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Speaker 1: Welcome back to a Cardinal Territory. It is our sixty

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Speaker 1: ninth episode. Shout Out, Chip Carry. I'm your host, Katie Wu.

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Speaker 1: We are recording this Wednesday night from Bushetiam. You'll see

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Speaker 1: a Thursday morning. After taking game one of the three

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Speaker 1: game series against the Washington Nationals four to two on

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Speaker 1: Tuesday behind five innings of two run ball from Sunny Gray,

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Speaker 1: Saint Louis fell eight to two tonight, setting up a

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Speaker 1: pivotal rubber match.

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Speaker 2: On Thursday evening.

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Speaker 1: And as much as I try not to be the

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Speaker 1: dramatic the sky is falling kind of girl, it really

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Speaker 1: feels like Thursday is a must win game.

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Speaker 2: Tonight's game was not great.

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Speaker 1: Plante gave up audit, Plante gave up a three run

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Speaker 1: homewer to Nathaniel Lowe on the top of the first

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Speaker 1: and it just felt over from there. It didn't help

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Speaker 1: that the Cardinals were facing off against Mackenzie Gore, the

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Speaker 1: butting ace for the Nationals, who, yes, you guessed it

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Speaker 1: is left handed.

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Speaker 2: In fact, we.

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Speaker 1: Asked Ollie Marvel after the game what made Mackenzie Gore

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Speaker 1: so good and so effective against his ball club, and

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Speaker 1: Allie said, he's left handed.

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Speaker 2: No lives were told.

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Speaker 1: The Cardinals have really struggled against South Pause over the

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Speaker 1: last month or so, and that kind of goes into

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Speaker 1: their various players that they have out.

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Speaker 2: We'll get into all.

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Speaker 1: The injury updates later, but it just was not a

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Speaker 1: competitive ballgame, and in July the Cardinals have had a

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Speaker 1: ton of those. Look the games in Pittsburgh, the three

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Speaker 1: game sweep were semi close two of them, but it's

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Speaker 1: hard to really say that they were competitive games when

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Speaker 1: you don't score in any of them. So you have

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Speaker 1: the Pittsburgh series in which the Cardinals go scoreless for three.

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Speaker 1: You go and you lose two out of three at Wrigley,

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Speaker 1: and those two losses were just egregious, not close at all.

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Speaker 1: And then you come here against a Nationals team that

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Speaker 1: fired both their general manager and their manager ahead of

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Speaker 1: the series, just days before they had the number one

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Speaker 1: pick and the amateur draft on Sunday, and weeks before

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Speaker 1: the trade deadline. You see their overall record, which is

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Speaker 1: right there with the Rockies and the Marlins amongst the

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Speaker 1: worst in the National League, and you think, okay, this

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Speaker 1: is a team that we should be able to take

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Speaker 1: care of business against, and they just were not able

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Speaker 1: to do that tonight, So now your fate lies within

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Speaker 1: Miles Michaelis, who's coming off a really bad start in Wrigley.

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Speaker 1: And you just really feel like this is such a

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Speaker 1: pivotal series when you think about how the messaging has

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Speaker 1: been framed for July. We know how important this month is,

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Speaker 1: We know that the Cardinals trade online picture is gonna

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Speaker 1: hinge on their success here. So I don't know, maybe

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Speaker 1: I'm crazy, but I feel like Thursday's game is it's

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Speaker 1: a must win game. So in order to win games,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have to pitch a lot better than the

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Speaker 1: Cardinals have been doing over their last turn through the rotation.

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Speaker 1: Cardinals starting pitchers have allowed twenty two earned runs in

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Speaker 1: their last twenty three and a third innings pitch. If

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Speaker 1: you're watching this on YouTube, that's just twenty three and

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Speaker 1: a half. That's not a step. It's supposed to be

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Speaker 1: twenty three and the third innings pitched either way, not good.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna fix this because it's bothering me.

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Speaker 2: Not good. That's not what you want from your rotation.

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Speaker 1: And I thought Polante was kind of a microcosm of

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Speaker 1: the issues for the rotation overall. We know that this

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Speaker 1: is not a starting pitching staff that packs a lot

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Speaker 1: of swing and miss Okay, it was never advertised as that.

