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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Hurdle. I am Emily a body.

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Speaker 1: This week I'm chatting with Golden Harper. He's the founder

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Speaker 1: of a shoe company called Ultra, which if you've been

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Speaker 1: listening to Hurdle over the past few months, well you

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Speaker 1: know a little bit about him by now. Harper's Hurdle

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Speaker 1: moment came right as he was taking a leap of

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Speaker 1: faith to get the brand off the ground, he found

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Speaker 1: himself in a snowboard accident, which left him in rough shape,

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Speaker 1: unable to walk, nevertheless run. Today we're chatting all about

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Speaker 1: how that crazy, horrifying experience made him stronger, both mentally

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Speaker 1: and physically. Quick Thank you to the sponsor of today's episode,

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Speaker 1: Pluto Pillow. Guys, if you know anything about me, it's

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Speaker 1: That's Pluto pillow dot com. A little housekeeping on my end.

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Speaker 1: Exciting housekeeping. We are just two weeks away from Hurdle Live,

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Speaker 1: a panel talk on self love with some of the

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Speaker 1: rad guests from the podcast's first ten episodes, How Insane

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Speaker 1: is It? We're already up to episode ten. Hurdle Live

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Speaker 1: is at the Rlow Nomad Hotel on May eighth at

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Speaker 1: six thirty pm. I'll be sitting down with Fred Santarpia,

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Speaker 1: the chief Digital Officer at Conde nast Alex Silver Fagan,

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Speaker 1: Nike Master Trainer, Adam Callen, co founder of Jane Motorcycles,

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Speaker 1: Sarah Levy, the badass babe behind y seven Studio, and

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Speaker 1: Candice half Feine, model and create of Day One. Huge

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Speaker 1: thanks to my friends at the Arlow Hotel for helping

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Speaker 1: me make this all possible. I am so so, so

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Speaker 1: so so excited. If you are not already, also make

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Speaker 1: sure that you are subscribed to Hurdle in the iTunes

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Speaker 1: store and follow the pod on social media at Hurdle Podcast.

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Speaker 1: And last, but not least, if you like getting good deals,

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Speaker 1: listen up. In honor of Golden Stint on today's episode,

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Speaker 1: fifty percent off of retail value on their site Ultra

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Speaker 1: Running dot Com. Use the promo code Ultra for Hurdle. Again,

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Speaker 1: that's Ultra for Hurdle. A L T R A f

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Speaker 1: your deal. Head on over there altr running dot com.

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Speaker 1: Snag yourself some kicks and that's it. Well that let's

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Speaker 1: get to hurdling. So today I'm sitting here with Golden Harper. Golden,

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Speaker 1: what's going on?

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Speaker 2: Hey, just hanging out in Park City.

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Speaker 1: Park City. I know this is a fun little experiment

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Speaker 1: for Hurdle on the road. Indeed, tell me a little

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Speaker 1: bit about your shtick, Golden.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I started a shoe company called Ultra, trying to

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Speaker 2: make shoes based on scientific research instead of on marketing.

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Speaker 2: So basically every other shoe company has been built on

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Speaker 2: performance in marketing and hasn't really ever focused on the

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Speaker 2: injury side of things, and what this, you know, the

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Speaker 2: way science says shoes should be built.

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Speaker 1: In my opinion, so when you make a shoe that

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Speaker 1: is designed based on science instead of marketing, what is

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Speaker 1: a consumer going to see that is different in that shoe.

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Speaker 2: There's probably two main things. First thing we do is

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Speaker 2: we make shoes that are level from heel to forefoot.

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Speaker 2: You're born that way, you get up every morning that way.

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Speaker 2: We call it zero drop, meaning that the shoe doesn't

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Speaker 2: drop from the heel down to the fore foot. And

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Speaker 2: you know, this is just the way we come. I

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Speaker 2: call it oem human, you know, like this is just

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Speaker 2: like natural human when you get out of bed in

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Speaker 2: the morning, boom, your zero drop, you know. And so

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Speaker 2: we try not to jack with that. And then the

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Speaker 2: second thing is that something that people never think about

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Speaker 2: is that shoes are not shaped like healthy human feet.

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Speaker 2: Feet are naturally pretty square shaped, and shoes are pretty,

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Speaker 2: you know, fairly pointy, even athletic shoes. You know, you

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Speaker 2: think like, oh no, they're they're comfortable or whatever, but

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Speaker 2: they're not shaped like your feet. You know, stick a

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Speaker 2: healthy foot down next to a shoe. Those are two

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Speaker 2: very different shapes, and it goes all the way back

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Speaker 2: to preschool. You know. Don't put the square shape in

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Speaker 2: the triangle whole, you know. And then you know, we

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Speaker 2: take take our kids or whatever, and we put them

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Speaker 2: in these shoes, and we wonder why their feet start hurt.

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Speaker 2: And you look at there's a billion people on earth

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Speaker 2: with that don't wear modern footwear. They go barefoot or

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Speaker 2: they wear primitive sandals. Zero chronic foot conditions, no planifesciosis,

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Speaker 2: no onions, no aromas, no heel spurs like, none of

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Speaker 2: this stuff that plagues us, you know. And you know

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Speaker 2: here in America, seventy three percent of US report foot

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Speaker 2: pain every single day or every single year. So it's

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Speaker 2: just a huge number, three out of four of us.

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Speaker 2: And chronic foot conditions and foot pain itself are caused

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Speaker 2: by shoes. And unfortunately, in America we spend twenty eight

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Speaker 2: billion dollars every year on pad surgeries and treatments to

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Speaker 2: help relieve pain that was caused by our shoes that

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Speaker 2: we spent twenty six billion dollars on.

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Speaker 1: Is that the number really twenty six billion dollars of.

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Speaker 2: Market, twenty six billion on shoes, And then we spend

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Speaker 2: twenty eight billion on just stuff to fix the damage

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Speaker 2: that our shoes are doing to our bodies. And because

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Speaker 2: it's so slow and over time, you know, people don't

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Speaker 2: notice that the shape of their foot is changing, or

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Speaker 2: that they're getting a bunion, or that they're having a

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Speaker 2: neuralma form or whatever. And you know, then you wake

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Speaker 2: up one day and it's like, oh, wow, I'm really

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Speaker 2: you know, kind of messed up.

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Speaker 1: Wow, this is a totally normal thing. Just to decide

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Speaker 1: one day You're like, I'm going to try to start

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Speaker 1: this company that is completely different than every single other

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Speaker 1: athletic footwear company out there.

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Speaker 2: It's insane, It isn't I thought the urge for like

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Speaker 2: a year and a half.

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Speaker 1: What really drove you in the first place to say,

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Speaker 1: not only do I want to find a solution for

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Speaker 1: this problem that you found, but then I'm going to

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Speaker 1: create a footwear company based on this first question.

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Speaker 2: So my dad was actually working for Nike when I

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Speaker 2: was born, and we opened a running store when I

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Speaker 2: was nine, and so I had been working in this

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Speaker 2: running store up until the time I went to college.

