1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: Body backs with Joseph Scott Morgan my mother when I 2 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: guess I was it's probably two or three, you guys. 3 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,319 Speaker 1: I wasn't with her or my father, but my mother 4 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: and father attended the very first New Orleans Saints game, 5 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: and it was played in the old two Lane Stadium 6 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: in New Orleans, which is uptown New Orleans. It's actually 7 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: the old Sugar Bowl. That's where the Saints used to play. 8 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: People forget about that now that that stadium is gone, 9 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: ripped to the ground. It was a grand stadium too, 10 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: But you know, you can got to Lake Ponch Train 11 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: in the walk along the rip rap that they have 12 00:00:57,800 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: set up out there, the seawall they've built, and you'll 13 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: I'm across chunks of concrete that have seat numbers and 14 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: road numbers on them. And they demolished that old stadium 15 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: and built a seawall Idlake Ponch Train. It's kind of 16 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: a cool thing you go out there, But when I 17 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: think about how many disappointed people sat in those seats 18 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: for all of those years, and of course the Saints 19 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: eventually moved to the Supernome that they've been there. I 20 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: guess since seventy five. My family has always had an 21 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: attachment Saints, and you know it's carried on to this point. 22 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: My son does too. I mean, my son and I 23 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: actually go to games and we have an opportunity. Either 24 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: we'll drive to Atlanta or we'll go home to New 25 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: Orleans and go see games. And I've always been an 26 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: NFL Saints fan and really committed to it. And I 27 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: used to have when I was young, men I had buddies. 28 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: I would get together with him. We would watch these 29 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: games on Sunday afternoon waiting for a kickoff. Heck, I 30 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: even work cases that involved Saints games. Generally it was 31 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: somebody that got drunk and ran off the road. I've 32 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: had people kill one another over bets over the Saints game. 33 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: So it kind of, you know, intruded on my professional life. 34 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 1: But Saints We're always there. It's all we had in 35 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: New Orleans for many years. But today I want to 36 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,799 Speaker 1: talk about a group of guys that got together. They 37 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 1: got together for a game in their hometown in Kansas City, Missouri. 38 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: They got together at the house and there were four 39 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:45,119 Speaker 1: maybe five people there for this game playoff game. But 40 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: the thing about it is when me and my friends 41 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: set our final goodbyes. After Saints games, we'd watch one 42 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 1: another's homes we went home. In this particular case, three 43 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: of them never made it out alive. I'm Joseph Scott 44 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: Morgan and this is bottom packs David. I know you're 45 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 1: a baseball fan. I know you are. Were you ever 46 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: a football fan at all? Or is it just something 47 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: that just really wasn't on Europe? Strictly baseball guy. 48 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 2: I grew up where I rode my bicycle to where 49 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 2: the Los Angeles Rams had their training camp at Calcta 50 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 2: Fullerton as my dad actually played for the San Diego Chargers. 51 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: Holy smoke. Really, yeah, but you're back in the days 52 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: of Roman Gabriel. 53 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 2: Actually, Okay, when I was a kid, my eighth or ninth, 54 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 2: whatever year it was, I actually, for Christmas got a 55 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 2: Roman Gabriel jersey. I'm talking the Rams blue and white helmet. 56 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: That's one of the it's got to be one of 57 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: the coolest names in NFL history, by the way. But 58 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,119 Speaker 1: you're an Angel too, You're like Gabriel. 59 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was a big smokes yeah, huge, huge. 60 00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 3: Wow. 61 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: Well it's it's a I don't know, some people would 62 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: call it a fool's Errand for the Saints, but I 63 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: mean we turned it around. Man Drew Brees arguably one 64 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: of the greatest quarterbacks in history, in NFL history, and 65 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: just it's a culture down there. It's a way of life. 66 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: I can understand this idea of wanting to get together 67 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: with your buddies, yeah and swap stories, have a few drinks, 68 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 1: watch the game, you celebrate. You're up together and you're 69 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: down together. Right. 70 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 2: Think about this too. You know, with the Kansas City Chiefs, 71 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 2: they had pretty much fifty years of not winning. They 72 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 2: went to the Super Bowl in nineteen seventy, yeah, and 73 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 2: then didn't go back to his Super Bowl until twenty twenty. 74 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 2: That's a long time of not making it to the 75 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:52,239 Speaker 2: big Game. Until the last few years now, they've. 76 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: Been a powerhouse. They've absolutely been a powerhouse. They're electric 77 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: to see and you know, and their fans are loyal, 78 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 1: I mean very loyal. I mean, I got to tell you. 79 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: And this goes to these cases that we're actually talking about. 