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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noah.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 3: are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff

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Speaker 3: they don't want you to know. And gentlemen, the numbers

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Speaker 3: came in. A lot of people are listening to the

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Speaker 3: show on an app.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, makes sense. Sure, that's how Apple Podcasts was

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Speaker 2: born once as an.

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Speaker 3: iTunes Yes, yes, And I wanted to maybe pop the

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Speaker 3: top on this one by by asking you, guys, what

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Speaker 3: is your favorite or least favorite app? Not to be

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Speaker 3: confused with appetizers. We're talking about the handy little programs

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Speaker 3: that do all sorts of stuff. Is a game? An app?

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Speaker 3: A game can be an app blatro Okay, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: your nuts for the Blastro. It's very good. It's a

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Speaker 3: very good game. Highly recommend. Now there's some really good

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Speaker 3: useful ones. You know.

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Speaker 4: I found someone turned me onto a free sampleer app

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Speaker 4: called sample Koala the other day, and it's just like

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Speaker 4: you can record straight off your phone, put it on

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Speaker 4: these little pads and then like sequence it and make

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Speaker 4: all kinds of fun little beeps and boops right on

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Speaker 4: your phones. I mean, apps are amazing, like they've come

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Speaker 4: such a long way. And I mean I even remember

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Speaker 4: in the earlier days there were some fantastic ones out there.

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Speaker 4: So I'm I'm an app head, no question.

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Speaker 2: What about you, mett L and L Hawaiian Barbecue, I don't.

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Speaker 2: I just I'm looking at my phone and I'm just

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Speaker 2: gonna name so your.

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Speaker 3: Phone restaurant that has its own app? Or is it

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Speaker 3: more like a concept?

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Speaker 2: It's a it's a state of mind. Yeah no, but

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Speaker 2: for real lately, one of my favorite apps on my

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Speaker 2: phone is the Virgin Voyages app.

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Speaker 3: It's so exciting.

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Speaker 2: So you got.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm supposed to know, we're all supposed to have

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Speaker 3: the app.

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Speaker 5: You gotta check in, bro, you got to get the app.

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Speaker 3: You gotta check in. I'll get the app. I'll get

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Speaker 3: the app. Yeah, what is that? What are you referencing there?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 3: Are you doing a bit? Are you doing a bit?

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Speaker 2: Here?

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Speaker 3: We're doing an organic mention.

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Speaker 2: It's a really fun app where you can see all

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Speaker 2: the stuff you're gonna do on your true crime voyage

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Speaker 2: from October tenth of the fifteenth.

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Speaker 3: Hey wait, we're going on that. Yeah, that's correct. We're

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Speaker 3: going on an adventure on the high seas joined with

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Speaker 3: the legendary Tennessee pal Dylan Fakean as well as our

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Speaker 3: pure podcast Betrayal and Buried Bones. It's an event not

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Speaker 3: to be missed. We're going to see a shipwreck too,

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Speaker 3: but it won't be our ship important no.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, now, guys, I just wanted to put that

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Speaker 2: out there as a fun little thing, right, but also

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Speaker 2: just to remind everyone that sometimes we put our locations

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Speaker 2: and the times we're going to be in those locations

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Speaker 2: on blast. We say it out loud, we put it

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Speaker 2: in a schedule, it goes on a website, we do that.

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Speaker 2: All kinds of other public figures do that. Just as

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Speaker 2: a reminder before we get into this.

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Speaker 4: You can track our private jet if you want, like,

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Speaker 4: it's out there, is available.

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Speaker 3: We're square times a million. That's the reality now.

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Speaker 2: But the whole point is there there is a ton

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Speaker 2: of public information about where certain people will be at

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Speaker 2: what time that's out there, But then there are other

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Speaker 2: times when you do not want those locations and times

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Speaker 2: to be public.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you for saying that, Matt, because you know

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Speaker 3: how I am about this stuff. It was really uncomfortable

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Speaker 3: for me to tell people where we were going to

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Speaker 3: be in advance. It's multiple days antithetical. Well, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's a rage.

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Speaker 4: We'll be within these three points of this thing called

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Speaker 4: the Bermuda Triangle at any given time between the what.

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Speaker 3: Is it, the tenth and the fifteenth. Yeah, it's a

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Speaker 3: real trustful We hope it's worth it. Apps are amazing

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Speaker 3: because they really can help you, you know, in a way.

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Speaker 3: There are renaissance of learning new things. You can learn

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Speaker 3: a new language, you can identify birds, mushrooms, stars. I

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Speaker 3: know we're all big fans of the app Dark Skies,

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Speaker 3: which is cool. We also figure out why your plants

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Speaker 3: are dying, you know, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. We also

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Speaker 3: know that most of these apps are going to be

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Speaker 3: free or relatively inexpensive or as we'll find something called freemium.

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Speaker 3: A lot of them also have, to your point, Matt,

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Speaker 3: and added somewhat hidden feature, which is they collect as

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Speaker 3: much of your information as possible, including other activities outside

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Speaker 3: of the app on the same phone. So if you

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Speaker 3: were not careful, you can end up revealing much much

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Speaker 3: more than you intended. Have you guys seen this new

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Speaker 3: show The Paper The Office spinoff? It's good. It's about

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Speaker 3: a small.

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Speaker 4: Newspaper like website based kind of newspaper, and one of

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Speaker 4: the characters who is responsible for kind of maintaining the

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Speaker 4: data collection aspects of it, which she argues kind of,

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Speaker 4: you know, in a very dead pan way, is really

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Speaker 4: more where the money comes from than anything else, and says,

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Speaker 4: you know, so technically we're learning more about our readers

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Speaker 4: than they're learning from us.

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Speaker 3: That's a note so insightful that I would consider it

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Speaker 3: now a parable. I can't wait to check out that show.

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Speaker 3: We know that no matter how innocuous an app may seem,

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Speaker 3: these little programs can do some sneaky things intentionally or

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Speaker 3: sometimes the worst unintentionally. This is the story of a

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Speaker 3: little app that a lot of our fellow conspiracy realist

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Speaker 3: are aware of, Strava. This is the tale of the

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Speaker 3: Strava leaks. And what better way to go to some

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Speaker 3: sponsors by saying always remember terms and conditions apply. Here

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Speaker 3: are the facts, but first Yes.

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Speaker 2: On October twenty eighth, twenty twenty, guys, we put out

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Speaker 2: our episode when We Become our Phones. This episode was

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Speaker 2: all about the ways in which your phone is tracking

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Speaker 2: your information and one of the primary things we talked

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Speaker 2: about there was real time location data right yep. And

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Speaker 2: then exactly four years, exactly to the day, four years

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Speaker 2: after that episode came out, the French website and publication

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Speaker 2: Lamond put out the thing we're going to be talking

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Speaker 2: about today. I just thought that was so strange, guys.

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Speaker 4: Well, and if I'm not mistaken, like it hasn't always

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Speaker 4: been the case that when you open a new app,

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Speaker 4: it asks you allowed to track.

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Speaker 3: Always only while using that only once.

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Speaker 4: That's a relatively more recent development that is a direct

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Speaker 4: result of the kinds of things that you're talking.

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Speaker 3: And it also depends upon your country of origin as

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Speaker 3: to what kind of privacy laws apply. And jent just once,

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Speaker 3: I would love for us to correctly predict something good

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Speaker 3: and fun. Why are we right about all the bad?

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Speaker 3: Thank you for beeping me, Dylan, you know with the pandemic.

