1 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show Ridiculous Historians. Our Halloween streak continues. 2 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: We want to start today's episode by saying this might 3 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 1: not be your favorite show to listen to while you're reading. 4 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: You think that's fair, knol, I mean, I say, do 5 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: what you want, you know. I find this to be 6 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 1: strangely appetizing. I don't know why. I'm a fan of 7 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: trying new things. Have you ever eaten human meat? Uh? 8 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: Not knowingly? But there's some interesting things we will discover 9 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: about cannibalism along the way today. My name is Ben. 10 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,959 Speaker 1: Let's hear a shout out for our guest super producer. 11 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: Returning guest super producer Paul Deckett. Wow, that's great a 12 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: delayed reaction. So, Paul, have you ever read human meat? 13 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: Paul is shaking his head vehemently. Well, this is interesting too, 14 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: because does it count as auto cannibalism if you ever 15 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: chewed your fingernails? Oh? Come, now, that seems like a 16 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: semantic rabbit hole. There it is. It is a bit 17 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: of one. But we are I don't know, like, we've 18 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: both eaten some pretty weird, interesting, unique things. But you 19 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: have never knowingly consumed man flesh. I have not, But 20 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: as as we learn um for hundreds of years, it 21 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: was not just a thing that people occasionally did. It 22 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: was considered something healthy, right, it was. And I think 23 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: this conversation today is twofold. It's about it's about the 24 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: power of belief, the placebo effect. You know. I was 25 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: having a really interesting conversation with my dear friend Frank 26 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: yesterday about how so many things boiled down to the 27 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: placebo effect. If we can convince ourselves that something is efficacious, 28 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: whether spiritually, whether mentally, you know, mentally psychologically, then it's 29 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: it's a way of kind of like actively tricking your 30 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: mind into making you feel a certain way. And so 31 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: many of these things we're gonna talking about today were 32 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: like blood. If you drink the blood of a healthy person, 33 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: it will make your blood better, right, this kind of 34 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: sympathetic magic almost through this magical thinking. The thing that's 35 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: fascinating about the placebo effect is it does have measurable, 36 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:51,959 Speaker 1: quantifiable results. People can physically improve certain medical conditions based 37 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: on the power of belief alone. And at the time 38 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: when this was in vogue, in the period that we 39 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: will be discussing today, was a seventeen sixteen and seventeen 40 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: centuries when it kind of peaked, right, Yeah, that's when 41 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: it peaked in Europe. At least back then they didn't 42 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: understand the placebo effect. You only measured things by their 43 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: perceived results. And I believe this, this practice of consuming 44 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: human flesh and blood for medicinal purposes, really peaked in Germany, England, 45 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: Italy and France right towards the end of the Renaissance. 46 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: That's right. And some of the information that we're talking 47 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: about today come from a fascinating book by a guy 48 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: named Dr Richard sug who teaches over at England's University 49 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: of Durham, and he wrote a book called Mummies, Cannibals 50 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: and Vampires. The History of Corpse Medicine from the Renaissance 51 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: to the Victorians. And this stuff was not just for 52 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: the well to do, you know, the the elite. It 53 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: was something that trickled down, sometimes quite literally in the 54 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: form of spurting gushes of blood coming from the necks 55 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: of execution victims in the square, to the lower class 56 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: who believed in this stuff just as much and would 57 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: go to great pains to get access to whatever they could. 58 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: Of course, the upper class had a lot more access 59 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: to the freshest of the fresh, the best of the 60 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: best in terms of their their parts that they were 61 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: using to make some of these remedies and as sug mentions. 62 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: In an interview with the Smithsonian, the question was not 63 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: so much should we eat human flesh, but it was 64 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: more a question of what sort of flesh is best 65 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: to eat? What sort of human flesh is best to eat? 66 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: And at first Egyptian mummies were tremendously popular. Yeah, because they, 67 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, it seems like that would 68 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: be a lot to go through to get yourself get 69 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: your hands on a legit Egyptian mummy. Over in Europe. 70 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: I don't know. There there were quite a few. There 71 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: was a mummy glut for some time. Yeah, that's mummies. 