Speaker 1: The three most explosive things I know to be true
Speaker 1: about Phil Muckinson are not in the book, and each
Speaker 1: of them would have been international news, like probably would
Speaker 1: have dwarfed the Saudi stuff in some ways. But they're
Speaker 1: not in the book because they were told to me
Speaker 1: off the record, and I always honor those agreements. I
Speaker 1: got thoughts in my head. Can't get John nothing think
Speaker 1: what I'm thinking about. Can't get them out, not think
Speaker 1: what I'm thinking about. Hello, this is Alan ship knuck
Speaker 1: back for another fire drill, joined by usual wingman Michael
Speaker 1: Bamberger and Ryan Frent. We have made a commitment to
Speaker 1: you the listener, that we're going to do these every
Speaker 1: Sunday in perpetuity. It's like a life sentence without hope
Speaker 1: for parole um. While rotating cast of characters, some guests
Speaker 1: obviously Michael, Ryan and myself for traveler out of pocket,
Speaker 1: Will we'll mix up the crew, but I think this
Speaker 1: will be this will be the core for better and
Speaker 1: for worse. So we're excited to get this going. We've
Speaker 1: been you know, fire Drills, a new franchise we just
Speaker 1: launched this year, kind of built around the big events
Speaker 1: and breaking news, but felt like it's time to commit
Speaker 1: to a weekly podcast for you, the listeners who have
Speaker 1: been so loyal and showed so much fidelity and concern
Speaker 1: when we're not on the air. So here we are, boys,
Speaker 1: how how do you feel about this new endeavor? Gave
Speaker 1: it a fist up. I really give a lot of
Speaker 1: credit to the blade uh Frank Lack letter because it
Speaker 1: really went sideways and and really in a good way sideways. Um,
Speaker 1: and that led to that we should do this all
Speaker 1: the week. So Frank, if you're listening, I'm sure he's
Speaker 1: a big We know he is. Thank you. Just to
Speaker 1: su Rise Michael, this is a medium that most people
Speaker 1: listen to. So when you hold up like a clenched fist,
Speaker 1: it's it's cool, but they can't quite hear it. This
Speaker 1: would be not be good for the Mark's brother who
Speaker 1: didn't talk. Was that Harper? I think bad medium for him?
Speaker 1: But I saw I was Actually I think today's the anniversary, um,
Speaker 1: I don't know, fifty something years of um uh was
Speaker 1: it Tommy Smith and John Carlo holding up the race
Speaker 1: fist on the Olympic podium? So I know they're heroes
Speaker 1: to you and me as well. But so we appreciate
Speaker 1: that homage. A children's book out that's supposed to be
Speaker 1: very good about that whole period of our history. It
Speaker 1: is powerful. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, I mean, and there
Speaker 1: you go people who say, oh, I don't like I
Speaker 1: don't like politics in my sports. I mean, go back
Speaker 1: to the the Berlin Olympics with Jesse Owens, you have
Speaker 1: the night, everything that transpired, Muhammad Ali on down the line.
Speaker 1: I mean, politics is always part of sports, and it's
Speaker 1: I think it's naive too to wish it was any
Speaker 1: other way. Can I just make a quick golf note, well,
Speaker 1: a quick life note about that thirty six Olympics. I
Speaker 1: knew well a man who remembered well and now, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure you would have met him along the way.
Speaker 1: I know you did. Uh. I knew well a man
Speaker 1: who remembered well because he was there in person the
Speaker 1: thirty six Olympics in Berlin. That was Sandy Tatum. He
Speaker 1: was he was sixteen and uh and he recalled it
Speaker 1: for the rest of his life because he had just
Speaker 1: the great justse On and Uh and Hitler in the
Speaker 1: same stadium. And he said the sound that the fans
Speaker 1: made was terrifying. So with respect to people who have
Speaker 1: that view, you know, don't mix politics with sports. I
Speaker 1: get it on on a level, and it's completely unrealistic
Speaker 1: on on another level, and the way we talk about
Speaker 1: golf right now, not to get too sober too quickly,
Speaker 1: it's completely unavoidable. I would say, we avoided where we can,
Speaker 1: but when it comes up, it comes up, and it
Speaker 1: comes up a lot. Yeah, Sandy Tatum, I haven't. I
Speaker 1: haven't thought about him in a little while. Actually had
Speaker 1: the great joy playing Cypress Point Club with Sandy and
Speaker 1: he was a Decki matsu Yama before it was fashionable.
Speaker 1: He would at the top, he would pause for like
Speaker 1: two seconds. He was unbelievable. And when when we played,
Speaker 1: he was he was in his early ages where Sandy
Speaker 1: Tatum was a former U s J president and he's
Speaker 1: a guy who got Harding Park redeveloped and turned into
Speaker 1: championship venue and just one of the great figures in
Speaker 1: the game and had incredible head of silver hair, and
Speaker 1: he was he was a lawyer and just an incredible orator.
Speaker 1: I mean, his his command of English language is like
Speaker 1: rivals Winston Churchill. I would say he was just a
Speaker 1: towering figure and to play to play CPC with him. Uh,
Speaker 1: and he was a member and he was a labor
Speaker 1: of love. He was really involved in that place. And
Speaker 1: that's an all time golf memory for me. Yes, well, Allan,
Speaker 1: since we may not get that many opportunities to bring
Speaker 1: up Sandy's namel though, as you say, if we do
Speaker 1: this perpetuity, well, plenty of opportunity. He's also he's also
Speaker 1: responsible one of those famous golf quotes of all time,
Speaker 1: seventy four US Open, which was all I would say,
Speaker 1: almost literally lege like when I first sort of fell
Speaker 1: into golf, but but I didn't know the score at
Speaker 1: the time, but later later became fantased. I think it's
Speaker 1: been improved a little bit over time, and guys are
Speaker 1: shooting a thousand. I think I think Haylor won. One
Speaker 1: was seven over. I'm not sure, but it was a
Speaker 1: high massacre. Yeah, the massacret wing foot and uh and
Speaker 1: uh Sandy. Sandy was not the president of the the U
Speaker 1: s J, but champions Champion of the committee, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: chairman of the Championship Committee, something along those lines. And
Speaker 1: he said, we're not trying to embarrass the best golfers
Speaker 1: in the world. We're trying to identify them. And uh,
Speaker 1: that was when the U s J was the U
Speaker 1: s G A. Yeah, what would Sandy Tatum think of
Speaker 1: a two whole playoff to decide the US Open. It's
Speaker 1: so bizarre, like either either be sudden death or go
Speaker 1: to like, you know, four holes, which is a haftw
Speaker 1: amount of golf, but to hold It's like it's how
Speaker 1: they settle on that. H Ryan. This is also the
Speaker 1: guy during another US Open, guys there was do you
Speaker 1: remember the named lan Well Allen would definitely know the
Speaker 1: name Ryan with all the names you know, do you
Speaker 1: know the name ln Hinkel of course, yes, random random golfers, yes,
Speaker 1: Solon Hinkel. Uh was it an Inverness? I think it
Speaker 1: was Inverness? Uh took a short shortcut by teeing it
Speaker 1: up on a pencil and playing the wrong fairway and
Speaker 1: turning a part five into a par four. And so
Speaker 1: see Sandy planted a tree that night so he couldn't
Speaker 1: do it, you know. But and then Henkel did do it.
Speaker 1: I've told the story wrong. At first he did it
Speaker 1: with a regular tape. Then then take them planted the tree,
Speaker 1: and then Hankle did it again with a t he
Speaker 1: teed it up. You know, he put the ball up
Speaker 1: on a on a t and uh and guy started complaining,
Speaker 1: you know, you're changing the course. You're changing the course
Speaker 1: and uh and and seeing as it were improving the course.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a trucking new tree under the cloak
Speaker 1: of midnight and the planting and the guys show up
Speaker 1: the next day. It was big. It was like a
Speaker 1: sixty ft spruce. It was big. The Ankle tree his
Speaker 1: open right at the times a year or two ago,
Speaker 1: and you know, and it made reference to the ankle
Speaker 1: trees along with the eisenhowerd Tree. And you know some
Speaker 1: people are still sitting shove for the Eisenhoward tree. Uh.
Speaker 1: It was one of the great trees and all the golf.
Speaker 1: But we gross, Alan, what would you say, Alan and Ryan?
Speaker 1: Ryan grew up on of course, of the very futures.
Speaker 1: Do you have a I'm sure you love the pebble
Speaker 1: Pebble bea tree, but you have a favorite tree in
Speaker 1: in in golf Allen Well, of course the tree in
Speaker 1: the eighteenth fairy at Pebble died. And when I was
Speaker 1: working there in the nineties, was I working there? No,
Speaker 1: I guess I was already I'd already left, but it
Speaker 1: was I want to say it was mid nineties. They
Speaker 1: trucked in a new tree to get it and to
Speaker 1: get down to the eighteenth fairway. It was the most
Speaker 1: amazing piece of machinery I've ever seen. It was a
Speaker 1: semi that had about a hundred wheels and they could
Speaker 1: they could incrementally change the direction of each so this
Speaker 1: like semi could do these s turns to get through
Speaker 1: the lodge area and get down into this very tight
Speaker 1: compact and just moved like a foot at a time.
Speaker 1: It was incredible. And uh yeah, I like that tree.
Speaker 1: I like the tree off the fourteenth hole of the
Speaker 1: dune's course at Monte Peninsula, but it's probably ghost tree,
Speaker 1: uh you know, at a abandoned dunes. And I was
Speaker 1: just took my well, as you know, I took my
Speaker 1: kids camping at Coya National Forest and there was this
Speaker 1: incredible dead tree. I took a photo and I need
Speaker 1: to send it to the Uncle Tony group chat because
Speaker 1: it looks exactly like the ghost tree. But anyway, what
Speaker 1: about you, Ryan, are you an artist? I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna bring some like I feel like my job on
Speaker 1: this podcast is to bring some like the common man Lee,
Speaker 1: just like Pabble and Monterey Peninsula. There used to be
Speaker 1: three shitty trees in the center of sixteen fairway at
Speaker 1: the Elpinic Country Club, Okay. And it wasn't like we
Speaker 1: didn't have fucking s curve the semis coming like bob
Speaker 1: uh the you know, like the the superintendent was probably
Speaker 1: making two dollars year. Took his chainsaw out there and
Speaker 1: cut them down like a normal person does because they're stupid.
