WEBVTT - Thomas Buberl 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:05.000 Thomas Bubel is a CEO of Accent, one of the 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:07.800 world's largest insurance companies. I recently had a chance to 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:10.040 sit down with him to talk about the risk facing 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:14.560 global insurance, particularly relating to war and climate change. Explain 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.040 to people who aren't familiar with life insurance or health 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:20.840 insurance or any kind of insurance, what is the main business. 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:24.040 It's the underwrite, what the risk is, make a profit 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:26.720 presumably on the premiums you charge, and then take those 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:29.360 premiums and invest it and do well on the investment 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:29.680 as well. 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:30.280 Is that right? 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:30.760 Yes? 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:32.599 And plus we have to pay claims as well, So 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:35.360 we receive at the beginning of the year a premium, 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:38.200 we invest the premium, and then when the claim happened, 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:41.320 we have to then pay it out. And all of 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:45.519 that should be managed in a way that we protect 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:48.640 the number of people that we ensure and also make 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:49.120 a profit. 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:52.800 So on the premium that you charge. The underwriting risk 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:55.280 is very complicated. You have to assess what the risk 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.320 is that somebody will live or die or get an illness, 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.040 or a property will be damaged. Do you try to 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:03.440 make money on the underwriting or you try to break 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:04.040 even on that? 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:06.360 No, we have to make money on the underwriting because 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:08.960 obviously there's capital that needs to be put behind that business, 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:11.640 and also we have shareholders that want to return. So 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:14.160 what we basically look at we have a lot of 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:18.080 historic data that we can use to price a building 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:21.039 and then make sure that over the duration of a 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:27.600 contract we make sufficient money to remunerate our shareholders and 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:28.640 get remuneration. 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:28.720 For the risk. 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:30.760 What type of return do you try to get on 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:33.039 your investments? And do you have thousands of people to 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:35.160 invest the money and who does the investing? 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.399 So what we do is we are not speculators. We 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:40.840 very much look at what are our liabilities, and so 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:44.240 we invest in terms of duration exactly in the same 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:47.320 way that we would expect the liabilities to come, and 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:51.280 we mostly hold our assets to maturity. And therefore it 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:55.040 really depends what the liability looks like. This determines the 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:59.480 return you need, and the longer the liability, the higher 0:01:59.480 --> 0:01:59.919 the return. 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:03.360 Now, Warren Buffett famously bought some life insurance. So I 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.560 guess reinsurance companies years ago. You bought General Ree and 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:08.880 he takes the premiums and he invested in and he 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:11.880 very good investor. Is that a model you use, which 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:14.359 is to go get really good investors that you give 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:16.000 money to and tell them to get a higher rate 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:17.560 of return than you would normally get if you're doing 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:18.239 it yourself. 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:21.160 Yes, I mean, we obviously need to split our assets 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:24.560 across many, many asset managers to make sure that we 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:27.400 have a high degree of diversification. We have a fullse 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:30.480 area of business which is the investment management. So we 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:34.440 have ACCE Investment Managers that has around seven hundred billion 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:37.800 of assets and we obviously invest a lot through them, 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:42.120 but we certainly also do a lot with external asset 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:45.559 managers to make sure that we play the market. 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:46.720 But also optimized it. 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:49.720 So in an era when we have high inflation, high 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:52.280 interest rates, what kind of rate of return do you 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:54.640 need to get to kind of be comfortable. You need 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:57.360 to get a seven, eight, nine, ten percent rate of 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:00.160 return or much higher than that to feel that you're 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:01.880 doing a good job investing the money that you have 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:02.919 from their premiums. 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:06.440 So again it depends on the liability profile. We always 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:10.040 look what is the division of the liability relative. 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:11.320 To how we need to invest. 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:14.560 But it's obviously clear now that in an environment like this, 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:18.000 we need to get much higher return than we used 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:23.360 to in a zero interest rate environment. And therefore the 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:28.600 insurer is a very slow moving investor. So we invest 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:31.239 around ten percent of our balance sheet every year, so 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:34.720 it is not that when market changes we immediately change 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:37.040 everything to change the return pattern. 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:39.400 So if I wanted to go in the insurance business myself, 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:44.040 would you recommend that I go into life insurance, automobile insurance, 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:45.840 health insurance, property. 