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Speaker 1: Hi everyone. I'm Rachel Zoe and I'm Roger Berman, and

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Speaker 1: you're listening to Travis where we talk to people about

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Speaker 1: what works for them and their relationships and of course

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Speaker 1: what doesn't. Okay, So not to generalize, but the bond

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Speaker 1: that sisters have for each other is pretty indescribable. I've

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Speaker 1: said this before on the show, but my sister's pretty

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Speaker 1: much my life, my best friend. Today's very Special guests

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Speaker 1: have a sisterly connection that is on another level, to

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Speaker 1: the point where you may actually want to consider it

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Speaker 1: a superpower. Honestly, they are both award winning journalists because

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Speaker 1: you know that happens between two siblings. Lisa and Laura

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Speaker 1: Ling have always been aware that their line of work

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Speaker 1: does not always guarantee safety. But when Laura was detained

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and nine while reporting a story near

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Speaker 1: the Chinese North Korean border and sent into twelve years

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Speaker 1: of hard labor, Lisa sprung into such chills. Lisa sprung

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Speaker 1: into action and did not stop until her sister was released.

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Speaker 1: They detailed their experience in the two ten memoir that

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Speaker 1: they co wrote together, Somewhere Inside One Sister's Captivity in

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Speaker 1: North Korea and the others fight to bring her home

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Speaker 1: emotional story, grab hold of yourself. You both are the bravest,

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Speaker 1: most inspiring women who have truly proven how strong sistory

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Speaker 1: love can be. And we are certainly honored to have

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Speaker 1: you on the show, not only that we've known you

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Speaker 1: for so long that we really want to welcome you

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Speaker 1: to works for us. Thank you for being here. Lisa

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Speaker 1: and Laura Lange and my wife is crying over the show.

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Speaker 1: I think people don't know this. Some of my friends

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Speaker 1: here in LA don't know this, and I think some

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Speaker 1: people have the same reaction as they did when Lisa

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Speaker 1: and I first met. I was like, as like, Lisa

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Speaker 1: is one of my actual oldest friends, like basically from

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Speaker 1: when I met you almost babe, Like, um, we're talking

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Speaker 1: over twenty years probably, uh yeah, we've been over twenty years.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and it's it still amazes me how in

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Speaker 1: love you two are. I mean, at the time, over

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Speaker 1: twenty years ago, I'm like, how is it these two have?

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Speaker 1: They're so madly love and twenty more than twenty years later,

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Speaker 1: here you are and it's awesome. But I do want

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Speaker 1: to say that from the very start, I think when

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Speaker 1: people knew how close I was with Lisa and then Laura.

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Speaker 1: They would say really, they would always give me a

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Speaker 1: head tilt, and I'd be like, is that because you're

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Speaker 1: not known as most intellectual? Oh no, that's not just wondering.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a combination a combination of what we have,

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Speaker 1: very different personalities and different lifestyles. But Rachel has always

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Speaker 1: just been like the most loving, nurturing friend. And I

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Speaker 1: mean we would hang out every single night. Literally, It's

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Speaker 1: not like we hung out infrequently. We hung out every

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Speaker 1: single night every time. The stories that we could tell offline,

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Speaker 1: which we won't later later exactly exactly it would kind

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Speaker 1: of continue to confuse a lot of people, but you know,

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Speaker 1: it was what it was. But I do want to say,

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Speaker 1: which brings us to today and my fascination with both

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Speaker 1: of you, is that I think that the thing that

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Speaker 1: I always say to people about you and Laura would

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Speaker 1: be Okay, we would meet up after like a night out,

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Speaker 1: and hers would have been flying in from I don't know, Korea, Uganda,

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Speaker 1: like some prison somewhere, and I was coming in from

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Speaker 1: like a Mark Jacob's fashion show, and we would just

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Speaker 1: see talking and she'd be like, all right, let's go

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Speaker 1: to dinner. I'm like, are you okay? Okay, She's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's go. I'm like, who are you? So that brings

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Speaker 1: us to my continued fascination with both of you because

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Speaker 1: your sister bond is clearly like no other. But I

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Speaker 1: think the thing about works for us is no matter

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Speaker 1: what relationship we're talking about, we always like to start

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Speaker 1: at the beginning. Um, And I think the first question

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Speaker 1: would ask is like what was your childhood? Like I

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Speaker 1: have a better question, Oh God, do you remember the

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Speaker 1: first time you saw your sister? What you mean after

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Speaker 1: she returned? Like in life? Like in life, like how

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Speaker 1: do they meet? I don't remember the first time I

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Speaker 1: saw my would know that. Oh that's what I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to say. It's like what like she was brought home?

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Speaker 1: Like what we were thinking? Like, oh my god, well,

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Speaker 1: interesting question, like a sudden you know, I don't remember

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Speaker 1: the moment that I the first moment I saw because

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Speaker 1: I was only three, But I do remember trying to

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Speaker 1: pick her up and just hold her. I remember vividly

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Speaker 1: and like smelling you know that baby smell, Like I

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Speaker 1: I remember smelling my sister. Yeah, when she was a

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Speaker 1: tiny baby and there are photographs of me holding her,

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Speaker 1: like lots of photographs, and when no one was looking,

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Speaker 1: I remember going in and just holding her myself and

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Speaker 1: just like doting on her. And I'm getting emotional now

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Speaker 1: and just like showering her with love because you're like,

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Speaker 1: I do remember mine, She's mine, like she's my baby now,

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Speaker 1: Like it's it's such an incredible mine. My sisters both

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Speaker 1: basically told my mother that I was like the other

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Speaker 1: thing they ever saw, like to bring them back. I remember.

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Speaker 1: That sounds right, So that's that was a feedback. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like hers was very opposite. Yes, well you know

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Speaker 1: it wasn't. I wasn't the cutest I wasn't the cutest

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Speaker 1: looking baby, but Lisa still had the love for me.

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Speaker 1: Both going back to our childhood, you know, we and

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Speaker 1: the question Rachel about what it was like growing up.

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Speaker 1: Our parents were immigrant families and they worked all the time,

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Speaker 1: and so I think that Lisa really did kind of

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Speaker 1: take over this maternal role when it came to me,

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Speaker 1: and so that image of her sort of sniffing my head,

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Speaker 1: you know, it actually says a lot about our relationship

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Speaker 1: and how we've taken care of each other. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: got a divorce when I was seven and Laura was four,

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Speaker 1: and so I think that that that is another reason

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Speaker 1: why I sort of felt like I had to take

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Speaker 1: care of this little baby, this little girl. And and

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Speaker 1: I think where many siblings grow up having conflict or

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Speaker 1: fighting with each other, having these jealousies. Because my role

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Speaker 1: was older sister but also kind of strangely maternal at

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Speaker 1: the same time, Yeah, we never really had those issues.

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Speaker 1: And I think as a result, we've just become closer

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Speaker 1: than most siblings. I know. Sure like you felt like

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Speaker 1: an overwhelming responsibility for her. Basically not overwhelming in a

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Speaker 1: bad way, but like more than a sibling. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: just like, oh, she's my baby sister. It's like I

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Speaker 1: got her. It's you know, it's like they raised each other,

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Speaker 1: yeah you know, yeah yeah, yeah, like just fiercely, fiercely protective. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And it goes both ways. Lisa is the maternal one,

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Speaker 1: but she's actually the one. There were all reversed on

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Speaker 1: my sister and all the time, it's all the time.

