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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. Welcome to step I

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Speaker 1: never told you question if I hurt you. Today, we

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Speaker 1: are so thrilled to be joined by friend of the show,

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Speaker 1: contributor to the show, Friend I r L.

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Speaker 2: Joey.

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Speaker 3: Welcome, joe Thanks for having me. Oh my god, I'm

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Speaker 3: so honored I get the friend I r L title. Now, yes,

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Speaker 3: we've officially all met.

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Speaker 1: We were recently in New York and we have officially

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Speaker 1: all met irl, even though I was like, oh really,

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Speaker 1: we haven't already, And.

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Speaker 4: To be fair, I had met Joey you before, so

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Speaker 4: just saying in the I r L.

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Speaker 5: That is not to put that as like a competition

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Speaker 5: or anything.

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Speaker 1: But you know, Samantha, geez correct, Okay, never forget you

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Speaker 1: won't let me.

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Speaker 5: Of course. Yes, I'm very excited to talk about this, Joey.

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Speaker 1: There are a couple of things we're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: come back and revisit with you soon. One is that

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Speaker 1: since being a guest on our Sex and the City episode,

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Speaker 1: you have since Binge watched Oh.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, correct, I did.

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Speaker 3: I did, And that is what I pitched this episode

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Speaker 3: as it's not a sex in the City episode, but

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Speaker 3: it is a.

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Speaker 5: It is also kind of a Sex in the City

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Speaker 5: episode because again, yeah, you.

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Speaker 3: Guys had me on your show back in spring, and

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Speaker 3: I watched one episode and then like a couple weeks later,

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Speaker 3: I was like, now I'm just curious. I need to

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Speaker 3: go back and watch like the first couple episodes and

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Speaker 3: see what the show is really about. And then cut

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Speaker 3: to like two months later I had seen the entire show,

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Speaker 3: and yeah, I will say I did make a note

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Speaker 3: in my outline here that says apologize to straight.

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Speaker 5: Women because I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 3: I did dismiss the show for a very long time

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Speaker 3: as it's for straight people. I'm not watching this. Why

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Speaker 3: would I watch Sex and the City That was fantastic.

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Speaker 3: I again, I'm sorry straight women. I forget y'all have

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Speaker 3: y'all have some serious game when it comes to the

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Speaker 3: rom com the rom com circuit, I don't know, I

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Speaker 3: like it, but something again, I think like this is

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Speaker 3: something that really because this show really really stuck with me.

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Speaker 3: I will say, like, this is a weird ear. This

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Speaker 3: was a weird summer. The show was maybe one of

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Speaker 3: the things that was keeping me saying this summer and listeners,

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Speaker 3: this may shock you, but I am currently single uh.

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Speaker 3: And you know, obviously a reason you guys talk about

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Speaker 3: the show, and a big reason why it holds up

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Speaker 3: and it's still so popular is because a lot of

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Speaker 3: these experiences are so universal and still hold up and

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Speaker 3: are still sort of things that I have experienced, I've

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Speaker 3: seen my friend's experience. You know, even when you cut

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Speaker 3: through all the weird nineties stuff that doesn't hold up

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Speaker 3: super well.

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Speaker 4: Or.

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Speaker 3: You know, the way dynamics have changed, it's still something

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Speaker 3: that at the end of the day, like very clearly resonates.

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Speaker 5: And so anyways, this is the other thing is I

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Speaker 5: finished the show and immediately went I could do that.

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Speaker 5: I love this, I love everything.

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Speaker 4: But first of all, let's talk about the power of

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Speaker 4: streaming and how it really does bring back old series

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Speaker 4: because this would have never happened.

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Speaker 5: You would have, maybe to be fair, syndication happened.

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Speaker 4: And that's part of the reason I got into Sex

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Speaker 4: and the City because I never originally watched it, but

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Speaker 4: then I watched the syndication when it came out, the

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Speaker 4: very like edited version of Sex and the City. So

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Speaker 4: it's always kind of been there, but this level, like

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Speaker 4: where you can actually binge it and not have to

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Speaker 4: wait I think I actually went after I watched it

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Speaker 4: in syndication and bought the DVDs, not even playing like

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Speaker 4: I went and bought every single season on DVD because

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Speaker 4: I was also that person without streaming, and this is

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Speaker 4: how old I am. I have them somewhere, but I

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Speaker 4: just love that it also is relevant enough, like there's

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Speaker 4: still things that's outdated, but the other things is like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: that line is too hard, and you're like, this is

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Speaker 4: thirty thirty years old, twenty years old. Why do I

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Speaker 4: think this is relevant?

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Speaker 5: Yes, Samantha, I've already told you why. It told me.

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Speaker 5: It took me a little.

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Speaker 3: Bit to finish the last season because of.

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Speaker 5: Some parallels that were happening in my life.

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Speaker 3: But uh yeah, I will say I did. I do

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Speaker 3: remember distinctly, like going to the library and getting the

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Speaker 3: DVD version of like the old seasons of Doctor Who

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Speaker 3: when I was in high school, because I think streaming

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Speaker 3: it just sort of started up then, but my parents

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Speaker 3: were like, no, we're not paying for this, so I

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Speaker 3: have I have bought, I have gotten the DVD set.

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Speaker 3: I have had that experience that.

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Speaker 5: Makes me feel better.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but and then kind of to go back to

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Speaker 3: hopefully not making y'all feel too old again. I was

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Speaker 3: going to say the other thing about the show that

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Speaker 3: really stook out to me was there was a moment

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Speaker 3: watching it where I realized, like, something that I find

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Speaker 3: really interesting because it is interesting, of course to see

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Speaker 3: the things that are similar and the things that have changed,

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Speaker 3: but in terms of the things that have changed.

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Speaker 5: I realized I.

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Speaker 3: Was kind of raised by the generational women that would

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Speaker 3: have been around the same age as the characters, or

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Speaker 3: like in their twenties thirties when the show is coming out,

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Speaker 3: And so I think it is really interesting to see

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Speaker 3: how much like the expectations and sort of conversation around

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Speaker 3: dating and sex and marriage and all of that was

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Speaker 3: for me growing up, and how much that was not putting,

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Speaker 3: you know, too much on this show.

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Speaker 5: But this show was.

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Speaker 3: Really something that I think was like showcasing that conversation

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Speaker 3: on a mainstream sort of platform for kind of the

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Speaker 3: first time and really like allowing women to have these

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Speaker 3: conversations about sexuality and dating. And so yeah, once again,

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Speaker 3: this is this episode's premise is becoming at a big

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Speaker 3: like I think I could be carry Bradshaw. And then

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Speaker 3: every moment I sat down to write this doubting myself

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Speaker 3: and being like, who am I? Who am I to

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Speaker 3: pretend like I know all there is to know about dating,

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Speaker 3: and then remembering that Carrie is also very bad at

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Speaker 3: dating in the show. So I think, I think maybe

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Speaker 3: I'm perfect for this. That being said, obviously, dating is

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Speaker 3: such a strange thing to write about because it is

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Speaker 3: such an individual experience and it's hard to make general claims. Again,

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Speaker 3: even kind of what I've said so far about like

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Speaker 3: how like the conversation about dating when I was growing up.