Speaker 1: They're in the center of the fairway. But they were
Speaker 1: very iconic because he used to ring the bell. You know,
Speaker 1: peanut terms iconting. Uh. There was a bell hanging on
Speaker 1: it and so you had to wait for the bell
Speaker 1: uh to do it. And I was playing in a
Speaker 1: high school match and someone hit the bell uh that
Speaker 1: I was playing. I mean, my god, you guys are
Speaker 1: like people are coming in in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1: They have s curve things. Michael's making notes about that
Speaker 1: bell right now. Look at it. I mean, I've talked
Speaker 1: to Michael for twelve hours over the last eight days
Speaker 1: and he just made He's making notes again. The man
Speaker 1: never stopped. I was just gonna note Ryan, tell me
Speaker 1: if this is not correct. Was your maternal grandfather not
Speaker 1: an arborist among his other among the many other things
Speaker 1: he was in his life? He was, and I was
Speaker 1: even knew as widely read as you are, may not
Speaker 1: know the book um. Ryan's mother is a Eustis and
Speaker 1: Uh and Ryan's maternal grandfather. His mother's father was Obie Eustace.
Speaker 1: And here's the author of this remarkable book called Notes
Speaker 1: from the North Country. Is that working a lot of
Speaker 1: trees in this book? Alan the family eight muskrat in
Speaker 1: their youth. Muskrat is a black, loyally disgusting, repulsive meat. Yes,
Speaker 1: there's baked, like at least like if you put it
Speaker 1: under an open fire you could maybe kill some of
Speaker 1: the flavor and replace it with something else. But they
Speaker 1: didn't do that. They just baked it. They had black
Speaker 1: blood coming out of it. It's actually Mason that Ryan
Speaker 1: made it this far. I feel like I feel like
Speaker 1: at this point we should offer a mission statement for
Speaker 1: this podcast, because I'm sure that the listeners are totally perplexed,
Speaker 1: like this is like this, like Seinfeld, it's like that
Speaker 1: podcast about nothing. You mean the listener period. My mom
Speaker 1: who religiously listens to everything I do is like, well
Speaker 1: that's yeah, as gonna say. I think our vision for
Speaker 1: this podcast we're gonna recap the weekend golf. Maybe we'll
Speaker 1: look ahead to what's coming, but obviously there's gonna be
Speaker 1: some some unexpected detours. And by the way, to those
Speaker 1: listening at home, we do not talk in advance about
Speaker 1: any of this stuff. There's no game plan, there's no
Speaker 1: there's there's no I would say there's no thought because
Speaker 1: we were thinking about golf all the time, three of us.
Speaker 1: But we just we just press record and freewheel, which
Speaker 1: is probably too apparent right now, Alan, are you aware
Speaker 1: that Ryan's mother, the former Jenny Eustace, it's just finishing
Speaker 1: and she's probably at that point is so many of
Speaker 1: us have been, where she's slowing down because she's about
Speaker 1: to finish. Phil you un authorized biography, Phil Mickelson. This
Speaker 1: is another thing that you don't know, Mike, is Alan
Speaker 1: and my mother had a conversation today, just like you
Speaker 1: and my mother. Uh Alan called me and my mom
Speaker 1: was there and very the thing. Enough about my family,
Speaker 1: because Lord Mills, we're going to talk about that at
Speaker 1: some point down the road. Let's talk about Phil. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is in our in the golf media landscape. That
Speaker 1: was one of the big developments of this week, especially
Speaker 1: in our world because Uh, he's over in Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 1: This is a big moment for live golf. They're they're
Speaker 1: on the home soil, essentially the motherland, if you will,
Speaker 1: and um, A reporter asked Philisoft a softball question basically says, oh,
Speaker 1: you had some spicy things to say about the Saudi
Speaker 1: Arabia and it's people you know. Now that you hear,
Speaker 1: what are your feelings? Obviously the politic thing to do.
Speaker 1: Maybe the the old Phil Mickelson, when he used to
Speaker 1: be smooth and and a master publicist, would have said, oh,
Speaker 1: I love it here that people are so gracious, wonderful. Instead,
Speaker 1: this is what he said. Jake Muldowney, our producer roll
Speaker 1: the tape. Jake made some comments about this country last year,
Speaker 1: which you've apologized for. I just wonder how you feel
Speaker 1: about now you're here. Have you changed your opinion? So
Speaker 1: I will reiterate. I never did an interview with Alan Schepnick,
Speaker 1: and I find that my experience with everybody associated with
Speaker 1: live Golf has been nothing but incredibly positive. Uh, And
Speaker 1: I have the utmost respect for everybody that I've been
Speaker 1: involved with. So that's what Phil said. And um obviously
Speaker 1: it's it was a weird non sequitur, but um I was.
Speaker 1: I was camping in Skuya National Park when this happened. No,
Speaker 1: that's what I need to know, Allen. Let's stop right here,
Speaker 1: because one could get ahold of Noel with the fire
Speaker 1: pit group firepit group chat and for people that have
Speaker 1: the get getting Alan to have any good sort of
Speaker 1: service in anything is quite a miracle. In fact, they
Speaker 1: had none. I have to know when it came to
Speaker 1: when you finally found sir of us. Was it just
Speaker 1: like your phone had to be like starting the it's even,
Speaker 1: it's even, it's even better than this because this camping
Speaker 1: my kids are on this they have a week break
Speaker 1: in the middle of October every year, and so um,
Speaker 1: there was always there was a lot of talking about
Speaker 1: what to do, what not to do. Anyway, make a
Speaker 1: long story short, this camping trip was very very last minute.
Speaker 1: So it was an extremely hasty departure and trying to
Speaker 1: mobilize four kids and a dog and all the gear
Speaker 1: because it's getting cold. Now you know, it's in the
Speaker 1: thirties at night. And so as we were doing that
Speaker 1: and changing cars and everything, I couldn't find my phone.
Speaker 1: And so I said, I said, okay, we can't leave
Speaker 1: on this trip until I find my phone. And everyone
Speaker 1: looked for like thirty minutes, and all of cars in
Speaker 1: the house there we could not find the fucking phone,
Speaker 1: and my find my iPhone was off. I guess my
Speaker 1: ringer was off. And finally I was like, okay, we
Speaker 1: gotta go on this trip. I mean, we got a
Speaker 1: four and half hour drive, let's go. So we left
Speaker 1: my phone behind. So I literally had no phone and
Speaker 1: no service and so um. But as we were driving up,
Speaker 1: you know, all my kids have phones, of course, there
Speaker 1: all teenagers. So I was using my son Ben and
Speaker 1: my daughter Olivia was using their phone to make calls,
Speaker 1: and I was texting people and so and Matt Chanelle
Speaker 1: was one of them. So we can't for two days
Speaker 1: and we're driving out of the mountains and you finally
Speaker 1: get service and I can't remember one of my kids
Speaker 1: had a text for Matt saying called me. Immediately. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, this sounds sort of serious, and so
Speaker 1: I called him. I was like, hey, buddy, what's up
Speaker 1: and he's like, wow, you picked a great time to
Speaker 1: go to literally disappear into the woods. So um, so
Speaker 1: that was I was very slow to learn about it
Speaker 1: because not only even when I got service, I don't
Speaker 1: have access to my Twitter because of course I can,
Speaker 1: I don't know my passwords on just not on my
Speaker 1: phone and all this and that. So it was it
Speaker 1: was wild where did you find your phone? Did you
Speaker 1: find your phone? And how many roughly text message? Well,
Speaker 1: so eventually we pulled when we stopped for dinner, I
Speaker 1: did have my laptop, like I always bring my laptop
Speaker 1: just in case, like if you know, if if Tiger
Speaker 1: has another car accident or something, you gotta be really
Speaker 1: it's kind of like a surgeon, you know, you get
Speaker 1: your beeper just in case. So I had my laptop,
Speaker 1: so then I was able to get into my eye
Speaker 1: message and um, I don't know I had it was
Speaker 1: hundreds of messages and and you know, so many Twitter
Speaker 1: notifications and all that, and it was it was so
Speaker 1: jarring because for for like the first few hours when
Speaker 1: I was on that trip, I was all twitchy because
Speaker 1: I had my phone. You know, we're just so used
Speaker 1: to checking it and um but it was great. It
Speaker 1: made it made me enjoy the serenity of the nature,
Speaker 1: and it was a blissful break. And then the walk
Speaker 1: right into this ship store, it was like, oh my god.
Speaker 1: So I assume you knew as soon as you saw
Speaker 1: the clip and that he was just trying to like
Speaker 1: play word sound right, like you didn't think that he
Speaker 1: was denying that he ever talked, right, I mean, that
Speaker 1: was just Phil. Um. You know, he's always working in edge,
Speaker 1: he's always got an agenda, and so um, yeah, he
Speaker 1: was in his it's just semantics. He's saying, well, it
Speaker 1: was an off the record conversation, therefore it doesn't count
Speaker 1: as an interview, and he said, you know, he never
Speaker 1: never had an interview whatever. So yeah, that was of
Speaker 1: course Phil knows we spoke many times of fact, so um,
Speaker 1: it's it was bizarre. And but so let me we're
Speaker 1: gonna open the floor up to Michael, because in my absence,
Speaker 1: Michael jumped in and wrote a very thoughtful column that
Speaker 1: kind of explained the whole situation. I thought expertly, and
Speaker 1: I was deeply grateful, and I think it already posted
Speaker 1: by the time I came back into Civilizations. So it
Speaker 1: was like, I really missed the whole thing. But Michael,
Speaker 1: why don't you summarize your thesis for those who haven't
Speaker 1: haven't read your story, Like, you know, what does your
Speaker 1: take on the situation? Happy to do that just so
Speaker 1: that people who are students of Alan SHIPNK cell phone troubles. No,
Speaker 1: what was the height from which you dropped your cell
Speaker 1: phone at the two thousand eighteen Writer Cup in Paris.