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Speaker 1: Very often the baby kind of ends up babying the

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Speaker 1: older one. I think later in life that does happen

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Speaker 1: quite a bit, which is really funny, I do think, Um,

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Speaker 1: so it is ironic that you both kind of chose

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Speaker 1: a very similar path in life, you know, because my

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Speaker 1: sister and I are so different, We are so so close,

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Speaker 1: not that you aren't so different, but we definitely aren't

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Speaker 1: attracted to the same thing. Like if you throw us

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Speaker 1: the same thing, we'll both go a different way with

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Speaker 1: what it with with how we choose to either deal

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Speaker 1: with it tacolate. And obviously you guys are unique to yourselves,

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Speaker 1: but it is really you're the most like overachieving siblings.

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Speaker 1: I think. I possibly I've never in my life. Maybe well,

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Speaker 1: maybe they're so brilliant that they're actually underachievers. I know

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Speaker 1: them too long. They're definitely not under I mean, Rachel, Rachel,

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Speaker 1: I think no, Rachel, my virgo sister, you are a

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Speaker 1: bit of an overachiever, and like I honestly like, I

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Speaker 1: really don't know many people who who can juggle as

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Speaker 1: many balls and work as hard as you do. So

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Speaker 1: I think there's there's part of a Virgo thing to it.

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Speaker 1: But you know, for me, growing up in a in

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Speaker 1: a suburb of Sacramento called Carmichael, there weren't a lot

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Speaker 1: of Asians in our community at all. In fact, there

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Speaker 1: were probbubly five in our whole school, two of whom

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Speaker 1: had the same last name Hours. And you know, because

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Speaker 1: our parents were divorced and always working, the TV was

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Speaker 1: always on in our house. It was, you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of our favorite babysitter. And I used to have these

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Speaker 1: fantasies and somehow working in television so that I could,

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Speaker 1: you know, we could have a better life one day.

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Speaker 1: We didn't have a lot of money, but there was

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Speaker 1: no one who looked anything like us on television except

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Speaker 1: for Connie Chung. I was gonna say, yeah. And if

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Speaker 1: you ask any Asian journalist of my generation, male or female,

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Speaker 1: I would venture to guess that we will all say

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Speaker 1: that our inspiration was Connie Chung because she allowed us

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Speaker 1: to know what was possible. And so at a very

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Speaker 1: young age, I was just set on trying to become

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Speaker 1: like Connie Chung because again, she was the only person

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Speaker 1: who looked anything like me. Um. And I was lucky

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Speaker 1: enough to get a job working as a reporter when

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Speaker 1: I was eighteen years old for a show called Channel

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Speaker 1: one News that was seen in middle school in high schools. Yes, yes, Um,

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Speaker 1: Chris Whittle, Um Whittle communications ran yeah. Um, and that

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Speaker 1: show sent me all over the world to places that

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Speaker 1: in my wildest dreams I would never ever imagine going,

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Speaker 1: like Afghanistan and Iran and Kazakhstan and Colombia and India

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Speaker 1: and Iraq, all in my late teens and early twenties.

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Speaker 1: And it became less about just wanting to be on

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Speaker 1: TV and more about wanting to communicate stories to a

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Speaker 1: bigger audience. And it was infectious. I got all I

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Speaker 1: wanted to do is just be in the world and

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Speaker 1: tell these stories. And I think for Laura seeing my

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Speaker 1: passion for this, and I mean it was I was

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Speaker 1: talking about it non stop. It became infectious for her

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Speaker 1: just hearing me talk about my experiences and the things

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Speaker 1: that I was seeing in the world, right, Laura, Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean I definitely followed in Lisa's footsteps. For Lisa

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Speaker 1: and for me growing up and get Connie Chung was

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Speaker 1: the person that we all you know, wanted to be.

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Speaker 1: But for me, in some sense, it was I got

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Speaker 1: to see my sister out there, right, And I think

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Speaker 1: that that that was inspiring for me and made it

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Speaker 1: seem attainable. Also growing up in such a nine diverse community.

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Speaker 1: I mean I joked that I ended up at UCLA

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Speaker 1: the University of Caucasians lost amongst Asians, and so this

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Speaker 1: whole and it's it's so true, but it's so amazing

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Speaker 1: because this world of diversity really opens up to you

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Speaker 1: and you're able to see a larger world outside of

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Speaker 1: where you might have grown up and the stories that

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Speaker 1: people have, and just as Lisa said, it became infectious

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Speaker 1: in terms of wanting to explore a larger world than

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Speaker 1: to share those stories with other people. So I have

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Speaker 1: to two questions. Well, one for something I just took

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Speaker 1: away from that that was so interesting was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: when Kamalat became vice president, you saw how so many

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Speaker 1: girls said, now I know what's possible and listening to

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Speaker 1: you guys, using connye Tongue as this role model, and

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Speaker 1: she was the only one that you could see, and

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Speaker 1: how it immediately gave you the confidence to know that

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Speaker 1: you could do that. And had she not been there,

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Speaker 1: you might have thought to yourself, oh, that's not a

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Speaker 1: place that I could actually ever be in. Right, So

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Speaker 1: it just to me, like it's so amazing to hear firsthand,

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Speaker 1: like the impact that that one amazing woman had on

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Speaker 1: your life and drove you to want something because you

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Speaker 1: could see it, right, So I thought that was so incredible.

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Speaker 1: But that the other thing is, as you guys are talking,

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Speaker 1: and this is something I've always asked so over the years,

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Speaker 1: is are you ever scared? Because I am a scared person,

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Speaker 1: and like, I feel like you guys just don't have fear,

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Speaker 1: Like I mean, you're putting yourselves. Well we'll get into

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Speaker 1: that later, but I mean I just feel like when

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Speaker 1: you're when you're eighteen, nineteen, twenty years old and you're

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Speaker 1: going into these very often dangerous places, because what's going

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Speaker 1: through your head at that point? Because that is fascinating

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Speaker 1: to me. I don't know about Lisa, but I am

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Speaker 1: scared all the time, and not just when I'm in

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Speaker 1: a situation covering a story that might be in a

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Speaker 1: risky situation or sensitive situation. But I do think that

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Speaker 1: your fear helps to keep you safe, right because you

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Speaker 1: know lines that you shouldn't cross. Now, I know we

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Speaker 1: will talk about a line I did cross, yeah, But

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Speaker 1: generally I have always said that I'm not fearless. I'm

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Speaker 1: actually very fearful, and that has been what has kept

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Speaker 1: me safe for the most part in the past, but

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Speaker 1: also I'm fearful of all sorts of things, Like when

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Speaker 1: I do a lot of public speaking, I get nervous.

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Speaker 1: I know Lisa doesn't. It becomes very effortless for her.

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Speaker 1: But for me, I get nervous, I get butterflies. But

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Speaker 1: that sort of helps me prepare more so that yeah, yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: and I for me, I mean, yeah, there have been

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Speaker 1: moments in the field when I've been scared, absolutely, but

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Speaker 1: I also have always just had this insatiable curiosity and

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Speaker 1: I want to just know what's going on and I

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Speaker 1: and I like to dig and I for me, my

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Speaker 1: senses are heightened. And you know, I'm not an adrenaline

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Speaker 1: junkie by any means, but I love I love those

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Speaker 1: moments where I'm just seeing something different and new. It

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Speaker 1: makes me feel really alive. And I, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think we could go through our days just like in

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Speaker 1: a perfunctory way where every day is the same, like

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Speaker 1: you barely remember what you did yesterday and the day before,

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Speaker 1: and you don't meet you meet the same people or

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Speaker 1: you interact with the same people every day. And for me,

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Speaker 1: the work that I do has allowed me to remember

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Speaker 1: a lot of my days, and this desire to want

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Speaker 1: to try and remember as many days or remember things

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Speaker 1: that happened on as many days as I can is

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Speaker 1: something that I've always really appreciated doing. And so for me,

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Speaker 1: when I'm going out there into the world, even to

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Speaker 1: places that are considered contentious or dangerous, it's when when

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Speaker 1: my senses are heightened and I feel most alive, and

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Speaker 1: it's hard to compare that feeling to anything else. Interesting. Wow,

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Speaker 1: So I'm the exact the exact opposite. I try and

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Speaker 1: forget almost every day, and for me, if it's just

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Speaker 1: one big blar not true, I'd be happy. This podcast

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Speaker 1: is sponsored by better Help. Back in my styling days,

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Speaker 1: offer valid through June thirtieth. Terms and conditions apply. It

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00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,760
Speaker 1: just sounds too picture perfect, like she took care of

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Speaker 1: her she smelled her hair and her baby fresh freshness.

