WEBVTT - Peter Navarro Talks Upcoming US, China Trade Talks

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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<v Speaker 2>We begin this hour with markets are looking ahead to

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<v Speaker 2>high stakes trade talks between the US and China and

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<v Speaker 2>Switzerland this weekend. Joining us now. Very pleased to say

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<v Speaker 2>Pin Navarro, the Director of the Office of Trade and

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<v Speaker 2>Manufacturing Policy at the White House, dot Donavaro, it's been

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<v Speaker 2>too long, sir. It's good to see you. Thanks for

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<v Speaker 2>being here.

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<v Speaker 3>Been a long time.

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<v Speaker 4>Joan, it is good to see you too, sir. Thank you, sir,

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<v Speaker 4>first class digs here, my friend.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm pleased we're looking after you. Let's kick it

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<v Speaker 2>off with these talks this weekend. We just heard from

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<v Speaker 2>the President just moments ago and he mentioned an eighty

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<v Speaker 2>percent tariff might be about right. It's up to the

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<v Speaker 2>Treasury Secretary. We understand you won't want to get ahead

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<v Speaker 2>of those negotiations, but I just wonder could you offer

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<v Speaker 2>some clarity on what about right means when the President

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<v Speaker 2>says eighty percent tariff on China seems right, seems right

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<v Speaker 2>for the talks this weekend, or seems right for the

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<v Speaker 2>foreseeable future. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>I was one of three people that was with the

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<v Speaker 4>White House the first term for all years. One of

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<v Speaker 4>the big reasons is I never got ahead of the president.

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<v Speaker 4>Let me tell you about Geneva, which is kind of

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<v Speaker 4>I've got a very warm memories. It was my finest

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<v Speaker 4>hour as a negotiator. I went there to lead the

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<v Speaker 4>negotiations for the United Postal Union reforms that essentially got

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<v Speaker 4>China rates fair to we say billions on that. But

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<v Speaker 4>I mentioned this because Geneva has symbolic value in this negotiation.

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<v Speaker 4>It is the headquarters.

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<v Speaker 3>Of the World Trade Organization.

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<v Speaker 4>And the scariest thing I ever saw in Geneva was

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<v Speaker 4>the size of the China delegation at the World Trade Organization.

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<v Speaker 4>And they've played the WTO like a fiddle.

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<v Speaker 3>So let's see what happens tomorrow.

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<v Speaker 4>I'd be happy to come back on Monday do the debrief,

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<v Speaker 4>but I don't want to get ahead of the Boss

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<v Speaker 4>or Scott Besting. And don't forget Scott's going with Jamison Greer,

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<v Speaker 4>the United States Trade Representative. He's the guy who learned

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<v Speaker 4>that the knee of Bob liteheis for the first time around,

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<v Speaker 4>was there for all the China stuff, and he's the

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<v Speaker 4>guy who was the architect, along with Howard Lutnik, of

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<v Speaker 4>the UK deal.

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<v Speaker 3>So let's see what happens. It'so of the very best.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll certainly pensil in the weekend for the markets. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>pensil in and appearance with you for Monday. No worries

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<v Speaker 2>about that. I'm looking forward to that conversation. Just got

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<v Speaker 2>into the weekend and reflected on your experience dealing with

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<v Speaker 2>the Chinese. Then not the UK. This is not the

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<v Speaker 2>same relationship. The trade relationship is tremendously unbalanced and has

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<v Speaker 2>been for a long long time. Can you frame for

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<v Speaker 2>us how difficult it has been previously for you to

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<v Speaker 2>negotiate with the Chinese and how much longer it could

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<v Speaker 2>take with the Chinese relative to set the UK and

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<v Speaker 2>other trade partners.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I could tell you.