Speaker 1: I think you were in a bleacher and maybe it
Speaker 1: dropped from a bleacher. I'm not sure what happened, but
Speaker 1: I know you were. There was cell phone lack of
Speaker 1: cell phone frenzy that week too. Yeah, so this was
Speaker 1: of course that that was a freighted writer cut because
Speaker 1: I had made the prediction that the US was gonna
Speaker 1: embark on this long term dominance and all of Europe
Speaker 1: paid in me already, and so it was already a
Speaker 1: week where I needed my phone. I loved day you Allen,
Speaker 1: I would differ right correct, It's all part of the fun.
Speaker 1: But it was the opening match that, you know, Friday morning,
Speaker 1: and me and some of our former golf dot Com
Speaker 1: colleagues were up in the bleachers and it was like whatever,
Speaker 1: thirty people and it was totally nuts and like the
Speaker 1: first few shots that rider kept have been hit. And
Speaker 1: I don't know if Dylan the chair your standing you
Speaker 1: kind of bumped me. I don't know, something happened. I
Speaker 1: dropped my phone. It felt about twelve feet and landed
Speaker 1: face down on pavement and it was like, you know,
Speaker 1: you're just afraid to turn it over, and it was
Speaker 1: just completely spider webbed and unusable. I did find a
Speaker 1: place in Paris was open late that night and they
Speaker 1: gave me a new screen. So I was really only
Speaker 1: had a commission for one day. But yeah, I love
Speaker 1: Slash hates self. I will guess on the French don't
Speaker 1: take kindly to up upset Americans who desperately need their
Speaker 1: cell phone fixed. Not long. Yeah, yeah, So the guy
Speaker 1: said he needed an I was like, great, I'll go
Speaker 1: have dinner and actually I had the Well that just
Speaker 1: not enough for a puppet. Did you already revealing yourself
Speaker 1: to be. I'm not saying you are the vulgar American
Speaker 1: you would be to get into the soup class. Well,
Speaker 1: in that whole week of logistics, I went up on
Speaker 1: a bus that I went to the wrong place. It
Speaker 1: was it was a mess but so yeah, I came
Speaker 1: back after dinner and he wasn't done, and it was
Speaker 1: a long dinner, it was probably almost two hours, and
Speaker 1: I just looked at him blankly, like I was bereft
Speaker 1: of any emotion at that point, and I just said,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna sit here and wait, which I think
Speaker 1: was also in front that smart quite quickly googling bereft
Speaker 1: real quick, and then I will come back and have
Speaker 1: some Ryan, have you ever been to France? Uh the
Speaker 1: McDonald's milk shakes there. I swear to god, they're like
Speaker 1: a shot class. They're so small. It's a joke. Alan
Speaker 1: I thought it was bizarre. I imagine that that and
Speaker 1: number one emphasized imagine I don't know, I can't pretend
Speaker 1: to know. It goes through Phil's mind. I imagine, you know,
Speaker 1: he's over there in Saudi Arabia. He's dealing with crown
Speaker 1: Prince and this guy and that not crown prints but
Speaker 1: all level of royalty. And he's like, uh, I never
Speaker 1: talked to the guy. I never what you talked to him? Well,
Speaker 1: I never got interviewed by the guy. So now he's
Speaker 1: doubling down and what he's already been saying all along there,
Speaker 1: he's looking for cover, as you know, as as somebody
Speaker 1: else not I observed. Uh, if you were collecting a
Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of dollars from these people and you
Speaker 1: were in their country and you know what they've done
Speaker 1: to Jamal Kashogi, Yeah, you're gonna be pretty careful what
Speaker 1: you say. Um, I think you know it's upsetting actually
Speaker 1: because he must know on some level it's disingenuous. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: it's too clever by half, as we said in a headline,
Speaker 1: And um, you know it's any big deal in the
Speaker 1: grand scheme of things. Uh No, but it just it
Speaker 1: leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and and it
Speaker 1: kind of does remind me. I mean, I'm really sort
Speaker 1: of going up. Let's get back to the main thread
Speaker 1: here in just one second. But Phil one that now,
Speaker 1: let's help me with the order. Al what came first? Uh?
Speaker 1: The Kia win or Phil going in the booth at
Speaker 1: at Harding Park. Harding was August of two thousand twenty.
Speaker 1: Kio would have been May of one. Okay, well, so
Speaker 1: I mean, let's forget about the winning the PGA Championship
Speaker 1: at age fifty, which is a remarkable achievement with you know,
Speaker 1: Brooks Skeptica breathing down your neck. But he went in
Speaker 1: that booth and he showed what kind of talker he
Speaker 1: can be. He could have been the most entertaining golfer
Speaker 1: in the history of golf talking. So you know what
Speaker 1: he is capable of. I mean, he's a very bright person,
Speaker 1: he's a very verbal person, and he's very knowledgeable about golf.
Speaker 1: So for him to willfully use six words or whatever
Speaker 1: it was, to willfully distort the city situation and make
Speaker 1: it worse or helped his own cause, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it's off putting to me. Yeah, and it's also it's
Speaker 1: bad pr because given the point that question was trying
Speaker 1: to say something nice about the Saudi people. Instead he
Speaker 1: created basically a two day news cycle about how disingenuous
Speaker 1: he is. And reluctantly I had to I had to
Speaker 1: get back on Twitter and you know, defend myself and
Speaker 1: and point out all of the Micholsonian bullshittery that you
Speaker 1: know that was had been hangs over this whole situation,
Speaker 1: and people had to weigh in about Phil. You know,
Speaker 1: Brandal Shamblee had some very um strong and and and
Speaker 1: accurate things to say about about Phil's lack of honesty,
Speaker 1: and um, you know again the whole point of that
Speaker 1: question and that press conference was just spread some good
Speaker 1: will about Saudi Arabia and live golf. Instead, film made
Speaker 1: it all about himself and it forced us to re examine,
Speaker 1: you know, how duplicitous he can be. So it was
Speaker 1: just like, not only was it was it inaccurate and
Speaker 1: with lame, but it was self defeating because he made
Speaker 1: himself the story again and he made he brought those
Speaker 1: he dreads those comments up again. It was like it
Speaker 1: was how not to conduct a press conference one oh one,
Speaker 1: you know, And of course can you imagine Tiger in
Speaker 1: a million years, Like you know, when the Haney book
Speaker 1: came out and he disliked it so much, he did
Speaker 1: everything in his power to make sure that the words
Speaker 1: Hank Kenies book never came out of his mouth. So
Speaker 1: to your point out pardon me, he did the exact
Speaker 1: exact opposite here. But just you know, I hadn't thought
Speaker 1: about this until until just now. The fact is he
Speaker 1: said to you, you know, regarding the Saudi regime, they're
Speaker 1: scary motherfucker's and now he's in their country well, they
Speaker 1: are scary motherfucker's. By the way, I'm sure we have
Speaker 1: scary motherfucker's. Uh you not to keep using a profane,
Speaker 1: really distasteful uh phrase. Uh, but now he's gonna do
Speaker 1: whatever he can to run from it. Why not just
Speaker 1: own it or not even bothers? As you say? So, well,
Speaker 1: have I have a really funny story. I was gonna
Speaker 1: say this from my book I'm writing about all this,
Speaker 1: but it's too good not to share. The Um the
Speaker 1: number two guy at the Public Investment Fund, you know,
Speaker 1: who's basically floating um this entire live golf and he's
Speaker 1: very hands on. His name is Magic. And I went
Speaker 1: up and talk to him at at live bed minister.
Speaker 1: You know, I really want to do an interview with him,
Speaker 1: and he, uh, he shook my hand. He said, oh, yes,
Speaker 1: I know you, he said. You know when the quotes
Speaker 1: came out, I called Phil and I said, Phil, I'm
Speaker 1: the only sound he guy you've ever talked to. Am
Speaker 1: I really that's scary, And I mean he he was
Speaker 1: very disarming and very charming and uh you know that
Speaker 1: he showed some grace and that like that's that was
Speaker 1: well played by him. And um so anyway that that
Speaker 1: really makes me laugh. Ryan, you said your mom is
Speaker 1: reading the philm book. So, um, you know we're all
Speaker 1: way too close to this. But she's she's a golf fan,
Speaker 1: but she's she's not she's not on the beat like
Speaker 1: the rest of us. What what is her impression of
Speaker 1: Phil Michelson now that she's you know, pretty much read
Speaker 1: the whole book. I'm just curious. Yeah, my mom, My
Speaker 1: mom is a very was a very big you know,
Speaker 1: el fan end of story, like a lot of people.
Speaker 1: And her exact words, I think I text him to you,
Speaker 1: you know in the group chat, was you know, it
Speaker 1: really pulls on my heart strings. And and and my
Speaker 1: mom is very verbal and and very in touch with
Speaker 1: her feelings. She just said, you know, I feel like
Speaker 1: I've been fooled for a long time. Um. And then
Speaker 1: you know, she said, the book has many nice things,
Speaker 1: but you you have we have seen the other side,
Speaker 1: and so you question even the good things, you know.
Speaker 1: And uh and and I mean back to your point, guys,
Speaker 1: I just don't get pr people. And if someone told
Speaker 1: Phil to say that, or Phil just did it on
Speaker 1: his own, Um, I just I don't understand it. I
Speaker 1: mean Harold Varner has that the least amount of crap
Speaker 1: taken because he just put out a statement that he
Speaker 1: was going there for the money, end of story. Like
Speaker 1: if Phil just came out and said, yeah, I said it,
Speaker 1: I was scared and I was a out of money
Speaker 1: or whatever the reason was that he was going this
Speaker 1: would all have been gone over. And now, like you said,
Speaker 1: he's brought it up again. I just I don't understand
Speaker 1: why he does it to himself, Like like you said, Alan,
Speaker 1: it was a simple question. It had nothing to do
Speaker 1: with you. He loses the pr battle because then he
Speaker 1: has to come back and say to Bob Herring like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't mean it like that. I meant it that
Speaker 1: you know it was off the record. We're just gonna
Speaker 1: have to disagree. I just I just don't understand in it.
