1 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,119 Speaker 1: You are listening to you waiting on reparations at production 2 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: of My Heart Radio. Somebody helped me. I'm depressed because 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: when Daddy gets to try to plant and sends it's 4 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: all the way to holiday and then exotic plates always 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: in the blowing lines, doesn't any kid? And Marla Candon 6 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,119 Speaker 1: Planet ended all the rays of places. I'm probably not okay, 7 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: cart but not restating the far away from where the 8 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: Hiltons live and the headling Bill the crabs butter because 9 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: my will to live is minimal. Should gold the twenty 10 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: six years old? Isn't it pitiful? But because just truly 11 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: the cruel squiler, if you did it right, could at 12 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: truth to be something beautiful. I don't have nothing this week, 13 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 1: yo yo, I just I just want to spit though, 14 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: make you feel ship walking in my big black boots. 15 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: That's the steel tip was a wooden puppet. I just 16 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 1: want to be a real kid or whatever. As long 17 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: as I boy being and Neil lived like Neil did, 18 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: I'll be moving faster than you see. You don't know 19 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: if his computers are a master in my cheek. Keep 20 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: guessing I'll be sweating like the pastor when he preached 21 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: and got him pay attention like his I'm a teacher. 22 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: Now you kids, don't pass or I'll whip your at 23 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: and know my white friends sack because the crypto crash. 24 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: All right, dad, Hey, what's good? What's good? People? I'm 25 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: dope knife lingua franca. We are waiting on reparations. Man, Harry, 26 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: that ship up, so it's good with you, yo? Nothing. 27 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: I mean I heard there's some wild ship going up 28 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: in Athlete. So I think I've spoken in recent episodes 29 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: about the uptick and gun violence. He had a recent shooting. 30 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: I may have referenced that suspect it's fifteen years old. 31 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: I suspected who have killed a thirty eight year old 32 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: man with an a R fifteen. Um, I'm getting calls 33 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: like every day from people who like mothers whose houses 34 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: got shot up in them and their seven kids are 35 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:00,040 Speaker 1: now homeless as they're seeking to move somewhere safer. And 36 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: then Sunday, UM, I got a uh. It was informed 37 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: that there was a an attempted robbery at a local 38 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: pool UM the like a splash pad like aquatic recreational 39 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: facility UM about a ten minute walk from my house. 40 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: UM where a guy showed up with a rifle and 41 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: trying to steal the cash box and then upon leaving 42 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: h car jack someone at gunpoint. Um. And then when 43 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: the police arrived, um, they shot him. They shot him 44 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: to death. And so that is like that all transpired 45 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: in the park where I walk every day, UM, Sunday 46 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: and so. And you know, I've been speaking with people 47 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: who work in the like with the homeless community also 48 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: very near my house. They believe this man may have 49 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: been a part of that community. Um. Um his he 50 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: went by, his name has been released, but he but 51 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: but in the like a homeless community, like he went 52 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: by like a um, like a moniker. Until they're trying 53 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: to confirm that this was the person they think it 54 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: was because they haven't they hadn't seen this guy around, 55 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: you know, he wasn't around yesterday. They won't really where 56 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:17,359 Speaker 1: is he? And so um you know, I I uh 57 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: kind of issued a statement about the situation. UM. You know, 58 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: there's two ways to answer the question did this have 59 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:27,679 Speaker 1: to happen? And if you look at the facts of 60 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: the immediate context that he was armed with the rifle 61 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: that he you know, assaulted several people, um and had 62 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: a standoff with the police, the short answer would be yes, 63 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: if you look at the fact that he may have 64 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: been homeless, and you know, look at all of the 65 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: all of the things in his life that led him 66 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: to that point that he's gonna rob the cash box 67 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: from a children's like uh like uh, pool and steal 68 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: a car like you know, you're not living your best 69 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: life if you got to that point, and that everything 70 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: every support he may have had or lacked is a 71 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: matter of public policy, like you know, And any opportunity 72 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: he may have had her lacked, any stability he may 73 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: have had her lacked, are all choices that governments make. 74 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: And imagine it's going to be pretty hard for them 75 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: to put together exactly what what when we're wrong. And 76 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: that's really a broader policy prescription that I've argued previously 77 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: for and I feel like I'm or just from this 78 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: scenario as well, is that we do not have a 79 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: comprehensive system of reporting on collecting information about the folks 80 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: that end up in our jails or end up interacting 81 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: in the criminal justice system, about the life circumstances that 82 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: brought them to the point of criminal activity. And imagine 83 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: what we could do with that information if we had 84 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: a quantifiable if we had a database of like, uh, 85 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,799 Speaker 1: you know, interviews with every person that ends up getting 86 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 1: picked up by the cops and so is sitting in 87 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: jail and and say, huh, we have a remarkable pattern 88 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 1: of people that dropped out of high school, or of 89 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: people that had substant abuse issues, or people that were homeless, 90 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: like and could like use that data to say maybe 91 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: we should invest in house thing so that yeah, you're 92 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 1: stopping for you even get to that point. And so 93 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: I've just had that. Really it's been waiting on me 94 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: a lot, and and then and it comes and it 95 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 1: actually comes to them. It brings us to the topic 96 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: of this episode. UM interview that I did a few 97 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: weeks ago with my friend and journalist and writer pal 98 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: Matt Polver, we talked about neoliberalism and the fact that 99 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: every like every other part of the social safety net 100 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: underneoliberalism gets the ax, housing gets the accent. You know, 101 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: um uh, well, you know the various for benefit programs 102 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: is up for grabs, up for privatization, except or and 103 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: even not even except and even um uh security forces. 