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<v Speaker 4>I think I sat face to face with the China

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<v Speaker 4>team maybe seven times during the first term, and twice

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<v Speaker 4>Shi Jinping was there with G seven, just community the

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<v Speaker 4>G twenty both. I think it was Tokyo and our

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<v Speaker 4>Buenos Aires. What's interesting, So what's so interesting to me,

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<v Speaker 4>Jonathan about China is that they have continuity. The same

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<v Speaker 4>people are going to be in Geneva or the same

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<v Speaker 4>people back then, and you know, our our regimes change,

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<v Speaker 4>we have different governments and things like that. But they

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<v Speaker 4>have the advantage of that kind of continuity.

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<v Speaker 3>But look, it'll be interesting again.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't I don't want to get ahead of Scott

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<v Speaker 4>and Jamison or the President.

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<v Speaker 3>I think, let's see what happens.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, my role, and we've got we've got fifteen

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<v Speaker 4>countries we run enormous trade deficits with that, We've got

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<v Speaker 4>to renegotiate.

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<v Speaker 3>The whole structure of those deals.

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<v Speaker 4>And there's another one hundred countries that that cheat us

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<v Speaker 4>in some ways.

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<v Speaker 3>But smaller ways. My role in the administration.

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<v Speaker 4>On all of this is to do the background analytics

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<v Speaker 4>to see how we country is cheating us, which basically

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<v Speaker 4>sets up the terms of the negotiation. And every country,

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<v Speaker 4>like fingerprinsts, like India is the Maharaja tariffs. They have

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<v Speaker 4>the highest tariffs of any of our major trading partners.

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<v Speaker 4>Japan is the most clever at protecting its own markets

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<v Speaker 4>with a combination of domestic protectionism non tariff barriers. You know,

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<v Speaker 4>Germany they have auto tariffs at ten percent. We have

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<v Speaker 4>them at two and a half percent, but they also

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<v Speaker 4>have the vat tax which acts as another twenty nine

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<v Speaker 4>what is it, nineteen percent tariff and an exports subsidies.

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<v Speaker 3>So what I do is.

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<v Speaker 4>Do the background and look at kind of how these

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<v Speaker 4>countries are doing what to us, and we get great

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<v Speaker 4>deals from there.

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<v Speaker 3>People. I think the UK deal is very interesting.

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<v Speaker 4>I think the significance is not just that it's a deal,

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<v Speaker 4>but that's a template for the future deals. What we

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<v Speaker 4>do done is like four or five verticals we look at.

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<v Speaker 4>It's the tariffs, the non tariff barriers, the digital taxes,

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<v Speaker 4>and then the various kinds of cheating, the dumping, the

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<v Speaker 4>currency manipulation and things like that. And then from there

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<v Speaker 4>we assess what the asks are, what we need and

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<v Speaker 4>go forward from there.

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<v Speaker 3>See, you get to see a steady wave of deals.

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<v Speaker 4>The USTR building is right across the street from the

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<v Speaker 4>White House. It's got the most staff negotiating these deals.

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<v Speaker 4>And it's like you go to the Delhi and you

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<v Speaker 4>have to take.

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<v Speaker 3>A number and get in line.

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<v Speaker 4>Every day there's delegations from around the world lining up

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<v Speaker 4>to meet with Jamison Greer and Howard Lutnick, and I've seen.

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<v Speaker 3>I looked yesterday at the schedule.

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<v Speaker 4>It was kind of fun out the July and it's

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<v Speaker 4>just you know, one after the others.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, Peter looking at the countries lining up.

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<v Speaker 5>One key aspect of the UK deal was of course

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<v Speaker 5>bringing down the auto tariff to ten percent. So right

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<v Speaker 5>now tariff rate that's lower for Bentley's, which is a

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<v Speaker 5>car that most American families can't afford made in the UK,

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<v Speaker 5>where Chevys have a higher rate if they're made in

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<v Speaker 5>Canada or Mexico. Is there an expectation that the next

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<v Speaker 5>trade deals auto terrors will be coming down those rates.

