1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to Stephane 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: never told your production of I Heart Radio, and it's 3 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: time for another female first, which means we are once 4 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: again delighted to be joined by our friend, the amazing, 5 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: the wonderful Eaves. Welcome e Hi. I feel like we 6 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: should do a super cat of these introductions, trying to. 7 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,239 Speaker 1: I try to mix up the superlatives I give you 8 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,279 Speaker 1: every time, but I don't know how well I'm succeeded. 9 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:41,279 Speaker 1: I like it. I'm here for it. I feel very 10 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 1: welcome every time, and I feel like that's the point 11 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: of them. So I feel you are special. And we 12 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: just had a very interesting conversation about cockroaches. Yeah in here, 13 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: I'm I'm dancing. Ye yep, we're all on edge. You're 14 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: looking around until on the high schoovel right now, waiting 15 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: for something to show up. Yeah. Yeah, because it's very 16 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: warm here and that's when the cockroaches come out. And 17 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,119 Speaker 1: in my experience, and it also sounded like we had 18 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: I think we could write, you know, some poems, some 19 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 1: essays about cockroaches. Yeah, we might have to for Catharsis 20 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: pretty soon, honestly, I think so. I think so, and 21 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: I think it is interesting, and I swear this is 22 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: all going to relate to what we're talking about, um, 23 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: how cockroaches are in my case spiders. We were talking 24 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: about kind of these life changing events and for me, like, 25 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: there are certain things I do because of bugs, And 26 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: one is I flipped my all my glasses are down 27 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: so they can't get into glass before I've gone to 28 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: fill up a glass with water and there was a 29 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: bug in there, been there. Yeah. True. I don't do 30 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: that though, so yeah, I should think about that. I 31 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: feel like I'm like really amping or getting everybody on edge. 32 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: But you've got a jacket, a jacket thing, Yeah, I do, 33 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: I sow any when the warm months roll around and 34 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: I know that the cockroaches are about to show up, 35 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 1: I will be really careful about taking my my sweaters 36 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: and we'll not sweaters like hoodies and things that have 37 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: arms and a lot of material on them and shaking 38 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: them out before I wear them because I had a 39 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: roach in one of my jackets when I was younger 40 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 1: and it just scarred me for life. So I honestly 41 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: like I feel a little bit embarrassed and guilty about 42 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: having to think about that when I take stuff because 43 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: I'm like, I shouldn't still be living with this. This 44 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: feels like trauma living in the body. But I'm not 45 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: going to release it. Honestly, I'm not because no matter 46 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: how many people try to tell me that insects are 47 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: cool and they're necessary and that I shouldn't be afraid 48 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: of them because they're smaller than me, I some things 49 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: I just had to accept aren't logical, and this is 50 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: one of them. So I'm going to continue to be 51 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 1: myself and do that. All these bugs have defense mechanisms 52 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: and it scares the but Jesus out of Most people 53 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: actually have a similar experience with scorpions because we had 54 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: them in growing up and they would get into our shoes. 55 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: So I will check my shoes because I have been 56 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: stung on the foot because the scorpions calling into things 57 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: like that. So I think that's just the universal people 58 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 1: have some typically I think someone has. Everyone has something 59 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: along those lines, because they're mean. These little bugs are mean. Yeah, 60 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: I do feel like people who can deal with it 61 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: that are really cool, Like I would be a little 62 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: bit cooler if I was just like, oh, you know, 63 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: you gotta get this book out of here. Gonna pick 64 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: it out ran and take it outside and there you go, 65 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: scoot on away, you know. But now I just have 66 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: to freak out. I don't I don't believe those people. 67 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: I'm like, I know you're freaking out, and you're just 68 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: trying to be cool. I know. My dad was somebody 69 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: who would be like, we're not killing that s I e. 70 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: We're gonna take it outside. I used to have a 71 00:03:57,840 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: lost nest in my room, so I would literally wake 72 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: up with like thirty wasps in my room. Every morning. 73 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: He would come in with like tweezers and he would 74 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: just put him back outside. He would get back in. Yeah, 75 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: it was one of those things. Looking back now, I'm like, wow, 76 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: what an interesting thing to live with. But I had 77 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: a cousin who he kind of grew up in in 78 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: a place that further north that didn't deal with bugs 79 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: like this. He came to stay with us one time 80 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: when he was like nine years old, and I told 81 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 1: him the scorpion thing. I was like, you gotta okay, 82 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: you gotta check your shoes. Freaked out, and then I 83 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: told him about like the wasp. Freaked out, and then 84 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: the cicadas. The sound of the cicadas. He called his 85 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: parents and said, you gotta get me out of here. 86 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: I cannot take this again. It's true, Southern living is 87 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: a whole different thing. It is. It's an acquired taste 88 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: for many reasons, for so many reasons. Um, okay, well, 89 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: I suppose we should get into our topic for today. 