80 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,679 Speaker 1: They talk about lambeau Field, you know, being the frozen tundra, 81 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: but I'm not saying it is as cold. However, out 82 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: there on the planes in that western part of Missouri 83 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: where you know, it touches Kansas out there. It you 84 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: talk about bone chilling. I mean, it's one of those 85 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: things where you're going to find out who actually wants it. 86 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: You know, if you're going to be out there, you 87 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: can see these guys dressed in their their their deer 88 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: hunting clothes. You know where they you know where You've 89 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: got to be wrapped up. You've got to be out 90 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: there because the danger of exposure. And you know, you 91 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: get people that are inebriated there they don't have as 92 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: much self awareness perhaps or they get into the spirit 93 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: of the game and they're going on and on. You 94 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: gotta want it. But you know, in this case today, 95 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: these cases, I keep saying case, but my gosh, it's 96 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: and that's going to play into our conversation to day 97 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: Dave about this death investigation. 98 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 2: They gathered together at the guy's house to watch this 99 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 2: game between the Kansas City Chiefs and the Los Angeles Chargers. 100 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 2: It was a much closer game than anybody expected, but 101 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 2: it took place at three twenty five in the afternoon 102 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 2: for kickoff, great football time, and the guys were watching 103 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 2: at home and they had a great time watching. As 104 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 2: a matter of fact, at the end of the game, 105 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 2: Jordan Willis that he was the guy that invited everybody. 106 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,359 Speaker 1: To his house. Yeah, he's like the homeowner. 107 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, well the renter, he was renting the house. 108 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 2: But Jordan Willis invites these guys over. These are two 109 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 2: of the guys are his best friends from high school. 110 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 2: That's how long they've known one another. These are guys 111 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 2: now in their late thirties. They've known one another for 112 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 2: years and they've been Chiefs fans. And during the course 113 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 2: of this game, Jordan actually makes plans to get them 114 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 2: all tickets for a home game for the Chiefs. Granted, 115 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 2: Arrowhead Stadium holds seventy six thousand something, but it's a 116 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 2: tough get because you mentioned the loyalty of their fans. 117 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 2: They don't have a lot of seats open. They fill 118 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 2: seventy six thousand seats pretty regular. 119 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 1: You know. Well, I found out something interesting the other 120 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: day that this Erawhead Stadium there they I think they 121 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: had the loudest recording game ever. So the place is 122 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: it's nuts when you get everybody in there and it's electric. 123 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: But you know, when you're in somebody's home and you're warm, 124 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: that's the key here. You're warm, and you know you're 125 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: you're eating cocktail weenies and drinking beer and eating chips 126 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,239 Speaker 1: and doing whatever you do. It's a much more comfortable. 127 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: Maybe you got a fire go. 128 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 2: It was fairly moderate attempts that day. It got cold 129 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 2: over the next couple of nights, but that day on 130 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 2: the seventh when they all got together. It happened when 131 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 2: they got together on Sunday, January seventh for the Chargers 132 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 2: Chiefs game. I mentioned the game started at three twenty five, 133 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 2: so they'll call it three thirty and five men are 134 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 2: involved in the story today. Jordan Willis it was his 135 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 2: house that he invited the guys to come. The other 136 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 2: men that came again, two of the guys are best 137 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 2: friends from high school and another guy, David Harrington, is 138 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 2: thirty seven, Ricky Johnson thirty eight. Clayton mcghey is thirty six. 139 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 2: They haven't told his which too he went to high 140 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 2: school with. But they've all known one another for a 141 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 2: long time. Now. You said, I thought you said there 142 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 2: were five, Dave, you just mentioned four. All right. There 143 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 2: is a mystery person who was also there that day, 144 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: but he wasn't there during the game. From what I 145 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 2: can tell, Joe, I keep mentioning the start time because 146 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 2: this fifth anonymous person, this mystery person, didn't arrive until 147 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 2: seven o'clock. The game was over by seven. So you've 148 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 2: got Jordan Willis who. Jordan Willis is a scientist. He 149 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 2: has a background of working with AIDS research. He's won 150 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 2: awards for his research and his scientific abilities. This is 151 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 2: a very smart guy. And I don't know what the 152 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 2: other guys do. We know what happened to them, but 153 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 2: we don't know what they did in their you know. 154 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 2: But to give you an idea, they watch the game, 155 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 2: the game finishes, and they're hanging out, maybe having a 156 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 2: few adult beverages. And at some point in time, Jordan Willis, 157 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 2: who is his home. He falls asleep on the couch. 