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Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language, along with references

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Speaker 1: to sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: Clara was a loaded gun that was probably going to

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Speaker 2: go off at somewhere at some point, but I think

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Speaker 2: that that neighbor really helped her pull the trigger.

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Speaker 3: The neighbor put her over the edge.

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Speaker 1: Former chorus girl Clara Phillips was furious with Alberta Meadows,

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Speaker 1: the woman who she suspected was sleeping with her husband Armor.

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Speaker 1: She lured Alberta up to Montecito Heights along with Clara's

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Speaker 1: good friend Peggy Caffey. Clara confronted Alberta in a terrible argument.

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Speaker 1: In a desolate turnoff from the main road. Clara pulled

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Speaker 1: out a hammer from underneath her cloak and raised it.

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Speaker 1: When Alberta Medows put her hand up, she screamed for

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Speaker 1: Peggy Caffey. It was in the early evening on Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: July twelfth, nineteen twenty two. Clara quickly hit Alberta on

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Speaker 1: the head with the hammer, knocking her hat off. Alberta screamed,

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Speaker 1: rabbed her head and stumbled backward. The hit hadn't been

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Speaker 1: hard enough to stun her, so she might have been

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Speaker 1: able to get away.

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Speaker 4: She didn't expect Clara to come at her with a

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Speaker 4: hammer or any kind of weapon, because if she had,

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Speaker 4: I think she would have tried to put up a fight.

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Speaker 4: But I didn't think that Berta was the fighting kind.

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Speaker 4: You know. She wasn't aggressive. She ran, Oh, she ran

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Speaker 4: because she was trying to get away from the hammer blows.

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Speaker 5: She managed to start to run with Clara hot on

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Speaker 5: her heels.

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Speaker 1: While Alberta ran down the road screaming. Peggy ran up

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Speaker 1: the road away from Clara as fast as she could.

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Speaker 1: Clara looked back at Peggy and yelled, damn you get

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Speaker 1: away or I'll kill you. Peggy was terrified. She scrambled

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Speaker 1: through the dirt and up the hill. She thought she

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Speaker 1: could hear Clara right behind her. Then she reached a

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Speaker 1: dead end and turned around. Clara hadn't followed her. She

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Speaker 1: had chased after Alberta down the hill. Alberta was running fast,

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Speaker 1: holding her bloody head and hoping to find someone to

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Speaker 1: help her. She was desperate. But then it happened, like

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Speaker 1: a scene from a bad horror film. Alberta Meadows broke

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Speaker 1: the heel of her shoe and then soon Clara was

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Speaker 1: standing in front of her once again. Alberta was exhausted

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Speaker 1: and crying. They were both panting and what would happen

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Speaker 1: next would earn Clara Phillips the nickname Tiger Woman. Peggy

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Speaker 1: stood at the top of the hill, nearly weeping. Alberta

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Speaker 1: begged for Peggy to save her. As Clara Phillips raised

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Speaker 1: the hammer once again, Alberta yelled, my God, save me,

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Speaker 1: help me, help me. Clara was furious. She started choking

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Speaker 1: Alberta and she screamed at Peggy, don't you interfere, Damn

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Speaker 1: you or I'll kill you. Then she hit Alberta with

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Speaker 1: the hammer again and again and again. Clara's great nephew,

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Speaker 1: Daniel Phillips says Peggy was in an impossible position.

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Speaker 4: Peggy was just as surprised as Alberta was when she used.

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Speaker 4: Clara basically threatened her and said, you know, leave me

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Speaker 4: alone or you'll get some of this.

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Speaker 1: Alberta Meadows struggled to her feet and ran for her life.

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Speaker 1: Her heel was broken and she tumbled down the rocky

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Speaker 1: slope and onto the dirt road. The sun glowed as

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Speaker 1: it sat over the ocean. Clara ran faster down the

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Speaker 1: hill and slid to a stop. She stood over Alberta

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Speaker 1: trying to catch her breath. She still had the hammer

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Speaker 1: in her hand. Peggy watched Clara wasn't a big woman.

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Speaker 1: She might have been able to run quickly, but Alberta

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Speaker 1: still had time to escape. Peggy's knees were weak and

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Speaker 1: she thought she might pass out. She watched Clara Phillips

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Speaker 1: bend down over Alberta meadows with the hammer in her hand.

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Speaker 1: Writer Joan Rinner says that newspapers would reprint these next

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Speaker 1: details for years Afterward.

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Speaker 5: She batters her to the ground. Alberta, who really didn't

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Speaker 5: know Peggy's looking at her, shutting, lady, help me, please

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Speaker 5: help me.

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Speaker 1: Peggy didn't move, she stayed quiet. Alberta blacked out while

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Speaker 1: Clara continued beating her over the head, over and over again.

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Speaker 1: Peggy watched the blood gush as the hammer flung it backward.

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Speaker 1: Peggy was terrified and there was nothing she could do.

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Speaker 4: She just stepped back from the assault. She saw that

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Speaker 4: she wasn't going to be able to stop them without

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Speaker 4: and getting herself harmed. After it was completed, you know,

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Speaker 4: she threw up.