90 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: I feel like we could continue on this route for forever. 91 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: But who did you bring for us to discuss today? Today? 92 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: We're going to be talking about Anne Petrie. So. Ann 93 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: Petree was the person who wrote the first book by 94 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: a black American woman to sell more than a million copies. 95 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: We're gonna be getting into her story today, a little 96 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: bit about her up upbringing, how she started writing, Um, 97 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: the things that she cared about. Yeah, she had a 98 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:37,599 Speaker 1: lifeboll lived. So I'm excited to talk about her. Yeah. Yeah, 99 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: and a lot of very good quotes, which I know 100 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: you love. Oh my goodness, Yes, okay, yes, the list 101 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: some of her quotes that really really struck me. It's 102 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 1: some funny you mentioned that, because you know I do. 103 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: I really love to get into the quotes, and I'm like, 104 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: I won't honestly won't get into too many today. Um, 105 00:05:56,120 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: but she did give some interviews, and she did, um 106 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: write quite a few short stories, and she wrote a 107 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: few novels. But um, just as a little teaser. One 108 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:09,919 Speaker 1: of the things that I think is super relevant about 109 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: her story and that I love, love, love, and like 110 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: I'm probably going to be dwelling on and lining sit 111 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: within me for the like the next like month or so. 112 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: Probably it's gonna be on my spirit is the way 113 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: that she talked about public exposure, and UM, I would like, 114 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: I really would love to know how she feels about 115 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 1: how we interact with public exposure and ideas of personality 116 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: and celebrity and fame today. But um, we should talk 117 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: about a little bit more about her and so so 118 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: everyone knows who she is before we get into that. Yes, 119 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: but I do want to say I thought of you 120 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 1: and I read those quotes about public ex social It's 121 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: like this feels very like eased to me. Yeah, I 122 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: would love to know. Yeah, when we I'll pause there. 123 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: I would love to know both of your thoughts on 124 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: that for sure. Yeah, all right, but I suppose we 125 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: should yes, build led up to that they get into 126 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: some history, so we'll start from the beginning. She was 127 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: born Anna Houston Lane in nineteen o eight in old Saybrook, Connecticut. 128 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: Her parents were Bertha Ernestine James and Peter Clark Lane. 129 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: Her mother was a barber and beautician and she later 130 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: started a business making line and lace, tablecloths and napkins, 131 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: and her father owned and operated a drug store which 132 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: they lived above, and they actually stayed in for many 133 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: many years. They had one child who died as an infant, 134 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: and Helen Louise Lane. Their other child was Ann's older sister. 135 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: There weren't many black families in their town, and later 136 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: called it an essentially hostile environment for a black family. 137 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: But in the nineteen ten cents is one of her 138 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: uncles and aunts were listed as members of the household. 139 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: So another of her aunts, Anna Louise James, who comes 140 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: up later in her story. Um, she had her own 141 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: first Actually she was the first licensed Black American woman 142 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: pharmacist in Connecticut. But um. When Anne was four years 143 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: old she started going to Old Saybrook Elementary School. She 144 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: and her sister were bullied at the school, but their 145 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: uncle's went to school with them one day and shut 146 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: that down. Um. She read the book Little Women and 147 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: Did by Louisa May Alcott when she was in elementary 148 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: school and she really connected to it um. So she 149 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: was starting to getting too reading. And in nineteen fifteen 150 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: and his mother graduated from the New York School of 151 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: Koropoti in Harlem, and she started practicing near the family 152 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 1: drug store. But her father took a job in Hartford, Connecticut, 153 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: so he would go out there and spend time with 154 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: family while he was there, and he would come home 155 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: in the weekends. And so Anna's aunt and Louise James, 156 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: took over the pharmacy and was soon its owner. And 157 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: I'll call her from now on and pe. Yeah, so 158 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: she became a member of the church. Because there there 159 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: is a little bit confusion in the name. So she 160 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: was born Anna, but she is referred to as Aunt Petrie. 161 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, so she became a member of the church. 