Speaker 1: Hi, Catherine. Hi Chelsea, Hi.
Speaker 2: Where are you at right now?
Speaker 1: You're all over well, I've it's been a rough run
Speaker 1: of things.
Speaker 3: I am dying.
Speaker 4: I'm sick.
Speaker 3: I just came from Sun Valley where I shot my
Speaker 3: birthday video. I seem to have picked up a cold
Speaker 3: on top of the infection that I have in my shoulders.
Speaker 1: So I believe I'm dying.
Speaker 3: But I have been dying now for like three or
Speaker 3: four years, and I feel like fighting it really hard.
Speaker 3: So we went to Sun Valley meet a bunch of
Speaker 3: my girlfriends to shoot my birthday video.
Speaker 1: Was quite a production. There was a lot of moving parts.
Speaker 3: I had my friends Reggie and Lola christ in Sun
Speaker 3: Valley set up the whole thing and organize it. And
Speaker 3: it involved a lot of things, a lot of mountains,
Speaker 3: a lot of bikinis, a lot of skiing, and the
Speaker 3: sun came out just in time.
Speaker 2: Oh beautiful. That's all you can hope for on your birthday.
Speaker 1: Well, my birthday's coming up. Tuesday is my birthday. Everyone,
Speaker 1: February twenty fifth, I turned fifty years old. I'm midlife joy.
Speaker 1: That's what we're calling it. Chelsea Joy Handler is experienced
Speaker 1: midlife joy. My new book.
Speaker 3: I'll have what she's having my seventh book. My seventh
Speaker 3: book is coming out on February twenty fifth.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm pretty pumped.
Speaker 3: About turning fifty. I'm not going to pretend that I'm
Speaker 3: upset about it, because I'm not.
Speaker 2: I'm so happy for you. This is going to be
Speaker 2: the decade of your life. I foresee it. I see it.
Speaker 1: Thank you, I thank you. I appreciate that. But even
Speaker 1: though I am dying, I feel amazing.
Speaker 2: I'm so pleased.
Speaker 3: I'm fighting this infection in my arm from my shoulder thing,
Speaker 3: and that's going away.
Speaker 1: Hopefully.
Speaker 3: I get my pick line out February twenty fourth, the
Speaker 3: day before my birthday.
Speaker 1: Great time me. I've had one drink in four weeks.
Speaker 3: I had a beer the other night when we got
Speaker 3: to sun Jali, just to celebrating attitude. Then I announced
Speaker 3: my European tour, which is going to take place May
Speaker 3: in June. I'm going to like thirteen sixteen cities in Europe,
Speaker 3: from like Oslo, Recuvic to Oslo and Portugal, Lisbon, all
Speaker 3: these places.
Speaker 1: So that's pretty excited.
Speaker 3: And yes, I know Lisbon is the capital of Portugal
Speaker 3: and Portugal isn't part of Lisbon, but I said it
Speaker 3: in the wrong order, so that's really exciting. And my
Speaker 3: Netflix special, which we just showed a clip of yesterday,
Speaker 3: is coming out March twenty fifth, and I've just parted
Speaker 3: rays with Dog. Doug was met in Sun Valley by
Speaker 3: my bell, who flew home with him while I flew
Speaker 3: back to Whistler because I'm having a birthday party, a
Speaker 3: pre birthday party here before I leave for New York
Speaker 3: to promote my book.
Speaker 2: It's probably not suitable for children like Dog.
Speaker 1: No, my book is probably not suitable for our children,
Speaker 1: or adults for that matter.
Speaker 3: Our guest today stars in Winning Time, Missus America, and
Speaker 3: most recently Monsters. She played Leslie Abramson in the Lyle
Speaker 3: and Eric Menenda story. Please welcome actress, Ari Grainer.
Speaker 1: Hi, juju Hi, it's a jew festival. How are you?
Speaker 4: It's a Jew bez. I'm great.
Speaker 1: How are you wecome to the podcast? Ari Grainer.
Speaker 4: I'm so happy to be on here and see you.
Speaker 4: I met a good jollyon years ago.
Speaker 1: Where did we meet? Refresh my memory? Please?
Speaker 4: It was probably seventeen to eighteen years at Jenny and
Speaker 4: Jason Oh.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, two hot messes, the hot two of
Speaker 3: the hottest messes.
Speaker 1: And actually that's not fair to Jason.
Speaker 3: Jenny's really the hot mess of the two, even though
Speaker 3: Jason is also a high missed them.
Speaker 1: Do you guys not see each other anymore?
Speaker 5: Are you?
Speaker 4: Where are you? You're in New York, right, I'm in
Speaker 4: New York. I'm in upstate New York.
Speaker 1: Now, Oh yes, you just bought your first big girl house.
Speaker 4: I got a big girl house like six months before
Speaker 4: the pandemic. I bought like a house built in eighteen
Speaker 4: oh three with sixty two acres and a barn built
Speaker 4: in seventeen ninety six. And it's it's crazy. It's been
Speaker 4: like a hole. It's almost amazing.
Speaker 1: Just in time to go back to that, just to
Speaker 1: go back to that century.
Speaker 4: That's right, everyone needs to step back into eighteen oh three.
Speaker 1: Well, congratulations on that.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Isn't it nice to be a female homeowner?
Speaker 4: It truly, truly is. I mean, it was a wild
Speaker 4: thing doing it right before the pandemic. And I was
Speaker 4: dating somebody at the time, but he hadn't seen the place,
Speaker 4: and then we broke up, and then it was pandemic
Speaker 4: and me and my dog were just like, great, now
Speaker 4: we'll just face our existential crisis out on the land
Speaker 4: and in this new house. And it was a pretty wild.
Speaker 3: I think it's really powerful when you are a single
Speaker 3: woman and are able to buy property.
Speaker 1: It shouldn't really be.
Speaker 3: As I was reading her notes, it is something that
Speaker 3: you were talking about, because I thought it was a
Speaker 3: great point about how long ago it was. It wasn't
Speaker 3: that long ago where we had to get man's permission
Speaker 3: to even have our name on a deed or to
Speaker 3: cot they had to coast side a card to co
Speaker 3: vouch for us to get I mean.
Speaker 4: What like the seventies, Like it was not that long ago.
Speaker 1: What a nightmare? That sounds like.
Speaker 3: I really hope we're not headed back in that direction,
Speaker 3: even though all fingers are pointing in that direction.
Speaker 4: I know it's a scary time for sure, but yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean it's felt like the power of that, like
Speaker 4: it was a huge internal sense of power of not
Speaker 4: only buying the place, but then being here alone and
Speaker 4: having a space where it's like, you know, we have
Speaker 4: all these like images of like the Marlborough Man or
Speaker 4: like men alone in the woods and doing their thing,
Speaker 4: but we don't only have that for women. And then
Speaker 4: when I was here and I was out on the
Speaker 4: land and doing my thing and being in solitude and
Speaker 4: being like, this is my place. This is a powerful I.
Speaker 1: Like out on the land.
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you have like stuff like animals out on
Speaker 2: the property.
Speaker 4: No. I mean there's like the wild animals, you know,
Speaker 4: so there's the occasional bear sighting. There's like some random
Speaker 4: weasel kind of creatures and muskrats by the pond, and
Speaker 4: deer and fox and you know, it's like all of that.
Speaker 4: But I don't have chickens yet.
Speaker 3: Eventually, have you ever seen any of those black black
Speaker 3: king snakes up there in upstate New York?
