WEBVTT - It’s Time for Chambers Bay to Get Another Major

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<v Speaker 1>I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When

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<v Speaker 1>I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

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<v Speaker 1>And when I find my ball.

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<v Speaker 2>In a bride egg, Frida Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg, Friday,

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<v Speaker 2>Frida Egg Egg, Frida Egg, Bride Egg, Lie, I'm about

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<v Speaker 2>ready to run off of the hump. Hello and welcome

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<v Speaker 2>to the Frida Egg Podcast. My name is Garrett Morrison,

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<v Speaker 2>and today we are talking about Chambers Bay in the

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<v Speaker 2>future of USGA venue selection. The us Women's Amateur was

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<v Speaker 2>just held at Chambers Bay this past week and I

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<v Speaker 2>was there for the last day of it. It was

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<v Speaker 2>a delightful experience. So we'll talk a little bit about that,

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<v Speaker 2>but also talk about the general context of venue selection

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<v Speaker 2>for the big championships that the USGA runs, PGA of

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<v Speaker 2>America as well, and where Chambers Bay might fit into

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<v Speaker 2>that and other courses as well. I think it's a

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<v Speaker 2>kind of rich topic right now. There's a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>things happening on that front. But to discuss all of

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<v Speaker 2>that with me today, I have none other than Andy Johnson. Andy,

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<v Speaker 2>how you doing. You're back You're grounded again after an

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<v Speaker 2>active few weeks of travel here.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, back at the end laws. So you know

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<v Speaker 1>from live from the in law's basement, just a place

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<v Speaker 1>the podcaster belongs. You know, if you haven't recorded a

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<v Speaker 1>podcast from your own parents' basement or your in lass basement,

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<v Speaker 1>you're not really doing podcasting.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, So the stereotype is true.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. How was the weekend You've been on the

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<v Speaker 1>road too, how's the weekend at Chambers?

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<v Speaker 2>It was fantastic. I mean I scheduled this not only

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<v Speaker 2>because I live fairly close. I'm about a two and

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<v Speaker 2>a half hour drive from Chambers here in Portland, but

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<v Speaker 2>also because I remember, I think you and I discussed this.

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<v Speaker 2>I attended that live event in Portland, right, So I

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<v Speaker 2>spent a few days there covering that event. And the

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<v Speaker 2>first thing I did when I came back from that

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<v Speaker 2>when that concluded is I reached out to Julia Pine

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<v Speaker 2>at the USGA. By the way, Julia Pine as good

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<v Speaker 2>at her job as anybody in golf, She's fantastic. Reached

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<v Speaker 2>out to her and said, hey, how about a credential

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<v Speaker 2>to the US Women's Amateur I need a palate cleanser

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<v Speaker 2>after what I've just experienced to live. And it was

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<v Speaker 2>just that it was really wonderful. I wish I had

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<v Speaker 2>gotten to be there more, but we just had a

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<v Speaker 2>trip to Sandhills, the Nebraska Sandhills this past week as

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<v Speaker 2>well that we needed to do, And so I came

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<v Speaker 2>back home on Friday evening and put in an appearance

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<v Speaker 2>at home with the kids a little bit, and then

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<v Speaker 2>left again on Saturday afternoon to get up to Chambers Bay.

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<v Speaker 2>Stayed the night there and was able to be there

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<v Speaker 2>for the entire final match at Chambers Bay between Sake

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<v Speaker 2>Baba and Monet Chun. Now it just lasted twenty seven holes,

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<v Speaker 2>which was a bit of a bummer. I wish it

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<v Speaker 2>had gone the full thirty six, you know, being at

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<v Speaker 2>Chambers during the sunset hours and watching golf what would

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<v Speaker 2>have just been wonderful. But Saki Baba had other ideas.

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<v Speaker 2>She was she was really really dominant on the weekend,

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<v Speaker 2>just a terrific player and uh and so that was

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<v Speaker 2>fun to watch in its own right. But I got

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<v Speaker 2>a good look at Chambers Bay as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what were were your what are your impressions of

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<v Speaker 1>Chambers Bays. It's a place that I haven't been obviously.

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<v Speaker 1>I enjoyed watching the the US Open out there. But

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<v Speaker 1>you know, there's a lot of on course and off

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<v Speaker 1>course controversy with that one, and uh and uh. I.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, obviously they've put in a lot of work

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<v Speaker 1>since that US opened. They've resotted their greens with a

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<v Speaker 1>POA bent mixture, So the greens were obviously the divisive

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<v Speaker 1>topic among a few other things out there. But how

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<v Speaker 1>how was it?

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<v Speaker 2>Well? It was incredible, But why don't we start with

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<v Speaker 2>like how does it look on TV? You know, the

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<v Speaker 2>twenty fifteen US Open, which which was held at Chambers

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<v Speaker 2>Bay and was pretty controversial, is not one that I

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<v Speaker 2>really watched. I kind of missed that open. What did

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<v Speaker 2>Chambers Bay look like on TV? For that US Open?

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<v Speaker 2>What do you remember of that?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it was it looked great. I think That's

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<v Speaker 1>always the thing is like when you talk about a venue,

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<v Speaker 1>it's interesting because like there there are so many factors

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<v Speaker 1>that go into it. Is how is it for the competitors?

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<v Speaker 1>How is it for the championship conducting a venue there,

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<v Speaker 1>like in terms of infrastructure everything? How is it for

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<v Speaker 1>the crowds? How is it for you know, people that

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<v Speaker 1>attend and paid ticket, pay for tickets and go and

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<v Speaker 1>then how how does it show on TV. I think

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<v Speaker 1>from the television standpoint, it showed really well, Like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>any time that you have golf on a body of water,

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<v Speaker 1>that's always going to provide amazing visuals. And then with

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<v Speaker 1>the weather in the Pacific Northwest in the summer, it's

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<v Speaker 1>so predictable that like you know, you're going to get

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<v Speaker 1>a firm tournament and out there the course is designed

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<v Speaker 1>to have balls bounce in and bounce, and that golf course,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll never forget the videos leading in when people are

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<v Speaker 1>bouncing balls, you know, like a basketball on the turf.

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<v Speaker 1>But like that's the thing about that golf course is

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<v Speaker 1>that it I it's hard to look at the leaderboard

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<v Speaker 1>and especially the demands that were placed on competitors in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty fifteen and not think that it deserved another shot

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<v Speaker 1>after if it fixed the greens right, you know, especially

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<v Speaker 1>because like we're not talking, this course isn't in New York.

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<v Speaker 1>This course isn't surrounded by like a plethora of championship

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<v Speaker 1>golf options. This is a golf course in a large,

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<v Speaker 1>huge part of the country that's devoid of championship golf

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<v Speaker 1>but also affords any tournament the excellent primetime viewing for

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<v Speaker 1>the biggest media markets. That's the thing, is, like I

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<v Speaker 1>just like I really wonder, Like, you know, obviously, having

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<v Speaker 1>an event in New York City is great for a

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<v Speaker 1>local market and they can go, but I'd imagine that

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<v Speaker 1>more people from New York City would watch an event

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<v Speaker 1>in Washington because the hours that it would be on

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<v Speaker 1>in a time of the year when there isn't a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of stuff on TV.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, West Coast is great for TV viewing across the

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<v Speaker 2>nation basically, right. We hear people say this every time

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<v Speaker 2>there's a tournament in California. Oh, yeah, this is these

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<v Speaker 2>are great hours. This is primetime golf essentially, right, And

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<v Speaker 2>it's just interesting that we haven't seemed to figure out

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<v Speaker 2>a major championship venue in the Pacific Northwest that really sticks.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, There've been a couple of majors at Saholly

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<v Speaker 2>Country Club, which is a really heavily trade courses, very narrow.

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<v Speaker 2>I believe that nineteen ninety eight PGA Championship was held there,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, it hasn't really made an impression that

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<v Speaker 2>really that course has not found its way into the

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<v Speaker 2>rota for the PGA Championship or the US Open. Pumpkin

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<v Speaker 2>Ridge was another potential major venue. It held a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of US Women's Opens, but never got a US opener

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<v Speaker 2>PGA championship. And now Pumpkin Ridge is fully in the

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<v Speaker 2>hands of Live Golf, right that's now going to be

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<v Speaker 2>what looks like an annual venue, and there's a thirst

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<v Speaker 2>for high level golf in Portland. You know, there's a

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<v Speaker 2>great LPGA Tour tournament, the Cambia Portland Classic, that has

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<v Speaker 2>been held mostly at Columbia Edgewater in recent years, and

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<v Speaker 2>that's a pretty cool venue and it's a very good event.

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<v Speaker 2>There's been a corn Ferry Tour event in Portland that

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<v Speaker 2>was held at Pumpkin Ridge, but that's no longer going.

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<v Speaker 2>And so I think that this region is just underserved.

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<v Speaker 2>I know that everybody feels like their region is underserved

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<v Speaker 2>by golf tournaments, but the Pacific Northwest has two really

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<v Speaker 2>big cities, Portland and Seattle, that have active golf cultures,

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<v Speaker 2>and I feel like it's a missed opportunity not to

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<v Speaker 2>be taking big championships to this region on a regular basis.

