WEBVTT - Fire Drill 045: On The Record 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:05.160 The three most explosive things I know to be true 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.360 about Phil Muckinson are not in the book, and each 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:11.879 of them would have been international news, like probably would 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:15.680 have dwarfed the Saudi stuff in some ways. But they're 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:17.119 not in the book because they were told to me 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:21.680 off the record, and I always honor those agreements. I 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:27.319 got thoughts in my head. Can't get John nothing think 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:35.040 what I'm thinking about. Can't get them out, not think 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:45.200 what I'm thinking about. Hello, this is Alan ship knuck 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:49.800 back for another fire drill, joined by usual wingman Michael 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:53.280 Bamberger and Ryan Frent. We have made a commitment to 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:56.200 you the listener, that we're going to do these every 0:00:56.320 --> 0:01:00.520 Sunday in perpetuity. It's like a life sentence without hope 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:05.720 for parole um. While rotating cast of characters, some guests 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:08.920 obviously Michael, Ryan and myself for traveler out of pocket, 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:11.480 Will we'll mix up the crew, but I think this 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:13.920 will be this will be the core for better and 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:17.880 for worse. So we're excited to get this going. We've 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:19.880 been you know, fire Drills, a new franchise we just 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:23.040 launched this year, kind of built around the big events 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:25.600 and breaking news, but felt like it's time to commit 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:27.920 to a weekly podcast for you, the listeners who have 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:31.759 been so loyal and showed so much fidelity and concern 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:34.520 when we're not on the air. So here we are, boys, 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:38.600 how how do you feel about this new endeavor? Gave 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:41.200 it a fist up. I really give a lot of 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:44.000 credit to the blade uh Frank Lack letter because it 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:48.040 really went sideways and and really in a good way sideways. Um, 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:50.520 and that led to that we should do this all 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:53.320 the week. So Frank, if you're listening, I'm sure he's 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:56.520 a big We know he is. Thank you. Just to 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:58.800 su Rise Michael, this is a medium that most people 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:01.200 listen to. So when you hold up like a clenched fist, 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:05.320 it's it's cool, but they can't quite hear it. This 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:07.520 would be not be good for the Mark's brother who 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:12.800 didn't talk. Was that Harper? I think bad medium for him? 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:16.160 But I saw I was Actually I think today's the anniversary, um, 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:20.480 I don't know, fifty something years of um uh was 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:22.760 it Tommy Smith and John Carlo holding up the race 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:26.880 fist on the Olympic podium? So I know they're heroes 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:30.480 to you and me as well. But so we appreciate 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.880 that homage. A children's book out that's supposed to be 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:37.040 very good about that whole period of our history. It 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:40.560 is powerful. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, I mean, and there 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:42.480 you go people who say, oh, I don't like I 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:45.119 don't like politics in my sports. I mean, go back 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:48.960 to the the Berlin Olympics with Jesse Owens, you have 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:53.280 the night, everything that transpired, Muhammad Ali on down the line. 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:56.560 I mean, politics is always part of sports, and it's 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.040 I think it's naive too to wish it was any 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:02.440 other way. Can I just make a quick golf note, well, 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:05.600 a quick life note about that thirty six Olympics. I 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:08.480 knew well a man who remembered well and now, and 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:09.880 I'm sure you would have met him along the way. 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.519 I know you did. Uh. I knew well a man 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:16.160 who remembered well because he was there in person the 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:19.160 thirty six Olympics in Berlin. That was Sandy Tatum. He 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:23.040 was he was sixteen and uh and he recalled it 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:25.000 for the rest of his life because he had just 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:27.280 the great justse On and Uh and Hitler in the 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:29.799 same stadium. And he said the sound that the fans 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:34.200 made was terrifying. So with respect to people who have 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:38.080 that view, you know, don't mix politics with sports. I 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:41.200 get it on on a level, and it's completely unrealistic 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:43.400 on on another level, and the way we talk about 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:45.680 golf right now, not to get too sober too quickly, 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:50.120 it's completely unavoidable. I would say, we avoided where we can, 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:51.760 but when it comes up, it comes up, and it 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.280 comes up a lot. Yeah, Sandy Tatum, I haven't. I 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:56.920 haven't thought about him in a little while. Actually had 0:03:56.960 --> 0:04:00.600 the great joy playing Cypress Point Club with Sandy and 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.400 he was a Decki matsu Yama before it was fashionable. 