WEBVTT - Satellites Zero In on Elusive Methane Emissions 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:03.320 This is Dana Perkins and you're listening to Switched on 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:07.880 the BNAF podcast, and today we talk about methane leaks 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:10.799 and how to find them. Methane is a potent greenhouse 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:13.800 gas with a shorter half life than carbon dioxide, but 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.880 with more global warming potential in that shorter life. So 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:21.400 while methane might be the simplest hydrocarbon with just one 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:25.160 carbon and four hydrogen atoms, it is a complex problem. 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:29.040 Today we welcome Maria Olivia Porce from our oil team. 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:32.720 While there's plenty of methane coming from agriculture, she's actually 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:35.280 going to share how methane is being monitored in the 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.600 oil and gas industry. Satellites have changed the way we 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:42.960 detect leaks, illuminating just how flawed previous monitoring and reporting 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:45.919 were in addition to the leaks themselves. But what are 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:49.160 oil companies doing with this better information? B and EF 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:52.839 subscribers will be able to access several research notes on methane, 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:55.200 and I recommend taking a look at the oil and 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:59.160 gas methane monitor super emitters in the US as well 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:02.520 as oil and a methane fixed more likely with growing 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:06.600 un group and the methane bill facing US oil and gas. 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:10.319 These can be found at BNEF dot com and at 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:13.679 BNF go on the Bloomberg terminal. If you like this show, 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:16.600 give us a review or subscribe, and it will help 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:20.600 make us more discoverable by other listeners like you. Right now, 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:34.240 let's get to talking about methane. Maria, thank you very 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:35.720 much for joining today. 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:36.520 Thank you for having me. 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:40.039 So we're going to spend this entire show talking about methane, 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:43.039 which we often talk about in carbon equivalence. But let's 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:46.480 start by just talking about methane as methane, not as 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:50.280 an equivalent to anything. Why for those people who are 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:54.600 focused on climate change and interested in limiting the effects 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:59.160 of climate change, whether paras aligned or otherwise, why should 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:01.120 we care about methane? 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:05.120 Sure? So, methane is the main constituent of natural gas, 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:07.960 so that's gas of fossil origin, and it makes up 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:11.320 about seventy to ninety or even slightly over in ninety 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:15.800 percent of the gas composition. It is colorless and odorless, 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:19.800 which means that it's virtually invisible to the naked dye. However, 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:23.840 methane is a very potent greenhouse gas. So what that 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:27.880 means is that over a twenty year period, methane traps 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:32.080 eighty two point five times more heat than carbon dioxide. 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:35.720 And here I'm referencing the twenty year figure because methane 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:40.240 has a very short atmospheric lifespan of about twelve years 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:44.440 before it gets oxidized and converted to carbon dioxide. However, 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:49.360 methane is the second largest contributor to climate change, so 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:52.680 it means that if we're able to reduce methane emissions 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:55.639 in the short term, we will be able to limit 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:57.760 the global rise in temperatures. 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:00.560 So when we're talking about methane methane and depending on 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:02.720 how you pronounce in what part of the world you're from, 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:05.280 this is a greenhouse gas that is really important that 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:10.320 we think about intervening on right now. So this zero 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:12.720 point in the future when we talk about carbon emissions 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:15.760 being out in twenty fifty, is potentially much more urgent 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.400 when it comes to methane and we're thinking about warming 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:21.440 and the effects that it could have immediately. So let's 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:23.600 talk about where it comes from. So I know, first 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:26.880 of all that it comes from cows, and there's a 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.760 lot of discussion around that part of the agricultural system. 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.000 But where are some of the other places and potentially 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:34.040 what we're going to talk about a little bit more 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:35.400 detail on the show today. 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:39.480 Sure, you're absolutely correct. Agriculture is in fact the largest 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:42.680 source of methane emissions, so about forty percent, followed by 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:45.880 oil and gas, and depending on the inventory, oil and 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:49.880 gas would be between twenty to something like thirty percent. So, 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:53.280 because it is a natural gas, it is a very 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:57.960 common product in oil and gas production and operation, so 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:02.720 there it can leak at various points across the supply 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:05.760 chain and that's how it ends up in the atmosphere. 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:07.880 Well, so let's talk about that within the oil and 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:10.920 gas universe. Some of this must come from extraction and 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:14.440 then transportation and then actual use. So can you break 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:17.320 down the different sources within oil and gas where there 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:18.480 are methane leaks? 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:21.760 Sure, so the sector where most of these emissions are 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:25.320 coming from is actually the sectors are the upstream and midstream. 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:28.599 There isn't that much on the end you side, just 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:31.400 because it is combusted. So when you combust it it 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:34.240 turns into CO two. But if we think about upstream 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:38.800 and midstream, we can break it into three different main sources. 