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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keane Jay Lee.

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Speaker 1: We bring you insight from the best in economics, finance, investment,

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Speaker 1: and international relations. Find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot Com, and of course on the Bloomberg Pop

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Speaker 1: to All is with us. New beIN asset management chief

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Speaker 1: Equity Strategistic joins us on the phone. Good morning to Bob. Morning.

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Speaker 1: Is it a question of five or fifty a month?

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Speaker 1: And Bob, I don't think so. We're gonna need to

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Speaker 1: see a lot of weakness to get the fifty back

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Speaker 1: on the table. I think the job's number at the

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Speaker 1: beginning of the months told us, you know, the economy

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Speaker 1: is fine. Um, so I think it's twenty five, and

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Speaker 1: the debate should be what happens thereafter. The chairman was

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Speaker 1: asked directly about that job's report on whether it changes

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Speaker 1: anything for you him, and he answered quite directly to

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Speaker 1: Bob that it changes absolutely nothing. The strike that is no.

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Speaker 1: I think if you came into this a way that

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Speaker 1: the chairman was uncomfortable with the outlook, and ask yourself

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Speaker 1: whether the risks around the outlook of diminished in the

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Speaker 1: last couple of weeks. The answer to that very simple question, Bob,

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Speaker 1: was no. In yesterday's testimony, do you have any outstanding

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Speaker 1: questions today? No, I I agree with what you said

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Speaker 1: a few minutes ago. Day two is more more of beyond. Look,

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Speaker 1: there's the inside the US. Things are going really well.

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Speaker 1: The problems are a bit with manufacturing and trade and

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Speaker 1: all this associated with that, and so we're you know,

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Speaker 1: when you expect an economy to grow about two there's

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Speaker 1: always some puts and takes. Last year, remember we grew

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Speaker 1: three percent, so it was mostly good news. Now it's

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Speaker 1: a little bit more mixed, and we're starting to see

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Speaker 1: that with corporate re releases for second quarter earnings. There

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Speaker 1: are more problems than been the last few quarters. In

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Speaker 1: the pre releases, notably, they've come again more on the manufacturing,

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Speaker 1: the trade side, The consumers scenes fine, and financial somewhere

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Speaker 1: in the middle. Bob, good morning. You know, making jokes

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Speaker 1: about being all cash and finally getting into the market,

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Speaker 1: But what is your conviction on a higher equity prices

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Speaker 1: from here? So this is the way I hedge it, Tom.

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Speaker 1: I think the path of least resistance is still up Comma.

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Speaker 1: But to think that central banks are gonna bail us

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Speaker 1: out if in fact, earnings growth is going to be

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Speaker 1: more flattish, I think is a tall order, So I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm a bit more cautious. I wouldn't chase them, recognizing

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Speaker 1: the more time to talk out the other side of

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Speaker 1: my mouth path to least's resistance still up. Look, if

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Speaker 1: you've got a ton of cash, you shouldn't have a

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Speaker 1: ton of cash because the economy is okay, and therefore

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Speaker 1: earnings are reasonably okay. I don't see big downside, but

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Speaker 1: I don't see big upside. Are predictions coming too? The

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Speaker 1: year were choppy and frustrating, but no recession now, to

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Speaker 1: be self critical, it's better been better than choppy and frustrating,

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Speaker 1: no question about it. And I don't see recession anytime soon.

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Speaker 1: But what do you do with a defensive call, and

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Speaker 1: I've got a one way flight or everybody's piling into

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Speaker 1: defenses in the equity market that all my radars up

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Speaker 1: on that, Well, okay, there there's where I'll be a contrarian.

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Speaker 1: I think to trim the defensive I'm gonna call him

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Speaker 1: expensive um doesn't need Ernie's growth. Um at the expense

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Speaker 1: of buying some things with a little bit of hair

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Speaker 1: on it. Call it the soft cyclicals. You don't have

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Speaker 1: to go to the deep metal benders. We need big

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Speaker 1: commodity price increases. But you there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: consumer cyclicals, are a lot of cyclicals. I think you're fine.