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<v Speaker 3>It's going to be country by country. I mean, the

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<v Speaker 3>beauty about the UK is.

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<v Speaker 4>That very small amount of exports they send us and

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<v Speaker 4>we have a hard cap I think it's one hundred

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<v Speaker 4>thousand units where it goes right back up to twenty

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<v Speaker 4>five percent. And again we're trying to do something that's

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<v Speaker 4>mutually beneficial to both countries to get to a better place.

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<v Speaker 3>Well at the same time.

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<v Speaker 4>Changing the level of the playing field so that it

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<v Speaker 4>is more level. I think for me, the beauty of

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<v Speaker 4>the UK deal besides that was all of the good

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<v Speaker 4>stuff we had for AG. I mean, one of the

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<v Speaker 4>problems we have is this non tariff barriers like FIDO

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<v Speaker 4>sanitary standards, what's that that's like? These things they do

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<v Speaker 4>to keep our pork out, our chicken out, our beef.

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<v Speaker 3>Right now we're going to be able to.

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<v Speaker 4>Sell a lot more beef, poultry, dairy, and ethanol.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean they had a really.

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<v Speaker 4>High tariff, like almost a lockout tariff on ethanol and

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<v Speaker 4>that's made from corn.

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<v Speaker 3>So the folks in Iowa are very happy about that.

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<v Speaker 3>So this is the way we're going to go forward

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<v Speaker 3>on net. The United States is going to be far

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<v Speaker 3>better off. And all we're doing is trying to level

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<v Speaker 3>the playing field.

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<v Speaker 4>I saw the e EU kind of rattling sabers I

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<v Speaker 4>think was yesterday about some kind of retaliation, and I

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<v Speaker 4>would just say to anybody's who's in the European Union,

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, how can you look at us in the

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<v Speaker 4>face and threaten us when your tariffs are higher?

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<v Speaker 3>You have lost.

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<v Speaker 4>Cases repeatedly at the WTO on us selling you things

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<v Speaker 4>like beef and poultry, and you won't even honor that.

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<v Speaker 1>So yesterday the President called Ursula Vonderline fantastic and he

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<v Speaker 1>said he hopes to meet her. But are you saying

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<v Speaker 1>that the European Union is not as high on the

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<v Speaker 1>priority list? And say other trading partners like the Oriental

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<v Speaker 1>pan not at all.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean the EU to be clear here, we.

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<v Speaker 4>Have the second highest trade deficit with the EU, behind China,

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<v Speaker 4>so they're very high on the list. All I'm saying

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<v Speaker 4>here is that I thought I found it unfortunate that

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<v Speaker 4>the EU kind of fired I think some term was

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<v Speaker 4>fired shots across our bow. It's like retaliation will not

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<v Speaker 4>work against the United States.

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<v Speaker 3>We shouldn't have that.

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<v Speaker 4>Let's talk, let's figure this out, and it would.

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<v Speaker 3>Be nice here. Let's give piece a chance here.

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<v Speaker 4>All we're asking for here in the United States of

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<v Speaker 4>America is fairness.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, hold on, did you agree?

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<v Speaker 4>Is there any disagreement on this set and on your

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<v Speaker 4>set that the tariffs of the EU are higher, and

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<v Speaker 4>that the non tariff bearriers are higher, and that the

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<v Speaker 4>w t O in Geneva is basically sanctioning that through

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<v Speaker 4>tuesdays one is the.

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<v Speaker 3>But would you agree with that?

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<v Speaker 6>I think there's a bigger question fac there. There's a

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<v Speaker 6>bigger question here. There's a bigger question here, and this

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<v Speaker 6>is something that the German Finance Minister has come out

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<v Speaker 6>and talked about, which is they'd be willing to drop

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<v Speaker 6>all tariffs to zero if the US were willing to

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<v Speaker 6>drop all tariffs to zero. There is a willingness to

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<v Speaker 6>negotiate aground the board to a lower teriff regime. Would

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<v Speaker 6>that be acceptable to you? Or is ten percent?