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Speaker 1: Then of course she was inspired. Did you ever like

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Speaker 1: go up for the same job and you're like, uh,

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00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,240
Speaker 1: because you know got it? Like what's up with it?

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Speaker 1: Like I have to have had that experience a little competition.

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Speaker 1: Come on, just tell me a little like a little

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Speaker 1: Roger's looking for like a nugget, just a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Uh lord, you have you felt that way? I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of it's it is kind of disgusting. And

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Speaker 1: how how supportive that damn pure perfect? They wrote a book, honey, Ben.

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Speaker 1: I mean Lisa and I have joked before that if

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Speaker 1: we were on a you know, you mean, you've had

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Speaker 1: this conversation like if you were on a boat and

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Speaker 1: your husband or your sister were drowning, who would you save? Oh? God,

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Speaker 1: you know it's you know what's interesting. Sorry, someone asked

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Speaker 1: me that question, and I actually like I just walked away.

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Speaker 1: I said, do you remember someone asking me that? Because

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Speaker 1: there was just like those are the questions You're just like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, there's there's no there's no there's no

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Speaker 1: way to ever win this. Okay. I think my husband

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Speaker 1: knows that he should start swimming. And that was that

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Speaker 1: was That was the second. That was the second. Partner,

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00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 1: My that was another question I want to ask. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's something that that you would ask,

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Speaker 1: but for our you know, obviously this isn't um, this

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Speaker 1: is radio more or less podcast. So your husband's do

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Speaker 1: they look alike? Like do you? Because your sisters and

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Speaker 1: you both like journalism and you both still live in California,

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Speaker 1: and I think now husband's totally different, Like what's the story?

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Speaker 1: Uh there? Which one? Which husband's better? Like which is

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Speaker 1: let's just let's just lay it out there, like which

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Speaker 1: one's better? This is Roger like making up what this

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Speaker 1: is like for his selfishness, he just I don't even

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Speaker 1: know what I'm just interested in. That's so funny. So

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Speaker 1: our husbands, you know, they're both tall and fit guys

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Speaker 1: both obviously you don't have to keep up with you guys.

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Speaker 1: You guys are very fit, by the ways, like crazy mounts.

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Speaker 1: Do you not follow them? Well, well, they they're both

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Speaker 1: older than us. Paul's eight years older than me, Mars,

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00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 1: how old? How much older than you? Laura? And and

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Speaker 1: Laura's husband is like super smart. Sorry, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: the husbands. The husbands are insanely smart. But they're smart

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Speaker 1: for marrying younger women, is what I'm trying to say.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying that. Well, intellectually, they're they're they're they're

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Speaker 1: way smarter than we are. Laura. Laura's husband is a

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Speaker 1: is a mathematician, of course. I mean, I mean, did

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Speaker 1: you you got anything else? You have to see the

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Speaker 1: books that he reads in his spare time, Laura throw

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Speaker 1: throw like a couple of the names of the books

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Speaker 1: that he reads. I picked them up and I can't

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Speaker 1: even understand a single sentence in the book, like like

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Speaker 1: prime obsession. It sounds really steamy and juicy, but it

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00:22:55,840 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 1: is about prime numbers. You guys, I cannot wait to

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Speaker 1: see your offspring, like what happens? I mean, I can't

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00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: even I literally can't even imagine. Both of our husbands

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00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 1: are are total nerds, but they're kind of like they're

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00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 1: both but they're cool, kind of hot. Like right, Laura's

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00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 1: husband is like this surfer you know, Australian, British, you know,

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00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 1: Tatician guy, mathematician. Laura, can you write a book about that?

385
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Speaker 1: Because I know a lot of girls that would like

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00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: to meet a guy just like that, Actually a surfing

387
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: at brilliant that's insane, that doesn't exist, does it? All right?

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry it's on the show. He's an anomaly. He's

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00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 1: an anomaly. No, I love it. Let's get some more

390
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 1: serious topic, okay, okay, okay, all right, but in all seriousness, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So you guys have traveled obviously everywhere pretty much, I

392
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Speaker 1: would imagine um, and obviously you've taken on insanely difficult,

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, terrifying assignments. But in all honesty, Lisa,

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Speaker 1: when you heard that Laura was going to do a

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00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 1: story near the Chinese North Korean border, like, were you nervous?

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00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 1: Did you tell her not to go? Or were you like,

397
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: I'm really jealous because I I want to go, because

398
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: knowing you, you probably were like like running the mill

399
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: story that you didn't think anything would happen. Wow, Well, yeah,

400
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: I was certainly curious about that story because we've both

401
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 1: been fascinated by North Korea forever, because the least is

402
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 1: known about it, But when she told me about it,

403
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 1: I wasn't concerned at all. I mean, keep in mind

404
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: that Laura had just been in Mexico working on a

405
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: story about all of the killings that were happening there,

406
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: all the drug related killings, like a couple weeks ago,

407
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,719
Speaker 1: and I was terrified and I was so mad that

408
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 1: she went and did that because you know, she was

409
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: ensued at Huara's, which is incredibly dangerous. And when she

410
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: set off to go to China, there was never any

411
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 1: attention intention to cross the China North Korean border. She

412
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 1: was just going to do a story on refuge jeeves

413
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: who had crossed over into China. And so when I

414
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: got that call from Laura's husband in the middle of

415
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: the night saying that Laura had been detained by North

416
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: Korean soldiers, I was like completely astounded and appalled. So

417
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 1: did you were you over the line or did they

418
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: just come in and get you or hold on? Were

419
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: you just like, oh, no, one could see visually, But

420
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Speaker 1: were you like I'm here. You know, when you played

421
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: that game, you're like, oh, I'm in the state. Nope,

422
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 1: I'm in the state. Nope, I'm in the state. Nope,

423
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: I'm not Did you like that? And they just grabbed

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00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: at anything today at you guys. He's really hard. When

425
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 1: you were over there, they just grabbed like my son

426
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: does that? You know, like, okay, but this is different. Okay, sorry, Laura.

427
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: We did not play because it would have been different

428
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: than what happened. Yeah, but you know, I mean, there

429
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: was no intention to cross into North Korea. We were

430
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 1: doing a story on North Korean defectors, um primarily women

431
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 1: who are trafficked out of North Korea from one horrible

432
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: situation and to another desperate situation into China. But that morning,

433
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: when we were on the Tuman River, which was frozen

434
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 1: at the time, we did step foot onto that frozen ice.

435
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: So that is a prime area for trafficking, especially during

436
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: the winter, when people do not have to wade across

437
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: that water. They can walk across the ice, so it's

438
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: it's sort of like prime season for trafficking. And while

439
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,479
Speaker 1: we were on that ice, our guide or our fixer

440
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 1: who we had hired, who was local to the region,

441
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: proceeded to walk across to the other side. And you

442
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: have to remember that, you know, while China and I

443
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: mean sorry, North Korea and South Korea have one of

444
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: the most heavily fortified borders in the world, the border

445
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: between North Korea and China is relatively porous. There's not

446
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: you know, there's not your checkpoints, there's not even a

447
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 1: line of really demarcation. It's the river that demarcates the border.

