1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:37,276 Speaker 1: Pushkin. When you hear the word nostalgia, where do your 2 00:00:37,316 --> 00:00:41,276 Speaker 1: thoughts go? Oh boy? You know it gets triggered, you know, 3 00:00:41,396 --> 00:00:47,276 Speaker 1: usually by music or a smell like hot air and pines. 4 00:00:48,236 --> 00:00:50,636 Speaker 1: That combination and then if you throw in a little 5 00:00:50,636 --> 00:00:53,756 Speaker 1: bit of salt water reminds me of the very first 6 00:00:53,796 --> 00:00:58,396 Speaker 1: time I ever saw California in nineteen seventy six, when 7 00:00:58,396 --> 00:01:00,836 Speaker 1: I first set foot out here and started my journey 8 00:01:00,836 --> 00:01:02,836 Speaker 1: to where I am today. So that that really gets 9 00:01:02,836 --> 00:01:06,076 Speaker 1: me nostalgia. You're listening to one of the most surreal 10 00:01:06,196 --> 00:01:09,796 Speaker 1: conversations of my life. I'm talking about nostala with the 11 00:01:09,836 --> 00:01:14,556 Speaker 1: actor who personifies some of my fondest eighties memories, Roblow. 12 00:01:15,316 --> 00:01:17,676 Speaker 1: If you're a child of the eighties like me, Rob 13 00:01:17,836 --> 00:01:20,636 Speaker 1: is an icon. He was part of pretty much everything 14 00:01:20,676 --> 00:01:23,516 Speaker 1: I'm embarrassed to love about that decade. He was an 15 00:01:23,516 --> 00:01:27,316 Speaker 1: ABC after school specials. He started in classic eighties movies 16 00:01:27,356 --> 00:01:30,436 Speaker 1: like Saint, Almost Fire and The Outsiders. He was a 17 00:01:30,476 --> 00:01:33,156 Speaker 1: member of the infamous Brat Pack, who was on the 18 00:01:33,196 --> 00:01:37,036 Speaker 1: cover of Teenbeat magazine week after week. He dated all 19 00:01:37,116 --> 00:01:40,036 Speaker 1: my Team girl idols, from Demi Moore to Winona Ryder. 20 00:01:40,596 --> 00:01:44,076 Speaker 1: He played the saxophone or at least I thought he did. 21 00:01:44,636 --> 00:01:46,356 Speaker 1: Do you actually play the sacks or was that just 22 00:01:46,436 --> 00:01:48,556 Speaker 1: for the movie. Let me tell you something, I am 23 00:01:48,676 --> 00:01:53,476 Speaker 1: a longtime actor. I can fake do almost anything. I 24 00:01:53,516 --> 00:01:57,636 Speaker 1: can fake shoot a gun, I can fake repel, I 25 00:01:57,636 --> 00:02:01,756 Speaker 1: can fake play the saxophone like no other and I 26 00:02:01,796 --> 00:02:04,916 Speaker 1: have fooled many a person with it. And let's not 27 00:02:04,996 --> 00:02:07,796 Speaker 1: even get started on his hair. I used more hair 28 00:02:07,876 --> 00:02:12,036 Speaker 1: Moose than any human being should ever use. All this 29 00:02:12,076 --> 00:02:13,916 Speaker 1: goes to say that even though I was trying to 30 00:02:13,956 --> 00:02:17,436 Speaker 1: be my smoothest professional podcast Yale professor self when I 31 00:02:17,516 --> 00:02:20,116 Speaker 1: chatted with Rob, I was finding it really hard to 32 00:02:20,116 --> 00:02:23,476 Speaker 1: hold it together. When the Carpenters come on the radio 33 00:02:23,716 --> 00:02:28,836 Speaker 1: and you're like immediately next to your grandpa co driving 34 00:02:28,956 --> 00:02:34,916 Speaker 1: his station wagon and you're nine or eleven years old, 35 00:02:34,476 --> 00:02:40,196 Speaker 1: it's awesome, it's magic. You're in a time machine. You're 36 00:02:40,236 --> 00:02:42,836 Speaker 1: literally in a time machine. But I love the time 37 00:02:42,836 --> 00:02:45,876 Speaker 1: machine point because you know, in some sense, you've created 38 00:02:45,956 --> 00:02:48,996 Speaker 1: that time machine for other people, you know, even for me, 39 00:02:49,356 --> 00:02:51,596 Speaker 1: Like just talking with you on the zoom call, I 40 00:02:51,716 --> 00:02:53,436 Speaker 1: hear your voice, and I hear certain ways that you 41 00:02:53,516 --> 00:02:55,716 Speaker 1: express things, in certain parts of your smile, and I'm 42 00:02:55,756 --> 00:02:58,396 Speaker 1: taking back to you know, movies I watched in grade 43 00:02:58,436 --> 00:03:01,516 Speaker 1: school and with friends and fun times in college. And 44 00:03:01,676 --> 00:03:03,156 Speaker 1: you know, what does it feel like to be creating 45 00:03:03,156 --> 00:03:06,076 Speaker 1: the time machine for other people? That is amazing. That 46 00:03:06,116 --> 00:03:09,436 Speaker 1: makes me feel so good. It really does, because I 47 00:03:09,476 --> 00:03:11,556 Speaker 1: can put the shoe on the other foot so easily, 48 00:03:12,076 --> 00:03:14,636 Speaker 1: you know, when I meet my heroes or whatever and go, hey, man, 49 00:03:14,796 --> 00:03:17,036 Speaker 1: what that song you wrote? I played it at my 50 00:03:17,076 --> 00:03:22,156 Speaker 1: wedding to me hearing feedback like that. At the end 51 00:03:22,196 --> 00:03:24,756 Speaker 1: of the day, it's the real reason I think that 52 00:03:25,476 --> 00:03:28,476 Speaker 1: I became an actor and got into this business was 53 00:03:28,516 --> 00:03:33,516 Speaker 1: to move people and create memories for them, because memories 54 00:03:33,516 --> 00:03:38,796 Speaker 1: are all you got. That's all you got. Rob is 55 00:03:38,916 --> 00:03:41,036 Speaker 1: right here. When we look back at our lives, our 56 00:03:41,076 --> 00:03:44,276 Speaker 1: memories are all we've got, and reliving all those nostalgic 57 00:03:44,316 --> 00:03:48,276 Speaker 1: moments often feels really fun. But nostalgia can also cause pain. 58 00:03:48,796 --> 00:03:52,356 Speaker 1: Research shows that if we're not careful, our happiest memories 59 00:03:52,396 --> 00:03:54,436 Speaker 1: have a way of messing with our future well being, 60 00:03:54,916 --> 00:03:58,796 Speaker 1: making us downplay bad experiences or totally misremember the past, 61 00:03:59,236 --> 00:04:01,956 Speaker 1: which can set us up for some potentially damaging choices. 62 00:04:02,716 --> 00:04:05,796 Speaker 1: So how can we experience the benefits of nostalgia in 63 00:04:05,836 --> 00:04:08,516 Speaker 1: a way that doesn't hurt our happiness. How can we 64 00:04:08,516 --> 00:04:11,316 Speaker 1: relive our fond past memories in a way that doesn't 65 00:04:11,396 --> 00:04:21,316 Speaker 1: hurt our future selves. Our minds are constantly telling us 66 00:04:21,356 --> 00:04:23,316 Speaker 1: what to do to be happy. But what if our 67 00:04:23,316 --> 00:04:26,036 Speaker 1: minds are wrong? What if our minds are lying to us, 68 00:04:26,236 --> 00:04:28,516 Speaker 1: leading us away from what will really make us happy. 69 00:04:29,076 --> 00:04:31,316 Speaker 1: The good news is that understanding the science of the 70 00:04:31,356 --> 00:04:33,676 Speaker 1: mind can point us all back in the right direction. 71 00:04:34,116 --> 00:04:37,076 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Happiness Lap with doctor Laurie santos 72 00:04:45,716 --> 00:04:49,236 Speaker 1: So full disclosure. I am a nostalgia junkie. When I 73 00:04:49,276 --> 00:04:51,556 Speaker 1: have a tough day at work, I rewatch old movies 74 00:04:51,676 --> 00:04:53,876 Speaker 1: or play the classic songs that I loved in high school. 