WEBVTT - Something Stinks in Missouri 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:04.680 MHM. Justice never has an expiration date. If we can't 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:08.840 correct wrongful convictions, then people are saying, how can we 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:13.320 trust the whole criminal justice system. Rodney Lincoln's case is 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:20.720 not an anomaly. Decades of unchecked misconduct leads to decades 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:33.640 of injustice. Right, I'm Leah Rothman, this is the Real 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:47.519 Killer Episode eleven. Something stinks in Missouri. You know they 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:52.440 said justice is supposed to be equal to all. I've 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.800 never taught to anyone that believes that justice is equal 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:59.040 to all, and some of the people that I talked 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:03.080 to you would judge I have the judges don't believe 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:08.800 in it. Who does. Rodney Lincoln spent thirty six years 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:12.040 and ten days in prison for crimes the vast majority 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:15.800 of people believe he did not commit. I want to 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:19.840 know why, Why in Missouri is it so hard to 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:23.880 free the wrongfully convicted? And to be fair, it's not 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:28.000 just a problem in Missouri. According to the National Registry 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:33.760 of Exonerations, in there were one and twenty nine exonerations nationwide, 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:37.200 with a total of one thousand, seven hundred and thirty 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:41.760 seven years lost behind bars. Again, we're only talking about 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:47.000 those who are actually exonerated seven of those exonerations involved 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:52.320 official misconduct, and thirty exonerations were convictions based at least 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:57.600 in part on mistaken witness identifications. You know, the Missouri 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:02.400 state motto is Salus popular least suprema lex esto, which 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:06.760 translates to let the good or safety of the people 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:11.160 be the supreme law. Rodney's former attorney, Shawn O'Brien, who 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.320 has been in the thick of the fight to free 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:17.720 the innocent for decades, may disagree Missouri's measuring up to 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:22.800 its own motto for all of its people. First of all, 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:26.840 what percentage of people in prison do you believe are innocent? 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:30.520 The best estimate was a fellowed by the name of 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.880 Sam Gross, who is a criminal procedure professor at Michigan 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:38.760 Law School. Um. Really good guy, really smart, scary smart 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:42.880 kind of person, and his estimate. You can take it 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:47.519 as high as ten or twelve percent, but more likely 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:54.120 it's probably closer to um two to three percent UM. 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:56.840 And so when you think about the fact that we have, 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.920 you know, two point one million prisoners in custody at 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:04.720 this moment, that's pretty high. That's just people who have 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:07.440 already been convicted. I think that number would be much 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:13.640 higher among pre trial detainees. In death penalty cases. I 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:20.240 can tell you that, for um, every nine people we execute, 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:25.359 we release one innocent person from death row. And the 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:30.400 question it is staggering. Yeah. There's an organization called the 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:36.160 Death Penalty Information Center. They did a study of death 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:40.600 penalty Where are you most likely to get executed in 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:44.800 the US if you're convicted of murder? And of course 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:49.000 a lot of counties in Texas are very high on 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:53.880 the list. St. Louis City is number nine. St. Louis 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:59.520 County is number ten, and if you eliminate Texas, St. 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:02.000 Louis City in St. Louis County are number two and 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:06.800 three in the US at actually killing people. St. Louis 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:16.600 is a perfect storm. You have zealous prosecutors, assembly line courts, 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:22.719 and weak public defenders in that office. Their caseloads are awful, 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:27.479 and they've been cutting corners for so long that nobody's 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:31.680 actually practicing law in the defense of cases. I mean, 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:35.159 a successful result in a case is more of a 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:38.599 fluke or an accident than the product of how the 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:44.640 system should work. And in that environment, it's a perfect 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:49.760 place for detectives like Joe bragoon to function because nobody 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.320 is going to really look at the integrity of his 0:04:53.640 --> 0:05:01.840 work product and question it. It just doesn't happen. If 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:05.440 an innocent persons on death row, it's obviously a serious 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:08.080 fight against the clock to free them, but at the 