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:05.520 He would at the top, he would pause for like 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:08.720 two seconds. He was unbelievable. And when when we played, 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:10.480 he was he was in his early ages where Sandy 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:13.839 Tatum was a former U s J president and he's 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:16.560 a guy who got Harding Park redeveloped and turned into 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:19.920 championship venue and just one of the great figures in 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:23.800 the game and had incredible head of silver hair, and 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:27.680 he was he was a lawyer and just an incredible orator. 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:30.440 I mean, his his command of English language is like 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:33.720 rivals Winston Churchill. I would say he was just a 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:38.080 towering figure and to play to play CPC with him. Uh, 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:39.920 and he was a member and he was a labor 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:41.960 of love. He was really involved in that place. And 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:45.760 that's an all time golf memory for me. Yes, well, Allan, 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:48.120 since we may not get that many opportunities to bring 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:49.800 up Sandy's namel though, as you say, if we do 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.640 this perpetuity, well, plenty of opportunity. He's also he's also 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.200 responsible one of those famous golf quotes of all time, 0:04:56.600 --> 0:04:59.360 seventy four US Open, which was all I would say, 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.000 almost literally lege like when I first sort of fell 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:05.000 into golf, but but I didn't know the score at 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:07.280 the time, but later later became fantased. I think it's 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:09.600 been improved a little bit over time, and guys are 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:11.960 shooting a thousand. I think I think Haylor won. One 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:13.400 was seven over. I'm not sure, but it was a 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:17.479 high massacre. Yeah, the massacret wing foot and uh and 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:19.680 uh Sandy. Sandy was not the president of the the U 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:23.839 s J, but champions Champion of the committee, I'm sorry, 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:27.440 chairman of the Championship Committee, something along those lines. And 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:29.680 he said, we're not trying to embarrass the best golfers 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:33.000 in the world. We're trying to identify them. And uh, 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:35.280 that was when the U s J was the U 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:39.080 s G A. Yeah, what would Sandy Tatum think of 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:41.760 a two whole playoff to decide the US Open. It's 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:45.279 so bizarre, like either either be sudden death or go 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:47.159 to like, you know, four holes, which is a haftw 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:49.880 amount of golf, but to hold It's like it's how 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:53.560 they settle on that. H Ryan. This is also the 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:56.600 guy during another US Open, guys there was do you 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:58.960 remember the named lan Well Allen would definitely know the 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.520 name Ryan with all the names you know, do you 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:07.159 know the name ln Hinkel of course, yes, random random golfers, yes, 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:11.039 Solon Hinkel. Uh was it an Inverness? I think it 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:15.080 was Inverness? Uh took a short shortcut by teeing it 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:17.040 up on a pencil and playing the wrong fairway and 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:20.240 turning a part five into a par four. And so 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:23.440 see Sandy planted a tree that night so he couldn't 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.440 do it, you know. But and then Henkel did do it. 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:28.200 I've told the story wrong. At first he did it 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:31.480 with a regular tape. Then then take them planted the tree, 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:33.640 and then Hankle did it again with a t he 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:35.440 teed it up. You know, he put the ball up 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:38.719 on a on a t and uh and guy started complaining, 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:40.640 you know, you're changing the course. You're changing the course 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:46.400 and uh and and seeing as it were improving the course. 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:49.800 I mean, that's a trucking new tree under the cloak 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:52.719 of midnight and the planting and the guys show up 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:57.120 the next day. It was big. It was like a 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:03.720 sixty ft spruce. It was big. The Ankle tree his 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:05.720 open right at the times a year or two ago, 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:07.559 and you know, and it made reference to the ankle 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:11.320 trees along with the eisenhowerd Tree. And you know some 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:14.600 people are still sitting shove for the Eisenhoward tree. Uh. 