72 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: Um were a big part of this trend. Um. Here's 73 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: here's the thing. They would do things like grind up 74 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: human skulls and then distell them down to alcohol to 75 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: make something that later became popularized by King Charles the 76 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: Second of England in the form of a tincture that 77 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 1: he referred to as the King's Drops, which a gang 78 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: was human skull powdered and dissolved in alcohol, and it 79 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: supposedly cured everything from epilepsy to you know, various seizures, headaches, 80 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: you know, whatever you got, the King's Drops can can 81 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: cure what ails you. And that's that's where things get 82 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: interesting here, because I don't think there's obviously no way to, 83 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: no no scientific data that we have to measure how 84 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: effective this stuff would have been. It was that power 85 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: of belief, it seems like to me, right this this 86 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: is a panacea. Anytime that a medicine is proclaimed to 87 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: be essentially a cure all it may have some sort 88 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: of beneficial effect on certain conditions, but it's almost completely 89 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: unlikely that it would treat all of the conditions listed. 90 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: They also, in addition to the Kings Drops, they used 91 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 1: human fat. Human fat was an external treatment. German doctors 92 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: wanted to soap bandages and human fat or rub fat 93 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: onto the skin as a remedy for doubt. This kind 94 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 1: of stuff may sound sort of gruesome and scary to 95 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,799 Speaker 1: us now, but back then this was seen as something 96 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: that was the well, it feels unfair to say it, 97 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 1: but the bleeding edge of science. You know, these were 98 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: scientists and doctors and priests who were recommending this treatment 99 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: and taking it themselves, Oh totally. And it's like, you know, 100 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: it's really easy to write this office some sort of 101 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,559 Speaker 1: dark ages kind of like blood letting or leeching or whatever. 102 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: But you know, this had the backing of at least 103 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: the some of the greatest minds of the time, one 104 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: of which was a German uh doctor German Swiss doctor 105 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: for the sixteenth century named Paracelsus, And he was all 106 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: about drinking blood and thought that it could, you know, 107 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: help keep you from aging. Some of these ideas that 108 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: we have of vampiresm even right, like that being forever 109 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: young or whatever, or that it could like we said, 110 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: this notion of like cures, like meaning that if you 111 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: have a blood condition or you know, you're a knee 112 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: maker something, that drinking someone else's blood, preferably of a 113 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: young person, possibly a virgin. Uh. And a big thing 114 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: they really liked was people that were killed under violent circumstances, 115 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: because supposedly that made it more potent in some way, right, 116 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: the blood was more vital. And not only not only 117 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: was the blood more vital if someone was killed under 118 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: violent circumstances, but it was more vital if it was 119 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: given to you directly from the executioners who were the 120 00:07:54,600 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: social outcasts thought to have profound magical abilities. Executioners we're seeing, Um, 121 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: there were still social lepers, but they were they were 122 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: seen as great healers too, And we should we should 123 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: mention that this this kind of practice, while it had 124 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: it had a heyday in Western Europe towards the end 125 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: of the Renaissance. This belief in like cures like cannibalism 126 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: is medicine dates way back into antiquity. Uh. In ancient Rome, 127 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: people who suffered from epilepsy drank the blood of slain 128 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: gladiators or even like eight their livers, I believe. I mean, 129 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,439 Speaker 1: you know, that's about as fresh as it gets, but yeah, 130 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: it's true. Ben Um. It was a very popular practice 131 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: that as soon as the event was over, epileptics would 132 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: run down and try to drink the blood directly from 133 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: the body, something they would refer to as the living blood. Um. 134 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: And there was even a Roman doctor named Scribonius Largus 135 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: who tried to justify some of these things through all 136 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: kinds of pseudo scientific suggestions, um and and and and 137 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 1: indicated that if you ate the liver of a stag 138 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: that was killed by a weapon, that was used to 139 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: kill a gladiator, and that also would be imbued with 140 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: the magical powers of the fallen gladiator, the the the 141 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: what's the word the vitality kind of right, and don't worry. 