Speaker 1: And it feels like this is hard to say on
Speaker 1: one statement. Feels like he didn't learn anything from what
Speaker 1: he's gone through, Like just like you made a mistake,
Speaker 1: he made a terrible Mistakelyle, how do you how did
Speaker 1: you learn from it? And it just it's kind of
Speaker 1: mind boggling to to put himself in that position. It
Speaker 1: really is. Yeah, that's well said, Um here's what I'll
Speaker 1: say about do you want to talk more about Phil?
Speaker 1: But I will say, I don't know. Did you guys
Speaker 1: watch any live golf this weekend? You know, I never
Speaker 1: I never watched the live stream. I am curious. I
Speaker 1: check out. I click on the scores because I'm probably
Speaker 1: morensted than most people. And um, oh, this is a
Speaker 1: good segue. I mean, Brooks kept go one that the
Speaker 1: tournament over there in Jetta, and so this was interesting.
Speaker 1: I put a question. I posed a question on Twitter
Speaker 1: this morning, and I just said, you know, this is
Speaker 1: a this is a future Hall of Famer. He's had
Speaker 1: all kinds of injury and other issues for two years.
Speaker 1: He finally wins again. He's found his game. Like this
Speaker 1: should be a huge deal, Like this should be a
Speaker 1: big story. And I said, you know, to you the
Speaker 1: golf fan out there, like how much significance to you
Speaker 1: assign to this Keptica win? And it's over two thousand
Speaker 1: comments in a matter of a few hours, and I've
Speaker 1: scrolled through most of them and the overwhelming majority of
Speaker 1: people have said zero, less than zero, none at all.
Speaker 1: And it really, you know, it's sad for Brooks because
Speaker 1: if he did this at a PGA Tourphet, it would
Speaker 1: be it would be really celebrated, like the return of
Speaker 1: the King. And this guy was the most dominant player
Speaker 1: in golf for a couple of years. And he stared
Speaker 1: down tip the Great Tiger Woods at the PGA, and
Speaker 1: and he beat dust and head to head at Best Page,
Speaker 1: and he chard Shinnecock Hills. I mean, these are back
Speaker 1: to back US opens like that is a solid gold resume.
Speaker 1: He's obviously got this weird kind of brooding charisma. I mean,
Speaker 1: how Brooks kept back as at the top of the
Speaker 1: game is huge for golf in an in an alternate universe.
Speaker 1: But the utter lack of apathy out there from from
Speaker 1: golf fans was was quite stark. Well, that's because they
Speaker 1: know what Brooks kept going knows, which is fifty or
Speaker 1: four holes, easy course, forty eight players, no cut is
Speaker 1: not the same thing. I mean, we don't know Tiger's
Speaker 1: true state of mind ever about anything. But we've watched Tiger,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, and for well, I have since
Speaker 1: since he was a teenager. He's a he's a super
Speaker 1: realist and he has to know that that two thousand
Speaker 1: nineteen Masters it was a great, great victory. Any victory
Speaker 1: is you know, played honestly, is a great victory. But
Speaker 1: it was handed to him. He must know it. Uh.
Speaker 1: And he was choking like a dog when he played eighteen.
Speaker 1: So what can Brooks kept even say about him self
Speaker 1: fifty four holes? Uh? In that situation, that's not tournament golf,
Speaker 1: as your two thousand people who respond to today do it.
Speaker 1: So if if you were in the business of awarding
Speaker 1: points to it, it's something. I'm not saying it's nothing.
Speaker 1: Of course it's something, But what is it really? I
Speaker 1: wouldn't even know how to begin to judge it. What's
Speaker 1: your friend? Yeah? Yeah, I mean agreed. Uh. Two things
Speaker 1: I watched ten shots, um and and two things struck me.
Speaker 1: One and I mean this very honestly. Zero fans. And
Speaker 1: I don't mean like there was a hundred fans. I
Speaker 1: mean zero fans, which was stunning. It is their home country.
Speaker 1: I just assumed that the fairways would be lined by
Speaker 1: everyone just saying you have to get out there. I
Speaker 1: mean I don't mean, I don't mean I'm talking zero
Speaker 1: fucking fans. I mean zero, like players not raising their
Speaker 1: hand to anyone. There was no one there it was unreal, unreal. Uh.
Speaker 1: And the second thing is like what has hit me
Speaker 1: is that leaderboard was really good and no one cared.
Speaker 1: That leaderboard had Sergio uh Dj, Joaquin Neman, Matt wolf
Speaker 1: Brooks Kepka A two things one, no one cared and
Speaker 1: be thirty six months ago or twenty four months ago,
Speaker 1: No one in a million years would have thought that
Speaker 1: that leaderboard would be on any other tour besides the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour or some affiliation of PGA Tour, Major or European.
Speaker 1: It is wild time in golf. I mean, that is
Speaker 1: a really good leaderboard. If that leaderboard was at the
Speaker 1: Sanderson Farms, people would be freaking the funk out, I
Speaker 1: mean freaking out. And no one cared. Like in general,
Speaker 1: you know, all one cares. It's it's it's a wild thing.
Speaker 1: And I don't know how live overcomes that. I just don't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's there. That's clearly their challenges. And Michael's made this
Speaker 1: point before. The fans don't care about the money. If anything,
Speaker 1: it's off putting, and so that's what they're hanging their
Speaker 1: hat on. You know, oh these huge, these huge numbers,
Speaker 1: but um, I don't know that that's a fundamental question
Speaker 1: for them going forward. But I will say I probably
Speaker 1: give it a little more credence because I've been at
Speaker 1: these live events and the guys are playing hard. I mean,
Speaker 1: there is a certain energy out there, so I mean
Speaker 1: for Brooks to get it done, and you're right, it
Speaker 1: was not It was not Oakmont, but there was there
Speaker 1: was winds were blowing hard. For everything I've I've read
Speaker 1: and all the highlights I've watched, and you know, he
Speaker 1: had to play some golf to win it. So it
Speaker 1: just again, we're not gonna until we get to Augusta.
Speaker 1: What about means? But when we bring all these players
Speaker 1: together and we have a measuring stick, that's accepted. Um.
Speaker 1: But you know, at the same time, I mean, he's
Speaker 1: the lift stuff is inescapable because over on the European
Speaker 1: Tour at Valderrama, which is really one of the best
Speaker 1: courses that they play, UM, Adrian Utegi won the the
Speaker 1: Andalucia Masters, pretty big, you know, pretty nice event on
Speaker 1: the European Tour. Now he is been traveling on two
Speaker 1: passports this whole time. This guy played the first three
Speaker 1: live events, but the European Tour, you know it's gonna
Speaker 1: get it's gonna there's this court case going on. Are
Speaker 1: are they going to be allowed our live players gonna
Speaker 1: allowed play on the European Tour. Let's not getting hurt
Speaker 1: until February. So in this interim, the live players are
Speaker 1: able to compete on the European Tour, and and and
Speaker 1: so a Teggi has has basically after three live events,
Speaker 1: has gone back to the European toris played there. I
Speaker 1: think this was a ninth event since the summer, and
Speaker 1: he wins his fourth for a fourth time on the
Speaker 1: European Tour. He's a very legit player and so, um,
Speaker 1: you know, the courts, I guess we'll decide his future.
Speaker 1: But he's been double dipping, which I guess, more power
Speaker 1: to you if you can get away with it. But um,
Speaker 1: of course that's the nightmare scenario. And the European Tour
Speaker 1: gave him very little coverage even on their own website.
Speaker 1: Um you know, in the end, what would be his
Speaker 1: status for the ryder cut down? Well again, that's that's
Speaker 1: gonna be decided by this court case because he's clearly
Speaker 1: still a tour member. He's still filling his obligations of
Speaker 1: playing the minimum number of events. And you know that
Speaker 1: that's also under under judicial review, So we don't know
Speaker 1: he's but now only he's in the top six now
Speaker 1: among them the automatic qualifiers. I mean, he's he's in
Speaker 1: the mix without a doubt, but we don't know what
Speaker 1: it means. So he got world ranking points, he got
Speaker 1: the money, he got the exemptions, and it gives you know,
Speaker 1: it gives him a strong position depending on how this
Speaker 1: this court case is resolved. I wonder how Live feels
Speaker 1: about him playing on the European Tour, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: they're very much like everybody against us against the world.
Speaker 1: Yeah but yeah, but but Ryan, that's a great question, Ryan,
Speaker 1: But I would say, just on instinct a loan, if
Speaker 1: a player can play his way into the Master's field
Speaker 1: on world ranking points alone and make things awkward for Augusta,
Speaker 1: they would welcome that. Yeah. And again, and his status
Speaker 1: going forward with Live is unclear because he played the
Speaker 1: first three events and none since he's not listed in
Speaker 1: the field for the big season finale at Trump Darral So, um,
Speaker 1: you know, who knows what's going on by the seas
Speaker 1: I was trying to get some answers and no one
Speaker 1: would tell me what his status is for the future.
Speaker 1: So this guy, if the court case goes against him,
Speaker 1: he could be a no man's land where you know
Speaker 1: he's he's he's burn his bridges that live for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: He's he's barred from the European Tour and he's always
Speaker 1: have Asia. Um, but you know it's like this is
Speaker 1: a high stakes gambell and um, it's gonna be fascinating
Speaker 1: to watch a play out. So uh, that is that
Speaker 1: drell Field only open to guys who have played all
Speaker 1: the live events or are there some guys who have not? No? No,
Speaker 1: because people have come online at different times. You know
Speaker 1: camp Smith doesn't play them all, but he'll he'll go right. Um,
Speaker 1: you know there's this whole year debt a test for
Speaker 1: live and everything's just one of their people told me, like,
Speaker 1: you know, we're flying the plane as we've builded around us,
Speaker 1: and so, um, you know what we'll see how that
Speaker 1: that final field shakes out. This is my Michael knows
Speaker 1: who's in the field. He's got his Gleaks T shirt
Speaker 1: on underneath that fucking button up. We all know you
Speaker 1: are a huge Gleeks fan, Michael. Is that is that
Speaker 1: what they're called the gleaks doesn't want to call the
Speaker 1: Cleeks to see not a g MY team is the
Speaker 1: Niblix running? I think you know that. I apologize to
Speaker 1: the Saudi Prince for calling them gleeks. Definitely, that would
Speaker 1: honestly be better, like they gotta go. You know, the
Speaker 1: names are are so silly, like the Merchant, the merchant
Speaker 1: on that would be off the charts. Could you imagine, like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, that's your best idea? Yeah? Um, shout
Speaker 1: out of an odd kind to our colleague and friend,
Speaker 1: Bob Harrick, probably the only reporter who has been to
Speaker 1: all the live events so far. Would that be correct?