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Speaker 3: Obviously that's going to be different for each individual person.

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Speaker 3: Like I grew up in a fairly progressive environment. I

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Speaker 3: think like that really affected how that kind of came

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Speaker 3: across in my life. Was raised by a femine mom,

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Speaker 3: you know. And also there's all these you know, there's

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Speaker 3: different social factors in the fact how we date and

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Speaker 3: who we're dating and where we're dating, et cetera. So

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Speaker 3: I don't mean this to be like a generalization. This

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Speaker 3: is more or less kind of supposed to be me

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Speaker 3: commenting on what I'm seeing in the statistics, what I'm

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Speaker 3: seeing in my life, and what I'm seeing from talking

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Speaker 3: to my friends. So for context, I'm in my mid twenties.

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Speaker 3: I live in New York City. I will say personally,

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Speaker 3: I don't have a strong desire to get married. It

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Speaker 3: would be nice if it happened, if I found the

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Speaker 3: right person, but it's not like my number one priority

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Speaker 3: I think when it comes to dating, which I think

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Speaker 3: has definitely been a big difference that I've seen.

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Speaker 5: I'm also I'm bisexual.

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Speaker 3: I've dated people of all genders personally, and I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: get a little bit more into this later. I have

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Speaker 3: kind of made it a boundary for myself. I only

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Speaker 3: date other queer people, so I'm I don't date straight men,

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Speaker 3: which has been interesting to say the least. But all

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Speaker 3: of this obviously affects like how I date, because yeah, again,

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Speaker 3: like somebody who's listening to this, who if you're a

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Speaker 3: straight woman listening to this, you're gonna have a very

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Speaker 3: different experience than I am. If you're a gay man

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Speaker 3: listening to this, you're gonna have a very different experience.

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Speaker 3: If you are, like lesbian who only dates women, have

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Speaker 3: a different.

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Speaker 5: Experience than I am.

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Speaker 3: If you're somebody who's this gender, you're gonna have a

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Speaker 3: different experience. But again, something I came across when thinking

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Speaker 3: about this this summer and talking to most of my

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Speaker 3: friends about their dating lives, everybody seems super miserable.

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Speaker 5: And some of that is just a given.

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Speaker 3: Some of that is the fact that being a young

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Speaker 3: person and trying to date is always gonna be hard,

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Speaker 3: and especially in the world we live in now. But

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Speaker 3: I do think there's something that's like changed about dating culture,

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Speaker 3: uh for whether you want to say for gen Z

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Speaker 3: or just for like twenty twenty four dating culture or whatever.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. I think

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Speaker 3: it's just different. And again I started by talking about

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Speaker 3: Sex and the City because I think watching that show,

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Speaker 3: it was coming out at a time where we also

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Speaker 3: were seeing these norms changing and the conversation changing, and

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Speaker 3: we were seeing these characters trying to navigate those changes

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Speaker 3: as they were happening. And I think, again, those changes

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Speaker 3: weren't necessarily bad.

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Speaker 5: I would argue they were for the best.

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Speaker 3: I think, like, at the end of the day, anything

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Speaker 3: that leads to people being more sexually liberated or just

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Speaker 3: like personally liberated in their identity and their life, like,

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Speaker 3: that's a good thing. But it's a new landscape to navigate.

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Speaker 3: So this is my attempts to break down some of

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Speaker 3: these changes. Going back again to the end of the summer,

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Speaker 3: there was this moment where there was a story that

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Speaker 3: was pulling up on social media about how New York

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Speaker 3: City is supposedly the worst city to be single in.

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Speaker 3: I found a number of like serious news publications.

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Speaker 5: That wrote about this. There was a Timeout.

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Speaker 3: Article about it. It was all over Twitter. You know,

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Speaker 3: it was a fun thing to share, especially if you're single,

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Speaker 3: just being like, ah see, this is the problem. But

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Speaker 3: at the end of the day, it kind of confused

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Speaker 3: me because, look, it's not like it's great being single

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Speaker 3: in New York.

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Speaker 5: But I will say I think like, it is a city.

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Speaker 3: Where there are a lot of young people, there's a

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Speaker 3: lot of single young people, and there's a lot of

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Speaker 3: things happening where like you can go out and meet

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Speaker 3: other people that are also single and maybe have similar

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Speaker 3: interests in you. So I don't know, At least to me,

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Speaker 3: I was like, saying it's the worst city to be

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Speaker 3: single in felt a little bit like a stretch. So

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Speaker 3: I did some research to find this actual survey. Turns

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Speaker 3: out it's from a site called fetish Finder, which is

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Speaker 3: primarily a BDSM blog.

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Speaker 5: I have not been able to find the.

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Speaker 3: Actual survey with the like concrete results and who they

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Speaker 3: were interviewing and who whatever. So Fetish Finder, if you

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Speaker 3: reach out to me and send me the full study.

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Speaker 5: I'm happy to look at it. But I will say

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Speaker 5: this sort.

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Speaker 3: Of made me pause for a sec because I was like,

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Speaker 3: this doesn't seem this doesn't seem right. And then so

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Speaker 3: I did find a article from Secret Philadelphia that was

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Speaker 3: talking about this survey, because Philadelphia was also listed is

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Speaker 3: one of the worst cities, and they did say that

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Speaker 3: researchers conducted a survey that focused on six key metrics

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Speaker 3: and that was one population of single people too, likelihood

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Speaker 3: of marriage, breathe, the annual divorce rate, for the rate

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Speaker 3: of individuals actively searching for a relationship, five quality of living,

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Speaker 3: six cost of living.

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Speaker 5: Those last two I'm not going to talk about because

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Speaker 5: that is okay, that's understandable.

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Speaker 3: But the thing that really stigrated me was this emphasis

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Speaker 3: on likelihood of marriage and divorce rate, because at least

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Speaker 3: to me, I was like, I don't think like that

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Speaker 3: brings up the question is wanting to get married and

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Speaker 3: stay married and not get a divorce, Like is that necessary?

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Speaker 3: To have a healthy romantic and sexual life.

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Speaker 5: Like to me, that seems sort of obsolete.

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Speaker 3: Like I feel like the divorce rate in the city

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Speaker 3: I'm living in is not going to affect how I,

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Speaker 3: a twenty something year old is going to like go

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Speaker 3: about going out first dates, you know.

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Speaker 4: One, I wonder what what was the Did they say

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Speaker 4: who the best, where the best place was to date?

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Speaker 4: Did they say what city was the best? Or did

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Speaker 4: you note that it was definitely?

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Speaker 3: I remember I was surprised because they were like like

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Speaker 3: they basically listed just every major city as like a

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Speaker 3: bad city to date in. I was like, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 3: top ten were cities. It says number one New York,

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Speaker 3: number two, Los Angeles, number three, Philadelphia, number four, Chicago,

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Speaker 3: number five, San Antonio, and then Fort Worth, San Diego, Houston, Phoenix,

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Speaker 3: and San Jose.