158 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 2: He says, the other guys the doors are unlocked. They're 159 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 2: going in and out doing whatever. And at some point 160 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 2: Jordan Willis wakes up on the couch. He doesn't see anybody, 161 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 2: and so he goes on up to bed. He's known 162 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 2: these guys for so long, Joe, that he's leaving his 163 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 2: door open. You know, they're unlocked. They can come and 164 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 2: go do whatever they want. But he's asleep, and so 165 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 2: he stays upstairs sleeping and he doesn't wake up. I 166 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 2: say he doesn't wake up because the next day, when 167 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 2: the three men don't go back home, they're grown men, 168 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 2: but they don't go back home Sunday night. Their friends 169 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 2: kind of mom and dad, other friends. Yeah, well they're 170 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 2: you know, hanging out. But when they don't show up 171 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 2: Monday and they're not returning calls or text, they're not 172 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 2: getting online, no social media, it's just silence from these guys, 173 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 2: from all four of these guys, Jordan includes. You've got 174 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 2: Jordan Willis and all the three guys. Nobody can get 175 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 2: in touch with any of them. All day Monday, all 176 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,319 Speaker 2: day Tuesday, still nothing. You've got people reaching out to 177 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 2: Jordan Willis on his social media asking, they're calling David Harrington, 178 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 2: Ricky Johnson, Clayton mcgheiney. Nobody is answering their phone, nobody 179 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 2: is returning to text, nobody is on social media. So finally, 180 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 2: Clayton mcghey, he's engaged. His fiance has her fill. She 181 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 2: can't wait anymore. She's done waiting. She goes over and 182 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 2: she's knocking on the door. She can't get Jordan Willis up. 183 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 2: She sees the cars. You're in the driveway, but nobody's 184 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 2: answering phones, nobody's answering the door. So she breaks into 185 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 2: the house. 186 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:50,439 Speaker 1: Joe. 187 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 2: She breaks into his house, is screaming his name, Jordan, Jordan, 188 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 2: where are you? What's going on? And she walks all 189 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 2: through the house and she sees on the back porch 190 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 2: a body. She calls police. It's just before ten o'clock 191 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 2: at night, and she asked them to come and do 192 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 2: a welfare check. When police show up, they find the 193 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 2: guy on the back porch is dead, and there are 194 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 2: now two others are out in the backyard dead. They 195 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 2: apparently have frozen to death. Joseph, Now I got to 196 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,959 Speaker 2: ask you, Joseph Scott Morgan. If you are in a 197 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 2: at a house with a friend, you can go in 198 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 2: and out as you please. How do you end up 199 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 2: freezing on the back porch or backyard? And how is 200 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 2: it possible that somebody inside the house Jordan Willis is 201 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 2: sleeping for what from Sunday night until Tuesday at nine 202 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 2: o'clock at night? Is it possible to sleep that long? 203 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: Something doesn't job? Okay, I mean, it's just I think 204 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 1: that everybody has come that's an obvious statement. But here's 205 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: the thing, Dave, I don't know. Okay, I'll put you 206 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: this way. The only times that I have ever worked 207 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: multiple deaths that were non gunfire related where it was 208 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: like a mass homicide or a homicide mass homicide slash suicide, 209 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: were when an individual was driving a car and you 210 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 1: had a bunch of friends in the car and they 211 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: all died. Okay, work worked a bunch of those. You've 212 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: got kind of a cause and effecting thing going on there. 213 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: I have worked cases with multiple deaths. One comes to mind, 214 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: in particular, where an entire family got gassed inside of 215 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: their house by carbon monoxide. They reversed the flow of 216 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: the heater exhaust on the thing, all went. They all 217 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,959 Speaker 1: died in their sleep in bed. But David, got to 218 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: tell you, what's so puzzling about this is the fact 219 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: that you've got three grown men in the prime of 220 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: their lives. These guys are in their thirties, all right, 221 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: and they're all dead in geographic proximity to one another. 222 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: And there are no answers. There are absolutely no answers 223 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: to this, and it gives you pause. And let me 224 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: ask you a question. Have you ever been hanging out 225 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: with buddies and maybe you're standing around the fire. Maybe 226 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: you don't even have a fire and it's in the 227 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 1: middle of the winter and you're outside talking. Is your 228 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: first inclination to continue to stay there and be cold, 229 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 1: or say let's build a fire and stand around the fire, 230 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: or is it? Guys? I love talking, but I gotta 231 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: tell you, I think I want to go back inside. 232 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: I want to get in my car and leave, because 233 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: at this time the game. 234 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 2: Is over with game has been over, you know, it 235 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 2: has been over. 236 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: And one report is saying that this mystery person that 237 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: has yet to be named, says he left the house. 238 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: And when he left the house, the resident of the house, 239 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: mister Willis, and the other three fellas were watching Jeopardy. 240 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: So at what point in time do they exit the 241 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: house wind up in the fence backyard with one man 242 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: lying on the porch, all dead and frozen. I guess 243 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: that's probably two years ago, now, two years, three years, 244 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: two years. I starred on an Oxygen special called Murdered 245 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: and Missing in Montana, and it involved three Native American 246 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: girls who in a couple of other that were peripherally 247 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: mentioned in this in this program, and they were found 248 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: one in particular, was found dead in the snow, and 249 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: she was partially unclothed. And of course, you know, when 250 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: we think about unclothing and we have a scene, we 251 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: think about, you know, some kind of sexual assault, particularly 252 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: as it applies to females. But you know, there's something 253 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: else that comes along with hypothermia, and it's called paradoxical undressing. 