1 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savior production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese. 2 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 2: And I'm Lauren vocal Baum, and today we have an 3 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 2: episode for you about lab grown meat. 4 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: Yes, I'm sorry, I just I act surprised as if 5 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: I don't know what is coming. 6 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 2: You're like, oh, really, heck? Was that what I spent 7 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 2: three days reading about? 8 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, because there is a lot to go through with 9 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: this topic. 10 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,639 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, there is. Okay, So I suggested it, 11 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 2: and I knew it was going to It's one of 12 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 2: those things like I knew it was going to be 13 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 2: a lot, I didn't know it was going to be 14 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 2: as much as it is. 15 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: And I yeah, yep. Yeah. 16 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 2: Also, like neither of us are biologists or engineers of 17 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:05,759 Speaker 2: any kind, uh, let alone biological engineers. And so yeah, 18 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 2: we're doing our best. We're doing our best. 19 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: That's all we can do. That's all we can do. Yeah, 20 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: it's intense. It's intense. And recently in a listener mail 21 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: someone did suggest this. I know it's been suggested before, 22 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: but it's a topic that's moving a lot, is changing 23 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: a lot. 24 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,199 Speaker 2: It's very fast paced, and it's very competitive as well. 25 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 2: And so there's also right, like my other caveat in 26 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:43,839 Speaker 2: addition to we were I mean I was an English major. Yeah, 27 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 2: neither of us were science majors. Also, like a lot 28 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 2: of what's going on with this is proprietary, and so 29 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 2: many things written about it for public consumption are a 30 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 2: little bit purposefully vague. So and it is moving so quickly, 31 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 2: so there's like so much news. Like the history section 32 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 2: is an overview of some of the high points. 33 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, well was there any particular reason this was 34 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: on your mind, Laurid. 35 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. I think it was just, 36 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 2: you know, a line item in the topic spreadsheet that 37 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 2: we have, and I was like, maybe today. 38 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: You and these ambitious I appreciate it. I know you've 39 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 1: said it's because it kind of ran out of the 40 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:43,679 Speaker 1: less but a good way to start out the year. 41 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: Lab growing sure, Yeah, yeah right. 42 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 2: You can also see vaguely related our meat alternative episode 43 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 2: called The Bleeding Edge of Meat Alternatives. Good pun there, 44 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 2: good for past us. Yes, well, I guess that brings 45 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 2: us to our question. Sure, sure, lab grown meat? 46 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: What is it? Well? 47 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,959 Speaker 2: Lab grown meat, also called cultured or cultivated meat among 48 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 2: many other names, is real animal meat that is grown 49 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 2: in a lab in vitro instead of being grown in 50 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 2: an animal, you know, in vivo. The idea is to 51 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 2: create meat that cooks and eats like meat that has 52 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 2: been butchered from an animal, without needing to butcher an animal. 53 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 2: Very basically, here, scientists can use bioengineering to take like 54 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 2: cells what are good at growing different cells from animal tissue, 55 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 2: generally without harming the animal, and then use some kind 56 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 2: of growth medium and environmentally controlled tank in order to 57 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 2: get the cells to develop and divide and grow into 58 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 2: a piece of tissue with like ideally similar texture and 59 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 2: flavor properties to whatever cut of meat from the original animal. 60 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 2: And this is biotechnology that is still in its like 61 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 2: preliminary to mid preliminary stages, you know, like more research 62 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 2: needs to be done, but if it could be worked 63 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 2: out to be done with sustainable energy at industrial scale 64 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: for a reasonable cost, it could mean revolutionizing everything from 65 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 2: like animal welfare to agricultural impact on the environment, to 66 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 2: human worker welfare to like the prevalence of food born 67 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 2: illness and antibiotic resistance. And I need to say that 68 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 2: in that previous sentence the word if was doing some 69 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 2: like real heavy lifting. But like a the research does 70 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 2: have implications for all all kinds of interesting stuff in 71 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 2: other fields like medical therapy and be industrialized. Meat production 72 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 2: is like bad enough that even just mildly improving any 73 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 2: of the stuff I mentioned above would be so good 74 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 2: and is worth looking into. Lab grown meat is truly 75 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 2: futurist stuff, but also like tantalizingly within reason, which is 76 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 2: something that you don't get very often with futurism. The 77 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 2: process of making it is like a very fancy brewery 78 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 2: or like butter or yogurt system, because yeah, like you're 79 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 2: culturing it, but growing meat is very much more complicated 80 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 2: than growing yeaster bacteria. It's sort of like if John 81 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 2: Hammond had decided to solve world hunger instead of creating 82 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 2: a theme park full of dinosaurs. 