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<v Speaker 2>And I believe that Chambers Bay is far and away

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<v Speaker 2>the best candidate for a consistent major Championship venue being

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<v Speaker 2>there for the US Women's Amateur on Sunday. My big

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<v Speaker 2>overall impression of this course, and I think this comes

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<v Speaker 2>through on TV as well. It's this huge arena. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>There's this walking path on top of a bluff that

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<v Speaker 2>overlooks the course, and the course is sort of in

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<v Speaker 2>this bowl that's right against Puget Sound and the railroad

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<v Speaker 2>that runs along the shore of Puget Sound, and so

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<v Speaker 2>when you're in there, when you get up high, you

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<v Speaker 2>can see the whole course and all the action is

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<v Speaker 2>just kind of happening in this huge bowl. Now, a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit of history for this site. The reason that

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<v Speaker 2>the site is shaped in this kind of un unique

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<v Speaker 2>arena like way is that before it was a golf

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<v Speaker 2>course for decades, it was the site of a mining

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<v Speaker 2>operation sand and gravel and stuff like that. And so

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<v Speaker 2>essentially that activity took a huge bite out of this

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<v Speaker 2>piece of land, pushed the big bluff back inland, so

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<v Speaker 2>that it formed this bowl or this arena that the

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<v Speaker 2>golf course now sits in. And I haven't really been

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<v Speaker 2>to a golf course that is quite like this. I

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<v Speaker 2>really can't think of a comparison. You know, it's a

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<v Speaker 2>unique looking and feeling place. It's really really beautiful. The

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<v Speaker 2>views are sensational. I thought it was a great place

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<v Speaker 2>to watch a golf tournament. The architecture of the course

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<v Speaker 2>is also very interesting, and we can get into details

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<v Speaker 2>of that if you want, But as far as the

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<v Speaker 2>spectator experience is concerned, I thought it was fantastic for

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<v Speaker 2>a US Women's Amateur, with everybody kind of walking down

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<v Speaker 2>the fairways without ropes and following the play like that.

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<v Speaker 2>The problem will become for a tournament of the size

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<v Speaker 2>of a US Open, that the galleries are going to

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<v Speaker 2>be pushed to the sides right, and they're going to

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<v Speaker 2>be walking through sand and these these really abrupt, dunelike

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<v Speaker 2>shapes alongside the fairways. And I think at the US

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<v Speaker 2>Open in twenty fifteen that spectators had a hard time

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<v Speaker 2>getting around the course.

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<v Speaker 1>There are a lot of sprained ankles. I believe. I

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<v Speaker 1>think they had to, like eventually like pos strategically position

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<v Speaker 1>paramedics around the course to be able to field all

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<v Speaker 1>the sprained ankles.

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<v Speaker 2>Well. People were eating it constantly out there, even at

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<v Speaker 2>the US Women's Amateur, where there wasn't as much of

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<v Speaker 2>a crowd as there obviously would be for a US

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<v Speaker 2>Women's Open or a US Open. People were falling down

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<v Speaker 2>those dunes a lot because they are pretty sharp, right,

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<v Speaker 2>They have this peak and then they go down.

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<v Speaker 1>Sharply, and the grass is slippery because it's like a fescue,

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<v Speaker 1>So then the grass is especially in the rpprey.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I slipped and fell on my butt like on

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<v Speaker 2>the second whole of the final match, like, and it

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<v Speaker 2>just sort of came out of nowhere. I was going

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<v Speaker 2>down this dune and then all of a sudden, I

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<v Speaker 2>was on my ass, and you look around, and this

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<v Speaker 2>was happening a lot. At one point, I was filming

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<v Speaker 2>the train going by the seventeenth hole just as the

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<v Speaker 2>players were playing. The train kind of comes by on

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<v Speaker 2>that railroad that runs by Puget Sound in between Puget

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<v Speaker 2>Sound and the golf course. It's kind of a cool

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<v Speaker 2>little local color thing. So I was filming the train

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<v Speaker 2>and in the lower corner of my screen, a guy

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<v Speaker 2>just comes tumbling into the frame, you know, falling down

0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:38.040
<v Speaker 2>a dune. I didn't obviously didn't expect or intend to

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<v Speaker 2>catch that, but that was just what was happening. And

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<v Speaker 2>so I think that people who attended the twenty fifteen

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<v Speaker 2>US Open probably didn't have a good on site experience.

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<v Speaker 2>They need to build grandstands there, right. They need to

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<v Speaker 2>set up that site so that it's not as kind

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<v Speaker 2>of walking dependent. It should be a place where you

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<v Speaker 2>can sit and watch, because if you sit in one

0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:01.760
<v Speaker 2>place and you're up you can see a whole lot

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<v Speaker 2>of holes all at once. Get a pair of binoculars,

0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.440
<v Speaker 2>you'll be able to see golf pretty much throughout the course.

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<v Speaker 2>There are very few holes that you can't see if

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<v Speaker 2>you're up high enough, and so I think that that's

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<v Speaker 2>got to be the method that they use. But you know,

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<v Speaker 2>for a tournament like the US Women's Amateur, if they

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<v Speaker 2>bring a US Amateur there, I think that it's really

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<v Speaker 2>fun to walk that course and look at the views.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not the easiest walk in the world, but it's

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<v Speaker 2>definitely walkable. It's a walking only course. In fact, when

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<v Speaker 2>during regular play, and I just had a wonderful time

0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:39.040
<v Speaker 2>being there, seeing the sites, watching these great players play

0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:41.840
<v Speaker 2>these holes in a strategic way. I thought it was

0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.480
<v Speaker 2>wonderful and I just sort of wished that bigger tournaments

0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.760
<v Speaker 2>would come there with more frequency. Now, the reputation of

0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.840
<v Speaker 2>the course took a hit in twenty fifteen, not only

0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:54.480
<v Speaker 2>because of the on site spectator experience and what people

0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:58.200
<v Speaker 2>said about that, but also because of the TV watching experience.

0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:01.640
<v Speaker 2>People saw a brown course, heard the players complaining about

0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.560
<v Speaker 2>putting on broccoli, which is how Hendrik Stenson put it.

0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:08.480
<v Speaker 2>The greens died basically in twenty fifteen. They screwed up.

0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:11.920
<v Speaker 2>But the course is terrific and I wish that the

0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:15.199
<v Speaker 2>optics weren't such that it's hard to take a big

0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.480
<v Speaker 2>championship back there.

0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:19.800
<v Speaker 1>What are your favorite aspects of the golf course.

0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.080
<v Speaker 2>It all starts with the firmness of the turf, and

0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:26.199
<v Speaker 2>the holes are designed so that you can use the ground.

0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:29.480
<v Speaker 2>Going into a lot of these greens, there are wonderful

0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:33.080
<v Speaker 2>kind of feeding contours and rejecting contours, so you know,

0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.040
<v Speaker 2>depending on the angle that you're approaching a green from

0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:38.960
<v Speaker 2>those contours can either help or hurt you. And when

0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:40.960
<v Speaker 2>your ball lands, it's not going to stay in the

0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:43.240
<v Speaker 2>same place, it's going to run. You know. That's just

0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:47.960
<v Speaker 2>one thing that enhances strategy. There are individual holes out

0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:52.000
<v Speaker 2>there that are just really memorable and stick out immediately.

0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:55.360
<v Speaker 2>I think the variety of the course is outstanding. You

0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.120
<v Speaker 2>play that course once and you're probably going to remember

0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:01.960
<v Speaker 2>every hole because you're getting different looks, you know, different

0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:05.680
<v Speaker 2>playing strategies with each hole. The holes really don't blend together,

0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:08.600
<v Speaker 2>which I think is an achievement because the site wasn't

0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.959
<v Speaker 2>exactly ideal for golf to begin with. It was this

0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:15.320
<v Speaker 2>kind of mining place, and you know, the mining operation

0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:19.040
<v Speaker 2>had left some really interesting landforms, but it wasn't necessarily

0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:21.440
<v Speaker 2>well suited to the game, and so they had to

0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:23.520
<v Speaker 2>move a lot of dirt around in order to make

0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:26.400
<v Speaker 2>golf work. And I think they did an excellent job

0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:31.240
<v Speaker 2>of creating golf there, making it play well. But also,

0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, to go on to another subject, the aesthetics

0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:39.440
<v Speaker 2>of the course. They retained some of the industrial look

0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.000
<v Speaker 2>of the site in creating the golf course, and so

0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:45.400
<v Speaker 2>I really like how the shapes of the golf course

0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:48.840
<v Speaker 2>remind you in a way not only of kind of

0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:52.520
<v Speaker 2>links golf, irish links golf, big spectacular dunes, but also

0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:56.360
<v Speaker 2>it reminds you of industrial work in a way because

0:14:56.360 --> 0:15:00.560
<v Speaker 2>the dunes are sort of so sharply shaped and and

0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:04.880
<v Speaker 2>they look kind of jagged, and they make you think

0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:09.680
<v Speaker 2>of a big industrial mining operation. Even as it's a

0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.240
<v Speaker 2>very playable golf course, so I think the look of

0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:15.320
<v Speaker 2>the course is cool. There are some critiques to be

0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:18.120
<v Speaker 2>made of the architecture out there. I think I should

0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:21.520
<v Speaker 2>mention that it was Robert Trent Jones Junior's firm that

0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:26.680
<v Speaker 2>built this course, and on site supervising the construction was

0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:31.720
<v Speaker 2>Bruce Charlton RTJ two's lead associate, I believe, and j

0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:35.800
<v Speaker 2>Blasi was also very involved in the design and build

0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:39.120
<v Speaker 2>of this course, and so there's a really talented team

0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:41.920
<v Speaker 2>out there. J Blazi in particular has gone on to

0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:45.440
<v Speaker 2>be a very impressive architect in his own right, and

0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:48.680
<v Speaker 2>so they did some really really interesting things out there.

0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.000
<v Speaker 2>But there are some other ways in which you can

0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:55.480
<v Speaker 2>critique the course. I would specifically zero in on the

0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:57.720
<v Speaker 2>routing of the front nine, which I think is a

0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:01.360
<v Speaker 2>little bit clunky in some places. There's a big walk

0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.520
<v Speaker 2>between the third green and the fourth tee, and whenever

0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:08.120
<v Speaker 2>I see that, I'm just like, you know, for a

0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:11.000
<v Speaker 2>pretty manufactured course, right, for a course where they were

0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:14.040
<v Speaker 2>able to kind of build what they wanted, maybe they

0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:16.160
<v Speaker 2>should have figured out how not to have that big

0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:19.080
<v Speaker 2>walk between the green and the tee on the front nine. Also,

0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:21.000
<v Speaker 2>there's a couple of holes that kind of play straight

0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.680
<v Speaker 2>up the hill, the main hill of the site, in

0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.440
<v Speaker 2>pretty similar ways. And I think that these were just

0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:30.240
<v Speaker 2>sacrifices that they made in order to make other holes

0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:33.000
<v Speaker 2>on the course work. They were looking to find the

0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.960
<v Speaker 2>best and the toughest holes possible, and so the routing

0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:39.080
<v Speaker 2>of the front nine in particular suffers a little bit

0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:41.520
<v Speaker 2>because of that. But the back nine, I think really

0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:44.880
<v Speaker 2>clicks together well, the routing works better. I think that

0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:47.160
<v Speaker 2>is the more consistent nine overall.