Speaker 4: Not a black king snake, I don't think, But there
Speaker 4: are snakes. We called the big one Matild. We said
Speaker 4: bulgeoue metild. I don't know why she got named Matild.
Speaker 4: But there are these like enormous garden stakes. And one
Speaker 4: got in the house. But I wasn't home and my
Speaker 4: parents were here. My mom sent me this picture of
Speaker 4: like a snake like this big that had I guess,
Speaker 4: crawled through like the stone walls and was in the
Speaker 4: living room and she had to take it out. And
Speaker 4: I was very glad I wasn't home well.
Speaker 3: So I do used to date this guy who had
Speaker 3: a house in upstate New York and he had this
Speaker 3: and there was this guy that lived in one of
Speaker 3: the properties around him, and he knew I have I
Speaker 3: have like a phobia of snakes, and they have all
Speaker 3: those black, thick king snakes up in upstate New York.
Speaker 3: And he told us he once opened up his cellar
Speaker 3: turned on lights, and I mean it was pitch black
Speaker 3: and all you saw were all these little sets of
Speaker 3: white eyes, and that there were dot and it dozens,
Speaker 3: dozens and king snakes resting on top of each other.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 1: I was like, that is like a scene for my
Speaker 1: worst nightmare movie.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, Luckily, like the snakes are not the issue
Speaker 4: for me. It's rodentia is the problem. And so when
Speaker 4: I first moved here and and there was the first
Speaker 4: couple of mouse sightings, I was like, I just have
Speaker 4: to move. I'll have to sell it. I'm I'm out run,
Speaker 4: I'm leaving a house I can never go inside ever again,
Speaker 4: So burn it down.
Speaker 1: What is rodentia exactly? Isn't that an an of rodentne rat.
Speaker 4: It's like if I see like a mouse, I completely
Speaker 4: lose my shit, and I've gotten better, like the big
Speaker 4: like I could be alone for like months at a
Speaker 4: time and figure out how to make that be okay.
Speaker 4: But if there was a mouse or a dead mouse
Speaker 4: in the house, I was like, this is something I
Speaker 4: can't deal with. This is this is like the true
Speaker 4: conference of my abilities. But snakes, like, I'm okay, that's funny.
Speaker 3: I think people either have it about it's usually snakes
Speaker 3: or spiders, and then it's usual spiders, Like I can
Speaker 3: deal if I see a mouse, I'm not excited, but
Speaker 3: I'm not going to lose it.
Speaker 1: Like if I saw a snake.
Speaker 3: Even in the wilderness, I have an issue with them
Speaker 3: being there.
Speaker 6: I'm okay with snakes, yeah, Spiders, Yeah that holds up.
Speaker 4: Fighters okay too. It's like it's something about the way
Speaker 4: the mouse moves. And I think I also have like
Speaker 4: a traumatic experience with a hamster in my youth and
Speaker 4: I never quite got over.
Speaker 3: It didn't involve Richard Gears, but you know that's why
Speaker 3: he had to move to Spain. He's actually he's on
Speaker 3: the right track. He got the fuck out of here.
Speaker 3: I was like, wait, that story, it's so funny. When
Speaker 3: you hear rumors like that for so many years and
Speaker 3: so many years that you know.
Speaker 1: That rumor that career struck a Gerbil off his ass.
Speaker 3: But it's like, how can you be a person that
Speaker 3: goes around and those rumors are like, there's no recourse.
Speaker 3: You just have to sit there and take it. You
Speaker 3: just have to sit there because it's so ludical. Is
Speaker 3: it could be completely made up or it could be
Speaker 3: completely true. We'll never know, and maybe he doesn't.
Speaker 4: Remember, maybe maybe he was in a black ari.
Speaker 3: I was so first, I'm so impressed with your acting.
Speaker 3: I think you're such a gifted and talented actress, as
Speaker 3: do many others obviously, and I saw you in it
Speaker 3: was at missus America, right, you were amazing in that.
Speaker 3: And then most recently you were in Monsters, The Menandez
Speaker 3: Brother's Story playing Leslie Stall their attorney, which sorry, sorry, sorry.
Speaker 4: Leslie Abra, but Leslie Stall is great too. I'd love
Speaker 4: to play her an attorney too. I think she was
Speaker 4: on sixty minutes perfect Leslie Stall.
Speaker 1: Leslie tight curls.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's the same.
Speaker 3: I am so eager to hear about your thoughts about
Speaker 3: the Menendaz Brothers and like what you think, I mean, are.
Speaker 2: They evolving right now?
Speaker 1: Well now, because Kim.
Speaker 3: Kardashian is trying to get them out of jail, and
Speaker 3: I think she's success She's succeeding.
Speaker 4: Well she was, I mean, you know now, look, I
Speaker 4: mean I've been I was like embroiled for a year
Speaker 4: and playing their defensive journeys. So obviously I was coming
Speaker 4: at it from, you know, a very specific point of view.
Speaker 4: I strongly believe it's time for them to be out
Speaker 4: of jail. And Kim and all the gen zers who
Speaker 4: found the Menendez trial on YouTube when it came in
Speaker 4: twenty twenty one and then sort of started this movement
Speaker 4: like on TikTok with them, and then the DA who
Speaker 4: just who didn't get reelected, was like, get them out
Speaker 4: of there. And now I just hope they don't get
Speaker 4: stuck in another round of political maneuvering, because it's time
Speaker 4: and it feels like the sentiment is like it's time
Speaker 4: to look at this. And then this new DA keeps
Speaker 4: pushing their trial date and I think it just got
Speaker 4: moved again until March. It was supposed to be January thirtieth,
Speaker 4: but they've been in for thirty five years. You know,
Speaker 4: they both got college degrees, they have been helping hospice
Speaker 4: with older inmates, they started a green space program. They've
Speaker 4: never had another incident, and you know, I think just
Speaker 4: if that trial happened now, I think it would be
Speaker 4: looked at in a different kind of way than it
Speaker 4: was by them.
Speaker 1: So you're like on their side, right you?
Speaker 4: Is that? What?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I am?
Speaker 3: You believe you believe because there's there's a lot of
Speaker 3: back and forth about whether or not they were abused
Speaker 3: to the degree that they claimed they were, and whether
Speaker 3: or not this punishment is justified or if it's just
Speaker 3: a sentencing. And because I came away from watching that,
Speaker 3: I mean, I think I watched the real documentary and
Speaker 3: then I watched your series, and I came away just
Speaker 3: more confused than ever. I wasn't convinced that they were
Speaker 3: as abused as they said they were. And then I
Speaker 3: was like, God, if this, if these were two girls,
Speaker 3: I wouldn't hesitate to believe them, you know, And I
Speaker 3: had to think about why I didn't believe them, because
Speaker 3: I was like, well, I just but and then I've
Speaker 3: never been you know, I've never had that kind of
Speaker 3: manipulation in my life where somebody was manipulating, Like if
Speaker 3: if somebody did treat you that way and you were
Speaker 3: you did turn into a grown man who could defend
Speaker 3: yourself that you wouldn't because you're so brainwashed and you're
Speaker 3: so there's such a power dynamic there. So talk to
Speaker 3: me a little bit about what you learned about that,
Speaker 3: because I'm so curious as from an insider's perspective.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that was kind of at the crux
Speaker 4: of the first trial, which was that basically the original
Speaker 4: trial was a hung dury and it came down basically
Speaker 4: along gender lines because the men didn't believe that boys
Speaker 4: could be sexually abused, and culturally people didn't believe that,
Speaker 4: which is absurd, you know. And I think that the
Speaker 4: psychological impact, which is you know what leslie over the
Speaker 4: course of that trial and the six years that she
Speaker 4: was working with them, was trying to get people to
Speaker 4: understand the psychology of abuse and of trauma, and and
Speaker 4: you know, people being like, well, why didn't they just leave?
