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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here as always

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Speaker 2: with Courtney Armstrong and Body Moven and listen. It is

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Speaker 2: March twenty fourth. Also my mother's birthday. Happy birthday, Mom,

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Speaker 2: yea yay, my most favorite immigrant in all the land.

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Speaker 2: We're so happy that you are healthy and well and

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Speaker 2: I love you. Because we have a stacked to night

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Speaker 2: of headlines. Justice will be served because in the Landmark case,

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Speaker 2: Meta has been found guilty as charge and they will

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Speaker 2: be having to pay three hundred and seventy five million

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Speaker 2: dollars in this case in New Mexico. And guess what,

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Speaker 2: there are many cases behind it, so it is just

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Speaker 2: the beginning. Also, the wife takes the stand against her husband.

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Speaker 2: He's the one that took her on that hike in

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Speaker 2: Hawaiian tried to throw her off the edge. Astounding testimony.

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Speaker 2: Plus we're getting a little insight into how exactly Jeffrey

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Speaker 2: Epstein was able to get back into these elite circles

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Speaker 2: after he was registered as a pedophile, who gave him

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Speaker 2: entrance back into the big time club. Also, the shocking

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Speaker 2: autopsy of the Tepe's. You'll remember Monique and Spencer Tepe.

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Speaker 2: He was the prominent dentist in Ohio. In the double homicide,

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Speaker 2: the lives were taking so senselessly, and Joseph Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 2: our very favorite forensics expert and host of the hit

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Speaker 2: podcast body Bags, is here to break down the shocking

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Speaker 2: autopsy results. Ladies.

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Speaker 3: Happy Tuesday, Tuesday, We made it.

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Speaker 2: We made it. Boy, this has been one heck of

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Speaker 2: a Tuesday in my world. I don't know about you, guys,

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Speaker 2: but there is something in the air. I walked into

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Speaker 2: a spiderweb, you guys, Oh wow, into a spider web.

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Speaker 3: My hair was covered with spider head like spider web silk.

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Speaker 2: Oh no no.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if there were any bugs in the

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Speaker 3: spider worb or not, but I immediately took a shower.

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Speaker 3: I had to.

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Speaker 2: Well, we get her its benefit.

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Speaker 4: We get the benefit because body showered and blew her

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Speaker 4: hair out, and she is looking sleek and ready for

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Speaker 4: the town.

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Speaker 2: So I'm welcome back to something exactly right, and listen.

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Speaker 2: We are playing tonight with a little bit of video

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Speaker 2: for the very first time. So forgive us because we

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Speaker 2: don't know where we're looking and what we're doing. But

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Speaker 2: I couldn't possibly be happier to be here with you

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Speaker 2: guys tonight.

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Speaker 3: So pull up a proverbial chair.

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Speaker 2: Everyone, thank you for listening, and welcome to the kitchen table.

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Speaker 2: Because we have a lot to unpack. Where should we

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Speaker 2: get started.

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Speaker 4: Meta medas some mega big news. So there's two cases

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Speaker 4: actually involving Meta that are unfolding at the same time.

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Speaker 4: But one of them just resulted in a massive Stephanie,

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Speaker 4: as you mentioned, three hundred and seventy five million million

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Speaker 4: dollar jury verdict. This is out of New Mexico and

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Speaker 4: it was over child exploitation claims.

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Speaker 2: That's one we'll dig into.

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Speaker 4: Another one is happening right now in Los Angeles, and

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Speaker 4: in that one we've spoken about, it's where a young

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Speaker 4: plaintiff going under a pseudonym, says our social media addiction

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Speaker 4: led to years and years of mental health struggles. And

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Speaker 4: you know, again, both are separate, but they're also both

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Speaker 4: raising very serious questions about how these platforms are designed,

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Speaker 4: who's responsible when things go wrong?

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Speaker 2: So this case, Meta is really responsible at this point,

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Speaker 2: even though they denied, denied, denied, even just watching Mark

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Speaker 2: Zuckerberg up there acting like he has no idea that

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Speaker 2: there's no problems with social media. It's certainly not having

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Speaker 2: an impact on our kids. Well, it turns out New

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Speaker 2: Mexico disagrees.

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Speaker 3: So this one's different than the one we spoke about

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Speaker 3: last night, right, this one is a totally different case.

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Speaker 2: Have we talked about this one yet?

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Speaker 4: I don't think we really have, so Okay, yeah, if

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Speaker 4: we did, it was a while ago, so let me

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Speaker 4: give you the TikTok. But again, as of today, it

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Speaker 4: was a New Mexico jury who ordered Meta to pay

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Speaker 4: that whopping fine, and they found that the company violated

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Speaker 4: state consumer protection laws.

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Speaker 2: So that's what it was based on.

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Speaker 4: And this lawsuit was filed back in twenty twenty three

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Speaker 4: and it was by a New Mexico Attorney General, Raoul Torres,

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Speaker 4: And it was a huge undercover investigation into the platform

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Speaker 4: that preceded.

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Speaker 3: That undercover in they went undercover on face.

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Speaker 2: Literally, yes, they actually made profiles that were secret profiles

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Speaker 2: that were faked obviously only to see that in fact,

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Speaker 2: they were hit up, as you know, these fake profiles,

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Speaker 2: they were being hit up for sexual content and the

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Speaker 2: proof was in the pudding. Oh dear, Yeah, exactly right.

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Speaker 4: And the trial went for six weeks, which is quite

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Speaker 4: a while, and that testimony from Meta executives, engineers, whistleblowers

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Speaker 4: as well as child safety experts, and you know, as

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Speaker 4: Stephanie said, these fake accounts posing as children, very quickly

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Speaker 4: they got contacted by adults sending sexually explicit messages and material.

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Speaker 4: So which is also we've known this to be true.

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Speaker 4: Meta wanted it not to be true, I suppose, But

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Speaker 4: this case is considered one of the first of its

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Speaker 4: specific kind to reach a jury.

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Speaker 2: So there's that one. What do we think. I think

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Speaker 2: it's so major, and I gotta be honest with you.

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Speaker 2: I jumped up and down because this feels like one

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Speaker 2: more crack in the in the in the whole big

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Speaker 2: infrastructure here, because we know that social media is having

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Speaker 2: a terrible impact. We know that so many people have

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Speaker 2: made so much money on the backs of our kids,

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Speaker 2: and it seems like those days are dwindling, and it

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Speaker 2: feels like, for the first time in a long time,

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Speaker 2: justice is really creeping in and it's long overdue.

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Speaker 4: It's long overdue. And in this trial, evidence also included

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Speaker 4: internal company documents and it suggested, or I guess the

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Speaker 4: jury believes it proved that executives were aware of risk

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Speaker 4: but failed to fully address them. And the state claimed

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Speaker 4: that metas platforms acted as a breeding ground for predators

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Speaker 4: and the platform itself enabled these connections that led to

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Speaker 4: the exploitation.

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Speaker 2: That's what the finding is. It's pretty sickening. It's sickening

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Speaker 2: that they need to solve though. I mean, people are

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Speaker 2: but if people are being whistleblowers, By the way, to

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Speaker 2: be a whistleblower, you have to give back and step

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Speaker 2: away from your job. Right, these are very big jobs.

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Speaker 2: So if you're working internally there and you become a whistleblower,

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Speaker 2: guess what, you don't get to work there anymore. You're

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Speaker 2: putting your own livelihood on the line. So in that case,

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Speaker 2: thank goodness, they were able to not only find real

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Speaker 2: people that could testify that were in the beehive at META,

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Speaker 2: who really spoke to the fact that this has not

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Speaker 2: been handled correctly internally. And the solve this is part

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Speaker 2: of it body because really nothing is going to matter

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Speaker 2: if they don't get hit in the wallet period. It's

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Speaker 2: very clear that this elite class really doesn't care about

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Speaker 2: us at all. Frankly, they made us all sign up

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Speaker 2: for free. We all jumped right in. Add COVID to

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Speaker 2: the equation. Every child in America had to be taught online,

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Speaker 2: so we had to participate in social media to some degree,

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Speaker 2: at least speaking for myself as an adult. So you know,

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Speaker 2: they were denying that there was anything wrong with these algorithms,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. And the truth is it was a breeding

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Speaker 2: ground for predators. That's a major, major step in the

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Speaker 2: right direction. That's a solve.

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Speaker 4: It is, although I will point out one thing that

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Speaker 4: has come to bear, and so Meta has been expanding

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Speaker 4: end to end encryption across its platforms, so that means

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Speaker 4: messages are more private.

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Speaker 2: Okay, sounds good.

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Speaker 4: However, it also means they're harder to monitor and it actually.

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Speaker 3: Can't flag those messages for keywords and right, exactly right.

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Speaker 4: And so it's very problematic because one of the internal

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Speaker 4: estimates showed that change of making them more private could

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Speaker 4: cut the reporting of child exploitation up to sixty five percent.

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Speaker 2: How convenient, right, Well.

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Speaker 3: I mean Listen, there is a scale here that we

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Speaker 3: have to take into account. Right, there's privacy and the

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Speaker 3: ability to do what you want on social media, right, yep,

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Speaker 3: there's that side of the scale, and the other side

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Speaker 3: of the scale is, well, well, you know, as adults,

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Speaker 3: we have to protect children. And right now, this ruling,

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Speaker 3: which I think is you know, obviously great, you know,

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Speaker 3: to keep children safe, it's tilting the scale. So our

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Speaker 3: privacy and things that we want to be able to

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Speaker 3: do on social media are going to be hindered from

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Speaker 3: the point forward. And it's something that we're going to

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Speaker 3: have to accept. And we can't be like, I'm being censored.

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Speaker 3: I'm da da da da, because that's what's going to happen.

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Speaker 3: Everyone's going to start saying, oh, well, Facebook, you know,

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Speaker 3: Instagram is censoring me. Now, yeah they are.

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Speaker 2: You are censoring you against what sexual content? Fine, no,

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Speaker 2: let that be censored. This is a slippery slope. That's

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Speaker 2: my point.

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Speaker 3: This is a slippery slope because this is just one

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Speaker 3: brick in that uh section two thirty breakdown. M And

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Speaker 3: once those those protections for social media companies are eradicated,

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Speaker 3: everything we say on the Internet is going to be censored.

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Speaker 3: Because they're going to be held liable for everything that

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Speaker 3: you personally do on each platform.

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Speaker 2: That's fine. How about the fact that if I'm in

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Speaker 2: the real world and not on social media, I can't

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Speaker 2: just walk out of my house. For sure, we did

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Speaker 2: into something completely inappropriate because listen, that would be illegal.

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Speaker 2: And I agree basically online we should all be behaving

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Speaker 2: under the same standards. And if we're going to get

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Speaker 2: censored because of some sexual content to help kids not

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Speaker 2: get hit up by pedophiles, I'm on board.

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Speaker 3: But it's not just sexual conduct right now. That's what

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Speaker 3: it is. And that's what a slippery slope is. It

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Speaker 3: starts with one thing, and now I can't post my

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Speaker 3: Faberge eggs on you know, uh, Instagram because somehow it's

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Speaker 3: offensive to somebody. So this is this is how it

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Speaker 3: starts though. So I'm just saying, like, this is a

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Speaker 3: really good step in the right direction. I am on

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Speaker 3: board with that, but we have to be careful of

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Speaker 3: what we asked for.

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Speaker 2: Who would possibly censor your faberget eggs.

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Speaker 3: I'm just using well right now, nobody right.

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Speaker 2: And right back, nobody sound perfect and beautiful. And I

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Speaker 2: know a Faberge egg when I see that.

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Speaker 3: I don't even know why I said that out where

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Speaker 3: did that come from?

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Speaker 4: But yeah, but what it does is it speaks to

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Speaker 4: you know, so many people. We're all like, oh my gosh, privacy.

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Speaker 4: You know, we've been talking about it with all of

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Speaker 4: the Nest cameras for example, right exactly, So with Facebook

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Speaker 4: doing the encryption that protects our acy, but tightening that

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Speaker 4: also increases child exploitation.

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Speaker 2: It's harder to monitor through launch for keywords, right, yeah, correct,

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Speaker 2: So I mean, body is it'll be It'll be interesting

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Speaker 2: how it plays out.

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Speaker 4: So I'm going to take the take the win and

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Speaker 4: as you said, have them be hit in the pocket.

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Speaker 4: That's great, and it will unfold and there will be repercussions.

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Speaker 3: Right. This is true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio, where we're

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Speaker 3: talking to crime all the time. We're right in the

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Speaker 3: middle of this somewhat unheard of ruling against Meta and

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Speaker 3: we're having a little, a little disagreement, but not you know,

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Speaker 3: nothing crazy. But what's what else? What else do we have, Courtney?

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Speaker 3: What else is happening with this Meta stuff?

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Speaker 4: Okay, so there's another case and this one, this case

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Speaker 4: seems to be at a tipping point Okay, So this

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Speaker 4: is a case we have been speaking about, and it's

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Speaker 4: about social media addiction, and this is where twenty year

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Speaker 4: old plaintiff, the pseudonym is Kaylee GM. Kaylee GM testified

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Speaker 4: that her shruggles began as young as nine years old

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Speaker 4: because of heavy social media use. Well, closing arguments wrapped

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Speaker 4: after about a month of testimony and closing arguments wrap

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Speaker 4: back on March twelfth. Jurors began deliberating on the thirteenth

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Speaker 4: of March.

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Speaker 2: That's quite a while.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a lot of weeks ago, right, And so

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Speaker 4: it seems so the jury they've been reviewing testimony from

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Speaker 4: the experts, from the therapist and asking for clarifying questions.

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Speaker 4: But it seems like they may be having some difficulty

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Speaker 4: reaching a unanimous decision. They appear divided on key issues,

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Speaker 4: and the judge has since and shocked them.

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Speaker 2: They have to keep deliberating.

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Speaker 4: Unfortunately, a hung jury or partial retrial it's now a

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Speaker 4: real possibility given the amount of time.

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Speaker 2: And you know that they're sequestered as well, this particular

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Speaker 2: you know jury pool that is now you know, debating

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Speaker 2: this behind closed doors. Do they know about this verdict

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Speaker 2: in New Mexico. I assume they're sequestered and maybe do not.

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Speaker 2: I wonder if that would have an influence if they did.

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Speaker 3: They're sequestered in a civil turn.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, not sequestered. But you know you're not supposed to.

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Speaker 2: You know, look at media relating to the case that

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Speaker 2: you're discussing, right, Yeah, so you know, and they're behind

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Speaker 2: closed doors when they're deliberating, of course, So is this

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Speaker 2: something that they're aware of that this new Mexico verdict,

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Speaker 2: which frankly kind of came out of nowhere. We haven't

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Speaker 2: been covering this every night. We've been covering the Los

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Speaker 2: Angeles case. And remember behind that is another two hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty plus cases. So this is one step in

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Speaker 2: the right direction. Listen, I agree with you on slippery slopes.

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Speaker 2: We all love free speech, we all like to express ourselves.