0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:52.760
<v Speaker 1>So I think it opens a really interesting conversation because

0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:56.640
<v Speaker 1>I think there's a backlash with Chambers Bay and then

0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.400
<v Speaker 1>Aaron Hills, and you know they weren't back to back,

0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:02.680
<v Speaker 1>but close together, brand new golf courses. It was really

0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:06.960
<v Speaker 1>a new trend, a new initiative, a new thought process

0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:08.119
<v Speaker 1>with the US Open.

0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this was kind of Mike Davis driven, right, Yes,

0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:14.160
<v Speaker 2>was Aaron Hills to twenty seventeen.

0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:17.760
<v Speaker 1>Right, so two years after so and you have these

0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:20.840
<v Speaker 1>golf courses that were built, there were no history, and

0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:25.040
<v Speaker 1>they were built with the idea of championship golf and

0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:29.000
<v Speaker 1>US opened specifically in mind. Both of these courses, Aaron

0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:33.000
<v Speaker 1>Hills and Chambers Bay, and I think there was this

0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.880
<v Speaker 1>backlash because you know, in the sense of Chambers Bay

0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:40.120
<v Speaker 1>had the putting greens, which was the big issue. I think,

0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.320
<v Speaker 1>like the the idea of greens and the sanctity of

0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:47.119
<v Speaker 1>the championship was really like in question was this a

0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.399
<v Speaker 1>good championship because it was you couldn't make a putt,

0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:53.240
<v Speaker 1>it was bouncing all around. And then at Aaron Hills

0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:55.800
<v Speaker 1>we had, you know, a par seventy two, which never

0:17:55.880 --> 0:18:00.560
<v Speaker 1>happens in US Opens. The wind didn't blow, and of

0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:05.600
<v Speaker 1>course that kind of plays remarkably harder when the wind blows.

0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:08.760
<v Speaker 1>So you have a par seventy two in sixteen underwins

0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:10.840
<v Speaker 1>and people are like, this is too easy, this is

0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:13.680
<v Speaker 1>too easy. And in both cases I think they got

0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:17.240
<v Speaker 1>tough shakes because a everybody always wants to complain about

0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:20.080
<v Speaker 1>the US Open and the course. That's like an annual tradition,

0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:22.960
<v Speaker 1>and it seems like the USGA is doing all they

0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:26.720
<v Speaker 1>can to stop that, and potentially, you know, in a

0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:29.840
<v Speaker 1>way that makes it a little bit less provocative and

0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.600
<v Speaker 1>a little bit less interesting with their setup. But with

0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:39.119
<v Speaker 1>these tournaments, they became kind of like the sacrificial Lamb

0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:42.119
<v Speaker 1>in a way, you know, these golf courses just have

0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:46.679
<v Speaker 1>been you know it ironically, the Aaron Hills is hosting

0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.919
<v Speaker 1>the US mid Am this year, a similar thing like

0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:53.159
<v Speaker 1>where this tournament, this course was really groomed, and you know,

0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:56.720
<v Speaker 1>the USGA was very involved in the building of both

0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:00.359
<v Speaker 1>of these courses for championship golf. And here we are,

0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:03.919
<v Speaker 1>you know, five six years later, seven years later, and

0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:07.240
<v Speaker 1>these are hosting you know, not even you know, the

0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:10.320
<v Speaker 1>US Women's Am is a is a high level USGA event,

0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:12.200
<v Speaker 1>but the mid Am you know, kind of a mid

0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:15.639
<v Speaker 1>tier event for Aaron Hills, where you know, it was

0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:19.320
<v Speaker 1>expected kind of if you talked in twenty thirteen about

0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:22.320
<v Speaker 1>each of these courses, both of them were kind of

0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:25.919
<v Speaker 1>Chambers Bay was open at that time, but Aaron Hills

0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:30.359
<v Speaker 1>was It was open also, but undergoing modifications, like these

0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:34.199
<v Speaker 1>courses were expected to host many US Opens and with

0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:38.359
<v Speaker 1>the US Open and the US Women's Open schedule, like release,

0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:41.080
<v Speaker 1>Aaron Hills has a US Women's Open coming in a

0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:45.080
<v Speaker 1>couple of years, but there's very little Chambers Bay and

0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.560
<v Speaker 1>Aaron Hills on the schedule otherwise. And these were you know,

0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.760
<v Speaker 1>and I think, like you know, if you go back

0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:54.120
<v Speaker 1>in time, and I think the knee jerk reaction center

0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:56.800
<v Speaker 1>around this isn't where I want to win my US

0:19:56.880 --> 0:19:59.920
<v Speaker 1>Open or US Women's Open venues. Matter was the mess

0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:04.639
<v Speaker 1>from players to the USGA, and that got them to

0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:09.720
<v Speaker 1>remove these courses for the most part without history. But

0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:13.480
<v Speaker 1>the reality is it's like, when you think about these

0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:17.720
<v Speaker 1>championships fifty years from now, the only way you get

0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:19.800
<v Speaker 1>history at a venue is if you get to go

0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:24.040
<v Speaker 1>to the venue, you know, And this combined with the

0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:30.840
<v Speaker 1>USGA and the PGA really both major championshipanizations, both organizations

0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:36.359
<v Speaker 1>gobbling up sites, booking out their championship for decades, it

0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:39.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, there's no space for a new venue to

0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:44.240
<v Speaker 1>actually become one of our iconic championship sites. And to me,

0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:47.840
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of short sighted because you know, if you

0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:51.560
<v Speaker 1>go back in history and read what players were talking about,

0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:54.640
<v Speaker 1>what they would say about certain courses when they were

0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:57.840
<v Speaker 1>on the championship schedule in the early nineteen hundreds, for

0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:00.840
<v Speaker 1>the first time, there were a critique. There are players

0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:03.879
<v Speaker 1>that were upset, there were revisions, there were there were

0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:07.920
<v Speaker 1>modifications that happened to these golf courses, but like they

0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:12.600
<v Speaker 1>didn't just get excommunicated from the opportunity to host, and

0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:17.520
<v Speaker 1>especially given Chambers Bay in the location, it just seems

0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:19.760
<v Speaker 1>to be if you're going to have a national championship,

0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:23.199
<v Speaker 1>you have to have a national championship that's hosted in

0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:26.080
<v Speaker 1>the Pacific Northwest. You can't just ignore parts of the

0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:28.760
<v Speaker 1>country and part of that, you know, with the way

0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:32.040
<v Speaker 1>they've booked it out, it's not just the Pacific Northwest.

0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:36.080
<v Speaker 1>It's the Great Plains, it's the Midwest, it's the it's this,

0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:39.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, the South has has no you know, there's

0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:41.359
<v Speaker 1>very little venues there.

0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:44.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, just to give people an idea of how

0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:50.440
<v Speaker 2>booked the US Open is for one next year, LACC

0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:55.200
<v Speaker 2>Los Angeles Country Club North Course, Pinehurst Number two, twenty

0:21:55.240 --> 0:22:00.320
<v Speaker 2>twenty four, twenty twenty nine, twenty thirty five, twenty forty one,

0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:05.040
<v Speaker 2>twenty forty seven, Oakmont twenty twenty five, twenty thirty three,

0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:10.119
<v Speaker 2>twenty forty two, twenty forty nine, Pebble Beach twenty twenty seven,

0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:15.400
<v Speaker 2>twenty thirty two, twenty thirty seven, twenty forty four. I mean,

0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:18.560
<v Speaker 2>that just doesn't leave much space, and there are other

0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:20.480
<v Speaker 2>courses booked for some of the other years, you know,

0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:24.200
<v Speaker 2>Shinnecock has one coming up in its future. You've said

0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:27.920
<v Speaker 2>this on the Shotgun Start previously. Pebble Beach and Pinehurst

0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:31.520
<v Speaker 2>Number two in particular, those are great courses, Those are

0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:35.320
<v Speaker 2>US Open courses. The US Open should go there, Should

0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:39.200
<v Speaker 2>it go there three times a decade? No, I mean

0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:42.440
<v Speaker 2>that just doesn't leave space for as as you're indicating

0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:45.200
<v Speaker 2>fresh blood to come in. First of all, it also

0:22:45.240 --> 0:22:48.760
<v Speaker 2>doesn't leave space for courses like Shinnecock Hills and the

0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:52.280
<v Speaker 2>country Club and other classic US Open venues that need

0:22:52.320 --> 0:22:55.480
<v Speaker 2>to be visited on a regular basis but can't be

0:22:55.480 --> 0:23:00.199
<v Speaker 2>because they've simply booked up the years so much at

0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:04.399
<v Speaker 2>this point. Now, at first, the idea of these anchor

0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:08.800
<v Speaker 2>sites Pebble Beach, Oakmont and Pinehurst Number two, you know,

0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:12.720
<v Speaker 2>kind of definitive US Open venues being identified as such,

0:23:13.200 --> 0:23:15.879
<v Speaker 2>seemed like a good idea, and I think it is

0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:18.199
<v Speaker 2>a good idea. I think that the USGA deserves some

0:23:18.280 --> 0:23:22.800
<v Speaker 2>credit for leaning into classic courses like these are great,

0:23:23.080 --> 0:23:27.760
<v Speaker 2>great venues for a championship. But maybe we've just gone

0:23:27.760 --> 0:23:32.200
<v Speaker 2>a little bit overboard here by assigning so many future

0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:35.840
<v Speaker 2>US Opens to these This same kind of handful of courses.