Speaker 4: And it's like when you've been not only like horrifically
Speaker 4: sexual abused, but also essentially brainwashed, the culture of control
Speaker 4: within that house or in an abusive relationship you don't
Speaker 4: realize you you can or how, or when people are
Speaker 4: constantly threatening your life, you know. And even now, we
Speaker 4: still don't really have like a correct recourse for victims
Speaker 4: of abuse, who have tried to get away, who have
Speaker 4: tried to divorce, who have tried to have restraining orders.
Speaker 4: I'm not I'm not in any way condoning killing people
Speaker 4: by anyway, but that's not what I'm here to do.
Speaker 3: A spouse's retaliation in the form of murder.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, It's not something I'm signing up for, but
Speaker 4: it is a part of the justice system that I
Speaker 4: think is four women, four children of when you were
Speaker 4: in a position in your life is on the line.
Speaker 4: Does that mean that you should then be in prison
Speaker 4: for the rest of your life because it was the
Speaker 4: only way that you could survive. To me, I would
Speaker 4: say not, but you know that's just me.
Speaker 3: So what about the fact that was it Lyle that
Speaker 3: was on the who was talking to his girlfriend after
Speaker 3: the fact and admitted to lying about the sexual abuse.
Speaker 1: What about that component of information.
Speaker 4: Well, here's what I feel about that, which is like, also,
Speaker 4: they did so much research on the show, So stuff
Speaker 4: that was in there was correct. I never read the
Speaker 4: book that she wrote. I was sort of like, I'm
Speaker 4: staying on my defense track. But psychologically, there's something that
Speaker 4: I can understand about that of like when you have
Speaker 4: revealed your deepest, most unspeakable secret. I mean, first of all,
Speaker 4: there is nothing more unspeakable than sexual abuse, especially when
Speaker 4: you've come from a family where you are told your
Speaker 4: entire life what you must never do is speak of something,
Speaker 4: and then to share that, to reveal that, I think
Speaker 4: there's like an automatic reaction to then want to protect
Speaker 4: and defend and close up. I mean I even feel
Speaker 4: that way, and I'm like therapized up the wazoo. But
Speaker 4: when I have like a very vulnerable moment, there still
Speaker 4: is the reaction afterwards to want to try to like
Speaker 4: take it back or make a joke or do what
Speaker 4: you know, there's a kind of a natural response to that.
Speaker 4: And so in a way I understand where here's this
Speaker 4: young man who's just revealed the most painful things and
Speaker 4: the bravado of being like, I didn't you know, it
Speaker 4: wasn't real. I don't remember what was said or what
Speaker 4: was actually said, but I understand the emotional response to
Speaker 4: want to close up, take it back, defend after revealing
Speaker 4: something so unbelievably painful.
Speaker 1: Heart Yeah, because right after.
Speaker 3: The murders day, I think the biggest thing that was,
Speaker 3: you know, they went on the shopping sprees, they spent
Speaker 3: all this money.
Speaker 1: They were acting just.
Speaker 4: So they were dumb kids. I mean, right, they were
Speaker 4: also dumb kids. But I also feel like I did
Speaker 4: so much research about Leslie and I just think she's incredible,
Speaker 4: and I guess for me, it's like to believe that
Speaker 4: also they were not abused, means essentially that you think
Speaker 4: she made that story up. And from all of my
Speaker 4: research about her, like people had opinions about her, she
Speaker 4: was a real firecracker and not everybody liked her, but
Speaker 4: nobody ever called in to question her integrity ever with
Speaker 4: any of her clients throughout her career about having to
Speaker 4: make up stories of their life, like she's not a snake.
Speaker 4: She's so brilliant. It's like she's too smart to have
Speaker 4: to make up something like that on their behalf. In
Speaker 4: my personal belief and defense of her.
Speaker 1: And did you have a lot of interaction with her?
Speaker 4: With Leslie now, sadly I've not talked to her.
Speaker 3: What are some other like surprising things that you learned
Speaker 3: about her and doing the research.
Speaker 4: Well, one thing that I think is really fun is
Speaker 4: that Joan Didion and John Gregory Dunn, who's Dominic Dunn's brother,
Speaker 4: were like her best friends. And so I feel like
Speaker 4: when you find out that Joan Didion is her best friend,
Speaker 4: you're like, well, she's definitely no snooze, you know, Like
Speaker 4: that's it that like tells you about a person you know,
Speaker 4: and she you know, she went to law school in
Speaker 4: the late sixties as a single mother and drove a
Speaker 4: yellow Corvette, and she came from Queen's and her grandmother
Speaker 4: was a labor organizer and organizing and fighting against the man,
Speaker 4: and they were like a family that fought and you know.
Speaker 4: And then her there was like a her father basically
Speaker 4: like completely her parents were divorced, but then her father
Speaker 4: completely disappeared from her life. They thought that he had
Speaker 4: moved to Florida to have another family, and it turned
Speaker 4: out that he was living like a couple blocks away,
Speaker 4: and she didn't speak to him for thirty four years.
Speaker 4: Oh and then during the trial, during the first trial,
Speaker 4: she reconnected with her father, adopted a baby, and her
Speaker 4: mother died like all during the first trial, which is
Speaker 4: crazy to think about.
Speaker 3: Wow, it's amazing to think about people's lives, certain people's lives,
Speaker 3: like you know, the backstory going to law school in
Speaker 3: the sixties as a woman, just that alone, right, I
Speaker 3: wonder what that was like in a yellow Corvette. I
Speaker 3: wonder what kind of car Leslie Stall was driving at
Speaker 3: that time.
Speaker 4: I know, let's get Leslie Stall on the phone.
Speaker 2: Early cars.
Speaker 3: I reel like and when you go in, like when
Speaker 3: you're playing such a character, because you want I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't know, I'm not really an actor actor, So
Speaker 3: when you're playing a character, you don't want to impersonate them, right,
Speaker 3: You don't want to make a caricature.
Speaker 1: You want to do your version of them.
Speaker 4: Is that correct? Yes? Yes, I mean I definitely didn't. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you don't want to do an impersonation. But also like
Speaker 4: the juicyness of the opportunity of playing a real person,
Speaker 4: being like I want to try to honor and get
Speaker 4: down this person's essence and also you know, the rhythm
Speaker 4: of how she spoke and where her voice was and
Speaker 4: how she moves and all that stuff. But yeah, I
Speaker 4: mean that was like the terror of working on it.
Speaker 4: Myself and then showing up and you know, because I don't, like,
Speaker 4: I don't work with a coach or anything. I do
Speaker 4: this sort of like unconscious dream work that is its
Speaker 4: own thing. But like I'd never heard myself do it
Speaker 4: out loud basically until I showed up on set. I
Speaker 4: mean I did it in the audition, but you know, auditions,
Speaker 4: you're just kind of starting that process where you watch
Speaker 4: like a couple videos and you know, I had listened
Speaker 4: to her audio book, but yeah, I was so scared
Speaker 4: because I was like, I don't know, am I doing
Speaker 4: this right? I mean I sort of felt that way
Speaker 4: throughout the whole shoot, Like we were still shooting episode eight,
Speaker 4: and I remember saying to Ian Brennan, who is one
Speaker 4: of the co creators of the show, and he was
Speaker 4: also directing, and I just remember sort of standing there
Speaker 4: and being like, do you think I'm good? And he
Speaker 4: was like, what do you mean? The scene was good?