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Speaker 2: But I don't know, it's not just from dancing videos

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Speaker 2: to pedophilia, which we're now seeing with roadblocks. We're seeing

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Speaker 2: all these horrible cases, and unfortunately, what was maybe set

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Speaker 2: up initially as something that was for connection and community

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Speaker 2: has kind of evolved to not be so much the case.

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Speaker 2: And I just think we need to recalibrate period. No,

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Speaker 2: I mean it's absolutely true.

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Speaker 4: The amount of how I mean, body you say yourself

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Speaker 4: all the time, how the internet is the new crime scene,

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Speaker 4: and it is and pervasively it is for children. And Stephanie,

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Speaker 4: you said there's you know, more than two hundred and

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Speaker 4: fifty cases behind this case. This outcome might shape more

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Speaker 4: than sixteen hundred similar.

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Speaker 2: Cases that are coming behind. That's exactly right. But wait,

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Speaker 2: hold up for a second, because I you know, but

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Speaker 2: I know your feelings on kids should not be on

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Speaker 2: the internet. It's not always impossible that, you know, kids

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Speaker 2: really cannot be on the internet. They're literally on tablets

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Speaker 2: in everything in kindergarten, that's where they do it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's It's different from having a Facebook count.

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Speaker 3: I'm not talking about logging into the school website and

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Speaker 3: downloading your homework or the parents logging into the school

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Speaker 3: website to check out a report card. I'm talking about

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Speaker 3: kids shouldn't have Facebook accounts, they shouldn't have Instagram accounts,

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Speaker 3: they shouldn't have snapchack account they shouldn't have TikTok accounts.

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Speaker 2: There's a reason it's not they should That's not the

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Speaker 2: real world. And we can now make that decision moving

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Speaker 2: forward for the next generation. But the generation that really

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Speaker 2: is in question right now, the genies out of the

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Speaker 2: bottles on social media. We need to kind of rein

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Speaker 2: it in a little bit. And yeah, these crime scenes

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Speaker 2: are real. We wouldn't hand a gun to a kid.

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Speaker 2: It seeming like this is very similar.

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Speaker 3: Well maybe well a year after a cliffside attack in Hawaii,

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Speaker 3: durors here chilling testimony from the victim and later forensics

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Speaker 3: expert Joseph Scott Morgan joins us to break down the

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Speaker 3: autopsy report in the Ohio double mortar. Keep it right here.

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Speaker 3: True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to your crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and body move in. And let's remember we

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Speaker 2: have producer Taha with us tonight, and of course Sam

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Speaker 2: and Adam are standing by the phones eight eight eight

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Speaker 2: three one crime Jump in, join the conversation live or

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Speaker 2: keep those talkbacks coming. So this case with this husband,

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Speaker 2: the anesthesiologist, the doctor who takes his beloved wife on

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Speaker 2: a hike in Hawaii and then decides to maybe toss

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Speaker 2: her off a cliff. Oh but wait, that didn't work. Instead,

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Speaker 2: let's beat her with a rock with syringes in my

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Speaker 2: back pocket that could potentially kill her.

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Speaker 5: Hm.

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Speaker 2: So she takes the stand against her husband today and

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Speaker 2: I have to say it was harrowing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So, yeah, the trial's continuing for Gernhardt Koenig. He's

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Speaker 3: the anisesiologist you were just talking about. I mean, he

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Speaker 3: tried to kill his wife during this like romantic you know,

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Speaker 3: cliff side hike. He's like, hey, babe, let's take this

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Speaker 3: great selfie hanging off this cliff. And she's like, no,

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Speaker 3: I'm good, I'm not going anywhere near that, and like

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Speaker 3: starts to walk away and he's like, no way, come here.

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Speaker 3: I mean, listen, this guy. He had syringes in his

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Speaker 3: back pocket. What were they full of? He's an anesthesiologist. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: these I mean, these people when when you go to

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Speaker 3: an antithesiologist, your life is literally in limbo. When they're

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean, they can like just breathe

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Speaker 3: wrong and you're just done for right. I mean, it's

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Speaker 3: the fact that he had these syringes is just so

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Speaker 3: it's so it's just so bad. But thankfully she survived

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Speaker 3: and she later filed for divorce, and she's accusing him

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Speaker 3: of abuse prior to that incident.

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Speaker 2: Now, so the final straw for her, By the way,

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Speaker 2: there were bystanders there too.

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Speaker 3: Wouldn't it be yours?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously, and she was. There was two people walking

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Speaker 2: up that you know, hike as well. Oh god, thank god,

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Speaker 2: and they were smart enough and caring enough to actually

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Speaker 2: step in and call nine one one and basically say

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Speaker 2: there's a guy at the top of the hill here

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Speaker 2: trying to kill a woman, Please help. And the call

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Speaker 2: is harrowing, and her testimony is extraordinary.

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Speaker 3: Right, I think we have testimony from the wife right now,

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Speaker 3: let's go ahead and play that.

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Speaker 6: I'm screaming and he's telling me shed that job. Nobody's

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Speaker 6: nobody's going to hear you out here, nobody's coming to

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Speaker 6: save you. And I was screaming, and so he's covering

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Speaker 6: my mouth and stuff, and then we had this moment

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Speaker 6: of like it seems like he takes a deep breath

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Speaker 6: and then he just starts hitting my face in my

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Speaker 6: head with it and he's on top of me. He

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Speaker 6: had a syringe in his hand and he says, hold still.

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Speaker 3: Nobody's going to hear you out here, No, like he

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Speaker 3: knew that this was like a remote location, like this

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Speaker 3: was totally planned. I think he just kind of It's

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Speaker 3: just my opinion. I think he used the idea that

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Speaker 3: she was like, no, I'm not cool with that picture.

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Speaker 3: It's too scary, as like the impotence for the attack

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Speaker 3: because of what he said to her, nobody's going to

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Speaker 3: hear you out here, and then he covers her mouth.

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Speaker 2: And if you see the photos of her, she was

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Speaker 2: beaten so vadly. I mean, she's barely recognizable. It took

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Speaker 2: her weeks and weeks to recover. It's disgusting now by

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Speaker 2: the way, he claims he's innocent and that he was

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Speaker 2: defending himself because they had gotten into a bit of

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Speaker 2: a squabble because he was finding sexy texts on her

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Speaker 2: phone months prior, so apparently she was having a flirty

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Speaker 2: text exchange with somebody at her office allegedly, allegedly allegedly,

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Speaker 2: and he felt as though they were going to have

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Speaker 2: this big part, felt romantic rekindling, and they were going

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Speaker 2: to discuss this big issue, and apparently that turned a

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Speaker 2: little heated. And he claims that he wasn't trying to

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Speaker 2: kill her. He was just trying to stay alive himself.

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Speaker 3: He just happens to have syringes of something in his

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Speaker 3: back that wasn't premeditated.

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Speaker 4: Well, the defense didn't speak to that point when they

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Speaker 4: were talking about, you know what happened. It was that

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Speaker 4: the wife, Ariel, actually went first with a rock, and

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Speaker 4: then all the defendant did was, yeah, hit her back

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Speaker 4: two times, not the multiple that Aeriel and the other

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Speaker 4: witnesses testified to.

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Speaker 3: Right. So, these hikers, they that were nearby reported hearing

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Speaker 3: screams of help, help me, and it drew their immediate

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Speaker 3: attention and prompted, you know, multiple witnesses to run towards

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Speaker 3: the scene to find out where this was coming from. Right, So,

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Speaker 3: those eye witnesses, including Sarah Buschbaum and Amanda Morris, are

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Speaker 3: now like they're central to the prosecution's timeline describing what

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Speaker 3: they saw in real time. And we have a clip

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Speaker 3: of Amanda Morris, who's one of those witnesses right here.

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Speaker 7: After the woman said help me, He's trying to kill me.

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Speaker 7: How did you and Sarah react?

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Speaker 8: We started to take steps back just because we were

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Speaker 8: pretty close to the edge and we were afraid that

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Speaker 8: something could happen to us and that we were in danger.

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Speaker 7: Did you inside our response.

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Speaker 8: Yes, we said, we're not leaving, We're just taking a

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Speaker 8: step back for our own safety. We are calling in

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Speaker 8: one one.

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Speaker 7: Other than asking you to call on that one one.

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Speaker 7: At that point in time, did the woman say anything else?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 7: When was the next time you saw the one?

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Speaker 8: Shortly after she was crawling towards us?

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Speaker 7: Can you describe how she was doing that?

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Speaker 8: On her stomach and hands and knees.

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Speaker 2: I get chills from head to doe, honestly. And they

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Speaker 2: were putting their lives in the hand, their lives, you know,

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Speaker 2: ahead of them say you know they were putting their

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Speaker 2: own lives on the line. I'm trying to say again,

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Speaker 2: people just walk away sometimes they don't want to get involved.

404
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Speaker 2: So for these two young women to see a man

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Speaker 2: attacking another, not knowing the circumstances at all. He could

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Speaker 2: have had a gun, He could have had some sort

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Speaker 2: of a weapon that would have hurt them too. There

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00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 2: could have been other men in the background. They had

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Speaker 2: no idea. And they are two of our heroes and

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Speaker 2: I'm so proud of them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, No, for sure, leave their nurses.

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Speaker 2: Is that I don't know, is that right, or at.

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Speaker 4: Least one of them is a nurse, But anyway, they

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Speaker 4: are great.

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Speaker 3: It's an incredible visual if you think about it, like

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Speaker 3: she's crawling, probably covered in blood because your head bleeds

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Speaker 3: profusely with even just a minor cut, crawling, you know,

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Speaker 3: just covered in blood, crawling toward them. That must have

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Speaker 3: been a very very scary moment. Like so the prosecutors

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Speaker 3: you heard Chris van Marder there, he's the prosecutor in

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Speaker 3: this case, and they're saying this was a sustained and

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Speaker 3: deliberate attack and it wasn't just a momentary altercation. He

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Speaker 3: didn't just fly off the handle. This is something that

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Speaker 3: you know was deliberate. And the jurorsir testimony that the

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Speaker 3: antiseesiologist Bernard Koning was seen on top of and standing

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Speaker 3: over his wife, striking her with this rock, and then

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Speaker 3: they said, you know, she was covered in blood with

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Speaker 3: you know, the nine War one caller saying there's a

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Speaker 3: man trying to kill her. Ariel, the wife testified he

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Speaker 3: grabbed her by the hair and slammed her face into

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Speaker 3: the ground and tried to push her off the cliff,

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Speaker 3: which is what she was afraid of.

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Speaker 2: To begin with, and even in her testimony to in

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Speaker 2: Ariel's testimony against her husband, by the way, she's looking

435
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 2: at him in the courtroom right again, he's denying all

436
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 2: of saying it was self defense. And she was sort

437
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,200
Speaker 2: of pleading with him as he was trying to kill

438
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 2: her allegedly, allegedly allegedly, as he's beating her and trying

439
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 2: to kill her, she was trying to kind of basically

440
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,919
Speaker 2: beg him to stop, and she was like, for our kids,

441
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 2: for our kids, you're going to be in prison and

442
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 2: I'm going to be dead. Our kids will have no one.

443
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 2: And still he consistently went for it because of some

444
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 2: dopey texts. And by the way, yes she filed for divorce,

445
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 2: and yes she said she had been abused before. Codd

446
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 2: only knows what's been happening in that household prior. Thank goodness,

447
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 2: she got out right.

448
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 4: No. Absolutely, if you are just joining us, this is

449
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,879
Speaker 4: true crime tonight. I'm Courtney Harmstrong. I'm here as always

450
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 4: with Stephanie Leidecker and Body Movin, and we're discussing the

451
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 4: case of the accused gerhart Koning. He's the doctor in Hawaii.

452
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 4: He's accused of trying to kill his wife Ariel while

453
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 4: on a hike on a cliff and joining us right

454
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 4: now to help talk through the forensics is forensic expert

455
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 4: Everyone's favorite, Joseph Scott Morgan, host.

456
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 3: Of the hit podcast body Bags.

457
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 2: Welcome Josee with you guys, Oh, our favorite night of

458
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 2: the week. Also, we're so glad that you're here. And

459
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 2: nobody breaks down some of this scary stuff better than you.

460
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 2: How about the fact that this guy is saying that

461
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 2: he was going on a hike, this was a spontaneous

462
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 2: fight that broke out, he's defending himself. Yet he has

463
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 2: these syringes in his back pocket on this hike. Doesn't

464
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 2: that really point to premeditation?

465
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 9: Yeah, of course it does. And particularly when you consider

466
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 9: what this guy's background is as an sociologist, there's no

467
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 9: telling what kind of agent that he may be conveying.

468
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 9: And you know, I think about it as he can

469
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 9: acquire all this stuff legally, and he also understands he

470
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 9: also understands lethality. You know, you know what outcomes are here,

471
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 9: and of course that's being implied, and again that's a

472
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 9: that's a terrifying thing. And even you know the thing

473
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 9: about it is certain agents that can be applied to individuals.

474
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 9: You can push them us to the edge, so it's

475
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 9: not necessarily detectable, but then you really push them over

476
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 9: the edge when they're out of control of their physical

477
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 9: physical body and you know, their mind and their senses,

478
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 9: and yeah, you know, this is kind of shaping up

479
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 9: almost like a perfect homicide scenario. And uh, you know,

480
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 9: kind of a stealthy, stealthy attack. Yeah, i'd say, yeah,

481
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 9: and answer to your question, yeah, pre Memphis.

482
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 3: So the idea, Joseph, what you're saying is that he

483
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 3: was going to basically put her out with whatever was

484
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 3: in the syringes, which by the way, we're not recovered

485
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 3: on the scene, and then push her over the cliff

486
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 3: because then it would look like she just felt because

487
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 3: it would these agents that they use would have been

488
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 3: undetectable in our system.

489
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 9: Uh yeah, and or or at least and he might

490
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 9: be counting on the fact that that certainly an autopsy

491
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 9: would not be done, but that's just not the case,

492
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 9: and that that's again you know, not to go down

493
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 9: too many rabbit trails here, but I have to again

494
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 9: advocating for autopsies. This is why you always do an autopsy,

495
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 9: a traumatically related event, and a death. And thank god

496
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 9: that this did not wind up as a fatality. However,

497
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 9: do I hope that people understand why we do these

498
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 9: because we always get questioned, you know, like this is

499
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 9: obviously an accident, you know not? Yeah, yeah, we do.

500
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 9: It's precisely because of events like this.

501
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 4: I have a question, Joseph. And thankfully this ended as

502
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 4: well as it could. I suppose for the victim ariel cooning. However, forensically,

503
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 4: in a cliff side case such as this had, it

504
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 4: had a more terrible ending. How if it all can investigate?

505
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 4: Is determine a push versus a fall?