83 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe you should have thought about that. It seems 84 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: like it would have been a good plan. But I 85 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 1: don't know. I'm not I'm not a billionaire here we are. 86 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 2: But okay, so again, I'm going to be doing a 87 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 2: lot of summarizing here. I really hope that my summaries are, 88 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 2: you know, like as clear and accurate as they can be. 89 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 2: As far as they go, y'all write in if you 90 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 2: know more about this than I do. But okay, yeah, 91 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 2: so you might see a lot of other different terms 92 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 2: for lab grown meat. Advocacy groups tend to like terms 93 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 2: like slaughter free meat or clean meat. Shout out to 94 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 2: NPR's Ketzel Levine for calling it schmeat back in two 95 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 2: thousand and eight. I think that's the one we should 96 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 2: go with personally, but no one asks me about these things. Okay, 97 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 2: so you're starting with animal cells, and the starter cells 98 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 2: that you're using can differ. If you're going to biopsy 99 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 2: cells from an animal, you're looking to nab some kind 100 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 2: of like multipotent to plury potent stem cells. That that is, 101 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 2: cells that can differentiate into different kinds of tissue, maybe 102 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 2: like embryonic stem cells or maybe adult muscle stem cells. 103 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 2: In the case of poultry, you can also obtain cells 104 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 2: from a fertilized egg, and so however you get them, 105 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 2: Scientists work with their cell samples and select ones from 106 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 2: which they prove that meat could be grown well, and 107 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 2: then they'll bank those cell lines for use across many, many, 108 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 2: many batches of meat without having to go back and 109 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 2: harvest more. The cell cultures are fed with stuff that 110 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 2: cells used to grow in vivo and under normal circumstances, 111 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 2: you know, like a kind of mix of water, sugars, 112 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 2: amino acids, vitamins and minerals and salts. The cultures are 113 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 2: grown in bioreactors, which sounds a little scary, but it's 114 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 2: really just like a monitored vat in which you can 115 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 2: control the inputs of nutrients and oxygen and heat, and 116 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 2: you can also observe the cells consumption and their outputs 117 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 2: to see how they're doing. You can grow meat in 118 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 2: batches or continually. How long it takes obviously depends on 119 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 2: the proprietary process, but I've seen numbers as low as 120 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 2: like three weeks per portion of meat, which, if you're thinking, 121 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 2: sounds like a long time for something to be developing 122 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 2: in a lab. Like think about how much shorter it 123 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 2: is than the time it takes to grow a chicken 124 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 2: or a fish, or definitely a cow. 125 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. 126 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 2: One of the issues here is definitely texture. Like you know, 127 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 2: you can solve for flavor and color by adding different 128 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 2: stuff to the mix. You know from building blocks that 129 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 2: meat naturally contains to additives like say a turmeric extract 130 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 2: something like that. Left to its own devices, a lot 131 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 2: of these meat cultures will grow in like thin layers. 132 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 2: So if you want like a chicken cutlet or a 133 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 2: slice of like salmon locks kind of stuff, you're pretty gold. 134 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 2: And those thin layers are easy to like press or 135 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 2: grind and then shape into say a beef burger or 136 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 2: a chicken nugget, or like a deli type loaf. But 137 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 2: if you think about something complex, like a ribi steak 138 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 2: or a thick piece of salmon sashimi, you know, with 139 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 2: like the bands of fat in it, ah so good, 140 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 2: or a chicken thigh, that's more difficult. Other technologies like 141 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 2: three D printing are sometimes incorporated to help create the structure. 142 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 2: Once you've grown the muscle fibers and the fat cells, 143 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,319 Speaker 2: you can also grow the meat inside of some kind 144 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 2: of scaffolding made up of something like collagen gel. Some 145 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 2: companies are working on biological methods to like encourage that 146 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 2: cell differentiation within single pieces of meat to create the 147 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 2: different bands of muscle, fiber and fat. Another thing that 148 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 2: is difficult with all of this is probably going to 149 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 2: be getting people to accept it. Uh, Like we're currently 150 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 2: dealing with really unfortunate and personally, probably for a lot 151 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 2: of y'all, too frustrating distrust of science in our society, 152 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 2: certainly here in the United States, and and I guess, 153 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 2: like to be fair, like what you put in your 154 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 2: mouth is very personal, and so people can be particularly 155 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 2: entrenched in their ideas about food. That being said, I've 156 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 2: read a lot of different anecdotes about people who have 157 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 2: eaten dishes made with like the top of the line 158 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 2: samples of these things, and they've pretty roundly reported that 159 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 2: like it tasted and felt like conventionally grown meat. 160 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think the like popular story is, oh, this 161 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: tastes like chicken, and they're like, it's right, chicken, it's chicken. 