: to throw up and dougout. You know, this is the

617
00:31:57,638 --> 00:32:00,758
Speaker 2: kind of stuff that stands up all the time. If

618
00:32:00,798 --> 00:32:03,798
Speaker 2: he hits that ninety five plus, it's not going to

619
00:32:03,798 --> 00:32:06,198
Speaker 2: be the kind of contact that's gonna hurt you. So

620
00:32:06,238 --> 00:32:10,638
Speaker 2: that's a perfect example of that, I believe. So, yes

621
00:32:10,758 --> 00:32:13,998
Speaker 2: with the Orioles, Yes with athleticism. Go back to the

622
00:32:14,078 --> 00:32:16,358
Speaker 2: Kansas City Royals Baseball Academy. Go out there and just

623
00:32:16,398 --> 00:32:19,038
Speaker 2: get a bunch of athletes take them down to spring

624
00:32:19,118 --> 00:32:22,558
Speaker 2: training and instructional league and just teach them how to

625
00:32:22,558 --> 00:32:25,078
Speaker 2: play the game. And you may I know at that

626
00:32:25,118 --> 00:32:28,838
Speaker 2: time it didn't necessarily work as well, but I like

627
00:32:28,918 --> 00:32:30,958
Speaker 2: that concept. I think it's kind of like happening in

628
00:32:30,998 --> 00:32:34,078
Speaker 2: the Dominican Republic. All these academies down there. They go

629
00:32:34,118 --> 00:32:35,678
Speaker 2: out there, they grab a bunch of kids and they

630
00:32:35,678 --> 00:32:38,118
Speaker 2: put him in there, and eventually you're gonna find maybe three,

631
00:32:38,158 --> 00:32:40,758
Speaker 2: four or five, maybe six guys that can impact your

632
00:32:40,838 --> 00:32:44,238
Speaker 2: major league organization. I would start right there all the time,

633
00:32:44,518 --> 00:32:48,958
Speaker 2: and don't run away from the baseball player. Really good scouts,

634
00:32:48,998 --> 00:32:52,398
Speaker 2: I believe, really good instructors, I believe recognize just a

635
00:32:52,398 --> 00:32:56,158
Speaker 2: good old fashioned baseball player where maybe it does it

636
00:32:56,278 --> 00:32:58,318
Speaker 2: not the fastest runner, maybe he can't hit the ball

637
00:32:58,318 --> 00:33:02,358
Speaker 2: the farthest, maybe he's just an average defender, but the

638
00:33:02,438 --> 00:33:04,678
Speaker 2: guy knows how to win, I knows how to play

639
00:33:04,678 --> 00:33:08,958
Speaker 2: the game. An example, James Edmunds, Jimmy Edmonds. I had

640
00:33:08,998 --> 00:33:12,358
Speaker 2: Jimmy in the minor leagues. Jimmy on a sixty yard dash.

641
00:33:12,358 --> 00:33:14,798
Speaker 2: He's not going to blow you up if you watch

642
00:33:14,918 --> 00:33:18,118
Speaker 2: him as a kid hitting line drive hitter. A lot

643
00:33:18,118 --> 00:33:20,478
Speaker 2: of it was opposite field, and I love that. I

644
00:33:20,478 --> 00:33:22,878
Speaker 2: love when a young hitter drives the opposite field gap

645
00:33:22,918 --> 00:33:25,398
Speaker 2: to me. That lights me up immediately because we could

646
00:33:25,398 --> 00:33:28,198
Speaker 2: teach him how to pull. The one thing Jimmy did

647
00:33:28,198 --> 00:33:30,798
Speaker 2: have was a great arm, not a good arm, a

648
00:33:30,998 --> 00:33:34,358
Speaker 2: great arm. So I'm watching this guy playing one night

649
00:33:34,598 --> 00:33:37,918
Speaker 2: in Palm Springs. He's in the right field and he's

650
00:33:37,958 --> 00:33:40,118
Speaker 2: just mediocre at this point, and all of a sudden,

651
00:33:40,238 --> 00:33:42,518
Speaker 2: balls hit him in the right field and I'm there,

652
00:33:42,558 --> 00:33:45,598
Speaker 2: I'm watching from the dugout area, and he threw a

653
00:33:45,838 --> 00:33:48,638
Speaker 2: missile to third I had never seen it before. You know,

654
00:33:48,758 --> 00:33:50,998
Speaker 2: guys like Jimmy, sometimes it takes one you don't really

655
00:33:51,038 --> 00:33:53,598
Speaker 2: pay attention. He did that. I called in the next day.

656
00:33:53,598 --> 00:33:57,118
Speaker 2: I wanted to see him in center field. And then again,

657
00:33:57,198 --> 00:34:00,038
Speaker 2: not being the fastest, you will never see Jimmy Edmons'

658
00:34:00,078 --> 00:34:03,198
Speaker 2: first step, which I learned as we went through this process.

659
00:34:03,238 --> 00:34:06,478
Speaker 2: So the fastest guy never see his first step. The

660
00:34:06,518 --> 00:34:10,038
Speaker 2: most incredible routes online from the moment the ball is

661
00:34:10,118 --> 00:34:12,718
Speaker 2: hit right and I guess you might be able to

662
00:34:12,758 --> 00:34:15,998
Speaker 2: measure that now metrically whatever. But Jimmy Edmunds was not

663
00:34:16,158 --> 00:34:19,438
Speaker 2: this killer looking athlete, but He's one of the best

664
00:34:19,438 --> 00:34:22,198
Speaker 2: baseball players I've ever had. And on top of that,

665
00:34:22,278 --> 00:34:25,838
Speaker 2: great base runner, great slider, he would slide to avoid

666
00:34:25,878 --> 00:34:29,198
Speaker 2: tags before that was in vogue. But he just knew how.

667
00:34:29,518 --> 00:34:31,598
Speaker 2: So all these things to me. As a good scout

668
00:34:31,598 --> 00:34:34,958
Speaker 2: with real eyes, you see these things. So Jimmy Edmonds,

669
00:34:35,158 --> 00:34:36,718
Speaker 2: I'm here to tell you a lot of people think

670
00:34:36,718 --> 00:34:38,838
Speaker 2: it was a really great player. He was, but when

671
00:34:38,838 --> 00:34:43,078
Speaker 2: he began, you could have easily said no on this

672
00:34:43,118 --> 00:34:46,678
Speaker 2: particular guy. He's going to wash out. Didn't like his attitude,

673
00:34:47,038 --> 00:34:50,038
Speaker 2: didn't really know where to playim below average to average

674
00:34:50,038 --> 00:34:52,398
Speaker 2: speed at best. Then he turns into one of the

675
00:34:52,398 --> 00:34:56,358
Speaker 2: best outfielders we've ever seen with power. With power, the

676
00:34:56,398 --> 00:35:00,038
Speaker 2: power came later and this guy struck out a lot.

