WEBVTT - Failure of Imagination 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.600 Good morning, Peeves, and welcome to wok F Daily with 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:20.160 Meet your Girl Daniel Moodie, recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, Today, 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:26.880 I am in a place of anxiety. I'm trying to 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:31.440 be honest in sharing how I'm feeling when I'm feeling it, 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:35.560 because I know that many people are in a place 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:41.040 of anxiety and fear about the future. And you know, 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:44.320 my advice, at least the advice that my therapist offered 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:49.640 me today was you can only control what you can control, 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:55.240 right and for me, that is right now making doctor's 0:00:55.240 --> 0:01:02.320 appointments and getting vaccinated and making sure that like my 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:06.640 health is okay in the event that the ACA is 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:10.880 repealed and I lose health care, that at least for 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:15.440 the year ahead, that I am up to date on 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:18.000 all of the important appointments that I need to have. 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:23.160 And I encourage everybody who you may pay for their 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:26.760 own insurance like I do as an entrepreneur, to do that, 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:31.600 you know, in thinking about what the future is going 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:36.120 to look like, maybe dedicate more time to spending with 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:39.920 your friends and family. The holiday season is coming up, 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:41.800 and I know that for a lot of people, the 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:45.760 holiday season is a mixed bag. I personally am grateful 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:47.920 that I enjoy it, that I enjoy the time with 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:50.480 my family, but I know for a lot of people 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:52.360 is going to be filled with strife. There are some 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:54.280 people that aren't going to be spending time with their 0:01:54.280 --> 0:02:00.120 family because of what happened with the election. And I 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:02.520 want to say to those people too, if you are 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:04.400 one of them that is going to make the decision 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:08.560 not to spend time with your family, do what it 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:13.919 is that will make you feel safe, make you feel seen, 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:19.000 and make you feel cared for. And if being with 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:24.320 a family that possibly voted against your rights and your 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:29.679 life and your livelihood and your safety isn't that, then 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:34.480 like that's okay. And also letting them know why is 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:39.320 also okay, because I think that in a time when 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:43.680 the truth of who America is has been revealed to 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:47.120 all of us, it's time that we all start telling 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:50.240 the truth to each other, not in a way to 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.520 weaponize truth, but in a way to make people aware 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:57.320 of your why. So it isn't just oh, I'm not 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:01.360 coming home for Thanksgiving because I'm busy or because I 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:04.639 have a prior commitment. It's because you saw fit to 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:10.040 vote against my rights, my life or that of those 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:12.880 that I care about and those that I love, and 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:15.560 I realize that now we no longer share the same 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:20.480 values and the same morals, and so I will no 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:23.359 longer be spending holidays with you. That's a fair thing 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:27.200 to say, because we don't know what the road ahead 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:29.280 looks like. But I do know that I want to 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:32.960 fill my time, whatever time that I have, with those 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:36.880 that I love and care for deeply. You know, our 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:41.160 time is precious, and so I don't want it to 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:45.400 be spent wrapped up in fear and worry about a 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:49.600 future that I cannot control. And I think that I 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.840 say this to you all now as I am ingesting 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:55.960 you know, my time with my own therapist, about like 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:01.240 control what you can, let go of what you can't, 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:07.160 and understand that we all have roles to play at 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:10.839 this moment. We may not know what those roles are 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:14.720 at this moment, but that they will be revealed to 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:18.720 us in due time if we are paying attention to 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:25.680 our internal clock, to our internal messaging and not just 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:29.880 what is filled up on social media. So coming up 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:33.599 next is my conversation with our friend, our in house doctor, 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:37.320 doctor Jonathan Metzel. It's the first time Jonathan and I 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:41.279 are speaking since the elections, so we share and reflect 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:44.520 on what the last two weeks have been like and 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:47.599 kind of what we are offering up to others as 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:50.800 we're in this mode of reflection. But what I will 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:54.360 end with today too is saying that if you are 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:58.080 finding yourself exhausted, if you are finding yourself weighed down, 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:02.200 listen to your body and give yourself a break. We're 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:05.559 also moving into winter. You know, the trees have lost 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:08.839 their leaves. You know, the animals are going into hibernation. 