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Speaker 2: We know this. For a very long time.

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Speaker 1: In April May and sometimes early June, Saint Louis was

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Speaker 1: able to get away with that. What we're seeing now

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Speaker 1: is the gamble that you make when you have a

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Speaker 1: predominantly pitched to contact rotation. You're going to have balls

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Speaker 1: that get through and days where your pitchers get hard.

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Speaker 1: Only Marble said it best you live and die with

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Speaker 1: the hard contact. That's exactly what happened to Polante today.

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Speaker 1: He threw nearly thirty fastballs, did not generate a single

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Speaker 1: swing and miss on one single one of those fastballs,

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Speaker 1: didn't really have the curve ball, which it looks really good.

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Speaker 1: His last three starts definitely wasn't as sharp tonight, and

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Speaker 1: that just allowed the opponents excuse me, to really catch

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Speaker 1: up to the fastball and be very selective with it.

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Speaker 1: And you saw it with the types of swings they

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Speaker 1: took in the first inning and the fourth inning. So

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Speaker 1: I asked him, is living by the the ground ball

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Speaker 1: and the contact rate?

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Speaker 2: Kind of what can explain the.

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Speaker 1: Absurd amount of earned runs from the rotation and the

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Speaker 1: last turn, and he acknowledged that, yeah, maybe it could

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Speaker 1: when you have guys like Miles Michaelison and Eric Fetti

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Speaker 1: who we and we discussed the last episode. It was

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Speaker 1: a little aggressive of me, just hadn't had it. Sunny

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Speaker 1: Gray has swing and miss and he did a nice

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Speaker 1: job getting through five on Tuesday. And Libby is a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a hybrid. He has swing and miss

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Speaker 1: but definitely uses the ground ball contact to his advantage.

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Speaker 1: When you have a staff like that that lives and

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Speaker 1: dies by uncontrollable things like where the ball is put

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Speaker 1: in play, you have outings like Polant's today. It's coming

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Speaker 1: at a time the starting pitching collapse, if you will

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Speaker 1: collapse is strong, the starting pitching inefficiencies.

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Speaker 2: It's coming out a.

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Speaker 1: Time where the Cardinals really could not afford it. The

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Speaker 1: offense is not clicking. They needed the starting pitching to

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Speaker 1: be their anchor. Now things are kind of just here

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Speaker 1: we are. I don't want to say falling apart again

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Speaker 1: because I'm not trying to be the dramatic girl.

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Speaker 2: I don't have Bernie to walk me down or talk

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Speaker 2: me down from the ledge.

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Speaker 1: But it's really hard to feel optimistic about this team

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Speaker 1: right now as we're nineties into July, knowing how important

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Speaker 1: the rest of the month is. I've yet to really

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Speaker 1: seen signs that they're gonna come out of this, but

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Speaker 1: maybe with some key hitters looking to come back soon,

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Speaker 1: they will.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Let's find out. We'll get into it first though. A

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Speaker 1: message from Arena Club.

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Speaker 3: Hey, let's do a little player spotlight. Thanks to Arena Club,

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Speaker 3: AJ give me a player this season that you think

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Speaker 3: is underrated and you might want to try and grab

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Speaker 3: his card.

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Speaker 4: James Would. I don't know that he's underrated, but Washington

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Speaker 4: National's superstar in the making, and the first slab pack

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Speaker 4: I ever opened had him in it, his rookie card,

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Speaker 4: and the value is only going to go up and

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Speaker 4: up and up. And I'm not gonna sell it Kwie yet, Scott.

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna hold on to it because after he continues

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Speaker 4: to hit big homers and put up the stats make

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Speaker 4: all star teams, it's going to get more expensive for

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Speaker 4: someone to buy.

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Speaker 3: For me, this is his first full season in the majors.

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Speaker 3: Keep that in mind. I think he's underrated, He's on

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Speaker 3: a Nationals team that's man adding enough.

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Speaker 4: To undert when he makes the All Star team this year,

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Speaker 4: They're not going to be underrated.

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Speaker 2: That helps.