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Speaker 3: I love the chronological cycle that you noted there, Matt,

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Speaker 3: and I'm saying the word cycle on purpose because I

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Speaker 3: got to talk about Strava and this is an episode

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Speaker 3: based off of some news that you brought to a

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Speaker 3: strange news program. Maybe we get into it by just

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Speaker 3: explaining what Strava is. Have you guys subscribed? Do you

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Speaker 3: use it? I haven't. I mean I have been.

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Speaker 4: Maybe I've mentioned really into biking a lot lately, but

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Speaker 4: I have not gone down that particular rabbit hole. I

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Speaker 4: kind of just, you know, use my Apple Watch to

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Speaker 4: see how many calories I burned and what my elevation was.

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Speaker 4: But it seems like Strava gets a lot more granular

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Speaker 4: than that and uses geolocating to do so.

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Speaker 2: Oh but this is really good. You use your phone

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Speaker 2: and your Apple Watch to track your location in real

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Speaker 2: time and your health fitness stuff. Right, that's what That's

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Speaker 2: one of the big cool things that a phone can do, right,

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Speaker 2: because your Apple Watch can actually track stuff about your body.

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Speaker 3: Right. I am gonna diplomatically push back on the word

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Speaker 3: cool in that. Well, it depends on your perspective.

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Speaker 2: Well theoretically, right, all is how it works.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So yeah, I'm into that aspect of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's something that works for me, and I'm very

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Speaker 4: aware of what the potential fallout could be down the road.

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Speaker 4: But it is one of those bargains with the devil

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Speaker 4: that you make where it's like, for the privilege of

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Speaker 4: having this information, I maybe am aware that it might

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Speaker 4: be exploited one day.

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Speaker 2: Well, but let's let's just talk about it that way,

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Speaker 2: because it is helpful for you, Noel, and and I

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Speaker 2: know a lot of people who use that kind of

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Speaker 2: thing where it's it's usually directly connected either to your

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Speaker 2: wrist or to something you wear in your chest.

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Speaker 3: There's a version of it.

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Speaker 2: And HM. So you're the these apps like Strava and

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Speaker 2: whatever it is you're using, and the kind of the

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Speaker 2: the stuff that's already inside the phones when when it

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Speaker 2: comes to you, it's incredibly cool that we can that

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Speaker 2: we can track ourselves in our body and how it's

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Speaker 2: functioning for things like fitness right and and working out.

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Speaker 2: Strava is one of those apps. Correct, Isn't that primarily

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Speaker 2: what it is?

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Speaker 3: Yes, it is.

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Speaker 4: And it's also like people who are really into cycling

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Speaker 4: and who are maybe even working towards competing in some

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Speaker 4: larger event. Those stats are very important a because you

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Speaker 4: can't like fake them, and it's it's very important that

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Speaker 4: you have metrics to show that you've done the work

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Speaker 4: to get to the thing and to like show to.

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Speaker 3: Show your work.

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Speaker 4: Basically, you know, while I'm certain there are ways to

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Speaker 4: game it, there is a certain sense within the communities

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Speaker 4: that rely on these things that you know, there is

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Speaker 4: a certain amount of like what's the word benefit of

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Speaker 4: the doubt?

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Speaker 3: I guess that goes along with using them correctly. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you guys are righting to jump in here. Just for

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Speaker 3: the basic definition. Strava is a social media platform meets

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Speaker 3: wellness app. It was founded in two thousand and nine

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Speaker 3: to track to earlier points and to a degree, to

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Speaker 3: gamify physical exercise. It comes to us from some Harvard alums,

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Speaker 3: some really smart guys named Michael Harvith, not Harvard associated,

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Speaker 3: but that's cool, nominative determinism, and a guy named Mark Gainey,

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Speaker 3: two very very bright guys. Strava takes its name from

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Speaker 3: the Swedish word strava with an umlaut over the first a,

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Speaker 3: which means to strive. So they kind of pulled a

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Speaker 3: Hogandau's situation because they're an American company, but they wanted,

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Speaker 3: you know, they wanted that European Ikea esque feel, and

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Speaker 3: like we were saying earlier, it first gains traction with

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Speaker 3: cyclist and it's a free app, right, and I love

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Speaker 3: that point you raised about competitive cycling. Now you can

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Speaker 3: see how the other folks are doing. Then it expands

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Speaker 3: to runners. Now we can not just PLoP our ones

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Speaker 3: and twos for a couple of miles and see our

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Speaker 3: speed and elevation and stuff. We can also recommend roots

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Speaker 3: or as they would call them, segments to one another,

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Speaker 3: and we can now track other forms of exercise via Strava,

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Speaker 3: including indoor stuff. People love this. They're leaderboards. Strava has

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Speaker 3: a version of likes, they're called kudos, and folks also

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Speaker 3: rightly with validity, love being able to track their progress and.

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Speaker 4: Just to say, another thing that Strava has is the

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Speaker 4: ability to flag users who potentially are being dishonest about

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Speaker 4: their runs.

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Speaker 3: In you can flag people. You can't see who flagged you.

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Speaker 4: There can be a complaint lies within the community, and

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Speaker 4: there are apparently some tells as to whether or not

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Speaker 4: someone is being dishonest about their run. You can kind

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Speaker 4: of measure I believe the burned calories or the elevation

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Speaker 4: whatever it might be with the distance and with like

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Speaker 4: the amount of time moving, and you can sort of

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Speaker 4: see if someone's duking the stats a.

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Speaker 3: Little bit because there's so much information out there that

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Speaker 3: can be leveraged and connected and Charlie Dade, you know,

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Speaker 3: and I think we're that when we're going to see

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Speaker 3: the idea about gitting up the numbers or goosing them,

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Speaker 3: as we've been saying recently, that goes to a special

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Speaker 3: case in Singapore. So what Drava is doing isn't entirely

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Speaker 3: you know, unique.

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Speaker 4: There are tons of other apps like my fitness Pal

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Speaker 4: and different, maybe slightly less track track focused or distance

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Speaker 4: focused apps, but there are other ones that are very,

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Speaker 4: very similar to what Strava does. However, it is the

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Speaker 4: one of the most popular ones, especially in like we

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Speaker 4: were talking about the world that's cycling. By twenty twenty,

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Speaker 4: just over ten years into the launch, Drava ad fifty

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Speaker 4: million individual users with around three billion activities uploaded to

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Speaker 4: the app. It's also available in thirteen different languages.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, amazing internet success story for sure.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about the mapping specifically, because I think

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Speaker 2: really that's what sets apart Strava for a lot of

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Speaker 2: other hundred apps. This concept of whenever you go out

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Speaker 2: for a workout, whether there's biking, running, whatever, you can

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Speaker 2: you have the option to track exactly where you go

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Speaker 2: in real time and then build out a whole essentially

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Speaker 2: a track of where you went starting point and an endpoint.

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Speaker 2: It's not always in the same place, but sometimes it

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Speaker 2: is that whole thing, that that feeling that users get

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Speaker 2: of sharing. Hey look at all the work I just

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Speaker 2: put in. Check it out and it just happened. I

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Speaker 2: just finished it. Or hey, look at the run I'm

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Speaker 2: going on right now, right that there's something there's something

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Speaker 2: so important in there that goes back to that when

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Speaker 2: we become our phones episode about wanting to share that

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Speaker 2: thing so that others recognize whatever it is that you're doing,

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Speaker 2: and then you get direct and immediate feedback, like real

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Speaker 2: time feedback sometimes about how awesome you are.