677
00:35:00,838 --> 00:35:03,038
Speaker 2: But he also moved the ball when it was necessary.

678
00:35:03,078 --> 00:35:05,638
Speaker 2: But a high fastball, well, he can hit as a

679
00:35:05,718 --> 00:35:08,078
Speaker 2: left hand here he can hit a high fastball. Going

680
00:35:08,118 --> 00:35:10,838
Speaker 2: on and on. But that's an example of a baseball

681
00:35:10,878 --> 00:35:13,518
Speaker 2: player that didn't necessarily grade out well as a youngster.

682
00:35:13,878 --> 00:35:16,478
Speaker 1: Great story, and by the way, Jimmy Edmonds probably deserves

683
00:35:16,518 --> 00:35:18,678
Speaker 1: another well, he does deserve another look at Hall of

684
00:35:18,678 --> 00:35:21,318
Speaker 1: Fame consideration. He was a one and done. Ballot guy

685
00:35:22,158 --> 00:35:25,238
Speaker 1: sit down sometime with his numbers and chew on that

686
00:35:25,318 --> 00:35:28,598
Speaker 1: for a while. Okay, we talked about the Yankees. The

687
00:35:28,678 --> 00:35:32,158
Speaker 1: question is where do they go from here? The Baltimore

688
00:35:32,158 --> 00:35:35,518
Speaker 1: Orioles are absolutely loaded for years. When you think about

689
00:35:35,558 --> 00:35:41,598
Speaker 1: Gunnar Henderson, Natalie Rushman, Jackson Holliday, those are three franchise players,

690
00:35:41,678 --> 00:35:45,278
Speaker 1: all twenty five and younger. This team is only going

691
00:35:45,318 --> 00:35:47,758
Speaker 1: to get better. They're not going away. The Yankees are

692
00:35:47,838 --> 00:35:50,198
Speaker 1: up against it. Where are they going and will it

693
00:35:50,278 --> 00:35:53,438
Speaker 1: cost Aaron Boone his job? We'll talk about that right

694
00:35:53,438 --> 00:36:07,758
Speaker 1: after this, Okay, Joe. The Yankees had a rough season,

695
00:36:07,758 --> 00:36:10,158
Speaker 1: there's no question about it. And actually, if you look

696
00:36:10,198 --> 00:36:13,358
Speaker 1: at the Yankees last well, going back to the middle

697
00:36:13,358 --> 00:36:17,078
Speaker 1: of last year, two hundred and eleven games, they're one

698
00:36:17,158 --> 00:36:20,518
Speaker 1: oh one and one ten. They've been mediocre. Not just

699
00:36:20,598 --> 00:36:23,158
Speaker 1: for a month, not just since the All Star break,

700
00:36:23,278 --> 00:36:25,398
Speaker 1: not just since Aaron Judge went out with the toe

701
00:36:25,478 --> 00:36:29,838
Speaker 1: injury for two months. No, they've been mediocre for a

702
00:36:29,998 --> 00:36:33,758
Speaker 1: season and a half. Again, there's something systemic going on here.

703
00:36:34,358 --> 00:36:37,238
Speaker 1: So my question is where do they go from here?

704
00:36:37,358 --> 00:36:41,118
Speaker 1: Does this cost Aaron Boone his job? Listen, I think again,

705
00:36:41,558 --> 00:36:44,718
Speaker 1: I think this is not a manager issue. But in

706
00:36:44,758 --> 00:36:47,638
Speaker 1: the world we live in, especially in New York, and

707
00:36:47,718 --> 00:36:51,078
Speaker 1: you've got the highest payroll in the American League and

708
00:36:51,158 --> 00:36:54,518
Speaker 1: you are literally playing out the string, you know, to

709
00:36:54,758 --> 00:36:57,998
Speaker 1: houses at Yankee Stadium that are seeing a non competitive team,

710
00:36:58,358 --> 00:37:00,598
Speaker 1: it's tough to bring the manager back. It takes a

711
00:37:00,638 --> 00:37:02,838
Speaker 1: lot of faith that this is still the right guy.

712
00:37:02,958 --> 00:37:06,558
Speaker 1: So again, does it change things? I don't know, But Joe,

713
00:37:06,558 --> 00:37:08,718
Speaker 1: you know how this game operates, and especially in a

714
00:37:08,758 --> 00:37:09,638
Speaker 1: place like New York.

715
00:37:10,038 --> 00:37:12,078
Speaker 2: For me, you don't get rid of Boonie. Boone has

716
00:37:12,118 --> 00:37:15,038
Speaker 2: done a great job. There's this is not on Boonie

717
00:37:15,078 --> 00:37:16,958
Speaker 2: at all, not even a little bit. And again, this

718
00:37:17,078 --> 00:37:19,718
Speaker 2: is what I've been talking about all along, and I like,

719
00:37:19,798 --> 00:37:22,078
Speaker 2: I love Brian Cashman, but this is more front office

720
00:37:22,078 --> 00:37:24,318
Speaker 2: than than on field as far as I can see.

721
00:37:24,398 --> 00:37:27,198
Speaker 2: And I know that, I quite frankly know that it's

722
00:37:27,678 --> 00:37:30,078
Speaker 2: this is where field personal get too much of the

723
00:37:30,118 --> 00:37:33,318
Speaker 2: blame and the acquisitional process does not. It's all about

724
00:37:33,318 --> 00:37:35,598
Speaker 2: the acquisitional process. Who do you get in there, who

725
00:37:35,638 --> 00:37:37,358
Speaker 2: do you bring in, who you bring in the spring training?