104 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 1: You know that that that's that's the last standing I 105 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: guess social safety net, if you game call it that 106 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: safety net for so long though, does it even necessarily 107 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: qualify as the safety net anymore? And so fucking tight rope. Yeah, 108 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: it's like thinking that it's it's tight together like band 109 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: aid bandages, right right right? Yeah? And so I, um, 110 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: you know, everyone thinks I'm a compaiter and stuff, and 111 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 1: that might you know, be accurate sometimes, but in this 112 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: regular scenario, going back to the scenario, this dude, I 113 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: feel I feel terrible for the police officer that had 114 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: to shoot this man. Are unraveling of a social safety 115 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: net put him in the position where he had to 116 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: kill someone. Like no, but I don't want that for anybody. 117 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: Then I'd of doubt they want that for themselves. And 118 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: so um. In this episode we kind of talk about 119 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: the the like what neoliberalism is, how we see it 120 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: manifest particularly in Atlanta and in Atlanta hip hop and 121 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: so um, I'm just also reflecting, uh, the last couple 122 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: of days on how we're seeing it here in Athens, 123 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 1: how we see that, how we see it everywhere, um, 124 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: and and how it directly impacts you know, you think 125 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: very sister systemically about you know, these systems of power 126 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: and like capital, etcetera. But like the way it impacted 127 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: what man's life that ended on Sunday because he was 128 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: so desperate he stole forty bucks out of a cash 129 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: box at a children's playground. Yeah, and it's like nobody, 130 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: nobody really is going to ever get to know, like 131 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: what his full story was. No, no one will ever 132 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: know his his whole story. I doubt that you know, GB. 133 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: I will do an investigation determined, the Georgia Verreau Investigation 134 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: will do an investigation determined the shooting was justified to 135 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: close the book on it and walk away, because context, 136 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: like the idea of like, oh, the context of which 137 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: this thing happened is so limited to like the the 138 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: the immediate contacts and what happened, and and loses all 139 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: of the full context that actually explains both why it 140 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: happened and how it could be prevented. So well, ladies 141 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: and gentlemen, we're going to be back with that interview 142 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: with Matt Polver right after the jump. So we are 143 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: here with uh Matt pulverum a writer that's based here 144 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: in Athens, Georgia. Um. So not thanks for joining us. 145 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,239 Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about who you are, Matt Pulver. 146 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: I'm a writer and UH researcher here in Athens, Georgia. 147 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: I'm happy to have you on here. UM. I've loved 148 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: a lot of the work that you've done, both on 149 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: you know, local pieces of history, but then particularly this 150 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: piece UM you wrote in two Douz sixteen I believe 151 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: UM Empire State of the South, UM, which talks a 152 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 1: little bit about neoliberalism, talks a lot about neoliberalism and 153 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: the ways that it's impacted in Lennon hip Hop and 154 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: so usually on the show we look at specific pieces 155 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: of policy, housing policy, policing, labor, but this week we're 156 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: gonna be looking at sort of a bundle of policy 157 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: choices made under the common framework of neo liberals liberalism. 158 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: And how have you seen that impact Atlanta and then 159 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: UM consequently consequently UM Atlanta and hip Hop. But to 160 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: start out to make sure we and our listeners are 161 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: beginning from a similar foundation, let's talk about what neoliberalism 162 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,959 Speaker 1: is before discussing some of its manifestation manifestations in the 163 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: city Atlanta. So, how would you define neoliberalism? Yeah, I mean, 164 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: I'm okay, so neo liberalism, what ner? What neoliberalism isn't 165 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: uh for me? Is UM new liberalism, like liberal like 166 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: the way in the States we talked about you know, 167 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: the Democrats are liberals and and and the neoliberal would 168 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,959 Speaker 1: be just like a new liberal right the way to 169 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: the segment the words you would just be like oh sure, 170 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:49,079 Speaker 1: like if you are new and you are to the left. 171 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: Actually more specific than that, confusingly, it's it's a conservative 172 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,719 Speaker 1: raft of policies. I mean it's it's basically, you know, 173 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: it's hyper capitalism. Um. You know, it's liberal liberalism in 174 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 1: the in the old school uh sense, the more sort 175 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: of European sense of the word, where you know, the 176 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 1: liberalization of of markets, um, making basically the extension of 177 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:19,719 Speaker 1: of of capitalist logic two virtually anything and everything. So 178 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: typically how I think about it, you know, in the 179 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 1: last thirty years, you can think of it as maybe 180 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: like you know, Reaganomics or or Faturism, um that didn't 181 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 1: gets adopted by uh liberals so called you know the 182 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 1: Clinton I sort of democratic party, but it begins, I mean, 183 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: it's a conservative project. It's you know, it's uh, it's 184 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 1: the encroaching or or the sort of the devouring of 185 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: the nation state and the functions of the nation state 186 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: by capital. So you know what does that mean. It 187 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: means like you know, privatizing uh in fort rupture privately 188 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: you know, water, privatizing education, public housing. UM, it's the 189 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 1: you know, ultimately what it is is sort of the 190 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:16,959 Speaker 1: erasure or at least the dinution of national sovereignty, uh 191 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: at the behest of of you know, globalized capital um, 192 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: you know, after neo liberalism. Mean you know, so so 193 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: what you know does two things you know, sort of 194 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: inside the country. What it does is it it's it's 195 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: Welfairer form under Clinton. It's it's attempts to privatize education, 196 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: privatized infrastructure, privatized prisons, private size, privatize the military, all 197 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: these big uh huge federal outlays that that investors look at, 198 