WEBVTT - We Don’t Condone Murder with Ari Graynor 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:03.960 Hi, Catherine. Hi Chelsea, Hi. 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:05.400 Where are you at right now? 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:08.080 You're all over well, I've it's been a rough run 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:08.600 of things. 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:09.879 I am dying. 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:10.959 I'm sick. 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:13.160 I just came from Sun Valley where I shot my 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.560 birthday video. I seem to have picked up a cold 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:17.639 on top of the infection that I have in my shoulders. 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:18.880 So I believe I'm dying. 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:21.360 But I have been dying now for like three or 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.040 four years, and I feel like fighting it really hard. 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:26.160 So we went to Sun Valley meet a bunch of 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:28.800 my girlfriends to shoot my birthday video. 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:34.880 Was quite a production. There was a lot of moving parts. 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:37.440 I had my friends Reggie and Lola christ in Sun 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:40.520 Valley set up the whole thing and organize it. And 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:44.360 it involved a lot of things, a lot of mountains, 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.559 a lot of bikinis, a lot of skiing, and the 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:49.840 sun came out just in time. 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:53.199 Oh beautiful. That's all you can hope for on your birthday. 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:56.280 Well, my birthday's coming up. Tuesday is my birthday. Everyone, 0:00:56.400 --> 0:01:00.360 February twenty fifth, I turned fifty years old. I'm midlife joy. 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.800 That's what we're calling it. Chelsea Joy Handler is experienced 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:06.000 midlife joy. My new book. 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:09.959 I'll have what she's having my seventh book. My seventh 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:12.640 book is coming out on February twenty fifth. 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:15.600 I mean, I'm pretty pumped. 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:18.080 About turning fifty. I'm not going to pretend that I'm 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:19.440 upset about it, because I'm not. 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:22.000 I'm so happy for you. This is going to be 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:24.480 the decade of your life. I foresee it. I see it. 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:27.160 Thank you, I thank you. I appreciate that. But even 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:29.759 though I am dying, I feel amazing. 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:31.480 I'm so pleased. 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:34.280 I'm fighting this infection in my arm from my shoulder thing, 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:35.320 and that's going away. 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:35.800 Hopefully. 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:37.840 I get my pick line out February twenty fourth, the 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:39.039 day before my birthday. 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:41.720 Great time me. I've had one drink in four weeks. 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:43.920 I had a beer the other night when we got 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:47.880 to sun Jali, just to celebrating attitude. Then I announced 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:50.000 my European tour, which is going to take place May 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:53.160 in June. I'm going to like thirteen sixteen cities in Europe, 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:57.720 from like Oslo, Recuvic to Oslo and Portugal, Lisbon, all 0:01:57.760 --> 0:01:58.520 these places. 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:00.000 So that's pretty excited. 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:02.000 And yes, I know Lisbon is the capital of Portugal 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:04.240 and Portugal isn't part of Lisbon, but I said it 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:06.560 in the wrong order, so that's really exciting. And my 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:09.160 Netflix special, which we just showed a clip of yesterday, 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:11.800 is coming out March twenty fifth, and I've just parted 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:14.160 rays with Dog. Doug was met in Sun Valley by 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:16.640 my bell, who flew home with him while I flew 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:19.000 back to Whistler because I'm having a birthday party, a 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:21.720 pre birthday party here before I leave for New York 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:22.680 to promote my book. 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:25.000 It's probably not suitable for children like Dog. 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:28.040 No, my book is probably not suitable for our children, 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:29.160 or adults for that matter. 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:33.000 Our guest today stars in Winning Time, Missus America, and 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:39.880 most recently Monsters. She played Leslie Abramson in the Lyle 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:43.480 and Eric Menenda story. Please welcome actress, Ari Grainer. 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:49.440 Hi, juju Hi, it's a jew festival. How are you? 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.200 It's a Jew bez. I'm great. 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:55.160 How are you wecome to the podcast? Ari Grainer. 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:59.240 I'm so happy to be on here and see you. 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:01.920 I met a good jollyon years ago. 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.880 Where did we meet? Refresh my memory? Please? 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:11.400 It was probably seventeen to eighteen years at Jenny and 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:12.880 Jason Oh. 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:16.040 Oh my god, two hot messes, the hot two of 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:17.040 the hottest messes. 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:18.519 And actually that's not fair to Jason. 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.640 Jenny's really the hot mess of the two, even though 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:23.640 Jason is also a high missed them. 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:25.840 Do you guys not see each other anymore? 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:26.200 Are you? 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:28.640 Where are you? You're in New York, right, I'm in 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:30.480 New York. I'm in upstate New York. 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.880 Now, Oh yes, you just bought your first big girl house. 