75 00:04:54,356 --> 00:04:56,676 Speaker 1: So you can imagine my total glee when I learned 76 00:04:56,676 --> 00:04:58,956 Speaker 1: that I share a fondness for all things old school 77 00:04:59,036 --> 00:05:02,876 Speaker 1: with my eighties Heartthrob Rob Low. I love nostalgia. I 78 00:05:02,916 --> 00:05:05,716 Speaker 1: love that I'm on this podcast right now because I'm 79 00:05:05,796 --> 00:05:08,196 Speaker 1: very big on it. The science shows that Rob and 80 00:05:08,236 --> 00:05:11,996 Speaker 1: I are not alone here. Nostalgia is an incredibly common experience. 81 00:05:12,396 --> 00:05:14,996 Speaker 1: In fact, one study found that around eighty percent of 82 00:05:15,036 --> 00:05:18,756 Speaker 1: participants reported feeling nostalgic at least once a week. If 83 00:05:18,756 --> 00:05:20,316 Speaker 1: you were to look over my shoulder at night when 84 00:05:20,316 --> 00:05:25,156 Speaker 1: I'm going down my YouTube wormhole, It's all nostalgia. It's 85 00:05:25,196 --> 00:05:30,116 Speaker 1: all history, nostalgia related behind the scenes of seventies music, 86 00:05:31,356 --> 00:05:34,796 Speaker 1: all of that stuff. Like me, Rob loves thinking back 87 00:05:34,836 --> 00:05:37,196 Speaker 1: to the songs of his youth and the concerts he 88 00:05:37,276 --> 00:05:39,796 Speaker 1: enjoyed when he was young. For him, a big one 89 00:05:39,876 --> 00:05:42,996 Speaker 1: was seeing his idol Bruce Springsteen live for the first time. 90 00:05:43,876 --> 00:05:46,396 Speaker 1: One of the things I remember that crazy time was 91 00:05:46,476 --> 00:05:49,356 Speaker 1: going to see him at Giants Stadium and it's the 92 00:05:49,436 --> 00:05:53,836 Speaker 1: Born in the USA tour. Talk about nostalgia, but Rob's 93 00:05:53,876 --> 00:05:56,836 Speaker 1: concert memories are also a bit different than many of ours. 94 00:05:57,476 --> 00:06:01,396 Speaker 1: Stadium's full. It's just before showtime and I walk in 95 00:06:01,436 --> 00:06:06,876 Speaker 1: and people start noticing and saying hello and running an autograph, 96 00:06:06,916 --> 00:06:10,396 Speaker 1: and the next thing I know, the entire stadium was 97 00:06:10,516 --> 00:06:16,636 Speaker 1: chanting my name. I get really like embarrassed. But the 98 00:06:16,636 --> 00:06:18,916 Speaker 1: good news is that led the Springsteen people to get 99 00:06:18,956 --> 00:06:21,596 Speaker 1: me the hell out of the stadium and backstage, and 100 00:06:21,636 --> 00:06:24,476 Speaker 1: that's how I finally met Bruce. The same is true 101 00:06:24,476 --> 00:06:27,676 Speaker 1: for his memories of eighties television. Rob also loves to 102 00:06:27,676 --> 00:06:30,996 Speaker 1: get nostalgic about bad old school TV. I told him 103 00:06:30,996 --> 00:06:32,676 Speaker 1: stories of how I used to run off the school 104 00:06:32,676 --> 00:06:36,036 Speaker 1: bus to catch my favorite afternoon shows. But Rob's childhood 105 00:06:36,076 --> 00:06:38,436 Speaker 1: TV watching stories are a bit more over the top 106 00:06:38,436 --> 00:06:42,756 Speaker 1: than mine, because Rob wasn't just watching those ABC afternoon specials, 107 00:06:43,196 --> 00:06:45,596 Speaker 1: he was also starring in them. And I used that 108 00:06:45,636 --> 00:06:47,356 Speaker 1: as an excuse to go up to the cutest girl 109 00:06:47,356 --> 00:06:49,836 Speaker 1: in the school and kind of try to chat her up. 110 00:06:49,876 --> 00:06:52,676 Speaker 1: And her name was Jennifer, and one thing led to another, 111 00:06:52,676 --> 00:06:54,436 Speaker 1: and she invited me to come to her house and 112 00:06:54,476 --> 00:06:56,676 Speaker 1: watched the after school special and she was like, you know, 113 00:06:56,756 --> 00:06:59,556 Speaker 1: my dad's in acting, so you know that'll be great. 114 00:06:59,636 --> 00:07:01,996 Speaker 1: So I roll up to her house. It's a mansion 115 00:07:02,076 --> 00:07:04,236 Speaker 1: in Beverly Hills, first time I've ever seen a mansion. 116 00:07:04,556 --> 00:07:08,716 Speaker 1: And I opened the door and it's Carrie Grant in 117 00:07:08,756 --> 00:07:12,556 Speaker 1: a bad thrope. And so we watched my little stupid 118 00:07:12,676 --> 00:07:15,276 Speaker 1: after school special with Carrie Grant, and afterwards he was like, 119 00:07:16,036 --> 00:07:19,516 Speaker 1: you remind me son of a young Warren baby, which 120 00:07:19,636 --> 00:07:24,076 Speaker 1: I took as a huge compliment. As I heard more 121 00:07:24,076 --> 00:07:26,876 Speaker 1: and more about Rob's incredible stories, I realized that he 122 00:07:26,956 --> 00:07:29,636 Speaker 1: might not be the best starting point for understanding the 123 00:07:29,756 --> 00:07:34,356 Speaker 1: average person's connection between nostalgia and happiness. I love the eighties, 124 00:07:34,476 --> 00:07:39,276 Speaker 1: but I had obviously a very very very unique seat 125 00:07:39,876 --> 00:07:42,556 Speaker 1: at the eighties. So to get a more scientific sense 126 00:07:42,596 --> 00:07:45,076 Speaker 1: of why we love thinking about the past, I decided 127 00:07:45,116 --> 00:07:47,236 Speaker 1: to turn to someone else I thought could help. My 128 00:07:47,276 --> 00:07:51,636 Speaker 1: friend and colleague, Phelippe did regard I'm an addict to nostalgia. Yes, 129 00:07:51,716 --> 00:07:54,716 Speaker 1: I love it. I relished that feeling. Phelipe is an 130 00:07:54,716 --> 00:07:59,196 Speaker 1: academic triple threat. He's a professor of psychology, cognitive neuroscience, 131 00:07:59,356 --> 00:08:04,276 Speaker 1: and philosophy at Duke University. Full disclosure, there are times 132 00:08:04,276 --> 00:08:06,796 Speaker 1: in which I feel that I was born the wrong time. 133 00:08:06,996 --> 00:08:10,196 Speaker 1: I loved the nineteen twenties of hats. I love like 134 00:08:10,316 --> 00:08:13,796 Speaker 1: dressing up nicely, you know, like chatting with Virginia Wall. 135 00:08:14,156 --> 00:08:18,036 Speaker 1: I have a very nostalgia feelic about that. But Philippa 136 00:08:18,116 --> 00:08:21,076 Speaker 1: isn't just a fan of nostalgia. He's also an academic 137 00:08:21,116 --> 00:08:24,276 Speaker 1: expert on the topic. The term nostalgia was coined in 138 00:08:24,316 --> 00:08:28,596 Speaker 1: the sixteen hundreds, and he was originally considered a neurological commission, 139 00:08:28,596 --> 00:08:31,596 Speaker 1: which is very interesting because neurology and psychiatry were well 140 00:08:31,676 --> 00:08:33,516 Speaker 1: there was no such a thing as psychiatric back then, 141 00:08:33,556 --> 00:08:36,636 Speaker 1: but it was very clearly considered a condition of the body, 142 00:08:37,036 --> 00:08:40,756 Speaker 1: and it was thought to mainly affect army personnel who 143 00:08:40,796 --> 00:08:44,436 Speaker 1: was described in Germany, and he was mostly thought off 144 00:08:44,516 --> 00:08:47,996 Speaker 1: to affect Swiss soldiers. And then there were all sorts 145 00:08:47,996 --> 00:08:52,116 Speaker 1: of very interesting origin stories as to why people felt nostalgia. 146 00:08:52,516 --> 00:08:55,076 Speaker 1: One of them had to do with ear drum damage 147 00:08:55,196 --> 00:08:59,036 Speaker 1: due to the incessant clunging of the cow bells in Switzerland. 