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Speaker 2: And when I went to college, I wanted to I

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Speaker 2: wanted to research shoes and injuries so I could better

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Speaker 2: help the customers that came into my store. Because you

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Speaker 2: start to realize that after you've worked in a running

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Speaker 2: store or a shoe store long enough that most people

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Speaker 2: come in to buy shoes because something hurts, something's broken,

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Speaker 2: something's off, and you, if you care, you want to

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Speaker 2: you want to be able to fix them. So I thought,

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Speaker 2: I'll go study that in college. I get into college

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Speaker 2: and I start researching shoes and injuries and running technique

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Speaker 2: and all this stuff, and I realized, like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 2: everything I've been taught by all the shoe companies is

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Speaker 2: total bull craf like like it has no scientific, you know,

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Speaker 2: basis behind it whatsoever. I've been lying to people my

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Speaker 2: whole life, and it was really frustrated straighting, you know,

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Speaker 2: like it was like always like, oh, you have a

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Speaker 2: knee problem, let me give you a shoe with lots

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Speaker 2: of gel or lots of air. And where the science

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Speaker 2: shows that like cushioning technologies actually magnify forces on the joints,

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Speaker 2: you know, they make it harder on your body. Checking

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Speaker 2: all that stuff out that made me want to build

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Speaker 2: shoes that were actually based on what you know, these

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Speaker 2: pediatrists and researchers had been saying and suggesting shoes should

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Speaker 2: be made.

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Speaker 1: Like, so, how does someone go from wanting to do

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Speaker 1: that to actually doing that? I mean, I'm assuming you

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Speaker 1: had to first come up with a footprint pun intended

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Speaker 1: of what this could look like in practice, and then

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Speaker 1: of course next up is finding funding for a project

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Speaker 1: like this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so initially I used my staff as guinea pigs

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Speaker 2: at the store. So I actually made the first prototype

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Speaker 2: shoe in my toaster oven. So we were watching people

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Speaker 2: run at our store, and we would teach everybody how

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Speaker 2: to run an efficient way that protects their body. And

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Speaker 2: as we started videoing people with slow motion. That technology

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Speaker 2: came available just over ten years ago, and we start

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Speaker 2: watching people in slow motion, we see people run completely

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Speaker 2: differently in the shoes we were selling them than they

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Speaker 2: do in like a cross country flat or a racing

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Speaker 2: shoe or something that's barely there, or when they don't

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Speaker 2: have shoes on at all. And my dad's comment was,

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Speaker 2: he was like, I teach everyone in here a lesson

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Speaker 2: on how to protect their body when they run, and

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Speaker 2: then it looks like I sell them a pair of

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Speaker 2: shoes that undoes everything I teach them every single time

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Speaker 2: I go out there. And that was a really sobering moment,

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Speaker 2: you know, it was like, it was a really frustrating

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Speaker 2: moment too. And as I'm watching the video, I can

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Speaker 2: see like the heel start to drag as it swings

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Speaker 2: out in front of the body, and then it catches

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Speaker 2: a couple inches early, and just this light bulb is like, well, yeah,

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Speaker 2: look at the way the shoes built. It's twice as

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Speaker 2: heavy in the heel, it's twice as thick in the heel.

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Speaker 2: Like of course it's going to change the way the

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Speaker 2: body wants to move. And that's when I went home,

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Speaker 2: popped a pair of shoes in the toaster oven and

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Speaker 2: ripped the sole out of there, took the rubber off,

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Speaker 2: put in some level you know, weight balanced pieces of foam,

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Speaker 2: glued the rubber back on, went for run and started

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Speaker 2: filming things and then guinea pigging my staff at the store.

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Speaker 2: And then that worked, and we you know, started somehow

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Speaker 2: some customer found out about it, and some guy that

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Speaker 2: had to had knee problems for everyone couldn't fix them,

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Speaker 2: and he's like, well, I'm willing to try anything. I'll

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Speaker 2: try those ugly shoes and put them on, and you know,

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Speaker 2: we're like, okay, just don't tell anybody about this, you know.

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Speaker 1: So wait, were these the same shoes that you made

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Speaker 1: in the toaster that the guy took run outside?

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Speaker 2: I believe this first one. I don't know if it

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Speaker 2: was my toaster ribbon shoe, because we started making shoes

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Speaker 2: with the shoemaker down the street where he would just

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Speaker 2: cut into and level out our kind of like best

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Speaker 2: selling shoes in the store.

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Speaker 1: I've got to ask you, like, what brand were these

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Speaker 1: shoes that you were toasting.

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Speaker 2: The first pair of shoes I put in the toastbin

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Speaker 2: was an innovate shoe. The shoes that I did my

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Speaker 2: initial twenty five pair on my staff were the original

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four Soccny jazz Is.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: We called them the Jazzy Zeros.

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Speaker 1: The Jazzies.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: All right, So you start toasting shoes, you find that

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Speaker 1: there are people that are down with the toasted shoes.

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Speaker 1: When do you go in your mind that you're thinking,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's about time I stopped toasting the shoes and

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Speaker 1: instead start looking into ways to actually produce these in

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Speaker 1: a legitimate fashion.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So what happened is we sold a thousand pair

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Speaker 2: of these modified shoes the first year. So that one

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Speaker 2: I told his friend, who told a friend, who told

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Speaker 2: a friend, and it just got like fight club. People

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Speaker 2: are coming into the store like, Hey, I want to

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Speaker 2: try the zero drop shoes and we're like, oh, there's

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Speaker 2: no such thing. And they're like, oh, we know they're

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Speaker 2: back there, you know, and we're like, okay, what's the password?

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Speaker 1: Were you just buying these sockeny shoes in bulk?

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Speaker 2: No, So what we started doing is we were taking

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Speaker 2: the best selling shoes in our store. Yeah, and we

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Speaker 2: started we started having the shoemaker down the road hack

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Speaker 2: those up, and so we had a variety of different shoes, roadshoes,

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Speaker 2: trail shoes, our best selling models in the store, and

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Speaker 2: these are what people were coming in and we would

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Speaker 2: actually have them, you know, we figured we were going

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Speaker 2: to get sued pretty quick, and yeah, we had a

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Speaker 2: full size run that they could try and then we'd

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Speaker 2: give them a fresh pair and we would either take

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Speaker 2: them to the shoemaker and have him modify them and

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Speaker 2: then pick them up and pay for them, or they

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Speaker 2: would do it themselves.

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Speaker 1: And what was the what was the cost overhead on

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Speaker 1: like buying the shoe, doing the shoemaker, and selling them again.

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Speaker 2: So we didn't really try to make any money on this.

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Speaker 2: So in fact, we didn't make any money on them

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Speaker 2: that we just most of them we just had paid

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Speaker 2: the shoemaker directly or we charged them exactly what he

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Speaker 2: charged us, because for us, it was an experiment on

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Speaker 2: whether this worked. And so we actually got a thousand

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Speaker 2: pairs of shoes sold that first year, and we gave

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Speaker 2: surveys out and we paid people ten bucks to come

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Speaker 2: back and tell us what happened, What hurts more, what

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Speaker 2: hurts less, How are you landing different, what muscles are

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Speaker 2: you using differently? Like the whole rundown. And there was

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Speaker 2: no bias because you know, we didn't care. It's just like, okay,

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Speaker 2: what's good, what's bad? You know what's working, what's not working.

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Speaker 2: And what we found is we had five like major

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Speaker 2: areas that it helped with and low back is shoes

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Speaker 2: like really stuck out. We had the number of like

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Speaker 2: three hundred pound dudes that came in that were not runners,

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Speaker 2: you know, that got these shoes leveled out to pull

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Speaker 2: pressure off their lower back was insane and would go

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Speaker 2: into the shoemaker and get all their shoes leveled off,

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Speaker 2: you know, their dress shoes, half the heels off, you know.