506
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 9: Very difficult? Oh my lord? Yeah, very good. Difficult. There's

507
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 9: been several of these cases over the years. I'm thinking

508
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 9: about and maybe you guys remember her name, Remember the

509
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 9: beautiful young woman that was found hanging off the balcony

510
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 9: in San Diego. I can't remember, I remember off the

511
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 9: off the top of my head. And the idea was

512
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 9: was was she suspended by someone else or did she

513
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 9: actually do this herself? And that was one of the

514
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 9: big that was the crux, if you will, of the

515
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 9: defensive argument in that case. And so and this that's

516
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 9: that's certainly not the only case. It's very very difficult.

517
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 9: I've had, guys. I got to tell you something real quick.

518
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 9: I've been standing on top of skyscrapers before, twenty six

519
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 9: stories up, thirty stories up and looking at the edge,

520
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 9: and I had someone that went over, and I'm thinking

521
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 9: to myself as an investigator in that moment, I'm thinking,

522
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 9: how can I prove or disprove this? Because all I

523
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 9: know is gravity, you know, and there's no evidence. There's

524
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 9: no evidence, and so you always look around the ground

525
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 9: see if there's a scuffle, you know, that sort of thing,

526
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 9: because generally, if somebody just kind of falls, you're not

527
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 9: going to have any kind of indication at that point

528
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 9: in time on the top end that there's you know,

529
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 9: like scuffling or multiple shoe prints that sort of thing.

530
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 9: That's one of the ways we can kind of narrow

531
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 9: it down. But it's very very difficult. That's a great question, course.

532
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a great question.

533
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 4: There was another case which Stephanie will remember from many

534
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 4: many moons ago that we covered, and it was a

535
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 4: bride there on their honeymoon and this young bride pushed

536
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 4: her groom off of a Cliff, And part of what

537
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 4: helped solve the case was things that the woman who

538
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 4: was accused of pushing and killing her husband, she'd navigated

539
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 4: to have him take out of his pockets and take

540
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:20,959
Speaker 4: off of his person.

541
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 2: So it was sort of odd.

542
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 4: Jewelry that had come off and some things out of

543
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 4: his pockets, so that, like you said, looking around the scene, Joseph.

544
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 9: Yeah, and you have to really you're looking for hues

545
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 9: on the part of any kind of witnesses. So a

546
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 9: lot of circumstantial information is very very important in a

547
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 9: case like that, and also familial or relationship histories as well.

548
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 9: You know, what, was there any preexisting animosity between the parties,

549
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 9: you know, had anything been going on? Big ups and

550
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 9: downs and relationships, all those sorts of things, And so

551
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 9: you really have to do your due diligence, and as

552
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 9: an investigator did again, you know, I think thankfully because

553
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 9: you have these brave women. Oh my lord, you know

554
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 9: that that Holy smokes. I don't know that I would

555
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 9: have had the intestinal fortitude to do that, of course. Yeah, yeah,

556
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 9: but you know you see that and you think, oh wow, uh,

557
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 9: they've got witnesses in this case. Many times these things

558
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 9: kind of happen in a vacuum, guys, you know, and

559
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 9: the idea is to get the subject isolated and cut

560
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 9: off from any kind of help that they might have,

561
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 9: all right, And that's that's really kind of the creepy

562
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 9: part of this, right. You know, you're thinking you're going

563
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 9: on a hike, you think that you're going to be

564
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:39,479
Speaker 9: one with nature.

565
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 3: And it's a romantic thing too, and it is.

566
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,479
Speaker 9: Yeah, and that's that's how it's sold. Can we come

567
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 9: up here in talk, you know, it's just clear that out. Yeah,

568
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 9: let's let's work this out. And of course there's never

569
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 9: in any intent to do that mm hmm.

570
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 2: Absolutely sickening well.

571
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 3: Into the But the defence is, you know, they're saying

572
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 3: that the state has not proven any intent to kill.

573
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 3: They called it a chaotic and emotional confrontation, not an

574
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 3: attempted murder. And you know, on Cross the defense they

575
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 3: focused heavily on what they described as an emotional affair

576
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 3: between the right the wife, Ariel, and a colleague and

577
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 3: something they say damage the marriage and triggered the underlying tension.

578
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 2: It was totally her fault.

579
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 3: Obviously, can be a brain of saying what the defense

580
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 3: said yep, give me a break.

581
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 2: And man oh man, we are so happy as always

582
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 2: to have Joseph Scott Morgan back with us tonight. He

583
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 2: is our most favorite forensics expert and also the host

584
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 2: of the hit podcast body Bags. If you haven't seen

585
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 2: it or heard it, please check it out. You could

586
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 2: also grab it on YouTube. So congrats, Joseph. We have

587
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 2: literally seen you everywhere. You are on every show all

588
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 2: the time, and it is so satisfying and you're crushing it.

589
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 2: So keep up all the great work.

590
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 9: It's my favorite one love being with you.

591
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 2: Don't you forget it. We're so glad that you're here.

592
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 3: So the type of jealous yeah, exactly, you know.

593
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 2: Right, well, the Tepe murders, we were all so devastated

594
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 2: when this happened. You'll remember Monique and Spencer Tepe. You know,

595
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 2: Spencer was a very prominent dentist in the area in

596
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 2: Ohio and suddenly they're murdered, double homicide in their bedroom.

597
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 2: Their kids were sleeping just feet away when these murders happened,

598
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 2: and it really went unsolved for quite some time, only

599
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: to find out Monique's ex husband from like a decade prior,

600
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 2: he had been stalking and stalking, drove through multiple states

601
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 2: to get to this scene, and he took their lives

602
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 2: in a way that is unspeakable. And now that we

603
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 2: have the autopsy results, it is even worse than we imagined,

604
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: right Joseph, Yeah, yeah.

605
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 9: It really is. Because it's one thing. It's one thing

606
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 9: for us to kind of chat it up and talk

607
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 9: about what we think happened, but you know, when you

608
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 9: see it in black and white, and you know the

609
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 9: person that has dictated this report was physically there, and

610
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 9: if they were actually in contact with these two precious

611
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 9: humans remains and they were bearing witness to this horror

612
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 9: and these babies that are left behind, now, yeah, it

613
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 9: really brings it home. Right. You know, we can speculate

614
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 9: a lot, you know, but when you get a you

615
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 9: get an autopsy report in your hand, it's it's a

616
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 9: completely different animal at that point.

617
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 4: Don I just want to give a little bit of

618
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 4: background if you're not super familiar with this case. So

619
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 4: what we're talking about is, as Stephanie mentioned, dentist Spencer

620
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 4: Tepe and his wife Unique Tepe back on December thirtieth

621
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 4: of twenty twenty five, so just really a couple of

622
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 4: months ago, right, they were found shots to death inside

623
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 4: their home in Columbus, Ohio, and this was after a

624
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 4: welfare check was requested. If you've heard about this story,

625
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 4: Spencer and Miniutepe were very well loved because they had

626
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,399
Speaker 4: lots of people looking for them quickly and saying they

627
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 4: are so responsible, something must be wrong, and indeed it was.

628
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 4: And both victims were located on the second floor of

629
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 4: their home with what we now know to be sixteen

630
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 4: gunshot wounds. And yeah, the autopsy is newly released, so

631
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 4: take it away, Joseph.

632
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 9: Yeah, so let me let me ask everybody, well you guys,

633
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 9: and then I'll ask everybody at home, do you know

634
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 9: kind of think about this or where we're listening to

635
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 9: us right now, do you have a particular side of

636
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 9: the bed that you prefer to sleep on? I think

637
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 9: that most of us, you know, and so you're oriented

638
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 9: to that. And you know, we were just talking about

639
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 9: how the autopsy report breeze life, you know, into an event,

640
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 9: and just so that I can you know, kind of

641
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 9: paint it. Imagine imagine a married couple they you know,

642
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 9: maybe at some point in time in their relationship they said,

643
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 9: well I want this side, and you take that side,

644
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 9: and that's going to be your common practice every single

645
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 9: night and get you get a view, you know, within

646
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 9: within their world. Here, just when we're talking about Spencer alone,

647
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 9: his his gunshot wounds are essentially on vocally located on

648
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 9: the left side of his body. So we begin to

649
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 9: understand that if he is attacked on the left side

650
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 9: and there are multiple gunshots that he has sustained to

651
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 9: a variety of different anatomical locations in his body. You

652
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 9: move over to Monique and hers are on her right

653
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 9: aspect right, and this is something that you might not

654
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 9: necessarily have painted for you in a news report or

655
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 9: something like that, but when you see it in the

656
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 9: auto types of report, and this also speaks to something else.

657
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 9: I think that it's critical here, and that is, whoever

658
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 9: we have someone that is obviously accused but will say,

659
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 9: you know, allegedly, allegedly allegedly who has alleged to have

660
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 9: perpetrated this, would have had to have migrated around the

661
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 9: room and around that bed, moving as they're firing. I

662
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 9: think one of the biggest questions that you come to

663
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 9: is was there an awareness on either of the victim's part,

664
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 9: you know, because you imagine, you know, I don't sleep

665
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 9: as well as I used to sleep. But you know,

666
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 9: when you're in a dead sleep like this and you

667
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 9: have just say, you have a large bang that happens

668
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,919
Speaker 9: in your house, you don't know initially where that where

669
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 9: that comes from, right, So in that environment it's nuts.

670
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 9: You're disoriented. Imagine your partner is being shot in the bed.

671
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 9: Maybe they cry out, maybe they don't, It's hard to determine.

672
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 9: And so all of a sudden you feel this of

673
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 9: the pain at that moment in time. I think that

674
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 9: a lot of people, I think that we all hope

675
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 9: that this was a sudden death and that it was

676
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 9: not something that they lingered with. But there are really

677
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 9: some grotesque injuries here. And this was porporetrated at a

678
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 9: relatively close range, in my opinion, So you had the

679
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 9: advantage of just based upon what I see in the

680
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 9: autopsy reports, I have kind of worked it out in

681
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 9: my mind that there is a movement. Now I can't

682
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 9: say that it started on the left and then went

683
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 9: to the right, and I can't say how the perpetrator

684
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 9: went from left to right. Did they cross over the bed,

685
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 9: hop over the bed, or do they go to the

686
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 9: foot of the bed and you know, kind of orbit around.

687
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 9: Hard to say, but we do know, we do know

688
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 9: that there is absolutely positively movement and it would appear

689
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,879
Speaker 9: that neither one of these poor people, you know, left

690
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 9: the bed, but they were there there, that's where they died.

691
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 2: And this was a major overcare is that right? I know,

692
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 2: typically an overkill and I know this simply from working

693
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 2: for you and with you for so many projects. You know,

694
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 2: an overkill typically means passion anger. It's so emotionally charged,

695
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 2: and in this case, the autopsy suggests this was a

696
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 2: major overkill. Do we know which victim was first? Was

697
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 2: it Monique?

698
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 6: It was?

699
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't know.

700
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's that's very hard to determine. You know, people

701
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 9: ask us in forensics, they ask us that question about sequencing,

702
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 9: and that's the term that's commonly used. They want to know,

703
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,760
Speaker 9: you know, what, what came first. So here's a word

704
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 9: kind of a word of warning. But it's just kind

705
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 9: of a something that everybody can take into consideration anytime

706
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 9: you read an autopsy report. Okay, just because there is

707
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 9: a number like, uh, you know, if we you know,

708
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 9: if we just merely look at Monique's autopsy report, which

709
00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 9: I have here in front of me. You they'll have

710
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:07,760
Speaker 9: they'll have the injuries enumerated. Okay, so you think about

711
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 9: like she the first gunshot wound that she has sustained,

712
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 9: it's going to be to her right cheek. Okay, well

713
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 9: that's not necessarily the first sequence. Wise, that's the number

714
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 9: that they assigned to it. So when you run down

715
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,479
Speaker 9: this list of numbers, no one should ever, it should

716
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 9: never be be implied on any level that this is

717
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 9: the sequence in which they occurred. Okay, this is just

718
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 9: how you enumerate it, all right, because no one, no

719
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 9: one will ever really know unless you have a subject

720
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 9: that comes toward and say, okay, I started here, this

721
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 9: is how I went about it. But we know that

722
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 9: that doesn't happen, right, And so you go through that

723
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 9: and you take care and you hope that the most

724
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 9: the most devastating injury occurred first. You know, you're hoping

725
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 9: for that. And yeah, back to your point, steph with

726
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 9: the overkill. It doesn't take this many rounds to end

727
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 9: someone's life, particularly a close range. And anybody that handles

728
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 9: a weapon has fired a weapon, they're fully aware of that.

729
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 3: This is true crime. Tonight on iHeartRadio we're talking true

730
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 3: crime all the time. I'm body movin and I'm here

731
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 3: with Stephanie Leidecker and Courtney Armstrong. We're right in the

732
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 3: middle of talking about the Tepe murders with forensics expert

733
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 3: Joseph Scott Morgan, and we're talking about the autopsy that's

734
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 3: just been released. And Joseph, I have a question if

735
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 3: you want to give us a call, by the way,

736
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 3: give us a call eighty eight thirty one Crime. Joseph's here, like,

737
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 3: take the opportunity while you got it right. But Joseph,

738
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 3: let me ask you something. There is some information in

739
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 3: the autopsy report about possible defensive wounds, right, there's some

740
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 3: wounds to the hands and arms. Does that lead you

741
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 3: to believe that there was some defense going on or

742
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 3: do you think that maybe it could have just been

743
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 3: a bad shot. What is your gut reaction?

744
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 9: Oh lord, buddy, I got to tell you for me.

745
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 9: When I read this, it sounded reactionary to me. It

746
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 9: sounded like their reactor to the event. So and as

747
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 9: disheartening as it is, as cruel as this is to me,

748
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 9: it gives me an indication that there was an awareness.

749
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 9: Now I can't say that everybody that reads these reports

750
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 9: is going to buy into that. But that was my awareness,

751
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 9: particularly given the fact that this person is moving. The

752
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 9: perpetrator is obviously moving as they're shooting. Okay, the trick

753
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 9: is and we're going to hear this in trial. By

754
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 9: the way, one of the big questions from a ballistic standpoint,

755
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 9: it's not just going to be range of fire, you know,

756
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 9: the distance from the end of the muzzle to where

757
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 9: the projectile enter the remains or the body. They're also

758
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 9: going to want to know about the sequencing as well,

759
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 9: and how proficient the individual was at that range. I

760
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 9: think that that's going to be significant, you know in

761
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 9: the conversation you're going to hear in court.

762
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:12,399
Speaker 2: For not to mention we still don't really know how

763
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 2: this person even got into the house. Remember this is

764
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 2: the holiday's time. I get a little even like choked up.

765
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 2: I'm looking at a photo of them right now, and

766
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 2: you'll see Monique on her wedding day. Her smile is

767
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 2: so beautiful and big, and they were such a beloved couple.