Speaker 1: On he um? I think he skipped, he sipped, he went. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was so Bob and I had a lot of correspondence.
Speaker 1: You know, I like Bob. He's such a good person
Speaker 1: and he you know, he had his book. He had
Speaker 1: this Tiger Phil book that came out right around the
Speaker 1: time of mine, and um, whatever there was, there's always
Speaker 1: like a little rivalry or spiciness there. But Bob's been
Speaker 1: He's a dogged reporter. He's done a great job with
Speaker 1: all the live stuff, and you know, credit to him.
Speaker 1: He like he tracked down field in the next day
Speaker 1: and he got he got those quotes that kind of
Speaker 1: semi clarified the whole thing about his comments over there
Speaker 1: about me. So yeah, um, no, I think I believe
Speaker 1: Bob skipped one of the domestic events, either Chicago or
Speaker 1: um I think it was Chicago, but I think that's
Speaker 1: the only one. But yeah, he was in. He was
Speaker 1: in in Thailand, and he was in he was in
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia. So I'll be you know. I I texted him,
Speaker 1: I was like, how was going over there? Because the
Speaker 1: whole question and I thought really long and hard about
Speaker 1: making that trip was what kind of access would there be?
Speaker 1: And my frustration, you know, I I covered, I covered
Speaker 1: the first three live events and then I went and
Speaker 1: then I went to Chicago. But my frustration has been
Speaker 1: institutionally they're shutting guys down who won't speak like I've
Speaker 1: had a number of people say to me face to
Speaker 1: face early in the season, Yea'll sit down with you, Yeah,
Speaker 1: do your podcast, Yeah, I'll talk to you. And they
Speaker 1: come back and like, oh, it's not a good time, Like, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe at the end of the year. And so I
Speaker 1: finally went to some of the lift folks is like
Speaker 1: what the hell? And they're like, yeah, we're kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, trying to we just want to get through
Speaker 1: this season and we're just trying to turn the temperature
Speaker 1: down on things. So they basically there's been this chilling
Speaker 1: effect that's come from the Executive Committee and whoever else,
Speaker 1: And so for me to go to the tournaments, I
Speaker 1: can't do interviews. It doesn't make any sense. So I
Speaker 1: kind of stopped going, Um, are you going to draw? No,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to drought because that's the week of
Speaker 1: the Uncle Tony Invitational in Banning Dunes. And again I
Speaker 1: thought really hard about it, because you know, I had
Speaker 1: had some interactions with Trump when they're at Bedminster, and
Speaker 1: he's part of he's gonna be part of this book,
Speaker 1: and um, it is the season finale. But again, if
Speaker 1: I can't do one on one interviews, um, you know
Speaker 1: I can. I can watch highlights and I can read
Speaker 1: the press conference transcript. I've been told that things are
Speaker 1: gonna loosen up once they get through this first season. So, um,
Speaker 1: you know seriously that the concert that they're going to
Speaker 1: put on is fire. I mean fire. They are spending
Speaker 1: more on concerts then they are on Brooks Kepka, they
Speaker 1: have Snoop Dogg, Trevis Scott, Michael, Trevis Scott, yes or no, no?
Speaker 1: Who he is? Michael real quick sidebar. Michael and I
Speaker 1: are driving to the h Did I tell this already
Speaker 1: on this podcast? I don't think driving to Philadelphia, Michael says,
Speaker 1: tell me some songs that to find you. And we
Speaker 1: listened to Eminem, Michael Bamberger and me jamming out to
Speaker 1: to Eminem. But Travis Scott, uh, Snoop Dogg and the
Speaker 1: Chain Smokers. I mean I literally put out a tweet
Speaker 1: that replied to them announcing it. Can I just go
Speaker 1: to the lot of people do that? I mean, so
Speaker 1: I've I've you know, I've been at these events and
Speaker 1: there's the golf crowd. As the golf crowd is filing out,
Speaker 1: people start coming in for the concerts and a lot
Speaker 1: of good look at people dressed really nice you know,
Speaker 1: nice cars. It's like a completely different crowd on some
Speaker 1: people stay on, but there's definitely folks who are coming
Speaker 1: just for the concert. So you can you can get
Speaker 1: away with that, Ryan for sure. Maybe that's maybe that's
Speaker 1: how they're making a little bit of this money back,
Speaker 1: is they're having to. I mean, I don't. I would
Speaker 1: not even begin to know how much you know Snoop
Speaker 1: Dogg and Travis Scott more, especially because he's just a
Speaker 1: little more mainstream now, Like you have to pay them
Speaker 1: in order to get them to play at your event.
Speaker 1: I mean it has to be in the seven digits,
Speaker 1: would be my guess. Uh or in the high signal.
Speaker 1: Do they charge a separate admission fee or does that
Speaker 1: part of your golf package? I don't know, that's that's
Speaker 1: a better question for him. I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I've never seen just the concert advertise, but I think
Speaker 1: what happens is you buy the golf ticket and you
Speaker 1: just go only to the concert. In other words, you know,
Speaker 1: so you're paying use the discount codes and you can
Speaker 1: get your your day of golf for fifty or seventy
Speaker 1: five dollars, but in fact, all you're doing is going
Speaker 1: to the concert, which is still achieve him and to
Speaker 1: go to you know, if that was a the you know,
Speaker 1: Levi Stadium in San Francisco, that ticket would be three
Speaker 1: hundred dollars so for that concert, So yeah, you could
Speaker 1: definitely use use not five and you're going to Travis
Speaker 1: Scott for like sixty eight bucks. And uh, speaking of
Speaker 1: Kevin Na, how about Kevin Nah having the flu withdrawing
Speaker 1: and shaking everybody's hand, It's great, Hold in the hell
Speaker 1: is he doing? Like, oh I got the flu, guys,
Speaker 1: I don't really feel good and then shaking everybody's hand
Speaker 1: and leaping. I think you make a very good point
Speaker 1: about Eminem and Travis Hill, you know, playing this playing
Speaker 1: this golf tournament, because to me, that dovetails with what
Speaker 1: I've thought all along, which is I think this is
Speaker 1: a Saudi effort to look western, to look mainstream, and
Speaker 1: to look like something they haven't looked like for the
Speaker 1: last you know, ten thousand or so years. Uh, And
Speaker 1: I think it's very effective. And I think when people say,
Speaker 1: you know, oh, they're gonna get tired of losing money,
Speaker 1: I don't think they're gonna get tired of losing money,
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of money to be made in
Speaker 1: looking western. Mm hmm, yeah, I don't. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't disagree honestly, Like, I mean, it's a really good
Speaker 1: concert and people could who are would want to go
Speaker 1: to that concert, could care less where it comes from,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, right, Okay, so here here we are.
Speaker 1: It's like the weekend Golf. Nobody wants to live tournament,
Speaker 1: and yeah, we can't. We can't stop talking about live
Speaker 1: because it just it's it just blots out the sun.
Speaker 1: But there was a great tournament on the PGA Tour
Speaker 1: um as far as I don't know greats and overstatement,
Speaker 1: it was an interesting tournament on the pg Tour. They're
Speaker 1: over in Japan, the Zozo um. We had a Ricky
Speaker 1: Fowler siding. You know, he's fired his caddy, his coach
Speaker 1: of he's reinventing himself and he played great for fifty
Speaker 1: four holes, had the lead, he didn't get it quite
Speaker 1: across the line, but you know, second place finished. He
Speaker 1: had a t six earlier. It seems like Ricky Fowler
Speaker 1: is on the road to recovery, which you know, there's
Speaker 1: he's always been the butt of various jokes because he
Speaker 1: hasn't won that much given his station in the game
Speaker 1: and all the endorsements and everything. But it's hard to
Speaker 1: root against Ricky Fowler. I mean, he conducts himself with
Speaker 1: great class and dignity, and uh, he's very giving of
Speaker 1: his time and of himself, and I think everyone's happy
Speaker 1: to see Ricky Fowler back. But what was your guys
Speaker 1: take on on his performance. I like Ricky Fowler. I
Speaker 1: loved the way plays. I love the way that, you know,
Speaker 1: the speed and the lightness of his he's lighting on
Speaker 1: his feet, and uh, I find him very pleasant to
Speaker 1: talk to you. Uh, but fifty four holes it's not
Speaker 1: so needy to and uh that you know, the last
Speaker 1: time he was in contention when Rory one in Vegas,
Speaker 1: that would probably be went well over a year ago. Now, Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it's the same kind of thing. He played
Speaker 1: some really good golf through about sixty seven holes. But
Speaker 1: you know, for those of us who grew up on
Speaker 1: seventy two hold straternament golf, just as fans, I'm saying planet,
Speaker 1: uh seventy two holes or something about it. So if
Speaker 1: you really are back first off, you're winning, and if
Speaker 1: you're not winning, you're playing off. If you're not playing off,
Speaker 1: you're there through seventy two holes. So uh, there must
Speaker 1: still be things that are are very much wrong. The
Speaker 1: swing has always been sort of funky, you know. Uh,
Speaker 1: I don't really know. I would I'd be rooting for
Speaker 1: him too. I think it's it's admirable because to see
Speaker 1: what he's doing, because it does take a lot of
Speaker 1: work to get to where he is. I imagine that
Speaker 1: that it does. And uh, I would think he's got
Speaker 1: a lot of money in the bank and not a
Speaker 1: lot of incentive except for the desired to play good golf.
Speaker 1: That would be my that would be my guests really
Speaker 1: really from Afar. I I have never been a huge
Speaker 1: Ricky follower Fowler fan, but it kind of changed. I
Speaker 1: think it was two years ago at the US Open qualifier.