162 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: Her family attended the Old Staybrook Congregational Church. She was 163 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: an active member for the rest of her life. And 164 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: she graduated from Old Staybrook High School. And it was 165 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: during this time where she talks about. Ann says that 166 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: she got interested in writing UM and she was kind 167 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 1: of encouraged by a teacher who didn't like her. But 168 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 1: she realized that when her teacher called out one of 169 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: her essays and read it to the class, and she 170 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: realized that she really liked writing and it was something 171 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: that she wanted to do. But anyway, in nineteen twenty six, 172 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: she started attending Hampton Normal and Agricultural Institute, which is 173 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: now Hampton University in Virginia, where she took courses in 174 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: mail prep and domestic economy. But she left there soon 175 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: after a strike happened um due to staffing and teaching concerns. 176 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: She started going to a College of Pharmacy in New 177 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: Haven in ninety eight, and she graduated and kind of 178 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: followed the family line, began working for the family store 179 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 1: in old Saybrook, then an old line in Connecticut, so 180 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: she was kind of following the same path that had 181 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: already been forged by her father and her aunt. And 182 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: during this time she was already um, she was already 183 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: a writer, so she was already sending short stories to 184 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: magazines and getting rejected. She talks about how she could 185 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: fill rooms with her rejection slips, which I think is 186 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: something pretty much every writer can relate to. But she 187 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: met George David Petrie on a trip to Hartford and 188 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: they married in March of nineteen thirty six in New York. 189 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: But at that point she didn't tell her parents. She 190 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: was pretty secretive about the marriage at that time. But 191 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: a couple of years later she married him in a 192 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: public ceremony at her parents house. So you'll see her 193 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 1: not in a period in her record keeping not really 194 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: commenting on the nineteen thirty six marriage at the time 195 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 1: that they were married, but the night as the quote 196 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,719 Speaker 1: unquote official marriage are the ones that other people and 197 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: her family recognized. Um. But yeah, So they moved to 198 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: Harlem not long after they were married, and it was 199 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 1: at this point that she switched professional direction towards writing, 200 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: so what she was making money off of though she 201 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: said she known that she been wanted to be a 202 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: writer since high school. So this is where we get 203 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: deeper into her career. After she moved to New York, 204 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: she worked in an after school program In Harlem, she 205 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: worked as an advertising copywriter for a wig company, then 206 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: got a job in the advertising depart men at Amsterdam News, 207 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: and in nineteen nine she published her first short story, 208 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: Marie of the Cabin Club, in the Baltimore Afro American 209 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: under the pseudonym Arnold Petrie. She wrote a few more 210 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: works under the pseudonym as well. She got paid five 211 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: dollars for that one. A year later she she acted 212 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,439 Speaker 1: in as a newspaper editor in an American Negro theater 213 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: production of Orange Driver's Row. And yes so. But after 214 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: a while she stopped working at the Amsterdam News and 215 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: she went to the People's Voice to work as a 216 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 1: women's editor. And it was at this point where she 217 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: was becoming more involved in activism. It's a whole list 218 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: of things, but for brevity's sake, there here are a 219 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,839 Speaker 1: few things. She was involved in the Consolidated Housewives League, 220 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: which aimed to stop the quote unquote shady practices of 221 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: unscrupulous merchants. UM. She helped establish Negro Women Incorporated, which 222 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: helped provide working class women with info and purchasing things, 223 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: and it encouraged political action and voting and things of 224 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 1: that sort. And she also volunteered for the Laundry Workers 225 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: Joint Board. So she kept writing and she kept publishing. 226 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: By the way, I mean, that is her whole life 227 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: pretty much. UM. Writing, working and things that are related 228 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: to writing, teaching, UM, doing lectures, interviews, things of that 229 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: sort was constant throughout her entire life. She was accepted 230 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: into Mabel Louise Robinson's writing workshop after she found out 231 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: about it, which was at Columbia University, and she studied 232 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: with her for a couple of years, and she really 233 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: she credits a lot of her interest and love and 234 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: passion for writing to Mabel Louise Robinson UM. But she 235 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,959 Speaker 1: was let go from the People's Voice because of staff cuts. 236 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 1: She did though, go on to work a number of 237 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: part time and temporary position and her story on Saturday, 238 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 1: The Sirens Sounds at Noon was published in the crisis. 