726
00:37:37,678 --> 00:37:40,638
Speaker 2: What kind of player do you get And because after

727
00:37:40,678 --> 00:37:43,598
Speaker 2: all the field personnel have nothing to do with the

728
00:37:43,638 --> 00:37:47,198
Speaker 2: acquisitional process nothing. You know. I was always asked in

729
00:37:47,238 --> 00:37:50,158
Speaker 2: certain situations, but the way it's working today, there was

730
00:37:50,198 --> 00:37:52,078
Speaker 2: a time when the manager had a lot of juice

731
00:37:52,398 --> 00:37:55,118
Speaker 2: regarding that, but he has zero juice right now. So

732
00:37:55,198 --> 00:37:59,798
Speaker 2: this is this is more front office generated, not more.

733
00:37:59,798 --> 00:38:03,438
Speaker 2: It is front office generated than field generated. But Boonie's

734
00:38:03,438 --> 00:38:06,878
Speaker 2: record over the last several years has been outstanding. The

735
00:38:06,878 --> 00:38:08,478
Speaker 2: team has gotten deep into the season. They have not

736
00:38:08,518 --> 00:38:10,638
Speaker 2: wonder World Series. I get it, it's not easy to

737
00:38:10,678 --> 00:38:12,638
Speaker 2: do that. But he's done a great job. He's a

738
00:38:12,638 --> 00:38:16,518
Speaker 2: great communicator. I think the players like him a lot

739
00:38:16,598 --> 00:38:19,118
Speaker 2: from what I understand, and I can see why as

740
00:38:19,118 --> 00:38:21,278
Speaker 2: a broadcasters to come in my office all the time

741
00:38:21,358 --> 00:38:25,038
Speaker 2: and we had wonderful conversations and he's really sharp. I'm

742
00:38:25,078 --> 00:38:27,398
Speaker 2: a big Boonie fan, So to lay it on him,

743
00:38:27,438 --> 00:38:31,558
Speaker 2: I think is wrong quite frankly. And going forward, yeah,

744
00:38:32,078 --> 00:38:34,758
Speaker 2: this is a situation where they the Yankees have to

745
00:38:34,838 --> 00:38:37,198
Speaker 2: maybe like I hate these word pivot because I don't

746
00:38:37,238 --> 00:38:39,078
Speaker 2: like that word, but they have to do something differently,

747
00:38:39,598 --> 00:38:44,278
Speaker 2: and they may have to go against their years of history.

748
00:38:44,318 --> 00:38:46,318
Speaker 2: They might have to loosen up a bit quite Frankly

749
00:38:46,878 --> 00:38:48,918
Speaker 2: and go out there and just play with a little

750
00:38:48,918 --> 00:38:51,358
Speaker 2: bit more zeal and zest. And in order to do that,

751
00:38:51,358 --> 00:38:54,758
Speaker 2: you got to get the right guys to do that. Again,

752
00:38:54,998 --> 00:38:57,758
Speaker 2: they rely too much on attempting to bludget everybody else,

753
00:38:58,278 --> 00:39:01,278
Speaker 2: and it's hard to bludget like you're seeing in today's game.

754
00:39:02,038 --> 00:39:04,478
Speaker 2: I want those that can do the three run Homer. Absolutely,

755
00:39:04,518 --> 00:39:07,198
Speaker 2: I want early Weaver guys, but I also want rock

756
00:39:07,278 --> 00:39:09,398
Speaker 2: out there, and I want kurk Flood and sorry, I'm

757
00:39:09,438 --> 00:39:11,198
Speaker 2: going to my old Cardinal dates, but I want guys

758
00:39:11,198 --> 00:39:14,838
Speaker 2: that could run and play defense too. So it's a again,

759
00:39:14,878 --> 00:39:17,838
Speaker 2: here comes the word balance, So don't lait on Boonie.

760
00:39:18,678 --> 00:39:21,878
Speaker 2: That's my opinion. I'm absolutely one hundred percent believe that

761
00:39:22,238 --> 00:39:24,758
Speaker 2: it's about the acquisitional process and that's what got them

762
00:39:24,798 --> 00:39:25,558
Speaker 2: in trouble this year.

763
00:39:25,798 --> 00:39:29,198
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent agreed, Joe, And listen, Brian Cashman

764
00:39:29,238 --> 00:39:31,078
Speaker 1: has done a great job here, So I think it's

765
00:39:31,118 --> 00:39:34,838
Speaker 1: more about maybe tweaking philosophies and what you're looking for

766
00:39:34,958 --> 00:39:37,118
Speaker 1: to put a team together. And he's already started that

767
00:39:37,238 --> 00:39:39,478
Speaker 1: a little bit because he did for the first time

768
00:39:39,518 --> 00:39:41,798
Speaker 1: since he's been gaming the Yankees, he fired a coach

769
00:39:41,878 --> 00:39:45,238
Speaker 1: during the season Dylan Lawson. Now, you can say that

770
00:39:45,318 --> 00:39:47,638
Speaker 1: has very little effect, and if you look at the numbers,

771
00:39:47,678 --> 00:39:50,598
Speaker 1: it's had no effect. But I think it was sort

772
00:39:50,638 --> 00:39:53,318
Speaker 1: of an admission that it's not working right. And a

773
00:39:53,358 --> 00:39:56,238
Speaker 1: lot of the instructors in the Yankees minor league system

774
00:39:56,678 --> 00:40:00,118
Speaker 1: were connected to Dylan Lawson and some of his philosophies.

775
00:40:00,838 --> 00:40:03,758
Speaker 1: So I think that will be revisited after the season

776
00:40:03,958 --> 00:40:05,838
Speaker 1: see if there's changes there. But I think you hit

777
00:40:05,878 --> 00:40:08,038
Speaker 1: on something that's super important here, and that's the type

778
00:40:08,078 --> 00:40:10,878
Speaker 1: of players the Yankees are seeking. So if you want

779
00:40:10,918 --> 00:40:13,038
Speaker 1: to try to keep trying to hit on guys like

780
00:40:13,078 --> 00:40:16,118
Speaker 1: a Franchis Cordero or a Jake Bauers, guys who are

781
00:40:16,118 --> 00:40:18,198
Speaker 1: going to strike out trying to lift the ball in

782
00:40:18,238 --> 00:40:20,838
Speaker 1: the air, maybe you should be looking for other type

783
00:40:20,878 --> 00:40:23,438
Speaker 1: of players as well, to have more of a balance

784
00:40:23,438 --> 00:40:25,198
Speaker 1: so that when there's a run around second base and

