Speaker 1: M Hi, everyone, Welcome to Packers Unscripted from Packers dot Com.
Speaker 1: I am Mike Spofford, sitting alongside my trusted colleague Wes Hodkowitz,
Speaker 1: were coming to you here from our studios at lambeau Field.
Speaker 1: Excuse me, certainly. Hope you all enjoyed your holiday weekend.
Speaker 1: But west some sad news came through Packer Land over
Speaker 1: this Memorial Day weekend. And I'm talking about, of course,
Speaker 1: the passing of the great, the legendary Bart Star, Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame quarterback, former Packers head coach. And if there's
Speaker 1: a Hall of Fame for human beings, he would certainly
Speaker 1: be in it, and a first ballot Hall of Famer,
Speaker 1: I think in that respect. Just your reflections on the
Speaker 1: new was regarding Bart Starr and any interactions you may
Speaker 1: or may not have had with him over the years. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know. It's so it's interesting, Michael. I woke up
Speaker 1: on Sunday morning and got the news through our message
Speaker 1: and channels that Bart had passed. And it's difficult because,
Speaker 1: I mean, everyone knows what Bart was dealing with the
Speaker 1: last four four and a half years. He really fought,
Speaker 1: He fought every single day, He fought to get back
Speaker 1: for Brett Farve's Jersey retirement. He fought to be able
Speaker 1: to be here for the fiftieth anniversary of the Ice Bowl,
Speaker 1: and every single day it was about, you know, his
Speaker 1: passion for life helping. It really strikes you, and it
Speaker 1: caused me to do a lot of reflection. We we
Speaker 1: got a Cliff Crystals wonderful oh Bit, which is on
Speaker 1: Packers dot Com right now, got sent through and our boss,
Speaker 1: Duke Boberum said, you know, headline, subhead We do that
Speaker 1: for every story to much and you mentioned legend at
Speaker 1: the beginning. We're always so very careful to use that term.
Speaker 1: But as I was trying to figure out exactly what
Speaker 1: the title should be for that oh bit, nothing else
Speaker 1: really seemed sufficient. It just seemed like he was one
Speaker 1: of those people there were that term fit. He was
Speaker 1: everything he did as he was a Hall of Fame quarterback,
Speaker 1: As I said, he was a legendary leader. Everything him
Speaker 1: and his wife Cherry did, they did together. And I
Speaker 1: don't know, Michael, it was one of those deals where
Speaker 1: he's gone, but the impact that he has now, the
Speaker 1: lives that he's touched a few people in the world,
Speaker 1: they are able to ever accomplish that Bart Star was
Speaker 1: truly somebody special. Yeah, I mean, and just reading as
Speaker 1: you put together over the weekend the excuse me Insider
Speaker 1: Inbox column for Monday morning, where you gave a few
Speaker 1: thoughts and just kind of stepped aside. And I'm sure
Speaker 1: there were a lot of missions to the inbox to
Speaker 1: sift through, but you just posted a lot of people's
Speaker 1: reflections and some of the stories in there of you know,
Speaker 1: and their stories that a lot of people have heard.
Speaker 1: But the thing is, you know, for each individual who
Speaker 1: you know encountered that you know, well, no, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to sign an autograph on a cocktail napkin. Give
Speaker 1: me your name and address, and you know, next week
Speaker 1: I'll mail you an autograph picture. Bart did that for
Speaker 1: countless Packers fans. And one of the things I do
Speaker 1: know about him too from people that I've talked to,
Speaker 1: is that he personalized every single autograph. He would put
Speaker 1: your name on it, you know, and and then obviously
Speaker 1: signed it. He did that for a couple of reasons.
Speaker 1: One because that's partly his personality. He wanted to get
Speaker 1: to know and he would try to remember anybody's name
Speaker 1: that that he would meet, along the way. But it
Speaker 1: was also his way of saying, I'm not giving you
Speaker 1: this autograph so that you can just go sell it
Speaker 1: on eBay as a Bart Star autograph. He personalized every
Speaker 1: autographed because it was for that individual and for that person.