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Speaker 2: And then we found planofasciosis, which is a big one

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Speaker 2: for runners, shin splints, runner's knee, and it issues. Those

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Speaker 2: were the four we saw like overwhelming success with, and

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Speaker 2: so we took these surveys and I didn't want to

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Speaker 2: start a shoe company, so I just went to We

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Speaker 2: had good connections in the shoe industry, and so we

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Speaker 2: just took the surveys to the shoe companies and said, hey,

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Speaker 2: when you build shoes like this, when you get that

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Speaker 2: heavy elevated heel out of the shoe and you expand

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Speaker 2: the toebux to make it look like a foot, then

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Speaker 2: these injuries go away. And we have the proof. You know,

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Speaker 2: we have a thousand you know people, and all these

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Speaker 2: surveys worth, and we don't want any money for the idea.

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Speaker 2: Just build the shoes so we can sell them at

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Speaker 2: our store.

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Speaker 1: But that's kind of an insane proposition because you, without

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Speaker 1: really realizing it, have a very feasible money making concept

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Speaker 1: in your hand.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I didn't see it that way.

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Speaker 1: You just wanted people to be better.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all that was it fixed people.

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Speaker 1: So something. I also think that it's important to mention

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Speaker 1: right here before we kind of head into your big

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Speaker 1: hurdle moment. As I know it is that Golden also

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Speaker 1: grew up a runner. As he mentioned, Golden is the

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Speaker 1: Guinness World Record holder for the marathon time at age twelve.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I think that I've had a lot of great

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Speaker 1: people on the podcast so far, but Golden is by

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Speaker 1: far the most active before he hits the hurdle moment. Like,

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Speaker 1: were your parents like, yeah, you should go run a

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Speaker 1: marathon at age twelve? When I was twelve, my dad

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Speaker 1: was making me like egg sandwiches on Sunday mornings and

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Speaker 1: we were like leisurely walking through our town trail.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I was not normal.

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Speaker 1: Actually I came in last, literally last place in a

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Speaker 1: five k with my dad at age twelve.

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Speaker 2: But you were out there.

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Speaker 1: It's very true.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, No, I was a strange child obviously, So

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Speaker 2: I wanted drum when I was nine, and they were like, no,

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Speaker 2: that's insane, you can't do that. And what happened that

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Speaker 2: year is the youngest runner in the race got this trophy,

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Speaker 2: this performance the Day trophy, six feet tall, I'm like

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Speaker 2: three feet tall, and I'm like, if you let me

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Speaker 2: run that race, I would have got that huge trophy

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Speaker 2: about three octaves higher, you know. And they were like, okay, fine,

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Speaker 2: if you run next year, you know, if you if

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Speaker 2: you train, and like, if you do rim to Rim

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Speaker 2: in the Grand Canyon and run to the top of

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Speaker 2: Mount Timpanogus and back. These things are harder than a marathon,

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Speaker 2: you know, then we'll let you run the marathon. I

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Speaker 2: think they were thinking they would dissuade me. They really

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Speaker 2: underestimated three foot me six six foot tall trophy, you know,

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Speaker 2: just like think about that. And so I ran my

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Speaker 2: first marathon as a ten year old three hours in

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Speaker 2: eight minutes.

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Speaker 1: I didn't get the trophy, did they two questions? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the three hours in eight minutes just totally trip me out.

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Speaker 1: What kind of pace is that?

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Speaker 2: It's about seven minutes a mile.

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Speaker 1: A seven minute mile at ten years old? Also, did

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Speaker 1: your parents run those other outrageous things they threw in

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Speaker 1: your face to tell you if you do these things,

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Speaker 1: you can run the marathon.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and we did it all. So they were like,

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Speaker 2: you know, four marathonish things we had to do before

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Speaker 2: the marathon, and they went and did them, and I came.

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Speaker 1: Along and yeah, so threeh eight people run all of

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Speaker 1: their lives looking for a three to eight and you

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Speaker 1: did it at age ten.

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Speaker 2: I know, I kind of hate talking about it because

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Speaker 2: people get pissed.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So then what happened at age twelve?

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Speaker 2: So I didn't get the trophy and it was eleven

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Speaker 2: either ran faster. So my thought process it was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I'm not impressive.

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Speaker 1: Enough, right, this is really great for a child self esteem, right. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, so at age twelve, I'm like, you know,

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Speaker 2: I didn't know like you know, state record, national record, whatever,

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Speaker 2: and those first two years, and so this third year,

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Speaker 2: I'm just trying to get the big trophy. Run really fast,

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Speaker 2: two forty five world best. Never got the trophy. I

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Speaker 2: ran faster than next the next year as well. I

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Speaker 2: never got this giant trophy, but it was the thing

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Speaker 2: that motivated me.

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Speaker 1: Do you have a trophy now in your house?

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Speaker 2: I never got that six foot tall one, and frankly,

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Speaker 2: looking back at it, I'm kind of glad. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I've got like a little plaque that hangs on my wall,

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Speaker 2: and it's it's nice, you know, I don't know what

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Speaker 2: I'd do the six foot tall trophy.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It's twenty eighteen. Maybe someone's going to

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Speaker 1: get you in for Christmas this year. After hearing this

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Speaker 1: podcast fast forward, you are having this amazing sneaker concept

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Speaker 1: much later, and then something happens that kind of throws

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Speaker 1: you on your ass. What happened?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Literally, actually I was. I was snowboarding, had you know,

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Speaker 2: it went a lot in the winter, and it was

357
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Speaker 2: right while all this stuff was happening, just starting up

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Speaker 2: the shoe company. All the shoe companies had told me, no,

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Speaker 2: we're not going to build that. And after a year

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Speaker 2: of like sitting around hacking up shoes forever, it was

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Speaker 2: like a you know, I ended up getting kind of

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Speaker 2: pulled into it with my cousin and we decide to

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Speaker 2: go after this thing. And so debt is stacking up.

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Speaker 2: It looks impossible. It's completely insane. Nobody does this. We've

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Speaker 2: had the same seven big running shoe companies since the

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Speaker 2: beginning of time, and so I'm deep in debt. It's

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Speaker 2: just like not working. It's crazy hard, and I'm out snowboarding,

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Speaker 2: snowboarding to kind of clear my mind and just like

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Speaker 2: clear the air and I decided, like, you know, I

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Speaker 2: want to do the train park a little bit more.

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Speaker 2: And so I'm in there and I I'm my fear

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Speaker 2: factors not as high as it should be, and I

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Speaker 2: hit a pipe that you could call a hurdle, uh,

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Speaker 2: doing a flip going about thirty miles an hour, and

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Speaker 2: so I you know, traveled another thirty feet through the air,

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Speaker 2: landed on my head and my shoulder separated, my ac

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Speaker 2: joint and then my snowboard and my legs came back

378
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,800
Speaker 2: according back behind my head and hit the ground behind

379
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Speaker 2: me and stretched you know, my glutes, my hamstrings and

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Speaker 2: everything in between as far as possible. Basically just ripped everything,

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Speaker 2: you know, And and that was that was kind of

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Speaker 2: it for me being active for quite a while.

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Speaker 1: Right when it happened, did you know like this is

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Speaker 1: this is bad?

385
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,239
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that hurt like well, I blacked that when

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Speaker 2: it happened, my helmet you know, crack and luckily, you know,

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Speaker 2: I had the helmet on. I knew my shoulder was

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Speaker 2: super jacked. It was just excruciating. And then I could walk,

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Speaker 2: you know, so I knew like something was was super

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Speaker 2: super bad.

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Speaker 1: How long were you down and out for from walking.

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Speaker 2: It's only only a few days to a couple of

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Speaker 2: weeks that I really couldn't walk, you know, walk. I

394
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Speaker 2: guess I probably didn't walk normal for maybe a month,

395
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Speaker 2: and then it was just kind of a long road

396
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Speaker 2: back from there. Frankly, I'm still not all the way back.