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:41.119 So we can think about equipment we can think about 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:44.880 operations and we can think about the economics. So if 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:47.880 it's to do with equipment, these can include things such 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:51.760 as faulty equipment, so devices that are not working properly, 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:54.880 or devices that have been designed to function in a 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:58.760 way such that they release natural gas when they need 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:03.320 to carry out and processes, whether it's regulating pressure, temperature, 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:07.480 And here I'm describing something that's called pneumatic devices, which 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:10.720 in the US, according to data that company is self 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:14.080 report to the Environmental Protection Agency or the EPA, they 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:20.279 represent the largest source of emissions for operations. In some cases, 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:23.440 they're designed in such a way that they can be 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:26.760 improved so that you can limit the amount of gas 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.440 that escapes from various processes. And then with economics, so 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:34.279 it could be because, for instance, the amount of gas 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:37.279 that is being produced is very small, so that it 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:40.320 doesn't make economic sense to treat and transport that gas. 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:42.600 And this would be very common where gas is an 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:47.040 associated product, in other words, where a well produces primarily 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:49.600 oil and some gas, So that would be the case 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.120 where the volumes are quite small, or it could be 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:55.800 that there isn't enough spare capacity in the pipeline, so 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:58.760 that the operator may not have the option to store 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:01.640 the gas and reuse it for instances fuel on site, 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:03.120 and they have to dispose of it. 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:06.679 So we know where it comes from various sources, actually 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:08.400 lots of places that it comes from. We know where 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:10.160 it comes from, and we know why we should care 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:12.359 about it as a greenhouse gas. When you go to 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:16.120 analyze something, it always starts with a data set and 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:18.800 where are you getting the information from that you are 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:22.160 analyzing when you're looking at current state of play with 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:25.240 methane leaks, and really the beginning of how we fix 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:27.520 the problem, how do you find the problem? 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:31.080 So we think that we should make use of all 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:34.560 the available data that we have now rather than wait 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:38.000 for perfect data. And we can start with inventories. So 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:41.760 this could be whether it's a country level inventory, which 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:44.720 wouldn't be too granular. We could look at data that 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.880 companies self report to the agencies, like the one that 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:51.320 I mentioned from the us EPA. But we have been 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.440 quite lucky in the past and we've had a number 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:58.480 of satellites that are able to observe methane emissions from space, 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.200 so we've been able to interg rate data that is 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:05.159 now measured rather than being estimated. A problem that we 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:09.480 have with these inventories is that they tend to underestimate. 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:12.840 So from studies that have been done again, the figure 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:15.840 in the US that we've seen is that these methane 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:18.640 emissions from oil and gas could be under reported by 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:22.480 sixty percent, which is quite a lot. So that's when 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.920 we turn to measure data in order to understand or 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:28.120 to fill in these discrepancies. 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:31.720 Okay, so you've established that we now know that the 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:34.800 information that's coming to us from the companies that are 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:39.560 reporting their methane emissions is dramatically underreported. So then we 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:42.400 turn to this satellite information. Talk to me a little 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:44.960 bit about the benefit of the satellite data and then 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.920 some of the areas where maybe that satellite data is 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:49.960 a little bit less reliable and why this is a 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.000 really tricky area to analyze. 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:55.080 Sure, first of all, let me just briefly explain how 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:57.000 satellites actually measure methane. 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:57.760 That'd be great. 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.920 So satellites use. Most of the satellites that are observing 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:06.280 methane currently, they rely on a principle called backscattering, so 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:09.840 they use incoming sunlight which is then reflected from the 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:13.440 Earth's surface, and as it travels through the atmosphere, it 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:16.240 will be absorbed and re emitted by the gases that 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:20.760 it encounters, and those gases will leave a distinctive fingerprint 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:25.400 in the incoming sunlight. That which is the satellite spectrometer. 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:30.080 So that's simply a device that splits light into different components. 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:32.920 So the incoming light which is the satellite and is 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:36.760 being analyzed for the methane wavelengths in other parts is 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:40.360 looking for the methane signature. What we didn't do because 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:44.480 that would be the concentration of methane. We didn't need 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.800 to do further processing to turn that into aliqu rates. 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.920 So how many kilograms or tons of methane per hour? 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:55.080 And you're correct in pointing out satellites do have limitations. 