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:36.320 I got a big girl house like six months before 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:40.000 the pandemic. I bought like a house built in eighteen 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:44.400 oh three with sixty two acres and a barn built 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:48.040 in seventeen ninety six. And it's it's crazy. It's been 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:49.840 like a hole. It's almost amazing. 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:51.880 Just in time to go back to that, just to 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:53.240 go back to that century. 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:57.840 That's right, everyone needs to step back into eighteen oh three. 0:03:57.960 --> 0:03:59.520 Well, congratulations on that. 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:00.640 Thank you. 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:03.640 Isn't it nice to be a female homeowner? 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:08.080 It truly, truly is. I mean, it was a wild 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:10.480 thing doing it right before the pandemic. And I was 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:12.960 dating somebody at the time, but he hadn't seen the place, 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:14.840 and then we broke up, and then it was pandemic 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:18.240 and me and my dog were just like, great, now 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:22.440 we'll just face our existential crisis out on the land 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:25.560 and in this new house. And it was a pretty wild. 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:28.200 I think it's really powerful when you are a single 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:30.479 woman and are able to buy property. 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:32.159 It shouldn't really be. 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:35.840 As I was reading her notes, it is something that 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:37.520 you were talking about, because I thought it was a 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:41.080 great point about how long ago it was. It wasn't 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:43.560 that long ago where we had to get man's permission 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:46.120 to even have our name on a deed or to 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:48.680 cot they had to coast side a card to co 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.120 vouch for us to get I mean. 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:54.760 What like the seventies, Like it was not that long ago. 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:57.240 What a nightmare? That sounds like. 0:04:57.360 --> 0:04:59.840 I really hope we're not headed back in that direction, 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.679 even though all fingers are pointing in that direction. 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:05.680 I know it's a scary time for sure, but yeah, 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:09.279 I mean it's felt like the power of that, like 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:14.520 it was a huge internal sense of power of not 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:18.039 only buying the place, but then being here alone and 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:20.880 having a space where it's like, you know, we have 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:24.040 all these like images of like the Marlborough Man or 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:27.320 like men alone in the woods and doing their thing, 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:30.120 but we don't only have that for women. And then 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:31.800 when I was here and I was out on the 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:35.720 land and doing my thing and being in solitude and 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:40.280 being like, this is my place. This is a powerful I. 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:41.279 Like out on the land. 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:45.520 Yeah, do you have like stuff like animals out on 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:46.640 the property. 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:49.279 No. I mean there's like the wild animals, you know, 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:53.920 so there's the occasional bear sighting. There's like some random 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:57.400 weasel kind of creatures and muskrats by the pond, and 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:00.760 deer and fox and you know, it's like all of that. 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:02.320 But I don't have chickens yet. 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:04.560 Eventually, have you ever seen any of those black black 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:06.480 king snakes up there in upstate New York? 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:10.000 Not a black king snake, I don't think, But there 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:14.320 are snakes. We called the big one Matild. We said 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:17.719 bulgeoue metild. I don't know why she got named Matild. 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.000 But there are these like enormous garden stakes. And one 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:24.440 got in the house. But I wasn't home and my 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:26.800 parents were here. My mom sent me this picture of 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:30.400 like a snake like this big that had I guess, 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:32.920 crawled through like the stone walls and was in the 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:35.240 living room and she had to take it out. And 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:38.680 I was very glad I wasn't home well. 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:40.080 So I do used to date this guy who had 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:41.880 a house in upstate New York and he had this 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:43.600 and there was this guy that lived in one of 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:46.599 the properties around him, and he knew I have I 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:49.240 have like a phobia of snakes, and they have all 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:52.880 those black, thick king snakes up in upstate New York. 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:55.560 And he told us he once opened up his cellar 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.400 turned on lights, and I mean it was pitch black 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:01.680 and all you saw were all these little sets of 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:05.720 white eyes, and that there were dot and it dozens, 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:10.040 dozens and king snakes resting on top of each other. 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:10.320 No. 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:12.640 I was like, that is like a scene for my 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:13.880 worst nightmare movie. 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:18.320 Yeah. Yeah, Luckily, like the snakes are not the issue 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:22.920 for me. It's rodentia is the problem. And so when 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:25.800 I first moved here and and there was the first 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:28.480 couple of mouse sightings, I was like, I just have 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.680 to move. I'll have to sell it. I'm I'm out run, 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.320 I'm leaving a house I can never go inside ever again, 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:35.200 So burn it down. 