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:16.520 It was one of the great trees and all the golf. 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.800 But we gross, Alan, what would you say, Alan and Ryan? 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:23.920 Ryan grew up on of course, of the very futures. 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:26.680 Do you have a I'm sure you love the pebble 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:28.800 Pebble bea tree, but you have a favorite tree in 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.960 in in golf Allen Well, of course the tree in 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.440 the eighteenth fairy at Pebble died. And when I was 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:36.800 working there in the nineties, was I working there? No, 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:38.760 I guess I was already I'd already left, but it 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:40.960 was I want to say it was mid nineties. They 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:43.640 trucked in a new tree to get it and to 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:47.080 get down to the eighteenth fairway. It was the most 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:49.760 amazing piece of machinery I've ever seen. It was a 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:52.800 semi that had about a hundred wheels and they could 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:56.480 they could incrementally change the direction of each so this 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:59.080 like semi could do these s turns to get through 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:01.520 the lodge area and get down into this very tight 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:03.760 compact and just moved like a foot at a time. 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:06.720 It was incredible. And uh yeah, I like that tree. 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:08.920 I like the tree off the fourteenth hole of the 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:12.280 dune's course at Monte Peninsula, but it's probably ghost tree, 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:15.320 uh you know, at a abandoned dunes. And I was 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:16.760 just took my well, as you know, I took my 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.200 kids camping at Coya National Forest and there was this 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:22.080 incredible dead tree. I took a photo and I need 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:23.720 to send it to the Uncle Tony group chat because 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:27.680 it looks exactly like the ghost tree. But anyway, what 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:31.640 about you, Ryan, are you an artist? I mean, I'm 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:34.080 gonna bring some like I feel like my job on 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.760 this podcast is to bring some like the common man Lee, 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:40.600 just like Pabble and Monterey Peninsula. There used to be 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:43.600 three shitty trees in the center of sixteen fairway at 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.560 the Elpinic Country Club, Okay. And it wasn't like we 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:51.080 didn't have fucking s curve the semis coming like bob 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:56.560 uh the you know, like the the superintendent was probably 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:59.920 making two dollars year. Took his chainsaw out there and 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.440 cut them down like a normal person does because they're stupid. 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:04.360 They're in the center of the fairway. But they were 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:06.600 very iconic because he used to ring the bell. You know, 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:09.720 peanut terms iconting. Uh. There was a bell hanging on 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:11.320 it and so you had to wait for the bell 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:15.120 uh to do it. And I was playing in a 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:18.640 high school match and someone hit the bell uh that 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:22.880 I was playing. I mean, my god, you guys are 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:24.880 like people are coming in in the middle of the night. 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:28.360 They have s curve things. Michael's making notes about that 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.600 bell right now. Look at it. I mean, I've talked 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:35.319 to Michael for twelve hours over the last eight days 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.400 and he just made He's making notes again. The man 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:40.280 never stopped. I was just gonna note Ryan, tell me 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:42.960 if this is not correct. Was your maternal grandfather not 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:45.840 an arborist among his other among the many other things 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:48.120 he was in his life? He was, and I was 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:50.800 even knew as widely read as you are, may not 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:55.880 know the book um. Ryan's mother is a Eustis and 0:09:56.120 --> 0:10:01.440 Uh and Ryan's maternal grandfather. His mother's father was Obie Eustace. 