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:11.520 very least they have a statutory right to an attorney 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:15.400 up until the moment they're executed. For those not on 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:22.560 death row, they're kind of on their own. For you know, 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:26.000 the common person sentenced to length the time in jail 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:30.080 for something he didn't do. We don't have lawyers digging 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:34.080 except you know, for the handful of exoneration projects around 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:38.159 the US. That's really the issue is the resources to 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:43.160 prove their innocence are scarce. So it's not unusual for 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:46.720 an innocence project to have a backlog of six or 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:50.760 seven cases people just asking please look at my case. 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:54.960 And if someone is actually lucky enough to get an 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:58.320 innocence project or pro bono attorney to take on their case, 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:03.320 well it's just the first step in a very arduous process. 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:09.680 Why do these cases take so long, Well, because the 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:13.120 standard is so high and there are so many barriers 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:17.280 to release. You know, the system operates under a very 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:21.279 heavy presumption that everybody in prison is guilty, and it 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:27.000 is very difficult to overturn that presumption of finality. And 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:31.080 I don't want to get into a complicated lecture about 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:35.320 post conviction procedure. But every case goes through about nine 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:41.240 possibly available uh stages of review, and it works like 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:43.960 shoots and ladders. You can get to a certain stage 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:45.560 and they say, I want to go back to this 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:49.200 stage and try again. I mean mostly that bouncing around 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:53.360 is over procedural technicalities. Are you a Douglas Adams fan 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:56.960 Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? I have not read it. 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:01.200 I'm sorry. Well, and one of my favorite chapters is 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:05.880 titled somebody Else's Problem. So they're flying along in their 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:10.000 rocket ship in outer space and they go through what 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:14.120 the author calls is somebody Else's problem field where the 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:18.800 captain is about to crash the ship into a planet 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:22.160 and he says, it's not my problem. I'm not the navigator, 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:25.120 and the navigator says, not my problem. IY not the engineer, 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:27.520 And the engineer says it's not my problem. I'm not. 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:31.640 It's always somebody else's responsibility to fix. And I see 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.240 the criminal justice system after having read that book, I 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:38.720 thought that's a perfect analogy for post conviction litigation. You know, 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:41.640 the judge and post conviction says, well, the jury pronounced 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:44.160 him guilty, and if they're wrong, the appellate court is 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:48.320 gonna overturn it. Uh. And if the appellate court's wrong, 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:51.280 then the post conviction court can take another look at it. 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:53.640 And the post conviction court says, why should I look 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:55.400 at it. It's already been looked at by all these 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:58.760 other people like you. Get to the point of ridiculousness. 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:05.160 Um at nobody has responsibility because it's spread out over 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:08.440 so many places. There are so many things about Rodney's 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:15.000 case that should make everybody who ever touched it very uncomfortable, 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:19.040 if not ashamed, had the role that they played in 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:26.720 obtaining and reviewing this conviction. When we talk about how 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:31.360 much time the crime in this case happened before I 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:36.360 was born, so the entire time I represented Rodney, he 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:39.040 had been incarcerated for longer than I had been alive. 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:44.679 That's Tricia Rojo bush Nell again. She's Rodney's attorney and 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:49.440 the executive director at the Midwest Innocence Project. Everything I 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:52.320 ever did in my life until I was thirty six. 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:58.880 Rodney was incarcerated during it my whole life. It should 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:03.280 not take that long. M hm. And my whole life 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:08.360 means his kid's whole life, his grandkids. How much do 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:11.600 you miss in that time? And it's impossible to explain. 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.000 So it takes forever to even prove in the courts 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:17.960 that these people are innocent. Then innocence is not enough. 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:23.200 I don't understand that. Yeah, I mean, it's it's it. 