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Speaker 3: It's really no absolutely the way you put it, I agree,

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Speaker 3: it's it's the kind of the case of Strava is

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Speaker 3: the kind of thing later Harvard grads are going to

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Speaker 3: study in business school. This is how you do it right,

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Speaker 3: They wrote the textbook. In this regard, we want to

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Speaker 3: be clear or at least. I think it's important for

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Speaker 3: us to say these apps can be extremely helpful to

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Speaker 3: so many people because working out is not a one

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Speaker 3: and done event. It takes time, dedication, routine, it takes discipline.

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Speaker 3: If you have a sedentary job, you might well find

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Speaker 3: apps like this crucial to your routine because you can

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Speaker 3: see and feel and to that earlier point you raised, Matt,

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Speaker 3: share the result of your labor. It's a motivating factor.

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Speaker 3: It is gamified. Last time I biked three miles, let's

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Speaker 3: see if I can get four in around the same

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Speaker 3: amount of time.

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Speaker 4: Well, and I guess, just to Matt, you kind of

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Speaker 4: already made this clear. But in this case, the tracking

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Speaker 4: isn't like a byproduct. It is the products, and it

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Speaker 4: is not a bug. It is absolutely a feature. And

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Speaker 4: you can look at other people's profiles and you look

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Speaker 4: at their routes as a way of like, oh, I

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Speaker 4: might want to do that routes, not like necessarily as

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Speaker 4: a way of stalking them per se.

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Speaker 3: But of course there's the dark side of all of them. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: Like I say, you share the segment share of the recommend.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's say you're a biker and you're in a

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Speaker 2: town that you're not used to being in, but you've

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Speaker 2: got a bike, you have access to a bike, you

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Speaker 2: want to go out for the day. It's way more

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Speaker 2: helpful to see where people are going because we know

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Speaker 2: how dangerous it is to be on a bike in

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Speaker 2: a lot of places. You know, and maybe you don't

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Speaker 2: understand how strenuous of a ride something is going to

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Speaker 2: be or where it's going to lead. Look at Strava. Hey,

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Speaker 2: now I've got three or four potential routes I can

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Speaker 2: take and it's going to be a great day.

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Speaker 3: And Strava says, don't worry. This is relatively anonymous, relatively

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Speaker 3: caveat asterisk. People loved this concept of the app, and

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Speaker 3: it changed as it grew, which always happens. I believe

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Speaker 3: was May of twenty twenty, really, as the pandemic lockdown's

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Speaker 3: hitting fever pitch, the company updates its terms and con

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Speaker 3: they get that freemium model going. They say, look, we've

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Speaker 3: been busting our hubs for everybody. We've been really flexing

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Speaker 3: our calves to help out our fellow cyclist and people

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Speaker 3: doing exercise, but we have not made a profit yet.

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Speaker 3: We do so much stuff we gotta make Yeah, we

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Speaker 3: got to make a little money, we got to pay

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Speaker 3: the blood price. So because the US first, right, right, yeah,

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Speaker 3: then you get the money, right And so they say, look,

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Speaker 3: you can technically still use the app for free, but

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Speaker 3: for the advanced features aka the things people love about Strava,

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Speaker 3: you're going to have to subscribe. So some of the

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Speaker 3: stuff that was free is now only available with a

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Speaker 3: paid subscription, and any new features we have are also

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Speaker 3: going to only be available if you cough up some

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Speaker 3: scheddar or scooch out some scratch or another fun word

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Speaker 3: for paying money. Coughing up cheddar sounds scary. Coughing up

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Speaker 3: cheddar sounds like a medical condition. Why don't we give

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Speaker 3: the direct quote from Strava about this change.

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Speaker 2: A few of our free features that are specially complex

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Speaker 2: and expensive to maintain, like segment leader boards, will now

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Speaker 2: become subscription features. See I'm doing it like the way? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: make it sound like? Are you sweet?

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Speaker 5: He's vaguely Swedish?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but not really. And from now on, more

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Speaker 2: of our new feature development will be for all subscribers.

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Speaker 2: We'll invest the most in the athletes who have invested

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Speaker 2: in us.

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Speaker 3: Right that last lines a banger? Also well done? I

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Speaker 3: think on the on the recap there, Matt, I love

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Speaker 3: the voice. I want to know more about this character.

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Speaker 4: So can I just ask to if I, as a

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Speaker 4: new user, want to get the free version, what does

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Speaker 4: that mean for me?

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Speaker 2: Now you get the base model?

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Speaker 3: Son, Yeah, you get shamed. Are your fellow cyclists you

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Speaker 3: invest You can't see the leader board? Bro? I forgot

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Speaker 3: you can't.

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Speaker 2: You gotta give? How are you going to invest in yourself?

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Speaker 3: You don't invest in us, Bro, We invested the athletes

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Speaker 3: who invest in us.

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Speaker 2: If that's the site you gotta give, it's.

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Speaker 3: The cycle of life. Okay. We can't afford the sound cube.

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Speaker 3: So these moves are always going to be controversial among

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Speaker 3: the user base. Mainly, these things are controversial because people

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Speaker 3: don't dig it when something that was free becomes a regular,

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Speaker 3: recurring cost. Right. That's a huge problem on the internet

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Speaker 3: and internet services in general. But Cyclist magazine was super

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Speaker 3: into this because to that earlier point, cycling has been

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Speaker 3: a huge part of Strava from the jump, and they

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Speaker 3: even asked a fellow Strava user, a psychologist named Ben Dowman,

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Speaker 3: to weigh in on this and his quote. Ben's quote

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Speaker 3: is pretty fascinating. So uh, let's see who wants who

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Speaker 3: wants to do a character voice for this Nolie, you

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Speaker 3: got one. I'm gonna do sort of an ed game voice.

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Speaker 3: From the outside.

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Speaker 4: As a user myself, Strava's communication has been very parent

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Speaker 4: child sorry.

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Speaker 2: The show.

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Speaker 4: He sounds like the old man from Family Guy. It's

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Speaker 4: a choice.

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Speaker 6: We have had free access to Strava's functions for a

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Speaker 6: very long time, and now it feels like we are

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Speaker 6: having our favorite toy taken away from us with no

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Speaker 6: room for discussion on negotiation.

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Speaker 2: You just gotta get no discussion or negotiation.

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Speaker 5: Just give Look at Dildon, he gives yeah.

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Speaker 3: He's a lot of people give you hit me in

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Speaker 3: the cup City customers, but I mean yeah. People weren't

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Speaker 3: super happy about it. Strava still soldiered on, and it

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Speaker 3: maintained that despite the leaderboards the social aspects of the service,

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Speaker 3: they did not have a side gig profiting off personal data. Specifically,

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Speaker 3: Strava's then global marketing director Simon Klima stated, subscription has

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Speaker 3: always been at the heart of Strava, making up the

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Speaker 3: vast majority of our revenue. We do not sell personal

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Speaker 3: information before and we do not sell it now. It's

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Speaker 3: reassuring to hear, and this is something we have to know,

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Speaker 3: Like a lot of companies of this genre and size

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Speaker 3: are still going to be pretty cagey about the specifics

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Speaker 3: of their data how it's used internally, that those kind

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Speaker 3: of stats are their secret sauce, right.

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Speaker 2: Just like twenty three and meters. We're not going to

389
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Speaker 2: use your person. Sorry, everything's fine, but it does make

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Speaker 2: sense right where the subscription itself and the money coming

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Speaker 2: in from that would be enough for a time, it

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Speaker 2: would show enough growth and as more and more people

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Speaker 2: who are using the app regularly start to give, then hey,

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Speaker 2: the company is profitable. The problems come and they need more.