142 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: This wasn't all just running up and trying to immediately 143 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: get fresh blood from a corpse before it coagulated. There 144 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: were also recipes where you would you would cook stuff 145 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: and prepare it, and in mummies, cannibals and vampires you 146 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: can find some depictions of these recipes. So the first 147 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: step was to take blood from quote persons of warm, 148 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: moist temperament, such as those of oblochy red complexion and 149 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: rather plump of build, and then you would let it 150 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: dry or coagulate into a sticky mass. And then you 151 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: would place it on a flat, smooth table of soft 152 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: would cut into thin little slices, let the watery parts 153 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: drip away, then put it on a stove on the 154 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: same table, stir it into a batter. Wait until it's 155 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: absolutely dry, put it on a warm bronze mortar pounded 156 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: through a sieve of finest silk, and when it has 157 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: all been sieved, seal it in a glass jar, renew 158 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: it in the spring of every year. So this was 159 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: also associated with the passage of seasons, you know, sort 160 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:29,199 Speaker 1: of the um sort of the macro version of individual life, 161 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: death and rebirth. I've got a favorite quote from a 162 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: an article on Atlas Obscura about this subject called European 163 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: Corps medicine promised better health through canibals um um. And 164 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: this comes from a tone called the Pharmacopeia medico chemica 165 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: chemica I believe chemica. And this was by a German 166 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: doctor named Johann schroeder Um. And this was written in 167 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 1: the seventeenth century. And this is kind of the end 168 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: all be all. This sort of sums up sort of 169 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: like what the creme de la creme of the specimen 170 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: that you might be after to to get you some 171 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: of these sweet, sweet human meat bits. Quote, take the fresh, 172 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: unspotted cadaver of a redheaded man, because in them the 173 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: blood is thinner and the flesh hence more excellent. Aged 174 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: about twenty four. The body the guy a person years 175 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: old who has been executed and died a violent death. 176 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: Let the corpse lie one day and night in the 177 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: sun and moon, but the weather must be good. Cut 178 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: the flesh in pieces and sprinkle it with mirr and 179 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: just a little aloe. Then soak it in spirits of 180 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: wine for several days, hang it up for six or 181 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: ten hours, soak it again in spirits of wine. Then 182 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: let the pieces dry and dry air in a shady 183 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: spot no less. Thus they will be similar to smoked 184 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: meat and will not stink. Yeah, stink is important, and 185 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: you don't want too much alo like that's just basic 186 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: cannibalism one oh one, right there, you know what I mean, 187 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,839 Speaker 1: nothing ruins and otherwise fantastic cadaver um more than too 188 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: much alloe. You have to be moderate with that. And 189 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: as we said, this was again this was not a 190 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: bad thing. These people who were being consumed, although they 191 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: were almost certainly being consumed without their consent in most cases, 192 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: they were not being punished. Uh. European practitioners of this 193 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: believed that they were acquiring vitality, but they didn't think 194 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: they were, you know, stealing the souls of their enemies 195 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: or something aggressive of that nature. There's a very interesting 196 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: point they bring up in Lapham's Quarterly round Table. A 197 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,079 Speaker 1: Brief History of Medical Cannibalism by Best Love Joy, which 198 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:46,079 Speaker 1: is that while people in Europe were consuming blood, or 199 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 1: or livers, or human flesh, or using human fat as 200 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: a poultice for wounds. They were also tremendously discriminatory against 201 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,839 Speaker 1: a couple of other kinds of cannibalism. One would be 202 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: the alleged practices of Indigenous Americans, which were wildly exaggerated 203 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: spun out into these racist, tall tales of sworn, monstrous 204 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: man eating people living on the other side of the 205 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: Atlantic Ocean. And then the second one was discrimination against 206 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:24,439 Speaker 1: Catholics because because of transubstantiation, right, the belief that the 207 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: way for a wine one consumes a communion does in 208 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: fact become the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. So 209 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: they said, these people are cannibals while they are rubbing 210 