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Speaker 1: Clara was in a fury. She was like an animal.

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Speaker 1: Attacking its prey.

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Speaker 5: You can see it was a massive head wound. There

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Speaker 5: was a lot of blood, and there was also brain

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Speaker 5: matter that had come out of her skull and into

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Speaker 5: the dirt. You got to remember how young she was,

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Speaker 5: twenty two, twenty three. No one in her short life

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Speaker 5: had enraged her that much.

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Speaker 1: Yet this seemed like a crime of passion, committed by

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Speaker 1: an unstable woman who just snapped. Except Clara had planned

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Speaker 1: it so well. She accomplished her goal, like what we

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Speaker 1: talked about before with psychopaths. She had eliminated her competition.

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Speaker 1: Alberta Meadows had lost her husband, the love of her life,

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Speaker 1: just a few months earlier, and now she was dead.

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Speaker 1: Then Clara Phillips did something that made her infamous, a

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Speaker 1: fixture and true crime history.

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Speaker 5: It's not clear to me if Clara thought that Alberta

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Speaker 5: was going to rise from the dead, but she rolled

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Speaker 5: this fifty pound boulder in Alberta chest.

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Speaker 1: That detail has been a big part of this story's lore.

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Speaker 1: Fifty pounds seems like a little too much for a

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Speaker 1: fairly petite woman to push over on top of a body,

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Speaker 1: but Clara was fueled by adrenaline and anger, and despite

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Speaker 1: other reports the boulder was just found on Alberta's arm.

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Speaker 1: There were also loads of boulders on the slope above

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Speaker 1: Alberta's body. One could have slid down the hill and

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Speaker 1: on top of her before she was discovered. Anyway, the

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Speaker 1: story of the boulder is one of the most enduring

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Speaker 1: descriptions from the tragedy of Alberta Meadows. And all of

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Speaker 1: this began with a rumor whispered into the ear of

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Speaker 1: an unstable person, And there doesn't seem to be any

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Speaker 1: concrete proof from anybody that they actually had.

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Speaker 4: It was all innuendo. Everything about the depth of that

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Speaker 4: relationship was lamorized by the press. It just became a

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Speaker 4: life of its own.

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Speaker 1: Peggy Caffy began to black out from fear or self

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Speaker 1: preservation or both. Then she heard wheels on the dirt

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Speaker 1: road near her. A horn was blaring. It was Clara,

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Speaker 1: driving the car she had just admired. She had taken

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Speaker 1: Alberta's new Ford Coop as well as her handbag. Clara

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Speaker 1: told Peggy get in, and of course Peggy did quickly.

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Speaker 5: Clara gets back in the car. Peggy is still just emotional,

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Speaker 5: in a mess over what she just witnessed. This is

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Speaker 5: not what she expected to have happened at all.

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Speaker 1: Peggy looked over at her friend. Clara was covered in blood.

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Speaker 1: Her dress, her hands, her face were all red. She

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Speaker 1: complained about a hurt finger. Peggy looked down the bloody

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Speaker 1: hammer lay in the car's floorboard at her feet. She

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Speaker 1: was terrified, but Clara seemed very very calm. She even smiled.

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Speaker 1: But then she turned quickly on Peggy.

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Speaker 4: Along the drive, she was saying to Peggy, don't say anything.

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Speaker 4: This could happen to you, and Peggy said, I don't

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Speaker 4: want to happen to me. Drove all the way to

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Speaker 4: Long Beach.

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Speaker 5: There was no Let's just keep it between us. She

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Speaker 5: made it clear that you're not going to cross me,

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Speaker 5: because if you do, there is a price to pay.

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Speaker 1: Clara coolly gave her friend a series of orders. She said,

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Speaker 1: let me have your gloves. Peggy handed her a pair

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Speaker 1: of long, white gloves from her purse to cover up

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Speaker 1: Clara's blood stained hands. Clara drove with one hand. As

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Speaker 1: she slid each one on, she told Peggy, wipe the

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Speaker 1: blood from my face. Peggy took out a white handkerchief

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Speaker 1: and patted Clara's cheeks. Clara took off several rings, which

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Speaker 1: were gummed up with blood that was now clotting. Clara

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Speaker 1: had taken them from the dead woman's body. Alberta's handbag

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Speaker 1: sat between them on the seat. Clara dropped the rings

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Speaker 1: inside the bag and turned to Peggy. She said, you

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Speaker 1: will remember that missus Meadows got these from my husband.

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Speaker 1: Peggy was quiet. I do wonder if Peggy knew this

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Speaker 1: was a lie. There's no evidence that Alberta and Armor

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Speaker 1: were having an affair. It's likely that when Armor was

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Speaker 1: confronting Clara about her own affair, he put Alberta Meadows

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Speaker 1: right in the middle of it, just to irritate Clara.

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Speaker 1: Alberta's death had been such a horrible ending for a

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Speaker 1: woman with so much promise, such a bright future. Clara

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Speaker 1: yelled at Peggy again to not tell anyone, even her husband.

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Speaker 1: Her friend nodded and agreed to be quiet.

