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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, Sophia Bush here. Welcome to Work in Progress,

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Speaker 1: where I talk to people who inspire me about how

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Speaker 1: they got to where they are and where they think

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Speaker 1: they're still going today. On the podcast, we have two

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Speaker 1: ladies that I love so deeply, Mandonna Dianni and Deborah Missing.

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Speaker 1: Debrah is an actor, philanthropist and Let's be Honest, a

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Speaker 1: global icon. Mandonna is an entrepreneur, an attorney, co founder

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Speaker 1: of I Am a Voter, and one of my very

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Speaker 1: best friends. Together, these ladies host a podcast called The

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Speaker 1: Dissenters where they talked to some of their heroes, people

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Speaker 1: who have challenged the status quo, stood up to injustice,

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Speaker 1: who are trailblazing, and for some reason they asked me

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Speaker 1: to be a dissenter. I'm still pinching myself. I had

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Speaker 1: so much fun nording out with these two on my

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Speaker 1: podcast today, talking all things activism, friendship, privilege, how we

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Speaker 1: spend it, and so much more. Enjoy. It's good to

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Speaker 1: see your face. It's so good to see you. I

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Speaker 1: miss you. I miss you too. It feels like forever.

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Speaker 1: It feels like so long, and I feel like time

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Speaker 1: is just going by so fast, and it's it's like

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Speaker 1: impossible to do all the things you need to do

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Speaker 1: for work and life and have a life. And I

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Speaker 1: don't I don't get it. Well, we've never tried to

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Speaker 1: have a life with a global pandemic and a civil

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Speaker 1: rights movement at the same time. You know. Incredible for

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Speaker 1: people at home who are probably wondering how we all

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Speaker 1: know each other? Oh my god. I mean when Donna

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Speaker 1: we spoke on a panel together. I don't even know

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Speaker 1: how long ago. That was ten years ago, at least

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Speaker 1: at least um, Yeah, we spoke on this panel in

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Speaker 1: l a h and just loved each other from from

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Speaker 1: jump and you know, I mean, you know how it is.

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Speaker 1: She walked in and I remember looking at her thinking,

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Speaker 1: that is the chicest person I've ever seen. She's so cool,

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Speaker 1: She's she's so effortless, she's so beautiful, and like looks

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Speaker 1: like a rock star. I don't understand what's going on.

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Speaker 1: And then I realized I was on a panel with her,

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Speaker 1: and then I felt totally intimidated, and I thought, I

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Speaker 1: wonder if she's gonna want to be nice to me,

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Speaker 1: And then halfway through the panel, I thought, do you

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Speaker 1: think she wants to be my friend. That was my experience,

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Speaker 1: and now you're one of my best friends. Thank god.

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Speaker 1: It's so annoying and so annoying, how like pretty and

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Speaker 1: chic and brilliant and you know it's yeah, Mandonna is

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Speaker 1: a unicorn. She walks in a room. No, it's true.

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Speaker 1: Every time you walk in a room, I think I

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Speaker 1: have to throw away all my clothes and to start over.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how to dress myself. I don't think

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Speaker 1: I know how to be an adult. Y. My entire

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Speaker 1: time sitting on that panel, I was just like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, this is the smartest person that has ever spoken.

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Speaker 1: The amount of passion that oozes out of every single

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Speaker 1: part of your body when you speak is insane. And

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Speaker 1: I just remember being like, what is she talking about?

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Speaker 1: Because you just jeb Win. I always talk about this

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Speaker 1: because you're like this walking encyclopedia of information and you

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Speaker 1: don't forget things, so you can just like drop in

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Speaker 1: like a historical fact from seventy four and like name

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Speaker 1: the seven people that worked on the Supreme Court a

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Speaker 1: hundred years. Like it's just like you know everything and

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Speaker 1: I don't understand weird. I don't know the name of

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Speaker 1: every Congressman and senator, and you can name every like

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Speaker 1: law of everything. I'm like, what happens in your brain?

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Speaker 1: Like I, I mean, I'm a nerd obviously, and I

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Speaker 1: went to law school, and I feel like every time

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Speaker 1: I would go into something, I would learn it and

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Speaker 1: then I would walk out and be like control, I'll delete,

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Speaker 1: make some space, like, but you somehow like retain all

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Speaker 1: of it. It's crazy. But here's what's weird. Okay, I

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Speaker 1: remember a lot of strange facts. I don't know every

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Speaker 1: single Senator. You're being kind, but but I but I

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Speaker 1: certainly I know my brain is a is a weird

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Speaker 1: kind of treasure trove of strange data. I do, I

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Speaker 1: do admit that. But the problem is, and I think,

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Speaker 1: and Deborah, I wonder if you feel this also something

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Speaker 1: that clicked as a kind of aha moment for me

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Speaker 1: was for us. Working in TV, you are trained to

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Speaker 1: memorize pages and pages of dialogue, especially when you do

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Speaker 1: a one hour show like when you were working you know,

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Speaker 1: on Smash or any of the other amazing things that

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Speaker 1: you've done. You're doing nine pages a day, so you're

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Speaker 1: memorizing all this story, all this dialogue. You're you're figuring

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Speaker 1: out how to have real feelings about all of these things,

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Speaker 1: and then the next day you have to do it again.

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Speaker 1: So what I've realized is that while I might be

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Speaker 1: able to tell you how much the United States GDP

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Speaker 1: would increase if we create a gender parody, but at

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Speaker 1: the snap of our fingers, it's over two billion dollars,

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Speaker 1: or an average of twelve points. I couldn't tell you

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Speaker 1: when anyone's birthday is. I don't know anyone's phone number.

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Speaker 1: I barely know my own. I can't remember things like

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Speaker 1: I just can't remember things. And you can tell you

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Speaker 1: a story and I'm so right there with you and

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Speaker 1: I'm in it, and I'll have a thought and maybe

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Speaker 1: I'll have advice and we can talk about it until

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Speaker 1: two in the morning over a bottle of wine. But

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Speaker 1: a year later, if you reference it, I'll look at

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Speaker 1: you like me too, what are you talking about? And

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Speaker 1: the minute you start to tell the story again, then

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Speaker 1: I can repeat it verbata. But until something jogs my memory,

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Speaker 1: it's gone. It's just gone. Because I've had to learn

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Speaker 1: to be really, really invested and then start over the

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Speaker 1: next day, so we all have a control out the lead,

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Speaker 1: and I really, I really don't know why. I don't

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Speaker 1: know why. I understand health data. You need to, but

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Speaker 1: you need to become a nerse, a neuroscient God Deva

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Speaker 1: and I were on vacation like a year, I don't

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Speaker 1: even know when that was, and she's hold because she

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Speaker 1: was before she did the I Love Lucy episode. So

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Speaker 1: she's walking around with this book of words and pages

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Speaker 1: from I Love Lucy and we were sitting at the

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Speaker 1: table and she looks at me because we were having

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Speaker 1: this whole conversation about memory, and she's like, you see this,

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Speaker 1: I know every word in here. That lovely woman we've

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Speaker 1: talked to forty five times, no idea what her name is.

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Speaker 1: I was like, an Alice is possible. Oh, you guys,

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Speaker 1: I am the same. It's awful. It's awful, and I'm

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Speaker 1: so embarrassed. But it seems it seems so rude too,

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Speaker 1: because I've been introduced to the same person five times

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Speaker 1: and I know that that person is like I have.

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Speaker 1: I've had to say my name five times, like she

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Speaker 1: is so self involved, she has so you know, and

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, no, my brain just doesn't doesn't work

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Speaker 1: that way. Yeah, I can't. I don't know why names

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Speaker 1: are like Kryptonite's for me and same, and then I

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Speaker 1: have all this sort of I have this deep seated,

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Speaker 1: like self conscious anxiety where I go, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: that person thinks I don't remember dar name because I'm

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Speaker 1: like a quote unquote famous person who doesn't care. And

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Speaker 1: it's literally not that. There are people in my neighborhood

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Speaker 1: I know the names of their dogs but not their names.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why my brain is like this. I'm like, oh, look,

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Speaker 1: it's Tucker and Tucker's dad, but I know that your

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Speaker 1: dog is allergic to chicken, and so I give him

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Speaker 1: different truths. What's wrong with me? It's so horrible. It's

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Speaker 1: dad is now going to introduce himself to you in

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Speaker 1: the park. Oh my god, probably and be like I

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Speaker 1: heard on your podcast. We still don't know my name.

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Speaker 1: It's been nine years. Things god, it's so embarrassing. But

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Speaker 1: that's funny. It makes me. It weirdly makes me feel better, Deborah,

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Speaker 1: that you have that also, And I do wonder if

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Speaker 1: it's some weird byproduct of what we do for a living.

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Speaker 1: Probably and obviously audience. That's how I know, Deborah. I

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Speaker 1: mean I knew you and was such a fan of

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Speaker 1: you and and so deeply loved you for for so

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Speaker 1: long as you know, an artist, ston as a storyteller.

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Speaker 1: And when we finally got to start hanging out, I

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Speaker 1: was just like, oh my god, what do I say

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Speaker 1: to her? And I remember you were like, you're such

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Speaker 1: a kick as activist online. I was like, what messing?