162 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: Fooled you. Yeah, but yeah. 163 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 2: There are a lot of different companies out there working 164 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 2: with this on everything from like yes, chicken and beef 165 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 2: to pork, to seafood like fish and shrimp and lobster 166 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 2: to perhaps shall we say, uncommon meats like zebra or 167 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 2: I'll pack up. There are other companies looking to replicate 168 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 2: other animal proteins like milk and eggs. 169 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, yep, my goodness. Well what about the nutrition. 170 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 2: Gosh, don't eat a burgeoning industry. Hypothetically, the meat products 171 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: that come out of this process are about the same 172 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 2: as conventionally grown meat. 173 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: But you know, I guess it. 174 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 2: Depends that's what that's what they're looking to do anyway, Yes, yes, 175 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 2: depends on how you cook it. 176 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 1: Well, we do have some numbers for you. 177 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,439 Speaker 2: We do, okay, So as of twenty twenty four, there 178 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 2: were over two hundred cultured meat startups working across every 179 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 2: continent that you know isn't Antarctica. For the past few years, 180 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 2: they have been backed by investments ranging like right around 181 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 2: a billion dollars a year. The reports have varied, but 182 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 2: I'm gathering it's about a billion, and okay, Like globally speaking, 183 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 2: meat is a luxury, but it's something that we humans 184 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 2: eat a lot of, especially as we like societally gain 185 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 2: the means to do so financially and you know, agriculturally 186 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 2: or trade wise. So for example, the world population has 187 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 2: more than doubled since the early nineteen sixties, but meat 188 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 2: consumption has more than quadrupled during that time as countries 189 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 2: have developed. Some eighty billion animals are slaughtered every year 190 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 2: to produce some three hundred and forty million metric tons 191 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 2: of meat. And that's a lot of animals. It's also 192 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 2: really hard on the environment. Meat industry, livestock contribute somewhere 193 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 2: between like fifteen to eighteen percent of the world's greenhouse 194 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 2: gas emissions. That's more than the transportation industry. These animals 195 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 2: also consume some eight percent of our fresh water, and 196 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 2: caring for them requires about thirty percent of our land. 197 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: Wow. 198 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:41,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, and getting to make a difference in those numbers 199 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 2: is a really huge part of why this is such 200 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:46,599 Speaker 2: a burgeoning industry. 201 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: But it's also like scale. 202 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 2: I cannot emphasize hard enough how much scale is an 203 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 2: issue here. Like, Okay, as of twenty twenty three, this 204 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 2: cultivated chicken producer called Upside could produce about fifty thousand 205 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 2: pounds of chicken meat every year, and they think that 206 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 2: that facility could expand up to like four hundred thousand 207 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 2: pounds of chicken meat every year. In contrast, as of 208 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, the US butchered some fifty nine billion 209 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 2: pounds of conventionally grown chicken. 210 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: So that's more. That's some. Yeah, Yeah, that's a few 211 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: factors more. 212 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 2: And yeah, so don't be too afraid of it just yet. 213 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 2: But also how we even got to hear has been 214 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 2: a journey. 215 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: It certainly has, and we will get into that after 216 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: a quick break for a word from our sponsor, and 217 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, Okay. So, 218 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: while the idea of lab grown meat has been around 219 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: for a while, a lot of the history is fairly 220 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: recent and has to do with concerns around food security, 221 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: climate change, health, the environment, and animal welfare. So looking 222 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: back in eighteen ninety four, a French chemistry professor allegedly 223 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: predicted we'd be eating lab grown meat by the year 224 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: two thousand. So far, so far in the future. Yes, 225 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: And also allegedly Winston Churchill mentioned cultured meat in the 226 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: context of human consumption in nineteen thirty one or nineteen 227 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 1: thirty two quote, we shall escape the absurdity of growing 228 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: a whole chicken in order to eat the breast or 229 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: wing by growing these parts separately under a suitable medium. 230 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 2: Yeh, yes, And he did actually write this, It's in 231 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 2: an essay call fifty years Hence I think he wrote 232 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 2: it as a speech in nineteen thirty one and then 233 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 2: published it in Popular Mechanics in nineteen thirty two, And 234 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 2: it's been republished in a book of his essays called 235 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 2: Thoughts and Adventures if you'd like to read the whole thing. 236 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 2: But yes, when he wrote it fifty years hence was 237 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 2: the nineteen eighties. 