148 00:08:59,156 --> 00:09:02,356 Speaker 1: There were stories about atmospheric pressure and so on and 149 00:09:02,396 --> 00:09:05,716 Speaker 1: so forth, but it was always considered a malady. It 150 00:09:05,756 --> 00:09:09,876 Speaker 1: was considered an illness of the body, mainly a neuralgically illness, 151 00:09:10,076 --> 00:09:14,996 Speaker 1: and also that it was associated with depression, anxiety, lack 152 00:09:15,036 --> 00:09:19,596 Speaker 1: of appetiteed Son. It wasn't until much later where people 153 00:09:19,636 --> 00:09:22,436 Speaker 1: have started to think that there might be something positive 154 00:09:22,436 --> 00:09:25,836 Speaker 1: about nostalgia. It's kind of amazing that it took hundreds 155 00:09:25,876 --> 00:09:29,356 Speaker 1: of years for scholars to realize that nostalgia actually felt good. 156 00:09:29,716 --> 00:09:32,156 Speaker 1: But these days scientists are learning that the effects of 157 00:09:32,196 --> 00:09:34,796 Speaker 1: this bitter sweet emotion are often more sweet than better. 158 00:09:35,276 --> 00:09:38,476 Speaker 1: In fact, psychologists have observed that thinking wistfully about the 159 00:09:38,516 --> 00:09:42,636 Speaker 1: past can make us feel really good. We use memories, 160 00:09:42,916 --> 00:09:45,836 Speaker 1: just as we use imagination to make us feel better now. 161 00:09:46,396 --> 00:09:50,676 Speaker 1: So nostalgia is a very good way of going on 162 00:09:50,716 --> 00:09:53,716 Speaker 1: a little mental vacation without leaving your home. And when 163 00:09:53,756 --> 00:09:56,436 Speaker 1: you cannot leave your home, that's the best way and 164 00:09:56,476 --> 00:09:59,036 Speaker 1: you can do it right. One of the times that 165 00:09:59,076 --> 00:10:01,876 Speaker 1: our brains especially seek out old memories is when we're 166 00:10:01,876 --> 00:10:04,716 Speaker 1: feeling more alone than usual. There's been a lot of 167 00:10:04,796 --> 00:10:08,596 Speaker 1: research on making people feel kind of lonely, isolated, and 168 00:10:08,636 --> 00:10:11,476 Speaker 1: stuff like that tends to elicit a little bit more 169 00:10:11,836 --> 00:10:14,276 Speaker 1: feelings of nostalgia. So it looks as though it is 170 00:10:14,316 --> 00:10:17,276 Speaker 1: when you're in a negative situation that you're more likely 171 00:10:17,316 --> 00:10:21,396 Speaker 1: to generate the senses of nostalgia. If you've listened to 172 00:10:21,476 --> 00:10:24,116 Speaker 1: other episodes of the Happiness Lab, you probably know that 173 00:10:24,236 --> 00:10:28,196 Speaker 1: feeling socially connected it's an important condition for happiness. But 174 00:10:28,316 --> 00:10:30,716 Speaker 1: it's not just the right now social connection we get 175 00:10:30,756 --> 00:10:33,036 Speaker 1: from seeing friends in the present that makes us happy. 176 00:10:33,676 --> 00:10:36,836 Speaker 1: Research shows we also get a happiness boost from merely 177 00:10:36,916 --> 00:10:40,756 Speaker 1: thinking about past social times, especially if we're feeling lonely 178 00:10:40,756 --> 00:10:43,836 Speaker 1: in the present. As one scientific paper nicely put it, 179 00:10:44,396 --> 00:10:49,276 Speaker 1: during nostalgic reverie, the mind is peopled but science has 180 00:10:49,276 --> 00:10:51,756 Speaker 1: found another way that nostalgia can boost our well being. 181 00:10:52,276 --> 00:10:55,076 Speaker 1: Re experiencing the paths can help us feel better about 182 00:10:55,076 --> 00:10:58,796 Speaker 1: how things went back in the day, which is important because, 183 00:10:58,876 --> 00:11:02,116 Speaker 1: let's face it, our past selves more always our best selves. 184 00:11:02,836 --> 00:11:06,476 Speaker 1: Past us is didn't always make those smartest choices, something 185 00:11:06,516 --> 00:11:10,156 Speaker 1: my eighties idol Roblow knows all too well. Look, there 186 00:11:10,156 --> 00:11:12,916 Speaker 1: are people who live through the eighties, and there are 187 00:11:12,916 --> 00:11:16,036 Speaker 1: people who live through the eighties. If you've wrote Rob's 188 00:11:16,076 --> 00:11:18,916 Speaker 1: memoir stories, I only tell my friends you know that 189 00:11:18,996 --> 00:11:21,516 Speaker 1: Rob had some pretty rough times early in his career, 190 00:11:22,156 --> 00:11:24,756 Speaker 1: and that's one of the reasons he personally loves nostalgia 191 00:11:24,836 --> 00:11:27,116 Speaker 1: so much. When we look back at some of the 192 00:11:27,156 --> 00:11:30,116 Speaker 1: bad choices of our youth, we often do so with 193 00:11:30,196 --> 00:11:32,276 Speaker 1: a bit more clarity than we had when we were 194 00:11:32,316 --> 00:11:36,236 Speaker 1: living through those events. And I don't think nostalgia is 195 00:11:36,316 --> 00:11:41,356 Speaker 1: nostalgia without that underpinning, you know. And also, looking back 196 00:11:41,396 --> 00:11:44,956 Speaker 1: on anything, you have twenty twenty hindsight. So if you're 197 00:11:44,956 --> 00:11:49,916 Speaker 1: being nostalgic and you're looking back, implicit in that is 198 00:11:50,076 --> 00:11:53,476 Speaker 1: what would I have done differently? This redemptive lens through 199 00:11:53,516 --> 00:11:56,356 Speaker 1: which we naturally view the past means that we remember 200 00:11:56,436 --> 00:11:59,676 Speaker 1: even the worst events with a positive spin. We recall 201 00:11:59,716 --> 00:12:02,236 Speaker 1: the good parts and neglect them not so good or 202 00:12:02,276 --> 00:12:05,916 Speaker 1: even embarrassing parts. It's like talking about the greatest beer 203 00:12:05,956 --> 00:12:09,756 Speaker 1: pong game you ever played. You're like, it's great. Vomit. Yeah, 204 00:12:09,756 --> 00:12:11,796 Speaker 1: I vomited, but but it was still great. Or like, 205 00:12:14,356 --> 00:12:16,276 Speaker 1: when we get back from the break, we'll look in 206 00:12:16,316 --> 00:12:18,796 Speaker 1: more detail at why we tend to distort the past 207 00:12:18,836 --> 00:12:22,076 Speaker 1: so badly, or, to paraphrase Rob, how it is that 208 00:12:22,076 --> 00:12:24,076 Speaker 1: our brains get all the great beer pong of the 209 00:12:24,116 --> 00:12:27,756 Speaker 1: past without any of the vomit. When the Happiness Lab returns, 210 00:12:27,876 --> 00:12:30,436 Speaker 1: we'll see that our rosy, redemptive view of the past 211 00:12:30,796 --> 00:12:33,996 Speaker 1: stems from an unfortunate design feature of our minds, one 212 00:12:34,036 --> 00:12:36,676 Speaker 1: that comes with a huge happiness cost that we don't 213 00:12:36,676 --> 00:12:39,876 Speaker 1: often recognize. We'll learn that what seems like a harmless 214 00:12:39,876 --> 00:12:42,836 Speaker 1: bit of rosy nostalgia can sometimes cause us to make 215 00:12:42,876 --> 00:12:46,316 Speaker 1: bad decisions in the present. The Happiness Lab will be 216 00:12:46,356 --> 00:12:59,836 Speaker 1: back in a moment. I mean, there's nothing like being 217 00:12:59,876 --> 00:13:03,796 Speaker 1: on a bike and suffering with people, rejoicing with people 218 00:13:04,196 --> 00:13:07,236 Speaker 1: you know. To me, it's a real shared experience. This 219 00:13:07,316 --> 00:13:10,396 Speaker 1: is Lee Thompson, a professor at Kellogg School of Management 220 00:13:10,396 --> 00:13:13,556 Speaker 1: at Northwestern University. She's an expert on the ways that 221 00:13:13,556 --> 00:13:16,396 Speaker 1: our memories can play tricks on us. But Lee is 222 00:13:16,436 --> 00:13:19,556 Speaker 1: also a world champion