1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome to the Bloomberg 2 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: This Weekend Podcast with David Gura, Christina Raffini, and Elisa Matteo. 3 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us for today's selection of conversations from 4 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 2: the show. 5 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 3: You can listen to our favorite discussions right here on 6 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 3: the podcast, but also make sure to join us live 7 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 3: every Saturday and Sunday morning, starting at seven am Eastern. 8 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 4: We're on Bloomberg Television, Radio and the Bloomberg Business App, 9 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 4: bringing you unique takes and in depth interviews on news, politics, 10 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 4: lifestyle and culture. 11 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 5: So right now, at the Straight of Hormoos, the British 12 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 5: military is saying Iron's Revolutionary Guard open fire on a 13 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 5: tanker transiting through the Straight of horor moves. This comes 14 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 5: as Iron's military command says it's reimposed restrictions after President 15 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 5: Trump said yesterday the strait was, in his words, completely open. 16 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 5: Joining us now is the Secretary General of the UNS 17 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 5: International Maritime Organization. That's our senne amingas who've had on 18 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 5: a few times here over the course of this conflict. 19 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 5: Mister Secretary General, great to have you with us, and 20 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 5: let me just start with that definition. The President saying 21 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 5: the strait is completely open, is it? 22 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 6: In fact? On the Saturday Morning. 23 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 7: Listen yesterday, I asked for coutures when that announcement came, 24 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 7: particularly because we need to verify the full openness of 25 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 7: the credo for Moose. When I immediately contacted the literal 26 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 7: states in the region improving Iran, it was clear that 27 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 7: the freedom of navigations is not fully restored because the 28 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 7: traffic separation scheme that has been adopted by the IMO 29 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 7: back in nineteen sixty eight is still not open for navigations. 30 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 7: There are concerns that they may be minds, which meant 31 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 7: that the announcement from Iran about the opening of the 32 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 7: Sueita for Moose was something similar to what they announced 33 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 7: earlier when there would be some connections or some verifications 34 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 7: from this side. That actually doesn't follow the right of 35 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 7: freedom of navigations. And this is the reason why I 36 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 7: asked for cautions and that I was verifying the information 37 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 7: because for us, the full openness has to be in 38 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 7: a safe manner. 39 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 2: So you're talking about that TSS traffic pattern, the one 40 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 2: that's been there, the ones that ships have been using 41 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 2: that was never really reopened. 42 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,519 Speaker 7: That is correct and at present there are concerns that 43 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 7: there may be minds in this traffic separation scheme. This 44 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 7: is one of those areas where several countries met yesterday, 45 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 7: led by the United Kingdom in France, in order to 46 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 7: provide that assistance to verifye and clean the sort of 47 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 7: our moose from minds. Once the conflict comes to an end, 48 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 7: we all want progress, but we also need to make 49 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 7: sure that any transit in the sort of our moose 50 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 7: is not going to be doing any dangerous times and 51 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 7: of course put risk the life of the seafers. 52 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 5: A sticking point seems to be, mister Secretary General, the 53 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 5: presence of this US military blockade. The press in the 54 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 5: United States adamant that it's stay in place, around officials 55 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 5: saying it needs to go. How is that affecting the 56 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 5: flow of traffic? And if you got an end indication 57 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 5: that the US is willing to move all of that 58 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 5: military might here in the days and weeks ahead. 59 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 7: I haven't received any official confirmation from the United States 60 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 7: in that respect, and of course that announcement it's related 61 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 7: to traffic that goes into the Iranian ports. So this 62 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 7: is slightly different to the way that we are approaching 63 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 7: the transiting the straighter or moose. The way that we 64 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,519 Speaker 7: are working right now is to verify that the strait 65 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 7: it's fully open once the conflict comes to an end, 66 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 7: that they are not hazards like mind, and that the 67 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 7: traffic separation SKIND will continue to operate just the way 68 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 7: that it was doing it before the conflict started. And 69 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 7: for that we already have developed an evacuation plan in 70 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 7: assystems with the industry and those organizations that look after 71 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 7: the seafarters as well as the flagstaps of the ships 72 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 7: that are in the Perssian Gulf. 73 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 2: As you sectary, You and I were messaging earlier while 74 00:03:58,320 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 2: we were on the air. Actually it's one of the 75 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 2: reasons we want to to have you back on. Do 76 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 2: you have many updates on this incident? There may be one. 77 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 2: There may have been two incidents where IERGC fast boats 78 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 2: appear to have approach tankers possibly fired on a British ship. 79 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 2: Now it sounds like the crews and the vessels are safe, 80 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 2: but what can you tell us about that one or 81 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 2: possibly two situations. 82 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 7: The information is quite fluid at present, and we are 83 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 7: working in verifying exactly what's happened. Because of the announcement 84 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 7: this morning, again reverting the openness of the sit foremoose. 85 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 7: So there is information or at least one vessel that 86 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 7: was approached and was fired at, but there's no damage 87 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 7: to the vessels, and thankfully also not a single sea 88 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 7: ferry has been hung. These have also been broadcast to 89 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 7: all the vessels in the regions, so companies and ship 90 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 7: owners continue to be cautious on this. That's the call 91 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 7: that I made yesterday. We need to verify what is happening. 92 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 7: Some vessels continue to turn off the automatic identification systems 93 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 7: in order not to be targeted, and this is why 94 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 7: it takes us a few more time in order to 95 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 7: actually get the correct information. 96 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 5: For my last question, I'm going to actually steal it 97 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 5: from Christina, who's been asking about this over the course 98 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 5: of the morning, But I think you can give us 99 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 5: the concrete information. 