239 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: When an editor who was at home in Mifflin read 240 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: her story, they reached out and acts if she was 241 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: working on a novel and suggested that she applied for 242 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: the Hoe in Mifflin Literary Fellowship. So that's when she 243 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: She didn't have a novel, but she started working on 244 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: the street and she submitted it to the fellowship. She 245 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: ended up winning two thousand four dollars from the fellowship 246 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: to work on the novel. She did finish the novel 247 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: and then she went on and published it, and so 248 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: this is her first UM. On February seven, ninety six, 249 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: she published the novel. It sold twenty thousand copies before 250 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: it was released and eventually it sold over one million copies, 251 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: making it the first book by black American woman to 252 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: do so. So her first novel, her debut novel, Um Yeah, 253 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: was released to a lot of critical and clearly commercial 254 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: um success. Uh. The novel is about a single black 255 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: mother and her son and Harlem and the main character 256 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: in his book, as are a lot of the characters 257 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: in the works that she created. Was were driven by 258 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: the pursuit of the quote unquote American dream. It was 259 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: received pretty well, but obviously there are always people who 260 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: aren't fully okay with it. Um. Some did criticize his 261 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: depiction of Harlem, and there was a lot of back 262 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: and forth with it being optioned for a film. It 263 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: considered forced to be on the stage, but that didn't happen. 264 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: But that same in Hoe and Mifflin published her second novel, 265 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: which was Country Place about a white family in a 266 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: small town in Connecticut. So this is what we kind 267 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: of referred to at the top of the show, how 268 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: it was at this point, Like you can imagine the 269 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: amount of attention that was dumped her her in this moment. 270 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: It was her first novel that was coming out. It 271 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: was released to a lot of fanfare. She was going 272 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: to the parties, doing the interviews and all those sorts 273 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: of things. And you know, even though there were some 274 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: critics who, you know, the second novel is like the 275 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: all the comparison to the first novel that happens, there 276 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: were some critics who didn't think her second novel was 277 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: as up to par up to the part of the 278 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: first one. But she was getting tired of all that 279 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: fanfare that she had to endure because of her newfound celebrity. 280 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: And she described feeling like quote unquote public property, and 281 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: she even destroyed some of her letters and writing and 282 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: she said that it made her quote feel as though 283 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: I were a helpless creature impaled on a secting table 284 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: for public viewing. And she didn't even want people to 285 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: photo copy work from her archives. There is her a 286 00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: lot of her work is saved in archives, some of 287 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: her manuscrept of her letters and photographs and things like that. 288 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: But when it came to the question of people asking 289 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: her if they could photocopy it, she was definitely buttoned 290 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: up about that and didn't want it to be reproduced 291 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: in that manner. So, yeah, she really she clearly clearly 292 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,959 Speaker 1: valued privacy and seclusion, you know, um, one thing that 293 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: we often don't have a lot of this these days 294 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: and talk a lot about the protection of those things 295 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: in technological ways. And so she moved to Old Saybrook 296 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:35,479 Speaker 1: with George and this is pretty cool. They got an 297 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 1: old house originally built for a sea captain in late 298 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,680 Speaker 1: eighteenth century and ended up renovating it. But yeah, that's 299 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: kind of a thread at this point in her life 300 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: where she kind of removed herself from all of the 301 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 1: limelight and all of the the business um that comes 302 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: along with the family she got from her work and 303 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 1: didn't interact with it in that way. And the interviews 304 00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,959 Speaker 1: that she did, given what she wrote in her journal, 305 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: she talked about how that was intentional. You know, she 306 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: realized that she knew that she had to make that 307 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 1: move for herself. Yeah, so that is something I think 308 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: that YouTube, as well as being podcasters and knowing how 309 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: much interacting and engaging with the world through things like 310 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 1: social media is considered a necessity in a lot of ways, 311 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: even though it's not completely a necessity, but that's the 312 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: way that it is uh pressed upon people who are 313 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 1: quote unquote personalities, are public figures, are public intellectuals, which 314 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: sounds like such an like I don't know, maybe not, 315 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,400 Speaker 1: because I know there are people who who who claim 316 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: the title for themselves and are okay with it. But yeah, 317 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: so I figured that's something that we can all relate to. Yes, 318 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: And I feel like I'm worried that I won't give 319 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: this the complete nuance so that it deserves. But just 320 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: like kind of when I was first going through this, 321 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 1: they're so many