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Speaker 5: So Atlanta, you guys do not make the cut.

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Speaker 3: Congrats, But again.

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Speaker 5: To me, this just kind of looks like a list

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Speaker 5: of some major cities.

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Speaker 4: I think, one more reason for you to move to Atlanta.

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Speaker 5: It seems oh.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sorry, this is actually just say exactly that's the

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Speaker 3: that's the takeaway from all this. I did find a

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Speaker 3: New York Post article where they talked about this survey,

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Speaker 3: and in the survey they talked to two people that

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Speaker 3: sort of were like, yes, exactly, that's so right. The

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Speaker 3: two people they interviewed were a twenty three year old

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Speaker 3: and a twenty four year old, and they were both

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Speaker 3: talking about how like they didn't really want to commit

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Speaker 3: to a relationship or whatever people were and I was like,

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Speaker 3: maybe the problem is just that they're twenty three and

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Speaker 3: twenty four, and most people at that age are pretty

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Speaker 3: on the middle. Again, that's just my take. I this

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Speaker 3: study does not worry me too much in the state

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Speaker 3: of what it's like to be a single person in

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Speaker 3: New York or any of the other city mentioned.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, I love that this conversation because honestly, Annie,

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Speaker 4: I just had a throwback on when before I started

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Speaker 4: this show, before I started in or maybe it was

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Speaker 4: right when I was starting with Sminty that you myself

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Speaker 4: another friend of ours had a conversation about how we

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Speaker 4: need to normalize women being sexually active and really like

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Speaker 4: loving sex and all of that. On top of the

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Speaker 4: fact that we also had the conversation that we also

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Speaker 4: need to normalize people who do not need sex, like

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Speaker 4: this is the beginning of your asexuality conversation on our show,

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Speaker 4: not Your Journey, just the show Annie, and I just

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Speaker 4: remember that that was such a big point of our

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Speaker 4: general conversation with our friends, Like it became a whole

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Speaker 4: conversation about like, we know, sex, and the city had

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Speaker 4: like brunch talks where they openly talked about their sex

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Speaker 4: life and this is so amazing. And then coming back

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Speaker 4: to but like, let's stop shaming women who were like, no,

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Speaker 4: I'm good without being overly sexual. I love like both

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Speaker 4: of those things were going like this flip side of

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Speaker 4: both celebrating, you know, women in sexual desires, but also

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Speaker 4: celebrating in the fact that that's not important necessarily a

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Speaker 4: need like for everyone. Like, I think it's so fun

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Speaker 4: that we do have these conversations because it does open

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Speaker 4: up so many avenues.

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Speaker 5: It's interesting that you brought up the the not having sex.

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Speaker 3: A little bit too, because another thing that I keep

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Speaker 3: seeing is there's all these weird like think pieces that

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Speaker 3: keep going around that are like gen Z is not

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Speaker 3: having as.

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Speaker 5: Much sex as previous generations, and I don't.

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Speaker 3: That always is so weird to me because I'm sort

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Speaker 3: of like, okay, again, what is your metrics for how

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Speaker 3: you're asking people, because I think all of the things

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Speaker 3: you're describing, there are things that happen in every generation.

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Speaker 3: There are people that decide like, this isn't for me,

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Speaker 3: I'd rather There are people that decide like, yes, I'd

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Speaker 3: rather wait till marriage.

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Speaker 5: There's people that decide.

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Speaker 3: I'm not as into sex as people that are a

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Speaker 3: sexual etcetera, etcetera.

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Speaker 5: There's people that just.

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Speaker 3: Decide to not prioritize dating, and at the same time,

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Speaker 3: like there's people that are doing all the normal things

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Speaker 3: or you know, engaging in hookup culture or whatnot. You

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Speaker 3: have your you know, you have your Samanthas, and you

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Speaker 3: have your your Charlotte's and every generation on this Samantha.

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Speaker 3: But there does seem to be a weird obsession with like, oh,

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Speaker 3: gen Z isn't having sex.

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Speaker 5: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I think in my my friend group, my close friends,

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Speaker 1: what I have seen that I feel is different is

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Speaker 1: when we were younger, we all thought we wanted the

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Speaker 1: kids in the marriage, and now I have I'd say

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Speaker 1: at least fifty percent of my friends are like, actually,

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Speaker 1: I'm really good without that, and or like, if that happens,

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Speaker 1: it's nice, But I'm fine being single or going about

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Speaker 1: my own my work or whatever it is. We did

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Speaker 1: a show on online dating and people were telling their

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Speaker 1: stories and I was like, why the could anybody put

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Speaker 1: up with this?

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Speaker 5: This is ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: Well that's a perfect segue because my next section is

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Speaker 3: about online dating culture and online hookup culture. So this

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Speaker 3: is where I think it's interesting. And I would love

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Speaker 3: to hear both of your perspective on this too, because

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Speaker 3: I my entire Tinder came out, like Tinder was released

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Speaker 3: in twenty twelve, I was in middle school. My entire

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Speaker 3: teen years, dating apps were kind of seen they were

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Speaker 3: like a new thing, but they were like becoming normalized.

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Speaker 3: They were becoming a part of the culture, and I

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Speaker 3: think especially they were starting to become very heavily associated

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Speaker 3: with like millennial dating culture. And again, at the time,

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Speaker 3: it was sort of seen as this new novel thing.

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Speaker 3: By the time I was getting to their age where

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Speaker 3: I was starting to date, it was just sort of

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Speaker 3: seen as like the norm, Like it wasn't like everybody

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Speaker 3: you know, you turn eighteen and you download Hine or whatever.

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Speaker 3: And again, I do think something that is that genuinely

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Speaker 3: is a big change that has happened is that.

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Speaker 5: If you look at the statistics.

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Speaker 3: Now in twenty twenty four, gen Z is using dating

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Speaker 3: apps significantly less than older age groups, when again, when

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Speaker 3: it was launched in twenty twelve, the app was almost

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Speaker 3: entirely geared towards millennials who would have been in that

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Speaker 3: eighteen to twenty five age group.

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Speaker 5: That now, that.

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Speaker 3: Eighteen to twenty five age group is not the main

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Speaker 3: demographic of Tinder. And I will say I use dating apps.

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Speaker 3: I think dating apps are fun. I think there definitely

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Speaker 3: is like a market for them. But I think just

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Speaker 3: sort of culturally, people are beginning to feel very burnt

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Speaker 3: out from dating apps. And part of this is, I

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Speaker 3: don't know if you guys remember this, but like four

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Speaker 3: years ago, like nobody could leave their houses and everybody's

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Speaker 3: social interaction was online.

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Speaker 5: I do remember that. I know it was crazy. People

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Speaker 5: seem to be forgetting.

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Speaker 3: So who's to say I was twenty when the pandemic started.

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Speaker 3: I And if you look at the age demographic of

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Speaker 3: gen Z, a lot of gen Z was finishing up

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Speaker 3: high school starting college in their late teens early twenties,

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Speaker 3: and for a lot of people, again that is when

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Speaker 3: you start using dating apps. That's when you start like

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Speaker 3: really experimenting with dating and meeting new people. And for

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Speaker 3: a lot of people, all of a sudden everything was online.