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Speaker 5: She was just terrified. She didn't want to tell anyone anything.

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Speaker 1: As the pair drove toward Peggy's apartment in Long Beach,

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Speaker 1: Peggy wondered if Clara had a plan or a conscience.

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Speaker 1: Clara didn't seem excited or nervous. There was a fire

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Speaker 1: in her eyes. Peggy asked if she felt guilty. Clara

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Speaker 1: replied no, she would absolutely kill anyone who threatened her marriage.

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Speaker 1: Now this was clear. Doctor Craig Knew is an expert

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Speaker 1: in psychopathy, and he says that there's a common misconception

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Speaker 1: about psychopaths that they were born without fear. While Claire's

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Speaker 1: response seems to suggest that she's fearless, it might actually

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Speaker 1: be a good example of a theory in psychopathy called

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Speaker 1: the response modulation hypothesis.

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Speaker 6: The new research that's coming out that shows that psychopathic

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Speaker 6: individuals can upregulate emotion suggests that fear is there, but

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Speaker 6: it's when they become so singlely focused on a goal.

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Speaker 6: They don't feel fear because of an attentional disturbance. If

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Speaker 6: you take psychopathic individuals and you focus her attention to

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Speaker 6: fear based the types of threats, they do show fear.

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Speaker 1: So it's not that Clara Phillips was an extreme risk

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Speaker 1: taker or she feared being caught. Two of the traits

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Speaker 1: of psychopaths on Harsh checklist are over impulsiveness and extreme irresponsibility,

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Speaker 1: but those are not consistent characteristics in every situation for

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Speaker 1: a psychopath. They might be manipulative or violent, or both,

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Speaker 1: but only if it serves a specific, crucial goal that's

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Speaker 1: worth taking a risk.

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Speaker 6: So it may be a sort of a single mindedness.

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Speaker 6: The contempt, the spite that Clara felt for this other person,

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Speaker 6: which probably in my guests would beat, was her spite,

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Speaker 6: and her contempt was fueled by her inability to have children.

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Speaker 6: And this person was going to pay for a lot

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Speaker 6: of things, and not just the affair.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps Clara Phillips had finally had enough. She had a

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Speaker 1: failing marriage, a career in Hollywood that was sliding to

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Speaker 1: a stop, and no children. More than a decade of

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Speaker 1: violent outbursts had finally added up to this murder. Yet

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Speaker 1: she didn't seem worried, even though she had to have

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Speaker 1: known that she would be in trouble once she got home.

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Speaker 1: Someone would surely find Alberta's body, even if Peggy didn't

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Speaker 1: turn on her and go to the police. But none

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Speaker 1: of that seemed to matter to Clara.

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Speaker 6: It's not that they don't know the difference between right

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Speaker 6: and wrong, but they don't see the harm really in

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Speaker 6: harming individuals.

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Speaker 1: They lived by their own set of morals.

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Speaker 6: What I can tell, they live by their own set

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Speaker 6: of morals, and.

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Speaker 1: As odd as this sounds, Clara did have morals, they

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Speaker 1: were just particular to her. She was determined to write

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Speaker 1: a wrong to fix her marriage to Armor and now,

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Speaker 1: as she drove toward Peggy Caffey's apartment in Long Beach,

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Speaker 1: she issued her friend one last threat. She glanced over

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Speaker 1: at Peggy and remarked that her face looked pale. Peggy

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Speaker 1: was clearly afraid, and Clara was concerned about getting caught.

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Speaker 1: As Peggy climbed out from the car and stepped onto

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Speaker 1: the street, Clara whispered something to her just as the

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Speaker 1: door closed. She said, remember, don't tell your husband or

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Speaker 1: I'll kill you. Peggy stepped back a bit, then turned

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Speaker 1: and walked briskly to her apartment without saying a word.

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Speaker 1: She was petrified because of course Clara knew where she lived,

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Speaker 1: and now Peggy knew exactly what Clara Phillips was capable of.

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Speaker 1: Peggy Caffy opened the door of her apartment and found

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Speaker 1: her husband inside. It was nighttime now, and she tried

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Speaker 1: to hide her fear. She wanted to tell him everything,

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Speaker 1: despite his infidelity, He was the only person she trusted,

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Speaker 1: but she stopped herself for a very practical reason. Her

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Speaker 1: husband had a job interview the next day, and this

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Speaker 1: could upset him. No kidding, the description of her harrowing

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Speaker 1: night might upset anyone, particularly a husband already on edge

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Speaker 1: about an upgrade on his job. She should have called

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Speaker 1: the police immediately, but Peggy's own marriage was precarious right

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Speaker 1: now and she didn't want to chance it. So Peggy

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Speaker 1: Caffey stayed silent, just like she had about an hour before,

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Speaker 1: as her best friend beat a woman beyond recognition on

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Speaker 1: a desolate dirt road. This case would change so many lives.

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Speaker 1: A young victim's family would be forced to defend her

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Speaker 1: reputation in a courtroom filled with the air of misogyny.

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Speaker 1: An unlikely murderer would become a star and then later infamous.