things that I did relate to UM 322 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: in terms of and and we've talked about this on 323 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: the show, UM in terms of what is expected when 324 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: you are a public figure and what is owed as 325 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 1: a public figure, and what you feel like you have 326 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,360 Speaker 1: to give and how That's kind of why I thought 327 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: about you, Eaves, because to me, you feel like somebody 328 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: who's very cognizant of boundaries and UM taking care of 329 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: yourself and self care and UM internalizing drama. I could 330 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: be totally wrong, and you could tell me, but I'm 331 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: all about the trauma. Actually, that's what it feels like 332 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 1: that you're good at sort of at least recognizing that 333 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 1: it's been something difficult for me, because especially when you're 334 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 1: in the arts, it feels like you have to give 335 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: parts of yourself. Maybe you don't want to, and maybe 336 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: you do, but then it becomes expected. And so like 337 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: this part where she destroyed a bunch of her own works, 338 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 1: her own writings and things like that, Um, I've done 339 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 1: that as well, and I think that can be as 340 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: long as you're doing it, because maybe you're like, oh, 341 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: this is terrible, I don't want anybody whatever. But I 342 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 1: did it because I just was like ashamed of how 343 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: other people would interpret it, and kind of that idea 344 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 1: of I've also talked about, I'm because I'm such a nerd, 345 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 1: but that also comes with like a lot of toxic 346 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 1: fan culture. And I was thinking about that the other day, 347 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: where I just thought, I feel like I could really 348 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: write something great in here, but I'm never going to 349 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: do it because I don't want to have to deal 350 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: with all of this stuff that's expected of someone who 351 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: is writing in that world. And that means we're losing 352 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,120 Speaker 1: I mean, who knows, maybe I wouldn't write anything that great, 353 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: but we're losing people and art because of this whole 354 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: expectation and idea of artists. Really, and I'm always I'm 355 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 1: always impressed with artists who are able to have their 356 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: private lives um and are to separate it anyway, I 357 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: just spent for a long time, but it is something 358 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 1: that in our jobs, I do think about a lot um. 359 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: For me, I'm just thinking about her perspective and the 360 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: fact that she was the first black American woman to 361 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: sell that many and the expectations and the naysayers that 362 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: were probably on top of her, Like I cannot fathom 363 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: that idea that not only to cheach that a precedent 364 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: for herself as someone who did do these amazing things, 365 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: but then because people were wanting to see her fail, 366 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 1: they try to push back on her as well. Like, 367 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: I can't imagine the toll that it would take with 368 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: that type of lime light on you, especially if all 369 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,360 Speaker 1: you're trying to do is right. End of story. So 370 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: there's such a big difference between those who will be 371 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: on stage and acting and even those who do want 372 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: the light. Though to be famous, people typically don't know 373 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: what that means. Truly means that beings, not only do 374 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: you have people who love few, but that there's going 375 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: to be people who don't like you and want to 376 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: see you fail and therefore truly work against you. So 377 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: like all those things and to be a writer, an 378 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: intellectual who just wants to put things on books and 379 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 1: has a perspective of uh, fictionalized characters that she probably 380 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 1: loved and or hated at times but felt passionately about 381 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: to be scrutinized and then continually be like, well, it's 382 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: not at like the same the first thing, because there's 383 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: a standard that after it's released, it is owned by 384 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: the fans, like they have this kind of like odd 385 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 1: relationships to the character, so therefore they own it in 386 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: the type of way and therefore can judge it um. 387 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: And again this is like a whole different level because yeah, 388 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: there's the time is different. Could you imagine what would 389 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: have happened had there been social media at that point 390 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: in time any of those conversations of course, But I 391 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: do think about all of that, and it's layered perspective 392 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: for her as someone who's just just trying to find 393 00:22:57,720 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: her way, Like just even the context of her history 394 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: and family life is just literally just yeah, we just 395 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: do it because it's there, not because she has this 396 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: lofty goal of being famous or rich or any of that. 397 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,360 Speaker 1: It's just finding something that you love and doing it. 398 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: For me, Yeah, it's been weird to see the level 399 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: of criticism. I feel like, as being a woman in general, 400 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: that's obvious that it's going to be criticized for everything, 401 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 1: and then any mistake is going to be