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Speaker 5: You were only really able to meet people online.

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Speaker 3: And so I think it does make sense that Tinder

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Speaker 3: did reach its peak user base in twenty twenty one

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Speaker 3: and twenty twenty two, so sort of this time when

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Speaker 3: a lot of people were still following like social distancing

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Speaker 3: rules and whatnot. Not going to get into the state

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Speaker 3: of how we're handling COVID now that's a whole other conversation,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, I think like we need to remember a

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Speaker 3: lot of gen z we spent those sort of formative

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Speaker 3: years when we were supposed to be experiencing these kind

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Speaker 3: of connections for the first time, or really experiencing like

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Speaker 3: serious connections like this for the first time completely online.

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Speaker 3: I know a lot of people that had like their

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Speaker 3: first relationships start as online relationships during lockdown, and there's

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Speaker 3: nothing wrong with that. I am like all for people

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Speaker 3: that have long distance online relationships, I will say a

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Speaker 3: lot of them are not together anymore. I do know

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Speaker 3: a couple that are still together, so you know, it

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Speaker 3: does work for some people, But I think a lot

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Speaker 3: of times, Like again, that worked for when that was

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Speaker 3: the only option, but it gets old, and I think

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Speaker 3: part of the burnout with dating apps comes from the

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Speaker 3: fact that we're all just tired because that was the

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Speaker 3: only option for like a solid two years to meet people.

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Speaker 5: That being said, of course, like I'm sure everybody.

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Speaker 3: Listening to this knows at least one couple that got

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Speaker 3: together through a dating app. I like, I have a few,

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Speaker 3: like really close friends in my life that met their

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Speaker 3: partners through dating apps and are like in healthy, happy relationships.

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Speaker 3: So clearly people are still using these apps to go

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Speaker 3: out and meet people.

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Speaker 5: But also we live in a.

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Speaker 3: Weird late capitalist healscape where all these companies are obsessed

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Speaker 3: with constantly expanding and growing, and I think what they're

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Speaker 3: starting to see is that money is plateauing. These companies

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Speaker 3: like are seeing that their userbase is sort of hitting

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Speaker 3: a peek. People are turning to other things, and they're

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Speaker 3: kind of panicking, which.

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Speaker 5: Is how we got Earlier this year.

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Speaker 3: There was a weird moment when Bumble decided the next

417
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Speaker 3: the best way to advertise to gen Z was to

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Speaker 3: put up all these billboards that were like discouraging celibacy.

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Speaker 5: Was a weird moment. This was back in April.

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Speaker 3: It's been dubbed the bumble Fumble, which I kind of love, but.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it was. I think like.

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Speaker 3: Part of the frustration I've been hearing with dating apps

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Speaker 3: is that a lot of these apps are doing these

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Speaker 3: weird sort of marketing techniques to try and get people

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Speaker 3: to stay on. They are messing with the algorithms in

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Speaker 3: a way where they want you to pay to get

427
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Speaker 3: like the premium access so you can get your best

428
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Speaker 3: matches because they need to keep making money even though

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Speaker 3: the thing that they're doing they've kind of reached the

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Speaker 3: limit of how much it works.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we actually did do I think a Monday money

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Speaker 4: on the bumble Fumble, as well as like all of

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Speaker 4: the pay for essentially pay for play. I know that's

434
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Speaker 4: a very like not taboo way to say it, but

435
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Speaker 4: like the way that the dating apps have become like

436
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 4: you can't just find a person, but if you want

437
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 4: to superior person, you'll have to pay the apps. And

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Speaker 4: some have actually touted that as a security measure, which

439
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 4: is hilarious because they were like anybody can pay, like

440
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Speaker 4: that's the reason black markets exist in the first place.

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Speaker 5: But all of those conversations.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's the thing too, Like, look, I'm not

443
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 3: going to judge anybody based on whatever we're doing the

444
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 3: other dating Like, I've never.

445
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 5: Paid for a dating app.

446
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,399
Speaker 3: I don't see a world in which you need to

447
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,199
Speaker 3: pay for a dating app. We talked about the bumble

448
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 3: Fumble as well on there are no girls on the

449
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:40,640
Speaker 3: Internet with fort shit and.

450
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 5: As well kind of.

451
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 3: All of these weird moves these companies are making, and

452
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 3: the fact that, you know, something we talked about in

453
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 3: the show too is the fact that a lot of

454
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 3: people seem to be burnt out with these apps. And

455
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,160
Speaker 3: I do think part of it is that the apps

456
00:23:58,160 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 3: are sort of making it weird. They're really trying to

457
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 3: get you to pay money. They're trying to get you

458
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 3: to like subscribe to these premium accounts. But at the

459
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 3: same time, I do think it is important to remember, like, yeah,

460
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 3: we're all coming off of a significant period of time

461
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,719
Speaker 3: where we were only interacting with people online and that

462
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 3: gets old.

463
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 5: And I think like a lot of people are really craving.

464
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 3: You know, meeting people quote unquote naturally or like in public,

465
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 3: or meeting people just sort of spontaneously.

466
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,160
Speaker 5: Again, I see, you're both shaking your heads.

467
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 6: I'd love to hear your I'm making no, we just

468
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 6: don't want to meet people, or that too. That too,

469
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 6: this introvert is very heavily staying in my house.

470
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 3: This also, I think it's fascinating because I will say,

471
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 3: I was gonna say the top I I'm ultimately somebody

472
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 3: who is very much pessimist in my life, but dating

473
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,439
Speaker 3: is maybe one of the one spaces where I'm like

474
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 3: more optimistic, I think than most people, just.

475
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 5: Because I'm like, I love to meet people. I'm an extrovert.

476
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 3: I think like, even if it doesn't work out, it's

477
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:03,160
Speaker 3: always nice to meet new people.

478
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 5: And like, see what I see who's out there?

479
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 4: You are a young extrovert ready to take it on

480
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 4: the world and meet new people. I think again, this

481
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 4: is a lot to do with like personality, but also changes.

482
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 5: And that brings me to this question.

483
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 4: Are you going out to meet people if you're not

484
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 4: using apps? Is that actually happening? Are you going to bars?

485
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 4: Are people going back to bars? Is that a thing?

486
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 3: People are going back to bars? I will say, I think, like,

487
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 3: see this is the question. I'm getting that too, because

488
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 3: I'll say, like, I'm somebody I'll go out to bars

489
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 3: with friends. I'll go to I've they've done a lot

490
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 3: of like local events. Again, like I'm queer, I mostly

491
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 3: go to events that are focused towards like the queer community.

492
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 5: But I think.

493
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 3: There really has been kind of a emphasis on trying

494
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 3: to go out and meet people, yeah, at bars or

495
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 3: like there was like a tweet that I remember seeing

496
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 3: that was like we need to like yeah, we just

497
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 3: need to bring back people having like house parties and

498
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 3: people need to get house parties, which is.

499
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 5: Like, yeah, no, that's like I don't know.