785
00:40:25,238 --> 00:40:27,238
Speaker 1: two outs, you know this guy's gonna put the ball

786
00:40:27,238 --> 00:40:29,678
Speaker 1: in play and maybe get him. In next couple of weeks,

787
00:40:29,678 --> 00:40:32,038
Speaker 1: they're going to give a run to Everson Pereira, twenty

788
00:40:32,038 --> 00:40:34,878
Speaker 1: two year old outfielder. Great job by the Yankees bringing

789
00:40:34,918 --> 00:40:36,958
Speaker 1: him up at this point, in the season. Give him

790
00:40:36,998 --> 00:40:38,758
Speaker 1: a run. Start him every day. I don't care if

791
00:40:38,758 --> 00:40:40,438
Speaker 1: he goes oh for eight. Tell the kid he's in

792
00:40:40,478 --> 00:40:43,238
Speaker 1: the lineup. Because right now, with Harrison Bader being a

793
00:40:43,238 --> 00:40:46,678
Speaker 1: free agent, the Yankees essentially have one outfielder, Aaron Judge.

794
00:40:47,118 --> 00:40:49,078
Speaker 1: They need to find a couple of outfielders. They need

795
00:40:49,118 --> 00:40:50,958
Speaker 1: to find a couple of starting pitchers. They need to

796
00:40:50,998 --> 00:40:53,958
Speaker 1: get younger. As we talked about so eversin Pereira, You'll

797
00:40:53,958 --> 00:40:56,398
Speaker 1: see him get some run. Austin Wells is a catcher

798
00:40:56,438 --> 00:41:00,238
Speaker 1: that they like. Hasn't killed it offensively, but he controls

799
00:41:00,238 --> 00:41:02,558
Speaker 1: the strike zone pretty well. You know, give him a chance.

800
00:41:02,558 --> 00:41:04,798
Speaker 1: I'm sure he'll be up soon. So maybe they can

801
00:41:04,838 --> 00:41:06,878
Speaker 1: find out some things here in the next couple of weeks.

802
00:41:06,918 --> 00:41:09,758
Speaker 1: And if you're Aired Boone, let's face it, Joey, Aaron

803
00:41:09,798 --> 00:41:12,558
Speaker 1: Boone is still being judged here. Maybe the playoffs are

804
00:41:12,558 --> 00:41:14,598
Speaker 1: out of the question, but how this team plays out

805
00:41:14,598 --> 00:41:16,278
Speaker 1: the rest of the season will go a long way,

806
00:41:16,318 --> 00:41:18,078
Speaker 1: maybe in terms of how he comes back. And as

807
00:41:18,078 --> 00:41:20,638
Speaker 1: you mentioned, he connects well with young players. If that's

808
00:41:20,638 --> 00:41:22,758
Speaker 1: where you're going, maybe he's still the right guy for you.

809
00:41:23,078 --> 00:41:25,958
Speaker 2: I think he is. And if you touched on something there.

810
00:41:25,958 --> 00:41:28,878
Speaker 2: It's like the hiring process for coaches. They're going to

811
00:41:28,998 --> 00:41:31,438
Speaker 2: the you know, the drive line groups, and they're going

812
00:41:31,478 --> 00:41:35,318
Speaker 2: to guys that are all about tech and not about

813
00:41:35,358 --> 00:41:39,078
Speaker 2: experience and wisdom in the game. Again balance, Yes, I

814
00:41:39,118 --> 00:41:41,118
Speaker 2: want these guys, I would want them to be part

815
00:41:41,118 --> 00:41:43,278
Speaker 2: of the staff, but I still want you know, the

816
00:41:43,358 --> 00:41:45,638
Speaker 2: Larry Bows of the world and my dougout are on

817
00:41:45,758 --> 00:41:48,918
Speaker 2: the line for me or somewhere within the process of

818
00:41:48,918 --> 00:41:52,998
Speaker 2: the organization. You need that. Again, this is another component

819
00:41:53,038 --> 00:41:57,038
Speaker 2: of balance that I think has been absolutely ignored. When

820
00:41:57,038 --> 00:42:00,238
Speaker 2: I was coming up, you always had the experienced coach around,

821
00:42:00,278 --> 00:42:02,918
Speaker 2: whether it was Preston Gomez, whether it was Don Zimmer,

822
00:42:02,958 --> 00:42:05,998
Speaker 2: whether it was Dave Garce, whether it was John McNamara.

823
00:42:06,238 --> 00:42:08,278
Speaker 2: I had all these, Bob Cleary, I had all these

824
00:42:08,278 --> 00:42:11,238
Speaker 2: guys at my disposal coming up as a young coach.

825
00:42:11,758 --> 00:42:16,078
Speaker 2: The game was passed down to me from these guys, okay,

826
00:42:16,638 --> 00:42:22,198
Speaker 2: without their input and their wisdom and quite frankly, their toughness,

827
00:42:22,438 --> 00:42:24,958
Speaker 2: and the fact that I didn't get a worm fuzzy

828
00:42:24,958 --> 00:42:26,718
Speaker 2: from them. Only did if I if they thought I

829
00:42:26,798 --> 00:42:29,598
Speaker 2: did something well. I didn't get a trophy for not

830
00:42:29,678 --> 00:42:33,398
Speaker 2: being good at what I did, so that's missing. I

831
00:42:33,558 --> 00:42:36,998
Speaker 2: would love to see a resurgence in the hiring of

832
00:42:37,758 --> 00:42:42,118
Speaker 2: former players, coaches, et cetera. That can coach, that can teach,

833
00:42:42,638 --> 00:42:47,198
Speaker 2: there to augment and teach coaches young coaches. I don't

834
00:42:47,238 --> 00:42:51,158
Speaker 2: think that's being done. I'm running a minor league system. Yes,

835
00:42:51,238 --> 00:42:53,238
Speaker 2: I want to hire a lot of young fire. I

836
00:42:53,318 --> 00:42:56,678
Speaker 2: was one of those man. I was an absolute grunt.