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: uh all the you know the world overlook at and 199 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 1: and just you know, lick their chops that you know, 200 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: there's so much money to be made if you if 201 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: you made every student a a customer basically, So you 202 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: do that sort of internally and then externally sort of 203 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: on the global scale, you now have uh multinational you 204 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: know or even sort of post national sort of corporate 205 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: entities and banks and flows a capital that uh that 206 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,839 Speaker 1: that override national sovereignty, you know, so then you have 207 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,559 Speaker 1: things like the NAFTA zone, and then you had you know, 208 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: the Transpacific Partnership that was you know scuttled, but you know, 209 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: we'll probably come back in some form. Uh. But but yeah, 210 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: but simply it's it's it's the shrinking of government, um 211 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: and the sort of the ultimate devouring of government. And 212 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: it's and it's uh, you know, and it's actions by capital. 213 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: It's hyper capitalism to put it, to put it in 214 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: a sort of a word. And so if yeah, totally, 215 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: totally And in the piece you talk a little bit 216 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: about how, for example, with like free enterprise zones, which 217 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: um Clinton I Democrats termed empowerment zones to kind of 218 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: give it more by fire, sup by in and it 219 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: sometimes has the sheen of like, oh, expanding liberties, giving 220 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: people more options, lifting people up by like giving more 221 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: people access to markets, when really it's it seems like 222 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: it's giving markets more control over human lives than um 223 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:27,199 Speaker 1: than like enduring you know, uh, ensuring rights through how 224 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: like strong strong forms of government, right, because I mean, 225 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:36,959 Speaker 1: you know, you know, capital is not beholden to you know, 226 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,319 Speaker 1: say what you want about about the state of you know, 227 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: American democracy and the ability to to alter its course. 228 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: You know, citizens, Uh, there's still an avenue for that. 229 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: Capital doesn't doesn't have to give two ships about you 230 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: and doesn't you know. So it's it's a it's an 231 00:13:55,679 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: entirely different arrangement, um when you when you invite capital 232 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,719 Speaker 1: and to be uh more and more the sort of 233 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,079 Speaker 1: the sole arbiter of people's fates. That's you know, where 234 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: they have no say whatsoever, you know in the end. Yeah, 235 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: So in your in your PSU, you say that, um, 236 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,319 Speaker 1: neoliberal globalization doesn't make the many nations into one, but 237 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: each into many, which I found really interesting because by 238 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: the definition just gave it sounds like, oh, you know, 239 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: it's with like NAFTA or like TPP like globalization. It's 240 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: like you know, raising borders making us all uh citizens 241 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: of this one global like community. So can you talk 242 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: us a little bit about this idea of actually the 243 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: way that neal liberal neoliberal globalization sort of creates more 244 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: borders and because further fragments and segments society in certain ways. Yeah, yeah, 245 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: I mean I think this is I feel like this 246 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: is an under studied, under analyzed uh component of of 247 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: neoliberal globalization because yeah, I mean I think we have 248 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: this sort of you know John Lennon utopia is sort 249 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: of in our minds. Uh yeah, yeah right. And it 250 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: does do that. I mean, it does connect you know 251 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: that it does connect London to New York, to Rio 252 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: to Beijing. There are nodes um of capital that do 253 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: exist in in in a large sort of global apparatus 254 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: or or a network. You know that that is real 255 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: um and and it and it does erase um the 256 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: the power of borders in a lot of ways, especially 257 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: for capital, not not not for people, um, ask anybody 258 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: on the southern border of this country. But um. But 259 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: it it either you might think of it as a 260 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: sort of replacing or moving the those sort of earthtwhile 261 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: national borders um into into the nation state itself. So 262 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: um it starts to bisects and segment um nation states 263 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: that that used to be more whole or unitary um. 264 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: While simultaneously connecting um nodes of of capital power metropolis 265 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: is you know uh uh and and the various sort 266 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: of capital flows and supply chains. You know it does. 267 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: There is this connecting of the world, but then also 268 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: this simultaneous um dividing of of you know, cities and 269 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: and and cities from rural areas. Um. You know, there's 270 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: a oh God, I forgive his name, but there's a 271 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: there's a British thinker who or writer who has this 272 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: conception of of the anywheres in the sumwhares then anywhere 273 00:16:55,880 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: is are sort of the cosmopolitans um who you know 274 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: might live in or near a big metropolis in the 275 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: States or or anywhere across the world, and they are 276 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: in a way more connected to each other than they 277 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: are to their um sort of countrymen, for lack of 278 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 1: a better way of saying, fellow citizens. UM. And I 279 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 1: think that's uh, that's honestly, I think that's that's how 280 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: we partially diagnosed the political crisis here in the States 281 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: and in Britain, Brexit, uh, India, you know, all over 282 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: the world, these you know, these anywhere's, these sort of 283 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 1: people who um are um you know, engaged in you know, 284 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 1: the knowledge economy and can sort of could could easily 285 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:48,959 Speaker 1: plug themselves into London or Beijing or or Lapoor or someplace, 286 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: and and the somewheeres who who are who are still 287 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 1: rooted in place, um in anyway. And so in Atlanta, 288 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: we we you know, we see m UM, especially during 289 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: the nineties, we see a heightened a manifestation of this 290 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: where you see these UM borders that are that are 291 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: increasingly determinative, you know, of of of someone's fates or 292 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: people's fates UM inside the old nation state. If that, 293 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: if that, if that makes any sense. Yeah, let's get 294 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: into specifically how we see this manifest physically and like 295 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 1: the geography of