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: human body fat on their areas. Yeah, they're on their 211 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:44,599 Speaker 1: boo boos. And this this seems again, seems strange. It 212 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: seems like some double thing. Did you see the quote 213 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: from that anthropologist to kind of just refer to this 214 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: as being very hypocritical and I'm just trying to find 215 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: it out. You may have it in front of you 216 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: right now, and it was a good one. Well, there 217 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 1: there were people who were against this, or at least 218 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: notice the hypocrisy very early on, and there was a 219 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: French writer named Michelle de Montaigne, Sorry, casey, I hope 220 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,439 Speaker 1: we're doing You're proud here, who in fifteen eighty attacked 221 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: the hypocrisy of Europeans who condemned these practices, and he said, 222 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 1: you know, essentially, you cannot condemn people for practicing one 223 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: kind of ritualized or spiritual cannibalism while you are happily 224 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: grinding up mummies and drinking tinctures and skulls and having 225 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: the King's drops, and then other people like in fifteen 226 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: sixty six, even earlier than that, the herbalist Leonhard Fuchus, 227 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: that's a tough one, had attacked this quote glory matter 228 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: of cadavas sold for medicine, wondering who, unless he approves 229 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: of catabolism, would not loathe this remedy. Here's what I 230 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: was talking about. That's all fascinating and completely on point. Um. 231 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: This is interesting though. This cultural and medical anthropologist from 232 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: Vanderbilt named Beth Conklin in the Smithsonian article Um talks 233 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: about the distinction between non Western cannibalism of like indigenous 234 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: tribal that the notion of ritual cannibalism and the kind 235 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: that we're talking about. In the former um, there is 236 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: such a huge relationship between the eater and the eat 237 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: you know, as though you are specifically soaking up their 238 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: spirit in some way or like capturing some spiritual essence, 239 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: communing with your ancestors. Right, And in what we're talking about, 240 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: it is that was gone. That was like totally irrelevant. Uh, 241 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: It's much more about the notion of that like cure 242 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: like cures like mentality of like I'm gonna drink your blood. 243 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: It's gonna fix my blood, you know. It's it's it's 244 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: a lot less spiritual. It's much more pseudo scientific really, 245 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: you know, right right, because it was seeing as technology 246 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: rather than an article of faith. And that is not 247 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: to say that we don't do things today like get 248 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: blood transfusions or liver transfusions that one could equate to 249 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: absorbing someone else's fluids or this rah. You know, it's 250 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: always not the same as just like you know, munching 251 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: it down. Right. Also, since we are in one of 252 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: the spookiest seasons of the year, I do feel it 253 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: is appropriate for us to mention that despite the scientific 254 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: pursuit that was occurring, in Europe, there was also a 255 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: history of using human body parts for magical purposes, like 256 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: a thieves candle or a hand of glory, these candle 257 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: being a candle made out of human fat, right for 258 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: the tallows, I guess yeah, And up until up into 259 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: the eighties, these thieves candles were used to stupefy or 260 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: paralyze a person. I myself could see it working, because 261 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: if someone lit a human fat candle in front of me, 262 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: I would be shocked, at least for a short time. 263 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: I would be very surprised if anyone did that. And 264 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: no I have Oh man, I've been eighting and I 265 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: don't know if now is the time, But do you 266 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 1: want to learn about something related to this but equally strange, 267 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 1: it's a little bit sweeter. Have you ever heard of 268 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: the mallified man? Sounds sounds tasty. It's a human mummy confection. 269 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: So this was a legendary medicinal substance created by steeping 270 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: a willing human corpse in honey. It dates back to 271 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,919 Speaker 1: the hundreds, so even kind of around the same time period, 272 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: a Chinese medical doctor named Lee She's was reporting that 273 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 1: in Arabia and the modern day Middle East, some elderly 274 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: men nearing the end of their lives would mummify themselves 275 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:57,479 Speaker 1: in honey, and this process mellification would start before they died. 276 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 1: So the men were seventy or eighty years old, and 277 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: when they made this decision to become a malified person, 278 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: they took no more food or drink, only bathing and 279 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: eating a little honey until a month after his excreta 280 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 1: are nothing but honey, and then he dies. They put 281 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: the body in a stone coffin likewise full of honey, 282 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: with an inscription giving the year and month of burial. 