254 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: And the way this kind of plays out is that 255 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: hypothermia that condition, you know, where you're subjected to extremely 256 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: low temperatures your body. As your core body temperature begins 257 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: to drop, you become well, you become disoriented, you can 258 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: start to babble out of your mind. You might think 259 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: that you're hot though it's freezing cold, and you begin 260 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: to peel off layers of clothing, and it's called paradoxical undressing. 261 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: There's any number of things that begin to happen, but 262 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: your metabolism also begins to slow. And that's kind of 263 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: how hypothermia kills you. And I don't know that in 264 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: this case, because we don't have a lot of information 265 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: at this point in time that you had paradoxical undressing. 266 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: But I do know that hypothermia does cause people to 267 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: behave in peculiar ways. And that draws me back to 268 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: this question, Dave, Why in the world would somebody choose 269 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: to be cold, Because this is a choice that you're making. 270 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: You know, you are you being held against your will 271 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: to stand outside and be outside and be exposed to 272 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: the elements. There's something about this that just absolutely does 273 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: not make sense. 274 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 2: My friend, the whole thing, Joe, we're not getting the 275 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 2: whole story, that's all I. There's no way this can 276 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 2: be the whole story. The story that we're to believe, 277 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 2: that we're told is that four friends got together to 278 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,880 Speaker 2: watch a ball game. They're watching the game, game ends 279 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 2: and another guy shows up, fifth guy. We don't know. 280 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 2: He's anonymous. But the fifth guy leaves and all four 281 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 2: are still alive. But we're to believe that the owner, 282 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 2: the guy who's living in the home, he doesn't own 283 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 2: the home. The reason I say that is he moved out, Joe, 284 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 2: while this has been going on in the last couple 285 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 2: of weeks. He moved out that week because nobody believed 286 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 2: the story. They're like, you mean, you slept inside and 287 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 2: your three best friends died on the yard frozen. That 288 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 2: makes no sense, And so he moved out. He was 289 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 2: just renting. And so the bottom line is we're to 290 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 2: believe that he while his friends are freezing to death 291 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 2: out in the yard, he's in there, sleeping on the 292 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 2: couch or in his room and doesn't answer any messages 293 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 2: or anything for two days, two and a half days, 294 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 2: and then finally he gets woken up when the fiance 295 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 2: comes by and he greets her or greets the cop. 296 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 2: When the cop shows up to do the welfare check. 297 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 2: After the fiance calls, he greets her an underwear and 298 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 2: a wineglass. Yeah that he answers the cop. He's you know, 299 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 2: asleep this whole time, doesn't wake up until the cop 300 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 2: shows up. And when the cop is there, he's wearing 301 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 2: his underwear and he's got a wine glass, like he 302 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 2: just woke up. 303 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: I get to hang on. I got to tell you something, man. Look, 304 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: the only time I've ever known someone to absolutely sleep 305 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: for I don't know. We are we talking forty eight hours? 306 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: Forty eight hours? I mean, actually it's a little bit 307 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: over forty eight hours. If you're if you're stating, if 308 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: you're putting forth this as as a factual statement, not you, 309 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: but this fellow that's making a statement if if he 310 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: is actually saying, yeah, I've slept for forty eight straight hours. Man, 311 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: I have been I've been really sick before and couldn't 312 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: get my head up off the pillow, But I was 313 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: not out forty eight straight hours. I have seen people 314 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: that were so wasted that they were almost comatose with 315 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: whatever substance they had in their body, they could sleep 316 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: for a protracted period of time. But how are you 317 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: absent so much self awareness that you are going to 318 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: sleep for forty eight straight hours without there being another 319 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: factor involved in what's surrounding you and what's going on 320 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 1: within this home. You know's if he's this plugged in 321 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,640 Speaker 1: as this brilliant research scientist, I would assume he's got 322 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: a job. I would assume that people would be missing 323 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 1: him at his work. I would assume that he's got 324 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: other friends and colleagues. Why are you not responding to 325 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: their calls or their queries about your location? Not to 326 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: mention these guys who from what you had told me, 327 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: all of these guys they had of people that were 328 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: looking for them, They had, you know, friends that scratching 329 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: their heads like this is this is not normal? They're 330 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: they're normally Johnny on the spot. 331 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 2: Well, that's what I'm asking Joe. Now, let me ask 332 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 2: you this question. How do how is it possible for 333 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 2: somebody to when they're when they're close enough to be inside, 334 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 2: but they remained outside and freeze to death. Let's just 335 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 2: start there. Three guys are dead outside. Now, we know 336 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 2: that the home there, that the fiance was able to 337 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 2: break into the home. We know this because she did so, 338 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 2: regardless of what Jordan Willis is doing inside the house asleep. 