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Speaker 1: It was so surreal for me, and I was so

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Speaker 1: excited to finally meet you, you know, because I felt

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Speaker 1: like we were we were family members because we were

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Speaker 1: both on NBC right and you were filming in Chicago

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Speaker 1: and I was filming in New York at the time

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Speaker 1: Mysteries of Laura, and we did our commercial with Mrshka

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Speaker 1: and that was the first time we actually like spent

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Speaker 1: quality time together. And uh yeah, yeah. Isn't it funny

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Speaker 1: when you remember she's never messing because like all the time,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, she's like the greatest mom and friend, and

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Speaker 1: she's so funny and quirky, and it's like eating weird,

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Speaker 1: funny things and she's so like she's just Debra, And

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Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, there's like something that connects

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Speaker 1: it and you're like, oh, that's weird. Well, I love,

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Speaker 1: I love. That's the thing that um Mandana and I

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Speaker 1: have been talking a lot about is that through activism,

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Speaker 1: the wonderful byproduct is that you you end up finding

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Speaker 1: your people. Yes, you know, I mean I have long

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Speaker 1: time friends and and we have um bonds that will

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Speaker 1: never break that have to do with growing up and

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Speaker 1: going through you know, milestones together. But I think that

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Speaker 1: there is something unique about um fighting with someone, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: being shoulder to shoulder with people. And and I think

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Speaker 1: when you also get into these arenas and you realize

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Speaker 1: they require an immense amount of emotional stamina, which is

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Speaker 1: hard when when things are so sensitive, and when so

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Speaker 1: many of the people who wind up and these are

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Speaker 1: you know, do so because of empathy. I think when

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Speaker 1: you realize, you know, there's this weird misnomer in the

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Speaker 1: world where people think it's good for your job to

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Speaker 1: be political and it's actually so dangerous and it and

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Speaker 1: it comes at a great cost often, you know, for work.

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Speaker 1: And when people are willing to sacrifice to stand up

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Speaker 1: for what's right, it gives you such a clear understanding

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Speaker 1: of what they're made of. And every time I'm in

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Speaker 1: I'm in a space that I know is quote risky,

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Speaker 1: the other people step into it. I'm like, oh, those

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Speaker 1: are my people. These are my people. People that are like,

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Speaker 1: oh you don't like that, I'm here, That's okay. What

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Speaker 1: do you do when you get exhausted from everything all

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Speaker 1: the you know, your hat is in so many rings

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Speaker 1: and you're juggling so many things at the same time,

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Speaker 1: and they're you know, our there are setbacks, you know

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Speaker 1: in our and our hopes are dashed temporarily, and you

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Speaker 1: know that that takes a toll on your body, on

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Speaker 1: your emotional health and your mental health. What do you do?

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Speaker 1: It's kind of twofold for me. I have to check

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Speaker 1: in with myself a little bit. The first thing that

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Speaker 1: always either goes on the back burner or straight into

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Speaker 1: the garbage is self care for me. And you know,

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Speaker 1: one thing I just refused to make time for yes

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Speaker 1: and and And what I've had to come to terms

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Speaker 1: with is that, and I've learned this from people who

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Speaker 1: are wiser than me, is that this is such a

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Speaker 1: long fight. If we don't maintain our stamina, the rooms

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Speaker 1: that need us will lose us. And so even if

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Speaker 1: it's realizing I'm exhausted and taking a deep breath and literally,

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Speaker 1: you know, making like a giant Mason jart full of

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Speaker 1: warm water with my ben and and putting my phone

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Speaker 1: in a drawer for twenty minutes and sitting down reading something,

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Speaker 1: just just stepping back. That's something I'm really working on,

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Speaker 1: UM and and on the other end of it, So

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Speaker 1: there's a little bit of having to go in, you know.

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Speaker 1: I think of that as as the micro work, and

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Speaker 1: then on the other end of it, there's the macro

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Speaker 1: where where when things feel overwhelming, if I can, you know,

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Speaker 1: check in with myself and realize that that's how I'm feeling.

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling anxious, I'm feeling all the wound and feeling sad,

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling I'm getting caught in that loop of how

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Speaker 1: are we going to do this? If I can pull

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Speaker 1: back and look at the landscape of a cause, or

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Speaker 1: of our country, or of a movement, I have to

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Speaker 1: remind myself that so many people have done this for

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Speaker 1: so much longer than we have, and that and that

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Speaker 1: the organizers who have been putting in the work, and

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Speaker 1: that that this civil rights leaders of the nineteen sixties

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Speaker 1: were preparing us for the civil rights movement of then

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Speaker 1: that we are seeing conversations around UM, what we invest

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Speaker 1: in as communities signaling what our priorities are and why

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Speaker 1: are our priorities not our children are schools, health, welfare,

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Speaker 1: mental health. You know, these conversations are only possible because

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Speaker 1: a group of women founded Black Lives Matter seven years ago.

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Speaker 1: You know, the perseverance that is required is not lost

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Speaker 1: on me. And when I stepped into activist spaces and

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Speaker 1: I don't know two thousand seven, um, I had to

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Speaker 1: very quickly learn from smarter people in the room that

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Speaker 1: if you're not prepared for the longevity of this, do

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Speaker 1: something else. Activism is not social media. It doesn't constantly refresh.

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Speaker 1: It is a long game and you have to be

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Speaker 1: in it for the long haul. It's not sexy, it's

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Speaker 1: not immediate. But if if you want to really be

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Speaker 1: here and make sustainable, lasting change and learn about systemic

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Speaker 1: issues and how to change systems, that to me, I mean,

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Speaker 1: this feels like, you know, so social rocket science. I

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Speaker 1: think it's fascinating and rewarding and I wouldn't know how

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Speaker 1: else to do it, but I am certainly when that

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Speaker 1: makes me feel inspired. And then I taped back in.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, I need to figure out how to

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Speaker 1: maybe feed myself a little better and sleep a little

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Speaker 1: more because I if I burn out, then then I

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Speaker 1: can't show up. Yeah, but it's hard. I think about it,

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Speaker 1: especially for the two of you because you guys have

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Speaker 1: kids and I and I wonder about what it's like

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Speaker 1: to have to make sure you're making space for your kids,

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Speaker 1: and especially Debora because you know you're you know, Mandonna,

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Speaker 1: your kids are little, but Debra, your son is old

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Speaker 1: enough to really understand what's going on. And I understand

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Speaker 1: that even with little kids, you have to begin teaching

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Speaker 1: them about these things. How how do you each figure

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Speaker 1: out how to segment your your families in ways that

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Speaker 1: you know that that will allow you to feel like

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Speaker 1: you're not overwhelmed. I mean it's like so type A.

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Speaker 1: But part of it is just schedule, schedule, schedule, right,

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Speaker 1: I think, in particularly when they're young and then you're

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Speaker 1: like working on naps and you're working. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: so much that goes into it. But like I think

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Speaker 1: it comes from just being an organizer myself and having

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Speaker 1: helped run businesses. It's like everything is organized for me

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Speaker 1: by like this is who picks up, this is who

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Speaker 1: drops off my husband and my husband's amazing. So it's

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Speaker 1: like he has these responsibilities. I have these my you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm like so privileged to live near my entire family,

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Speaker 1: so they chip in a lot. It's just a lot

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Speaker 1: of management of time and where people are. And I

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Speaker 1: think it's you know what, the greatest learning factors I

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Speaker 1: think I had when when my first daughter, Anderson was born,

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Speaker 1: was was the realization that I think I never realized

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Speaker 1: I really had this level of self importance before of like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, nothing in the world will get done

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Speaker 1: if I don't do it. And then you have a

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Speaker 1: child and your home with your child, and you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: everything's fine, Like the world continued, businesses didn't fall apart, right,

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Speaker 1: Like the emails got sent and and it became okay

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Speaker 1: to ask for more help, and it became okay to say,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I don't need to go to that event.

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Speaker 1: Everyone at the event is still going to have a

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Speaker 1: good time if I'm not there. Um. And so I

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Speaker 1: think managing time and also managing like my my own

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Speaker 1: expectations of myself and and rooting that in some reality

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Speaker 1: about what my time actually needs to do. And it's

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Speaker 1: weird because even this time within this pandemic and being

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Speaker 1: home it has like almost forced me to reevaluate that again,

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Speaker 1: like what were all these things I used to do

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Speaker 1: with my time? Um and I and I think, like

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Speaker 1: really understanding how valuable time is for me happened when

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Speaker 1: I had children and and everything else kind of fell

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Speaker 1: in line. Was like, Okay, this is work, but work

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Speaker 1: is work. That work needs to stop at some point,

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Speaker 1: you know, there has to be shut off. And I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to miss bathtime. I'm not going to miss

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Speaker 1: these things. And you know, I mean just working with Debra,

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Speaker 1: like it does not matter where she is or what

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Speaker 1: she's doing. She will get on a plane and she

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Speaker 1: will go home and she will see Roman for the

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Speaker 1: thing that is important to Roman and that is important

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Speaker 1: to her and it's not negotiable. And so it's it's

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Speaker 1: kind of creating those boundaries even for yourself, going into

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Speaker 1: experiences of of kind of what you know you expect

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Speaker 1: of yourself and what people are allowed to expect of you.

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Speaker 1: My last company that I worked for, I was like,

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Speaker 1: I know, I used to go and travel for fashion

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Speaker 1: week for like eight weeks at a time. I'm not

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Speaker 1: getting on a plane for more than three days for work. Sorry.

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Speaker 1: I think that it's important to acknowledge um our privilege

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Speaker 1: when we have this conversation because as a white woman,

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Speaker 1: um uh, who has enough income to not worry about

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Speaker 1: paying my bills. Um it, it is a privilege to

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Speaker 1: be able to say, I'm sorry any time my child

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Speaker 1: has anything at school, I'm going and you have to

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Speaker 1: you have to adjust, or else I'm not doing this job.

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Speaker 1: And so I think that I'm I'm I'm keenly aware

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Speaker 1: that it took thirty years in the business to get

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Speaker 1: for me to get to this point where I can

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Speaker 1: actually actively advocate for myself and my son as a

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Speaker 1: single mother. I think it was very different when I

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Speaker 1: was a new mom. And um, I actually think that

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Speaker 1: Madonna right now, I think that the age of the girls,

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Speaker 1: I think it's actually the most difficult, uh in trying

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Speaker 1: to be involved and active and to be able to

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Speaker 1: be a wife, be a mother, be a an entrepreneur, businesswoman,

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Speaker 1: and also to take action in social justice, you know,

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Speaker 1: because it is it is so micromanaged, because there is

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Speaker 1: you know, it is naps, and it is you know,

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Speaker 1: the food and the bedtime and everything. It's it's so

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Speaker 1: consequential and I think it it's harder to carve out time. UM.