cyclist. She took up the sport 223 00:13:19,636 --> 00:13:23,596 Speaker 1: Latin Lay encouraged by a very devoted teacher, her fiance, Bob. 224 00:13:24,196 --> 00:13:27,076 Speaker 1: You know, he was a cyclist, and you know, my 225 00:13:27,196 --> 00:13:30,076 Speaker 1: response was like any normal person's response who doesn't ride 226 00:13:30,076 --> 00:13:32,316 Speaker 1: a bike, which is, well, anybody can ride a bike, 227 00:13:32,476 --> 00:13:35,436 Speaker 1: Like what's the big deal. But then he said, well, 228 00:13:35,476 --> 00:13:36,956 Speaker 1: do you know what it's like to go twenty five 229 00:13:36,996 --> 00:13:39,076 Speaker 1: miles an hour on a bike? And can you do 230 00:13:39,116 --> 00:13:41,556 Speaker 1: that for an hour? And it's like, okay, Well is 231 00:13:41,596 --> 00:13:44,636 Speaker 1: this a challenge or what? And Lee was up for 232 00:13:44,676 --> 00:13:47,916 Speaker 1: that challenge. After she and Bob got married, they headed 233 00:13:47,996 --> 00:13:50,476 Speaker 1: not for a beach vacation honeymoon, but for the San 234 00:13:50,556 --> 00:13:55,316 Speaker 1: Juan Islands and day long, grueling bike rides. I didn't 235 00:13:55,396 --> 00:13:58,156 Speaker 1: know that my husband's secret plan was to get me 236 00:13:58,196 --> 00:14:01,916 Speaker 1: to ride up Mount Constitution. If I would have read 237 00:14:01,956 --> 00:14:05,356 Speaker 1: anything about that, I think I would have freaked myself out, 238 00:14:05,556 --> 00:14:08,116 Speaker 1: said are you kidding me? There's no way we're doing this. 239 00:14:08,716 --> 00:14:11,676 Speaker 1: But it was only when we were like a quarter 240 00:14:11,756 --> 00:14:13,676 Speaker 1: of the way up that he said, this is going 241 00:14:13,756 --> 00:14:17,436 Speaker 1: to be a pretty serious climb, but by that time 242 00:14:17,796 --> 00:14:20,916 Speaker 1: I was already kind of one quarter into it. A 243 00:14:20,996 --> 00:14:23,636 Speaker 1: painful bike ride that's so steep you don't even think 244 00:14:23,636 --> 00:14:26,636 Speaker 1: you can finish it. That doesn't sound like most people's 245 00:14:26,676 --> 00:14:29,876 Speaker 1: idea of a good honeymoon. But Lee gets nostalgic whenever 246 00:14:29,916 --> 00:14:32,316 Speaker 1: she thinks about it. There was one time in my 247 00:14:32,356 --> 00:14:34,956 Speaker 1: life where I could go back to. It would probably 248 00:14:34,996 --> 00:14:40,676 Speaker 1: be that because it was just epic, epic fun. But 249 00:14:40,756 --> 00:14:43,596 Speaker 1: I know enough as a psychologist in my own research 250 00:14:43,996 --> 00:14:47,516 Speaker 1: to know that on any given day, there was a sunburn, 251 00:14:47,956 --> 00:14:52,876 Speaker 1: there wasn't enough food, somebody ran out of water, so 252 00:14:53,596 --> 00:14:58,316 Speaker 1: not every moment was glorious. Lee recognizes that our minds 253 00:14:58,356 --> 00:15:01,436 Speaker 1: lie to us, and one of our mind's biggest misconceptions 254 00:15:01,716 --> 00:15:04,596 Speaker 1: is that our recollections of the past are totally accurate. 255 00:15:04,876 --> 00:15:10,076 Speaker 1: Our memories are pretty fallible. That seems like a judgy word, 256 00:15:10,156 --> 00:15:14,476 Speaker 1: but our memories are not necessarily like a video recorder. 257 00:15:15,236 --> 00:15:18,156 Speaker 1: Human memory doesn't have the hard drive space to videotape 258 00:15:18,156 --> 00:15:21,196 Speaker 1: life in its entirety, so our brains play fast and 259 00:15:21,236 --> 00:15:23,876 Speaker 1: loose with the footage. The first thing we do is 260 00:15:23,916 --> 00:15:26,476 Speaker 1: delete most of the boring parts. The half hour of 261 00:15:26,556 --> 00:15:28,676 Speaker 1: your vacation that you spent in traffic, or the part 262 00:15:28,716 --> 00:15:30,356 Speaker 1: where you had to wait for dinner to show up, 263 00:15:30,716 --> 00:15:33,156 Speaker 1: or the ten minutes you spent going through airport security. 264 00:15:33,716 --> 00:15:37,036 Speaker 1: All those filler moments get dropped. But dropping those boring 265 00:15:37,076 --> 00:15:39,556 Speaker 1: bits means that our memories are skewed in a very 266 00:15:39,596 --> 00:15:42,596 Speaker 1: systematic way. The past seems to have a higher ratio 267 00:15:42,636 --> 00:15:45,716 Speaker 1: of interesting moments to boring stuff than real life does. 268 00:15:46,436 --> 00:15:48,476 Speaker 1: But that's not the only way our minds are biased. 269 00:15:48,956 --> 00:15:51,316 Speaker 1: Our brains also don't like to recall the bad stuff, 270 00:15:51,556 --> 00:15:54,276 Speaker 1: the sunburns and the rainy beach days and lost luggage, 271 00:15:54,956 --> 00:15:58,316 Speaker 1: and so our brains cook the data. Lee has argued 272 00:15:58,396 --> 00:16:00,756 Speaker 1: that we simply tend to forget the parts of an 273 00:16:00,756 --> 00:16:03,516 Speaker 1: event that weren't positive. For example, I know on my 274 00:16:03,556 --> 00:16:06,196 Speaker 1: honeymoon there was a day where both of us didn't 275 00:16:06,196 --> 00:16:11,076 Speaker 1: wear sunscreen and there were very, very uncomfortable burns. I 276 00:16:11,276 --> 00:16:14,596 Speaker 1: choose not to dwell on that. I choose not to 277 00:16:14,636 --> 00:16:20,796 Speaker 1: make the most important aspect. But anybody who's had a 278 00:16:20,796 --> 00:16:24,676 Speaker 1: pretty bad sunburn knows that can be a deal breaker 279 00:16:25,076 --> 00:16:28,476 Speaker 1: as far as your ability to enjoy the rest of 280 00:16:28,516 --> 00:16:32,396 Speaker 1: the vacation. Our minds are also want to be movie directors. 281 00:16:32,716 --> 00:16:35,436 Speaker 1: They really like a good story, the kind that has 282 00:16:35,436 --> 00:16:38,796 Speaker 1: a happy ending, and that means that our brains unconsciously 283 00:16:38,836 --> 00:16:42,276 Speaker 1: rewrite past events so that they seem more entertaining. That 284 00:16:42,476 --> 00:16:46,316 Speaker 1: sunset becomes even more beautiful, that fish we caught becomes 285 00:16:46,316 --> 00:16:50,276 Speaker 1: not just reasonably sized, but really really huge. That beer 286 00:16:50,316 --> 00:16:54,076 Speaker 1: pund game becomes more fun and less vomit filled. And 287 00:16:54,116 --> 00:16:56,876 Speaker 1: when we do manage to remember those annoying moments, they 288 00:16:56,916 --> 00:17:00,436 Speaker 1: somehow magically transform into life lessons that provide a nice 289 00:17:00,556 --> 00:17:06,076 Speaker 1: narrative arc. So what was an absolute disaster trip could 290 00:17:06,156 --> 00:17:09,796 Speaker 1: turn out to be a hilarious story or the fact 291 00:17:10,076 --> 00:17:12,876 Speaker 1: kind of like, oh look at me, I managed to survive. 292 00:17:13,156 --> 00:17:15,436 Speaker 1: That's kind of an extreme example of what we call 293 00:17:15,516 --> 00:17:18,796 Speaker 1: story construction or sense making. It becomes kind of a 294 00:17:18,796 --> 00:17:22,716 Speaker 1: funny story to tell. After all these edits, our memories 295 00:17:22,716 --> 00:17:25,916 Speaker 1: are no longer accurate recordings of real life events. They're 296 00:17:25,996 --> 00:17:29,436 Speaker 1: unconsciously spin doctored highlight reels. It's a bias that Lee 297 00:17:29,476 --> 00:17:33,156 Speaker 1: and her colleagues have referred to as Rosie retrospection, which 298 00:17:33,196 --> 00:17:38,116 Speaker 1: technically means that our memory for this bounded event in 299 00:17:38,236 --> 00:17:43,196 Speaker 1: time is a lot more favorable and positive and fulfilling 300 00:17:43,916 --> 00:17:48,636 Speaker 1: than was the actual experience of the event itself. But 301 00:17:48,796 --> 00:17:52,156 Speaker 1: rosie retrospections aren't just memories we think back on passively. 