238 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: So far in the future. Yeah, but it wasn't until 239 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: the two thousands that experimenting with labgrown meat really took off. 240 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: Many of the early scientists in the fields started by 241 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: culturing animal muscle tissue. A lot of debate ensued in 242 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: the following decades of the pros and cons around this 243 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: kind of meat and the process behind it. There were 244 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: definitely earlier proof of concepts though, Yeah. 245 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 2: Starting in nineteen ninety four, this Indonesian Dutch researcher by 246 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 2: the name of Willem van Ellen filed a few patents 247 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 2: for lab cultured meat processes. He got the idea in 248 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 2: medical school following World War Two, during which he had 249 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 2: been a prisoner of war of the Japanese army, so, 250 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 2: like you know, he had seen hunger, and then in 251 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 2: school he was struck by these experiments that were attempting 252 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 2: to use stem cells to culture human skin for burn victims. 253 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 2: He apparently spent the rest of his life attempting to 254 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 2: get people on board with growing meat in vitro. Those 255 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 2: patents were later bought by this American startup called Hampden Creek, 256 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 2: which later became known as eat just which will be 257 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 2: coming back to later. 258 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: Yes. Also dating back to the nineteen nineties, range Cats 259 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: and Annot Zurr were experimenting with cultured meats. Their two 260 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: thousand and three project, Disembodied Cuisine was the first recognized 261 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 1: example being grown from live animal cells and then eaten. 262 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 1: It was a quote bio art project where frog that 263 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: provided the sales for the meat were hopping around next 264 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: to the frog steaks that were grown from the cell 265 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: from their cells. At the end of the project's run, 266 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,360 Speaker 1: people ate the frog meat grown from these frog cells, 267 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: and the frogs were released. Apparently at least a few 268 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: people spit it out. Well you know early, it was early. 269 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,400 Speaker 1: You know you might be looking at the frog. Well, no, 270 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: you made it weird. 271 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess. Speaking of projected dates of when this 272 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,360 Speaker 2: kind of thing would be available, In the year two 273 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 2: thousand and eight, PETA offered a million dollar prize to 274 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 2: anyone who could create commercially viable lab grown chicken within 275 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 2: a deadline of just four years. 276 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: Wow. Very hopeful. 277 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,479 Speaker 2: Not a lot of money for the amount of setup 278 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 2: that that requires. But yeah, that did not occur. I 279 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 2: think they extended the deadline and to another four years 280 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 2: and it still did not occur. 281 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: So here we are, yes, well, here we are. A 282 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: Dutch scientist Mark Post is frequently credited with creating one 283 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 1: of the first instances of lab grown edible meat when 284 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: he debuted a lab grown beef burger on live TV 285 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 1: in twenty thirteen. Yeah, it took three months to grow 286 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: and it was dubbed the three hundred and thirty thousand 287 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 1: dollars Burger. Post went on to found the company Mosa 288 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: Meat two years after this high profile cultivated meat debut. 289 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: Researchers could produce a product much more cheaply, in some cases, 290 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: like a hamburger, for about eleven dollars. Ten years later, 291 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: different sources put it anywhere from ten dollars to fifty dollars, 292 00:19:53,840 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: so a vast difference whatever the case. Yep. San Francisco's 293 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: startup Upside Foods, who we've mentioned a little bit previously 294 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: known as Memphis Meats, has been a big name in 295 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: this conversation. The company was founded in twenty fifteen by 296 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: cardiologist Uma Valetti, who got the idea after a visit 297 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: to Slaughterhouse and he was thinking, like, we've got to 298 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: improve this. At his work. He'd seen how heart cells 299 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: could be grown in a lab environment and thought, why 300 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: can't we do this with meat. It took years of 301 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 1: experimentation before he and his team finally got it right. 302 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 2: Also in twenty fifteen, the restaurant that listener Nava wrote 303 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 2: to us about, Bistro in Vitro, debuted fictionally. This was 304 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 2: never a real restaurant, unfortunately, No, only ever a fictional 305 00:20:55,680 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 2: such a good didn't know, I know. But their menu 306 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 2: is still online, so yeah, just Bistro dashinvitro dot com. 307 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: Go check it out. It's really funny. 308 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 2: Also, right around this time, I think twenty fifteen to 309 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, people in the industry were saying it would 310 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 2: take several years for lab grown meat to scale to market, 311 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 2: so like mid twenty twenties. 312 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: Yes, and this brings us to space our space news, 313 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: because you know we love space news always always. In 314 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, astronauts on the International Space Station embarked on 315 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: a quest to cultivate the first lab grown beef in space. 316 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: Okay again in the briefest, most basic terms. Cow cells 317 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 1: were sent to the ISS, where they were then mixed 318 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: with a nutrient soup and placed in a three D bioprinter. 319 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: What a world or what a galaxy? I don't know. 320 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: This resulted in the first space printed cultivated beef steak. 321 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: The experiment was the brainchild of Israeli food company Alif Farms, 322 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 1: and they wanted to prove that you can make lab 323 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: grown meat anywhere. 