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Speaker 1: John Farrell wants to talk about the techli cyclicals with

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Speaker 1: a little hair on them. What are you trying to say?

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Speaker 1: What are you trying to say? So, Okay, let's let's

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Speaker 1: say value cyclicals versus high P cyclicals. Like like Cisco

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Speaker 1: Systems has been a good stock, there's more to go low.

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Speaker 1: It's still relatively low expectsions expectations stock. Compare that to

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Speaker 1: some of the stocks that have gone through the moon,

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Speaker 1: and maybe their fundamentals have been really great. But I'd

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Speaker 1: rather get that risk reward right rather than paying anything

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Speaker 1: for good news. Chuck Robbins entertain we've done a great

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Speaker 1: job over at Cisco over the last few years, Bob,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think you're along with that. Coll just

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Speaker 1: more broadly, even the team put out a note at

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Speaker 1: the start of the year and it's ten predictions for

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Speaker 1: the year ahead, and then you don't just bury it

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Speaker 1: for the next twelve months and forget about it. You

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Speaker 1: revisit it six months later, and you're revisiting it now.

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Speaker 1: Out of the ten things you're predicted at the start

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Speaker 1: of this year, Bob, what's been the most difficult to

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Speaker 1: get right? To get visibility on sector? Call has been

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Speaker 1: our most difficult. We thought, let me pick on our

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Speaker 1: things we've gotten wrong. We thought intrasensitive defensive stocks would

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Speaker 1: lag utilities and reats. That's not been the case obviously.

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Speaker 1: And while we said tech would do well, we also

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Speaker 1: sadly said healthcare would do well. Medicare for All drug

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Speaker 1: pricing concerns have gotten in the way, so that's been

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Speaker 1: a difficult call for us. Doll. We come in here

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Speaker 1: in the morning, and you know, I come in pretty

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Speaker 1: early and Farrell comes into about six fifty two to

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Speaker 1: get ready for seven, and both of us miss gold.

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Speaker 1: I mean gold. This morning, Folks is breaking out the

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Speaker 1: new eyes. Good morning, Dennis Garbon, Good morning. Jeff Curry

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Speaker 1: over at Golden Sex and others have been really strong

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Speaker 1: on gold. Bob Doll on gold, Now, is that a

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Speaker 1: Doll like investment. No, it's not. I I'm not a

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Speaker 1: gold player in the up or the down. My observation

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Speaker 1: is gold just gives us lessons, and I think the

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Speaker 1: lesson is, hey, guys, if the central banks keep flooding

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Speaker 1: the system like they are, inflation is never dead. I mean,

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Speaker 1: look at wage growth in the US. I had to

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Speaker 1: pick one little place. It's moving up slowly, but surely. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're over three percent. You're over your average

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Speaker 1: hourly earnings. Thankfully, we've got reasonable productivity, so it's not

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Speaker 1: hitting margins yet, but eventually that will be a problem.

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Speaker 1: And if it heads towards four percent, which it will

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Speaker 1: with unemployment stays under four defends not gonna like it.

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Speaker 1: Great briefing, Bob gol SMP three thousand. We both feel ancient.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much. With it be what we're gonna

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Speaker 1: do now. We do this with some guests, particularly people

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Speaker 1: with huge track record and skill. We're gonna do that

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Speaker 1: now with Christopher Krissanti Unveilua. But Chris, I want to

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Speaker 1: do mistakes and things to do best practices in investing.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with the obvious. You make a bet on

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Speaker 1: a company and it goes down ten percent? What do

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Speaker 1: you do when a stock doesn't work out? Tom? That's it.

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Speaker 1: That is the toughest question in the business. You've done

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Speaker 1: all your research, you spent months and talking to the company,

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Speaker 1: You placed your bet on the table, and all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, in the short term you're feeling stupid. What

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Speaker 1: we do? We actually have a ten percent rule. We

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Speaker 1: regroup the whole team. The guy who's doesn't who recommended

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Speaker 1: the stock, doesn't even get a vote on this, but

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Speaker 1: he explains what's happening. The rest of us vote whether

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Speaker 1: we should cut our losses or double down. This is often,

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Speaker 1: i'd say more often than not, we double down this.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, no, it's more like the guillotine. If the

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Speaker 1: stock goes up ten percent, right, what do you do?