302 00:17:52,716 --> 00:17:55,396 Speaker 1: We also use them to predict what we will enjoy 303 00:17:55,476 --> 00:17:58,236 Speaker 1: and will enjoy in the future, and that leads to 304 00:17:58,236 --> 00:18:01,876 Speaker 1: a second bias, what Lee and her colleagues call rosie prospection. 305 00:18:02,476 --> 00:18:04,916 Speaker 1: When we think about a future event, like a dinner 306 00:18:04,956 --> 00:18:07,636 Speaker 1: with friends or a vacation, we predict that it's going 307 00:18:07,676 --> 00:18:10,596 Speaker 1: to be great, just like similar events are in our 308 00:18:10,636 --> 00:18:16,436 Speaker 1: biased positive memories. Anticipating that event, I probably wouldn't be 309 00:18:16,516 --> 00:18:20,676 Speaker 1: thinking about the stress of going through an international airport 310 00:18:20,756 --> 00:18:23,156 Speaker 1: and the stress of I don't know packing or not 311 00:18:23,236 --> 00:18:25,876 Speaker 1: getting my bag. I'd just be thinking about, Oh, the 312 00:18:26,196 --> 00:18:30,476 Speaker 1: arrival and the perfect weather. The idea of rosy prospection 313 00:18:30,516 --> 00:18:33,556 Speaker 1: and retrospection fit well with what Lee experienced in her 314 00:18:33,556 --> 00:18:36,876 Speaker 1: own honeymoon, But did Lee's hypothesis match what real people 315 00:18:36,956 --> 00:18:40,836 Speaker 1: actually experience. Lee wanted to test this empirically, but she 316 00:18:40,916 --> 00:18:44,556 Speaker 1: had to locate a pretty special population of subjects. She 317 00:18:44,636 --> 00:18:46,396 Speaker 1: had to find a group of people who were about 318 00:18:46,436 --> 00:18:49,516 Speaker 1: to undergo a positive experience in their lives, some sort 319 00:18:49,516 --> 00:18:51,676 Speaker 1: of event that would make for a good memory. But 320 00:18:51,756 --> 00:18:53,916 Speaker 1: those people also had to be willing to fill out 321 00:18:53,956 --> 00:18:56,996 Speaker 1: a bunch of boring surveys during the event. What Lee 322 00:18:56,996 --> 00:18:59,596 Speaker 1: didn't realize at the time was that her scientific solution 323 00:18:59,636 --> 00:19:02,996 Speaker 1: to these problems would come, oddly enough, from the biking world. 324 00:19:03,636 --> 00:19:06,556 Speaker 1: Her colleague Randy Kronk was organizing a bike trip down 325 00:19:06,596 --> 00:19:10,116 Speaker 1: the coast of California for his students. So we thought, 326 00:19:10,356 --> 00:19:13,636 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this is fantastic. It's like our perfect 327 00:19:13,796 --> 00:19:17,716 Speaker 1: dream study. Lee first had the students predict how much 328 00:19:17,716 --> 00:19:20,796 Speaker 1: they'd enjoy the bike trip before it started. They were asked, 329 00:19:20,836 --> 00:19:23,236 Speaker 1: how much do you agree with these statements, I'm going 330 00:19:23,276 --> 00:19:26,116 Speaker 1: to enjoy this trip, I'm going to think this vacation 331 00:19:26,276 --> 00:19:28,836 Speaker 1: is fun, I'm going to feel good during this trip, 332 00:19:28,956 --> 00:19:32,196 Speaker 1: and so on. Subjects were also asked the same questions 333 00:19:32,196 --> 00:19:34,836 Speaker 1: again when they were on the trip itself and after 334 00:19:34,876 --> 00:19:36,676 Speaker 1: the trip when they were on their flight back home. 335 00:19:37,516 --> 00:19:40,276 Speaker 1: So what a Lee fine. Well, before the bike trip, 336 00:19:40,596 --> 00:19:43,076 Speaker 1: subjects thought their enjoyment would be at a twenty seven 337 00:19:43,076 --> 00:19:45,956 Speaker 1: out of twenty eight total points on Lee's measure. They 338 00:19:45,996 --> 00:19:48,516 Speaker 1: thought the trip was going to be awesome, but by 339 00:19:48,516 --> 00:19:51,636 Speaker 1: the second day, subject had dropped to only a twenty 340 00:19:51,676 --> 00:19:54,716 Speaker 1: out of twenty eight. The biker's enjoyment stayed lower than 341 00:19:54,756 --> 00:19:58,516 Speaker 1: they had initially predicted for the entire week. But what 342 00:19:58,676 --> 00:20:01,996 Speaker 1: happened a single day after the bike tour ended, subjects 343 00:20:02,036 --> 00:20:05,036 Speaker 1: remembered their trip much better than it was. They said 344 00:20:05,036 --> 00:20:07,556 Speaker 1: their experience was a twenty six out of twenty eight. 345 00:20:08,156 --> 00:20:11,276 Speaker 1: On average, the b ER's final post trip rating was 346 00:20:11,356 --> 00:20:14,556 Speaker 1: higher than their enjoyment had actually been at any single 347 00:20:14,596 --> 00:20:17,196 Speaker 1: point during the trip. Now that the trip was over, 348 00:20:17,516 --> 00:20:20,436 Speaker 1: it was awesome when you ask people, oh, you have 349 00:20:20,556 --> 00:20:23,036 Speaker 1: this event coming up, how are you feeling. Oh my gosh, 350 00:20:23,076 --> 00:20:25,916 Speaker 1: it's going to be fantastic. I'm so excited. This is 351 00:20:25,956 --> 00:20:30,116 Speaker 1: going to be so pleasureful. And then during the event, Uh, 352 00:20:30,956 --> 00:20:34,036 Speaker 1: my socks are wet. I forgot to bring mosquito repellent, 353 00:20:34,116 --> 00:20:37,036 Speaker 1: you know, like so yucky, you know, the food they 354 00:20:37,116 --> 00:20:40,716 Speaker 1: ran out of whatever. So there's a dampening as we 355 00:20:40,756 --> 00:20:44,556 Speaker 1: called it, during the event. And then after the event, boom, 356 00:20:44,596 --> 00:20:48,956 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the rosy retrospection kicks in, where 357 00:20:48,996 --> 00:20:53,596 Speaker 1: people are remembering the event as much more pleasureful than 358 00:20:54,156 --> 00:21:01,596 Speaker 1: they reported during the event. Itself. Now. At first glance, 359 00:21:01,676 --> 00:21:04,876 Speaker 1: the positive biases Lee identified may seem like a great 360 00:21:04,916 --> 00:21:08,516 Speaker 1: design feature of the mind. Rosie retrospection allows our memory 361 00:21:08,516 --> 00:21:11,716 Speaker 1: banks to be filled with extra positive, less boring recordings 362 00:21:11,716 --> 00:21:15,396 Speaker 1: of the past, and remembering all those positively edited memories 363 00:21:15,476 --> 00:21:18,436 Speaker 1: makes us feel happier, less lonely, and even more redeemed 364 00:21:18,436 --> 00:21:22,516 Speaker 1: in the present. All good stuff, really, But Lee's research 365 00:21:22,596 --> 00:21:25,996 Speaker 1: also reveals a major dark side to these biases are 366 00:21:26,076 --> 00:21:29,596 Speaker 1: positively skewed. Recollections aren't just passive recordings that we go 367 00:21:29,636 --> 00:21:33,076 Speaker 1: back to when we're feeling nostalgic. We also use our 368 00:21:33,076 --> 00:21:35,476 Speaker 1: memories in the present to make predictions about how we 369 00:21:35,476 --> 00:21:38,436 Speaker 1: ought to be spending our time. So if our overly 370 00:21:38,516 --> 00:21:42,116 Speaker 1: rosy memories are getting our past realities really wrong, what 371 00:21:42,196 --> 00:21:44,716 Speaker 1: does that mean for the accuracy with which we're making 372 00:21:44,716 --> 00:21:49,236 Speaker 1: the decisions of today. I remember distinctly having the time 373 00:21:49,276 --> 00:21:52,116 Speaker 1: of my life at I don't know what kind of 374 00:21:52,156 --> 00:21:54,596 Speaker 1: small town kind of carnival things that you go to 375 00:21:54,716 --> 00:21:57,876 Speaker 1: at night, may have these like rides and you'd eat 376 00:21:57,916 --> 00:22:01,276 Speaker 1: cotton candy, and I just remember thinking, this is my thing. 