100 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 6: On all of this. 101 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 5: You've spoken with us in the past about how many 102 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,679 Speaker 5: seafarers are on these vessels in the Strait, some twenty 103 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 5: thousand in total. How many of them, if any, have 104 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 5: been able to get off of those vessels during the 105 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 5: course of this conflictor, if they've been effectively stuck on 106 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 5: those ships over the course of these last seven or 107 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 5: eight weeks, a. 108 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 7: Handful of sua feres have actually transit. If we looked 109 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 7: into the movements and when some of them use the 110 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 7: corridor that the Islamic Republic of Iran introduced, we saw 111 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 7: that there would at least sort of eight or ten 112 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 7: vessels that at any given time transit yesterday. We're now 113 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 7: verifying the few vessels that managed to sail through the 114 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 7: sort of foremost when the information was sent out about 115 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 7: the openings of it. We still have a large number 116 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 7: of sea fares. Just because a handful of vessel have 117 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 7: trans it doesn't mean that we have gone down from 118 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 7: twenty thousand to a more significant reduced number. So the 119 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 7: focus remains on roughly that number. Next early next week 120 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 7: we will have more information on what is the dating 121 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 7: relation to the seafed strap there. But I can tell 122 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 7: you one thing. If it's one seafed strap in the 123 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 7: sweat of or moves, that's one too many. 124 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 5: Mister Secretary General, thank you very much for joining us 125 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 5: on this Saturday morning. That's Er Senio de Benguez, the 126 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 5: Secretary General of the International Maritime Organization. 127 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, sir. All right, joining US now 128 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 2: our former Deputy Assistant Secretary for Iraq and Iran under 129 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 2: President Trump, Andrew Peak, and former acting Principal Deputy Assistant 130 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 2: Secretary for the Bureau of Near East Affairs under President Biden, 131 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 2: Jen Givido. This is our two favorite dass as we 132 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 2: say over at the State Department, We're very happy to 133 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 2: have you both back. Dave, do you want to kick 134 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 2: it off? 135 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, John, let me start with you and just get 136 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 5: a sense from you of how you're navigating the dueling 137 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 5: messaging that we're getting from the Iranian officials and from 138 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 5: US officials, principally President Trump about the situation in the Strait. 139 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 5: Who are you looking to or listening to for clarity 140 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:57,799 Speaker 5: amidst all of this confusion. 141 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 8: At this point, looking for kind of top line indicators 142 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 8: of what direction these talks are headed. I think that 143 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 8: your previous guests mentioned caution and fluidity, and I think 144 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 8: that's exactly right. Both parties are positioning in advance of 145 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 8: what are expected to be a renewed round of talks, 146 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,239 Speaker 8: and I think you know, it's always important to remember 147 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 8: that nothing is agreed to, and until everything is agreed 148 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 8: to with regard to the Straits, specifically, this has been 149 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 8: a really important reminder that regardless of what President Trump 150 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 8: says or what Iran does in the immediate term, the 151 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,119 Speaker 8: long term impact of this is that Iran can close 152 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 8: the strait of horror moves any time at once in 153 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 8: the future. That is a very disruptive and disconcerting tool 154 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 8: that it now has exercised over the course of the 155 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 8: last month that won't necessarily be fully resolved regardless of 156 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:50,119 Speaker 8: how this conflict ends. 157 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 2: Andrew, I want to pick up on that because I 158 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 2: was going to ask you, you know, for all this 159 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 2: weaponry and munitions and lives loss, and as we were 160 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 2: just talking about tanker stuck and I'm a cardship, the 161 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 2: US is really not any different in a different place 162 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 2: than it was before they pulled out of the JCPOA 163 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 2: the first time. I was going to ask you what 164 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 2: was different the second time around, except for it seems 165 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 2: to me that Iran might be more willing to give 166 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 2: up its nuclear program to please the US, knowing that 167 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 2: it's real card it has to play now is closing 168 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 2: the straight What is your take on that. 169 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 9: I think that's right. I also think importantly the geopolitical 170 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 9: situation for Iran is much worse today than it was 171 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 9: back in twenty eighteen when we got out of the 172 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 9: Iran nuclear deal. I mean, remember, the reasons we got 173 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 9: out of the JCPOA was not just the perceived holes 174 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 9: in the nuclear piece, but also the effect that it 175 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 9: would have on Iran's supportive proxies and it's development of 176 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 9: ballistic missiles. It would make it tougher to sanction Iran 177 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 9: for a variety of reasons if we stayed in the deal. Now, 178 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 9: since then, you've had bashar Asad fall, You've had Hezbola 179 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 9: take a tremendous beating from the Israelis, and Lebanon, you've 180 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 9: had Hamas take a tremendous beating. All so you've at 181 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 9: midnight hammer Iran is in a worse place today, and 182 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 9: so I think it actually could make more sense focusing 183 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 9: specifically on the nuclear issue. And I'm not surprised there's 184 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 9: parts of the Iranian government that are willing to deal 185 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 9: just on that piece. 186 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 5: Chuck de Vito, I've heard a colleague here describe what's 187 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 5: happened over these last seven or eight weeks as Iran 188 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 5: exercising a. 189 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 6: New kind of nuclear option. 190 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 5: That is, for many decades they'd talked about and planned 191 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 5: for closing off this straight to wreak the kind of 192 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 5: economic havoc they have over the last seven or eight weeks. 193 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 5: We saw yesterday in those posts from Preston, Trump adamants 194 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 5: that Iran never do this again or be prevented from 195 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 5: doing this once again. To what degree has Iran learned here? 196 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 5: They have a very powerful tool at their disposal. One, 197 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 5: I mean, we can quibble with this that has the 198 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 5: power to be, if not as destructive as a nuclear weapon, 199 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 5: certainly a very powerful weapon that can disrupt the world economy. 