Atlanta, perhaps starting off with thinking around 296 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: UM like housing policy. UM. So in the piece, you 297 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: speak a little bit about back when they were preparing 298 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: for the Olympic Games, uh, things they needed to make 299 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: the city look nice for all those influx of people 300 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: that were coming, and what some of the impacts were 301 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: on what that then meant for the way in the 302 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: city got redeveloped UM in that time. Yeah, I mean 303 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,959 Speaker 1: it's Atlanta provides a really interesting way to look at, 304 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: you know, the twentieth century where you have in FDR 305 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: comes to Atlanta to commemorate Techwood Homes right there in 306 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 1: the in the middle of Atlanta at the first public 307 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: housing for for Atlanta and white white Americans at the 308 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: time UM and then in UM Techwood Homes becomes the 309 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: first public housing uh project demolished by the City of 310 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: Atlanta on their way to demolishing all all public housing 311 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: stock in the city of Atlanta. Atlanta becomes the first 312 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: major American city two demolish all housing UM to pursue 313 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,199 Speaker 1: uh what you know, to replace it with what they 314 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: called a diversified real estate company. The head of the 315 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 1: U Atlanta Housing at Thorne talked about uh connecting the 316 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: projects with quote the world of modern real estate, capital 317 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: and finance, UM, privatizing thing basically or semi privatizing, right exactly, 318 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,199 Speaker 1: the idea of like with like empowerment. So I was like, oh, 319 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: we're modernizing, you know they of Atlanta. It sounds so 320 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: like like grand and like uplifting in a certain sense. 321 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,479 Speaker 1: But it's like, who was it lifting ultimately living capital? 322 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: It's not it's not really like looking at the people 323 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 1: are living in these homes, etcetera. Yeah, I mean, yeah, 324 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's a pretty story that they 325 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 1: can they can tell UM. But I mean if you look, 326 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: if you look at where you know tech what Holmes 327 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 1: used to be, Uh, it was right smack dab there 328 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: next to Georgia Tech, right where Centennial Park is right 329 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: against the edge of it. Uh that was just fantastically 330 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 1: valuable real estate that was right in the middle of 331 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 1: of their little Olympic stuff they wanted to do. Uh. 332 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: It was also uh you know, it's where uh poor 333 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: folks lived. And then they didn't They wanted to, you know, 334 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: get the city all gussied up for for their little 335 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 1: twirl on the international stage. So it served these you know, 336 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: these multiple purposes. We get get rid of those uh 337 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 1: that blight of of of the poor people who have 338 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: been left behind by the city. Um, and also clear 339 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: the way for for capital. Um also turns it turns 340 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:32,439 Speaker 1: each of those public housing residents into you know, they 341 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: either get a voucher or just have to make it 342 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: on their own. And it turns into uh profit bearing 343 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: customers now and and and listen, no one saying that 344 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: that the the twentieth century public housing model was perfect. Um. 345 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,400 Speaker 1: There were certainly things that probably you know, they needed 346 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: to be done, but uh, you know it was. I 347 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: think it's honestly its best to think of it. It's 348 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: like urban renewal. It's the there's no less there's no 349 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: less trauma in demolishing every single home of people in 350 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: public housing in Atlanta. That's no less traumatic than than 351 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: what happened in the you know, forties fifty sixties during 352 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: urban renewal. Um. It's it was actually perhaps even on 353 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 1: a larger scale. Yeah. I mean, you say what you 354 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: want about public housing and like its quality and what 355 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: um having these condensed pockets of poverty than me and 356 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: for the quality of life people living there with regards 357 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: to crime, etcetera, qualities of schools, But like displacing those 358 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: folks and mass it's certainly gonna be traumatic, no matter 359 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: no matter how well they're living where they are. For sure. Well, yeah, 360 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: I mean because it's not it's not done. The residents 361 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: are not the ones with agency. I mean, you know, 362 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,120 Speaker 1: it's it's it's one thing. If you know, it's it's 363 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: a it's done from above, just like urban renewal was. 364 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: You know, there have been renewal that that bill uh 365 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: a lot of those projects. Um returned again and said, 366 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: you know, like you know, we need this land over here. UM, 367 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 1: so here, we're gonna put you all over We're gonna 368 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,239 Speaker 1: take your houses, uh, knock them down, burn them down, 369 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: put you in this public housing over here. Fifty years later, 370 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: Oh no, we need that land over there. We need 371 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: that public housing land. Sorry about that. We're gonna push 372 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: you out, you know, and now give you Section A 373 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,479 Speaker 1: vouchers or whatever, and uh, good fucking luck. Like they did. 374 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: They didn't, they didn't track anybody they you know, for years. 375 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 1: I used to I talked to some researcher at Georgia 376 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: State back when I was writing this and you know, 377 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: and asked, does anybody know where those people ended up? No, 378 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: because that wasn't that wasn't even an afterthought. They don't care. 379 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: They needed the length and then and they needed those 380 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: folks out of the way until they did it, you know, period. 381 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: That that's what happened. So how do we see the 382 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: impacts of particularly neo liberal housing policy manifest like in 383 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: hip hop music from Atlanta as particularly in the PC 384 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: speak about a number of music videos that, like in 385 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: the visuals that are presented kind of tell the tell 386 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: the story of of um of a lot of the 387 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: impacts of policies such as these. Yeah, I mean, you 388 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: know you'll see it in in in visuals um where 389 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: you have, you know, because when you what you end 390 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: up with are these little, you know, smaller and smaller 391 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: sort of pockets of you know, especially as the sort 392 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 1: of the wealthy infill has happened in cities like Atlanta, 393 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: where everybody's come back in the upperly mobile, you know, 394 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 1: folks have come back in and throwing their weight around. 