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Speaker 1: I know my answer. My answer is the same as

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Speaker 1: Dennis Garbage. What do you do if the stock goes

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Speaker 1: up ten percent? We tend to be buyers and then

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Speaker 1: as well, all right, and this is anti Martin guilt.

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Speaker 1: Three good morning, Ed Thorpe up in Cambridge, and this

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Speaker 1: is what you do. Nobody knows. This goes up ten percent,

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Speaker 1: you go, yeah, you buy more. And and it's a

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Speaker 1: bunch of reasons. But we usually don't buy a whole

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Speaker 1: crapload at the beginning, and we can't wait wait, can

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Speaker 1: we say that on radio? Now it's too late, but

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Speaker 1: we buy half often to us, I thought it was taped.

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Speaker 1: We buy half a crapload and then we're off to

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Speaker 1: the races. If it's up ten percent, we feel encouraged.

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Speaker 1: Things are coming to For example, a great example just

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Speaker 1: happened in a half hour ago to the the airlines just

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Speaker 1: reported terrific earnest and and so that's something where we

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Speaker 1: have a half a position and we could easily add

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Speaker 1: to the star. Did you see did you just see

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Speaker 1: we're live? We're live with life on air on Blimberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: Chris is great to have you with us. Let's go

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Speaker 1: back to that committee. You will get round the table

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Speaker 1: and you vote, but the individual that recommended the stock

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Speaker 1: doesn't get a vote. How important is it to take

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Speaker 1: away the emotional attachment that the stock pick half? Well,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly that you put the question. He's he or

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Speaker 1: she is the person who has the information that we need,

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Speaker 1: but they're too close to it. They're they're they're too invested.

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Speaker 1: They don't want to have been seen as making a mistake,

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Speaker 1: so they're pounding the table usually to buy it. So

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Speaker 1: you know, we've had some tough conversations where we say

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Speaker 1: no, no no, it's time to cut our losses and go.

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Speaker 1: And it's just as you know, a good track record

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Speaker 1: isn't just picking stuff that goes up. It's getting rid

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Speaker 1: of those things that you're really going to hurt you.

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Speaker 1: Next question, management shock. I'm not going to mention the

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Speaker 1: company tragedy. The CEO dies Liuly in oh hair like

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Speaker 1: literally dies thumbs. Thing I ever did is it didn't

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Speaker 1: sell the stock. Right. What do you do when you

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Speaker 1: get executive shock within a core company that you own. Well,

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Speaker 1: the good thing about us is we do so much

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Speaker 1: research before we go in, so we generally know who's

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Speaker 1: invaluable and frankly who's expendable. So when that happens, we

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Speaker 1: have an opinion. It's generally a pretty well educated one

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Speaker 1: about what we should do. And we were really of

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Speaker 1: the belief that management matters, like it matters who's running Apple,

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Speaker 1: even though they have a great phone. John mentioned one

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Speaker 1: of your great stories abou how you were advantaged. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: So in are are Are we had a client who

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Speaker 1: unfortunately died. I don't know if it was in o'heranon,

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Speaker 1: but in January and we couldn't. The account was frozen.

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Speaker 1: We couldn't touch it for the entire year. That turned

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Speaker 1: out to be our best performing account that year, and

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Speaker 1: it's because everything was going up and we were getting

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Speaker 1: cautious and we were selling Cisco because it only tripled

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Speaker 1: and value in Microsoft and so. But nine neglect is

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Speaker 1: often the wisest, right, that's our big slogan. First, what's

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Speaker 1: what's the lesson? What's the parallel us now with an

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Speaker 1: equity market at an old time high and people start

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Speaker 1: to get nervous. Yeah, you know, Jonathan, we are not

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Speaker 1: seeing the valuations that scared us in We have a tailwind.