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:47.040 And casual Which is the best business to go on? 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:47.720 Of those four? 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:51.520 I would say the property and casualty insurance for commercial 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:54.520 business and the health insurance. Why because those are two 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:57.880 business that are growing the most. On the property and 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:02.760 casualty for company, you've got all the new risks supply 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:06.760 chain risk, cyber risk, climate transition risk, and on the 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:10.640 health side the question a more longevity but higher healthth 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:13.520 cost and how can you help people to live a 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:15.720 better life. Those are the two areas I would recommend 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:15.920 to you. 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:18.440 The biggest risk in property and casualty is that now 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:22.160 climate change or climate are kind of things that are 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:25.359 changing the way that the Earth deals with weather and 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:25.880 things like that. 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:30.039 Yeah, so absolutely, when you look at natural catestrophes, the 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:33.400 number of events has significantly increased, and not only the 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:36.240 very big events like hurricanes, but also what we call 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:42.120 secondary parrots, so wildfires, floodings, and drought. And this leads 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:44.560 to the fact that you have far more events and 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:47.960 therefore a much higher cost of all of the natural catestrophes. 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:50.280 How do you really assess the risk of climate change, 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:51.920 because how can you possibly know whether they're going to 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:54.520 be a hurricane or a flood. It's just based on 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:57.159 the past or the projection of the future. How do 0:04:57.200 --> 0:04:57.640 you do that? 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:00.480 So essentially we use data from the past, but as 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:03.080 you say, since the dynamic has changed, we need to 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:05.320 also look forward. And what we do a lot. We 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:09.480 work a lot with scientists who understand what the warming 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:12.599 of the earth and climate change will mean for the 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:15.799 question of taking risk. And secondly, we take much less 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:18.080 risk than we used to take because we have to 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:18.600 be careful. 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:20.920 So let's suppose there are a lot of hurricanes. Is 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:24.039 that good for property and casualty insurance? Or not good 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:26.120 because people say, well, there's going to be more hurricanes, 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:28.240 I al should buy more insurance or not good because 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:29.400 you got to pay a lot of claims. 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:30.320 It depends. 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:34.240 I would say it's good because I mean a it 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:36.440 creates the awareness to do more prevention. 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:37.200 What we see. 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.279 Today is that, as I said earlier, there is more events, 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:44.400 it becomes more and more difficult to ensure, and therefore 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:47.599 we work a lot with our customers around preventions. And 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:51.640 so if you look at the large hurricanes, Hurricane Katrina 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:55.080 and Hurricane Irma, for example, they're about fifteen years apart, 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:59.000 costs have actually come down over time despite inflation. 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:00.960 So prevention does work. 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:03.479 Let's stop talk about another type of insurance, which is 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:06.200 life insurance. Are you better off if people live a 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:08.480 long time so they don't claim their life insurance, or 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:10.159 you're better off that they die sooner. 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:12.440 It always depends. 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:16.960 So dying sooner is mostly better because if people live longer, 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:19.520 you have the longevity risk and you never know how 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:23.000 long people live, but that really depends country by country. 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:29.599 We have certainly made the choice of being relatively cautious 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:32.520 around life insurance. We used to be eighty percent in 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:34.599 life insurance in our whole portfolio. 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:36.520 We are now twenty percent in life insurance. 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:40.440 Because life insurance is very much financial risk, which is 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:45.919 not diversifying. And secondly, it is very much linked to 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:51.280 a high degree of regulation which makes the business very, 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:51.880 very difficult. 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:54.320 Let's talk about health insurance or third type of insurance. 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:56.919 So there's a lot of obesity going on in the 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.960 Western world, a lot of drug abuse in the Western world. 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:02.920 Do you take that into account when you sell health insurance? 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:05.200 Yes, obviously, I mean you have to give you a BMI, 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:09.279 which is then the proxy around the question how it 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:13.360 bees are you or not? But even for example this area, 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:15.800 we are at the beginning of quite a big revolution. 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.840 If you look at all the new drugs like ozembic 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:23.480 and others, they could change the pattern of obesity significantly 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:26.280 going forward, which is actually an exciting journey to go on. 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:29.360 So the United States has a complicated healthcare program. I 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:31.480 don't know how it works in Europe, but is our 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:35.200 program the United States? Some call it Obamacare Affordable Care Act. 