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:40.000 What is rodentia exactly? Isn't that an an of rodentne rat. 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:44.000 It's like if I see like a mouse, I completely 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:47.320 lose my shit, and I've gotten better, like the big 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:50.080 like I could be alone for like months at a 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:52.360 time and figure out how to make that be okay. 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:54.720 But if there was a mouse or a dead mouse 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:57.000 in the house, I was like, this is something I 0:07:57.000 --> 0:07:59.480 can't deal with. This is this is like the true 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:04.679 conference of my abilities. But snakes, like, I'm okay, that's funny. 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:07.400 I think people either have it about it's usually snakes 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:10.800 or spiders, and then it's usual spiders, Like I can 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:12.640 deal if I see a mouse, I'm not excited, but 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:13.720 I'm not going to lose it. 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:15.200 Like if I saw a snake. 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:17.720 Even in the wilderness, I have an issue with them 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:18.200 being there. 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:21.560 I'm okay with snakes, yeah, Spiders, Yeah that holds up. 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:24.280 Fighters okay too. It's like it's something about the way 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:26.680 the mouse moves. And I think I also have like 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:31.440 a traumatic experience with a hamster in my youth and 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:33.360 I never quite got over. 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:37.760 It didn't involve Richard Gears, but you know that's why 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:39.760 he had to move to Spain. He's actually he's on 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:41.319 the right track. He got the fuck out of here. 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:45.080 I was like, wait, that story, it's so funny. When 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:47.320 you hear rumors like that for so many years and 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:48.559 so many years that you know. 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:51.160 That rumor that career struck a Gerbil off his ass. 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:53.600 But it's like, how can you be a person that 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.079 goes around and those rumors are like, there's no recourse. 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.280 You just have to sit there and take it. You 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:00.160 just have to sit there because it's so ludical. Is 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:01.959 it could be completely made up or it could be 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:05.239 completely true. We'll never know, and maybe he doesn't. 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:09.720 Remember, maybe maybe he was in a black ari. 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:11.959 I was so first, I'm so impressed with your acting. 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:14.679 I think you're such a gifted and talented actress, as 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.920 do many others obviously, and I saw you in it 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:21.120 was at missus America, right, you were amazing in that. 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:25.720 And then most recently you were in Monsters, The Menandez 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:31.000 Brother's Story playing Leslie Stall their attorney, which sorry, sorry, sorry. 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:33.560 Leslie Abra, but Leslie Stall is great too. I'd love 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:37.400 to play her an attorney too. I think she was 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:41.280 on sixty minutes perfect Leslie Stall. 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:43.640 Leslie tight curls. 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:45.400 Yeah, it's the same. 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:48.000 I am so eager to hear about your thoughts about 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:51.240 the Menendaz Brothers and like what you think, I mean, are. 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:52.400 They evolving right now? 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:53.240 Well now, because Kim. 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:54.920 Kardashian is trying to get them out of jail, and 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:56.640 I think she's success She's succeeding. 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:00.079 Well she was, I mean, you know now, look, I 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.480 mean I've been I was like embroiled for a year 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:06.800 and playing their defensive journeys. So obviously I was coming 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:09.760 at it from, you know, a very specific point of view. 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:12.839 I strongly believe it's time for them to be out 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:18.000 of jail. And Kim and all the gen zers who 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:22.200 found the Menendez trial on YouTube when it came in 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:24.959 twenty twenty one and then sort of started this movement 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:28.920 like on TikTok with them, and then the DA who 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:32.319 just who didn't get reelected, was like, get them out 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:33.920 of there. And now I just hope they don't get 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:40.680 stuck in another round of political maneuvering, because it's time 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:43.480 and it feels like the sentiment is like it's time 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:46.480 to look at this. And then this new DA keeps 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:50.360 pushing their trial date and I think it just got 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:54.240 moved again until March. It was supposed to be January thirtieth, 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:58.360 but they've been in for thirty five years. You know, 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:03.360 they both got college degrees, they have been helping hospice 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:07.360 with older inmates, they started a green space program. They've 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:11.400 never had another incident, and you know, I think just 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:14.880 if that trial happened now, I think it would be 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:17.880 looked at in a different kind of way than it 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:18.440 was by them. 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:21.280 So you're like on their side, right you? 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:21.760 Is that? What? 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:22.760 Yeah? I am? 