200 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 8: I think that's one hundred percent correct. I still think 201 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 8: that all of the things that Andrew just mentioned will 202 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 8: remain important parts of its external facing policy. It's missile 203 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 8: and drone pro which have not been addressed as far 204 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 8: as I can tell in these current negotiations. The nuclear 205 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 8: we've you know, arguably they have now had motivation to 206 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 8: move towards weaponization, whereas they had not made that decision 207 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 8: in the past. But in the immediate term, what they 208 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 8: can really exercise on a day to day basis and 209 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 8: influence kind of geopolitical direction is, in fact the closure 210 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 8: of global commerce. So I expect that we will continue 211 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 8: to see this kind of back and forth where if 212 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 8: they don't like the direction things are headed, and I 213 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 8: suspect that that's what happened yesterday They announced that the 214 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 8: Strait was open tests to the United States, and the 215 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 8: blockade remained in place, and so they're showing us that 216 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 8: they can close it again. So I do think that 217 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 8: we are likely to see this happen quite a bit 218 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 8: in the future, and that is particularly bad news, in 219 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 8: particular for our golf allies, on whom who relies so 220 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 8: heavily on the street in order to induct virtually all 221 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 8: of the commerce that they do, but particularly with in 222 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 8: regard to the energy sector. 223 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 2: Andrew. One of the things that's complicating well our lives 224 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 2: here as journalists, but also the lives of people trying 225 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 2: to make market predictions and the lives of people just 226 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 2: frankly trying to live their lives is the mixed messaging 227 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 2: we're hearing from Iran and from the White House. The 228 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,079 Speaker 2: President says Iran has agreed to all of these things, 229 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 2: and Iran says, we haven't agreed to any of these things. 230 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 2: And yet that's the backdrop for these talks that as 231 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 2: far as we know, are expected to happen in Pakistan 232 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 2: on Monday. Can you talk to us a little bit 233 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 2: about the format of those talks, why there's no working 234 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 2: group or expertise involvement in them. And if you think 235 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 2: the Pakistanis are being kind of reliable narrators, are they 236 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,559 Speaker 2: telling the Trump administration what Iran is really saying or 237 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 2: are they telling the Trump administration what they think the 238 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:41,959 Speaker 2: Trump administration wants to hear. 239 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 9: That's a very very good question. Certainly, the Pakistanis love 240 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 9: the position they're in. They have their own geopolitical problems 241 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 9: on their border with the Taliban. There was a conflict 242 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 9: with the Taliban kicking off right about the time the 243 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 9: US conflict with Iran was kicking off. The more we 244 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 9: focus on this channel through them, the more US goodwill 245 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 9: and latent support they're going to have in any coming 246 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 9: fight with the Taliban, and also Visa VI India. So, yes, 247 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 9: the Pakistanis want this to continue very much, you know, 248 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 9: in terms of signal versus the noise, at least on 249 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,599 Speaker 9: the Iranian side. I do think there's this there's a 250 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 9: couple of things going on. One is that genuinely the 251 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 9: two set you know, the different parts of the remaining 252 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 9: Iranian regime probably have a tough time talking to each other. 253 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 9: Everyone's concerned about communications. Everyone thinks they've been hacked, so 254 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 9: it's not clear. It's not that easier to get everyone 255 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 9: to clear things. Also, I think it's important to remember, 256 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 9: even under the JCPOA, that the Revolutionary Guards never really 257 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,839 Speaker 9: bought into that. They were basically told to do that 258 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,319 Speaker 9: by the Supreme Leader. That's not something that they were 259 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 9: wildly enthusiastic about. The foreign Supreme Leader basically gave it 260 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 9: to the Foreign Ministry. Hey, Rod, and see if you 261 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 9: can get a deal to alleviate the economy now without 262 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 9: a Supreme leader, or without one who is as old 263 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 9: and sort of set as a hominy, you know, it's 264 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 9: going to be even more challenging to get consensus. 265 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 2: Jen, we've only got about thirty seconds, but I did 266 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 2: want to get your take on that a form of 267 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 2: these talks and the Pakistanis as mediators. 268 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 8: Yeah, I think that they have done an admirable job 269 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 8: of getting us this far. And I do think that 270 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 8: the fact the parties are continuing to talk is a 271 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 8: very positive signal that there is a formula to be found. 272 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 8: What that looks like in the end. Again, I would 273 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 8: exercise caution at this point because, in addition to the 274 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 8: points that Andrew rightly makes, I think also, you know, 275 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 8: this formula is complicated, and so again going back to 276 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 8: nothing is agreed to. Until everything is agreed to, everything 277 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 8: will fall into place. And I do think a Lebanon 278 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 8: remains an important part of this. I agree with that, 279 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 8: and unfortunately are going to have to leave it there. Genivito, 280 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 8: Andrew Peak, thank you both so much for lending your 281 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 8: expertise to us this morning. 282 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 3: Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend. 283 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 10: Right after this, all right, A federal government agency is 284 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 10: reportedly investigating possible insider trading involving big swings in oil 285 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,959 Speaker 10: markets ahead of a major policy announcement by President Trump. 286 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 5: Want of Futures Trading Commission is examined at least two 287 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 5: instances where trading volumes surged right before those announcements were made. 288 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 5: Joining us now is Gary Agains Through, the former chairman 289 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 5: of the CFTC. He also served as the chairman of 290 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 5: the SEC and has a new podcast called Power and Consequences. 291 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 5: It's You and the Nobel Laureate Simon Johnson dealing with 292 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 5: a lot of these issues prediction markets as we want 293 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 5: to talk the most about. But let me ask you 294 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 5: quickly about this story. You helm the agency after the 295 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 5: global financial crisis, there were a lot of raised eyebrows 296 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 5: afterward of this trade came out. 297 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 6: What is your read on what's happening here? 298 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 5: And maybe take us behind the scenes of what the 299 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 5: CFTC might be doing as it looks into this. 300 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 11: One. 301 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 12: The only way that the American public can have confidence 302 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 12: in markets is they think that insiders can't get ahead 303 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 12: of them with material information. 304 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 11: I mean, it's just not fair, right. 305 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 12: But Two, the only way we can have confidence in 306 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 12: our government is that we don't think that somebody in 307 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 12: government or their friends or family are trading ahead of us. 308 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 11: Right. 