837
00:42:56,798 --> 00:43:00,238
Speaker 2: I threw I took out the machines that rolled up

838
00:43:00,238 --> 00:43:02,798
Speaker 2: the cords, that pulled out the tarps, you do all

839
00:43:02,838 --> 00:43:05,598
Speaker 2: those things. But I needed Bob Aloo. There. I needed

840
00:43:05,638 --> 00:43:08,918
Speaker 2: Johnny McNamara. There. I needed Dave Garcia. There, I needed

841
00:43:08,958 --> 00:43:12,318
Speaker 2: Marcel Latchman. There. This cookie roster. I could go on

842
00:43:12,398 --> 00:43:16,118
Speaker 2: and on. These guys today don't have that benefit. Who's

843
00:43:16,158 --> 00:43:18,958
Speaker 2: passing the game along to the young coaches and the

844
00:43:19,038 --> 00:43:21,318
Speaker 2: minor leagues and even in the major leagues and thus

845
00:43:21,558 --> 00:43:25,238
Speaker 2: passing on the game itself. Scouts. Same thing I used

846
00:43:25,238 --> 00:43:27,718
Speaker 2: to love when the scouts came into town, Like whether

847
00:43:27,718 --> 00:43:29,958
Speaker 2: it was the Gene Thompson's of the world, you know,

848
00:43:30,038 --> 00:43:33,918
Speaker 2: the Thornton Lee's of the world, Eddie Howsen, all the guys,

849
00:43:34,598 --> 00:43:37,358
Speaker 2: all the dudes, Scottie Reed, the guys that taught me.

850
00:43:38,158 --> 00:43:40,958
Speaker 2: I wanted to talk to them. I'm running the instruction

851
00:43:41,038 --> 00:43:42,998
Speaker 2: league team. I'm on the field, I'm the coordinator. But

852
00:43:43,398 --> 00:43:47,558
Speaker 2: they're standing by the fans. I'm over there asking them questions. Right,

853
00:43:47,638 --> 00:43:50,558
Speaker 2: and these kids, these new coaches, don't have that opportunity.

854
00:43:50,798 --> 00:43:53,878
Speaker 2: So I'd like to see a resurgence of that, hiring

855
00:43:53,958 --> 00:43:57,478
Speaker 2: real baseball coaches to run your minor league system, to

856
00:43:57,798 --> 00:44:00,038
Speaker 2: be a part of your major league team. Don Zimmer

857
00:44:00,078 --> 00:44:03,758
Speaker 2: coming into my office in Tampa Bay the next day

858
00:44:03,998 --> 00:44:07,038
Speaker 2: after a game with the bag of Coney Island hot Dogs,

859
00:44:07,038 --> 00:44:09,878
Speaker 2: sit down, smirk at me, and we would recap the

860
00:44:10,518 --> 00:44:14,198
Speaker 2: day before his game. Wow. How beneficial is that to me?

861
00:44:14,238 --> 00:44:17,238
Speaker 2: I mean, that doesn't happen anymore, and it needs to.

862
00:44:17,798 --> 00:44:21,238
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're driving at something that it's always been important

863
00:44:21,238 --> 00:44:26,318
Speaker 1: to me, and that is the difference between knowledge and wisdom, right.

864
00:44:26,638 --> 00:44:28,558
Speaker 1: I mean, I do I want guys in my staff

865
00:44:28,598 --> 00:44:32,998
Speaker 1: who have certificates from drive Line. Absolutely, There's no question

866
00:44:33,078 --> 00:44:35,078
Speaker 1: about it. We've learned so much in these pitching and

867
00:44:35,118 --> 00:44:38,158
Speaker 1: hitting labs. I want to take advantage of that. But

868
00:44:38,238 --> 00:44:41,918
Speaker 1: I also want here's that word again, the balance of

869
00:44:42,038 --> 00:44:46,358
Speaker 1: people who are teachers. Right, Teaching is a skill. Just

870
00:44:46,398 --> 00:44:50,438
Speaker 1: because you have a certificate in some area of expertise

871
00:44:51,078 --> 00:44:55,318
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you are a great teacher. That certifies

872
00:44:55,358 --> 00:44:59,278
Speaker 1: that you have learned this particular area of expertise. But

873
00:44:59,478 --> 00:45:03,678
Speaker 1: connecting with people and actually passing on that knowledge, that's

874
00:45:03,718 --> 00:45:06,478
Speaker 1: where experience and wisdom comes in. That's what I want.

875
00:45:06,478 --> 00:45:08,758
Speaker 1: Look at the Atlanta Braves. They're the best team in baseball.

876
00:45:08,838 --> 00:45:13,238
Speaker 1: Look at their coaching staff, Ron Washington, Walt Weiss, salf Asano,

877
00:45:13,558 --> 00:45:16,998
Speaker 1: Rick Kranitz, years and years and years in the game.

878
00:45:17,198 --> 00:45:19,998
Speaker 1: Why are people not copying the best team in baseball

879
00:45:20,038 --> 00:45:22,798
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Braves when it comes to putting a staff together.

880
00:45:22,878 --> 00:45:26,918
Speaker 1: By the way, their manager baseball lifer mid to late sixties,

881
00:45:27,638 --> 00:45:30,318
Speaker 1: Brian Snicker. So you've got all that going now. In

882
00:45:30,358 --> 00:45:34,078
Speaker 1: the Yankees credit here. They did bring in Sean Casey

883
00:45:34,078 --> 00:45:37,118
Speaker 1: as their hitting coach midseason. Cas has not certainly been

884
00:45:37,238 --> 00:45:39,958
Speaker 1: to drive line, and you know, he's a former player

885
00:45:40,038 --> 00:45:42,478
Speaker 1: career three hundred hitter, has been at a game a

886
00:45:42,478 --> 00:45:44,358
Speaker 1: long time, so that was a bit of a risk.

887
00:45:44,518 --> 00:45:46,798
Speaker 1: But you look at their front office. They brought back

888
00:45:46,798 --> 00:45:50,918
Speaker 1: Brian Sabian, Omar Meanaya, they are acknowledging they want a

889
00:45:50,958 --> 00:45:53,158
Speaker 1: better balance here. But I think it will come to

890
00:45:53,398 --> 00:45:56,958
Speaker 1: their emphasis on how the information is delivered to players.

891
00:45:56,998 --> 00:46:00,958
Speaker 1: Who's driving the bust when it comes to instruction and acquisition.

892
00:46:01,198 --> 00:46:04,878
Speaker 1: Getting that input is great, but then how much is

893
00:46:04,918 --> 00:46:07,718
Speaker 1: that valued? How much is that driving decision making? And

894
00:46:07,718 --> 00:46:09,998
Speaker 1: that's why I say the Yankees are at a crossroads

895
00:46:10,038 --> 00:46:11,838
Speaker 1: in terms of their philosophies.