Speaker 1: And those are just a couple of things. Those are
Speaker 1: just the little things when when you read through, if
Speaker 1: you have a chance to read through Monday's Insider inbox,
Speaker 1: com a lot of really great reflections from from fans
Speaker 1: there um and uh, a lot of really just really
Speaker 1: touching stories of small but meaningful interactions with an individual
Speaker 1: like Bart Star. And that's the thing at Bottoms. Any
Speaker 1: interaction you had with the guy, he made it meaningful,
Speaker 1: he did. I really enjoyed your talking about how he
Speaker 1: personalized everything. There was one comment or uh in the
Speaker 1: inbox that had mentioned that he had written him about
Speaker 1: this group of friends that he had uh and and
Speaker 1: was you know, basically just kind of making small chat,
Speaker 1: you know, just typically like you'd send a letter to
Speaker 1: someone you idolize, especially way back when when you didn't
Speaker 1: have those social media era and Star wrote back, and
Speaker 1: I think he was He signed football cards for each
Speaker 1: one of the kids, even though it was just the
Speaker 1: one kid. He had personalized footpunk for every single child.
Speaker 1: And the other thing that really struck me. And I
Speaker 1: don't know how much you know obviously with the men
Speaker 1: Memorial Day Week and how much you're on social media,
Speaker 1: but the amount of people Michael that tweeted out photos
Speaker 1: with Star when they were children. Uh, you know, Steve
Speaker 1: Mariucci had a wonderful tribute. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: caught that on NFL network and a photo of him
Speaker 1: actually at a Packers training camp. I think it was
Speaker 1: in X three or something like that, because you know
Speaker 1: his family, they weren't able to afford to go to
Speaker 1: Packer games, so their big trip was going down for
Speaker 1: training camp and then lo and behold, Steve Miriuchi becomes
Speaker 1: the quarterbacks coach for Brett farven Is. Suddenly, you know,
Speaker 1: right there having conversations with bart stars childhood idol. I
Speaker 1: think it's really important for people to really you don't
Speaker 1: really have to be a professional athlete to be able
Speaker 1: to appreciate this, but it's about doing things for people,
Speaker 1: no matter how small. You don't know who that kid
Speaker 1: that's four or five, six years old is gonna end
Speaker 1: up being. I think it was it was a Zion Williams.
Speaker 1: Is that that the duke basketball Williamson Williamson. Sorry, I'm
Speaker 1: not a big basketball fan, but he had mentioned a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago too, he signs an autograph for
Speaker 1: every kid he comes across because he was that kid,
Speaker 1: and he had professional athletes turned him down. There are
Speaker 1: so many people, Michael, in that simple gesture of star
Speaker 1: doing that that became better children, better husband's, better wives,
Speaker 1: better human beings. If we had more bart stars in
Speaker 1: this world. It's a cliche, but it truly would be
Speaker 1: a better place. And what him and Cherry did in
Speaker 1: their extensive efforts in Green Bay, he did a lot
Speaker 1: of great things with Vincelentbardi. You don't take any of
Speaker 1: those away, but it's what he did afterwards that made
Speaker 1: him the ambassador that he was and truly made him, Uh,
Speaker 1: as you said, a Hall of Fame human being. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just it's emotional. It's emotional. Think about it. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: In your sports writing career, did you ever have an
Speaker 1: opportunity to interact with Never interviewed him, but a very
Speaker 1: good friend of mine. You know, here's the thing, is
Speaker 1: I got onto the beat um part already was starting
Speaker 1: to there was some rumblings with some of the health
Speaker 1: issues he was already sharing with two thousand and fourteen.
Speaker 1: Obviously has a stroke and and and whatnot. But Mike
Speaker 1: vander Moss, my mentor, uh, someone I hold in really
Speaker 1: high regard. He interviewed Star a lot, and I heard
Speaker 1: a lot of the stories through him. It's it's so funny.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just hearing it through my grandfather and
Speaker 1: in his experience as him a player and talking to
Speaker 1: guys like Mike who interacted with him. And the other
Speaker 1: thing is too. I remember when Pete Doherty, my former
Speaker 1: colleague at the Press Becauette, went down an interview him.
Speaker 1: I think, honestly it was probably one of his last
Speaker 1: interviews that he conducted, maybe the last down in Alabama.