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:05.160 And here's the author of this remarkable book called Notes 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:11.920 from the North Country. Is that working a lot of 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:20.160 trees in this book? Alan the family eight muskrat in 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:27.600 their youth. Muskrat is a black, loyally disgusting, repulsive meat. Yes, 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:30.680 there's baked, like at least like if you put it 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.520 under an open fire you could maybe kill some of 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.679 the flavor and replace it with something else. But they 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:39.880 didn't do that. They just baked it. They had black 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:44.280 blood coming out of it. It's actually Mason that Ryan 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:49.480 made it this far. I feel like I feel like 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:51.560 at this point we should offer a mission statement for 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:54.520 this podcast, because I'm sure that the listeners are totally perplexed, 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:57.120 like this is like this, like Seinfeld, it's like that 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:05.560 podcast about nothing. You mean the listener period. My mom 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:09.000 who religiously listens to everything I do is like, well 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:12.480 that's yeah, as gonna say. I think our vision for 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:15.760 this podcast we're gonna recap the weekend golf. Maybe we'll 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:17.920 look ahead to what's coming, but obviously there's gonna be 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:21.280 some some unexpected detours. And by the way, to those 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:24.560 listening at home, we do not talk in advance about 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:27.439 any of this stuff. There's no game plan, there's no 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:31.360 there's there's no I would say there's no thought because 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:33.559 we were thinking about golf all the time, three of us. 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.040 But we just we just press record and freewheel, which 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:39.040 is probably too apparent right now, Alan, are you aware 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:46.640 that Ryan's mother, the former Jenny Eustace, it's just finishing 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:48.560 and she's probably at that point is so many of 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:51.760 us have been, where she's slowing down because she's about 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:57.680 to finish. Phil you un authorized biography, Phil Mickelson. This 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:01.559 is another thing that you don't know, Mike, is Alan 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:04.840 and my mother had a conversation today, just like you 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:08.600 and my mother. Uh Alan called me and my mom 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:12.200 was there and very the thing. Enough about my family, 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:14.240 because Lord Mills, we're going to talk about that at 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:16.559 some point down the road. Let's talk about Phil. I mean, 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:19.600 this is in our in the golf media landscape. That 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:21.560 was one of the big developments of this week, especially 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:24.600 in our world because Uh, he's over in Saudi Arabia. 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:26.560 This is a big moment for live golf. They're they're 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:29.600 on the home soil, essentially the motherland, if you will, 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:35.840 and um, A reporter asked Philisoft a softball question basically says, oh, 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:38.400 you had some spicy things to say about the Saudi 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:40.880 Arabia and it's people you know. Now that you hear, 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.400 what are your feelings? Obviously the politic thing to do. 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:46.959 Maybe the the old Phil Mickelson, when he used to 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:50.160 be smooth and and a master publicist, would have said, oh, 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:52.960 I love it here that people are so gracious, wonderful. Instead, 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:56.240 this is what he said. Jake Muldowney, our producer roll 0:12:56.280 --> 0:13:00.439 the tape. Jake made some comments about this country last year, 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:02.680 which you've apologized for. I just wonder how you feel 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:05.240 about now you're here. Have you changed your opinion? So 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:08.960 I will reiterate. I never did an interview with Alan Schepnick, 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:13.480 and I find that my experience with everybody associated with 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:18.720 live Golf has been nothing but incredibly positive. Uh, And 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:21.160 I have the utmost respect for everybody that I've been 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:27.160 involved with. So that's what Phil said. And um obviously 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:32.960 it's it was a weird non sequitur, but um I was. 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:36.839 I was camping in Skuya National Park when this happened. No, 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.560 that's what I need to know, Allen. Let's stop right here, 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:42.959 because one could get ahold of Noel with the fire 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:47.800 pit group firepit group chat and for people that have 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:51.840 the get getting Alan to have any good sort of 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.559 service in anything is quite a miracle. In fact, they 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.760 had none. I have to know when it came to 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:00.839 when you finally found sir of us. Was it just 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:05.480 like your phone had to be like starting the it's even, 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:07.800 it's even, it's even better than this because this camping 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:09.200 my kids are on this they have a week break 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:11.880 in the middle of October every year, and so um, 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:13.640 there was always there was a lot of talking about 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:15.400 what to do, what not to do. Anyway, make a 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:18.800 long story short, this camping trip was very very last minute. 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:21.440 So it was an extremely hasty departure and trying to 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.120 mobilize four kids and a dog and all the gear 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:25.680 because it's getting cold. Now you know, it's in the 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:28.960 thirties at night. And so as we were doing that 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:31.920 and changing cars and everything, I couldn't find my phone. 