0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:40.119
<v Speaker 2>It just doesn't allow other courses to enter the ROTA,

0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:44.320
<v Speaker 2>and it doesn't allow the ROTA to be consistently refreshed.

0:23:44.359 --> 0:23:46.879
<v Speaker 2>I mean it almost makes you consider your mortality, Like

0:23:46.920 --> 0:23:49.000
<v Speaker 2>how old are we going to be in twenty fifty

0:23:49.040 --> 0:23:53.120
<v Speaker 2>four when some of these championships are booked for who

0:23:53.200 --> 0:23:55.120
<v Speaker 2>knows what the world is going to be like then

0:23:55.960 --> 0:23:58.119
<v Speaker 2>why do we need to go that far forward in

0:23:58.200 --> 0:24:02.159
<v Speaker 2>time and dating what US open venues are going to be?

0:24:02.600 --> 0:24:05.639
<v Speaker 1>So you got two dates open in the next you know,

0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:09.159
<v Speaker 1>ten years, and when you look across the next like thirty,

0:24:09.200 --> 0:24:12.880
<v Speaker 1>there are very few dates in there. I mean, Chambers

0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:17.399
<v Speaker 1>Bay probably deserves a second shot, and all indications they

0:24:17.440 --> 0:24:20.560
<v Speaker 1>went and fixed the big problem, right. But the other

0:24:20.640 --> 0:24:24.359
<v Speaker 1>thing that happens is like, hey, what if the greatest

0:24:24.600 --> 0:24:27.800
<v Speaker 1>golf course of the world gets built next year and

0:24:27.880 --> 0:24:31.480
<v Speaker 1>they want to host major championships. Why is it there

0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:32.120
<v Speaker 1>just space?

0:24:32.760 --> 0:24:33.480
<v Speaker 2>There's no room?

0:24:33.800 --> 0:24:36.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, you know what if it was the greatest

0:24:36.480 --> 0:24:38.720
<v Speaker 1>course that it's built and it's open to the public

0:24:38.840 --> 0:24:41.639
<v Speaker 1>and they have like a great cause behind it, and

0:24:41.680 --> 0:24:43.720
<v Speaker 1>everybody's like, well, we want we got to have a

0:24:43.800 --> 0:24:46.960
<v Speaker 1>US Like what I think the anchor sites and I

0:24:47.080 --> 0:24:49.919
<v Speaker 1>want to be clear, Like you said, this was a

0:24:49.920 --> 0:24:53.320
<v Speaker 1>good idea, but to me, they almost they got a

0:24:53.359 --> 0:24:57.800
<v Speaker 1>little over zealous with how much they went to these

0:24:57.920 --> 0:25:01.560
<v Speaker 1>And like, do I want I want to see pineers

0:25:01.640 --> 0:25:06.000
<v Speaker 1>number two in Pebble Beach once a decade, Yes, absolutely,

0:25:06.600 --> 0:25:10.800
<v Speaker 1>but you know when you're looking at once every five years, yeah,

0:25:11.280 --> 0:25:14.240
<v Speaker 1>I mean five or six years, it's just to me,

0:25:14.400 --> 0:25:18.280
<v Speaker 1>that's that's a bit over the top. I understand why

0:25:18.320 --> 0:25:21.800
<v Speaker 1>both those courses really want to have it, and I

0:25:21.840 --> 0:25:24.040
<v Speaker 1>think this needs to be pointed out. Like if I

0:25:24.160 --> 0:25:29.160
<v Speaker 1>was operating a golf resort that charged six seven, eight

0:25:29.240 --> 0:25:32.000
<v Speaker 1>hundred dollars for greens fees, you know what I would

0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:34.560
<v Speaker 1>want to do. I want week long commercials where the

0:25:34.600 --> 0:25:36.919
<v Speaker 1>best players in the world game and played my course.

0:25:37.440 --> 0:25:41.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm not trying to discredit, you know, these golf courses

0:25:42.000 --> 0:25:45.680
<v Speaker 1>legitimacy for major championships. I think they should have them,

0:25:46.040 --> 0:25:49.400
<v Speaker 1>and they should have them regularly, but I don't think

0:25:49.440 --> 0:25:52.080
<v Speaker 1>these are the courses that should be going that. There

0:25:52.080 --> 0:25:55.600
<v Speaker 1>shouldn't be any US Open courses, given how many good

0:25:56.119 --> 0:26:00.000
<v Speaker 1>venues and how big the country is that get you

0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:03.600
<v Speaker 1>opens every five to six years like that, that's too much.

0:26:04.160 --> 0:26:07.520
<v Speaker 1>And I think that, you know, the ideology between behind

0:26:07.560 --> 0:26:11.760
<v Speaker 1>the anchor sites is like the ability to retain some

0:26:11.840 --> 0:26:15.639
<v Speaker 1>set up, you know, consistency is it's we we know

0:26:15.720 --> 0:26:17.720
<v Speaker 1>we're going back there, so we can do X, Y

0:26:17.760 --> 0:26:20.040
<v Speaker 1>and Z, and we can ask for X, y and

0:26:20.160 --> 0:26:23.560
<v Speaker 1>z from the club, from from the local government. Like

0:26:23.680 --> 0:26:26.959
<v Speaker 1>there are things that make sense with this. But you know,

0:26:27.040 --> 0:26:30.280
<v Speaker 1>when we look back in this, I mean, they announced

0:26:30.320 --> 0:26:33.480
<v Speaker 1>the anchor sites, you know what two years.

0:26:33.200 --> 0:26:36.200
<v Speaker 2>Ago, Yeah, something like that. It was around twenty twenty.

0:26:36.320 --> 0:26:39.679
<v Speaker 1>And I don't think anybody expected at that point that

0:26:39.720 --> 0:26:42.280
<v Speaker 1>they were going to be booked almost completely up through

0:26:42.320 --> 0:26:45.960
<v Speaker 1>twenty fifty, you know that, right, I mean, and then

0:26:46.040 --> 0:26:48.320
<v Speaker 1>you have you have just parts of the country that

0:26:48.359 --> 0:26:48.960
<v Speaker 1>are ignored.

0:26:51.960 --> 0:26:54.240
<v Speaker 2>This episode of the Frida Egg Podcast is brought to

0:26:54.240 --> 0:26:57.840
<v Speaker 2>you by golf Genius. What is golf Genius Well, it

0:26:57.920 --> 0:27:02.200
<v Speaker 2>provides software solutions to over ten five hundred private clubs,

0:27:02.600 --> 0:27:07.160
<v Speaker 2>public courses, resorts, tours, and golf associations in more than

0:27:07.200 --> 0:27:12.000
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0:27:12.040 --> 0:27:15.720
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0:27:15.880 --> 0:27:19.760
<v Speaker 2>great golf experiences. The company's best known product is golf

0:27:19.800 --> 0:27:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Genius Tournament Management. This is the industry's leading tournament management software.

0:27:25.880 --> 0:27:28.640
<v Speaker 2>We at the Fried Egg actually use golf Genius Tournament

0:27:28.680 --> 0:27:31.720
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0:27:31.840 --> 0:27:36.280
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0:27:44.280 --> 0:27:48.720
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0:27:48.800 --> 0:27:53.280
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0:27:53.359 --> 0:27:55.840
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0:27:58.400 --> 0:28:01.639
<v Speaker 2>have to check out golf Genius. All right, back to

0:28:01.680 --> 0:28:08.119
<v Speaker 2>the episode, So, what's your interpretation of why the PGA

0:28:08.200 --> 0:28:11.600
<v Speaker 2>of America and the USGA are going so far into

0:28:11.640 --> 0:28:13.880
<v Speaker 2>the future. Is it just kind of like an arms

0:28:13.960 --> 0:28:16.800
<v Speaker 2>race at this point where I think the USGA is

0:28:16.920 --> 0:28:19.160
<v Speaker 2>afraid that the PGA of America is going to book

0:28:19.520 --> 0:28:22.240
<v Speaker 2>whatever course for you know, twenty fifty three. Well we

0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:24.639
<v Speaker 2>better get them, get them for twenty fifty three before

0:28:24.680 --> 0:28:24.919
<v Speaker 2>they do.

0:28:25.520 --> 0:28:28.600
<v Speaker 1>I think it's partly that, right. I think it's there

0:28:28.640 --> 0:28:30.960
<v Speaker 1>are there are very clear lines in the sand, like

0:28:31.040 --> 0:28:33.240
<v Speaker 1>this is a PGA course or a USGA course. I

0:28:33.280 --> 0:28:35.679
<v Speaker 1>guess one of them that that splits kind of the

0:28:35.760 --> 0:28:40.440
<v Speaker 1>bill is an Olympic club because they have PGA stuff

0:28:40.440 --> 0:28:44.240
<v Speaker 1>and USGA stuff. But I think that's the main thing

0:28:44.360 --> 0:28:48.920
<v Speaker 1>is is there there's competition between those two organizations. And

0:28:48.960 --> 0:28:52.560
<v Speaker 1>obviously the PGA, now because it's in May, cannot be

0:28:52.640 --> 0:28:55.560
<v Speaker 1>hosted at a lot of places because of weather, right

0:28:55.640 --> 0:28:58.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, the upper Midwest and which they had really

0:28:58.960 --> 0:29:02.440
<v Speaker 1>gone to a lot, and the Northeast is a little

0:29:02.480 --> 0:29:05.560
<v Speaker 1>bit off limits. So it creates a little bit of

0:29:05.600 --> 0:29:08.920
<v Speaker 1>a you know, And I think that's one of the

0:29:08.920 --> 0:29:10.880
<v Speaker 1>things you could point to is a good thing for

0:29:11.160 --> 0:29:14.320
<v Speaker 1>the Frisco you know course being you know, it gives

0:29:14.360 --> 0:29:18.240
<v Speaker 1>Texas a major every once in a while, which is important, right,

0:29:19.400 --> 0:29:21.640
<v Speaker 1>But I think that's the thing is like it's an

0:29:21.760 --> 0:29:24.800
<v Speaker 1>arms race, and when you book out like this, I

0:29:24.840 --> 0:29:27.560
<v Speaker 1>think what it also does it gives each of the

0:29:27.880 --> 0:29:32.880
<v Speaker 1>organizations leverage over the club slash course that they are

0:29:32.920 --> 0:29:37.360
<v Speaker 1>trying to negotiate with. So if they are booked like

0:29:37.400 --> 0:29:40.480
<v Speaker 1>they are now, they say, hey, we want you to

0:29:40.520 --> 0:29:44.840
<v Speaker 1>host in twenty twenty eight or twenty thirty one and

0:29:45.000 --> 0:29:47.200
<v Speaker 1>here's the deal. This is what we need from you.