Speaker 4: And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I mean like,
Speaker 4: do you think I'm good as Leslie? And he was like,
Speaker 4: what are you talking about? Like you are Leslie? What
Speaker 4: do you mean? And I was like, okay, this finess, man.
Speaker 1: How did you not you didn't what does the voice
Speaker 1: or the accent? I mean, I mean on your own.
Speaker 4: Like I did kind of, but it's sort of like
Speaker 4: I would hear it. I mean, and I was just watching.
Speaker 4: I was watching everything with her. She wrote a book
Speaker 4: and she also did the audio books, so I would
Speaker 4: listen to that all the time. I would fall asleep
Speaker 4: to her voice said policy to the book. And you know,
Speaker 4: like there were days on set when I did it,
Speaker 4: but especially in the very beginning, I had one day
Speaker 4: of shooting and then I had I think three weeks
Speaker 4: off or a month, and you know, those are the
Speaker 4: dark days of the soul, when it's the interstitial time
Speaker 4: where you're like, what have I done? Am I going
Speaker 4: to be fired? Am I doing this right? And I
Speaker 4: think because you do, like everybody kind of has their
Speaker 4: own way of doing it, Like some people are watching
Speaker 4: everything and trying to get it perfectly, Like there's some
Speaker 4: videos from the trial that I wanted it to be
Speaker 4: as close to the thing as possible. But then sometimes
Speaker 4: people play real people, but they just are like, I'm
Speaker 4: doing completely doing my own version of it, and they're
Speaker 4: both right, you know, but it's just like a matter
Speaker 4: of if it works within the context of the thing.
Speaker 3: But okay, go back to what you were saying. You
Speaker 3: do some dream sequence. What did you just mentioned earlier
Speaker 3: before that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so there's this creative dream work I do, and
Speaker 4: it sort of is about tapping into your unconscious as
Speaker 4: a way of tapping into your creative source, like this
Speaker 4: idea that sort of every character comes to you for
Speaker 4: a reason and at this time, and it's like, what
Speaker 4: are you able to explore sort of through this character
Speaker 4: of this work. So some times you use an actual
Speaker 4: dream and you sort of walk through the dream in
Speaker 4: your mind. It's very it's very hard to describe, but
Speaker 4: it's really powerful. And I sort of used the episode
Speaker 4: five where me and Cooper Katchi plays Eric Menandez where
Speaker 4: it's a one shot, one seen conversation with us in prison,
Speaker 4: and sort of used that and walked through that, and
Speaker 4: a lot of really interesting things came up for me
Speaker 4: in that about anger, about like confronting and owning my
Speaker 4: own anger. Because Leslie was somebody who is like very
Speaker 4: in touch with her anger and would define herself as
Speaker 4: a as a fighter, like a fighting type, and I'm
Speaker 4: less of a fighting type, Like I have a lot
Speaker 4: of anger, but it's not. You know, I think for
Speaker 4: women it's hard to own anger. It's hard to know
Speaker 4: or for me, for me just speaking for myself, where
Speaker 4: it's it's there. But I think tapping into that and
Speaker 4: owning that and holding that and that was such a
Speaker 4: big part of I think where she was coming from
Speaker 4: an episode five of like the anger of what they
Speaker 4: had gone through and what there was parents like that
Speaker 4: that was not what parenting was, and so there was
Speaker 4: you know, it's it's a it's a deep way of
Speaker 4: getting in touch with something without it being like, what's
Speaker 4: my objective in the scene, you know, it's like a
Speaker 4: deep right, right, I'm doing a great job. I think
Speaker 4: I'm doing a very good job describing well.
Speaker 3: I mean, I've never heard about this before, so it's
Speaker 3: my introduction. So that's okay. I don't have to fully understand.
Speaker 3: I just wanted to get a sense of what you
Speaker 3: were talking about. As soon as you said dream work,
Speaker 3: I'm like, we're gonna need to go back to that
Speaker 3: for a second. Yeah, Okay, We're going to take a
Speaker 3: break and we'll be right back with Ari Grainer.
Speaker 6: And we're back with are you ready to give some advice?
Speaker 3: All r are you ready to give some at least
Speaker 3: some of the Are you ready to give some legal advice?
Speaker 4: Because legal advice the most all advised dating advice. I
Speaker 4: cannot way medical.
Speaker 2: You know we do a lot of that here.
Speaker 4: Oh I mean medical too, Yeah, no, I got it.
Speaker 6: Well, this it's so funny how sometimes things will come
Speaker 6: up earlier in the episode that we then have questions about.
Speaker 6: So our first question is a write in. It comes
Speaker 6: from Wendy. Wendy says, Dear Chelsea, I am a woman
Speaker 6: in the United States. I feel extremely unsafe with the
Speaker 6: current administration. I'm a feminist and activist and have become
Speaker 6: much more active since the DABS decision. I even host
Speaker 6: a podcast about deconstructing patriarchy and living life on your
Speaker 6: own terms. However, I feel compelled to move out of
Speaker 6: this soon to be a shithole. My friend says, like
Speaker 6: James Baldwin, I will regret leaving to better myself while
Speaker 6: leaving everyone else behind.
Speaker 2: I disagree. At what point did people start leaving Germany.
Speaker 6: I can still do all feminist and activist interests while
Speaker 6: living overseas. I can fly back and do keynotes, host
Speaker 6: my podcast, and write my substack and talk on social media.
Speaker 2: Do you think I'll regret moving out, Wendy.
Speaker 1: I would say, go for it.
Speaker 3: I personally, if you are not comfortable with what's happening,
Speaker 3: you go, and if you have the means to go. Absolutely.
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people are having these thoughts,
Speaker 3: and I think you have to do what's right for
Speaker 3: your sanity.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that, And
Speaker 4: I don't know. I mean, it's so hard to know
Speaker 4: of like all the specifics of what you're who you're leaving,
Speaker 4: but it's also people. You still hold those people in
Speaker 4: your life, you know, and there's there's other life to
Speaker 4: be had, there's other experiences to be had, there's other
Speaker 4: places to live, and I think, like fine, listening to
Speaker 4: that voice is important. I mean, these are questions I
Speaker 4: ask myself. Do I don't know, do you ask yourself
Speaker 4: those questions?
Speaker 3: Jo Oh, absolutely, I'm thinking about it all the time.
Speaker 3: I'm always thinking about it. I just watched Lee last night,
Speaker 3: that Kate Winslet movie that. Yeah, it takes place during
Speaker 3: World War Two and like the Rise of Hitler, her
Speaker 3: whole life was happening during the Rise of Hitler.
Speaker 1: And she talks to the movie like the character.
Speaker 3: It happened so slowly, yet it happened so quickly, like
Speaker 3: they watched it, but it didn't seem real. It seemed
Speaker 3: like a dream. It seemed surreal, and then it was real.
Speaker 3: And then you had to exist within that. And it's like,
Speaker 3: how do you exist when Hitler's trying to take over
Speaker 3: Europe and he's the most powerful man in Europe? And
Speaker 3: she talks about living a life under that, like within that,
Speaker 3: living a life and then choosing, And then she became
Speaker 3: a war photographer because she had to do her part.