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.040 And so I said, I said, okay, we can't leave 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:37.960 on this trip until I find my phone. And everyone 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:40.080 looked for like thirty minutes, and all of cars in 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:42.200 the house there we could not find the fucking phone, 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:44.320 and my find my iPhone was off. I guess my 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:47.480 ringer was off. And finally I was like, okay, we 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:48.800 gotta go on this trip. I mean, we got a 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:50.920 four and half hour drive, let's go. So we left 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:54.240 my phone behind. So I literally had no phone and 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:57.680 no service and so um. But as we were driving up, 0:14:57.720 --> 0:14:59.240 you know, all my kids have phones, of course, there 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:01.640 all teenagers. So I was using my son Ben and 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:03.560 my daughter Olivia was using their phone to make calls, 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:06.720 and I was texting people and so and Matt Chanelle 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.000 was one of them. So we can't for two days 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:10.760 and we're driving out of the mountains and you finally 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:14.280 get service and I can't remember one of my kids 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:16.280 had a text for Matt saying called me. Immediately. I 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:18.800 was like, oh, this sounds sort of serious, and so 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:20.360 I called him. I was like, hey, buddy, what's up 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:23.160 and he's like, wow, you picked a great time to 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:26.840 go to literally disappear into the woods. So um, so 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.040 that was I was very slow to learn about it 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:31.160 because not only even when I got service, I don't 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:32.800 have access to my Twitter because of course I can, 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:34.840 I don't know my passwords on just not on my 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.720 phone and all this and that. So it was it 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.680 was wild where did you find your phone? Did you 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:43.520 find your phone? And how many roughly text message? Well, 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.640 so eventually we pulled when we stopped for dinner, I 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:48.680 did have my laptop, like I always bring my laptop 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:52.040 just in case, like if you know, if if Tiger 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:54.120 has another car accident or something, you gotta be really 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:55.640 it's kind of like a surgeon, you know, you get 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:57.720 your beeper just in case. So I had my laptop, 0:15:57.760 --> 0:15:58.960 so then I was able to get into my eye 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.080 message and um, I don't know I had it was 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:06.840 hundreds of messages and and you know, so many Twitter 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:09.680 notifications and all that, and it was it was so 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:12.840 jarring because for for like the first few hours when 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:14.440 I was on that trip, I was all twitchy because 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:15.880 I had my phone. You know, we're just so used 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.480 to checking it and um but it was great. It 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.280 made it made me enjoy the serenity of the nature, 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:25.400 and it was a blissful break. And then the walk 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.360 right into this ship store, it was like, oh my god. 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:30.840 So I assume you knew as soon as you saw 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:34.440 the clip and that he was just trying to like 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:38.120 play word sound right, like you didn't think that he 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:41.160 was denying that he ever talked, right, I mean, that 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:44.200 was just Phil. Um. You know, he's always working in edge, 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:48.600 he's always got an agenda, and so um, yeah, he 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:51.320 was in his it's just semantics. He's saying, well, it 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:53.640 was an off the record conversation, therefore it doesn't count 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:55.080 as an interview, and he said, you know, he never 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:57.640 never had an interview whatever. So yeah, that was of 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:01.800 course Phil knows we spoke many times of fact, so um, 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:05.480 it's it was bizarre. And but so let me we're 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:07.919 gonna open the floor up to Michael, because in my absence, 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:11.280 Michael jumped in and wrote a very thoughtful column that 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:13.560 kind of explained the whole situation. I thought expertly, and 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:15.879 I was deeply grateful, and I think it already posted 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:18.040 by the time I came back into Civilizations. So it 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:22.119 was like, I really missed the whole thing. But Michael, 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:24.320 why don't you summarize your thesis for those who haven't 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:26.520 haven't read your story, Like, you know, what does your 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:30.040 take on the situation? Happy to do that just so 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:35.080 that people who are students of Alan SHIPNK cell phone troubles. No, 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.320 what was the height from which you dropped your cell 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.480 phone at the two thousand eighteen Writer Cup in Paris. 