339 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 2: Whatever you're gonna tell me that these three other guys 340 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:44,679 Speaker 2: in their late thirties could not figure out how to 341 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 2: get back in the house. 342 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: I can't. I will never buy that. I don't know 343 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 1: how that would be possible, because I got to tell you, 344 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,439 Speaker 1: if I would think that any right thinking person that 345 00:20:55,640 --> 00:21:00,199 Speaker 1: was in their right mind, you're gonna find a to 346 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: find a fence to jump over. You're gonna find some 347 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: means to get out of that backyard. I mean, kick 348 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 1: the kick the back door open. If you're if you're 349 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: locked out and you can't get anybody come to. I 350 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: got to tell you if I'm if I'm out there 351 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 1: and I have an awareness that I am, and here's 352 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: the key. I have an awareness that I'm getting cold, 353 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 1: and it's getting colder. I'm gonna find shelter. I mean, 354 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: it's a it's a basic We're back to Maslow's from right, 355 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: you know, from sociology one oh one. You know where 356 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: the basic needs. You know that they talk about shelter 357 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: is one of those things to be closed, to be warmed. 358 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: That's a basic need. So it it begs the question, 359 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: how in the world is an individual inhibited to that point? 360 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 1: Even more so, how are three individuals inhibited from making 361 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: the decision that is so critical for them to seek 362 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 1: shelter and for them to get out of the elements, 363 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: for them to call somebody or you know, have your 364 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: car key's been taken up? That you know, that's the 365 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: one thing that the fiance said when she rolled up, 366 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 1: the vehicles were in the street. They the cars are 367 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,919 Speaker 1: out there, which is again another head scratcher. You know, 368 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 1: no one's moved the cars. They're out there, So what 369 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: does that tell you, Well, it's not like, you know, 370 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: someone stole the cars and ran away with them. If 371 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 1: the cars are there, For most guys that are car owners, 372 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: they're going to be there. That just stands to reason 373 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: they didn't go off with someone else, and then for 374 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: her on her on her own, to walk through the 375 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,360 Speaker 1: structure a place that is not her own. She obviously, 376 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: you know they've been friends, The men have all been friends. 377 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: She obviously knows this guy. She knew where to go. 378 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: Can you imagine her shocking horror by looking out of 379 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: that window and seeing that dead body out there on 380 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: that back porch. It'd be it. It would just drive 381 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: me to madness, I think, particularly considering her fiance is 382 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: one of them out there in that backyard. 383 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 2: Dave, And I don't understand the welfare check that the 384 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 2: police were called to do a welfare check, Joe, What 385 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 2: does that mean? What it's a welfare check? If again, 386 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 2: the story is that she came into the house, She 387 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 2: broke into the house, is screaming for Jordan Willis, who 388 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 2: doesn't wake up. She sees the body on the back 389 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 2: porch and calls police to do a welfare check. 390 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't understand the verbiage there, because I got 391 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: to tell you if I there's a huge gulf between 392 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: a welfare check and finding a dead body. Because most 393 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: people that get on to a nine to one one call, 394 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 1: they don't request a welfare check if they've got a 395 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: dead body. You know what they say, I found a 396 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:52,479 Speaker 1: dead body, Get out here asap, Bring everybody you know. 397 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 1: And she's she's already been screaming and crying out for 398 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: her boyfriend, her fiance. I can only imagine you're talking 399 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: about really ramping things up when she sees this individual 400 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 1: laying on the back porch deceeased. You know, how much 401 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: more is this beginning to escalate? So maybe you know, 402 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: maybe the police are interpreting this as a welfare check, 403 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 1: but this is not a traditional welfare check. Welfare check 404 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: generally occurs when you have someone that's missing, you can't 405 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,360 Speaker 1: get somebody to come to the door, and you think 406 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: they're in danger, you call the cops and they will 407 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 1: walk around the house. They'll tap on the windows, they'll 408 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: ask questions of the people that call the thing in, 409 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: and if the police can judge at that moment in time, 410 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: if they think that it's a public safety issue, they'll 411 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: go ahead and knock the door in. I've seen them 412 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: do it. And then they go in and they find 413 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 1: dead bodies or a dead body. But even the language 414 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 1: in this thing is so bizarre. But I know this. 415 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: When those cops walked into that backyard, they had the surprise. 