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:26.880 That is the way the system is designed, right, And 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:30.800 although everyone in Rodney's case is white, the system is 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:36.560 disproportionately designed and stacked against people of color. You know. 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:38.880 I think a lot about this in the state of Missouri. 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.000 One is, we are a Southern state that doesn't want 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:42.880 to admit that we were a Southern state, right, So 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:44.800 we were a slave state that did not fight for 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:48.560 the Confederacy. So we have and we are identified as 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:52.160 the Midwest. Right, folks think about the injustice and the 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:56.320 racism and the problems in places like the South, when 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.160 we have all those same problems and racist problems and 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:01.800 practices are still existing today and the consequences that are 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:05.240 tuisting today. I mean, in our office, we say that 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:07.960 systemic racism is the leading cause of wrongful convictions. It 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.440 infects every part of it. Right. The reason we don't 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:14.280 fund public defenders is also because the vast majority of 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:17.560 people who need public defenders are black and brown folks 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:23.080 who come from disadvantaged socio economns status, and so it 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:25.880 infects every part of it. And it's it's it's like, 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.640 we need just change who's in power that give people 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.199 who are affected real power. I mean, what would the 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:34.040 criminal legal system look like if the people impacted by 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:37.679 the criminal skillstem designed it right? And also, we need 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:40.160 people to care about other human beings. That's what I 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:41.880 think is so insane when we walk in in the 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:43.920 court and they say, oh, it's not enough unless you're 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:45.960 sentenced to death, Like how do you go home? How 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:48.840 do you write those words down? And I'd be like, 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:54.080 you know, I feel good about today. And when a 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:57.440 decision like that, innocence isn't enough unless your sentence to 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:01.000 death is handed down, it has some laugh sting, life 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:14.800 altering effects for so many. When we lost Rodney's case, 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:17.800 not only did we lose it for Rodney, we lost 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:21.640 it for every other innocent person coming next. Right now, 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:25.640 that's still the standard innocence is not enough unless you 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:30.480 are sentenced to death. And one of those people directly 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:34.120 affected by that loss is forty eight year old Lamar Johnson, 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:38.960 also from St. Louis. So you know, in Missouri's most 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.440 folks know Lamar Johnson because there is another devastating loss 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:45.280 also just like Rodney Lincoln. Right, It's another one of 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:50.719 those cases that seems to defy logic. In during a 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:54.360 botched robbery, twenty five year old Marcus Boyd is shot 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:58.320 and killed, and I witness Greg Elking, who was sitting 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:01.400 next to Marcus Boyd at the time, tells St. Louis 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:05.000 Metro p D he can't identify the two shooters because 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.800 it was nighttime and the men were wearing masks. Although 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.760 Lamar Johnson has an alibi for the time of the murder, 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.679 Gregg Elking eventually I DA s him as one of 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:19.760 the two perpetrators. Lamar Johnson is convicted and sentenced to 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:24.920 life without parole. Then, in nineteen ninety six and two 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:28.559 thousand and two, the two masked men confessed to the 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:32.760 murder and say Lamar Johnson was never there. In two 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:36.960 thousand three, Greg Elking, the witness, recounts to his pastor, 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.800 and in two thousand eight, about fourteen years after Lamar 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:45.360 Johnson was convicted, the Midwest Innocence Project takes his case. 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:49.440 By the way. For years before m IP came on board, 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:53.840 Lamar Johnson was acting as his own advocate, gathering evidence 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:57.360 which could help prove his innocence. He tried and lost 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:01.640 several appeals, even with the sworn affidavits of the two 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:08.600 confessed killers. Then in St. Louis Circuit, attorney Kim Gardner 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:12.720 and her conviction integrity units start reviewing Lamar Johnson's case 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:18.040 and in time what they find is shocking. They uncover 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:21.240 more than four thousand dollars worth the payments paid out 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:24.720 to the witness, Greg Elking, which was in exchange for 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:29.200 him identifying Lamar Johnson as one of the killers. Here's 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:34.120 Tricia again. We had asked for records of those payments 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:39.319 ten different times and we were told no such payments exist. Right, 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.280 Kim Garner gets elected, We go and present this case 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:43.920 to her. She they go and they look in the 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:46.960 file and there is a blue folder says did not 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.280 disclose and inside his record of all the payments and 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:53.439 all of our requests asking for proof of the payments. 