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:58.360 So although they don't work very well in areas of 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:03.080 high latitude, also limited by atmospheric conditions where you have 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:07.120 a very high cloud cover, they obviously can't really see 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:11.360 very well. And also offshore they tend to although that 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:15.120 space is changing now and there have been progresses made. 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:19.959 So satellites do struggle offshore because the sea absorbs most 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:24.520 of the sunlight so that it cannot reach the satellite spectrometer. 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:29.000 To overcome these challenges, companies have looked at aligning the 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:31.840 satellite in such a way that then the sea surface 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:34.720 essentially acts as a mirror and it can reflect most 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:38.360 of the sunlight and the satellite can analyze that for 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:42.840 the methane fingerprint. But the huge benefit of having satellite 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:48.120 observing the Earth is that it's essentially remote observations. We 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:52.000 are measuring it rather than relying on imperfect and less 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:57.120 optimal methods that are calculating methane. And when you're doing that, 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:02.199 you're adding another layer of t cosparency. It's data that's 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:07.120 independently measured, so it's getting us closer to the actual 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:11.200 numbers when it comes to understanding methane emissions. The other 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:14.600 I'm not sure if I wouldn't necessarily call it a limitation, 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.360 but is something to be aware of. So different satellites 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:21.400 they would have different resolutions, So what this means is 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:25.000 that when they're observing the Earth, for instance, they could 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:29.480 see essentially two distinct emissions event appear as one just 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:33.079 because they're not able to resolve at a very fine resolution. 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:37.120 And that becomes important when we're talking about superimeters. For instance, 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:41.520 but again the space has been fairly exciting. In the 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:44.439 past year alone, we've had two satellites being launched, so 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:49.559 that's the Environmental Defense Funds Methane AT and Carbon Mappers 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:54.200 TANAGER one. So whilst methinks that will be focused on methane, 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:57.120 the Carbon Mapper satellite will be looking at methane as 0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:58.920 well as carbon dioxide blooms. 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:02.960 So to what a stent are the mirrors of methane? 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:05.880 You're also utilizing this data or is it largely being 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:09.240 embraced by third parties like ourselves and by like the 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:10.440 Environmental Defense Fund. 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:14.080 Yes, so, apart from the academics that are using this 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:19.240 data to better understand where methane emissions are coming from, 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:23.079 there are third party organizations. So one of them would 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:28.480 be the International Methane Emissions Observatory or IMEO, which is 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:32.880 a United Nations initiative. And what they do they collect 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:36.920 data from a number of satellites and they made these 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:41.920 observations publicly available. Did you disaggregate the data by sector only? 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:46.160 So oil and gas, coal and waste, But there isn't 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:49.640 any further granularity beyond that. 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:51.920 So for anyone who wants to look at this data, 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.480 set though, the IMEO has that available right now, I 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:56.520 can Google search it and there it is. I can 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:59.480 see bisector where this methane is coming from globally. 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.920 Yeah, that's correct. You'll be able to see the plumes 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:05.360 on a map, and you'll be able to know what 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:09.880 rate they're associated with, so how much methane they leaked, 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:11.800 and you'll be able to see the sector. 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:14.760 But the data that you looked at was much more granular. 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:17.280 So what were some of the key takeaways from your 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:19.680 analysis when you did look a little bit deeper into 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:20.240 this data. 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:24.160 You're right, So we actually used the Imeo data, but 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:28.160 because of the issue of the sector level granularity that 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:31.200 I mentioned, we thought that our research could fill in 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:34.640 this gap for more transparency, and we really wanted to 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:38.560 add more context around you know, where these methane plumes 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.800 are coming from, so what are the emitting facilities? Who 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:46.480 are their operators? So we analyzed about three hundred methane 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:50.960 plumes in the US that occurred between January last year 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.360 and Apro this year. But yeah, all the data came 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:57.240 from from Imeo. What we did differently was that we 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:01.880 looked for the nearest oil and facility to a plum 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:04.439 and we try to map those so that we were 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:09.760 then able to understand again facilities and operators, how difficult 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:10.600 is it. 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:14.560 To reduce the amount of mething being emitted. 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:18.920 So for oil and gas, it's actually the sector where 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:23.239 you have the highest potential for the fastest and relatively 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:27.559 inexpensive large methink reductions, because as we were talking earlier, 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:32.559 is really about fixing leaks. So it could be optimizing processes, 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:36.959 or it could be replacing equipment, but generally these reductions 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.280 they do come at a relatively inexpensive cost. 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:44.000 Presumably one of the challenges with addressing these leaks is 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:47.319 finding them. But as this satellite data is becoming much 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:50.040 more prevalent, you'll be able to find them even better. 