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Speaker 3: He's been intentionally walked four times in a game. Anyway,

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Speaker 3: if you want to try and find a Wood rookie card,

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Speaker 3: go check out slab packs on Arena Club and right

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Speaker 3: now you can get twenty percent off your first slab pack.

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Speaker 3: Or if you just want to go with a card purchase,

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Speaker 3: go to Arena club dot com. Slash foul, use code foul.

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Speaker 3: If you buy, sell, trade, collect, go for it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, talk about James Wood. Did you guys hear how

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Speaker 1: loud that home run was today? I mean that left

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Speaker 1: the bat from John King at almost one hundred and

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Speaker 1: sixteen miles per hour and it just kind of woke

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Speaker 1: me up from my seat. I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: that was some really loud contact. James Wood certified stud

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Speaker 1: I am looking forward to watching him partake in the

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Speaker 1: home run derby.

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Speaker 2: It's cool quickside rant to see.

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Speaker 1: I'm not by any means suggesting the Nationals as an

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Speaker 1: organization to model yourself after, but they have such a

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Speaker 1: fun core of guys like James Wood, Mackenzie Gore, cj Abrams,

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Speaker 1: and that is a core that you can get excited about.

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Speaker 1: Whether or not the Nationals have the right people and

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Speaker 1: ownership in place to actually turn that core into something

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Speaker 1: is a different story. But it's fun to see a

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Speaker 1: core really coming into their own and maybe being that

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Speaker 1: next potential wave of talent. It reminds me of something

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Speaker 1: that I would like to see more from the Cardinals.

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Speaker 1: Definitely some key pieces, but I don't really know if

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Speaker 1: anyone's jumped out to Mackenzie Gore or James Wood status.

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Speaker 2: Not just yet.

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Speaker 1: So you can come talk ball with us on chat

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Speaker 1: BCC at foul Territory dot chat. We're hanging with fans,

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Speaker 1: answering questions, hosting trivia, and running giveaways like two free

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Speaker 1: MLB tickets up to a four hundred dollars value and

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Speaker 1: a free MLB jersey of your choice. Got a hot

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Speaker 1: take or a burning question, drop it in the chat.

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Speaker 1: We might even feature it on the show. It's free

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Speaker 1: to join. Go to foul Territory dot Chat and come

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Speaker 1: hang Moving on, let's get to some injury updates, some

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Speaker 1: good news, Some good news. Yvon Herrera is set to

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Speaker 1: start a rehab assignment, we believe with Triple A Memphis tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: so Thursday, and that is just all around fantastic news

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Speaker 1: when you think about the prognosis his initial window. He

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Speaker 1: was given two to six weeks, which is very large

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Speaker 1: and very big on purpose. So Herrera really feels like

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Speaker 1: talking to Ollie Marmle and talking to Herrera a little

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Speaker 1: bit on Tuesday. Had a really good week at Bushadium

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Speaker 1: while the team was on the road. Is in good health,

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Speaker 1: ready to start this rehab assignment. The timing about this

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Speaker 1: is a little tricky because he'll start on July tenth,

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Speaker 1: and then he'll play Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and then

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Speaker 1: similar to the Major League team, both Memphis and Springfield

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Speaker 1: are off for four games for the All Star Break,

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Speaker 1: so we will have a designated break in that rehab assignment.

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Speaker 1: What that means going forward for Herrera, if he'll need

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Speaker 1: a couple more games after that, remains to be seen.

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Speaker 1: Certainly not ideal because I don't know if anyone has noticed,

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Speaker 1: but the Cardinals have really missed evon Herrera's bat in

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Speaker 1: the lineup, which is a crazy sentiment because and this

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Speaker 1: is no knock on Herrera, but if you would have

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Speaker 1: told me that he would have had the most impactful

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Speaker 1: bat on this in the lineup in twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 1: I would have been like surprised because he's always been

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Speaker 1: like bat first, but I would have been like the

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Speaker 1: most impactful hitter.

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Speaker 2: He's the most impactful hitter on this Cardinals team.