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Speaker 2: So you either got to get more users, increase your price,

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Speaker 2: or find another stream.

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Speaker 3: Mmmmm yeah, because you got to get those year over

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Speaker 3: year profits. This is so par for the course, and

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Speaker 3: we got to say it. As a private entity, Strava

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Speaker 3: is fully within its legal rights. But the second issue,

401
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Speaker 3: the reason we're here tonight, it's not about what Strava

402
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Speaker 3: intentionally may or may not do with user data. It's

403
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Speaker 3: about the unintentional consequences the user security. What happens when

404
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Speaker 3: things go pair shaped as our pals, Pete and Boss

405
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,920
Speaker 3: would say what happens when things go wrong? We talked

406
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Speaker 3: in the past. You know, another episode this reminds me

407
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Speaker 3: of is an ongoing conversation we had about the idea

408
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Speaker 3: of a world without secrets, a world in which social apps, hackers,

409
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Speaker 3: the information age all combine and amalgamate to erode the

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Speaker 3: concept of privacy and push every individual, willingly or not,

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Speaker 3: into the public sphere. I believe, Matt it was you

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Speaker 3: earlier said the idea of being public figures. Right, We're

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Speaker 3: looking at a world wherein everyone to some degree is

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Speaker 3: a public figure, even if that's not what they want.

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Speaker 3: It's another step in the rabbit hole. You know. Strava

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Speaker 3: was and is a gold mine for sensitive information. We

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Speaker 3: could argue it was inevitable. It was simply a matter

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Speaker 3: of time before some of that information leaked.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because those public figures we're talking about, they

420
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Speaker 2: don't want to be seen at all times. They want

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Speaker 2: to be seen at the times they want to be seen, right,

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Speaker 2: the profitable times, the times when they're out doing the

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Speaker 2: official stuff. The thing we got to remember about people

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Speaker 2: who have a lot of power or are are that public,

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Speaker 2: they often have teams of people around them, wouldn't you say, guys.

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Speaker 4: Oh gosh, you handlers, They would be called I guess.

427
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Speaker 4: And also those appearances that you're talking about, they go

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Speaker 4: to a great lengths often to make them seem natural

429
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Speaker 4: and organic, but they are vetted.

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Speaker 3: There's hair and makeup.

431
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Speaker 4: There's all of these aspects that lead to the rollout

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Speaker 4: of this very public event. And that's part of the

433
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Speaker 4: reason that I mean, it's interesting because you have things

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Speaker 4: like Twitter that sort of opened a lot of celebrity

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Speaker 4: life up in a way that wasn't or at least

436
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 4: didn't seem so vetted and so polished. But now there's

437
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,719
Speaker 4: almost this backlash against that because the pendulum swung too

438
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 4: far in that direction, right hmmm, I mean, you know

439
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 4: what I mean, not backlash against that, but it's just like,

440
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 4: I think we are back to a bit more of

441
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,880
Speaker 4: a time where it's a little bit more cautious. There's

442
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 4: a little bit more caution going into some of these

443
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 4: events and these sort of perceived public appearances.

444
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 3: There is an intense on go social debate over what

445
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 3: should or should not be behind the proverbial curtain. So again,

446
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 3: was the strava gold mine just inevitably going to get leveraged.

447
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 3: We'll learn more afterword from our sponsors. Here's where it

448
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 3: gets crazy, all right. We talked about this in the

449
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 3: strange news story you brought us bat earlier this year.

450
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 3: Data from Strava has become a security concern, not once,

451
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,239
Speaker 3: but multiple times, and it's because it's part of an

452
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 3: economy of scale thing. Really, it's extremely popular with so

453
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 3: many folks to your point about cyclist Noll, including celebrities, royalty,

454
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 3: members of the world's security and military services. I think

455
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 3: one example we had earlier a precedent for what happened

456
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 3: with this company Strava, is you know the guys who

457
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 3: send off well intentioned emails from their deployment at a

458
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 3: nuclear sub I miss you, Grandma. We're right around Malta.

459
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 3: Things are heating up. You know. That's that's a rough thing.

460
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 3: That's well intentioned, but it can tell too much information

461
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 3: to the bad guys. Absolutely.

462
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 2: Well. Yeah, when Facebook brought around its idea that hey,

463
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 2: you can check in to a physical location wherever you go,

464
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,959
Speaker 2: and then imagine that the public figure themselves. Who if

465
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 2: we're imagining an individual right that let's say President isn't

466
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 2: going to go check in on Facebook when they go somewhere, right,

467
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 2: not going to happen, but somebody in the entourage might

468
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 2: somebody you know who's just a tertiary figure that's in there,

469
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 2: or maybe even perhaps a security official, right, somebody who's

470
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 2: on staff as security. They might check in a little

471
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 2: later after the gig's done.

472
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 3: Or In November of twenty seventeen, Strava created a public

473
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 3: global heat map and you can see all kinds of

474
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 3: pictures of this. It collected two years of movement data

475
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 3: from all the users around the world from twenty fifteen

476
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 3: to twenty seventeen. And then just a few months later,

477
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 3: it's January of twenty eighteen, and this awesome kid, Nathan.

478
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 3: I hope it doesn't offend you if I call you

479
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 3: a kid. He's twenty years old. He's an Australian international

480
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,679
Speaker 3: security student. His name is Nathan Ruser r User, and

481
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 3: he notices something bizarre. He's our first public Charlie Day

482
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 3: in this situation. He says, hang on this heat map.

483
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 3: It's not updating live, it's not real time information, but

484
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 3: it is mapped military bases across the planet. Because people

485
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 3: are sharing their recommended roots, their segments. You know, they

486
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 3: want their kudos, their likes, and you can see you

487
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 3: can see as a result of this movement tracking you

488
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 3: you can see the roots for everything from US bases

489
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 3: in Syria and Afghanistan to the hm n B Clyde,

490
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 3: which is the Royal Navy base that has the UK's

491
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 3: nuclear arsenal. You can see it. We've got an example

492
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 3: here from a US base in Afghanistan in the Hellman's Province.

493
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 3: This comes directly from Strava's global heat map. Do you

494
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 3: want to describe what it looks like here? It looks

495
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 3: like a line drawing and the brighter lines are the

496
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 3: more well traveled roots.

497
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks like a grid system of of you know,

498
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 2: a small base. It's tough to know. Are these interior

499
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 2: or exterior routes? Right? Are there any doors involved here?

500
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 2: It does look exterior to me. And then it's got

501
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 2: what looks like maybe a small airstrip or something that

502
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 2: the person has run around in a bit of a

503
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 2: more organic shape rather than the straight grid lines in

504
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 2: the other parts.

505
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe I like the airstrip idea met because maybe

506
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 3: that's where you can get your quick quarter mile in.

507
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 3: Do that a couple of times, and it's one of

508
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 3: the brighter lines. So also want to shout out Nathan

509
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 3: for keeping it so falcon it is interviews. He was

510
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 3: talking with the BBC and he later said, look, I

511
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 3: just looked at it and I thought, oh hell, this

512
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 3: should not be here. This is not good. So I

513
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 3: went and told the public.

514
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about what this really means. So if

515
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 2: you've got a map like this of a military structure,

516
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: do you think this would be that helpful? Is somebody

517
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 2: planning something?

518
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 3: Oh yes, yeah, very helpful, thank you Strava.

519
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 2: But don't we all have like Google maps and things,

520
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 2: and if somebody wanted to cause harm at a military base,

521
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 2: you can find a military base, look at it from

522
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 2: above and see pretty much this, right.