309 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 12: So those two things are really important. And we knew 310 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 12: that sixteen years ago, after the financial crisis. We were 311 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 12: putting reforms in place, and I was honored to head 312 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 12: this thing called the CFTC, and we were going to Congress. 313 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 12: And I have to tell you a little story about 314 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 12: Eddie Murphy, Okay, the comedian, the comedian, yeah, an actor, 315 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 12: and he had done this movie Trading Place. 316 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 2: So the legendary movie in my household. I never understood 317 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 2: the end of it until like a year ago. But yes, 318 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 2: this is an amazing. 319 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 12: And it's an amazing movie where Eddie Murphy is trading 320 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 12: these things called futures. 321 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 11: It's a contract where. 322 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 6: It's right, the concentrated orange. 323 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 12: There you go, there you go. But do you remember, 324 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 12: Christina what he was trading it on. He was trading 325 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 12: it on and a report from the Department of Agriculture 326 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 12: about the orange crop. 327 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 2: He basically got inside information. 328 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 12: Yes, yeah, So I get to the commodity futures trading permission. 329 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 12: I asked the staff. I said, well, that's illegal, right, 330 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 12: and they go, well, Boss. There was a lot of 331 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 12: mumble mumble and wonderful people. So we went to Congress. 332 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 12: In the midst of all that, we said, we've got 333 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 12: to get something. And I used to say it was 334 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 12: the Eddie Murphy provision. He's got to be illegal. Well 335 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 12: guess what we were successful. Al Frankin, who was in 336 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 12: that movie, was a senator, had a great yuk, great 337 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 12: yucks on a couch in his office. But it's here's 338 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 12: where it is today. It is illegal for a government actor, 339 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 12: somebody who works in the government to pass on information 340 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 12: to somebody and to have that person knowingly or with 341 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 12: reckless disregard of the knowledge trade on that information. Also, 342 00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 12: it's illegal for that government actor. 343 00:16:58,880 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 11: To do it. 344 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 12: So it's both the government actor or somebody passing on. 345 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 11: So it's illegal. 346 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 2: But how do you prosecute it because it can't be 347 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 2: easy because it's not like these trades all have the 348 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 2: person's name on then they go through intermediaries, they go 349 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 2: through trading Dusk talk to us about how the investigation works. 350 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 2: You have to figure out who did it, when they 351 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 2: did it, what information they have, and if it was 352 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 2: public information or not. 353 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 11: It's hard. It's hard. 354 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 12: And I was honored to run federal law enforcement agencies twice, 355 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 12: one in the commodity space, one in the security space. 356 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 12: And so the staff is doing this, not the political pointees, 357 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,479 Speaker 12: but this staff is doing it with a lot of 358 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 12: technology now using artificial intelligence as well, tracking and looking 359 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 12: for patterns, just like you do it Bloomberg, looking for patterns. 360 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 12: Is there a spike in trading three minutes before something 361 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 12: happens like we saw late in March I think was 362 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 12: March twenty third, like you've all reported, we saw again 363 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 12: on April seventh, like various members of the House and 364 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 12: Senate on both sides of the aisle have written Senator Warren, 365 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 12: but others also Center White House and others have written, 366 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 12: And so I would think, yes, the government's going to 367 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 12: investigate these things. But to your point, Christina, it's hard 368 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 12: because it's about pattern recognition and then getting behind that 369 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 12: and saying, well, who actually traded? And even if you 370 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 12: identified David, I'm not saying you did this, But if David, 371 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 12: somebody in your production booth, your control room, and the 372 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 12: one second delay that we have here traded on whatever information, 373 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 12: even in that one second, they might be trading on 374 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 12: material non public information. 375 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 11: I'm not saying they all know. 376 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 6: Of course, not right. We'll follow up after it. 377 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 2: If they don't show up for their shift, we'll know 378 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 2: something's happened. But so far our team is all still here. 379 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 11: Is that right? 380 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 13: Right? 381 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 12: But then what happens if all those government actors show 382 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 12: up for their shifts. They're in a situation room. Maybe 383 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 12: they're handling President Trump's tweet? Yeah, or are they call 384 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 12: it x now our truth Social Yes? Right, So that's important. Look, 385 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 12: I think also Congress is looking at whether to ban 386 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 12: certain contracts prediction markets. 387 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,880 Speaker 6: Think about it, well, let me use that as a segue. 388 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 5: We had Melyssaslockin on the show talking about a band 389 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 5: that she's suggesting to be put in place for government 390 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 5: official they shouldn't be able to make bets staffs, And in 391 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 5: that interview it was kind of clear that there was 392 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 5: some ambiguity surrounding who's regulating these spaces. So as we 393 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 5: talk about prediction markets and you want a recent podcast 394 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 5: episode point out people. 395 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 6: Em betting on things for centuries. I'm betting on the Pope, 396 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 6: who's not going to be back in fifteenth century? Whatever? 397 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 6: Is it well regulated? 398 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 5: When we look at Calshi, which is domicile here in 399 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 5: the United States, polymarkets is not its overseas and subject 400 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 5: to less regulation. Is there that an adequate regulator apparatus 401 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 5: surrounding all of this right now? 402 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 12: I think that collectively people will probably agree no, no, 403 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 12: right now, no. 404 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 11: One. You're right Americans. 405 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 12: Humans have been betting on things since antiquity, but how 406 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 12: it's regulated, and at least in sports betting, we've done 407 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 12: that at the state level, and I worked on that 408 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 12: reform back in twenty ten. I don't remember a single 409 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 12: member of Congress, a single senator, House member saying, oh, 410 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 12: we're going to give you your little agency, Gensler, We're 411 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 12: going to give you authority to regulate all this gaming. 