377 00:22:01,476 --> 00:22:04,236 Speaker 1: I want to go do that. Even though she's a 378 00:22:04,276 --> 00:22:08,276 Speaker 1: world expert on memory biases. Lee still sometimes falls prey 379 00:22:08,356 --> 00:22:11,556 Speaker 1: to the problems her own nostalgia. Well, I made the 380 00:22:11,636 --> 00:22:16,036 Speaker 1: mistake of doing that not so long ago, and I 381 00:22:16,156 --> 00:22:19,796 Speaker 1: was dizzy. I got a migraine headache. The cotton candy 382 00:22:21,636 --> 00:22:25,476 Speaker 1: was terrible, Like, how does anybody eat that stuff? Lee 383 00:22:25,556 --> 00:22:28,876 Speaker 1: naturally assumed that her fond memories of carnivals would accurately 384 00:22:28,916 --> 00:22:31,996 Speaker 1: predict how positively her presence self would feel if she 385 00:22:32,116 --> 00:22:34,596 Speaker 1: jumped on a roller coaster or took that first bite 386 00:22:34,596 --> 00:22:37,476 Speaker 1: of cotton candy. She assumed all the great things she 387 00:22:37,596 --> 00:22:40,516 Speaker 1: remembered about fairs of the past would feel just as 388 00:22:40,516 --> 00:22:44,036 Speaker 1: good today as they seemed in her nostalgic memories. But 389 00:22:44,156 --> 00:22:47,396 Speaker 1: Lee's overly glossy memories of the past wound up reducing 390 00:22:47,396 --> 00:22:51,476 Speaker 1: her current happiness and making her a little nauseous. Constantly 391 00:22:51,516 --> 00:22:54,316 Speaker 1: rewriting the past in a favorable light may make us 392 00:22:54,316 --> 00:22:56,796 Speaker 1: happier when we look back, but it also means we 393 00:22:56,836 --> 00:23:00,436 Speaker 1: don't correctly adjust to the demands of the future. For instance, 394 00:23:00,676 --> 00:23:02,916 Speaker 1: focusing on the highlights of a marriage or a job 395 00:23:03,076 --> 00:23:05,716 Speaker 1: might cause us to stay in relationships or work environments 396 00:23:05,716 --> 00:23:08,236 Speaker 1: that aren't good for us, where the bad times in 397 00:23:08,276 --> 00:23:11,596 Speaker 1: reality weigh the good. But it's not just our personal 398 00:23:11,676 --> 00:23:14,756 Speaker 1: choices that are led astray by our biased memories. When 399 00:23:14,796 --> 00:23:16,956 Speaker 1: we get back from the break, we'll see that there 400 00:23:16,956 --> 00:23:21,476 Speaker 1: are also societal costs to all these rosy retrospections, ones 401 00:23:21,516 --> 00:23:24,156 Speaker 1: that can be used against us when we least expected 402 00:23:24,796 --> 00:23:30,556 Speaker 1: America proud again. We will make America safe again. And yes, 403 00:23:30,916 --> 00:23:37,156 Speaker 1: together we will make America great again. We'll explore this 404 00:23:37,316 --> 00:23:40,516 Speaker 1: dark side of nostalgia when the Happiness lab returns in 405 00:23:40,556 --> 00:23:53,636 Speaker 1: a moment. And from Colombia, and that's where I grew 406 00:23:53,716 --> 00:23:57,036 Speaker 1: up until I moved to the States eighteen years ago. 407 00:23:57,636 --> 00:24:01,876 Speaker 1: Nostalgia expert Felippe de Bregard's immigrant experience explains why he 408 00:24:01,916 --> 00:24:04,796 Speaker 1: relates so much to one of his favorite literary heroes, 409 00:24:05,156 --> 00:24:08,996 Speaker 1: hoof an Al Orbino, a character in Gabriel Gussia Marcus's 410 00:24:09,156 --> 00:24:12,716 Speaker 1: famous book Love in the Time of Cholera. Like Philippe, 411 00:24:13,196 --> 00:24:16,316 Speaker 1: Jouvenal made the tough decision to leave Columbia to study abroad, 412 00:24:16,796 --> 00:24:20,836 Speaker 1: but unlike Philippe, Juvenal's ignorance of his own rosy retrospections 413 00:24:21,276 --> 00:24:24,436 Speaker 1: never let him properly process that decision. When he's in Paris, 414 00:24:24,516 --> 00:24:28,196 Speaker 1: keep Philips extraordinarily nostalgic about going back to his hometown, 415 00:24:28,516 --> 00:24:30,996 Speaker 1: and he wants to go back, doesn't enjoy Paris, and 416 00:24:31,076 --> 00:24:34,836 Speaker 1: then when he goes back, he's not happy, Like this 417 00:24:34,916 --> 00:24:37,836 Speaker 1: is not at all how I imagine it right. Our 418 00:24:37,916 --> 00:24:41,276 Speaker 1: rosy retrospections mean that we spend the present constantly wishing 419 00:24:41,276 --> 00:24:42,636 Speaker 1: we could go back to what it was like in 420 00:24:42,636 --> 00:24:45,396 Speaker 1: the past. But in the rare cases where those wishes 421 00:24:45,436 --> 00:24:48,556 Speaker 1: come true, as they did for juvenal, we usually find 422 00:24:48,596 --> 00:24:51,476 Speaker 1: that those past situations aren't as good as we Rosalie 423 00:24:51,476 --> 00:24:55,396 Speaker 1: remembered to steal the eloquent words of Garcia Marquez. We 424 00:24:55,516 --> 00:24:59,716 Speaker 1: become easy victims to the charitable deceptions of nostalgia. But 425 00:24:59,796 --> 00:25:03,316 Speaker 1: the fact that our nostalgic tendencies are so easily deceived 426 00:25:03,716 --> 00:25:06,516 Speaker 1: also makes us easy marks for people who might want 427 00:25:06,556 --> 00:25:10,116 Speaker 1: to exploit a rosier past. And minds are so prone 428 00:25:10,156 --> 00:25:13,276 Speaker 1: to rosy retrospection that it's really simple to feed us 429 00:25:13,276 --> 00:25:15,636 Speaker 1: a good story about what things were like back in 430 00:25:15,676 --> 00:25:19,156 Speaker 1: the day. So imagine utopia that was better then than 431 00:25:19,196 --> 00:25:22,356 Speaker 1: it is now, which is why so many political movements 432 00:25:22,436 --> 00:25:24,836 Speaker 1: are keen to convince us that everything in life would 433 00:25:24,836 --> 00:25:27,476 Speaker 1: be peachy if we could just return to the good 434 00:25:27,476 --> 00:25:30,516 Speaker 1: old days. That was the whole Trump campaign right make 435 00:25:30,556 --> 00:25:33,956 Speaker 1: America great again, and that again was clearly an indication 436 00:25:33,996 --> 00:25:36,916 Speaker 1: that it was good before and that we should strive 437 00:25:36,996 --> 00:25:41,036 Speaker 1: to do something like in the past. Philippe saw justice 438 00:25:41,116 --> 00:25:44,116 Speaker 1: pattern in his own country's right wing propaganda, but it 439 00:25:44,116 --> 00:25:48,116 Speaker 1: attempts to end decades of political violence. I left Columbia 440 00:25:48,516 --> 00:25:51,916 Speaker 1: very unhappy with the political situation. Some of the most 441 00:25:51,996 --> 00:25:55,076 Speaker 1: horrible acts ever committed by a government I think in 442 00:25:55,116 --> 00:25:57,916 Speaker 1: Colombia happened during that time. But what it is very 443 00:25:57,956 --> 00:26:00,556 Speaker 1: surprising to me is that, you know, many of the 444 00:26:00,556 --> 00:26:04,076 Speaker 1: people that voted against the peace process had an extraordinarily 445 00:26:04,116 --> 00:26:07,116 Speaker 1: distorted view of how the past was, so they were 446 00:26:07,156 --> 00:26:10,956 Speaker 1: hoping to sort of go by to a kind of 447 00:26:10,996 --> 00:26:13,916 Speaker 1: life that never occurred in Colombia, never. This is a 448 00:26:13,996 --> 00:26:17,396 Speaker 1: situation again in which nostalgia is a very bad motivator, 449 00:26:17,716 --> 00:26:19,836 Speaker 1: and that's because the science shows that we don't just 450 00:26:19,916 --> 00:26:23,636 Speaker 1: experience nostalgia for a past that we actually experienced. Our 451 00:26:23,676 --> 00:26:26,996 Speaker 1: memories are so biased that we sometimes experience nostalgia for 452 00:26:27,036 --> 00:26:29,996 Speaker 1: a past that never even occurred, for one that we 453 00:26:30,076 --> 00:26:33,476 Speaker 1: only imagined happening. You go, like, Holy Molly, I would 454 00:26:33,516 --> 00:26:36,356 Speaker 1: be so much better off if I was in that 455 00:26:36,556 --> 00:26:40,196 Speaker 1: imagined situation that I never leave. I never experienced, but 456 00:26:40,396 --> 00:26:44,756 Speaker 1: I am very capable of mentally simulating relative to this 457 00:26:45,196 --> 00:26:48,156 Speaker 1: state that I am in right now, is this is 458 00:26:48,196 --> 00:26:52,276 Speaker 1: the worst possible way you're going about making decisions. So 459 00:26:52,276 --> 00:26:55,796 Speaker 1: how can we protect ourselves from the nefarious parts of nostalgia? 460 00:26:55,876 --> 00:26:58,196 Speaker 1: How can we get the benefits of our rosy past 461 00:26:58,516 --> 00:27:02,676 Speaker 1: without all those biased memories hurting our current decisions. Philippe 462 00:27:02,836 --> 00:27:05,676 Speaker 1: thinks one path forward is to pay attention to why 463 00:27:05,716 --> 00:27:08,196 Speaker 1: we're turning to the past in the first place. What 464 00:27:08,316 --> 00:27:10,756 Speaker 1: to our memories tell us we're missing in the present. 465 00:27:11,876 --> 00:27:15,716 Speaker 1: You might think that what you want is to go 466 00:27:15,796 --> 00:27:18,356 Speaker 1: back to high school, but really what is going to 467 00:27:18,396 --> 00:27:21,996 Speaker 1: satisfy the sire is to get new friends. But there's 468 00:27:22,036 --> 00:27:25,076 Speaker 1: also a second way to avoid the problems of nostalgia. 469 00:27:25,196 --> 00:27:27,716 Speaker 1: The funny thing is that it seems kind of countrituitive, 470 00:27:27,956 --> 00:27:30,676 Speaker 1: because what I think we should do is to improve 471 00:27:30,836 --> 00:27:34,316 Speaker 1: our memory of the past. We need historians really helping 472 00:27:34,396 --> 00:27:40,716 Speaker 1: us dispel the delusions that nostalgia create. I think universities 473 00:27:40,756 --> 00:27:44,996 Speaker 1: should hire historians. I think podcasters should interview historians. The 474 00:27:45,036 --> 00:27:49,076 Speaker 1: best way to sort of minimize the distortions of nostalgia 475 00:27:49,156 --> 00:27:52,596 Speaker 1: is to actually improve our memory. As I heard more 476 00:27:52,636 --> 00:27:55,956 Speaker 1: fully based strategies for preventing the problems of rosy retrospection, 477 00:27:56,596 --> 00:27:58,836 Speaker 1: I realized I needed to talk to someone who had 478 00:27:58,836 --> 00:28:02,156 Speaker 1: special insight into how to use our fond memories productively. 479 00:28:02,916 --> 00:28:06,716 Speaker 1: Not a historian or scholar, but someone whose entire career 480 00:28:06,836 --> 00:28:10,196 Speaker 1: could have been defined by the past. But isn't my 481 00:28:10,316 --> 00:28:14,316 Speaker 1: eighties idol, Rob blow Listen. I love the eighties as 482 00:28:14,396 --> 00:28:17,836 Speaker 1: much as the next guy. But when people come up 483 00:28:17,836 --> 00:28:21,196 Speaker 1: to me, the thing that I'm most proud of in 484 00:28:21,276 --> 00:28:25,436 Speaker 1: all my career is that I never know what they're 485 00:28:25,476 --> 00:28:28,716 Speaker 1: going to want to talk about. I love that I'm 486 00:28:28,796 --> 00:28:33,556 Speaker 1: not anchored to any one era, or to any one 487 00:28:33,636 --> 00:28:38,316 Speaker 1: TV show, or to any one movie. The eighties is 488 00:28:38,516 --> 00:28:42,636 Speaker 1: merely a fantastic chapter that a lot of people like, 489 00:28:42,836 --> 00:28:46,556 Speaker 1: including me. Unlike many stars from the eighties, Rob managed 490 00:28:46,636 --> 00:28:49,316 Speaker 1: not to get stuck there. Despite the fact that Rob 491 00:28:49,396 --> 00:28:52,196 Speaker 1: is himself very nostalgic, and the fact that he is, 492 00:28:52,316 --> 00:28:55,676 Speaker 1: for me at least, the absolute epitome of eighties nostalgia, 493 00:28:55,836 --> 00:28:59,956 Speaker 1: He's seamlessly managed to move beyond that decade. Nearly all 494 00:28:59,996 --> 00:29:03,756 Speaker 1: of Rob's biggest successes in movies and TV as an author, 495 00:29:03,836 --> 00:29:06,716 Speaker 1: and now even in podcasting with his new show, Literally 496 00:29:06,756 --> 00:29:10,196 Speaker 1: with Rob Blow. They've all come since the eighties. For 497 00:29:10,236 --> 00:29:13,476 Speaker 1: a self proclaimed lover of nostalgia, Rob hasn't let his 498 00:29:13,596 --> 00:29:17,596 Speaker 1: rosy retrospection affect his present success or his current happiness. 499 00:29:18,316 --> 00:29:20,276 Speaker 1: One of my greatest fears was always being a one 500 00:29:20,356 --> 00:29:26,796 Speaker 1: hit wonder. Four decades in, I still wake up and go, so, 501 00:29:26,836 --> 00:29:29,876 Speaker 1: what's Rob's secret? Well, even though he's not a psychologist, 502 00:29:30,156 --> 00:29:32,476 Speaker 1: Rob seems to have an intuitive sense that our memories 503 00:29:32,516 --> 00:29:35,796 Speaker 1: are more fallible than we realize. His unique cultural seat 504 00:29:35,796 --> 00:29:38,156 Speaker 1: in the eighties has made him all too aware that 505 00:29:38,236 --> 00:29:41,116 Speaker 1: we sometimes celebrate parts of the past that were at 506 00:29:41,116 --> 00:29:44,276 Speaker 1: the time kind of sucky. So in the eighties, everybody 507 00:29:44,356 --> 00:29:48,716 Speaker 1: shit all over the music. It seems shocking now, but like, 508 00:29:49,716 --> 00:29:53,436 Speaker 1: when did Journeys can't stop believe in become the national anthem? 509 00:29:53,436 --> 00:29:57,556 Speaker 1: Because I remember the eighties and people laughed at Journey 510 00:29:58,476 --> 00:30:02,316 Speaker 1: they thought they were a cheesy, hack rock band. Now 511 00:30:02,396 --> 00:30:07,556 Speaker 1: that's every college campus frat party. Raise your beers, start 512 00:30:07,636 --> 00:30:10,396 Speaker 1: crying and dancing song. It's the end of the Sopranos. 