395 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 1: You have these you know, smaller and smaller pockets of 396 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: intense wealth and intense poverty, and they're sort of, you know, 397 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: very close to each other. It's it's very um uh 398 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: a sort of a chaotic patch work of you know 399 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 1: of of and you see it also in places like Detroit. Um. 400 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: I think Danny Brown, Detroit rapper uh has wrapped about this. Um. 401 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 1: Is this a song called like field House, I think. 402 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: And it's like field field House house House, field House 403 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 1: field that Nika muff Thick like where you know where 404 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: there's fields where they used to be houses and and 405 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: it's just this um, it's this sort of Mike grow 406 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: rearrangement of the geography. UM. When it's when it's when 407 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: it's not macro, but like you know, it's it's it's 408 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: very it's strange there. You know, there their walls in 409 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: between like um, you know really really uh upscale condos 410 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: and like Edgewood and then like affection eight housing separated 411 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: by this like big you know, border wall sort of 412 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: thing with cameras and and you know, spikes or whatever. Um. 413 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: And and then and then you have rappers who who 414 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: grew up uh you know, in the in the projects 415 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 1: and those those were their homes. And you know, so 416 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 1: there's a there was a rapper pill. There is a 417 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: rapper pill Um not as big as he was a 418 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: few years ago. He was with Killer Mike for a 419 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 1: little while and I think may back music and um, 420 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 1: you know, he he talks a lot about that, you know, 421 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:28,959 Speaker 1: I mean he he speaks on that that utter powerless, 422 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,360 Speaker 1: the people struggle to the streets, sent them calling them 423 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: hall that got out the people preaching column of phone 424 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 1: of calling a place home but you know, and not 425 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 1: the not the best home in the world, but it 426 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: was it was your home. You you know, you live 427 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 1: your life. You you you know, I mean you just 428 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: have that to have that taken from you, um and 429 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: on mass you know, with with no with no with 430 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 1: no argument or agency on your on your part. Um. 431 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: So yeah, pill is a is a rapper talked a 432 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: lot about that. Um. There's been some others um, you know, 433 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 1: and and you know it could be argued, and I can't. Um. 434 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 1: It could be argued that, you know, the stuff you 435 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 1: see by the end of the nineties plase thousands in 436 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 1: Atlanta hip hop um sort of reflects this darker mood. Um. 437 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: You know, like by the time you get to like 438 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: outcast Stankonia, UM, it's got a darker, more political vibe. 439 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: UM Killer Mike Uh drops his first album somewhere in 440 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,679 Speaker 1: the early those first years of of of the two 441 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: thousand's UM Goody mob was you know, speaking on some 442 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: of this stuff during the nineties. Um. But if things 443 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: get there's this weird paradox right where you have you know, 444 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: and and thinking more broadly to step to to zoom 445 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: out from from Atlanta during the nineties, Uh, when Atlanta 446 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: is experimenting with this hyper capitalism. More broadly, you have 447 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: this uh sort of capitalist triumphalism. Right, that's the end 448 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 1: of the Cold War. Communism has been vanquished, and so 449 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 1: in the political elite you have this this I mean, 450 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: they're they're fucking giddy. It's this this triumphalism, this imperial 451 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: and capitalistic triumphalist spirit. It's the end of history, right, 452 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 1: says Fukiyama. UM. But on the on the on society's 453 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: um edges. Let's say, Um, you and certainly in youth 454 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: culture you've across the board, Um you find uh that 455 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: is not shared at all. There's a there's a there's 456 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: there's a sort of a darkness that that is, I 457 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: would argue recognized by uh youth culture broadly her hip 458 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: hop for sure. UM, that's saying, you know, things aren't 459 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: so sweet, right, I mean like Clinton is is printing 460 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: about you know, with the with you know, the the 461 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: doal is going through the roof, and you know the 462 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: stock market is is incredible. Uh. Um, but you know 463 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: folks like Killer Mike and dead Press and all these 464 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: people that are coming coming around in the into the 465 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: nineties early two thousands or saying Na, she ain't sweet 466 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: like that, like um and and and and I think 467 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: in Atlanta you see that you see a real pronounced 468 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: um case of of this sort of disconnect between the 469 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: elite spirit of of triumphalism and and and capitalism will 470 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: solve everything, markets will solve everything, every social ill um 471 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: and and folks on the bottom or or on the edges, 472 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: however you want to say, are uh providing a counter 473 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: narrative to that. I was thinking about a little bit 474 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: about what the relationship is between because we talked a 475 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: little bit about like the way impacts geographies and then 476 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: the peace you talk about the way that then geography 477 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: is in Atlanta, it kind of gets split up in 478 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: then in Atlanta, hip hop gets split up into these 479 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: police zones, which is actually something I've I'm familiar with 480 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: through like the uprising last summer and like organizing around 481 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: like where different protests we're gonna be like people talk about, 482 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: Yo're gonna be in Zone wanting only in Zone three, 483 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: like these these like the police states sort of like 484 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: delineating these neighborhoods in a way that actual community a 485 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: sense of community cohesion or like or um or continuity 486 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: of like landscape with regards to like actual physical neighborhoods 487 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: and people living to get there together do um. And 488 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: so I wonder if you could speak some to the 489 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: with the relationship between neoliberalism and like the rise in 490 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: policing in it and yeah, yeah, that's that's a good question. Yeah, 491 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: I mean, the only the only part of the