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:14.680 Our bodies flow on the same timeline and clocks as nature, right, 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:19.200 And so if you are feeling heavy and tired, more 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:23.159 so now than allow yourself the space and the time 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:27.719 to rest, because that's also what the frenetic anxious energy 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:32.640 does too. It burns us out. So I encourage us all, 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.039 and I again am saying this out loud so that 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:39.279 I hear it too, to rest when we need to move, 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:43.359 when we need to in order to relieve our bodies 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:47.640 of this stress, of this darkness. But that you have 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.040 to lean into what brings you light. You have to 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:53.960 let go of what does not, so that you have 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:57.200 the ability the nimbleness to be able to continue moving 0:05:57.279 --> 0:06:03.240 forward wherever that forward will lead you folks, you know 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:05.840 that whenever we have the opportunity to sit down with 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:10.040 our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzil, I am always thrilled. 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:15.000 And it has been, Jonathan, two weeks since the results 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:19.480 of the presidential election. I know that a lot of 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:25.360 people are still very much reeling from the election and 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:29.839 trying to make sense of where we are. And you 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:34.560 and I haven't spoken in two weeks, So tell me 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:38.640 how you are making sense of where things are right now. 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:41.880 I mean the hard thing right now is we are 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:46.120 in our lives are just honestly going to change pretty dramatically, 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:49.320 I think toward the end of January in a way 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:53.880 that is going to be really seismic. And I don't 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:56.760 know how to handle that because I feel it deeply, 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.400 and I read your social media posts and I know 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:02.039 you're up at five five o'clock in the morning thinking, 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:04.360 you know what, because it's even it's kind of like 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:06.760 remember we used to say, like wake up before the election, 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:11.360 but now I know so many people here who are like, oh, 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:15.400 it won't really impact me, or you know, somebody told me, oh, 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:18.680 they're only going to deport like the murderers and the rapists, 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:20.760 like somebody I know and stuff like that. So there's 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:24.320 kind of a level of I mean, I understand it's exhaustion, 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:28.120 but it's also kind of disengagement or denial or something. 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:30.840 And I think about that in a couple of ways. 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:34.400 I mean, one is it's frustrating. I don't know whether 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:37.280 I feel sometimes like I'm the guy who, like you 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:40.200 probably feel it's like in a scary movie where you 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:43.360 see the monster but nobody else does and it still 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:47.080 feels that way, like the monster is like eating the townspeople. 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.080 And so the level of like I just want to 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:53.000 be checked out is probably going to continue in a way. 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:56.000 It's kind of the world kind of divides in that way. 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:58.680 And also I feel like it's a divide between people 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:02.160 who understand have histories of historical trauma and people who don't. 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:05.120 It's kind of my feeling sometimes also, So that's part 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:07.680 of it. Part of it for me is a feeling 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:11.000 of kind of frustration in a way. You know, I understand, 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:14.239 like it's not like this time, It's not like twenty sixteen. 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:16.400 People aren't going to be like out there protesting and 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:19.240 things like that. Like people are down in a way, 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:21.640 but it is that moment of like waking up at 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:24.120 five am, and then I think, I told you this. 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:27.600 I have a couple of colleagues who come from places 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:32.560 where tutalitarian regimes took over democracies, and I said, like, 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:34.839 what was it like? And they were like, it wasn't 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:36.880 just one like wake up moment. It was like people 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:39.480 kind of gradually got used to it, and pretty soon 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:43.000 they started policing each other, and so societies that are 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:45.439 ready for it. I just feel like our society is 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:48.680 much more primed for what's coming now than it was 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:50.680 in twenty sixteen, where it really was a shock to 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:52.440 the system. And I guess the last thing is just 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:56.040 honestly frustration. I mean, I feel like you and me 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:58.200 and other people have been warning this for a long time, 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.360 and even for me, like I tried to write my 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:03.800 last book, I tried to call it How We Lost 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:06.600 as a wake up call, and I said, like, we're 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:08.920 going down the wrong path. We're not understanding what's happening 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:12.160 here like many people did. But there was this similar 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:16.200 level of kind of denial that happened before and it's 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:18.000 happening now just about how we got here in the 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:22.360 first place, So all of those emotions are kind of joined. 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:27.360 Yeah, it's like Wajahat my co host so on Democracy, 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:32.000 Ish says that he often to our listeners that him 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:35.319 and I are like Paul Revere, but instead of listening 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:39.040 to the fact that the British are coming, they'll just 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:42.200 shoot us off the horse. And it's this idea that 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:44.680 for the last nine years, for as long as I 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:47.240 have been doing I guess eight years that I've been 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:51.720 doing wollkf, it has been consistently trying to get people 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:55.920 to have imagination. And I think that where we are 0:09:56.040 --> 0:10:01.920 right now is a failure of imagination of Democrats. Because 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:03.959 you know, my sister said something to me the other day, 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:07.040 Jonathan that has stuck with me, and she goes, you know, 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:11.480 you can't really blame an untrained dog from bining somebody, 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:13.800 and you can't blame a pig for being a pig. 