412 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 2: And this also isn't a really pro regulatory environment right now. 413 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 2: That's just not where the wins of federal government seem 414 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 2: to be. 415 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 11: No. 416 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 12: No, but I can tell you this, the majority leader 417 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 12: at the time, Senator Harry Reid, would have never voted 418 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 12: for something to basically preempt Nevada gaming. 419 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 11: Them commission no it. 420 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 12: So it's rather absurd to think that's what Congress meant 421 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 12: to do. Now the courts that will play out, that's 422 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 12: about sports betting. You have these geopolitical events. And we 423 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 12: did work with Congress at the time to have a 424 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 12: prohibition put in place on any contracts on assassination, war, terrorism, gaming, 425 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 12: and otherwise unlawful acts. And that was something that they 426 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 12: gave to the CFGC that we could prohibit. I thought 427 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 12: we voted on that. I remember voting on that. It 428 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 12: was a rule forty one to one, I think, and 429 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 12: so I thought we. 430 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 11: Voted on settled. 431 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 12: Well, sometimes in life, things that you think are settled 432 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 12: aren't settled. 433 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 6: Spoken as a true lawyer, no, I'm not a lawyer. 434 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 12: I'm a market's guy, but I would say this. I 435 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 12: think the prediction markets some things we might just say 436 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 12: as a society, we're going to ban. And you talked 437 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 12: about the pope in fifteen ninety one, Gregory the fourteen 438 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 12: said no, no betting on papal conclaves are. 439 00:21:59,400 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 6: Off the table. 440 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 11: That's just off the table. 441 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 12: But guess what in that reform effort in twenty ten, 442 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 12: Congress said we can't bet on movie that's right, that's 443 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 12: right on box office receipts. Howard Ludnik was running Canter 444 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 12: Fitzgerald at the time. He's now the Secretary of COMMRESCE. 445 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 12: He came in to us and said, we want to 446 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 12: start a contract on movie futures. What do you think CFTC? 447 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 12: And we looked at it and we voted. It was 448 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 12: a split vote, three to two. We lost one Republican 449 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 12: one Democrat actually, but we voted and we said, there's 450 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 12: an economic purpose here. You're hedging some risk the movie industry. 451 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 12: Hollywood reacted negatively and they had a vehicle this reform 452 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 12: thing going through. Senator Patrick Leahey from Vermont took that side, 453 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 12: got an amendment in that is illegal. You cannot bet 454 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,479 Speaker 12: on movie futures in this country. Nor can you bet 455 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 12: on onions. And that was Gerald Ford in the nineteen fifties. 456 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 2: Okay, so we can't bet on movie futures or I 457 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 2: but we can watch one percent. I covered DC for 458 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 2: seventeen years. But you can now bet on going to war. 459 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,199 Speaker 2: You can bet on all these real huge outcomes. 460 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 12: But not on assassination, war or terrorism. I thought I 461 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 12: voted on that sixteen years ago. 462 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 2: But I mean, talk to us about the larger picture 463 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 2: of this, because we're in an era of so much 464 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 2: data and commoditization, and you were finding everything down to 465 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,640 Speaker 2: the numbers. I do worry, and I'm not a very 466 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 2: touchy feely person, but I do worry about what it 467 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 2: does to us when you are marketizing things like acts 468 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 2: of war and people dying in conflicts and these huge 469 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 2: geopolitical events. 470 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 6: Which could have economic consequences. I should end of course. 471 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 11: Of course, absolutely absolutely. 472 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 12: And there's day trading, and people who watch this show 473 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 12: know that people can trade on options that are expiring 474 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 12: the same day, and we try to allow the retail 475 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 12: public and the big institutions to trade and meet in 476 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 12: those markets, or even to buy and sell and speculate 477 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 12: on the price of oil if it's well regulated, and 478 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 12: we goard against insider trading and the like. But then 479 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 12: there's some things that you would say, really, do they 480 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 12: have economic consequences? 481 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 11: Do we want to have that? 482 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 12: Why we banned onions in the nineteen fifties and why 483 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 12: we ban movie futures in the twenty ten But assassination 484 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 12: wore terrorism death contracts like even in eighteenth century England, 485 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 12: and this was a real problem at Lloyd's of London's, 486 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 12: which was out of a coffee shop. King George the 487 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 12: Second in the seventeen forties had to deal with his 488 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 12: noble lords say hey, we're losing too many times to 489 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 12: the pirates. Can we ban betting on ships going down? 490 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,199 Speaker 12: They use different words admiralty insurance. You have to have 491 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 12: an insurable interest in the ship. So maybe you have 492 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 12: to have an insurable interest to have terrorismage. 493 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 6: We have got a minute left here, Where do you 494 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 6: see this? How do you see this developing? 495 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 13: Here? 496 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 6: Over the next here ground swooll of public interest and 497 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 6: leads to. 498 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 12: What it's a challenge. I think that this administration will 499 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,199 Speaker 12: try to do their best to push out insider trading, 500 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 12: and that's because they have an interest in promoting this 501 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 12: to the courts will play out. I don't think it 502 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 12: was Congress's intent to preempt state gaming laws, but this 503 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 12: administration wants to take that on and have a little 504 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 12: agency of five hundred people be a national gaming regulator, 505 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 12: I think, and then I think Congress. I hope Congress 506 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 12: takes up some prohibitions on certain death in assassination contracts. 507 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 2: All right, on that cheerful note, we're going to have 508 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 2: to leave with Eric ry Ginzler. Thank you so much 509 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 2: for coming in. Stay with us for more on Bloomberg 510 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 2: this weekend. Right after this, private credit has been in 511 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 2: the spotlight as concerns of software portfolios are vulnerable to 512 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 2: AI disruption begin to mount, Major. 