Speaker 1: UM he was in a second alternate playoff and it
Speaker 1: was like ten for two and it was held the
Speaker 1: next morning. There's literally no reason that Ricky followers should
Speaker 1: have showed up like zero, I mean just zero hey
Speaker 1: that he went to the qualifier and be that he
Speaker 1: thought enough to like show up for the second alternate
Speaker 1: playoff and it was like mad respected dude showed up,
Speaker 1: talk to people. A guy actually dunked it from the
Speaker 1: fairway on the first playoff hole to end it pretty quickly,
Speaker 1: and like mad respect he obviously I think it was
Speaker 1: pretty well rumored. You guys are better and in the
Speaker 1: know on this more that he was at least offered
Speaker 1: and could have gone to live. I think it was
Speaker 1: kind of a like, pretty obvious person to go after
Speaker 1: a very popular or not playing well in danger of
Speaker 1: even losing his status. It would have seemed like an
Speaker 1: easy out for Ricky at that point, and he didn't go,
Speaker 1: and now he's scrambling back. I mean, he just doesn't.
Speaker 1: Like Michael said, he doesn't. I'm sure he doesn't need
Speaker 1: the money. Uh, and so mad respect for him to
Speaker 1: to come back and do this. I agree, Michael, obviously
Speaker 1: not all the way back, but I mean help he
Speaker 1: basically lost his card last year, so the second place
Speaker 1: finish will go a long way and just keeping his
Speaker 1: card so we can continue this this quote unquote comeback.
Speaker 1: But uh, I mean in the fall, the fall events
Speaker 1: have been pretty good. I'm indifferent about Keijian Bradley, but
Speaker 1: uh uh Thagala was in the top ten, Hoveland in
Speaker 1: the top ten, Saner in the top ten. Obviously not
Speaker 1: many people here really cared about it, just because of
Speaker 1: the time difference. Um, but another good fall event for
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour at a time they obviously need him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I actually I love Keikan Bradley. He's always
Speaker 1: be one when I go to guys like he's he's
Speaker 1: a great quote, he's very funny, he's very smart, and
Speaker 1: he's he's not afraid to say things. So I was.
Speaker 1: I was happy for him, you know, first win since
Speaker 1: two thousand and eighteen, and you know, you forget that
Speaker 1: guy's a major championship winner. He was. He was a
Speaker 1: Wryder Cup monster there for a couple of years and
Speaker 1: he still has a lot of golf in front of him.
Speaker 1: So um, and there's something compelling. It's actually we mentioned
Speaker 1: Kevin Nah. I was. It's a little bit like watching
Speaker 1: Kevin nah. You know, there's you can see the angel
Speaker 1: and the demon on their shoulders out there. You know,
Speaker 1: Keegan so fidgety, it so nervous, and um, just the
Speaker 1: weight of it all shows the strain. And that's why
Speaker 1: I think it's fun to watch him. I know, his
Speaker 1: his ordinate preshot routine is a bit much and can
Speaker 1: iss not great TV, but there's something about that to me,
Speaker 1: like it builds the tension and I don't want to
Speaker 1: watch it every week, but when he's in contention once
Speaker 1: or twice a year and you can you can see
Speaker 1: his discomfort, it's it's so palpable There's something about that
Speaker 1: that I find very compelling, even as it is a
Speaker 1: little maddening point of live versus. Everything always ends up
Speaker 1: as live versus the PGA tour. But um, Keegan uh
Speaker 1: did an interview. I think he was facetiming his wife
Speaker 1: and the tour recorded it. I mean he was bawling,
Speaker 1: couldn't get through couldn't get through it. And then flash
Speaker 1: back to the live interview with Brooks and the guy.
Speaker 1: I mean, they have to stop this, they have to
Speaker 1: stop the propaganda. It really is ridiculous. The guy led
Speaker 1: the question with I know you've won majors, but this
Speaker 1: has to be a big moment in your career. I'm
Speaker 1: like the Jetta uh whatever, this is called a big moment,
Speaker 1: and Brooks is like, you know, I mean Brooks is
Speaker 1: like yeah, huh, yep kind of. But I think you
Speaker 1: know Keegan's it's such I'm not a PGA tour lackey
Speaker 1: that for the people that are gonna say this, I've
Speaker 1: had my brawls with the PGA two. All of us
Speaker 1: have out more than me the other two on this thing,
Speaker 1: but like that, it means something to win. It is
Speaker 1: the struggle back, Like Kegan hasn't won in a long time. Uh.
Speaker 1: And to your point, and that's what Brooks's win should
Speaker 1: have been, like, it is a big point in golf
Speaker 1: that Brooks Kepta, at times one of the best golfers
Speaker 1: in the entire world, is back. And in his interview
Speaker 1: he said, uh, you know, I wasn't sure I was
Speaker 1: going to play again. There was a minute there that
Speaker 1: I wasn't ever going to see it up again. That
Speaker 1: should be a huge moment. Uh, And it just wasn't.
Speaker 1: And it was not not in the whole golf world,
Speaker 1: but takegan, it was a huge moment. And that's where
Speaker 1: I mean, it's back to the same point. I just
Speaker 1: don't know how lived builds that ever um with their
Speaker 1: current set up, because all of the guys are super rich,
Speaker 1: and I just don't I just don't understand it. If
Speaker 1: it's not a really big deal to the player himself
Speaker 1: to win, you know, how can we possibly expect it
Speaker 1: is for us. I mean, that's that's the starting point
Speaker 1: that the beauty of the majors is there's such a
Speaker 1: yin and yang going on with them. The players care
Speaker 1: a lot, therefore we care a lot. We care a lot,
Speaker 1: therefore the players care a lot, the sponsors care a lot,
Speaker 1: history cares a lot. It's all in one big stew
Speaker 1: and that's the beauty of them. And you know, as
Speaker 1: we've discussed, uh and Allen made this point last time
Speaker 1: we were together. It was a great point. You know,
Speaker 1: the major's will only become more important out of this
Speaker 1: and that that will be good for golf. Or maybe
Speaker 1: Ryan part of me if it was your point, but
Speaker 1: you know, and then the qualifiers for the Mayor no,
Speaker 1: I think it was now the uh, you know, the
Speaker 1: qualifiers for the US Opening, qualifiers for the British Open
Speaker 1: and uh and maybe the maybe the PHA Americle will
Speaker 1: have to develop a similar kind of qualifying system. But
Speaker 1: but that will sprinkle down, that will you know what,
Speaker 1: it will trickle down uh uh and and become more
Speaker 1: important as well. Um uh. You know I'm with young
Speaker 1: and Keithan Bradley. You know, the the emotion that he's
Speaker 1: brought to his golf all through his career has been
Speaker 1: it's I've I've rooted for him for that reason. I've
Speaker 1: also admired the fact that, you know, he spat like
Speaker 1: crazy and he got one he had one conversation. I
Speaker 1: don't know with whom one pre tour official let it
Speaker 1: was a bad look and he quit cold turkey and
Speaker 1: that is not you know, I'm not That's not an
Speaker 1: easy habit to quit. So I've always borrowed him for that,
Speaker 1: that one little who who quit tobacco. He used to
Speaker 1: chew tobacco. I don't know that he chewed. I think
Speaker 1: he just spat like crazy. Um, he's like a nervous tick. Yeah.
Speaker 1: During that a whole weird pre shot Thingjgan Bradley, Uh,
Speaker 1: Kegan Bradley wants um candid for Mark Baldwin at Q school.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine the downgrade of having me on the bank?
Speaker 1: How did that kind of want having their their friends?
Speaker 1: I cannot It's a very very good story that well
Speaker 1: leave for Mark Baldwin because I'm not sure how much
Speaker 1: I can tell and how much I cannot say. It's
Speaker 1: an amazing great story Mark and had to pick him
Speaker 1: up and he was not anyway, So it's a long story.
Speaker 1: It's Mark to tell. It's a great story and it
Speaker 1: needs to be told on a podcast. Okay, I'm flying
Speaker 1: that away for a future reference. Here's the deal, Alan,
Speaker 1: I refused to forget this. I have got to know
Speaker 1: the Australian story, like right now, the ten minutes to
Speaker 1: Australian story. Oh god, what was the context? And we
Speaker 1: were talking about like um, yeah, I don't even remember
Speaker 1: how it was. That just misadventures on the golf beat. Okay,
Speaker 1: so this is the deal. This is like or ninety
Speaker 1: nine it was. Remember Aaron Baddeley is an amateur, was
Speaker 1: an absolute legend, won the Australian Open. He was just
Speaker 1: one of the best teenage golfers of all times. So
Speaker 1: I want to go down and do a story. And
Speaker 1: you know back in those days, if you want the
Speaker 1: way to Australia like, you have to come up with
Speaker 1: another story. So kry Webb was also on Almighty tears,
Speaker 1: like I'll do Cary because we've never really done a
Speaker 1: big story and are great perfect. So I guess I
Speaker 1: had a cell phone, but it was like early days
Speaker 1: of cell phone email all that. So I went to
Speaker 1: an LPGA event and I talked to Carrie's mom, Evelyn,
Speaker 1: and I said, Okay, I'm going to the Australian Masters
Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna come up to Air and I
Speaker 1: want to spend some time with you because we in
Speaker 1: in car. I knew Cary was gonna be there at
Speaker 1: that time. She said, great, lovely, here's the home number. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I'll write it down in my book. I'll
Speaker 1: see you then. And so it was, and it was done.