283 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: After a hundred years, the seals are removed and the 284 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: confection is used to treat wounds and fractures and broken limbs. 285 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: And you only have to do it, kind of like 286 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: the King's drops. You only consume a few drops orally. 287 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: And the doctor says he doesn't know whether or not 288 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: this is a true tale. But for hundreds of years afterwards, 289 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: the same sort of people who are like, you know 290 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 1: what's going to cure my epilepsy, mummy dust, were like, 291 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: we need to find one of these honey corpses. And 292 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 1: now even now people are still debating whether or not 293 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 1: this actually happened. And the thing too, um that I've 294 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: gotten from several sources, just the perspective on this is 295 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: that it was almost treated. It wasn't really magical thinking 296 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: exactly and in this period because it was backed by 297 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: that this Renaissance kind of ideal of like progress and 298 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: like you know, medical um innovation. But it was almost 299 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: like almost kind of like a holistic type thing right 300 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: where it almost was the way you would be. You know, 301 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: there were a lot of these herbs and different kind 302 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: of holistic remedies mixed in. Like for example, even that 303 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: little quote that I read earlier about what kind of 304 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 1: body to prepare and like how to slice it up 305 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: and make you know, human jerky out of it, It 306 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: talked about soaking in an aloe. An aloe is is 307 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: known to have some kind of holistic benefits far as 308 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: like calming the stomach or different things like that, And 309 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: in a lot of these recipes you see it mixed 310 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: with things like mirr and peony and like all of 311 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: these kind of things that you might see in a 312 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: little bit more of a holistic remedy type herbalists kind 313 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: of book, right, So, I don't know, it's interesting. There's 314 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: sort of like a combination there. I wonder if it 315 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 1: was less the human meat and more the you know, 316 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: tummy calming herbs. Right, And there's there's another book we 317 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: should shout out here. Louise Noble, the author of Medicinal 318 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: Cannibalism in Early Modern English Literature and Culture, has also 319 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 1: pursued a similar research to the book we mentioned earlier, Mummies, cannibals, 320 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: and vampires. And what they keep confirming is that while 321 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: there were some opponents, there were very very few opponents, 322 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: far far fewer than you might think. Most people at 323 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 1: this time in Europe were generally on board with this 324 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 1: and did not think it was a did not think 325 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 1: it was an ethical quandary. I didn't think it was immoral. 326 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 1: Well did we? We talked about We've talked about resurrection 327 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: men before, the idea of digging up bodies in order 328 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: to perform autopsy, because that was very in vogue around 329 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: this time too, the science of you know, breaking down 330 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: the human bod and figuring out how what makes it tick? 331 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 1: But that was definitely happening as well to get some 332 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: of these specimens, right. Yeah, absolutely, And I want to 333 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,719 Speaker 1: go on record here saying I think it's time we 334 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: resurrect resurrection men at least the phrase it's just too 335 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: cool to let it die. It should be like a 336 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: superhero crew. Yeah, yeah, I'm surprised it's not already, or 337 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,239 Speaker 1: a wrestling team or something. I don't know, let us 338 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: know what you think. Uh, what kind of group would 339 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 1: be called resurrection men today in twenty eighteen. That is 340 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 1: a good question, Ben, And I'd like to know. Um. 341 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,880 Speaker 1: There were some other, even more messed up places that 342 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,919 Speaker 1: these bodies were acquired. One in particular was from Ireland, 343 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: because the Irish were in Europe pretty severely looked down upon, 344 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 1: and they, you know, the high falutin European aristocracy probably 345 00:21:55,560 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: didn't think much of um importing some Irish cadavers. In particular, 346 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: there was one remedy that I think is fascinating. It 347 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: was a type of moss that would grow on a skull, 348 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: and that was a very popular one as well, and 349 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: it was specifically indigenous to Ireland. Yea, the moss. Their 350 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: skulls were plucked from battle fields, battlefields and mass graves. 