0:29:47.480 --> 0:29:49.760
<v Speaker 1>And if you don't take this, well we there's a

0:29:49.760 --> 0:29:52.720
<v Speaker 1>bunch of other courses that we can go to. Right, Like,

0:29:52.800 --> 0:29:55.640
<v Speaker 1>it creates scarcity if you think about it from a

0:29:55.680 --> 0:29:59.920
<v Speaker 1>business sense, right it creates scarcity with your with your vendors.

0:30:00.200 --> 0:30:03.560
<v Speaker 1>So then the vendors have to compete with each other

0:30:04.120 --> 0:30:07.479
<v Speaker 1>for your business. And a lot of these clubs, like

0:30:07.960 --> 0:30:12.080
<v Speaker 1>some of these clubs business models are dependent on high

0:30:12.160 --> 0:30:16.800
<v Speaker 1>level championship golf, like because that high level championship golf

0:30:17.200 --> 0:30:20.840
<v Speaker 1>brings in money that week, but it also spurs a

0:30:20.880 --> 0:30:24.600
<v Speaker 1>lot of organizations wanting to host big money Monday outings

0:30:24.640 --> 0:30:27.560
<v Speaker 1>at their club that flip a lot of bills over

0:30:27.640 --> 0:30:30.480
<v Speaker 1>the years, you know. So like a lot of these courses,

0:30:30.640 --> 0:30:34.720
<v Speaker 1>like championship golf is fundamental just like a resort for

0:30:34.960 --> 0:30:37.600
<v Speaker 1>like the commercial and the local community. And I want

0:30:37.600 --> 0:30:40.080
<v Speaker 1>to host my Monday outing here, not all of them,

0:30:40.280 --> 0:30:40.880
<v Speaker 1>but some of.

0:30:40.840 --> 0:30:44.200
<v Speaker 2>Them, and the bookings so are so far out in advance.

0:30:44.600 --> 0:30:48.680
<v Speaker 2>Creates a situation where if Club X wants to host

0:30:48.680 --> 0:30:52.120
<v Speaker 2>a US Open and twenty thirty seven is the only

0:30:52.240 --> 0:30:57.520
<v Speaker 2>open year between now and twenty sixty then the USGA

0:30:57.600 --> 0:30:59.360
<v Speaker 2>is in a really or the PGA of America is

0:30:59.360 --> 0:31:02.120
<v Speaker 2>in a really strong position to say, well, you've got

0:31:02.160 --> 0:31:05.800
<v Speaker 2>to do these things in order to get that championship,

0:31:05.880 --> 0:31:07.800
<v Speaker 2>and if you don't want to do it, then there's

0:31:07.800 --> 0:31:11.120
<v Speaker 2>plenty of other courses that want that one year, and

0:31:11.200 --> 0:31:13.840
<v Speaker 2>so it kind of strengthens them. But you know, what

0:31:13.880 --> 0:31:17.160
<v Speaker 2>they've had to give up is significant as well. Essentially

0:31:17.160 --> 0:31:20.240
<v Speaker 2>they've had to give up a lot of open dates

0:31:20.280 --> 0:31:23.440
<v Speaker 2>to Pinehurst and Pebble Beach, which maybe wasn't that good

0:31:23.440 --> 0:31:24.280
<v Speaker 2>of a deal for them.

0:31:24.560 --> 0:31:28.800
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think it's the it's the commercialization. I think,

0:31:28.880 --> 0:31:31.360
<v Speaker 1>like a lot of these I think in the last

0:31:31.360 --> 0:31:35.640
<v Speaker 1>twenty years, there's been a big realization, especially with the TV,

0:31:36.280 --> 0:31:40.120
<v Speaker 1>how how TV deals are going with with sports. Right

0:31:40.600 --> 0:31:44.160
<v Speaker 1>these TV deals are getting so big that they realize

0:31:44.160 --> 0:31:46.600
<v Speaker 1>how much money is at stake with these things. And

0:31:46.680 --> 0:31:51.000
<v Speaker 1>that's another part of it, is that they need more infrastructure,

0:31:51.120 --> 0:31:53.760
<v Speaker 1>they need more grand stands, they need a bigger merch

0:31:53.880 --> 0:31:57.120
<v Speaker 1>tent so that it goes to that leverage point where

0:31:57.480 --> 0:31:59.560
<v Speaker 1>we can say we need this, this and this, and

0:31:59.600 --> 0:32:02.520
<v Speaker 1>it's not just the course, it's I mean Mike one

0:32:02.960 --> 0:32:06.000
<v Speaker 1>and Mike Davis have talked about, you know, working with

0:32:06.040 --> 0:32:09.800
<v Speaker 1>the local government and states in order. You know, I

0:32:09.800 --> 0:32:12.840
<v Speaker 1>think there's something they did with Pennsylvania. I can't remember

0:32:12.920 --> 0:32:17.600
<v Speaker 1>exactly off hand, but they have something with with Pennsylvania

0:32:18.200 --> 0:32:20.960
<v Speaker 1>where you know, there's they they're working directly with the

0:32:21.040 --> 0:32:23.640
<v Speaker 1>state to make things happen, which you know, as when

0:32:23.680 --> 0:32:26.000
<v Speaker 1>you start to think about all the needs of a championship,

0:32:26.320 --> 0:32:29.080
<v Speaker 1>I mean, like just think about parking, road closures, all

0:32:29.160 --> 0:32:32.920
<v Speaker 1>these things, Like these championships are really big things to

0:32:32.960 --> 0:32:35.720
<v Speaker 1>put on and they reach far further than just the

0:32:35.720 --> 0:32:39.000
<v Speaker 1>golf course, right, And that might be why there's never

0:32:39.040 --> 0:32:42.360
<v Speaker 1>going to be another one in Olympia Fields. They you know,

0:32:42.440 --> 0:32:45.200
<v Speaker 1>because of how difficult that was in two thousand and three.

0:32:45.560 --> 0:32:46.480
<v Speaker 2>Why was it difficult?

0:32:47.080 --> 0:32:49.800
<v Speaker 1>I just have you know, you you spend enough time

0:32:49.840 --> 0:32:52.640
<v Speaker 1>in Chicago, you hear the stories of working with the

0:32:52.880 --> 0:32:57.560
<v Speaker 1>with the with Cook County, and yeah.

0:32:55.440 --> 0:32:59.040
<v Speaker 2>And that may be part of what's working against Chambers

0:32:59.080 --> 0:33:02.360
<v Speaker 2>Bay at this moment. The local government has a fraught

0:33:02.400 --> 0:33:05.560
<v Speaker 2>relationship with Chambers Bay. And I'm not sure what the

0:33:05.600 --> 0:33:08.920
<v Speaker 2>parking situation or the lodging situation was like in university

0:33:08.920 --> 0:33:12.280
<v Speaker 2>place out there, And I'm sure there may have been

0:33:12.320 --> 0:33:15.360
<v Speaker 2>some issues. So you know, obviously the Pinehurst area has

0:33:15.400 --> 0:33:20.840
<v Speaker 2>been really easy for the for high level tournaments relatively,

0:33:20.960 --> 0:33:22.800
<v Speaker 2>so that's that's part of the reasoning.

0:33:22.920 --> 0:33:27.160
<v Speaker 1>So okay, one question, you know, here's like I just

0:33:27.320 --> 0:33:29.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to read off some stuff for you here

0:33:29.880 --> 0:33:34.880
<v Speaker 1>with the women's now like, yes, similarly it's very booked out.

0:33:34.880 --> 0:33:37.680
<v Speaker 1>But the women's open, you have twenty twenty three, twenty

0:33:37.720 --> 0:33:41.440
<v Speaker 1>thirty five, twenty forty and twenty forty eight at Pebble Beach.

0:33:42.400 --> 0:33:47.560
<v Speaker 1>You have twenty twenty four at Lancaster in Pennsylvania, you

0:33:47.560 --> 0:33:51.080
<v Speaker 1>have twenty twenty five at Iron Hill's, twenty six at Riviera,

0:33:51.240 --> 0:33:54.960
<v Speaker 1>twenty seven at Inverness, twenty eight at Oakmont and thirty

0:33:54.960 --> 0:33:57.600
<v Speaker 1>eight at Oakmont, twenty nine at Pinehurst.

0:33:58.040 --> 0:34:01.520
<v Speaker 2>Only twenty twenty nine at Pinehurst. Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it.