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:17.160 So she's like, so, in all honesty, she's like, it's 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:19.920 not as if I really blame Donald Trump and the 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:22.640 Republicans for doing what it is that they said that 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:25.439 they would do, for acting in the ways that we've 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:28.680 known that they would act, and she's like, you know, 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.680 so at the end of the day, it is honestly 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:35.880 those that refuse to train the fucking dog and recognize 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:38.079 that something was wrong with it to begin with. 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:40.720 Wait, am I the fucking dog? 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:44.360 No, it's uh, you know, but it's I mean, but seriously, 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.880 like it is. It is this idea like you cannot 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:51.959 blame Donald Trump for being an autocrat and a dictator 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:55.480 and cruel because that's who he is and that's what 0:10:55.600 --> 0:11:00.440 he has shown the American public. They just said, Okay, 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:01.400 it's not that bad. 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:04.320 But also I feel like part of the issue was 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:07.800 he was promising people something that they wanted and still want, 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:11.320 which was on an applied level, on a practical level, 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:13.679 I mean, I just the thing I'm pushing back on 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:17.080 is that like all these people now on whatever social 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:19.240 media platform they're on, are. 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:21.120 Saying, because you're like, where are the people? 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.240 Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm still on Twitter because I 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:26.000 want to see how this is playing out. 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:27.520 Join me on blue Sky. 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:28.559 Yeah you could be. 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:31.480 You can still stay on Twitter, but join join me 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:32.320 over on blue Sky. 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.080 I'm on blue Sky. But the idea that like there's 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:36.160 a safe haven in the show social media space, I 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:38.959 think it's kind of a fantasy. I understand the fantasy, 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.400 but the idea that like, oh, maga is going to 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:43.720 wake up when it starts to hit them, and I'm like, dude, 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:47.880 people are getting promised what they want, which is some 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:52.040 material things, retribution, it's real things. It's like if they 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:53.800 were going to wake up, they would have woken up 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:56.600 in Tennessee in twenty ten when I wrote Dying of 0:11:56.600 --> 0:11:58.760 Whiteness and they weren't getting healthcare. And so with the 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:01.400 idea that like people are going to really wake up 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:04.400 and regret this, I'm like, that is not how it works. 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:07.160 There's always going to be something. But I also feel 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:10.080 like I'm very critical of myself and our side for 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:13.160 playing right into this in a way, like the Republicans 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:15.520 were at the end of the day kind of unified, 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:20.599 they broadened their coalition, they promised people things. Whether or 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:22.880 not I agree with them, obviously, don't that they that 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:26.679 they wanted. And I feel like our side was divided 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:30.840 and fractured. And I mean, I've just seen this even 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:33.240 my experience. It kind of harkens for me back to 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:34.960 trying to get my last book published and how I 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:37.600 kept saying, like, look, man, We have a problem here, 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:40.880 which is that liberals like me are making up all 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:43.560 these gun laws that make sense to me because I 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:45.720 believe in public health and I don't have a gun. 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:48.240 But the idea that we're going to get people to 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:51.000 go along with gun control who are in red states 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:53.840 and don't have guns because they don't believe in government, 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:56.800 like our whole framework is wrong here, and as you know, 0:12:56.920 --> 0:13:00.640 I got shown the door for that, and me, I'm 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:03.199 just saying that I just think our framework, we needed 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.120 a framework. Honestly, I think. 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:08.160 This is where I will push back because I feel 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:11.800 like there is always a consistent amount of blame and 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:15.840 finger pointing that Democrats and liberals do that I actually 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:19.680 think this time around is unwarranted. And I'm fine to 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:21.840 stand on that, and people can tell me that I'm wrong. 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:25.240 But the fact is that in the three months that 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:29.880 Kamala Harris and Tim Walls had to create a campaign 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:34.120 and revive the Democratic Party that had lulled itself into 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:38.640 a place of despair around Joe Biden and complacency of like, 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.480 well this is what we have. Myself be included in 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:44.920 that that did not know even want to imagine having 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:47.240 a new candidate because I was just like, it's just 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:49.800 not going to work. I know, America. And the fact 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:54.680 is is that they did incredible work and brought together 0:13:55.520 --> 0:14:00.960 so many different factions of the Democratic Party that had 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:05.880 not been excited or interested or engaged in the last 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:09.360 four years. And so we also have to understand the 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:13.120 timeline that we were working on and like what was 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:16.520 at stake, and that Donald Trump and Republicans were able 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:19.560 to have a consistent message over the last four years, 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:23.320 with a consistent leader over the last four years that 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:28.120 didn't detract from the escalator in twenty fifteen. And so 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.440 that's not the same space that Democrats have been in. 