state 492 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: that really survives intact um when when the liberalism makes 493 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: its way in is you know, is is police powers 494 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: is the monopoly on violence. And yeah, I mean it's 495 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: such a it's I mean, we all know if you 496 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: if if you've grown up listening to Atlanta hip hop, 497 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: I mean you know, you know which rappers are from 498 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: which police zone, and so we're it's kind of a 499 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: natural things like Gucci is from Zone six, you know, Like, 500 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: but but what a dystopian fucking geography like you know, 501 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: not like you know, you're not from you know in 502 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: New York. You know you're from uh you know, um, 503 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: Spanish Harlem, you're from bed Sty, You're from you know, 504 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: they at least they they it's got a name. It's a. 505 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: It's a. It's a in Atlanta, it's a. Yeah. The 506 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: it's it's drawn by the power of the police, in 507 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: the jurisdiction of of the police. Um, which is which 508 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: is just so fitting in in in the first you know, 509 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: American neoliberal city. That that would be how geography comes 510 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: to be marked um by police zone. Um, you know, 511 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: free enterprise zones. No, no, I mean, no rapper ever 512 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 1: you know shouting out free interprise zone. But that's another 513 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: you know, these these strange zones where you know, it's 514 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: it's all about the presence or absence of governmental power 515 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: in in in the various ways that it can manifest, 516 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: whether through you know, regulation and taxation or or or 517 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: or the means of violence or you know, and coercion. 518 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: You know, it's it's it's just, um, it's it's it's 519 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: extremely neoliberal to me. Yeah, and so I guess why 520 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: I hear you're saying what I hear from Like when 521 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: as now thinking about the music through this lens, it's 522 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: like you might hear people talk about the under investment 523 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: in their communities around areas like housing or education, or 524 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: the struggles to get a job because you know, capital 525 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: slowing into the hands of the of of you know, 526 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: elite corporations and not necessarily being channeled from the government 527 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: into communities that need uplift. But the only thing that 528 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 1: gets left that like the government is funding is the police. 529 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: And so if you you know, fun the police. You've 530 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: got people out here, you have like Rich Holdmy Kwan 531 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: and his music video you reference to the in the East, Um, 532 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: you know, tussling with the cops, because that's the that's 533 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 1: the last direction that's the left between government and the 534 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: people that people even have under the policy paradigm. Yeah right, 535 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: I mean and yeah, I mean you you know, you 536 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: you end welfare, you you start tearing down people's homes, 537 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: and so people are in more and more precarious states. 538 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: So you know, so the feeling by you know, government 539 00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 1: leaders and the elite is that we well, we need more, 540 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: more cops, more uh, you know, more cells, more, more prisons, 541 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,959 Speaker 1: more you know, um, and and there's and there's never uh, 542 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 1: there's never a hesitation to to drop money on that. Um. 543 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 1: But you know, housing, you know, and and and and 544 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 1: the rest of it, um, you know, is neglected. Um. Yeah, 545 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: I mean it's it's it's sort of the that's the 546 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 1: last sort of you know, residue of of the state, 547 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: you know, under under increasing neoliberalism. I think and and 548 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 1: and Supercommandante marcos Um, the Tapatista spokesman. Yeah, I didn't 549 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: know about this until I read to a piece and 550 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: I was like, Yo, that's crazy, that's super cool. Yeah. 551 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: I talked to something about like their reaction to some 552 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: newliberal policies. I guess it was in the early nineties. Yeah, 553 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,839 Speaker 1: so so they yeah, so they they kick off their 554 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: rebellion against the Mexican state and on January one the 555 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:04,840 Speaker 1: day that NAFTA went into effect. Um and Supercommandante Marcos 556 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: was sort of the spokesman for the group and end 557 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 1: up ended up sort of becoming the for a while. 558 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,720 Speaker 1: They're the sort of the premier voice on on on neoliberalism. 559 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:21,319 Speaker 1: And as he hypothesizes, Uh, you know what it does 560 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: is that it doesn't It doesn't you know, unite the 561 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: world into into one big, shiny happy place. But you know, 562 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:32,320 Speaker 1: place starts placing borders, um inside you know, the erstwhile 563 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:37,359 Speaker 1: nation states and uh and and leaves only the sort 564 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: of the residual power of of the police, and and 565 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 1: I guess the military, um, but certainly the police, the 566 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: sort of the the internal you know, armed apparatus of 567 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:56,759 Speaker 1: the state. Um. Yeah, you know Marcos is is helpful, uh, 568 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: you know, to think about, to think through you know, 569 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: what happened in the nineties and and ship was happening now. 570 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: But um, he has some really uh some really good 571 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: insights on on sort of what what happened in that 572 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: really crucial moment of the nineties when basically the entire 573 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 1: world becomes for the first time in human history, Uh, 574 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: the entire world becomes a a fully capitalist space. Um. 575 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 1: So yeah, I can't say enyhing about Marcos. Yeah, and 576 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 1: I feel like I hear echoes in that, like they 577 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: were rising up in their own way. And then you've 578 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: got like Killer Mike um who in Reagan and other 579 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,359 Speaker 1: songs kind of talked about like rebelling against the state, 580 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:43,279 Speaker 1: like being surveilled, being under this constant valence um and 581 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 1: having to like kind of fight back like you know, 582 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:52,240 Speaker 1: who's that people in my window strapped, etcetera. Uh, perhaps 583 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: not through as like crystallized of you or like as 584 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 1: you know, with that like sort of the clarity of 585 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: framework of like Howell and things have come together to 586 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: create the situation, but still the same sort of like 587 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 1: e those of like no man they say, right and 588 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: like I'm gonna fight back. The only have to take 589 