0:34:02.040 --> 0:34:05.560
<v Speaker 1>Twenty thirty at interlock In, twenty thirty one and twenty

0:34:05.600 --> 0:34:08.520
<v Speaker 1>forty two at Oakland Hills, and twenty thirty four and

0:34:08.520 --> 0:34:12.239
<v Speaker 1>twenty forty six at Marion. So one of the things

0:34:12.239 --> 0:34:16.160
<v Speaker 1>that immediately jumps out one year at Pinehurst. The other

0:34:16.239 --> 0:34:18.239
<v Speaker 1>thing that jumps out is, you know, you have four

0:34:18.280 --> 0:34:24.319
<v Speaker 1>Pebble Beach years, but they're more paced. Appropriately, You've got

0:34:24.320 --> 0:34:27.520
<v Speaker 1>twelve years between the first playing at Pebble Beach in

0:34:27.560 --> 0:34:30.719
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty three and twenty thirty five. You obviously go

0:34:30.840 --> 0:34:33.919
<v Speaker 1>twenty forty there, so five years, but then another eight.

0:34:34.520 --> 0:34:39.080
<v Speaker 1>So here's like I just think this women's schedule to

0:34:39.200 --> 0:34:42.080
<v Speaker 1>me is actually like kind of put together the way

0:34:42.160 --> 0:34:45.120
<v Speaker 1>you would want to see it. There's there's still some openings.

0:34:45.440 --> 0:34:46.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean there aren't many.

0:34:48.040 --> 0:34:50.080
<v Speaker 2>There's not one twenty twenty thirty two.

0:34:50.520 --> 0:34:53.399
<v Speaker 1>But at the same time, like the pacing of it

0:34:53.560 --> 0:34:54.080
<v Speaker 1>is better.

0:34:54.480 --> 0:34:55.760
<v Speaker 2>You have more courses.

0:34:55.960 --> 0:34:59.719
<v Speaker 1>There's more courses. There's Pinehurst only has one in there,

0:35:00.360 --> 0:35:03.480
<v Speaker 1>and all of a sudden, if a great golf course

0:35:03.600 --> 0:35:08.160
<v Speaker 1>comes to be, you have open space. There's no reason,

0:35:08.840 --> 0:35:12.719
<v Speaker 1>really none whatsoever for a tournament to be planned out

0:35:12.760 --> 0:35:14.680
<v Speaker 1>to pass twenty thirty one. Right.

0:35:14.719 --> 0:35:18.520
<v Speaker 2>Well, when I was walking around Chambers Bay, the big

0:35:18.560 --> 0:35:21.040
<v Speaker 2>thing I had on my mind was how great a

0:35:21.160 --> 0:35:24.239
<v Speaker 2>US Women's Open would be there. You know, I'm not

0:35:24.400 --> 0:35:26.719
<v Speaker 2>totally sure about a US Open at Chambers Bay. I

0:35:26.800 --> 0:35:30.280
<v Speaker 2>think there's a lot of reasons that maybe that tournament

0:35:30.360 --> 0:35:34.240
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't work quite as well there because of the crowd sizes,

0:35:34.440 --> 0:35:37.880
<v Speaker 2>and because I think that the lengths that the players

0:35:37.960 --> 0:35:41.520
<v Speaker 2>hit the ball now would really come to dominate that course.

0:35:41.600 --> 0:35:45.040
<v Speaker 2>Now it can be a long course. It was plenty

0:35:45.080 --> 0:35:47.839
<v Speaker 2>hard for players in twenty fifteen. Maybe not for all

0:35:47.880 --> 0:35:48.879
<v Speaker 2>the right reasons, but.

0:35:49.360 --> 0:35:51.040
<v Speaker 1>Well, the golf ball might not go as far.

0:35:51.680 --> 0:35:54.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, if there's a rollback, then maybe it comes

0:35:54.200 --> 0:35:56.200
<v Speaker 2>back into the mix. But just you know, the thing

0:35:56.239 --> 0:35:58.760
<v Speaker 2>that makes Chambers Bay special is the play along the ground,

0:35:59.120 --> 0:36:01.399
<v Speaker 2>and I think that that's a little bit more accentuated

0:36:01.440 --> 0:36:03.319
<v Speaker 2>in the women's game. I think it would be a

0:36:03.400 --> 0:36:06.879
<v Speaker 2>terrific us women's open site and I hope that they

0:36:06.920 --> 0:36:08.960
<v Speaker 2>get booked up at one of these open dates in

0:36:09.000 --> 0:36:12.040
<v Speaker 2>the twenty thirties, but there's not an open spot until

0:36:12.080 --> 0:36:15.160
<v Speaker 2>twenty thirty two. And I don't know. It's fine because

0:36:15.160 --> 0:36:17.120
<v Speaker 2>they're going to a bunch of different courses. I love

0:36:17.160 --> 0:36:20.640
<v Speaker 2>seeing Interlocking on there. I love seeing Inverness on there.

0:36:20.760 --> 0:36:24.279
<v Speaker 2>Right Inverness is in that mix. Aaron Hill's a modern.

0:36:24.000 --> 0:36:28.640
<v Speaker 1>Court riviera women at Riviera that's fantastic, awesome, awesome, Like

0:36:28.760 --> 0:36:31.399
<v Speaker 1>you want to talk about West Coast, and I think

0:36:31.400 --> 0:36:34.000
<v Speaker 1>it's a course everybody's so intimate with because of the

0:36:34.040 --> 0:36:36.719
<v Speaker 1>men's tournament every year, but getting a women's Open there,

0:36:36.840 --> 0:36:40.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean fantastic. I don't agree, and I really like

0:36:40.920 --> 0:36:44.120
<v Speaker 1>what they've done, and I think it's very important to

0:36:44.160 --> 0:36:48.000
<v Speaker 1>point out, like they have elevated the venue, the women's

0:36:48.080 --> 0:36:52.120
<v Speaker 1>venues it to a whole different level than if you

0:36:52.120 --> 0:36:55.359
<v Speaker 1>you know, think back, we covered a US Women's Open

0:36:55.400 --> 0:36:58.400
<v Speaker 1>at Champions Golf Course in Houston, like you know, and

0:36:58.520 --> 0:37:00.920
<v Speaker 1>this is not a shot at Champion. It's just you know,

0:37:01.160 --> 0:37:05.040
<v Speaker 1>Champions Golf, Champions Golf Club. It's just it's not Pebble

0:37:05.120 --> 0:37:07.480
<v Speaker 1>Beach or you know, Riviera.

0:37:07.760 --> 0:37:11.120
<v Speaker 2>You know that that has been a big factor in

0:37:11.160 --> 0:37:14.600
<v Speaker 2>the US Women's Open. And also the Women's Open right

0:37:14.680 --> 0:37:17.080
<v Speaker 2>has gone to some odd courses, and we've seen a

0:37:17.120 --> 0:37:21.120
<v Speaker 2>shift there where more kind of really substantial feeling classic

0:37:21.480 --> 0:37:25.280
<v Speaker 2>championship courses are being introduced to those to those rotas

0:37:25.320 --> 0:37:28.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, US Women's Open has been held fairly recently

0:37:28.400 --> 0:37:33.200
<v Speaker 2>at Trump National Bedminster, Court of Owl right or Court

0:37:33.200 --> 0:37:36.080
<v Speaker 2>of All I'm not sure how it's pronounced. And so

0:37:36.160 --> 0:37:39.239
<v Speaker 2>there have been some questionable US Women's Open venues, and

0:37:40.120 --> 0:37:45.360
<v Speaker 2>the future sites here are definitely promising. So that's that's great.

0:37:45.920 --> 0:37:51.839
<v Speaker 1>Say you were say you were John Bodenhamer tomorrow, what

0:37:51.880 --> 0:37:55.400
<v Speaker 1>would be the first thing you change about about venue selection?

0:37:55.600 --> 0:37:58.799
<v Speaker 1>And like, if you could, if you could make any

0:37:58.880 --> 0:38:03.120
<v Speaker 1>tweaks to both venue you know, both women's and men's,

0:38:03.239 --> 0:38:06.400
<v Speaker 1>what would you do? Or say you're Carrie Haig in

0:38:06.480 --> 0:38:08.040
<v Speaker 1>charge of the PGA, what would you do?

0:38:08.440 --> 0:38:10.839
<v Speaker 2>Well, they can't change anything right now, but am I

0:38:10.840 --> 0:38:13.879
<v Speaker 2>imagining that I could change the free ring any deals

0:38:13.920 --> 0:38:17.839
<v Speaker 2>they've made? Well, first of all, just to drive home

0:38:17.880 --> 0:38:20.480
<v Speaker 2>this point, I'm not sure that I'd book any more

0:38:20.520 --> 0:38:23.400
<v Speaker 2>than ten years in advance. And maybe that wouldn't be

0:38:23.440 --> 0:38:25.880
<v Speaker 2>in the best business interests of the USGA or the

0:38:25.880 --> 0:38:29.920
<v Speaker 2>PGA of America, But I think that it really hamstrings

0:38:29.960 --> 0:38:32.880
<v Speaker 2>you if you're booking twenty years in advance, because we

0:38:33.200 --> 0:38:34.920
<v Speaker 2>don't know how the game is going to evolve in

0:38:34.960 --> 0:38:37.440
<v Speaker 2>twenty years. We don't know how these courses are going

0:38:37.480 --> 0:38:39.799
<v Speaker 2>to change over twenty years, and we don't know what

0:38:39.920 --> 0:38:43.600
<v Speaker 2>other courses are going to come online and become, you know,

0:38:43.719 --> 0:38:47.480
<v Speaker 2>really legitimate championship hosts in twenty years. And so I

0:38:47.520 --> 0:38:50.640
<v Speaker 2>think not booking more than ten years in advance would

0:38:50.640 --> 0:38:55.239
<v Speaker 2>be great. I'd love to see Obviously Chambers Bay back

0:38:55.280 --> 0:38:59.080
<v Speaker 2>in the rod to some more modern courses being experimented with.