500
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 3: I'll go to house parties, you meet friends, and friends,

501
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 3: you meet likes these normal ways that people were like

502
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 3: meeting people and dating and people. And I think, again,

503
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 3: I don't want to blame too much of this on

504
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 3: like twenty twenty in Lockdown, but I think we are

505
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 3: all still a little bit socially stunted from that, and

506
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 3: I think part of the sort of awkwardness around dating

507
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 3: right now is coming from that and coming from.

508
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 5: The back that we were all like.

509
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 3: Still kind of learning how to be human skin and

510
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 3: learning how to interact.

511
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 5: However, I will say, on.

512
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 3: The app side of the question, while we're seeing these

513
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 3: sort of like old guard quote unquote dating apps like

514
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 3: Tinder and Hinge and Bumble losing users or like at

515
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 3: least their numbers starting to plateau.

516
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 5: Something that has changed recently is.

517
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 3: That there's a lot more like specific apps that are

518
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 3: either geared mainly at like cookups or non traditional sort

519
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 3: of relationship styles that have seen like an increase in

520
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 3: users and that I find interesting. So a kind of

521
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 3: case study in this is the app Field. If you

522
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 3: haven't heard of Field. It was originally launched in twenty fourteen,

523
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 3: and it was called I don't know how to pronounce

524
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 3: this three ender ThReD. It's like Tinger, but they have

525
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 3: a three instead of the TI. Like it's clearly supposed

526
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 3: to be like like it's it's supposed to be like ooh.

527
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 5: Threesomes have I don't know whatever, but it's it's supposed

528
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 5: to be like cheeky.

529
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 3: But it's an app that is primarily was geared towards

530
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 3: people that were interested in kink or polyamory or you know, exploring.

531
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 5: Multiple partners, et cetera.

532
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 3: Basically any sort of like non traditional or like taboo

533
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 3: type of sex or relationship style. The app is notally

534
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 3: like very pro sex worker and sex positive, and that

535
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 3: is kind of why it's seen a lot of people

536
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,640
Speaker 3: again that are either in sex workspaces or like more

537
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 3: drawn to less traditional forms of sex or whatever relationships

538
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 3: or whatever, have come to this app. Field is again

539
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 3: unlike Tinder and Hinged in all these other apps, it's

540
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 3: one of the few apps that is seen a significant

541
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 3: increase in.

542
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 5: Users the past few years.

543
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 3: So there is this really great article from Cosmopolitan UK

544
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 3: that was called is Field like a mainstream dating app?

545
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 3: Now love that title as somebody who writes how I talk,

546
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 3: But this article points out how the app nearly doubled

547
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 3: its revenue in twenty twenty three, which again very different

548
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 3: from the conversation we're having with other apps.

549
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 5: And I think there's a number of reasons for this.

550
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 5: You guys have kind of talked before on this app

551
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 5: about how some of the.

552
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 3: Lingo that traditionally has been more associated with like underground

553
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 3: taboo lifestyles or like sexual preferences or whatever, has kind

554
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 3: of been making its way into mainstream a lot more.

555
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 3: You guys in an episode I think earlier this year

556
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 3: about like the popularity of U saying like daddy and

557
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 3: mommy all of a sudden, as kind of colloquial words

558
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 3: and how that originally had of course a very much

559
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 3: more explicit not that it's not sexual now, but at

560
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 3: least it seems like it's kind of been toned down

561
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 3: a little bit.

562
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 5: And I find this sort of the fact that Field is.

563
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 3: Becoming more popular really interesting because I think it is

564
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 3: kind of in the same vein of that debate over

565
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 3: whether it's becoming mainstream because people are more open and

566
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 3: more liberated sexually, or it's just becoming a like toned

567
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 3: down version of this thing that people think is like

568
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 3: a and sexy and then they get there and they're

569
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 3: sort of like in over their heads. So going back

570
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 3: to that article from Cosmopolitan, there was a quote that

571
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 3: I think really some of this up that said, for

572
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 3: some of the king community, new members are enthusiastically welcomed

573
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 3: for other Field's recent popularity and makes them feel like

574
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 3: a quote spectacle. One user tells Cosmopolitan UK that some

575
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 3: men quote see women on there as being easy and

576
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 3: too available for sex, and that it has started to

577
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 3: feel like quote a platform for men to throw around

578
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 3: the word dom without understanding it. Another female user agree,

579
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 3: describing Field as quote oversaturated with people with no clue

580
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 3: asking overly intimate questions straight off the bat. So again

581
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 3: I I that is something that's really interesting to me.

582
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 5: Like it's.

583
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 3: I think again going back to that idea of like,

584
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 3: these things are becoming less taboo. These are things that

585
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 3: people are talking about more openly, These are things that

586
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 3: are less stigmatized. But what is that actually doing to

587
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 3: like the people that are interested in these things, that

588
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 3: want to have these communities and want to have these

589
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 3: like more ansular communities. And again, another kind of difference

590
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 3: with Field that I think is interesting is the article

591
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 3: did include this quote from the Field CEO and a Crova,

592
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 3: a female ceo.

593
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 5: You know dating apps. Historically they've had a lot of

594
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 5: problems with misogyny, So maybe that's a good sign.

595
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 3: I don't know, but she was quoted saying, in terms

596
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 3: of scale, there's so much potential for Field, but we

597
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 3: have to make sure people are involved for the right

598
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,959
Speaker 3: reasons and they behave in a certain way. We're not

599
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 3: trying to grow at all cost, which again is very

600
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 3: different from what Tinder and Hinge and Bumble are sort

601
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 3: of prioritizing.

602
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 5: And this maybe.

603
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 3: Gives me hope for the fact that maybe like Field,

604
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 3: won't turn into the next fumble fumble situation.

605
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 2: Uh, But who's to say.

606
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: It's interesting to me because I feel when we've done these,

607
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: when we were looking at what's going on with online dating,

608
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: something has happened in a lot of cases where going

609
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: back to this point of men coming on just to

610
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: throw around the term dom where it's like more men

611
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: than women in a lot of cases, and they'll go

612
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: to where they think the women are, but they will

613
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: tell you anything. And I know I'm generalizing, but I've

614
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: just we've seen this in a lot of cases when

615
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: it was talking about the statistics and men just being like, well,

616
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: there's we must go over here now let's try feel

617
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: So it's sort of like I hope that they're able

618
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: to make the space not become a place where it's

619
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: just dudes who don't care to underst stand the truth

620
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,719
Speaker 1: of it or what it's about. But that is what

621
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: we've seen in a lot of these instances.

622
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 3: I will say a lot of my conclusions at the

623
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 3: end of this are a lot of the problems come

624
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 3: down to the fact that men are still very bad

625
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 3: at respecting boundaries.

626
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 5: But yeah, I think it does kind of bring about.

627
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 3: The question where it's like, how do you navigate like

628
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 3: wanting to as as somebody who's not a sis man,

629
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 3: as somebody who's like a woman or or non binary

630
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 3: or whatever however you identify, Like if you want to

631
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 3: be engaging in more casual dating or casual sex or whatever,

632
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 3: how do you do that in a way that's also

633
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 3: not putting you in a space where like you're with

634
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 3: these men that just kind of like, like the quote said,

635
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 3: sort of just see you as like being quote easy.