768
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 2: To have such a tragedy. The idea that somebody is

769
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 2: lurking over you while you're sleeping is every human's very

770
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 2: worst nightmare. And yeah, those defensive marks, same thought. You know,

771
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 2: it seemed like somebody was putting up a bit of

772
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 2: a fight, which means he maybe wanted maybe Monique to

773
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 2: know that it was him. This is somebody who has

774
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 2: been stalking and like hunting. And by the way, this

775
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 2: was also a doctor. So this is a guy that

776
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,879
Speaker 2: had an upwardly mobile life, so many things to look

777
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 2: forward to, a very real practice, little bit of a

778
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 2: ding against him happening real time, some sort of illegal

779
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 2: issue for the first time, maybe in malpractice lawsuit was

780
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:12,280
Speaker 2: coming up in his world. Maybe that was an inciting event.

781
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 2: But again, this is somebody who really was looking to

782
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 2: really commit violence, if in fact this is true, and

783
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 2: drove for hours and hours and hours to do this,

784
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 2: so pre meditation can't possibly be denied. You know, Boddy,

785
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 2: I know you want to jump in, go ahead, I do.

786
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 3: So, you know what, the PCA came out in this case,

787
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 3: and we learned that on December sixth, you know, prior

788
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 3: was I think it was two or three weeks prior

789
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 3: to the murder. You know, he was kind of lurking

790
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 3: around the house while they were at that Big ten

791
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 3: conference or exactly. Well, one thing we learned in the

792
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 3: PCA is that the wife Monique, she's there. It's a

793
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 3: social event there, there was some buddies, friends, it's like

794
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 3: a it's like an event that they go to with

795
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 3: their friends. Well, in the middle of it, she left.

796
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 3: She got up and left and went back to the hotel.

797
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 3: And later, you know, her friends were like, why did

798
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,399
Speaker 3: she leave? And Spencer told the friend group, something's going

799
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 3: on with her ex husband, something to do with her

800
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 3: ex husband. Yeah, and that's the day, you guys, he's

801
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 3: out lurking around in their house, like in their yard

802
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 3: in his car and scene. She knew something something And

803
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 3: I think when he was doing because he was there

804
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,399
Speaker 3: for hours, you guys from the PCA, and so I'm

805
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,399
Speaker 3: thinking somehow he learned how to gain entry to their

806
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 3: home while.

807
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 2: He was outside of their house. Yeah, and that is

808
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 2: also so creepy. We saw this also. They had footage

809
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 2: of the assailant, you know, exiting in a back alley

810
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 2: and you know, at that point it looked like it

811
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:41,919
Speaker 2: wasn't even trying that hard not to be seen, right,

812
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 2: you know, he was still pretty covered up but had

813
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 2: a certain type of a walk cadence to his walk,

814
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 2: which was pretty recognizable in the end and was ultimately

815
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 2: spotted because of his car. So again, this was like

816
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 2: a premeditated thing by a very smart individual who is

817
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 2: by the way, massively tall, big. If you saw him

818
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 2: in court, he's huge.

819
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 3: He's shinormous. He's yeah, how scary.

820
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,720
Speaker 2: And you know, on the one hand, he gets premeditated,

821
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 2: he wants to commit this murder, but it seems like

822
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 2: in the hours and days after he sort of threw

823
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 2: in the towel a little bit in terms of not

824
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 2: getting caught, although currently he says he's not guilty.

825
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:21,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have.

826
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 4: One other before we wrap out, Joseph, I have one

827
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 4: other question that I'm not sure if it's answerable. So

828
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 4: there were sixteen total shots fired or sixteen wounds? Is

829
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 4: that consistent with a single action a single action weapon.

830
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 4: I don't even know if I'm assing.

831
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 9: Well, semi automatic. It's semi automatic. And you know, one

832
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,760
Speaker 9: of the comments that was made, you know, the forensic

833
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 9: pathologist makes reference to recovering a projectile. He they qualified

834
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 9: it as a as a large caliber and that's really

835
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 9: hard to do with a mangled round. But in reference

836
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 9: to what you're saying you can have what's called a

837
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 9: double stack magazine. And you know, when I was on

838
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 9: the job, you know I carried I carried a Barretta.

839
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 9: I carried a Barretta and it was double stack. I

840
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 9: think I think it was seventeen rounds and plus I

841
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 9: could put an additional one in the chamber, in the

842
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 9: chamber and then load of seventeen round magazine. So yes,

843
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 9: it's more. You know, there's no reload, necessarily reload required,

844
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 9: and that's not the same with every weapon platform. It

845
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 9: varies from weapons, right, it varies.

846
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,919
Speaker 3: And we don't know specifically the gun that was used,

847
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 3: so we don't know the max magazine size, right, we

848
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 3: will fortunate, right, So listen, coming up at the top

849
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:53,760
Speaker 3: of the hour, a man is shot in his sleep,

850
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 3: buried in his yard, and what police say happened next

851
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 3: is even more disturbing. Joseph Scott Morgan's gonna stick with

852
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 3: us to pack it all, keep it right here at

853
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 3: True Crime Tonight.

854
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,760
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

855
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm staff here with Courtney

856
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 2: and Boddy and of course our very favorite forensics expert Joseph.

857
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 2: Scott Morgan is back with us to break down all

858
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 2: of the forensics. And there's this incredible case in Florida.

859
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 2: It's a murder that body's been following very closely, and Joseph,

860
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 2: we're desperately looking for your forensics expertise. Boddy, do you

861
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 2: want to give us a little background?

862
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 3: I can't wait. I gave the story to TAK a

863
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 3: couple of days ago and I've been sitting on it,

864
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 3: dying to talk about it.

865
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 2: Okay.

866
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 3: So it started out as a missing person's case. Okay,

867
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 3: So March twelfth, I'm just going to get into it.

868
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 3: I'm just going to get into it. You get right

869
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 3: now to twelfth. Joseph Ewer. He was last seen at

870
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,919
Speaker 3: his home in Fountain, Florida in the early morning hours,

871
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 3: and from that point forward, his family said that communication

872
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 3: fully stopped. Okay, so they started they reported him missing,

873
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 3: all right, and they said, you know there was an

874
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 3: argument between his girlfriend and him around four am.

875
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 2: Right, Well, guess what.

876
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:21,879
Speaker 3: Dismissing person's case took a very dark and disturbing turn.

877
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 3: Authorities are saying now this girlfriend, Ashley Averett, shot her boyfriend,

878
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 3: Joseph Eeler, while he was asleep, and then attempted to

879
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 3: dismember his body and bury the remains in the backyard

880
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 3: of the home that they shared. Now here's what makes

881
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 3: it a little I mean, all of it is a

882
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 3: whack of do but investigators say that what makes it

883
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,240
Speaker 3: even especially unsettling is you know that this all happened

884
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 3: and unfolded inside a home were other family members were present,

885
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 3: and it's raising questions about who's seen what, who heard

886
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 3: what and possibly missed in those critical hours. You know,

887
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 3: they reported him missing, They didn't. They didn't you know,

888
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:09,839
Speaker 3: see that you know, he was shot, Like what, it.

889
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 2: Doesn't It doesn't really make impossible. Yeah, a possible period.

890
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 3: Well, so he missed multiple workshifts obviously because he had

891
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 3: been shot. And the family said that was completely out

892
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 3: of you know, character, and it immediately raised concern. And

893
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 3: then on March fourteenth, a missing person's report was filed

894
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 3: after they you know, of course, weren't able to get

895
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 3: a hold of him for a couple of days. When questioned,

896
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 3: Ashley told investigators that Joseph had left with a friend,

897
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 3: but she was enabled to provide any clear details. Now,

898
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 3: Joseph's father, who lives at the home with a couple

899
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 3: right told investigators he did notice items being burned in

900
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:51,760
Speaker 3: a fire pit and what he described as heavy cleaning

901
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:55,760
Speaker 3: inside the home. He also pointed out missing bed sheets,

902
00:49:55,920 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 3: items that were moved around, and areas of freshly disturbed

903
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 3: soil in the yard, all of which of course red flag,

904
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 3: red flag. But this dad didn't he did it because

905
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:10,240
Speaker 3: he didn't realize that his son had just been shot

906
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 3: in the home that he lives in, and that she

907
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 3: tried to dismember his son.

908
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 2: And you know, it's it's anyway.

909
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 3: So based on all those details and inconsistencies, and you know,

910
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 3: investigators began treating this case as a possible homicide right now.

911
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:29,320
Speaker 3: And she admitted it. She admitted to shooting him twice

912
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 3: with the three eighty caliber handgun during those early morning hours.

913
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 3: And according to statements, Joseph was asleep at the time,

914
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 3: so they weren't arguing, they weren't fighting. But investigators say

915
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 3: that was significant, you know, and that evaluated intent because

916
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 3: he was asleep, they weren't fighting, she wasn't defending herself,

917
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 3: he was asleep. Defectives say that Ashley told them she

918
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:59,919
Speaker 3: attempted to dismember the body inside the home using tool,

919
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 3: and I'm gonna stop right there.

920
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, what is wrong with people dismemberment? Are

921
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 2: you kidding me?

922
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 3: With another person in the other room, it's insane.

923
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

924
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 3: Well, I'm not gonna say one more thing, and then

925
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 3: I'm gonna bring Joseph in. So authorities say that the

926
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 3: remains were then taken outside and buried in multiple locations,

927
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 3: So she was partially right Joseph. That would indicate she

928
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 3: was partially successful in some of the dismemberment because he

929
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 3: was buried in multiple locations.

930
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:33,359
Speaker 9: Right, yeah, unless she was burying other associated evidence. But yes, yeah,

931
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 9: that would imply that.

932
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 10: And right.

933
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 9: You know what's really amazing about dismemberment cases to me?

934
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 9: And I did a whole series on body bags about this,

935
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 9: because this is a trend that I've been bearing witnesses.

936
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 2: It seems to be on the other seems Oh.

937
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 9: My god, Yeah, it's nuts man. Okay, So what's amazing

938
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 9: to me, And it's not just dismemberments, it's cases in

939
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 9: general where people quietly kill someone if that's possible, and

940
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 9: they don't put distance between themselves and the body. You

941
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 9: see what I'm saying from an investigative standpoint, this is

942
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 9: like a gold mine because you know, the big question is, well,

943
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:21,240
Speaker 9: the guy's missing, you're in relationship with him on some level.

944
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 9: Why was he buryed in the backyard? Okay? And so

945
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 9: you know that's kind of the way it goes many

946
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,879
Speaker 9: and I think I think there's a bit of psychology here.

947
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 9: Relatively people want to hold onto something and and so

948
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 9: that they can keep an eye on it, you know,

949
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,240
Speaker 9: who's coming and going, that sort of thing, and generally

950
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 9: they do a really poor job, you know, when it

951
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 9: comes to burials in addition to dismemorments.

952
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 2: Joseph, let me.

953
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 3: Ask you a question, because I mean, the whole the

954
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 3: case of course that I was involved with, was also

955
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 3: a dismemberment case. Have you so I have a particular

956
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 3: interest in this.

957
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 9: Yeah.

958
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:05,240
Speaker 3: Have you ever come across a case where a person

959
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,879
Speaker 3: you know, you said, you know, they keep they keep

960
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 3: them close to them, right?

961
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:13,320
Speaker 2: Have you ever been.

962
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:15,479
Speaker 3: Involved in a case or run across the case where

963
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 3: they keep some of the person and not all of them.

964
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 9: Let me see, No, I don't personally, and I'm not

965
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 9: saying it hasn't happened. I'm sure that. But if you're

966
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 9: asking for me. Yeah, practice, No, anytime I had a

967
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 9: dismemberment case, it wasn't. It was not facilitated in order.

968
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 9: It wasn't like a Jeffrey Dahmer thing, you know, where

969
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 9: you're holding onto something that you memorialize. It was always

970
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 9: to facilitate getting rid of the remains. And people always

971
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 9: think smaller components it's easier to get rid of Theoretically,

972
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 9: that should happen, but the problem is the average Joe

973
00:53:56,520 --> 00:54:00,799
Speaker 9: Schmoe on the street doesn't have, first off, the intellectual

974
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 9: acumen to do it. They don't have the experience with

975
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 9: either butchery or working on work. Don't give me those

976
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 9: funny looks, y'all.

977
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 3: I was like, come on, yeah, it's so true.

978
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 2: Though, if you start talking about how hard it is

979
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:16,319
Speaker 2: to cut through a torso these are the things I've

980
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 2: learned from you.

981
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 9: Yeah, And they don't have the appropriate tools, and if

982
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:23,319
Speaker 9: they do have tools, they don't know how to use them.

983
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 9: It's like building a house. I hate to say that,

984
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 9: but it truly is. And so they try to put distance.

985
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 9: But yeah, body, there are cases out there where people

986
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 9: will take mementos and sometimes they're anatomical momento.

987
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, on that note.

988
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 4: If you're just joining us, this is true crime tonight,

989
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 4: and we are talking about a really dark and disturbing case.

990
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 4: It's a woman named Ashley Averett and she's been accused

991
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 4: of shooting her boyfriend. He's the victim, Joseph Eyler, and

992
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 4: then attempting to dismember his body and bury the remains.

993
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 4: We are here with Joseph Scott Morgan, forensic expert who

994
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 4: is helping us break this down, thankfully. Question for you, Joseph,

995
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 4: So when you said that the the theory potentially when

996
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 4: people attempt to dismember a body of someone they may

997
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:22,800
Speaker 4: have murdered because they think, you know, it's smaller pieces,

998
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 4: But isn't it also more literal ground to cover and more.

999
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 3: There's more, there's more, forensic fine, yes, yeah.

1000
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, you've been doing your homework. You're absolutely right.

1001
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 9: So yeah, precisely.

1002
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 8: So.

1003
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 9: Not only do we are we discussing a shooting, right,

1004
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 9: we can't forget about that, so you have ballistics evidence,

1005
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 9: but in addition to that, every time an insult is

1006
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 9: made on a human remain, and when I say insult,

1007
00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 9: I'm talking about like a post warum injury. So every

1008
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 9: every stroke of a saw, a knife, whatever that is

1009
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 9: you're creating. It's a tumbleweed or it's more like a snowball.

1010
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:11,359
Speaker 9: You're creating more and more forensic evidence just tool mark

1011
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 9: evidence alone. You're creating this mountain. Okay, and we can

1012
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 9: actually this is something we can do. Sequentially, we can

1013
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 9: not weed. I'm saying like I can do it. But

1014
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 9: if you take a tool mark expert and a forensic anthropologist,

1015
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 9: you better be prepared. You know, you better be prepared

1016
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,359
Speaker 9: when you get to court because you're leaving so much

1017
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 9: information behind. We can see where you began, we can

1018
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 9: see where you hesitated, we can see where you stop

1019
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 9: start that they're called stop starts on bones, those sorts

1020
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,280
Speaker 9: of things. We can see where you just got frustrated

1021
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 9: and try to break something just through brute force. And

1022
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 9: so you're creating this mammoth amount of forensic evidence. The

1023
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 9: trick is do you have somebody that can interpret the

1024
00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 9: evidence appropriately and then kind of tie it back. That's

1025
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 9: very very important here. And you know, Boddy, you you

1026
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 9: had mentioned trying to clean up in the house. You

1027
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:08,399
Speaker 9: talk about them that I'm just.