351 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: And you know, even of course, the people that are 352 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: going to get the brunt of this are going to 353 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: be the poor that are in unmarked graves or like 354 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: more like mass graves. But I don't think it was 355 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: beneath some of these folks that were trying to make 356 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,919 Speaker 1: a buck up to maybe even do a little digging 357 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: up of marked graves proper cemeteries. And so makes a 358 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 1: great note about this because he explains how the Irish 359 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,919 Speaker 1: were seen as, as you said, Noel, deeply inferior on 360 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: some level. And according to him, according to the author, 361 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: corpse medicines were often derived from bodies alienated in various 362 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: ways from ordinary humanity, distant most of all from you, 363 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: whether you're a merchant, a thief, an apothecary, physician, or 364 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: a patient. And this is this is an incredibly important point, 365 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 1: because we're mothering things. These people thought it would be 366 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: completely uncivil to eat the skull of someone they knew 367 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: from town. You know what I mean, Your your fellow 368 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,880 Speaker 1: neighbor's skull shouldn't be in your king's drops. It had 369 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 1: to be something exotic, something different, something a little bit 370 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: less human in the mind of the person taking this 371 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: sort of treatment. And I guess one of the questions 372 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: people have there's going to be, well, what what happened next? 373 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: How did this fall out of vogue? Yeah, I don't 374 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: know it was. There was evidence of it happening as 375 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: recently as like the eighteen hundred's right, Yes, so it 376 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: didn't just fall right out of vogue. No, maybe people 377 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: just stopped being as open about it. And for the 378 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: fans of the X Files and such in the crowd, 379 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: it evokes this image perhaps of people secretly feeding on 380 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 1: feeding on blood or human flesh to extend their own 381 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: lifespans or treat various medical conditions. And boy, do we 382 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,439 Speaker 1: have a story for you. On a different show, we 383 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: talked about this in an episode on modern vampires. Here 384 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: in the US as we as we record this episode, 385 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: there are two different companies that, for a significant amount 386 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: of money, will transfer the blood or the plasma specifically 387 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,719 Speaker 1: of a young person into the body of an older 388 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: person in the hopes of extending their lifespan and the 389 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: quality of their life. Do you remember that one? Yeah? Man, 390 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: it makes me think of that Radiohead song on Hail 391 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:58,360 Speaker 1: to the Thief. We Suck Young Blood. But um, yeah, 392 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: it's always what I think of It's into ends, and 393 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: you think of it as being this thing that like 394 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: only the elite, you know, mega evil, like the elitist 395 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: of the elite, most evil, megalomaniacal humans whatever, consider doing um. 396 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: But then when you see the way it happened throughout history, 397 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,919 Speaker 1: you know, drinking blood from the neck of the body 398 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: on the chopping block. They literally would pay a couple 399 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 1: of bucks or whatever to the execution and get get 400 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: a little cup of the blood. It is warm and fresh. 401 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 1: You start to realize that, like, no, this is not 402 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: exclusively in the realms of the elite. Yeah, it's not 403 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 1: exclusively confined to the past. In fact, in recent years 404 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: there's been accountabalism crisis in certain African countries where wherein 405 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,199 Speaker 1: people who have people whore albinos who have albinism right 406 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: where the skin is very very light, are being hunted 407 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:58,679 Speaker 1: because their body parts are used in magical rituals. So 408 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: this this continued, but this is a little different because 409 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 1: it's not seen as a science. Again, the folks who 410 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: were doing this during the Renaissance period that we're talking about, 411 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: we we can't emphasize this enough, but we will try. 412 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: They did not think they were doing anything bad. They 413 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 1: did not think they were villains. They thought they were 414 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 1: early adopters or um people who were illuminated to ancient 415 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: medicinal lore. Interesting. You have to wonder, you know, what, 416 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: what was it like back then, especially when so many, 417 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: so many conditions were fatal, were a death sentence. You 418 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 1: can't blame people for looking for hope wherever they can 419 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: find it. Dude. I saw an amazing image of the 420 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: day of some Egyptian dental work, and it was like 421 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: holes were drilled in the center of the teeth and 422 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: they were like, you know, strung together with bits of 423 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: like gold wire or copper or whatever. Really really painful looking. 