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Speaker 1: The FED is accommodative. We think corporate rings are going

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Speaker 1: to be fine. Delta is a great example. They're up

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Speaker 1: seven percent in revenue year on year. UM So, I

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Speaker 1: would say Warren Buffett had a great line. He said,

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Speaker 1: there are years where I would do my clients a

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Speaker 1: great service if I just went to the beach the

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Speaker 1: entire year, and the ninety eight was one of those.

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Speaker 1: This may be one of those. Of course, you never know.

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Speaker 1: The thing is you need to be sitting there and

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Speaker 1: things like Christmas Eve of two thousand eighteen, where there's

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Speaker 1: opportunities and you can put a whole lot of bets

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Speaker 1: on the table. This is great. I had a lawyer

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Speaker 1: once I paid just the one so much money that

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Speaker 1: he bought a grand Banks and he named benin neglect.

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Speaker 1: Christophers Santy, it's great to see you. Thank you very

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Speaker 1: much for your grassantic capital management. See really thoughtful stuff.

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Speaker 1: Tomp what the equity market three three thousand yesternight? You

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Speaker 1: don't come on, folks, it's Grassante's above SPX. What six

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Speaker 1: months trailing? Eight months trailing? You're trailing? You're how many

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Speaker 1: people walk in here they can say that seriously, it's

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Speaker 1: a huge respect. Christmasani, thank you so much. Eighteen stocks,

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Speaker 1: you know, value quality and all that. We don't send

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Speaker 1: out his research. Go to Mr Cassani to get their research.

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Speaker 1: As you choose, Lisa, you gotta bring in the next

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Speaker 1: guest because my neck hurts so bad from the whip

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Speaker 1: lash of the last twenty seven hours in interest rates.

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Speaker 1: It's just it's just I don't know anybody in a

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Speaker 1: bond managing position cannot lose money this week. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I just don't know how you do it. It's I

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Speaker 1: think that people are saying stay stay with longer term

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Speaker 1: perspectives joining us now. I'm so happy to say, Alicia Levine,

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Speaker 1: chief strategistic b in why Melon Investment Management, and we

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Speaker 1: take a look at longer term. I have to wonder,

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Speaker 1: do you fight what's going on right now, this sort

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Speaker 1: of flight to risk in a wake of expected rate

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Speaker 1: cuts or GF do you go do you go against

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Speaker 1: that or do you just dive right in with everybody else. Look,

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Speaker 1: you know, as we've said, you know, we feel we're

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Speaker 1: in the midst of a liquidity, you know, massive liquidity globally.

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Speaker 1: It's a sea of liquidity lifting all asset prices. And

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Speaker 1: it really reminds me of and the reason that it

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Speaker 1: does is because the fundamentals are good enough. Right, So

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Speaker 1: we're not looking at a two thousand and six two

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Speaker 1: thousand and seven where the real economic activity was falling

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Speaker 1: off a cliff. We're looking at a softening and therefore

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Speaker 1: this global liquidity is just lifting asset prices everywhere. Look

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Speaker 1: at European high yield, Look at the spreads there. The

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Speaker 1: ECB is going to be buying corporate bonds. Hard to

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Speaker 1: lose money that way. You two are too young. During

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Speaker 1: trust me, it was ugly there was some serious sweat

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Speaker 1: on the beach. Alicia, this real simple. As we lift

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Speaker 1: prices with this wall of money, are we lifting them

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Speaker 1: into a leverage condition like August? So I think the

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Speaker 1: conditions for bubbles are present in that if we don't

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Speaker 1: see a pickup in the real economy, we don't see

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Speaker 1: corporates being able to bring profits to the bottom line,

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Speaker 1: we don't see some de leveraging. If we don't see that,

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Speaker 1: then the the the the circumstances for a bubble are present,

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Speaker 1: but they're not there yet. Okay, where specifically, where's the

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Speaker 1: most vulnerable spot for bubbles? So the Fed's actions today

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Speaker 1: are going to support the riskiest parts of the market.

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Speaker 1: So you're talking about leverage finance, You're talking about the

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Speaker 1: leverage loan area, You're talking about the high yield area.