0:13:55.679 --> 0:14:00.000 They also find proof that police invented witness statements, fabricae, 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:04.280 did a false confession from Lamar Johnson, and prosecutors hit 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:10.000 all of this and more from defense attorneys. So you know, 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:13.400 at that time, Kim Gardner says, it isn't we need 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:16.800 let him out, and so she filed the emotion for 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:19.760 new trial. And the Statute of Missouri says a defendant 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:24.160 has fifteen days after this convictions finlet to file emotion 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:26.600 for new trial. And it doesn't make clear what the 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:28.800 timeline is for prosecutors. So we were going to say, 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:31.800 prosecutor can do it anytime. She has an ethical duty 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:34.920 right as a minister of justice. So she filed it. 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:38.200 It filed it in the St. Louis Um Circuit Court. 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:42.120 The judge appointed the a g to appear for reasons 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.840 I cannot explain. The ag said, you have no power 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:46.760 to do that. We were denied. It went up to 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:49.360 the Court of Appeals. The Court of Appeals said, we 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.920 don't really know and we think the miss Ray Supreme 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:55.080 Court should should hear this. They transferred it to the 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:57.920 Misra Supreme Court for them to decide that no, a 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:04.960 prosecutor cannot do that. So to sum it up, the 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:10.160 witness re cants, the killers confess there's proof of police 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:14.160 and prosecutorial misconduct. And when Kim Gardner takes all of 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:17.240 this to the courts requesting a new trial, the judge 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:20.760 appoints Missouri Attorney General Eric Schmidt to take over the case, 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:24.560 who then fights her authority, saying she should have none, 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:32.000 and he wins. Imagine you take this job and you're 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:36.680 told that you don't have the right to correct wrathful convictions. Again, 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:42.120 Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner. I think that Lamar Johnson represents 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:47.960 a issue that I believe when a prosecutor, as in 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:52.000 other jurisdictions, they have told me, when they are made 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:56.400 aware that something was not right, everyone including the courts, 0:15:56.520 --> 0:16:01.200 trying to find a way to correct what prosecutor discovers 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:05.280 maybe a rawful uh conviction. And I believe that in 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:08.880 this case it was very strange that a judge automatically 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:12.640 called in the attorney general, who I represent the state, 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:18.480 and when the Attorney general um re appealed. It was 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:22.200 not about Lamar Johnson. It was not about whether he 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:27.760 was innocent or guilty. It was more about me, as 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:32.000 the elected prosecutor not having the ability to correct wrongful convictions. 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:36.240 And the Missouri Supreme Court ruled in the Attorney General's favor, 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:39.680 but it was more disturbing that we are ministers of 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:44.600 justice and regardless of whether we secure of conviction or not, 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:49.760 justice does not stop after that conviction. Do you feel 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:53.760 like the Attorney General, Eric Schmidt, was that personal? Do 0:16:53.800 --> 0:17:00.520 you think because you're reform based, because you're a woman. Well, 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:03.960 I think it was, you know, personal to to the 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:07.080 circuit attorney because I am the first African American female 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:10.199 reformat a prosecutor to ever lead this office. So I 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:14.000 believe that because our philosophies and somehow are different, but 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:16.960 our philosophy should be sent the same in terms of justice. 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:21.240 Justice is not a Republican idea or a democratic idea, 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:26.040 or a progressive idea or a conservative idea. Justice is 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:30.439 what it is justice and we seek justice. And I 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:35.119 believe that the Attorney General made it more about attacking me, 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:39.120 the elected prosecutor, and he's never denied that Lamar Johnson 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:43.320 is is is innocent. It was just about me and 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:45.240 do I have the right to correct month for convictions? 