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Speaker 1: But he is so obviously getting him back, especially at

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Speaker 1: a time where the offense is struggling and guys have

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Speaker 1: not really figured out a way to combat the left hander,

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Speaker 1: that's going to mean a lot. We just don't know

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Speaker 1: what that timeline looks like, and hamstrings are tricky, they're

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Speaker 1: very finicky. The break in between with no games and

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Speaker 1: no game action does not help at all. But the

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Speaker 1: good news is he will be starting that rehab assignment tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: Another right handed hitter that you all have many questions

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Speaker 1: about is Jordan Walker. So he's checked every box from

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Speaker 1: a rehab and health standpoint coming back from pendicitis.

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Speaker 2: He has no lingering side effects. It's all in good

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Speaker 2: health there.

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Speaker 1: So you love to hear that what the Cardinals are

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Speaker 1: working on Jordan Walker now is ensuring he's in a

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Speaker 1: good place from a physical and mental approach to return

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Speaker 1: to the lineup and be an impactful hitter. That's why

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Speaker 1: he is spending the majority of his rehab with double

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Speaker 1: A Springfield. I think I touched on this the last episode.

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Speaker 1: Springfield has the best facilities and amongst Cardinals minor league affiliates,

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Speaker 1: players talk about all the time if they're going to

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Speaker 1: go on a rehab assignment, they'd rather go to Springfield

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Speaker 1: because they like the facilities there. And Jordan Walker has

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Speaker 1: a really good relationship with minor league hitting coordinator rus Steinhorn.

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Speaker 1: So those two things allowed Jordan who hate to say it,

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Speaker 1: just has not he's been disappointing this year from an

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Speaker 1: offensive standpoint. This will allow Jordans some extra time in

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Speaker 1: a non competitive environment to just get his swing right because,

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Speaker 1: similar to Herrera, if the Cardinals want to produce, especially

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Speaker 1: against left handers, they're going to need that right handed

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Speaker 1: bat that they were counting on Walker being for them

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Speaker 1: this year, and there's no use rushing him up if

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Speaker 1: the swing and the approach and the mindset does not

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Speaker 1: suggest that he's ready. So take advantage of this unique

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Speaker 1: opportunity if you are the Cardinals and Jordan Walker to reset,

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Speaker 1: because chances are if he was going to come to

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Speaker 1: the majors as soon as he was ready, he was

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Speaker 1: either going to play every day and not be in

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Speaker 1: a good spot about it and the production would show,

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Speaker 1: or he'd be on the bench and it would not

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Speaker 1: allow him this opportunity to continue trying to fine tune

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Speaker 1: and adjust and tweak and make changes all of the

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Speaker 1: baseball cliches that we say on a daily basis. So

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Speaker 1: those are the two right handed bats we're looking at.

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Speaker 1: Still no estimated timeline from when they could return, but

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Speaker 1: they are progressing, and I do think it's really encouraging

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Speaker 1: that Herrera is starting that we have assignment. Nolan Arnada

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Speaker 1: was back in the lineup today, was hopeful to avoid

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Speaker 1: nil stint. He's played in just two games in July,

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Speaker 1: dealing with a sprained right index finger in Pittsburgh and

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Speaker 1: then some shoulder and pingement that he felt he got

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Speaker 1: over compensating because he wasn't really able to grip the

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Speaker 1: bat fully but was playing through it anyway because of

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Speaker 1: that finger. So some right shoulder, bicep and pingement that

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Speaker 1: kept him out of the lineup for the last few days,

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Speaker 1: dating back to.

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Speaker 2: The Chicago series. He's back today.

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Speaker 1: The Cardinals were going to make a decision on whether

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Speaker 1: or not to put him on the al. If he

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Speaker 1: was not good to go today, he was going to

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Speaker 1: go on the injured list, but that was not something

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Speaker 1: that Nolan wanted. And usually just based on the timing

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Speaker 1: of the calendar, with four games left into the All

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Speaker 1: Star break, you would tend to see guys be like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, give me the extra days, give me

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Speaker 1: the rest so I can take the All Star break,

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Speaker 1: maybe go on a brief rehab assignment and be ready

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Speaker 1: to go.

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Speaker 2: That is not what Nolan Arnatto wanted to do.