Speaker 3: She felt so compelled to do her part. And whatever
Speaker 3: your part is, you can still do that without being
Speaker 3: in this country.
Speaker 1: I believe that. I don't think you have to be
Speaker 1: here to fight.
Speaker 3: And I totally understand wanting to get out of here,
Speaker 3: and I would say, if that's your inclination, go for it.
Speaker 1: You can.
Speaker 3: Of course, you're not gonna you know, the people in
Speaker 3: your life or in your life, they're not going anywhere, but.
Speaker 1: You might be.
Speaker 3: And you know, if that's your decision, absolutely I totally
Speaker 3: get it.
Speaker 4: I think you should go. Wendy, Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 6: I find myself wanting to sort of like bury my
Speaker 6: head in the sand a little bit, and like, this
Speaker 6: is not what Wendy's doing.
Speaker 2: She's like, I'm going to keep up the good fight.
Speaker 6: But if you need to remove yourself from the physical
Speaker 6: location in order to like keep your stamina to keep
Speaker 6: doing that, it's probably the right choice.
Speaker 4: Well, And fighting can look like a lot of different ways,
Speaker 4: or resistance can look like a lot of different ways,
Speaker 4: Like it's it doesn't just have to be what we
Speaker 4: think of of, like fighting in a traditional sense, like
Speaker 4: that can also be stepping outside of the norm or
Speaker 4: what you think you're supposed to do and showing a
Speaker 4: resistance about what feels right to you. Yeah, go, Wendy go.
Speaker 4: Maybe I'll be following you.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And Wendy, send us the name of your podcast.
Speaker 6: We'll put it in the show notes so people can
Speaker 6: check it out. Our first color is Bree. Bree says
Speaker 6: Dear Chelsea. I'm thirty five, and I've been in a
Speaker 6: series of monogamous relationships since i was eighteen. I left
Speaker 6: a tenure relationship with a great man who I still
Speaker 6: adore as a friend, then fucked around and found myself
Speaker 6: in a relationship with a raging alcoholic, then somehow ended
Speaker 6: up in a relationship with a man. Child put myself
Speaker 6: through the ringer and have been in therapy for two
Speaker 6: and a half years to find out a lot about
Speaker 6: myself as well as what I want in a partner.
Speaker 6: A year and a half ago, I told my therapist
Speaker 6: about all the qualities I wanted in a man, and boom,
Speaker 6: I met him that night and can now finally say
Speaker 6: I'm in a loving and healthy relationship with someone I
Speaker 6: truly see a future with.
Speaker 2: He's a little.
Speaker 6: Older than me and has been ready to move in
Speaker 6: together for a couple months. But here's a thing. I
Speaker 6: love living alone and I'm having a very hard time
Speaker 6: thinking about leaving my apartment and living with someone else again.
Speaker 6: Help a sister out, how do I handle this?
Speaker 7: Bri?
Speaker 3: Hibri Hibri, Wow, Bri, I totally I feel you.
Speaker 1: This is our special guest today, Ari Grainer, Hi, I
Speaker 1: feel you.
Speaker 3: And is there any way you can keep your apartment
Speaker 3: while you move in with him?
Speaker 7: I mean I could, but it's so expensive where I live,
Speaker 7: and like that would be The dream is to keep
Speaker 7: my apartment, for sure, but I don't know how I
Speaker 7: would work that financially.
Speaker 1: It is the only thing.
Speaker 4: Are you guys in the same city, so we're like.
Speaker 7: Forty five minutes apart, which I love because it's like
Speaker 7: space and we both live by the ocean, so it's perfect.
Speaker 7: But it's just like, yeah, so we're forty five minutes apart,
Speaker 7: but the commute doesn't really bug us or anything.
Speaker 3: I honestly, I'm going to just say that I would
Speaker 3: stay where you are. Thankes surprise here, I know, But
Speaker 3: I would just say, any distance you can have with
Speaker 3: you someone you love, you met this great guy, it
Speaker 3: sounds perfect for you, and it sounds like you manifested
Speaker 3: it like very quickly, and if you're really into and
Speaker 3: you dig your alone time, I really would be hesitant
Speaker 3: to give that up.
Speaker 4: I had to say my partner now that I've been
Speaker 4: with for four and a half years, I live in
Speaker 4: upstate New York and he lives in Seattle half the
Speaker 4: time because he has a sixteen year old And I
Speaker 4: don't know, after like a lot of relationships of like
Speaker 4: serial monogamy, living with peoplelah blah blah, sometimes I think
Speaker 4: it's harder to be with somebody all of the time
Speaker 4: than it is to be away from each other sometimes,
Speaker 4: and I don't know, I think it can look a
Speaker 4: lot of different ways where you can have like a beautiful, full, intimate,
Speaker 4: committed relationship and not have to live together all of
Speaker 4: the time.
Speaker 8: Yeah, totally, I fully agree with you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, forty five minutes away is nothing like that is nothing.
Speaker 3: I mean, I've been in so many long distance relationships
Speaker 3: and they work great because there's not an overdose of
Speaker 3: the person in my life. I want to miss someone,
Speaker 3: you know, that's what makes me keep coming back. So
Speaker 3: and you seem like that same type if you're saying that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but you're saying it's too hard the financials of
Speaker 4: holding onto this relationship, this apartment, now that's.
Speaker 1: So hard or no, I we can keep our living
Speaker 1: situation as is. And that's the thing.
Speaker 7: I never want to live with someone just because it's
Speaker 7: financially smart like that. I've done that and it's not
Speaker 7: the right way to approach things. But yeah, I can
Speaker 7: keep my spot now for as long as I want.
Speaker 7: He can keep his spot. It's more just the he
Speaker 7: wants to live together, and I'm like, I'm not ready.
Speaker 4: Can you can? Do you have the kind of work
Speaker 4: life where you can go stay with him for you know,
Speaker 4: like a week on, a week off kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, totally. I work from home so it's easy.
Speaker 7: And my therapist she had mentioned doing like a trial run.
Speaker 7: But even that, I'm like, I know I'm gonna want
Speaker 7: to go home.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I'm gonna want my space.
Speaker 3: Have you talked to him about it, like about your hesitancy?
Speaker 1: Yeah, he knows everything. He actually knows.
Speaker 7: I was asking you guys for advice too, and he
Speaker 7: was like, good, get her advice, and I was like,
Speaker 7: not agree with what you want.
Speaker 1: But I just think you have to.
Speaker 3: As women, we really have to listen to ourselves. And
Speaker 3: sometimes we get swept away in an emotion and a
Speaker 3: feeling and we make a decision and based on what
Speaker 3: someone else wants for our relationship. And of course he
Speaker 3: wants to live with you. Of course he wants to
Speaker 3: see you every morning when you wake up. But if
Speaker 3: that's not the type of person you are, and I
Speaker 3: think this is more and more true for women everywhere.
Speaker 3: You're going to end up presenting that, you're going to
Speaker 3: end up feeling crowded, and you may sabotage the relationship,
Speaker 3: not definitely, but possibly. So why even risk it if
Speaker 3: you have a good thing going forty five minutes is nothing.