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:40.000 Is that program better or worse for health insurance than 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:41.360 whatever you have in Europe? 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:45.920 Both have the same issue, which is a demographic issue. 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:48.000 If you look, for example, in the US, I think 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:53.080 about ten to fifteen years ago, about twenty percent of 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:57.560 the federal budgets and fiscal budgets were related to welfare. 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:00.440 Today we are at thirty nine percent to the fact 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:03.040 that people are getting older. You see exactly the same 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:07.040 pattern in Europe, So the question around public or more 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:10.760 public type health system will come on the table and 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:12.080 new solutions will be needed. 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:16.680 Now, maybe unfairly, but insurance companies have a reputation for saying, well, 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:19.560 we'll show you insurance, but when the claim comes they say, well, 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:22.280 maybe it's not so as much damage as you claim 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:24.800 and they take a long time to pay out. Is 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:28.240 that a fair portrayal of the way some insurance companies 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:29.800 are and how do you deal with that image? 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:33.320 So when I joined the insurance industry in two thousand 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.800 and five, this image was already there, and I would 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:39.800 say at the time it was also justified in a 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:44.319 to a certain degree because we were not enough engaged to. 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:48.080 Work really for the border society. We were still very bureaucratic. 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:51.760 If you're fast forward now twenty almost twenty years forward, 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:55.040 this is not the case anymore. We are extremely engaged 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:58.840 in society. Take the topic of climate change, take the 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:03.120 topic of on socially include and we have significantly changed 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:06.160 the whole customer service. So most of it today is 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:10.920 very digital and it's much easier both in the administration 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:11.959 and the claims management. 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:14.959 So let's talk about your background for a moment. Where 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:16.840 are you from originally? Where were you born? 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:18.040 I was born in Germany. 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:19.200 Where did you go to school? 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:23.199 I went to school near Disseldof in Germany and did 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:25.120 all my childhood in Germany. 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:28.040 And you were a German speaker, I assume yes. Did 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:30.960 you speak French as well? As a young I learned? 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:34.400 I learned French in school. It was my third language. 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:38.199 So I did Latin English and then French. And at 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:40.680 the time I didn't know how valuable it would be 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:41.680 that I learned French. 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:44.199 Now, in the United States, you often hear people saying 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:46.160 I want my little boy to grow up to be 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:50.600 an investor. They wanted to be a doctor or a lawyer. 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:52.800 You never hear people saying, I want my little boy 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.240 to grow up to be an insurance person. So how 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:56.800 did you grow up to be an insurance person? Your 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:58.760 parents tell you to be an insurance world. 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:01.600 No, not at all when I studied. So after I 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:04.840 finished my studies, I wasn't really ready to decide in 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:08.280 which industry I went, and so I went into consulting 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:12.119 to prolong a little bit. The journey and test certain industries. 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:16.040 And so during that consulting time I did amazing projects. 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:18.160 Somewhere in insurance. 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:22.440 Other were in women's underwear, other were in IT distribution. 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:26.400 So I saw very different sectors, and I really liked 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:29.880 the insurance sector at the time because I saw exactly 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:32.640 what you mentioned earlier, that there is an industry that 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:37.640 is deeply rooted in society because we are basically promoting 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:41.840 and ensuring social cohesion. Yet the industry was not recognized 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:45.680 for it. It was that question around a very bureaucratic industry, 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:48.960 and at the time I wanted to make a difference 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:50.559 and wanted to go in there. 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:54.240 So right before you joined the Action, you were working where. 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:55.760 I worked for Boston Consulting. 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:56.080 Okay. 0:10:56.360 --> 0:11:00.000 Then went to winter To Insurance, which was bought by Access. 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:02.320 Second signature I had to give was the NDA of 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:06.880 the AXA deal. Then I went and ran Zoich Insurance 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:11.320 in Switzerland and then back to Accell to run Germany 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:12.439 for Exile. 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:16.920 You've been the CEO since twenty sixteen and the stock 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.559 is up about sixty percent since that time. 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:20.720 I think it's a little more. 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:24.480 I started more than sixty percent sixteen euros and today 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:25.679 it closed at thirty. 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:29.640 One okay, and the market capitalization is up almost an 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:30.320 equivalent amount. 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:32.520 Yeah, exactly, Yeah, we are about seventy one billion dollars. 