448
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: And so our guide was motioning for us to follow him,

449
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 1: to walk farther across that ice, and we did well,

450
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 1: we did. We walked across. He pointed out a village

451
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,479
Speaker 1: on the other Yeah, and he pointed out a village

452
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: on the other side. We got a few shots, we

453
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: turned around and we left. Was I nervous, Yeah, I

454
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: was nervous. But I think that I did might drop

455
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: my guard? Well, yeah, and Rogers said it. It It was.

456
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: It was a paid guide who had worked with media before.

457
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: All of us journalists who work overseas, we always hire

458
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 1: fixers to help us, right, So so Laura Laura and

459
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: her team trusted the guide. But we have reason to

460
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: believe that that guide was actually getting paid by the

461
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: North Korean government. I mean, Laura Laura and her colleagues

462
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: were working for a company that was co owned by

463
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 1: the former Vice President of the United States, Al Gore,

464
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: and so they knew that these were high level targets

465
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 1: who were on the work Listen. Sure that there are

466
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: those allegations, but I like, when I think about what happened,

467
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: I just have to think about what I know, And

468
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: what I know is that I dropped my guard. My

469
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: instincts failed me. I chose to follow our guide. No

470
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 1: one was forcing me to follow him, and sometimes you

471
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 1: can take as many precautions, you can try to take

472
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: all the precautions in the world. But but in that moment,

473
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: sure mistakes happened. I followed him and we were walking

474
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: back to the other side and it was about about

475
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: halfway across when we heard soldiers running and we turned around.

476
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: There were two North Korean soldiers with their rifles raised.

477
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: Eventually they were able to apprehend me and my colleague

478
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: when we were in China and pretty violently beat us

479
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: to drag us to the side. All right, I'm with you,

480
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: shouldn't do these things anymore. Over them, you guys are

481
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,479
Speaker 1: cover like whether the zoning commission is going to approve

482
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: it you more. We don't want you to do this anymore.

483
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: But here's the thing, but now you probably even want

484
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: to do it more because that's just how you guys

485
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: are built. And I think that's what makes you both

486
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: just so. This is why I call you superpower superwomen,

487
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: And that was one of the many reasons we wanted

488
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: to have you on because you're two of the most fearless.

489
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: You basically raised yourselves and you just what you accomplished

490
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: by the daily your relationship as sisters is unparalleled. And

491
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: I think, now, after what happened to Laura, I think, Lisa,

492
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: how to obviously you'll stop it nothing, But how did

493
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: you know how to go? Yeah? You got this phone call? Like,

494
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: can we go back to the story. This is a

495
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: good story in the middle of home light? No, I

496
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: do you got this story in the middle of the night,

497
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 1: and like what you do? You're like, uh, like what, Well,

498
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a whole it's a whole, a whole thing. Well,

499
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: just like but but but the first thing that I

500
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: did was I called my mom because my mom speaks

501
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: Mandarin Chinese, and we knew that we had to get

502
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: in touch with the Chinese embassy because again we didn't

503
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: know anything about what happened. Uh, you know, we her

504
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,719
Speaker 1: her husband told me that she had been abducted by

505
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: North Korean soldiers and was in North Korea. But I

506
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: believed that I always thought she was just going to

507
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: be in China. So it was a it was a

508
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: pretty it was just a harrowing few months. And because

509
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: North Korea is a country with which the United States

510
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: has absolutely no relationship, you can't just pick up the

511
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: phone and call them to try and negotiate the release.

512
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: You have to you have to interact with intermediary countries

513
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: in order to communicate to UH to get messages right,

514
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: And so we had to use the Swedish embassy see

515
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: in North Korea. So we would send packages, we would

516
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: try and communicate with the ambassador to try and get

517
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: messages to Laura and to her captors. And this went

518
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: on for months. And what complicated the situation even more

519
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: is that I had actually reported inside North Korea undercover

520
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:22,719
Speaker 1: a couple of years before, and so, I know, I know, like,

521
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: who would have ever thought that my sister, you know,

522
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: I was, I was already person and not me in

523
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: that country. So so Laura though convinced her captors after

524
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: months of you know, they're not being any movement, that

525
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: if her captors, if Laura were allowed to get in

526
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: contact with me, we could try to make something happen,

527
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: meaning that given the delicate relationship between the US and

528
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: North Korea, we could somehow navigate like a media strategy

529
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: and figure out how to do this in a way

530
00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: that allows North Korea to look like they one, you know,

531
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: we're we're we're showing mercy right that that that that

532
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: there would be no like loss of face for the

533
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: North Korean That's kind of that's that's kind of like

534
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: the plan that was hatched that we we meticulously sort

535
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: of orchestrated from two different continents over the course of

536
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: a couple of different phone calls. And then and then

537
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: another one of my heroes, um our heroes, who we

538
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: were lucky enough to see get inaugurated actually when we

539
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: were in college. Um, President, well, former president President, I

540
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: guess you still president? Title for life? Well, hoping someone

541
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: doesn't have that title for life. Um President Bill Clinton

542
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: ended up which is like almost sounds right out of

543
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: a dream, um, actually ended up traveling to negotiate your

544
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: release as a humanitarian mission. So I mean that is

545
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: I mean, you have you guys have a story to tell, Laura,

546
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: you have your children and your grandchildren. Yes, but this

547
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: is something that like your kids, I mean, you know,

548
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: Skyler's been through a bunch of things, just whatever. And

549
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: the first thing people say is, well, you have a

550
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: great essay to write in school, your kids, your grandkids.

551
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: For our listeners, who forgot they did document this harrowing

552
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: story in somewhere inside one sister's captivity in North Korea

553
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: and the others fight to bring her home. I'm sure

554
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: definitely not another book. Sure you could buy it on

555
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: all sorts of More importantly, who I want to know

556
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: who's representing the movie right now? They have people obviously, Laura,

557
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: you can answer that. You know. You know, when when

558
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: I came home writing the book, super sure cathartic, it

559
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: was just to be able to document that in my

560
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: own words with my sister, because you know, Lisa knew

561
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: what was happening on the other side. I I didn't,

562
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: and so for us to do that together after after

563
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: being separated in this way, we actually we would write

564
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: on laptops on our couch with a blanket covering like

565
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: both of our legs or vodka. Yeah it out, Yeah, exactly.

566
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: It was. It was a really you know, special and

567
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 1: cathartic time. But that's sort of where I wanted to

568
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: tell the story in that medium and in some sense

569
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 1: of chapter understand yeah and so and so we were

570
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: able to do that. I'm really glad that we did.

571
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: But I don't really feel like it needs to be

572
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,359
Speaker 1: told in any other or another way of saying it.

573
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 1: I just think another way of seeing it. The offer

574
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 1: hasn't been high enough. I just think let's just cut

575
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: through it. I mean, Okay, if someone says, you know,

576
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 1: one hundred million for the story, we're gonna be like, dot,

577
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: let's retell it. Sorry. Well, what I was going to

578
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: say is I do hope people read it because you know,

579
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: like when you think about North Korea, right, you think

580
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 1: about what the people are like and the conditions that

581
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 1: they have to live under. But you know, Laura actually

582
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: got a pretty unique window into that world, and I

583
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: hope people will read it because her interactions with normal

584
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: people or with that system, I think are very telling

585
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: of what what what that country is like. Sure sounds

586
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: like a place I don't want to go, Yeah, you

587
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 1: definitely don't don't want to go. Yeah, but but we

588
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: I also tried to really highlight the moments of humanity

589
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: that I experienced between two people that are very different

590
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,919
Speaker 1: to countries that are considered enemies, and to be able

591
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: to break down some of those barriers, those preconceived notions

592
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: that both sides have, and to in some sense, you know,

593
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: communicate and see the humanity that we both share. I

594
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 1: really wanted to make sure that came out of Wait, Roger,

595
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: you would if you if you had an opportunity and

596
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: you were guaranteed that you wouldn't be detained or held captive.