Speaker 1: Sat down with him, and just the way that that
Speaker 1: operation was run. He had a secretary and it was
Speaker 1: it was just like a small business that they had there.
Speaker 1: I mean, you just called that up. Okay, here's Bart
Speaker 1: Star and he set it up. He went down and
Speaker 1: interviewed him, and just the humility that he showed, the graciousness.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of people that reached down inbox too. Saying,
Speaker 1: you know, they interviewed him as a young radio personality
Speaker 1: or a writer, and just how gracious he was in
Speaker 1: those settings when he did not have to be. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Bart start once he was, once he made it, he
Speaker 1: didn't have to do all that stuff. I think that's
Speaker 1: my biggest takeaway from this is that he had this
Speaker 1: great line about how the true mark of a man,
Speaker 1: the true mark of a human being, is how you
Speaker 1: treat people when they can do nothing for you, and
Speaker 1: Bart stars somebody that really gave back in that way. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: fortunately I did have an opportunity to interview him two
Speaker 1: times over the phone. I did meet him once in
Speaker 1: person as well later on. But when I met him,
Speaker 1: or when I came about him, um, I met him,
Speaker 1: he was he came to Green Bay and I'm trying
Speaker 1: to remember exactly what it was. It was. It was
Speaker 1: for some sort of a street naming type of thing
Speaker 1: that was that was going on, And I just I
Speaker 1: had interviewed him on the phone a couple of times
Speaker 1: in a couple of years prior, and he didn't necessarily
Speaker 1: remember me, and that was okay, But he didn't remember
Speaker 1: Mike Spofford well. But having had an opportunity to talk
Speaker 1: to him on the phone. I wanted to. I wanted
Speaker 1: to just introduce myself for a brief moment. But it's
Speaker 1: interesting because the first time I did get a chance
Speaker 1: to interview him on the phone, I felt really horrible
Speaker 1: about it because what it was. It was after his
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame center, Jim Ringo had died and uh no,
Speaker 1: it's two thousand seven. Actually it was two thousand and seven.
Speaker 1: It was my second year here with Packers dot Com
Speaker 1: and Lo and Behold. I actually, and very unfortunately, ended
Speaker 1: up being the one who informed him that Jim Ringo
Speaker 1: had died. He didn't know, and I was making some
Speaker 1: phone calls to write a story reflecting on Ringo's career
Speaker 1: in his life and all that, and I felt really
Speaker 1: really bad about it. He was as expected, He was
Speaker 1: extremely gracious about it. But what I remember the most
Speaker 1: is that after our brief conversation, I didn't want to
Speaker 1: hold him up on the phone too long. I just
Speaker 1: wanted a couple of thoughts on Ringo's career. But I
Speaker 1: could tell that as I was getting ready to say
Speaker 1: goodbye and hang up the phone own he was getting
Speaker 1: ready with his whole list of phone calls that he
Speaker 1: was going to make so that none of his other
Speaker 1: former teammates were going to find out about Ringo the
Speaker 1: way he just did, you know what, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Yeah, like he he was. He felt badly
Speaker 1: that that the news hadn't maybe spread as quickly as
Speaker 1: it should have about a Hall of Fame teammate. And
Speaker 1: as I said, I felt badly about about being the
Speaker 1: one to tell him the good news. Is then later
Speaker 1: that season, I got another chance to call him, and
Speaker 1: it was when he was going to be coming up
Speaker 1: to Green Bay to be the honorary captain for the
Speaker 1: two thousand seven NFC Championship game, you know, the second
Speaker 1: Ice Bowl, so to speak, against the New York Giants.
Speaker 1: And what I remember most about that conversation, aside from
Speaker 1: the fact that Bart was absolutely totally convinced the Packers
Speaker 1: were going to the Super Bowl and there was no
Speaker 1: way the Giants were going to come into a freezing
Speaker 1: cold lambeau Field and beat the Green Bay Packers. Unfortunately
Speaker 1: it didn't work out that way. But what I took
Speaker 1: away the most from that conversation is how much he
Speaker 1: was absolutely relishing in the team's success and that there
Speaker 1: was again this sort of mini revival of the team
Speaker 1: after some down years and the coaching change to to
Speaker 1: Mike McCarthy and Mike McCarthy and Brett Farve. We're, you know,
Speaker 1: we're we're pushing the Packers back into prominence once again.