636
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 5: I guess this might be a good place.

637
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 3: To bring up my one big dating gap complaint, which

638
00:33:54,720 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 3: is so I brought up at the top I only

639
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 3: date other queer people. That is, I have another episode

640
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 3: I'm doing for you guys at some point about non

641
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 3: binary identity and all of that and kind of how

642
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 3: what that means to me, but also sort of the

643
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 3: state of how I think unfortunately, since people have sort

644
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 3: of taken it and turned it into like a third

645
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 3: checkbox on like you know, if you're like filling out

646
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 3: a form and it says like male female, like they've kind.

647
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 5: Of just made it like a third category instead of really,

648
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 5: We're going to get into that in another episode.

649
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 3: But I have had this weird not weird, I guess

650
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 3: very expected thing happened this past year where I all

651
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 3: of my dating apps, I verily clearly state I'm not

652
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 3: interested in straight men. I am somebody who I consider

653
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 3: myself like trans masculine. I might at some point decide

654
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 3: that I want to take more steps to transition physically

655
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 3: or you know, just socially sort of present more as male.

656
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 3: So I'm not interested in dating straight men because to me,

657
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 3: it's like if you're a man and you are only interested.

658
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 5: In dating.

659
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 3: Women, or you're not interested in dating other CIS men, like,

660
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 3: to me, that just says that you only sort of

661
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 3: see me as like a reduction to what my body is,

662
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 3: and you're not really interested in getting to know me

663
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 3: as a person or whatever. For some reason, this very

664
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 3: very low bar boundary does not seem to communicate to

665
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 3: many men on these data gaps. Because I have done

666
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 3: some of the most ridiculous messages on Hinge, on Tendre,

667
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 3: on field too, I will say one of the most

668
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 3: ridiculous ones is that somebody responded to me and said,

669
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 3: I like to be the little spoon.

670
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 5: Does that make me straight? I'm just gonna leave that

671
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 5: one there. Anyways, and I know I'm not alone.

672
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 3: Here because this is something that I've seen discussed more

673
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 3: and more online, and this is something I've discussed with

674
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 3: friends where I think we're at a weird spot where

675
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 3: and I think, again, I live in a more progressive

676
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 3: environment obviously, so this is kind of more the case

677
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 3: and more than norm there where I think, like, like

678
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 3: something else I see, so and Field is the only

679
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 3: app so far that I've seen that has like allowing

680
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 3: people to do this. But people like, you can put

681
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 3: your sexuality on your your profile and people will say, like,

682
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 3: instead of saying that they're like by or straight, they'll

683
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 3: say they're dinosexual, which means they're only attracted to people

684
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 3: with like.

685
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 5: Vaginas, which I don't know.

686
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 3: Again, to each their own, but to me, that makes

687
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 3: me deeply uncomfortable. That is not something I want to

688
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 3: hear from somebody that I'm trying to date. I can imagine,

689
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 3: especially as like a more binary transperson, that is not.

690
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:47,439
Speaker 5: Something that you want to hear.

691
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 3: But yeah, I just I think, like going back to

692
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 3: that that quote about these men coming in and just

693
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 3: calling them yeah, throwing around the word dom and saying

694
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 3: that going where they think that it'll be easy to

695
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 3: find sex. I think there has been kind of also

696
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 3: a trend of men like finding ways to change the

697
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 3: language and still be objectifying to anybody that they see

698
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,720
Speaker 3: as a woman or quote like a woman light because

699
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, I am aware that

700
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 3: like some especially men, see me and just are sort

701
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 3: of like, okay, you are you are a woman with

702
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 3: short hair, you are a slightly quirky woman. That is

703
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,839
Speaker 3: what your gender is, and that that's also a weird

704
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:27,800
Speaker 3: thing to try and navigate like. That is the reason

705
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 3: why I'm like, I have so many questions, yes, opening

706
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 3: up to the table.

707
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 4: I need I need to clarify that because of the

708
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 4: lag in our recording that I thought you said dino

709
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 4: as in like d dog, and I was like, do

710
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 4: they just really like dinosaurs?

711
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:47,879
Speaker 5: So I was really confused. So I had a kind

712
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 5: of boomer moment.

713
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 4: Then I realized what you said, and that sounds like

714
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,959
Speaker 4: very much a man making something up just to sound

715
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 4: So is it just mainly men who put that as

716
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 4: their sexuality or am I assuming.

717
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 3: I will say, I've only I've only seen cis men

718
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 3: do this so far. Okay, again to each throne, maybe

719
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 3: somebody is like, that's fine by me, I don't care.

720
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 3: To me, that seems weird and reductive and like, at

721
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:14,879
Speaker 3: the end of the day, it does not not seem

722
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,959
Speaker 3: more transphobic to just refer like to you just found

723
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,879
Speaker 3: like a like a progressive way of saying I only

724
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:22,439
Speaker 3: want a date.

725
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, I agree.

726
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 4: There's definitely transphobia in there, misogyny in there, Like way

727
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 4: to put a person down to their private parts, like

728
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,399
Speaker 4: to their genitalia. That's such a weird way, Like you've

729
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 4: obviously just said you don't care about that person, You're

730
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 4: just using them, uh, and their reproductive product. Like it's

731
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 4: such a despicable in every realm, Like it's sexist, transphobic, uh,

732
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 4: like homophobic, all of the things. It's like, what are you?

733
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 4: What is wrong with you? Just go find yourself a flashlight.

734
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 4: This is what you need.

735
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 3: Sorry, Well yeah, it is, like and it's it's one

736
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 3: of those things where I'm.

737
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 5: Like, do you just see like do you just see

738
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 5: queer people?

739
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,479
Speaker 3: Is like being more like again quote unquote like easy

740
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 3: or like sexually.

741
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 5: So you're like, oh, I need to get in there.

742
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 5: That's where I got.

743
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 3: But I will say too, I do know I was

744
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 3: recently talking to like a friend of mine who's cis

745
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 3: gender lesbian, and she was complaining about too, how like

746
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 3: they're keep being CIS men that'll show up on her

747
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 3: dating app like like kind of like she'll be scrolling

748
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 3: through and they'll be like a lot of CIS men

749
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 3: that'll have their things say that they're lesbians even though

750
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 3: they're identifying themselves as CIS men, because they think that's

751
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,240
Speaker 3: the way to go about meeting women that'll be interested

752
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 3: in them somehow.

753
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 4: At that point, I feel like they're just trying to

754
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 4: find a way to get rejection.

755
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 5: It's like a rejection king. Ooh maybe maybe it's a king.

756
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 3: Oh god no, no, this is the like see, this

757
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 3: is bringing back to at the beginning of the year

758
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 3: when I was on talking about all the like TikTok

759
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 3: trends and like different like fashion trends and how I

760
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,800
Speaker 3: like ultimately so a lot of that was connected to

761
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 3: like kink content and like how like especially the tradwife movement,

762
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 3: there's a whole weird kind of side of that that

763
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 3: is related to kink content.