597
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: You wouldn't want to see what that country would like.

598
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,600
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641
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,680
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642
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Speaker 1: is chosen for your fit and your life, and it's

643
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644
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Speaker 1: feel your absolute best. A service like Fix works so

645
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Speaker 1: well for someone like Roger because he never has the

646
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: patients to shop. He loves how quick and easy the

647
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Speaker 1: process is. Tryump pieces at home before you buy, keep

648
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Speaker 1: only what you love, and return what you don't. Stitch

649
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Speaker 1: Fix has free shipping, easy returns and exchanges, and a

650
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:22,600
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651
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: can try stitch Fix once or set up automatic deliveries.

652
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: You'll pay just a twenty dollars styling fee for each box,

653
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654
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,319
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655
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: steal and there are no hidden fees ever. This is genius.

656
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: Stitch Fix has styles and clothing to fit any occasion

657
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Speaker 1: for women, men, and kids. So if you have kids

658
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Speaker 1: or husbands that don't like to shop like me, stitch

659
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660
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: all over the US, and they're available in the UK

661
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: as well. So get started today at stitch fix dot

662
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663
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: when you keep everything in your fix that stitch fix

664
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 1: dot com slash though for twenty five percent off when

665
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: you keep everything in your fix stitch fix dot com

666
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: slash though. I love how she put posses that to

667
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 1: Roger rather than me. Well because long enough. Yeah, But

668
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: what she doesn't know is she doesn't me that well.

669
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: You know what I would do a day trip, And

670
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,879
Speaker 1: the reason why is I'm really not looking to get

671
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: like pinned down, like what am I doing that night?

672
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,919
Speaker 1: The hotels are probably not really very good. I want

673
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: like marble bathrobes, bathrooms like marble, you know, marble bathrooms,

674
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: basically saying Lucy, you might be a little fancy. At

675
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 1: this point, it is days of dead shows on so

676
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: I think my answer is I'd absorb it for a

677
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: little while. But I know I'm I'm not. I do

678
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: not have that desire. I really don't, and I don't

679
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: know why. I guess I'm like a heathen or a

680
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 1: simpleton or something like that. Which is fine. Now, you

681
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: actually had some he had to really horrifying like things

682
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: happen that involved children this year where he ended up

683
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: no no, no. But what I'm saying about no, no, no,

684
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: no no no, no, horrifying where he was put in

685
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: a situation. I think what I realized is both of

686
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: us we conflict is something that like you guys kind

687
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: of have this I think in like an absolutely unparalleled

688
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 1: desire to almost like run towards conflict and like learn

689
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: about it, try and solve it, try, and you just

690
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: have a constant like more for that. No, I think

691
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 1: it's different. I think I think that you're a very

692
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 1: curious person. You are, But I'm also I'm very into

693
00:41:55,760 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: self preservation and literally I'm being got into self Listen.

694
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: I'm different. Listen. The reality is is, of course it's

695
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 1: super interesting. I guess where I get my you know,

696
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: he wants to watch you do that No, it's not that.

697
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:11,800
Speaker 1: It's like, at the end of the day, this is

698
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: how you know, it's intellectually stimulating for them. That's why

699
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: they're doing it, right, It's something that they're doing it

700
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: because it's oh yeah, well just I mean for me,

701
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: it's it's it's just like this intense curiosity and like

702
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 1: I will go, you know. I mean now with kids,

703
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: we're less inclined to do things that you know that

704
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,800
Speaker 1: might consider really crazy. But like I want to go everywhere,

705
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 1: I want to see everything, i want to experience it all,

706
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: and I'm so envious of that life the France, most

707
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: of them resorts. No. But the truth is, I do

708
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 1: want to say to that he's obsessed with watching things

709
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: like what you're doing and the like. That's the difference.

710
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 1: Like he does want to he wants to learn, he

711
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: wants to be there, he wants to watch documentaries, He

712
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: and and really like very real things, the things that

713
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: you guys do and cover and seek and whatever. And

714
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,280
Speaker 1: I think, but there's a difference to people who actually

715
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,760
Speaker 1: do it and people who actually watch it, Right, Rachel,

716
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: you might find this interesting. In one of my conversations

717
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 1: with my guards, Um, they you know, we think of

718
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,439
Speaker 1: North Korea as being such a closed off place, but

719
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,879
Speaker 1: information does seep through. And my guards they were really

720
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 1: curious to know about like fashion in the US. And

721
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 1: they they said, you know, they asked me, do you

722
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,919
Speaker 1: wear blue jeans? Because we're not allowed to wear blue

723
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,879
Speaker 1: jeans in North Korea, but they thought that they would

724
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 1: look pretty good on men or women and men women

725
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 1: wow wow um. And and so again there's those common

726
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: just like common moments of humanity that we shared that

727
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 1: had nothing to do about color. You got to meet

728
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:55,760
Speaker 1: my friend Rachel, how did you communicate? There was always

729
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: a guard assigned to me that spoke at least a

730
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: little bit of English. Yeah. And when I was in Korea,

731
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: I had smuggled in a fashion magazine from China. I

732
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: didn't intentionally smuggle it in, It was in my bag, right,

733
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: And one of my escorts said to me, do not

734
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: take that out of your bag because we don't want

735
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: to We don't want North Koreans to see that and

736
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 1: give them ideas. Yeah. So I mean, you know, it

737
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: was like a Chinese vogue. Yeah. Last week they just

738
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 1: ass week, they just created like more no internet. You know,

739
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: they they're going the other way. Yeah, they're trying hard

740
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: to to to close off the country more than ever soever.

741
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 1: People don't get ideas. Yeah, it's it's nut. So so

742
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 1: I envision have you ever guys seen about a boy

743
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: when they come in the airport and they like, get

744
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: you reunited and they're playing that music, Are you thinking

745
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: of love? Actually? It's love actually? And that happy you

746
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: know in the whole opening and then the ending when

747
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: everybody's like creating their loved ones in the airports, the

748
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: family the cuts. Roger wants to know. We want to

749
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 1: know your reuniting moment. Do you have to fly like

750
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: a million jets? Like did you get like a military

751
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: jets sent to you, Laura, we've flown out of the

752
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:16,320
Speaker 1: jet or like an Apache helicopter. No, it was actually

753
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: a donated plane um from Steve Bing, who who was

754
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: gracious enough to donate plane um. Yeah. Yeah. And because

755
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 1: this was even though it was approved by the Obama administration,

756
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 1: it was a it had to be a purely private

757
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: unders trip and it didn't have to be. But we

758
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 1: just didn't want taxpayers to pay of the bill. And

759
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 1: so Steve Bing so generously, he was very close friends

760
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: with President Clinton, donated his plane for President Clinton and

761
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 1: his team to go into the most isolated country in

762
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: the world. Unbelievable. Believable. Yeah, and so um when we returned,

763
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 1: the plane landed at Burbank Airport, and it was you know,

764
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 1: it was the happiest time in my life to be

765
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: able to see my family. It was also it was

766
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 1: also pretty overwhelming. So I was, you know, all of

767
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 1: a sudden, there were you know, dozens and dozens of

768
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: news reporters waiting to hear from us, and I had

769
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: gone to report on a story and then the story

770
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 1: was very difficult. But obviously, I mean, seeing my sister,

771
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: my family was the happiest moment in my life. I

772
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,879
Speaker 1: also saw how much stress I could see how much

773
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: my parents had aged. Um, I could see a certain

774
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: blank look in my dad's eyes that I just felt

775
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 1: responsible and we I mean, look, we hadn't seen her,

776
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: Laura for five months. And I mean, even if you

777
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: get incarcerated in a prison here in the United States,

778
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: like you can get visitors. Of course, we had no

779
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: clue what kind of conditions she was staying. Like, we

780
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: had no idea that that she was beat up. You know,

781
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: she got a rifle butt to the head, um, you know,

782
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: five months before we saw her, so we had no clue,

783
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 1: so we didn't know what kind of condition she was in.