Speaker 1: And he was absolutely loving every minute of it. He
Speaker 1: really really enjoyed it. And it wouldn't have mattered if
Speaker 1: it was going to be twenty degrees or negative twenty
Speaker 1: degrees that day to be able to walk out for
Speaker 1: the coin toss for the NFC Championship game for his
Speaker 1: Green Bay Packers at lambeau Field. He was really looking
Speaker 1: forward to, you know, coming up from Alabama that day
Speaker 1: to do that. That's why I wrote an inbox. I
Speaker 1: think it was in the Tuesday one. A lot of
Speaker 1: things happened this weekend um that to me, for my money,
Speaker 1: him and Jerry Kramer are the greatest ambassadors of Packers football.
Speaker 1: I couldn't again. I would love to get Cliffs perspective
Speaker 1: on that. But the reason I said it as a
Speaker 1: thirty something now is the fact that Star and c
Speaker 1: are the ones that tied generations together. It wasn't just
Speaker 1: about what they did in the sixties or their Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame careers or anything of that sort. It was
Speaker 1: the fact that you know, I'm sure your son knows
Speaker 1: about him. My son is going to know about him.
Speaker 1: There are so many people that have been touched by
Speaker 1: him in the spans of generations. Grandfather's father's son, daughters.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it's incredible, Michael, when you think
Speaker 1: about that, because sometimes we lose history, right, But there
Speaker 1: was something about bart Star and the fact that he
Speaker 1: had that appreciation for Packer's history and what it stood
Speaker 1: for and what this organization meant that it made it
Speaker 1: really easy for anybody, regardless of your age, to just
Speaker 1: respect what that man was all about. His legacy didn't
Speaker 1: get lost in the time in which he played. It's
Speaker 1: something that endures forever. Yeah, well, it's I tell you,
Speaker 1: it's been something these last nine months that Jim Taylor, Forest,
Speaker 1: Greg Now, Bart Star, all between October and now unfortunately
Speaker 1: have left us. Yeah, that's right. Bob Scernsky another one
Speaker 1: who is not in the Pro Football Hall of Fame,
Speaker 1: although bart Star, Bart started him in there, would say
Speaker 1: Bob Scarnzi, Bob Scronsky does deserve to be in the profo.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put that out there too. I mean, Bart
Speaker 1: Starr is one of the most mild mannered gentleman that
Speaker 1: you've ever seen. I'm gonna put this out there because
Speaker 1: now part second that man got is fired up? Is
Speaker 1: I think you ever saw him get fired up when
Speaker 1: it came to Bob Scorns. Yeah, he was convinced he
Speaker 1: should be in the Hall of Fame. Yeah, completely felt
Speaker 1: he felt he was maybe the most overlooked player of
Speaker 1: a of a great era Packer football. Throw that in there,
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. Well West, the Green Bay Packers get
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Speaker 1: partner of the Green Bay Packers. Okay, moving on to
Speaker 1: some of the here and now with regards to the Packers.
Speaker 1: We are beginning week two of O T A S.
Speaker 1: And one topic from last week I wanted to revisit
Speaker 1: here you and I will get a chance to see
Speaker 1: another practice and interview players in the locker room again
Speaker 1: on Wednesday this week. But one leftover talk from last week.
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting to me how Matt Lafleur
Speaker 1: talked about the building of a wide receiver corps for
Speaker 1: his offense. And what I'm talking about specifically is he
Speaker 1: said he kind of wants to get to know these
Speaker 1: guys and figure out what what area of expertise each
Speaker 1: of his receivers has, and then he says, then it's
Speaker 1: up to us as coaches to take those area as
Speaker 1: of expertise and use them in the best possible way
Speaker 1: within the offense. And now my biggest takeaway from that
Speaker 1: is that for all of the angst and discussion and
Speaker 1: questions about, well, how are the Packers going to replace
Speaker 1: Randall Cobb in the slot, departed free agent signed with
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys, had a great Packers careeries no longer.