0:38:59.600 --> 0:39:03.360
<v Speaker 2>Kiawa was a fantastic host, and that's not really on

0:39:03.440 --> 0:39:06.520
<v Speaker 2>the radar for these major championships right now. So that's

0:39:06.520 --> 0:39:09.200
<v Speaker 2>an example of a course that could be introduced. I'd

0:39:09.239 --> 0:39:11.719
<v Speaker 2>love to see the country Club back. I'm not sure

0:39:11.719 --> 0:39:14.200
<v Speaker 2>there's any plans right now to go back to the

0:39:14.200 --> 0:39:17.800
<v Speaker 2>country Club for the US Open or the US Women's Open.

0:39:18.360 --> 0:39:20.200
<v Speaker 1>And I don't you know, I think I don't think

0:39:20.239 --> 0:39:22.520
<v Speaker 1>that club really wants to host a ton.

0:39:22.840 --> 0:39:25.319
<v Speaker 2>So they're not as eager as some of these other clubs.

0:39:25.200 --> 0:39:29.160
<v Speaker 1>If you could get them in like fifteen years. But

0:39:29.400 --> 0:39:31.600
<v Speaker 1>like then you look at the calendar and you're like, oh,

0:39:31.640 --> 0:39:34.919
<v Speaker 1>well there's like one or two options there, and then

0:39:35.239 --> 0:39:36.919
<v Speaker 1>we're even more booked out.

0:39:37.760 --> 0:39:40.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I think that just again, this is reiterating

0:39:40.920 --> 0:39:43.239
<v Speaker 2>a point, but I don't think I'd go back to

0:39:43.640 --> 0:39:46.560
<v Speaker 2>Pebble Beach more than once a decade. I don't think

0:39:46.600 --> 0:39:49.360
<v Speaker 2>i'd go back to Oakmont more than once a decade,

0:39:49.760 --> 0:39:52.160
<v Speaker 2>and I wouldn't go back to Pinehurst Number two more

0:39:52.200 --> 0:39:55.880
<v Speaker 2>than once a decade. Even Shinnecock Hills at this point

0:39:55.960 --> 0:39:59.040
<v Speaker 2>is getting a little bit of short shrift with these

0:39:59.400 --> 0:40:03.200
<v Speaker 2>championships because it is booked for twenty twenty six. Maybe

0:40:03.239 --> 0:40:05.520
<v Speaker 2>they just didn't want to negotiate about the twenty thirties

0:40:05.600 --> 0:40:08.400
<v Speaker 2>or twenty forties. But there's nothing else on the books

0:40:08.440 --> 0:40:12.359
<v Speaker 2>for Shinnacock Hills, and that's every bit as iconic a

0:40:12.480 --> 0:40:16.120
<v Speaker 2>US Open and as essential a US Open venue as

0:40:16.200 --> 0:40:19.040
<v Speaker 2>Pinehurst Number two, Oakmont or Pebble Beach, and so that

0:40:19.080 --> 0:40:22.360
<v Speaker 2>one should be a big part of the plans going forward,

0:40:22.400 --> 0:40:25.600
<v Speaker 2>but it's not apparently one of these courses that gets

0:40:25.640 --> 0:40:27.520
<v Speaker 2>the twenty fifties treatment at this point.

0:40:27.560 --> 0:40:31.320
<v Speaker 1>I mean, Wingfoot's not even on here, Yeah, exactly. I

0:40:31.400 --> 0:40:34.720
<v Speaker 1>think that's the crazy And obviously, like there are certain

0:40:34.760 --> 0:40:38.000
<v Speaker 1>areas of the country and like, if I was tasked

0:40:38.000 --> 0:40:41.600
<v Speaker 1>with this, the first thing I'd immediately do is I

0:40:41.640 --> 0:40:45.040
<v Speaker 1>would I would pull out a map and I would

0:40:45.080 --> 0:40:47.120
<v Speaker 1>start to and I'm sure this has been done, but

0:40:47.160 --> 0:40:50.960
<v Speaker 1>I would start to like put down pins on exactly

0:40:51.000 --> 0:40:57.160
<v Speaker 1>where I think viable US Open hosts are and I

0:40:57.200 --> 0:40:59.959
<v Speaker 1>would kind of work from there in building this out

0:41:00.560 --> 0:41:04.040
<v Speaker 1>and making sure that I touch all these areas of

0:41:04.080 --> 0:41:08.200
<v Speaker 1>the country. And I mean, like, I hate the term

0:41:08.280 --> 0:41:12.520
<v Speaker 1>growth the game. But like legitimately bringing the National Championship

0:41:12.680 --> 0:41:15.480
<v Speaker 1>to all parts of the country, it should be a

0:41:15.600 --> 0:41:18.520
<v Speaker 1>pretty important And I know, like you can't go to

0:41:18.600 --> 0:41:22.680
<v Speaker 1>Arizona in June, like so the Southwest and is going

0:41:22.719 --> 0:41:25.719
<v Speaker 1>to be mixed out, and I get that, but like

0:41:26.680 --> 0:41:30.120
<v Speaker 1>getting to and making an effort to get to areas

0:41:30.160 --> 0:41:33.160
<v Speaker 1>of the country. And I am always a proponent of

0:41:33.320 --> 0:41:37.680
<v Speaker 1>best like venues matter, golf courses matter, but in this case,

0:41:37.760 --> 0:41:41.719
<v Speaker 1>like you do need to get to different areas. And

0:41:42.120 --> 0:41:46.000
<v Speaker 1>when you look at this the list, it's it's so geographically,

0:41:46.520 --> 0:41:49.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, constrained to just certain parts of the country.

0:41:50.000 --> 0:41:53.040
<v Speaker 1>And I think that's like the number one thing that

0:41:53.120 --> 0:41:56.680
<v Speaker 1>I think is falling short on because when you bring championship,

0:41:57.120 --> 0:42:00.520
<v Speaker 1>when you bring the National Championship and you rotate it around,

0:42:01.520 --> 0:42:04.800
<v Speaker 1>that's the whole the history of this thing. You should

0:42:04.800 --> 0:42:07.440
<v Speaker 1>try and be making a conscious effort to bring it

0:42:07.560 --> 0:42:10.320
<v Speaker 1>to all the big areas of the country.

0:42:10.920 --> 0:42:15.520
<v Speaker 2>And I think also that championship venue selection can play

0:42:15.640 --> 0:42:20.120
<v Speaker 2>a role in encouraging the advancement of golf course architecture.

0:42:20.880 --> 0:42:24.000
<v Speaker 2>Chambers Bay is a modern golf course. It is a

0:42:24.080 --> 0:42:29.440
<v Speaker 2>different looking and playing type of modern championship venue, and

0:42:29.480 --> 0:42:32.000
<v Speaker 2>I think that that kind of innovation should be encouraged.

0:42:32.080 --> 0:42:37.000
<v Speaker 2>That's part of what drove golf architecture for good or

0:42:37.040 --> 0:42:40.520
<v Speaker 2>for ill for many many decades in the twenties. Look

0:42:40.560 --> 0:42:43.560
<v Speaker 2>at the courses that we're hosting US opens now. Obviously,

0:42:43.560 --> 0:42:46.200
<v Speaker 2>the US Open is on a completely different scale now

0:42:46.320 --> 0:42:48.960
<v Speaker 2>and there are so many other considerations than what the

0:42:49.040 --> 0:42:51.960
<v Speaker 2>USGA in the nineteen twenties had to deal with. But

0:42:52.239 --> 0:42:56.200
<v Speaker 2>the nineteen twenties, that's when you saw Wingfoot introduced, That's

0:42:56.200 --> 0:42:59.440
<v Speaker 2>when you saw Oakland Hills introduced. These were new golf

0:42:59.440 --> 0:43:03.720
<v Speaker 2>courses at the time, and there were energetic architects trying

0:43:03.719 --> 0:43:06.920
<v Speaker 2>to build courses to challenge the best players in the world.

0:43:07.400 --> 0:43:09.520
<v Speaker 2>I think when we book this far in advance with

0:43:09.600 --> 0:43:13.200
<v Speaker 2>golf courses that were built many decades ago, that it

0:43:13.280 --> 0:43:16.240
<v Speaker 2>kind of takes some of the impetus out of golf

0:43:16.320 --> 0:43:21.360
<v Speaker 2>architecture and golf course development, at least this specific genre

0:43:21.480 --> 0:43:23.920
<v Speaker 2>of it, you know. I like when golf architects are

0:43:23.920 --> 0:43:26.880
<v Speaker 2>trying to build something that challenges the best players but

0:43:27.000 --> 0:43:31.080
<v Speaker 2>also suits average amateur players. I think Chambers Bay does

0:43:31.120 --> 0:43:34.120
<v Speaker 2>that really well, and I'd love to see more architects

0:43:34.160 --> 0:43:37.719
<v Speaker 2>try to do this, and you know, having all these

0:43:37.800 --> 0:43:39.920
<v Speaker 2>years be booked up for the US Open and PGA

0:43:40.040 --> 0:43:42.719
<v Speaker 2>Championship might take a little bit of the momentum out

0:43:42.719 --> 0:43:42.960
<v Speaker 2>of that.

0:43:43.680 --> 0:43:47.520
<v Speaker 1>In both those cases, the developers of Chambers Bay and

0:43:47.560 --> 0:43:51.560
<v Speaker 1>Aaron Hills sought out championship golf because it was available

0:43:51.640 --> 0:43:54.840
<v Speaker 1>to them, and I think now the incentive is not there,

0:43:54.920 --> 0:43:57.719
<v Speaker 1>so there's no you know, there's no reason to try

0:43:57.760 --> 0:44:01.040
<v Speaker 1>and build a championship golf, which leads to as you know,

0:44:01.200 --> 0:44:04.560
<v Speaker 1>you brought this up like a one dimensional kind of

0:44:04.680 --> 0:44:09.640
<v Speaker 1>architecture scene where I think, I I think anybody that's

0:44:09.640 --> 0:44:12.879
<v Speaker 1>listened to this podcast knows that we are all for playability.