784
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: So obviously when she and her colleague, um, you know,

785
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 1: descended the steps of the plane, we were like so

786
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,959
Speaker 1: relieved to see that they looked finely, very pale, because

787
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 1: they hadn't seen the light of day literally in five months,

788
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 1: but they looked like they you know, we were okay, well,

789
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 1: this this is a very good sisterly bond story because

790
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:39,359
Speaker 1: on the plane ride back, Lisa had sent a package

791
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 1: with Freds Dae Clinton and his team, and in there

792
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:51,240
Speaker 1: were tweasing thank you. Of course, of course I love

793
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: you so much. See that's my girl. This is why

794
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 1: we're friends, exactly the ends. We got to take care

795
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,320
Speaker 1: of our people. But I you guys are both mothers,

796
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 1: your wives your incredible. Tell me about your kids because

797
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 1: obviously I'm sure your kids are very close to each other. Right,

798
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 1: So Laura, you have a boy and a girl. Yes,

799
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 1: I have an eleven year old daughter and a seven

800
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 1: year old son. And your son, my son, my little

801
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 1: one is kikaius or kai and also born December. He's

802
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 1: born December twenty second, twenty thirteen and yours. I think

803
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 1: I read his eighteen right just a few days. Yes,

804
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 1: and I love his older name and and ling, Yes,

805
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: how to have a urson there? Her daughter, her older daughter.

806
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 1: Her name is Lee Jefferson Clayton. And then Jefferson is

807
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: William Jefferson Clinton's middle name. But the Lee actually, so

808
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 1: her first name, Lee is after my sister because I

809
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 1: always call Lisa Lee and and then Ellen I, so

810
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 1: it's just spelled Ellen I, which Laura I for I

811
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: and my husband. So a lot of meaning in her name.

812
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 1: But I don't want to discount, you know, I mean

813
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,839
Speaker 1: President Clinton. You know, we referred to him as our

814
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 1: rescuer in chief. But um, you know, Vice President al Gore,

815
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: who was my boss at the Passion and the co

816
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 1: founder of Current TV, the cable channel that I worked

817
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 1: for at the time, was so hugely instrumental and he

818
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,959
Speaker 1: worked behind the scenes, you know, tirelessly to help bring

819
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 1: us home. And so I felt a little awkward when

820
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 1: he called me to congratulate me on Lee's birth and

821
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 1: he said, I love her middle name, and I just said,

822
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 1: Albert just doesn't have the scene. No, not so much.

823
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: So grateful to Vice President cor I cannot wait to

824
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: see what else. I don't even know what else you

825
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: guys could do in this life, but I'm sure you're

826
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:52,800
Speaker 1: going to blow us away in a million other ways.

827
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 1: But I also can't wait to see what your children do.

828
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 1: You well, Rachel, and you and Roger will get to

829
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: know my kids because they're all going to be the same. Yeah,

830
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 1: our listeners should know that Lisa and I am not

831
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: going to say what school, but I would say that

832
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:10,280
Speaker 1: her life goes in this massive circle sometimes. And Lisa

833
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 1: and I, who met in New York then twenty something

834
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: years later, found each other again in La and now

835
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 1: our children will be in the same school and we

836
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 1: will actually be school parents together, which for me is

837
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 1: like one of the greatest things ever. Because well, and Rachel,

838
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:31,839
Speaker 1: you'll love my eldest because she's all about fashion and

839
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 1: today anyone see in her artwork, I think Larry needs

840
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: to do it. And we know it's funny because today

841
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: today it was her first day of tennis tennis camp,

842
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: and I got her this little tennis outfit and the

843
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 1: moment she put it on, she's like, I can do this,

844
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 1: like loved like she quit taekwondo because she hated the outfit,

845
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 1: but Tennis, she was like, oh, I can do this,

846
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,040
Speaker 1: so you're you and you and my eldest daughter. I

847
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: cannot wait because I kind of chop everyone else's daughters. So,

848
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 1: you know, so other than you know, all this journalism stuff,

849
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 1: you do, what do you do for fun? Do? What's

850
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 1: actually not? Like? What do you guys go away and

851
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: for fun? You go like sisters? Uh no, felt Mexico.

852
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 1: What happens? Do you like shut down? And yeah, we

853
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: we take our families. I mean, we drink a lot,

854
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:35,279
Speaker 1: and I'm like coming to our families just you know,

855
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:39,399
Speaker 1: our kids are best friends and love each other. So yeah,

856
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:41,399
Speaker 1: we like to take a lot of trips together. In fact,

857
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:44,439
Speaker 1: we were just together over the weekend in Sacramento visiting

858
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 1: our dad, and even though we really didn't do anything,

859
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:50,919
Speaker 1: we had the best time fun. And I mean Laura

860
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 1: and I we we probably talk on the phone about

861
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 1: five times a day, even if we're just saying nothing.

862
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 1: By the way, my sister ide, that's what yeah, like, hey,

863
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 1: how you doing? How are you? No? No exactly, I

864
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,319
Speaker 1: said to Roger, like it's so funny, like I don't

865
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 1: even know what we talk about. It's like I got

866
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:08,880
Speaker 1: in the car and I'm like, hey, hey, hey, hi

867
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 1: what Okay, I'm on my way here. Okay, bye, I'll

868
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 1: call you later. Okay, let's just stop him nothing. That's

869
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 1: what we do multiple times a day. Yeah, but we

870
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 1: we we usually take every year, you know, a couple

871
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:22,360
Speaker 1: of trips together. Okay, So I think we should go

872
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,239
Speaker 1: to our game show. I think we should. All right, guys,

873
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:26,839
Speaker 1: So we're gonna We're gonna let you guys go back

874
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 1: to your insanely insane lives, productive, insanely insane, productive lives. Um. Okay,

875
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: So this is a little bit like Newlyweds, except with sisters,

876
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 1: so which you guys will probably answer it better than

877
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 1: newlyweds quite frankly. But it's basically you answer for each other. Okay. So, Lisa,

878
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 1: what would be Laura's last meal? Um, probably my my

879
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:58,479
Speaker 1: mom's soup, some kind of soup, okay, super girl, Yeah Laura,

880
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:03,760
Speaker 1: what would Lisa's be? Oh, Lisa's would be something super spicy,

881
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: like spicy. Yeah. Yeah, Roger's just really happy. Roger's definitely

882
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 1: ordering that tonight. All right, So I'm going to ask

883
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 1: a question, is it your favorite? Well, it is, I

884
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 1: kind of want to ask. You can ask that one.

885
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 1: It's fine, I'll ask more of a whatever. Okay, Lisa,

886
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: if you were to argue with your sister, what would

887
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: it be about that she's not spending enough time with me?