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Speaker 2: And I had shoulder surgery last year that they couldn't

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Speaker 2: quite fix everything, and then the legs are coming back,

399
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,920
Speaker 2: but they're not perfect. So it's been a long road.

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Speaker 1: What does this really do for your frame of mind

401
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,320
Speaker 1: in terms of the things that you have been working on.

402
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:50,399
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure being put in that situation, you

403
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,639
Speaker 1: are kind of forced to really evaluate what you have

404
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Speaker 1: going on in your life and also probably the people

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Speaker 1: you have in your life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, the previous fall, I had just graduated from college.

407
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Speaker 2: I ran my first ultra marathon.

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Speaker 1: Where did you go to college?

409
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Speaker 2: BAU and BW Hawaii, And I was super successful with

410
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,520
Speaker 2: this first fifty mile race I did. And so you

411
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Speaker 2: can imagine the amount of time being spent there. And

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Speaker 2: then I'm working, like, you know, a lot to get

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Speaker 2: this this shoe company off the ground, get Aultra off

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Speaker 2: the ground, and now I can't run. I got all

415
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,440
Speaker 2: this time Boom laser folk, and it just happened to

416
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Speaker 2: be the right time like for me to focus on

417
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,120
Speaker 2: like where I needed more time to really get shoe

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Speaker 2: company off the ground. And so what it did is

419
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Speaker 2: it just got me laser focused on what would become

420
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:45,080
Speaker 2: ultra and aer work weeks became the norm for you know,

421
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Speaker 2: the next couple of years.

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Speaker 1: As a guy who as a guy who majored in

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Speaker 1: exercise sciences, how does that guy go to being you know,

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00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,480
Speaker 1: so knowledgeable about business to creating this company.

425
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Speaker 2: I have been menting our shoe store off and on

426
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Speaker 2: for several years, you know, even since I was pre college,

427
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,960
Speaker 2: so I had a lot of management experience, and I think,

428
00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,960
Speaker 2: you know, the business side of things mostly comes naturally

429
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,399
Speaker 2: to me. And I'm a big like abundance karma believer,

430
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Speaker 2: so like you throw good stuff out into the world

431
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,440
Speaker 2: and good stuff comes back to you, and you always

432
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Speaker 2: like make the right decision for everyone and ultimately that's

433
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Speaker 2: going to come back and be good for you. And

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Speaker 2: so I'm kind of always abided by those principles, which

435
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 2: is really different than maybe the business world as a whole.

436
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,119
Speaker 2: But I always saw it work. And my dad was

437
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 2: like the ultimate example of this. You know, if he

438
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 2: had to give shoes away, he would do it. Whatever

439
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,680
Speaker 2: it took to like just do the right thing. He

440
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:46,920
Speaker 2: would always do it. And it always came back good

441
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:48,880
Speaker 2: for us, you know, and it could be ten years later,

442
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 2: but it always came back. And I just kind of

443
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 2: took that. And I mean I was, like, you know,

444
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,920
Speaker 2: one credit short of a business management miner, so I

445
00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 2: did do business in school, and how to is a

446
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,120
Speaker 2: management emphasis on my degree as well.

447
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,479
Speaker 1: How does someone who so strongly believes in karma really

448
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 1: feel after an accident like that.

449
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 2: I don't know. That's like, I mean, I'm a really

450
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,880
Speaker 2: religious person as well. I just I really believe that

451
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,959
Speaker 2: there's a plan for all of us and that you know,

452
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,439
Speaker 2: not to be like the lame. Everything happens for a

453
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,679
Speaker 2: reason kind of thing. Like we do choose our own way,

454
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 2: and I believe that we're allowed to choose that path.

455
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 2: And you know, you like, if you have kids, you

456
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 2: have to let them learn, you have to let them

457
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,679
Speaker 2: go out there and experience the things you can't, like,

458
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,200
Speaker 2: you know, walk them through everything and tell them exactly

459
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,159
Speaker 2: how to do things. And I feel like, you know,

460
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 2: if you believe in God or whatever that it's the

461
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 2: same way there. God can't just hold our hands and

462
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 2: make us do everything right, Like we have to like

463
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,399
Speaker 2: learn through our own experiences and we choose those things.

464
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 2: But I still think there's a plan.

465
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: For all of us.

466
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 2: And so part of that is that like the more

467
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 2: good we give, you know, the more good I expect,

468
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,120
Speaker 2: you know, should come back. And it just makes sense

469
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 2: when you think about it. And I like, my name's Golden,

470
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 2: and I really believe in the Golden Rule and whatnot,

471
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 2: you know, like really like treat others the way you

472
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,160
Speaker 2: would want to be treated or better, you know. And

473
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,680
Speaker 2: I just think that when you do that, things that

474
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 2: work out in the end, even when they don't make

475
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 2: any business sense or any other sense or whatever it

476
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 2: happens to be.

477
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 1: So you're kind of bedridden, you're starting to walk a

478
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 1: little bit. You're certainly not running. I mean I was

479
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 1: sidelined last year with a little bit of arthritis in

480
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 1: my lower back, and I had to really fall back

481
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,199
Speaker 1: from both running but lifting all the things. And it

482
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: was really hard, and it was you know, I could

483
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 1: do enough things for you. You are walking instead of running.

484
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 1: How did that change? How did that change things for you.

485
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've virtually lost everything that I love to do,

486
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 2: which you know, people who aren't active probably won't understand this,

487
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 2: but it was a one complete lifestyle change and really

488
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 2: jacks with like the way your mind works too, because

489
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 2: if you're used to being active and you love the outdoors,

490
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 2: and for me, like I'm a mountain climber, I love

491
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 2: to be on top of a big mountain, you know.

492
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,719
Speaker 2: And but what happened is it allowed me to channel

493
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 2: that energy into focusing on other people, as in, like,

494
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 2: let's create the best shoes ever to keep people from

495
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 2: getting hurt, to get rid of foot conditions, to get

496
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 2: rid of foot problems, to make a lot of these

497
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 2: common running injuries a thing of the past, things that

498
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 2: don't have to happen. And at the same time, I

499
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 2: met my future wife right after that started dating her

500
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,360
Speaker 2: as well, and so I had these kind of two

501
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,719
Speaker 2: places to channel all that energy that I was using.

502
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 2: And you could say like it was a little selfish.

503
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 2: Before it was like, you know, I mean they're good pursuits,

504
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 2: you know, being active and being outdoors, these are good things.

505
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 2: But now I'm like putting all this energy into building

506
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 2: something that I hope is great for everyone else, and

507
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 2: I'm putting all this energy into, you know, really doing

508
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,479
Speaker 2: nice things for this person that would eventually become my wife.

509
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: So where did you meet her?

510
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 2: We met at church, actually, yeah, you know, but we

511
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 2: lost contact. This is the best part. We re met

512
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 2: and started dating again at a race that I had

513
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 2: showed up. The shoes had just come out, they were

514
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,439
Speaker 2: brand new on the market, and I'm there at this

515
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 2: little five k in my hometown with just like a

516
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 2: spread of shoes on a table and her and her

517
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 2: you know, mom and her brother walk up, and I'm like, oh, hey,

518
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 2: what's up, you know, And we had we've done on

519
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 2: one date, like you know, seven months earlier or whatever,

520
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 2: and had lost contact or whatever, and her brother was like,

521
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 2: you really need to date him?

522
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: And then a couple were an entrepreneur.

523
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great.

524
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 1: So you go fall head on into this shoe company.

525
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: You are not one hundred percent And when does the

526
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: shoe company really start to take off for you as.