324 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:25,919 Speaker 2: That is one of the hypothetical eventual perks of something 325 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 2: like this is that it could be done during long 326 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 2: term space exploration. 327 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean go read about it. It's pretty wild. 328 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: It's amazing. 329 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we could do a whole thing just on that. 330 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 2: But continuing our timeline, in twenty twenty, another Israeli startup 331 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 2: called super Meat opened a test kitchen that served did 332 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 2: not sell because it wasn't technically legally approved, but they 333 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 2: served these like fancy cultured chicken sandwiches. That experiment is 334 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 2: no longer running, but the company still is. As of 335 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, their lab grown chicken was recognized as kosher. 336 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: And another thing, if you're interested, you can go read 337 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 1: about It's like if people think it's actually vegetarian or 338 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: actually sure, like oh my gosh. 339 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like no, it's not vegetarian, it's meat. It's 340 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 2: made of it's made of animal. 341 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 1: But people are having these conversations Oh yeah, oh absolutely no, 342 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,360 Speaker 1: which is great, to be honest, it is. It is. 343 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: Singapore became the first country to allow the sale of 344 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: lab grown meat in twenty twenty. 345 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 2: Yes, they specifically approved lab grown chicken brand good meat 346 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 2: from eat Just Incorporated for retail, though right now eat 347 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 2: just is in Singapore is working on not producing fully 348 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 2: lab grown meat products, but rather like supplementing plant based 349 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 2: proteins with small percentages of lab grown meats, like three 350 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 2: percent lab grown meat as of twenty twenty four. Meanwhile, 351 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 2: back in twenty twenty one, Hong Kong startup Avant Meats 352 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 2: debuted this test run of grouper filets grown from cultured meat. 353 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 2: The chef who worked with them said that they had 354 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 2: a texture like crabcakes. But yeah, Avant is one of 355 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 2: the many companies focusing on seafood. 356 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 1: Huh, I'm so intrigued, So intrigued, Okay. In twenty twenty three, 357 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: the Department of Agriculture in the United States approved the 358 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,360 Speaker 1: sale of cultivated chicken, a year after the FDA gave 359 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: their own approval. They were specifically approving the submission of 360 00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: Upside Foods because they're reviewing these products company by company. Yeah. 361 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, they also approved another company's cultured chicken from Good Meat. 362 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 2: A lot of these places really enjoy all caps in 363 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 2: their names anyway, good meat. But yes, these products can 364 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 2: carry like the familiar USD inspected symbol that comes on 365 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 2: conventionally grown meat. 366 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is still pretty niche and cost prohibitive for many. 367 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: But Upside in particular has partnerships with some big chefs 368 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 1: and restaurants. Yeah, some of the deandres people like that. 369 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. Yeah. On the other hand, some 370 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:42,239 Speaker 1: US states have banned it Alabama and Florida as of 371 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: this recording, or are trying to ban it. 372 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, And these bands have different levels of prohibition. I 373 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 2: think Florida is the most stringent where it's not only 374 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 2: Florida's not only banned the manufacture of lab grown meat 375 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 2: in state, but also the distribution and sale with like 376 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 2: fines and even imprisonment on the line. 377 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: Right now, as. 378 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:11,199 Speaker 2: Of twenty twenty five, Nebraska is considering bands like only 379 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,719 Speaker 2: on the manufacture and direct sales in like grocery stores 380 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 2: in state. Like, citizens could still buy it online if 381 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 2: they wanted to. All of these bands are ostensibly in 382 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 2: the name of promoting and protecting existing farms and farming jobs. 383 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 2: You know, although I do want to which is noble, 384 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 2: which is absolutely noble, But I do want to say 385 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 2: again that like those are not going to be replaced 386 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 2: anytime soon, if ever, by this technology, and be like, 387 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 2: some of this is just some disingenuous anti science clap 388 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 2: trap trigger warning for Ron DeSantis. He said about signing 389 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 2: this bill in Florida that Florida is quote fighting back 390 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 2: against the global elites plan to force the world to 391 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 2: eat meat grown in petritish or bugs to achieve their 392 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 2: authoritarian goals. 393 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm sorry so much. I would love to just 394 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: tear down in that. 395 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 2: In that single sentence, it's wow, I yeah, so so right, 396 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,439 Speaker 2: like and I'm sorry, Like, I don't I don't mean to. 397 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:31,120 Speaker 2: I don't mean to make fun of people who are 398 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 2: merely ignorant about a topic, except for when they have 399 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 2: run for office and are there and are making decisions 400 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 2: that affect the rest of us. 401 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, sorry anyway, Yeah, yeah, okay, I'm glad you 402 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: gave me the trigger warning. I just I just I 403 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 1: just want people. I just like science so much it 404 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 1: can't do everything, but. 405 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 2: It can help. 406 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: It's trying to help anyway. Books are