424 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 1: But I guess a better alternative then. I don't know. 425 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: It seems like you just let the teeth fall out. 426 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: I think I've seen similar photos and it made me 427 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: feel like my mouth hurt just looking at it, you 428 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: know what I mean. I experienced vicarious pain. And we 429 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 1: have to ask, you know, while it's easy for us 430 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: to distance ourselves from this today, what would you do 431 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: if consuming some sort of tincture or potion or wearing 432 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 1: some sort of poultice of human flesh could help treat 433 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: a wound faster or more efficiently than modern medical techniques. 434 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: Would you do it? Would you? Would you want to 435 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: know the provenance of the I guess the human medicine 436 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 1: that you were consuming, or would you rather it be anonymous. 437 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: I don't know, Because people do a lot of stuff 438 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: to stay alive, they really do. They do, they do 439 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: to this day. And I think the placebo effect, largely, 440 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: uh is still in play, you know, and despite doctors 441 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: sort of quickness to prescribe some thing that will cure 442 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: a particular you know, illness. Um. I think a lot 443 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: of times people get more psychologically dependent on stuff, especially 444 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: in the realm of like mental health, you know, the 445 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: idea of antidepressants and anxiety medications. I think it's it's 446 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: easy to discount how powerful the mind is in these situations. 447 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: You just think that a medicine can just flip a 448 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,360 Speaker 1: switch and like make you better. Um. But there's still 449 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,880 Speaker 1: that psychological component that I think is just as important 450 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: as it was when people were you know, eating corpse juice, 451 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 1: corpse dust of corpse paste, absolutely, oh, corpse bills. Ah, 452 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: there's still there's probably something like that's still around. And 453 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: we don't want to end on a down note. We 454 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: hope that you found this as darkly fascinating as we 455 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: both did. But let's let's end on something a little 456 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 1: more conversational and fun and less grim nol. What do 457 00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: you say to some listener mail, I love it? No, 458 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: this is this is a short one and it's someone 459 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: pinging us on something that we dinging, pinging, ping pinging 460 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 1: with a p's given us a little poke like potential 461 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: yeah or poke Ryan M. He wrote in and said, 462 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 1: dear Ben Nolan, Casey, I think it would be monumentous, lee, ridiculous, 463 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: and possibly quite educational to feature an entire episode exclusively 464 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: in Richard Nixon impersonations. I just listened to your episode 465 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: about Richard Nixon and Louis Armstrong and I would like 466 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 1: to challenge you to do the aforementioned Nixon episode, so 467 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: long as it has nothing to do with Nixon. Thanks guys, 468 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: keep it ridiculous is a tall order man, you know. 469 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: I was that was on board with that when we 470 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: throw it out there as kind of a joke. But 471 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: we have got a lot of feedback that people would 472 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: like to hear us doing nick All Nixon episode, but 473 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: I don't think I'd be able to keep character. I 474 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: think we can do. This is my pitch, and let 475 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: me know what you think. Ridiculous historians, I think could 476 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: do a segment, how about that, like ten fifteen minutes. 477 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: I think we could do that. We could be a 478 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: recurring segment. It could be a recurring segment. It could 479 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: even be Okay, this is why we love doing this 480 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: show with each other because now we are actively brainstorming live. 481 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: It could just be different impersonations, that's true. Or it 482 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: could be Nixon's commenting on the news, Nix on the 483 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: Nixon on the News, Nixon's on the New Nixon's on 484 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: the News. Because all of our segments have to have 485 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: a literation, and it was Casey on the case Nixon's 486 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: on the news. We're kind of a one track. We 487 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: gotta work with fact Genie. Where's the workshopping? Well, we 488 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: that's that that we've kind of killed that segment. We 489 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: I think we do we do it more than one. 490 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: I think we maybe did it twice. I think we should. 