527
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 2: Far as like me being committed to it, or as

528
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 2: far as shoes selling like hotcakes?

529
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: I mean, were you ever not committed to it? At

530
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: the point after you're.

531
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 2: All in like this was like do or die. We're

532
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 2: going to go a million dollars in debt and you

533
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 2: know it's all going to happen. So because I believed

534
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 2: in it, I knew it worked. We'd seen it. We

535
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 2: had a thousand people by freaking hacked up shoes, and

536
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 2: we had the surveys, like we knew it was effective.

537
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 2: We knew it helped people. And so when you know that,

538
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 2: like it's like, you know whatever, We're just going to

539
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 2: do it, and we know it's going to work. And

540
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 2: who cares if everybody in the industry says that it's

541
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 2: not And who cares if no one's done it before.

542
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 2: We're going to We're going to create change for the better.

543
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,959
Speaker 2: And so still remember me and my buddy Brian and

544
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 2: my cousin Jeremy go to the Outdoor Retailer Show. We

545
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 2: have ten feet by six feet.

546
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 1: What's the Outdoor Retailers Show?

547
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 2: The biggest like show for any kind of outdoor and

548
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 2: active brands. You know basically in the world, I would say,

549
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 2: you know in America, and.

550
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: It's like an expo.

551
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 2: It's an expo. So you know, stores like outdoor stores

552
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 2: and running stores and any any kind of active type

553
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 2: of stores come to this to like check out you

554
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 2: know stuff, mostly cool stuff from big brands. And here

555
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 2: we are in this ten foot by six foot booth

556
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 2: with a shoe and like and people just like would

557
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 2: put the shoe on and they're like these are you know,

558
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 2: they look different because if you've seen our shoes, they'd

559
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,360
Speaker 2: look like feet, you know, at first, like a foot

560
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 2: in a soap got traced because that's how we came

561
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 2: up with the shape. And you know, they're like, ah,

562
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 2: they look really weird, and then they put them on.

563
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 2: They're like, wow, that's where they comfortable. We had this

564
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 2: like pretty amazing response. And we go to this show

565
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 2: called the Running Event, and the Running Event is where

566
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 2: all basically the running stores in America come to one

567
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 2: place for one you know, for a few days every year,

568
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 2: and so you get to see all these running stores.

569
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 2: And we had twenty five running stores place like decent

570
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 2: sized orders for shoes, which was incredible because the shoes

571
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 2: didn't even exist yet. It was a Ponzi scheme, like

572
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 2: what year are we in here? End of twenty ten

573
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 2: and you're walking fine. Now this is like this is

574
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 2: like a year after the accident up to this point,

575
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 2: so Yeah, I'm walking and I'm kind of running a

576
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 2: little bit, but on the back of the.

577
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 1: Pack, I can't even I mean, I feel like everyone

578
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: obviously goes through emotional hurdles, but a hurdle that really

579
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 1: puts you on your ass like this, while you're so

580
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: brilliantly trying to build this epic company. It's like you're

581
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: at two different ends at the spectrum at once. Yeah,

582
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 1: how what kind of advice would you give to someone

583
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: who really feels like they can't put aside the bad

584
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: stuff to focus on the good stuff because you had it,

585
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: you had a lot of you had a lot of

586
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: bad stuff working against you.

587
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you just have to channel energy. Like,

588
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 2: when you have something bad in your life, you can't

589
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 2: just say I'm not going to do that anymore. You

590
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 2: have to replace it. So you have to find something

591
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 2: good to replace the bad with. And that's to me,

592
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 2: that's really cool article and it's really pivotal. So if

593
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 2: you're out there and you know you've just got a

594
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 2: lot of distractions and a lot of things that aren't

595
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 2: good in your life, you've got to find other things

596
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 2: to focus on that bury those things basically, and eventually

597
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 2: you create new habits in the good way that basically

598
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 2: overcome and suffocate the bad ones. So that's I guess

599
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 2: that's what I would say. And again like throw good

600
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 2: stuff out there, you know, just like do the right thing,

601
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 2: do good things for other people, and eventually it's going

602
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 2: to work in your favor. It just always does, you know,

603
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 2: and you might we go back to this whole Everything

604
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 2: kind of happens for a reason. Thing like I truly

605
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 2: believe like I had a snowboard accident that made me

606
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 2: not be able to run so that I could slow

607
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 2: down enough to actually spend more time with my wife

608
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 2: or who would become my wife, and so I would

609
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: have more time to focus on Bill what would become

610
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 2: all too.

611
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: Quick break. To give the sponsor of today's episode, Pluto Pillow,

612
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: a little bit of love, I'll be real, I've always

613
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: been super, super picky about my mattress, but never really

614
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Speaker 1: thought twice about the quality of my pillows. Pluto Pillow

615
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,520
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616
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617
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618
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619
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Speaker 1: you sleep and what you like. I took the survey online.

620
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Speaker 1: It is so easy, and within a week's time I

621
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: had a Pluto pillow of my own. That makes me

622
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: look forward to getting into my bed even more than

623
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624
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625
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626
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627
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628
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629
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630
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631
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: back to it. So I'm back here with Golden Harper.

632
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: He is the founder of Ultra. So you've got thousands

633
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: of orders for shoes. How does one actually get shoes made?

634
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 2: Like?

635
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: Who did you know? How did you know who was

636
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: going to get you the materials? Who was going to

637
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,959
Speaker 1: manufacture them? Like? How to design them?

638
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 2: Nobody? So when there's a will, there's a way, right.

639
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 2: And my cousin Jeremy is just one of those people

640
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 2: that like he's just like fine stuff. I could call

641
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,719
Speaker 2: him like he's like mcguiver. And what ended up happening

642
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 2: is he found this guy who found these guys, and

643
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 2: these guys were they had just left Nike, Adidas, and

644
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 2: we're talking the last maker at Nike, the head of

645
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 2: the kitchen at Nike, their advanced concepts team, the guy

646
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 2: in charge of Nike University teaching everyone at Nike how

647
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 2: to build shoes, the VP of development at Adidas, the

648
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 2: head of Catada Das. These guys are like serious shoemakers

649
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 2: and they heard about what we were doing. And so

650
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 2: I get this phone call and my first thought is

651
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: like finally getting sued, you know, it's finally happening, Like

652
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 2: they're suing us, you know. And they're like, no, it's cool.

653
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 2: We left those companies. It's all good. We've actually known

654
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 2: for fifteen years that shoes are supposed to be built

655
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 2: this way. We knew this at Nike, we knew this

656
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 2: at Adidas. We had the data, like we knew shoes

657
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 2: are supposed to be built this way. And it's been

658
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 2: painful all these years building things we didn't believe in.

659
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 2: And we want to make shoes like this too, and

660
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 2: so I'm like, okay, why are you guys calling me?

661
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 2: And they they're like, well, we don't know anything about

662
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 2: outdoor stores or running stores, and we don't have a

663
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 2: marketing story. We're just like old guys that know how

664
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 2: to build shoes at the end of the day. And

665
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 2: so it kind of clicked and I was like all right,

666
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 2: and they're like, how soon can you come up to Portland?

667
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 2: And I was like, won't be there in a couple

668
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 2: of weeks. And we jumped in the car and road

669
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 2: tripped up there and you know, backed a couple of

670
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 2: peaks along the way, and you know, slept in the

671
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 2: van and slept on the beach, and you know, it

672
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 2: was great. And so these guys had some connections and

673
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 2: they found a guy who had connections to factories, and

674
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 2: you know, we told them we were like absolutely committed

675
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 2: to building shoes in America and you know, all this stuff.