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Speaker 1: He'd been lobbying to get back in the lineup since

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Speaker 1: Monday's off day, but was not one hundred percent ready

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Speaker 1: to go on Tuesday. Was adamant that he'd be in

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Speaker 1: the lineup today, and he was. I don't think he's

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Speaker 1: super happy about the production today, but definitely helps when

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Speaker 1: you think about what that Cardinals lineup looked like over

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Speaker 1: the last few days. Getting Arnauto back will help getting

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Speaker 1: her era back hopefully ideally the second series after the

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Speaker 1: All Star break, that'll be important. And then we're going

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Speaker 1: to continue monitoring Jordan Walker. And for the comments in

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Speaker 1: last video that said you need to do your homework,

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Speaker 1: I've obviously look at the box scores for Jordan Walker

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Speaker 1: and Springfield, and I know it wasn't good, Okay, so relax.

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Speaker 1: We're not worried about the results right now. We're not

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Speaker 1: worried about if he goes ohver four in a double

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Speaker 1: A game. We worried about how he feels about his

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Speaker 1: swing and the fine tune things that you're not going

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Speaker 1: to see in.

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Speaker 2: A double A box score. Thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: All right, I think that's all from the injury updates.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. So.

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Speaker 1: Let's hear from Green Chef and we'll dive into some

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Speaker 1: rotation concerns.

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Speaker 2: Kratz.

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Speaker 5: me something super quick that I can heat up. The

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Speaker 1: Okay, so the Cardinals have mostly set the rotation heading

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Speaker 1: into the All Star break. There is just one question mark,

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Speaker 1: please don't yell at me. The Cardinals will start Michaelis

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Speaker 1: on Thursday, Matthew liberatorre will take a start Friday. Saturday

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Speaker 1: is still penciled in as Ericfetti, but nothing official. I said,

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Speaker 1: don't yell at me, and Sunday will be sunny Gray.

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Speaker 1: Eric Fetty's rotation status is still in question. The Cardinals

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Speaker 1: have not made a definitive decision on it. They're still

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Speaker 1: weighing all of their options, and I hear the arguments

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Speaker 1: of if Fetti's rotation status should be in questioned, shouldn't Miles,

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Speaker 1: Michaelis and I don't disagree, but I think the reason

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Speaker 1: why Fetti is he is being debated more than Miles

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Speaker 1: is is because when you look at their last two performances,

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Speaker 1: obviously both weren't great, just not at all. But Miles,

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Speaker 1: from his first three innings to his final three innings,

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Speaker 1: to me, and this is speculation, suggested that he was

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Speaker 1: tipping his pitches in Chicago, and he went out and

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Speaker 1: fixed it in the fourth inning. And I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: he deserves applause for this, but was able to at

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Speaker 1: least show to his manager, to his pitching coach that

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Speaker 1: he'd made the adjustments.

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Speaker 2: The lights of the stadium just went off. How scary.

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Speaker 1: Was able to show that and give some sort of

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Speaker 1: optimism that he can get through Thursday's start. Whereas Eric Fetti,

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Speaker 1: when he took the mount on Sunday, you could just

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Speaker 1: tell was not confident about his abilities, was not sure

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Speaker 1: where his pitches were going. Was kind of just like

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Speaker 1: hoping his pitches would land and hoping for a good outcome.

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Speaker 1: And that's a really scary place to be as a

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Speaker 1: major league pitcher when you are on the mound and

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Speaker 1: you know you have no idea where this ball was

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Speaker 1: going and we talked to him mentally, or we talked

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Speaker 1: about his mental progress and where he was his mentality

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Speaker 1: after Sunday's game, and he was like, I'd like to

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Speaker 1: say that, you know, that doesn't bother me, but it

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Speaker 1: has like it's starting to these these starts are essentially

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Speaker 1: starting to pile up on Eric Fetty where he's now

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Speaker 1: pitching where he's hoping to do well instead of going

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Speaker 1: out there and attacking. And to me, that just suggests

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Speaker 1: a starting pitcher needs a break. And look, I really

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Speaker 1: like Eric Fetty. I think he's been a total pro