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Speaker 1: The difference that that I feel now that my son

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Speaker 1: is older is that what's happening in the world feels

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Speaker 1: like it is impacting him for the first time. Like

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Speaker 1: when he was three and I went to Africa on

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Speaker 1: behalf of p S I, you know, as ambassador for

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Speaker 1: HIV AIDS. I had to go away for twelve days

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Speaker 1: and I had never been away from him ever, and

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Speaker 1: he was three and I was going away for twelve days,

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Speaker 1: and I remember the pain of that and feeling feeling

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Speaker 1: very conflicted and feeling like in some way I was

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Speaker 1: I was um betraying him and my role as a mother.

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Speaker 1: But I was able to tell him what I was

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Speaker 1: doing and tell him, you know, explain to him what

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Speaker 1: the situation was, you know, in Zimbabwe where I was

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Speaker 1: going at the time, and he wanted to give me

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Speaker 1: clothes that he had outgrown, and so I said, okay,

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Speaker 1: work on you. You pick out the things that you

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Speaker 1: want me to bring and I will bring them. And

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Speaker 1: so you know, to to get the kids involved, UM

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Speaker 1: I early and learning about charity and about UM being

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Speaker 1: an active UH, an active citizen, I think is important.

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Speaker 1: UM now you know, he's sixteen, so, you know, trying

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Speaker 1: to put myself in his shoes as about Okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: at school, I'm in high school, and their shootings. It's

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Speaker 1: it's a whole other it's a whole other world. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think that idea always raise your kids with a

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Speaker 1: sense that they can contribute is such a gift um

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Speaker 1: that parents give to give to their kids. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think we're seeing now the the kind of unintended

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Speaker 1: I believe on on the part of a lot of

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Speaker 1: parents and communities. Not unintended by this system, because the

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Speaker 1: system was designed to work exactly as it is, but

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Speaker 1: but we see these unintended consequences of a lack of real, deep,

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Speaker 1: repetitive education on civic engagement. You know, schools were having

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Speaker 1: civics removed from classrooms. I think a lot of parents

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Speaker 1: didn't realize that, and a lot of parents I talked

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Speaker 1: to a lot of friends now who are figuring out

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Speaker 1: how to do this with kids, who are saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: we are the ones who have to teach our kids

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Speaker 1: that democracy is an action verb. It doesn't work unless

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Speaker 1: we work it. And you there was always this assumption

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Speaker 1: that you would learn that in school, and then you

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Speaker 1: discovered that there are powers that be that want us

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Speaker 1: to be disenfranchised and want us to not know how

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Speaker 1: the government were structured because it makes it easier for

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Speaker 1: people in power to maintain power by you know, subverting

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Speaker 1: democracy in you know ways that varying extremes on the spectrum.

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Speaker 1: I really heartened by my friends who have kids who

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Speaker 1: talk about the ways that they are explaining this stuff.

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Speaker 1: You know, Mandonna, I love seeing Anderson talking about how

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Speaker 1: she can't wait to vote and and president. You know,

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Speaker 1: but she does. She volunteers. I'm a voter all the time,

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Speaker 1: and she wants to register people and she but we

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Speaker 1: talked about voting since she was too, and we vote

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Speaker 1: all the time, and we'll vote on what ice cream

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Speaker 1: flavor we're all going to eat for dinner. But it's

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Speaker 1: her understanding that, you know, you have an active say

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Speaker 1: in the outcome because by voicing your opinion. And so

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Speaker 1: it's training, you know, We've been working so hard on

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Speaker 1: training her to understand the power of her participation. Um

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Speaker 1: and we let her kind of pick the things that

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Speaker 1: really matter to her. So like there was a period

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Speaker 1: where she really was so sad to learn about the

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Speaker 1: ocean and um pollution, and so we would go on

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Speaker 1: the weekends and she would clean up the beaches and

401
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 1: and that made her really feel like she was a

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Speaker 1: part of something. And so it's weird. I don't I

403
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Speaker 1: think as young as they're willing to engage, which can

404
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 1: be really like two or three years old. Like it's

405
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 1: it's so amazing to just include like I take her

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Speaker 1: with me everywhere. I take she went to every woman's

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Speaker 1: march with me. You know, she loves it and she

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Speaker 1: wants to understand it and read books. You know, we

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Speaker 1: read books, and Um, she she has a pretty great

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Speaker 1: understanding even though she's five, of of how society works

411
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Speaker 1: and how at the foundation of all of it it's

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Speaker 1: kindness because kindness is empathy and kindness is community. And

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Speaker 1: so she is responsible for kindness in the last two weeks,

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Speaker 1: specifically because of everything that's been happening with all of

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Speaker 1: these protests all around the world. Um. And talking about education,

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Speaker 1: you know, I I went all the way through my

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Speaker 1: master's and I never had a black history class my

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Speaker 1: entire my entire educational career. I never had a women's

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Speaker 1: studies class. And you know, and I know that my son,

420
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: you know, doesn't have classic civics stuff, but but in

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Speaker 1: his school he has all of that. He he has,

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Speaker 1: you know, And it's just it's incredible to recognize the

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00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: general rational gap in UM education because we depend so

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Speaker 1: much on our schools to teach these things to our children.

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Speaker 1: But um, you know, if it wasn't even being discussed

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Speaker 1: thirty years ago, forty years ago, um, and that's that's

427
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Speaker 1: it's hard. It's hard to come to terms with that.

428
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 1: How we failed, how we how our country has has

429
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,880
Speaker 1: failed all of us in that way. And I think

430
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 1: that that that's been part of what's so interesting is

431
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: as we do have these conversations around shifting budgets, you know,

432
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 1: as activists have coined the term defund the police, which

433
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:49,239
Speaker 1: is very intentionally been chosen as an agitational phrase, as

434
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: a phrase that sounds extreme so that it requires further inspection.

435
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: The idea being that we have been defunding education, healthcare, communities,

436
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: community be safety for years while crime has been going down,

437
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: we've been increasing budgets. So imagine if we reduced those

438
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: budgets back to a more i don't want to say sane,

439
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: but a more appropriate size and put some of that

440
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: money back into schools. Imagine what we could do. Imagine

441
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: the the art therapies, and the and then the music

442
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 1: programs and and the things that really help kids find

443
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: themselves and and and the women's studies and and travel

444
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: to explore black history and all of the things that

445
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: our kids deserve. That and that feels exciting to me.

446
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: And all of all of that comes back to the census, right,

447
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: I mean, right now, that's that's the most pressing thing

448
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: is you know, it's trying to get everybody to participate

449
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 1: and to fill out the census. And you know, because

450
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 1: all of our our local government, all of the the

451
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: moneys that are distributed are based on that information. Yeah,

452
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: and that's something you know, I was never taught me neither,

453
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: And that's part of what interests me because obviously we

454
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: all find ourselves here, you know, we ourselves being women

455
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: who have careers um which you can see where they

456
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: might overlap, but really we we have these deep friendships

457
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: because of our civic commitments, because of activism, because of

458
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 1: the work that we do together, and and in thinking

459
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: about what we what information we did and didn't have

460
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: access to, you know, we were growing up. It it

461
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 1: makes me want to go backwards, which I always love

462
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: to do with people anyway. So so perhaps let's start

463
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 1: easiest question and then we'll go into what we were learning. UM.

464
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 1: But for for that kind of context, for childhood context,

465
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: can each tell me where you grew up. I grew

466
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: up in East Greenwich, Rhode Island. It was a rural suburb.

467
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: I grew up on four aecres of land with um

468
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: pine trees everywhere, and um the nearest gas station was

469
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: eight miles away, and I was one of three Jewish

470
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 1: kids in the whole school system. UM. I was born

471
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: in Iran, and we left Iran I think when I

472
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: was about five years old. We left as religious refugees

473
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: went and we traveled through UM italy Um where we

474
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: stayed with one of our neighbors from Iran UM and

475
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: then asylum through this organization called Highest which helps Jewish

476
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: refugees resettle in America, and then they helped us resettle

477
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: in New York. And so we moved to New York

478
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: when I was like basically six, and we were there

479
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: about three years or two years, and then we moved

480
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: Chile and then I've basically been here forever within a

481
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: one mile radius in my family with no option to leave.

482
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: How important was family to each of you and tradition?

483
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: And you know, obviously Mandatta, you came to California with

484
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: family and there is such a a sort of beautiful

485
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: Jewish community here in l A. But you know, Debra,

486
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: you're talking about being one of three Jewish kids in

487
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: your whole town. Did that feel isolating? Did you experience discrimination? What?

488
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: What was that like? Well, both my parents grew up

489
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: very poor in Brooklyn and UM. So when they got married,

490
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: my father got two job offers. One was in Long Island,

491
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: one was in Rhode Island, and the cost of living

492
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: was much lower to live in Rhode Island. And so

493
00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: that's what determined them moving to Rhode Island. And and

494
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: when we arrived, they realized it was a very different community.

495
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: You know, they grew up in Brooklyn, UM, where it

496
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: was very diverse. Um, every color, every every religion, and

497
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: we moved somewhere where it was it was white, it

498
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: was white, Irish Catholic and um. You know, our our

499
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: temple was a half hour away. That was the closest temple.

500
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: So it was I I now I learned in retrospect

501
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: how isolated and loan I felt growing up. Um I

502
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: was there. One Halloween, we woke up and um, there

503
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: was a swastika painted on my grandfather's car in the driveway.

504
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: And I remember vividly the reaction, the fear, the shame

505
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: that came along with that, and UM, so I I

506
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: think early I got a sense that I was another

507
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: in that community. And UM, as a result, I tried

508
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: to disappear and tried to not bring attention to myself. UM,

509
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: but I do remember there was we didn't have anyone

510
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: anyone of color until in our community. UM, I think

511
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: until like seventh grade, and Uh, this wonderful girl, Heidi

512
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: Uh came to school and um we became friends. And

513
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: I remember bringing her home and asked my mom, Mom,

514
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: can I have you know my friend Heidi come over?