676
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 2: And after it all came back, you know, they looked

677
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 2: at everything we were trying to do and they're like, okay,

678
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 2: you got to readjust some expectations here. You can build

679
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 2: shoes in America, but they will be three hundred and

680
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 2: fifty dollars and they will suck, and I know other

681
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 2: people who have built shoes in America, and that is

682
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 2: actually very true for the most part, which is sad.

683
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 2: And then I dream one day that we'll fix that.

684
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 2: But right now, we don't have a shoe design school

685
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 2: in America. You can't go to college in the United

686
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 2: States to build or design shoes. So all the expertises

687
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 2: in China, all the you know, really that Hong Kong area,

688
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 2: all the materials, all people, I mean everything. It's crazy.

689
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 2: So he gives us the connection and then from there,

690
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 2: you know, we start, you know, I just tell these

691
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 2: guys what I want and they designed it in three

692
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 2: D and then we send it over the factories and

693
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 2: we get a first prototype back and it's hideous, but

694
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 2: it's totally cool and it works, you know, and then

695
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 2: it just kind of snowballs from there.

696
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:43,720
Speaker 1: Where does the money come from?

697
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 2: Where did our money come from?

698
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: I mean, someone's money came from somewhere.

699
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 2: This is the stupidest thing. So we basically go to

700
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 2: this guy we had a friend.

701
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: This is like one big mafia thing, I know, right,

702
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: I told you it.

703
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 2: Was a Ponzi scheme. When we were selling shoes, like

704
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 2: we were having people write orders because the shoes hadn't

705
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 2: been BILLI yet, right, you know, So what happened is

706
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 2: we had this friend who knew this guy who had

707
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 2: started this big company called Zango that became this billion

708
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 2: dollar company, and it just that.

709
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: I know what is that.

710
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 2: It's like a neutral nutrition company. They build like you know,

711
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 2: they start with mango steam juice and just that kind

712
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 2: of stuff. So if you heard of like no Ny Juice,

713
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 2: it's kind of a similar kind of thing and just

714
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 2: all this you know, nutrition stuff. And he's the one

715
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 2: who was really influential with me, like kind of teaching

716
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 2: me about the abundance thing and a little bit with

717
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 2: the karma and whatnot. And so we go to this guy,

718
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 2: we don't have any shoes, basically sit down in front

719
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 2: of him. We're like yeah, so we cut the heels

720
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 2: out of shoes and we expand the toe box and

721
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,359
Speaker 2: you know, make them shape like feet, and all these

722
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 2: injuries go away, and you know, we think it's you know,

723
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 2: we have stage to show that it's you know, going

724
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 2: to fix all these problems. And he's like, okay, you know,

725
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 2: we talked for forty five minutes and he just tells us,

726
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 2: let me you know, discuss this with my wife overnight

727
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,280
Speaker 2: and I'll call you back in the morning. We're like, okay, cool,

728
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 2: and it's like no chance.

729
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: Right.

730
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 2: He calls us back in the morning, he's like, I'll

731
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 2: give your first quarter million, and it was like okay,

732
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 2: you know, didn't ask for an ownership. Steak was just like,

733
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 2: let's just get this thing going. I believe in what

734
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 2: you're doing. And we're like, we didn't even have drawings

735
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 2: of shoes.

736
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 1: How old were you?

737
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:37,240
Speaker 2: I was twenty seven. Yeah, it's so fun, Like it's.

738
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: Literally speechless because if that that's outstanding.

739
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, so then we like to get more.

740
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,959
Speaker 1: What does your parents think Your dad's like the running guru.

741
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, no, they thought like they knew the

742
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 2: idea worked and they knew it was great, but they

743
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 2: were like, it's it's suicide. Like no one's ever done this,

744
00:36:55,600 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 2: no one's ever broken into really the running shoe business

745
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 2: for sure, and the outdoor business is really it's more

746
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 2: competitive than cars for turing out loud.

747
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: And then someone hands you two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

748
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 2: Which is like barely enough to even like prototype the

749
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 2: first you know shoes basically, you know it got us through,

750
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 2: you know, and paid for part of an order, basically

751
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:18,399
Speaker 2: the part of the first order.

752
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: And then after you paid for part of that first

753
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: order and you started selling them, was it like an

754
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: instant this is going to be okay situation or were

755
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: you still like, what the hell are we doing?

756
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 2: No, we had this moment after we had paid for

757
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,439
Speaker 2: part of the first order, we didn't have enough money

758
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 2: to pay for the rest of the order. And so

759
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,439
Speaker 2: the way the factory did it, they were like super

760
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 2: nice to us and said, Okay, you pay like you know,

761
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 2: x amount up front and then you pay the rest

762
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 2: when we finish the shoes, which factories just like don't

763
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 2: operate that way. But our connection, our agent, David Hill,

764
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 2: he just kind of brokeer this deal for us basically

765
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 2: super great and it just kind of like worked. But

766
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:01,879
Speaker 2: at the same time, we're sitting here and we didn't

767
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 2: have money to pay for more, and we're looking at

768
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 2: really spending like a million dollars to really get this

769
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 2: thing going, you know, from start to finish here and

770
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 2: we're staring down the barrel of that and we don't

771
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 2: have it. And we go to Angel investors and they're like,

772
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 2: you've never sold a shoe, Like you don't even have shoes.

773
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 2: You know, you have a shoe like one that you

774
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 2: guys run in and test, but you know, like you

775
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 2: haven't sold a single thing. You want us to give

776
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 2: you money. That's insane. And so we're at this point

777
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 2: and you know, we're trying to get the factory to

778
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 2: maybe invest because they think it's a cool idea. And

779
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 2: I mean literally we're on the brink of destruction, like

780
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 2: thirty times where it was like if something doesn't come

781
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 2: through tomorrow, the whole thing folds, you know, it's all

782
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 2: over and everything, like we've put everything into this and

783
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 2: quit our jobs and all this stuff, and then the

784
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 2: next day like something would just click, you know, something

785
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 2: would happen and we'd survive for another few weeks.

786
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: And is that something like someone giving you some more

787
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: money could be?

788
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean one of it was Joe Morton, the

789
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 2: initial investor that started Zango, that gave us the first

790
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 2: bit of money. He you know, he kicked in a

791
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,760
Speaker 2: little more at times. And then you know, we had

792
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 2: these guys from King Adidas that had come on. They

793
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 2: were you know, they had kind of committed some at

794
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 2: some moment and and that kind of got us through

795
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 2: a few weeks or a couple months until they decided

796
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 2: it was too risky and just just crazy stuff.

797
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: So how did it go from being like super crazy

798
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: to something really legit.

799
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 2: It's still super crazy, but it's legit too crazy. Thing is,

800
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 2: since we weren't since I especially wasn't interested in making money,

801
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 2: we actually did an acquisition deal with a company called

802
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 2: back On Health and Fitness before we sold our first

803
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 2: pair of shoes. So the shoes had been like we'd

804
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 2: paid paid for the first part of the order, and

805
00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 2: we'd been talking these guys off and on for nine

806
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 2: months and it all just kind of came together, and

807
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 2: so we did an acquisition deal with them, and they

808
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 2: basically wiped a weale our debt and completed the payment

809
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 2: for the shoe order, re routed the shoe order from

810
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,439
Speaker 2: you know, my running store, my buddy's basement to their

811
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 2: warehouse and all of a sudden, you know, we're technically

812
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 2: their employees and here we go, you know, and it

813
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 2: was still, you know, still super crazy after that, but

814
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 2: that took care of the funding piece, and we were

815
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 2: spending so much time trying to raise money that it

816
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 2: was really nice to be able to focus on other things.