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Speaker 1: So that's going to support those areas the most because

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Speaker 1: companies can refinance at lower rates, so they're not at

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Speaker 1: risk as much. And so that's where I would see

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Speaker 1: the risk. But the difference today than ten years ago

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Speaker 1: during the global financial crisis is the risk on the

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Speaker 1: leverage loan side is now owned privately and not by

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Speaker 1: the banks. You don't get a systemic boomerang. Here's what

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Speaker 1: I'm struggling with. People have been raising concerns about the

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Speaker 1: leverage finance area for about eight years now, and people

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Speaker 1: have been concerned and those concerns have not come to

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Speaker 1: fruition again and again and again, and here we are,

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Speaker 1: and yes there has been a huge rally, but there's discretion.

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Speaker 1: You're seeing dispersion and returns among names that are winning

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Speaker 1: and those that are losing. What are you looking for

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Speaker 1: to say now is the time that we can call

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Speaker 1: this a bubble. It's dangerous, get out. But I think

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Speaker 1: if you look at the more um the sectors that

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Speaker 1: are most at risk, and we've just been talking offline

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Speaker 1: about retail, and retail really is the sector that's most

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Speaker 1: at risk here on the leverage side and still still

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Speaker 1: because you know, fundamental customer behavior has changed. And if

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Speaker 1: you look at a bad Bath and Beyond for instance,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is a company bad Bath and beyond it,

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Speaker 1: Bath and Beyond Um she audition. Tom just gave me

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Speaker 1: this thank I you know, look, I mean, here's a

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Speaker 1: company that clearly did not change its business model even

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Speaker 1: as the world around it changed. And there are plenty

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Speaker 1: of retail companies out there that in the sense of

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Speaker 1: walking zombies because of this global sea of liquidity and money.

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Speaker 1: Is this bond market a walking zombie? That's the arch question.

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Speaker 1: That's a great question. It's a great question. I'll come

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Speaker 1: up with something as good as bad now. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's it's not the Night of the Living Dead. But look,

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Speaker 1: a few and and corporates can cover their debts right now.

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Speaker 1: But the risk always was when you raise rates too

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Speaker 1: high and yields got too high, how in the world

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Speaker 1: was this going to be refinanced going down the road,

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Speaker 1: I'll say this, the corporate tax cut is no longer

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Speaker 1: talked talked about. This is continuing to provide cash flow

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Speaker 1: for all these corporates. On the investment grade side, you're fine, right,

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Speaker 1: I have to wonder going forward, how much do investors

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Speaker 1: have to lower their returns expectations in order not to

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Speaker 1: take excessive risk and get caught with their pants down

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Speaker 1: when the market does decline. You know, that's a great question.

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Speaker 1: I mean on the equity side right now, that it

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Speaker 1: seems to be that the market just it's levitating upward.

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Speaker 1: And the pain, the pain trade is the short right,

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Speaker 1: you know, because you were coming in short and you

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Speaker 1: were selling and going into cash. That's the pain trade.

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Speaker 1: So clearly expectations are removing higher. And the truth of

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Speaker 1: the matter is if you look at twelve months forward multiples,

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Speaker 1: yes they're high, but they're not crazy. I mean they're

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Speaker 1: fully valued, right so they're not excessively valued right now? Okay,

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Speaker 1: so sp X three thousand, What does b N y

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Speaker 1: melon do for someone with cash to deploy? What do

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Speaker 1: you do right now? So I think you have to

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Speaker 1: buy US equities? I mean, you know, I you have

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Speaker 1: to buy US equities. But you have to hedge. So

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Speaker 1: you have to hedge with with with fixed income, and

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Speaker 1: you have to hedge with different strategies. And you should

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Speaker 1: definitely be an alter natives right now. But you have

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Speaker 1: to buy equity, so you know, hard assets, real estate, gold,

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Speaker 1: I'm not a gold buck. I like real estate. I

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Speaker 1: like I'm a New Yorker born in bread. Bitcoin why not?