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Speaker 1: The justice system would be shaken and law enforcement would

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Speaker 1: be challenged, and the Phillips family would never be the

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Speaker 1: same even nearly a century later, Janet Collins guides me

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Speaker 1: around her modest, one story home in Selenas, California.

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Speaker 7: Three point fifteen.

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Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am, and we try to set the time on

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Speaker 1: one of her many, many beautiful clocks. She was once

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Speaker 1: known as Janet Elizabeth Phillips until she got married. Her

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Speaker 1: parents raised her in this house. She's an icon here

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Speaker 1: in Selenas. Janet and her husband were involved with city

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Speaker 1: government for decades before he passed away several years ago.

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Speaker 1: She continued to work into her seventies, serving the city

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Speaker 1: that she loves.

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Speaker 7: Then I found physically I was kind of wearing out

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Speaker 7: a little bit, So that took its toll. You kind

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Speaker 7: of go a little bit downhill. And as the saying goes,

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Speaker 7: growing old ain't for sissies. So I can't agree with that. Yeah,

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Speaker 7: that's sort of where I am now. I'm adi ate.

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Speaker 1: Janet talked lovingly about her coworkers or her deceased husband,

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Speaker 1: her children, and her grandchildren, but one person she didn't

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Speaker 1: have good memories of was her uncle, Armor Phillips. Armor

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Speaker 1: was the brother of her father, Forrest Pierce Phillips. Janet

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Speaker 1: knew Armour when she was younger. She didn't think much

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Speaker 1: of him then, and she thinks even less of him now.

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Speaker 7: What about Armor, Oh, he's pathetic. I think he's a

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Speaker 7: sad situation. It's not a very nice thing to say,

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Speaker 7: but it was nothing very endearing about him. It would

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Speaker 7: make you very close to him.

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Speaker 1: Remember that this story is about the kind of family

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Speaker 1: loyalty that's mandatory, no matter the cost. Janet says her

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Speaker 1: family has always been private, and they've always kept secrets,

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Speaker 1: especially from each other.

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Speaker 7: What anybody knew in that family, they weren't going to

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Speaker 7: tell one another.

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Speaker 1: But doesn't that damage the fabric of a family?

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Speaker 7: He can't Phychoway analyze it. And they all knew.

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Speaker 1: The rumors spread within the Phillips family just like it

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Speaker 1: might with any other family. A bit of drama pops

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Speaker 1: up with someone his or her immediate family finds out

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Speaker 1: and then spreads the gossip to the extended family. Soon

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Speaker 1: everyone knows, and the facts are skewed. So some of

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Speaker 1: what Janet knows would be labeled hearsay in a courtroom.

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Speaker 7: I think the father, their father was very, very domineering,

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Speaker 7: very farmer's father. Yes, I heard, but I don't know

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Speaker 7: that for sure either.

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Speaker 4: I just.

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Speaker 7: Heard that a few things.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So this is what's going to be interesting.

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Speaker 2: When you say you heard, do you have like a source,

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Speaker 2: like an aunt who kind of gossiped.

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Speaker 7: James R. Mellon is the font of information if you

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Speaker 7: could ever get a hold of him.

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Speaker 1: James R. Mellon, better known as Jay, is one of

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Speaker 1: the heirs to the Melon fortune. He has judged Thomas

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Speaker 1: Mellon's great great grandson. The seventy eight year old has

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Speaker 1: had his own share of controversy. The US government accused

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Speaker 1: Jay of skirting income tax by claiming he had no

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Speaker 1: permanent residence. He called himself a tax protester. Forbes magazine

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Speaker 1: estimates that the melons are worth at least twelve billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: A few years ago, j Mellon called Janet. They had

293
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Speaker 1: never spoken before, and she was just one of many

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Speaker 1: descendants who had no claim on the family fortune. Jay

295
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,359
Speaker 1: wanted to work on the family tree and he needed

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Speaker 1: information from Janet and Daniel to complete it.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, and I need some names to your kids, and

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Speaker 7: so yeah, I gave him all that, and then I said,

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Speaker 7: and by the way, we found Armor, Oh you did? Yeah?

300
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Speaker 7: And he was married. He was married to Clara what.

301
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Speaker 1: As they talked, Janet started to learn more about her

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Speaker 1: distant cousin. There was clearly a divide between their worlds

303
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Speaker 1: because Janet was actually a little concerned about how much

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Speaker 1: their long distance phone call was costing.

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Speaker 7: Jay I said, oh my gosh, James this is costing

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Speaker 7: you a small fortune, not realizing that he wintered in Florida.

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Speaker 1: Janet's house is modest, but so were virtually all of

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Speaker 1: our houses. Compared to the Melon homes. There was a

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Speaker 1: definite split between the sides of the family that was

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Speaker 1: cemented generations ago. Can you simply explain the divide between

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Speaker 1: the Melons.

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Speaker 7: I believe it's because they were it was religion. I

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00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:11,399
Speaker 7: think they went split off and there were Southern Baptists

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Speaker 7: and they just moved on down South Ware to Pole Melons.

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Speaker 1: Janet and this house are also important to the story

316
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Speaker 1: because her uncle Armor used to come by the house.