emboldened and 402 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: highlighted for everyone to read. Reminded, See you look at her, 403 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,159 Speaker 1: she she did this thing that we knew. She just 404 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 1: she was gonna trip Bobby any time now. Like it's 405 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: just it's such an odd place anyway. And yeah, the 406 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: whole perspective of again, ownership of of fictionalized characters. I 407 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: was created by someone. It's a whole different conversation. Yeah, 408 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: And I want to like the dissonance as well of 409 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 1: being a person who talks about things that we aren't 410 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: necessarily able to live in because of the expectations that 411 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: are placed upon us, because of who we have to 412 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 1: be in public, in the standards that we have to uphold, 413 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: Like we can talk about these feminist ideas of the 414 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: way we care for ourselves, the way we interact with 415 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: the public, the kind of agency that we have, the 416 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: kind of uh choices for control that we have, and 417 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: like be it will be so difficult to be able 418 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 1: to maintain those in public because of the expectations that 419 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: are placed on us. So that is I know that 420 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: is a very deep topic. And this is an aside 421 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: and the three's biography, but um, it is something that 422 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 1: she talked about and she was passionate about. So I 423 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,360 Speaker 1: feel like, because it's something that I think we all 424 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: have experience with that it could be helpful to talk 425 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: about it a little bit in context of her story. 426 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:57,880 Speaker 1: But um, but that's said, maybe we'll continue that another day. 427 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,479 Speaker 1: We'll get back to and p three story. So she 428 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: her daughter, Elizabeth and Petree, was born in nineteen forty nine, 429 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 1: and that same year she published her first children's book, 430 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: which was The Drug Store Cat. And she continued publishing 431 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 1: more essays, book reviews, doing speaking events, and she had 432 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: also been working on her third novel, The Narrows, which 433 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: was published in nineteen fifty three. That one revolves around 434 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: an interracial love affair and it was received pretty well. 435 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: So she joined the League of Women Voters and she 436 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: was elected to the Old Say Board of Education. Those 437 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: are some of the other things that she was involved 438 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 1: in in in terms of her social engagement. Um, and 439 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: she did get some heat for the things that she 440 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: was writing in her books. So a lot of her 441 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: inspiration for the work that she created was obviously how 442 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: she looked at the world around her through a lot 443 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: of her observation, particularly when she got to Harlem and 444 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:04,120 Speaker 1: the her observations of black people who lived in Harlem 445 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: and race relations and her consciousness that was growing through 446 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: her work. Um all show up through her activism, we're 447 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,640 Speaker 1: all showing up in her writing work as well. And 448 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: the National Organization for Decent Literature recommended her book The 449 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: Narrows for censorship, so she was involved in some of 450 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: like there. She got a little bit of heat for 451 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: the stuff that she was writing at the time. There 452 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: is some scholarship on her We're talking about how, um, 453 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: a lot of the novels at the time were moving 454 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: through a space where there was this idea of racelessness, 455 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: and that shows up in some of her work as well, 456 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: and also relating to the way that she was portraying 457 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: Harlem and how it was gritty and it was grimy 458 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: and this kind of sense of hopelessness, and a lot 459 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,199 Speaker 1: of people took fault with that. UM. But anyway, in 460 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: the night she spent I'm in Hollywood working as a 461 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 1: screenwriter on an adaptation. But that that film was never produced. 462 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,959 Speaker 1: Um her aunt who ran the family pharmacy. In nineteen 463 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: sixty seven she was injured and she took over individually 464 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: closed the shop, but the James Pharmacy is now listed 465 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: in the National Register of Historic Places. And she also 466 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: became visiting professor of English at the University of Hawaii 467 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,719 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy four for an academic year. In nineteen 468 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: seventy six she started publishing poems, so there she does 469 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 1: have some poetry in her collection, and she got Literature 470 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: Fellowship from the National Endowment for the Arts in nineteen 471 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: seventy eight. And as I said earlier, her work continued 472 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: throughout her life. She did get a bunch of honorary 473 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: degree like from Suffolk University, the University of Connecticut, Mount 474 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: Holyoke College, and Trinity College. And over the course of 475 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: her life she donated a lot of her materials to 476 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: places like the James Weldon Johnson Memorial Collection at Yale, 477 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: um Boston University, um Shaw University, Ratcliffe College was a 478 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:29,159 Speaker 1: place that some of Anna Luisi's James papers were donated to. 479 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: And there's