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Speaker 1: Bitcoin is being used as a head for the debasing

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Speaker 1: of currencies globally. And don't forget the word debasing comes

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Speaker 1: from the fact that you know, we were all on

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Speaker 1: the gold standard, and if you added you know, jump

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Speaker 1: to the base metal, you had less value. Can we

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Speaker 1: get a headline up B and Y Melon says we're

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Speaker 1: going to the bitcoin standard. Does that work? Please don't?

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Speaker 1: Alicia Levin, thank you so much for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Alicia Levin always a last two strategies investment management with

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Speaker 1: some real talk. We need to go because finally, the

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Speaker 1: weather here is actually lovely today in New York, but

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Speaker 1: it's more lovely in Sun Valley. Idoh. Our colleague Paul

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Speaker 1: Sweeney is at the Allen and Company's Scale event. Because

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Speaker 1: everyone is scaling up with a scale event. They're all arriving, Paul,

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Speaker 1: everybody looks exceptionally casual. They've all got their knapsacks on

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Speaker 1: their back. What's in the knapsacks? What's in the knapsack?

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Speaker 1: I think is you know a lot of I think

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Speaker 1: people are really starting to figure out, um, this technology

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Speaker 1: is really impacting the traditional media, communications, entertainment businesses. We've

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Speaker 1: seen it over the last you know, certainly dozen years

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Speaker 1: or so, but I think it's really coming home to

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Speaker 1: roosts for a lot of these companies as they see

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Speaker 1: you know, a T and T, a telecommunications company by

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Speaker 1: Time Warner Media Company, Disney doubling down. Technology companies such

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Speaker 1: as Facebook, UH and Google really becoming big players in

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Speaker 1: the in the media space. In fact, I booked the

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Speaker 1: media mogul John Malone about how media companies should interact

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Speaker 1: with technology companies such as Google and Facebook. Here's what

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Speaker 1: you had to say. They've changed the world and they're

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Speaker 1: the disruptors. Now we were disruptors and at our youth.

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Speaker 1: Now they're the disruptors. We have to figure out how

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Speaker 1: to position ourselves to adapt to the changing world that

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Speaker 1: they're changing. Uh, you're not going to fight them, so

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Speaker 1: you better you better accept them as a as a

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Speaker 1: fact and then adjust your physitioning. We're seeing a lot

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Speaker 1: of you know, come here to Sun Valley. It's it's

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Speaker 1: a mixture Tom and LEAs of some of the traditional

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Speaker 1: media companies, whether it's a newspaper company, a broadcaster, or

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Speaker 1: a cable network, custom of the new technology companies obviously, um,

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Speaker 1: you know the Google's and the Facebook of the world,

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Speaker 1: but also somebody comes that you really haven't really heard

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Speaker 1: of before, but you know, their new technolo ologies and

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Speaker 1: they're really starting to impact the way consumers consume entertainment

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Speaker 1: and communications in general. And I think you know, these

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Speaker 1: companies here, these CEOs are just trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: how it all works and how they need to adapt

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Speaker 1: their business models. So does adapting mean basically understanding that

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Speaker 1: everybody's cutting the cord and not relying on on this

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Speaker 1: sort of thirty second advertisement spot anymore? Is that the

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Speaker 1: is that? Is that what adapting means? Or does it

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Speaker 1: mean uh, something deeper about the way people uh sort

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Speaker 1: of cater Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. I think you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: At least it's certainly about that, the corp cutting thing.

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Speaker 1: It's really an issue that's been on the minds of

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Speaker 1: these companies for the last three or four years. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I think the most notable example of what

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Speaker 1: that means for these companies is Disney's acquisition of Century Fox.

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Speaker 1: They're saying, we just need to get bigger to get

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Speaker 1: more content so we can go direct to our consumers

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Speaker 1: with our content. Is there anybody there from Hawkins Indiana?