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Speaker 1: It was a pit stop for him. He would chat

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Speaker 1: with his brother and sister in law and grin at

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Speaker 1: his young niece. He would show up at several really

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Speaker 1: key times in his life, and Janet remembers those visits vividly.

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Speaker 1: But more on that later. Now we're back to Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: July twelfth of nineteen twenty two, and Clara Phillips's life

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Speaker 1: has taken a bizarre turn. She had just dropped off

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Speaker 1: Peggy Caffey in Long Beach and she was driving back

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Speaker 1: to West Los Angeles to the home she was sharing

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Speaker 1: with Armor.

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Speaker 4: It made Clara feel good. She dropped off Peggy and

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Speaker 4: warned her not to say anything.

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Speaker 1: As she pulled Alberta's car into the driveway that evening,

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Speaker 1: it was nearly dark. Clara Phillips hopped out and walked

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Speaker 1: toward the door as Armor watched suspiciously from the window.

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Speaker 1: Whose car is that? Glenn Martin says, Armor was immediately alarmed,

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Speaker 1: and for a good reason.

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Speaker 8: Well, she arrives home in Alberta's car, and then she

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Speaker 8: told Armer she was going to cook him the best

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Speaker 8: meal that he'd ever had, and then she spoke of

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Speaker 8: having killed Alberta.

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Speaker 1: So there's absolutely no effort at.

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Speaker 2: Cover up on her heart.

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Speaker 8: No, she created a witness to her confession.

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Speaker 9: Basically, Peggy Caffy was there when Clara Phillips murdered Alberta Meadows,

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Speaker 9: and now she was lying in bed fretting over what

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Speaker 9: to do next.

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Speaker 1: Whatever she did, it would have to wait until after

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00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:08,359
Speaker 1: her husband's job interview the next morning. Clara was about

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Speaker 1: to tell her husband what happened. So now two people

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Speaker 1: aside from Clara would know about the murder of a

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Speaker 1: young widow. Writer Joan Renner explains what happened.

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Speaker 5: Next, Clara goes home and announces to Armor and she's

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Speaker 5: got blood. She still got blood on her clothing. She

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Speaker 5: announces to Armor, I'm so happy I've just killed the

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Speaker 5: one you love the best. I'm gonna cook you the

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Speaker 5: best dinner you ever had.

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Speaker 1: Daniel Phillips says it had to be one of the

355
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Speaker 1: wildest confessions ever.

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Speaker 4: It was almost like she completely disconnected from the event,

357
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Speaker 4: and she had blood all over Peggy's het. Her white

358
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Speaker 4: gloves were covered in blood from the hammer blows.

359
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Speaker 1: What is Armour's reaction when she comes home?

360
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Speaker 2: What's his emotion?

361
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:01,400
Speaker 7: Match?

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00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,679
Speaker 4: Probably shock. You don't see your wife coming through the

363
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 4: door looking like she's been in a boxing match with

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Speaker 4: a world champion for fifteen rounds. You know, she was

365
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Speaker 4: covered in blood, and she was in a very good mood.

366
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Speaker 1: Armor was stunned, obviously, and Clara was just so cheerful,

367
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Speaker 1: even elated. It was disturbing. Even though Clara had done

368
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 1: so many disturbing things in.

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Speaker 4: The past, and the fact that she had not gone

370
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,919
Speaker 4: to the trouble of changing clothes, she still looked like

371
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 4: she had been in a really bad fight. She came

372
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Speaker 4: and said, hey, look what I did now our marriage,

373
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Speaker 4: our life can continue, and let's go eat.

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Speaker 1: Clara Phillips showed absolutely no remorse, no empathy about murdering

375
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Speaker 1: Alberta Meadows. She had always acted callously toward victims of

376
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Speaker 1: her violence in the past, including Armor, but this was

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Speaker 1: so different.

378
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 4: She was saying, well, I'm just going to go the

379
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 4: police tomorrow and tell them all and everything will be fine.

380
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 4: She had no concept that this is murder. It was

381
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 4: a brutal murder, and they're not going to just say well,

382
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 4: thanks for coming by and telling us about this. It's

383
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 4: definitely a psychopathic response to what other people would be

384
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 4: able to say as a life changing experience.

385
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 1: Armer questioned her carefully, trying to stay calm. Clara was

386
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: clearly unstable as she flitted about the kitchen preparing a meal.

387
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:28,159
Speaker 1: He thought quickly as his panic grew. Clara's mother was

388
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Speaker 1: just in the next room. If she heard her daughter's voice,

389
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: she might appear, and then there would be a third witness.

390
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,880
Speaker 1: Armor needed to do something now.

391
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 4: He put two and two together real quick again. Armor

392
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 4: wasn't dumb. He was a good cond man. He knew

393
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Speaker 4: this is not good. I've got to get her out

394
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Speaker 4: of here, and he still had the loyalty of a

395
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 4: husband to do that, because if he didn't care, he

396
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 4: would have said, don't bother me.

397
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Speaker 2: What do you think was the mindset there?