Speaker 1: Here I took away from that West that there may
Speaker 1: not be when it's all said and done, in the
Speaker 1: fifty three man roster is selected at the end of
Speaker 1: training camp, there may not be anybody who's going to
Speaker 1: get the label of slot receiver in this offense. Do
Speaker 1: you think that's an accurate read on I think that's
Speaker 1: an accurate read. I thought your story really outlined that
Speaker 1: well to kind of looking at the skill sets of
Speaker 1: these players and also how the offensive game has changed
Speaker 1: a little bit. I go back to two thousand fourteen
Speaker 1: when you think about when Julie's Peppers signed. Do you
Speaker 1: remember the angst among Packers fans at the time about Hey,
Speaker 1: this guy's pounds, how does he fit? How is it
Speaker 1: gonna be an outside lineback? And then dom and when
Speaker 1: we started talking to the coaches, they talked about elephant
Speaker 1: rushers and things that sort. Let's be honest here, he
Speaker 1: was Julius Peppers. He was going to get sacks, he
Speaker 1: was going to be successful in the defense because news flash,
Speaker 1: he was Julius Peppers. Now, I'm not trying to compare
Speaker 1: any of these young men to Julius Peppers, but I
Speaker 1: think sometimes we get so pigeon held into thinking, Okay,
Speaker 1: you need someone that is five ft eleven weighs a
Speaker 1: hundred and nine pounds. That's the only way you're gonna
Speaker 1: be able to replace Randall Cop. It's not like that
Speaker 1: Randall Cop had injuries in the past, Jordy Nelson had
Speaker 1: to play the slot. Davante Adams has played the slot.
Speaker 1: I think there is a level of multiplicity to this
Speaker 1: defense that I think some people outside looking in casually
Speaker 1: haven't quite been able to pick up yet. Slot receiver
Speaker 1: is a valuable position in this league. It's the way
Speaker 1: things are now, with eleven personnel and with how spread
Speaker 1: out the game is getting, you need to have difference
Speaker 1: makers inside. I think we are starting to realize you
Speaker 1: don't need to have a certain height requirement or size
Speaker 1: requirement to play there. You need to have quick twitch,
Speaker 1: you need to be smart, and you need to be
Speaker 1: able to catch the football and traffic. But beyond that,
Speaker 1: what's the difference if it's Randall Cobb or Jimmy Graham.
Speaker 1: Nobody seemed to be putting up any gripes when Jimmy
Speaker 1: Graham was lining up in the slot last season. So
Speaker 1: my challenge is is to understand the big picture here
Speaker 1: and the fact that guys are going to be moving around,
Speaker 1: and the more that you can have those guys playing
Speaker 1: different positions, the more complex it ends up being for
Speaker 1: the defense. Yeah, the way la Fleur talked about it,
Speaker 1: he talked about it in terms of responsibility on a
Speaker 1: given play. Now, the players they have to learn the
Speaker 1: formations first where they line up, but then it's about responsibility.
Speaker 1: And the way he put it is, you may have
Speaker 1: somebody lining up in the slot position and he may
Speaker 1: have what's called a choice route or an option route,
Speaker 1: which is where you have to read the defense and
Speaker 1: you have say a two way ago. Maybe you're supposed
Speaker 1: to break to the left or you're supposed to break
Speaker 1: to the right, and you have to make that choice
Speaker 1: based on the leverage of the defender in front of you.
Speaker 1: And the quarterback has to read the defense and see
Speaker 1: it the same way as the receiver. That's where the
Speaker 1: whole being on the same page line comes from. So
Speaker 1: that's one thing. But Matt Lafleur also might have a
Speaker 1: guy line up in the slot position, but he might
Speaker 1: run a go route to occupy the safety to maybe
Speaker 1: open something up on the other side of the field
Speaker 1: because the safety has to worry about this guy running
Speaker 1: right up the hash mark all the way down the field. Now,
Speaker 1: slot receivers don't run go routes. But the only thing
Speaker 1: about slot receiver in this instance is where he lined up.
Speaker 1: What matters is the job that he's given on a
Speaker 1: particular play. And you know what Matt Lafleur is gonna do.