523
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not like world governments and terrorists don't already

524
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 3: know where all the bases are. Even black sites get

525
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 3: clocked eventually. Shout out to our previous episodes on that

526
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 3: and like you're saying, there, Matt, sattech can provide clear

527
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 3: pictures of any exposed compound, right, Okay, yeah, so Strava's

528
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 3: heat map is an added benefit. These they're the sprinkles

529
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 3: on the sandwich, right Because it displays levels of activity

530
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 3: via increasing light, which reveals which of those military buildings

531
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 3: are the most frequented, and it also tells you the

532
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,719
Speaker 3: roots that soldiers would take in and around the compound.

533
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 3: The location data can extend beyond the base too, which

534
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 3: means you can see the commonly used exercise roots or

535
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 3: regularly patrolled roads. Because a lot of people probably did

536
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 3: the thing, so many other folks do. They just clicked

537
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 3: yes on the terms and conditions and they never checked

538
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 3: their privacy settings.

539
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 2: Oh dude, or maybe someone turns it on, like puts

540
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 2: the walk on. I'm just going for a walk, right,

541
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 2: but it's part of my exercise, so I'm gonna bank

542
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 2: it now. I'm just walking through the facility. But that

543
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 2: makes sense in my head, I'm thinking all exterior, But no,

544
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 2: that would that would totally check out. You could walk

545
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 2: into the most sensitive parts and now they've got a

546
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 2: map on how to get to.

547
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 3: Them, as long as you can bring your phone right

548
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 3: or but then they've got the watch situation as well,

549
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 3: Like there's a way you know, when you click.

550
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 4: The watch for a workout, you can do an indoor

551
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 4: walk or an outdoor walk or whatever. The type of

552
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 4: activity might be, and people that are really into like

553
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 4: making sure they're banking that stuff. To your point, Matt,

554
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 4: they're always gonna put that in it in there and

555
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,479
Speaker 4: make sure that it's counting that down. So you know

556
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 4: that for that period of time when you're on the

557
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 4: move in a certain indoor facility, that's a pretty easy

558
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 4: thing to identify, you know what that durn frames.

559
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 3: And if you can't have the phone, then you obviously

560
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 3: can't have the smart watch either. Yes, it's definitely and

561
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 3: it also shows us another advantage that doesn't really fix

562
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 3: the problem, because if you've got the map of everything else,

563
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 3: you've got the heat map of the rest of the place.

564
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 3: You know where the black hole is right, you know

565
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 3: where the skiff is or whatever other sensitive stuff. So

566
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 3: if someone is a bad actor, a bad guy, they've

567
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:42,959
Speaker 3: got to be in their bonnet, they get a badger

568
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 3: in their bag, they want to attack something, Strava's heat

569
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 3: map could accidentally give them the chance to plan the

570
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 3: perfect aggression, you know, knowing how to get in, where

571
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 3: to go immediately, where to hit with maximum impact, and

572
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 3: then how to ghost out successfully afterwards. Strava potentially gave

573
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 3: some really bad guys for really awesome gifts. Wow.

574
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's not just the military basis, right, because

575
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 2: you have to imagine this could be any building anywhere,

576
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 2: even let's say a chateau somewhere in the mountains out.

577
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 5: Right, perhaps a chalet in Switzerland.

578
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a true story, this the Swedes.

579
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, like, but it's weird to think of

580
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 2: it that way because it could also be maps, if

581
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 2: you're in a mountainous region, maps to get to that place, right,

582
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 2: and then you could see an alternate way to get

583
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 2: to that facility or that even again, just that house

584
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 2: that is not marked by people walking on it regularly, exactly.

585
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 3: And this is why our pal Nathan went public with

586
00:33:55,360 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 3: this quickly. Just like a white hat hacker, which he

587
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 3: says he's not. He's connecting dots and he realized that

588
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 3: if he was connecting these, someone else probably was doing

589
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 3: the same thing or had. And to their credits, Strava

590
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 3: responded very quickly. Their CEO, James Quarrels said Strava is

591
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 3: committed to working with military and government officials to address

592
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 3: these concerns, and then additionally said we're going to simplify

593
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 3: our privacy features so that the end user has a

594
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 3: better understanding, a more clear understanding of what they are

595
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 3: or are not publicizing to the world at large. But

596
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 3: at this point, the horse has left the lamp, the

597
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 3: jen is out of the barn, the badger's out of

598
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,320
Speaker 3: the bag. More Shenanigans are on the way. We've got

599
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 3: so many more examples to get to. Should we take

600
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 3: a break for a word from our sponsors here, because

601
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 3: I know we're all darkly fascinated by how many things

602
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 3: went wrong? I think we must, and we've returned. In

603
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 3: a similar case to the Afghanistan stuff and to the

604
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 3: Royal Navy stuff. Military bases in Israel fell to a

605
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 3: similar security vulnerability, but it was different because this goes

606
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 3: to Nol's earlier point about hacking stuff right or acting

607
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 3: in bad faith. I wasn't aware of this. You can

608
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 3: upload fake roots or segments suggested roots to a region,

609
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 3: and then when you upload that, if people engage in,

610
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 3: if they use it right a route that you have

611
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 3: never actually run. You're just laying out this thing as

612
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 3: an if. Then if a local user decides to take

613
00:35:55,560 --> 00:36:00,320
Speaker 3: this track, you, the segment poster can learn earned the

614
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 3: identities or past routes of those users. Who fell for

615
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,720
Speaker 3: your your fake trail, your fake grift.

616
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 5: Oh snap, I didn't know you could do that.

617
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 2: You know, well, if that's intense and that seems like

618
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 2: the route that would be taken. But I didn't think about.

619
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 2: Let's say you're targeting some public official, right and you

620
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 2: know that they live because they're a public official in

621
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 2: some around some area close by to this one place.

622
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 2: You could physically, using the app, go and run near

623
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 2: that area. Just create those things as well. But I

624
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 2: didn't even know you could upload a fake one.

625
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,399
Speaker 3: You could just dumb me up a fake one.

626
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's insane.

627
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 3: Here's my daily run to the best swimming area in Diego, Garcia.

628
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 2: Because you could correlate users who use it, I'm saying

629
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 2: you can. You can find the identities of people that

630
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 2: may actually be in the facility or connected to the

631
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,720
Speaker 2: public official your targeting, even.

632
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 3: If they've maxed out their privacy settings.

633
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 2: Jesus.

634
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 3: But like Strava's not canceled.

635
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 4: I mean people are still using it, Like this didn't

636
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 4: tank My companys and millions of people fascinating that a

637
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 4: scandal to the of this magnitude isn't enough to you know,

638
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 4: topple an organization like this, I think because many folks

639
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 4: kind of look at it the way I do, where

640
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 4: it's like occasionally there's going to be some things that

641
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 4: go wrong and it's still worth it to me, you know,

642
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 4: for the benefits that I get from it.

643
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 3: To take that risk, I would have I would have

644
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 3: shout out all of us. All you guys all are

645
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 3: fellow conspiracy realist who are getting in their Strava time

646
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 3: right now as you're listening to the show, Thanks for

647
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 3: letting us ride along with you. Don't don't hang up

648
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 3: on Strava yet, but you got to hear some more stuff.

649
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 3: I just think this is an interesting experience for those

650
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 3: of us who are, you know, running treadmiller in the

651
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 3: streets or or on a bike or a stationary bike,

652
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 3: doing whatever you're doing.