896
00:46:12,278 --> 00:46:15,158
Speaker 2: What are you looking for? You're looking for control over

897
00:46:15,198 --> 00:46:17,518
Speaker 2: your people? Are you looking for leadership from your people?

898
00:46:18,518 --> 00:46:21,998
Speaker 2: When you want to control your people, that's self explanatory.

899
00:46:22,038 --> 00:46:24,558
Speaker 2: You want them to take what you give them and

900
00:46:24,638 --> 00:46:28,158
Speaker 2: have them implemented. I'm always about that. I'm always about

901
00:46:28,158 --> 00:46:32,998
Speaker 2: following organizational policy, but I'm also about we're talking about individualism,

902
00:46:33,078 --> 00:46:36,998
Speaker 2: coaches that can bring their wisdom to bear within the group.

903
00:46:37,038 --> 00:46:39,798
Speaker 2: So you're looking for control are you looking for leadership?

904
00:46:40,078 --> 00:46:45,278
Speaker 2: And leadership really requires the fact that you permit and

905
00:46:45,398 --> 00:46:50,358
Speaker 2: allow these guys to do their thing out there. And

906
00:46:51,398 --> 00:46:54,718
Speaker 2: I think that's an immediate difference between how this young

907
00:46:55,078 --> 00:46:58,438
Speaker 2: coaches are being hired today. You want a controllable asset.

908
00:46:58,758 --> 00:47:01,158
Speaker 2: You don't want one out there that you can empower

909
00:47:01,518 --> 00:47:04,478
Speaker 2: and let loose and bring to bear what he knows,

910
00:47:04,918 --> 00:47:08,438
Speaker 2: and also bring the organizational message to the player. I

911
00:47:08,478 --> 00:47:10,638
Speaker 2: see that as a stark difference, and I believe this

912
00:47:10,718 --> 00:47:13,878
Speaker 2: is true. The coaches from drive Line are very controllable.

913
00:47:14,478 --> 00:47:17,718
Speaker 2: Coaches that have played for the last twenty years or

914
00:47:18,038 --> 00:47:20,078
Speaker 2: coach for the last twenty twenty five years. They're going

915
00:47:20,158 --> 00:47:22,558
Speaker 2: to come with some opinions, man, and they're gonna have

916
00:47:22,598 --> 00:47:24,958
Speaker 2: to be convinced what you want to do is the

917
00:47:25,038 --> 00:47:27,358
Speaker 2: right thing to do. A great line from Colin Powell

918
00:47:27,358 --> 00:47:29,638
Speaker 2: that I try to incorporate all the time when he

919
00:47:29,678 --> 00:47:33,358
Speaker 2: talked about his loyalty to the president. I give him

920
00:47:33,718 --> 00:47:36,798
Speaker 2: my best advice something like that, and then I give

921
00:47:36,958 --> 00:47:40,918
Speaker 2: my strongest loyalty. In other words, when after we discuss this,

922
00:47:41,558 --> 00:47:43,118
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you straight up if I agree

923
00:47:43,158 --> 00:47:46,078
Speaker 2: with you or not absolutely between the eyeballs. If I

924
00:47:46,078 --> 00:47:48,198
Speaker 2: don't agreement it so I don't agree. But after we

925
00:47:48,238 --> 00:47:50,518
Speaker 2: sit in the room, we have this discussion or argument,

926
00:47:50,558 --> 00:47:52,438
Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it, and I like arguments

927
00:47:52,838 --> 00:47:55,038
Speaker 2: about the right way to do this. Once we leave

928
00:47:55,078 --> 00:47:58,878
Speaker 2: this room, this is what we're doing. We have a consensus,

929
00:47:59,198 --> 00:48:01,318
Speaker 2: this is how it's going to be done. But I

930
00:48:01,358 --> 00:48:04,438
Speaker 2: don't think that that's I know it's not the method anymore.

931
00:48:04,678 --> 00:48:07,518
Speaker 2: Nobody wants that argument. They don't want the fellow that's

932
00:48:07,518 --> 00:48:11,558
Speaker 2: going to be there, the outlier that may challenge the

933
00:48:11,638 --> 00:48:14,718
Speaker 2: methods being employed. I think that's a mistake. So you

934
00:48:14,838 --> 00:48:17,798
Speaker 2: don't want just a controllable asset when it comes to

935
00:48:17,878 --> 00:48:21,358
Speaker 2: an employee. You want one that you can empower and

936
00:48:21,638 --> 00:48:28,158
Speaker 2: then receive the full benefit of his ingenuity, his imagination,

937
00:48:28,718 --> 00:48:32,758
Speaker 2: his experience that is not sought after anymore. That is

938
00:48:33,078 --> 00:48:36,478
Speaker 2: an absolutely true what I'm telling you right now, And

939
00:48:36,078 --> 00:48:37,758
Speaker 2: I think that needs to come back.

940
00:48:38,078 --> 00:48:40,718
Speaker 1: Yeah, we keep coming back to the same word, right, balance,

941
00:48:40,758 --> 00:48:44,358
Speaker 1: And I think that's super important. And I'm assuming, Joe,

942
00:48:44,358 --> 00:48:47,118
Speaker 1: you're a fan of the band the Eagles. Yeah, right.

943
00:48:47,478 --> 00:48:50,238
Speaker 1: At one point they had two of the three biggest

944
00:48:50,278 --> 00:48:53,078
Speaker 1: selling albums of all time. I don't know if that's

945
00:48:53,078 --> 00:48:57,078
Speaker 1: still true, but that's pretty amazing, right. And I think

946
00:48:57,078 --> 00:49:00,558
Speaker 1: about a guy, an original member who died recently, Randy Meisner.

947
00:49:01,238 --> 00:49:06,838
Speaker 1: He was from Nebraska, interview introvert guy, just an incredible voice.

948
00:49:07,398 --> 00:49:10,478
Speaker 1: He started actually he came from the band Poco and

949
00:49:10,518 --> 00:49:12,958
Speaker 1: then was part of the Eagles. Their first gig. By

950
00:49:12,958 --> 00:49:18,118
Speaker 1: the way, was at Disneyland nineteen seventy one. So anyway,

951
00:49:18,158 --> 00:49:21,798
Speaker 1: Randy Meisner was not one of your lead bulls, right.