491 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: I think we should go back to the drawing board 492 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: on that, that whole concept. So the vision board, you mean, 493 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: so what do you have a listener mail? I definitely 494 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: call your interest Shorty. The subject is spam, but it 495 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: is not spam, but it's about spam and it comes 496 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: from Benjamin S. And it says I was listening to 497 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: your spam episode when I heard you say that Russian food, dude, 498 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: is gross. All that you have to do is try 499 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: chaboiac or chaborak. I'm not quite sure it's c h 500 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: e b U r e k I. I've heard it 501 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: a couple of different ways. Um, but he says this 502 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: opinion will disappear. Just look it up if you want 503 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: to make it yourself. I would recommend the YouTube channel 504 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: Life of Boris. Anyway, you guys have a great show 505 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: and I'm always excited for the next episode. Well, thank you, Benjamin, 506 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: and I did look it up and it looks delicious great. 507 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: It's almost like an impanata, almost like in like a 508 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: combination of like exactly, but it's like a hand pie 509 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: meat pie kind of thing. Um, let's see what some 510 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: of the filling options ground or minced meat, but they 511 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: also have onions added in there. It's a national dish 512 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: of the Tatar people. Interesting. Yeah, b for lamb oh. 513 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: I love lamb I would I would go for lamb um. 514 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: But yeah, that does look fantastic and I've never heard 515 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: of that one before, but it is very similar to 516 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: like an impanata. Or almost like a parogui or something, 517 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: or like a Pat's pasty. They ever had a pasty? Yes, yes, 518 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: and has had a Pennsylvania thing, certainly in that part 519 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: of the country, right, Yeah, probably. I mean, look, I'm 520 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: always down for turnover meat pie kind of situation. That's 521 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: just who I am. I've accepted it, I leaned into it. 522 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: Thank you Benjamin, and thank you Ryan for writing to us. 523 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: This concludes our listener mail, but not our show. Tune 524 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: in for our next episode, where we explore the fact 525 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: and fiction behind what may well be history's first serial killer. Oh, 526 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: we should also make an announcement, No, we're since we're 527 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 1: gonna be on the road, yeah with our other show stuff. 528 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: They don't want you to know. Yeah, we are gonna 529 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: You're gonna have one sad, sad week where you only 530 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: get one episode out of us. But it's gonna be 531 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: a very special episode. We don't want to spoil it, 532 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: but uh, you may just bust a gut laughing. Oh yeah, man, 533 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: that's very coy of you. Yeah, because typically, you know, 534 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: we we were more grown inducing show than a laugh 535 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: inducing show. And this episode of My Friends is gonna 536 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: flip that on his head. That paradigm is going to shift. Boy, 537 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: I hope we're not making too too many promises, but 538 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: I feel confident and all I feel confident in. And 539 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: in the meantime, contact your fellow Ridiculous Historians and take 540 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: a guess as to what this episode might be. It's 541 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: gonna be tough to guess. I will personally be surprised 542 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: and impressed if anybody guesses it in advance. But you 543 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: can cooperate with your fellow listeners on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook, 544 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: especially our community page Ridiculous Historians. And if you don't 545 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: want to do any of that stuff, you can write 546 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: us an email at Ridiculous at how stuff works dot com. 547 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: Take a cue from your fellow listeners and we'll read 548 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: those things on the show. Oh lest we forget, thanks 549 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: to superproducer. Guest super producer. He's just a run of 550 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: the mill excellent producer. Oh yeah, and a great guy too, 551 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: great guy, Paul deck End, Ladies and gentlemen. He doesn't 552 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: have a voice, though he is in fact mute um, 553 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: but he is really good at hand gestures and head shakes. 554 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: And Paul Paul is MBC mute by choice exactly. We 555 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: also like to thank Alex Williams, who composed our track, 556 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: and of course we'd like to thank our research associates 557 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: Christopher Hasciotis and Eve's Jeff Coach. And, as we often 558 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: do when we close the show, no, I'd like to 559 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: thank you. This was illuminating, it was something