764
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's we can't scart, which which leads me to

765
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:20,280
Speaker 5: my next point, which is we live in a really

766
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 5: dub world right now.

767
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 3: And I think ultimately, like as much as we want

768
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 3: to speculate and talk about how these apps are working

769
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 3: and how like social dynamics are changing, and how like

770
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 3: what people are looking for and dating is changing, at

771
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 3: the end of the day, if you're somebody who's trying

772
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 3: to date men, trying to date SIS men, we need

773
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 3: also look at the culture that is happening with SIS

774
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 3: straight men right now. And like, I don't know if

775
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,320
Speaker 3: you guys know this, but we just had it pretty

776
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 3: significant presidential election in which you know, myself and a

777
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 3: lot of people were very, very scared and disappointed with

778
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 3: the outcome for many reasons.

779
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 5: And a big part of that is.

780
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 3: Questions about the future of reproductive rights and bodily autonomy.

781
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 3: And you know, right now are having this Supreme Court

782
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 3: Court case going on about access to gender firming care,

783
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 3: like bodily autonomy is under attack from many different sizes

784
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 3: right now. And then the other side of that too. Again,

785
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 3: I don't it's complicated when we talk about the election.

786
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 3: I don't want to take away the agency of the

787
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 3: fact that there were a lot of women that voted

788
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 3: for Trump, particularly white women.

789
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:54,800
Speaker 5: There were a lot of white women that voted for Trump.

790
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 3: But that being said, just seeing the numbers of men

791
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 3: across all demographics, having those numbers go up for men

792
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 3: that had voted for Trump, like, that's got to be scary.

793
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 3: And I think seeing these yeah again, seeing these numbers

794
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 3: grow up, seeing how many men are being radicalized by

795
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 3: this kind of rhetoric, are being radicalized by these sort

796
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:23,439
Speaker 3: of movements. There's it's no surprise that things like the

797
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 3: four B movement are you know, getting a lot of

798
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 3: traction on social media right now, and you know whether

799
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 3: or not that's going to be effective or whatnot. I

800
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 3: think the fact that it is kind of becoming more

801
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 3: prevalent is something that people are talking about, is showing

802
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 3: the fact that, yeah, it's it's hard to date if

803
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 3: you're a straight woman and your options are like sixty

804
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 3: percent dudes who have fallen down a weird right wing

805
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 3: rabbit hole. I think something else that was really concerning

806
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 3: was right before the election, there was this trend going

807
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,240
Speaker 3: around of women being like canceling out my husband's.

808
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 5: Vote, like that was that was weird, That was weird.

809
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 3: And that and I that's another conversation where I think, like,

810
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 3: what does that say about you that you're married to

811
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 3: somebody who's doing that. But on a larger scale, yeah,

812
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 3: that is very concerning to see like what the trends

813
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 3: are here.

814
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 4: But yeah, they's definitely a big conversation and who is

815
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 4: controlling a lot of like the narratives as well as

816
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 4: how to how to kind of like sift through all

817
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 4: the information that is being said, because the back and

818
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 4: forth in that conversation alone about women saying they have

819
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 4: to hide their votes and then say from their husbands,

820
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 4: and that being a whole narrative, and then it got

821
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 4: flipped into weirdly being like women were lying to their

822
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 4: friends because they did not want to be ostracized for

823
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,320
Speaker 4: voting for Trump. Like there's so many back and forth

824
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 4: in them. And when I just talk about women, like

825
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 4: the bigger pictures seem to be like the white Cis

826
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 4: women that we have talked about many times. And then

827
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,280
Speaker 4: we also see a bigger like a great big number

828
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 4: of people who would be considered allies in trying to

829
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 4: help protect these rights. And of course there's that other

830
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:21,959
Speaker 4: It's weird because it's all over the world right now.

831
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 4: Like I have been in deep thought and looking through

832
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 4: having a conversation about feminism around the world and the

833
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 4: states of it, because we're seeing governments collapse, We're seeing

834
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,320
Speaker 4: the rise of new feminist groups coming up, which is amazing,

835
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:38,760
Speaker 4: but we're also seeing bad feminist groups coming at the forefront.

836
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 6: Two.

837
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,280
Speaker 4: And you're like, oh, no, no, learn from the US

838
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 4: and old school ways.

839
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:43,439
Speaker 5: You don't want to do it this way.

840
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 4: But it's such a hard conversation because it's both cyclical

841
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 4: and new.

842
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 3: Right exactly, I think, like, again, this is where I'm

843
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 3: I'm kind of I want to.

844
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 5: Be careful here.

845
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 3: I'm not saying like, oh, it's just men that are

846
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 3: the problem, because I don't believe in gender essentialism to

847
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 3: begin with. I think, like, I don't think your gender

848
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 3: is the overall determining thing and like what kind of

849
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,919
Speaker 3: person you end up being. But like, and yeah, there

850
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 3: were a lot of women, there were a lot of

851
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 3: CIS women, there were a lot of straight women. I'm

852
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,760
Speaker 3: sure there were queer women too that voted for Trump

853
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 3: and that was their decision. And I'm not going to

854
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 3: take the agency away from them from saying like, like,

855
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 3: obviously they did that, that was their decision. But at

856
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 3: the same time, like, what are the rest of us

857
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 3: supposed to do, like we're all suffering from this. And

858
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 3: then yeah, when you look at the numbers of men

859
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,840
Speaker 3: like like that that voted for Trump, the the increases

860
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 3: are significantly more. And yeah, again, I mean sex is

861
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,240
Speaker 3: power and dating is power. One of my favorites Janelmona

862
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 3: songs is everything is sex except sex, which is power.

863
00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 3: This is a lot of ways, like how marginalized people,

864
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 3: how women like that is the way that we have

865
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 3: shown power historically. And again, like, I think that is

866
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 3: why it makes sense that we're seeing this increasing conversations

867
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 3: about stuff like four B and like more extreme movements, whether.

868
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:18,760
Speaker 5: Or not it's going to be effective.

869
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 3: I again, kind of going back to what you're saying,

870
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 3: I think we are in danger of sort of like

871
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 3: falling into very turfy gender essentialist type rabbit holes that

872
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 3: are just going to ultimately end up hurting all of us.

873
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,359
Speaker 3: But at the same time, like I understand why this

874
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,720
Speaker 3: reaction is happening. Like, if you're looking into the world

875
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 3: and this is the stories you're reading about, like all

876
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 3: of these men that are voting to take away your

877
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 3: bodily autonomy, you're seeing, you know, Nick Fuentes, get on

878
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 3: Twitter right after the election and say like your body

879
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 3: my choice, and hearing about like middle school boys shouting

880
00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 3: your body my choice at like teachers and young like

881
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 3: that is terrifying.

882
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 5: And I think we can't talk.

883
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 3: About the fact that something really weird is happening with

884
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 3: dating and dating culture without talking about the fact that

885
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 3: something weird is.

886
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 5: Just happening with.

887
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 3: Men in general and the radicalization of young men.