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:35.680 Now, France is a wonderful country and they have a 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:38.800 lot of great companies. Usually they're headed by people that 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:42.520 are born in France. So how did a German get 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.200 to be the head of a French major company? 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:47.000 You have to ask my board of directors. 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:51.600 Now, essentially, I mean we the board ran a process. 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:54.679 They first looked at extra candidates. They then looked at 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:57.440 internal candidates. We I think if a member correctly, were 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:01.320 seven internal candidates, and then over time the process took 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:04.719 three years, they eliminated and we were just at the 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:08.120 end of the day two left, one French person and me. 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:12.960 And then the board looked at essentially three criteria which 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:16.320 was very much away from nationality. One was track record 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:20.120 within AXA, the other one was what is the value 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:22.560 set of the person? And the third one what is 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.520 the capacity of the person to reinvent him or herself. 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:29.600 So in many cases the large French companies, the largest 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:34.280 ones are run by French people, typically men who have 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:37.080 gone to the so called elit power schools. But you 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:38.800 didn't go to one of those schools. So does that 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.040 mean you're an outsider a bit in the French business 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:43.720 establishment or you've been able to work your way in. 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:46.240 I've been able to work my way in. But that 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:47.520 needed two things. 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:52.040 One the curiosity of the French CEOs in me, but 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:56.280 also my ability to then fully dive into it. And 0:12:56.320 --> 0:13:00.520 so what I did, for example, with my woundimentary French 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.600 knowledge that I had from school and studying, I only 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:05.840 spoke French the whole day to make sure that this 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:10.600 would work, and I integrated myself wherever I could. This 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:13.240 point around the university is actually a very good one, 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:17.480 because in France you compare the very good schools with 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:21.200 less good schools. I was neutral because I came from 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:25.000 a university that nobody knew, so I wasn't placeable in 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:26.280 the hierarchy of universities. 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:29.640 When you're conducting business in the actually headquarters, do you 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:32.160 speak French or do you speak English or German? 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:34.080 Or what I speak? No German. 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.720 And obviously whenever there is a person in the room 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.679 that cannot speak French, we only speak English. 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:42.600 But I still do. 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:44.720 As many of my meetings as I can in French 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:46.920 if it's possible. 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:50.200 And your business is a global business, what is the 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:53.240 biggest place where you have the most people. Is that 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:55.920 France or Europe or United States? 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:56.439 It's Europe. 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:59.160 So essentially we have about twenty percent of the business 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:03.480 in France, forty percent of the business in Europe, twenty 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:05.800 percent in the US, and then twenty percent Asia. 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:09.199 And any interesting growing your business by making an acquisition 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:10.880 or doing something like that. 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:13.640 Yeah, I mean we have done quite a few acquisitions. 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.360 As I said earlier, I started with eighty percent life 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:19.440 insurance and we are now at twenty percent life insurance, 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:22.520 having kept the same revenue, which meant that we had 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:22.800 to do a. 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:23.560 Lot of transactions. 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:27.239 For example, the company you mentioned earlier, Equitable, we ipo'd 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:30.800 in the US. We bought XXL in the US, so 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:34.000 we did transactions probably in the area of about thirty 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:34.800 billion Europe. 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.560 Now, as the CEO of a company does, do the 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:41.080 insurance people come to you and say we have a 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:43.280 big risk here, we're going to underwrite or do they 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:45.360 leave you out of the underwriting business. 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.200 It always depends on what size of us you talk. 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:52.080 Normally they are doing their own business. So we have 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:57.600 a clear grid of competence for underwriting, and about ninety 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:01.000 nine percent of all risks is done in the entities, 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:03.240 and so it should be. But yeah, there are some 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:05.480 risks that come to me where I have to take it. 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:08.760 So let's suppose I'm in business school and I say 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:11.040 I want to go in the business world. Why would 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:12.680 I want to go into the insurance world. 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.560 So interestingly, we actually get quite a few young people 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:19.120 today in the business and when you ask them why 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:22.040 are they in the business, the number one reason they 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:26.160 always say is the purpose of insurance, because insurance companies 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:31.600 do protect individuals, but they also help society to develop, 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:35.200 and so that's the number one driver while people are there. Second, 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:38.640 we have a lot of people that have analytical background, 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:42.360 so people that love data, and obviously our industry is 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:46.920 data rich. With the revolution and wave of AI coming, 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:51.160 we now have the ability to also analyze unstructured data, 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:54.520 which would broaden this much more. And so those are 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:57.120 the two areas why you have a lot of talent 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:58.320 actually coming in our industry. 