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:49.920 So yeah, I think it's personal here, Sawn O'Brien again, 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:53.679 to say that Kim Gardner is meeting a lot of 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:57.320 opposition from the Attorney General's office would be the understatement 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:03.600 of the century. It is shameful how much the Attorney 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:08.119 General has politicized the criminal justice process, and frankly, I 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:11.080 think it's because of race. Not only is she a 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:16.120 reform minded prosecutor, but she is a black reform minded prosecutor, 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:19.600 the first black prosecutor that St. Louis City has ever 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:27.200 seen in its history. And the pushback is incredible. Presumably 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:31.120 Attorney General Eric Schmidt would deny this. I've reached out 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.159 multiple times to ask him about it, but I haven't 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:39.399 heard back. What Kim Gardner was trying to do should 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:42.840 have worked. Maybe it would have worked in other states, 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:48.120 not Missouri. That's former m IP investigator Dan growth House. 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:53.000 You met him in earlier episodes. He's worked tirelessly on 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:58.600 both Rodney Lincoln and Lamar Johnson's cases. I mean Lamar. 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:04.159 I've known Lamar Sin's two thousand and eight. I know 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:09.320 everything about his case, the amount of evidence that I 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:13.720 collected from the people that committed the crime. Very seldom 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:18.520 do I get affidavit signed by the real shooters, And 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:22.400 very seldom do I get affidavits signed by the witness 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:24.680 that lied to the police who tells me why they 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.440 lied to the police. Seldom do I get affidavits from 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:31.399 witnesses that looked at the police reports and said, I 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:35.159 never told the cops that I'll sign an affidavit that 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.280 said that that that police report is fraudulent, that I 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:44.200 never said that. It's just, you know, nine yards of craziness. 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:47.639 Lamar keeps me up at night. Son of a bitch. 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:51.560 I could. I could talk like a sailor for five 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:55.159 minutes talking about how mother fucking pisted I am. That 0:19:55.280 --> 0:20:08.240 Lamar is still sitting in prison makes me puke. According 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:13.080 to Injustice Watch, a not for profit, nonpartisan organization that 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:18.240 does in depth research on institutions, justice and equality, it's 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:21.439 not just the current Attorney General, Eric Schmidt, who has 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:26.120 been opposing relief for the wrongfully convicted. The Missouri AG's 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:30.480 office has been opposing nearly every wrongful conviction case since 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:35.520 the year two thousand. A perfect example of this is 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:39.240 Shawn O'Brien's Joe am Ran case, which we talked about 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:43.080 in a previous episode. When The Assistant Attorney General was 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:46.960 asked by one of the justices, quote, are you suggesting 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:51.000 even if we find that Mr Amran is actually innocent, 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:56.200 he should be executed? He answered, that is correct, your honor. 0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:04.320 Absolutely unbelievable, right mean stomach turning. Although Joe am Rin 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:08.560 was not executed and was eventually released from prison, that 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:12.040 Assistant a G sentiment for me kind of sums up 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:15.320 one of the biggest problems with the post conviction justice 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:19.520 system in Missouri. While it's completely legal for the a 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:22.720 G to oppose relief, why would they do it based 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:25.560 on their duty to do so instead of basing it 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:29.560 on a person's guilt or innocence? And it is in 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:34.879 fact happening all over Missouri, like in Jackson County. Kevin 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:38.760 Strickland is another man most believe is innocent. He's been 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:41.520 serving time for a triple homicide that happened back in 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:47.840 nine similar to the Lamar Johnson case. Jackson County Prosecutor 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:51.439 Jean Peters Baker has been stripped of any power to 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:56.480 release Kevin Strickland. Here she is in a May press conference. 