513 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 5: Banks saying it's not a systemic crisis in the making, 514 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 5: but Wall Street closely monitoring private credit portfolios with the 515 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 5: global financial crisis in the rear view mirror, of course, 516 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 5: Joining us now Bluebert TV anchor Danny Berger once again, 517 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 5: and Puck founding partner Bill Cohen. Bill, let me start 518 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 5: with you always get to gauge your level of warriness 519 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 5: worried mos about something like this? Are you seeing these 520 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 5: restrictions on withdrawals and likes and feeling like something is 521 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 5: on the horizon, here's something worth us noting. 522 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 14: Well, David, maybe I'm like the boy who cried wolf 523 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 14: a few times. But we are overdue, shall we say, 524 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 14: for some sort of financial correction, right, Usually, you know, 525 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 14: as a Wall Street historian, usually these things happen once 526 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 14: every twenty years or so. So it's been eighteen years, right, 527 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 14: so we're probably due for something. So that feels like 528 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 14: maybe something is imminent. But I don't think this private 529 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 14: credit is gonna be the catalyst. I think this is 530 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 14: a big overreaction. Frankly, I can elaborate, please, Okay, yeah, 531 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 14: So I mean, let's let's think about this. If we're 532 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,919 Speaker 14: really like, if you create a fund and you say 533 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 14: people can only take out five percent of their money, 534 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 14: you know, every quarter, and you're a retail investor, and 535 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 14: people start making noises about being worried about software credit 536 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 14: or something like that, and your broker says, well, maybe 537 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 14: you really should think about taking money out. Of course, 538 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 14: you're going to take money out and ask questions later. 539 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 14: So everybody floes to that, and then it becomes headlines 540 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 14: that you know, more than five percent people are seeking 541 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 14: redemptions and everybody's starting freaking out and it's contagious. 542 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 6: But what are we talking about here. 543 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 14: We're talking about basically ninety seven percent of the securities 544 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 14: in these funds or private credit generally is senior secured debt. Okay, 545 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 14: senior secured debt, top of the food chain. If we 546 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 14: want to be worried, we should be worried about the 547 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 14: equity down at the bottom of these companies, or these 548 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 14: leverage buyouts or whatever these credits are. Nobody seems to 549 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 14: be talking about if they're concerned about the equity. Once 550 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 14: you if you're going to be worried, let's worry about 551 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 14: the equity holders, and then maybe down the road we 552 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:25,919 Speaker 14: can worry about the senior time secured. 553 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 2: As a millennial, I'm more worried about another financial crisis. 554 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 3: Thanks for that. 555 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 2: But Danny, you were nodding when he was saying equity. 556 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 2: Talk to us about why that's. 557 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 15: A concerned I mean, this is all I have to say. 558 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 15: I've heard this argument a lot, and I think it 559 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 15: makes complete sense. Just given where the capital stack exists, 560 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 15: where credit exists that's going to get paid out. First, 561 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 15: you have to worry about the equity if a loan 562 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 15: is going to zero. It's something that I say, Blue 563 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 15: Wowel makes the argument of quite frequently, and it's completely fair. Also, 564 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 15: if you're in a credit cycle, what's happening to the 565 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 15: equity market, what's happening to public equities? If you're in 566 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 15: the middle of a credit cycle, So it's not just 567 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 15: private credit. And I think it is important to contextualize 568 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 15: how big this union versus it's just under true trillion 569 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 15: dollars the BBC. These retail funds are even a smaller 570 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 15: amount of it, and most of these funds date them 571 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 15: at five percent, so only five percent of those even 572 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 15: smaller funds are coming out. It's something that John Zito 573 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 15: from Apollo has said, if you can't meet these redemptions, 574 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 15: I think he said something along the lines of like 575 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 15: you're a fool, not exactly that, but basically saying they 576 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 15: amount to a rounding error for us the amount of 577 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 15: money that's being pulled out. Look, that doesn't mean that 578 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 15: there aren't issues, especially for specific funds that have essentially 579 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 15: built themselves around these being the profit drivers for them 580 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 15: or the future drivers of growth. But it's not necessarily systemic. 581 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 5: You'll giving us this hypothetical, the retail investor calling the 582 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 5: broker and getting nervous. I think a lot of people 583 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 5: seized on Jamie Diamond's kind of markets etymology a few 584 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 5: entomology excuse me a few months back when he talked 585 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 5: about cockroaches. I mean, it's something very vivid that a 586 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 5: lot of people seized on. Again, you've been tracking bankernings 587 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 5: over the course of the week. What have bank executives 588 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 5: said about what is effectively one of their rivals. I mean, 589 00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 5: they are taking business away from some of these major backs. 590 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 15: I don't know if you've got this, but it felt 591 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 15: kind of like a pullback from Jamie Diamond. He wasn't 592 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 15: as forceful when he talked. He didn't bring up cockroaches 593 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 15: or anything like that, and in fact said that if 594 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 15: we have some sort of crisis, I don't think that 595 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 15: private credit is going to be the thing that causes it. 596 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 15: And by the way, any ruptures in the business, to 597 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 15: your point, is good for these banks. I mean they 598 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 15: do have exposure. JPMorgan has about fifty billion dollars which 599 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 15: which they laid out. But broadly, syndicate markets get a 600 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 15: little bit more popular when you start to see pullbacks 601 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 15: on private credit. You have started to see there was 602 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 15: really intense competition. It still exists, but it feels like 603 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 15: it's ended a bit. 604 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 2: So go ahead. 605 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 14: What are we really talking about here. We're talking about 606 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 14: loans that banks have been making for generations, for millennium. 607 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 14: So Jamie Diamond is like one of the biggest lenders 608 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 14: that there is. So he's in the private credit business. Yes, 609 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 14: because after Dodd Frank, after the two thousand and eight 610 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 14: financial crisis, you know, Gary Gensler and his fellow regulators, 611 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 14: you know, wanted to push a that kind of business 612 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 14: off the books of the central banks, the big banks 613 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 14: on Wall Street. They became in the moving business, not 614 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 14: in the storage business. So what happened around all of that, 615 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 14: Around all that new regulation upcomes you know, the Apollos, 616 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 14: the Blackstones, the kkrs, the Blue Owls, you know, all 617 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 14: of them who are the sort of private credit leaders. 