653
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 2: Especially those people using Garman Connect right now. Yeah, because

654
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 2: that those folks are getting sued by Strava, and Strava

655
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,280
Speaker 2: is saying, hey, you can't make any more stuff Garmin

656
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 2: because you're using our heat map stuff.

657
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 3: Yeah you're using it, yeah, our heat maps and for

658
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 3: the people and maybe the terrorist and maybe the talkers.

659
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 3: But so twenty twenty three and please, please please keep

660
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 3: your Strava going as you're listening, folks. Twenty twenty three

661
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,800
Speaker 3: was also a tough year for Strava because people found

662
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 3: heat map data could reveal the home addresses of active

663
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 3: users in remote areas. And there's a there's a paper

664
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,760
Speaker 3: you can read about this online for free for now

665
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 3: from some three very smart people in the Carolinas, and

666
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,280
Speaker 3: they walk through the process, which gets a little bit complicated,

667
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 3: but it's still disturbing, especially because a lot of people

668
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 3: who live in remote areas are doing so on purpose

669
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 3: because they don't want to be identified, doxed and hunted down.

670
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 3: You know.

671
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go over the timeline again quickly, guys, just

672
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 2: so we understand how much stuff has really is accumulating

673
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 2: right here for Strava. Right nine, we said is when

674
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,280
Speaker 2: it gets created. Twenty seventeen is the first big scandal.

675
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,760
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty two is the thing where the Israel bases

676
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 2: get revealed. Now we're in twenty twenty three and we're

677
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 2: figuring out, oh God, anybody and everybody is going to

678
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: get revealed here. Surely there's not more.

679
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 3: Oh surely there is, right that? I mean?

680
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 5: Yeah?

681
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 3: Then then same year Strava was used to identify a

682
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 3: native of Raleigh, North Carolina who lit a Trump one

683
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 3: lawn sign on fire. So you know, like we've all

684
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 3: seen political yard signs, this guy lit what up.

685
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 2: And like the Strava route put him.

686
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 3: The Strava route put him, They got him, he got popped,

687
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 3: he got jammed up. We're not saying it's right to

688
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 3: burn stuffed out.

689
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 4: No, And I do think it's worth mentioning in this conversation.

690
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 4: Some other kind of examples of this, like ring cameras

691
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 4: that are you know, app connected, and there are various

692
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 4: kind of murky layers to the privacy surrounding them, and

693
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 4: like to what degree can authorities essentially co opt your

694
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 4: ring feed in ways that could even potentially compromise you

695
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 4: if you've done something wrong. The key there being if

696
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 4: you've done something wrong. Because I always say that I

697
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 4: really don't care too much whether these companies are tracking

698
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 4: me because I'm not out there breaking the lawn and

699
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 4: burning down Trump.

700
00:40:58,400 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 3: Signs and things.

701
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 2: You know, well, it's just on who you're hanging with.

702
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 4: Absolutely true, and I hear you're app There's no question

703
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 4: that I hear you.

704
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 3: Guys. The the Kevin Bacon rule of Hoover and intelligence

705
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 3: is like you said, Matt, I think that's a concern,

706
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 3: and Noel to your point, while I hear you on that,

707
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 3: one of the one of the bigger concerns is what

708
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,760
Speaker 3: if something becomes wrong later.

709
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 4: That's also very, very true, and I completely understand, especially

710
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 4: in the world we're living and now, associations could come

711
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 4: back to haunt you various things. Any you know how

712
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 4: granular is it going to get in terms of like

713
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 4: where were you at this particular time, did you go

714
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 4: to a place that is now a known whatever?

715
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 3: Like, guys, let's think about Ice And that's exactly right.

716
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 5: That's a huge concern. Yeah, Ice and Strava apps, Ice

717
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 5: and Strava apps.

718
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 2: We you know exactly where this guy runs. We'll just

719
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 2: put a van strategically located.

720
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:53,919
Speaker 3: It's so hairy man.

721
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 2: Can we get to the public figures thing? Because this

722
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 2: is I think we're getting into the territory where the

723
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 2: really maybe scary stuff. This is all scary stuff, but

724
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 2: this is like just the fact that right now you

725
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 2: can go to a website called rollcall dot com and

726
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:17,240
Speaker 2: you can look at President Donald Trump's calendar, the official

727
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 2: public calendar. There are a bunch of places online where

728
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 2: you could find that public calendar. I think white House

729
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 2: dot gov has a version of it deep in there

730
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 2: somewhere you can see what the official scheduled events are

731
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,399
Speaker 2: for the President of the United States. Right, you can

732
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 2: see the same thing for let's say Emmanuel Macron, the

733
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 2: president of France.

734
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 3: Justin Trudeau back in the day.

735
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, most of these extremely public figures, especially government officials,

736
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 2: are gonna have some kind of public facing schedule of events,

737
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 2: including times. So it's not just on this day we're

738
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 2: doing that. It's this is at nineteen hundred hours, we're

739
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 2: going to be.

740
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 3: Here Atlanta three pm. We're going to celebrate National Route

741
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 3: to Bega Day, and the Vice President is going to

742
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 3: be in attendance from three fifteen to three forty five exactly.

743
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:13,280
Speaker 2: Well today, just to use this exact thing on Elisi

744
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 2: E l y see dot FR, I can see that

745
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 2: Emmanuel Mcron at sixteen hundred hours today on October sixth,

746
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 2: is going to be having a meeting with the Council

747
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 2: of Ministers. That's happening today. But what we don't know

748
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 2: is what's happening immediately after that, where the president is

749
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 2: going to go right, we don't know that part.

750
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 3: We don't until we lead Dodd Strava. In October of

751
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, journalists at Lemones but we can't say

752
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 3: enough good stuff about them. They discovered that Strava had

753
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 3: exposed unknowingly the locations and activities of world leaders because

754
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 3: of their security teams. The folks who travel with big

755
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 3: name political figures like US presidents or Manuel Macron or

756
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 3: Justin Trudeau. You know, those guys tend to be in

757
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 3: pretty good shape. And when they're not at work, they're

758
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 3: working out because they got to be ready.

759
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 2: We're saying the security teams, right.

760
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 3: The security teams were logging their stuff.

761
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was used to then track the proximity to

762
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 4: the public figure they were in charge.

763
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 3: Of, right, one hundred percent. Yes, you're correct, And so,

764
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,720
Speaker 3: as Matt mentioned in our earlier Strange News program, Strava

765
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 3: fitness data also revealed private locations of people who, yeah,

766
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,800
Speaker 3: I guess they're public figures. They're more like high value targets,

767
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 3: the Swedish royal family. And this all came from the

768
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 3: security teams who were like, all right, I've got you know,

769
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 3: I've got Dylan on the next shift. So I got

770
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 3: to get my steps in. You know, I'm gonna take

771
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 3: a run, I'm gonna move some weights, and taking the

772
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 3: run or taking the bike is really where you get

773
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 3: that that crunchy corner brownie of opset.

774
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah, but what we're talking about the King

775
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 2: and queen, right, the King and queen and where they

776
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 2: personally vacation, so behind.

777
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 3: The curtain the stuff I don't want you to know.

778
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 2: You're not supposed to know that at all. And the

779
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,760
Speaker 2: security person is just as you said, doing something innocent,

780
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 2: trying to get some exercise when he's not he or

781
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 2: she is not officially on duty. And that single act

782
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 2: allowed Leamond and anybody else who was interested to go, oh,

783
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 2: they must be up there at that giant mansion slash

784
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 2: castle the.

785
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 3: People. So okay, we gotta be fair, all right, this

786
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 3: is it, Dylan. I'm say I'm cursing so much in

787
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 3: this episode. Please beat me here. This is a huge gup.