398
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 8: I think Armer's mindset was probably focused on some self

399
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,920
Speaker 8: preservation there. It had to have run through his head

400
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 8: that he was at risk, and if in fact it

401
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 8: was true, and there was all kinds of evidence to

402
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,160
Speaker 8: support the fact that what she was telling him was true.

403
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 8: The car was there, the bloody gloves were there, I'm

404
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 8: certain he had some concerns for his own safety.

405
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 1: He ordered her to change her clothes and hide her

406
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 1: bloody gloves. He told her to pack a suitcase with

407
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,199
Speaker 1: clothes enough to get her through a long stay. But

408
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: first he had a plan for Alberta's Ford coup.

409
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 3: He had Clara drive a car out to a remote

410
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 3: area where they left it, and he followed her in

411
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 3: his car, and then they went and they spent the

412
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 3: night in a motel. They didn't want Clara's mother to

413
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 3: sense that anything was strange.

414
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: They had driven about thirty miles from La to Pomona

415
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 1: to abandon Alberta's car with the keys inside. After Clara

416
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: slid into the passenger seat of the car. Armer thought

417
00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:00,160
Speaker 1: he had to be calculating and maybe a bit devious.

418
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 1: He could run away with her and live out their

419
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 1: lives safely in another country, or he could send her

420
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: off on her own and continue his grifting schemes in LA.

421
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: It was a difficult choice, and there wasn't much time left.

422
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: Someone would surely find Alberta's body soon. As they drove

423
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: along the highway, Armor tossed the infamous hammer out the

424
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: window near a stream. He drove her to a hotel

425
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,959
Speaker 1: in La Going home wouldn't be smart. He told her

426
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: to just wait and rest. Then Armor walked through the

427
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: streets of Los Angeles just thinking. Finally he settled on

428
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: a plan. He returned to the hotel on Thursday morning

429
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,400
Speaker 1: and collected Clara. He told her that it was time

430
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 1: for her to go home to Texas. There was an

431
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,919
Speaker 1: eastbound train leaving soon. He would make sure she was comfortable.

432
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: She asked if he would come along, and he said

433
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,199
Speaker 1: he would come a bit later. In the meantime, she

434
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: had plenty of aunts and uncles to care for her.

435
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 5: If I were Armor, I might have done exactly what

436
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 5: he did. He got her together, put her on a train.

437
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 5: The plan that he said that he concocted. I don't

438
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 5: think he ever intended to go through with it, but

439
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 5: what he told her was that we're going to meet

440
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 5: and we're going to go to Mexico and we're going

441
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 5: to put this behind us and start our lives.

442
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 4: And knew he was trying to get her to l

443
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 4: Paso so she can get into Mexico. He wanted her

444
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 4: to be able to start off a new life.

445
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: He went to the ticket counter and handed the attendant

446
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 1: some money. Armer then handed Clara the ticket and kissed

447
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 1: her as she stepped on the train with her suitcase,

448
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 1: and soon Clara Phillips the killer had vanished. Armer was

449
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: hoping that he had more time to think that perhaps

450
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: Alberta would lay undiscovered for just a bit longer. Wishful thinking.

451
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: Missus Wurtz had driven up Montecito Drive around four forty

452
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 1: five that Wednesday. She enjoyed visiting with her father, who

453
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 1: lived at the top of the hill. Author Claudine Burnett

454
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 1: says she didn't see anything unusual on the way up.

455
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 3: She didn't see anything there and her father lived up

456
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 3: in one of the new housing tracks, and she went

457
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,360
Speaker 3: to get him. They came down at six o'clock, but.

458
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: As they rounded a bend in the road, missus Wurtz

459
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,199
Speaker 1: slammed on the brakes. She and her father jumped out

460
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: of the car.

461
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 3: They spotted the body, so things had happened within a

462
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 3: short period of time, and she called in the murder.

463
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: Alberta. Meadows had been brutalized. There were more than fifty

464
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: hammer marks on her head and face. A massive boulder

465
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: pinned her arm to the ground. There was so much

466
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 1: blood that it had soaked through her clothes. Superficial blood

467
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: vessels in the head are vulnerable to trauma. Your scalp

468
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: can bled quite a lot, even from a minor cut.

469
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: That was something I found out while I was researching

470
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: a nineteen thirty three case for American Sherlock. In that case,

471
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: a woman was found dead in a bathtub by her husband,

472
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: and there was blood on every wall, including the ceiling

473
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 1: and the floor. Police arrested her husband for beating her

474
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: to death with a lead pipe, but the forensic scientist

475
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: at the center of my book believed something different. So

476
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: as I was writing it, I was fascinated that a

477
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: victim could lose literally half of the blood in their

478
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: body from just one head wound. In our story, the

479
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: police arrived not long after missus Wurtz and her father

480
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: found Alberta. Glenn Martin explains how investigators in the nineteen

481
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: twenties would have approached the crime scene. What did the

482
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: officer see kind of when they get there. What's the

483
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: scene that they walk into.

484
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 8: They saw a blooded woman, which would have been rare

485
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 8: in that period of time, and the rarity would have

486
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 8: increased by the fact that it was on this barren

487
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 8: hill side away from the populated areas of the city of.