515
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: She said, of course. And I remember after my mom

516
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: after Heidi left, she was like, well she was lovely,

517
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: and I said, yeah, she's really nice. And she was like,

518
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: I'm so happy that it never even occurred to you

519
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: to tell me that she was black. And I was like,

520
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: why would I tell you that? And and she was

521
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: like That's why I'm proud, because it should it should

522
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: not matter and um, and that was the end of

523
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: the conversation. Uh. But um, but there was there was

524
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: a cultural struggle, you know. I I it was very

525
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: clear to me that my parents wish that we lived

526
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: in a Jewish community. They wished that they could tell

527
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: me that I could only date Jewish boys. They made

528
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: it clear that if we lived in New York that

529
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: would be the directive at the time. But ultimately, I

530
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: think we as a family, uh grew a lot through

531
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: the experience. And when did you discover performing arts? Was

532
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: it in Rhode Island or Oh no, no? I started.

533
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: You know, I was dancing before I could walk, and

534
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: so when I was through when I was three, I

535
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: was in ballet class and then tap class and then

536
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: jazz class, and um, I was you know, my mother

537
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: made albums when she was a teenager. She was a singer,

538
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: and so music was on all the time. And uh

539
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: so I was singing and my goal was to you know,

540
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: be a triple threat on Broadway. That was my dream.

541
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: And I remember when I was in elementary school, I said, Mom,

542
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: I want to go to Fame. Um. There was a

543
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: TV show called Fame that was the performing arts high school.

544
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: And I said I want to go to New York

545
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: and dance on the taxi cabs. And um, I literally

546
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: said that because that's the opening of the of the

547
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: TV show and my mom. And my mom was like, you,

548
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: there is no way I would let you go to

549
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: New York. You you it's too dangerous. You grew up,

550
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,959
Speaker 1: you know, next to a farm running over and watching

551
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: horses being born. You are not you are not ready

552
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: for New York City. And um, and so I just

553
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: did all the plays and went to performing arts camp

554
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: and and did all of that and then went to

555
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: college and studied it. And Mandonna, what were you into

556
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: as a kid? I mean it's you know, it's like

557
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: to go to your first question. I think it's it's

558
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 1: very strange when you leave. Like they were Jewish people

559
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 1: in Iran for a thousand years, but like we were

560
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: Iranian before, we were mentally Jewish, right because every food

561
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 1: we eat like Persian food, and we have Persian music

562
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: and we dance Persians. And so when the revolution happened

563
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: and that whole crisis came about where you know, where

564
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: we had to flee our country was the first time

565
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: where we were like, oh, we're Jewish and that's different

566
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: and people don't like us because of that. And it

567
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: was very strange to reevaluate like your own identity because

568
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: it was really not how we identified ourselves. Everything about

569
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,280
Speaker 1: what we do even today, our language, our food, every

570
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: cultural tradition is really wrapped around being Persian um. And

571
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: so it was very strange to feel like you're not

572
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: welcomed in the country that you were born. And all

573
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 1: your ancestors were born in my dad's Kurdish you know,

574
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: he his dad, my dad's dad was the rabbi of

575
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: the entire Courtish tribe. He was. You know, it was like,

576
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: it's so weird because our roots are so entrenched and

577
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 1: like that that part of the world um, and then

578
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: you're like you have to leave um. And so just

579
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: leaving itself was super traumatic. And you know, coming to

580
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 1: America and I we always say this, but it's like

581
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 1: the irony and the horrible irony of of the propaganda

582
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: that you see some this administration continued to push out

583
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: is that like immigrants are actually the most patriotic people

584
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,879
Speaker 1: in our country because like we know how shitty our

585
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: lives were, and like we came here, Like I always say,

586
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: America saved my life. You know, it saved my family's life,

587
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 1: like it gave us the opportunity to be the best

588
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 1: versions of ourselves and to live you know, as beautifully

589
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: as we do today. Like me, we literally our textbook

590
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,800
Speaker 1: cases of the American dream, Like we came here without

591
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:55,919
Speaker 1: a dollar, and I became a lawyer and my brother

592
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: became a surgeon and we have this amazing life and

593
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: all of these incredible tratunities that only happened because America

594
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 1: welcomed us and so and I think that's that was

595
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: really what routed me and all of the activism was

596
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:12,240
Speaker 1: that I felt this this huge debt, like I always

597
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 1: felt since I can remember, that I needed to give

598
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: back to make it okay that I got so much

599
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: from this experience. And um, but I think also it's

600
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: it's really scary. It's like you when you come to

601
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 1: a country and you don't speak the language, and you

602
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: have no money, any have no idea where you're going.

603
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 1: I mean, all you have is your family. And so

604
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: I just held my parents hand and we went through it,

605
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: and my mom learned English so she could teach us English,

606
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: and my brother had to look out for me when

607
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 1: people would make fun of me because I didn't speak English,

608
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 1: you know, and and we just became so close and

609
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: there's this like weird like village mentality with other people

610
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: that are like you, where it like you just have

611
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: to protect each other. And and I think it's part

612
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: of why I was so scrappy, because I, you know,

613
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: we didn't know anything. So I'm like nine years old

614
00:36:57,719 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: figuring out interest rates for my parents because they don't

615
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: speak game Lish and they don't understand do you know

616
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 1: what they mean? Like they don't know how to do

617
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: all these things, so like I don't understand interest, so

618
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: I have to talk about it. So it was like

619
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: we had to also parent them through things that were

620
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: completely outside of their comprehension because they didn't know the

621
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 1: culture or the language. And um, we've kind of just

622
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 1: been this unit of like we're going to get through

623
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: it and like we're we're just tied to each other forever.

624
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 1: And um. But I I mean that whole experience I

625
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: think of coming to America was was so formative for

626
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: me obviously, but I wasn't into anything cause I don't

627
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: think I really had like time to be into anything.

628
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think I was learning to speak English,

629
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: and yeah, but you were an activist, like in in

630
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: elementary school. Yes, I guess, I don't know. I never

631
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: thought about it that way, but I think I just

632
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: I always love to lead, So I was like the

633
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: president of things and did things, and I volunteered from

634
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: such a young age. Um, And it was always when

635
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 1: I felt the most in my own skin, you know,

636
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: I was just like surrounded by people. I was so inspired.

637
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: I was so excited. Um and I really you know

638
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: that a feeling you get where you're like, I'm exactly

639
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: where I'm supposed to be. Yeah, And it's something that

640
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: I've always struggled with finding because half of my life

641
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: was doing what I thought my family and everyone expected

642
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,800
Speaker 1: me to do, and then the other, like more secret

643
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: half was doing the things that I really loved. And

644
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 1: I considered those things hobbies. But when I would do

645
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 1: those things, I was like, oh my god, I'm in

646
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 1: my own skin. I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be.

647
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: This is what I you know, this is what I

648
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: love doing, but this is a hobby. And really only

649
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: the last two years since I'm a voter, was you

650
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: know when I was like, oh, I am myself, I

651
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 1: am I am like, I am finally being me, and

652
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: I don't care how that affects everybody else. I think

653
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,760
Speaker 1: there's I think there's such a culture of expectation placed

654
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:02,280
Speaker 1: on so many people, and especially you know, it's American

655
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 1: individualism is a double edged sword, right, Like the pursuit

656
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 1: of the American dream is so beautiful. It's it's something

657
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 1: that all of our families did. It's why my father

658
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: immigrated here. It's why my mother's mother immigrated here, you know,

659
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,839
Speaker 1: Um Deborah, Like those those early New York stories. You know,

660
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,720
Speaker 1: my my grandmother came here with her mother and father

661
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: as a child through Ellis Island, and you know, my

662
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: her family stayed in New York and my mom grew

663
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: up in the Bronx with nothing, and and yeah, you

664
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: know those those were those were and our our stories.

665
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: And yet there is this complex other side, this other

666
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: sharp side of that individualist culture, where we can get

667
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: so caught up improving that we're worthy, that we can

668
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: get very far down these roads of proving. And I

669
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 1: think I think very often it can be injustice for

670
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,439
Speaker 1: women in particular, that shake us awake, where we go, wait,

671
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: what am I doing? Who am I trying? To prove

672
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: this too. Who who am I trying to prove that

673
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,439
Speaker 1: I'm worth this or that I can do this when

674
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: the thing that lights me up, the thing that you know,

675
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: lights that fire in my soul, is happening over there.

676
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: And and I think it's, you know, no coincidence that

677
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 1: each of us, in our own way finds like a

678
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: true expression of our identity and serving other people and

679
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 1: in demanding, you know, that that justice be served. Um

680
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: I think back to eighth grade, you know, helping to

681
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: lead a walk out at school and protest and all

682
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 1: of these things. You know, we've all got these stories,

683
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: and and when you fast forward to now, it makes

684
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: sense and even you know, when we all think about

685
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: those things we were volunteering for and working on, and

686
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 1: the causes we've supported, and and you know, Deborah, especially

687
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 1: for you and I being in the public eye, the

688
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 1: privilege of having a mega where you can draw attention

689
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: to things like you know, lgbt Q rights and the

690
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: AIDS crisis, and and and and and and and the

691
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,399
Speaker 1: list goes on. You know, those those are spaces where

692
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: it's such an honor to to spend your privilege and

693
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: and show up was was being on willing grace and

694
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 1: seeing the literal um societal change in opinion that it caused.

695
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 1: Was was that what woke you up to that world?

696
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: Or or was it a world you were already so

697
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 1: deeply invested in because as you had come up in

698
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,800
Speaker 1: a theater community, which is generally such a safe haven

699
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: for queer kids and kids who feel like outsiders. Uh no,

700
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: it it started in childhood when I when I went

701
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,919
Speaker 1: away for summer stock in high school and I met

702
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: my first openly gay performers and people. Um. And uh.