Speaker 1: He's gonna put the best guy at running the go
Speaker 1: route in that position to do that, to occupy the
Speaker 1: defense the way he wants the defense occupied. Right, exactly,
Speaker 1: Slot receivers don't run go routes. You never played me
Speaker 1: and Madden, I was all the way slot receivers go routes.
Speaker 1: But to your original point, yeah, that's that's exactly right.
Speaker 1: I mean, that isn't typically something you see. You see
Speaker 1: a lot of slants, you see a lot of crosses.
Speaker 1: The thing that's been exciting, and it's hard to really
Speaker 1: lay out all the things that they're doing so far
Speaker 1: through the mandatory or excuse me, the voluntary minicamp that
Speaker 1: we saw and then the one o t A practice.
Speaker 1: But I don't know how you feel about this. It
Speaker 1: is you're seeing different routes. You're seeing different patterns, you're
Speaker 1: seeing different emphasis ease of what these guys are stressing.
Speaker 1: I don't know how much I can get into all
Speaker 1: that with some of the liberties that you have to,
Speaker 1: you know, take with being allowed to watch practice. But
Speaker 1: it does look different and what these guys are being
Speaker 1: asked to do as receivers is going to be different
Speaker 1: than in the past. And I think that's exciting because
Speaker 1: if you can, if you can only go off of
Speaker 1: what you've seen, with what Matt Lafleur and Sean McVeigh
Speaker 1: have put on film, it is interesting to watch. It
Speaker 1: is exciting, and it does move the football down field.
Speaker 1: Now you have to make sure that Geronimo Allison, these
Speaker 1: young receivers, all those guys can handle it. But when
Speaker 1: you're talking about a slot receiver running a go route,
Speaker 1: if you're getting some of these guys like MVS, let's
Speaker 1: say he's lining up there, that's four three seven speed
Speaker 1: you're looking at in the middle of the field. All
Speaker 1: things that your defense, your secondary have to take into account.
Speaker 1: To me, that's exciting because you really don't know where
Speaker 1: all these pieces are gonna fit. And that's the thing too,
Speaker 1: is we're going to go into training camp and as
Speaker 1: we watch O T A s here, I don't know
Speaker 1: exactly how many receivers are on the roster, but it's
Speaker 1: a lot. Right when things get paired down at the
Speaker 1: end of the preseason, you're gonna have I mean, we'll
Speaker 1: see maybe five receivers on the roster, maybe six, will
Speaker 1: see how that shakes out. So at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, the guys who are the most well rounded,
Speaker 1: you know, he said he's looking for areas of expertise.
Speaker 1: He wants to know what each guy does best. But
Speaker 1: then after the thing you do best, those guys with
Speaker 1: the more well rounded games are the ones who are
Speaker 1: going to make the fifty three man roster. And then
Speaker 1: there may be there may be one or two of
Speaker 1: those guys further down the depth chart that have that
Speaker 1: one that one really really special skill that he may
Speaker 1: try to utilize in certain ways, but then also developed
Speaker 1: that player to be more well rounded down the road.
Speaker 1: That's just kind of how I see this playing out
Speaker 1: in a very in a very abstract way right now. Actually, Michael,
Speaker 1: at least during over the last fifteen years, the best
Speaker 1: example of that is Davante Adams Davante Adams is very
Speaker 1: specialized during his rookie season and what he could do
Speaker 1: and what they were asking him to do. You flash
Speaker 1: forward five years later now in the player that he's become.
Speaker 1: That's what they're looking for from these young receivers on
Speaker 1: this roster. All right, Well, with that, we will call
Speaker 1: it a wrap on this edition of Packers Unscripted. Be
Speaker 1: sure to follow all of our coverage of the team
Speaker 1: and of this week's open O, t A and locker
Speaker 1: room session on packers dot com. Be sure to subscribe
Speaker 1: to us and like us on iTunes and other podcast
Speaker 1: services if you are so inclined as a podcast listener.
Speaker 1: On Twitter, he's at west Hot. I'm at Mike Spofford
Speaker 1: at Packers for the team account. Thanks for tuning in, everybody,
Speaker 1: See you next time.