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<v Speaker 3>So stay with that. See, that's such a misdirection.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, it's it's the non tariff barriers stupid to kind

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<v Speaker 4>of paraphrase Bill Clinton, It's like, it's the non tariff barriers.

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<v Speaker 4>So when countries like Vietnam or entities like the EU

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<v Speaker 4>say to oh, let's all go to zero tariffs and

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<v Speaker 4>everything will be okay, that's.

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<v Speaker 3>Not the problem. It's part of the problem.

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<v Speaker 4>But the bigger problem is the non tariff barriers in Europe.

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<v Speaker 3>It's the VAT tax.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, I don't know if you know this, but

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<v Speaker 4>the United States has tried, going back to the nineteen

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<v Speaker 4>seventies to get equity treatment for the that tax, which

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<v Speaker 4>most countries of the world use versus the income tax

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<v Speaker 4>which we use. We haven't been able to get it

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<v Speaker 4>because the WTO has a majority of people who benefit

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<v Speaker 4>from sticking it to the United States.

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<v Speaker 3>So they do.

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<v Speaker 4>So the zero tariff thing, that's misdirection, and on your set,

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<v Speaker 4>you should call it on that. Let's lower the bad

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<v Speaker 4>tariff barriers, and let's give you relief on the VAT tax.

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<v Speaker 3>Now we're talking.

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<v Speaker 6>The VAT tax is a slightly different mechanism. This is

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<v Speaker 6>all going to take a long time, and there are

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<v Speaker 6>a lot of competing factors here in terms of who

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<v Speaker 6>can possibly pull these levers. I just wander, We've got

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<v Speaker 6>two months left in this ninety day negotiating period that

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<v Speaker 6>is paused for the retaliatory tariffs. Does that just get

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<v Speaker 6>extended out in another ninety days as you have to

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<v Speaker 6>deal with different legislative bodies to possibly remedy what you.

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<v Speaker 4>See, Well, we don't have to deal with legislative body.

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<v Speaker 4>Well okay in the EU perhaps, but you know, like

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<v Speaker 4>coin a term in Trump time, which is to say,

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<v Speaker 4>do it as fast as possible without screwing it up.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's all we're trying to do.

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<v Speaker 4>I go back to the observation that the United States

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<v Speaker 4>Trade Representative and that building, which is historic building, by

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<v Speaker 4>the way, beautiful to see if you ever get there.

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<v Speaker 4>The lines, you know, they're they're coming in and out.

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<v Speaker 4>We're talking, and we're talking, and you.

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<v Speaker 3>Know, let's, as the boss says, let's see what happens.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, it's in everybody's interests around the world to

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<v Speaker 4>level the playing field with the United States in a

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<v Speaker 4>way which allows us to restructure this international trade environment

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<v Speaker 4>which is fundamentally skewed against the United States. I mean,

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<v Speaker 4>we're losing because of this system. The United States is

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<v Speaker 4>losing our manufacturing base, We're losing our defense industrial base.

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<v Speaker 3>And when push comes to.

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<v Speaker 4>Shove and folks around the world are looking for the

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<v Speaker 4>United States to help defend them, I mean, we get

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<v Speaker 4>to a point where we can't do that, what good

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<v Speaker 4>is that?

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<v Speaker 3>So trade?

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<v Speaker 4>Trade, economic security is national security is one of the

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<v Speaker 4>guiding principles and President Trump in this administration. So we're

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<v Speaker 4>just trying to get fairness here. Give give fairness a

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<v Speaker 4>chance here and work with us.

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<v Speaker 2>Looking forward to an update on Monday, sir, it's going

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<v Speaker 2>to see it once again, sir. Thank you. Dotar, Director

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<v Speaker 2>of the Office of Trade and Manufacturing Policy at the

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<v Speaker 2>White House.