703
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 1: Ultimately what happened was my ingraduate school at n y

704
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,240
Speaker 1: U Acting School. UM, we had a games teacher named

705
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 1: Paul Walker, and uh he had AIDS and he was

706
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 1: the first person that I had met who had AIDS.

707
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 1: And UM. For three years, we watched him decline, and

708
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 1: we watched the the k S lesions grow, and he

709
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: would stay out of school and we would all worry

710
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 1: and UM. And three months after I graduated, UM, he

711
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: died at forty one. And uh, you know, going down

712
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: there at to the hospital and saying goodbye, UM and

713
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: seeing two hundred students waiting in a line to go

714
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: one by one to say goodbye and to say I

715
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 1: love you, um, and you know the impact of this

716
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 1: person on on all of our lives was monumental and

717
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: to see him gone way too soon was catastrophic. And

718
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 1: so really that was the catalyst for me, and that's

719
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: where it began. And it was when I got Will

720
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 1: and Grays and I and I realized, Um, once we

721
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: were embraced, because we didn't know if we would be embraced,

722
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 1: but once we were embraced and we were told by

723
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 1: the community, UM that their representation was meaningful and UM,

724
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: that was when I think we all started to feel

725
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:43,800
Speaker 1: a much bigger responsibility as members of the cast Um.

726
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 1: And it was it was through that that show and

727
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 1: the work we did as a cast Um that led

728
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: to you know, my ambassadorship and and my work in Africa.

729
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: And so I kind of feel like that work is

730
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 1: like I call it my soul work, but I kind

731
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: of feel like my whole life was all leading me

732
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 1: toward it. Yeah, I feel that. But I was never

733
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: brave like you, like the two of you, Like I

734
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: never lead anything in in school, high school, uh, elementary school.

735
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: I was not like that. And UM, it just occurs

736
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 1: to me now that that it may well have been

737
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,800
Speaker 1: because I was feeling like such an outsider and and

738
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: and feeling like I had to keep my voice quelled

739
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: in order just to sort of survive, you know, the

740
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:44,399
Speaker 1: school experience. I mean, when when you are experiencing your

741
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 1: your own mother ing and and the sort of variations

742
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: of trauma that can make a person feel, it becomes

743
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 1: survival instincts. So I have an immense amount of sympathy

744
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: for a kid in that position. And I also think

745
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 1: we have to consider time, you know, we have to

746
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: consider the calendar years and and what what was being

747
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,479
Speaker 1: shown to us and when you know, I think about

748
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: your experience in college, and and it it sort of

749
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 1: ties for me to being in elementary school. You know

750
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: here in l A. My dad, until you retired, was

751
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: you know, a fashion and advertising photographer. I grew up

752
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: in a very queer community. And all of my like

753
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: cute uncle that my dad's you know office at the

754
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: photo studio to makeup artists and the hair and the

755
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 1: hairstylists and and you know, the wardrobe guys. That this incredible,

756
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: very theatrical l A community. At you know, six and

757
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: seven and eight years old, everyone was dying, you know, everyone.

758
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: And I mean, my parents probably lost fort of their

759
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 1: friend group during the AIDS crisis. Oh my god, like

760
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: it was, it was unconscionable, Oh my god. And and

761
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: it it was really hard to process as a kid.

762
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 1: But you know, I remember seeing the front page of

763
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: I guess it would have been the New York Times,

764
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: you know, when I died, dropped my body on the

765
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 1: steps of the CDC because the CDC was denying you know, treatment,

766
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: and and and you know, it shouldn't be lost on

767
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 1: any of us, you know, and anyone listening at home.

768
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: Please do you know, here's a little homework moment for you.

769
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 1: Please do some research on the current head of the CDC,

770
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 1: who was appointed by Donald Trump, who is a violent,

771
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: dangerous AIDS denier, who is a man who was fired

772
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 1: from the military for questionable scientific practices as a doctor,

773
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: who believes that you fight the AIDS pandemic on planet

774
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,760
Speaker 1: Earth by encouraging absince, and that people don't deserve condoms

775
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: or clean needles. I mean, this is this is an

776
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: affront to medicine and an affront to um to stopping

777
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 1: a disease. And it's not lost on me that the

778
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:17,280
Speaker 1: CDC's response to COVID has been lackluster, to put it kindly,

779
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: and that hundred and fifteen thousand Americans and counting are

780
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: dead because we've implemented no testing, no contact tracing. This

781
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: is unacceptable. And and the parallels between the two, especially

782
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: given you know, the references to the AIDS crisis UM

783
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:39,280
Speaker 1: as a person who grew up in it, are enraging

784
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 1: to say the least. And and you know, like you, Debra,

785
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: can kind of when I look back, I go, oh, right,

786
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 1: I was raised to do this. I was raised by

787
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 1: a family who didn't hide it for me. I was

788
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 1: raised by parents who talked to me about what was

789
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,879
Speaker 1: happening to our commuter during the AIDS crisis in terms

790
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 1: of what they had witnessed protesting Vietnam UM and marching

791
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 1: for civil rights and and doing the things that they did.

792
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: And so there was always a a sense that justice

793
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 1: didn't just happen. We had to demand it. And that's

794
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: what makes me excited about what we're seeing happening right now.

795
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 1: Something something, for whatever reason, even though this this is

796
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 1: long overdue, something clicked for people while we've all been

797
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 1: at home sort of in stillness, and and the veil

798
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 1: has been ripped off, and the excuses we have made

799
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:43,879
Speaker 1: collectively for a lack of of equitable justice are not

800
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 1: doing more. We're refusing to take the status quo. And

801
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 1: and my hope is that that carries us forward into

802
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 1: a new a new place. Amen. Yeah, and then when

803
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 1: I get nervous us about things, I can call Madonna

804
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 1: and say, okay, but legally, what does this mean? It's

805
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 1: really nice to have I'll tell you what you know,

806
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: because because you can also explain a pursuit of justice

807
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 1: not simply through what and feel like an obvious moral lens,

808
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: but through a legal channel. You know, when when we

809
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:29,439
Speaker 1: see the risk of judges being appointed to courts who

810
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:36,919
Speaker 1: are political rather than um then who prioritized politics rather

811
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 1: than prioritizing legality and equality, we I think we can

812
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 1: really understand the impact. But you, you, as a trained lawyer,

813
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 1: understand that in ways that are I think so important

814
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 1: to the rest of us. And it's so helpful too

815
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 1: to be able to call on you with with those questions.

816
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 1: So thanks for going to law school for the rest

817
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:02,320
Speaker 1: of us. I'm so glad to have incurred that debt

818
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: for this, but sorry about that part. You know, it's

819
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 1: what's so just listening to you speak, I have no

820
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: idea if if anything I'm about to say is not

821
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 1: okay to say. But what I keep finding myself feeling

822
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 1: over the last three weeks is obviously like heartbreak, but

823
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: putting just changing that for one second. I constantly just

824
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 1: sit there and I feel like my brain is exploding

825
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 1: because I can't even believe that we're having the conversations

826
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 1: that we're having. The fact that we're like having conversations

827
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 1: about Confederate flags is shocking, Like when you take us,

828
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 1: I understand like that we need to talk about them

829
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: because we have to address them, but also the fact

830
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: that we're talking about this like it's an actual conversation

831
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 1: and it's not so clear how this is supposed to

832
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,359
Speaker 1: move forward. And I feel the same way every time

833
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,040
Speaker 1: we talk about COVID and our responses to testing. I

834
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,760
Speaker 1: feel this way even to yesterday with the Supreme Court

835
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 1: and the ruling on on gay rights, and I was like,

836
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 1: of course, what are you talking about? Why would you

837
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: ever be able to discriminate against someone because of their

838
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: of this? Like, how are we It was such a victory,

839
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 1: but it shouldn't even have been a conversation. This is America.

840
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 1: And I feel that way today about the DOCCA ruling

841
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 1: that it's it's such an amazing day. And I have been,

842
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 1: you know, following this DOCA thing so closely, and it

843
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: really just impacts me on such a deep level. But

844
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: I'm like, did we really need a ruling? I mean,

845
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 1: we're America, Like, why are we having these conversations as

846
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: if it's a thousand years ago? It's I it's shocking.

847
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: We know that we know what is right as a

848
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 1: country right, and we know what our country's values are,

849
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 1: and it's sometimes I'm having a really hard time dignifying

850
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 1: some of these conversations and being like, well, the reason

851
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 1: that you shouldn't have a Confederate flag is similar to

852
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 1: how you would feel if you walked and saw like

853
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 1: a Hitler statue. I mean, really, you can't make that

854
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,959
Speaker 1: connection in your brain, but does it strike you? And

855
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,839
Speaker 1: and this is what makes me curious. We claim to

856
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: know what our ideals are, but we've never actually upheld

857
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 1: the ideals for anyone but the quote unquote ruling class.

858
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 1: We've never we've never really been the land of the

859
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 1: free or equal. We we have these beautiful ideals and

860
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 1: I believe it's our job generationally to demand that we

861
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 1: move closer and closer to them. But when you consider

862
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 1: the fact that the Jim Crow hero is less than

863
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 1: a hundred years ago, When you consider the fact that

864
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 1: we just celebrated Loving Day because the right to have

865
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:49,240
Speaker 1: an interracial marriage was one in what is it ninety

866
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 1: seven or sixty eight, I mean, that's mental to me.

867
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 1: And and it's it's really no different than this debate

868
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,319
Speaker 1: about you know, quote unquote gay marriage. It's like, let's

869
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 1: stop calling it gay marriage or interracial marriage. Marriage is marriage.