Speaker 4: And it's so chic to live apart, and it's like
Speaker 4: both places can feel like a version of home, and
Speaker 4: like having alone time is important, Like I feel like
Speaker 4: that has been like the key pillar of my life
Speaker 4: and healthy relationships has been like how much time I
Speaker 4: need alone and reckoning with that because for so long
Speaker 4: it felt like there was something wrong with me for
Speaker 4: requiring the amount of alone time I need it And
Speaker 4: it has nothing to do with the relationship or bearing
Speaker 4: on any anything except that, like it's important autonomy. Alone
Speaker 4: time is good and your relationship can flourish within that.
Speaker 3: So and then you can just spit it be like
Speaker 3: this is how committed I am to you.
Speaker 1: I'm going to keep my apartment.
Speaker 3: Because I believe we're going to go like for the
Speaker 3: long haul, and I want us, I want us to
Speaker 3: be successful, and I think that's going to be part
Speaker 3: of our success.
Speaker 6: Yeah, okay, I love the idea that our head of
Speaker 6: like even if it's a few days on and a
Speaker 6: few days off, or a week on and a week off,
Speaker 6: like do it part time, but it doesn't have to
Speaker 6: be like let's try it for six months.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, especially forty five minutes away, you know,
Speaker 4: and it's like a week. Yeah, like going there for
Speaker 4: a week, then I have a couple of days, then
Speaker 4: he can come there if he can, Like I don't know,
Speaker 4: I've found that that's worked very well for me. And
Speaker 4: now this feels like our home together, but also what
Speaker 4: I can do how I feel, or like what I
Speaker 4: can do for myself when I'm alone in my you know,
Speaker 4: my week off. Well he's back. It's like I need
Speaker 4: that time.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, same.
Speaker 7: It's like a recharge for sure, and like a reset
Speaker 7: and recenter and the whole thing.
Speaker 4: For sure.
Speaker 8: I completely agree.
Speaker 1: So I guess my question is, though, is like what
Speaker 1: if it becomes a deal.
Speaker 8: Breaker and then I have to choose between the two?
Speaker 1: Do you think it will become a deal breaker?
Speaker 8: I think so in the future.
Speaker 4: Yeah, how long have you guys been together. We're coming
Speaker 4: up on two years. Well, also, I feel like in
Speaker 4: two years, who knows how you'll feel or how he feels, right,
Speaker 4: you know, like in this moment, especially if maybe it's
Speaker 4: you commit to different chunks of time together. So it's
Speaker 4: thinking about doing like a week together and then three
Speaker 4: days apart, and that like maybe there's a way to
Speaker 4: structure some of that time, so you both know how
Speaker 4: you are committed to spending big chunks of time together
Speaker 4: while also having that time apart, and then you know
Speaker 4: your feelings might change in a few years.
Speaker 3: Or commit to doing a month together and then teach
Speaker 3: yourselves both a lesson because I'm sure by the end
Speaker 3: of it you both want fucking three days off.
Speaker 1: Like you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: You can be like, sure, let's try. I'll come live
Speaker 3: with you for one month straight and then let's discuss it.
Speaker 3: Let's regroup and see how we both liked that, you know,
Speaker 3: like experimentally.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would definitely trust your gut.
Speaker 6: And if he does, make it a deal breaker, call
Speaker 6: in and do a MINISOD for couples.
Speaker 1: Counseling and we'll do couples counseling.
Speaker 2: Love that idea fun?
Speaker 4: Perfect, right?
Speaker 2: Thanks?
Speaker 4: Okay, bye ba bye.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 4: By the way, do you watch couples Therapy?
Speaker 1: I love it? I love it.
Speaker 3: I love watching therapy. It's the best me to or
Speaker 3: not is such a good therapist? Yeah, I really's good.
Speaker 4: She is.
Speaker 3: Whenever they talk, whenever we see her personal life, I'm like, no, no,
Speaker 3: I don't I don't want to see anything about her
Speaker 3: personal life, like she's such a good therapist. I just
Speaker 3: want to keep her in that little bubble, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean, totally. Yeah, I don't want to know
Speaker 3: that you have a son.
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not interested she has.
Speaker 4: A son, I think so, I think she has a.
Speaker 2: Silars Yeah, don't.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 2: Our next question comes from Catherine.
Speaker 6: I think she needs a little bit of like a
Speaker 6: confidence boost here, so she says, Dear Chelsea, I went
Speaker 6: through a bit of a hard time a few years ago,
Speaker 6: and just this year started dating again.
Speaker 2: It's been a rollercoaster, for sure.
Speaker 6: I've had some people I've been interested in, dated, slept with,
Speaker 6: but nothing's panned out. My workplace shares a building with
Speaker 6: another company. I've had negative experiences in the past dating
Speaker 6: coworkers and have a strict no coworkers policy for myself.
Speaker 6: When I first started the job, I noticed a good
Speaker 6: looking guy at the other company, but never had reason
Speaker 6: to interact. He introduced himself to me when there was
Speaker 6: a random fire in the building, and then a couple
Speaker 6: months later, a weird accident led to him talking to
Speaker 6: me again. We've chatted a few times since. Recently, he's
Speaker 6: intentionally brought himself into my orbit, and I'm pretty sure
Speaker 6: he's also interested. My issue is that even though we
Speaker 6: don't work together, we share an open workspace.
Speaker 2: Second ish you.
Speaker 6: A different colleague of mine has proven to be a
Speaker 6: bit of a gross person when it comes to at
Speaker 6: work relations. Because my work crush and this colleague associate,
Speaker 6: I can't help but worry that my crush shares the
Speaker 6: same kind of locker room talk as this colleague. I
Speaker 6: pride myself on my reputation at work, so everything in
Speaker 6: me is screaming not to pursue it. But I don't
Speaker 6: want to write off my first real crush in four years.
Speaker 6: Should I give him a chance despite my colleague's bro talk?
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2: And this is also Catherine.
Speaker 1: So afterine what they're doing? What is all of this nonsense?
Speaker 1: This is all noise? Get after it.
Speaker 8: This is this is the noisiest thing.
Speaker 3: I now will turn the fucking volume down and get
Speaker 3: down to the basics. You are attracted to someone who
Speaker 3: is attracted to you just because he has so. I
Speaker 3: have a news flash for you, Like guys you're gonna
Speaker 3: date are gonna have asshole friends, period.
Speaker 8: Friends. I don't even I've been talking to exactly.
Speaker 3: You don't even know if all of this is like supposition.
Speaker 3: You're not even sure what's happening, and you're built, you're
Speaker 3: making like eighty different blocks for you to get to
Speaker 3: this person that may or may not even be true.
Speaker 4: You can also tell him, I mean you can also like,
Speaker 4: this is what I love about getting like dating when
Speaker 4: you're older is like you can also say the things
Speaker 4: early on where I feel like, when you're young, you're
Speaker 4: so afraid of saying a wrong thing that is like
Speaker 4: gonna make somebody run. And then I feel like when
Speaker 4: you get older, you're like, let me just say all
Speaker 4: the things so like, and then you can decide what
Speaker 4: you want to do, and I'll decide what I want
Speaker 4: to do. And you can also be like I'm worried
Speaker 4: about this, you know, or like here's a concern of
Speaker 4: mine and just talking it through and who knows what
Speaker 4: he'll say about it?
Speaker 1: And moreover, what makes you think that they are our friends?
Speaker 8: I kind of am not wired for workplace flirtations anymore.
Speaker 8: No shit, I've definitely bumbled through those a little bit.