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.560 And what pisses me off constantly is all of these 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:38.080 fucking establishment people that want to do the finger pointing, 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:39.920 that want to say, don't ever put up a person 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.080 of color again, don't ever put up a woman, don't 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:44.360 ever do this, and not get to the root of 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:48.320 the root, which is that if white supremacy didn't have 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:51.920 the value that it had for people, then they wouldn't 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:55.680 kill themselves to associate with it. And so you can't 0:14:55.720 --> 0:15:01.520 just have these large bullshit conversations with out actually getting 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:03.800 to the education of the route. 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:07.400 Well, I'll just be clear, I'm not blaming the Harris campaign, 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:07.960 I think for a thing. 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.640 No, No, I'm not you. I'm talking about I'm talking about 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:13.560 Big d DEM. I'm talking about all of the headlines. 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:15.360 I'm not talking about you specifically. 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:17.800 But I will say that I you know, I blame 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:20.480 Biden for not stepping down a year earlier and not 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:23.480 having an actual debate in the Democratic Party and not 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:25.920 having a primary. I think just having a three month 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:29.920 campaign it played into the idea that this was anointed, 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.040 that it was predetermined, that it was kind of that 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:34.240 kind of thing. So I think she was handed. She 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:36.960 did an incredible job with a really rough hand, and 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:39.960 the energy and the organization were pretty incredible given all that, 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:42.040 and the election actually turned out to be a lot 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:44.840 closer than the social media would lead you to believe. 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:48.280 So I think in all those cases that's true. But 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:50.280 I think ultimately, as you and I talked about, the 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:54.240 election came down to like a number of swing state 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:57.240 voters in a number of swing states, And in that regard, 0:15:57.360 --> 0:15:59.280 I do stand by kind of what I was saying 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.080 a couple of months ago when we talked, which is 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:05.480 it wasn't just about the candidate. It wasn't even about 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:10.280 the identity issues. I don't use the term white supremacy. 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:12.360 I don't even use it in Dying of Whiteness because 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.880 I don't think it's a useful way to like get 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:18.200 people to come over to our side. People get very defensive, 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:20.680 I think for me in my research, so I don't 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:23.160 use that, But I will say that my point always 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:25.800 is that the frameworks we use, which are always like 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:30.880 basically people hear it as more government and less entrepreneurialism. 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.960 And so remember when Kris first gave her convention speech, 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:36.480 and you and I talked, and I said, I thought 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.480 she should have been like more openly pro business and 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.480 more like libertarian sounding or something like that. It's actually 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:46.240 the frameworks through which we automatically say we're going to 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:49.040 have more government, or like for guns, it's automatically gun 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:53.280 safety means more regulations. I think those frameworks are going 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:55.800 to have it's just always going to be you're always 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.000 going to lose to a guy like Trump who's saying 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:00.960 more freedom and more entrepreneurialism can be rich like me. 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:02.800 And so I don't know if you remember this, but 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:05.720 right after her convention speech, which was great. I said, 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:08.919 I wish she would have nodded to entrepreneurialism, not to 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:11.240 say government is going to give small grants and things 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:13.800 like that to small businesses, but to say, this is 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:15.920 a land where we all want to get rich and 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.119 you know that kind of stuff. And so I just 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:21.600 think the frameworks we use are just at a disadvantage. 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:23.560 And we're seeing this in many other places too, where 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.760 people on one hand are electing authoritarians who are going 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:29.920 to really ramp up the government. But the liberal framing 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.960 of the role of government I think is going to 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:35.600 put many candidates at a disadvantage. And the question for 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:37.720 me is like, who could have overcome that? Who could 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:38.040 have helped? 