fine, get out 407 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 1: of here. Books are great at any rate. Yes, yes, 408 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: at any rate. We are not the only country that's 409 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: kind of grappling with some of this. Other countries are 410 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: still hammering out the legal framework. Some like India, are 411 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: planning on funding research into cultivated meats, while others like 412 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: Italy are worried about how this impacts their country's food 413 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,880 Speaker 1: history and culture. Are at least some on the far 414 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: right are the right wing portion of the government has 415 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: proposed banning it with steep, steep fines for non compliance. Yeah, yeah, 416 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: it's and I think I think caution is good. 417 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 2: Caution is great. And like again, like lab grown meat 418 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 2: is not looking to replace something like like domination of 419 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 2: controlled origin PERSCUDO or something like that. You know, like, 420 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 2: we're not No one is trying to put small farmers 421 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 2: out of jobs. 422 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: But if we can. 423 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 2: Decrease the literal evils of industrial scale meat production, that 424 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 2: would be terrific. That would be really good. Some countries 425 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 2: are a little bit more forward thinking, perhaps not to 426 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 2: accidentally name drop a show that I used to work 427 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 2: on about futurist topics. Israel approved a lift farms beef 428 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 2: steaks for sale in late twenty twenty four. 429 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: The UK became the first country in Europe to legalize 430 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: lab grown meat for pet food in twenty twenty five. 431 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 2: There are a number of applications that the different companies 432 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 2: have put in with the UK's Food Standards Agency for 433 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 2: human foods, including for cultured steak, other beef products, chicken, 434 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 2: and for. 435 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: Gra Wow I know right, wow, like harmless for gra 436 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: that's amazing, that would be awesome, so cool. Oh my goodness. Well, 437 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: research is on going. Recently, people in the industry have 438 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: been looking at ways to utilize immortalized cell lines that 439 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: eliminate the need to go back to the animal in 440 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: question for a sample. Yeah. 441 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 2: Very Basically, immortalized cell lines are cells that have mutated 442 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 2: so that they keep dividing and thus growing new tissue, 443 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 2: like beyond the point that normal cells will. This mutation 444 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 2: can be induced, So from what I understand, the benefit 445 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 2: here is that if you can isolate like a really 446 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 2: efficient or otherwise desirable cell line and then immortalize it, 447 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 2: that saves a lot of. 448 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: Work down the line. 449 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 2: Other labs are are working on inducing pluripotents by reprogramming 450 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 2: cell nuclei. 451 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: Other other research. 452 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 2: Includes coming up with like cheaper plant based alternatives to 453 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 2: the traditional cell growth medium, which traditionally has been fetal 454 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 2: bovine serum, which is a expensive and be a byproduct 455 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 2: of the meat industry, so using it in order to 456 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 2: make lab grown meat like low key evades the point 457 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 2: of lab grown meat. Also, there is cell biology research 458 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 2: into more efficiently like prodding cells to differentiate into the 459 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 2: blend of fats and proteins that are seen in conventional meat. 460 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 2: The density of cells grown within the product is another challenge. 461 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 2: Lots of lots of different avenues depending on what each 462 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 2: individual company is looking to work with. But currently even 463 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 2: higher ups at the companies who are producing and promoting 464 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 2: this stuff, like like Upsides Coo won Amy Chen say 465 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 2: that entry of these products into the mass market is 466 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 2: at least ten years off. 467 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: Wow. 468 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 2: And this is one of the I kept bringing up 469 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 2: different like the kind of moving goalposts for dates in 470 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 2: this because it's one of the things that I find 471 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 2: inherently charming and silly about a lot of futurist conversation 472 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 2: is that like it's always twenty to forty years away, 473 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 2: and you know it's always going to be like, oh yeah, 474 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 2: sure we thought that ten years ago, but maybe in 475 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 2: another ten years. 476 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's like when your flight is delayed 477 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 1: and they're always like, oh, oh, only thirty minutes, and 478 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, okay, thirty hours later, it's like nobotty minutes. 479 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: You're like, because you're willing to wait around for that 480 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: thirty minutes. But yeah, I mean, I'm really interested to 481 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: see where this goes. And oh yeah, I would try 482 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: it at a heartbeat. Oh absolutely. I mean that I would 483 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: eat anything. 484 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 2: I feel like you and I are a poor sampal 485 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 2: size for this question, because right like, I'm like, yeah, sure, yeah, basically, 486 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 2: as long as I'm pretty sure it's not gonna harm me, 487 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 2: I'm going to try to eat it if it's offered. 