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:52.199 And some of these companies are actually able to then 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:56.120 locate leaks and sometimes very remote areas. So this is 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:59.160 certainly a tool that were a lot of people are 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:02.480 embracing at moment, whether on the third party side like 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:05.359 we are, or within these oil and gas companies themselves 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:10.000 now the IOSes, so the international oil companies, many of 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:14.360 them are reporting and including their environmental, social and governance 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:18.000 data and making it available because they are publicly listed 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:20.840 in their investors but the national oil companies do not 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:25.480 have this reporting imperative our national oil companies also looking 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.920 at this data. Are we really then still talking about 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:32.480 the listed companies when it comes down to targeting this 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:34.360 source of emissions. 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:39.400 So there has been a lot of traction among different operators, 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:43.720 whether IOSS or national when it comes to methin I 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:46.040 just wanted to flag that some have for instance, and 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.800 I'm referring to the ioces here, some have started fairly 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:54.400 early and their mitigation METHA mitigation programs have involved things 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:58.280 such as working with third party detection technologies, whether it's 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:02.200 to develop drones to sensor, So there has been a 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:05.840 lot that has happened in that field. When it comes 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:10.960 to THENCS in all fairness, iconing one that has done 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.080 to the same level that an IOC has done. 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:18.080 So there's the pressure coming from investors, which impacts some companies. 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:21.320 But then there's policy, and there's international policy, and one 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:24.560 of the places where countries come together and talk about 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:28.120 climate is at the COP meetings. So last year COP 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.720 twenty eight in Dubai, methane featured quite heavily and this 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:35.800 certainly could be a place where targets and methane emission 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:40.200 reductions would really come from at a national oil company level. 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:43.640 Can you talk a bit about what those discussions were 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:47.680 last year at cop when in regard to methane specifically. 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:51.000 Sure you are correct, methane was really in the spotlight 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:54.680 at last year's COP and just to recap a couple 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:57.360 of the things that were agreed and happened there when 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.480 it comes to methane. So we had the Global Methane Pledge, 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:04.720 which increased the number of countries that are now adhering 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:07.440 to that. So the last time I checked that was 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.400 one hundred and fifty eight and the Global Methane Pledge 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:14.680 they are aiming for reducing methane across all emitting sectors 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:17.720 by thirty percent by twenty thirty and the countries that 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.960 signed the pledge they agreed to have more transparent policies 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:27.320 and to pursue methane reduction efforts. We also had the 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:30.640 launch of the Oil and Gas Decarbonization Charter, which is 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:34.880 a company led initiative, and we also heard about progress 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:40.000 in terms of financing, so the Methane Finance Sprint that 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.480 was an initiative that was launched by the US government 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:47.119 and then invited other governments as well as financial institutions 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:51.080 and the private sector to contribute in we've heard that, 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:56.000 but by COP twenty they've raised one billion in in funding. 0:16:55.840 --> 0:17:01.360 Specifically to address methane emissions and missions more on the 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:03.880 oil and gas side and targeting these leaks or across 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:05.240 everything including agriculture. 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:08.120 This was across all sectors. You are correct, But one 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:11.720 thing I would also like to highlight. Despite this figure, 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:16.360 which to me seems large, We've seen analysis done by 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:20.399 the Climate Policy Initiative, and their analysis has shown that 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:23.840 in order to reach fossil fuel methane abatement, we need 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:27.160 to invest about eleven point two billion a year. 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:29.640 So this reminds me a bit of Austin Powers, where 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:32.920 even the originally says one million dollars and everyone kind 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.159 of chuckles because it's not quite enough money. So just 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:38.240 now you said one billion dollars and I'm quite impressed, 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:40.320 and then you're telling me it needs to be eleven 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:44.320 billion dollars, So maybe I should temper my exuberance over 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:47.000 that amount of money, which then leads us to then 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:49.320 there are these targets, there's money being raised, there are 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:52.199 things being done, perhaps not quickly, enough in order to 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:54.840 reach some of these targets. Can you talk a little 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:59.520 bit about how one goes about tracking progress in this 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:01.840 space and whether or not this is something that's going 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:04.639 to come up repeatedly at cop or if there is 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:10.119 another forum for the pressure in progress to continue on 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:11.320 methane reduction. 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:15.119 Sure. So again, for the past year, there have been 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:19.680 a number of events that have focused on methane specifically. 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:21.879 So we also had a forum in Geneva that was 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:26.400 looking at specifically add methane from these three main emitting sectors, 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:30.359 so oil and gas, coll energy, and agriculture. I think 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:33.840 progress is something that at a very high level might 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:37.359 be it would be where more work needs to be done. 