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:41.640 You know one I'm going to And that's the thing 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.280 that I want people to like wrap their head around, 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:48.440 is that there wasn't some fictitious savior that was going 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:51.400 to come in and be able to do better than 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.720 what Kamala Harris did. There was no white man, the 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:58.080 Gavin Newsom or Prickser or whoever it was, that was 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:00.480 going to come in and be able because there would 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:04.480 still have been factions of the Democratic Party that would 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:06.639 have been like, this is not my candidate, this is 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:09.920 not who I want. There has been a tremendous amount 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:15.160 of misinformation and disinformation and lies and the inability of 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:19.760 the Democratic Party to break out and figure out like, 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:23.680 how are we moving against the Musk machine, how are 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:28.440 we moving against this spurt of disinformation, and recognizing that 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:33.240 when the Latino population, for instance, watched the Madison Square 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:37.280 Garden event and they're trashing Puerto Rico and blah blah, 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:41.400 instead of people aligning themselves with those that were going 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.560 to be oppressed, they said, I'm not Puerto rican so 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.119 he's not talking about me in the same way that 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:49.639 folks are just like, oh, my family's not going to 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:52.639 be deported because we're not criminals, so will be okay. 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:57.719 It's this idea of really of separating from rather than 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:01.879 building of community with like minded people and realizing that 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:06.520 actually we don't have the same values. That is fundamentally 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.840 what has been really hard for me over the last 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:13.600 two weeks is that we've always, through you know, Disney 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:17.160 and Hollywood and all of these things, been primed and 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:21.440 fed this idea that like good will win out, that 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:25.720 like hope will always beat out evil. And so now 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.560 when you're sitting back, and you're just like, oh, evil one. 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.800 Even if the margin is the smallest margin by which 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:35.320 a president has won an election in modern times, which 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:38.119 is the truth of where we are, it doesn't matter 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:41.000 because it's still one and that in and of itself 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:45.600 is suppressing people's ability to feel like they have the 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:49.280 energy to fight another day. So my question for you is, 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:54.439 we are a depressed people right now. Fifty percent of 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:59.480 the population feels absolutely exhausted and beaten down and oppressed. 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:02.679 And and guess what, Donald Trump hasn't actually picked up 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:08.960 the baton yet and started anything. What do you say 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:13.240 to people who right now are just like I'm tapping out, 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:15.679 I'm done, Like he's going to do his worst, and 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:18.320 let him do his worst, and like everybody's going to 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:20.800 be hurt and caught up in it. Some will get 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:23.160 it worse than others, just like I keep a look 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:27.160 at using the framework of COVID, that COVID hurt everybody, 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:31.800 but it hurt more vulnerable communities more. So what do 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:33.879 you say to those people? Jonathan? 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:36.840 Part of what I saw when I was researching Dyanga Whiteness, 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.720 Tennessee is a state with a history of centrism Tennessee 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:43.920 created ten Care, which was the template for the Affordable 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:47.359 Care Act. Tennessee had Al Gore as the Senator for 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:51.720 a long time. Tennessee had all these innovations and infrastructure, 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:56.879 and then he wasn't just like implicit bias or explicit bias. 0:20:56.960 --> 0:21:01.040 It's that they started taking away resources and making people 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:03.720 fight for resources, and all of a sudden, people became 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:08.800 incredibly tribal, and I mean everybody became really tribal. And 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:11.960 then it played out and then people were fed these 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:16.160 lines that were related to history. Some people were incredibly biased, 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:18.600 and other people just all of a sudden, we're in 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:21.600 a competitive scenario where you know, it's kind of like 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:25.159 the neuroscience exhibit with like ten rats and ten pieces 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:27.160 of cheese, and the rats all get along and ten 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:29.160 rats and two pieces of cheese and they all start 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:33.520 attacking each other. And so austerity politics, when you start 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:38.120 to take away money and resources and infrastructure and give 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:40.879 it to oligarchs, all of a sudden, people turn on 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:44.600 each other in incredibly tribal ways. That's what's happened in Russia. 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:48.159 All of a sudden people are afraid and not just money, resources, 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:53.719 but opportunities jobs, government sanctions, your driver's license, all those 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:56.439 kind of things, so those all become levers in a 0:21:56.440 --> 0:21:58.600 certain kind of way. And so I saw it happen 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:02.000 in Tennessee, where I've really honestly of kind of centrist 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:05.520 red state. All of a sudden, everybody started worrying about, oh, 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:08.000 other people are out for my stuff because there was 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:11.399 less stuff. And I think that's in a way a 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:13.919 lesson we should be studying really closely right now. Is 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:15.879 because we are going to take away a lot of 0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:18.640 money and give it to people like Elon Musk. Right now, 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:22.119 all these cuts to government are going to be cutting 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:26.639 away social programs to empower a bunch of other people. 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:28.320 And so the question is, like we need to be 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:31.880 looking to kind of alliance building in the era of 0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:35.240 I mean, like I find Hong Kong very terrifying right now, 0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:38.879 for example, because like a strong pro democracy protest movement 0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:43.040 is now being basically incarcerated out of existence. And so 0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:45.920 I think we need to look to places where people 0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:48.680