488
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: La Martin says that typically officers would have first checked

489
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: Alberta's vitals, though I imagine that wasn't necessary. She had

490
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: been butchered. She was so bloody that it was difficult

491
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: to see her face. They touched Alberta's body and it

492
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: was still warm. No one knew who she was. Detective

493
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: searched for identification in the dirt on the road and

494
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: in the weeds on the slope.

495
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 5: Nothing.

496
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: Clara had taken her handback. They squatted on the ground

497
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: searching for a weapon, and they found the wooden handle

498
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: of the claw hammer. Clara had the foresight to take

499
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: the head of the hammer with her. It was a

500
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 1: ghastly scene even for a veteran investigator, and police on

501
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: the hillside were already asking each other who did this.

502
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 5: It was just an appalling crime. If you were a

503
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 5: cop and you rolled up on the scene and you

504
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 5: saw this, you would not for a moment think that

505
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 5: a woman could have committed this crime.

506
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: They examined Alberta's body, hoping for clues that might point

507
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: to a motive.

508
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 5: It looks like a sex crime because she has just

509
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 5: beaten and battered, and her skirt is pulled up and

510
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 5: her legs are kind of spread.

511
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 7: Is that how she fell?

512
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 5: I don't know. I wouldn't have put it past Clara

513
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 5: to pose her just a little bit, to show her disdain.

514
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 5: This is the woman she thought was stealing her husband

515
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 5: from her. She had nothing but contempt for her, clearly

516
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,479
Speaker 5: enough hatred for her to murder her in cold blood.

517
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: They wouldn't be able to examine the body for sexual

518
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: assault for several hours, but of course that wasn't what happened.

519
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: It takes more time than you think to collect evidence

520
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: and analyze a crime scene. Police in the nineteen twenties

521
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: didn't have crime scene investigators, just officers who hopefully had

522
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 1: experience and a love of recording details. Glenn Martin says

523
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: that investigators in the early twentieth century had to rely

524
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: on statistics, even in cases that seemed so abnormal like

525
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: this one.

526
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 8: For us, the nineteen twenties was the most violent decade

527
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 8: in our history. We lost thirty three officers in that decade,

528
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 8: which is about fifteen percent of what we've lost in

529
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 8: our recorded history. It was a horribly violent time for

530
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 8: law enforcement. Vast majority of homicides are born out of

531
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 8: relationship issues. So who is it that she's got a

532
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 8: relationship with. If not that, you start looking at coworkers,

533
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 8: If not that, you start looking at as she involved

534
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 8: in some kind of criminal enterprise.

535
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 3: These gentlemen of the night would come and they would

536
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 3: steal illegal liquor from these importers. There were a lot

537
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 3: of murders, bodies that were found, their identities never known.

538
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 3: That was what was going on in the early nineteen

539
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 3: twenties with prohibition.

540
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,239
Speaker 1: But without being able to properly identify her body, it

541
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: was nearly impossible to determine a motive. Martin says that

542
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: one thing was very clear to the police on Motacito

543
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: Drive in nineteen twenty two.

544
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 8: That level of violence typically speaks to a message crime.

545
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 8: Somebody is sending a message to the victim, the victim's family,

546
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 8: victim's colleague, business partner, A psychotic woman, a jealous woman

547
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 8: is an option. But again, as you work through the checklist,

548
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 8: it's not near the top of the list of options.

549
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 7: Why is that you're.

550
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 8: Dealing with probability? You look at you know, even at

551
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 8: that point, murder had been studied for many years and

552
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 8: patterns emerge as to who commits these types of crimes,

553
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 8: and that's just not near the top of the list

554
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 8: of people that we know would engage in that type

555
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 8: of crime.

556
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: But psychopathy is so interesting when you're studying personality disorders.

557
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,719
Speaker 1: Many of the psychopaths who have participated in research are

558
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: violent criminals. They're easy for experts to access because they're

559
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: also in prison. Those psychopaths make up roughly one percent

560
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: of the general male adult population. They make up between

561
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: fifteen and twenty five percent of the males incarcerated in America.

562
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:12,239
Speaker 1: Psychopaths are fifteen to twenty five times more likely to

563
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: commit crimes. So some psychopaths are calculating and manipulative. Most

564
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: often that's associated with women with psychopathy, and some psychopaths

565
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: are violent, like rage killers, some are more methodical, like

566
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: serial killers, and sometimes they're both. Like Clara Phillips. Glenn

567
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: Martin says that she didn't just want to eliminate her competition,

568
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: she wanted to destroy her.

569
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 8: Given what went on there, there were certainly easier ways

570
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 8: for Clara to commit that murder.

571
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: While police worked to sort out who this dead woman was,

572
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: Clara sat on a train heading toward Arizona, and Armor

573
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: Phillips seemed to be in the clear. His wife was

574
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: going to Texas, where she could likely stay unidentified. He

575
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: could decide later if he wanted to reunite with her.

576
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: But something was nagging at him. It wasn't quite guilt,

577
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 1: or maybe it was.

578
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 3: At this time, he started to get second thoughts.

579
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 1: His uneasiness turned to fear and more panic. His wife

580
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: could be his downfall. Even if she's back in Texas.