Speaker 5: I And anytime I was like, okay, you know, I
Speaker 5: can work it in there, he's just like so dead
Speaker 5: pan like about what's going on in our company. And
Speaker 5: then I'm just like, Okay, well now it's not the
Speaker 5: time for this kind of thing. And then just the
Speaker 5: way that he speaks about my colleagues is kind of
Speaker 5: what's hinting that there's really maybe not the best interaction there.
Speaker 5: It's kind of just a we work in the same environment.
Speaker 5: I'm going to keep the peace kind of thing. But
Speaker 5: I also have to be very careful what I say
Speaker 5: about that, because again I don't know him very well,
Speaker 5: so maybe he's going to say what I've been saying
Speaker 5: back to these people.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, oh my god, we have to ex
Speaker 3: give you. You have to put your head in a
Speaker 3: shampoo bowl and wash all of this garbage out. You
Speaker 3: are just running around in circles in your head. You
Speaker 3: like this guy, he likes you. Forget everything else you do.
Speaker 3: Not even work together. First of all, I'm not against
Speaker 3: that either workplace romance. It's like where adults supposed to meet,
Speaker 3: they work together. That's where happened for me.
Speaker 1: So that's silly. That's a silly rule.
Speaker 3: And like all these rules you have are just kind
Speaker 3: of like you have to work very hard at stripping
Speaker 3: away all of this noise, and that's going to be
Speaker 3: a practice for you, but you can do it.
Speaker 6: I think you should just go ask him out, because
Speaker 6: he's made it clear you don't want to like let
Speaker 6: it go too long, and then he's like feeling like he's.
Speaker 1: Send him send him an email. Go just listen. It
Speaker 1: seems to like to me that you're being very flirtatious.
Speaker 3: If you want to ask me on a date, let
Speaker 3: me know and I can respond very straightforward.
Speaker 8: I go to work on that, yeah.
Speaker 4: Or just be like, do you want to get a
Speaker 4: drink after work or something?
Speaker 8: I finished work at eleven, He's done a five point
Speaker 8: thirty like pm PM.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, would you be comfortable writing an email like that?
Speaker 3: I mean, I know you wouldn't be, but would you
Speaker 3: do it?
Speaker 5: I'm definitely better like writing than I asked initially. I'm
Speaker 5: better at interacting with people with words using like email,
Speaker 5: and then I can once because he hasn't really had
Speaker 5: a chance to see my personality yet, because I've been
Speaker 5: so like, I have this professional face I have to
Speaker 5: put on, so I haven't really been able to show
Speaker 5: my funny side or like the actual me side, which
Speaker 5: is and all.
Speaker 1: The voices in your head. You haven't been able to
Speaker 1: show him that either.
Speaker 8: I know they're just there. You know, they never take
Speaker 8: a vacation.
Speaker 3: Well, I think you should send him an email and
Speaker 3: just put it out there.
Speaker 1: Put it out there.
Speaker 3: You're going to get the response that you want, and
Speaker 3: then you can start dealing with all of these other
Speaker 3: issues that you're creating or let them fall away as
Speaker 3: you start to get to know him, and then you
Speaker 3: can get to know if he's like that or if
Speaker 3: he's like your friend. I'm still confused as to why
Speaker 3: you think that. I don't think you really answered that question,
Speaker 3: Like why do you think this guy that you have
Speaker 3: a crush on is friends with your work colleague?
Speaker 8: Because they all they've all mentioned him before in some context.
Speaker 5: They're having these interactions that aren't work related. So I
Speaker 5: just I kind of just have to assume that maybe
Speaker 5: there's a friendly interaction outside of the workplace as well,
Speaker 5: because I don't a.
Speaker 1: Lot of assumptions, a lot of assumptions.
Speaker 4: I think it's like go see like see each other outside,
Speaker 4: see what the because also you might not even it's
Speaker 4: like him, You might not even like him, you know,
Speaker 4: or he might be the love of your life. You
Speaker 4: don't know, but you got to get out of that
Speaker 4: office to know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, listen, you have one life to live one okay,
Speaker 3: so make it fucking count and work in your best interest.
Speaker 3: No one is going to find love for you. You
Speaker 3: have to find it for you.
Speaker 8: Well, they're trying, they're trying. They're failing, but they're trying.
Speaker 8: Who's day, my friends, they're invested in my love life.
Speaker 1: That's great. I'm glad they're invested.
Speaker 3: But you can't rely on other people to find you
Speaker 3: have the person here. So just don't you need to
Speaker 3: go and send that email and I need you to
Speaker 3: report back to us also, of course, let us know
Speaker 3: what happens.
Speaker 8: Okay, Well, absolutely, thank you.
Speaker 4: Very Also, congrats on having a crush. A crush is
Speaker 4: so fun.
Speaker 8: At the beginning, not now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well you could extend, but you can extend the crush,
Speaker 3: I mean, the flirtation can keep going and going and
Speaker 3: going until you go out, and even then, it's just
Speaker 3: so fun, you know, flirting back and forth, especially over email,
Speaker 3: that's my favorite.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just wish it wasn't in a public space
Speaker 5: that people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you wish a lot of things.
Speaker 4: I know I do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, all right, keep ust posted.
Speaker 4: Bye bye.
Speaker 1: They're going to get married and have lots of.
Speaker 2: Of course they are.
Speaker 4: Of course, I really want to find out what happens.
Speaker 6: We will definitely check back in with her in a
Speaker 6: couple of weeks and see what happened.
Speaker 2: What was her name, Catherine?
Speaker 6: She's a Katherine Elizabeth, just like oh and spelled all
Speaker 6: the right ways. Well, we have one more question, but
Speaker 6: we could take our little break and then come back.
Speaker 2: It's a gesy one.
Speaker 3: Okay, we'll be right back with Ari Greener. We're back
Speaker 3: to we have one more question.
Speaker 1: We have one more caller question.
Speaker 4: Yes, this is so fun.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 3: It's the dream, especially when it's real. It's like sometimes
Speaker 3: we get some questions and I'm like, what the fuck
Speaker 3: are they asking me that for? Like, you know, but
Speaker 3: some questions. I love interpersonal affairs. I love like breaking
Speaker 3: up or getting the finding a crush. That was one
Speaker 3: of my favorite topics. Like that will be.
Speaker 4: What to do about a crush?
Speaker 2: More crush questions?
Speaker 4: Yes, my favorite.
Speaker 6: Well, this question comes from Sarah Dear Chelsea. About a
Speaker 6: year ago, my husband and I went away for a
Speaker 6: few nights. My mother in law stayed at our house
Speaker 6: to watch our small children sleeping in our bed to
Speaker 6: stay close to the baby. When I returned, I noticed
Speaker 6: that my journal, which I keep in my nightstand, had
Speaker 6: obviously been tampered with. The strap was in a different
Speaker 6: place than usual, my worksheets from therapy were not where
Speaker 6: I left them, etc. It was totally shaken. My husband
Speaker 6: handled it and addressed it with my mother in law.
Speaker 6: She denied reading it and said she didn't touch it.
Speaker 6: I had postpartum depression with my second child as well
Speaker 6: as a recent rocky patch with my husband where I
Speaker 6: relied heavily on my journal to process.
Speaker 8: Oh.
Speaker 6: It makes me sick to my stomach to think of
Speaker 6: my mother in law reading my most intimate thoughts I
Speaker 6: used to enjoy looking back on previous years and memories
Speaker 6: I've written about. Every year, I write a letter to
Speaker 6: my children on their birthday. I never knew if I
Speaker 6: was going to give these to them, but it was
Speaker 6: my most intimate thoughts about motherhood and reflecting on each
Speaker 6: year with them. These letters were for me alone and
Speaker 6: possibly one day my children. It makes me very upset
Speaker 6: thinking she read something that was supposed to be between
Speaker 6: me and my daughters. I've come to terms with her denial,
Speaker 6: and I don't believe I will ever fully know the truth.