488 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: To me as food. Yeah, I did. I did some 489 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: research and I was like, where can I get it? 490 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: It was like you can't, you cannot. You essentially cannot, 491 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: which is unfortunate. It is kind of funny, though, isn't 492 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: it that like, essentially I'll just be eating chicken. 493 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and like kind of processed chicken, but you'll 494 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 2: be so excited to do it. I will be, but 495 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 2: I I was gonna say that, yeah, if anyone has 496 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 2: tried it, yes, oh, we need to know. We need 497 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 2: to know everything about it, especially because a lot of 498 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,360 Speaker 2: the circumstances under which you can try these products, if 499 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,759 Speaker 2: you can, are very fancy circumstances. 500 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 1: Indeed, so yes, yes, oh listeners, please please write in 501 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: in the meantime. I think that's what we have to 502 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 1: say about lab grown meat for now. I could have 503 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: kept reading for years, but yes, yes it is. We 504 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 1: do already have some listener mail for you, though, and 505 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: we are going to get into that as soon as 506 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: we get back from one more quick break for a 507 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:47,359 Speaker 1: word from our sponsors. And we're back. Thank you, sponsors, Yes, 508 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: thank you, and we're back with Oh, listener, it's Dexter's lab. 509 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 2: Oh oh, I get you. Okay, it was difficult to 510 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 2: follow at the beginning. 511 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: That's I understand. I understand, and we woke up the 512 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 1: I mean, oh no, I'm sorry. It's just a kitten. 513 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: She'll be asleep in another four seconds. Lauren's kitten is 514 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 1: joining us today via lap yes, yes, not laptop via 515 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:27,239 Speaker 1: lapp Yes, but sometimes does sort now she does. That's true. 516 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:36,279 Speaker 1: Chaos Engine, little Bruce anyway, Anyway, a rope. Guava is 517 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: such a lovely fruit. When we were in Saint Kitts 518 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: earlier this year, I had a lot of it. Many 519 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,840 Speaker 1: people have a guava tree or two in their yard 520 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 1: along with a breadfruit tree. I had guava and a 521 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: fruit cup in a Danish as a barbecue sauce mixed 522 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: into yogurt. I don't recall the last time I saw 523 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: fresh guava where I live in Pittsburgh, so I took 524 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 1: advantage while I was there to eat a definitely something 525 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:07,239 Speaker 1: that is enjoyable. I love nutmeg. It is a great spice. 526 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,399 Speaker 1: I use it in a variety of dishes to add 527 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,320 Speaker 1: more flavor. I find it will provide a nice bump 528 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,839 Speaker 1: to all sorts of things. Use it in chili, alfredo, oatmeal, etc. 529 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:19,920 Speaker 1: The best thing to do is to get the whole 530 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: nutmegs and use a microplane to add it. Some people 531 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,439 Speaker 1: only want to use it around the holidays, but don't 532 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 1: feel restricted. Enjoy loved hearing the great variety in the 533 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: Listener mail episode. As mentioned, I love the variety of 534 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: things that people send in. It is so wonderful to 535 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 1: hear about all these different things, such a beautiful world 536 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: of people and food to discover. Oh that is true. 537 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: That is so true. It's so true, it's so lovely. 538 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: We can't thank y'all enough for writing is absolutely and 539 00:36:55,480 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 1: sharing these things with us. But yeah, I'm I feel 540 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: like we're gonna have to This great chili debate is 541 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: gonna have to We're gonna have to deal with this 542 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: sooner or later. I feel like I fear we have 543 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: awoken a sleeping giant. I think that we have, which 544 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:26,320 Speaker 1: is a good segue. And you are oh yes, okay, 545 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: So Haley wrote you asked for chili opinions in the 546 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 1: recent listener, Male and I have big chili opinions. I 547 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 1: grew up in Missouri with a good mix of both 548 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,360 Speaker 1: Midwestern and Southern traditions. I loved chili growing up, but 549 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:41,880 Speaker 1: my mom wasn't the greatest at it. 550 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 2: Sorry, Mom. Hers was mostly tomato juice with a stray 551 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 2: bean and clump of unseasoned ground beef here and there. 552 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 2: I do tend to agree with Annie that chili is 553 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 2: in a camp of its own between soup and stew, 554 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 2: specifically because there are so many ways to make it. 555 00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 2: I think the addition of beans somehow makes it not 556 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 2: a stew in my mind, and yes, there must always 557 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 2: be beans. Chili should also always be a savory salt bomb, 558 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:12,319 Speaker 2: in my opinion, not a cinnamony chocolate sweet concoction. I 559 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 2: do respect of a good meaty, slash less tomato forward chili. 560 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 2: I'll la steak and Shake a fast food restaurant that 561 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 2: I dearly miss. If you know, you know, and if 562 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 2: you don't, you should find out. But I like mine 563 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 2: to have more tang and spice. My chili ingredients include 564 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 2: only a small amount of tomato sauce, tons of spice, 565 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 2: ground turkey, three types of beans, corn, peppers, onions, and garlic. 