888
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:27,479
Speaker 1: Then when she comes to La she goes and hangs

889
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 1: out with her other friends. See sisters, this is the

890
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:36,360
Speaker 1: same thing. I'm It's so funny. That was an argument

891
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,800
Speaker 1: that we got into because I didn't spend every second

892
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 1: with Lisa Virgo. We're very much alike. Yes, Rachel's gets

893
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 1: pissed off of Pamela twenty four seven. With her, it's

894
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 1: like you your whole life. But the other argument that

895
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 1: we got into was who was going to pay the bill?

896
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 1: Because Lisa is always paying the bill and I think

897
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 1: almost got into a punching match. We have tried to

898
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 1: pay the bills. It's like an older sibling. It almost

899
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: it almost got I'm the big sister. That's what I'm

900
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:10,320
Speaker 1: supposed to do. Yeah, that's cute. Okay, this one I

901
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: already know, but I'm still going to ask it for

902
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 1: our listeners. Um okay, um. Who would be more hungover

903
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:24,359
Speaker 1: after our wedding? Uh? Probably Laura because I can hold

904
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:29,760
Speaker 1: my alcohol. I don't know the good during the pandemic.

905
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 1: I just first saw our flam it every night, so

906
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,439
Speaker 1: I have developed a pretty high tolerance. So I would

907
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:38,239
Speaker 1: definitely say Laura, I think everyone has this. Yeah, Okay.

908
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,320
Speaker 1: One of our fan favorites is if Lisa was arrested,

909
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 1: what would it be for? We kind of already know yours,

910
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 1: but you'll have to think of another another one for Laura, Okay.

911
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 1: I mean I think Lisa's is probably you know, being

912
00:54:56,239 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 1: at some social justice movement a city, like yeah, yeah,

913
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 1: that sounds about okay. Other than other than crossing borders,

914
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 1: what would um Laura be arrested for? Um? Probably some

915
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 1: kind of like temper tantrum related thing, because like a

916
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 1: TSA for nopparent reason. Yeah, she has kind of an

917
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: explosive temper, and whenever, whenever she kind of loses it,

918
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 1: my retort is always like, well, you could be in

919
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 1: North Korea. It's like, oh yeah, good point, good point.

920
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 1: You can literally use that forever, by the way you're

921
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 1: going to take to everything anyway. I love that we

922
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:37,480
Speaker 1: can look back on it now, and I love that

923
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 1: you guys are living the most beautiful lives and you're

924
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 1: both brilliant, courageous, fearless, and so young. They're always literally

925
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 1: saw Lisa. I was like, I don't understand. You look

926
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: this same as you did when I met you. I'm

927
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 1: so con by the way. I have a picture of

928
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 1: us from twenty years ago. I need to find this

929
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 1: because yeah, I'll give you photo of approval first, of course,

930
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:04,799
Speaker 1: oh please, but I'll set it to you. I think

931
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,720
Speaker 1: Sam's in it, Nicole's in it. I love that picture,

932
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:10,800
Speaker 1: our old home girl. I need that. I need that

933
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 1: God life. We get a bunch of pictures now and

934
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 1: then all right, well, I love you guys madly. Laura.

935
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 1: I'm so happy you're here, alive, happy, healthy, married to

936
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 1: like a gorgeous, smart surfer and have two beautiful children.

937
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:28,320
Speaker 1: And Lisa, there's no one that I would want to

938
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 1: come in and try and save me from wherever I

939
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 1: was stuck behind the curtain at a fashion show in

940
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 1: the back of gut knows where we expect we got

941
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 1: to be saved. Yeah, we expect to be saved in

942
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 1: school next year. So you need to navigate. I got you,

943
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 1: I got your back. The inevitable field mine fields, that

944
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:52,840
Speaker 1: private school in Los Angeles. All right, my favorite, my

945
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 1: favorite fearless sisters. I love you both madly. Thank you

946
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 1: so thank you for you guys. Thanks guys, love you

947
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 1: both too. What do I even say about? What can

948
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 1: you imagine if you were like the mom and dad

949
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 1: of Lisa and Laura Lang and like, what do you hey? Like? What? Like?

950
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: They're like, I mean, you won't even let Skyler play

951
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 1: flag football. I'm okay with flag just not regular football. Yeah,

952
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 1: but you don't really want to. Didn't you tell him

953
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 1: you didn't want bike riding because we're going away? Listen,

954
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: get hurt? Do you know what I'm like, Rachel, it's

955
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 1: a bike riding. Can I just tell you something? You know,

956
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: all these fun and games until like all of a sudden,

957
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 1: Remember when Skyler's best friended it up in the hospital,

958
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 1: like the first month of COVID and had like twenty

959
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 1: pins in his arms. And well they can't, yes, And

960
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:48,760
Speaker 1: I don't keep them in a bubble though i'd like to.

961
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 1: I'd love to have them in full metal gear at

962
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:54,920
Speaker 1: all times, but still until they're eighteen, I would like

963
00:57:55,080 --> 00:58:00,080
Speaker 1: to really try and you know, limit their risk as

964
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 1: much as possible. But I feel like with Lisa and

965
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 1: Laura it's like, what do you even because what they're

966
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 1: doing is so incredible. It's like I think as a parent,

967
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 1: you're sort of like, Okay, don't want you to go.

968
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I'm so proud of all

969
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 1: they got to be incredibly proud. That's what I'm saying.

970
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: It's it's conflicting. It's like I don't know, just from

971
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 1: where I sit, like I'd be the proudest parents ever,

972
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:26,959
Speaker 1: but at the same time, I would probably never close

973
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 1: my eyes, you know, because I'd be terrified of where

974
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 1: they are. And you know, you have to admit, like

975
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:37,600
Speaker 1: as a dad, like I don't care what you say,

976
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 1: you would be much more neurotic and terrified if you

977
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 1: had a daughter going into these places. Your son. It's

978
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 1: just it's just human nature. But even I mean, we

979
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:51,960
Speaker 1: were talking about when jeffin Inger were on the on

980
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 1: the program. I mean, he's a race car driver and

981
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 1: the same thing. You know, how do you deal with

982
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 1: that fear every time? And I think it's a similar thing.

983
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 1: It's as part of the job. Maybe I don't know,

984
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 1: it's not for me. As we talked about, I'm thinking

985
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:10,920
Speaker 1: south of France and you know, southern Italy. But I

986
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 1: will say this, when you talk to them, I think

987
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 1: like really hearing what motivates them and what actually inspired

988
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 1: them to start. For me was like just like I

989
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 1: was glued to everything they were saying. Yeah, And honestly,

990
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 1: it's sort of like it goes back to it's almost

991
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:29,960
Speaker 1: like your career age. You know, you're really good at

992
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 1: it because you really loved it, and really, you know,

993
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 1: we're obsessed with getting the best dress, having the best

994
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 1: you know, image out there for your clients. And in

995
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 1: a weird way, they're obsessed with that story and that

996
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 1: learning and that everything, and it's they're not you know,

997
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: it's funny. They're not doing it for anyone else. That's

998
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 1: my point. They were then, they probably wouldn't be that good,

999
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 1: and they probably wouldn't risk what they're risking. But they're

1000
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 1: kind of doing it because they want to know themselves.

1001
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:58,919
Speaker 1: It's the motivated That's what I'm saying. Their intellectual curiosity

1002
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 1: it's like knows no bounds and or it's called boundless

1003
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 1: it is. But I will say this, I think, even

1004
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 1: especially over COVID and over the last couple of years,

1005
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 1: like you're watching these journalists go into these territories, and

1006
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 1: I know, even since I was little, I used to

1007
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 1: be like, wait, how are they safe in that zone?

1008
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 1: Or even when we have these crazy fires here and

1009
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 1: you see the like the journalists reporting and there's like

1010
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: a fire like you know, fifty feet behind them, and

1011
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:30,480
Speaker 1: you're like, get out of there. It's the same thing.