416 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 3: Of their life. 417 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: You never know what you're going to walk into when 418 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: you're death investigated, because generally the call will come from 419 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: one of two places. In my experience, it either comes 420 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 1: from a nine to one one operator that has been 421 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:35,640 Speaker 1: instructed to call you, or maybe headquarters headquarters the radio operator, 422 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: which those two things are kind of separate, but I've 423 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: gotten calls from both of them. Or you'll have a 424 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: police officer at the scene and it could either be 425 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: a uniformed police officer or a detective and they'll call 426 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: the office directly and say we need you out here. 427 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: In this particular case, when the Medical Examiner's Office was 428 00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:02,360 Speaker 1: alerted in Kansas City, I can only imagine because it's 429 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: not like, you know, Kansas City doesn't know its own 430 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: level of death and violence and all that stuff. It happens. 431 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 1: You know, it's a big city. People that work for 432 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,479 Speaker 1: the Emmy and the Corner's office out there in that region, 433 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: they have experience with brutal homicides. They deal with multiple deaths. 434 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: But you know, buddy, I tell you, when you roll 435 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: out on a scene and you've got people lying about. 436 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: You don't see shellcasings, you don't see blood, you don't 437 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 1: see anything except three grown men. I got to tell you. 438 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,439 Speaker 1: It would even give the most stalwart among us that 439 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: are death investigators, cause to pause for a moment, scratch 440 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: our heads a little bit. 441 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 2: Here's my concern or curiosity. Jordan Willis is an HIV 442 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 2: researcherran protein scientist who lives and works from his home 443 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 2: in Kansas City, Missouri, where this party took place. Football party. 444 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 2: He is an accomplished scientist. Joe research into COVID HIV 445 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 2: been praised in the medical world. This guy, like I said, 446 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 2: an accomplished scientist. So he works from home and obviously 447 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 2: has a job. Now. He has two pitbull mixes that, 448 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 2: according to his social media are the loves of his life, 449 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 2: Sadie and Daisy. But for some reason, Sadie and Daisy 450 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 2: were staying at his dad's house that night, so Sadie, 451 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 2: he had no reason to take the dogs out. This 452 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 2: goes back to why didn't you get up? You were 453 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 2: in bed for two days? He had that, Oh, I 454 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 2: didn't have my dogs. There was no reason to open 455 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 2: the door, no reason to go out. So again a 456 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 2: grown man in his late thirties sleeping for two days. 457 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 2: We've got three men whose family is trying to reach them. 458 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 2: One of them's engaged, one of them has three children. 459 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 2: Ricky Johnson has three children of his own. Ricky Johnson, 460 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 2: his dad has really come into play. And Ricky's thirty eight, 461 00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 2: has three children, and his dad says, I'm not going 462 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 2: to say that during a game he didn't have some drinks, 463 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 2: but he wasn't irresponsible that he was going to go 464 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:11,360 Speaker 2: outside and freeze to death. You're talking about three grown men. 465 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 2: If he was out there just freezing, like they said, 466 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 2: he could have kicked out a window to get into 467 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 2: the house. Sounds right to me. 468 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's that's the same conclusion I think 469 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 1: I've come to. I think you have come to. 470 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 2: Here's what Ricky's mom, you know what she said. 471 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:28,880 Speaker 1: What's up? 472 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 2: Seriously, these were responsible for men. How do they go 473 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 2: in a backyard and freeze to death, all three of them? 474 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 2: Something that comes to my mind. This guy, Jordan Willis 475 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 2: wants to brag about how smart he is. He's a scientist. 476 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,239 Speaker 2: My thoughts are that he concocted something and gave it 477 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 2: to all three men. How could this have happened? Cool? 478 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 2: Is it possible that these four guys and ial Jordan 479 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 2: Willison to this, that they all took something concocted by 480 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 2: one under all of them and a party favor so 481 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 2: much so that it knock Jordan will Is out. But 482 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 2: he happened to be inside and fell asleep. The other 483 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 2: three guys don't realize what they've taken, and they're out, 484 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 2: you know, doing whatever guys do, having fun, and all 485 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 2: of a sudden, whatever the concoction has, hits them and 486 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 2: now they're out of it. They can't make sense of things. Poof, 487 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 2: they're out where they stand right And Jordan wakes up 488 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 2: two and a half days later, pretty much with the 489 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 2: police officer standing over him. The other guy's are outside, 490 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 2: innocent deaths created by some kind of concoction. Is that 491 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 2: a possibility? 492 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, nothing is off the table at this point. Tom. 493 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: And I gotta let me ask you a question, Dave, 494 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: because I know that I think I remember you saying 495 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: this when he responded, this, Willis fellow to the police. 496 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: He showed up and his boxer's holding a wine glass. 