870
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: If you love someone and you want to marry them,

871
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:08,280
Speaker 1: what business is that of anyone? But you like, unless

872
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 1: you're being coerced into a marriage, I don't think anyone

873
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 1: should be able to weigh in. I think that's the

874
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: thing that has been so um just it's been such

875
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: a shock to the system. You know, we've all known

876
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:27,880
Speaker 1: that that there is a race problem in our in

877
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: our country, that that we are not we are not

878
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 1: living the the vision that our founders had um But

879
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 1: because of this incredible advent of the cell phone video,

880
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 1: now we are deluged with these videos from all over

881
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 1: our country of these horrifically brazen racist, uh interactions. And

882
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 1: I think, you know, for me, that's that's the thing.

883
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 1: It's like, obviously people of color, they're they're like, duh,

884
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: of course this is We've known this forever, you know.

885
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 1: But um I I think I have to admit that

886
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:20,359
Speaker 1: I am now realizing that our country is so much

887
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 1: more racist than I ever ever could even imagine. And

888
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 1: it really it's it makes me so angry. And I

889
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 1: you know, seeing this, seeing people screaming at a at

890
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 1: a grocery store, you know, and and Amy Cooper in

891
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:45,880
Speaker 1: the in you know, Manhattan, you know, calling the police.

892
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it's it's so awful. There's so

893
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 1: many people refusing to wear masks. I mean, it's it's

894
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 1: there's all telling somebody because you know, walking into a store,

895
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 1: going going back, getting a gun and killing the you know,

896
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: the guard who said I'm sorry, you can't come in

897
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 1: without a mask, and then killing him. It's really crazy.

898
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 1: And what's interesting to me is there are people who

899
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: haven't wanted to see it. And to your point, Debra,

900
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 1: I think what's interesting about that when you dig deeper,

901
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 1: is we were all raised to believe that the country

902
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:25,799
Speaker 1: was founded on a set of ideals, and that it

903
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 1: was screwed up along the way. Many of us were

904
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,879
Speaker 1: told overtly and covertly that was in the past. Yes,

905
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 1: And I think that's why a lot of people prior

906
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:37,480
Speaker 1: to really being able to see that it is not

907
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 1: in the past, being able to see it with their

908
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,919
Speaker 1: own eye, I think what that can be possible. It's

909
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 1: it's a it's a shaking core belief system, you know,

910
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 1: it's like it's an internal earthquake to fronted with this reality.

911
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:55,840
Speaker 1: But I think it is the important emotional earthquake of

912
00:55:55,880 --> 00:56:03,439
Speaker 1: our lifetime is a real under standing that until everybody's free,

913
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 1: nobody's free. And that isn't something a wise civil rights

914
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 1: leader said in the sixties. That's true today and and

915
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:18,799
Speaker 1: my my hope is that people will open themselves to

916
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 1: that inner kind of quaking on many leves, because even

917
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:27,280
Speaker 1: to your about Masks Mandana, no one has ever thrown

918
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 1: a fit over their civil rights being violated. When they

919
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 1: walk up to a restaurant by a beach or a

920
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 1: lake in the middle of the country and the restaurant

921
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 1: says no shirt, no shoes, no service. That's simply a

922
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 1: sanitary policy. And right now we are in the middle

923
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:49,719
Speaker 1: of a pandemic which requires enhanced sanitary measured and that's

924
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 1: what a mask is. And if you feel like you're

925
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 1: not at risk, okay, but I am. I'm an asthmatic.

926
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:57,760
Speaker 1: I have a compromised immune system because my lungs are

927
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 1: not functional at the level of an average person's. So

928
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 1: if you don't want to wear a mask for you,

929
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 1: please wear a mask for me. Please wear a mask

930
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 1: for my father. You know, I just don't understand this.

931
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 1: I had to pick up a prescription for Peter yesterday

932
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 1: and I walk up to the pharmacy and of course

933
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 1: I'm wearing a mask and gloves, and the woman looks

934
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 1: at me and she goes, oh, you must be a Democrat.

935
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 1: And I was like what, and she goes and she

936
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 1: said Republican. I didn't even say this. She said, Republicans

937
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 1: refused to wear a mask, and all Democrats wear it

938
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 1: won And I was like what, and she goes, I

939
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 1: have never seen people think that a health crisis is partisan.

940
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:37,000
Speaker 1: In my like, she was like, I've been working as

941
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 1: a pharmacist for thirty five years. I've never experienced anything

942
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 1: like this before. But this is the danger of our

943
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 1: current climate. This is the not having a president but

944
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 1: having a want to be dictator. This is the danger

945
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 1: of Fox News not having any regulatory um infractions placed

946
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 1: upon them, fornation of false news. This you know when

947
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 1: when someone took her crawl Wison is able to go

948
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 1: on the air and bemoan mask wearing. This is not excessible.

949
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 1: And our president told people to drink bleach like I

950
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 1: don't even there's nowhere you're gonna get. You can't get

951
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 1: past that. He said that coronavirus is just going to

952
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:21,919
Speaker 1: disappear this week, this week, and we know that when

953
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 1: twenty states are you know, are just surging increasing this week. Um,

954
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 1: the week we are recording Arkansas hundred increasing cases. Um.

955
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 1: More states than not are witnessing increasing to levels that

956
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 1: are um compromising e er capacities and and the median

957
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 1: age of people dying is forty eight. Yeah, people think

958
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:50,760
Speaker 1: it's only for the elderly. Yeah, I mean it's terrifying.

959
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 1: Did you guys see the report that came out Texas

960
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: reopened and a woman and her friends decided to go

961
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 1: to a bar. You know it's it's they're they're regulating

962
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 1: how many people can go in. Everything's gonna be safe.

963
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 1: They're safety protocols. And all fifteen of them, after one

964
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 1: night out tested positive for COVID and and and I

965
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 1: don't you know, pod got you. I mean, it is

966
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 1: a how important this is. There were fifty thousand people

967
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 1: in the streets marching in Los Angeles, you know, over

968
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:27,920
Speaker 1: the last two weeks for Black Lives Matter. I attended

969
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 1: a number of marches in a mask um. The photos obviously,

970
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 1: the aerial photos look incredible, but on the ground people

971
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 1: were pretty spaced. There were very few moments. You know,

972
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say a full six feet, but I'd say

973
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 1: like I had at least an arms radius around me

974
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 1: at all times, aside from if I was walking next

975
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 1: to one of them in my isolation, pod UM. I

976
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 1: went to multiple protests and because California's governors the president

977
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:58,480
Speaker 1: has not you know, we can all get free testing.

978
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 1: And I went and had COVID test and I'm negative.

979
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 1: And every single person at the protest I was at

980
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 1: was wearing a mask. And people who have gone into

981
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 1: the small bars or restaurants without math testing positive for

982
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: this virus that is deadly and it's those should be

983
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 1: proofs enough for people, and and I'm I'm saddened by

984
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 1: the fact that that we have quote leadership that wants

985
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 1: to politicize a pandemic so that it doesn't hurt them

986
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 1: in the election booth, rather than own. That they've appointed

987
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 1: someone who was fired from the U. S. Military for

988
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:47,440
Speaker 1: having such a terrible scientific record, and that they defunded

989
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:51,920
Speaker 1: the Pandemic Response Team, and that they didn't once the

990
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 1: Defense Production Act was put into place, they didn't actually

991
01:00:56,840 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 1: order any United States fact to do anything with it.

992
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 1: I mean, this is this is such a dereliction of

993
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 1: duty that it that it makes my head spin, and

994
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 1: that I would wage your from us. Is why when

995
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 1: people say, well, why do you care so much? Why

996
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:16,320
Speaker 1: do you why do you dedicate all your time to activism,

997
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 1: I'm like, because nobody's all upstairs. If it's not us,

998
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 1: then who you know. It's weird because when Devor and

999
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 1: I wanted to start the podcast, it literally started from

1000
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 1: that exact conversation. We sat down and we were talking

1001
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:34,440
Speaker 1: about how so many people in our lives come up

1002
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 1: to us all the time and are like, I don't

1003
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:38,520
Speaker 1: know how you do this. It must be so exhausting

1004
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 1: or I wish I could do this, but I would

1005
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 1: I don't even like how did you learn how to do?

1006
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 1: You know? And we realized that people were so afraid

1007
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 1: of doing something or learning about something or taking a

1008
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 1: position on something. And people were like, Wow, it's so

1009
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 1: amazing that you do this, and we were like, you

1010
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 1: can do it. I had It's not like I went

1011
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 1: to school to do this, Like we always joke like

1012
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 1: no one knighted us an activist, Like we literally saw

1013
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 1: something and we're like that's not okay, and then we

1014
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 1: learned about it, and then we spoke about it, and

1015
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 1: then we the next logical step was like, maybe I

1016
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 1: can try to do something about it or help with

1017
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 1: it and give one hour a week, one hour a month,

1018
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 1: ten hours a month to trying to make this thing

1019
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:18,640
Speaker 1: that I care about bet or because I find it

1020
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:21,400
Speaker 1: so hard to believe that people don't have issues that

1021
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 1: keep them up at night, like something that doesn't sit

1022
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:25,919
Speaker 1: with them, and it could be any issue, it could

1023
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 1: be anything, but I just believe fundamentally is like human beings,

1024
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 1: when we go to bed, there is something it's like

1025
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:36,640
Speaker 1: some nagging thing inside and I think we we were like, okay,

1026
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 1: how do we how do we dispel this idea that

1027
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:42,919
Speaker 1: activism is something that other people are supposed to do,

1028
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:46,440
Speaker 1: or oh they got it, or I don't have enough followers,

1029
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:49,240
Speaker 1: I don't have enough money, I don't have enough experience.