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:00.760 In the United States, people i'd say, well, you're a 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:04.480 really attractive business person, why don't you go in the government. 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:06.240 You might be a cabinet officer, or something you have 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:08.600 any interest in that or in France you can't quite 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:09.280 do it that way. 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:12.800 So obviously, in our job you have a lot of 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:16.920 links into politics because you know, when you touch sourcial 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:20.239 security systems, when you touch the question around natural catastrophes, 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:24.040 when you're the biggest instruer of satellites, then you always 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:29.040 have ties into government. And obviously part of my job 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:32.120 is also then to be in. 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:33.680 That spare and help where I can. 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.320 Does it entice me to switch over to a political 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:38.760 career The answer is no. 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:42.240 So today, do you have any aspirations to do something 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:44.280 beyond what you're doing. You're not going to go in 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:47.880 the government, you said, go into philanthropy at some point. No. 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:49.800 I mean, look, I've been in my job for eight years. 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:52.600 I have a lot of fun in the job, and 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:54.520 there is also still a lot to be done, so 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:57.360 I will continue on my journey. I will not be 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:01.720 seduced by politics. And when you think about philanthropy, we 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.600 do a lot of philanthropy also in Acceillentle for example, 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:11.080 go running for money that we then donate to charitable institutions. 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:14.119 We do a lot as well on the art site 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:18.040 and helping artists and helping restoration of art in France 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:21.120 and otherwise, so you can do a lot while being 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:21.880 a company CEO. 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:23.600 Okay, let's talk about the economy. 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:28.360 The United States has a situation where we have reasonably 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:31.000 good growth in twenty twenty three over three percent. 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.479 Europe has not grown quite as well. 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:35.320 Why do you think the United States seems to be 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.800 pulling away from the European and Chinese economies in terms 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.719 of our growth? Is it something about the American business 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:44.680 environment that the United States has recovered from COVID maybe 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:48.879 better than Europe did or China did so. 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:51.960 I think it's a couple efectors. Number one is fiscal stimulus. 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:54.840 The fiscal stimulus in the US was much higher than 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:57.439 it was in Europe, and obviously fiscal stimulus leads to 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:02.400 more demand. Secondly, there is a lot of unshoring happening 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:06.440 or reshoring happening from somewhere else into the US, which 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.399 is obviously something that creates growth as well. And then 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.720 certainly when you look at your demography, this is much 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:14.760 healthier than what we have in Europe. 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:18.280 Recently, we've had high interest rates and high inflation. I 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:20.720 assume you've got through that reasonably well. But now we're 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:22.520 going to go into an era where interest rates are 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:24.840 probably going to come down and inflation seems to be 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.719 coming down. How are you going to reposition your company 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:30.320 and deal with that different economic consequence. 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:37.320 Obviously, these changes produce a high volatility of the economic environment, 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:40.480 and certainly we spoke earlier about the geopolitical environment. So 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:45.520 in a highly volatile and highly unpredictable environment, it is 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:49.879 important to take a strategy of low risk. And so 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:52.240 essentially what we have said, we have built now our 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:55.160 platform that is working very well. We are the biggest 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:58.800 insurance now of enterprises across the world. 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:00.560 We are one of the biggest in Europe. 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:03.320 We want to make sure that we scale up this 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:05.160 business more in the next phase. 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:08.640 Do you worry about Russia Ukraine as a potential insurance risk? 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:11.639 I mean, we worry a lot about these risks because 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:15.800 a these risks do create claims, and so the Russia 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:18.840 Ukraine situation did create a lot of claims on the 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:22.320 political risk side, on the marine side, on the aviation side, 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:26.560 and so for us it's important to look out for 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:29.320 them and certainly are to see where the next crisis 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:33.159 come from, because even if the Ukraine Russia crisis was 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:36.320 to be resolved, I'm sure the next crisis coming. Look 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:38.440 at what is happening in the Red Sea now, which 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:44.280