788
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 3: This is like a bad thing to happen. And Strava,

789
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 3: in their defense, absolutely did not tend this. They played

790
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 3: no active, knowing role in setting up possible attacks. They're

791
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 3: just a successful business that is already doing the thing

792
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:15,320
Speaker 3: adolescent businesses do, which is you expand you acquire competitors

793
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 3: other companies, you make more features, you get more money.

794
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 3: You're about that bag. That's what Strava is doing. And

795
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:27,399
Speaker 3: Strava has made multiple public statements for each of these

796
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 3: reported incidents. In the case that we mentioned earlier, doxing

797
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 3: people in remote locations, they came out with a pretty

798
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 3: strident public statement, which I suggest we read just in

799
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,280
Speaker 3: the interest of objectivity and fairness.

800
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 4: For sure, the safety and privacy of our community is

801
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 4: our highest priority. We've long had a suite of privacy controls,

802
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:56,839
Speaker 4: including map visibility controls that give users control over what

803
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 4: they share and who it's shared with.

804
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 3: And it continues. They say Strava does not track users

805
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 3: or share data without their permission. When users share their

806
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 3: aggregated de identified data with the heat map and Strava Metro,

807
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,359
Speaker 3: they contribute to a one of a kind data set

808
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:20,399
Speaker 3: that helps urban planners as they develop better infrastructure from

809
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 3: people on foot and bikes, and makes it easy to

810
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:26,800
Speaker 3: plan routes with the knowledge of the community. This interview

811
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 3: is over, y'all.

812
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 4: Really, I know, urban planners, I mean yeah, I mean

813
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 4: we need we need some more sidewalk over here.

814
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 2: We need some over there.

815
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 5: True, that's all true, but it's a little bit of

816
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 5: a reach.

817
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 3: It's like, I get it. I'm just saying, it's like

818
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 3: that DMZ video about how the Korean War is great

819
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 3: for birds. It seems to be missing the root of

820
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 3: me of the matter. Yes, sir, just so. It's the

821
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 3: wrong vegetable and wrong badger in the bag here, and

822
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 3: I love that. We also notice something sneaky. Putting the

823
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:06,919
Speaker 3: onus on the consumer always always tail as old as time,

824
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 3: classic pr move.

825
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:16,320
Speaker 2: We didn't expect those security personnel to share their stuff? Silly?

826
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 3: Oh secret service? Am I right? What else? What else

827
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 3: they're playing? Food? Oh jesus h. Anyway, it seems it

828
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 3: does seem that Strava. I don't know what you guys think,

829
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:31,240
Speaker 3: but it seems that Strava is making good faith efforts

830
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 3: to mitigate the security risk here, but they're doing so

831
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 3: while still ensuring the success and growth of the company,

832
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 3: more users, more subscription fees year over year. Capitalism pays

833
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 3: the blood price, you know, and tries not to end

834
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 3: up in the stone chair. So will these two goals

835
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 3: ever become mutually exclusive? Will the promise or the drive

836
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 3: the necessity of profit on the horizon. Will it get

837
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 3: them to cut corners on the security concerns and put

838
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 3: the put the responsibility and accountability even more on the

839
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 3: end user. I don't know.

840
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 2: I don't know, man. The private vacationing area for the

841
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 2: royal family is one thing, because they're not going to

842
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 2: be there that often, right, They're just going to be

843
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 2: hanging out there for a couple of weeks and.

844
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 3: A year maybe, and they own tons of places that

845
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:25,720
Speaker 3: they barely visit.

846
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And there's going to be

847
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,919
Speaker 2: a ton of security there hence all the running, right

848
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 2: and on all the folks who are currently off duty

849
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,879
Speaker 2: because they're way more on duty. But when you imagine

850
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 2: the location of someone's personal domicile, their house where they live,

851
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,760
Speaker 2: the address where one of these people lives, like the

852
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 2: Prime Minister of Sweden's private address where you go home

853
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 2: and try and sleep sometimes after doing a bunch of work,

854
00:49:56,719 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 2: imagine that that location becomes at risk because not only

855
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 2: is it information about physically where it is, what the

856
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 2: address is so someone can just get there, you've also

857
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 2: now got routes that security personnel take around that house, right,

858
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 2: And that's where somebody who just has ill will but

859
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,320
Speaker 2: doesn't have a lot of planning. It's not going to

860
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 2: be crazy helpful for This is only really helpful for

861
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 2: the people that you know, imagine a serial killer that's

862
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 2: extremely organized, somebody who is focused and is going to

863
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:36,359
Speaker 2: use that data for bad things. That's the actually dangerous

864
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:40,240
Speaker 2: person or group of people, and this is what helps them.

865
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is tasty, tasty stuff. It also, you know,

866
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 3: it doesn't take a state sponsored hacker, It doesn't take

867
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 3: any of that amazing secret in sa tech to gather

868
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 3: this information. You just have to be determined and have

869
00:50:56,200 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 3: the time and an Internet connection. That is the frightening part.

870
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 3: Anybody with enough time to connect the dots could have

871
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 3: arrived at similar conclusions as soon as the heat map hit,

872
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 3: and probably well before that if they were active in

873
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 3: if they were active on Strava. And that's why our pal,

874
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 3: the kind of the hero of the story, Nathan Russer,

875
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 3: moved so quickly to report this to the public. I

876
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 3: think one thing that may be reassuring for us to

877
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 3: share fellow conspiracy realists, especially folks on Strava. Right now,

878
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 3: as of this moment, as of this recording Monday, October sixth.

879
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 3: There have been no verified attacks that have been proven

880
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 3: to have leveraged data from Strava or data whatever, Tomato tomatow,

881
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 3: But it does seem there's a storm on the horizon

882
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 3: because Strava is not unique. There are other like one

883
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 3: of us was saying earlier, there are other things that

884
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 3: track and share in much the same manner. Countless apps

885
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 3: are taken your information to do similar stuff, and once

886
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 3: they get big enough, economy of scale kicks in. You

887
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 3: can make another world map. That's right. I aggregate all

888
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:08,280
Speaker 3: that stuff together.

889
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 2: It's and then but then you see the state of

890
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 2: the world in so many countries right now. Guys. I

891
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 2: haven't been looking closely at France at all, but because

892
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 2: of Lamond in this episode, I ended up just, oh, well,

893
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 2: what's going on in France right now? Like politically and

894
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 2: all that good stuff. And then you see, you know,

895
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 2: another prime minister that was appointed for only a year

896
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 2: just resigned, like literally I think today or the past

897
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 2: couple of days. There's there's kind of chaos happening and

898
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 2: changing of guard happening across the world, but in not

899
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 2: normal ways that we would see in democracies right.

900
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 3: Right, not the peaceful passage of power.

901
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 2: It's happening all over the place. And then you just

902
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 2: imagine this kind of information is out there, and it

903
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 2: doesn't take long to see the motivations that someone might

904
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 2: have to take act Like we've been describing today.

905
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 3: Right, the barriers are much lower now you can get touched, folks.

906
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 3: It's just true.

907
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:13,280
Speaker 2: It's scary, man, because it speaks to just a larger

908
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 2: kind of state of chaos that we're entering.