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:39.600 So we know, you know, for the companies, like we said, 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:44.040 they had targets, they have shareholder responsibility and they do 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:48.160 report year after year how they've done against those targets. 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:52.000 But if we're talking more collectively, I think because we've 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:55.160 only had you know, more and more pressure and more 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:58.080 countries joining the methane Pledge last year, were yet to 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.800 see how things have evolved. But there is there are 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:06.760 standardized frameworks that are available to oil and gas companies 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:09.879 for them to voluntarily join those and that would be 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.680 a way, for instance, show progress. So one of these 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.080 frameworks that I'm referring to is the Oil and Gas 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:20.160 Methane Partnership two point zero, and that is a standardized 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:24.080 reporting framework for methane emissions from oil and gas assets. 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:28.400 The beauty of OGMP so they do have five reporting levels, 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:30.520 and the beauty of that is that a company can 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:33.080 join at any level, so they don't really five is 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:35.000 the highest, but they don't have to start at one 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:37.680 and work their way up although to five. They can 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:42.280 start at whatever level fits best with the company's understanding 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:46.280 of operational emissions. So these levels they start off as 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:50.399 being very you know, aggregated reporting, and then by level 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:53.960 four they already need to measure source level emissions. A 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:56.280 level five they will need to do a site level 0:19:56.560 --> 0:20:00.919 measurement of their emissions and carry out what's called reconciliation, 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:04.199 so that is comparing the site level measurement with the 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:07.359 sum of all the source level measurements and understand whether 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:11.200 there are any discrepancies and explain why those discrepancies appear. 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:14.359 Another nice thing about the OGMP is that they're not 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:18.760 technology restrictive in any way, so companies do have plenty 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:21.199 of options to choose when it comes to detection technology, 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:23.679 and they can even use satellites provided that they have 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:25.320 the right resolution. 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:28.639 So has the OGMP been popular? In effect? Who's in 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:29.240 the OGMP? 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:33.000 So the OGMP has attracted companies that make up about 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:36.879 forty percent of the world's oil and gas production. But 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:41.560 I would have to say that some important names are 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:44.920 still missing from the list of companies. So it's mostly 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:49.840 the upstream producers and quite a lot actually of midstream producers. 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:52.720 But like I was saying, we're yet to see companies 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:56.080 like Saudi Aramco or Petro China joining the OGMP two 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:59.760 point zero. And these companies they're important to the global 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:05.440 gas market. For instance, Aramco is the largest supplier in 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:07.840 the Kingdom and they do have a target to increase 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:11.359 their gas sells by sixty percent by twenty thirty. So 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:13.760 I think in order to stay relevant, they'll need to 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:17.040 attract more of the of other large companies. 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:20.760 So what is the OGMP really in effect doing. Is 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:24.200 it just reporting of data so that we can track 0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:28.480 progress or are they helping these companies actually achieve their goals? 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:31.960 So the ODMP data will be used in conjunction with 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:35.119 IMEO when there will be they'll be releasing this quite 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:38.560 soon and but it won't be anything by asset, so 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:41.120 you would know that they're reporting and maybe the number 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:43.800 of emissions, but it won't be anything more transparent than 0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:47.040 that unless the company opts in for it. Now with OGMP, 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:50.440 when they reach the level five, that's quite important for 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:54.120 the EU regulations because level five OGMP is already compliant 0:21:54.119 --> 0:21:57.920 with what the EU is saying about methane regulations for importers. 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:00.000 So if you have level five, you're kind of fine. 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:02.760 You can still continue to import to the EU after 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:05.159 the rules kick in, and you don't have if a 0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:07.480 member state wants to buy gas from you don't have 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:10.040 to pay a fine. And the other thing with them, 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:13.040 apart from the EU import, is that the level five 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:16.480 also gives you responsibly sourced gas attributes, so you can 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:19.359 trade that, so they're kind of beyond the just like 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:20.560 the reporting. 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:23.119 So you had just noted the standards that the EU 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:27.520 has for any imported oil products. Would this be the 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:29.720 most stringent standard that we find globally? 0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:34.560 So you are correct. The EU has adopted methane regulations 0:22:34.600 --> 0:22:38.760 and in quite a unique move they're targeting not only 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:42.560 the domestic production, but they're also targeting importers. So by 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:46.320 twenty twenty seven, the European Union has the aim of 0:22:46.400 --> 0:22:50.080 building a methane transparency database. So what that means is 0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:53.359 that sellers looking to export the gas to the European 0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:56.320 Union they will have to disclose their methane intensity and 0:22:56.320 --> 0:22:58.840 they'll also have to disclose the methods that they've used 0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:01.960 to measure their intent city. So it's all about transparency. 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:06.800