Speaker 1: It was like, so I fly to Australia and obviously
Speaker 1: not a not a short trip. I go right to
Speaker 1: the Australian Masters and word is battle a just w
Speaker 1: dd Because he had like a horrible flu. I was like, damn,
Speaker 1: so bad luck whatever. I talked to other players about him,
Speaker 1: and when I watched some golf and but this is
Speaker 1: like he was in bed for days, and so his
Speaker 1: dad took me out. This parents felt terribly, took me
Speaker 1: all around and I met Aaron for seven seconds. He
Speaker 1: walked out of his room his underwear and like he
Speaker 1: pulled up Kevin Nah, shook my hand. He said, I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry, I'm sorry you came all this way. I
Speaker 1: have to go back to bed. And so literally I
Speaker 1: went to Australia to do air in Battle and only
Speaker 1: saw him for maybe nine seconds tops. And but I
Speaker 1: was still able to do a lot of good reporting. Um,
Speaker 1: and it turned out to be a good story because
Speaker 1: the people around him are excellent talkers, but that you
Speaker 1: know that happens sometimes. So then I go to Air,
Speaker 1: which is this tiny little town in the middle of nowhere,
Speaker 1: and um, I get to my hotel and I call,
Speaker 1: I call Evelyn and she says, oh goodness, gracious, Oh
Speaker 1: that's not going to work. I said, I'm sorry. What
Speaker 1: she said, yes, no, no, Car's not gonna be able
Speaker 1: to see you at all. I said, Um, I just
Speaker 1: flew here from California. It's really far away. We had
Speaker 1: already agreed on this, like she's yes, I'm terribly sorry.
Speaker 1: I should have ranged. But there's no way you can
Speaker 1: see Cary um at Carry had come home with a
Speaker 1: romantic partner and they did not want to be seen
Speaker 1: in public. And so I and so I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm here. I gotta write a story. So I was
Speaker 1: everywhere I'd go in town. I go to the dinner, Oh, Carr,
Speaker 1: he was just here. And I'd go to the Gulf cup.
Speaker 1: Oh did you see Carr? She just she just left.
Speaker 1: And if it was like a sign fell everywhere I went.
Speaker 1: I just missed Carry by ten minutes and m but
Speaker 1: and why was there? And of course again the parents
Speaker 1: felt bad. So they took me around and whatever, and um,
Speaker 1: there was this the one movie house in Air, which
Speaker 1: is actually where where Rob and Evelyn the parents had
Speaker 1: met when their little kids had had fallen and just
Speaker 1: repair and been shuttered. Carry had had bought it. They
Speaker 1: were reopening it. Rob and Evelyn were doing all the
Speaker 1: work themselves basically, and um, if you remember Carry's swing coach,
Speaker 1: he had been in a horrible accident. He was in
Speaker 1: a wheelchair. And so everyone again was very colorful. And
Speaker 1: I want up writing that story as like as a
Speaker 1: screenplay because of the movie connection, and it's one of
Speaker 1: the best things I've ever or done. Um. But so
Speaker 1: I went to Australia to do two features. Never never
Speaker 1: saw Cary and I saw Aaron Badley for one handshake
Speaker 1: and that was it. But I wrote two big gas features.
Speaker 1: And you have to be um, you have to be
Speaker 1: clever in this profession. But I mean, you talk about
Speaker 1: a disappointing trip. It worked out in the end. I
Speaker 1: liked those stories, but man, that was that was when
Speaker 1: when you went to that movie theater, it did it?
Speaker 1: Did it open up while you were there was planning?
Speaker 1: It was still um, And I think if I remember correctly.
Speaker 1: Rob had the father. Cary's father had a background in construction,
Speaker 1: so he was in there, you know, like working on
Speaker 1: it. It It was still kind of somewhat gutted, but um uh,
Speaker 1: you know they described it was it was a big
Speaker 1: deal in those days. It was like the only movie
Speaker 1: theater for hundreds of miles apparently, like and you know,
Speaker 1: you get dressed up and you'd go on the weekends
Speaker 1: and it was like a big deal. And so it
Speaker 1: was kind of cute that do you think that? Do
Speaker 1: you think the place is still open? How do you spell?
Speaker 1: Why are um? That's a good question. I wouldn't be
Speaker 1: able to I wouldn't be able to answer that. I
Speaker 1: haven't thought about it in a while. But Alan, what
Speaker 1: would you what would you do if if the family
Speaker 1: or the agent or somebody would have said to you,
Speaker 1: will make car available to you. You can write her up,
Speaker 1: but anything about her private life involving a romantic relationship
Speaker 1: is off limits. What what would you have said in
Speaker 1: that situation? Wow, that's a that's a tough one. I
Speaker 1: mean again, because I probably would have said yes because
Speaker 1: I was there and I would have liked to have
Speaker 1: spent some time with her and I think car is
Speaker 1: a very cool person, and um, you know her her
Speaker 1: romantic life was complicated, you know, and she showed up
Speaker 1: on the LPGA as this phenomen her her fiance was
Speaker 1: catting for her and they had a big acrimonious break up,
Speaker 1: and then I think her dating life went in different directions,
Speaker 1: and that was in the tabloids in Australia and whatever.
Speaker 1: So in the end I probably wasn't gonna write about
Speaker 1: it anyway. You know, Sports Illustrated in the nineties was
Speaker 1: pretty tight place, and it wasn't really that germane. I mean,
Speaker 1: of course it is because our romantic lives are a
Speaker 1: big part of who we are, and for athletes as well,
Speaker 1: and so um, I'm not sure I would have had
Speaker 1: the confidence back then to really get into it, especially
Speaker 1: since they didn't want me to and had made that clear.
Speaker 1: So another hand, I don't like people tell me what
Speaker 1: to do, so I probably I might have turned them down.
Speaker 1: I don't know. That's a tough one. The young, the
Speaker 1: young probably would have taken the deal. Yeah, no, I mean,
Speaker 1: And the reason, and this one surprised anybody. The reason
Speaker 1: asked the question is you know, one thing I think
Speaker 1: we've all seen in just like that little Phil exchange,
Speaker 1: is that people think that there were black and white
Speaker 1: rules for what we do, and really it's it's so
Speaker 1: on the margins and in the gray, and there is
Speaker 1: no right and wrong answer. Actually, you've got to feel
Speaker 1: your way through every situation and a lot of it
Speaker 1: has to do with with with trust and history or
Speaker 1: lack of trust and lack of history, and this case, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, there was no history. You know, you and
Speaker 1: Phil had a particular type of history, and um, you
Speaker 1: know in that affected how that whole thing went down.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know what Phil was thinking, but
Speaker 1: I know that you were thinking, I've been trying to
Speaker 1: reach this guy. Now he's finally called me and I'm
Speaker 1: using it. And you know, as I wrote, I think
Speaker 1: you were totally entitled to do that. Um, but people, uh,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that they should, but it, uh, it's
Speaker 1: hard for people to understand what these real life situations
Speaker 1: are like, Yeah, well that's well said. I mean, so
Speaker 1: much of our job is interpersonal. And Ryan you know
Speaker 1: this too, because your d M s and your text
Speaker 1: people tell you all kinds of crazy stuff all the time.
Speaker 1: Sometimes they're okay, if you use their names. Sometimes it
Speaker 1: has to be anonymous. Um. Sometimes you fact check it
Speaker 1: it turns out that it's it's not as as black
Speaker 1: and white as as they said. I mean, every situation
Speaker 1: is is kind of a compleat X in its own way,
Speaker 1: and you have to you have to just I mean,
Speaker 1: there there are rules and there's guidelines, but like I mean,
Speaker 1: it's very situational and you sort of have to follow
Speaker 1: your heart on these things. I mean, what is what
Speaker 1: is your thought on that? Ryan, Yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: can relate it. Obviously. You guys have tons and tons
Speaker 1: of more experience. But the Dustin Manning and I relationship
Speaker 1: is is kind of like that. Uh. You know, Dustin
Speaker 1: called me hundreds of times, I mean hundreds and hundreds
Speaker 1: of times and uh and told me stuff off the
Speaker 1: record on the record, and I have to find that
Speaker 1: balance of giving him respect because at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, I want the story, you know, I want
Speaker 1: him to feel comfortable enough to keep calling me right
Speaker 1: because I want the story. So it's just not as
Speaker 1: black and white like you know, he said, he would
Speaker 1: say things and then say, Ryan, I really meant that
Speaker 1: to be off the record, and I'm like, okay, you know,
Speaker 1: and I kind of have to find the balance of
Speaker 1: you know, do I let him go or do I
Speaker 1: not let him go? Or is that really off the record?
Speaker 1: And so I just navigated it on a like call
Speaker 1: the call basis, and uh, you know, it's you guys
Speaker 1: have dealt with it a hundred thousand more times than
Speaker 1: I have. It's just you just navigate it as you go.
Speaker 1: That relationship I just navigated on a call the call basis. Basically,
Speaker 1: Justin Manning is the guy who put up the Big
Speaker 1: Money Classic. He's a mini tour promoter operator who has
Speaker 1: a history of not paying his players. And Ryan has
Speaker 1: been chasing the story for a while and he's a
Speaker 1: very slippery character. Side note, the guy the guy that
Speaker 1: d M do you d M me? And I talked
Speaker 1: to him on the phone today and he says, uh,
Speaker 1: my wife signed up and lost three dozen think but
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get the money back. And I'm like, no, no,
Speaker 1: I do not. Yeah, I think you can. He told
Speaker 1: me that he was gonna pay one girl a month,
Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, he's not. He's not going
Speaker 1: to pay anybody, So I would I would write that
Speaker 1: off pretty quickly. Yeah, yeah, And I mean the off
Speaker 1: the record thing is is fascinating because again, if if
Speaker 1: someone says it and you agree to it, then that's
Speaker 1: that goes in a black box. And as I've said
Speaker 1: this previously, like the three most explosive things I know
Speaker 1: to be true about Phil mckinson are not in the book,
Speaker 1: and each of them would have been international news, like
Speaker 1: probably would have dwarfed the Saudi stuff in some ways.
Speaker 1: But they're not in the book because they were told
Speaker 1: to me off the record, and I always honor those agreements.