566 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:40,480 Speaker 2: And then come the controversial ingredients Frank's red hot sauce 567 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 2: and chopped pepper chinie. I find that the vinegar perfectly 568 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 2: balances out all of the rich umami from the meat 569 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 2: and tomatoes and gives it that little extra bite. I 570 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,800 Speaker 2: am also quite often given the side eye for requiring 571 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,799 Speaker 2: a half peanut butter sandwich, preferably on wheat bread to 572 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,839 Speaker 2: dip into my chili. I prefer unsweetened natural peanut butter, 573 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 2: but wouldn't turn down jiff if that was all that 574 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,759 Speaker 2: was available. I long moved away from Missouri to the 575 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,360 Speaker 2: Pacific Northwest and haven't met anyone yet that isn't shocked 576 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,920 Speaker 2: by my chili opinions. I wrote to you guys a 577 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,120 Speaker 2: while back and mentioned that I was having a rough time. 578 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 2: Though this is very vague, I wanted to report that 579 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:19,920 Speaker 2: I found myself in a much better spot in life. 580 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,319 Speaker 2: Thank you for being here for me through the ups 581 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:22,880 Speaker 2: and downs. 582 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 1: Oh of course, of course, thank you for listening. Yes, yes, oh, 583 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:35,400 Speaker 1: anything we can do to help hold back the tide 584 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: of all of this is stuff that we are glad 585 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:45,360 Speaker 1: to do. And those are some chili opinions. I adore this. 586 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:47,440 Speaker 1: It's so cool. 587 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 2: I've never heard of a peanut butter sandwich situation. 588 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:53,359 Speaker 1: Though. 589 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,280 Speaker 2: Now I'm thinking about it, and I'm like, that sounds great. 590 00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 1: That sounds fantastic, doesn't it. 591 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 2: I mean, I know how you feel any about peanut butter, 592 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:02,800 Speaker 2: so like, of course you're going to be like, yeah, 593 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 2: diep a peanut butter sandwich in anything that makes it better. 594 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but I think that I can see that 595 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: actually working really well. Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh, oh 596 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: my gosh, I know we did talk about I can 597 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: never remember the state so people can write in and 598 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: yell at me. But there we did talk about how 599 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:26,240 Speaker 1: some somewhere Simon rolls and oh right, chili. 600 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, cinnamon rolls is the thing that you 601 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,160 Speaker 2: serve with chili, right, which still sounds like a great 602 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:32,719 Speaker 2: idea to me. 603 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,880 Speaker 1: Totally want to try that, yes, But so the funny 604 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: thing is that after we talked about are some of 605 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 1: our chilly thoughts in the listener mail the most recent 606 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 1: listener mail, I had laid awake at night, I know, joke, 607 00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:59,919 Speaker 1: was laying awake and I was thinking about, like, I've 608 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: I've got to nail down what I think chili ish, 609 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,359 Speaker 1: and I was wrestling with it. And I sent this 610 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,920 Speaker 1: email to Lauren and super producer Andrew, and I was like, 611 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 1: this is I'm struggling with this because my mom's spaghetti 612 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,560 Speaker 1: sauce is very similar to chili, and also one of 613 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,880 Speaker 1: my favorite chilies doesn't have beans, and I don't know 614 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 1: what to make of all this. So I'm still wrestling. 615 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 1: I'm still wrestling with it, but I do love I 616 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 1: love your description of your mom's not so great chili. 617 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,880 Speaker 1: I feel like I've also had that chili. So yeah, yeah, 618 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,319 Speaker 1: I think a lot of your additions would be really good. 619 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely, I've never heard of pepper chini's and chili. 620 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,239 Speaker 1: That is a new one for me, but sounds great. 621 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:58,799 Speaker 1: I have a friend of the show Cody in there, 622 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,319 Speaker 1: like row they always include Pepperccini's because it, yeah, like 623 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:06,319 Speaker 1: the vinegar really helps just add this like depth to 624 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: the dish. M. Well, now I'm thinking we need to 625 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:21,680 Speaker 1: have some kind of Savor chili cookoff. I please keep 626 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,399 Speaker 1: them coming in because oh yeah, yeah, fascinated, but yes 627 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:26,239 Speaker 1: we will. 628 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,800 Speaker 2: I'd have to take a moment and like write, write 629 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:33,520 Speaker 2: my recipe down. But but we could both share our 630 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,120 Speaker 2: personal recipes if you wanted to. 631 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 1: We could. I think I might get some judgment for mine, 632 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:49,040 Speaker 1: but I'm not scared. No, no, no, y'all are the best. Yeah, yes, well, 633 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,520 Speaker 1: please keep those coming in. Thank you so much to 634 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,640 Speaker 1: both of these listeners for writing in. If you would 635 00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,400 Speaker 1: like to write to us, you can. Our email is 636 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,520 Speaker 1: hello at savorpod dot com. We're also on social media. 637 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,440 Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter moving into blue Sky 638 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,000 Speaker 2: a Facebook for now, I guess, and Instagram at saber pod. 639 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 2: And we do hope to hear from you. Saber is 640 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,160 Speaker 2: a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, you 641 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,400 Speaker 2: can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 642 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:16,879 Speaker 2: listen to. 643 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:17,720 Speaker 1: Your favorite shows. 644 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,839 Speaker 2: Thanks us always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and 645 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,239 Speaker 2: Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope 646 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:32,600 Speaker 2: that lots more good things are coming your way.