952
00:49:21,878 --> 00:49:24,518
Speaker 1: This is a band that had Don Henley, Joe Walsh,

953
00:49:24,758 --> 00:49:28,958
Speaker 1: Glenn Frye. Those are lead bulls, and Randy was the

954
00:49:28,958 --> 00:49:30,958
Speaker 1: one that his voice was the one on Ticket to

955
00:49:30,998 --> 00:49:34,438
Speaker 1: the Limit great tune, right, And they wanted him to

956
00:49:34,518 --> 00:49:36,638
Speaker 1: go center stage when he sang that song, and he

957
00:49:36,718 --> 00:49:39,118
Speaker 1: just didn't want to do it. It wasn't who he was.

958
00:49:39,838 --> 00:49:43,118
Speaker 1: He wasn't an alpha male, and he eventually wound up

959
00:49:43,198 --> 00:49:45,358
Speaker 1: leaving the band. It just became too much for them.

960
00:49:45,358 --> 00:49:47,118
Speaker 1: There's a lot of other things going on, as you know,

961
00:49:47,198 --> 00:49:50,758
Speaker 1: back in the nineteen seventies that got bands off their tracks. Yeah, baby,

962
00:49:51,158 --> 00:49:53,718
Speaker 1: but I just love the fact that you had this

963
00:49:53,958 --> 00:49:58,598
Speaker 1: introverted guy from Nebraska. It's part of what made the

964
00:49:58,678 --> 00:50:02,758
Speaker 1: team the team, what made the Eagles. Yeah, superstar talent,

965
00:50:03,318 --> 00:50:08,158
Speaker 1: but diversity of styles, diversity of personalities. You know, Randy Meisner,

966
00:50:08,318 --> 00:50:11,518
Speaker 1: you go back at the early Eagles stuff was just amazing.

967
00:50:12,678 --> 00:50:16,438
Speaker 1: Was eventually replaced by Timothy B. Schmidt, who actually replaced

968
00:50:16,478 --> 00:50:21,038
Speaker 1: them on Poco too. But yeah, I think about baseball

969
00:50:21,078 --> 00:50:22,838
Speaker 1: teams and rock and roll bands and kind of the

970
00:50:22,878 --> 00:50:25,638
Speaker 1: same vein where I don't want all of the same.

971
00:50:25,918 --> 00:50:29,998
Speaker 1: If it's a band of entirely of extroverts, we know

972
00:50:30,078 --> 00:50:32,358
Speaker 1: that's not going to last too long. And it's the

973
00:50:32,358 --> 00:50:34,678
Speaker 1: same way with the baseball team. You got hitters all

974
00:50:34,798 --> 00:50:38,238
Speaker 1: chasing the same thing. I'm sorry, that's not going to

975
00:50:38,238 --> 00:50:39,478
Speaker 1: be a championship team.

976
00:50:39,798 --> 00:50:42,918
Speaker 2: I love all that, and that's that's a great breakdown.

977
00:50:42,958 --> 00:50:45,838
Speaker 2: I never had heard that before. And you just use

978
00:50:45,878 --> 00:50:49,238
Speaker 2: the word diversity. We're seeking that within our society, and

979
00:50:49,278 --> 00:50:51,278
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, we want to get this

980
00:50:51,518 --> 00:50:55,638
Speaker 2: same approach to everything. It's so counterintuitive. Again, I think

981
00:50:55,718 --> 00:50:58,958
Speaker 2: it's it's a premier society in general too. We talk diversity,

982
00:50:58,958 --> 00:51:00,798
Speaker 2: but that's not what we want, at least that's not

983
00:51:00,838 --> 00:51:04,518
Speaker 2: what I'm seeing. So within a baseball organization, we used

984
00:51:04,518 --> 00:51:08,958
Speaker 2: to have the most intense arguments. In instructional league. I'm

985
00:51:08,998 --> 00:51:12,558
Speaker 2: like in my date twenties or early thirties, I'm running

986
00:51:12,558 --> 00:51:15,638
Speaker 2: the system, I'm running instructional leader, and here comes Bob

987
00:51:15,678 --> 00:51:17,398
Speaker 2: Clear in the room. I've talked to you about this,

988
00:51:17,878 --> 00:51:19,358
Speaker 2: and it was one morning. It was a picture of

989
00:51:19,398 --> 00:51:23,238
Speaker 2: a Mark McGuire on the cover of the Arizona Republic.

990
00:51:23,718 --> 00:51:25,638
Speaker 2: Hitting the ball in his hands were a certain way,

991
00:51:25,998 --> 00:51:28,758
Speaker 2: I said, bab Alu, check this out. His hands are perfect.

992
00:51:28,798 --> 00:51:32,398
Speaker 2: I love palm up, palm down, whatever, and boba is

993
00:51:32,558 --> 00:51:34,718
Speaker 2: and that's not what you want. This top hand needs

994
00:51:34,718 --> 00:51:37,158
Speaker 2: to be in this position rolling over, I said, you're

995
00:51:37,398 --> 00:51:39,878
Speaker 2: full of crap man. That led to half an hour

996
00:51:39,998 --> 00:51:44,038
Speaker 2: argument with my mentor loud in this back room of

997
00:51:44,118 --> 00:51:48,398
Speaker 2: Geenautry Park. That was a typical morning, typical when we

998
00:51:48,438 --> 00:51:51,598
Speaker 2: had meetings about players. It got loud and it was

999
00:51:51,718 --> 00:51:57,238
Speaker 2: varied opinions. It was great because everybody felt the ability

1000
00:51:58,318 --> 00:52:01,198
Speaker 2: that it was fine, was okay to disagree and to

1001
00:52:01,278 --> 00:52:05,718
Speaker 2: disagree vehemently if that was necessary. Not the case. No,

1002
00:52:05,878 --> 00:52:09,558
Speaker 2: everybody's afraid to argue. Everybody's afraid to argue for their point,

1003
00:52:10,118 --> 00:52:13,918
Speaker 2: and that's a mistake. I want. I want that group

1004
00:52:14,398 --> 00:52:22,678
Speaker 2: that is talented, experienced and opinionated that we could get

1005
00:52:22,718 --> 00:52:25,918
Speaker 2: together and arrive at some conclusions, because when you get

1006
00:52:25,918 --> 00:52:28,638
Speaker 2: around people like that, you know you're gonna hear the truth.