817
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: And now, I mean the sneaker is not just one sneaker.

818
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, we make you know, twenty five models. We're about

819
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:51,720
Speaker 2: half outdoor like hiking, you know, ARII outdoor specialty stores,

820
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 2: and were about half running right now.

821
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: Something I kind of want to rewind back to really

822
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: quick is you mentioned casually that you used to run

823
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: like crazy distances, and by the way people run these

824
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,879
Speaker 1: races for that, I feel like, you know, when we're

825
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,399
Speaker 1: in this world of this health and fitness community, it's

826
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: kind of commonplace to know that people actually do go

827
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,280
Speaker 1: past the marathon distance and run fifty one hundred even

828
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,720
Speaker 1: more than that. So you did that kind of stuff.

829
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit.

830
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: Talk to me a little bit about the mental space

831
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: that comes with running that kind of race, because I

832
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, we're just hitting out all of

833
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 1: these different challenges in your life that really involve like

834
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: next level kind of mental capacity.

835
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean I was obviously very driven from a

836
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 2: young age, and you know, I always say, if we

837
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,240
Speaker 2: were doing it for health, we'd all run five ks,

838
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 2: and that really is true. If you're out there trying

839
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 2: to run for health, like five k train try to

840
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 2: learn to run a fast five k. But if you

841
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,800
Speaker 2: want a mental challenge, go run an ultra marathon, because

842
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 2: it is you know, it's a lot of physical, but

843
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 2: it's a lot of mental too. It's brutal. And my

844
00:41:53,760 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 2: first fifty miler, I you know, it stayed basically up

845
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 2: near eleven thousand feet for thirty miles and I had

846
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 2: altitude sickness, and halfway through the race, I'm leading the race,

847
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 2: but I'm like, it's sober delusional, Like you know, there's

848
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,760
Speaker 2: people asking me if I'm you know, I can run straight,

849
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 2: like I if I'm okay, Like I can't even think right,

850
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 2: you know, and you know, I just everything, and you

851
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 2: wants to drop out, and then like you sit down

852
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 2: and slam it and sure and eat part of a

853
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 2: burger and change your shoes and just start trudging back

854
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,760
Speaker 2: up the mountain, you know, and just see what happens.

855
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 2: And then it starts snowing on you, and then you like,

856
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 2: you know, just kind of get into a little bit

857
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 2: better place as it starts downhill, and then you almost

858
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 2: get struck by lightning, and then and then you know,

859
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 2: things start to roll and you just kind of like

860
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 2: fight through it. And you're like, no, I can do this.

861
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 2: We just like one foot in front of the other,

862
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 2: just make it happen. And it really is similar to

863
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 2: starting the shoe company in that it really was that

864
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 2: kind of space where it was like this could be

865
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 2: over at any second, Like I'm on the brink of

866
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 2: destruction here, and I really all I can do is

867
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 2: just put one foot in front of the other and

868
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 2: trust that something good is going to happen. And that's

869
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 2: all there is to it, you know.

870
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: I mean not everyone is in the place in their

871
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,280
Speaker 1: life to go train for an ultra marathon, but people

872
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 1: do all face their own challenges that feel like an

873
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,479
Speaker 1: ultra marathon for the people that really feel like they're

874
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: stuck in the mud training for their proverbial ultra marathon.

875
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: What kind of advice do you have for someone on

876
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,760
Speaker 1: that kind of challenge, Brank, I'd.

877
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 2: Say, like a couple things. First, look outside yourself, Like

878
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 2: the biggest thing, like I think is important in life

879
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 2: is like it's not about you, Like channel your energy

880
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 2: into building up people around you, do nice things for

881
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 2: other people. Do like just step outside yourself. You know

882
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 2: people say it, but it's such a big deal. Is

883
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 2: just believing, like believing in yourself, believing in like, you know,

884
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 2: if you are just positive and throw positive vibes out

885
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 2: there and do positive things and put positive things out

886
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 2: into the world, that it's all going to work out.

887
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, it's a huge part of it.

888
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 2: And people say like, yeah, well a lot of people

889
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 2: say it's all going to work out, and it's still sucked,

890
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 2: you know, And it's like, well, yeah, maybe it sucks

891
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 2: right now, but maybe the reason it sucks right now

892
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 2: is because it will change you and make you something,

893
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 2: build you into something bigger and something better that helps

894
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 2: you dominate later, you know. And so it's really hard

895
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 2: because this life is short, and it's really easy to

896
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 2: think like my life is crap right now, and we

897
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,240
Speaker 2: don't realize like it's just a small moment in time,

898
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 2: and even though it feels like crap right now, like

899
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 2: you can affect it, and we you know, largely you

900
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:44,760
Speaker 2: can't control your own destiny to a degree, and sometimes

901
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 2: you just have to get through it. And like the

902
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 2: ultra marathon thing, just like keep putting one foot in

903
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 2: front of the other and keep clawing and scratching and

904
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 2: fighting until you've changed into something bigger and better.

905
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 1: People get to a place where they take a misstep

906
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: and they feel like they've failed. But essentially what you're

907
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: saying is that you haven't failed, You've learned a lesson.

908
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, every mithstep is just it's just a chance

909
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:10,280
Speaker 2: to learn and get better.

910
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 1: For people at home who are looking for a sneaker, like,

911
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,359
Speaker 1: what kind of advice do you have for them when

912
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: they're just like going out, Like what should they be

913
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:20,240
Speaker 1: looking for? I mean everyone's different.

914
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean obviously I'm biased. I can tell you

915
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 2: what the research says, and the research says that the

916
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 2: shoe that you're going to be the most efficient and

917
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 2: least injured in is the shoe that you feel the

918
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 2: most comfortable, relaxed, free, barefoot like in. So basically you

919
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 2: feel like your foot is unencumbered, completely untethered toes, lost

920
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:43,359
Speaker 2: in space, just completely relaxed. Think bedroom slippers like and

921
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 2: the shoe. And there have been so many studies done

922
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 2: on this and they always come back to what the

923
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 2: researchers call the comfort filter. If you have those things,

924
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 2: you don't need excessive arch support. You know, arch support

925
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 2: is something you need because your heel is up in

926
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 2: the air, and your toes are crowded together, and it

927
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 2: compromises the integrity of the bone structure, and so all

928
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 2: of a sudden, like you need arch and so you know,

929
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 2: to me, it's it's fairly simple, like put on a

930
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 2: pair of shoes and actually run on them. Don't ever

931
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 2: judge a shoe boy, how it feels walking. If the

932
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 2: shoe doesn't feel too big, it's too small, Like you

933
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 2: should have a full thumbnail width between your longest toe

934
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 2: and the end of the shoe.

935
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about that. I feel like people

936
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 1: the most common thing that I see with new runners

937
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: is obviously that black toe. And if you're not a

938
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: huge runner, black toe is when it's exactly what it

939
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 1: sounds like. It's when your toenail turns black because you're

940
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: putting too much pressure on that area of your foot,

941
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 1: hence causing black toel.

942
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, me and my buddy's run, you know, hundreds of

943
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 2: miles and long races, you know, up to you know,

944
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 2: one hundred or even two hundred mile races and don't

945
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 2: get black toenails, don't get blisters. But part of that

946
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:45,439
Speaker 2: is just having a shoe that shape like a foot,

947
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 2: And the other part is getting it big enough. And

948
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 2: you know, if you look at it, eighty percent of

949
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 2: people buy their shoes too small. So that's that's big number.