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:01.240 I'm here advocating from Mr strict It's freedom and that 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:05.960 his conviction should be vacated. Most importantly, though I'm advocating 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:11.520 that this man must be freed immediately. My job is 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:17.320 to protect the innocent. It is important to recognize when 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:22.119 the system has made wrongs, and what we did in 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:28.040 this case was wrong. So to Mr Strickland, I am 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:34.919 profoundly sorry. I am profoundly sorry for the harm um 0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:39.040 that has come to you. And to that end, Um, 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:44.200 I want to tell this community that I represent um, 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:50.000 that I find this mistake in this system to be profound, 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:54.439 to be one that I should take every ounce of 0:22:54.520 --> 0:23:01.240 energy I have to correct. I am sorry for this 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:08.159 mistake made by this system. An uphill battle for Jean Peters, Baker, 0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:12.280 Kim Gardner, and many of the other prosecutors in Missouri, 0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:16.880 but they may have just gotten a break. On July, 0:23:19.080 --> 0:23:24.040 Missouri Governor Mike Parson signs Senate Bill fifty three into law, which, 0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:28.680 among other things, creates quote a judicial procedure that provides 0:23:28.720 --> 0:23:32.719 a pathway for a prosecuting attorney to correct a miscarriage 0:23:32.720 --> 0:23:37.720 of justice resulting from a wrongful conviction. And there's some 0:23:37.760 --> 0:23:41.720 more good news. I'm beyond ecstatic to report that on 0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:47.520 November with the help of Tricia and the Midwest Innocence Project. 0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:51.240 A judge set aside the conviction of the now sixty 0:23:51.280 --> 0:23:56.480 two year old wheelchair dependent Kevin Strickland after serving forty 0:23:56.560 --> 0:24:01.639 three years in prison. He's finally free. Two victories, for sure, 0:24:02.240 --> 0:24:07.040 but the fight is far from over. I mean, forgive 0:24:07.080 --> 0:24:11.600 me for like being so pedestrian about it. But if 0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:16.359 Eric Schmidt's family member it's been wrongfully convicted, they're sitting 0:24:16.400 --> 0:24:20.800 in prison and it's just bureaucracy and it being politicized, 0:24:21.119 --> 0:24:23.440 and that's the stuff that's keeping their innocent loved one 0:24:23.480 --> 0:24:26.959 in prison, would they be reacting the same way. Well, 0:24:27.000 --> 0:24:28.960 I think that's a very good question to ask, because 0:24:29.040 --> 0:24:31.760 in the end of the day, it's about justice. In 0:24:31.840 --> 0:24:35.120 the end of the day, it should not be about 0:24:35.680 --> 0:24:40.040 a political pissing contest against the elected Stircuit attorney because 0:24:40.080 --> 0:24:43.679 you don't like her stance on reforming a system that 0:24:43.720 --> 0:24:47.240 we all know is beyond broken. Yeah, if I can 0:24:47.280 --> 0:24:49.960 get the Attorney General to call me back, I'll let 0:24:49.960 --> 0:24:54.479 you know what he says. Do you think that it's ego? 0:24:55.359 --> 0:24:58.359 Do you think they're afraid of payouts? And obviously you 0:24:58.400 --> 0:25:02.720 can't speak for them, but what isn't. I mean, why 0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:05.920 do they think it's I think it's the false premise 0:25:06.040 --> 0:25:09.120 of this law and auto rhetoric that some people run 0:25:09.160 --> 0:25:11.840 on a platform that that law and art are tough 0:25:11.880 --> 0:25:14.399 on crime. And we know that that was been allied, 0:25:14.480 --> 0:25:16.600 the war on drugs was aligned. We need to talk 0:25:16.640 --> 0:25:21.919 about the war on um, poor people, people of color. 0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:24.800 We need to you know, actually show and look at 0:25:24.840 --> 0:25:27.919 the data that have we made our city safe with 0:25:27.960 --> 0:25:32.160 the lawn auto rhetoric and we have not again, And 0:25:32.200 --> 0:25:35.399 like I told Kim, I've reached out to Attorney General 0:25:35.520 --> 0:25:39.840 Eric Schmidt multiple times for comment but have not heard back. He, 0:25:40.280 --> 0:25:43.560 like the ex Governor Eric Grayten's, is also running for 0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:47.000 the U. S. Senate. When we talk about Lamar Johnson, 0:25:47.160 --> 0:25:51.040 Rodney Lincoln, and many others, everyone should be doing their 0:25:51.080 --> 0:25:54.359 best under the rule of law to find a way, 0:25:54.400 --> 0:25:56.919 and even the courts, the courts have discretion to actually 0:25:56.920 --> 0:25:59.240 make away when there's no way, and I think that 0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:02.520 that's where we have to to really look at what 0:26:02.680 --> 0:26:05.240 is at stake. Mr Lincoln has served thirty six years 0:26:05.240 --> 0:26:09.200 of his life, I mean thirty six years and he's 0:26:09.359 --> 0:26:14.520 now seventy plus. You know, when you have lived most 0:26:14.520 --> 0:26:17.120 of your life can find for a crime you did 0:26:17.119 --> 0:26:20.480 not commit, just the mental angers, the mental torment, the 0:26:20.600 --> 0:26:23.720 toll it takes on a person's family. Ronney Lincoln's family 0:26:24.080 --> 0:26:27.320 and friends have served those thirty plus years with them, 0:26:27.359 --> 0:26:29.320 and the end of the day, we have to do 0:26:29.359 --> 0:26:31.879 better if we truly want people to believe in the 0:26:31.920 --> 0:26:34.400 criminal justice system. And I think that that's what says 0:26:34.400 --> 0:26:39.720 Steak is we have to make the system fair for everybody. 0:26:40.160 --> 0:26:42.879 It's about fairness and justice, and I believe that you know, 0:26:42.960 --> 0:26:44.639 either you gotta get on board or you need to 0:26:44.680 --> 0:26:56.479 get out the way. Well, it seems this is where 0:26:56.480 --> 0:27:00.160 our journey comes to an end. But the most most 0:27:00.200 --> 0:27:04.840 important question still remains. Who killed joe An Tate and 0:27:04.960 --> 0:27:10.040 savagely attacked Melissa and Renee. Circuit attorney Kim Gardner says 0:27:10.200 --> 0:27:14.200 the case is still open. Melissa, uncle Nat and aunt 0:27:14.280 --> 0:27:18.360 Lourie have since reached out to her office requesting whatever 0:27:18.520 --> 0:27:22.400 viable evidence there is be entered into the national databases. 0:27:23.200 --> 0:27:26.199 Maybe the DNA is too degraded. I don't know, but 0:27:26.400 --> 0:27:29.439 in my conversations with people close to the case, it 0:27:29.560 --> 0:27:33.000 seems there may be some fingerprints that, even if they 0:27:33.000 --> 0:27:36.320 aren't good enough to be a match to someone. Maybe 0:27:36.359 --> 0:27:40.920 they're good enough at least to exclude some people. Melissa 0:27:40.960 --> 0:27:44.920 and her family deserve the chance to possibly finally get 0:27:44.960 --> 0:27:51.439 the answers which have alluded them since April. Also a 0:27:51.520 --> 0:27:54.840 quick follow up on the Steve Vancy episode. I wanted 0:27:54.840 --> 0:27:57.920 to try to verify his story that police considered him 0:27:58.040 --> 0:27:59.879 enough of a suspect that they had him take a 0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:04.199 polygraph and then cleared him after he passed it. But 0:28:04.680 --> 0:28:07.439 I haven't been able to find anything in any of 0:28:07.440 --> 0:28:11.200