888
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 4: Because honestly, on the other scales to this, because we've talked,

889
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 4: we're talking about the gen z or dating you uh,

890
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 4: a queer person dating, non binding queer person dating and

891
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 4: in New York and all these things, and then the

892
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 4: bigger conversation of like, we love seeing we being the

893
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 4: old people love seeing things change and people understanding that

894
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 4: things are own spectrums now and it's not just black

895
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 4: or white or you know, arb, but then also seeing

896
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 4: like a big chunk of and this is sad for

897
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 4: y'all gen Z boys voting for Trump. Like, I honestly

898
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 4: was really shocked by that, almost as shocked as like, uh,

899
00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 4: not really, but like Latina Latino voters also not really,

900
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 4: but you know, on that level of like, huh, I

901
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 4: really thought that there was this big shift, but it's

902
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:07,879
Speaker 4: not changed that much.

903
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean honestly same, And like I think

904
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 3: part of that, like I sort of naively hoped that again,

905
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 3: this is the thing where I was like, oh see,

906
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 3: it seems like our generation is so much more understanding

907
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 3: about like gender diversity and you know, sexuality being much

908
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 3: more fluid and.

909
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 5: Whatnot. And then or not maybe not or even if

910
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 5: that's not the main like even.

911
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 3: If if there's somebody who maybe doesn't believe that and

912
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 3: you know, voted for other reasons, they're still at least

913
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 3: saying that they don't care enough about these issues to

914
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 3: make it like a priority.

915
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 5: So yeah, it's weird. It is.

916
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 3: It is weird, And I think this was sort of

917
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 3: the like, it was fun writing this episode and delving

918
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 3: into all the like, you know, the way that we're

919
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 3: meeting and how that's changing and the way that you know,

920
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 3: conversations about sex and sexuality, like the ways they are

921
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 3: becoming more open. But then at the same time, it's

922
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 3: kind of like, oh, now we can't we can't talk

923
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 3: about this without addressing the fact that, yeah, it is

924
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 3: gonna be weird to date if your dating pool includes

925
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 3: a bunch of men that don't see you as like

926
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 3: a human being.

927
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 5: So I don't know, and I.

928
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 3: Don't think we should be settling for that. That is

929
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 3: the last thing we should be doing. So to clearly things,

930
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 3: you know what, We're always gonna need a feminist movement.

931
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:49,879
Speaker 5: We're always gonna need a queer liberation movement. And this

932
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 5: is why I guess this is our job security now.

933
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 3: Huh, so much to talk about, but at what cost?

934
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 5: That's true.

935
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: I hate when people tell me that It's like, oh,

936
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: you'll have plenty to talk about, Like I kind I

937
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 1: would rather not rather not have that much.

938
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 3: So on that note, I do ultimately have hope. I

939
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 3: do ultimately feel optimistic. Again, like I talked about at

940
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 3: the top of this episode, I'm in my mid twenties.

941
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:22,720
Speaker 3: This is kind of the time when this is supposed

942
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 3: to be happening, you know. Bringing it back to Sex

943
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 3: and the City, they're all in their mid thirties, and

944
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 3: I'm I am grateful that despite like all the things

945
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 3: that I just talked about, like I do live in

946
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 3: a world where I'm not expected to settle down in

947
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,359
Speaker 3: my mid twenties, and it's not like look down upon

948
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 3: because that I don't want to do that. I am very,

949
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 3: very grateful for the fact that, like be you know,

950
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 3: there has been all this build up and feminist movements

951
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 3: and queer liberation movements and what not to change these

952
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 3: dynamics around sex and gender. So again, I don't at

953
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 3: the end of the day, I don't think it's a

954
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 3: bad time for dating. I don't think it's any worse

955
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 3: than it has been historically. I just think it's changing,

956
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,839
Speaker 3: and I think there's new things that we need to.

957
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 5: Watch out for.

958
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 3: Seems so intense, but really it is, like there's new

959
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 3: things we need to watch out for. There's new ways

960
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 3: that again we're seeing men kind of a and I

961
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 3: keep saying men, but you know, it's anybody. Sure, there's

962
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,359
Speaker 3: plenty of toxic women and non binary people out there too,

963
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:44,280
Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't know, Like the things are changing,

964
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 3: the social dynamics are changing. We are all still again,

965
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 3: I think, socially recovering from being stuck at home for

966
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 3: like two years, and I think ignoring that is like

967
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 3: a big blind spot, like, like clearly a big part

968
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 3: of the problem again, the fact that we're all still

969
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 3: relearning how to like exist in a society or whatever. Yeah,

970
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 3: I don't know again, I at the end of the

971
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 3: day just bite all this.

972
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 5: All this being said, I still feel.

973
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 3: Pretty optimistic, okay at the end of the day, like

974
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 3: things are changing.

975
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like it's weird but hopeful, weird but hopeful.

976
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly, there we go subscribes a lot.

977
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 5: In my life. Tagline will be in my autobiography.

978
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 1: I think COVID messed us up a lot worse than

979
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:40,959
Speaker 1: we're admitting it did.

980
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 5: Oh yeah yeah, and so yeah, I completely agree with you.

981
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 1: So yeah, thank you so much for sharing this with us.

982
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 1: We do have some other episodes planned with you in

983
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 1: definitely another sex in the City episode now that you've

984
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 1: definitely seen the whole thing, I know.

985
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 5: But in the meantime, where can the good listeners fight you?

986
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:11,320
Speaker 3: You can find me on Instagram, Twitter, now on Blue Sky,

987
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 3: although I haven't really used to get at Pat not

988
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 3: prat that's pattn ot pr a t t if you

989
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 3: want to follow me on TikTok for like the two

990
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 3: weeks that we have TikTok still.

991
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 5: You can find me at Hot Topic Dad.

992
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:27,760
Speaker 3: It's hot topic like the store and then just Dad

993
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 3: mostly cosplay stuff. But you know what, whatever, if you

994
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 3: want to see that. So all the app's about to

995
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 3: be gone anyways.

996
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, definitely go check Joey out and all those

997
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 1: places listens if you haven't already. I'm so glad you

998
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 1: were able to come on. I know you're a little sick, and.

999
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 5: Also so glad we get to finally meet gues Oh God.

1000
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 5: Of course.

1001
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 1: In the meantime, if you would like to contact us,

1002
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 1: you can meet emails a stuff Me, mom stuff atiheartmedia

1003
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 1: dot com.

1004
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 5: You can find us.

1005
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: On Twitter and blue sky at mom Stuff podcast and

1006
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok at stuff We Never Told You.

1007
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:03,840
Speaker 5: We are us on YouTube.

1008
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 1: We have a tea public store, and we have a

1009
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:07,319
Speaker 1: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks,

1010
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 1: it's always to a super producer, Questenior Executive Producer Maya

1011
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:13,080
Speaker 1: and Archtuntar, Joey, thank you and thanks you for listening.

1012
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 1: Stuff Will Never Told You is production by Heart Radio

1013
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:16,359
Speaker 1: for a podcast or my Heart Radia. You can check

1014
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 1: out the Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or be listening

1015
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows