1 00:00:15,516 --> 00:00:26,596 Speaker 1: Pushkin. If a psychologist ever looks at your life, at say, 2 00:00:26,676 --> 00:00:29,476 Speaker 1: your level of emotional maturity or the way you handle 3 00:00:29,556 --> 00:00:33,476 Speaker 1: daily problems, and says that you're well adjusted, you'd probably 4 00:00:33,556 --> 00:00:38,076 Speaker 1: be pretty pleased. I mean, nobody wants to be called maladjusted. 5 00:00:37,716 --> 00:00:41,356 Speaker 2: Right well. In nineteen sixty seven, one speaker at a 6 00:00:41,396 --> 00:00:45,356 Speaker 2: meeting of the American Psychological Association made the case for 7 00:00:45,516 --> 00:00:49,436 Speaker 2: being maladjusted. There are some things in our society, he said, 8 00:00:49,956 --> 00:00:52,516 Speaker 2: some things in our world to which we should never 9 00:00:52,636 --> 00:00:57,396 Speaker 2: be adjusted. In the face of bigotry, violence, extreme inequality, 10 00:00:57,436 --> 00:01:01,356 Speaker 2: and war, feeling good makes no sense. The speech made 11 00:01:01,476 --> 00:01:05,036 Speaker 2: major waves among psychologists, in part because it was not 12 00:01:05,156 --> 00:01:08,676 Speaker 2: given by a psychologist, but by Martin Luther King Junior, 13 00:01:09,316 --> 00:01:13,356 Speaker 2: the great civil rights leader, told psychologists that in many cases, 14 00:01:13,636 --> 00:01:17,356 Speaker 2: their focus on happiness was backwards. When the norms of 15 00:01:17,396 --> 00:01:21,556 Speaker 2: a culture are unjust, true social health requires what MLK 16 00:01:21,796 --> 00:01:27,076 Speaker 2: called creative maladjustment. Creative maladjustment, he argued, had two parts. 17 00:01:27,756 --> 00:01:31,356 Speaker 2: The first was a sense of fury about how things are. 18 00:01:32,116 --> 00:01:33,956 Speaker 2: We need to be upset in the face of an 19 00:01:34,036 --> 00:01:37,756 Speaker 2: unfair status quo, but we should also do so in 20 00:01:37,796 --> 00:01:40,236 Speaker 2: a creative way. We need to bring a sense of 21 00:01:40,276 --> 00:01:43,956 Speaker 2: hope that the future could be different. I'm Jamil Zaki, 22 00:01:44,236 --> 00:01:47,396 Speaker 2: and in my book Hope for Cynics, I explore doctor 23 00:01:47,476 --> 00:01:51,236 Speaker 2: King's idea of creative maladjustment and find that it is 24 00:01:51,356 --> 00:01:55,396 Speaker 2: deeply prescient. A lot of evidence from psychology bears out 25 00:01:55,396 --> 00:01:59,516 Speaker 2: what he said. Hope isn't a complacent feeling that causes 26 00:01:59,516 --> 00:02:03,156 Speaker 2: people to ignore their problems. It's a key ingredient in 27 00:02:03,196 --> 00:02:06,516 Speaker 2: our ability to yearn for a better future and to 28 00:02:06,596 --> 00:02:07,316 Speaker 2: fight for it. 29 00:02:08,036 --> 00:02:10,756 Speaker 1: In this special season on Finding Hope, Jamiale and I 30 00:02:10,796 --> 00:02:14,036 Speaker 1: have shared study after study showing that we humans are kinder, 31 00:02:14,276 --> 00:02:17,956 Speaker 1: less divided, and more cooperative than most people realize. But 32 00:02:18,116 --> 00:02:21,036 Speaker 1: being a good person doesn't necessarily mean that you have 33 00:02:21,076 --> 00:02:23,836 Speaker 1: the courage to do good things, and that is the 34 00:02:23,876 --> 00:02:26,956 Speaker 1: subject of our final show of this series. Many of 35 00:02:27,036 --> 00:02:30,396 Speaker 1: us feel pretty cynical about problems like inequality and justice 36 00:02:30,436 --> 00:02:34,196 Speaker 1: and bigotry. We feel powerless to bring about change, so 37 00:02:34,396 --> 00:02:36,436 Speaker 1: we just kind of go on with our lives. But 38 00:02:36,516 --> 00:02:39,916 Speaker 1: what if we embrace the creative maladjustment Doctor King recommended? 39 00:02:40,436 --> 00:02:42,956 Speaker 1: What if we got pissed off enough to think differently 40 00:02:43,476 --> 00:02:49,876 Speaker 1: and found the hope needed to act differently. Our minds 41 00:02:49,876 --> 00:02:51,956 Speaker 1: are constantly telling us what to do to be happy. 42 00:02:52,316 --> 00:02:54,356 Speaker 1: But what if our minds are wrong? What if our 43 00:02:54,396 --> 00:02:56,836 Speaker 1: minds are lying to us, leading us away from what 44 00:02:56,876 --> 00:02:59,556 Speaker 1: will really make us happy. The good news is that 45 00:02:59,676 --> 00:03:02,036 Speaker 1: understanding the science of the mind can point us all 46 00:03:02,076 --> 00:03:05,476 Speaker 1: back in the right direction. You're listening to the Happiness Lab. 47 00:03:05,556 --> 00:03:07,756 Speaker 1: Would meet doctor Laurie Santos. 48 00:03:07,756 --> 00:03:09,516 Speaker 2: And me doctor Jamil's. 49 00:03:18,956 --> 00:03:20,636 Speaker 3: I actually hate politics. 50 00:03:20,956 --> 00:03:24,596 Speaker 1: Katie Fahey wasn't exactly a poster job for creative maladjustment. 51 00:03:24,836 --> 00:03:27,596 Speaker 4: The fact that we live in America and that we 52 00:03:27,956 --> 00:03:30,076 Speaker 4: have a government that is supposed to be derived by 53 00:03:30,076 --> 00:03:32,316 Speaker 4: the people, I think all that's great, but the actual 54 00:03:32,436 --> 00:03:36,636 Speaker 4: like politics, us versus them, party versus party, I just 55 00:03:36,716 --> 00:03:37,356 Speaker 4: have never. 56 00:03:37,356 --> 00:03:39,676 Speaker 1: Liked Many of the people in the Michigan town where 57 00:03:39,716 --> 00:03:43,116 Speaker 1: Katie grew up didn't take part in local politics or elections. 58 00:03:43,636 --> 00:03:46,556 Speaker 1: Katie did care about the issues facing her community. 59 00:03:46,276 --> 00:03:48,436 Speaker 4: But I was also busy in twenty seven and trying 60 00:03:48,436 --> 00:03:50,556 Speaker 4: to get my masters and trying to keep my day 61 00:03:50,636 --> 00:03:52,876 Speaker 4: job and like have social relationships and like all that 62 00:03:52,956 --> 00:03:53,556 Speaker 4: kind of stuff. 63 00:03:53,716 --> 00:03:56,196 Speaker 3: But in Michigan there was a lot going on. 64 00:03:56,436 --> 00:03:58,876 Speaker 1: This was around the time of the Flint water crisis. 65 00:03:59,236 --> 00:04:02,116 Speaker 1: Local officials in Flint, Michigan, had decided to switch the 66 00:04:02,156 --> 00:04:05,356 Speaker 1: location of the city's water supply to save money. Soon after, 67 00:04:05,556 --> 00:04:08,476 Speaker 1: the residents of that low income community started complaining about 68 00:04:08,476 --> 00:04:11,356 Speaker 1: the smell and color their water. By the time anyone 69 00:04:11,396 --> 00:04:13,716 Speaker 1: tried to do anything to fix it, it was too late. 70 00:04:14,316 --> 00:04:17,196 Speaker 1: All the pipes in the community had become corroded and 71 00:04:17,236 --> 00:04:20,716 Speaker 1: the water was polluted with lead, bacteria, and other contaminants. 72 00:04:21,516 --> 00:04:24,076 Speaker 1: Katie spent her hour long daily commute listening to the 73 00:04:24,156 --> 00:04:27,356 Speaker 1: radio and hearing about this awful public health crisis. 74 00:04:27,916 --> 00:04:30,996 Speaker 4: I really felt like, doesn't anybody care? How is this 75 00:04:31,116 --> 00:04:34,836 Speaker 4: going on? And yet nobody's doing anything about it. Nobody 76 00:04:34,996 --> 00:04:37,476 Speaker 4: was talking about like how do we prevent the next 77 00:04:37,476 --> 00:04:40,196 Speaker 4: flootwater crisis? How do we make sure this never happens again? 78 00:04:40,396 --> 00:04:44,836 Speaker 4: And I just felt so disheartened that this is the 79 00:04:44,836 --> 00:04:45,636 Speaker 4: world we were in. 80 00:04:45,996 --> 00:04:49,276 Speaker 1: I was just so disheartened. Katie was starting to experience 81 00:04:49,476 --> 00:04:53,316 Speaker 1: the first step of creative maladjustment. She was getting pissed off. 82 00:04:53,876 --> 00:04:56,596 Speaker 1: But there's a second step to creative maladjustment that goes 83 00:04:56,636 --> 00:05:00,316 Speaker 1: beyond anger. We need to do the creative part. And 84 00:05:00,356 --> 00:05:03,316 Speaker 1: that was where Katie got stuck. It just didn't seem 85 00:05:03,356 --> 00:05:06,356 Speaker 1: like the political system was working for communities like hers. 86 00:05:06,676 --> 00:05:09,076 Speaker 3: Our politicians are not afraid of us as the vote. 87 00:05:09,276 --> 00:05:11,556 Speaker 4: They aren't worried about winning our vote or if we 88 00:05:11,676 --> 00:05:12,476 Speaker 4: like what they're doing. 89 00:05:12,836 --> 00:05:15,796 Speaker 1: Things seemed intractable, but Katie wanted to find a way 90 00:05:15,836 --> 00:05:16,516 Speaker 1: to fix things. 91 00:05:16,716 --> 00:05:19,076 Speaker 4: I can't keep going to work every day knowing that 92 00:05:19,196 --> 00:05:22,036 Speaker 4: children can't drink water at their school and like, think 93 00:05:22,076 --> 00:05:24,276 Speaker 4: that's okay. And I didn't know what to do. But 94 00:05:24,316 --> 00:05:27,036 Speaker 4: I was kind of seeing all those pieces and felt like, 95 00:05:27,516 --> 00:05:29,956 Speaker 4: maybe there's something to do that isn't just nothing, or 96 00:05:30,036 --> 00:05:32,836 Speaker 4: isn't just listening to the radio and getting frustrated every 97 00:05:32,876 --> 00:05:33,396 Speaker 4: single day. 98 00:05:33,756 --> 00:05:36,236 Speaker 1: So Katie decided to take a deeper dive. So why 99 00:05:36,316 --> 00:05:38,716 Speaker 1: so many of her local politicians were checked out? 100 00:05:38,916 --> 00:05:41,116 Speaker 4: I was like, Okay, how do we actually start getting 101 00:05:41,116 --> 00:05:45,356 Speaker 4: accountability in Michigan. Maybe we could try and fix one 102 00:05:45,356 --> 00:05:48,356 Speaker 4: of those systemic problems that make it so that our 103 00:05:48,436 --> 00:05:51,476 Speaker 4: legislators don't have incentives to want to listen to the voters. 104 00:05:52,316 --> 00:05:56,316 Speaker 2: America's political system is, at least in theory, supposed to 105 00:05:56,316 --> 00:06:00,036 Speaker 2: prevent problems like this. People within each district vote for 106 00:06:00,076 --> 00:06:02,956 Speaker 2: the person whose policies they like best. If a community 107 00:06:03,036 --> 00:06:05,796 Speaker 2: hates what a politician is doing, they should be able 108 00:06:05,876 --> 00:06:09,476 Speaker 2: to vote that person out. But as Katie learned, it 109 00:06:09,556 --> 00:06:14,076 Speaker 2: doesn't always work like that because of a process called jerrymandering. 110 00:06:13,676 --> 00:06:17,116 Speaker 4: Where politicians decide what voting districts are instead of voters. 111 00:06:17,636 --> 00:06:21,436 Speaker 2: Once elected, a politician can monkey around with the boundaries 112 00:06:21,476 --> 00:06:24,676 Speaker 2: of their voting district. They can even move those borders 113 00:06:24,716 --> 00:06:27,836 Speaker 2: so much that they exclude a huge percentage of votes 114 00:06:27,996 --> 00:06:31,516 Speaker 2: that would be hostile to their policies. The word jerrymandering 115 00:06:31,596 --> 00:06:35,436 Speaker 2: comes from a redistricting bill back in eighteen twelve signed 116 00:06:35,476 --> 00:06:39,716 Speaker 2: by Massachusetts Governor Elbridge Jerry. His party redrew the boundaries 117 00:06:39,716 --> 00:06:42,676 Speaker 2: of Boston voting districts in order to win more power. 118 00:06:43,236 --> 00:06:46,756 Speaker 2: The result was a set of strangely shaped districts. One 119 00:06:46,796 --> 00:06:50,476 Speaker 2: famous electoral map looked a bit like a salamander, or 120 00:06:50,596 --> 00:06:55,356 Speaker 2: rather a jerrymander. Jerrymandering is a process that's helpful for politicians, 121 00:06:55,756 --> 00:06:58,796 Speaker 2: but it's very bad for governance. It makes it harder 122 00:06:58,836 --> 00:07:03,316 Speaker 2: to vote out incumbents and encourages entire communities to be ignored. 123 00:07:04,276 --> 00:07:06,916 Speaker 4: People end up not being able to actually get government 124 00:07:06,956 --> 00:07:09,316 Speaker 4: to deliver on the basic things that it's suppose to 125 00:07:09,356 --> 00:07:10,116 Speaker 4: be delivering up. 126 00:07:10,556 --> 00:07:13,756 Speaker 2: As Katie read more about jerrymandering, she was shocked at 127 00:07:13,756 --> 00:07:17,676 Speaker 2: how much this unfair process affected her Michigan community. 128 00:07:17,876 --> 00:07:18,836 Speaker 3: I knew it was bad. 129 00:07:18,956 --> 00:07:21,716 Speaker 4: I didn't know much else besides that, But I was like, hey, 130 00:07:21,796 --> 00:07:23,556 Speaker 4: I think if we started there, Like if we could 131 00:07:23,596 --> 00:07:26,156 Speaker 4: fix that problem where politicians get to choose who their 132 00:07:26,196 --> 00:07:29,516 Speaker 4: voters are and instead had voters choosing who their politicians 133 00:07:29,556 --> 00:07:32,396 Speaker 4: are based on their voting districts, Like, maybe there's something there, 134 00:07:32,516 --> 00:07:33,596 Speaker 4: But I didn't actually know. 135 00:07:33,556 --> 00:07:34,916 Speaker 3: What we could do to fix it. 136 00:07:35,276 --> 00:07:39,076 Speaker 2: Jerrymandering was infuriating, but it had been around for hundreds 137 00:07:39,116 --> 00:07:42,476 Speaker 2: of years. It wasn't like some random recycling plant worker 138 00:07:42,596 --> 00:07:45,356 Speaker 2: was going to single handedly fix such a big problem. 139 00:07:45,476 --> 00:07:47,636 Speaker 4: So I was kind of feeling, like, why doesn't anybody care? 140 00:07:48,036 --> 00:07:49,636 Speaker 4: I was feeling pretty hopeless. 141 00:07:49,836 --> 00:07:52,836 Speaker 2: I was feeling pretty hopeless. Katie was feeling what a 142 00:07:52,836 --> 00:07:56,036 Speaker 2: lot of cynical people do. She saw a huge problem 143 00:07:56,276 --> 00:07:59,516 Speaker 2: but couldn't envision a solution, so she didn't take action. 144 00:08:00,716 --> 00:08:04,716 Speaker 2: In Martin Luther King's terms, Katie was feeling maladjusted but 145 00:08:04,796 --> 00:08:07,836 Speaker 2: didn't feel the creative hope we need to do something 146 00:08:07,836 --> 00:08:11,036 Speaker 2: about it. Which finds that Katie is not alone here. 147 00:08:11,836 --> 00:08:14,996 Speaker 2: Cynics don't vote or protest as much as their more 148 00:08:15,036 --> 00:08:19,276 Speaker 2: hopeful counterparts. They leave the work to others, and even worse, 149 00:08:19,596 --> 00:08:23,276 Speaker 2: people who feel hopeless sometimes belittle that work. They are 150 00:08:23,356 --> 00:08:26,636 Speaker 2: quick to talk about society's ills, but also claim there 151 00:08:26,676 --> 00:08:29,676 Speaker 2: is no cure and it's dumb for anyone to try. 152 00:08:29,476 --> 00:08:29,996 Speaker 5: To fix it. 153 00:08:30,556 --> 00:08:33,596 Speaker 2: We often think of cynicism as a radical feeling which 154 00:08:33,636 --> 00:08:37,636 Speaker 2: will hold power to account. In fact, it's often the opposite, 155 00:08:37,796 --> 00:08:40,756 Speaker 2: a duel of the status quo. But is there any 156 00:08:40,796 --> 00:08:43,916 Speaker 2: way to find the hope that Katie was lacking? To 157 00:08:43,956 --> 00:08:46,796 Speaker 2: get that creative nudge, we need to start taking action. 158 00:08:47,676 --> 00:08:50,596 Speaker 2: We'll find out when the Happiness Lab returns from the break. 159 00:08:58,076 --> 00:09:00,876 Speaker 5: So the exhausted majority, it's sixty seven percent of America. 160 00:09:00,956 --> 00:09:02,396 Speaker 5: That is the majority of America. 161 00:09:02,476 --> 00:09:06,196 Speaker 1: This is political strategist Emily Amic. Emily used to work 162 00:09:06,196 --> 00:09:09,076 Speaker 1: for Senator Chuck Schumer, but these days she spent her 163 00:09:09,196 --> 00:09:12,356 Speaker 1: time working with people like Katie Fahey, folks who find 164 00:09:12,396 --> 00:09:14,236 Speaker 1: politics to be a massive turnoff. 165 00:09:14,476 --> 00:09:17,356 Speaker 5: And that doesn't mean these people are centrists or moderates. 166 00:09:17,396 --> 00:09:19,796 Speaker 5: But the thing that really brings them all together, that 167 00:09:19,876 --> 00:09:23,236 Speaker 5: connects them all, is that they are like profoundly exhausted. 168 00:09:23,596 --> 00:09:27,036 Speaker 1: Political scientists often categorize people by their willingness to engage 169 00:09:27,036 --> 00:09:29,716 Speaker 1: in issues. Some folks, the ones we tend to hear 170 00:09:29,756 --> 00:09:31,796 Speaker 1: from a lot on social media and in op eds, 171 00:09:32,196 --> 00:09:35,236 Speaker 1: fall into what scholars call the wings. These are the 172 00:09:35,276 --> 00:09:39,196 Speaker 1: hardcore conservatives and progressive liberals, voters on the tail ends 173 00:09:39,236 --> 00:09:42,196 Speaker 1: of the political spectrum. But the devoted folks on the 174 00:09:42,236 --> 00:09:45,636 Speaker 1: wings are a minority. The bulk of Americans, the others 175 00:09:45,636 --> 00:09:48,956 Speaker 1: seventy year or so percent fall into the exhausted category. 176 00:09:49,396 --> 00:09:53,316 Speaker 5: They heard like profoundly exhausted, and they don't view every 177 00:09:53,356 --> 00:09:56,916 Speaker 5: single political issue as a war. They really just want 178 00:09:56,956 --> 00:09:59,116 Speaker 5: the government to work, the trains to run on time, 179 00:09:59,196 --> 00:10:00,796 Speaker 5: their kids to be able to go to school, the 180 00:10:00,836 --> 00:10:01,556 Speaker 5: water to be clean. 181 00:10:01,716 --> 00:10:01,876 Speaker 2: You know. 182 00:10:01,916 --> 00:10:03,396 Speaker 3: They just want to be able to live their lives. 183 00:10:04,076 --> 00:10:06,916 Speaker 1: The exhausteds want things to be better, but they're cynical 184 00:10:06,916 --> 00:10:10,396 Speaker 1: about their ability to fix things. They wind up disengaging 185 00:10:10,916 --> 00:10:14,436 Speaker 1: and feeling left out of the democratic process. So says 186 00:10:14,476 --> 00:10:17,236 Speaker 1: Emily's collaborator Sammy Sage, these. 187 00:10:17,076 --> 00:10:21,076 Speaker 6: People just feel like everything is corrupt, this is pointless. 188 00:10:21,196 --> 00:10:24,156 Speaker 6: They're frustrated by politics, but it has turned to apathy. 189 00:10:24,356 --> 00:10:27,156 Speaker 6: Nothing I do will matter. Nothing anyone I know does 190 00:10:27,196 --> 00:10:29,596 Speaker 6: will matter. So I wish I didn't have to hear 191 00:10:29,636 --> 00:10:30,156 Speaker 6: about this. 192 00:10:30,716 --> 00:10:33,796 Speaker 1: As you've probably guessed, this sort of helplessness doesn't make 193 00:10:33,836 --> 00:10:37,356 Speaker 1: for a happy nation, especially when nearly seventy percent of 194 00:10:37,396 --> 00:10:38,596 Speaker 1: us are feeling that way. 195 00:10:38,636 --> 00:10:41,756 Speaker 6: But the opportunity there is that if all of these 196 00:10:41,796 --> 00:10:44,596 Speaker 6: people were to start engaging, we would be able to 197 00:10:44,596 --> 00:10:46,396 Speaker 6: have a much more productive conversation. 198 00:10:46,916 --> 00:10:49,276 Speaker 1: And that's why Emily and Sammy are on a mission 199 00:10:49,516 --> 00:10:53,796 Speaker 1: to turn our collective exhaustion into more democratic engagement. They've 200 00:10:53,836 --> 00:10:57,516 Speaker 1: even written a fabulous how to guide. It's called democracy 201 00:10:57,556 --> 00:11:00,156 Speaker 1: in Retrograde, how to make changes big and small in 202 00:11:00,156 --> 00:11:01,916 Speaker 1: our country and in our lives. 203 00:11:02,156 --> 00:11:04,636 Speaker 5: The goal is for politics to be a daily habit, 204 00:11:04,756 --> 00:11:07,396 Speaker 5: not a biannual freakout. We want you to figure out 205 00:11:07,436 --> 00:11:10,876 Speaker 5: how to make civic life upfilling part of your life. 206 00:11:10,956 --> 00:11:13,076 Speaker 1: It should be additive, It should make you happy. 207 00:11:13,076 --> 00:11:15,436 Speaker 5: It should bring you joy so that you keep going 208 00:11:15,556 --> 00:11:16,356 Speaker 5: back to it. 209 00:11:16,716 --> 00:11:19,116 Speaker 1: The book begins by analyzing why so many of us 210 00:11:19,196 --> 00:11:22,836 Speaker 1: got so exhausted when it comes to politics. One factor 211 00:11:22,836 --> 00:11:25,596 Speaker 1: that pair says involves a toxic way that our political 212 00:11:25,636 --> 00:11:29,036 Speaker 1: discourse has evolved over the past few decades, whether it's 213 00:11:29,036 --> 00:11:31,836 Speaker 1: on Twitter or cable news, we've all seen what should 214 00:11:31,836 --> 00:11:35,076 Speaker 1: have been a thoughtful political discussion turn into a polarized 215 00:11:35,116 --> 00:11:39,116 Speaker 1: shouting match, and honestly, what's more exhausting than that. Emily 216 00:11:39,156 --> 00:11:41,836 Speaker 1: worries that this change has caused some voices to be 217 00:11:41,916 --> 00:11:44,876 Speaker 1: silenced while the trolls on the wings show even louder. 218 00:11:45,076 --> 00:11:47,516 Speaker 5: And then the people who then want to talk about 219 00:11:47,516 --> 00:11:48,996 Speaker 5: these issues are people who are. 220 00:11:48,916 --> 00:11:50,796 Speaker 3: Doing it not with the best intentions. 221 00:11:50,916 --> 00:11:53,796 Speaker 5: Right if the only political conversation you have is your 222 00:11:53,916 --> 00:11:57,356 Speaker 5: uncle Chad screaming at you about politics, he's going into 223 00:11:57,356 --> 00:12:00,156 Speaker 5: that conversation without good intentions. He just wants to get 224 00:12:00,196 --> 00:12:02,596 Speaker 5: in an argument. He just wants to shit on you. 225 00:12:02,836 --> 00:12:05,276 Speaker 5: That is not the normal conversation. 226 00:12:05,516 --> 00:12:08,716 Speaker 1: And extreme individuals don't just skew political to be they 227 00:12:08,756 --> 00:12:11,916 Speaker 1: also spend huge amounts of effort to impose their political 228 00:12:11,916 --> 00:12:15,156 Speaker 1: will on the rest of us. They lobby politicians, attend 229 00:12:15,156 --> 00:12:17,636 Speaker 1: city hall meetings, and complain to school boards to get 230 00:12:17,636 --> 00:12:18,956 Speaker 1: their goals realized. 231 00:12:19,276 --> 00:12:22,356 Speaker 5: Sixty percent of book bands were done by eleven people. 232 00:12:22,676 --> 00:12:23,436 Speaker 2: The reality is. 233 00:12:23,396 --> 00:12:26,996 Speaker 5: There are people who are extremely active and they are 234 00:12:27,036 --> 00:12:31,316 Speaker 5: willing to do the work to get extremist policies in play. 235 00:12:31,916 --> 00:12:35,076 Speaker 1: With so many toxic voices pushing for extreme policies, it 236 00:12:35,116 --> 00:12:37,676 Speaker 1: can be hard to figure out what the average person thinks. 237 00:12:38,236 --> 00:12:42,396 Speaker 1: It's a cognitive error that psychologists call pluralistic ignorance. We 238 00:12:42,436 --> 00:12:45,356 Speaker 1: wind up mistakenly assuming that extreme positions are the norm 239 00:12:45,716 --> 00:12:48,556 Speaker 1: and that pretty much everybody disagrees with how we think 240 00:12:48,596 --> 00:12:51,756 Speaker 1: things should work. Consider one of the most famous examples 241 00:12:51,796 --> 00:12:55,636 Speaker 1: of pluralistic ignorance, a study of Princeton students' perceptions of 242 00:12:55,676 --> 00:12:59,076 Speaker 1: their classmates. Undergrads were brought into the lab and asked 243 00:12:59,076 --> 00:13:02,116 Speaker 1: how often they thought the average Princeton student drank to excess. 244 00:13:02,996 --> 00:13:05,716 Speaker 1: Most students assume that the typical student drank a lot, 245 00:13:06,156 --> 00:13:08,956 Speaker 1: even though they themselves had a moderate approach to partying. 246 00:13:09,716 --> 00:13:11,916 Speaker 1: And it's easy to see where this bias comes from. 247 00:13:12,356 --> 00:13:14,636 Speaker 1: I mean, think about who's taking up the most space 248 00:13:14,716 --> 00:13:18,156 Speaker 1: in campus conversations. Students don't often regale each other with 249 00:13:18,236 --> 00:13:20,636 Speaker 1: stories about how they stayed up in their room watching TV, 250 00:13:21,156 --> 00:13:23,716 Speaker 1: but they talk a lot about the raging parties they attended. 251 00:13:24,116 --> 00:13:27,116 Speaker 1: And study after study has shown that our political discourse 252 00:13:27,156 --> 00:13:30,116 Speaker 1: has become a lot like those campus errors. We simply 253 00:13:30,156 --> 00:13:32,996 Speaker 1: don't realize just how much we agree on the big issues. 254 00:13:33,556 --> 00:13:37,676 Speaker 6: Majority Americans support abortion rights at any point in the pregnancy. 255 00:13:37,796 --> 00:13:40,716 Speaker 6: More than half of Americans support some form of gun 256 00:13:40,756 --> 00:13:43,796 Speaker 6: control or gun safety laws. They support taking action on 257 00:13:43,836 --> 00:13:48,676 Speaker 6: the climate. Ninety percent of Americans think that LGBTQ individuals 258 00:13:48,676 --> 00:13:51,956 Speaker 6: should not suffer from discrimination. All of those people because 259 00:13:51,956 --> 00:13:55,116 Speaker 6: they're not talking about politics, they're not finding each other. 260 00:13:55,556 --> 00:13:58,156 Speaker 1: The uncle chads make so much racket that we think 261 00:13:58,196 --> 00:14:02,516 Speaker 1: they're everywhere, while the exhausteds are so well exhausted that 262 00:14:02,556 --> 00:14:05,716 Speaker 1: they just don't speak up, which creates a vicious cycle 263 00:14:05,916 --> 00:14:08,236 Speaker 1: and which the average person winds up feeling even more 264 00:14:08,316 --> 00:14:11,156 Speaker 1: angry about the state to the world and even more cynical. 265 00:14:11,476 --> 00:14:14,596 Speaker 1: Anything can be done to fix it. But Jamille, explain 266 00:14:14,636 --> 00:14:16,356 Speaker 1: how your work gives us a path forward. 267 00:14:16,796 --> 00:14:19,236 Speaker 2: Well, Laurie, the good news here is that if you 268 00:14:19,276 --> 00:14:22,756 Speaker 2: aren't exhausted, you are probably way less alone than you think. 269 00:14:23,356 --> 00:14:26,036 Speaker 2: And research shows that when we take stock of how 270 00:14:26,036 --> 00:14:29,596 Speaker 2: many people actually share our beliefs, this can energize us. 271 00:14:29,916 --> 00:14:33,196 Speaker 2: It can help us turn cynicism into action. I think 272 00:14:33,236 --> 00:14:36,956 Speaker 2: a lot about the work of psychologist Greg Sparkman. Recently, 273 00:14:37,156 --> 00:14:40,156 Speaker 2: he surveyed thousands of Americans and found that more than 274 00:14:40,196 --> 00:14:43,716 Speaker 2: two thirds of them supported aggressive policies to slow down 275 00:14:43,796 --> 00:14:47,836 Speaker 2: climate change. But this same group assumed that barely forty 276 00:14:47,876 --> 00:14:51,356 Speaker 2: percent of their fellow citizens wanted the same thing. Classic 277 00:14:51,436 --> 00:14:55,996 Speaker 2: pluralistic ignorance. But Sparkman also found when people learned how 278 00:14:56,036 --> 00:14:59,316 Speaker 2: angry others were about climate change, they felt less alone 279 00:14:59,516 --> 00:15:02,716 Speaker 2: and were more willing to take action. A super important 280 00:15:02,716 --> 00:15:05,796 Speaker 2: part of this work is that to overcome pluralistic ignorance, 281 00:15:06,036 --> 00:15:10,476 Speaker 2: all you need is accurate information. We've seen many times 282 00:15:10,516 --> 00:15:14,676 Speaker 2: in this series on Finding Hope people often underestimate one another. 283 00:15:15,356 --> 00:15:17,796 Speaker 2: But that means that when we awaken to what the 284 00:15:17,836 --> 00:15:21,556 Speaker 2: people around us are really like, our sense of efficacy 285 00:15:21,836 --> 00:15:26,436 Speaker 2: and possibility swell. Accurate faith in each other now opens 286 00:15:26,476 --> 00:15:28,916 Speaker 2: pathways to a future more of us want. 287 00:15:29,876 --> 00:15:32,636 Speaker 1: That sounds awesome, Jamille, But how do we do that? 288 00:15:33,236 --> 00:15:36,076 Speaker 2: The first step is to start talking about the issues 289 00:15:36,116 --> 00:15:38,476 Speaker 2: we care about with one another, and we can do 290 00:15:38,516 --> 00:15:42,916 Speaker 2: that through what political scientists call relational organizing. 291 00:15:43,436 --> 00:15:46,116 Speaker 5: Relational organizing is a fancy way to say talking to 292 00:15:46,116 --> 00:15:50,076 Speaker 5: people you already know about voting and about elections. It 293 00:15:50,156 --> 00:15:53,916 Speaker 5: is eight times more effective than door knocking, because who 294 00:15:53,916 --> 00:15:54,556 Speaker 5: do you trust? 295 00:15:54,716 --> 00:15:55,356 Speaker 1: Right if you. 296 00:15:55,596 --> 00:15:57,996 Speaker 5: Want to go to a restaurant, You're gonna look at reviews, 297 00:15:58,036 --> 00:15:59,716 Speaker 5: You're gonna look at what people say, and you might 298 00:15:59,756 --> 00:16:01,476 Speaker 5: ask a friend. If a friend tells you to go 299 00:16:01,516 --> 00:16:03,436 Speaker 5: to a restaurant, you're not gonna double chuck it. You're 300 00:16:03,436 --> 00:16:05,636 Speaker 5: just gonna be like, sounds good. I trust what you 301 00:16:05,676 --> 00:16:08,036 Speaker 5: have to say. I understand that we share the same values. 302 00:16:08,076 --> 00:16:10,596 Speaker 5: We both like greasy peas za, so therefore I will 303 00:16:10,596 --> 00:16:12,796 Speaker 5: trust your opinion on what is a good pizza restaurant. 304 00:16:12,876 --> 00:16:16,036 Speaker 5: And relational organizing, it's the similar concept, and it's one 305 00:16:16,116 --> 00:16:18,396 Speaker 5: that works based on a lot of research. 306 00:16:18,956 --> 00:16:21,236 Speaker 2: In one study, people who got a text from a 307 00:16:21,236 --> 00:16:24,236 Speaker 2: friend reminding them to vote were eight percent more likely 308 00:16:24,316 --> 00:16:26,636 Speaker 2: to show up to the polls. That may not sound 309 00:16:26,676 --> 00:16:30,196 Speaker 2: like much, but it's far far more effective than nearly 310 00:16:30,316 --> 00:16:33,236 Speaker 2: any other get out the vote technique political scientists have 311 00:16:33,316 --> 00:16:35,756 Speaker 2: come up with. But the benefits of talking about the 312 00:16:35,796 --> 00:16:39,116 Speaker 2: issues we care about go beyond just boosted voting numbers. 313 00:16:39,676 --> 00:16:43,556 Speaker 2: Some political scientists have argued conversations like these and the 314 00:16:43,636 --> 00:16:48,036 Speaker 2: relationships they forge, can even save our democratic way of life. 315 00:16:48,356 --> 00:16:52,036 Speaker 6: Hannah Arent wrote that fascism and a totalitarian society is 316 00:16:52,076 --> 00:16:55,556 Speaker 6: really just a bunch of atomized individuals who are separated 317 00:16:55,636 --> 00:16:58,836 Speaker 6: and have no identity other than to submit to the state. 318 00:16:58,996 --> 00:17:01,076 Speaker 6: So in that way, and she says this is that 319 00:17:01,156 --> 00:17:04,876 Speaker 6: friendship can be an act of resistance. Having relationships with 320 00:17:04,996 --> 00:17:07,556 Speaker 6: real people who could take care of each other is 321 00:17:07,716 --> 00:17:11,556 Speaker 6: at authoritarian states worst enemy, because when people get together, 322 00:17:12,036 --> 00:17:15,476 Speaker 6: they are able to talk and you know, figure things out. 323 00:17:15,676 --> 00:17:20,996 Speaker 6: So having real, engaged, connected civic fabric is healthy for 324 00:17:21,036 --> 00:17:22,476 Speaker 6: our democracy. 325 00:17:22,156 --> 00:17:25,596 Speaker 2: And being part of an engaged, connected civic fabric is 326 00:17:25,676 --> 00:17:28,516 Speaker 2: also healthy for us personally. If you're a fan of 327 00:17:28,516 --> 00:17:32,116 Speaker 2: the Happiness Lab, you've probably already heard about the benefits 328 00:17:32,116 --> 00:17:35,756 Speaker 2: of social connection. Connecting with your neighbors about important issues 329 00:17:35,996 --> 00:17:39,596 Speaker 2: is a great way to build relationships that last Emily 330 00:17:39,636 --> 00:17:42,596 Speaker 2: says this is one of her favorite parts of civic engagement. 331 00:17:43,156 --> 00:17:47,556 Speaker 5: So I recently had cancer and a just completed treatment. 332 00:17:48,316 --> 00:17:51,316 Speaker 5: The people who showed up to help me are people 333 00:17:51,676 --> 00:17:54,436 Speaker 5: who I met through civic life, people who I met 334 00:17:54,436 --> 00:17:58,476 Speaker 5: through this work. Being engaged in civic life isn't only 335 00:17:58,516 --> 00:18:00,996 Speaker 5: giving you also received when you. 336 00:18:00,916 --> 00:18:02,756 Speaker 3: Have cancer and you need people to rely on. 337 00:18:03,236 --> 00:18:05,396 Speaker 5: And the people who you meet in civic life, who 338 00:18:05,396 --> 00:18:07,876 Speaker 5: you meet because you are volunteering and giving yourself. 339 00:18:08,236 --> 00:18:09,076 Speaker 1: It comes back to you. 340 00:18:09,596 --> 00:18:12,076 Speaker 2: But to get the benefits of civic life, we actually 341 00:18:12,076 --> 00:18:15,236 Speaker 2: have to engage. We need to take that first hopeful 342 00:18:15,236 --> 00:18:18,116 Speaker 2: step and talk to people about the issues we value. 343 00:18:18,796 --> 00:18:20,836 Speaker 2: And as Sammy and Emily have found out in their 344 00:18:20,876 --> 00:18:24,276 Speaker 2: own work, getting that first step can be a tall order. 345 00:18:24,716 --> 00:18:28,076 Speaker 6: The challenge and the opportunity with the exhausted majority is 346 00:18:28,076 --> 00:18:32,036 Speaker 6: that they are extremely repelled by the political conversation. 347 00:18:32,516 --> 00:18:34,916 Speaker 2: So how can we get the exhausted majority to start 348 00:18:34,956 --> 00:18:38,956 Speaker 2: that dialogue. Next we'll return to Katie Faihe and hear 349 00:18:38,996 --> 00:18:42,596 Speaker 2: what happens when she started a conversation about jerrymanderin and 350 00:18:42,676 --> 00:18:45,716 Speaker 2: see how that first hopeful step was more effective than 351 00:18:45,716 --> 00:18:46,596 Speaker 2: she could have dreamed. 352 00:18:47,116 --> 00:18:49,276 Speaker 4: There was no guarantee we were going to be successful. 353 00:18:49,476 --> 00:18:51,836 Speaker 4: Everybody told us all the reasons we would fail, and 354 00:18:51,956 --> 00:18:53,116 Speaker 4: yet we were willing to try. 355 00:18:53,156 --> 00:18:56,836 Speaker 2: Anyways, The Happiness Lab will return after the break. 356 00:19:03,236 --> 00:19:06,036 Speaker 4: I make plenty of Facebook posts that don't lead to anything. 357 00:19:06,596 --> 00:19:10,436 Speaker 1: When we last left Katie Fahee, thing recycling plant worker 358 00:19:10,636 --> 00:19:13,156 Speaker 1: was fed up with the jerrymandering in her Michigan community, 359 00:19:13,556 --> 00:19:15,996 Speaker 1: Confuming about politics in her car on the way to 360 00:19:15,996 --> 00:19:20,356 Speaker 1: work for overriding thought at the time something has to change. 361 00:19:20,556 --> 00:19:23,316 Speaker 4: So I went on social media. I have a normal 362 00:19:23,356 --> 00:19:25,556 Speaker 4: amount of followers for the age I am in. I'm 363 00:19:25,596 --> 00:19:27,716 Speaker 4: not an influencer or anything like that, but I just 364 00:19:27,756 --> 00:19:29,876 Speaker 4: thought i'd say, like, I'd reach out to my friends 365 00:19:29,916 --> 00:19:32,676 Speaker 4: and see if anybody else cared about jerrymandering and if 366 00:19:32,676 --> 00:19:34,876 Speaker 4: they wanted to do something about it. So my one 367 00:19:34,916 --> 00:19:37,956 Speaker 4: little step before work was like, Hey, I want to 368 00:19:38,036 --> 00:19:40,396 Speaker 4: end jerrymandering in Michigan. If you want to help, let 369 00:19:40,436 --> 00:19:43,196 Speaker 4: me know smiley face emoji. And I did not think 370 00:19:43,196 --> 00:19:45,516 Speaker 4: that would lead to really much of anything, if I'm 371 00:19:45,556 --> 00:19:46,436 Speaker 4: being honest. 372 00:19:46,476 --> 00:19:50,476 Speaker 1: But that's not what happened. Katie's post blew up, and. 373 00:19:50,476 --> 00:19:52,436 Speaker 4: All of a sudden, all these people were saying, Oh 374 00:19:52,436 --> 00:19:54,316 Speaker 4: my gosh, I'm so glad you're working on this. I've 375 00:19:54,316 --> 00:19:56,156 Speaker 4: cared about it for such a long time. Let me 376 00:19:56,196 --> 00:19:59,036 Speaker 4: know how I could help. What happened when I made 377 00:19:59,076 --> 00:20:02,036 Speaker 4: that Facebook post is I got instantly connected to a 378 00:20:02,036 --> 00:20:06,396 Speaker 4: community I never knew existed, thoughtful people who paid attention 379 00:20:07,076 --> 00:20:11,556 Speaker 4: but didn't really love hyper partisanship and didn't really know 380 00:20:11,596 --> 00:20:14,196 Speaker 4: what to do, but still cared and still wished that 381 00:20:14,276 --> 00:20:15,716 Speaker 4: something could be done. 382 00:20:15,476 --> 00:20:18,236 Speaker 1: For the first time in a long time, Katie didn't 383 00:20:18,236 --> 00:20:19,116 Speaker 1: feel alone. 384 00:20:19,356 --> 00:20:21,756 Speaker 4: I think I had this aha moment of like, look 385 00:20:21,756 --> 00:20:24,036 Speaker 4: at all these people who've also been sitting in their 386 00:20:24,076 --> 00:20:27,876 Speaker 4: car or at home being mad online, thinking like, why 387 00:20:27,916 --> 00:20:30,596 Speaker 4: doesn't somebody do something about this? Meanwhile all of us 388 00:20:30,596 --> 00:20:33,276 Speaker 4: not realizing like we are actually people who can do 389 00:20:33,356 --> 00:20:34,116 Speaker 4: something about this. 390 00:20:34,516 --> 00:20:37,876 Speaker 1: But that positive feeling was quickly followed by panic. The 391 00:20:37,916 --> 00:20:40,636 Speaker 1: people who replied to Katie's post seemed to think that 392 00:20:40,716 --> 00:20:43,156 Speaker 1: she knew what the next step was for fixing things, 393 00:20:43,436 --> 00:20:43,876 Speaker 1: and I was. 394 00:20:43,836 --> 00:20:47,036 Speaker 3: Like, oh, no, I have no idea what I'm doing. 395 00:20:47,316 --> 00:20:49,956 Speaker 1: And so were the people that came together, like, you know, 396 00:20:49,996 --> 00:20:54,036 Speaker 1: experienced political activists, So no, they were not. 397 00:20:54,116 --> 00:20:56,236 Speaker 4: That short answer is none of them knew what they 398 00:20:56,236 --> 00:20:56,956 Speaker 4: were doing either. 399 00:20:57,836 --> 00:21:00,156 Speaker 3: So I quickly literally googled. 400 00:20:59,756 --> 00:21:02,436 Speaker 4: Like how do you end jerrymandering and saw that in 401 00:21:02,476 --> 00:21:05,596 Speaker 4: Michigan we had something called the ballot initiative process, which 402 00:21:05,636 --> 00:21:08,716 Speaker 4: meant that if you could write constitutional language, which I 403 00:21:08,756 --> 00:21:10,516 Speaker 4: had no idea how to do. It's not a lawyer, 404 00:21:10,516 --> 00:21:12,436 Speaker 4: but it's like, okay, step one, and then if you 405 00:21:12,436 --> 00:21:14,476 Speaker 4: could take that constitutional language and get a bunch of 406 00:21:14,476 --> 00:21:16,956 Speaker 4: people to sign a petition saying yes, I want to 407 00:21:17,036 --> 00:21:18,996 Speaker 4: vote on this. When I looked at the number, it 408 00:21:19,036 --> 00:21:21,716 Speaker 4: was three hundred and fifteen thousand, six hundred and fifty 409 00:21:21,716 --> 00:21:24,156 Speaker 4: four registered Michigan voter signatures in. 410 00:21:24,156 --> 00:21:25,276 Speaker 3: One hundred and eighty days. 411 00:21:25,516 --> 00:21:28,876 Speaker 4: And I lived in the second largest city in Michigan, 412 00:21:28,956 --> 00:21:31,836 Speaker 4: Grand Rapids, And even the total population if I talked 413 00:21:31,836 --> 00:21:33,996 Speaker 4: to every single person who lived in my city, was 414 00:21:34,196 --> 00:21:36,636 Speaker 4: only two hundred thousand, so nowhere close to three hundred 415 00:21:36,636 --> 00:21:38,796 Speaker 4: and fifteen thousand. So I was like, oh no, okay, 416 00:21:38,916 --> 00:21:41,596 Speaker 4: also sounds impossible. All right, that's step number two. And 417 00:21:41,636 --> 00:21:43,916 Speaker 4: then step number three would be getting at least fifty 418 00:21:43,916 --> 00:21:46,436 Speaker 4: percent of the population to vote yes on that law 419 00:21:46,516 --> 00:21:49,036 Speaker 4: in the general election, which would be about two and. 420 00:21:48,956 --> 00:21:50,156 Speaker 3: A half million people. 421 00:21:50,356 --> 00:21:52,476 Speaker 4: And I certainly didn't know two and a half million people, 422 00:21:52,516 --> 00:21:53,916 Speaker 4: so that also sounded impossible. 423 00:21:53,916 --> 00:21:56,396 Speaker 3: But I was like, Okay, at least there's a pathway here. 424 00:21:56,716 --> 00:22:00,116 Speaker 1: So ryal loyally petition convinced hundreds of thousands of people 425 00:22:00,156 --> 00:22:02,676 Speaker 1: to sign it and then get two point five million 426 00:22:02,756 --> 00:22:06,596 Speaker 1: voters to back you at the ballot box. Right, most 427 00:22:06,636 --> 00:22:09,196 Speaker 1: people would have walked away then in there, but he 428 00:22:09,476 --> 00:22:12,316 Speaker 1: was already too creatively maladjusted to step away. 429 00:22:12,836 --> 00:22:13,996 Speaker 3: If we do nothing. 430 00:22:14,116 --> 00:22:16,836 Speaker 4: We for sure know we're going to get more jerrymandered maps. 431 00:22:16,916 --> 00:22:20,716 Speaker 4: But if we succeed, my gosh, millions of people, over 432 00:22:20,796 --> 00:22:23,636 Speaker 4: ten million people for the very first time, will actually 433 00:22:23,676 --> 00:22:25,516 Speaker 4: be able to vote in a fair election. 434 00:22:26,196 --> 00:22:28,876 Speaker 1: So how do you even start on such a moment 435 00:22:28,916 --> 00:22:29,436 Speaker 1: as task. 436 00:22:29,916 --> 00:22:31,276 Speaker 4: So I was like, Okay, we probably need like a 437 00:22:31,316 --> 00:22:33,996 Speaker 4: fundraising department because you know, I don't have any money 438 00:22:34,036 --> 00:22:36,756 Speaker 4: and it sounds expensive to do. And we probably need 439 00:22:36,756 --> 00:22:38,876 Speaker 4: like a legal department because we have to write constitutional 440 00:22:38,956 --> 00:22:40,196 Speaker 4: language and like, how the heck do you do that. 441 00:22:40,316 --> 00:22:43,276 Speaker 4: We probably need like an education department because like we 442 00:22:43,356 --> 00:22:45,756 Speaker 4: have to talk to apparently millions of people about what 443 00:22:45,796 --> 00:22:46,996 Speaker 4: the heck jerrymandering is. 444 00:22:47,556 --> 00:22:49,996 Speaker 1: Katie had found a group of ordinary folks who are 445 00:22:49,996 --> 00:22:52,716 Speaker 1: as fired up as she was, but how could she 446 00:22:52,796 --> 00:22:55,436 Speaker 1: turn that enthusiasm into a more directed effort. 447 00:22:55,716 --> 00:22:59,116 Speaker 4: Although most people this is the very first quote unquote 448 00:22:59,156 --> 00:23:01,636 Speaker 4: political thing they were ever trying to do besides vote, 449 00:23:01,796 --> 00:23:04,996 Speaker 4: they had a lot of life experience that translated to 450 00:23:05,316 --> 00:23:08,796 Speaker 4: things that a campaign needs to do. For example, somebody 451 00:23:08,876 --> 00:23:12,516 Speaker 4: who who had worked at the Renaissance Fair for years 452 00:23:12,636 --> 00:23:14,836 Speaker 4: in Michigan, and she's like, you know, as the executive director, 453 00:23:14,836 --> 00:23:16,156 Speaker 4: I have to like raise a lot of money for 454 00:23:16,196 --> 00:23:16,836 Speaker 4: weird stuff. 455 00:23:16,876 --> 00:23:18,196 Speaker 3: And I was like, cool. Perfect. 456 00:23:18,396 --> 00:23:20,876 Speaker 4: We had a math teacher who had a little bit 457 00:23:20,876 --> 00:23:23,756 Speaker 4: of canvassing experience, had done some door knocking before, so 458 00:23:23,796 --> 00:23:25,236 Speaker 4: she was like, Okay, I think I can break down 459 00:23:25,236 --> 00:23:27,236 Speaker 4: this really big number of like three hundred and fifteen 460 00:23:27,276 --> 00:23:30,156 Speaker 4: thousand and figure like out how many signatures per day 461 00:23:30,196 --> 00:23:31,236 Speaker 4: that is, and like what we need to do. 462 00:23:31,276 --> 00:23:32,756 Speaker 3: And I was like, okay, great, you go for it. 463 00:23:32,836 --> 00:23:35,156 Speaker 4: And you know, somebody who had been like an accountant 464 00:23:35,276 --> 00:23:38,396 Speaker 4: for nonprofits before, who hadn't done a political campaign before, 465 00:23:38,436 --> 00:23:40,556 Speaker 4: but said she was willing to get trained on how 466 00:23:40,556 --> 00:23:42,876 Speaker 4: to do that. So like slowly it started to feel like, 467 00:23:42,916 --> 00:23:45,076 Speaker 4: even though none of us really knew what we were doing, 468 00:23:45,436 --> 00:23:47,596 Speaker 4: that maybe if we could like piece together all of 469 00:23:47,596 --> 00:23:51,836 Speaker 4: our individual little skills and contributions, maybe just maybe we 470 00:23:51,876 --> 00:23:52,636 Speaker 4: could figure out. 471 00:23:52,476 --> 00:23:52,996 Speaker 1: How to do this. 472 00:23:53,836 --> 00:23:57,516 Speaker 2: The cyniciness might say, great, the CEOs, the math teachers, 473 00:23:57,556 --> 00:24:00,756 Speaker 2: the accountants, of course they can contribute, but what can 474 00:24:00,836 --> 00:24:03,716 Speaker 2: Joe the plumber do or Rebecca the single mom jazzer 475 00:24:03,756 --> 00:24:04,596 Speaker 2: size instructor. 476 00:24:04,796 --> 00:24:07,196 Speaker 3: So Rebecca was awesome. She called me and she's like, 477 00:24:07,236 --> 00:24:08,356 Speaker 3: I really want to help, but I. 478 00:24:08,396 --> 00:24:10,516 Speaker 4: Just feel like there's there's no way I can contribute. 479 00:24:10,596 --> 00:24:12,756 Speaker 4: She's like, you know, I'm dressed a mom, there's nothing else. 480 00:24:12,796 --> 00:24:14,036 Speaker 4: And I was like, first of all, being a mom 481 00:24:14,156 --> 00:24:16,756 Speaker 4: like definitely comes with a ton of skills, so we 482 00:24:16,836 --> 00:24:17,876 Speaker 4: need all of those skills. 483 00:24:17,916 --> 00:24:20,636 Speaker 3: But also like, are there any other hobbies or something 484 00:24:20,756 --> 00:24:22,476 Speaker 3: that you have? And she had mentioned that. 485 00:24:22,436 --> 00:24:25,196 Speaker 4: On the side she was a jazzer size instructor, which 486 00:24:25,276 --> 00:24:27,196 Speaker 4: I still haven't quite figured out how to tie to 487 00:24:27,276 --> 00:24:29,956 Speaker 4: Jerry Bandrick, but also that she was a wood carver. 488 00:24:30,636 --> 00:24:34,076 Speaker 2: Katie thought Rebecca could carve a big wooden sculpture showing 489 00:24:34,276 --> 00:24:38,756 Speaker 2: just how weird Michigan's jerrymandered voting districts looked. It was 490 00:24:38,796 --> 00:24:41,556 Speaker 2: a nice idea, but Rebecca wasn't sure it would work, 491 00:24:41,876 --> 00:24:42,436 Speaker 2: Like it was. 492 00:24:42,396 --> 00:24:46,196 Speaker 4: Not feasible to have a statue stand up because it 493 00:24:46,236 --> 00:24:47,756 Speaker 4: was like so out of balance and it would have 494 00:24:47,796 --> 00:24:51,036 Speaker 4: potentially like crushed children at an art fair or something 495 00:24:51,156 --> 00:24:52,556 Speaker 4: if like the wind blew the wrong way. 496 00:24:53,196 --> 00:24:57,276 Speaker 2: Rebecca's contribution wound up being much simpler and much more valuable. 497 00:24:57,596 --> 00:25:00,676 Speaker 2: She found an easy way for people to sign Katie's petitions. 498 00:25:00,956 --> 00:25:03,756 Speaker 4: They're kind of like a long document and they aren't 499 00:25:03,756 --> 00:25:08,156 Speaker 4: a standard size for a clipboard, And so Rebecca goes, 500 00:25:08,316 --> 00:25:10,716 Speaker 4: you know, what, are there any other word carvers in 501 00:25:10,756 --> 00:25:12,956 Speaker 4: our Facebook group? And actually we had like three of them. 502 00:25:13,196 --> 00:25:15,116 Speaker 4: So they all go and they meet together, and they 503 00:25:15,116 --> 00:25:17,316 Speaker 4: figured out, like if they could go to home depots 504 00:25:17,356 --> 00:25:20,756 Speaker 4: and lows and reserve a certain amount of wood, that 505 00:25:20,796 --> 00:25:23,076 Speaker 4: we could actually make our own clipboard. So instead of 506 00:25:23,156 --> 00:25:25,876 Speaker 4: seventeen dollars a piece, it could actually end up being 507 00:25:25,876 --> 00:25:28,916 Speaker 4: closer to like eleven cents a piece per clipboard. And 508 00:25:28,956 --> 00:25:31,556 Speaker 4: then because they were thinking about these clipboards so much 509 00:25:31,596 --> 00:25:33,076 Speaker 4: and like the size, and how do we make it 510 00:25:33,116 --> 00:25:35,076 Speaker 4: more advantageous, they figured out and we make it a 511 00:25:35,076 --> 00:25:37,316 Speaker 4: little bit longer. We can ask people for their contact 512 00:25:37,356 --> 00:25:39,756 Speaker 4: information to see if they want to be volunteers. If 513 00:25:39,796 --> 00:25:42,836 Speaker 4: we throw on the back a map of the district, 514 00:25:42,876 --> 00:25:45,076 Speaker 4: it can actually work as an education tool where we 515 00:25:45,116 --> 00:25:47,876 Speaker 4: can show somebody a picture of their district and start 516 00:25:47,876 --> 00:25:50,036 Speaker 4: the conversation by saying, do you think this makes sense? 517 00:25:50,276 --> 00:25:52,556 Speaker 3: Is this how you would define our community? Which ended 518 00:25:52,636 --> 00:25:54,236 Speaker 3: up being a great tool for all of those who 519 00:25:54,316 --> 00:25:55,236 Speaker 3: are a little more. 520 00:25:55,076 --> 00:25:57,516 Speaker 4: Introverted and scared of talking to strangers that we could 521 00:25:57,596 --> 00:25:59,756 Speaker 4: have them look at our clipboard instead of us. And 522 00:25:59,876 --> 00:26:02,236 Speaker 4: also we made like raincoats for these clipboards for when 523 00:26:02,276 --> 00:26:02,876 Speaker 4: you're standing. 524 00:26:02,676 --> 00:26:02,956 Speaker 2: On the rain. 525 00:26:03,036 --> 00:26:05,716 Speaker 4: All these kind of innovations we would have never done that. 526 00:26:05,716 --> 00:26:08,556 Speaker 4: We would have never paid attention to this, But because 527 00:26:08,556 --> 00:26:11,676 Speaker 4: we had and those other wood carvers on our team, 528 00:26:11,876 --> 00:26:14,396 Speaker 4: we ended up creating like this really fabulous tool that 529 00:26:14,436 --> 00:26:17,436 Speaker 4: I know even I today like cherished my clipboard with 530 00:26:17,596 --> 00:26:19,716 Speaker 4: all the accomplishments that has seen us through. 531 00:26:20,276 --> 00:26:23,596 Speaker 2: Rather than just her community of Grand Rapids, Katie wanted 532 00:26:23,596 --> 00:26:26,516 Speaker 2: the whole state to have a voice. With eighty three 533 00:26:26,516 --> 00:26:29,356 Speaker 2: counties in Michigan, she had to trust the judgment of 534 00:26:29,356 --> 00:26:33,516 Speaker 2: her fellow campaigners. One suggested collecting signatures at his town's 535 00:26:33,556 --> 00:26:37,596 Speaker 2: annual cheeseburger festival. Another thought the local tractor pull would 536 00:26:37,596 --> 00:26:38,156 Speaker 2: be ideal. 537 00:26:38,396 --> 00:26:40,116 Speaker 4: I was like, I don't know what a tractor poll 538 00:26:40,236 --> 00:26:42,516 Speaker 4: contest is, but if you think we should go there, 539 00:26:42,556 --> 00:26:45,996 Speaker 4: we absolutely should go there. And they took their clipboard 540 00:26:46,156 --> 00:26:48,716 Speaker 4: and they would go and stand outside and try to 541 00:26:48,716 --> 00:26:50,716 Speaker 4: talk to a bunch of strangers about redistricting. 542 00:26:50,916 --> 00:26:52,396 Speaker 3: We did end up making costumes. 543 00:26:52,436 --> 00:26:55,156 Speaker 4: We ended up carving pumpkins, and in the winter we 544 00:26:55,356 --> 00:26:58,836 Speaker 4: made snowmen who are also holding the clipboards and basically 545 00:26:58,836 --> 00:27:01,276 Speaker 4: found every way we possibly could to be creative to 546 00:27:01,276 --> 00:27:03,316 Speaker 4: stop people and just say, are you sick of politics 547 00:27:03,356 --> 00:27:05,516 Speaker 4: as usual? And if so, here's a way that we 548 00:27:05,556 --> 00:27:07,956 Speaker 4: can do something about it. And we had hundreds of 549 00:27:07,996 --> 00:27:11,036 Speaker 4: thousands of converse stations. We ended up gathering over four 550 00:27:11,076 --> 00:27:12,876 Speaker 4: hundred and forty thousand signatures. 551 00:27:13,036 --> 00:27:16,196 Speaker 1: Four hundred and forty thousand signatures is an amazing feat, 552 00:27:16,796 --> 00:27:19,956 Speaker 1: but it was only the first of Katie's hurdles. For 553 00:27:20,036 --> 00:27:23,756 Speaker 1: her Independent Citizens Redistricting Commission to become a reality, she 554 00:27:23,836 --> 00:27:25,876 Speaker 1: needed half of Michigan's voters to back it. 555 00:27:26,076 --> 00:27:28,396 Speaker 4: So then we had to get into campaign mode and 556 00:27:28,476 --> 00:27:29,636 Speaker 4: door knocking to keep. 557 00:27:29,516 --> 00:27:30,876 Speaker 3: Talking to a bunch of strangers. 558 00:27:31,036 --> 00:27:33,916 Speaker 4: And we ended up door knocking hundreds of thousands of 559 00:27:33,956 --> 00:27:36,476 Speaker 4: doors to building those relationships in those communities. 560 00:27:36,516 --> 00:27:38,476 Speaker 3: So we just kept talking to our neighbors about here's 561 00:27:38,476 --> 00:27:39,236 Speaker 3: why we should care. 562 00:27:39,716 --> 00:27:42,276 Speaker 1: But in the end, did her neighbors care? Would she 563 00:27:42,316 --> 00:27:44,636 Speaker 1: be able to get out the vote to fight redistricting? 564 00:27:45,116 --> 00:27:47,716 Speaker 1: Could a woman with no legal experience who was barely 565 00:27:47,756 --> 00:27:50,156 Speaker 1: old enough to rent a car actually fight a two 566 00:27:50,276 --> 00:27:53,356 Speaker 1: hundred year old policy like gerrymandering and win? 567 00:27:54,556 --> 00:27:55,996 Speaker 2: I kind of have a feeling it's going to have 568 00:27:56,036 --> 00:27:56,716 Speaker 2: a happy ending. 569 00:27:57,556 --> 00:27:59,556 Speaker 3: We ended up getting sixty one percent of the vote. 570 00:27:59,596 --> 00:28:02,916 Speaker 4: We only needed fifty and it was really exciting to see, 571 00:28:02,996 --> 00:28:05,916 Speaker 4: especially for a concept that most people hadn't even really 572 00:28:05,916 --> 00:28:08,156 Speaker 4: thought about before. We reached over two and a half 573 00:28:08,236 --> 00:28:11,396 Speaker 4: million people who said, yes, let's try something different here 574 00:28:11,396 --> 00:28:12,676 Speaker 4: in Michigan, and. 575 00:28:12,676 --> 00:28:15,396 Speaker 1: Katie's efforts have now spread far beyond her own state. 576 00:28:15,956 --> 00:28:18,036 Speaker 1: People have seen what she did in Michigan and are 577 00:28:18,036 --> 00:28:21,556 Speaker 1: copying her approach, not just to fix jerrymandering, but for 578 00:28:21,636 --> 00:28:22,476 Speaker 1: other issues too. 579 00:28:22,956 --> 00:28:25,996 Speaker 4: In Idaho, there was some boddies who are talking about 580 00:28:25,996 --> 00:28:29,276 Speaker 4: how healthcare had like really poor access, and they decided 581 00:28:29,276 --> 00:28:31,676 Speaker 4: to get an RV and go travel across their state 582 00:28:31,716 --> 00:28:33,756 Speaker 4: and talk to their neighbors about how do we expand 583 00:28:33,796 --> 00:28:36,516 Speaker 4: Medicare because we need it and our neighbors do not 584 00:28:36,596 --> 00:28:41,276 Speaker 4: have access to healthcare. There were these brandmas in North Dakota, 585 00:28:41,756 --> 00:28:43,756 Speaker 4: one a Democrat, whan a Republican who are having this 586 00:28:43,796 --> 00:28:46,396 Speaker 4: conversation about they've been kind of civil servants bust of 587 00:28:46,436 --> 00:28:48,116 Speaker 4: their life, and they just said, there is like an 588 00:28:48,196 --> 00:28:51,956 Speaker 4: ethics problem, like our legislators are not self regulating. We 589 00:28:52,076 --> 00:28:54,556 Speaker 4: need some kind of ethics Commission, and they ended up 590 00:28:54,596 --> 00:28:56,836 Speaker 4: deciding to do a ballid initiative like we did to 591 00:28:56,916 --> 00:28:59,756 Speaker 4: create an ethics commission in North Dakota. They call themselves 592 00:28:59,756 --> 00:29:02,716 Speaker 4: the badass Grandmas now fighting for their grandchildren's future. 593 00:29:03,556 --> 00:29:07,156 Speaker 1: Katie hadn't successfully changed medical care or fought ethics reforms, 594 00:29:07,476 --> 00:29:09,036 Speaker 1: but what she did do for the people who are 595 00:29:09,036 --> 00:29:13,116 Speaker 1: her story was something even more important. She convinced them 596 00:29:13,196 --> 00:29:14,796 Speaker 1: that hope was possible. 597 00:29:15,356 --> 00:29:18,036 Speaker 4: And at those town hall meetings we were holding, when 598 00:29:18,036 --> 00:29:20,636 Speaker 4: we were talking to people, all these people, they would 599 00:29:20,636 --> 00:29:22,836 Speaker 4: all raise their hand at the end and keep bringing 600 00:29:22,876 --> 00:29:24,436 Speaker 4: up this question, isn't it impossible? 601 00:29:24,476 --> 00:29:27,556 Speaker 3: Isn't it impossible? I've tried something before it didn't work out. 602 00:29:27,476 --> 00:29:30,516 Speaker 4: And what I realized was that a lot of people 603 00:29:30,596 --> 00:29:32,916 Speaker 4: just needed somebody else to be a little bit more 604 00:29:32,956 --> 00:29:33,716 Speaker 4: hopeful than them. 605 00:29:34,076 --> 00:29:34,996 Speaker 3: Like what I was. 606 00:29:34,956 --> 00:29:37,116 Speaker 4: Doing, the best way I was contributing was being like 607 00:29:37,276 --> 00:29:38,876 Speaker 4: unafraid of the consequences. 608 00:29:39,276 --> 00:29:41,156 Speaker 1: And so as you think back to kind of how 609 00:29:41,156 --> 00:29:44,276 Speaker 1: hopeless you're feeling before, and maybe how kind of annoyed 610 00:29:44,316 --> 00:29:46,876 Speaker 1: with your fellow man you were feeling before, how different 611 00:29:46,876 --> 00:29:48,396 Speaker 1: does it feel now that you've taken action? 612 00:29:48,796 --> 00:29:51,516 Speaker 3: It feels so inspiring. 613 00:29:51,916 --> 00:29:56,316 Speaker 4: I think it's so easy to let current events feel overwhelming. 614 00:29:56,676 --> 00:29:58,636 Speaker 4: That's totally the place I was in was like, oh 615 00:29:58,716 --> 00:30:00,556 Speaker 4: my gosh, why does anybody do anything about this? And 616 00:30:00,556 --> 00:30:03,156 Speaker 4: also like doesn't anybody care that it is this bad? 617 00:30:03,796 --> 00:30:07,876 Speaker 4: And now when I start feeling that way about other issues, 618 00:30:07,956 --> 00:30:11,356 Speaker 4: I start thinking about how I can literally picture a 619 00:30:11,436 --> 00:30:14,316 Speaker 4: person and like every part of the state I live in, 620 00:30:14,716 --> 00:30:18,156 Speaker 4: who we were strangers, yet we were willing to volunteer 621 00:30:18,156 --> 00:30:22,396 Speaker 4: our time, energy, money, creativity, Like we were willing to 622 00:30:22,436 --> 00:30:24,836 Speaker 4: trust each other and fight like heck, even though all 623 00:30:24,876 --> 00:30:27,196 Speaker 4: the odds are stacked against us to try and make 624 00:30:27,236 --> 00:30:29,756 Speaker 4: a better future. And it's just like this constant reminder 625 00:30:29,796 --> 00:30:32,116 Speaker 4: that like when we actually have the option and when 626 00:30:32,116 --> 00:30:35,196 Speaker 4: there's a pathway, even if it's a really slim pathway 627 00:30:35,196 --> 00:30:37,156 Speaker 4: that might be really hard, but when there's a pathway 628 00:30:37,476 --> 00:30:41,436 Speaker 4: to change being actually possible, I think Americans in general 629 00:30:41,556 --> 00:30:43,876 Speaker 4: are just like willing to try and. 630 00:30:43,836 --> 00:30:45,356 Speaker 3: Put in the hard work to do it. 631 00:30:45,396 --> 00:30:47,916 Speaker 4: And it just makes me feel a lot more hopeful 632 00:30:47,956 --> 00:30:48,876 Speaker 4: but also grateful. 633 00:30:50,396 --> 00:30:52,716 Speaker 1: This is our final show and this special series on 634 00:30:52,876 --> 00:30:55,996 Speaker 1: finding hope, and Jamie and I both hope. No pun 635 00:30:56,076 --> 00:30:58,396 Speaker 1: intended that the stories we've shared today have helped you 636 00:30:58,436 --> 00:31:01,836 Speaker 1: become a little less cynical and a bit more creatively maladjusted. 637 00:31:02,116 --> 00:31:04,956 Speaker 2: There are plenty of reasons to be hopeful, ones we 638 00:31:04,956 --> 00:31:08,876 Speaker 2: don't get to see every day on TV or social media. 639 00:31:08,516 --> 00:31:11,796 Speaker 2: The majority of us agree on much more than we think, 640 00:31:11,836 --> 00:31:14,756 Speaker 2: and people like Emily, Sammy and Katie show us that 641 00:31:14,796 --> 00:31:17,836 Speaker 2: we can unite across our differences to help our communities. 642 00:31:17,956 --> 00:31:21,476 Speaker 2: Whether you're the CEO of a renaissance fair, a math teacher, 643 00:31:21,836 --> 00:31:25,196 Speaker 2: or a wood carving jazzer size instructor, there's going to 644 00:31:25,196 --> 00:31:28,116 Speaker 2: be a cause that fires you up and a contribution 645 00:31:28,436 --> 00:31:29,156 Speaker 2: that you can make. 646 00:31:29,876 --> 00:31:32,276 Speaker 1: So give yourself a much needed dose of self help 647 00:31:32,396 --> 00:31:35,636 Speaker 1: via political action the science shows it might just make 648 00:31:35,676 --> 00:31:38,756 Speaker 1: you feel happier. And speaking of feeling happier, Jamille, can 649 00:31:38,796 --> 00:31:40,356 Speaker 1: I just say how much I've loved having you on 650 00:31:40,436 --> 00:31:42,356 Speaker 1: the show. It has been a blast to have an 651 00:31:42,396 --> 00:31:45,076 Speaker 1: actual co host and I'm finally feeling a little bit 652 00:31:45,076 --> 00:31:45,636 Speaker 1: more hopeful. 653 00:31:45,916 --> 00:31:48,316 Speaker 2: Oh man, this has been delightful, and it's just been 654 00:31:48,356 --> 00:31:51,356 Speaker 2: great to be able to connect the science of Hope 655 00:31:51,596 --> 00:31:54,876 Speaker 2: to happiness and well being. And as a longtime fan 656 00:31:54,956 --> 00:31:57,236 Speaker 2: of the show, it has just been an absolute thrill 657 00:31:57,316 --> 00:31:59,196 Speaker 2: to be able to join you in this effort. 658 00:31:59,396 --> 00:32:01,596 Speaker 1: Well, it's sad that it is over, but I will 659 00:32:01,596 --> 00:32:04,036 Speaker 1: say for the last time thanks out there for everyone 660 00:32:04,116 --> 00:32:07,276 Speaker 1: listening to the Happiness Lab with me doctor Laurie Santos 661 00:32:07,396 --> 00:32:08,996 Speaker 1: and me doctor Jamil Zaki.