513 00:30:10,996 --> 00:30:13,196 Speaker 1: If you'd have told me in nineteen eighty four that 514 00:30:13,196 --> 00:30:17,076 Speaker 1: that was the song. I would have said, no way. Well, 515 00:30:17,116 --> 00:30:19,316 Speaker 1: it's easy for all of us to misremember the past. 516 00:30:19,796 --> 00:30:21,836 Speaker 1: That's a luxury that people who've lived in the public 517 00:30:21,876 --> 00:30:25,756 Speaker 1: eye don't always have. Rob's problems with substance addiction and 518 00:30:25,836 --> 00:30:29,116 Speaker 1: sex scandals are common knowledge, and that means that Rob 519 00:30:29,156 --> 00:30:31,756 Speaker 1: has had to be honest with himself about the harmful 520 00:30:31,796 --> 00:30:34,676 Speaker 1: actions he engaged in as a young man. It's made 521 00:30:34,756 --> 00:30:38,916 Speaker 1: him penitent and more clear eyed about the past. Rob's 522 00:30:38,916 --> 00:30:41,756 Speaker 1: also gotten a newfound perspective on the challenges of teenage 523 00:30:41,796 --> 00:30:44,756 Speaker 1: life as a father to his own boys, Matthew and John. 524 00:30:45,516 --> 00:30:48,676 Speaker 1: Rob's kids never became huge teen movie stars like their dad. 525 00:30:49,396 --> 00:30:51,476 Speaker 1: Watching Matthew and John grew up with more run of 526 00:30:51,476 --> 00:30:55,116 Speaker 1: the mill adolescent milestones has made Rob realized just how 527 00:30:55,156 --> 00:31:01,196 Speaker 1: odd his own experience was. My son is eighteen, Okay, 528 00:31:01,236 --> 00:31:04,676 Speaker 1: so now he's world famous. That kid right there, eighteen 529 00:31:04,716 --> 00:31:08,556 Speaker 1: world famous, and it just takes my breath away. I'm like, 530 00:31:08,676 --> 00:31:12,436 Speaker 1: I wouldn't wish that on that eighteen year old kid. 531 00:31:13,036 --> 00:31:16,916 Speaker 1: He's never home, he's on the road, he's making tons 532 00:31:16,956 --> 00:31:18,996 Speaker 1: of money, and it's like, I can't believe it happened 533 00:31:18,996 --> 00:31:22,196 Speaker 1: to me. But Rob's biggest insight comes from something we 534 00:31:22,236 --> 00:31:25,436 Speaker 1: talk about a lot on this podcast. To be fully happy, 535 00:31:25,596 --> 00:31:27,356 Speaker 1: we need to get out of the past long enough 536 00:31:27,436 --> 00:31:29,796 Speaker 1: to make the most of the present moment. When you 537 00:31:29,836 --> 00:31:32,316 Speaker 1: think about happiness, do you think it's more about looking 538 00:31:32,356 --> 00:31:35,036 Speaker 1: back looking forward, a combination of both, Like how do 539 00:31:35,076 --> 00:31:38,396 Speaker 1: you think about it in your own life? It's not 540 00:31:38,476 --> 00:31:40,716 Speaker 1: looking forward and not looking back. Although we've been talking 541 00:31:40,756 --> 00:31:43,676 Speaker 1: about nostalgia, which doesn't make me happy, obviously, really happy, 542 00:31:44,356 --> 00:31:51,876 Speaker 1: true happiness is being present in this moment and your 543 00:31:51,916 --> 00:31:54,036 Speaker 1: mind's not telling you, hey, you know what you should 544 00:31:54,076 --> 00:31:55,756 Speaker 1: really be doing, you should be doing X, Y and Z, 545 00:31:56,316 --> 00:31:58,836 Speaker 1: or hey, you know you should really go back. None 546 00:31:58,876 --> 00:32:02,076 Speaker 1: of that monkey brain part of yourself is shut off, 547 00:32:02,676 --> 00:32:05,756 Speaker 1: and you are fully present in whatever you are doing 548 00:32:06,476 --> 00:32:10,156 Speaker 1: and content with that. That is the finition of true 549 00:32:10,156 --> 00:32:13,796 Speaker 1: happiness for me. This insight into the importance of making 550 00:32:13,836 --> 00:32:16,236 Speaker 1: sure he's living in the present moment came from one 551 00:32:16,236 --> 00:32:19,436 Speaker 1: of the hardest one battles of Rob's life. I I've 552 00:32:19,436 --> 00:32:24,036 Speaker 1: been sober now thirty years and it changed my life. 553 00:32:24,516 --> 00:32:27,116 Speaker 1: And one of the big tenets of recovery is learning 554 00:32:27,116 --> 00:32:29,596 Speaker 1: to live in the now and learning to be happy 555 00:32:29,636 --> 00:32:32,396 Speaker 1: with what's in front of you to the extent that 556 00:32:32,436 --> 00:32:34,516 Speaker 1: I'm able to do that on a daily basis, is 557 00:32:34,556 --> 00:32:37,516 Speaker 1: a direct correlation to how happy I am at any 558 00:32:37,556 --> 00:32:41,996 Speaker 1: given time. Nostalgia can be a pleasant experience, but our 559 00:32:42,036 --> 00:32:44,436 Speaker 1: memories of the past can also hurt our present selves 560 00:32:44,476 --> 00:32:47,476 Speaker 1: if we're not careful. But when we take a present focus, 561 00:32:47,836 --> 00:32:49,676 Speaker 1: when we learn to be content with what's in front 562 00:32:49,716 --> 00:32:52,276 Speaker 1: of us, when we recognize that we want to remember 563 00:32:52,316 --> 00:32:54,396 Speaker 1: what's going on in the here and now as happily 564 00:32:54,396 --> 00:32:57,396 Speaker 1: as possible, we can avoid the problems that come with 565 00:32:57,436 --> 00:33:01,876 Speaker 1: an extra rosy retrospection. Rob's living proof that understanding our 566 00:33:01,876 --> 00:33:05,476 Speaker 1: minds biases can help us appreciate our past and even 567 00:33:05,516 --> 00:33:09,596 Speaker 1: dig into all that yummy and psychologically beneficial nostalgia without 568 00:33:09,636 --> 00:33:12,516 Speaker 1: the drawbacks. When we notice what we're longing for in 569 00:33:12,556 --> 00:33:15,276 Speaker 1: the past, we can choose not to go backwards, but 570 00:33:15,396 --> 00:33:18,396 Speaker 1: decide how to move forward in the future. Rob taught 571 00:33:18,396 --> 00:33:20,516 Speaker 1: me that an accurate sense of the pros and cons 572 00:33:20,516 --> 00:33:22,716 Speaker 1: of the past can be a helpful way to enjoy 573 00:33:22,836 --> 00:33:25,436 Speaker 1: and make the most of the present, which was really 574 00:33:25,436 --> 00:33:28,636 Speaker 1: good news for me because I really really wasn't ready 575 00:33:28,676 --> 00:33:32,156 Speaker 1: to throw away my eighties playlist just yet. In fact, 576 00:33:32,236 --> 00:33:34,596 Speaker 1: after chatting with Rob, I think it's time for a 577 00:33:34,676 --> 00:33:38,996 Speaker 1: long classic eighties movie marathon and maybe some cheesy music 578 00:33:39,076 --> 00:33:51,316 Speaker 1: videos because I definitely still want my MTV. But not 579 00:33:51,356 --> 00:33:54,156 Speaker 1: to worry, because I'll be back from my retrofest just 580 00:33:54,276 --> 00:33:57,156 Speaker 1: in time for the next episode of The Happiness Lab 581 00:33:57,236 --> 00:34:08,276 Speaker 1: with me Doctor Laurie Santos. The Happiness Lab is co 582 00:34:08,316 --> 00:34:11,316 Speaker 1: written and produced by Ryan Dilley. Our original music was 583 00:34:11,356 --> 00:34:14,996 Speaker 1: composed by Zachary Silver, with additional scoring, mixing and mastering 584 00:34:15,076 --> 00:34:19,036 Speaker 1: by Evan Biola. Joseph Friedman checked our facts, Sophie Crane 585 00:34:19,076 --> 00:34:22,276 Speaker 1: mckibbon edited our scripts, and Pete not and help with production. 586 00:34:23,196 --> 00:34:27,916 Speaker 1: Special thanks to mil LaBelle, Carlie mcgliori, Heather Faine, Julia Barton, 587 00:34:28,276 --> 00:34:32,956 Speaker 1: Maggie Taylor, Maya Kanig, Jacob Weisberg, and my agent, Ben Davis. 588 00:34:33,476 --> 00:34:36,036 Speaker 1: The Happiness Lab is brought to you by Pushkin Industries 589 00:34:36,196 --> 00:34:37,956 Speaker 1: and NAT Doctor Laurie Santos.