a collection of a Petree papers um in 480 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: New York. So there is a lot of her archive 481 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: available to people at those places, and including things like 482 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: some of the personal and professional letters that she wrote 483 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: to people like artists and writers like Paul Brooks, Ruby D. Davis, 484 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: and Helen Hall. But she died in ninet and she's 485 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: buried in Old State brook Her daughter, her Elizabeth, has 486 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: written a lot about the family's history, including the family's 487 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: history before and Petrie was born. She talks about how 488 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: much her mother gave inaccurate information about her life, even 489 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: when it came to her birth date, which is uh 490 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: something that I think if you could listen to other 491 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: episodes of Female First and you've heard a little bit 492 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: about the birthdate miscommunications and purposeful uh, purposeful slights. She 493 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: gave no less than six birthdates. Um. And she did 494 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: things like this which you can see if you look 495 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: through her archives. She obscured dates, she removed pages, she 496 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: marked out names, and she really kind of controlled what 497 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: information was available to others. Um. So Yeah, but even 498 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: though she valued privacy, Elizabeth, her daughter, has written a 499 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: lot about the family and made some more of those 500 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: available to the public through UM libraries and research centers 501 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: and Farah dr Fara Jasmine Griffin has also written about 502 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: her and d is some of these works about her, 503 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: so you can go in um read some of her 504 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: work about and Putree as well. And I would also 505 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: just encourage everybody to go and read and Putree's writing 506 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: because obviously what we talked about earlier, that was she 507 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: had the struggle between you know and I am I 508 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: the writing and the personality element of it, and she 509 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: cared about her writing and that's what she wanted people 510 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: to read. So UM. But she has a lot of 511 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: short works as well, so some of her essays, UM, 512 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: if you're interested in those, more in the nonfiction writing 513 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: more than the fiction. But she also has short stories 514 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: and and her three novels. She talked about what you 515 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: need to do a book club. He's on, Yes, I 516 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: mean once again, another great story. And it's it's so 517 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: many times you bring something and we end up talking 518 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: about like these through lines that were still discussing, and 519 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: I was just thinking about the kind of controlling the 520 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: narrative and picking and choosing at different dates, and I 521 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: was trying to I was trying to figure out if 522 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: that could work today with our technology. But kind of 523 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: the right to a private life idea, Yeah, I think 524 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: we should we should come back and revisit that. Yah, 525 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: I got. I feel like we all have a lot 526 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 1: of thoughts about it. Yeah, that need to be. He's 527 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: now a lot more for me. My end, like I mean, 528 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: starts early, you know, because I mean I grew up 529 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: obviously the internet was a lot different. It was very 530 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: different when I was younger, but starting from a place 531 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 1: where the Internet existed and I spent a lot of 532 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: my life online and sharing things with people whose faces 533 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: I had never seen. Um, starting a life from that 534 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: point and then reaching this point now. Um, I think 535 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: is a lot of uh things that can come up 536 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 1: when it comes to privacy. So it's definitely something that 537 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: needs to be I need to think about a lot more. Yeah. Yeah, 538 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: and certainly in our at the age we're living in 539 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: where we all kind of know that our data is 540 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: getting collected. Um. Just seeing this through line and where 541 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: am Petree was and where we are now interesting to 542 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: think about, interesting to think about. Yeah, but yes, this 543 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for bringing this too as ease. 544 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: I definitely want to check out some of Petrie's work, um, 545 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 1: which I'm excited about. Yeah, I am too. So this 546 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: is one thing I will say. One quote because I 547 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: feel like I can't leave without saying a quote from 548 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: a Petrie since we did bring it up, and so 549 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: this is what one thing that she said. Continuous public exposure, 550 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: though it may make you a personality, can diminish you 551 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: as a person. To be a willing accomplice to the 552 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: evasion of your own privacy puts a low price on 553 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: its worth. The creative processes are or should be, essentially secret, 554 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: and although naked flesh is now an open commodity, the 555 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: naked spirit should have sanctuary. Yeah. Do you think she 556 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: would have been okay with the fact that her daughter 557 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: did release so much about her after her death. I 558 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: don't even want to speak to that because there are 559 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: people who are far greater scholars on her than I. 560 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: So I do know that her her daughter has talked 561 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: about it, you know, like, I don't know if she 562 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: would be okay with it. But at the end of 563 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: the day, she did release a lot of her own work, 564 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: give a lot of her own work. And there was 565 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: a point that, um, she said something along the line, 566 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 1: so if I when it was when she was talking 567 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,239 Speaker 1: about the photo copying of her work kind of how 568 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: she didn't really she donated her work to them, but 569 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: she didn't imagine or she couldn't fathom the way that 570 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: people would interact with them, that people would want to 571 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,959 Speaker 1: do things like photo copy them. And yeah, so I 572 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: think she she donated them. But then the afterlife of 573 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: that is a different story. You know, how can you 574 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:13,800 Speaker 1: think about me? He's Jeff Code, who has no relation 575 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: to her family talking to you and all these other 576 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: people who are listening to it about her stuff. I 577 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 1: feel like those kind of things feel hard to accept 578 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: or don't really feel that tangible when you're living. But 579 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: I really it's so few of us. I mean, I 580 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: think there's a conversation to be had about her archive 581 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: work as well, and the work that her family continued 582 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: to do after she passed and making it accessible to people, 583 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: but the work that she did herself when she was 584 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 1: alive and honoring her own legacy as she was creating it, 585 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: which I really respect and I love, And it's one 586 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: thing that I can pull something from um anyone can, 587 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 1: like you know, like you're writing it, damn it, I 588 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 1: mean something. And I know you are both writers, so 589 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a bigger significant in this conversation for you. 590 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 1: But I do I would say, yeah, celebrating someone's work 591 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 1: and accomplishments is a whole different level in making sure 592 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 1: that they do get their due. And I'm sure because 593 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: her daughter was I'm assuming again this is a lot 594 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: of assumption that was very proud of her, what her 595 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: mother did and the foundation she laid for other writers, 596 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: especially other black women writers. I'm sure that this was 597 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: out of celebration and love for her. But yeah, I 598 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: do have those questions at the back of behind, like, oh, 599 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: what about the drama? Yeah, and I think again future 600 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: episode you've come back on. But it's also like, you 601 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,919 Speaker 1: can't anticipate certain technologies, and the Internet was a big one, 602 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: and so I feel like now we're seeing actors having 603 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: to say you can't you can or cannot use my 604 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,839 Speaker 1: image to recreate a deep figure or whatever after they die, 605 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 1: Like there's some things you can't anticipate. Yeah, and you 606 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: can't you can't imagine what is going to happen in 607 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,359 Speaker 1: the future to your art now that's going to be impacted. Yeah, 608 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,320 Speaker 1: So I think there's a little bit of that going 609 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 1: on as well. The Internet really disrupted a lot of 610 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: things which was not available throughout my entire life. This 611 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: is how a normal Okay, well, clearly this is sparked 612 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: a conversation and we'll have to return to it. Thank 613 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 1: you so much for including that quote. I think it 614 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,879 Speaker 1: was lovely and very poignant. Well, as always, we love 615 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 1: having you here. I'm so grateful there were no cockroach 616 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: attacks that disrupted this recording. I was very nervous. But 617 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,720 Speaker 1: until next time, where can the good listeners find you? Ease? 618 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: I am online at ease Jeffcote dot com, so you 619 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: can find a lot of stuff on there. But in 620 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: terms of podcast, you can listen to me right here 621 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: in this very podcast and many many other episodes of 622 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: Female First in which you can hear about people who 623 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 1: had first in history, and on Twitter at ease Jeff 624 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 1: going on Instagram and not apologizing. Yes, so I so 625 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: funny to shout out those handles when you're like personal 626 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:08,239 Speaker 1: life respect, I know what's you allowed to put up 627 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 1: or what you want to put up. You can go 628 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: on Twitter, but you won't get anything from me, like 629 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: I'm not on there. You can go follow, but sorry, 630 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 1: it won't be that edifying for you. Because I love it. 631 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,320 Speaker 1: I love it um and you can find us good listeners. 632 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: You can email us at some video, mom stuff and 633 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: I Hurt Me dot com. You can find us on 634 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: Twitter at mom stuf podcast or on Instagram at stuff. 635 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 1: I Never told you. Thanks, it's always You're a superroducer, Christina. 636 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: Thank you, Christina, and thanks to you for listening Stuff 637 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 1: I Never told you. The protection of I Heart Radio 638 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: for podcast in my heart Radio, because if heart Radio 639 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,280 Speaker 1: app Apple Podcast or Radulus into your favorite shows