1028
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 3: Going to bring up. Now there's two there's two scenes, right, well,

1029
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 3: three I guess right, there's where he was buried right there.

1030
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 3: You know, multiple places. There's where he was shot, and

1031
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 3: then there's where he was this member. So she created

1032
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:26,880
Speaker 3: multiple forensic scenes and she tried to clean it up. Apparently,

1033
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 3: you know, the detective. The authorities say that that she

1034
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 3: did purchase some cleaning supplies that she attempted to clean

1035
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 3: the scene. So how of let me ask you, when

1036
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 3: somebody uses bleach and things like that, is that effective

1037
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 3: even to.

1038
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 9: A certain degree, To a certain degree we have we

1039
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 9: have the ability as investigators to defeat their attempts. I'll

1040
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 9: put it to you that way, so you know you

1041
00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 9: can try. Uh, And I've some of the most bizarre

1042
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 9: chemical combinations out there where people it's almost like they're

1043
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 9: throwing spaghetti at a wall, you know, yeah, can I do?

1044
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 9: And you get this combingling of thing that can go

1045
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:13,919
Speaker 9: and actually part of it is kind of dangerous as well.

1046
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 9: There was one case where somebody created like almost like

1047
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 9: chlorine gas.

1048
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 3: Yes, we talked about that case. Actually they were mixing

1049
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 3: chemicals and like smoking victim.

1050
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 9: Yeah yeah, yeah, And you can be overcome by that

1051
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 9: or anybody, you know, certainly apperpetrator came could.

1052
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 3: You imagine no, could you imagine you just murdered somebody

1053
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 3: and now you're trying to dismember the body, but you

1054
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 3: pass out from the chemicals you're mixing.

1055
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 2: A message, But think about the level of depravity, because

1056
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 2: you know, let's just go there for one second. You know,

1057
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 2: a murder is depraved to begin with, So I know

1058
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 2: we're in that conversation, but imagine there's this like I

1059
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 2: don't know what lamp fell off a table and suddenly

1060
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 2: the person died. The idea that you get a saw

1061
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 2: out or a axaw or anything out to start cutting

1062
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 2: up another human being is so let alone a person

1063
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:14,959
Speaker 2: that you love or that you know, and just think

1064
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 2: about what that mess might be like how a person

1065
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 2: goes from doing that to functioning enough in the real

1066
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 2: world to even be arrested or stand trial. I don't

1067
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 2: even know how a person could actually have that level

1068
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 2: of psychopathy where they could actually pull that off. You'd

1069
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:35,480
Speaker 2: think you'd be a disaster mess after that. Let alone

1070
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 2: what you've seen and witnessed and done. It's like next level.

1071
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 2: And Joseph, you've covered so many dismemberment cases and we've

1072
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 2: talked about this to nauseum it's just like one of

1073
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 2: those categories that is so gross and horrible. But I

1074
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:54,400
Speaker 2: can't not hear it enough, and nobody delivers the information

1075
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 2: better than Joseph does. But wow, we should just have

1076
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:02,439
Speaker 2: a special place in how for anyone who is even

1077
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 2: capable of this.

1078
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 4: Okay, first of all, that's impossible to not agree with

1079
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 4: Stephanie and also.

1080
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 2: Try to disagree with that course, Yeah, exactly, why dare you? Yeah?

1081
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 4: But also this is like bleach a PSA to all

1082
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:21,480
Speaker 4: would be criminals, specifically those trying to clean up the

1083
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:27,360
Speaker 4: evidence buying bleach. Coudy, You just said investigators had evidence

1084
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:29,960
Speaker 4: of her buying bleach. How many times is that like

1085
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 4: presented as evidence?

1086
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 2: I mean, blea. It's just so smelly. It's a mess. No,

1087
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 2: I know, but it's all.

1088
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 9: Then you have of them standing at the register the bleach. Yeah.

1089
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 3: Lord, remember Brian Walsh like smiled for the cash registered

1090
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 3: camera with his kid.

1091
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 2: Nearby at the actual like you know, place buying things

1092
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 2: to be able to you know, dismember his beautiful wife

1093
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:57,120
Speaker 2: while his kid is just wandering in close distance.

1094
01:00:57,680 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 3: Ridiculous.

1095
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:00,440
Speaker 9: I think one of the things that always strikes me

1096
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 9: about the cases is in step This is to your

1097
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 9: point about you know, how praved an individual can be.

1098
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 9: We hear the word objectation a lot, but here in

1099
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 9: the literal sense, where you take a human and now

1100
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 9: you kill them, and in addition of that, you have

1101
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 9: in fact objectified them to you've taken away their humanity

1102
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:26,440
Speaker 9: at that point, because now you're trying to dismantle them.

1103
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:29,680
Speaker 9: You're making them something less than they were in life.

1104
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 9: As a matter of fact, even if you look at

1105
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:35,640
Speaker 9: it from the perspective of well, I'm not giving anything,

1106
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:39,000
Speaker 9: the family won't even have anything left here. And you know,

1107
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 9: and that's pretty amazing. I just covered a case that

1108
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 9: has just been solved after over fifty years by Outram

1109
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:49,080
Speaker 9: actually where a guy was found on a desolate road

1110
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 9: in Pennsylvania. Boats his hands had been cut off and

1111
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:53,440
Speaker 9: his head had been cut off, and he had a

1112
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 9: big X carved into his chest and he in the

1113
01:01:56,600 --> 01:02:00,760
Speaker 9: last month he was just positively identified. And you know,

1114
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:03,120
Speaker 9: you look at that and you think, well, they didn't

1115
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 9: try to bury this guy's body. This was probably gang related.

1116
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 9: They just left. They sent a message with that. So

1117
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 9: it's amazing what people will do too human remains. It'll

1118
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 9: just knock your socks off and it's out there. I

1119
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:21,000
Speaker 9: haven't seen everything. If anybody ever says that they have,

1120
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 9: there's always something else that's gonna surprise you.

1121
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:27,760
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know if I'm surprisable anymore.

1122
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:33,880
Speaker 2: I am. I am very surprisable, still, very very very Yeah. Fact, Joseph,

1123
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 2: it's that time. It's time for us to say thank you.

1124
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 10: Yo.

1125
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 3: Whoa, whoa? Can you stay forever? No?

1126
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 4: This when that's right, And anyone who wants to hear

1127
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:51,800
Speaker 4: more Joseph go to Bodybags. He is at Joseph Scott

1128
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:55,280
Speaker 4: Morgan on YouTube and it's channel is body Bags with

1129
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:58,800
Speaker 4: Joseph Scott Morgan and keep it here True Crime Tonight.

1130
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:13,080
Speaker 10: We love you, Joseph.

1131
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:16,160
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1132
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. Staff here with Courtney and

1133
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 2: body and of course we have producer Taha with us

1134
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 2: as well, and Sam and Adam in the control room

1135
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 2: waiting for your call eight eight eight three one crime

1136
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:32,280
Speaker 2: come on and also keep those talk backs coming. So,

1137
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong, where should we go next?

1138
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 4: Oh, We're going to take a little trip to Epstein

1139
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 4: Town by way of high society. Yes, so all the

1140
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:46,840
Speaker 4: fancy people live, well, all the fancy people live and

1141
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:51,040
Speaker 4: all the fancy places that Jeffrey Ebstein wanted to go

1142
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:55,720
Speaker 4: into and successfully did for decades. So this is actually

1143
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 4: really interesting and it's new revelations that are coming out

1144
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:03,000
Speaker 4: about how Epstein was able to build and then rebuild

1145
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:07,360
Speaker 4: influence and regain access to elite circles even after his

1146
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:11,200
Speaker 4: two thousand and eight conviction. And at the center of

1147
01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 4: this it's veteran Hollywood publicist Peggy Siegel. Yeah, she spoke

1148
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:19,440
Speaker 4: out in a there were newly released Epstein files, and

1149
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 4: Peggy Seagull spoke out in a recent New York magazine interview,

1150
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:26,640
Speaker 4: and she detailed this relationship that went on for years,

1151
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:31,440
Speaker 4: and we learned about money, we learned about access, influence,

1152
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:35,040
Speaker 4: and it raises questions about how he was able to

1153
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 4: do everything he did.

1154
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 3: Publicists know a lot. So are you guys familiar.

1155
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 2: With Peggy Segel by the way, I am, Yeah, she

1156
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 2: was really infamous. Remember, Peggy Seagull was like the person

1157
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:49,960
Speaker 2: and this is back you know a while ago when

1158
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 2: the idea of a publicist was you know, sort of

1159
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:57,880
Speaker 2: like this iconic thing that they had all the entrances

1160
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:02,280
Speaker 2: and exits at every fan party, every fancy restaurant, they

1161
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:04,919
Speaker 2: got you into anywhere. So whether it was in Los

1162
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 2: Angeles or New York City or in Palm Beach, who

1163
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 2: were near you know, any of the places that Jeffrey

1164
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:17,000
Speaker 2: Epstein Gallivan did. She was a real mainstay for socialites

1165
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:19,479
Speaker 2: and kind of knew what the who, what where when

1166
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 2: was back in the day. She had built her life

1167
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:24,960
Speaker 2: on it, frankly, and she was a big deal. Yeah,

1168
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:25,959
Speaker 2: she was a big deal.

1169
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 4: She was described as the Golden Rolodex and she had

1170
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 4: more than thirty thousand influential contacts, so she was a

1171
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:37,480
Speaker 4: real gatekeeper to these elite circles that, as we know,

1172
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:44,040
Speaker 4: Epstein thirsted after so much. Well, so that positioned her

1173
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:46,080
Speaker 4: as someone who Epstein really wanted to get to know.

1174
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 4: And so their relationship began around two thousand and six

1175
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 4: or two thousand and seven, which again is before the

1176
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:56,760
Speaker 4: first conviction, and he sent her a very expensive cardier

1177
01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 4: clock called her and immediately was name drop mutual connections.

1178
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 4: Look how close we are now, I should now have

1179
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 4: entree to everyone, you know, Golden Rolodex. And then it

1180
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 4: was after the conviction, Peggy Siegell should continued interacting with

1181
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:16,960
Speaker 4: Epstein and another associate described as sort of a lynch

1182
01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 4: pin in helping him regain this access.

1183
01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 2: And remember, because this is a guy who was the guy,

1184
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:27,760
Speaker 2: Epstein also didn't require too much access because he was

1185
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 2: the one that had it in the early days. Remember,

1186
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:34,680
Speaker 2: he was infiltrating every part of whether it was Palm Beach,

1187
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 2: New York, Los Angeles, his island. This guy was everywhere globally,

1188
01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 2: so he was working, according to him, with the Rothschilds.

1189
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:45,680
Speaker 2: We know, Les Wexner, who we've talked about here, who

1190
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 2: owned Victoria's secret and limited some of the wealthiest people alive.

1191
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 2: So to have a fat you know, a publicist wasn't

1192
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 2: that big of a deal. He probably didn't need that

1193
01:06:56,040 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 2: much access early on until he was a sexophen and

1194
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:04,720
Speaker 2: had been found guilty of these offenses, had to register

1195
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:07,520
Speaker 2: as a sex offender back in two thousand and seven,

1196
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:10,760
Speaker 2: two thousand and eight. This is that Florida state charge

1197
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:13,200
Speaker 2: that he had to you know, kind of go to

1198
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:16,880
Speaker 2: jail for. He only had to sleep in jail because

1199
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 2: he got to leave and go to his office and

1200
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 2: still take meetings and go about his merry way. The

1201
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 2: craziest deal in history, but some people, some of the

1202
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 2: smarter ones, kind of distance themselves from him after he was,

1203
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:34,400
Speaker 2: you know, a registered sex offender. And remember he got

1204
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:37,440
Speaker 2: a really sweet deal, but there was chatter in that

1205
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:40,480
Speaker 2: circle that he had gotten away with a lot and

1206
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:42,920
Speaker 2: that there were a lot of other potential charges that

1207
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:45,360
Speaker 2: had really been minimized at that point. That was the

1208
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:47,800
Speaker 2: word on the street, kind of an open secret. So

1209
01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:50,920
Speaker 2: after that, how does he kind of re enter when

1210
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:57,280
Speaker 2: everyone knows he's a pariah? This publicist turns out Peggy Seagull, Yes, exactly,

1211
01:07:57,360 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 2: Peggy Siegel. And you can read all about it.

1212
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 4: More than five thousand emails between Epstein and Peggy Segil

1213
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:10,880
Speaker 4: heard me right, bodyboo, more than five thousand emails many yes, yeah,

1214
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:14,720
Speaker 4: two thousand and nine, twenty nineteen. And she even admitted

1215
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:17,640
Speaker 4: that in some cases she would bring Epstein to events

1216
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:19,480
Speaker 4: even when host might have objected.

1217
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:21,599
Speaker 2: That's right.

1218
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:26,800
Speaker 4: And one of the most controversial moments that she kind

1219
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:31,040
Speaker 4: of orchestrated or helped organize was a dinner at Epstein's

1220
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:35,400
Speaker 4: mansion with formerly known as Prince Andrew as well as

1221
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:40,000
Speaker 4: prominent journalists. So she was this juggernaut that is, you know,

1222
01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:41,880
Speaker 4: this is all news.

1223
01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 2: That's he was like the biggest social climber of all times.

1224
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:48,040
Speaker 2: And that was a stick. Right, Yeah, he was like

1225
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:50,880
Speaker 2: a grift in a con. And she says that, now

1226
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:53,080
Speaker 2: that's kind of what the teams is that she kind

1227
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 2: of knew he was a grift in a con. But listen,

1228
01:08:56,040 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 2: this guy had everything and something on everyone. And I

1229
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:02,360
Speaker 2: don't know if this is a gender thing. Maybe at

1230
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:04,559
Speaker 2: that time, and this might sound a little archaic, but

1231
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:07,799
Speaker 2: he was so persistent and he was, you know, sending

1232
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:11,759
Speaker 2: her gifts and constantly reaching out to her and asking

1233
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:14,599
Speaker 2: her to really, frankly, get him out of this hole

1234
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:17,679
Speaker 2: he finds himself in. He needed a new access and

1235
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:21,680
Speaker 2: she was the first on his speed dial, and it

1236
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 2: really wrecked her career. Frankly, I kind of wrecked the

1237
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 2: idea of publicists too, Like she was back in the

1238
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:30,720
Speaker 2: day when a publicist was everything, Like you needed one

1239
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:34,640
Speaker 2: star that was like on your speed dial. Right, I

1240
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:37,320
Speaker 2: have a dumb question though, all right, now, question of

1241
01:09:37,320 --> 01:09:38,280
Speaker 2: yours is ever done?

1242
01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 3: Smoke screen? Like hear me out, hear me yes? So, Courtney,

1243
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:46,519
Speaker 3: you had said that she would often bring Epstein to

1244
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:50,000
Speaker 3: places where like the hosts might have jecked, right, But.

1245
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:52,520
Speaker 2: In some cases yes, yeah.

1246
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 3: So listen, if I'm in the Epstein files, right, I

1247
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:57,040
Speaker 3: could just be like, well, he came to my party,

1248
01:09:57,040 --> 01:09:59,600
Speaker 3: but I didn't invite him. The publicists just probam. I

1249
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:02,680
Speaker 3: didn't know what to do, Like, do you know what

1250
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:04,640
Speaker 3: I mean? Is this giving people a way out of

1251
01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 3: accountability in some ways?

1252
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:10,000
Speaker 2: Well, she kind of got her career taken, so there's

1253
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:12,519
Speaker 2: a little bit of accountability. I mean, listen, five thousand

1254
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:15,240
Speaker 2: times in the Epstein Files, there's nothing to shake a

1255
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:18,800
Speaker 2: stick at, and that's pretty humiliating. And she deserves to

1256
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:20,640
Speaker 2: be kicked out of the club at that point, because she,

1257
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:23,680
Speaker 2: by her own admission, knew he was a con and

1258
01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:27,160
Speaker 2: that this was a bad call. But he was kind

1259
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:29,640
Speaker 2: of So you're saying that people who were having the

1260
01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:34,400
Speaker 2: parties that were asking Peggy Seagull to have him there.

1261
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:36,200
Speaker 2: I don't know that's a fair question. I don't know

1262
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:37,280
Speaker 2: the answer to that, but that's.

1263
01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:37,840
Speaker 3: A great question.

1264
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:41,200
Speaker 2: So I think it's a very interesting question.

1265
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:44,519
Speaker 4: But screen, Yeah, but I really I don't think so,

1266
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:47,439
Speaker 4: only because, as we've talked about, so many people are

1267
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 4: mentioned who may simply have been in the same thing.

1268
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:53,520
Speaker 2: With him in the same so it would.

1269
01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 4: Bear out if someone actually had interactions, assuming any of

1270
01:10:57,040 --> 01:10:58,920
Speaker 4: them were written or were in the files like, then

1271
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:03,440
Speaker 4: it would that's screen would dissipate that year. Absolutely investigation.

1272
01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:07,320
Speaker 4: But listen, this was not one sided. She wasn't dragging

1273
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:11,200
Speaker 4: him all over town for nothing because Epstein was giving

1274
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:14,680
Speaker 4: Peggy Seagull financial support, legal help.

1275
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:17,760
Speaker 2: Of course, right hello, a seventieth birthday party gift, he

1276
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:21,439
Speaker 2: sent her one hundred grand. If I'm not mistaken, that's right,

1277
01:11:21,680 --> 01:11:24,680
Speaker 2: that's right for her. Yes, can you imagine getting one

1278
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:27,920
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars sent to you for your birthday? Sorry, mom,

1279
01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:31,400
Speaker 2: that's not in the mail exactly. However, who gets one

1280
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:34,479
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars? Like, the level of cash that these

1281
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:38,839
Speaker 2: people are talking about is absurd and obscene and again

1282
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:42,759
Speaker 2: every single night, of course, that's like it's actually dream

1283
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:45,000
Speaker 2: money just to live off of her, so many of

1284
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:47,400
Speaker 2: us And by the way, again I know I'm parping

1285
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:51,040
Speaker 2: on this, but again we're talking about crazy amounts of money,

1286
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:54,519
Speaker 2: and BOYD does it tarnish the soul? Allegedly, and this

1287
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:56,920
Speaker 2: is another case example. Yeah, she could have stood in

1288
01:11:56,920 --> 01:12:00,000
Speaker 2: her own laurels. You think Peggy Siegel needed Jeffrey Epstein,

1289
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:02,719
Speaker 2: and she was her own deal. She was a rain maker.

1290
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:05,000
Speaker 2: She was a very big deal in the publicist world.

1291
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:08,280
Speaker 2: She was the woman at a time when women necessarily

1292
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:12,040
Speaker 2: weren't top notch or weren't the top dog. She was,

1293
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:15,200
Speaker 2: and this guy literally brought her down. And frankly, I

1294
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:18,920
Speaker 2: think for the better. It's fine. She should have stepped out.

1295
01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:24,000
Speaker 3: Just imagine, know, you're this upcoming star, right, she's your publicist. Yeah,

1296
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:26,519
Speaker 3: and she's like, come to this party, and you go

1297
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:30,400
Speaker 3: because she's your publicist, right yeah, And then Jeffrey Epstein's there,

1298
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:35,160
Speaker 3: and now you're in photographs forever just because this woman,

1299
01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:38,800
Speaker 3: do you know what I mean? Like to tarnish reputation,

1300
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:39,880
Speaker 3: it's really bad.

1301
01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:42,120
Speaker 2: And not to mention there could have been very young

1302
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:44,479
Speaker 2: women that are also at these said parties and they

1303
01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:46,920
Speaker 2: see Peggy Siegel there, they're like, again, this is a

1304
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:51,240
Speaker 2: way of legitimizing him. I do want to say one thing.

1305
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:53,200
Speaker 2: He was really good at too, And that's something that

1306
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:55,879
Speaker 2: we are learning in these files, you know, for clarity,

1307
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:58,360
Speaker 2: just because you're in the files, because there's so many

1308
01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 2: of them, right, three million that we have access to.

1309
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:04,000
Speaker 2: Two million that we don't. Just because you're in his

1310
01:13:04,160 --> 01:13:07,840
Speaker 2: email doesn't mean you've done anything nefarious. Of course, now

1311
01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:10,559
Speaker 2: she's in it five thousand times. Okay, it's a little

1312
01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:15,799
Speaker 2: like it's excessive. However, you know, he needs certain people

1313
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:18,760
Speaker 2: in his world that are also going to legitimize him,

1314
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 2: that maybe are not in his dirty network that on

1315
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:25,000
Speaker 2: the outside people could look at and say like, he's

1316
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:28,280
Speaker 2: so legit. However, he was a registered sex offender at

1317
01:13:28,280 --> 01:13:31,280
Speaker 2: that point and had already pled guilty to these sex charges.

1318
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:34,400
Speaker 2: So that's where it gets a little funky, where she

1319
01:13:35,280 --> 01:13:37,519
Speaker 2: knows she should have known better, and who knows there

1320
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:39,760
Speaker 2: could have been young women at these parties that she

1321
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:44,160
Speaker 2: was allegedly this is not even alleged, But this is

1322
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:47,759
Speaker 2: my own fear is what if there were young girls

1323
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:51,519
Speaker 2: that maybe Peggy had access to that somehow want this

1324
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:56,000
Speaker 2: fancy publicist, see this very strong, independent, you know, frankly

1325
01:13:56,080 --> 01:14:02,120
Speaker 2: famous publicist who's vouching for him, really allowed his sex

1326
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:04,840
Speaker 2: offending status to be kind of minimized. You know. He

1327
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:07,599
Speaker 2: basically said, yeah, they just kind of threw the book

1328
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:11,440
Speaker 2: at me. I thought she was older, Yes she was age,

1329
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:13,640
Speaker 2: but she told me she was over age. And I

1330
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:16,200
Speaker 2: got kind of suckered. And you know, I'm so high profile.

1331
01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:19,679
Speaker 2: That's how he was told of the story to so many.

1332
01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:22,479
Speaker 2: I took the hit. I didn't want to go to

1333
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:24,960
Speaker 2: trial and put other women through it. Like he was

1334
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:30,920
Speaker 2: so bureau my friends. You know, yeah, he's such a saint. Meanwhile,

1335
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:34,040
Speaker 2: he's representing every bank that we all bank at. I'm

1336
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:35,960
Speaker 2: going to tell you this, one thing that's under my

1337
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:38,200
Speaker 2: skin right now is that Bank of America had that

1338
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:42,839
Speaker 2: settlement seven days ago and it is nowhere in the news.

1339
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:47,160
Speaker 2: Like you want to talk about hush, hush, hush. They

1340
01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:49,920
Speaker 2: have spent so much money in hush money, they had

1341
01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:53,479
Speaker 2: all those red flags, and it's not even anywhere in

1342
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:56,639
Speaker 2: the news. Maybe a little tiny article, a little little mentioned,

1343
01:14:57,320 --> 01:14:59,840
Speaker 2: but like again, even the big banks walking away Scott

1344
01:14:59,880 --> 01:15:01,839
Speaker 2: for five right, exactly.

1345
01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:06,840
Speaker 4: Well this if we want a couple of more details

1346
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:09,800
Speaker 4: on Peggy s Eagell. So you know you spoke of

1347
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:12,759
Speaker 4: the money, and yes, the one hundred thousand dollars gift,

1348
01:15:13,439 --> 01:15:15,599
Speaker 4: but of course it was going too good. She wanted

1349
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:20,000
Speaker 4: to have a lavish party, do an apartment reno, and

1350
01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:23,679
Speaker 4: allegedly some charity donations, one other.

1351
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:26,360
Speaker 2: A trip he paid for was a trip.

1352
01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:32,240
Speaker 4: For thirty seven thousand dollars plus on a single trip.

1353
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:36,800
Speaker 4: And this one makes me feel a little sick. And

1354
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:40,120
Speaker 4: one email, Peggy Seagull wrote to him, everything you do

1355
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:42,679
Speaker 4: for me makes me feel like there's a guardian angel

1356
01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:43,800
Speaker 4: watching over me.

1357
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:46,519
Speaker 2: Oh gros s gag me.

1358
01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:53,200
Speaker 4: Because she knew other emails, Epstein literally asked her to

1359
01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:57,000
Speaker 4: help him find a quote baby Mama with some great genes,

1360
01:15:58,040 --> 01:16:02,920
Speaker 4: and Peggy Siegel suggested, possibly a professional student.

1361
01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:04,760
Speaker 2: I don't know what that means.

1362
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:07,960
Speaker 3: What, yeah, yeah, great genes.

1363
01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:12,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh no, he was designing babies absolutely in vitro.

1364
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:13,960
Speaker 3: He really was.

1365
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:16,160
Speaker 2: There is so much evidence at this point that we

1366
01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:19,360
Speaker 2: haven't even scratched the surface on. Yeah, talk to Adam

1367
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:21,880
Speaker 2: about it. We'll get to that next week. But you know,

1368
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:24,360
Speaker 2: this guy was thinking that he was going to recreate

1369
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:29,280
Speaker 2: a highly intelligent race and he was going to seat it,

1370
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:31,600
Speaker 2: and he was going to use technology. He was going

1371
01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:34,400
Speaker 2: to use that clown. I'm going to say it. I'm sorry,

1372
01:16:34,439 --> 01:16:36,720
Speaker 2: I'm going to get us all killed. I am not suicidal.

1373
01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:39,439
Speaker 2: Bill Gates, all of them, every single one of these

1374
01:16:39,479 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 2: tech guys are deep in it. So when I see

1375
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:44,679
Speaker 2: meta having to dip out three hundred and seventy five

1376
01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:49,720
Speaker 2: million dollars. That is nothing compared to the ah grossness

1377
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:52,519
Speaker 2: that they've all looked the other way because Jeffrey Epstein

1378
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:57,280
Speaker 2: was a part of all of it, Bitcoin genetics allegedly

1379
01:16:57,320 --> 01:16:59,400
Speaker 2: the pandemic, Adam.

1380
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:01,960
Speaker 3: That was key one, Right, do not listen to I'm

1381
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:03,559
Speaker 3: not going to be I'm not going to be on

1382
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:06,600
Speaker 3: the show. So I don't know.

1383
01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:14,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, Bible Adam as my witness, I mean listen. So again,

1384
01:17:14,360 --> 01:17:16,960
Speaker 2: you know, is the publicist the worst case scenario in this,

1385
01:17:17,320 --> 01:17:19,879
Speaker 2: I don't know her life, you know, should be affected

1386
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:23,960
Speaker 2: by it though, And yeah, she's feeling publicly shamed and

1387
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:25,960
Speaker 2: she should be appropriate.

1388
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:30,519
Speaker 3: She gave access, She she sanitized him in my opinion, right,

1389
01:17:30,920 --> 01:17:34,920
Speaker 3: she sanitized his image. Yeah, she made him. She normalized

1390
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:41,920
Speaker 3: this sex predator to you know, young upcoming people, women,

1391
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:47,360
Speaker 3: girls who trusted her and trusted her judgment. Right, she

1392
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:49,920
Speaker 3: wouldn't be with with shady people. This is, you know,

1393
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:54,200
Speaker 3: a renowned Hollywood publicist that has a stellar reputation. Of course,

1394
01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:56,519
Speaker 3: I'm going to trust the people that she brings into

1395
01:17:56,520 --> 01:17:57,040
Speaker 3: my circle.

1396
01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:02,759
Speaker 4: Although she also has now said I was in denial.

1397
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:05,960
Speaker 4: I knew he was morally compromised and a con man.

1398
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:11,240
Speaker 4: Well listen, she's admitting, but also Jeffrey Epstein, she Peggy Siegel,

1399
01:18:11,320 --> 01:18:13,960
Speaker 4: and yes, we just laid out. She did grant him

1400
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:18,519
Speaker 4: a lot of entree into a lot of places, and

1401
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:20,759
Speaker 4: he was able to con.

1402
01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:21,240
Speaker 2: A lot of people.

1403
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:25,400
Speaker 3: Both things can be chansty business, nasty business. We'll stick around.

1404
01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:28,200
Speaker 3: We've got more to dig into. The theories, the questions

1405
01:18:28,320 --> 01:18:30,760
Speaker 3: and the cases. Still keeping you up at night. We're

1406
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:33,479
Speaker 3: diving into your talkbacks. Keep it right here, True Crime Tonight.

1407
01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:35,879
Speaker 3: We're talking true crime all the time.

1408
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:48,840
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1409
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:51,400
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm staff here with Courtney

1410
01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:55,000
Speaker 2: and Boddy. This night has been flying by. Surely we

1411
01:18:55,040 --> 01:18:56,240
Speaker 2: have some talkbacks to go to.

1412
01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:00,479
Speaker 11: Hey, guys, see from Vegas for swallows. Thank you for

1413
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:01,000
Speaker 11: the swag.

1414
01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:01,479
Speaker 7: I love it.

1415
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:03,519
Speaker 11: Secondly, I want to talk about the missing in general.

1416
01:19:03,640 --> 01:19:06,439
Speaker 11: I think he's a genius. He's a particle physics guy.

1417
01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:09,479
Speaker 11: Just imagine, just for a second, not a conspiracy thing

1418
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:12,439
Speaker 11: that he went took his gun, took all his stuff off,

1419
01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:16,120
Speaker 11: went back in time to go do a thing to

1420
01:19:16,320 --> 01:19:17,240
Speaker 11: change history.

1421
01:19:17,680 --> 01:19:18,519
Speaker 12: Just imagine that.

1422
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:23,360
Speaker 3: Thanks Steve Vegas, are you saying that he's Marnie McFly yes,

1423
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:25,839
Speaker 3: jump back to the future.

1424
01:19:26,479 --> 01:19:28,799
Speaker 2: Yes, And he's going to get back to the future

1425
01:19:28,840 --> 01:19:30,920
Speaker 2: to make it better today. And I like it. If

1426
01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:32,599
Speaker 2: there was going to be a guy to do it,

1427
01:19:32,600 --> 01:19:35,519
Speaker 2: it's him. He is smart enough, he is clever enough,

1428
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:39,280
Speaker 2: he has access enough. And by the way, like who knows,

1429
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:42,440
Speaker 2: like so many things are possible. Maybe there's some quantum

1430
01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:45,519
Speaker 2: Maybe there's some quantum jumping happening right now.

1431
01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:50,400
Speaker 3: Maybe NaNs dries with him. Oh I hope so, I know,

1432
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:53,680
Speaker 3: so sad, so sad. I hope they find both of

1433
01:19:53,720 --> 01:19:54,880
Speaker 3: them very soon.

1434
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:58,680
Speaker 2: And thank you for the talkback where left and we

1435
01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:01,439
Speaker 2: really hope he's like turning up again. It's one of

1436
01:20:01,479 --> 01:20:04,639
Speaker 2: those cases also that you know, we know the news

1437
01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:08,080
Speaker 2: is capable of getting a missing story out there, and

1438
01:20:08,320 --> 01:20:10,320
Speaker 2: you know when we saw that with Nancy Guthrie, and

1439
01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:13,760
Speaker 2: we saw how many people really jumped into help, just

1440
01:20:14,320 --> 01:20:18,200
Speaker 2: honestly worldwide, they see the general not getting enough attention.

1441
01:20:18,280 --> 01:20:21,320
Speaker 2: In my opinion, what if he is lost. I know

1442
01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:24,599
Speaker 2: they're doing searchers and things, but on the mainstream media

1443
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:28,080
Speaker 2: it is buried at the very end of the show.

1444
01:20:28,360 --> 01:20:34,160
Speaker 13: Dare I say, well, well, thank you following that one, Yeah,

1445
01:20:34,240 --> 01:20:36,559
Speaker 13: that's okase was we're going to continue following I actually

1446
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:39,720
Speaker 13: reached out to the police department, so I'm keeping my

1447
01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:41,439
Speaker 13: fingers crossed that maybe we can get someone on the

1448
01:20:41,439 --> 01:20:43,160
Speaker 13: show that might be willing to talk a little bit,

1449
01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:46,800
Speaker 13: so that would be great. Yeah, So fingers crossed. They

1450
01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:48,640
Speaker 13: called back and left a message during the show, so

1451
01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:49,280
Speaker 13: I'll check it out.

1452
01:20:49,280 --> 01:20:51,960
Speaker 3: How we're done hopefully tonight. Okay, great.

1453
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:56,479
Speaker 4: So it seems like at any given time there's about

1454
01:20:56,520 --> 01:21:01,800
Speaker 4: one hundred thousand active missing persons cases, so it's really hard.

1455
01:21:01,840 --> 01:21:05,800
Speaker 2: I mean, it just goes ones go right, Yeah, which one?

1456
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:07,920
Speaker 2: So a United States government, I feel like we can

1457
01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:09,920
Speaker 2: do better than that. We should not be letting him

1458
01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:12,760
Speaker 2: just like drift off into the instance he had real

1459
01:21:12,800 --> 01:21:16,519
Speaker 2: secrets allegedly, allegedly allegedly even if his life is saying

1460
01:21:16,520 --> 01:21:19,200
Speaker 2: that's probably not the case. But this is somebody who

1461
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:22,960
Speaker 2: really did Our country is solid. Can we please make

1462
01:21:23,000 --> 01:21:25,080
Speaker 2: sure that we are keeping his name out there and

1463
01:21:25,120 --> 01:21:27,840
Speaker 2: the fact that he is missing, maybe he's lost, maybe

1464
01:21:27,880 --> 01:21:30,559
Speaker 2: he's been hurt, maybe he's been abducted. I just think

1465
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:34,080
Speaker 2: we have to you know, raise the volume on this

1466
01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:37,800
Speaker 2: conversation a little bit. It surprises me that it's not

1467
01:21:37,840 --> 01:21:39,000
Speaker 2: getting more action.

1468
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:44,200
Speaker 3: Me too, Honestly, I this guy had like high clearance,

1469
01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:47,120
Speaker 3: and you know he's just missing, like okay, like no.

1470
01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:49,800
Speaker 2: He just like wandered off and everyone. Okay, Well we'll

1471
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:51,080
Speaker 2: get to that later, right.

1472
01:21:51,200 --> 01:21:53,719
Speaker 3: It's very strange. Okay, we'll see another talkback.

1473
01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:56,519
Speaker 5: Hey guys, this is Tamra from New Jersey.

1474
01:21:56,800 --> 01:21:58,760
Speaker 3: Stephanie, you were just saying how you need to have

1475
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:02,519
Speaker 3: your algorithms reset on your social media platform. In all honesty,

1476
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:06,040
Speaker 3: I need that too, the same crazy rabbit holes over

1477
01:22:06,080 --> 01:22:07,920
Speaker 3: and over and over again, the same people that I

1478
01:22:07,960 --> 01:22:09,479
Speaker 3: hear from over and over again.

1479
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:12,040
Speaker 2: Is there a way to actually reset that? Body?

1480
01:22:12,160 --> 01:22:13,040
Speaker 3: Come on, share.

1481
01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:15,639
Speaker 2: Your love you guys.

1482
01:22:15,680 --> 01:22:16,479
Speaker 13: Thanks for all you do.

1483
01:22:17,160 --> 01:22:17,720
Speaker 3: We love you.

1484
01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:20,040
Speaker 2: And great question and I would like the answer to

1485
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:25,640
Speaker 2: body your up please depend on the platform Instagram.

1486
01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:29,000
Speaker 3: So you go to your profile, you click your picture

1487
01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:31,600
Speaker 3: on the bottom right right, and then you tap the

1488
01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:38,639
Speaker 3: menu below what you see, tap content preferences, and then

1489
01:22:39,400 --> 01:22:45,080
Speaker 3: tap reset suggested content and then follow the instructions and

1490
01:22:45,360 --> 01:22:49,000
Speaker 3: reset your suggested content and then maybe restart the app.

1491
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:52,439
Speaker 2: Oh are you kidding me right now. Okay, I'm not

1492
01:22:52,479 --> 01:22:56,599
Speaker 2: kidding aver astounding answer. I was not expecting that answer,

1493
01:22:56,640 --> 01:22:58,240
Speaker 2: So I'm trying to do this right now. But again,

1494
01:22:59,320 --> 01:23:02,519
Speaker 2: not very great this. I thought the trick was, Hey,

1495
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:05,360
Speaker 2: I'm gonna play a lot of puppy stories, or you

1496
01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:08,879
Speaker 2: can do that military when they get this, either fans

1497
01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:11,639
Speaker 2: for the first time. Or how about the human chain

1498
01:23:11,920 --> 01:23:14,439
Speaker 2: of humans that I sent this to you guys, Like

1499
01:23:14,479 --> 01:23:17,479
Speaker 2: there was a dog at the bottom of sline and

1500
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:20,800
Speaker 2: all of these men and women, but specifically men because

1501
01:23:20,840 --> 01:23:24,280
Speaker 2: there's so many good ones out there, stopped in traffic

1502
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:26,880
Speaker 2: and they made a human chain to get the little

1503
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:29,679
Speaker 2: dog out of the ravine. And there was like nine

1504
01:23:29,760 --> 01:23:32,840
Speaker 2: men arm to arm, putting themselves in danger on the

1505
01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:36,320
Speaker 2: side of a highway and they saved the dog. Or

1506
01:23:36,479 --> 01:23:39,000
Speaker 2: if you watch Punch the Monkey on a loop for

1507
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:43,160
Speaker 2: a long time, eventually, how about how Punched the monkey

1508
01:23:43,280 --> 01:23:46,320
Speaker 2: was defending his new girlfriend because some of the monkey

1509
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:49,680
Speaker 2: came over and like swatted her, and Punch was like

1510
01:23:50,439 --> 01:23:53,400
Speaker 2: not having it because he is all love. He was

1511
01:23:53,439 --> 01:23:56,240
Speaker 2: sticking up for his new girlfriend. But if you watch enough,

1512
01:23:56,560 --> 01:23:59,519
Speaker 2: I think happy things, I think it kind of catches

1513
01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:01,320
Speaker 2: that vie, it'll start to switch.

1514
01:24:01,400 --> 01:24:05,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I That's what I normally do. But

1515
01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:08,640
Speaker 3: you absolutely every so like in Facebook, just said, the

1516
01:24:08,680 --> 01:24:12,479
Speaker 3: Facebook's the hardest one. But Facebook you can just tell

1517
01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:15,880
Speaker 3: your newsfeed to set it to friends only so that

1518
01:24:16,320 --> 01:24:19,000
Speaker 3: you just see your friends instead of all the crap.

1519
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:24,640
Speaker 3: Oh chiktok has a similar Yeah, with some process that

1520
01:24:24,920 --> 01:24:25,559
Speaker 3: Instagram does.

1521
01:24:25,640 --> 01:24:28,320
Speaker 13: Yeah, I'm we were talking about the dogs and everything cute,

1522
01:24:28,320 --> 01:24:30,960
Speaker 13: did you guys see Aaron Parness who we had on

1523
01:24:31,280 --> 01:24:34,040
Speaker 13: He had a really positive, cute story about the dogs

1524
01:24:34,040 --> 01:24:34,759
Speaker 13: that escape.

1525
01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:35,880
Speaker 2: It was actually I think it.

1526
01:24:35,840 --> 01:24:38,160
Speaker 13: Was in It's kind of sad when you hear this part,

1527
01:24:38,200 --> 01:24:41,040
Speaker 13: but it was in China and there were some dogs

1528
01:24:41,040 --> 01:24:43,200
Speaker 13: that were being taken to some sort of factory to

1529
01:24:43,240 --> 01:24:45,320
Speaker 13: be killed. I guess they all got out and you

1530
01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:48,000
Speaker 13: can see them all kind of being led by one

1531
01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:51,000
Speaker 13: German shepherd to safety, and they snuck away and.

1532
01:24:51,320 --> 01:24:52,160
Speaker 2: They went home.

1533
01:24:52,560 --> 01:24:54,240
Speaker 3: They actually went all the way home.

1534
01:24:54,280 --> 01:24:57,439
Speaker 2: So this pack of dogs got out of this van

1535
01:24:57,800 --> 01:25:01,959
Speaker 2: escaped this like abduction, and this group of like dogs

1536
01:25:02,439 --> 01:25:05,040
Speaker 2: followed the one German shepherd and they found their way

1537
01:25:05,120 --> 01:25:07,599
Speaker 2: home threw off to be killed.

1538
01:25:07,600 --> 01:25:09,840
Speaker 13: And even Aaron said, see I could even share some

1539
01:25:09,960 --> 01:25:10,960
Speaker 13: happy light views.

1540
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:13,639
Speaker 2: So I love that.

1541
01:25:14,200 --> 01:25:18,200
Speaker 4: I'm always so astounded my dogs. God bless them all.

1542
01:25:18,360 --> 01:25:23,080
Speaker 4: I love them all. No one's leading anyone anywhere. They

1543
01:25:23,160 --> 01:25:24,320
Speaker 4: can barely.

1544
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:27,240
Speaker 2: If for you, they would do anything. If they were

1545
01:25:27,280 --> 01:25:30,360
Speaker 2: missing you and somehow they got separated from you, they

1546
01:25:30,360 --> 01:25:35,599
Speaker 2: would find you. Even without a leg they would find you.

1547
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:37,920
Speaker 4: You know, I think the will might be there, but

1548
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:40,719
Speaker 4: these do. I mean, dogs can do such amazing things.

1549
01:25:40,720 --> 01:25:42,680
Speaker 4: And granted I don't train my dogs to do so,

1550
01:25:42,760 --> 01:25:46,160
Speaker 4: but yeah, that's an amazing German shepherd way to be

1551
01:25:46,200 --> 01:25:46,599
Speaker 4: a leader.

1552
01:25:47,120 --> 01:25:48,160
Speaker 3: That's awesome, you know.

1553
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:51,280
Speaker 2: I infamously Dodger, little Dodger, who is the smallest five

1554
01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:53,599
Speaker 2: pound dog in all of the land, the loudest five

1555
01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:56,439
Speaker 2: dog five pound dog, I might add. But he escaped.

1556
01:25:57,280 --> 01:25:59,719
Speaker 2: He was with a dog walker and the dog walker

1557
01:26:00,160 --> 01:26:02,680
Speaker 2: didn't pay attention, and he ran off. And he's as

1558
01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:05,439
Speaker 2: fast as a bunny, and he ran into the wilderness,

1559
01:26:05,479 --> 01:26:09,120
Speaker 2: into the Hollywood Hills where there's all eating dogs all night.

1560
01:26:09,640 --> 01:26:13,000
Speaker 2: And he was out there for close to two days,

1561
01:26:13,080 --> 01:26:15,640
Speaker 2: close to forty eight hours. We had like everybody in

1562
01:26:15,680 --> 01:26:19,840
Speaker 2: the world looking for him, and them we found him,

1563
01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:23,120
Speaker 2: and party Pants came back. Yeah, he had been partying

1564
01:26:23,120 --> 01:26:26,400
Speaker 2: all night. He didn't need any shots. He wasn't cut up.

1565
01:26:26,520 --> 01:26:29,240
Speaker 2: He's like the size of a squirrel. Frankly, Yeah, and

1566
01:26:30,280 --> 01:26:32,920
Speaker 2: he was just like raging with wolves and lived to

1567
01:26:32,960 --> 01:26:36,559
Speaker 2: tell the tale and was home safe and happy, perfectly safe.

1568
01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:40,600
Speaker 4: That was a miraculous, fine and funny story because it

1569
01:26:40,640 --> 01:26:44,439
Speaker 4: really was all hands on deck and ps. To this day,

1570
01:26:44,600 --> 01:26:47,880
Speaker 4: I still get like neighborhood watch alerts from Stephanie's old

1571
01:26:47,920 --> 01:26:49,200
Speaker 4: neighborhood five times ago.

1572
01:26:49,360 --> 01:26:51,519
Speaker 2: I cannot unsubscribe. I cannot.

1573
01:26:53,080 --> 01:26:55,679
Speaker 4: But also we were working in sort of a post house.

1574
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:57,400
Speaker 4: We were editing a couple of things, and it was

1575
01:26:57,439 --> 01:27:01,320
Speaker 4: a big office with a really big, you know, industrial printer.

1576
01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:05,800
Speaker 4: So we're printing all of these Dodger missing signs and

1577
01:27:06,080 --> 01:27:08,840
Speaker 4: want to print their scripts were like nothing to see here,

1578
01:27:11,800 --> 01:27:12,920
Speaker 4: a thousand.

1579
01:27:12,880 --> 01:27:15,960
Speaker 14: Like I was putting missing persons, you know, the missing

1580
01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:18,160
Speaker 14: dog up everywhere by the way, the posters, but work

1581
01:27:18,200 --> 01:27:20,080
Speaker 14: because he was wearing a cute little blue shirt and

1582
01:27:20,080 --> 01:27:23,840
Speaker 14: they were like A saw a dog open that hill,

1583
01:27:24,080 --> 01:27:26,400
Speaker 14: and sure enough he was like partying in a nest

1584
01:27:26,840 --> 01:27:27,439
Speaker 14: and I.

1585
01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:28,839
Speaker 3: Saw his little blue outfit.

1586
01:27:29,320 --> 01:27:32,080
Speaker 2: He rescued him. He's been out that he was out

1587
01:27:32,080 --> 01:27:34,840
Speaker 2: there for almost forty eight hours.

1588
01:27:36,360 --> 01:27:39,000
Speaker 14: Yeah, and I was just like, sobbing in your neighborhood,

1589
01:27:39,439 --> 01:27:42,120
Speaker 14: Dodger like a total nutbag.

1590
01:27:42,280 --> 01:27:44,519
Speaker 2: So he rests in peace. We love him so much.

1591
01:27:44,680 --> 01:27:48,479
Speaker 2: But yeah, like dogs are incredible, Like they have such endurance,

1592
01:27:48,520 --> 01:27:51,960
Speaker 2: So don't underestimate your dogs. Would Okay, find your way.

1593
01:27:52,080 --> 01:27:56,080
Speaker 2: You don't like dogs, body, No, I love dogs. I

1594
01:27:56,120 --> 01:27:57,160
Speaker 2: was like, what about.

1595
01:28:00,040 --> 01:28:03,280
Speaker 3: I'm in And then I have Mochi, my cat, who

1596
01:28:03,320 --> 01:28:06,400
Speaker 3: sadly is not doing so hot. She's so, you know,

1597
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:09,240
Speaker 3: twelve years old now, so she's not you know, she's

1598
01:28:09,280 --> 01:28:12,000
Speaker 3: just she's just shutting down a little bit. But no,

1599
01:28:12,120 --> 01:28:12,800
Speaker 3: I love my aunt.

1600
01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:15,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know you do. And you're the best dog

1601
01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:18,920
Speaker 2: and cat owner ever, both of you are. So I'm

1602
01:28:18,960 --> 01:28:22,680
Speaker 2: considering a new like a little like tired elder of

1603
01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:29,320
Speaker 2: a rescue, That's what I would do. Yeah, like no puppy, Yeah,

1604
01:28:29,640 --> 01:28:32,200
Speaker 2: so little like somebody who's a little lazy and likes

1605
01:28:32,240 --> 01:28:34,200
Speaker 2: to hang in the sun with me and sit on

1606
01:28:34,240 --> 01:28:37,000
Speaker 2: my left s i'm down, or you know, a little

1607
01:28:37,040 --> 01:28:40,479
Speaker 2: guard dog who's exhausted just like me. So somebody that

1608
01:28:40,520 --> 01:28:43,040
Speaker 2: you can cozy up with. But I don't know it's like,

1609
01:28:43,120 --> 01:28:45,120
Speaker 2: so the weather is so weird here. I also am like,

1610
01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:45,920
Speaker 2: that's a lot of walking.

1611
01:28:46,840 --> 01:28:50,759
Speaker 13: Wait till the string that feels like a it's officially

1612
01:28:51,080 --> 01:28:51,360
Speaker 13: you get.

1613
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:55,240
Speaker 4: If you get a little one, you can fence off

1614
01:28:55,320 --> 01:28:58,040
Speaker 4: a little area and they can have free run of

1615
01:28:58,040 --> 01:29:02,280
Speaker 4: the house and a little air are just because fencing

1616
01:29:02,400 --> 01:29:03,440
Speaker 4: is very expensive.

1617
01:29:03,439 --> 01:29:06,720
Speaker 2: But I don't know if your yard is big. It's like, no, Joe,

1618
01:29:06,800 --> 01:29:08,920
Speaker 2: the roof alone has been a nightmare. And yeah, all

1619
01:29:08,920 --> 01:29:10,800
Speaker 2: the things, but it is in my heart, in my head,

1620
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:13,240
Speaker 2: and I watched dog videos to reset my algorithm to

1621
01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:15,080
Speaker 2: go full circle. Let's go to another talk back.

1622
01:29:15,720 --> 01:29:19,840
Speaker 5: You were talking about normal one pizza, and my little

1623
01:29:19,840 --> 01:29:22,200
Speaker 5: girl was right next to me, and as soon as

1624
01:29:22,200 --> 01:29:25,439
Speaker 5: she heard Stephanie say pizza, her little ears perked up.

1625
01:29:25,479 --> 01:29:26,240
Speaker 2: And I hear this.

1626
01:29:26,200 --> 01:29:29,920
Speaker 5: Tiny little voice say, Mommy, I want pizza. And I

1627
01:29:29,920 --> 01:29:31,920
Speaker 5: can't tell her that we don't have any frozen pizza

1628
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:34,320
Speaker 5: because she knows I can make pizza from scratch, and yall,

1629
01:29:34,320 --> 01:29:36,880
Speaker 5: I just did not want to make pizza today, so

1630
01:29:37,240 --> 01:29:40,639
Speaker 5: she luckily suggested a girl cheese instead. But y'all almost

1631
01:29:40,640 --> 01:29:41,040
Speaker 5: got me.

1632
01:29:41,240 --> 01:29:49,679
Speaker 3: Y'all almost did. Let's mention vegetables. Pizza and a grilled cheese.

1633
01:29:49,760 --> 01:29:50,720
Speaker 3: You were my kind of mom.

1634
01:29:50,800 --> 01:29:51,439
Speaker 12: R mom.

1635
01:29:51,600 --> 01:30:03,040
Speaker 15: Yeah, tomato soup is my yes, yes, yes food me too.

1636
01:30:03,439 --> 01:30:06,240
Speaker 3: And I love cheese today.

1637
01:30:07,520 --> 01:30:08,880
Speaker 2: Why I don't have it with me right now and

1638
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:10,280
Speaker 2: we don't have time for me to go grab it.

1639
01:30:10,320 --> 01:30:14,000
Speaker 2: But I saw handmade pimento cheese at the delly down

1640
01:30:14,000 --> 01:30:14,400
Speaker 2: the street.

1641
01:30:14,960 --> 01:30:15,679
Speaker 3: Was it delicious?

1642
01:30:15,720 --> 01:30:17,040
Speaker 2: And I was like, is there gluten in this?

1643
01:30:17,200 --> 01:30:17,240
Speaker 11: No?

1644
01:30:17,320 --> 01:30:18,800
Speaker 2: It's going to eat it with you guys tonight and

1645
01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:22,559
Speaker 2: really show it up. But that'll be a tomorrow thing,

1646
01:30:22,800 --> 01:30:24,799
Speaker 2: always tomorrow. Let's yes.

1647
01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:27,120
Speaker 4: Oh, I was gonna say, let's all bring our cheese

1648
01:30:27,720 --> 01:30:32,120
Speaker 4: after l oh, yeah, and bringing nomo tomorrow.

1649
01:30:32,760 --> 01:30:34,880
Speaker 2: Do that party of.

1650
01:30:34,840 --> 01:30:35,720
Speaker 13: One wine.

1651
01:30:37,520 --> 01:30:50,080
Speaker 2: Like cheese in your hand. I don't care like parmesan grinds. Well,

1652
01:30:50,120 --> 01:30:52,280
Speaker 2: we won't say the word pizza too loud anymore.

1653
01:30:52,360 --> 01:30:54,920
Speaker 3: But that's awesome broccoli and.

1654
01:30:56,760 --> 01:30:59,519
Speaker 2: No social media grab.

1655
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:07,240
Speaker 14: Another antibody is on its.

1656
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:08,200
Speaker 12: Chance from Los Angeles, long time, first time. I just

1657
01:31:08,200 --> 01:31:10,479
Speaker 12: want to say how much I love the show. Thank

1658
01:31:10,520 --> 01:31:13,840
Speaker 12: you all for everything that you're doing when you take

1659
01:31:13,880 --> 01:31:16,960
Speaker 12: this very serious subject and make it consumable in a

1660
01:31:17,000 --> 01:31:20,599
Speaker 12: way that doesn't make me depressed but also still makes

1661
01:31:20,600 --> 01:31:22,160
Speaker 12: me think about the world around me.

1662
01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:26,800
Speaker 3: Thank you all, thank you first time.

1663
01:31:27,240 --> 01:31:27,680
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1664
01:31:30,320 --> 01:31:33,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, thank you so much. I think you

1665
01:31:33,320 --> 01:31:40,080
Speaker 3: said Chance, Chance from Chance. I didn't love La my

1666
01:31:40,200 --> 01:31:42,240
Speaker 3: hockey team. The mascot is.

1667
01:31:42,240 --> 01:31:46,920
Speaker 2: His name is Chance. Yeah, what is the mascot. It's

1668
01:31:46,960 --> 01:31:49,840
Speaker 2: a it's a gilla monster. I don't do it.

1669
01:31:49,840 --> 01:31:50,720
Speaker 3: It's the dumbest thing.

1670
01:31:50,920 --> 01:31:52,840
Speaker 2: I don't even want to say that, but.

1671
01:31:52,800 --> 01:31:54,719
Speaker 3: It's a it's like a lizard.

1672
01:31:55,439 --> 01:32:00,680
Speaker 2: Okay, mascots. Your mascot be yeah, like.

1673
01:32:01,439 --> 01:32:04,760
Speaker 3: A lizard for the Vegas Las Vegas Golden Knights.

1674
01:32:04,800 --> 01:32:07,360
Speaker 2: Like it's hot lizards in Vegas.

1675
01:32:07,400 --> 01:32:08,840
Speaker 3: But you would think it would be like a night

1676
01:32:09,800 --> 01:32:12,160
Speaker 3: right like anyway, thank you to.

1677
01:32:13,840 --> 01:32:16,120
Speaker 2: You know, my nephew is going to be in the

1678
01:32:16,280 --> 01:32:18,720
Speaker 2: NHL potentially here in Nashville.

1679
01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:21,400
Speaker 3: So for the Predators, good old Jesse.

1680
01:32:21,600 --> 01:32:26,200
Speaker 2: Is are you serious crushing it? He is astounding hockey play.

1681
01:32:26,320 --> 01:32:28,840
Speaker 2: Have you been to a game? It's so dedicated. No,

1682
01:32:28,960 --> 01:32:30,040
Speaker 2: he's going to be here this summer.

1683
01:32:30,160 --> 01:32:31,880
Speaker 3: You know what they do when there's a goal, or

1684
01:32:32,360 --> 01:32:34,600
Speaker 3: not a goal but a hat trick, They throw catfish

1685
01:32:34,600 --> 01:32:36,120
Speaker 3: on the ice in Nashville.

1686
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:42,000
Speaker 2: Really, yes, you show up with catfish in hand.

1687
01:32:42,360 --> 01:32:45,480
Speaker 3: They literally go to the game with like hidden catfish

1688
01:32:45,800 --> 01:32:50,080
Speaker 3: somewhere on their body. And if somebody scores three goals

1689
01:32:50,080 --> 01:32:51,960
Speaker 3: in a row, that's a hat trick, right, or a

1690
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:55,040
Speaker 3: game that's a hat trick. And for whatever reason, in

1691
01:32:55,160 --> 01:32:58,360
Speaker 3: Nashville they throw catfish in the ice when that happens.

1692
01:32:58,560 --> 01:33:02,080
Speaker 4: But that's insane because patricks are so so rare, so

1693
01:33:02,160 --> 01:33:03,120
Speaker 4: everyone is.

1694
01:33:03,720 --> 01:33:05,040
Speaker 2: Majority of games.

1695
01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:11,240
Speaker 3: In Detroit, octopus a crime. In Las Vegas, we throw

1696
01:33:11,360 --> 01:33:15,759
Speaker 3: pink flamingos, like a plastic flamingos. No animals were harm Yeah, yeah.

1697
01:33:15,800 --> 01:33:17,240
Speaker 13: Do you know what they do in l A what

1698
01:33:17,280 --> 01:33:18,799
Speaker 13: they throw in the Kings?

1699
01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:20,400
Speaker 3: I don't know what they do. Actually, I'm not sure

1700
01:33:20,439 --> 01:33:20,720
Speaker 3: what they do.

1701
01:33:21,040 --> 01:33:26,560
Speaker 2: I don't know that they do anything a cash handles.

1702
01:33:26,600 --> 01:33:28,280
Speaker 3: You know, I did do a lot of games there,

1703
01:33:28,479 --> 01:33:30,240
Speaker 3: and you know the Kings don't score a lot, so

1704
01:33:30,520 --> 01:33:37,320
Speaker 3: you know, don't kill me. Yea, My best friend Taylor's

1705
01:33:37,360 --> 01:33:40,000
Speaker 3: team is the Kings. I only said that because she's yeah,

1706
01:33:40,560 --> 01:33:43,000
Speaker 3: and Tiffany, Tiffany loves anyhow.

1707
01:33:43,240 --> 01:33:45,519
Speaker 2: Well, listen this that kind of flew by. You know,

1708
01:33:45,640 --> 01:33:51,559
Speaker 2: didn't have Jarrett Farentino tomorrow. You are correct, our very

1709
01:33:51,600 --> 01:33:53,880
Speaker 2: favorite lawyer. So if you have any questions for him,

1710
01:33:54,000 --> 01:33:56,439
Speaker 2: please leave your talk backs, keep them coming, and he'll

1711
01:33:56,479 --> 01:34:00,360
Speaker 2: be here live tomorrow for sure. And anything else taha

1712
01:34:00,360 --> 01:34:01,680
Speaker 2: that we should be looking forward to.

1713
01:34:02,680 --> 01:34:05,320
Speaker 13: Well, I think towards the end of the week, our

1714
01:34:05,360 --> 01:34:10,280
Speaker 13: friend Kim Allen is back with astrological information and zodiac

1715
01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:13,760
Speaker 13: tie in, so we can look forward to that. So

1716
01:34:14,040 --> 01:34:17,720
Speaker 13: I've got that coming up. And Abe's back tomorrow, so

1717
01:34:17,960 --> 01:34:19,760
Speaker 13: excited that she'll be back and joining us.

1718
01:34:19,840 --> 01:34:21,040
Speaker 3: Hi Aba, welcome back.

1719
01:34:21,160 --> 01:34:23,920
Speaker 2: Welcome back, and again, happy birthday, Mom, we love you,

1720
01:34:24,240 --> 01:34:26,680
Speaker 2: and happy birthday.

1721
01:34:26,840 --> 01:34:28,960
Speaker 3: Happy all right.

1722
01:34:28,920 --> 01:34:30,960
Speaker 2: Love they say that there, have a great night, everybody.

1723
01:34:31,000 --> 01:34:31,400
Speaker 7: We love you.