581
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 1: Her erratic behavior was sure to kick off again. It

582
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: always had. She was so unpredictable. She might tell everyone

583
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: what she did because she actually seemed proud of it.

584
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 4: He said, wait a minute, this gets me in trouble.

585
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 4: This is obstruction of justice, aiding and a betting, all

586
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 4: this kind of stuff, and he was smart enough to realize,

587
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,479
Speaker 4: I've got enough problems in my life.

588
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 6: I don't need this.

589
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 4: He added to it, because I'll go to jail and

590
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 4: I can't get out of this one. It was reactive.

591
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 1: He fretted about it more and more. He told Clara

592
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,959
Speaker 1: that they would start a new life together. But Joan

593
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: Renner doesn't think that that was ever his intention.

594
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 5: No, I don't think so, because what he really did

595
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 5: do when she was on that train was go to

596
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 5: his attorney and say, I don't know what to do.

597
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 6: What do I do?

598
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 5: The attorney wisely advised him. He said, look, I'll accompany you,

599
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,720
Speaker 5: but we got to go see the DA. You can't

600
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 5: sit on this. It's not going to end well for

601
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 5: you if you do. They went to see the district

602
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 5: attorney and Armor told the story, said it was his wife.

603
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 4: He went to the lapd and sat down, and, following

604
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 4: his attorney's advice, he told them everything, which was to

605
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 4: his credit, and I think part of it was self preservation,

606
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 4: but he also realized something might happen to her and

607
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 4: she might get killed resisting arrest. You know or get

608
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:44,399
Speaker 4: into worse trouble. So I think for his overall way

609
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 4: of looking at things, I'm her husband, I could be

610
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 4: negatively impacted by this. I'm going to go ahead and

611
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 4: follow my attorney's advice and tell the truth.

612
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: Clara Phillips stare about the window of the train bound

613
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,399
Speaker 1: for Texas. She closed the curtains to her private door.

614
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: She glanced at the depot down the tracks. It was Tucson, Arizona.

615
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: There would be a brief stop and then onto al Paso.

616
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: She might just get away with it, but perhaps she

617
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: didn't care. She suspected that Alberta's body might not be

618
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: found for a while. Clara was ready to start a

619
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: new life with armor, away from flirting women and shifty schemes.

620
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,439
Speaker 1: Clara looked forward to Texas because there were so many

621
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: possibilities for them there. What happened in California was in

622
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: the past.

623
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 4: You know. Alberta was history as far as Clara was concerned.

624
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 4: And so the police, being the police, they realized this

625
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:51,720
Speaker 4: is going to hit all the papers, and it did.

626
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 4: Just the fact that, even to this day, almost one

627
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 4: hundred years later, there are newspaper articles that you can

628
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 4: go online and Google about this gives you an indication

629
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 4: on how this was different from any other criminal act

630
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:06,760
Speaker 4: of the time.

631
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,959
Speaker 7: So he sent you this, Yes he did.

632
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: I'm back at the house of Janet Collins. Armor's niece

633
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: j Mellen sent her a very large amount of newspapers

634
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: about Clara. I got a few of them out and

635
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 1: asked her to read some headlines.

636
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 7: Okay, police check trail of dead girl and phillips one

637
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 7: night before killing. Police seeking to find where accused woman's

638
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 7: husband and victim were.

639
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 1: On the next episode of tenfold more Wicked?

640
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 2: Is this someone in.

641
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: Her right mind who would do this in front of

642
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: a witness and then leave the witness living.

643
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 8: I don't think there's any doubt about her being in

644
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 8: her right mind. She's very deliberate about what she does.

645
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:00,919
Speaker 8: She's very determined what she does.

646
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 3: Armor could do no wrong in her mind. So the

647
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 3: only one left was Peggy, and that was the one

648
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 3: that she claimed she would go after.

649
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: Do you think she might have planned this that extensively?

650
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 4: She didn't miss much. Everything that she did. There was

651
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 4: both psychopathic approach. There's also a logical, thought out approach.

652
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: My new book All That Is Wicked is available for

653
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: pre order now in hardback and ebooks. More information on

654
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: the audiobook later. All That Is Wicked is based on

655
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: our first season of tenfold More Wicked. You might think

656
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Speaker 1: you know the whole story of killer Edward Ruloff's crimes,

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Speaker 1: but there's so much more. My book American Sherlock is

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Speaker 1: also available. This has been an exactly right tenfold More

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Speaker 1: Media Production producers Jason Whaling, Alexis Mrosi and Laura Sobole,

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Speaker 1: sound designer Eric Friend, composer Curtis Heath, artwork Nick Toga.

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Speaker 1: Executive producers are Georgia Hardstark, Karen Kilgarriff and Danielle Kramer.

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Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at tenfold More Wicked

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Speaker 1: and on Twitter at tenfold More. And if you know

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Speaker 1: of a historical true crime that could use some attention,

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Speaker 1: email us at info at tenfoldmoremedia dot com. Subscribe now

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Speaker 1: on Amazon Music, Stitcher, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you like

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Speaker 1: to listen.