1030
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:53,760
Speaker 1: Because it I mean, the common thread in every single

1031
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:57,560
Speaker 1: person that we interviewed was they had no training. They

1032
01:02:57,600 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 1: didn't think they were starting a foundation or a movement,

1033
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:05,560
Speaker 1: like they really just decided to do more than nothing. Right,

1034
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 1: So where did the idea come from? How how does this,

1035
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 1: oh we can pass on some tools of how we've

1036
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:16,959
Speaker 1: stepped into these spaces of activists. How does that conversation

1037
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 1: turn into this phenomenal podcast? It really just it really

1038
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 1: came out of being nerdy fans of these superstars. It

1039
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:33,440
Speaker 1: really all right, I mean it did. I mean, you know,

1040
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 1: I have terrible insomnia, so I you know, I would

1041
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:41,880
Speaker 1: read and I would find articles and discover extraordinary people,

1042
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:44,080
Speaker 1: and I would send it to Mandana and be like,

1043
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 1: look at this person, and then she would find something

1044
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 1: and she would send it to me. And I think

1045
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 1: at first it was really too to inspire each other

1046
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:55,560
Speaker 1: to keep going. You know, it's been a very difficult

1047
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:59,200
Speaker 1: few years, and I think as our energies have sagged.

1048
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:01,600
Speaker 1: It was like, okay, look, look there are people out

1049
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 1: there who are doing great things and we can keep going.

1050
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:08,640
Speaker 1: And then after a while we realized, look at all

1051
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:13,320
Speaker 1: of these people and you know, and then we thought,

1052
01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:17,040
Speaker 1: you know, we're in the middle of a pandemic. There's

1053
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 1: you know, such uncertainty and fear, and we wanted to

1054
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 1: put something out that would inspire people and empower people,

1055
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:30,560
Speaker 1: and um, you know, we don't pretend to be experts

1056
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:34,120
Speaker 1: at anything, where we literally are just fans who just

1057
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:36,920
Speaker 1: trapped these people in a room so that we can

1058
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:41,160
Speaker 1: ask them all the questions that we had. Yeah, part

1059
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 1: of it was just like full fan girl, like I

1060
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:45,600
Speaker 1: want to be friends with this person and if we

1061
01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:48,040
Speaker 1: did a podcast, we can be their friend and get

1062
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 1: their phone number. And the other part was just you know,

1063
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:53,760
Speaker 1: we when we were talking about who. So the podcast

1064
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 1: is called The Dissenters and there's twenty of them, and

1065
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 1: the idea was like, okay, each one of them is

1066
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 1: so different from the other, and so one like is fashion,

1067
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:04,440
Speaker 1: ones entertainment, one is you know, sports, one is animal.

1068
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:06,920
Speaker 1: When you know they're all like environment, they're all working

1069
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:09,240
Speaker 1: on in different categories and they're all standing up for

1070
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 1: different issues. Um and and it's really what we kept

1071
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:18,480
Speaker 1: reading was this common thread of people who you know,

1072
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 1: it all came from heart. It all just came from

1073
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 1: I want to do something. Something is not okay, right,

1074
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 1: And that's obviously where descent comes from. And it's just

1075
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:30,520
Speaker 1: someone saying this isn't okay and there's a way that's better,

1076
01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 1: and I'm going to try to help build it. And

1077
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 1: I think what we learned through all these conversations is

1078
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 1: just that, right, is that everyone kind of figured it

1079
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:40,760
Speaker 1: out as they went along, Like nobody had all the

1080
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 1: information when they started. And if we all I mean,

1081
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:45,360
Speaker 1: like when I think back to when we started, I'm

1082
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 1: a voter, none of us knew what we were doing.

1083
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:49,120
Speaker 1: We had no idea how to start a foundation, We

1084
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 1: had no idea how to start a movement. We did

1085
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:53,440
Speaker 1: not know I didn't know any voting laws in America,

1086
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 1: like you know what I mean, Like, we didn't know.

1087
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:57,720
Speaker 1: We just knew that this was something that we wanted

1088
01:05:57,760 --> 01:05:59,640
Speaker 1: to do. We knew this was a moment for us

1089
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 1: to quit ate something. You know, we all just kind

1090
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 1: of sat in that room and we're like, there is

1091
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:06,840
Speaker 1: there's a better way, and we want to build it,

1092
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:09,840
Speaker 1: and we're committed to learning through the process and not

1093
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 1: waiting until we feel like we have every piece of

1094
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:17,120
Speaker 1: information to start and to send to your point, it

1095
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:22,880
Speaker 1: feels to me, and does it feel to you immensely patriotic. Yes, well,

1096
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:25,160
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously Ruth Bader Ginsburg comes to mind, and

1097
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 1: she's like the coolest person that has ever lived. But

1098
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 1: it also is is this idea of of just saying,

1099
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:39,520
Speaker 1: of challenging the status quo, right, it's just saying, whatever

1100
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 1: this is, it's not okay. And that is really powerful.

1101
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 1: And when we looked at everyone, obviously you are a dissenter,

1102
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:48,960
Speaker 1: and it was like, that's what these people all did, right,

1103
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:51,560
Speaker 1: They all kind of stood up to some form of

1104
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 1: injustice which is so powerful, and they the other thing

1105
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:59,919
Speaker 1: that that ties them all together is that they fail

1106
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:05,080
Speaker 1: old at some point in the process or they you know,

1107
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:12,080
Speaker 1: hit a formidable obstacle and decided to keep going. That

1108
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:14,080
Speaker 1: was that was the thing, and I think that's the

1109
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:16,960
Speaker 1: thing that that interested me the most is to be

1110
01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 1: like okay, um, okay, Adam Schiff, you you lost your

1111
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 1: election twice two times in a row. You know, I mean,

1112
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 1: what would what would make you go and do it again,

1113
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:41,000
Speaker 1: you know, and and and sometimes that's really the only difference. Yeah,

1114
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:45,520
Speaker 1: the desire to persevere, the belief that you know, as

1115
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:49,120
Speaker 1: it's famously said, the the ark of justice is long,

1116
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 1: but you know, or they or the moral ark of

1117
01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:53,960
Speaker 1: the universe is long, but events towards justice, like if

1118
01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:57,480
Speaker 1: you just hold onto your principles, if you move, you know,

1119
01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:02,000
Speaker 1: towards toward more love, fairness and equality and fighting for

1120
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 1: those things. You know, you gotta stay in the game

1121
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:08,640
Speaker 1: to win it. So that that I find so inspiring.

1122
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:12,040
Speaker 1: Who are some of the people that, um, everyone listening

1123
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:14,280
Speaker 1: to us chat about all these things today we'll be

1124
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:25,080
Speaker 1: able to hear on the podcast. Oh well you obviously, yeah, yeah, Bush, Yes,

1125
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 1: it's a Glenn and Doyle, Um, Jane Fonda, Shannon Watts Um,

1126
01:08:32,280 --> 01:08:35,600
Speaker 1: Congressman Adam Scheff Um. Oh my god. We had this

1127
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:38,320
Speaker 1: woman named Amanda Win you have to have on and

1128
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:42,040
Speaker 1: she is nominated for Nobel Peace Prize and she's twenty

1129
01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 1: nine and she's written more laws than literally anyone ever

1130
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:47,000
Speaker 1: and she wants to go to space and everything she

1131
01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:50,360
Speaker 1: does isn'tfortant. I'm like, every she's out of her mouth

1132
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:58,439
Speaker 1: is just brilliant. She's unbelievable. Schuler, Oh yeah, he's so great.

1133
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:01,080
Speaker 1: I mean there's so many people that are like Christian

1134
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:05,040
Speaker 1: Siriano and talking about his his work and inclusivity, and

1135
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:10,400
Speaker 1: Jamila who talks about like her her fight against weight loss,

1136
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:14,520
Speaker 1: you know, and all of the people. It's just um

1137
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:18,000
Speaker 1: she I mean, all these stories have just been so

1138
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:20,920
Speaker 1: incredibly I mean we talked to pretty Berrara, who is

1139
01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:24,960
Speaker 1: the love of my life, um, and I really have

1140
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:28,200
Speaker 1: a question on him. And I was really like awkwardly

1141
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:32,719
Speaker 1: fan girling. Um. It was not I'm like not cool

1142
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:35,800
Speaker 1: in these situations. So I was just like super awkward.

1143
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:39,760
Speaker 1: She was vibrating, she was literally vibrating. I don't know

1144
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 1: how to be that either, honestly, Like, give me a break,

1145
01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:47,800
Speaker 1: it's so hard. Um. Yeah, nothing has taught me how

1146
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:49,680
Speaker 1: to be cool in situations like this. I'm just like

1147
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:52,839
Speaker 1: some geeky, Like my mouth is wide open, I'm smiling

1148
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 1: so hard, and I'm like, so does this mean we're

1149
01:09:55,479 --> 01:09:58,680
Speaker 1: like literally with While we're talking to Adam Schiff, we

1150
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:01,439
Speaker 1: looked at him were like, so does this mean we're friends?

1151
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:07,559
Speaker 1: And I'll tell people that if you do. And I

1152
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:11,720
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, that means we're friends. Oh my god,

1153
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:15,639
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed. We don't even need to air this. Who cares?

1154
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:21,719
Speaker 1: We're friends with Adam Shift? Now that's right? Um, yeah

1155
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:24,559
Speaker 1: it was. It's been really, really, really fun. We were

1156
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:27,720
Speaker 1: editing your episode this week and I texted you. I

1157
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:33,240
Speaker 1: was like, God, you're so smart. It's crazy. You are

1158
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:39,439
Speaker 1: very kind. Just just a bunch of ladies being nerdy

1159
01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:42,360
Speaker 1: over here. You know, we love nerds. I know I

1160
01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:45,200
Speaker 1: love a nerd. I love love, love and nerd. So

1161
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:48,559
Speaker 1: when you think about all of those incredible conversations you've

1162
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:51,200
Speaker 1: got to have and endeavor to your point. People who

1163
01:10:51,360 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 1: lead despite uh setbacks, um, who who tend to see

1164
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:04,200
Speaker 1: their capacity for empathy grow as they do. So. Is

1165
01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:08,160
Speaker 1: there advice that you would give to the folks at

1166
01:11:08,200 --> 01:11:11,040
Speaker 1: home who are listening to us today and maybe perhaps

1167
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:17,440
Speaker 1: maybe particularly our young listeners who do want to get started,

1168
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:22,760
Speaker 1: um with civic engagement, with with showing up for their communities,

1169
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:24,719
Speaker 1: but maybe they don't know where to take the first step.