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Speaker 1: this whole time. He's taught me a lot. I've enjoyed

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Speaker 1: covering him. Same with Miles michaelis. But when you're a

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Speaker 1: pitcher and you just feel like you can't trust your

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Speaker 1: stuff and the body language shows it on the mound,

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Speaker 1: you can't take your next start. And I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: he needs to he kicked out of rotation forever, though

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Speaker 1: some of you are. I am saying you have such

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Speaker 1: a unique opportunity with the calendar right now where you

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Speaker 1: can skip his next start and just get to the

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Speaker 1: All Star break and reassess from there. Michael McGreevy is

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Speaker 1: eligible to be recalled tomorrow, well, Thursday, July tenth. He

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Speaker 1: can take your spots start for you on Saturday. And

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Speaker 1: I know that there's going to be some front office

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Speaker 1: dynamics about how many times can we option this guy

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Speaker 1: back and forth before we have to make a decision

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Speaker 1: on him. That's fair, but that is kind of the

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Speaker 1: game that you played when you decided to use him

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Speaker 1: in this role. At some point in this season, you

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Speaker 1: need to see Michael McGreevy an extended period of time

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Speaker 1: in the rotation.

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Speaker 2: If that's not.

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Speaker 1: Right now, okay, fine, maybe it's after the trade deadline. Sure,

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Speaker 1: I think most suggested that saying worst case scenario for McGreevy,

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Speaker 1: he's pitching here in August.

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Speaker 2: Okay. If your plan is to in.

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Speaker 1: Some way or fashion pitch McGreevy in a regular major

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Speaker 1: league rotation for the final two months of the season, fine,

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Speaker 1: I'm okay with that. But if you are unsure, if

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Speaker 1: Eric Fetti can take a start on Saturday and you

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Speaker 1: can call up McGreevy and you need to win these

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Speaker 1: games went into the All Star break, McGreevy is far

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Speaker 1: and away the better option right now.

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Speaker 2: Again, it doesn't have to be a permanent decision.

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Speaker 1: It can be a spot start and you can reevaluate

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Speaker 1: your rotation after the All Star break.

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Speaker 2: The Cardinals did that with Sunny Gray.

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Speaker 1: That's why he's pitching on regular rest because he'll be

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Speaker 1: able to have the Sunday start heading into the All

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Speaker 1: Star break and reset four days no one's pitching, and

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Speaker 1: then Oli Marmel and Dusty Blake can.

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Speaker 2: Retweak the rotation as needed. So just my two cents.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully on Thursday we'll have more answers to you for

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Speaker 1: you about the rotation. I did ask Alie today, Hey,

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Speaker 1: so we're not asking you the same question every single day.

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Speaker 1: Do you have an idea on when you will make

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Speaker 1: a decision about Saturday starter? And he said he did not.

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Speaker 1: Too many conversations need to be taken place here. And

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Speaker 1: I will say this disclaimer. Okay, I hate this. The

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Speaker 1: lights are off. Nope, not going to work. I will

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Speaker 1: say this as a disclaimer. I'm so scared that excuse me.

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Speaker 1: Ollie Marmle only controls who's on his roster when he

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Speaker 1: gets them. He doesn't control the roster decisions. That is

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Speaker 1: a John Mosey Loock and company decision. So I've ben

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Speaker 1: end this episode because I am totally freaked out that

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Speaker 1: the lights are off. I'm sure you'll understand, Bernie and

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Speaker 1: I will be back with you earlier in the week

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Speaker 1: or later in the week to preview the Braves, and

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Speaker 1: then Sunday night we will have draft coverage.

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Speaker 2: Cardinals have the number five overall pick.

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Speaker 1: If you're looking for some names to target, we have

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Speaker 1: it up on the Athletic broke some things down with

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Speaker 1: the Athletics. Keith Law on five names the Cardinals could target,

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Speaker 1: and yes, I put ethan Holiday on there, even though

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Speaker 1: the odds are slim to none.

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Speaker 2: All Right, that's it from Cardinal Territory. I'm out of

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Speaker 2: here before ghost kidnaps me. Talk to y'all later. Seeya

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Speaker 2: three