950
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 2: Four out of five of us are walking around the

951
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 2: shoes are too small for our feet. Add to that

952
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 2: the fact that your foot is shaped mostly like a

953
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 2: square and your shoes are shaped triangular or kind of

954
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:08,399
Speaker 2: torpedo shaped like that just like compounds that problem. And

955
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 2: then on the on the female side, which is the

956
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 2: really sad side of things, most women's athletic shoes are

957
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 2: just takedowns of men's. They just like take shrinks and

958
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 2: volume off the top, throw some pink on it. I

959
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 2: call it shrink it and pink it, and call it

960
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 2: a woman's specific shoe. And it's bull crap, you know.

961
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,280
Speaker 2: So that's one thing that we totally engineer, one hundred

962
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,919
Speaker 2: percent separate, is our woman's shoes are completely different from

963
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 2: the men's. But the other thing is the average woman's

964
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 2: shoe is two sizeses narrower than the average woman's foot.

965
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,760
Speaker 2: So you just think of the Chinese footbinding you're doing

966
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,720
Speaker 2: to your feet, you know, American style, if you will.

967
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 2: That's something that's real and that's happening and so you

968
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 2: have to account for all that by just above all,

969
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 2: like get your shoes big enough, get them relaxed enough.

970
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 2: You should feel like the shoes too loose, if it

971
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 2: doesn't feel too loose up in the toes like you're

972
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 2: used to having it tight, you know, So it's it's

973
00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 2: just not right if it doesn't feel loose up there,

974
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 2: and that's huge, Like that makes a bigger difference than anything.

975
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: And also like giving it some time to get used

976
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: to that, because if you've been wearing your shoes so

977
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: tight for so long, when you put on the next

978
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: size size and a half up. I mean when I

979
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 1: started running, like eight years ago, I was one hundred

980
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: percent wearing true to sized sneakers. I was wearing a

981
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 1: ten and sometimes at nine and a half. I have

982
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 1: big feet. Yes, I was wearing a ten, sometimes a

983
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,720
Speaker 1: nine and a half because I liked how they felt

984
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 1: tight on my foot. But then I got the black

985
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: toenails and I was like.

986
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 2: You might like it, but it's bad.

987
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 1: Oh, now I wear nothing under a ten and a half. Yeah.

988
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: I tried to stick to the ten and a half

989
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: and that's the eleven. The eleven is just too I

990
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: can't I can't muster that in my head.

991
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,320
Speaker 2: That's another thing to me, like a it's just a number.

992
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:42,919
Speaker 2: Be nobody cares like and three ladies, Like, no guy

993
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 2: looks at your feet and is like, oh, she's got

994
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 2: big feet. Not half of men like that just doesn't happen,

995
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 2: Like nobody even looks there. You know, it's like a

996
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 2: trust me, it's the last place guys. And you know

997
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 2: the other thing is like for us at our running

998
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 2: short we knew what size is sold best. Our best

999
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 2: selling wom's shoes had was nine and a half. So

1000
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,359
Speaker 2: everyone thinks that every lady is a seven. That like

1001
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:06,399
Speaker 2: never happens. That's like once a week, once every two

1002
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 2: weeks we would sell seven, where we're selling nine and

1003
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:10,919
Speaker 2: a half tens all day every day.

1004
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: So talk to me a little bit about what your

1005
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: fitness routine looks like. Now obviously you said you're still

1006
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,839
Speaker 1: not at one hundred, which has got to be an

1007
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: interesting thing to kind of deal with so many years later.

1008
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I travel enough for work that I'm not super hardcore,

1009
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 2: but I think a lot of people would would say it,

1010
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 2: I'm pretty hardcore at the same time, So I run

1011
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 2: three to four days a week if I'm lucky. I

1012
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 2: take three months off every year. I always have. I

1013
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:39,320
Speaker 2: read that the best runners in the world, the Kenyans,

1014
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,439
Speaker 2: do that. So I'm like, if the Olympians are taking

1015
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 2: two three months off every year, I can do that too.

1016
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 2: So I don't run at all for two to three months.

1017
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 2: I'm just finishing that right.

1018
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: Now, two to three months.

1019
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 2: It just depends whatever I feel like. But it's usually winter,

1020
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 2: you know, good timing, really good timing. Yeah, can ski

1021
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 2: and snowboard and stuff. So I do spartan races as well.

1022
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,240
Speaker 2: Obstacle course. So I've got a whole like rig underneath

1023
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:04,240
Speaker 2: my deck at home, and we're actually putting a climbing

1024
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:05,359
Speaker 2: wall in right now in the house.

1025
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 1: Normal human activity, normal human activity.

1026
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 2: And it's just like fun stuff like you get to

1027
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 2: go climb around walls in your house and do monkey

1028
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 2: bars under your deck and uh, you know, stuff like that.

1029
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 2: So I do that and burpies and push ups and

1030
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 2: pull ups and simple stuff like. It's nothing super complicated. Virtually,

1031
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,479
Speaker 2: anybody invites me to do anything athletic, I'm gonna be like, yeah, come,

1032
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 2: you know, so it could be ultimate frisbee, one big

1033
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 2: one week flag football, the next basketball, the next you know,

1034
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 2: and I really believe doing those things that do side

1035
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 2: to side movements are huge for preventing running injuries because

1036
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 2: most running injuries have nothing to do with impact, scientifically speaking,

1037
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,320
Speaker 2: they have everything to do with muscle distribution. And humans

1038
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 2: were not built to walk or run on flat ground.

1039
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 2: It is just not how our muscle structure is set up.

1040
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 2: So doing things, you know, trail running is an example

1041
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 2: of getting more side to side in but you know,

1042
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 2: anything with side to side motion is huge for fixing

1043
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 2: that stuff. So that's kind of where I focus everything

1044
00:50:59,040 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 2: else on.

1045
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 1: Just a wealth of knowledge, a huge wealth of knowledge.

1046
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 1: I want to end this on a positive note. You

1047
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: look back on where you started, You reflect on that

1048
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:16,359
Speaker 1: time that you were selling shoes in the store and

1049
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: you were putting sneakers in the toaster. What is one

1050
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:21,319
Speaker 1: piece of advice you would have given the guy who

1051
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 1: slicing up the shoe to put the shoe in the toaster?

1052
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 2: Don't stress out too much? Like like I said, we're

1053
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 2: on the brink of destructions so many times, and I

1054
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 2: would get you know you just of course you're stressed

1055
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 2: because you love it and you believe in it. But

1056
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,840
Speaker 2: at the same time, like it'll be what it'll be,

1057
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 2: and like you just put everything you can into it,

1058
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 2: put all the positivity you can into it, believe in it,

1059
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 2: be positive, and just like trust that things will work

1060
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 2: out the way they're supposed to either way.

1061
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 1: Golden, it was so awesome to have you here. I

1062
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 1: feel like I've learned so much from you. Thanks so

1063
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 1: much for coming in. I think we're going to cut

1064
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: it here. Please take a moment to leave a quick

1065
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 1: review by clicking the link with the description to this episode.

1066
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 1: We all face multiple hurdles in life. I want to

1067
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 1: hear about yours. Reach Out to me at Emily at

1068
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 1: hurdle dot us. Connect with the podcast on Instagram and

1069
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 1: Twitter at Hurdle Podcast, and feel free to check us

1070
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 1: both on social media as well. Golden, what's your handle

1071
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: at run Golden one and for Ultra at Ultra Running Beautiful.

1072
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:26,799
Speaker 1: I'm at Emily a body that's a b b ate.

1073
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,799
Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning in, guys, Another hurdle conquered. See you

1074
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:32,359
Speaker 1: next time.