Speaker 6: How do I continue to use journaling as part of
Speaker 6: my toolbox and staying regulated and well. I wrote in
Speaker 6: this journal every day for four years, and since that event,
Speaker 6: I haven't been able to pick it up again. I
Speaker 6: really loved this part of my day and it helped
Speaker 6: my mental health in a big way. It doesn't feel
Speaker 6: like a safe place anymore. Looking back on past years
Speaker 6: now makes me angry thinking of her reading those thoughts.
Speaker 6: I tried to buy a brand new journal and start fresh,
Speaker 6: but I still have a mental block and can't move forward.
Speaker 6: Is there any way I can get past this and
Speaker 6: start using this coping skill that helped me through some
Speaker 6: dark times?
Speaker 2: Sarah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. First of all, you have to start journaling again.
Speaker 3: This is not your issue. This is your mother in
Speaker 3: law's issue. She opened your book. You cannot control her.
Speaker 3: She opened your journal. She invaded your privacy, so it
Speaker 3: is up to you to take your power back. I
Speaker 3: can guarantee you she's not going to do it again
Speaker 3: after she she's been called out. But you have to
Speaker 3: get a new journal and just start practicing this is
Speaker 3: something that is giving you such relief and such comfort
Speaker 3: that you can go to this place and write in
Speaker 3: your journal each night and write this beautiful letter to
Speaker 3: your daughters each year on their birthdays.
Speaker 1: That is such a beautiful thing to even hear.
Speaker 3: Like, You've got to keep going and do not let
Speaker 3: someone else's misstep create your own misstep. You know, you
Speaker 3: keep going and do whatever you need to do, and
Speaker 3: if it doesn't feel right the first couple times, keep
Speaker 3: doing it.
Speaker 1: Just keep writing into your journal until you get back
Speaker 1: to your safe space.
Speaker 9: What do you think, Ari, Yeah, I mean, there's nothing
Speaker 9: more like that. That kind of writing has also been
Speaker 9: transformative for me. And you can't give that away to her.
Speaker 4: You can't give that power to her or to That's
Speaker 4: a that is something to reclaim for yourself. Absolutely, it's
Speaker 4: a beautiful, beautiful practice. I totally get what a hard
Speaker 4: marbal invasion that is and how hard that is, but
Speaker 4: I feel like it's it's like when you'll fall off
Speaker 4: a horse. Like when somebody falls off a horse and
Speaker 4: they're like, I just have to get back up there
Speaker 4: so that I'm not afraid to ever do it again.
Speaker 4: It's like even if the writing in the beginning is
Speaker 4: like I hate this, this feels wrong. I don't want
Speaker 4: to do this, like just writing the honesty through it
Speaker 4: to get to the upper side, because that's for you. You
Speaker 4: got to keep that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, girl, don't let your mother in law take you down.
Speaker 6: And I wonder too, if there's like a way to
Speaker 6: upend it and like create a different ritual around it,
Speaker 6: like doing it at a different time of day than
Speaker 6: you used to it, doing it in a different place
Speaker 6: like maybe used to write in bed, go to a
Speaker 6: cozy chair, like really changing your ritual around it. Maybe
Speaker 6: it's like saging your journal, like do something that creates
Speaker 6: a different energy around it. And then yes, like start
Speaker 6: with where you're at, like I'm angry that this happened.
Speaker 6: I'm upset that this happened.
Speaker 3: But you just also you have to realize you're holding
Speaker 3: onto these emotions that are not your fault. These are
Speaker 3: hurt These are her issues, not your issues. She was
Speaker 3: being nosy, she had no boundaries. That doesn't change who
Speaker 3: you are. You're choosing to allow her to disrupt this
Speaker 3: connection you had with yourself, and that's on you.
Speaker 1: You have to choose to move forward.
Speaker 3: And you have to choose to be like, I'm bigger
Speaker 3: than this and I'm going to get past this. And yes,
Speaker 3: I understand you're upset, but don't let her take your
Speaker 3: power away.
Speaker 4: I also wonder if there's a way of like writing
Speaker 4: a letter to her that you have no intention of
Speaker 4: ever giving, but just of a reprocessing of saying all
Speaker 4: the things out loud about you know, out loud via
Speaker 4: writing about how that made you feel like that, just
Speaker 4: to get that out, just to keep working through that too,
Speaker 4: to sort of anything that's left over in the mind
Speaker 4: of like you made me never want to do this again.
Speaker 4: My trust is gone, you know, whatever that is that
Speaker 4: you'll never ever give to her, but just as a
Speaker 4: way of also get that part of your feeling out.
Speaker 2: Of your brain and then put that letter in your
Speaker 2: journal and she'll read it.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Ari Grainer, Thank you so much for being
Speaker 3: here today.
Speaker 1: What a delight.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me. This was like
Speaker 4: such a joy. I love you and I'm like just
Speaker 4: so happy I got to be here. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I hope I see you soon.
Speaker 4: You too. Okay, you're back at Jenny and Jason's. Okay,
Speaker 4: bye you guys.
Speaker 1: Bye byeks. Do do do do do.
Speaker 3: Do drum roll, Catherine, please, Chelsea Handler Abroad. Abroad is
Speaker 3: my European tour, which I just announced yesterday. Tickets go
Speaker 3: on sale tomorrow or today or there's a pre sale
Speaker 3: code Chelsea. So I'm coming to obviously find.
Speaker 1: A husband abroad.
Speaker 3: I need to get the health out of this fucking country.
Speaker 3: And it's not as easy as you think. So I'm
Speaker 3: coming to Rekuvic, I'm coming to Dublin. I'm coming to
Speaker 3: the UK, coming to Brussels, Paris, Belfast in May and June.
Speaker 3: I'm coming to Oslo, Stockholm, to Copenhagen, Manchester, London, Glasgow,
Speaker 3: New Zurich, Vienna. I've never ever been to Vienna, Berlin,
Speaker 3: Barcelona and Lisbon.
Speaker 1: I'm coming abroad is abroad that.
Speaker 2: Sounds like fun. I'm gonna go see you abroad.
Speaker 3: I I know I want to go see me abroad
Speaker 3: and there all be there, All be okay, all Upcoming
Speaker 3: Vegas dates March twenty first, April eighteenth, July fifth, August thirtieth,
Speaker 3: November one and twenty ninth at the Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas.
Speaker 1: My book tour. I'll have what she's having.
Speaker 3: Means I am doing book events only book events Northvale,
Speaker 3: New Jersey, on February twenty fourth, February twenty fifth at
Speaker 3: the ninety second Street Y, February twenty sixth, Brookline Booksmith,
Speaker 3: February twenty seventh, Cincinnati, Ohio, February twenty eighth at the
Speaker 3: h Foundation in Chicago, and Barnes and Noble at The
Speaker 3: Girl in Los Angeles on March first, and then Seattle,
Speaker 3: Washington on March third, Elliott.
Speaker 1: Bay and I'll see you guys all there.
Speaker 6: If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email
Speaker 6: at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be
Speaker 6: sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited
Speaker 6: and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine Law and
Speaker 6: be sure to check out our March at Chelseahandler dot
Speaker 6: com