909
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, it's a storm on the horizon by all

910
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 3: all metrics we can tell, and by now obviously in

911
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:29,720
Speaker 3: this brave new world, we should each carry a healthy skepticism,

912
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 3: if not outright paranoia about apps in general, especially things

913
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:38,799
Speaker 3: linked to your mobile devices, those obscure terms and conditions

914
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 3: about how your stuff gets recorded, stored, and shared. I

915
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 3: know we're all fans of, you know, very specific ways

916
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 3: of learning. We're fans of very specific apps as a result,

917
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 3: and Noel, thank you again for hipping me to Dark

918
00:53:55,200 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 3: Skies for a great primer on this of stuff on

919
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 3: Strava in particular. In the larger issue, do check out

920
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 3: Undercode Testing's article how Strava data leaks are endangering world

921
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 3: leaders a cybersecurity wake up call. The issue is real.

922
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 3: I mean, these things are so convenient, that's true. But

923
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 3: I think we can argue in this case the convenience

924
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 3: itself is becoming the conspiracy.

925
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:24,879
Speaker 2: Yeah.

926
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 4: Sure, yeah, But I guess just to bring up what

927
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 4: I mentioned earlier about like this is not have we

928
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 4: seen a market decrease in subscribers to the service as

929
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:37,240
Speaker 4: a result of this news.

930
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 3: I don't think so. No. Similar to the hit they

931
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 3: took with the move to a subscription model, they encountered

932
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 3: a dip, but it's still like it's similar to Facebook.

933
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 3: People are just going to be sandboxed in. They're going

934
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 3: to be using it. You're, as you said, you're a

935
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:56,879
Speaker 3: competitive biker. Maybe like I'm, I'm a competitive biker. I'm

936
00:54:56,920 --> 00:55:00,399
Speaker 3: gearing up to really do some stuff. Then I need

937
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,359
Speaker 3: those stats. I need that context, and that's what people

938
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 3: are doing well.

939
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 4: And again I'm not maybe I am willfully putting on

940
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 4: blinders to some of this stuff, But as soon as

941
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:12,279
Speaker 4: we get done recording this, I'm going to download that.

942
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:17,439
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm into it, I think, and I don't

943
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:22,960
Speaker 4: necessarily see a willful effort to like defraud their users.

944
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 4: I think what we're talking about is a bigger picture

945
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:28,759
Speaker 4: issue with tracking, a bigger picture issue with what this

946
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 4: stuff can be.

947
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 3: Used for by these bad actors.

948
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 4: Yes, by the way, yeah, whoa, Well they can become buddies.

949
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 3: Is that a thing? Are you? Are you Strava buddies?

950
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 2: You should be? Can I tell you this, guys, I've

951
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 2: never once turned on the fitness tracking on my phone occasion.

952
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, okay.

953
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,439
Speaker 2: Location tracking, yes, one hundred percent. But I've never once

954
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:53,919
Speaker 2: turned the other stuff on. But there was a time

955
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 2: when I would turn off location services unless I absolutely

956
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:01,400
Speaker 2: needed it, and like I was gonna take use Google

957
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 2: Maps for something, right right, But I've stopped doing that

958
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 2: now because.

959
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 3: It hasn't it yeah, the.

960
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 2: Way that things require it now. So then it just

961
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 2: made me feel so complacent about like, fine, I'll freaking

962
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 2: leave it on. Yeah, Like that is the thing that

963
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:18,720
Speaker 2: is really scary.

964
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 3: It's also Yeah, the strangest breaches of privacy or the

965
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:27,799
Speaker 3: strangest things in general become normalized so quickly. That's an

966
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:31,319
Speaker 3: amazing thing about humanity. It's also a very frightening thing

967
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 3: about the human experiment, and we have to remember it

968
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:42,359
Speaker 3: will become increasingly inconvenient to hold the line on your

969
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 3: personal information. And I know we're all very we all

970
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:50,879
Speaker 3: have principles about that us listening along right now too.

971
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 3: But there's a prime movement to erod that sense of

972
00:56:56,719 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 3: privacy in personhood. That's what's happening. They can convenience is

973
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 3: the conspiracy. That's the stuff they don't want you to know.

974
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 3: You can find us on the iHeartRadio app. By the way,

975
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 3: promise trick you that much. Terms and conditions apply. We

976
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 3: can't wait to hear your thoughts, folks. Thanks so much

977
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:19,440
Speaker 3: for tuning in. Thanks as always to our super producer,

978
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 3: the real star of the show, Dylan, the Tennessee pal

979
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 3: Fake and Dylan. Before we before we throw to some CTAs,

980
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 3: how do we do man?

981
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 7: Excellent, excellent job. I've had some experience with Strava.

982
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 5: Oh can you tell us?

983
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 7: I was using it for biking for a while. The

984
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 7: thing that got me should have been the privacy concerns,

985
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 7: but it was when they made their feed non chronological.

986
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 3: Got it the algorithm?

987
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, I wanted to see the most interesting stuff first.

988
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 2: Oh my god, dude, you know what got me about Strava.

989
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 2: It is recently I don't know if you guys know this,

990
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 2: but there's a company out there called Garmin, and back

991
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety one they gave us this thing called

992
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 2: a GPS you could use in your boats and your

993
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 2: cars and everything else, and incredible.

994
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 3: It saved us in the national radio quiet zone. That's right.

995
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, see a garment man. Well, Strava has come out

996
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 2: and they are suing the pants off a garment because

997
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 2: Garmin makes their own stuff, as we alluded to earlier,

998
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 2: specifically their own hardware like a watch, so you're it's

999
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 2: supposed to be able to do the same things. And

1000
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 2: Strava is saying, hey, you are patent infringing us and

1001
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 2: you are now sued.

1002
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 3: Oh no, that's a reach. That feels like you're shaking

1003
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 3: our stuff. Yeah, that's like walking into a sports game

1004
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 3: and seeing somebody else with a baseball cap and saying,

1005
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 3: you piece of crap. I'm the one who wears baseball hats.

1006
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 3: I'm gonna sue you. I mean, it is true, but

1007
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:55,200
Speaker 3: you know, tech and patents are already such a sticky

1008
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 3: wicket and that might be a show for another day

1009
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:00,439
Speaker 3: if you want to learn more about patent law out

1010
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 3: our surprisingly not boring series on Ridiculous History where we

1011
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 3: talk all about ips and patents and if you want

1012
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 3: to make our day, fellow conspiracy realist, we would love

1013
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 3: to hear your thoughts, especially Strava users and especially people

1014
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 3: who object to Strava. Find us online, call us on

1015
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:22,520
Speaker 3: the phone. You can send us an email. You sure can.

1016
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 4: You can find ut the handle Conspiracy Stuff where we

1017
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:27,120
Speaker 4: exist on Facebook with our Facebook group Here's where it

1018
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 4: gets crazy, on x FKA, Twitter and on YouTube with

1019
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 4: video content galore for your perusing enjoyment on Instagram and TikTok.

1020
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 3: However, we're Conspiracy Stuff Show.

1021
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:39,439
Speaker 2: We have a phone number. It is one eight three

1022
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 2: three STDWYTK. Before you call, turn those letters into numbers.

1023
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 2: That's just a pro tip. When you do call, give

1024
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 2: yourself a cool nickname and let us know if we

1025
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 2: can use your name and message on the air. If

1026
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 2: you would like to send us a message via email,

1027
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 2: oh you can do that.

1028
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 3: We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence.

1029
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,919
Speaker 3: Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void writes back.

1030
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 3: Actually we're writing back now to personally thank everybody who

1031
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 3: reached out with such kind words post snuff Film episode

1032
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 3: so if you wrote to us about that, keep your

1033
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 3: eyes on the email. We will be with you very soon.

1034
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 3: Join us out here in the dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio

1035
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 3: dot com.

1036
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:43,480
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production

1037
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1038
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.