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:16,320 Speaker 1: me a lat yeah right right, yeah, yeah yeah that 590 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 1: in that surveillance piece to right like um yeah you 591 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: know goody mob has you know, self therapy from sometime 592 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 1: in the in the mid to late um. You know. 593 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: Then Mike uh sort of interpolates that um and and 594 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,360 Speaker 1: you know, and then you also have in Atlanta you 595 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: have these sort of public private partnerships or or just 596 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: the entrance of capital into policing where you know, they're 597 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 1: they're just this this proliferation of cameras everywhere, um, private 598 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:50,880 Speaker 1: you know, but but then they're sort of commandeered by 599 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 1: the cops UM through various you know, arrangements where you know, 600 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: the cops can and I'm not sure exactly how it happens, 601 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: but they get they can get on the back end 602 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 1: of private, private sector cameras that the police have access to. 603 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 1: And so it's this way of like privatization. But but 604 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:16,239 Speaker 1: as long as the police still have controls and like 605 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: uh are well funded too, like uh take advantage of 606 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:27,359 Speaker 1: you know, the ways that capital marginalizes effectively. Yeah right, yeah, 607 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I mean, and like I was saying earlier, 608 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: you know where you have that sort of weird paradox 609 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 1: of of that triumphalism among the elite and then and 610 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 1: anger and desperation at the edges you see. Yeah, I mean, 611 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 1: whether it's Killer Mike or or UM Immortal Technique, Dead Preys, 612 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,319 Speaker 1: most Deaf, you know, all these all these folks Um 613 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: the Roots their album UM and that comes out in 614 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 1: what maybe two thousand something like that things fall apart, 615 00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,319 Speaker 1: you know, everything is I think there's just a either 616 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 1: a darker tone that that starts to emerge or a 617 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: revolution and you know and and and with folks like 618 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 1: dead pres and and more technique and people like that, 619 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:18,080 Speaker 1: I mean a revolutionary Um, a revolutionary stance. I mean, 620 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: you know, the pres um and well and our you 621 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:27,800 Speaker 1: know socialist black nationalists, um, and who provided just you know, 622 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: such such a counter narrative to you know, that Clintonite 623 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 1: Reaganite again triumphalism, that that that that glorious victory that 624 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 1: the American empire had had achieved. Yeah. Um. In wrapping up, UM, 625 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:50,600 Speaker 1: I had one last question. We kind of talked about, 626 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 1: but when neoliberalism manifest and housing policy with the displacement 627 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,960 Speaker 1: of UH communities in public housing. We talked a little 628 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 1: bit about the way it feeds into economic development with 629 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 1: empowerment zones. Talked about the way it's sort of how 630 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: the police stayed ends up being the only thing left 631 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: of the state. UM. As all these things get privatized, 632 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:14,880 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk a little bit about the privatization 633 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: they attempted privatization of water in Atlanta, because this is 634 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,319 Speaker 1: actually something that most step touches upon someone in New 635 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:26,759 Speaker 1: World water Off of both sides, UM, so talk to 636 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: us a little bit about that and then UM, uh yeah, 637 00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 1: I might like bring up the song the most step 638 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,319 Speaker 1: song and like kind of related to them. Yeah yeah, 639 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,319 Speaker 1: I mean yeah, it's it's it's it's it's not as UM, 640 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,360 Speaker 1: it's not as sexy maybe UM as you know, the 641 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:50,360 Speaker 1: privatization of police or the military or whatever. But you know, 642 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:55,359 Speaker 1: at at the time when when Mayor Campbell privatizes Atlanta's water, 643 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 1: it was the largest UH public infrastructure privatization and you 644 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,279 Speaker 1: us history it still might be I'm not I'm not sure, 645 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: but I mean it was. You know, that was one 646 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 1: of those last frontiers for UM global capital. So you 647 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 1: know this, this this multinational UH meta national conglomerate Suez 648 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: UH buys this this hefty chunk of Atlanta infrastructure, the 649 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:28,800 Speaker 1: provision of water UM at the same time that another 650 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,400 Speaker 1: UH big multi national conglomerate had done the same in Bolivia. 651 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:38,880 Speaker 1: Now in Bolivia it ends up sparking and uprising UH 652 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:44,360 Speaker 1: in coach Obamba, which then eventually gives us UH abl Morales, 653 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,680 Speaker 1: who as a leader in that in that rebellion, UH 654 00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,080 Speaker 1: he was a cocoa farmer union leader, and then becomes 655 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 1: of course the president, very popular president of of Olivia 656 00:41:55,480 --> 00:42:00,239 Speaker 1: for years after that. But in Atlanta, UM, it's it's 657 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 1: a it's quieter um it. It goes off without a 658 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 1: hitch for a while until it hits the fan. Uh 659 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:13,680 Speaker 1: because because corporations so't hefty business vessing with our water UM, 660 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 1: and it showed and uh that thing that I mean 661 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:21,719 Speaker 1: it was only a few years and that plan went 662 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,920 Speaker 1: belly up and in Atlanta had to figure out a 663 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 1: new way to do it. But uh, yeah, I mean 664 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,120 Speaker 1: it's um Like I said, it's it's it's not the 665 00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,640 Speaker 1: it's not the sort of sexist it's not of of 666 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:40,359 Speaker 1: neoliberalisms um conquests. But you gotta think like these are 667 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:44,919 Speaker 1: these huge apparatus is where you know, at the city, state, 668 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,960 Speaker 1: federal level that that corporations look at and they're thinking, 669 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 1: you know what, why is this, why is this? Why 670 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,880 Speaker 1: is this being publicly why is this publicly owned? You know? Uh, 671 00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:00,759 Speaker 1: when when we could be making money for investors and shareholders. Well, 672 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,600 Speaker 1: I actually think like the privatization of something is basic. 673 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,600 Speaker 1: It's water is like sexier perhaps even then when we 674 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:12,400 Speaker 1: talk about privatization of housing or or um channeling government 675 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:17,360 Speaker 1: funds into um um projects in the private sector around 676 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:21,040 Speaker 1: economic development. Because water is so basically we can argue, 677 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,719 Speaker 1: like I don't want to have to argue, but I 678 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,319 Speaker 1: will argue someone over whether housing is a human right, 679 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,400 Speaker 1: whether the government has a duty to economically empower people. Oh, 680 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,359 Speaker 1: you literally can't argue that. Like everyone like you need water, 681 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:36,799 Speaker 1: like you can be without everything else in your life. 682 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 1: If you don't have water, you cannot live. And so 683 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,719 Speaker 1: like the fact that it's so basic actually makes it 684 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,880 Speaker 1: more insidious and more interesting potentially than like squabbling over 685 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,600 Speaker 1: like well should the public housing, you know, we should 686 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 1: public housing even exists conversation I don't want to have 687 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,800 Speaker 1: to have, but do have to have other times of 688 00:43:54,840 --> 00:44:00,200 Speaker 1: bossing making Yeah, that that's a good point. Like in Bolivia, um, 689 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,279 Speaker 1: there was a they would say that, I forget the 690 00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:08,719 Speaker 1: big corporation that that bought Olivia's water, but somehow, per 691 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:14,640 Speaker 1: the agreement or the contract they owned the Oblivians would 692 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,799 Speaker 1: say that that that this company owned the rain, which 693 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:21,719 Speaker 1: is a really fucking dystopian way of thinking about these 694 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,960 Speaker 1: because apparently like any rain that would fall into cisterns 695 00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,360 Speaker 1: or something that would be collected was was was property, 696 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:36,839 Speaker 1: was a commodity owned by some multinational, faceless corporation. Um, yeah, 697 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:42,160 Speaker 1: I mean to own the rain is fucking dark. So yeah, yeah, yeah, 698 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,320 Speaker 1: you're right. I mean it's it's it's at the basis 699 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:48,279 Speaker 1: of human life and for it to be commodified. And 700 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,000 Speaker 1: again in the in the case of Bolivia, they they 701 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:57,840 Speaker 1: they buy the rain and then uh dramatically hike the prices. 702 00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:59,440 Speaker 1: I want to say, like they tripled the price of 703 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,279 Speaker 1: water something for you know, for for some desperately poor people. 704 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:05,920 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's why you get that's how that's 705 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,239 Speaker 1: how you get a revolution real quick, revolution real quick. 706 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:13,279 Speaker 1: And that's why it's perhaps more like scintilating than like, oh, 707 00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,080 Speaker 1: if the government is not providing housing like we're used 708 00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,520 Speaker 1: to that suddenly we don't got the water. Yeah no, 709 00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:23,040 Speaker 1: people about to be at the streets. Yeah right, yeah, no, yeah, 710 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,680 Speaker 1: I think you're right. Yeah. Word, well, thank you for talking. 711 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 1: We're talking with us, are talking with me. Um, where 712 00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,480 Speaker 1: can people keep up with your writing and other projects 713 00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,480 Speaker 1: we're going on? Um, you know, I'm not doing a 714 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:36,920 Speaker 1: ton of writing right now, but you can certainly check 715 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:41,000 Speaker 1: out my page on medium. That's where you can find, uh, 716 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:44,520 Speaker 1: this article that we were talking about um um and 717 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,640 Speaker 1: a handful of others. Uh yeah, Matt Pulver on on 718 00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:56,319 Speaker 1: medium would be the place to go. So that was dope. Yeah, 719 00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,400 Speaker 1: that was Matt Pulver. Where do you say that we 720 00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:00,279 Speaker 1: could find him again? He said, check out out his 721 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,319 Speaker 1: page on medium. Yeah, he's got a medium. Yeah, because 722 00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,560 Speaker 1: like Matt Pulver Medium, he's on that ship. I think 723 00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:09,240 Speaker 1: he's like Matt Pulver on Twitter. He's got funny tweets. 724 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,799 Speaker 1: I mean, like, but they're pretty it's pretty low key. 725 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,160 Speaker 1: I know that whole conversation was bad. You know, he's 726 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:17,880 Speaker 1: a funny motherfucker. Yeah, yeah, and very smart, very smart. 727 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,759 Speaker 1: Educated me a lot about people to throw around the 728 00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:25,279 Speaker 1: term new cano liberalism a lot um what like what 729 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:26,920 Speaker 1: do we what do we really mean when we say that? 730 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,279 Speaker 1: It's one of those like you can make fun of 731 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,520 Speaker 1: it by saying something something neoliberal because people use it 732 00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:37,240 Speaker 1: so much, right, but like really understanding like the transferences 733 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,920 Speaker 1: of capital and power that it entails and how it 734 00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,600 Speaker 1: like all those things come together. It's like a uniform system. 735 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,719 Speaker 1: And I'm all about you know, definitions, you know, definitions 736 00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,640 Speaker 1: of words and meanings of words. So that's that was 737 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,919 Speaker 1: useful for me, so now I won't misuse that ship. 738 00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,360 Speaker 1: Next week, we're going to be speaking about District Attorney 739 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:04,080 Speaker 1: Larry Krasner's reelection UM as disert attorney in Philadelphia. He 740 00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,280 Speaker 1: was going up against the um you know, police unions 741 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,279 Speaker 1: and has been very progressive and kind of one of 742 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:14,080 Speaker 1: the leaders of the progressive prosecutor movement across the country. UM. 743 00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:16,440 Speaker 1: And so we're gonna talk about what it means that 744 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:20,200 Speaker 1: he got re elected last week. We'll also we'll also 745 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:25,280 Speaker 1: talk about hip hop's connection or relationship with various district 746 00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,600 Speaker 1: attorneys as in real life and threw her in rhyme too. 747 00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,919 Speaker 1: Hey Joe, Joe, Joe, can you please drop a beat 748 00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:44,200 Speaker 1: for us? Oh yeah, float like a butterfly, thing like 749 00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,120 Speaker 1: a B. I don't wrap like these other guys to 750 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,320 Speaker 1: sing R and B if you wack us some other lines. 751 00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:50,520 Speaker 1: Bring out a street when you smoke to the crime. 752 00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:52,400 Speaker 1: See all the seeds on the streets. They know me, 753 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:54,520 Speaker 1: calling me the dope one. We lingual Frank and we 754 00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,080 Speaker 1: both roam like show guns the feet, hordes and sheets 755 00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,479 Speaker 1: swords and go dump hi, y'all save in the world 756 00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:01,840 Speaker 1: to smoke lunch, No dunch, put a knife and the 757 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,120 Speaker 1: ship room for my elbows. You know who cipher it 758 00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,520 Speaker 1: is comes made to fire like a vendomou spiper. Spit 759 00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:08,759 Speaker 1: marry to this hip hop. Get doing life for a bit. 760 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,360 Speaker 1: So I'm never waiting and I'm looking for some reparations. 761 00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,880 Speaker 1: Republicans are trying to put his back in segregation. This 762 00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:17,480 Speaker 1: is just a taste of just a little demonstration. While 763 00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:23,560 Speaker 1: you hate it. I'm like Franca, I'm dope night and 764 00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,799 Speaker 1: we are waiting on reparations. Yes, damn, that was off 765 00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:32,279 Speaker 1: as fune. Listen to Waiting on Reparations on the I 766 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,960 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.