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:43.080 I think you were in a bleacher and maybe it 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.879 dropped from a bleacher. I'm not sure what happened, but 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:48.879 I know you were. There was cell phone lack of 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:51.919 cell phone frenzy that week too. Yeah, so this was 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:54.880 of course that that was a freighted writer cut because 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:56.720 I had made the prediction that the US was gonna 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:59.200 embark on this long term dominance and all of Europe 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:01.200 paid in me already, and so it was already a 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:03.480 week where I needed my phone. I loved day you Allen, 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:06.520 I would differ right correct, It's all part of the fun. 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:11.000 But it was the opening match that, you know, Friday morning, 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.400 and me and some of our former golf dot Com 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:15.320 colleagues were up in the bleachers and it was like whatever, 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:19.399 thirty people and it was totally nuts and like the 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:22.040 first few shots that rider kept have been hit. And 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:24.560 I don't know if Dylan the chair your standing you 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:26.359 kind of bumped me. I don't know, something happened. I 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.080 dropped my phone. It felt about twelve feet and landed 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:31.439 face down on pavement and it was like, you know, 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:33.560 you're just afraid to turn it over, and it was 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:37.359 just completely spider webbed and unusable. I did find a 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:40.359 place in Paris was open late that night and they 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:41.640 gave me a new screen. So I was really only 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.960 had a commission for one day. But yeah, I love 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:48.000 Slash hates self. I will guess on the French don't 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:54.160 take kindly to up upset Americans who desperately need their 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:59.119 cell phone fixed. Not long. Yeah, yeah, So the guy 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:00.760 said he needed an I was like, great, I'll go 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:06.480 have dinner and actually I had the Well that just 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:10.600 not enough for a puppet. Did you already revealing yourself 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:13.440 to be. I'm not saying you are the vulgar American 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:16.800 you would be to get into the soup class. Well, 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:18.720 in that whole week of logistics, I went up on 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:20.439 a bus that I went to the wrong place. It 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:23.120 was it was a mess but so yeah, I came 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:25.480 back after dinner and he wasn't done, and it was 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:27.560 a long dinner, it was probably almost two hours, and 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:30.720 I just looked at him blankly, like I was bereft 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:32.440 of any emotion at that point, and I just said, 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:35.360 I'm just gonna sit here and wait, which I think 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:40.240 was also in front that smart quite quickly googling bereft 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:42.679 real quick, and then I will come back and have 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:47.720 some Ryan, have you ever been to France? Uh the 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:50.439 McDonald's milk shakes there. I swear to god, they're like 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:53.479 a shot class. They're so small. It's a joke. Alan 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:58.960 I thought it was bizarre. I imagine that that and 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:01.639 number one emphasized imagine I don't know, I can't pretend 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:04.679 to know. It goes through Phil's mind. I imagine, you know, 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:07.960 he's over there in Saudi Arabia. He's dealing with crown 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:10.439 Prince and this guy and that not crown prints but 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:14.480 all level of royalty. And he's like, uh, I never 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:16.920 talked to the guy. I never what you talked to him? Well, 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:19.040 I never got interviewed by the guy. So now he's 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:22.680 doubling down and what he's already been saying all along there, 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:25.800 he's looking for cover, as you know, as as somebody 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:29.720 else not I observed. Uh, if you were collecting a 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:32.239 hundreds of millions of dollars from these people and you 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:34.400 were in their country and you know what they've done 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:38.240 to Jamal Kashogi, Yeah, you're gonna be pretty careful what 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:42.960 you say. Um, I think you know it's upsetting actually 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:51.120 because he must know on some level it's disingenuous. Uh yeah, 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:54.440 it's too clever by half, as we said in a headline, 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:59.879