618 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 14: And by the way that business took off, they all 619 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 14: used to be just private equity guys. Now all of 620 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 14: a sudden, they're private credit guys or their alternative astent 621 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 14: management guys. They're all in the same business, they're all 622 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 14: doing the same thing, and they're all sort of filling 623 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 14: the hole that was left by when ge Capitol went 624 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 14: out of that business in twenty fifteen. So they're all 625 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 14: making loans to you know, inventory finance or mobile home 626 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 14: finance or things that basically nobody really wants to do. 627 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 14: But they're senior secured at the top of the credit structure. 628 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 14: And so what are we really worried about here? Yes, 629 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 14: it's great headlines and it's fun to see people take 630 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 14: want more than five percent of their money out when 631 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 14: you know they can only take five percent, they want 632 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 14: seven and a half percent. What do we do? Do 633 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 14: we put more money in or do we get them? 634 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 14: What do we do? So it's an event. 635 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 2: But all right, we've got about two minutes left. I'm 636 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 2: gonna start with you. Well, then I want to go Anny. 637 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 2: If we're not worried about private credit, what are we 638 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 2: worried about? 639 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 15: What is question? 640 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 2: You know that what is keeping you up at night? 641 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 14: Well, I mean again, I think human nature is such that, 642 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 14: you know, people forget. 643 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 2: The last short memories, short memories. 644 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 14: So I'm you know, I'm worried about I'm worried about 645 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 14: the excess valuation, the toppiness to the valuations. I mean, 646 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 14: you know the AI, I mean we all tell you about. 647 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 14: I mean, AI is probably credit, but but you know, 648 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 14: valuing these things at infinite multiples of earnings, I mean, 649 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 14: it's it's bound to come down, but shortening them is 650 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 14: a very dangerous game too. 651 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 15: I'm I'm worried kind of on the existential AI thing 652 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 15: and what it means for our labor markets. I know 653 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 15: that's completely like feels non sequitor, but what we're talking about, 654 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 15: to be fair, it is part of the ruptures we've 655 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 15: seen in private credit. We've seen kind of trickling in 656 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 15: companies talking about layoffs because of AI. It could be 657 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 15: a little bit of AI theater. But are politicians prepared 658 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 15: for this? We've seen backlashing communities about building data centers, which, 659 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 15: by the way, private credit that's been a huge business 660 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 15: for them. I feel like we're moving towards something and 661 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 15: we haven't fully thought out what that endgame looks like 662 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 15: from politicians, regulators, and even capital markets and valuations. I 663 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 15: feel like we're kind of putting the plane together as 664 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 15: we're flying, and that worries me a bit. 665 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 14: And no one rings a bell at the top of 666 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 14: the market now, and no one very rarely can you 667 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 14: anticipate the crisis that's going to occur until it occurs. 668 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 4: Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend. 669 00:33:47,800 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 2: Right after this, welcome back to Bloomberg this weekend, it 670 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 2: is time for BT dubs, or as David post BTW 671 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 2: insisting on the on the full pronunciation. Some of the 672 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:10,800 Speaker 2: stories you might have missed this week, at least the 673 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 2: what she got for us. 674 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 4: Okay, so a few weekends ago, we did this story 675 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,919 Speaker 4: for BTW about a Boston Globe reporter with Emily Sweeney. Yes, 676 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,839 Speaker 4: she was posting her stories to their Instagram, to their 677 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 4: TikTok things like that. They were interesting. She does like 678 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 4: cold cases, things like that. But what people started taking 679 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 4: notice is of her Boston accent and the tracksuit she 680 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 4: was wearing. 681 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 6: So we have some sound for you that went viral. 682 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 4: Take a listen. 683 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 13: Several valuables were stolen, including a Porsche that was used 684 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 13: to escape from the property. The ka has since been recovered, 685 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 13: but the suspect remains at large. The caretaker, who was 686 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,320 Speaker 13: tied up, managed to escape and go to a navy's 687 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:45,959 Speaker 13: house for help. 688 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 3: Love that. 689 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,280 Speaker 4: Okay, So the New York Times now they did an article. 690 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 4: Here's the headline, why is everyone wicked obsessed with this 691 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 4: Boston Globe reporter? 692 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 3: We love this. 693 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 4: What we did, we figured out, you know what, and 694 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,800 Speaker 4: we could obsessed with her, so reached out and Emily 695 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 4: Sweeney is now going to join us live from Boston. Yes, 696 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 4: Emily Sweeney, how are you this morning? Glad you can 697 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,239 Speaker 4: join us? I mean, what was your reaction when you 698 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 4: found out your video went viral? 699 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 13: Yeah, you know, it was a total surprise, And I 700 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 13: want to thank you because you know, I listened. 701 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 6: To Bloomberg like, all, oh, thank you. 702 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 13: I'm kind of fangirl in here at big Time because 703 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 13: you know, I like, seriously, like you guys are like 704 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 13: superstars to me, so I really appreciate. 705 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 6: I love this. 706 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 13: But yeah, all the attention was totally unexpected, you. 707 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 2: Know, because you've been doing these for a while, right, 708 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:39,839 Speaker 2: That's like, wasn't your first one? 709 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 11: Yeah? 710 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 13: Yeah, no, I do videos for the Globe like news reports, 711 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 13: just like all the other reporters in the newsroom, you know, 712 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 13: and you know, my my accent is a little bit 713 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 13: hotter than some of the others because I grew up 714 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 13: in Boston, you know what I mean. So I was 715 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 13: really shocked. But the thing is is like, you know, 716 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 13: what really shocked me more is like just how positive 717 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 13: everybody's feedback has been, you know. So it's been kind 718 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 13: of restored my faith in, like in media just to 719 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 13: hear it so many people like interested in the news 720 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 13: and writing to me, you know. 721 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 2: So it was the contents, I mean, I saw it 722 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 2: before we even started talking about in the newsroom and 723 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:15,760 Speaker 2: then it just kind of girn group. But the comments 724 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 2: were really awesome, and one of them was like, I 725 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 2: want Emily Sweeney to be the only one allowed me 726 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 2: to read the news to me, like an Emily Sweeney 727 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 2: narrate the iliad, like Emily Sweeney's voice in my. 728 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 6: Head all the time. 729 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 2: It was, it was, it was great. 