1007
00:52:29,118 --> 00:52:30,838
Speaker 2: You're going to hear the truth. It's not going to

1008
00:52:30,918 --> 00:52:33,638
Speaker 2: be people telling you what you want to hear. And

1009
00:52:33,678 --> 00:52:36,638
Speaker 2: that's the most dangerous place to be when you get

1010
00:52:36,638 --> 00:52:38,958
Speaker 2: people telling you what you want, just what you want

1011
00:52:38,998 --> 00:52:42,118
Speaker 2: to hear. That's my conception, that's what I believe in.

1012
00:52:42,838 --> 00:52:46,518
Speaker 2: I flourished because of that. I'm sitting here talking to

1013
00:52:46,518 --> 00:52:50,798
Speaker 2: you because of that. The best arguments ever. Every morning

1014
00:52:50,958 --> 00:52:53,758
Speaker 2: in the back room taught me so much about the game.

1015
00:52:54,358 --> 00:52:57,198
Speaker 1: That's so well said. I mean, in any business, not

1016
00:52:57,318 --> 00:53:01,118
Speaker 1: just baseball. Don't be afraid to have your positions and

1017
00:53:01,198 --> 00:53:04,758
Speaker 1: opinions challenged. Welcome those and if he hears something different,

1018
00:53:05,718 --> 00:53:09,478
Speaker 1: ask yourself, hey, can I use that? And maybe you don't,

1019
00:53:09,558 --> 00:53:12,998
Speaker 1: Maybe eventually you dismiss it, but be open to being challenged.

1020
00:53:13,038 --> 00:53:13,798
Speaker 1: It'll make you better.

1021
00:53:14,038 --> 00:53:15,398
Speaker 2: Right on, Totally in agreement.

1022
00:53:15,478 --> 00:53:18,238
Speaker 1: Cool stuff, Joe, I really enjoyed this. We'll see what

1023
00:53:18,278 --> 00:53:20,598
Speaker 1: happens with the New York Yankees. It's been a strange

1024
00:53:20,598 --> 00:53:24,918
Speaker 1: season to see them entering here September without really a

1025
00:53:24,998 --> 00:53:26,958
Speaker 1: chance for the postseason. But I know you don't like

1026
00:53:26,958 --> 00:53:28,638
Speaker 1: the word pivot, but to me, it's a chance for

1027
00:53:28,678 --> 00:53:31,038
Speaker 1: the Yankees to pivot in what I call now the

1028
00:53:31,078 --> 00:53:36,118
Speaker 1: modern game, the pitchclock, erara athleticism, ground balls, putting the

1029
00:53:36,118 --> 00:53:39,158
Speaker 1: ball in play, moving runners. It's a beautiful thing and

1030
00:53:39,198 --> 00:53:41,638
Speaker 1: hopefully it gets better along those lines. You got something

1031
00:53:41,638 --> 00:53:42,558
Speaker 1: to take us out today.

1032
00:53:42,918 --> 00:53:45,838
Speaker 2: Yeah. One of my favorite authors is Nelson Demil, and

1033
00:53:45,878 --> 00:53:47,798
Speaker 2: I've read most of his books, Believe it or not,

1034
00:53:47,878 --> 00:53:50,798
Speaker 2: I've read most of his books, from Charms School to

1035
00:53:50,958 --> 00:53:54,198
Speaker 2: Upcountry the Gold Coast, I read all these things. But

1036
00:53:54,238 --> 00:53:57,638
Speaker 2: he wrote one called By the Rivers of Babylon, and

1037
00:53:58,038 --> 00:54:00,998
Speaker 2: in that book the great line that I've kept with me,

1038
00:54:01,438 --> 00:54:05,758
Speaker 2: and it really applies to everything we're talking about today.

1039
00:54:06,158 --> 00:54:08,598
Speaker 2: I can't remember which character said it, but By the

1040
00:54:08,678 --> 00:54:12,678
Speaker 2: Rivers of Babylon by Nelson the meal society will survive

1041
00:54:12,758 --> 00:54:17,558
Speaker 2: if everyday people did every day things every day. An

1042
00:54:17,638 --> 00:54:20,798
Speaker 2: organization will survive if every day people do every day

1043
00:54:20,918 --> 00:54:23,998
Speaker 2: things every day. Be opinionated, tell me what you think,

1044
00:54:24,038 --> 00:54:26,518
Speaker 2: but then be part of the group and support the group,

1045
00:54:26,558 --> 00:54:30,318
Speaker 2: support the team, have each other's back. So I love that.

1046
00:54:30,358 --> 00:54:32,638
Speaker 2: I've loved that. I mean, I read that book probably

1047
00:54:32,678 --> 00:54:35,358
Speaker 2: I don't know, in the late seventies, early when whatever

1048
00:54:35,438 --> 00:54:38,118
Speaker 2: the copyright is on that date, that's pretty much when

1049
00:54:38,158 --> 00:54:41,198
Speaker 2: I read it. I started reading him The Talbot Odyssey

1050
00:54:41,238 --> 00:54:45,158
Speaker 2: about it in the bookstore at the Vancouver Airport while

1051
00:54:45,158 --> 00:54:49,038
Speaker 2: I was roving Vancouver British Columbia and from the Tabot Odyssey.

1052
00:54:49,038 --> 00:54:51,678
Speaker 2: I just kept going and then this book really I

1053
00:54:51,718 --> 00:54:53,038
Speaker 2: loved it. So yeah.

1054
00:54:53,278 --> 00:54:56,878
Speaker 1: I love that the answers to success are not complicated.

1055
00:54:56,998 --> 00:54:59,598
Speaker 1: I remember one guy once said, do simple better.

1056
00:55:00,278 --> 00:55:07,278
Speaker 2: Yeah. I guess I was subconsciously impacted by not even

1057
00:55:07,318 --> 00:55:08,918
Speaker 2: realizing by reading things like that.

1058
00:55:09,318 --> 00:55:11,958
Speaker 1: Cool stuff. Great show, Joe, We'll see you next time.

1059
00:55:11,758 --> 00:55:13,278
Speaker 2: All right, bye, give you well. Thanks.

1060
00:55:21,078 --> 00:55:24,318
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1061
00:55:24,518 --> 00:55:29,518
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1062
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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.