497 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 2: He did not wake up. He did not wake up 498 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 2: when Clayton mcgheiney's girlfriend fiance came through the house. She 499 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 2: breaks because nobody's answering the door. She's yelling his name, Jordan, 500 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 2: Willis Jordan, screaming for him. Now, his attorney says that 501 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 2: he fell asleep with his headphones on. He has noise 502 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 2: canceling headphones and he fell asleep with those on. Remind you, 503 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 2: this is after nine o'clock on January ninth. These guys 504 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 2: started there during the Chiefs game Sunday afternoon. That would 505 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 2: be the seventh, January seventh, so we've got two full 506 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 2: days plus some and Jordan is not awake when she 507 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 2: gets there. The police come in and obviously they're gonna 508 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:41,719 Speaker 2: come in. They're gonna find the guys. They're gonna look 509 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 2: around for him, because they can only account for three 510 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 2: of the four guys that she knows are there. Where's Jordan? 511 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 2: He and he's asleep. He comes down wearing his boxers 512 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 2: with a glass of wine. Now they clarified this later on, 513 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 2: saying there was no wine in the glass. It was 514 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 2: a wine a glass that had had wine in it, 515 00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 2: but it had water in it. He had just woken 516 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 2: up though, Going on ten o'clock on the ninth, party 517 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 2: on the seventh, waking up on the ninth Holy smokes. 518 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you think about the depth and breadth 519 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: of this where it could go. Uh and listen, like 520 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: you said, there is no way at this stage that 521 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: you should ever rule out anything and the medical examiner listen. 522 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: I don't like. One thing I absolutely despise is not 523 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: having not having specific answers that are coming to me 524 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: from from the body where it's presenting with some type 525 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: of non trauma or evidence of maybe drug abuse, h 526 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: where it's so glaring that I can, I can, I'll 527 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: have something to at least hang my intellectual hat on 528 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: at that moment. Tom And they're gonna they're gonna look 529 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: at everything, you know, when they when they go to 530 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: examine these three fellows, which I got to tell you 531 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 1: one thing that's kind of eating in the back of 532 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: my mind right now. You said that he's left the house, 533 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: But I really wonder what type of examination was conducted 534 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: on Jordan Willis the living individual. Did they spend time 535 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: with him down at headquarters taking a statement from him, 536 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: or did they take the statement there in the house. 537 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 2: His attorney. His attorney said that Jordan Willis accompanied them 538 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 2: to the police station and without an attorney, talked to 539 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 2: them for as long as they wanted, and they were 540 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 2: satisfied enough that they have announced this is one hundred 541 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 2: percent not a homicide investigation. There's no wrongdoing. This was 542 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 2: not a murder. But yeah, he has actually talked to 543 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 2: police on his own without an attorney. 544 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: President And yeah, I maybe that's the case. And look, 545 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: I'm not hoping for anything specific other than answers, right, 546 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: you know, I'm not gonna sit here and hope that 547 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: it's this or hope that it's that. I just you know, 548 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: we need answers in order. 549 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 2: Three guys dive the backyard frozen to death. What are 550 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 2: you going to find as an examiner? What are you 551 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 2: going to find? Is there going to be a difference 552 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 2: between the guy found on the porch and the two 553 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 2: guys found in the yard? 554 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: Potentially, Yeah, there could be, dependent upon their position and 555 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: how well their bodies each body was protected from the elements. 556 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: If you're laying against a house, now, if you're if 557 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: you're just laying or sitting on an open structure, it 558 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: doesn't afford much protection. Now if you're you know, if 559 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: you're sitting or laying on the ground. You're not. Also, 560 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: you're not dealing with just the ambient air changes. You're 561 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: also dealing with with the temperature that is emanating up 562 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: from the ground itself, you know, because ground actually will 563 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: hole cold, and that's going to impact your appearance to 564 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: a great degree or how you're going to present. I 565 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 1: think the key is what type of what type of 566 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:20,879 Speaker 1: evidence did they find on the bodies that indicated that 567 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: this that these are hypothermic deaths, because we you know, 568 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: we we've heard them say that they were frozen in 569 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: the backyard. All right, Okay, I'm with you, the bodies 570 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,839 Speaker 1: were frozen. Saying a body is frozen is not the 571 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,879 Speaker 1: same as saying that somebody froze to death. It's completely 572 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: two different things. All right, So, yeah, bodies will freeze. 573 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: They do freeze. I've worked on frozen bodies. One guy 574 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 1: in particular, we had to thaw him out for two 575 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: days I think before we could do an autopsy on him. 576 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,840 Speaker 1: Came off of a ship of a deep freeze. He 577 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 1: was a homicide victim. So it takes a while many 578 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: times to have access to these bodies. But here's the thing. 