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure, Paul nobody cares about all this investment

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Speaker 1: mumbo jumbo. Aren't they all there looking for the next

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Speaker 1: script like Stranger Things? Um, it's you know, it's interesting.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of content creators here, you know, even

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Speaker 1: some of the all the studios you're here, Uh, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of creative people here, the people that you

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Speaker 1: know are coming up with all these great streaming services

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Speaker 1: and and so on, and all the big movie studios

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Speaker 1: are here as well, so you know there's gonna be

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Speaker 1: There's five hundred scripted television shows on television right now

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Speaker 1: versus about two d and fifty ten years ago. So

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Speaker 1: it's never been a better time to be in the

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Speaker 1: content creator. But but is the basic thrust of all

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Speaker 1: these fancy money people and the creative people gluing my

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Speaker 1: kids to the modern digital space? Is it all just

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Speaker 1: simply find the next Game of Thrones, find the next

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Speaker 1: Stranger Things. I think it's I think it's more about that.

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Speaker 1: That's that's It's always been a hit driven business. You're right,

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Speaker 1: it's always been a content driven business. But I think

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Speaker 1: the real question now is how do I deliver my

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Speaker 1: content to my consumers in a way that I can

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Speaker 1: maximize my revenue. Is because it used to just be

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Speaker 1: I would just rely upon Brian Roberts Comcast to pipe

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Speaker 1: all my content right into your your your cable box.

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Speaker 1: But that's not the game anymore. Now it's I have

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Speaker 1: to speak to you know, read hastings of Netflix. I

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Speaker 1: need to speak to some of these telecom companies as well,

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Speaker 1: so it's a whole different model. Here's what I'm struggling with.

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Speaker 1: What is a conversation going to shift from the very basic, oh,

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Speaker 1: people are consuming their media online to what Netflix has

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Speaker 1: actually gotten very good at, which is taking data who's watching, what,

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Speaker 1: what types of trends in plot lines actually appeal to people,

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Speaker 1: and then crafting plot lines around that. In other words,

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Speaker 1: having sort of an interactive experience with the user and

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Speaker 1: using data in new innovative ways to create content. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're exactly right. Netflix really changed the game by their

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Speaker 1: ability to have a direct relationship with their consumers, so

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Speaker 1: they knew exactly what you like, what are you watching? Uh,

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Speaker 1: and and then creating content around that. And that is

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Speaker 1: all about having that direct relationship with the consumer, so

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Speaker 1: you know, a me what your consumer is doing. And

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Speaker 1: that's what the big Bob buyker, the Walt Disney Company

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Speaker 1: is making with its Disney Plus streaming service. One final question,

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Speaker 1: if that's the case, how does traditional TV respond to

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Speaker 1: this besides showing the All Star Baseball game with what

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Speaker 1: appears to be very low ratings. I mean, how do

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Speaker 1: they compete with stranger Things, telling my offspring that Jim Hopper,

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Speaker 1: the chief of the Hawkins Police department's a bad guy. Exactly. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think the big media companies are trying to do

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Speaker 1: everything or trying to appeal to the broad audience. So

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Speaker 1: they're going to maintain them and that's dead, it's done well,

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Speaker 1: They're they're they're doing both. So you take a look

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Speaker 1: at the Walt Disney Company. They're maintaining the ABC broadcast

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Speaker 1: network to the people that want that content. Yet they're

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Speaker 1: also developing and putting most of their eggs in the

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Speaker 1: basket of Disney plus their streaming service to appeal to

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Speaker 1: the consumers that have already cut the cord or or

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Speaker 1: never really really been in the paid TV ecosystem and

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Speaker 1: trying to peel to everybody that way. Will it work? Um?

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Speaker 1: It remains to be seen. Paul, this has been Are

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Speaker 1: you having fun out there? What are you coming back

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Speaker 1: like the first week of August? Yeah, that's that's that's

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Speaker 1: that's okay with you guys. Yeah, it'll be good. Paul Sweeney,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much. More important interviews through the day

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Speaker 1: as well. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Subscribe and listen to interviews on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or

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Speaker 1: whichever podcast platform you prefer. I'm on Twitter at Tom

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Speaker 1: Keane before the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide.

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Speaker 1: I'm Bloomberg Radio