1012
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 1: So I actually am incredibly even more blown away, having

1013
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 1: known prior to talking to them, having known them for

1014
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 1: a million years, having been close with Lisa for so long,

1015
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 1: having known how kind of regular human she is off duty.

1016
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 1: I think it's incredible how you can go from being

1017
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 1: like mom dropping kids at school and having dinner and

1018
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:57,440
Speaker 1: some cocktails to like, I'm flying to Afghanistan tomorrow. It's

1019
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 1: it's got to be hard. It's gotta heard for the family.

1020
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 1: I mean, if they continue, if they're still regularly going

1021
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 1: on assignment, I mean, it's rough. So that was definitely

1022
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 1: one of my favorites because I love learning, and I

1023
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 1: also that talk about a sister bond that really knows

1024
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 1: no bounce, and you know what I loved about and

1025
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 1: the most that they both said that their husbands are

1026
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 1: very clear that they'd have to survive themselves if they're

1027
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 1: sister or they're brother fell I mean, I'm sorry, if

1028
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 1: their sister or their husband fell off the boat, who

1029
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 1: would they go to save? And they're like, oh, our

1030
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 1: husbands are pretty clear, they're on their own. Wow. I

1031
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 1: love you guys anyway. Okay, So, if you liked what

1032
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:45,680
Speaker 1: you've heard so far, if you loved this episode or

1033
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 1: any of our episodes as much as we have, please

1034
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:51,680
Speaker 1: make sure you're subscribed to an Apple podcast and give

1035
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 1: us a rating and review, and of course keep listening

1036
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:59,600
Speaker 1: and check us out on our Instagram, on at works

1037
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 1: dot for dot us, or call and share your story

1038
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 1: or ask us a question. If you want to share

1039
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 1: your own story or ask us a question, leave us

1040
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 1: a message at our new Works for Us hotline six

1041
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 1: five seven five four nine two two five one and

1042
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 1: we might just share your story or answer your question

1043
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 1: on the show. Well, we always want to leave you

1044
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 1: with a little highlight and low light from our weekum

1045
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 1: and in relationships, the bad comes with the goods, So

1046
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 1: this is our time to mention a little bit of

1047
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 1: both those things. My low light for the week is

1048
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 1: I feel like before we go away, you, um, you

1049
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:43,000
Speaker 1: lose your sanity, I lose my sanity. Are you okay?

1050
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 1: Are you okay? Why don't you ask the children or

1051
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 1: anyone in this house who was a witnessed to the

1052
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 1: fact that, okay, everyone, listen up, my husband, my husband,

1053
01:02:56,680 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 1: are we going to share this light? Sick hold on

1054
01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:04,280
Speaker 1: group low lights day? Six thirty inch? That would be

1055
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:08,240
Speaker 1: the largest size suitcase for those of you that don't know,

1056
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 1: but you are not allowed larger than thirty inches sweetier

1057
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 1: and took six six for the summer, yep six for

1058
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 1: the Hamptons in the past. I would like you to

1059
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 1: know that as he exploded about how much stuff I pass,

1060
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 1: exploded again exploded. When I say exploded, I have to

1061
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:28,200
Speaker 1: say it like that because it's like the roof comes

1062
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:30,200
Speaker 1: off the house. For those of you that have never

1063
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:35,840
Speaker 1: had the pleasure of hearing Roger lose his mind. But basically,

1064
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 1: for the last I don't know twenty summers, I've had

1065
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 1: to have at least three temper tantrums on the way

1066
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:43,920
Speaker 1: and from the Hamptons of how much ever back. But

1067
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:46,920
Speaker 1: here's the highlights. You threw the temper tans all week.

1068
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:49,520
Speaker 1: I've been fine, I'm actually so common quiet. But here's

1069
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 1: the thing. The lowlight is the low light is that

1070
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 1: you took six of the biggest suitcases that are heart sided,

1071
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 1: and they're protective of clothing. And can I tell you something, No,

1072
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:03,080
Speaker 1: I know for a fact, I'll say photos. I know

1073
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 1: for a fact, I know I double confirmed with two

1074
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:07,360
Speaker 1: other people. Know it's not the lord. I just want

1075
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 1: everyone to know that he apparently feels that his hoodies

1076
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 1: and his T shirts and his eighteen pairs of eggs

1077
01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:19,760
Speaker 1: and speakers need to be really protected in the best suitcases,

1078
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 1: more than my vintage long full length gowns from the forties,

1079
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:35,080
Speaker 1: the sixties and seventies. Really, second, you are I get better,

1080
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,880
Speaker 1: you get crap? I get better this you've got crap?

1081
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 1: Why don't we husband? Why were husbands and wives? Wives?

1082
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 1: Sounds a lot like bickering now, And I just want

1083
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 1: to say, okay, finished, did finish my highlight? Okay, so

1084
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 1: my highlight? This is the best and only a few

1085
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:58,600
Speaker 1: of you on the inside can appreciate this. What But

1086
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 1: the best thing is he cannot utter a word the

1087
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:07,960
Speaker 1: entire summer on the two or the from or the

1088
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 1: packing or the moving, or any of the shopping about

1089
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:15,720
Speaker 1: how much I overpacked, because you have packed fifty percent

1090
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:20,440
Speaker 1: of the overpack this time, normally he's twenty percent. Then

1091
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 1: you can have an argument. So my highlight is, Yep,

1092
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 1: I'm going to have a great summer. I mean, there's

1093
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:32,280
Speaker 1: just no rebuttal. She's just the worst person in all time.

1094
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:36,320
Speaker 1: She said six, he's never done. They're not the large

1095
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 1: ones for the record, And I kept all my hangers

1096
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:41,240
Speaker 1: in this time, which you never do, so they're hugely bulky.

1097
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:44,160
Speaker 1: But then I'll unpack real quick. What about my highlight?

1098
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 1: Rachel might do my highlight alone, I guess so. No,

1099
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:52,200
Speaker 1: my highlight is that my wife just walked out of

1100
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 1: the room and I'm here in peaceful quiet, bliss. This

1101
01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 1: is really my show. Damn it, I'm taking over. She

1102
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:06,680
Speaker 1: thinks that she's better than me. But no, I will prevail, Yes,

1103
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 1: I will prevail. This podcast is sponsored by Better Help,

1104
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:16,280
Speaker 1: So I know we've already talked about prioritizing mental health

1105
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:19,280
Speaker 1: in this episode, but I really cannot say it enough.

1106
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:22,160
Speaker 1: There's no need to feel ashamed. And if you want

1107
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:25,200
Speaker 1: to try therapy and are curious if it might make

1108
01:06:25,240 --> 01:06:28,439
Speaker 1: a difference for you, the support you need is absolutely

1109
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:31,800
Speaker 1: in reach because of Better Help. Better Help is so

1110
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:35,280
Speaker 1: convenient and easy to start. You can schedule weekly video

1111
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:37,920
Speaker 1: or phone sessions. You don't have to try to fit

1112
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 1: an in person therapy session into your busy routine. And

1113
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:44,600
Speaker 1: remember better Help is committed to finding a therapist who's

1114
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:48,440
Speaker 1: the right fit for you. This podcast is sponsored by

1115
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:51,200
Speaker 1: Better Help and Works. Rest listeners get ten percent off

1116
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:54,160
Speaker 1: their first month at better health dot com slash works,

1117
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 1: So don't wait. Visit better health dot com slash works

1118
01:06:57,640 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 1: and join the over one million people who have taken

1119
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:02,120
Speaker 1: can charge of their mental health with the help of

1120
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 1: an experienced professional m