1170
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:29,000
Speaker 1: I think the first step is just turning inward and

1171
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:33,120
Speaker 1: and looking inside your heart and asking the question, what

1172
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:38,200
Speaker 1: do I care about? What what do I see that

1173
01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:44,439
Speaker 1: I believe deeply has to change. I think that's step

1174
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:48,800
Speaker 1: one because if you if you know, there's no room

1175
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:52,679
Speaker 1: for ego in this kind of work. You really are

1176
01:11:52,760 --> 01:12:01,000
Speaker 1: driven and um energized by the the passion that you

1177
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:04,559
Speaker 1: have for the injustice that you are working to try

1178
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:08,439
Speaker 1: and fix. So I think it's just identifying that first,

1179
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:12,280
Speaker 1: and then from there you can you can do research.

1180
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:16,799
Speaker 1: You can read books, or you can read newspaper articles,

1181
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:20,960
Speaker 1: and you can you can find leaders in that lane,

1182
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:28,040
Speaker 1: and you know, just just educate yourself and and very

1183
01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:32,879
Speaker 1: slowly you will see that opportunities will arise where where

1184
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:36,559
Speaker 1: you can, you know, put your email in to some

1185
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:40,320
Speaker 1: you know, some group and say, I just I just

1186
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:43,720
Speaker 1: want to get emails every week telling me what's going on.

1187
01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:47,080
Speaker 1: I think that's such such good advice. Severn, thank you.

1188
01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:50,240
Speaker 1: One of my favorite quotes was in our first conversation

1189
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:51,960
Speaker 1: with Glenn and Doyle, and she said, you know, the

1190
01:12:52,280 --> 01:12:53,960
Speaker 1: number one thing everyone always asks me is how do

1191
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:55,840
Speaker 1: I find my purpose? And how do I find my people?

1192
01:12:56,160 --> 01:12:58,360
Speaker 1: And if you sit with what actually pisces you off,

1193
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:01,160
Speaker 1: you find your purpose. And when you chase your purpose,

1194
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:04,200
Speaker 1: it's like a big red arrow to your people and

1195
01:13:04,240 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 1: that was nothing in my life has been more true.

1196
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:09,720
Speaker 1: And I think that we've we've we learned that from

1197
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:13,360
Speaker 1: every single person we spoke with UM, And so I

1198
01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:15,200
Speaker 1: mean to divers point, I think it really is just

1199
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:18,599
Speaker 1: looking in word and figuring out, like what what you

1200
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:21,880
Speaker 1: feel like you need to do more about UM And

1201
01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:24,040
Speaker 1: then selfishly, I would just say that everyone has to

1202
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:29,639
Speaker 1: vote yes, yes, and I will reiterate, and I'm sure

1203
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:31,960
Speaker 1: there are some people who are like, you've told us

1204
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:34,000
Speaker 1: this one million times, But for those of you who

1205
01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:37,639
Speaker 1: haven't heard it, please text you're gonna want to write

1206
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:40,479
Speaker 1: this down. I'm giving you a second to like, open

1207
01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:43,880
Speaker 1: your notes up, get a pen, whatever you need. Okay,

1208
01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:49,240
Speaker 1: good Text the word voter two to six seven nine seven.

1209
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:53,479
Speaker 1: We built this text line us the ladies you're hearing

1210
01:13:53,479 --> 01:13:55,040
Speaker 1: from right now. It's not going to sign you up

1211
01:13:55,040 --> 01:13:57,240
Speaker 1: for something weird. But what it does is it will

1212
01:13:57,320 --> 01:14:01,080
Speaker 1: check your registration status, will get you registered if you

1213
01:14:01,160 --> 01:14:05,080
Speaker 1: are hooray harah first time voter. It will give you

1214
01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:08,000
Speaker 1: updates on your local election that you will need to have.

1215
01:14:08,240 --> 01:14:12,360
Speaker 1: It's a very important little text sign so again, text

1216
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:19,519
Speaker 1: voter to six seven nine seven, amazing. Yeah, um loves.

1217
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:22,000
Speaker 1: I have one final question for you, which is my

1218
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:26,280
Speaker 1: favorite thing to ask everyone who comes up. Um. As

1219
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:29,200
Speaker 1: you know, the show is called work in progress, and

1220
01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:32,559
Speaker 1: I'm curious when you hear the phrase, what comes to

1221
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:36,880
Speaker 1: mind as a work in progress in your life right now? Everything?

1222
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:45,559
Speaker 1: M I. You know, I I consider myself a perpetual student. Um.

1223
01:14:45,560 --> 01:14:48,840
Speaker 1: You know, I'm fifty two and I'm I feel like

1224
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:55,040
Speaker 1: I'm just just learning about some really really important things

1225
01:14:55,080 --> 01:14:58,439
Speaker 1: that are happening in our country and learning about our history.

1226
01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:05,719
Speaker 1: And UM, I think I love that phrase, UM, because

1227
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:08,840
Speaker 1: I think that it can be a goal. It can

1228
01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:11,920
Speaker 1: be a goal to be a work in progress, to

1229
01:15:12,439 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 1: to recognize that you don't know and to recognize that

1230
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:22,160
Speaker 1: there there is always more to learn and and that

1231
01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:27,360
Speaker 1: it will ultimately make you grow as a human. I

1232
01:15:27,439 --> 01:15:29,920
Speaker 1: was actually, weirdly going to say something very similar and

1233
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:32,120
Speaker 1: and somehow tie it back to my childhood, which is

1234
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:35,000
Speaker 1: I always grew up with this idea that I had

1235
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:37,280
Speaker 1: to be really perfect and everything in my life was

1236
01:15:37,320 --> 01:15:39,840
Speaker 1: so calculated and I had to like do this thing

1237
01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:41,519
Speaker 1: to get this great, to get this on the resume,

1238
01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:44,200
Speaker 1: to get this internship, to get this job, etcetera. Etcetera, etcetera.

1239
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:46,960
Speaker 1: And I felt like my entire life was like building

1240
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:51,280
Speaker 1: this incredible resume um. And I've had all these really

1241
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 1: interesting and weird shifts in my career as I've tried

1242
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:57,360
Speaker 1: to like work up this ladder. And for the last

1243
01:15:57,400 --> 01:16:00,320
Speaker 1: two years, I've kind of like paused in real lies

1244
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:02,840
Speaker 1: that so much of that was bullshit. And and I'm

1245
01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:05,280
Speaker 1: finally doing the things that I really care about that

1246
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:09,880
Speaker 1: feel really important, and and I've finally come into terms

1247
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:13,679
Speaker 1: with like there is no like, there's no climbing, there's

1248
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:17,080
Speaker 1: no ladder. Like I am like a perpetual work in progress,

1249
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:21,200
Speaker 1: and and who I am is going to reflect what

1250
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:23,040
Speaker 1: is happening in my life and what is happening in

1251
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:24,800
Speaker 1: my heart at that point in my life, and it

1252
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:26,920
Speaker 1: will evolve, Like just because I cared about something ten

1253
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:29,120
Speaker 1: years ago doesn't mean I'm gonna care about it today.

1254
01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:31,200
Speaker 1: I mean, right now, the idea that I would work

1255
01:16:31,200 --> 01:16:34,000
Speaker 1: in fashion is shocking, you know, Like I couldn't even

1256
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:37,240
Speaker 1: imagine doing that today, And ten years ago that was

1257
01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:38,920
Speaker 1: the most important thing to me in my life and

1258
01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:40,760
Speaker 1: it was important to me. Then it just doesn't mean

1259
01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:42,960
Speaker 1: that it has to be important to me now and

1260
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:47,200
Speaker 1: and I've accepted it, and it's been so amazing to

1261
01:16:47,240 --> 01:16:50,000
Speaker 1: be able to just kind of own that. I love that,

1262
01:16:50,120 --> 01:16:54,080
Speaker 1: and I love the notion that it's okay throughout your

1263
01:16:54,120 --> 01:16:59,080
Speaker 1: life to continue evolving and learning and pursuing new passions.

1264
01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:02,400
Speaker 1: You you don't need to put yourself in any kind

1265
01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:06,479
Speaker 1: of box. Well, I think that I think that it's it.

1266
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:09,559
Speaker 1: You know, we we look around and we see so

1267
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:15,519
Speaker 1: much divisiveness and you know, so much racism, and I

1268
01:17:16,360 --> 01:17:20,760
Speaker 1: think that we we have to have hope that all

1269
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:26,040
Speaker 1: of us are capable of of becoming a better version

1270
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:32,080
Speaker 1: of ourselves, and by by doing that, we become a better, stronger,

1271
01:17:32,160 --> 01:17:39,760
Speaker 1: more compassionate country. Here here, thank you. Now, become the

1272
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:43,880
Speaker 1: president and save and we will work on your campaign.

1273
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:50,479
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. If we're electing people from TV, why

1274
01:17:50,479 --> 01:17:55,360
Speaker 1: not like we could do this, guys, we could do this.

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Speaker 1: You could do this in a heartbeat. In a heartbeat,

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Speaker 1: so you just tell us when you know, I'd love

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Speaker 1: to build a campaign. So we will be there, all right,

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Speaker 1: we'll discuss, Okay. I love you both so much. Thank you,

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having then. This show is executive produced

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Speaker 1: by me, Sophia Bush and sim Sarna. Our supervising producer

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Speaker 1: is Alison Bresnick, Our associate producer is Kate Linley. Our

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Speaker 1: editor is Josh Wendish, and our music was written by

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Speaker 1: Jack Garrett and produced by Mark Foster. This show is

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Speaker 1: brought to you by Krillion Anatomy