Speaker 1: But in the case of Phil, he never asked to
Speaker 1: go off the record. I never consented to it. Now
Speaker 1: people have said, do you do you think that he
Speaker 1: thought he was off the record. I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: know what Phil is thinking. I'm not a mind reader,
Speaker 1: and I'm not sure. When Phil picked up the phone
Speaker 1: to call me, he intended to tell me everything he
Speaker 1: told me, but it was a long emotional phone call
Speaker 1: and he was getting worked up and we were going
Speaker 1: back and forth. And that's someone say that's the art
Speaker 1: of interviewing is to keep getting people to tell you things,
Speaker 1: and he I would I didn't entrap him. You know,
Speaker 1: he was doing this. He called me. This was of
Speaker 1: his own free will. But once we're on the phone
Speaker 1: and he's going, I'm not going to stop him. And
Speaker 1: you know, I guess I could have said, Phil, are
Speaker 1: you sure you want to say that? You know, but
Speaker 1: he's a big boy. He's a very smooth operator when
Speaker 1: it comes to reporters, and he knew I was writing
Speaker 1: this freaking book about him. So if he's on a
Speaker 1: monologue that that's got a lot of heat to it,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to cut him off and and and
Speaker 1: say Phil, are you sure you want to say that? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's just not my role. I'm there to listen. And um,
Speaker 1: so did did he Did he say more than he
Speaker 1: intended to? It's possible, but um you know that's on him,
Speaker 1: not me. So uh, It's it's a fascinating it's a
Speaker 1: fascinating subject. It could probably you could probably fill up
Speaker 1: a whole a whole semester of journalist of school, like
Speaker 1: how this whole thing is played out. But ultimately, you know,
Speaker 1: as I just I go back to you, like you're saying, Michael,
Speaker 1: you have to follow your conscience, you have to follow
Speaker 1: your heart. Like I know that I've treated Phil very
Speaker 1: fairly and I know that when he called him he
Speaker 1: had an agenda, and since he never hasked to go
Speaker 1: off the record, like every words going in the book
Speaker 1: like that, that will just be always be my position
Speaker 1: on this. And as he said, we can, we're gonna
Speaker 1: have to agree and disagree. But um, Phil knows the truth.
Speaker 1: I know the truth, and um it's it's it's been
Speaker 1: quite a right ever since that phone call. Well, Jake, Uh,
Speaker 1: the easiest social clips you've ever had in your life.
Speaker 1: Those left minute and a half right there. Just chop
Speaker 1: that up and watch the downloads come in. Well, the
Speaker 1: second of all that you want to address, But loose
Speaker 1: Anger Stanger I think is his name. Uh, been very
Speaker 1: nice to me. Seems to me a nice guy. He's
Speaker 1: just hung up on the fact that Alan didn't record
Speaker 1: this phone conversation. And I will say only from my
Speaker 1: own experience that two people on this call will have
Speaker 1: a billion more experience than I do. If someone wants
Speaker 1: to talk, you just shut the funk up and let them.
Speaker 1: Michael Bamber told me that. And like, if I met
Speaker 1: a person that I want to talk to and he
Speaker 1: wants to talk on the record in an elevator, I'm
Speaker 1: not recording it. I'm just letting him talk. And uh,
Speaker 1: Dustin Manning used to call me all the time middle
Speaker 1: of the night on the record. I didn't go, hey Dustin,
Speaker 1: let me go downstairs and get on my computer so
Speaker 1: I can record this. And he's like just spelling beans
Speaker 1: that I want to hear. I'm just letting him talk. Uh,
Speaker 1: And so it's just yeah, yeah, that's all well said, Yeah,
Speaker 1: loose Tinger. He sent me dozens of d ms on
Speaker 1: the subjects. He's a very very interesting personality. But um,
Speaker 1: I like to record stuff in general when I can.
Speaker 1: This was a weird deal because I was driving on
Speaker 1: I five when Phil called me, and when he had
Speaker 1: originally texted me asking him to speak. I mean, he's
Speaker 1: he wanted to talk about meteorites and name image likeness
Speaker 1: issues and that sort of thing. That was a short
Speaker 1: text I got from and that's what his lawyer tried
Speaker 1: to sign me up as a consultant on, which of
Speaker 1: course I turned down because I was like glaring conflict
Speaker 1: of interest. So you know, I thought it was gonna
Speaker 1: be a boring conversation about, uh, you know, how the
Speaker 1: tours marketing its players. That was how it was kind
Speaker 1: of built to me, so, um, yeah, if I had
Speaker 1: known how incendiary was gonna be, I definitely would have
Speaker 1: recorded it. Just Also, the call dropped like three or
Speaker 1: four times because I was driving on I five, so
Speaker 1: we had to call each other back, and it was
Speaker 1: like it was just kind of a little messy from
Speaker 1: a tech standpoint. But just for the record, Jake Jake
Speaker 1: text me twenty minutes ago to rend Hey, Jake, No, no,
Speaker 1: we're not fucking wrapping it up. We might talk. What
Speaker 1: are you gonna say, Michael? What? Ran Lou Ankle? What?
Speaker 1: What about? I think he might be af Just just
Speaker 1: as a as a quick side note on the On
Speaker 1: the right before the PHA Championship, I was at a
Speaker 1: filling station right outside a Tulsa. The phone rang, and
Speaker 1: says caller unknown. I wasn't expecting any call, uh from
Speaker 1: anyone in particular, and it was it was Trump calling
Speaker 1: me directly with no intermediary. And Trump and I know
Speaker 1: each other well, though I hadn't talked to him for years,
Speaker 1: and I was interviewing him. I was definitely interviewing him.
Speaker 1: And but because he's comfortable with me, he was starting
Speaker 1: to talk about someone in a very personal way, and
Speaker 1: I just I said, you know, Mr President, and I
Speaker 1: just want to remind you that I'm interviewing you, so
Speaker 1: tell me stuff that I can use. And this I'm
Speaker 1: just giving this as a little illustration of real life stuff.
Speaker 1: And here's the guy who has been interviewed that was
Speaker 1: since and thousands of times and there's a response to that.
Speaker 1: So my so I said, you know, you know, give
Speaker 1: me stuff that I can that I can that I
Speaker 1: can use. You know, that's just sort of like real
Speaker 1: everyday language about how these things play out. And then
Speaker 1: Trump said, uh, well, you know you cleaned it up.
Speaker 1: You know, when I'm talking to a reporter, you know,
Speaker 1: I might just say something and you know, you just
Speaker 1: sort of clean up, you know. If I'm speaking in public,
Speaker 1: of course it's perfect. But anyway, but the point being
Speaker 1: is that people want these phrases like it's on the record,
Speaker 1: it's off the record. You use this, you can't use that.
Speaker 1: But the give and take of real life conversation, as
Speaker 1: you're finding out Ryan with with talking to Mr Manning
Speaker 1: um is just different. And I think what Phil forgot
Speaker 1: was that Alan's primary obligation is to tell readers what
Speaker 1: Phil Michelson's actually like and Phil was serving it up
Speaker 1: on a platter. What kind of reporter would allen by
Speaker 1: if he didn't use that? But for whatever reason, Phil
Speaker 1: forgot that or chose to forget that or didn't think
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, We don't know what he
Speaker 1: was thinking. And that's of course what's going on here.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we know he has some impulse control issues, right,
Speaker 1: Like that's been well documented. And he'd already said no
Speaker 1: to me three times, was much earlier. His agent had
Speaker 1: told him not to do it. But in the end
Speaker 1: he just couldn't help himself. He had to call and
Speaker 1: tell me how smart he was and out fox jam
Speaker 1: On and out fox Greg Norman, Like he just couldn't
Speaker 1: help it. Um, all right, well we are gonna follow
Speaker 1: the advice of Jake Bouldowney, our producer, who's gonna be
Speaker 1: a recurring character on this podcast. So the listeners will
Speaker 1: probably be interesting to know that Jake was a longtime
Speaker 1: caddy abandoned dunes and that's how we actually all got
Speaker 1: to know him at the Uncle Tony Invitational. And but
Speaker 1: he had a he had a he had a dream
Speaker 1: of being in the golf media. He has a gift
Speaker 1: for for a lot of the technical aspects. And so
Speaker 1: Jake produces this podcast, poor bastard, and he cuts all
Speaker 1: of our our socials and uh he's sometimes Danny's a
Speaker 1: Packers fan and and uh, it's been it's a tough
Speaker 1: scene I caught. I talked to Jake an hour before
Speaker 1: this and it was, I mean, full on depression, full
Speaker 1: on well, somewhat concerned for him, considered sending flowers. Uh,
Speaker 1: glad to see him on. I mean, it's it's a
Speaker 1: tough scene. I think all Packers fans are obsessives, but
Speaker 1: Jake is a kind of Packers fan who dresses his
Speaker 1: dogs and Packers jerseys. So he's he's the lunatic fringe
Speaker 1: of Packers fan. But anyway, and it's funny that he
Speaker 1: texted you to wrap it up. Not me, um, very interesting,
Speaker 1: noted um. All right, So this was a fire drill podcast.
Speaker 1: We will be doing these every Sunday more or less,
Speaker 1: and we appreciate you guys out there listening and sticking
Speaker 1: to the bitter end. Um. I think we should recognize
Speaker 1: our corporate sponsors, par Points, who have produced the most
Speaker 1: interesting golf scoring app available. It's kind of a freshing
Speaker 1: new way to play the game, and we would encourage
Speaker 1: you to download the app and test it out. It
Speaker 1: really is a adds a fun to mention UM and
Speaker 1: of course Dormy Workshop they make beautiful handcrafted leather goods
Speaker 1: for whether the head covers or any other little goodies
Speaker 1: that will improve your life in different ways. So and
Speaker 1: some of their collaborations with the Firepit can be found
Speaker 1: on our website and UM I would encourage you to
Speaker 1: check that out as well. So thanks, thanks for thanks
Speaker 1: for being letting us be in your ear, and for
Speaker 1: Ryan French and Michael Bamberger. This is Alan Schef. We
Speaker 1: will be back at it again next Sunday with another
Speaker 1: fire drill. That's it A bit big, played to win,
Speaker 1: made a fortune, win my ship game and I ran
Speaker 1: the table and never thought I could fall. Then the
Speaker 1: winter time hit me like a cannon the ball and
Speaker 1: now I can't shake this losing the street. Every road
Speaker 1: I take is a dead hand stream. I got thoughts
Speaker 1: in my head, can't you John nothing think what I'm
Speaker 1: thinking about about thoughts in my head? Can get him
Speaker 1: out and try and not to think what I'm thinking about.
Speaker 1: H