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:25.880 You believe you believe because there's there's a lot of 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:29.360 back and forth about whether or not they were abused 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:33.400 to the degree that they claimed they were, and whether 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:37.240 or not this punishment is justified or if it's just 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:41.160 a sentencing. And because I came away from watching that, 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:43.960 I mean, I think I watched the real documentary and 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:47.240 then I watched your series, and I came away just 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:51.320 more confused than ever. I wasn't convinced that they were 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:53.760 as abused as they said they were. And then I 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:55.840 was like, God, if this, if these were two girls, 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:59.240 I wouldn't hesitate to believe them, you know, And I 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:01.360 had to think about why I didn't believe them, because 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:03.720 I was like, well, I just but and then I've 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:05.840 never been you know, I've never had that kind of 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:08.760 manipulation in my life where somebody was manipulating, Like if 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:10.960 if somebody did treat you that way and you were 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:14.520 you did turn into a grown man who could defend 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:18.679 yourself that you wouldn't because you're so brainwashed and you're 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:22.480 so there's such a power dynamic there. So talk to 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:24.679 me a little bit about what you learned about that, 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:28.520 because I'm so curious as from an insider's perspective. 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:32.120 Yeah, I mean that was kind of at the crux 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:37.160 of the first trial, which was that basically the original 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:40.559 trial was a hung dury and it came down basically 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:44.880 along gender lines because the men didn't believe that boys 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:48.320 could be sexually abused, and culturally people didn't believe that, 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:53.080 which is absurd, you know. And I think that the 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:56.960 psychological impact, which is you know what leslie over the 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.280 course of that trial and the six years that she 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:02.520 was working with them, was trying to get people to 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:07.560 understand the psychology of abuse and of trauma, and and 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:09.840 you know, people being like, well, why didn't they just leave? 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:14.479 And it's like when you've been not only like horrifically 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:19.920 sexual abused, but also essentially brainwashed, the culture of control 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:23.720 within that house or in an abusive relationship you don't 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:27.440 realize you you can or how, or when people are 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:32.440 constantly threatening your life, you know. And even now, we 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:38.160 still don't really have like a correct recourse for victims 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.560 of abuse, who have tried to get away, who have 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:43.680 tried to divorce, who have tried to have restraining orders. 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:47.199 I'm not I'm not in any way condoning killing people 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:51.280 by anyway, but that's not what I'm here to do. 0:13:54.400 --> 0:14:00.240 A spouse's retaliation in the form of murder. 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.959 Yeah, yeah, It's not something I'm signing up for, but 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:06.320 it is a part of the justice system that I 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:10.680 think is four women, four children of when you were 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:13.320 in a position in your life is on the line. 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:16.920 Does that mean that you should then be in prison 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:19.080 for the rest of your life because it was the 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:22.920 only way that you could survive. To me, I would 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:25.200 say not, but you know that's just me. 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:27.720 So what about the fact that was it Lyle that 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:30.320 was on the who was talking to his girlfriend after 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:32.960 the fact and admitted to lying about the sexual abuse. 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:34.760 What about that component of information. 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:38.440 Well, here's what I feel about that, which is like, also, 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:41.720 they did so much research on the show, So stuff 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.040 that was in there was correct. I never read the 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:47.080 book that she wrote. I was sort of like, I'm 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:52.640 staying on my defense track. But psychologically, there's something that 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:56.680 I can understand about that of like when you have 0:14:56.880 --> 0:15:02.680 revealed your deepest, most unspeakable secret. I mean, first of all, 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:07.160 there is nothing more unspeakable than sexual abuse, especially when 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:09.920 you've come from a family where you are told your 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:13.560 entire life what you must never do is speak of something, 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:17.920 and then to share that, to reveal that, I think 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:21.760 there's like an automatic reaction to then want to protect 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:24.680 and defend and close up. I mean I even feel 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:28.000 that way, and I'm like therapized up the wazoo. But 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:32.360 when I have like a very vulnerable moment, there still 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.400 is the reaction afterwards to want to try to like 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:38.480 take it back or make a joke or do what 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:41.400 you know, there's a kind of a natural response to that. 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:45.240 And so in a way I understand where here's this 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:50.240 young man who's just revealed the most painful things and 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:53.240 the bravado of being like, I didn't you know, it 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:56.600 wasn't real. I don't remember what was said or what 0:15:56.720 --> 0:16:00.240 was actually said, but I understand the emotional response to 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:05.240 want to close up, take it back, defend after revealing 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:08.320 something so unbelievably painful. 