0:44:13.320 --> 0:44:17.400
<v Speaker 1>But I think that when you swing the pendulum to

0:44:17.680 --> 0:44:21.760
<v Speaker 1>it's all and only about playability and not about testing,

0:44:22.560 --> 0:44:24.759
<v Speaker 1>I think you've lost the plot a little bit. And

0:44:25.120 --> 0:44:28.880
<v Speaker 1>it's important for golf and shots to have consequence when

0:44:28.920 --> 0:44:31.600
<v Speaker 1>you hit poor shots. And if we swing all the

0:44:31.600 --> 0:44:35.160
<v Speaker 1>way to where it's just about designing for you know,

0:44:35.320 --> 0:44:39.600
<v Speaker 1>too long golf architecture was about designing for pros, but

0:44:39.719 --> 0:44:43.000
<v Speaker 1>it's important to keep them in mind, you know, because

0:44:43.040 --> 0:44:48.080
<v Speaker 1>you want to the best courses stimulate all levels of player.

0:44:48.880 --> 0:44:52.560
<v Speaker 1>And I feel like when you when championship golf isn't

0:44:52.560 --> 0:44:56.040
<v Speaker 1>even considered, what happens is that, you know, there are

0:44:56.200 --> 0:44:59.359
<v Speaker 1>very good players that can play championship golf that go

0:44:59.760 --> 0:45:03.719
<v Speaker 1>and you know, and I think that's just, uh, it's

0:45:03.760 --> 0:45:06.319
<v Speaker 1>something to keep in mind. And championship golf is the

0:45:06.880 --> 0:45:09.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, in being able to host the US Open

0:45:10.080 --> 0:45:13.560
<v Speaker 1>is kind of the allure of a developer potentially going

0:45:13.600 --> 0:45:16.480
<v Speaker 1>down the road of building one of these golf courses exactly.

0:45:16.960 --> 0:45:22.400
<v Speaker 2>Not only individual developers who are just pursuing a business opportunity,

0:45:22.440 --> 0:45:26.719
<v Speaker 2>but Chambers Bay, that project would not have gotten off

0:45:26.719 --> 0:45:31.000
<v Speaker 2>the ground if the possibility of a US Open weren't there.

0:45:31.520 --> 0:45:34.680
<v Speaker 2>Investment is the key word here, Bethpage Black wouldn't have

0:45:34.719 --> 0:45:39.160
<v Speaker 2>gotten that level of investment if the US Open or

0:45:39.200 --> 0:45:44.320
<v Speaker 2>the PGA Championship had not been a possibility for that course.

0:45:44.400 --> 0:45:46.240
<v Speaker 2>And the same with Chambers Bay. I don't think Chambers

0:45:46.280 --> 0:45:50.799
<v Speaker 2>Bay would have been built today because people who are

0:45:50.840 --> 0:45:53.479
<v Speaker 2>making decisions about whether to move that project forward would

0:45:53.480 --> 0:45:55.560
<v Speaker 2>have said, well, if we're gonna get a US Open,

0:45:55.600 --> 0:45:57.760
<v Speaker 2>it's not gonna happen until twenty forty seven or whatever,

0:45:57.840 --> 0:46:00.719
<v Speaker 2>so why should we put this much into this golf

0:46:00.719 --> 0:46:03.640
<v Speaker 2>course and Chambers Bay. You know, I didn't even mention

0:46:03.880 --> 0:46:07.600
<v Speaker 2>how wonderfully woven in it woven in it is in

0:46:07.640 --> 0:46:11.920
<v Speaker 2>its community like that it has beautified that part of

0:46:12.280 --> 0:46:15.960
<v Speaker 2>that town. There are places for kids to play around it,

0:46:16.160 --> 0:46:18.600
<v Speaker 2>they are walking paths through it. It's a whole thing.

0:46:18.760 --> 0:46:22.880
<v Speaker 2>It's a big scene there and it's really improved that place.

0:46:23.280 --> 0:46:26.160
<v Speaker 2>And that investment I don't think would have happened if

0:46:26.239 --> 0:46:30.040
<v Speaker 2>the future landscape of championship golf look like it does now.

0:46:30.440 --> 0:46:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Tory Pines has that too, and I think, like my

0:46:33.640 --> 0:46:38.240
<v Speaker 1>resounding point I think overarching is that you can't become

0:46:38.280 --> 0:46:42.440
<v Speaker 1>a historic US Open venue without the opportunity to host

0:46:42.800 --> 0:46:46.280
<v Speaker 1>US opens. And it feels like that has been removed

0:46:46.520 --> 0:46:50.200
<v Speaker 1>from everybody, you know, in a way, there's no real

0:46:50.239 --> 0:46:53.880
<v Speaker 1>path to it because there are you know, contracts in

0:46:53.920 --> 0:46:58.839
<v Speaker 1>place with with you know, resorts and clubs alike that

0:46:58.960 --> 0:47:02.160
<v Speaker 1>have gobbled up really the all the opportunity to host.

0:47:02.800 --> 0:47:08.440
<v Speaker 2>And that is a something that the organizations like the

0:47:08.520 --> 0:47:10.800
<v Speaker 2>USGA and the PGA of America can keep in mind,

0:47:11.640 --> 0:47:16.920
<v Speaker 2>is how are we incentivizing communities to invest in golf

0:47:17.600 --> 0:47:21.319
<v Speaker 2>and championship venue selection is a big way to do that.

0:47:21.920 --> 0:47:24.360
<v Speaker 2>And right now, I think that the approach to championship

0:47:24.400 --> 0:47:29.680
<v Speaker 2>venue selection has moved away from incentivizing communities to invest

0:47:29.719 --> 0:47:33.680
<v Speaker 2>in golf and has moved towards what are some efficiencies

0:47:33.760 --> 0:47:37.960
<v Speaker 2>for the USGA itself and how can we kind of

0:47:38.320 --> 0:47:42.600
<v Speaker 2>lock in contracts competitively in order to best serve the organization.

0:47:43.280 --> 0:47:46.719
<v Speaker 2>And you know, maybe ultimately that's a good decision, and

0:47:46.760 --> 0:47:50.520
<v Speaker 2>it will enable the USGA to do more things outside

0:47:50.560 --> 0:47:55.239
<v Speaker 2>of championships in order to encourage the the advancement of

0:47:55.320 --> 0:47:57.640
<v Speaker 2>the game and the and the cultivation of the game.

0:47:58.360 --> 0:48:02.279
<v Speaker 2>But man, it just seems like if a Chambers Bay

0:48:02.320 --> 0:48:04.719
<v Speaker 2>project were on the table today, if it if there

0:48:04.719 --> 0:48:07.080
<v Speaker 2>were a possibility that something like this could be built

0:48:07.120 --> 0:48:10.160
<v Speaker 2>in another city, it might not move forward. And I

0:48:10.200 --> 0:48:11.640
<v Speaker 2>think that's that's sort of a bummer.

0:48:12.440 --> 0:48:15.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think you've hit on like one of the

0:48:15.239 --> 0:48:19.120
<v Speaker 1>most difficult conundrums I would imagine that the USGA finds

0:48:19.120 --> 0:48:23.480
<v Speaker 1>itself in is the delineation between being the governing body

0:48:23.480 --> 0:48:26.760
<v Speaker 1>that's supposed to support all these things and advance the game,

0:48:26.840 --> 0:48:32.360
<v Speaker 1>but also running in a very efficient and profitable business

0:48:32.480 --> 0:48:34.600
<v Speaker 1>even though they're non profit. But like you know, the

0:48:34.719 --> 0:48:38.839
<v Speaker 1>US Open and the US Women's Open. Those are the

0:48:38.880 --> 0:48:42.960
<v Speaker 1>big ticket things that really fund so much of the

0:48:43.040 --> 0:48:46.840
<v Speaker 1>other stuff they do, So that's it's a really tricky situation.

0:48:47.040 --> 0:48:50.040
<v Speaker 1>I do not want that to go unnoticed. Is like

0:48:50.760 --> 0:48:53.200
<v Speaker 1>they're trying to make as much money as they possibly

0:48:53.239 --> 0:48:56.360
<v Speaker 1>can from those so that they can do as much

0:48:56.800 --> 0:49:00.200
<v Speaker 1>with the you know, for other programs as they possibly can.

0:49:00.080 --> 0:49:02.319
<v Speaker 1>And I think that has a lot to do with it,

0:49:02.400 --> 0:49:04.960
<v Speaker 1>Like that is a you know there, that's part of

0:49:05.000 --> 0:49:08.360
<v Speaker 1>why it's so booked out. But you know, you this

0:49:08.520 --> 0:49:10.400
<v Speaker 1>is the thing that you lose when you do that.

0:49:11.440 --> 0:49:13.879
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Yeah, I think that's I think that's the big

0:49:13.920 --> 0:49:17.319
<v Speaker 2>idea that we were working towards there. Andy, thanks for

0:49:17.440 --> 0:49:20.520
<v Speaker 2>chatting with me about this today. And I hope that

0:49:20.560 --> 0:49:23.799
<v Speaker 2>we'll see Chambers Bay on some rota or another soon.

0:49:23.840 --> 0:49:26.840
<v Speaker 2>We didn't really go through PGA championship venues, but I

0:49:26.880 --> 0:49:28.920
<v Speaker 2>don't know if that's a possibility or not. The USGA

0:49:29.000 --> 0:49:31.520
<v Speaker 2>has kind of claimed Chambers Bay, but I'd love to

0:49:31.520 --> 0:49:33.480
<v Speaker 2>see more golf there because it was really fun to

0:49:33.480 --> 0:49:36.680
<v Speaker 2>be there. But in any case, let's wrap it up here.

0:49:36.920 --> 0:49:50.439
<v Speaker 2>Thanks a lot, any thanks. This episode of The Frida

0:49:50.440 --> 0:49:54.040
<v Speaker 2>Egg podcast was edited by meg Atkins. If you're not

0:49:54.080 --> 0:49:56.840
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0:50:16.200 --> 0:50:18.840
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0:50:24.080 --> 0:50:25.799
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