579 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: Anything any evidence that was there in the body. I 580 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: think because of the fact that these individuals' bodies were frozen. 581 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: I'm not saying they froze to death. That moment is 582 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: literally frozen in time. So depended upon how deep to 583 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:32,839 Speaker 1: the core this freezing went with their bodies, I would 584 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: assume that they were able to do the autopsies pretty quickly, 585 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 1: and they will have drawn fluids from every region of 586 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:43,320 Speaker 1: the body to bile vitreous from the eyes, urine, certainly, 587 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 1: blood obviously that'll come directly out of the heart, and 588 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: all of these elements are going to be thoroughly examined, 589 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: because what I'm hearing right now is that, look, you 590 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: said a mouthful just a second ago. The police have 591 00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 1: stated very clearly that they're not investigating this as a homicide. 592 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 1: So if that's the case, are you telling me that 593 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: three people spontaneously fell over dead in this location, Because 594 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: if you're not investigating as a homicide, and let's just 595 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,760 Speaker 1: let's just travel with this, let's go down this this 596 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 1: this line of logic here with some kind of agent 597 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,279 Speaker 1: that may have been in a drink or something that 598 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: they took, whoever facilitated that. If that were the case, 599 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: you're looking at a triple homicide. Potentially, it might be 600 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: it might be an accidental event. It might you know, 601 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,319 Speaker 1: it could be a negligent thing. But how, how, how 602 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: in the in the world can anybody explain this other 603 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: than somebody had a hand in it. I don't think 604 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: there was lightning that day. I don't think this was 605 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: a spontaneous lightning strike that drove all of these guys 606 00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 1: to their knees at that moment time and killed them 607 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: all spontaneously. I don't think there was a gas attack 608 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,800 Speaker 1: in that area, you know, or a leaking gas. 609 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 2: When John Belushi died of an accidental drug overdose of 610 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:19,319 Speaker 2: a heroin cocaine speedball, they arrested Kathy Evelyn Smith, the girl, 611 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,359 Speaker 2: the woman who actually acquired the drugs Gordon Leifput's former life, 612 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,320 Speaker 2: and she actually supplied the drugs that killed John Belushi, 613 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 2: And she was charged and actually spent time in jail 614 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 2: because she did an interview with the National Inquirer saying 615 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,360 Speaker 2: she was with him when it happened, and they actually 616 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,400 Speaker 2: did charge her with a crime and convict her. In 617 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,759 Speaker 2: this particular case, is there a drug that all these 618 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 2: guys could have taken, like mbma that can cause your 619 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,719 Speaker 2: body to feel warmer than it actually is. That would 620 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 2: allow you to be out in the elements and ignore 621 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,799 Speaker 2: the elements to the point where as the drug is 622 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 2: having its effect on you that you're physically being chilled 623 00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 2: to the point where you're incapacitated. 624 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 1: It could, but I've got a better candidate. I mean, 625 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,239 Speaker 1: and it's kind of the elephant in the room all 626 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:14,320 Speaker 1: over the country right now. If these guys were exposed 627 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 1: to something like fentanyl. It's the amount that it takes 628 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: to push someone off into eternity. It's so minuscule compared 629 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 1: to a lot of other drugs, and it can happen 630 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: so quickly. It's not even an idea of you don't 631 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,439 Speaker 1: perceive yourself as cold, or you don't perceive that you're 632 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 1: losing body heat, or you don't perceive that maybe I 633 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: need to go in and get sheltered. I'm not saying 634 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,880 Speaker 1: that it is fentanyl, but what I'm saying is it 635 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: would have to be something that would literally knock three 636 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:04,919 Speaker 1: grown men, and I mean, like right where they stand, Dave. 637 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 1: I've had people that I've worked drug ods where people 638 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:15,840 Speaker 1: have injected these are heroin addicts that have injected, have 639 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 1: shot up after they have detoxed, and they've used either 640 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,280 Speaker 1: a hot load or a bolus to the same size, 641 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,800 Speaker 1: that is the same size that they would use prior 642 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 1: to detoxing, and have found them literally with needles sticking 643 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 1: out of their arm or holding the hypodermic needle because 644 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 1: it happens so quickly, there's nothing. It's like standing in 645 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,359 Speaker 1: the way of a freight train and your feet are 646 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 1: cemented to the tracks. Can't get out of the way up, 647 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 1: you can't get out of the way of it. And 648 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,920 Speaker 1: for me right now, if they're saying that there's no trauma, 649 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:53,720 Speaker 1: which I haven't heard that yet, but if there's no trauma, 650 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,279 Speaker 1: you don't have gunshot wounds, you don't have bludgeonings, you 651 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,319 Speaker 1: don't have any sharp force injuries. The answers to all 652 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,399 Speaker 1: of these questions that everybody has in this case out 653 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,880 Speaker 1: of Kansas City, it's gonna lie in the toxicology and 654 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,319 Speaker 1: I can tell you this, We're going to follow up 655 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 1: in this case. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is 656 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 1: body Backs