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:09.760 Heart Yeah, because right after. 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:11.800 The murders day, I think the biggest thing that was, 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:13.840 you know, they went on the shopping sprees, they spent 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:14.520 all this money. 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:15.520 They were acting just. 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:17.880 So they were dumb kids. I mean, right, they were 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:21.440 also dumb kids. But I also feel like I did 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:27.359 so much research about Leslie and I just think she's incredible, 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:31.840 and I guess for me, it's like to believe that 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:36.800 also they were not abused, means essentially that you think 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:42.120 she made that story up. And from all of my 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:45.360 research about her, like people had opinions about her, she 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.080 was a real firecracker and not everybody liked her, but 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:53.760 nobody ever called in to question her integrity ever with 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:58.000 any of her clients throughout her career about having to 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.960 make up stories of their life, like she's not a snake. 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:05.200 She's so brilliant. It's like she's too smart to have 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:08.240 to make up something like that on their behalf. In 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:11.240 my personal belief and defense of her. 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:13.560 And did you have a lot of interaction with her? 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:17.640 With Leslie now, sadly I've not talked to her. 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:20.240 What are some other like surprising things that you learned 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:21.960 about her and doing the research. 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:24.720 Well, one thing that I think is really fun is 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:29.960 that Joan Didion and John Gregory Dunn, who's Dominic Dunn's brother, 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:33.840 were like her best friends. And so I feel like 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:37.200 when you find out that Joan Didion is her best friend, 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:40.000 you're like, well, she's definitely no snooze, you know, Like 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:44.040 that's it that like tells you about a person you know, 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:48.960 and she you know, she went to law school in 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:53.080 the late sixties as a single mother and drove a 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:59.359 yellow Corvette, and she came from Queen's and her grandmother 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:04.639 was a labor organizer and organizing and fighting against the man, 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.959 and they were like a family that fought and you know. 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:12.280 And then her there was like a her father basically 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.359 like completely her parents were divorced, but then her father 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:19.680 completely disappeared from her life. They thought that he had 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:23.159 moved to Florida to have another family, and it turned 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:26.879 out that he was living like a couple blocks away, 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.439 and she didn't speak to him for thirty four years. 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:34.080 Oh and then during the trial, during the first trial, 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:41.240 she reconnected with her father, adopted a baby, and her 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:44.679 mother died like all during the first trial, which is 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:45.840 crazy to think about. 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:50.159 Wow, it's amazing to think about people's lives, certain people's lives, 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:52.760 like you know, the backstory going to law school in 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:56.000 the sixties as a woman, just that alone, right, I 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:58.320 wonder what that was like in a yellow Corvette. I 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:00.560 wonder what kind of car Leslie Stall was driving at 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:01.040 that time. 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.000 I know, let's get Leslie Stall on the phone. 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:05.280 Early cars. 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:08.439 I reel like and when you go in, like when 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:11.320 you're playing such a character, because you want I mean, 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:14.040 I don't know, I'm not really an actor actor, So 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:17.640 when you're playing a character, you don't want to impersonate them, right, 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:19.320 You don't want to make a caricature. 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:22.200 You want to do your version of them. 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:27.000 Is that correct? Yes? Yes, I mean I definitely didn't. Yeah, 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:31.159 you don't want to do an impersonation. But also like 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:36.439 the juicyness of the opportunity of playing a real person, 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.640 being like I want to try to honor and get 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:43.640 down this person's essence and also you know, the rhythm 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:45.960 of how she spoke and where her voice was and 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.720 how she moves and all that stuff. But yeah, I 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:53.480 mean that was like the terror of working on it. 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:58.359 Myself and then showing up and you know, because I don't, like, 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:00.640 I don't work with a coach or anything. I do 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:04.440 this sort of like unconscious dream work that is its 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:08.600 own thing. But like I'd never heard myself do it 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:12.520 out loud basically until I showed up on set. I 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:16.199 mean I did it in the audition, but you know, auditions, 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:19.200 you're just kind of starting that process where you watch 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:22.119 like a couple videos and you know, I had listened 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:26.000 to her audio book, but yeah, I was so scared 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:28.280 because I was like, I don't know, am I doing 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:30.240