730 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 4: He's everywhere. 731 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, for me to be 732 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,280 Speaker 13: the only one reading the news, I think that's slightly extreme. 733 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 13: But but you know, it has been hottening to hear 734 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,719 Speaker 13: that people are still interested in the news because, you know, 735 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 13: for a long time, I don't know, you know, working 736 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 13: at a legacy media organization, you know, it's been had 737 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 13: you guys know, and you know, it's been great to 738 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 13: see just like this sudden interest in journalism again. That's 739 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 13: it means a lot to me. 740 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 6: Tell us about how you got into journalism. 741 00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 5: So I detect the Dorchester acts, I'm gonna go micro 742 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 5: And I think that I pointed that correctly. How did 743 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,840 Speaker 5: you get into journalism? And what if you covered at 744 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 5: the Globe? So you're doing this true crime report? Now 745 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 5: you've written books as well? How did you get into that? 746 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:11,479 Speaker 3: Yeah? 747 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 13: Yeah, So I've written three books, two of them about 748 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 13: organized crime. I write a lot about unsolved murders. I 749 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:20,400 Speaker 13: feel like a lot of people aren't aware of like 750 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,239 Speaker 13: how many unsolved homicides there are, and you know, I 751 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,760 Speaker 13: think it's really important to draw awareness to the cases 752 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 13: because sometimes it can help them get solved. So I 753 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,760 Speaker 13: do a lot of cold case reporting for the Globe. 754 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,720 Speaker 13: And now I've been doing a lot of video lately, 755 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 13: you know, because we've just been getting like a lot 756 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,399 Speaker 13: of like great engagement from the our audience and it's 757 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 13: growing and we're gonna roll with that. And you know, 758 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 13: I'm gonna make videos until they tell me no. 759 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 6: We speaking a roll. 760 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:51,400 Speaker 4: And you've been on roller blades, yeah like that. I mean, like, 761 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,720 Speaker 4: talk to me about the Boston accent, because it's different 762 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 4: from different regions where you are correct. 763 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,800 Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, I mean if you drill down, different neighborhoods 764 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 13: have different accents. You know, are from Dorchester, which is 765 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 13: like the biggest neighborhood in Boston. And you know how 766 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 13: I talk like, I sound well to me, I sound 767 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 13: totally normal, like you know what I mean like, and 768 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 13: how my mother my brother has like an even stronger accents. 769 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 15: Stronger than that. 770 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 13: Yeah, And so again it was just a surprise to see, like, 771 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 13: you know, everybody thought, like in that news report that 772 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 13: I was saying, I don't know, I'm like, I thought 773 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 13: it was just talking regular. 774 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 11: What accent I look. 775 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 2: I think as we talked about it in a time 776 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 2: when journalism is struggling to find its audience and find 777 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,319 Speaker 2: its feet, two things that stood out to me. One 778 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 2: was you just came approach as really genuine and authentic. 779 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 2: You came upon just someone who was being yourself. You 780 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 2: didn't change out of your tracksuit, you weren't putting on airs. 781 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:44,839 Speaker 2: You were like, here's my story, here's what we got, 782 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,320 Speaker 2: here's what we talk about. Talk to us about how 783 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 2: you guys are reaching a new audience with social media, 784 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 2: especially reaching it working the legacy paper do you feel 785 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 2: like you're making more of an impact and what that 786 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 2: process is like. 787 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 13: Yeah, so, I mean absolutely, because you know, I definitely 788 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 13: have gotten so many messages from number one, younger people 789 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 13: you know who I mean, I'm not sure would even like, 790 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 13: you know, watch the news or you know, pick up 791 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,760 Speaker 13: a newspaper or you know what I mean. And also 792 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 13: people from it's kind of strange, like all over the 793 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:20,280 Speaker 13: world like Australia, Ireland, Guam. I mean, people are writing 794 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 13: saying I'm following the Boston News like, so, you know, 795 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 13: I just think it's great to draw attention to the 796 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 13: great journalism the Globe is doing, and it's great that 797 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 13: people are just even interested in news again, I feel 798 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 13: like just in general and like asking for headlines like 799 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 13: you know, you didn't do the headlines today? 800 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:38,279 Speaker 8: Where are they? 801 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 9: Like? 802 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 13: You know, it's it's been really great to see so well. 803 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 2: We've enjoyed the heck out of it. We got duncan here. 804 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 6: What's your order? We should have asked advance, I realize, you. 805 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,239 Speaker 13: Know, I mean I usually go like extra lodge coffee, 806 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 13: you know, just black ice. 807 00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 2: You know what I mean, don't donut you got a donut? 808 00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,240 Speaker 13: You know, I ate so many jelly donuts from dunks 809 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 13: that I have to put I'm on hiatus. 810 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, I also don't think those we're too good. We're 811 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 2: already trying not to spill coffee on ourselves. 812 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 6: But Emily, thank you very much. 813 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,400 Speaker 5: Emily Sweet, reporter for the Boston Globe, joining us fangirl 814 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 5: for Boston ninety nine. Get that shout out in there, 815 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:21,879 Speaker 5: and we'd love to have you back on any time. 816 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 2: Coming Emily and the Boston Globe because it's great news 817 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 2: and great content. Thanks for joining us on today's Bloomberg 818 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,840 Speaker 2: This Weekend podcast. Don't forget to tune in live for 819 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 2: the show every Saturday and Sunday morning, starting at seven 820 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:37,240 Speaker 2: am Eastern. 821 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,320 Speaker 3: We're on Bloomberg Television Radio and the Bloomberg Business App, 822 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:44,560 Speaker 3: bringing you unique takes and in depth interviews on news, politics, lifestyle, 823 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 3: and culture.